התמלול המלא של Practical advice for modern dads

glass on This American Life. One that 73 00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:06.199 we like is a good mystery, sometimes about really big things, 74 00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:09.599 but most times the little mysteries are the best. 75 00:04:09.759 --> 00:04:12.400 Are Lost and Found is currently filled with pants I 76 00:04:12.439 --> 00:04:14.879 don't know, I've never seen this happen. 77 00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:15.919 That's true. 78 00:04:16.040 --> 00:04:20.399 This is true mysteries of every size. Each week This 79 00:04:20.480 --> 00:04:23.560 American Life. Wherever you get your podcasts. 80 00:04:23.519 --> 00:04:26.040 You know every day on our first NPR's Golden Globe 81 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:30.040 nominated morning news podcast, we bring you three essential stories. 82 00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:34.519 At the heart of each story, our questions, what really happened, 83 00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:38.240 What really mattered? What happens next? At NPR we stand 84 00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:41.519 for your right to be curious and to follow the facts. 85 00:04:41.839 --> 00:04:44.600 Follow up first, wherever you get your podcasts and start 86 00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:46.199 your day knowing what matters and why. 87 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:51.959 A lot of us have basically a mini beauty product 88 00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:54.680 store in our bathrooms, and it's easy to feel like 89 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:59.279 if you don't use the right serums, creams, acids, and toners, 90 00:04:59.319 --> 00:05:02.519 you're somehow doomed to having bad skin. But do you 91 00:05:02.600 --> 00:05:05.560 really need all those products? Life Kit made a special 92 00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:08.879 newsletter series to help you figure out your skincare goals 93 00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:12.079 and what you actually need. Sign up at npr dot 94 00:05:12.199 --> 00:05:15.319 org slash skincare or find the link in the description 95 00:05:15.399 --> 00:05:16.319 for this episode. 96 00:05:19.879 --> 00:05:22.680 First up, we've got a question surrounding gender. 97 00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:26.399 Roles Highlight Kit Friends. This is Rocked Around from Saint Louis. 98 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:29.879 I'm a single dad raising a five year old daughter, 99 00:05:30.319 --> 00:05:33.439 and I find myself wrestling with questions about what should 100 00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:36.319 I teach her about men. On one hand, I see 101 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:41.000 the real dangers women face. Stories of harassment and assault 102 00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:43.480 are everywhere. What should I be teaching her so she 103 00:05:43.519 --> 00:05:47.879 can feel safe, strong and respected without growing up seeing 104 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:49.160 every man as a danger. 105 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:52.639 I thought that was an excellent question. I know that 106 00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:56.040 as a mother to a son, this is something I 107 00:05:56.040 --> 00:05:59.120 struggle with. I wonder if you have any advice for 108 00:05:59.199 --> 00:06:00.240 our listener. 109 00:06:00.279 --> 00:06:04.079 That's a very courageous question, and I applaud you for 110 00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:07.160 the question. And I think the most important thing that 111 00:06:07.199 --> 00:06:10.040 we can do for our daughters is to be that 112 00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:14.040 present example where I am now my daughter is fourteen. 113 00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:19.600 I think for me, it's making sure that she knows 114 00:06:19.720 --> 00:06:23.160 that what a man provides should look safe, it should 115 00:06:23.160 --> 00:06:27.480 look steady and that she's protected, that she's loved. It's 116 00:06:27.560 --> 00:06:33.040 also about how that person shows up to handle your emotions, 117 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:36.279 to handle the myriad of concerns that come to you. 118 00:06:36.839 --> 00:06:39.279 And for me, I think that one of the things 119 00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:42.800 that was most challenging was when my daughter hit puberty. 120 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:46.959 I noticed that I started to retreat because things got 121 00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:48.959 a little I'll be honest, things got a little awkward 122 00:06:49.279 --> 00:06:52.600 and I don't understand. And so for this gentleman that's 123 00:06:52.639 --> 00:06:54.720 a single father, I would just say that when that 124 00:06:54.879 --> 00:06:58.920 does come, you know, make sure that you stay engaged, 125 00:06:59.079 --> 00:07:03.959 make sure that you the attentive, that you don't get 126 00:07:04.120 --> 00:07:07.879 uncomfortable when things do change. But yet you know, you 127 00:07:07.920 --> 00:07:09.319 stay that present help to her. 128 00:07:09.639 --> 00:07:11.519 I love that, David, And you know, it really feels 129 00:07:11.560 --> 00:07:13.439 like as a father of a dult who's on the 130 00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:17.079 verge of entering her teenage years, really kind of keeping 131 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:21.439 those channels of communication open and making her feel safe 132 00:07:21.519 --> 00:07:24.800 and secure that she can come to me with anything. 133 00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:26.959 You know, it's not just like go to your mom. 134 00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:28.480 And I think that's one of the one of the 135 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:31.439 big shifts that we've seen in fatherhood is really the 136 00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:35.160 idea that you know, more men are really taking responsibility 137 00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:38.439 not just for the things that fatherhood has traditionally been 138 00:07:38.439 --> 00:07:40.639 known for, but the emotional side of things as well. 139 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:43.759 Just to just to address the question, you know, I 140 00:07:43.800 --> 00:07:46.079 think this is kind of just one of the biggest 141 00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:49.000 things that we're all trying to navigate as parents today, 142 00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:51.519 which is like, how do we raise our children to 143 00:07:51.639

--> 00:07:55.120 be just aware of what is going on in the 144 00:07:55.160 --> 00:07:58.920 world without being terrified of it. You know. It could 145 00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:02.040 be the day angels that a young woman will face 146 00:08:02.079 --> 00:08:04.360 from other men, It could be the kind of the 147 00:08:04.360 --> 00:08:08.079 climate crisis, could be political. What I often think about 148 00:08:08.079 --> 00:08:10.000 when I think about my daughter is just like, how 149 00:08:10.040 --> 00:08:16.000 do I allow her to keep that curiosity and excitement 150 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:18.360 that she has about the world and not to dampen that? 151 00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:20.240 And the job that we do as parents is to 152 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:23.040 try and help shepherd them through that path. 153 00:08:23.639 --> 00:08:25.959 Okay, moving on to our next question. It seems like 154 00:08:26.040 --> 00:08:29.000 there are an infinite number of resources for mommy meetup groups, 155 00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:32.200 but not a ton of options for fathers. I'd like 156 00:08:32.240 --> 00:08:33.559 to have more of a support group the way that 157 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:37.080 my wife does, specifically something separate from just the partners 158 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:39.679 of her friends, But I don't really know what to 159 00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:41.480 do about it. When I barely have enough time and 160 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:43.480 energy in the day to spend with my family. 161 00:08:44.039 --> 00:08:48.440 Yeah, I mean, we don't prioritize friendships and connections. It 162 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:51.039 feels like a heavy load, like we feel that we 163 00:08:51.159 --> 00:08:56.480 need to be invited to these things when everyone is 164 00:08:56.519 --> 00:08:59.399 crying out, like there's so many men are yearning for 165 00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:02.600 any kind of community, and all it takes is just 166 00:09:02.639 --> 00:09:04.879 to start something up. I holst the meet up for dads. 167 00:09:04.919 --> 00:09:07.279 It's on the third Wednesday of the month, and I 168 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:09.960 made it as low stakes as possible. I said, I 169 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:12.279 am going to go to this bar. I'm going to 170 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:15.679 bring a book. If anyone joins me, I would rather 171 00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:18.840 talk to you than read the book. But if nobody 172 00:09:18.919 --> 00:09:22.039 turns up, it's fine. And regularly now there's twenty of 173 00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:24.840 us that have connected to each other over this idea 174 00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:27.600 of a deeper, more richer sense of what fatherhood could 175 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:28.000 look like. 176 00:09:29.159 --> 00:09:31.799 I think even also how we form friendships are different, 177 00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:35.679 which I think Kevin sort of mentioned. Women. Of course, 178 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:38.679 their friendships are often face to face. Men

we're more 179 00:09:38.720 --> 00:09:41.759 so shoulder to shoulder. We have to be doing something. 180 00:09:41.799 --> 00:09:44.639 There has to be some activity, you know, a basketball 181 00:09:44.759 --> 00:09:46.879 run or a project or a group or something like that, 182 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:49.440 or even as Kevin said, you know, saying I'm going 183 00:09:49.480 --> 00:09:51.240 to meet in this bar, and what is the purpose 184 00:09:51.279 --> 00:09:53.200 of meeting in the bar? Not to talk about this 185 00:09:53.240 --> 00:09:55.600 particular topic, but we're going to have some beers and 186 00:09:55.639 --> 00:10:00.039 whatever comes up comes up, and that's perfectly fine. We 187 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:05.759 find connection not by happenstance anymore, especially when you get older. 188 00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:09.120 It has to be some intentionality. You know. It has 189 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:11.600 to be something that's scheduled, and it has to be 190 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:14.559 something that we can then defend and put some structure 191 00:10:14.600 --> 00:10:16.200 around to say, you know what, this is what I 192 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:19.000 do every Thursday with this group of people. 193 00:10:19.200 --> 00:10:22.200 And people are looking for that excuse to have these connections. 194 00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:26.279 When I talk to younger dads, there is a real 195 00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:32.279 drive to connect together in more meaningful ways, even if 196 00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:35.919 that means confronting feelings. You know, I think the all 197 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:38.159 of these men's circles that are starting to become more 198 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:40.480 and more popular now you know, I've been I've run 199 00:10:40.519 --> 00:10:42.879 a few of them myself, both online and in person, 200 00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:48.960 and they are very much not shoulder to shoulder by definition. 201 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:52.399 You know, I think this idea of men becoming more 202 00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:57.759 emotionally intelligent, emotionally resilient and finding the space to do 203 00:10:57.799 --> 00:10:59.600 it with other men who are trying to do that. 204 00:10:59.639 --> 00:11:01.919 Work to two I think is one of the biggest 205 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:05.559 shifts I've seen in fatherhood for this generation. 206 00:11:06.440 --> 00:11:09.159 So what are you waiting for? Take a quick break 207 00:11:09.159 --> 00:11:11.440 with us and text that dad vendom Daycare to schedule 208 00:11:11.480 --> 00:11:14.000 a meet up for a beer or event session, mean 209 00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:16.720 up to talk about this podcast let me come back. 210 00:11:17.039 --> 00:11:20.159 We'll talk about working through anger, dealing with parenting, stress 211 00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:26.759 in your relationship, and managing the mental load. 212 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:31.519 Every episode, if It's been a Minute, mprs What's Happening 213

00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:36.159 in Culture podcast starts by asking three questions, who, how, why? 214 00:11:36.200 --> 00:11:36.480 Now? 215 00:11:36.840 --> 00:11:39.960 If the culture's asking it, we're talking about it. At MPR, 216 00:11:40.039 --> 00:11:42.600 we stand for your right to be curious and indulge 217 00:11:42.639 --> 00:11:45.720 your cultural curiosity. Follow it's been a minute wherever you 218 00:11:45.720 --> 00:11:48.440 get your podcasts, and we'll break down the zeitgeisty topics 219 00:11:48.440 --> 00:11:49.759 that are filling your feed. 220 00:11:51.799 --> 00:11:55.279 For instant clarity on world events in just five minutes. 221 00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:59.200 Listen to NBR News Now. New episodes drop every hour 222 00:11:59.480 --> 00:12:04.799 with the l's done you as politics, international news, the economy, health, science, technology, 223 00:12:04.840 --> 00:12:07.720 and more. Five minutes is all it takes. To get 224 00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:11.559 fully caught up with NPR News Now listen on the 225 00:12:11.679 --> 00:12:14.159 NPR app or wherever you get podcasts. 226 00:12:15.559 --> 00:12:18.279 The next topic I have for you is anger. I'm 227 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:20.039 thinking about how a lot of the dads in my 228 00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:23.519 circle are determined to be better emotional role models for 229 00:12:23.559 --> 00:12:27.639 their kids, but we're raised by fathers who either didn't 230 00:12:27.639 --> 00:12:29.960 talk about their feelings or had that I'll give you 231 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:33.320 something to cry about attitude. Can we talk a little 232 00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:35.320 about why it can be so much more difficult for 233 00:12:35.399 --> 00:12:39.320 men to express their feelings generally and towards their kids specifically. 234 00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:42.519 I don't think that we were taught how we don't 235 00:12:42.519 --> 00:12:45.440 have a good example society tells us. You know, men 236 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:48.840 don't cry, men not to be strong, suck it up, 237 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:51.440 whatever it is that people say. The thing is when 238 00:12:51.440 --> 00:12:54.799 we don't have the emotional vocabulary to express how we're feeling. Instead, 239 00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:57.399 it comes out in negative behavior. You know, I don't 240 00:12:57.440 --> 00:12:59.279 know who said it, but someone once said, you act 241 00:12:59.320 --> 00:13:02.440 out what you want, talk out or cry out, and 242 00:13:02.519 --> 00:13:06.200 so it comes out instead in negative behavior and pinned 243 00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:09.679 up emotions. And so I think it's important for men 244 00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:13.879 to go through the process of developing the emotional vocabulary. 245 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:16.360 So they can speak to how they feel so that 246 00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:20.320 they can talk honestly to their children so that there's 247 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:23.399 not like

things like displacement happening. So because I can't 248 00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:25.799 tell the boss how I really feel, I'm going to 249 00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:27.559 come home and I'm going to take that out on 250 00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:30.120 you or I'm short with you because I'm upset over here. 251 00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:32.799 I'm not processing how I'm feeling over here, and that 252 00:13:32.840 --> 00:13:36.320 we could do that professionally, and we also can do 253 00:13:36.399 --> 00:13:37.519 that on our own. 254 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:38.120 You know. 255 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:40.200 For me, I'm one of those I don't get angry 256 00:13:40.600 --> 00:13:42.879 kind of guys, like, ah, I don't get angry. And 257 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:46.080 I was almost boasting to my therapists and saying, hey, 258 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:48.639 I only think I lost my temper like five times 259 00:13:48.679 --> 00:13:52.519 in the last ten years. And she said, well, what 260 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:56.320 if your kid came in and intentionally just smashed something 261 00:13:56.519 --> 00:13:59.720 of yours that you cared about, And I said, well, 262 00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:01.679 I think I would just stand up and walk away, 263 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:04.440 And she said, well, you know, why don't you tell 264 00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:07.200 them that you're feeling angry. So for me, it's been 265 00:14:07.240 --> 00:14:11.279 a real process of learning to allow myself to be 266 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:14.080 anger in a weird way. When a situation arises in 267 00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:17.519 the house and I think is anger a proportional response? 268 00:14:17.639 --> 00:14:20.679 Right now, that's a really interesting inverse. I think of 269 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:23.320 what David was saying earlier. David, I wonder if you 270 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:25.840 could tell us what does good anger? What does healthy 271 00:14:25.879 --> 00:14:26.720 anger look like? 272 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:29.399 I say to my clients all the time, Listen, if 273 00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:33.720 you can make any emotion, even if it's anxiety, if 274 00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:36.279 you can make it useful, you can keep it. Anger 275 00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:39.720 is a natural human response when lines have been crossed. 276 00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:42.720 The only question is, well, what do I then do 277 00:14:42.799 --> 00:14:45.440 with it? So if I can get it targeted, and 278 00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:48.240 if I can aim my anger at the right place 279 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:51.720 so that it actually solves my problem in a bit 280 00:14:51.759 --> 00:14:56.159 official way, as opposed to deteriorating my relationships, as opposed 281 00:14:56.200 --> 00:15:01.399 to it coming out with cynicism, with disrespect or even aggression, 282 00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:03.879 then I can keep it. Then it's been official, so 283 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:06.480 I grow from it as opposed to blowing up from it. 284 00:15:06.799 --> 00:15:09.799 Yeah, all, David, or as we all to often do, 285 00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:12.799 is turn the anger in on ourselves if we can't 286 00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:13.879 find a good place for it. 287 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:19.159 That's where guilt and shame then comes in, you know, 288 00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:21.879 where we start to get angry at ourselves. 289 00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:24.440 So anger doesn't have to be a bad thing. If 290 00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:26.759 you can understand it then use it right. 291 00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:28.919 Yeah, you pointed in the right direction. 292 00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:29.600 Okay. 293 00:15:29.799 --> 00:15:32.159 The last question I'm bringing you is from right here 294 00:15:32.200 --> 00:15:35.360 at home in San Diego. I asked my husband, a 295 00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:38.480 modern dad, what he might need some help with. His 296 00:15:38.600 --> 00:15:41.279 name is Andres Albacarte and us. He gave it a 297 00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:43.840 think and he can back up with a question about 298 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:46.799 dealing with stressful parenting situations with your partner. 299 00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:49.279 Here he is our son has been waking up all 300 00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:51.679 hours of the night screaming for his mom, even though 301 00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:53.720 just a few months back he was able to sell, 302 00:15:53.840 --> 00:15:56.639 soothe and put himself back down. We have a general 303 00:15:56.679 --> 00:15:59.600 game plan, but he keeps waking up with different wants 304 00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:02.759 and needs, and because we sometimes add to the chaos 305 00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:05.200 by disagreeing. So do you all have any strategies on 306 00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:07.519 how to quickly get on the same page with your 307 00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:09.399 partner when it's necessary to improvise. 308 00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:13.600 Well, first, Andy like to your husband, props for the 309 00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:16.679 question first up on the second one. When I was 310 00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:19.759 listening to it, my mind immediately went back to my 311 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:23.799 wedding day. Actually, and just as we were leaving, there 312 00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:25.960 was this old couple that came up to us, Just 313 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:29.279 as we were getting in the car, and I remember 314 00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:31.960 it so vividly, and they walked up to us and 315 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:34.799 they smiled, and the husband said, Hey, you're going to 316 00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:37.399 have some good times. You're going to have some bad times. 317 00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:41.720 But no matter what happens, remember this, you're on the 318 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:46.759 same team. And I think this so often with parenting, 319 00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:50.279 which is like, how do you both put yourselves on 320 00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:52.360 one side of the

table and put the problem on 321 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:55.320 the other, whether the problem is the mental load, whether 322 00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:58.320 the problem is a child that can't sleep. You know, 323 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:02.919 children not sleeping is a particular flavor of problem because 324 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:10.200 everything is exacerbated when we haven't had our seven hours. Yeah, 325 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:13.240 it's so much worse, and we're snappy with each other, 326 00:17:13.759 --> 00:17:16.119 and that kind of resentment build. You're like, I did 327 00:17:16.119 --> 00:17:18.559 this last night, and I was up three nights and 328 00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:21.359 all these things, and I think, just to get to 329 00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:23.640 the place where you go, hey, you know, we're on 330 00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:25.799 the same side. Here is the best way that we 331 00:17:25.880 --> 00:17:28.519 can support each other to be able to get there. 332 00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:30.319 But you know, I feel for you. 333 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:33.880 Very courageous question, especially for your husband to ask it 334 00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:40.240 in your own workplace takes courage. Rights. As Kevin said, 335 00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:44.880 it will get better okay, but while you're in the 336 00:17:44.920 --> 00:17:48.720 process of getting better, I want you to understand that 337 00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:52.279 your child, even taking you all through this level of conflict, 338 00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:57.680 is a gift that he's giving you, because oftentimes the 339 00:17:57.720 --> 00:18:00.720 real argument that we have when we're raising children is 340 00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:04.839 not about the child. It's really about two childhoods colliding, 341 00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:08.519 your childhood and his childhood. You know, we all walk 342 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:11.720 into marriage carrying our own script from our own family 343 00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:14.480 of origin and how things should be done, and we 344 00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:18.359 either walk in enacting it or we walk in rebelling 345 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:22.440 against it. And so we're not really fighting or navigating, 346 00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:27.039 you know, bedtime strategies. We're really fighting against two histories. 347 00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:30.599 And to say it plainly, you know, we're parenting our 348 00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:33.319 own wounds. I want you all to see this as 349 00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:36.880 a gift because it's going to allow you to talk 350 00:18:36.920 --> 00:18:39.920 through some of your histories and some of your stuff 351 00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:42.920 that you're bringing into the marriage that is now showing 352 00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:45.880 up differently because now this human is involved. 353 00:18:46.599 --> 00:18:49.640 Ooh, that was a good answer. Yeah, I felt that 354 00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:51.880 one too. I really felt that

one kind of have 355 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:53.839 for one thing, that one thing I heard from a 356 00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:55.839 gree a few years ago, and I really liked this 357 00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:57.920 as they said, you know, rather than kind of like 358 00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:01.519 decide who does what, they gave themselves till so one 359 00:19:01.559 --> 00:19:04.720 parent was secretary for education, so they looked after everything 360 00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:07.880 to do with school. Wow. And one parent was secretary 361 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:10.640 of finance. A secretary of commerce is the person who 362 00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:12.880 does all the shopping. So they gave themselves these titles. 363 00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:15.880 So if there is kind of like secretary of bedtimes 364 00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:18.240 and you just decide like, hey, you know what, I'm 365 00:19:18.279 --> 00:19:21.759 secretary of bedtimes, I'm the kind of key decision maker 366 00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:24.599 as it comes to this. And I think like even 367 00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:26.480 that language it just makes it a little bit playful 368 00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:27.960 and it kind of takes this thing out of it 369 00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:30.599 a little bit, but it does provide like this distinct 370 00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:34.079 kind of roles and responsibilities across different aspects of the house. 371 00:19:34.279 --> 00:19:37.599 Well, co opting immediately, that's what we're doing. That's what 372 00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:42.200 we're doing tonight. Absolutely, that was good. All right, let's 373 00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:45.279 recap what we talked about. Being a dad today can 374 00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:47.960 be a bit of a mixed bag. An increasing number 375 00:19:47.960 --> 00:19:51.000 of husbands and fathers enjoy being more involved in the 376 00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:55.039 home and in childcare than ever before. That's great, but 377 00:19:55.359 --> 00:19:58.720 those roles can also be particularly isolating and hard to 378 00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:01.400 manage when you have your models to look to and 379 00:20:01.680 --> 00:20:04.519 less built in community around the burden of those responsibilities. 380 00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:07.400 The more we continue to talk about these dynamics and 381 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:10.319 our desire for them to change, the better off will 382 00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:12.960 all be. So if you're feeling starved for authentic connection 383 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:18.359 or seeking to expand your emotional vocabulary, know that you 384 00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:22.079 are not the only dad by far where people are 385 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:23.799 out there and they want to talk to you. To 386 00:20:24.359 --> 00:20:27.519 one place to start, Kevin created iral meetup groups in 387 00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:31.799 a bunch of different cities through his online community Modern Fatherhood. Finally, 388 00:20:32.279 --> 00:20:34.839 remember to take each day at a time. We all 389 00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:38.599 bring our own scripts from our past, our families, our parents, 390 00:20:38.599 --> 00:20:42.519 our dads into our own parenting styles, and then we 391 00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:46.000 either enact them or push against them. So good on 392 00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:48.359 you for taking the time to have a thing today 393 00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:49.640 about which path you're taking. 394 00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:56.039 That was life GIT reporter Andy Tagle talking with David 395 00:20:56.079 --> 00:21:00.440 Dafoe and Kevin maguire. Happy Father's Day and special thanks 396 00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:04.480 to dads Rob tad On andres Alva Cardiness and Josh 397 00:21:04.519 --> 00:21:07.920 Babin for contributing their thoughts and questions to this story, 398 00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:10.359 and to all the husbands and dads who wrote to 399 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:12.680 us about the mental load. We'd love to hear your 400 00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:15.400 thoughts on the episode too. This episode of Life Kit 401 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:18.720 was produced by Sylvie Douglas. It was edited by Brent Bachman. 402 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:22.119 Our digital editor is Malica garib and our visuals editor 403 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:25.680 is c. J. Ricalon. Megan Kane is our senior supervising editor, 404 00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:29.039 and Lauren Gonzalez is our executive producer. Our production team 405 00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:32.920 also includes Claire Marie Schneider and Margaret Serino. Engineering support 406 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:35.759 comes from Peter Elena. I'm mariel Sagara. 407 00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:43.559 Thanks for listening. This week. 408 00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:45.480 On Wait Wait, Don't Tell Me, we ask comedy legend 409 00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:48.480 Robert Smigel about the moment he first knew he was funny. 410 00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:50.920 When I was like four or five, I could draw 411 00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:55.039 really well, so I could draw Fred Flintstone and Snoopy, 412 00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:58.240 and then probably a couple of years later I started 413 00:21:58.319 --> 00:21:59.519 drawing them having sex. 414 00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:03.400 Listen to the Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me podcast and 415 00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:06.039 the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. 416 00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:11.039 On NPR's Wildcard podcast, author Dave Eggers shares the advice 417 00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:12.759 he gives young people about AI. 418 00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:16.200 You are one of one unprecedented in the history of 419 00:22:16.279 --> 00:22:17.079 human evolution. 420 00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:17.960 There's only one of. 421 00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:21.119 You, so to give your voice to a machine to 422 00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:25.640 say speak for me, is such a crime against yourself. 423 00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:28.400 Watch or listen to that Wildcard conversation on the NPR 424 00:22:28.440 --> 00:22:31.000 app or on YouTube at NPR Wildcard