התמלול המלא של Keep Going: Climbing, Friendship, Grit, and the Adventure of a Lifetime

--> 00:02:25.439 Thank you so much for correcting me. 00:02:25.599 --> 00:02:29.039 Um quite impressive and would love to hear more about that. 00:02:29.199 --> 00:02:33.759 And that's not the you've and there have been other ones as well, is what I is that correct? 00:02:33.919 --> 00:02:39.599 Or is that uh list that you've well there there's been over a hundred people who have climbed the bulger list. 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:47.840 But uh I guess the one I'm most pleased with is the top 200, which is the Bulger is the top hundred. 00:02:48.639 --> 00:02:52.800 Yeah, it was a lot harder, took me a lot longer to do that. 00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:55.680 So there aren't as many of who have finished that list. 00:02:56.479 --> 00:02:56.879 Wow. 00:02:57.360 --> 00:02:59.039 Just so impressive. 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:09.919 And and Faye, we've been talking about something called growth mindset, which is spoken about by Carol Deck, and also grit by Angela Duckworth. 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:29.280 And when I think about these two things, I think about you as somebody who really embodies these really incredible attributes of having uh you know being able to press through, persevere, have grit, go through hard things, and also just having a growth mindset. 00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:35.439 Sometimes people have a fixed mindset where they're pretty stuck and they put a lot of limitations on themselves. 00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:39.439 And just everything I've read and heard about you, you really embody those things. 00:03:39.520 --> 00:03:46.960 So we feel really fortunate to be here with you today and um to learn more about your experiences. 00:03:47.199 --> 00:03:48.719 So thank you for being with us. 00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:54.479 Jim and Eileen, is would you be able to tell us a little bit more about your relationship with Faye? 00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:56.159 Jim, why don't you go first? 00:03:56.319 --> 00:03:58.400 Since Yeah, how do you know each other? 00:03:58.800 --> 00:03:59.439 Yes. 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:02.159 Jim and I knew each other first. 00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:03.199 Yeah. 00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:08.479 Uh just through the climbing community, it's kind of small. 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:15.680 And back in the what, the early 2000s, I learned of Faye through her trip reports in a magazine. 00:04:15.759 --> 00:04:17.439 There's a local magazine. 00:04:17.680 --> 00:04:23.759 And at some point we got on each other's email distribution list, and I think that's the key. 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:32.240 And let's see, it was what 2004, I think, when I emailed you and asked you if you wanted to do a client. 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:33.519 I remember that boy. 00:04:33.839 --> 00:04:35.040 The client was bandit peak. 00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:36.720 Oh, yeah, I remember bandit peak. 00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:40.560 It's not a well-known peak, but it's something I'd been wanting to do. 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:46.959 I didn't think Faye had done it, so I I just tossed it out there and she immediately accepted. 00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:48.879 Well, why wouldn't I? 00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:54.879 I did a lot of solo up to that point. 00:04:55.120 --> 00:04:55.439 Yeah. 00:04:55.759 --> 00:05:06.959 I had trouble finding partners because I'm very small, I'm very weak, I'm not very talented, technically wise, but I have a lot of perseverance and I don't give up. 00:05:07.279 --> 00:05:08.000 That's that great. 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:09.439 It's just powerful. 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:10.160 Yeah. 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:17.439 It was, yeah, it was pretty well known that uh Faye had as much grit as 20 average men. 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:18.160 That's awesome. 00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:19.759 Well, it sure sounds like it, yeah. 00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:21.600 Reading some of those stories, yeah. 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:22.000 Yeah. 00:05:22.399 --> 00:05:23.439 So impressive. 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:27.199 And and for me, I met both of them at the exact same minute. 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:30.079 Um I remember it. 00:05:30.319 --> 00:05:32.720 I remember I remember that meeting well. 00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:38.240 It was on a ski, we were going on a ski trip, and Jim had just uh invited Eileen. 00:05:38.639 --> 00:05:39.680 The strange woman. 00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:44.800 And all I can say is is the moment that Eileen entered the car, I didn't exist. 00:05:47.439 --> 00:05:49.360 They connected immediately. 00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:52.480 I remember that vividly. 00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:57.040 Faye, how many climbs did you have under your belt uh when you all met? 00:05:57.759 --> 00:05:59.839 Oh, geez, I don't know. 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:01.519 What year was that? 00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:02.879 2004. 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:05.120 Well, you met in the four. 00:06:05.279 --> 00:06:06.079 We met in 2006. 00:06:06.879 --> 00:06:08.639 Two years later is when you met Eileen. 00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:12.399 That's hard to say. 00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:21.759 Uh I I'm actually working on my life list, which is not an easy thing because I didn't keep good records on a computer. 00:06:22.160 --> 00:06:23.199 They're all handwritten. 00:06:23.279 --> 00:06:31.920 I have every climb I've ever climbed, but they're all handwritten in notebooks and not easily some of them uh are in hieroglyphics. 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:32.480 Yes. 00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:43.680 But I would guess maybe at that time fift somewhere between 1500 and 2000 P. 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:44.319 Wow. 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:44.879 I don't know. 00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:45.439 Amazing. 00:06:45.839 --> 00:06:47.120 Up to 4,000 now. 00:06:47.279 --> 00:06:47.439 Yeah. 00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:55.439 So how old were you when you met Jim? 00:06:56.079 --> 00:06:57.279 Were you 60 yet? 00:06:57.759 --> 00:06:58.079 Yes. 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:00.639 Did I meet you after my husband died? 00:07:00.959 --> 00:07:02.720 Yes, shortly shortly after. 00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:05.600 Like a year or two

after Kent died. 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:06.480 Yes. 00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:09.120 So that that yeah, I was I was sixty. 00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:10.879 She was in her sixty. 00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:14.000 That's that's when I my climbing career. 00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:18.079 I climbed all my life, but I had two kids. 00:07:18.879 --> 00:07:27.040 And uh um i i my feeling was you know, there there were three things I could do in this life. 00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:32.079 I could be a mother, I could have a career, or I could climb mountains, but I couldn't do all three. 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:32.879 Yeah. 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:34.639 So my career suffered. 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:38.079 But I didn't need to have a career because my husband had a good job. 00:07:38.399 --> 00:07:38.639 Yeah. 00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:43.759 But anyways, then then he passed away in in um when was it? 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:45.279 2002? 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:47.839 2002, somewhere around there. 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:51.040 And then that's when my climbing career took off. 00:07:51.360 --> 00:07:57.120 Because you know it partially it was uh just um it's good therapy. 00:07:57.279 --> 00:07:57.680 Therapy. 00:07:57.920 --> 00:07:58.480 Yeah, yeah. 00:07:58.639 --> 00:07:59.040 Yes. 00:07:59.199 --> 00:08:00.800 But I my whole life was climbing. 00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:03.360 I climbed practically every day. 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:05.120 Oh, that's great. 00:08:05.680 --> 00:08:15.040 So when you you said after your husband died, you jumped in, you really jumped back into climbing and you said that said that was part of your therapy. 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:23.279 Was there was there a kind of a moment in time that you remember where you, you know, that defining moment where you decided, you know what? 00:08:23.439 --> 00:08:25.279 I'm not getting any younger. 00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:27.759 I have this bucket list, I want to do these things. 00:08:27.839 --> 00:08:33.039 I mean, is can you remember that moment where you just decide, okay, I'm gonna start doing this? 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:36.000 I think it just kind of grew organically. 00:08:36.080 --> 00:08:38.480 I I don't think I have had a particular moment. 00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:41.360 I you know, I've been interested in mountains my whole life. 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:41.759 Yeah. 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:45.679 As a kid, uh, you know, I was always climbing to a high point. 00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:46.480 Yeah. 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:49.519 And then it became mountains and then it became lists. 00:08:49.840 --> 00:08:55.360 Uh but I I can't remember a specific moment where it it it took off. 00:08:55.519 --> 00:08:58.559 It you know, it was just kind of always there in the background. 00:08:58.799 --> 00:08:59.120 Yeah. 00:08:59.360 --> 00:08:59.679 Yeah. 00:08:59.919 --> 00:09:01.039 Yeah, multiplying. 00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:09.120 How how does trusting someone with your life on a mountain change the way you work together on the mountain? 00:09:09.279 --> 00:09:13.759 Meaning there has to be a lot of trust in your team, and you guys have done a lot of climbing together. 00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:16.240 Can you guys speak to that part of your climbing? 00:09:16.480 --> 00:09:21.279 Well, I can say that these two are the most trustworthy climbers I've ever climbed with. 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:25.200 It got to a point where I didn't want to climb with anybody else because I didn't trust them. 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:31.120 And what's really interesting is for me, I didn't I really didn't have a relationship with Faye yet. 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:34.960 We had skied together, but we hadn't climbed together because I wasn't a climber at first. 00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:41.200 But I got to know her skiing and I got to know through trip reports her. 00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:45.519 And as much as Faye weighs half what Jim weighs, no, not quite that. 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:46.639 Pretty close. 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:51.759 You're exactly I mean Faye is not a big person, you know. 00:09:51.919 --> 00:10:00.480 And I always from the I mean, when before I really started climbing that much, I trusted Faye and Jim together more than anybody else. 00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:13.279 There's just sort of a down deep trust that you know, some of that's gut, and some of it is watching what people do or listening to them, um listening to conversations through other groups. 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:20.960 But yeah, I trusted Jim to tie to Faye before anybody else, even though she's just a little person. 00:10:21.279 --> 00:10:31.120 I just trusted, they were so good at, you know, neither of them turn around, but they were so good at deciding that they just had the same risk level sort of thing. 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:39.679 And I guess I had the same one too, where they would decide together that we're done and they would come back together. 00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:43.679 You know, they were they were always about climbing, you know, climbing for another day. 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:45.440 We were reasonable, yes. 00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:47.679 A lot of climbers are not reasonable. 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:48.639 Yeah. 00:10:49.279 --> 00:11:00.799 You know, what you know, I hear what I think I hear now and and what I've heard, you know, previously talking with you, Jim and Eileen, is also trust in yourself. 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:06.080 So trust in yourself first, so you trust yourself to a certain level to do the things you want to do. 00:11:06.399 --> 00:11:11.440 How does self-trust first play into then trusting others? 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:14.080 I mean, any thoughts on that? 00:11:14.320 --> 00:11:16.159 Well, I think that's that's important. 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:19.679 I always had a good sense of what I was capable of doing. 00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:23.919 As I said, I'm not a I'm not a great technical climber, but I always knew what I could do. 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:26.480 And I could always

find a way up. 00:11:26.639 --> 00:11:30.000 I would always look for the easiest way, but I could always find a better way. 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:32.000 And a lot of the people, you know, they'd like to go straight up. 00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:33.200 I said, Oh, that's too hard. 00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:35.360 I can we can go around and it's much easier. 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:36.080 Right? 00:11:36.159 --> 00:11:36.320 Yeah. 00:11:36.559 --> 00:11:37.840 It was like wisdom. 00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:41.039 Do you want to answer that too, Jim? 00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:42.240 Do you have something for that? 00:11:42.799 --> 00:11:54.399 I I just what what Faye just said reminded me of something that I think this was the number one lesson I got from Faye over the years is persistence. 00:11:54.559 --> 00:12:03.279 You don't have to be the best climber or the fastest climber or the smartest climber, but you have to be persistent. 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:06.879 And you can't you can't give up too soon. 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:11.120 I mean, you there comes a time when you know, okay, we we gotta pull the plug. 00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:18.480 But it's it's really easy to look at something and say, Well, I don't think we can get up that so the climb's done. 00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:28.720 No, what what Faye taught me was, well, let's look around the corner, let's go left over here, and let's go right over here and see if maybe there's an easier way. 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:32.960 And so often there is, but it's not the obvious way. 00:12:34.799 --> 00:12:41.120 You know, you just keep looking and you keep whittling, and little by little you find yourself on the summit. 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:45.759 Yeah, I've heard people talk about that with their careers as well or lives, right? 00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:56.080 You know, there's some people just have this arc, this straight path, this arc, it seems like, but I think most people, you know, it's the path, the path is variable, right? 00:12:56.240 --> 00:13:00.799 And you get stopped, and instead of turning back, you look for a way around it. 00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:06.159 And yeah, I think that that's funny, Rod, because that was exactly what I was thinking when Jim was talking. 00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:08.639 Is boy, that's that's the way life is too. 00:13:08.799 --> 00:13:12.799 You know, if you want to be successful in life, you just keep you just gotta keep persevering. 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:14.639 There's there's always alternatives. 00:13:14.879 --> 00:13:17.840 Yes, there's always alternatives for sure. 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:22.799 Okay, when thank you for sharing that. 00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:31.039 When things get terrifying or scary on a climb, how does how do you guys pull together? 00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:33.840 How do you problem solve? 00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:36.080 Can you speak to that? 00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:38.639 The first the first is just trust. 00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:49.120 The scarier things got, the

more humor we would interject into the situation. 00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:51.919 Yeah, but it really helps to trust your partner, yeah. 00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:52.799 Yeah. 00:13:53.840 --> 00:14:04.399 And I think I mean we got to the point where we all knew each other, each other's capabilities and each other's strengths and all that, and to just trust that. 00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:04.799 Yeah. 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:09.279 I think in all cases, if one of us thought it was time to turn around, we all turned around. 00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:10.240 Yeah, and agreed. 00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:12.799 And we all uh acted as a collective. 00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:15.440 We were a well-oiled machine working together. 00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:19.759 Yeah, there was there was just Yeah, I don't think we ever go ahead. 00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:24.639 I I can't I was trying to think of whether there was a climb where we disagreed on. 00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:26.240 I was just gonna ask that. 00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:27.039 Yeah, thank you. 00:14:27.519 --> 00:14:28.879 Whether to turn around or not. 00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:36.960 And I I can't think of one where we didn't pretty quickly all agree that it was it was time to turn back. 00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:55.840 Yeah, as soon as one person verbalized it, and I think that was that's one of the things that made it, as me being the rookie climber, made it so comfortable for me to climb with them, is that I just always felt like if if I said I'm uncomfortable, they would either, you know, will a rope work, will this work, will that work? 00:14:56.080 --> 00:15:03.519 But you know, I just I never felt like I was I was that they were gonna haul me along even though I was scared to death and had to go back. 00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:06.000 You know, if I was scared to death, they all turned around. 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:06.720 Wow. 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:08.000 That's great. 00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:09.279 It's so important. 00:15:09.759 --> 00:15:10.159 Yeah. 00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:18.320 I mean, I know both of them will do things way higher than me without me, but when I'm with them, they don't. 00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:22.000 It's um I don't know what you call that. 00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:24.480 That's just good. 00:15:24.879 --> 00:15:25.120 Yeah. 00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:34.320 Well it's yeah, it seems to me, and maybe you can speak to this in terms of you know, aligned value aligned values and shared values. 00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:40.399 Do you feel like that that was a part of your early coming together? 00:15:40.559 --> 00:15:45.279 Was you shared a lot of the same values, not just interests, but same values. 00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:49.919 I'm gonna let you two answer that. 00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:51.120 I I think it was. 00:15:51.279 --> 00:15:53.759 I think we It was kind of intuitive. 00:15:53.840 --> 00:15:55.279 I don't know if we really thought about it. 00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:56.240 Yeah, we didn't. 00:15:56.320 --> 00:16:03.200 It wasn't something we ever talked about, but I think it just that's just how we kind of felt deep down. 00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:07.679 And it clicked good fortune, we all kind of clicked on that level. 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:08.720 That's great. 00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:12.480 Well, I think had we not all clicked at that level, we wouldn't all three clicked. 00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:14.240 Yeah, right. 00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:14.720 That's true. 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:17.120 That makes a lot of sense. 00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:26.080 Of course, how do you handle, you know, when you have to turn back, how do you handle the feelings of disappointment? 00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:27.440 I cry. 00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:28.559 Okay. 00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:29.679 That's good. 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:32.799 I look forward to coming back and doing it again. 00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:33.440 Yeah. 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:34.559 Great. 00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:37.840 That's a that's a growth mindset attitude for sure. 00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:44.080 In fact, it I mean, one of our hardest climbs, one of my most disappointing climbs was crooked thumb. 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:46.960 Took me five tries to do crooked thumb. 00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:55.279 And of course, every time you fail, it's a whole year gone by because you can't go to the pickets more than once a year. 00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:57.679 It's it's over a week trip to get there. 00:16:58.159 --> 00:16:59.679 So it took five times. 00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:06.240 And then finally, uh J uh Eileen and I tried it several times and and didn't make it. 00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:10.960 Uh and then finally Jim came along and the three of us made it. 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:18.799 And that was one of the most satisfying and yet sadly, I I don't know how to describe it. 00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:20.400 I was kind of sad. 00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:23.279 Because I didn't get to come back to the tickets again and try it. 00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:25.920 The chat the challenge was over, yeah. 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:27.279 The challenge was over. 00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:29.200 That kept me going for five years. 00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:29.599 Yeah. 00:17:31.039 --> 00:17:31.680 I get it. 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:32.559 Wow. 00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:33.599 Wow. 00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:37.680 How was that for all of you, uh Jim, Eileen, everyone? 00:17:38.079 --> 00:17:39.279 Yeah, tell us about that climb. 00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:39.920 Tell us about it. 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:40.240 Yeah. 00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:41.759 That was that was a highlight. 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:44.319 And I think you guys have heard a little bit about it before. 00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:53.279 I think what was so neat about it was it was something that that Faye and I kind of that was my first trip that I ever went on without Jim. 00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:58.640 And I asked Faye, I mean, she's this high-end climber, and I asked her, could I go with you? 00:17:58.720 -->

00:17:59.920 Because I always wanted to go to the pickets. 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:01.039 I'd always seen pictures. 00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:06.799 Jim told me that he did not think it was good for our marriage for him to be the first one to take me into the pickets. 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:11.839 And to this day, he's never panned a picket trip, and it's one of my favorite places to go. 00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:14.720 But um, Faye said she would take me. 00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:16.480 Um I never looked at it that way. 00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:19.119 I was just pleased that you were agreed to go with me. 00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:22.240 You need so you need a trip like that. 00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:23.119 You can't do that solo. 00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:23.839 Yeah. 00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:28.240 And so we went in and we did some stuff, and I had so much fun. 00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:31.440 And then Faye and I decided the next year we're like, we can do this by ourselves. 00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:33.920 We'll go in the next year now that we know the peak a little better. 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:38.559 And we ended up and Jim actually stayed home and worked, and he sent us weather reports. 00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:39.599 He was our ground guy. 00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:45.039 And yeah, we then we got to the point where we got into that and we had to turn around, do the weather. 00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:48.960 And then both Faye and I on the way home were like, I think we need Jim. 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:51.200 And so the that took us two trips to Jim. 00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:55.039 And then we we had to make it the two trips with Jim. 00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:58.079 But that's because there were other people along. 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:02.400 Why did it need to be just the three of us if we were gonna make this work? 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:02.880 Yeah. 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:14.720 And that's that's happened for several things that the three of us together, because I think because of what you said, that we we just keep we look around every corner. 00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:18.960 There's no we just kind of keep I don't know how to describe it. 00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:20.240 We work well together. 00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:25.680 Yeah, and we always said we sneak up on peaks, we don't, you know, conquer them, we just sort of sneak up. 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:26.559 I like that. 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:27.519 That's great. 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:31.279 You know, um, but I think I felt the same way. 00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:36.160 When it was over, it was something the three of the three of us ended up, you know, it was just this project. 00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:38.960 You start out with project and then it's over. 00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:47.680 And um, the only joy I got out of that is because Jim went in that area and he climbed in that area. 00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:51.920 Jim looked at this thing called the picket traverse that I've always wanted to do. 00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:55.200 But Jim always said, we can't do the picket traverse, it's too hard. 00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:56.480 We did do that afterwards. 00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:01.680 And then Jim after that, when we came home, I think because we were all sad crooked thumb was over. 00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:03.759 Jim said, I think we can do the picket traverse. 00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:06.319 And then we all three of us got excited again. 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:07.039 Wow. 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:08.160 And then you did that. 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:08.960 Yeah. 00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:10.559 And how was that? 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:15.680 Well, there there were other people on the mat, so it wasn't just the three of us, but it it was a very good trip. 00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:17.119 Yeah, it was hard. 00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:18.960 That was hard was amazing. 00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:23.759 That was at that point I was beginning to feel my age, let's put it that way. 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:25.039 We were 75. 00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:31.839 And uh and so uh I had to have some help in carrying some of my gear. 00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:35.680 So that I uh that might have been my last really big it was. 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:37.279 What year was that? 00:20:37.839 --> 00:20:38.720 Was there another one? 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:40.480 No, I think that was what year? 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:45.440 Uh that was that must have been right around 2018. 00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:46.319 Okay. 00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:48.000 Yeah. 00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:56.400 Yeah, that is that is a uh a a hazard or um what shall I say? 00:20:56.640 --> 00:20:59.200 See, they're younger than I am, so I failed. 00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:01.839 I I was meaning to fail before they were age-wise. 00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:04.400 And personally, I think that's been the saddest thing. 00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:11.519 Not the peaks that we finished, but when we would do something and we would think Faye would have loved this. 00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:17.200 Oh and we've come up with a couple things since then where we were able to do it together. 00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:18.480 Yes, they repeats. 00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:26.799 They coast me along on a few trips, but then I got to the point where I, you know, I think I I think it's time to hang it off. 00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:28.400 Yeah. 00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:30.880 Not not on the outdoors, but just in climbing. 00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:31.680 Sure. 00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:33.839 Just changing it up. 00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:44.720 Yeah, you know, how I mean, so how technical have some of your climbs together, the three of you? 00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:49.519 What what are the most a couple of the most technical climbs that you've done then? 00:21:54.880 --> 00:22:08.640 There's always this difference between, in my opinion, where there's a technical Spot right where you come to a spot and it's one thing and then it's one thing you gotta conquer and that's a technical spot. 00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:12.079

Then there's how the diff the difficulty. 00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:13.839 The difficulty of the climb. 00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:17.920 You know, continued difficulties, but nothing is really that technical. 00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:22.480 And then some yeah, and then there's some that you leave the parking lot. 00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:31.920 I mean, when we did Johannesburg together, that was I mean, pretty much you leave the parking lot, you hike about you know an hour and a half, and then from that point on there was no letting up. 00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:32.319 Right. 00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:33.680 For three days. 00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:34.480 Yeah. 00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:39.119 Nothing was really hard, but it was It was steep and exposed. 00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:40.000 Steep and exposed. 00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:40.640 Three days. 00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:41.039 Yeah. 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:41.759 Yeah. 00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:46.240 So the technical part, that's a that's a tough question in Mountaineering. 00:22:46.480 --> 00:22:53.839 Well, that I would say the most technical one is the one that they they treated me to on my 70th birthday, which is a guide. 00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:54.240 Yeah. 00:22:55.759 --> 00:22:56.240 You're right. 00:22:56.319 --> 00:22:58.000 Uh North North early winter. 00:22:59.200 --> 00:22:59.759 Oh, yeah. 00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:00.799 Tell us about that. 00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:09.440 Even with a guide, there were times when it was like a business. 00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:11.279 It was tricky. 00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:15.039 It it didn't help that it the temperature dropped below freezing as well. 00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:18.720 So we were we were close. 00:23:19.039 --> 00:23:19.839 It was for my birthday. 00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:21.519 My birthday's in September. 00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:26.160 So it was it was getting the end of the season. 00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:30.000 Was that a pretty memorable climb? 00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:31.359 I'm sorry? 00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:32.480 Was that memorable? 00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:34.240 A special climb was on your birthday. 00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:36.079 It sounds like you do those on your birthday. 00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:39.759 Well, partially just because I thought it was so sweet. 00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:41.200 Yeah. 00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:42.400 What a birthday present. 00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:44.720 I mean, how many people get a what a birthday present. 00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:59.680 One thing I remember about that climb is I I bought this great big cupcake at the store before our climb, and it came in one of those kind of clear plastic, crunchy containers, you know, that you'd get leftovers in or something. 00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:01.680 And I had it in my rucksack. 00:24:02.079 --> 00:24:05.519 I think the last pitch of our climb was in a chimney. 00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:11.279 So I had my back pushed against the wall of the chimney, and I could hear that crissy plastic. 00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:14.160 Tasted just fine. 00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:28.720 I don't know what this cupcake's gonna look like, but even the guide, the guides started out, you know, all professional, you know, all distant, you know, business, yeah, just business. 00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:31.039 And then by the end of the climb, he was into it. 00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:34.319 He's telling us stories. 00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:35.440 That's great. 00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:38.160 Oh just a neat experience. 00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:39.599 Yeah, it's a very fun trip. 00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:40.480 Oh, so neat. 00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:41.839 Did you eat the cupcake? 00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:42.559 Oh, yes. 00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:42.960 Yes. 00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:45.279 Even the guy that ate the cupcake. 00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:48.240 Oh, that must have been really special. 00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:51.759 Is it at the top or yeah, yeah, yeah, on the summit? 00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:52.480 On the summit. 00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:52.880 Yes. 00:24:53.119 --> 00:24:53.359 Wow. 00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:57.359 And and Faye, do you celebrate birthdays sometimes climbing? 00:24:57.440 --> 00:25:00.000 It sounds like when somewhere I read, is that true? 00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:02.240 We celebrate a lot of birthdays together. 00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:05.200 Yes, yes, we've celebrated birthdays. 00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:06.240 Yes, my birthday. 00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:13.680 My son is is he's at much low lower level, but his birthday is in November, which is a real challenge. 00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:17.359 But I would take him on a very small peak. 00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:21.920 It i every every year I would take him out and come in November. 00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:23.599 In November. 00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:28.079 That's such a meaningful way to celebrate birthday. 00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:33.599 It helps that Faye's birthday is in September, which is the best month in the mountains. 00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:35.359 So that's pretty special. 00:25:35.839 --> 00:25:37.839 Almost always out on a trip on your birthday. 00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:39.440 Yes, yes, pretty much. 00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:44.799 And we didn't even know when her birthday was until it was our second attempt on Triumph. 00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:46.640 I think it was our second attempt on Triumph. 00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:49.279 So we'd been together on one and we got weathered off. 00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:54.559 And so we came back and we're on the summit, and Faith says, It's my birthday today. 00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:55.920 And we're like, Why didn't you tell us? 00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:01.599 She goes, I didn't want to do the climb, but yeah, that was not the that was not the last time. 00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:04.079 That's really special. 00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:06.880 Can you guys tell us about your scariest moment? 00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:10.799 Do you have one on a climb that you feel comfortable talking about? 00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:12.240 What that

was like for you. 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:13.039 Oh scary. 00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:14.240 Oh yeah. 00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:15.599 I can tell you. 00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:17.119 I thought I was gonna die. 00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:19.839 Is that scary enough for you? 00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:21.119 I mean, I understand. 00:26:21.759 --> 00:26:23.599 I don't know if you're thinking of the same one I'm thinking of. 00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:24.799 I was thinking of that one. 00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:26.559 But it was on Big Four. 00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:27.359 Oh. 00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:28.640 Just the two of them. 00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:29.279 I don't do that. 00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:30.960 Just the two of us were climbing it. 00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:34.720 Now, Big Four is kind of kind of a challenging peak anyway. 00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:41.519 Anyway, we we were going up a uh we had just barely started it and gotten to the serious part. 00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:42.960 Anyway, there's this gully. 00:26:43.119 --> 00:26:47.599 It's a big snow gully, and I was on one side and he was on the other side. 00:26:47.839 --> 00:26:49.279 And I thought I was safe. 00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:52.000 You know, we're we weren't in the gully, in the snow gully. 00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:56.079 Of course, there's lots of uh Seracs and stuff above us. 00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:02.480 But anyway, I'm climbing up all of us and I hear this crash, and I could see this this snow coming down. 00:27:02.559 --> 00:27:04.799 I said, Oh, I'm safe, I'm not in the gully. 00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:07.440 And it was a chunk of ice that came down. 00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:08.079 Oh wow. 00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:14.400 And it it it it was going down the gully and it bounced and it bounced right towards me and hit me in the thigh. 00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:16.319 Oh me backwards. 00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:20.880 We weren't roped, we were on the it wasn't really technical, that technical trait. 00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:22.480 We had cramp on ice. 00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:27.359 And and uh so I went head over heels backwards, sliding backwards. 00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:29.599 I said, I gotta I gotta self-arrest, I gotta self-arrest. 00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:30.720 I knew there were cliffs below me. 00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:33.680 If I don't self-rest self-arrest right away, I'm gonna die. 00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:34.559 Wow. 00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:37.279 And somehow I I ended up in the gully. 00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:40.400 Of course, that's where you go when you start sliding downhill. 00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:42.880 And I did self-arrest. 00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:46.799 And and I was just lying there. 00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:48.799 I can't imagine what Jim was thinking. 00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:50.720 Uh he he was probably petrified. 00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:51.920 He probably thought I was dead. 00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:53.119 I thought I was dead. 00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:56.960 But anyway, I had survived. 00:27:57.200 --> 00:28:01.200 A few a few other pieces of snow came down and I was just hunkering down. 00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:12.480 Anyway, I got up and uh fortunately there were no serious injuries, but it had paralyzed my left leg and I could no longer go uphill. 00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:15.279 So at that point we had to go downhill. 00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:17.519 And it was it was an effort getting out. 00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:22.799 I had no no lasting injuries from that, surprisingly. 00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:25.759 I I recovered in a few days or a week or something. 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:28.960 But it wow it it just I don't know what it did. 00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:31.519 It it just must have paralyzed the muscle in that leg. 00:28:31.839 --> 00:28:33.200 They hit it so hard. 00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:35.359 I'm not even sure how to breathe. 00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:40.480 But anyway, you you can tell them what what uh watching that, what went through your mind. 00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:44.160 It was uh a bizarre experience because we were watching this. 00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:49.440 There was one ice chunk that was about the size of a small car tire. 00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:52.400 That was just rolling down the hill. 00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:55.599 It was going nowhere in in our direction. 00:28:56.160 --> 00:29:01.920 And then what forty feet before it got to Faye, it just angled over towards her. 00:29:02.079 --> 00:29:12.240 I mean, it was just like it had a mind of its own and it just it's just careened off at a 30-degree angle and and nailed her right in the leg. 00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:15.359 And I just I couldn't believe what I was seeing. 00:29:16.079 --> 00:29:22.480 And then when she goes upside down in this steep gully, yeah, it was really, really frightening. 00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:23.680 Wow. 00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:27.519 That is probably one of my greatest regrets. 00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:29.279 Or maybe not. 00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:31.599 I'd never been back to climb big four. 00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:34.160 Okay, never made it up big four. 00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:35.200 Neither has Jim. 00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:38.160 It felt like the mountain just had it in for us. 00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:41.039 That was that was my third try on Big Four. 00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:43.680 And every time it's just it was telling us something. 00:29:43.759 --> 00:29:45.119 Yeah, you're not meant to be here. 00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:45.920 Yeah. 00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:46.640 Yeah. 00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:48.000 Yeah, I feel your pain. 00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:54.559 I had a similar incident on Athabasca with a rock, and it it was one of those rocks that came bouncing down. 00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:56.240 I would go right, it would go right. 00:29:56.319 --> 00:29:58.319 I'd go left, it would go left, you know. 00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:00.400 And and just following you, yeah. 00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:01.279 Oh, totally. 00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:03.119 It was aiming for me, yeah. 00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:03.599 Yeah.

00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:07.279 So the mountain's trying to tell you to go home. 00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:08.880 I wasn't smart enough to listen. 00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:09.759 Oh wow. 00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:10.640 Yeah. 00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:17.440 So so, but you recovered from that, and were you were you a little bit angry about it afterwards? 00:30:17.599 --> 00:30:19.200 How were what were your emotions like after? 00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:22.319 No, actually, I was established that I was alive. 00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:22.960 Yeah. 00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:23.279 Yeah. 00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:23.680 Yeah. 00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:25.680 I really thought I was dead. 00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:26.240 Yeah. 00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:27.200 Unbelievable. 00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:27.680 Yeah. 00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:30.160 And no residual damage. 00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:33.839 No, there was I don't even remember I had a bruise. 00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:34.640 I I can't remember. 00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:40.240 I should have had it, but I was considered younger then. 00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:55.279 You know, Faye, I was reading uh reading look reading up on you a little bit, and there was a story I saw, and I can't I can't remember which peak it was, but there was red where you you launched a sky hook. 00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:57.920 Is that what is that what it's called? 00:30:58.240 --> 00:30:59.279 Something like that. 00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:03.119 I was trying to remember what that was, but maybe I was reading. 00:31:03.519 --> 00:31:06.720 Yes, that's when I was still filming and yeah. 00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:09.920 Forgive me, I have many scenes. 00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:11.599 Was that pharmigan? 00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:12.079 No, no. 00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:17.039 It's prossic peak, and I sold that. 00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:20.720 That's not a peak you normally solo because you really need a peak, right? 00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:21.680 Yeah. 00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:30.240 Self-play um technical climbing, which is makes it much more difficult because you have to climb each pitch twice. 00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:37.519 You have to anchor at the bottom, climb up, anchor at the top, repel down, and get your anchor, and then so you climb each pitch twice. 00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:38.480 Wow. 00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:41.839 But that was uh that was probably before I met Jim. 00:31:42.559 --> 00:31:44.160 Or he would have climbed it with me. 00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:44.720 Yeah. 00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:50.319 I I I I hesitate to use the word desperate. 00:31:50.480 --> 00:31:54.400 I was so keen to climb these peaks, and nobody wanted to climb them with me. 00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:56.880 I I had to climb partners. 00:31:57.279 --> 00:31:58.880 How bold, how bold. 00:31:58.960 --> 00:31:59.200 Wow. 00:31:59.440 --> 00:31:59.920 I had solo. 00:32:00.319 --> 00:32:06.160 I sold, like, for example, the Bulger Peaks, a hundred of them, I sold seven 72 of them. 00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:12.000 I only had partners for the ones that required a partner, which is mostly glacier climbs. 00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:15.920 And glacier climbs, you have to have a partner, otherwise you're you're asking for it. 00:32:16.240 --> 00:32:16.559 Yes. 00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:17.200 Yeah. 00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:22.480 What was that like for you, solo climbing versus climbing with Jim and Eileen? 00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:25.759 I'm sure it's completely Oh, I much prefer climbing with Jim and Eileen. 00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:27.920 It's much more fun, much easier. 00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:29.920 You don't have to work as hard. 00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:39.440 But I must say it was if you're technically inclined, it just the technique, learning the technique, you and you have to be so focused. 00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:40.319 Yeah. 00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:43.279 You have to the only person you can depend on is yourself. 00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:44.960 So you have to make sure you do everything right. 00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:47.680 You have all your anchors in properly, et cetera, et cetera. 00:32:47.839 --> 00:32:50.559 So it's it's it's you know, it's very focusing. 00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:52.319 You don't think of anything else while you're doing it. 00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:58.720 The rest of the world disappears, and all you see is is your technique in the in the peak and getting up and down. 00:32:58.880 --> 00:32:58.960 Yeah. 00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:03.200 Wow, yes. 00:33:03.519 --> 00:33:04.319 Super present. 00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:15.920 I I know, you know, from talking with Jim and Eileen before and just reading, you know, reading a lot of things from your you know, your your websites, but your meticulous planners. 00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:17.519 I I learned that about you. 00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:26.319 But the three of you, how is your planning process when you when you take on a project, you decide you're going to climb it together, you know, in the past? 00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:30.160 How how does that planning go and how does it look with the three of you? 00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:31.359 How does it work? 00:33:33.279 --> 00:33:47.759 I think more than anything, it's it's you know, one of us launches the idea out and throws it on a calendar, and then as we get closer, everybody sort of brings beta. 00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:57.440 So we might discuss, these two especially might discuss which direction, you know, north side, east, west side, you know, which direction. 00:33:57.599 --> 00:34:00.960 I always defer to them on which side we're gonna go in. 00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:04.400 But I think a lot of it happens in route, believe it or not. 00:34:04.640 --> 00:34:12.320 I mean, they bring stuff with them, but a lot happens, you know, they find beta or they dig stuff, or we've done stuff where there's not a lot of beta. 00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:17.599 And um, you know, when we did Crooked Thumb, there was a little bit of beta, but not a lot. 00:34:18.639 --> 00:34:20.239 It hadn't been

climbed that often, really. 00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:22.880 No, and especially when we went out and did Phantom. 00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:28.480 And so there's a lot of in route, I guess is the best way to put it. 00:34:28.639 --> 00:34:31.599 We bring stuff with us, but a lot of it is discussed in route. 00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:33.760 Gives you something to talk about in camp. 00:34:34.239 --> 00:34:35.599 Yeah, that's great. 00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:38.159 And a lot of route finding along the way. 00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:39.360 Yes. 00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:42.239 But we all have we love that. 00:34:44.559 --> 00:34:46.000 I call it explorer, Gene. 00:34:46.159 --> 00:34:50.400 Yes, finding the way up a peak is almost as much fun as getting to the top of a peak. 00:34:50.719 --> 00:34:50.800 Yeah. 00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:53.199 For the three of us, we totally feel that way. 00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:56.079 So it's not having a lot of information. 00:34:56.400 --> 00:35:03.199 We want to be in the right spot, but not having a lot of how you gotta climb it is okay, I guess. 00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:05.920 A metaphor for life, yeah, for sure. 00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:06.639 Yeah. 00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:12.480 There's there's a great satisfaction in coming to a you know, like a head wall that you cannot climb. 00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:19.280 You look around the corner and there's this ledge that just takes you around the head wall and on up the mountain. 00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:25.119 And it's just it's like that that is such a good feeling that you took the time to find that. 00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:32.960 We like Jim said or face it at some point, we climbed a lot of things because we gave ourselves time. 00:35:33.599 --> 00:35:35.360 And I think that is a nice metaphor for not. 00:35:35.679 --> 00:35:40.960 I mean, we never had it scheduled so tight that we didn't have time to geek be lost. 00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:43.039 Yeah. 00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:48.159 We always gave ourselves enough time to be lost and try and figure out where the heck we were going next. 00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:49.440 There's a kitty for you. 00:35:49.840 --> 00:35:51.679 That that's an that's another thing, though. 00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:55.440 There are some people who I will mention no names. 00:35:56.480 --> 00:36:00.480 Who will go into an area and want to climb every peak in sight before they leave. 00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:02.000 We weren't that way. 00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:02.400 Yeah. 00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:07.119 We want to focus on one peak and enjoy that peak and get it, you know, and really experience it. 00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:10.320 And then if we need to, we'll come back and get the rest of the peaks. 00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:12.000 And we loved coming back. 00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:15.360 Oh yeah, coming back to it. 00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:18.719 It was like uh, you know, we're gonna go back to an old friend. 00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:26.719 Yeah, we get there's five more peaks, and we get

to make five more trips into this beautiful area before we're we're done. 00:36:27.039 --> 00:36:29.440 Except for Book Beck and Buck Indian Mish. 00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:35.519 Yeah, that was one that we had to climb both of those because we never wanted to climb back. 00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:36.320 Oh, yeah. 00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:37.519 Well, there are some. 00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:39.280 So that's not you. 00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:44.079 You gotta if there's a peak right next to it, you gotta get it there, or you you know you'll never be back. 00:36:44.239 --> 00:36:48.320 I mean, I mean, we chose to sleep in the cold so that we didn't have to come back. 00:36:48.559 --> 00:36:51.039 Yes, yeah, we just had a bivwhack in the cold. 00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:54.559 It was so bad, and we're so cold. 00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:58.320 But you know, that was our choice, so we never had to come back to that area. 00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:00.079 Yeah, I'd be glad you did. 00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:02.079 Yes. 00:37:02.719 --> 00:37:05.599 Gonna finish this because I'm never coming back to this one. 00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:07.679 It's like really embracing. 00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:21.440 So when you you guys think about peak performance or just performing at your best, or however you want to frame it, what do you think mountaineering helps enhance or helps induce that? 00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:23.440 Or what are your thoughts about that? 00:37:23.599 --> 00:37:28.159 What have you learned that helps you really with performance when you're climbing? 00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:36.000 I mean performance or like performance, like when you're performing kind of at your um physically? 00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:37.599 Yes, and mentally. 00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:38.800 I guess it's both, right? 00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:42.639 Because it would it would take mental skills and physical skills. 00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:49.679 So when you think about kind of performing at your best, what what do you feel like mountaineering teaches you? 00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:51.519 I mean, there's so many opportunities. 00:37:51.760 --> 00:37:58.320 Oh, I mean I think the number one thing that it taught me was just like Jim said earlier. 00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:06.800 I mean, we started running around with this this concept of you gotta touch the rock, you know, don't turn around in life until the you know go ahead. 00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:10.480 Yeah, that that was kind of our uh the mantra for all three of us. 00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:14.239 It you know, you're coming up on a mountain and it looks terrifying. 00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:17.760 You know, because of foreshortening. 00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:20.800 They're always very scary as you approach them. 00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:26.239 But our mantra is you can't make a decision until you touch the mountain. 00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:34.320 You have to go up and touch the rock and really see, you know, what you're working with before you Oh, I love that. 00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:44.639 Well, one of my one of my mantras, which it uh it which applies to life in general from climbing mountains, is there is always a false summit. 00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:45.840 Yes. 00:38:46.639 --> 00:38:47.039 Always. 00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:51.519 Always you just have to be prepared for it. 00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:52.000 Yeah. 00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:53.840 Yes. 00:38:57.360 --> 00:38:58.320 Yes, maybe more than one. 00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:00.320 Sometimes there's multiple. 00:39:03.280 --> 00:39:04.880 Because I started late in life. 00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:05.840 I started climbing. 00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:10.639 I mean, Faye Faye did a lot of her climbing late in life, but I physically started late. 00:39:10.719 --> 00:39:18.159 I'd hiked, but I had never climbed um until I was 45, I think, or 42, something like that, when I climbed for the first time. 00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:28.000 Um is that it you know, there's you're you're capable of so much more than you give yourself credit for. 00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:36.159 And the mountains truly teach you that because you know, there's there's times you have to get back to camp. 00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:42.239 There's times, I mean, when Faye was hit by the snow thing and her leg's numb, you gotta get out. 00:39:42.559 --> 00:39:48.800 You know, there's just and you're capable of so much, you're ready to quit, but you can take one more step. 00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:54.320 And I think that was a big thing that that I've taken towards regular life. 00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:58.800 It's just that you you're capable of a lot more than you think you are, both mentally and physically. 00:39:59.039 --> 00:39:59.599 Yes. 00:39:59.920 --> 00:40:04.800 I you know, this happened, this happened when we were talking with you, Jim and Faye, last time. 00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:06.639 I'm so flippant inspired right now. 00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:07.599 I'm so motivated. 00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:09.679 It's like, I'm like, can't wait for this. 00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:11.280 I just want to go climb stuff, you know. 00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:38.320 And that's I mean, seriously, I just love your attitudes and your, you know, how you look at life and how you just look at I, you know that and I and Faye, I realize physically, you know, you that there's challenges now, but how you've really overcome you know, up to this point, the the idea that I mean seriously, I was sort of looking at, well, I'm entering the third season of my life. 00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:40.880 I should probably tone it down a little bit. 00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:42.639 And then I talk with people like you. 00:40:42.719 --> 00:40:44.880 I'm like, heck no, I'm gonna keep going. 00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:56.480 I mean, I mean, that's so it's so great to to just speak to people and hear from people who are just looking at challenges like it's one more thing to do. 00:40:56.800 --> 00:41:01.280 You have to change your perception and change your uh you can just ratchet it

down. 00:41:01.519 --> 00:41:11.119 Like I I can't climb the big peaks anymore, but now I get the same satisfaction in climbing dinky peaks or even just any close contour anyway, anywhere. 00:41:11.599 --> 00:41:13.199 I just want to get to a high point. 00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:17.440 I mean I'm kind of programmed to go to a high point, even at this point in my life. 00:41:17.679 --> 00:41:18.239 Amen. 00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:18.800 Amen. 00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:20.000 That's great. 00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:20.880 Wow. 00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:23.519 Oh that is so great. 00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:25.440 And you're um, I agree. 00:41:25.599 --> 00:41:28.719 With everything Rod said, so inspiring. 00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:31.840 And do you guys still climb together or hike? 00:41:32.079 --> 00:41:38.960 What we do is we try and do a a Faye does a lot of her stuff in trailers now, in a trailer now. 00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:39.360 Yeah. 00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:45.920 I don't know how many lot more years I'm sleeping on the ground, but I know Faye's chosen, she's done. 00:41:46.159 --> 00:41:50.159 Um we try and do once a year, we try and do a trailer trip and go. 00:41:50.239 --> 00:41:51.840 So we've been to Cooley. 00:41:51.920 --> 00:41:52.000 Yeah. 00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:54.639 We do a lot of hiking and hiking hiking and scrambling. 00:41:54.880 --> 00:41:56.880 That's that's the way I still get outdoors. 00:41:56.960 --> 00:41:59.119 I can't carry a heavy pack anymore. 00:41:59.280 --> 00:41:59.599 Yeah. 00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:05.840 My main goal is I I I've been to every state park in the state, in Camp State Park. 00:42:06.079 --> 00:42:12.800 And so uh and state parks, there I probably know state parks better than anybody in the state. 00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:16.159 Get that book written. 00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:17.039 Get that book written. 00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:19.440 Yes, staying in a state park. 00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:22.400 And you know, I went to have the comfort of the trailer. 00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:27.599 Uh I don't have to carry a pack, I can just go out on a day hike, but I but I still get out. 00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:28.559 Any outdoors? 00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:31.679 I still I still find uh occasionally a new peak. 00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:36.400 I mean, uh a true peak, the definition being that it has 400 feet of prominence. 00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:41.119 And I still occasionally will find an odd one here and there that I can still get up. 00:42:41.679 --> 00:42:42.159 Yeah. 00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:47.760 Well, and it is funny because the three of us kind of always, like I said, we like getting lost. 00:42:47.840 --> 00:42:52.800 You know, we we tend to, I don't know, go someplace that we're probably not supposed to be. 00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:58.800 Even like the first trailer trip we did, they wanted to go out and explore this little area, and we're like, okay. 00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:14.960 And so pretty soon we're sitting having a snack, and one of

them, I don't know which one of us said, Wow, it looks like if we go across, we could climb that chute and we could go over here and we could come across this way because we we all like loops, we don't like one-way directions, and we get ourselves in trouble all the time. 00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:17.199 We can't help ourselves, so it's great. 00:43:18.159 --> 00:43:20.079 Even at this point, we're still doing that. 00:43:20.159 --> 00:43:24.400 I mean, that was two years ago that we got in the cooley where we were doing that. 00:43:24.480 --> 00:43:26.480 And so where where were you at? 00:43:26.639 --> 00:43:29.280 You say cooley, like Grand Coulee, or where at? 00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:30.880 Grand Coulee. 00:43:31.039 --> 00:43:31.920 Okay, yeah. 00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:33.440 Which which one we're at? 00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:34.159 Steamboat Rock? 00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:35.039 Steamboat Rock. 00:43:35.360 --> 00:43:36.559 Steamboat, yeah. 00:43:36.800 --> 00:43:39.199 I was just gonna ask you about Steamboat Rock. 00:43:39.760 --> 00:43:44.000 I say at the state parks in the off season because there aren't as many people there. 00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:44.400 Yeah. 00:43:44.559 --> 00:43:48.320 And so because I'm a senior, I get special discount rates. 00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:49.360 Yeah. 00:43:50.559 --> 00:43:52.239 Very cheap to have hookups there. 00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:55.360 So that's the reason the state parks. 00:43:55.519 --> 00:43:58.559 I don't have anything against well, I never stayed in an RV park. 00:43:58.639 --> 00:43:59.840 I I I can't stand it. 00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:06.639 But I will occasionally stay in a forest service park, but you know, there's no hookup, so that's that's a little more roughing it. 00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:18.239 If you haven't done it yet and you go back there, if you do the you can go, do you know where the caves are over on the just down the highway, the Banks Lake, their lava tubes? 00:44:18.559 --> 00:44:19.679 Lenore Caves? 00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:20.559 What's that? 00:44:20.880 --> 00:44:22.320 The Lenore Caves? 00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:25.760 Yeah, the Lenore Caves, yeah, Lake Lenore Caves, yeah. 00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:41.920 And then you if you you go up and you go over the top of the coolie, the edge of the rock, there's a there's a trail that takes you back into this hidden coolie back there, and there's like there's great hiking, and there's uh petroglyphs back there and the whole thing, so it's pretty cool. 00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:42.320 Yeah. 00:44:42.639 --> 00:44:44.320 Well, that's from Sunbanks. 00:44:44.960 --> 00:44:45.840 What's that? 00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:47.599 That would be Sun Banks. 00:44:47.679 --> 00:44:49.840 I mean, uh Dry Lakes, Sun Banks. 00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:50.480 I'm not sure. 00:44:50.559 --> 00:44:51.840 Yeah, the dry lakes area too. 00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:52.480 Yeah. 00:44:52.719 --> 00:44:53.199 Whatever it is. 00:44:53.599 --> 00:44:54.400 Dry falls, dry falls. 00:44:55.679 --> 00:44:55.920 Yeah. 00:44:57.360 --> 00:44:58.880 So much to do, yeah. 00:44:59.280 --> 00:44:59.599 Yes. 00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:01.519 Um in fact, I'd like to go back there. 00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:01.760 Yeah. 00:45:02.239 --> 00:45:02.400 Yeah. 00:45:03.280 --> 00:45:04.400 No, that could be this year's trip. 00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:04.559 Yeah. 00:45:05.119 --> 00:45:05.679 That's great. 00:45:05.840 --> 00:45:06.400 That's a good one. 00:45:06.880 --> 00:45:07.440 That's great. 00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:13.039 What is one thing that you wished everyone knew about the outdoors could do for them? 00:45:13.280 --> 00:45:18.239 Like something you would like to share with listeners about the power of the outdoors. 00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:20.159 What's something you would say? 00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:21.360 All of you. 00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:25.920 That's a question. 00:45:26.239 --> 00:45:27.599 Kind of an open-ended question. 00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:28.559 Yes. 00:45:29.199 --> 00:45:30.320 Very open. 00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:34.000 Just that if if you there's a lot of error. 00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:34.480 Yes. 00:45:34.639 --> 00:45:36.960 There's a lot of people that don't think they can do it. 00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:42.239 You know, there's a lot of people that don't think I'm I'm not fit enough, I'm not strong enough, I'm not. 00:45:42.320 --> 00:45:46.559 And the other thing is that it seems like, well, particularly I'm sensitive to women. 00:45:46.639 --> 00:45:50.000 I I always try to uh encourage women to get out and do things. 00:45:50.079 --> 00:45:52.960 And also on their own without a boyfriend or whatever. 00:45:54.639 --> 00:46:00.159 Nothing against boyfriends, but some of them are they're petrified of of the outdoors. 00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:03.840 They say, oh, there's snakes, there's bears, there's cougars. 00:46:04.159 --> 00:46:06.239 I see, those aren't the things you have to worry about. 00:46:12.719 --> 00:46:14.800 Not to not to warn them too much about that. 00:46:15.039 --> 00:46:21.280 But I I try to encourage, I would encourage them to get out that you know they have some some unfounded fears. 00:46:22.159 --> 00:46:24.800 Yeah, everybody's scared of of what's out there. 00:46:25.599 --> 00:46:26.000 Yes. 00:46:26.239 --> 00:46:27.920 Or they think they can't do it. 00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:29.119 Yeah. 00:46:29.199 --> 00:46:32.800 We're always shocked at the people that say, aren't you scared of of mountain lions? 00:46:33.039 --> 00:46:33.440 Or bears. 00:46:35.119 --> 00:46:36.400 I've been climbing for what? 00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:38.239 It's going on 60 years now. 00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:40.880 I've never had a bad bear encounter. 00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:41.599 Or a cougar. 00:46:41.679 --> 00:46:42.800 I've never even seen a cougar. 00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:43.679 None of us have. 00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:45.760 I would love to see a lot of things. 00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:50.079 I've seen plenty of snakes, but the

snakes never bother me. 00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:51.519 They they they just slither away. 00:46:51.599 --> 00:46:51.840 Yeah. 00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:56.239 So I you know, I I it it it's they're just unfounded fears. 00:46:56.639 --> 00:46:57.280 Hmm. 00:46:57.679 --> 00:46:58.079 Yes. 00:46:58.239 --> 00:47:00.000 You know, Jim, what about you? 00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:11.519 Uh you know, I would say that this time of year, you know, people tend to get really depressed, you know, that there's not a lot of sun, there's a lot of rain here. 00:47:11.760 --> 00:47:12.079 Yes. 00:47:12.400 --> 00:47:13.280 A lot of cloudy days. 00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:22.400 Well, you just just go up in the hills, go up to the pass, or go up somewhere and get in the snow. 00:47:22.639 --> 00:47:29.840 And even on a cloudy day, there's so much light that it's just uh, you know, it's invigorating and therapeutic. 00:47:30.079 --> 00:47:32.000 And you get out in the cold. 00:47:32.079 --> 00:47:35.280 Yeah, it's cold when you step out of the car, but you warm up pretty quickly. 00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:46.320 And just I think it makes it turns a dreary, long, dreary winter into this really fun winter that just goes by so fast you're not ready for it to end. 00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:56.239 Oh take up snowshoeing, cross-country skiing, downhill skiing, anything to get out in the doors, outdoors in the winter time. 00:47:56.800 --> 00:47:57.199 Yes. 00:47:57.440 --> 00:48:00.719 And I thought he was gonna say you got to get better rain gear. 00:48:03.840 --> 00:48:07.440 Anybody that starts doing things at the gym goes and buys better rain gear. 00:48:07.519 --> 00:48:07.679 Yes. 00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:11.840 Anybody that lives in the Pacific Northwest, you should just have rain gear. 00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:14.480 And then life is possible. 00:48:14.800 --> 00:48:15.119 Yeah. 00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:15.440 Yeah. 00:48:15.679 --> 00:48:16.000 That's right. 00:48:16.159 --> 00:48:18.079 Yes, well, there there is that that to be said. 00:48:18.159 --> 00:48:21.039 And I say, you know, I always feel so much better. 00:48:21.199 --> 00:48:25.199 If I just go out for a walk somewhere, I mean it doesn't have to be that serious. 00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:27.760 Just get out, just get it in the outdoors. 00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:28.559 Yes. 00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:34.239 That a lot of people think that they have to do something serious. 00:48:34.400 --> 00:48:36.159 And it doesn't have to be serious. 00:48:36.239 --> 00:48:39.039 It can be, you know, a two-mile hike. 00:48:39.679 --> 00:48:47.360 It's just you know, it has something to offer whether you're doing a two-mile walk to the lake or you're, you know, climbing a mountain. 00:48:47.599 --> 00:48:49.440 The outdoors has everything to offer. 00:48:49.760 --> 00:48:50.239 Yes. 00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:53.199 It's like force bathing, just getting outside. 00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:54.159 It's awesome. 00:48:54.320 --> 00:48:55.760 Rob, were you guys

say something? 00:48:56.719 --> 00:49:07.920 You know, it seems to me that all of you epitomize the idea of embracing discomfort in order to get to the next level. 00:49:08.239 --> 00:49:10.880 You know, and I, you know, Carrie and I've talked about this a lot, right? 00:49:11.039 --> 00:49:16.719 Embracing the suck, you know, you know, like you've learned to enjoy suffering to a certain extent. 00:49:16.960 --> 00:49:19.519 So maybe you can talk a little bit about that. 00:49:20.079 --> 00:49:22.559 I I have a different perspective. 00:49:22.880 --> 00:49:24.639 Okay, I want to hear this. 00:49:25.360 --> 00:49:28.800 In order to be a mountain climber, you have to have a bad memory. 00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:32.960 So true of the trimminess trip. 00:49:33.039 --> 00:49:34.400 Otherwise, you wouldn't go out again. 00:49:34.719 --> 00:49:35.280 So true. 00:49:35.519 --> 00:49:36.480 So true. 00:49:37.039 --> 00:49:40.480 See, but I also interested to hear what you have to say. 00:49:40.639 --> 00:49:47.440 Because on the flip of that, the trips we talk about the most are the trips that had suck in them. 00:49:47.519 --> 00:49:47.760 Yeah. 00:49:48.239 --> 00:49:48.880 Yeah. 00:49:49.519 --> 00:50:01.360 So I mean, those are the ones that always come to the I mean, Carrie, we've climbed several things, you know, we've hiked things and climbed several things, but you'll never forget the sucky goalie gully that we had to do. 00:50:01.599 --> 00:50:02.719 No, I won't. 00:50:02.960 --> 00:50:03.360 Right? 00:50:03.599 --> 00:50:04.000 That's right. 00:50:04.400 --> 00:50:09.519 You probably tell everybody when they're talking about constant, you're like, oh my god, this rock wall goalie. 00:50:10.239 --> 00:50:12.480 And that's she does it with a smile though. 00:50:12.719 --> 00:50:16.000 Yeah, it's the story music to tell. 00:50:16.159 --> 00:50:16.320 Yeah. 00:50:19.039 --> 00:50:19.280 Right. 00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:21.760 You know, and those aren't the ones that stick with you. 00:50:21.920 --> 00:50:22.880 So what are you gonna say? 00:50:23.519 --> 00:50:23.920 Yes. 00:50:24.639 --> 00:50:35.199 Yeah, I I I concur that it's sometimes the the most miserable occasions in the mountains are are the ones that you just remember so fondly. 00:50:35.760 --> 00:50:36.800 Yes, but yeah. 00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:46.719 Again, I think time yeah, time time soothes over the oh yeah, and don't remember that it really sucked. 00:50:48.239 --> 00:50:49.039 That's right. 00:50:50.079 --> 00:50:56.639 One of my best friends, the guy that got me into mountaineering a long time ago, on our very first, our very first climb was with scouts. 00:50:56.880 --> 00:50:59.280 You know, we took a bunch of scouts on Mount Adams. 00:50:59.360 --> 00:51:03.599 And at the trailhead when we got started, he said, okay, everybody, let's get together for a photo. 00:51:03.760 --> 00:51:07.599 And he says, We call this When You Still Liked Troy. 00:51:07.840 --> 00:51:13.440 And then everybody's happy and ready to go. 00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:32.079 You know, so so what so then what has all of this, I think, from a from the perspective of, you know, Carrie and I are constantly trying to figure out how do we help help people, you know, you know, help themselves in growing, right? 00:51:32.239 --> 00:51:44.800 You know, you know, find, you know, create a vision for themselves, and from that vision, start to create a plan and take action toward, you know, improving their performance, improving their life, whatever it is. 00:51:45.119 --> 00:51:56.239 And so how do you see climbing, mountaineering, alpinism as a path or a way for achieving those things, right, in life? 00:51:56.400 --> 00:52:05.519 I call, you know, mountaineering is a metaphor for life, but from in that perspective, how has it helped you or how have you seen it help others? 00:52:10.239 --> 00:52:12.159 Well, it's been the focus of my whole life. 00:52:12.320 --> 00:52:12.880 I don't know. 00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:14.480 It's great. 00:52:15.039 --> 00:52:27.199 It it definitely can can help you gain confidence because you you will discover that you're capable of more than you you thought you were and and capable withstanding more suffering than you thought you could. 00:52:27.840 --> 00:52:30.079 You know, just just on down the line. 00:52:30.159 --> 00:52:36.559 So Yeah, I can't imagine my life without having been to the mountains or just in the outdoors uh now. 00:52:36.880 --> 00:52:42.079 And you know, I look at people who never get out of the city and I actually I feel sorry for them. 00:52:43.119 --> 00:52:43.440 Yeah. 00:52:47.039 --> 00:52:47.440 Go ahead. 00:52:47.679 --> 00:52:55.280 No, I I was just gonna say, so I'm a great advocate of of preserving these these outdoor areas where people can get and also urban areas. 00:52:55.599 --> 00:52:55.920 Yeah. 00:52:56.639 --> 00:53:04.719 I'm becoming more and more interested in those as I can't get in, I can't get as far into the mountains as I would like. 00:53:05.199 --> 00:53:06.079 So uh yeah. 00:53:06.320 --> 00:53:13.760 Well well, and and I think for me it's there's different times that I've I've thought about if I'd never met Jim. 00:53:14.079 --> 00:53:22.159 You know, besides our our life, you know, that that expansion and what how would that have impacted me as a human being? 00:53:22.559 --> 00:53:41.679 And and I I think I learned to really I don't know, it's a weird way to say it, but appreciate and be calmer in daily life because you know, the these other things are so hard. 00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:43.679 I mean they are, they're physically hard. 00:53:43.840 --> 00:53:47.519 I mean, there's no one's gonna tell you that this is not physically hard sport. 00:53:48.639 --> 00:53:49.599 You can also die, don't you? 00:53:49.840 --> 00:53:52.320 You could die doing that's right. 00:53:53.280 --> 00:53:54.559 It is a suck fest. 00:53:54.639 --> 00:53:58.480 I mean, it does it's definitely not

pleasant or anything like that. 00:53:58.639 --> 00:54:03.760 But I think you start to realize that this is gonna kill you, but this is not. 00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:05.280 Does that make sense? 00:54:05.920 --> 00:54:06.559 Perspective. 00:54:07.280 --> 00:54:20.800 The perspective on the whole thing definitely changes because of this, you know, yeah, that was hard, but that was not as hard as when we did, you know, you know, yeah, work was difficult today, but it could have been a whole lot work, you know, that whole thing. 00:54:21.039 --> 00:54:28.719 Yeah, if you you know, if you've been through some like 22-hour climbing trips where you're on the move the whole time. 00:54:28.880 --> 00:54:33.840 You know, having to work two extra hours at the office doesn't seem like a big deal. 00:54:34.079 --> 00:54:43.599 You know, you don't feel like you're being abused by you end up in a bad hotel because you know, you something happened, your car broke down, and you're in a crappy hotel. 00:54:43.679 --> 00:54:45.760 You're like, well, this is better than no hotel. 00:54:45.920 --> 00:54:47.280 You know, I mean, yes. 00:54:47.760 --> 00:54:56.000 So yeah, I think it just changes the perspective for me, because I came to it again late in line, that I think it changes your perspective. 00:54:56.239 --> 00:54:56.639 Yeah. 00:54:56.880 --> 00:54:57.519 Yeah. 00:54:57.760 --> 00:54:58.159 Yeah. 00:54:58.400 --> 00:55:02.880 And confidence, as you as you were saying, feeling more increased confidence. 00:55:03.039 --> 00:55:05.519 And does the suffering buy you know connect to you? 00:55:05.679 --> 00:55:10.159 Do you feel like can you say a little bit about how it connects? 00:55:10.239 --> 00:55:11.519 I mean, relationally. 00:55:11.920 --> 00:55:12.559 Oh, yeah. 00:55:13.679 --> 00:55:21.519 Yeah, and I mean, I think that's why Jim said that he because of relational relationships, he was not gonna take me into the pickets. 00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:29.360 Right because he he just he was scared that that would be too much for a relationship, and I think he was right. 00:55:29.599 --> 00:55:30.159 How perception? 00:55:30.559 --> 00:55:34.480 I mean, it is an incredibly difficult place to go, but incredibly beautiful. 00:55:34.559 --> 00:55:38.880 I mean, it's my favorite area we went went all the time when we were climbing. 00:55:39.119 --> 00:55:46.719 And um so there's definitely a relationship issue in there. 00:55:46.960 --> 00:55:50.559 Yeah, from from my perspective, I knew she was capable. 00:55:50.719 --> 00:55:57.440 Yeah, but I knew it would be very difficult and there would be a lot of unpleasantries, and I didn't want her to blame me. 00:55:57.840 --> 00:56:00.079 Okay, you know, she could blame me. 00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:02.320 Where did you get me into? 00:56:03.440 --> 00:56:10.559 If I make her plan the trip, I'll go along, and then anything that bad that happens, she has to blame herself. 00:56:12.159 --> 00:56:21.199 And that that's yeah, so

that's that's a that's a big way of how it affects relationships, is is being dragged in versus going going willing to, you know. 00:56:21.920 --> 00:56:24.239 Becoming responsible for your own decisions. 00:56:24.559 --> 00:56:28.239 Yeah, that that is a common error that many couples make. 00:56:28.559 --> 00:56:33.280 The guy is really good at it and he drags his girlfriend along and then she hates it. 00:56:33.519 --> 00:56:34.320 And hates him. 00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:36.639 Yeah. 00:56:37.599 --> 00:56:38.079 Right. 00:56:38.320 --> 00:56:39.519 Yeah, sure. 00:56:39.840 --> 00:56:41.119 That makes a lot of sense. 00:56:41.280 --> 00:56:51.679 Um, and then do you feel like those memories, you know, going through something really hard connects you too through telling the story, revisiting, or does that make sense? 00:56:51.920 --> 00:56:55.360 Oh yeah, going through something hard, surviving it together. 00:56:55.920 --> 00:57:10.079 We still talk about just we'd laugh about some of the worst times we've had out in the mountains, you know, like the snowstorm at ice lakes, you know, where it broke our tents, ripped fabric, and you know, none of us slept a wink that night. 00:57:10.400 --> 00:57:15.760 It was just an awful night, and we would we wouldn't give that up for the world. 00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:16.320 Right. 00:57:16.880 --> 00:57:21.280 And Jim made the rounds of the tents to make sure, make sure everybody was okay. 00:57:21.360 --> 00:57:25.840 There were there were a number of us on that trip, all camped at a different spot. 00:57:26.639 --> 00:57:27.280 Yeah. 00:57:27.760 --> 00:57:28.239 Wow. 00:57:28.400 --> 00:57:30.800 Yeah, you survived that really hard night. 00:57:31.039 --> 00:57:32.320 Yes, barely. 00:57:32.480 --> 00:57:33.519 All our tents didn't. 00:57:33.760 --> 00:57:34.719 Our tents had gone. 00:57:35.119 --> 00:57:35.280 Yeah. 00:57:35.760 --> 00:57:37.199 We destroyed like three or four tents. 00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:39.519 All of our bust. 00:57:41.840 --> 00:57:42.239 Wow. 00:57:42.400 --> 00:57:43.760 That sounds really rough. 00:57:43.920 --> 00:57:49.840 And then you just got up and left or and the next day you have to hike on no sleep. 00:57:50.000 --> 00:57:50.559 Oh, right. 00:57:50.719 --> 00:57:54.639 You know, not like you're sleeping in that, you know, so you're up at the first light. 00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:59.519 I mean, as soon as it was light at all, we were up and on the move because you know, you were miserable. 00:57:59.679 --> 00:58:00.320 You gotta get out. 00:58:00.400 --> 00:58:01.199 Yeah, and you gotta get out. 00:58:01.599 --> 00:58:02.719 We spent we didn't spend another night. 00:58:03.199 --> 00:58:05.280 No, we actually just we left. 00:58:05.440 --> 00:58:07.599 Well, I think we were within a day of yeah of it. 00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:09.840 Yeah, it was a day to get out. 00:58:10.159 --> 00:58:19.440 You know, we we have a bunch of those horrible experiences that we we would just we would never give that up. 00:58:19.599 --> 00:58:23.519 We never if we could go back in time, we would not do it any differently. 00:58:23.840 --> 00:58:27.679 But if somebody told you that this is what's gonna happen, you wouldn't go. 00:58:29.440 --> 00:58:37.360 You don't want to know if you if you survive it and then you look back and you think that that happened to us. 00:58:37.679 --> 00:58:40.559 I mean, we had amazing camps on the Picket Traverse. 00:58:40.639 --> 00:58:42.960 I mean, that's a nine-day trip, we did a 10-day trip. 00:58:43.119 --> 00:58:44.320 We had an amazing camp. 00:58:44.559 --> 00:58:55.280 And I think that one of the camps I remember the most is this crappy camp in a fog bank where we had three tents and all three tents were touching each other. 00:58:56.000 --> 00:58:57.760 I mean, they were so little, bro. 00:58:58.239 --> 00:59:02.400 Top of each other, we had to position the tent so at least somebody could you could get out of your tent. 00:59:02.719 --> 00:59:03.599 There was no place else to put them. 00:59:03.840 --> 00:59:05.360 But there was there's no place else to put them. 00:59:05.519 --> 00:59:11.519 We had to camp, and here we are on this little, you know, we're just you're just all crammed on top of each other. 00:59:11.599 --> 00:59:12.719 I mean sardines. 00:59:13.280 --> 00:59:15.599 Truly, our doors were facing each other, you know. 00:59:15.679 --> 00:59:19.519 I mean, it's just yeah, but well, it made for good conversation. 00:59:19.599 --> 00:59:23.119 We could all talk to each other that we can light in the tents. 00:59:23.440 --> 00:59:24.079 That's right. 00:59:24.480 --> 00:59:25.760 You wouldn't you wouldn't wish that. 00:59:25.840 --> 00:59:28.639 It's not like you recommend that camp to anybody else. 00:59:28.960 --> 00:59:29.920 Right, right. 00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:36.639 But it was a good memory now, or a memory that you always remember and cherish as you look back. 00:59:36.800 --> 00:59:37.199 Yeah. 00:59:37.360 --> 00:59:38.800 And helps you feel connected. 00:59:39.039 --> 00:59:42.559 Is there any like is there a climb or anything that still haunts you? 00:59:42.719 --> 00:59:52.000 I know you already just talked about one, the big four, or anything else that stands out to you guys, um, or what you've learned from that experience? 00:59:53.360 --> 00:59:59.519 I've got one that I I really regret the three of us didn't try when we were a little younger. 00:59:59.840 --> 01:00:01.519 Mount Splessy in Canada. 01:00:01.760 --> 01:00:05.039 It's it's right on the border, the Canadian border. 01:00:05.280 --> 01:00:08.079 Famous mountain, scary as all get out. 01:00:08.559 --> 01:00:13.119 But by the easy route, I think the three of us could have managed to get up that. 01:00:13.199 --> 01:00:15.599 And I just I wish we would have tried. 01:00:15.920 --> 01:00:21.280 Yeah, we talked about it from different times, and then it would get pushed off, and then stuff happens. 01:00:21.519

--> 01:00:22.000 Stuff happens. 01:00:22.800 --> 01:00:23.440 Yeah, you know. 01:00:23.679 --> 01:00:26.000 But it's yeah, I what mountain? 01:00:27.199 --> 01:00:28.480 Mount Slefsey. 01:00:28.880 --> 01:00:29.199 Oh. 01:00:29.760 --> 01:00:30.079 Okay. 01:00:31.199 --> 01:00:33.760 Is it technical or is it what is it? 01:00:33.920 --> 01:00:35.039 Yeah, very technical. 01:00:35.519 --> 01:00:38.239 Like a alpine climb or oh yeah. 01:00:38.320 --> 01:00:38.480 Yeah. 01:00:38.719 --> 01:00:40.000 It's a big mountain. 01:00:40.239 --> 01:00:42.159 Long, it'd be a long climb. 01:00:42.639 --> 01:00:45.679 Multi-pitch or yeah, well. 01:00:45.920 --> 01:00:47.920 And we'd be going up the down route. 01:00:48.719 --> 01:00:48.800 Okay. 01:00:50.800 --> 01:00:53.760 You know, we're not we're not that kind of technical climbers. 01:00:53.920 --> 01:00:56.320 We're not none of us are that kind of technical climbers. 01:00:56.639 --> 01:00:59.199 And and will you guys do it or no? 01:01:00.559 --> 01:01:02.320 None of us have even touched the rock. 01:01:02.719 --> 01:01:03.039 Okay. 01:01:03.760 --> 01:01:08.719 And I were gonna go one year and we did a lot of research, and then we decided we need a gym. 01:01:09.679 --> 01:01:11.760 Yeah, and then it just never happened. 01:01:12.079 --> 01:01:17.519 I yeah, I if I go back in time, I would have made that a higher priority on our list. 01:01:18.079 --> 01:01:21.440 Would you guys go and touch the rock even if you or is that not? 01:01:22.159 --> 01:01:24.480 I like to call it the sun is set for me. 01:01:24.880 --> 01:01:25.119 Okay. 01:01:25.360 --> 01:01:27.280 I know to the rock. 01:01:27.840 --> 01:01:30.400 Jim's the only one that the sun is on the horizon. 01:01:30.559 --> 01:01:32.079 The rest of us, the sun has set on that. 01:01:32.559 --> 01:01:33.760 Yeah, the sun has set. 01:01:35.519 --> 01:01:41.519 And can you guys say a little bit more about how you guys I you talked about a little bit, but do you still set goals together? 01:01:41.679 --> 01:01:48.000 It sounds like you do you by planning trips together or um or just about the concept of setting goals. 01:01:49.039 --> 01:01:52.880 I we just try and make sure that we do something together. 01:01:53.119 --> 01:01:59.840 You know, I mean we we we typically I've been injured, but we typically, you know, through the winter, we'll do little hikes and stuff like that. 01:02:00.239 --> 01:02:04.239 I'm just happy when they agree to go out with me, even on a simple hike. 01:02:04.400 --> 01:02:05.760 If they haven't forgotten me. 01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:06.239 Yeah. 01:02:06.559 --> 01:02:13.119 Well, and there was a year that Jim had a severe injury, and when he was recovering, his it was in his back. 01:02:13.199 --> 01:02:18.239 So the recovery was he couldn't carry a pack and he couldn't do this, and he had all these requirements. 01:02:18.400 --> 01:02:33.599 And so it was just it was several years back, and you know, Faye, of course, was a

few more years younger, and so we just thought this is something maybe we all want to try together, you know, these different things while Jim's recuperating. 01:02:33.760 --> 01:02:34.639 We had a blast. 01:02:34.800 --> 01:02:43.760 So I guess there is in my mind that that when we come up with different things, and I think, and I think you're the same way with the trailer trips, is you think they would really like this. 01:02:44.159 --> 01:02:49.280 So I think we're still looking for things that they would really like, you know, when we're thinking about the rest of us. 01:02:49.840 --> 01:02:55.599 So that we always because that's that's the saddest part to me is that the three of us don't climb anymore. 01:02:55.760 --> 01:02:56.239 Very sad. 01:02:57.039 --> 01:02:59.440 Yeah, it was a very special time in life. 01:02:59.599 --> 01:03:01.280 Yeah, what a legacy though. 01:03:01.440 --> 01:03:03.280 Yeah, what a legacy. 01:03:03.840 --> 01:03:07.360 Many, many, many memories, and so important, right? 01:03:07.840 --> 01:03:09.679 All those memories and experiences. 01:03:09.840 --> 01:03:15.199 And and Faye, you were saying, well, what something about like what will your life be like without the mountains? 01:03:15.280 --> 01:03:17.280 Like, because it's been such a central part. 01:03:17.519 --> 01:03:21.920 Well, I I actually think about that now because you know, I'm in the twilight of my life. 01:03:23.519 --> 01:03:26.559 And my goal is to stay upright to the end. 01:03:26.800 --> 01:03:28.079 Yes, yeah. 01:03:28.320 --> 01:03:33.679 And it wouldn't bother me at all to just fall off a trail somewhere and end it all. 01:03:33.840 --> 01:03:37.199 That would be much more appealing than end up in a nursing home. 01:03:37.679 --> 01:03:39.360 Yeah, just yeah. 01:03:39.760 --> 01:03:47.599 Well, and you you talk about, you know, what the mountains have taught us or what you know the relationship or whatever you want to, you know, us climbing together and stuff like that. 01:03:47.760 --> 01:03:55.280 Jim and I have talked a lot and we really admire the way Faye has consistently found a way to keep it in her life. 01:03:55.599 --> 01:03:56.239 Yeah. 01:03:56.480 --> 01:03:58.960 And I think a lot of people just stop. 01:03:59.519 --> 01:03:59.840 Yeah. 01:04:02.480 --> 01:04:03.199 Go ahead. 01:04:03.599 --> 01:04:04.400 Oh, yeah. 01:04:04.559 --> 01:04:05.199 I I agree. 01:04:05.360 --> 01:04:16.559 Faye, Faye is just, you know, she achieves her her goals get less and less lofty, but the the motivation is still there. 01:04:16.800 --> 01:04:18.320 And uh the adventure still. 01:04:19.039 --> 01:04:19.760 You'd be surprised. 01:04:19.840 --> 01:04:22.880 I can make make an adventure out of a two-mile hike. 01:04:23.039 --> 01:04:23.679 I really can't. 01:04:23.840 --> 01:04:24.800 So love that. 01:04:25.119 --> 01:04:25.599 That's great. 01:04:26.880 --> 01:04:33.280 You know, people would think that maybe we wouldn't enjoy these, do you know,

when we go and spend a week in our trailer with her. 01:04:33.519 --> 01:04:35.280 But the two of us really enjoy it. 01:04:35.360 --> 01:04:42.239 You know, we get to spend time with her, we get to do stuff, but it's also, you know, we definitely go, oh, let's go there. 01:04:42.320 --> 01:04:43.360 And we all, okay. 01:04:43.519 --> 01:04:44.639 You know, is it a good idea? 01:04:44.719 --> 01:04:47.599 I don't know, let's just do it, you know, that sort of thing. 01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:53.679 Yeah, still doing it, exploring, adventuring with a lot of flexibility. 01:04:54.000 --> 01:04:57.519 So you you don't get yeah, that's that's the main goal. 01:04:57.760 --> 01:05:00.960 I mean, my goals in the past were always summits. 01:05:01.280 --> 01:05:04.480 And and I you know, I still love summits if I can get to a summit. 01:05:04.800 --> 01:05:07.760 But actually, the main goal is just have an adventure. 01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:09.199 Yeah, yeah. 01:05:09.760 --> 01:05:12.400 Yes, yeah, and you can have a venture in all kinds of ways. 01:05:12.800 --> 01:05:13.199 Oh, yes. 01:05:13.440 --> 01:05:21.920 Well, and I think to me, Faye, that what's interesting is that's that's another thing that people think you're gonna get into mountaineering, and it's all about all these climbs, right? 01:05:22.079 --> 01:05:23.199 I mean, that's what people think. 01:05:23.360 --> 01:05:25.519 I'm gonna climb Rainier, I'm gonna climb this. 01:05:25.679 --> 01:05:27.280 I hated climbing Rainier, by the way. 01:05:27.519 --> 01:05:29.519 Uh wasn't my favorite either. 01:05:29.679 --> 01:05:30.960 Because the other ones are more interesting. 01:05:31.599 --> 01:05:33.519 Don't get me wrong, Rainier is beautiful looking. 01:05:33.679 --> 01:05:34.320 Yes, yes, yes. 01:05:35.679 --> 01:05:41.119 So people think that those are your goals, and those are, you know, it's only fun if you summit. 01:05:41.199 --> 01:05:43.039 It's only this if you summit. 01:05:43.199 --> 01:05:49.119 And Faye and I, the second time we went in for crooked thumb, it was just the two of us. 01:05:49.280 --> 01:05:52.000 I think that was our first solo trip, the two of us. 01:05:52.159 --> 01:05:54.159 And we didn't climb a thing. 01:05:54.400 --> 01:05:59.679 We got stymied because of the weather at one point, we got tent bound for a day. 01:06:00.480 --> 01:06:04.880 We we we're on our way out and we hadn't climbed a thing. 01:06:05.119 --> 01:06:09.440 And we both still to this day remember it as one of our favorite trips ever. 01:06:10.239 --> 01:06:11.199 We had adventures. 01:06:11.440 --> 01:06:12.400 We had adventures. 01:06:13.920 --> 01:06:16.239 But it's not it doesn't have to be. 01:06:16.559 --> 01:06:18.079 And we found the route up critical dog. 01:06:18.400 --> 01:06:18.719 And we did. 01:06:18.800 --> 01:06:20.239 So when we took Jim, we knew the route. 01:06:20.719 --> 01:06:21.519 We knew how to get there. 01:06:22.079 --> 01:06:22.960 We just couldn't do it. 01:06:23.440

--> 01:06:23.760 Yeah. 01:06:24.559 --> 01:06:32.639 And so I think that people think that it has to be, you know, people were shocked when Faye said it was one of her favorite trips, and people are like, you didn't climb anything. 01:06:32.880 --> 01:06:36.480 You know, she's known for all the mountains she climbs and all the peaks and all the, you know. 01:06:36.719 --> 01:06:43.360 And it's I guess, I guess it's celebrating the little things, you know, it's just about enjoying life. 01:06:43.519 --> 01:06:47.119 It doesn't have to be I climbed Mount Rainier. 01:06:47.519 --> 01:06:47.760 Yeah. 01:06:48.000 --> 01:06:48.559 Yeah. 01:06:48.880 --> 01:06:49.199 Yeah. 01:06:49.360 --> 01:06:52.000 Because if you just climb with people you don't know, right? 01:06:52.079 --> 01:06:57.199 Or maybe you'll meet talk to people or you don't, but that that relational component wouldn't maybe be there. 01:06:57.360 --> 01:07:03.360 But what you are describing is so beautiful because you're talking about your relationship, the adventure, the experiences. 01:07:03.519 --> 01:07:04.079 Is that correct? 01:07:04.239 --> 01:07:05.039 Do I have that correct? 01:07:05.440 --> 01:07:05.679 Yeah. 01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:06.960 This journey. 01:07:07.199 --> 01:07:09.519 But you're still living into that adventure. 01:07:09.679 --> 01:07:10.320 Is that correct? 01:07:10.559 --> 01:07:11.920 Yeah, it was an adventure. 01:07:13.199 --> 01:07:15.760 And and that's so mean it sounds really meaningful. 01:07:15.920 --> 01:07:17.360 And what are your favorite memories? 01:07:17.920 --> 01:07:26.719 We could is I don't think either of us knew that we could the two of us do an eight-day trip with technical climbing gear. 01:07:27.199 --> 01:07:30.159 I mean, that's a lot of weight, very devotion. 01:07:30.559 --> 01:07:32.320 But we both carried one of those two. 01:07:35.519 --> 01:07:35.840 Yeah. 01:07:36.320 --> 01:07:36.880 That's right. 01:07:37.199 --> 01:07:39.760 Neither of which are are high-end climbers. 01:07:40.079 --> 01:07:45.039 You know, we we we got into the heart of the pickets all by ourselves. 01:07:45.199 --> 01:07:45.360 Yeah. 01:07:46.000 --> 01:07:47.199 So impressive. 01:07:47.840 --> 01:07:48.320 Wow. 01:07:48.480 --> 01:07:48.800 Yeah. 01:07:49.199 --> 01:07:49.840 So strong. 01:07:50.000 --> 01:07:51.440 It's really remarkable. 01:07:52.079 --> 01:07:54.239 You're capable a lot more than you think you are. 01:07:54.719 --> 01:07:55.519 Absolutely. 01:07:56.800 --> 01:07:58.320 So so awesome. 01:07:58.559 --> 01:08:06.800 Um, what do you hope that as you guys are sharing will inspire others about the outdoors? 01:08:08.559 --> 01:08:11.039 Your any hopes that you have for people? 01:08:12.480 --> 01:08:14.559 I just want them to go out. 01:08:14.880 --> 01:08:22.800 I think Jim summed it up earlier where I think your hope is that people would just get outside in the winter in the Pacific Northwest. 01:08:23.840 --> 01:08:24.720 I think that's a great way. 01:08:25.039 --> 01:08:27.600 I mean, he's constantly encouraging people just to go. 01:08:28.800 --> 01:08:37.760 And and just enjoy the experience and not just go after this might sound strange coming from me since I've done so many lists. 01:08:38.800 --> 01:08:41.439 Just don't go after lists, just lists. 01:08:42.560 --> 01:08:42.960 Right. 01:08:43.279 --> 01:08:59.760 I mean, they're they're a good way to come up with ideas, but it just seems like lately the focus has been on completing lists, completing them farther faster than anybody else, completing them, you know, in times when nobody else which I think is a prescription for disaster. 01:09:00.079 --> 01:09:00.479 Mm-hmm. 01:09:00.880 --> 01:09:01.439 Right. 01:09:02.159 --> 01:09:15.119 But yeah, you just and I think that's what shocked people about how much Faye liked our pick our crooked thumb, is you know, they're all like, well, she's after lists, and it's like, no, she's after just so it's just about being outside. 01:09:15.359 --> 01:09:21.439 I mean, I do I have completed a lot of lists, but what I my point is that they just gave me ideas of where to go. 01:09:21.520 --> 01:09:24.319 It wasn't the lists themselves I was after. 01:09:24.640 --> 01:09:30.880 Yeah, and you were after kind of can you say more about is it the experience, the adventure phase? 01:09:31.199 --> 01:09:33.199 Well, I I mean I can't be dishonest. 01:09:33.279 --> 01:09:34.880 I I do like getting to summits. 01:09:35.119 --> 01:09:35.439 Sure. 01:09:35.600 --> 01:09:40.239 Yeah, why of course that's a good thing. 01:09:41.439 --> 01:09:42.560 Yeah, right. 01:09:43.119 --> 01:09:46.079 And by the way, I will climb a mountain twice. 01:09:46.239 --> 01:09:48.800 There are some people who will not, they absolutely refuse. 01:09:48.960 --> 01:09:50.800 Once they've climbed it, it's you they're done. 01:09:51.039 --> 01:09:54.720 I say, but you can go up a different route, you can do it a different time of year. 01:09:54.880 --> 01:09:56.159 It's a whole different experience. 01:09:56.399 --> 01:09:57.039 Yeah. 01:09:57.359 --> 01:10:00.000 No, once you've climbed it, it's done. 01:10:00.800 --> 01:10:04.159 And and I will say that again is something that the three of us share. 01:10:04.800 --> 01:10:10.000 Because I mean, there's a lot of people that won't climb the same mountain twice. 01:10:10.399 --> 01:10:12.560 Or they're only climbing the same mountains. 01:10:12.720 --> 01:10:14.800 I mean, there's people that well, there's that too. 01:10:15.600 --> 01:10:16.880 This is what they know, so this is what they do. 01:10:17.199 --> 01:10:17.920 They never do anything else. 01:10:18.079 --> 01:10:19.840 Yeah, they don't they don't branch out. 01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:23.119 Where yeah, the three of us definitely we share that. 01:10:23.199 --> 01:10:27.119 That we'll we'll go climb the same thing twice if it's different people, if it's different experience. 01:10:27.359 --> 01:10:30.319 However,

that being said, there are some peaks I will never climb again. 01:10:30.399 --> 01:10:31.039 Yeah. 01:10:31.840 --> 01:10:34.159 We still can't believe you climbed American border with us. 01:10:34.880 --> 01:10:38.880 She climbed it twice because I climbed it only to be with Jim and Eileen. 01:10:39.039 --> 01:10:39.199 Yeah. 01:10:39.439 --> 01:10:40.479 Oh wow, really? 01:10:42.960 --> 01:10:46.159 What was it like to climb with them and without them? 01:10:47.279 --> 01:10:47.920 I'm sorry? 01:10:48.079 --> 01:10:51.199 Like, so you climbed it without them and then you climbed it with Jim and Eileen. 01:10:51.520 --> 01:10:56.239 Well, I climbed it previously with well, I didn't that one I didn't solo, I did it with someone else. 01:10:56.560 --> 01:10:57.760 But it was successful. 01:10:57.920 --> 01:11:00.239 And it it's not a very fun peak, really. 01:11:00.319 --> 01:11:01.439 It's it's kind of crappy. 01:11:01.600 --> 01:11:02.880 But then they were gonna do it. 01:11:03.039 --> 01:11:08.880 And you know, I just wanted the experience of climbing it with them and being with them. 01:11:09.279 --> 01:11:11.039 Yeah, creating those memories. 01:11:11.279 --> 01:11:17.439 And it's a it's um very convoluted peak, so it really helped to have somebody that had done, you know, absolutely. 01:11:17.920 --> 01:11:25.680 Even though you would think going back, you know, I've done something, you're going back, you would think it would be easier to route find. 01:11:25.840 --> 01:11:30.159 It's almost worse because you think you remember how to go and you get there and you don't. 01:11:30.720 --> 01:11:32.479 Is that up in the Baker range? 01:11:32.640 --> 01:11:38.479 Is that yeah, it's it's east of not Baker, it's right it's right on the border with Canada. 01:11:38.640 --> 01:11:38.800 Yeah. 01:11:39.279 --> 01:11:40.159 Oh wow, yeah. 01:11:40.399 --> 01:11:41.840 Yeah, it's right on the border. 01:11:44.000 --> 01:11:44.399 Yeah. 01:11:44.560 --> 01:11:54.800 And is there anything else that you guys I know it's not about just making reaching the summit, but is there anything else you would say about what it's like for you in your experience when you reach a summit? 01:11:55.920 --> 01:12:01.760 I would say it uh I uh i as much as I've disparaged just climbing to get to the summit. 01:12:02.159 --> 01:12:02.960 Right, right, right, right. 01:12:04.079 --> 01:12:12.960 And I have the same feeling, almost the same feeling, not quite the same, because I have to separate out some peaks like crooked thumb is really great to get to the summit. 01:12:13.119 --> 01:12:19.680 But I get the same feeling when I climb any summit, even even a dumpster when I get to the tall. 01:12:19.840 --> 01:12:22.560 You know, I there's there's no you can't get any higher. 01:12:23.119 --> 01:12:25.600 Yeah than your surroundings. 01:12:26.159 --> 01:12:26.479 Right. 01:12:26.640 --> 01:12:27.680 And what is that feeling? 01:12:27.840 --> 01:12:31.439 Is it just what does

it feel like if you were to describe it? 01:12:31.600 --> 01:12:33.439 I know it's always different, but what would you say? 01:12:35.039 --> 01:12:36.640 Well, fork and relief. 01:12:37.199 --> 01:12:38.880 Yes, pork. 01:12:39.199 --> 01:12:40.640 Now I have to get down. 01:12:40.880 --> 01:12:41.680 Right, right. 01:12:41.760 --> 01:12:42.399 It's not over. 01:12:43.039 --> 01:12:45.279 Frequently the hardest part is getting down. 01:12:45.520 --> 01:12:47.600 Yes, yes, yeah, right. 01:12:47.840 --> 01:13:18.479 So question is if you were to look back and look and you were going to give the three of you when you first got together and started doing this, and you were gonna give like one piece of advice, like knowing what you know now, you know, and you were gonna look back at your younger selves when you met and said, that if you don't do anything else, or if you, you know, what is the one piece of advice you would give your younger selves when you started this together? 01:13:18.800 --> 01:13:20.319 Pick good companions. 01:13:20.479 --> 01:13:21.680 Yeah, people you trust. 01:13:21.840 --> 01:13:22.319 That's something else. 01:13:22.479 --> 01:13:34.560 I'm gonna say climb Slessie, but that's the advice I would give is you know, whatever whatever you think you want to climb, start with the harder ones. 01:13:34.720 --> 01:13:37.840 Don't save those into your sunset years. 01:13:38.319 --> 01:13:41.119 Yeah, that's wise, wise advice. 01:13:41.439 --> 01:13:41.920 Yeah, okay. 01:13:42.000 --> 01:13:47.760 So so Slessie is the one that if the three of you could climb together, you would do that. 01:13:48.479 --> 01:13:48.960 Yes. 01:13:49.119 --> 01:13:49.760 Yeah. 01:13:50.239 --> 01:13:59.039 Well, I I think actually it, you know, it Slessie was I was aware of Slessie, and it would have been a nice uh nice peak to get up. 01:13:59.199 --> 01:14:02.560 But I I think Jim is more Jim and I got more obsessed about it than Ben. 01:14:03.039 --> 01:14:03.439 Disappointed. 01:14:03.600 --> 01:14:06.319 Yeah, Jim and Eileen are more disappointed than I am. 01:14:06.560 --> 01:14:07.199 I tried to check it out. 01:14:08.000 --> 01:14:09.119 Obviously, I can live with it. 01:14:09.920 --> 01:14:11.279 Is there one for you, Faye? 01:14:11.439 --> 01:14:12.079 That's what I think. 01:14:12.239 --> 01:14:14.159 No, the only one was was Big Four. 01:14:14.239 --> 01:14:15.119 I love that. 01:14:15.760 --> 01:14:18.000 I w really would have liked to have gotten up big four. 01:14:18.319 --> 01:14:18.800 Me too. 01:14:19.039 --> 01:14:19.279 Yeah. 01:14:19.439 --> 01:14:21.600 It sounds like do do people a lot of people climb that? 01:14:21.680 --> 01:14:25.199 Is that pretty that's in Grant Mountain Loop Highway area? 01:14:25.439 --> 01:14:25.680 Uh huh. 01:14:26.000 --> 01:14:27.119 Yeah, it's a flat loop, yeah. 01:14:27.359 --> 01:14:29.520 Yeah, it doesn't get very many climbs. 01:14:32.479 --> 01:14:35.600 And it and it's it's hazardous. 01:14:37.520 --> 01:14:39.760 The objective hazards are high. 01:14:39.920 --> 01:14:40.159 Yeah. 01:14:40.880 --> 01:14:41.279 Yeah. 01:14:41.600 --> 01:14:54.079 And Rod, what's interesting about that question is I kind of looked at it like, you know, what for the three of us, you know, I think a lot of people might say start earlier, you know, anything like that. 01:14:54.319 --> 01:15:01.840 But I think the way the three of us came together, um, I think it it it happened the way it needed to happen. 01:15:02.239 --> 01:15:06.159 You know, you can't push me as a learner any faster. 01:15:06.560 --> 01:15:10.479 You know, um, I couldn't build my confidence any sooner. 01:15:10.640 --> 01:15:12.479 The three of us climbed a lot. 01:15:12.800 --> 01:15:16.159 So we I mean, if I was progressing as fast as I could progress. 01:15:16.399 --> 01:15:20.720 And I think as soon as I was able, we started ramping up. 01:15:21.199 --> 01:15:26.319 You know, it was it was never one of those things where, yeah, we should have started earlier, yes, we should have done this. 01:15:26.479 --> 01:15:36.880 I mean, there was several years in there where it was the three of us, you know, and it wasn't when it was early, it wasn't like it was could have happened earlier, I guess, is the whole thing. 01:15:37.359 --> 01:15:40.479 I think we played that out about as good as you can play it out. 01:15:40.720 --> 01:15:41.039 Yeah. 01:15:41.439 --> 01:15:42.079 Three of us. 01:15:42.800 --> 01:15:43.439 Wow. 01:15:44.000 --> 01:15:45.199 What a friendship. 01:15:45.359 --> 01:15:45.600 Wow. 01:15:45.840 --> 01:15:48.560 Yes, cherished friendship and how important it is. 01:15:48.720 --> 01:15:54.800 And in the United States, they talk about being a loneliness epidemic, so which is pretty sad. 01:15:55.359 --> 01:16:10.239 But your bond and your friendship is really evident, and also that you've had so many incredible adventures together and memories that just I just it's really remarkable and it's very touching to hear. 01:16:10.479 --> 01:16:21.920 And I hope it's very inspiring to people to connect with other people, build those relationships, and go outside in the winter and in the summer, get outside. 01:16:22.159 --> 01:16:23.359 Yes, get outside. 01:16:23.520 --> 01:16:26.239 Like REI says, get outside. 01:16:27.119 --> 01:17:11.840 I've seen I've seen so many relationships blossom, friendships, marriages, you know, I've married people on mountains that where they met in mountain school, or you know, and friend, you know, some of my you know, my best friends I've made since I joined the climbing community, and and they're just there's there's this bond that you've you've described so well that forms when you're a you you you meet with similar interests and then you you train together, you work together, and you know, you you do things together, so your values are aligned, and and you you know how the other person thinks a little bit, and that's important. 01:17:12.000 -->

01:17:13.760 And I think that in climbing, right? 01:17:13.840 --> 01:17:16.159 That's when I was in mountain school, that's what they said. 01:17:16.319 --> 01:17:28.880 They said when you go through mountain school, you're probably going to continue to climb with these same people a lot because you've been trained the same way, you know, you've learned the same things the same way, but you've built this relationship of trust with each other. 01:17:29.039 --> 01:17:52.640 And I think that that's that's what you've demonstrated so well here and you know, throughout your lives together, is just this bond of the love about you know, through the love of out the outdoors, through this trust that you've created, and and my gosh, just this this bold spirit to just go do stuff and try stuff and keep going. 01:17:52.880 --> 01:18:01.119 I mean, like I said, it's it's for an old guy like me, it's very motivating to to hear that, you know, and and inspiring. 01:18:01.279 --> 01:18:06.239 So it's this is such a such an inspiring life, you three have led. 01:18:06.560 --> 01:18:11.600 Yes, and and Ron, I'm gonna speak to what you just said because I thought it was very interesting. 01:18:11.760 --> 01:18:21.520 That you know, there was a lot of people that always felt like the three of us were lucky, you know, or Faye might be lucky because she found us to and we could haul more gear, you know. 01:18:21.760 --> 01:18:26.640 Or, you know, I mean we'd we'd find other club climbers and they'd be like, Oh, you guys are just lucky. 01:18:26.880 --> 01:18:27.840 You're just lucky. 01:18:28.000 --> 01:18:31.039 And it's like people just don't take the time. 01:18:31.119 --> 01:18:35.520 I mean, Faye took the time to climb a what I could climb. 01:18:35.840 --> 01:18:40.239 You know, neither of them have ever taken me on something that I couldn't climb. 01:18:40.479 --> 01:18:46.239 You know, if if I couldn't climb it, they would go with just the two of them and I would stay behind. 01:18:46.399 --> 01:18:53.279 And I think that that's not the way so many people get so goal-oriented, they're gonna run over or leave people behind. 01:18:53.520 --> 01:19:03.039 And I think when you don't take the time to build relationships, and it's the same with life, you don't take that time to build this relationship, you can't do what the three of us did. 01:19:03.279 --> 01:19:10.880 Yes, and it's not about the fact that we're the same, three of us are the same skill level, yeah, or the same strength, or the same. 01:19:11.039 --> 01:19:13.439 I mean, that has nothing to do with it. 01:19:13.520 --> 01:19:16.880 It had to be with the the taking the time to build the relationship. 01:19:17.119 --> 01:19:17.680 Yeah, yeah. 01:19:17.840 --> 01:19:21.840 So for whatever reason, we we developed a synergy. 01:19:22.479 --> 01:19:24.960 I think we we made each other better. 01:19:25.199 --> 01:19:26.560 Well, it sure made me better. 01:19:26.960 --> 01:19:29.039 Yeah, that's so impressive. 01:19:29.279 --> 01:19:32.800 Well, this is like the power of friendship, the power of relationship. 01:19:34.079 --> 01:19:35.439 Better together, right? 01:19:35.520 --> 01:19:43.439 It's easier versus and uh of course, Vay, you've done remarkable work solo, which is so inspiration to women. 01:19:43.520 --> 01:19:47.439 I mean, such so inspiring, but you have both. 01:19:48.319 --> 01:19:51.520 Why I'm not pushing going solo. 01:19:53.920 --> 01:19:58.720 It was either that or stay home, and I wasn't I understand, right? 01:19:59.199 --> 01:20:02.239 Because of the time and trying to connect, find people, right? 01:20:02.399 --> 01:20:07.439 This at that time that just being really, and you know, I found others, but none of them like this. 01:20:07.600 --> 01:20:07.840 Yeah. 01:20:09.039 --> 01:20:10.239 Fantastic. 01:20:10.479 --> 01:20:10.880 Yeah. 01:20:11.119 --> 01:20:17.439 Well, I think we're near our the end of our time, and yeah, I just can't gush about you anymore. 01:20:17.600 --> 01:20:30.079 But you know, before we Carrie takes us out, is there anything else that you know you want us or our listeners to to know about you or you know what's next in your lives? 01:20:33.760 --> 01:20:36.880 We're just gonna keep I'm just gonna keep going as long as I can. 01:20:37.199 --> 01:20:39.039 Yeah, that's the whole idea. 01:20:39.920 --> 01:20:42.640 Yeah, I can't imagine a life without the outdoors. 01:20:43.439 --> 01:20:44.960 We're just trying to keep keep going. 01:20:45.359 --> 01:20:48.000 We're all tapering down, but we're not stopping. 01:20:48.159 --> 01:20:48.560 Yeah, yeah. 01:20:48.880 --> 01:20:49.199 Love it. 01:20:49.520 --> 01:20:54.000 We're just trying to find the next, you know, what is the next normal yeah? 01:20:54.079 --> 01:20:54.319 Yeah. 01:20:54.640 --> 01:20:54.960 Yeah. 01:20:55.760 --> 01:20:56.000 Yeah. 01:20:56.159 --> 01:20:56.880 Great way to put it. 01:20:56.960 --> 01:20:57.119 Yeah. 01:20:57.760 --> 01:21:00.319 Um, it's not over, it's just gonna be different. 01:21:00.560 --> 01:21:01.039 Yeah. 01:21:01.279 --> 01:21:01.680 Amen. 01:21:02.079 --> 01:21:02.960 Right, right. 01:21:03.119 --> 01:21:13.119 And you're speaking about flexibility in some ways, like you know, just still going outside, still having adventure, still having relationship and connection, but being flexible with it. 01:21:13.199 --> 01:21:13.680 Is that right? 01:21:13.840 --> 01:21:14.720 I mean, that's what I'm hearing. 01:21:15.039 --> 01:21:15.359 Exactly. 01:21:16.079 --> 01:21:23.920 Maintaining all of that with flexibility, like onward till whenever our ends are, right? 01:21:24.399 --> 01:21:25.680 Which is so inspiring. 01:21:26.000 --> 01:21:28.640 Um, you okay, so Jim, you've got your website. 01:21:28.800 --> 01:21:30.239 Eileen, you've got your website. 01:21:30.720 --> 01:21:31.039 Fake. 01:21:31.199 --> 01:21:32.000 Do you have a website? 01:21:32.079 --> 01:21:40.640 Or I just want to make sure people,

however, just just last week, people have been pushing me to get my life list on peakbagger.com. 01:21:41.039 --> 01:21:41.279 Good. 01:21:41.520 --> 01:21:44.640 I've always resisted because I'm not organized. 01:21:44.800 --> 01:21:49.760 Way back when I had a an Excel uh uh uh spreadsheet. 01:21:49.920 --> 01:21:50.399 Spreadsheet. 01:21:50.640 --> 01:21:51.279 Spreadsheet. 01:21:51.439 --> 01:21:57.199 Uh but that only went to 1971, I think. 01:21:58.319 --> 01:21:58.960 Is that right? 01:21:59.199 --> 01:22:00.319 Boy, that's a long time ago. 01:22:03.359 --> 01:22:04.640 Don't quote me on that. 01:22:04.960 --> 01:22:13.840 But anyways, but recently uh uh uh a fellow climber volunteered to put that spreadsheet on PPA. 01:22:14.239 --> 01:22:17.199 So it's on there, but it's it's only my early climbs. 01:22:17.600 --> 01:22:18.239 That's great. 01:22:18.880 --> 01:22:19.359 It's okay. 01:22:19.840 --> 01:22:20.720 That makes more sense. 01:22:21.199 --> 01:22:27.439 Anyway, but uh my later climbs, which are the which include all the the better climbs. 01:22:27.600 --> 01:22:33.359 You know, I I started climbing when I moved here in in 1964, which I think is when I climb out or near. 01:22:33.439 --> 01:22:36.399 Everybody climbs out nearly near 64. 01:22:38.000 --> 01:22:47.119 But ever since then I've I've gotten lazy and uh I have every climb documented, but they're handwritten in notebooks. 01:22:47.520 --> 01:22:51.520 And so it would be it would take an awful lot of time to transcribe them. 01:22:51.680 --> 01:22:57.279 But maybe AI AI will do it for you. 01:22:59.840 --> 01:23:04.239 Yes, AI will scan it and try last week on speak bagger. 01:23:04.720 --> 01:23:07.359 Yes, AI can help you. 01:23:07.680 --> 01:23:11.680 You can use AI, you scan it, AI will transcribe it for you and put it in there. 01:23:11.760 --> 01:23:12.319 It's pretty amazing. 01:23:13.279 --> 01:23:15.119 You can't screw transcribe my handwritten. 01:23:19.680 --> 01:23:20.399 I don't know. 01:23:20.560 --> 01:23:25.680 I figure I figure if I can read some of Fred Becky's uh scribbles, uh, you know. 01:23:26.399 --> 01:23:27.520 You have a point there. 01:23:28.960 --> 01:23:32.800 So and uh Eileen, what's your website, Jim? 01:23:33.039 --> 01:23:34.560 Your website again? 01:23:35.119 --> 01:23:39.600 Jim's is the one we've been working the most on, and that's trailcatgym.com. 01:23:39.840 --> 01:23:42.319 Mindside adventures.com. 01:23:42.960 --> 01:23:45.359 Yes, we've been spending the most time on gyms. 01:23:45.680 --> 01:23:47.039 Yeah, okay, great. 01:23:47.279 --> 01:23:50.479 And it's and for our listeners, we'll put it up on the website as well. 01:23:50.720 --> 01:23:56.000 TrailcatGym.com is I mean, it's so detailed. 01:23:56.159 --> 01:24:03.119 If you really, I mean, if you really want to know about a climb, it is so the detail is so great. 01:24:03.199 --> 01:24:07.039 Yeah, and it's fun to read through and and get inspired by that as well. 01:24:07.119 --> 01:24:09.119 So we'll make sure we get it up on the website too. 01:24:09.279 --> 01:24:11.199 So yeah, yeah. 01:24:11.359 --> 01:24:12.560 And Jim, that's a gift. 01:24:12.640 --> 01:24:18.560 And Eileen, all of you that you've given to everyone to kindly freely share all of that with everyone. 01:24:18.640 --> 01:24:20.720 It's such a gift, your websites. 01:24:20.880 --> 01:24:22.159 So thank you so much. 01:24:22.399 --> 01:24:27.520 It is such an honor, such a privilege to be with you, the three of you. 01:24:27.600 --> 01:24:31.680 You're like the stalplying expert, incredible team. 01:24:31.920 --> 01:24:33.359 We are so lucky. 01:24:33.760 --> 01:24:38.399 Just I feel privileged to be able to be with you in this conversation. 01:24:38.640 --> 01:24:40.399 I've learned so much from you. 01:24:40.640 --> 01:24:57.920 I am confident that people will be inspired to get outside, just like REI talks about, in whatever form fashion that they can, and also build the relationships and really get connected with people, build trusting relationships while being outside. 01:24:58.159 --> 01:25:01.840 Yeah, whether it be on a peak or in the park or wherever. 01:25:02.159 --> 01:25:05.279 And so thank you so much for your inspiration. 01:25:05.439 --> 01:25:10.239 It's been a real gift and um a joy to work with you and talk with you guys today. 01:25:10.880 --> 01:25:12.000 Well, thank you for having us. 01:25:12.560 --> 01:25:13.199 Thank you. 01:25:13.439 --> 01:25:14.079 Thank you. 01:25:14.239 --> 01:25:16.720 All right, look forward to talking with you again. 01:25:16.960 --> 01:25:18.640 Okay, bye, bye. 01:25:18.880 --> 01:25:19.760 Bye bye.