התמלול המלא של Episode 285 - Googlebook Arrives, Gemini Gems Ends

--> 04:32.411 We like Google. That is the dumbest idea I've ever heard. 04:32.476 --> 04:36.383 Mark! You need 04:36.416 --> 04:39.155 to take that AI Josh out and— All right, all right, no more AI Josh. 04:39.204 --> 04:40.647 Put him down. I saw your lips move. 04:44.900 --> 04:48.779 Speaking of moving, if you want to move your app data into real impact in 04:49.279 --> 04:53.432 your school district, you should check out Lightspeed Systems, their Insight product. 04:53.560 --> 04:56.335 If you're wanting to get a grip and look at real data with your screen 04:56.368 --> 04:59.680 time, with what app usage looks like, check that out. You can 05:00.180 --> 05:03.887 go to lightspeedsystems.com, click under products, click on Insight. I think we'll get 05:04.387 --> 05:07.640 to unpack that more, I'd say in a couple weeks or a month. I'm using 05:07.752 --> 05:10.960 Insight in my school district now. We can dig 05:11.460 --> 05:13.429 into what that looks like. And just any tool in general that you can get 05:13.929 --> 05:17.503 some insight into your screen time data usage is a good thing. But Lightspeed has 05:17.519 --> 05:21.191 that solution. Check that out. You know, around that screen 05:21.223 --> 05:25.040 time discussion, I think if you're in one of those areas, 05:25.136 --> 05:29.017 one of those states that has a propensity to try and legislate 05:29.065 --> 05:32.177 this or did it last session and maybe they're looking at doing it 05:32.209 --> 05:35.736 this session, I think It's an easy conversation to have in your 05:36.236 --> 05:39.551 district about getting in front of that and knowing what 05:39.567 --> 05:43.494 your current screen time is. How can 05:43.994 --> 05:46.556 you make a change or how can you drive change if you don't know where 05:47.056 --> 05:50.708 you are now? And I think that's kind of where you're standing with 05:51.208 --> 05:54.667 this, doing this demo, is trying to figure out 05:54.972 --> 05:58.466 where you are. Because, you know, everybody can have feelings. Like, our teachers 05:58.483 --> 06:01.786 have feelings that we don't use that much screen time. Our screen time's 06:02.286 --> 06:05.875 less than an hour or whatever is the feeling. But what does the data 06:06.375 --> 06:10.782 really show? And I think those 2 things have 06:11.282 --> 06:14.680 to align. And maybe it's 06:15.016 --> 06:18.994 the reality of it isn't what the feelings are being 06:19.106 --> 06:22.426 felt. I don't know. Yeah, my full transparency on us 06:22.538 --> 06:25.649 even using it, I don't know if we're going to long game use it. 06:25.842 --> 06:29.079 Like 2 years from now, 3 years from now, maybe we will. 06:29.749 --> 06:33.263 Sure. But my district, we've done a lot of talking about how much 06:33.375 --> 06:36.565 we use particular apps and how much screen time. If there's 06:37.065 --> 06:39.113 a building that's like, I use it less or I'm using it more, all those 06:39.145 --> 06:42.111 kinds of changes, we need to know what we're talking about. 06:42.656 --> 06:46.166 Just today we had a leadership meeting and I got to share the average 06:46.663 --> 06:49.612 screen time. And again, you're getting a kindergarten kid with a 12th grader mixed in 06:49.644 --> 06:53.331 together and just a month's worth of data. So we need more time on that 06:53.831 --> 06:57.280 too. Yeah, we got to have data to support— a good decision is 06:57.780 --> 06:59.688 going to be based upon some data, so that's what we need to do. 07:00.298 --> 07:03.991 Well, and that in everybody, in the mindset of 07:04.491 --> 07:07.925 everybody having financial issues, you have that conversation 07:08.425 --> 07:12.662 of, okay, if the elementary school really is sub-20 minutes 07:12.822 --> 07:16.178 average in a day, do they need a cart 07:16.275 --> 07:19.822 in every room, or do they need to be 1-to-1? Is that a 07:20.322 --> 07:24.583 good allocation of dollars on a refresh cycle if 07:24.871 --> 07:28.189 you can prove that they're only using those devices 20 minutes a day? 07:28.863 --> 07:32.501 I think that's a very valid conversation, especially now that we're starting to— 07:32.966 --> 07:35.579 the pendulum has swung, money is scarce again. 07:36.733 --> 07:40.147 We're gonna have those conversations with refresh cycles of what are 07:40.323 --> 07:43.914 we gonna buy and what aren't we going to buy. I think this is 07:44.587 --> 07:48.241 an easy way to help drive that conversation. Agree. Mark agrees. 07:48.337 --> 07:52.327 He's shaking his head. Agreed. All right, Mark, you want to bring the news 07:52.584 --> 07:56.205 with us? Yeah. So I guess we could start with 07:56.705 --> 08:00.500 more of a programmatic message. We have been talking 08:00.516 --> 08:03.416 about this and we've decided we are no longer going to be talking as a 08:03.916 --> 08:07.246 podcast about artificial intelligence. In fact, this is the last 08:07.746 --> 08:11.332 time I'm even going to mention artificial intelligence because it is 08:11.832 --> 08:15.520 officially called superintelligence now. Facts. Facts. Can we give 08:16.020 --> 08:19.441 it an acronym too? What would you like to call it? I'm sticking with the 08:19.941 --> 08:22.879 OG. I'm sticking with A1. All right, you go for that. 08:23.795 --> 08:26.527 All right, let's switch over to Google right now. So we've got a couple of 08:27.027 --> 08:30.849 big technical updates from Google. So the first hint of what Chromebook 08:31.090 --> 08:34.256 OS, it's called a Googlebook OS. Is that what we're calling it? 08:34.304 --> 08:37.919 What's the official name here? I don't know. Googlebook. 08:38.498 --> 08:42.041 Googlebook. I feel like I'm going to keep calling it 08:42.541 --> 08:46.032 a Chromebook. I think I'll stick with OG as well. We have 08:46.532 --> 08:49.318 all agreed that it doesn't matter what you call it. Our kids and teachers are 08:49.818 --> 08:53.085 going to call it a Chromebook forever. But

Google Book 08:53.165 --> 08:57.012 is coming in. I didn't realize this. It is coming out for personal consumer 08:57.512 --> 09:01.500 use within the next year, actually very soon. So it is important to note 09:02.000 --> 09:05.699 that just because you see Google Books on the street for personal use does not 09:05.827 --> 09:09.402 mean that they are going to be ready for school districts to be used. 09:10.155 --> 09:13.807 Districts will have the ability to kind of set parameters as to 09:14.064 --> 09:17.636 do you want to allow staff to log into a Google Book device. 09:18.710 --> 09:21.978 But then the actual management console controls 09:22.074 --> 09:25.230 will come about a year from now in the second half of 2027. 09:25.310 --> 09:28.450 So look for those controls to come out a year from now. 09:29.364 --> 09:32.087 In the meantime, it is simply going to be a consumer device. 09:33.064 --> 09:36.397 In terms of your existing Chromebooks or ChromeOS devices, 09:36.493 --> 09:40.162 they are going to continue to be supported. For the lifetime of those 09:40.178 --> 09:43.641 devices that you currently have. Devices that are purchased today will be 09:44.141 --> 09:46.334 supported for approximately 10 years. 09:47.151 --> 09:50.421 Beyond 2034, 2035, 09:50.453 --> 09:54.156 Google is saying that they're committed to supporting the transition over to Google Book 09:54.204 --> 09:57.891 OS. So devices that you purchase today or within the last 09:58.391 --> 10:01.449 few years will likely be compatible with Google Book. 10:02.379 --> 10:05.905 Devices that are older than that, maybe, you know, 5, 10 years ago, 10:06.643 --> 10:10.285 that you purchase them, they'll continue to run until their expected lifespan, 10:10.574 --> 10:14.745 at which point they will no longer receive updates. So that's essentially 10:15.245 --> 10:18.403 the transition that we have right now. This is going to be a long, 10:18.676 --> 10:22.173 slow transition for the devices that you currently have. I can 10:22.205 --> 10:26.039 buy right now, I can buy an Acer Googlebook 10:26.681 --> 10:30.612 14-inch Intel Core Ultra 10:31.112 --> 10:35.484 5 series 16 gig of RAM, 512 gig storage 10:36.077 --> 10:38.865 for $899 at Best Buy and pick it up Monday. 10:39.425 --> 10:42.710 Go for it. That's the consumer-grade version. It looks like 10:43.210 --> 10:46.683 it's a convertible device. So it looks like it might be touchscreen as well as— 10:46.971 --> 10:51.393 Is there going to be cheaper ones? There's going to have to be cheaper 10:51.893 --> 10:55.399 ones. Otherwise, the MacBook Neo will eat the lunch. 10:55.687 --> 10:58.811 Because that's the low end, right? I think $899 is the 10:59.311 --> 11:01.875 low. Then it goes $1,299. Oh, there's a $999. 11:02.272 --> 11:05.886 I'd be willing to try this. 12, 10. If somebody bought it 11:06.386 --> 11:10.207 for me. I don't know. I'm all in on Android right now. We're an Android 11:10.707 --> 11:14.287 house. So this appeals to me. The whole house? Well, 11:14.560 --> 11:17.901 I mean, yeah. My wife uses 11:17.949 --> 11:21.515 a Pixel phone. I use a Pixel phone. I think your wife, she only does 11:21.531 --> 11:25.386 that for you. Yeah. No, she tried. She don't want that Android. 11:25.755 --> 11:29.321 No, she tried to migrate to an iPhone and she hated 11:29.821 --> 11:33.423 it. She took it back. I don't believe it. But, well— I had my wife 11:33.923 --> 11:36.616 on an Android. It was a rough period in our marriage. I got her on 11:36.954 --> 11:38.180 iPhone and we're good. We're good now. 11:40.850 --> 11:44.746 And Josh's wife is, we recently learned on a previous episode 11:45.246 --> 11:48.142 that Josh's wife, who has been a teacher for a long time, had never made 11:48.642 --> 11:51.573 a slideshow before. No. Still has not. Still has not. 11:51.734 --> 11:55.346 Still has not made a slideshow. Yeah, Jim and I did that. So she surprises 11:55.378 --> 11:58.361 me sometimes. Yeah, for sure. For sure. 11:59.960 --> 12:04.200 Transparency. Transparency. She's always taught kindergarten or pre-K. 12:04.894 --> 12:07.600 She's got an Android, but she's never made a slideshow? Hmm. 12:08.545 --> 12:12.082 Yeah. Okay. Sounds like an Android user to me. 12:15.037 --> 12:18.194 Okay, give your email again. Send the hate mail to Chris. 12:18.741 --> 12:21.576 Email info@k12techtalkpodcast.com. 12:22.075 --> 12:23.927 Subject line, Android haters. 12:27.757 --> 12:31.548 Anyways, I'll take a Google Book. I like them. They look slick. 12:32.014 --> 12:35.162 Acer, you want to send them to us? Send them on over. I did not 12:35.662 --> 12:41.009 mean for this to be the hate on Google episode, but our 12:41.186 --> 12:45.844 next article is that Google has killed off Google Gems just 12:46.344 --> 12:48.960 in time to finish up the summer PD schedule, which I got to go back 12:49.460 --> 12:52.735 and apologize. All the districts that I just taught how to use Gems this summer. 12:53.793 --> 12:57.175 Gems will be discontinued. They will be migrated into 12:57.336 --> 13:00.990 skills. Now, this is actually what I'm excited about. Skills, if you're not familiar 13:01.490 --> 13:04.661 with a skill, it's kind of like the recipe part of a gem. It is 13:04.837 --> 13:08.316 already in use in ChatGPT and Claude. And so now Google is adopting 13:08.816 --> 13:12.468 the same protocol. Essentially, you are writing your skills or your 13:12.968 --> 13:17.036 instructions in a markdown file, and you can bring that between the different protocols or 13:17.536 --> 13:20.979 different systems. And then you can use that skill. The same way you would use 13:21.479 --> 13:25.371 a gem. The one caveat though is a gem currently is like a sandboxed 13:25.871 --> 13:29.443 environment if you're familiar with how gems work. And they have been very popular with 13:29.459 --> 13:33.113 teachers who want to use AI with students in a controlled 13:33.145 --> 13:36.496 way. So you

could, the teacher could write the instructions for 13:36.996 --> 13:39.477 the gem, share that out to their classroom, and the students would only be able 13:39.541 --> 13:42.811 to use the gem the way the teachers did it. It's not quite how skills 13:42.907 --> 13:46.931 work. Like I said, the skill is simply just the recipe part of the 13:46.995 --> 13:50.623 gem. So if you are a teacher using Gems, or if you're 13:51.123 --> 13:55.311 in Google Workspace Education, you have until June of 2027, 13:55.600 --> 13:58.892 which is very nice of Google to continue that through the rest of the 13:59.392 --> 14:02.698 year. Consumer accounts, Gems will be going away in the next 14:02.746 --> 14:06.326 month or so, around November, and then in March 14:06.342 --> 14:10.003 for Workplace Workspace Business accounts. So at least 14:10.035 --> 14:13.374 they recognize that let's get this to the end of the school year. But I 14:13.406 --> 14:16.500 would say at this point, once you hear the message that gems is going away, 14:16.709 --> 14:19.995 you're not really going to get too invested in showing your 14:20.495 --> 14:24.563 district how to use them or create new ones. So skills coming soon. I like 14:25.063 --> 14:28.747 the idea that they're going to align with the other big 14:29.132 --> 14:32.739 models that are using the word skills as that functionality. 14:33.204 --> 14:36.394 I think that just helps with communication. 14:37.211 --> 14:40.914 Yeah, for sure. In terms of how this actually plays out, how you're 14:41.414 --> 14:44.761 able to manage in these and create and manage them, you can, if you look 14:45.261 --> 14:48.347 in your consumer account now, you can see what gems look like. But obviously, 14:48.395 --> 14:51.251 this is going to be very interesting to see how this works with enterprise management, 14:51.690 --> 14:55.052 the ability for a district to build a skill and then push that out to 14:55.552 --> 14:58.787 the teachers. I'm kind of excited about the prospects of that. 2 things for me. 14:59.305 --> 15:02.362 Email fortinet@fortinetpodcast@fortinet.com, 15:02.394 --> 15:05.548 and then also check out Managed Methods. In a couple weeks, we're going to do 15:06.048 --> 15:09.151 an interview with Skip over at Managed to talk about a new product that they 15:09.167 --> 15:12.253 have coming out. But I guess the third thing, Gems to me, 15:12.414 --> 15:15.573 I never really got into them. And it was kind of that thing like Mark, 15:15.685 --> 15:19.599 especially you would talk about how good it was. But just hearing 15:19.615 --> 15:23.255 the word gem didn't unpack for me, oh, I should dig into that 15:23.755 --> 15:27.457 and use that. But you barely talk about skills. So if this is a rebranding 15:27.553 --> 15:30.985 shift a little bit too, like, I don't know, for people like me that 15:31.258 --> 15:34.481 I just need like an easy word to know what I'm going to like potentially 15:34.545 --> 15:37.904 get into with this, with the superintelligence. I'm going to 15:38.404 --> 15:41.925 know what Skills is kind of getting me into. So I guess I can appreciate 15:42.729 --> 15:45.834 Google seeing early on, hey, we need to make a little pivot here. Maybe they 15:45.850 --> 15:48.715 weren't getting the usage that they thought. They see something that's better. So I can 15:49.150 --> 15:52.580 go for that. Completely agree with everything you've said. Yes. 15:54.239 --> 15:57.276 All right. And then finally, 15:57.535 --> 15:59.986 2 topics that we're probably going to have to come back to. What else you 16:00.486 --> 16:02.680 got, Mark? Well, I would say I hope we don't have to come back to 16:03.180 --> 16:06.343 these 2 things. Hazel Health is a telehealth company 16:06.843 --> 16:10.658 that specifically caters to school districts. They're in about 19 states and they're in 16:10.674 --> 16:14.267 many of the large, large districts. They provide telehealth services. 16:14.380 --> 16:18.358 So basically any sort of nursing 16:18.550 --> 16:21.855 or e-health services that a school district may want to provide to 16:21.903 --> 16:24.534 students is provided at no cost to families. 16:25.047 --> 16:28.608 Unfortunately, it appears that they have suffered a breach. The ransomware 16:28.720 --> 16:31.832 group Direwolf has listed Hazel Health on their website, 16:31.929 --> 16:36.166 although Hazel Health themselves have not acknowledged this. So they have not confirmed 16:36.519 --> 16:40.118 the claim, nor have they sent any messages to their customers. So this 16:40.618 --> 16:44.150 will be very interesting to see what happens. Obviously, this is a very, very sensitive 16:44.650 --> 16:47.540 subject when you're talking about telehealth and the amount of information or data that could 16:48.040 --> 16:51.299 be potentially compromised in this situation. The other one, 16:51.363 --> 16:55.122 which we do know is a confirmed breach, unfortunately, is Frontline. 16:55.540 --> 16:59.396 Frontline, if you're not familiar with that company, they provide a lot of staff-related 16:59.896 --> 17:04.277 services in terms of hiring, substitute management evaluation 17:04.309 --> 17:07.518 type services, uh, and in an edtech platform. 17:08.080 --> 17:11.915 We don't have a lot of details for this breach other than the letters that 17:12.415 --> 17:15.863 have been shared by school districts. It appears to be that this is related to 17:16.363 --> 17:19.811 some staff data. It may or may not be limited to one or two 17:19.859 --> 17:23.245 modules. Frontline is kind of like a, 17:23.630 --> 17:27.096 a PowerSchool type company where they have bought multiple other 17:27.596 --> 17:30.917 products and merged them into one. And so it's very possible that this breach only 17:30.949 --> 17:34.867 impacted one of those modules. But like I said, this is 17:35.367 --> 17:38.897 a company that provides a lot of different edtech products or modules 17:38.993 --> 17:42.493 around

employee management. And so the potential for this 17:42.509 --> 17:45.624 one is, is, is pretty catastrophic if 17:45.640 --> 17:49.558 this breach is as far-reaching as all of their platforms go. So we'll be 17:50.058 --> 17:53.187 watching that one very carefully, and maybe we might have to bring on Michael Klein 17:53.687 --> 17:57.039 in the next couple of weeks to talk about this? Yeah, that notification went 17:57.104 --> 18:00.153 out this afternoon around 2 o'clock Central Time. 18:00.490 --> 18:04.294 My district did not get that notification. We only use 18:04.326 --> 18:07.840 the applicant part of that, you know, applying for jobs. 18:08.113 --> 18:12.318 I know, I know another district that only uses the absence management 18:12.447 --> 18:16.443 piece of it. They did not get the alert, but districts 18:16.943 --> 18:21.040 that use other modules including TimeClock Um, 18:21.168 --> 18:25.233 substitute management, that kind of stuff. They did get the alert. So I 18:25.733 --> 18:28.350 don't know, I, I kind of felt left out that we didn't get the alert, 18:28.447 --> 18:32.007 but that's probably— Josh feels very left out. 18:32.492 --> 18:36.050 Probably. I do. I, 18:36.519 --> 18:40.253 I have FOMO. I have FOMO. I really wanted 18:40.753 --> 18:44.559 that letter. So we'll see what's, what's going on with this one. Uh, we obviously 18:45.475 --> 18:48.801 do not need yet another breach. I would say if Frontline, if the, 18:48.929 --> 18:52.681 if the Totality of frontline has been breached and impacted, 18:52.793 --> 18:57.273 we're looking at a pretty significant situation at, or if 18:57.289 --> 19:00.886 not larger than the ones we've seen in the past. So I'm 19:00.902 --> 19:04.322 very curious to see what happens here. But like I said, just breaking, 19:04.499 --> 19:07.132 well, it'll take us another week or so to find out what's actually happening. 19:07.469 --> 19:11.098 Yeah, that the blast radius on this potentially 19:11.598 --> 19:14.888 is massive. Massive. Okay, so I think 19:14.952 --> 19:18.806 we're gonna jump into— we've been hanging out with Lumu 19:19.306 --> 19:21.794 for the last several weeks. They are a proud sponsor of the K-12 Tech Talk 19:21.859 --> 19:25.457 podcast, and I got to sit down with one of their customers to unpack 19:25.473 --> 19:28.686 Lumu, unpack cybersecurity. There's some pretty good and general 19:29.186 --> 19:32.654 thoughts of the state of K-12 cybersecurity and why we should be looking at 19:32.767 --> 19:36.895 more advanced tools in our school districts. So this is an interview with 19:36.959 --> 19:40.542 Lumu, and thanks for listening. Okay, I am hanging 19:40.638 --> 19:43.899 out with Michael Marassa. Michael, how's it going? It's good. How are 19:44.012 --> 19:47.512 you today, Chris? I'm good. So, uh, you use Lumu. 19:47.785 --> 19:50.611 We're gonna dig into that in just a couple minutes, but, uh, we were quick 19:51.111 --> 19:54.770 unpacking. You have some Chicago ties, I think. So I think let's just take 19:55.270 --> 19:58.543 a half a step back. Just tell us about yourself, a little 19:59.043 --> 20:02.863 bit about your background. Do you like Chicago-style hot dogs, Italian beef? 20:03.280 --> 20:06.989 Uh, that, that— Oh yeah, we can get, we can get all into, to Chicago 20:07.489 --> 20:10.971 for sure. So Chris, just a little bit about me. Um, I was 20:11.244 --> 20:14.359 in the field of education for 33 years. Uh, 20:14.520 --> 20:17.937 I started as a middle school 20:18.050 --> 20:21.161 teacher. You know, most people don't start in technology, 20:21.257 --> 20:26.228 and when I started in education in 1993, 20:26.324 --> 20:29.740 technology was really just kind of starting. 20:30.237 --> 20:34.166 I remember being a middle school teacher, and we 20:34.182 --> 20:38.030 had a couple of Mac IIe labs that our students could go 20:38.174 --> 20:41.927 into to do some, you know, some simple exercises. 20:41.991 --> 20:46.011 Nice. And then, It just so happened that the technology director 20:46.044 --> 20:50.117 in 1996 selected me and 20-plus 20:50.149 --> 20:53.711 other teachers out of 800 to get a desktop 20:54.211 --> 20:57.253 computer for our classroom. I have no idea why I was selected, 20:57.269 --> 21:01.258 Chris, but I was picked. I was the only middle school teacher 21:01.484 --> 21:04.148 in my building who got a computer. 21:06.229 --> 21:09.646 And probably the most advantageous thing of 21:10.166 --> 21:13.931 of receiving that, Chris, was, uh, I got a, I got a 21:14.431 --> 21:18.658 gradebook program that allowed me to, uh, to automate 21:19.158 --> 21:22.888 my scoring, uh, so when I needed to, to enter grades, 21:22.984 --> 21:26.108 I could put it all into a software system and it did all the work 21:26.608 --> 21:30.450 for me. Crazy. And crazy, right? Like, because we were using these things 21:30.530 --> 21:33.350 called slide rules and writing things in a book, 21:34.119 --> 21:37.436 uh, and it was all manual, and this just automated things for me. 21:37.500 --> 21:41.029 And then of course You know, the internet started to roll around. 21:41.254 --> 21:45.057 Um, where I was based was the home of kind of one 21:45.557 --> 21:49.182 of the early internet browsers called Netscape Navigator that was 21:49.535 --> 21:53.306 rolled out, uh, by the University of Illinois. And so, 21:53.932 --> 21:57.543 um, I just took some classes, uh, that a lot of 21:58.043 --> 22:01.378 other tech directors who wanted to get like a certification 22:01.892 --> 22:04.909 went through, and that was kind of like the start of my journey. 22:06.543 --> 22:10.148 And I got offered a job to work for the state, and my school district 22:10.648 --> 22:13.000 said, hey, we were thinking about creating a job for you. 22:13.817 --> 22:17.518 And like a half hour later, a job got posted, and I didn't leave 22:18.018 --> 22:22.100 that district for 5 years and started working in technology leadership

22:22.180 --> 22:25.897 for another 5 years before opportunities 22:26.154 --> 22:30.015 in Chicago came along. And I worked in Chicago 22:30.640 --> 22:34.597 technology leadership for a couple different school districts. I just, 22:35.240 --> 22:38.739 Retired, as I said, a couple of months ago. 22:39.530 --> 22:42.836 I was on the board— Congratulations to that. Yeah, thanks. I was on 22:43.336 --> 22:47.797 the board for our Illinois COSN chapter and 22:47.990 --> 22:51.468 did a lot of thought leadership, have done a lot of speaking and 22:51.968 --> 22:54.334 presenting on a myriad of things. 22:55.558 --> 22:58.957 And so I look forward to our conversation today, 22:59.021 --> 23:02.824 Chris. So you didn't answer my hot dog. Like, are you a Chicago-style hot dog 23:03.324 --> 23:06.741 guy? Are you into Italian beef? If you're a Chicago guy, I mean, 23:07.077 --> 23:10.586 Chicago hot dogs are a unique thing 23:11.083 --> 23:14.704 and everybody has their favorite place. Of course, I'm a fan of a 23:15.204 --> 23:19.078 Portillo's hot dog. Yep. I don't need the sport peppers on there, 23:19.190 --> 23:22.282 but everything else on there I'm gonna eat. I don't need ketchup on it, 23:22.298 --> 23:25.455 but I will put mustard on there. And of course, 23:25.823 --> 23:29.733 an Italian beef, or as we call it, I love a combo sandwich in 23:29.765 --> 23:33.418 Chicago, which is Italian beef and Italian 23:33.514 --> 23:36.690 sausage. with some like sweet peppers on it. 23:37.525 --> 23:41.232 I think I've done that maybe once. So I was just— it's 23:41.732 --> 23:44.523 a long story short, I was just in Chicago, brought my son there for a 23:45.023 --> 23:48.455 concert, literally dropped him off so he could go do the concert. 23:48.856 --> 23:52.146 And then I went— and what was the place you just said 23:52.646 --> 23:55.950 again? I went to Portillo's, which is a chain in Chicago. Yeah, that's where I 23:56.062 --> 23:59.529 went. So funny. So literally dropped him off 24:00.029 --> 24:03.285 at the show. I went to a restaurant, got an Italian beef sandwich, ate that 24:03.785 --> 24:05.693 thing in my car, waited for the show to be over, picked him up kind 24:06.193 --> 24:09.001 of thing. You got asked a lot of questions about your Italian beef too, 24:09.081 --> 24:12.388 right? Like, do you want it dry? Do you want it dipped? Do you want 24:12.888 --> 24:16.193 it like soaked? Right? Like a little bit intimidating if you're not used 24:16.225 --> 24:20.527 to it. It is. Yeah. But delicious nonetheless. 1000% delicious. 24:20.640 --> 24:24.172 Yeah. Okay. So you use Lumu, uh, or you used to 24:24.672 --> 24:26.853 use Lumu, uh, and that's what we want to talk a little bit about today. 24:27.462 --> 24:31.435 And again, I guess to take that half step back, what problem were you trying 24:31.467 --> 24:35.345 to solve when you first started looking into Lumu? Well, I think, Chris, 24:35.457 --> 24:39.030 it starts for me, like I saw what was starting to happen 24:39.783 --> 24:43.644 to, you know, every industry, right? Like it didn't 24:44.144 --> 24:47.297 matter if it was K-12, higher ed, finance, 24:47.409 --> 24:49.444 banking, you know, healthcare, 24:50.774 --> 24:54.667 people were getting hit with cyberattacks, right? Like starting in 2019, 24:54.683 --> 24:58.320 I remember vividly, Um, a school district 24:58.820 --> 25:03.336 not far from Chicago called Rockford, um, had a major ransomware 25:03.836 --> 25:07.726 attack, and like their technology was down for 3 months. Can you imagine 25:07.758 --> 25:11.524 being a teacher in this day and age and not having your 25:12.024 --> 25:15.081 laptop and having availability to do what you do every day? 25:15.674 --> 25:18.862 Right. For, for more than, for more than a couple of days, 25:18.959 --> 25:22.307 right? Like, we, our teachers get freaked out when we have an 25:22.420 --> 25:25.545 internet outage, right? Like, Comcast or AT&T 25:26.045 --> 25:29.312 goes offline and people are like, how long is this going to be? When's this 25:29.812 --> 25:32.822 going to be done? And Rockford got knocked out for like 3 months. 25:33.784 --> 25:37.326 Um, and certainly being a part of my COSIN chapter, 25:38.031 --> 25:41.461 um, and hearing stories of what was happening to peers, 25:42.199 --> 25:45.677 uh, it just made cybersecurity like something you just had to 25:46.177 --> 25:49.668 stay on top of. Um, and being that the— this last 25:50.168 --> 25:54.034 school district that I worked for was in my mind somebody that 25:54.082 --> 25:57.826 was a high-profile target. Even though we are a small 25:58.436 --> 26:02.199 school district, we are a name brand. Like, we are a marquee. 26:02.521 --> 26:06.080 Like, if you were to take us down in ransomware attack 26:06.145 --> 26:08.448 or, you know, have some kind of data breach, 26:10.344 --> 26:14.069 it would be front-page news in Chicago 26:14.150 --> 26:18.559 and probably nationally because we're just a really successful 26:18.835 --> 26:23.435 academic institution. And so, I always took cybersecurity 26:23.548 --> 26:27.523 really seriously and always 26:27.700 --> 26:30.986 would listen to and hear about 26:31.486 --> 26:34.737 more solutions because the adversary 26:34.769 --> 26:38.280 is always changing and adapting, right? Yeah. Like, this is their— we know 26:38.360 --> 26:40.861 that, like, the adversary, this is their full-time gig. 26:42.288 --> 26:46.183 And even though I might get a solution that handles this, 26:46.713 --> 26:50.837 I had to be— I was looking at what was protecting my 26:50.885 --> 26:54.721 student devices. And I really did— we were a 1-to-1 iPad district. 26:54.978 --> 26:58.893 We didn't have a solution for— it would just be too expensive 26:59.393 --> 27:02.023 to buy a solution for iPads, at least so we thought. 27:02.905 --> 27:06.934 And then we have all these IoT devices that are on our network, 27:06.950 --> 27:10.609 right? I get

a lot of additional things that are on our network 27:11.109 --> 27:14.704 that don't have any kind of protection on them. And as I started 27:15.204 --> 27:18.543 to do my research on Lumu, you know, 27:18.640 --> 27:22.536 their model, one, was cost-effective, and two, 27:23.965 --> 27:27.580 they allowed us to do a proof of concept 27:27.757 --> 27:31.115 to validate, like, how the product would work and how it could 27:31.615 --> 27:34.779 protect my environment for any 27:34.891 --> 27:37.865 device, right, that is communicating within my network. 27:38.411 --> 27:41.516 And even for these student devices, when these student 27:42.016 --> 27:45.766 devices were going home, And so certainly I did 27:45.815 --> 27:48.926 my due diligence looking at the product and testing 27:49.023 --> 27:53.842 it out, but also really just talking 27:53.956 --> 27:58.472 to other peers, right? Talking to other school districts who 27:58.972 --> 28:02.737 had been using this product. I specifically talked to a 28:03.237 --> 28:06.826 CTO who had been the CIO for Detroit 28:06.842 --> 28:11.576 Public Schools who had moved on and was kind of managing technology 28:11.961 --> 28:15.524 and cybersecurity for like 20 different school 28:15.556 --> 28:19.552 districts in Michigan. And just hearing his story 28:19.970 --> 28:23.597 of— it's one of these products too, Chris, where you set it and forget 28:24.097 --> 28:27.609 it, right? Okay. Like, you just let it— you understand 28:28.109 --> 28:32.167 this probably, right? Like, my IT people that work on my network 28:32.667 --> 28:36.324 team, they're not full-time cybersecurity analysts, 28:36.356 --> 28:40.351 right? They don't have time to be managing and 28:40.544 --> 28:44.001 looking at. I just need something that runs and takes 28:44.501 --> 28:48.659 care of the adversary. And that's what I really liked about really any 28:49.159 --> 28:52.918 cybersecurity solution is that it was going to have a technology, 28:53.570 --> 28:57.538 a machine learning that really handled 28:58.038 --> 29:01.923 that and was hands-off for my tech team. And so that was probably 29:01.955 --> 29:05.457 the other piece that was really appealing to me as 29:05.553 --> 29:09.480 well. So Lumu does your threat detection 29:09.513 --> 29:13.501 and it does response stuff. So it's giving 29:13.517 --> 29:17.403 you visibility into all of your devices, not just Windows, not just Chromebook, 29:17.548 --> 29:20.763 all your devices. And then a lot of that 29:21.263 --> 29:25.020 becomes automated. So I guess, can you give me examples 29:25.437 --> 29:28.894 or if you have a quick 29:29.394 --> 29:32.405 story of something that Lumu did that I don't know, 29:32.453 --> 29:35.707 that you were pumped about or that it was like that great response, some visibility 29:35.756 --> 29:38.529 that you saw that you didn't have before kind of thing? Yeah. 29:38.625 --> 29:42.424 So, I think for me, certainly, as I 29:42.472 --> 29:46.255 said, I

didn't have visibility into where my students 29:46.384 --> 29:50.247 were going. Certainly, we had an enterprise-grade 29:50.747 --> 29:53.244 firewall that was doing its piece, 29:53.854 --> 29:57.028 but students are going and staff are going 29:57.140 --> 30:00.956 to websites. And sometimes the filter catches 30:01.052 --> 30:05.045 it, but I don't— you know, there's so much traffic when you have— 30:05.703 --> 30:09.134 our students had, of course, a 1-to-1. Our employees 30:09.166 --> 30:13.368 had a 2-to-1. Our employees also would 30:13.416 --> 30:16.863 be assigned an iPad besides their district-assigned laptop. 30:17.505 --> 30:21.241 And then we had a BYOD where people could put their phones 30:21.337 --> 30:24.496 on our network, and I wanted all of those devices to 30:24.544 --> 30:28.221 really be protected even if they were personal devices. 30:29.457 --> 30:33.439 And what I saw in the first 30 days of this is 30:33.471 --> 30:38.176 that at all times of the day, like, we have 24/7 30:38.288 --> 30:41.981 staff that work in our building. I was having custodial staff 30:42.481 --> 30:46.686 that at 2:00 in the morning were on their personal phone going 30:46.798 --> 30:50.700 to some kind of website. Yeah. And clicking 30:50.796 --> 30:54.762 on something, and clearly it was a, a malware-type 30:55.262 --> 30:59.242 site or some kind of website that had malicious 30:59.742 --> 31:02.871 intentions. And within a minute or 2, 31:03.497 --> 31:07.720 it was identifying it. It was writing a rule— like, 31:07.752 --> 31:11.814 it was almost like writing an ACL to our firewall and immediately 31:11.846 --> 31:15.603 blocking that for that individual as well as for anyone 31:16.103 --> 31:19.744 else that would have tried to go to this website. That's awesome. And as I 31:19.793 --> 31:23.782 said, like, I don't have analysts that are sitting there and looking at 31:24.282 --> 31:28.172 all this traffic, right? Like, Lumu is leveraging 31:28.364 --> 31:32.242 the knowledge base that is out there of all these different companies that 31:32.786 --> 31:36.295 flag and identify these malicious websites, 31:37.641 --> 31:41.182 and it just takes care of it. And we 31:41.682 --> 31:44.995 can sit there and wait and find out, like, if somebody 31:45.011 --> 31:48.520 came to us and said, hey, I tried to go to this resource and 31:48.568 --> 31:51.693 I'm getting blocked, I can't get to it. We could go in 31:51.901 --> 31:55.363 at that point in time and go evaluate it. But like, 31:55.507 --> 31:59.000 as I— in the first 30 days, Chris, I had 30 or 40— I 31:59.048 --> 32:02.221 was having, um, multiples of these 32:02.654 --> 32:05.859 within the first 30 days of, of, of the 32:06.359 --> 32:09.993 month. And, um, I am still kind of a 32:10.105 --> 32:13.519 quiet consultant for the school district that I just retired 32:13.535 --> 32:17.854 from. I still have an email account there. I still get Lumu notifications. 32:18.063 --> 32:21.483 Mm-hmm. Anytime that, like, in the school year, we're— they're, 32:21.499 --> 32:24.615 um, they're close to, uh, 3 weeks into the 32:25.115 --> 32:29.032 school year. Um, and, and I, I get Lumu notifications 32:29.532 --> 32:32.629 almost every day of something that somebody is 32:32.725 --> 32:35.712 clicking on, sometimes 2 or 3 a day. Uh, 32:35.937 --> 32:39.310 and, and I don't really need to know what they are. I just 32:39.810 --> 32:43.654 wanna know that they're getting blocked. Yep. And that our devices and our 32:44.154 --> 32:48.180 network are being protected because it's that automation 32:48.808 --> 32:51.032 of just taking care of it. 32:52.937 --> 32:56.229 And like I said, if an employee came to us and had 32:56.729 --> 33:00.234 an issue and said, hey, I can't get access to this, we could then go 33:00.266 --> 33:03.452 into Lumu and look at what happened. But not a 33:03.952 --> 33:07.074 single time during our proof of concept, 33:07.219 --> 33:09.445 our onboarding at the beginning of May, 33:10.164 --> 33:14.262 Like, I didn't have a single incident where, like, Lumu screwed 33:14.762 --> 33:18.811 up, if you want to say, and inadvertently blocked something that was legitimate. 33:18.876 --> 33:22.945 Like, it was doing its job and taking 33:22.977 --> 33:27.173 care of it. Certainly, it was going to be a culture shift 33:27.478 --> 33:31.057 for my students because you have to force 33:32.782 --> 33:38.145 a browser— like, you have to use the native You 33:38.645 --> 33:42.792 have to use the native Apple Safari browser 33:43.292 --> 33:46.938 for this to work. So you couldn't allow students to use Chrome 33:46.986 --> 33:51.352 or some other browser. But to me, that's like a simple trade-off. 33:51.983 --> 33:55.605 Sure. For what we were getting in terms of cybersecurity protection. 33:57.360 --> 34:00.988 Because again, I don't know where my kids are going. I don't 34:01.488 --> 34:04.910 know what they're clicking on. And high school kids are smart, 34:05.424 --> 34:08.574 right? Like, they could know where 34:09.074 --> 34:13.057 they're going. They might not know. And I'd rather just take the conservative approach 34:13.557 --> 34:18.279 of let's block as much as we can that is identified as potentially 34:18.779 --> 34:22.971 malicious. Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about the implementation. 34:23.036 --> 34:26.748 So you mentioned, you know, so maybe culture shift a little bit with what 34:26.796 --> 34:30.311 your kids are going to use. Can you— you don't have to deep 34:30.811 --> 34:34.001 dive into it, but talk to me about what did that look like to get 34:34.501 --> 34:37.674 things going? Is this an appliance that you bring in, or is this just something 34:37.690 --> 34:40.978 that's cloud-based, like, that you're pushing out particular things, or what? Yeah, 34:41.059 --> 34:44.540 I would say it's really very simple to implement. 34:44.604 --> 34:48.373 You're really just setting up, you know,

34:48.454 --> 34:52.624 you're turning on your account, you're doing— you're 34:52.689 --> 34:56.976 setting up a virtual machine that's in your environment. 34:57.828 --> 35:01.657 That virtual machine is talking to your firewall, 35:01.769 --> 35:05.371 and so you're making that connection. 35:07.538 --> 35:11.152 And then, you're just kind of letting it run and see what was 35:11.185 --> 35:15.187 happening. And initially, Chris, we weren't making any changes. 35:15.840 --> 35:19.595 We weren't pushing— You can push out an agent that sits on 35:19.938 --> 35:23.756 all of the machines, Like, if you want that kind of granularity 35:24.814 --> 35:28.775 on your Windows laptops, your MacBook Pros, 35:28.791 --> 35:31.549 because we have a blended environment, your desktops. 35:32.367 --> 35:36.023 We just wanted to kind of like let it sit and run. 35:36.761 --> 35:39.808 And so we did that for a week and already started, you know, I think 35:40.308 --> 35:43.913 the first day we did this, we were already starting to see results 35:44.413 --> 35:48.387 from it. And then Lumu just follows up with you and 35:48.467 --> 35:52.216 meets and continues to talk with you. And then, as you and your team 35:52.472 --> 35:55.933 are ready to begin to kind of grow and 35:56.013 --> 35:59.667 kind of scale, you can do that at 35:59.683 --> 36:03.320 your pace, right? Like, typically, you're not going to go push out 36:04.409 --> 36:07.854 any kind of agent on devices without, 36:07.966 --> 36:12.004 like, first testing it and making sure, like, that it's 36:12.116 --> 36:15.609 not having an adverse impact on performance of those devices. 36:16.861 --> 36:20.025 So, you know, our approach was going to be, let's put this on a couple 36:20.362 --> 36:23.990 of technology department machines and let's see 36:24.490 --> 36:27.667 how it works for people that are on our network team or people that are 36:28.167 --> 36:33.111 on our data team and see if they have any performance issues 36:33.207 --> 36:36.900 before then we scale it. And let's see what's 36:37.400 --> 36:41.958 happening with how it was impacting students 36:42.458 --> 36:45.621 on their iPads. And so we did some testing with just like a 36:45.653 --> 36:49.203 specific grade-level class. And so we did a, you know, 36:49.829 --> 36:53.090 we have close to 3,800 students in Lowe's. So let's test it 36:53.138 --> 36:56.576 with our freshmen, which is a little over 900 students, 36:56.592 --> 37:00.335 and see how that works first before, again, we look at scaling 37:00.447 --> 37:05.346 it en masse. I like it. I guess maybe 37:05.846 --> 37:10.117 last question, unless we talk about hot dogs or Italian beef sandwiches again, but If 37:10.617 --> 37:14.178 I'm a tech director and I don't really have my cybersecurity 37:14.678 --> 37:17.838 stuff figured out, I guess what advice would you give me on 37:17.854 --> 37:21.177 how to get started and what products to look at? Yeah. But even that 37:21.677 --> 37:25.576 segue over into how you ended up landing with Lumu, what advice 37:26.076 --> 37:29.557 would you give? Certainly, I think you have 37:29.605 --> 37:33.410 to look at, you have to evaluate your own environment. You have 37:33.442 --> 37:36.669 to look at like what is most critical, like where are 37:37.169 --> 37:40.755 the threat actors really attacking First, 37:40.949 --> 37:44.510 and so for us, the critical infrastructure for me was 37:45.010 --> 37:49.669 certainly our server environment, making sure that our disaster 37:50.169 --> 37:54.916 recovery solution was something that was air-gapped, or at least it had like 37:55.416 --> 37:59.416 a multi-factor. You know, two people have to authorize 38:00.983 --> 38:04.617 backups to be deleted because that's like the latest strategy, right? Like let's 38:05.117 --> 38:08.509 get in. Let's delete all their backups so that we kind 38:09.009 --> 38:14.598 of, we have leverage when we want to get money 38:14.695 --> 38:18.166 out of this organization. So making sure, like, I made 38:18.666 --> 38:22.586 sure that those things were addressed first and then look at the resources 38:22.650 --> 38:27.067 I have. And so can I then scale this to employee devices? 38:28.149 --> 38:31.544 And then I think the next biggest area for me was 38:31.657 --> 38:35.498 like, you get so many of these— everyone 38:35.595 --> 38:39.274 wants to attack identity, right? They want to get your credentials. 38:39.322 --> 38:43.100 They want you to click on something. They want you to engage. They want 38:43.600 --> 38:47.299 you to give your— they want you to click on something and type 38:47.799 --> 38:51.316 in your password so that they can then replicate what they're doing. 38:51.430 --> 38:56.146 They can get into the environment and start to study and 38:56.162 --> 39:01.137 then strategically get into your environment 39:01.637 --> 39:04.692 evaluate like how they can attack you. Um, and so I needed, I needed it, 39:04.789 --> 39:07.213 I needed products that were really going to, 39:08.063 --> 39:11.081 um, almost be like an email gateway, uh, 39:11.354 --> 39:14.709 to block all of this, you know, phishing, 39:14.838 --> 39:17.663 spear phishing, you name it, that was hitting, 39:17.791 --> 39:21.355 um, at least our email environment. Um, 39:22.270 --> 39:25.625 it— but the, the where Lumu came into me as well as 39:25.657 --> 39:29.785 something that I saw is this I didn't have control over 39:30.138 --> 39:33.898 email systems for people's personal email accounts, and I know that people 39:33.930 --> 39:37.722 are using those personal email accounts on district 39:38.222 --> 39:41.915 devices. And I know that people— because I was seeing devices get malware 39:42.028 --> 39:45.482 on them, uh, and getting, you know, 39:45.498 --> 39:48.454 called by our, our XDR solution that, 39:49.097 --> 39:52.583 um, they had to lock down a machine because they, they had 39:53.083 --> 39:55.753 something that

somebody had clicked on. 39:58.782 --> 40:02.857 So having a solution that really addressed 40:03.357 --> 40:06.407 areas that were gaps for me, 40:07.876 --> 40:11.264 which was why I looked at the Lumu product, and I really 40:11.764 --> 40:15.907 became aware of it by being at a national technology 40:15.923 --> 40:18.970 conference, talking to peers, 40:19.147 --> 40:24.540 hearing their story, And again, starting to study and 40:24.556 --> 40:28.049 then kick the tires and see the value proposition 40:29.209 --> 40:33.173 of what this investment would look like 40:33.238 --> 40:36.688 and what that return on the investment would look like for our organization. 40:37.852 --> 40:41.402 And if I was to give advice, Chris, to any technology leader, 40:41.482 --> 40:45.354 CTO, director, like, as you start to 40:45.402 --> 40:48.521 find these solutions and evaluate, like, what your needs are, 40:49.136 --> 40:52.586 I always brought this back to my CFO, 40:52.699 --> 40:55.747 our CSBO, and our superintendent to 40:56.247 --> 40:59.727 say, these are— this is an option for us. This is what this 41:00.227 --> 41:03.834 is going to provide. I'm recommending we purchase this, 41:04.155 --> 41:07.461 but this is a joint decision on these kinds 41:07.961 --> 41:12.323 of investments, right? Yeah. Because if you as the technology leader 41:12.823 --> 41:16.270 are recommending it and the top leadership don't want to 41:16.350 --> 41:20.404 buy it, you've made a collective decision because when 41:20.420 --> 41:23.817 crap hits the fan and you're in the middle of a cyberattack, 41:24.522 --> 41:28.527 right? Sometimes financial decisions that were made 41:29.008 --> 41:32.677 by that team will, like, people reflect 41:33.177 --> 41:37.195 on it. And so sometimes the technology leader doesn't want to bring that 41:37.695 --> 41:40.784 to the forefront. They didn't, you know, they make the choice themselves. They don't 41:41.284 --> 41:44.838 even bring it to their CFO, CSBO, 41:45.190 --> 41:48.433 and superintendent. they don't talk about cybersecurity enough. 41:48.498 --> 41:52.627 They don't share the stories of what are happening in 41:53.127 --> 41:57.132 their peer districts and what the tools are that 41:57.632 --> 42:01.981 are available to try and block these things. So, and if the superintendent 42:02.481 --> 42:06.320 and the finance— the person who really has the purse strings on 42:06.820 --> 42:09.726 this don't know about it, they can't say yes or no. 42:10.453 --> 42:14.200 But certainly, if you're in the middle of a ransomware attack, a data 42:14.700 --> 42:18.243 breach, it's all hands on board, right? And everyone 42:18.743 --> 42:22.354 is going to be stuck in the middle of managing that disaster. 42:22.819 --> 42:26.801 Yeah. And so, I think it's the technology leader's responsibility 42:27.475 --> 42:30.863 to educate, to share what's going on, to recommend 42:31.363 --> 42:35.503 solutions. And so, I still, even though I'm retired, Chris, I still 42:36.003 --> 42:39.517 sit in meetings. I still go to presentations. I still continue to 42:39.597 --> 42:43.595 learn about these things. Because I think we have 42:44.095 --> 42:47.833 to— certainly I still talk to other technology leaders 42:48.572 --> 42:50.980 and just want to stay educated in this space. 42:51.863 --> 42:55.379 That's good advice. All right, 2 quick questions. 42:55.957 --> 42:58.782 One, do you put sport peppers on your hot dog? 42:59.730 --> 43:02.876 I do not. If I 43:03.376 --> 43:06.954 get something that's really spicy, Chris, my genetics 43:07.454 --> 43:09.459 are such that I start to sweat like a dog. 43:10.727 --> 43:13.775 Um, so the sport peppers, even, you know, 43:14.417 --> 43:18.364 I, I do like good banana peppers, but I, I cannot— like, a sport pepper 43:18.864 --> 43:21.893 is just a little too much heat for me. And then last question, do you 43:22.393 --> 43:25.471 do the celery salt or do you not? Oh, absolutely. Celery salt, 43:25.888 --> 43:29.466 100%. I even, Chris, I even have celery salt in 43:29.514 --> 43:32.771 my home so that when I'm making a dog at home, 43:32.883 --> 43:36.268 I can make my own Chicago-style dog. And you gotta get You 43:36.332 --> 43:40.113 got to get the poppy seed bun, which authenticates 43:40.338 --> 43:43.670 a real Chicago dog. I love it. And at some point in 43:43.766 --> 43:47.564 time, Chris, we got to talk Chicago pizza because it is a thing of 43:47.868 --> 43:51.889 itself too. I don't know the pizza as well. So maybe 43:51.954 --> 43:55.174 you'll come back on sometime. We'll talk through pizza. 43:55.238 --> 43:58.971 That sounds good. Well, Michael, it's been good hanging out with you and 43:59.003 --> 44:02.288 in particular talking about— well, for one, talking about nostalgia. 44:02.512 --> 44:04.723 I loved our conversation at the very beginning here. 44:06.038 --> 44:08.651 from Teacher to Tech, and you've been in the K-12 tech game for a while 44:09.261 --> 44:12.580 and loved our Chicago-style talk as well, but also love talking about Lumu. So check 44:12.692 --> 44:15.883 out lumu.io. Check out Lumu. 44:16.075 --> 44:19.972 They can do detection, response, threats in real time. 44:20.116 --> 44:23.098 Michael, thank you so much. Chris, can I add one last thing? For sure. 44:23.146 --> 44:26.931 Certainly, if people want a firsthand story about this, 44:27.139 --> 44:30.987 I'm available on LinkedIn. People can reach out to me. I can 44:31.051 --> 44:34.766 share a firsthand story of 'Cause that's 44:35.266 --> 44:38.248 how business is done. Tech directors talk to other tech directors, 44:39.154 --> 44:43.394 share the good and the bad of how partners 44:43.491 --> 44:47.460 are. And I would tell you, Lumu's one of those good cybersecurity 44:47.525 --> 44:50.749 partners. Awesome. Thank you so much. Yep. Thanks, 44:50.782 --> 44:50.976 Chris. 45:02.665 --> 45:05.874 The views and opinions expressed on the K-12 Tech Talk 45:06.374 --> 45:09.788 podcast are the personal opinions of Josh, Chris, and Mark, and do not represent 45:10.288 --> 45:13.895 the views or opinions of our sponsors or other organizations that we're affiliated with. 45:14.393 --> 45:17.970 The material and information presented here is for general information and entertainment 45:18.470 --> 45:22.495 purposes only. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week. We were buying words 45:22.995 --> 45:26.618 about the phrase of the day and selling songs 45:26.650 --> 45:28.591 just to stay in the queue.