התמלול המלא של Stephen Perkins

00:03:36.800 --> 00:03:38.639 Blakey, all these great drummers. 00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:42.240 But uh after a while, I'd come in and go, Can you teach me Tom Sawyer? 00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:44.960 Can you teach me, you know, Heartbreaker by Zeppelin? 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:47.759 And the rock and roll started infusing into my life. 00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:54.319 And I realized a lot of the early rock drummers were playing swing jazz beats because that's the record collection they had. 00:03:54.719 --> 00:03:58.479 Mitch Mitchell, Ringo, Charlie Watts, Bill Ward, Bonham. 00:03:58.719 --> 00:03:59.840 They were always swinging. 00:03:59.919 --> 00:04:01.199 They weren't just straight ahead. 00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:04.800 And so I was like, okay, you can infuse jazz and rock. 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:09.039 And what that is, is Motown is kind of like an anchor. 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:10.879 Jazz is a conversation. 00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:13.199 Rock is the marriage of those two things. 00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:17.600 You're the anchor, but then you can react off the singer or the guitar solo. 00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:31.600 So that was really like in a moment in my life where I realized I can still play jazz feel, but switch from traditional to match, play a little more powerful, and keep up with that volume, but still swing. 00:04:31.839 --> 00:04:35.920 And then at 13 at my bar mitzvah, I've got my first drum set. 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:38.560 And that's when I realized you gotta start working on your feet. 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:45.279 So at that point, at 13 and 14, I started playing with rock and roll musicians at that age. 00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:53.600 And I went to high school, joined the marching band, and I thought I was a pretty good drummer until there were 10 other drummers that did exactly what I did. 00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:57.519 I was like, okay, that competition pushed me up. 00:04:57.680 --> 00:04:59.360 I wanted to be first chair, so to speak. 00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:00.000 You know? 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:04.000 And so there's eight snare drummers, four bass drummers, and tri-doms. 00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:06.319 One of the bass drummers was Dave Navarro. 00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:06.879 Oh my god. 00:05:07.120 --> 00:05:11.120 Dave's like, I don't play drums, but I wanted to be in the band, and I know the drummers are the cool ones. 00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:12.560 I play guitar. 00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:15.759 And I had some guitar players in my life that were pretty good. 00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:20.319 And I went to Dave's house and I was like, okay, this is the guy I want to play with. 00:05:20.399 --> 00:05:31.759 Not only did we get along, at the same sense of humor, we like the same stuff, the technique and the thirst to rock at high quality, high skill level, we both shared that. 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:34.800 And at that point, it was all about me and Dave. 00:05:34.959 --> 00:05:36.639 I didn't even really know any bass players. 00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:37.920 It was guitar drums. 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:48.959 And that's what I thought the conversation with Hendricks and Mitch Mitchell, Bonham, and you know, with Page, Clapton, you know, and and and everything Clapton did. 00:05:49.040 --> 00:05:54.800 But if you think about what happened in Cream, this just the power trio, there's this conversation happening. 00:05:54.879 --> 00:06:00.560 And I thought me and Dave really found something where we can literally fit together. 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:03.439 And we had a band called Disaster. 00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:06.959 And Disaster played the troubadour, the Roxy, the Whiskey. 00:06:07.040 --> 00:06:09.199 This is 81, 82, 83. 00:06:09.759 --> 00:06:14.399 We were just kids, and we'd see Motley Crue play, and we're like, how do we do this? 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:16.800 And I asked uh the manager for Motley. 00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:18.720 Who'd you have as a singer at that point? 00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:23.839 He was just another kid at high school, and our rehearsal place was so bad we couldn't hear him. 00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:26.879 So when we went to the troubadour, we finally heard what he sounded like. 00:06:26.959 --> 00:06:28.720 It was like, ooh, yeah, not so great. 00:06:29.439 --> 00:06:30.319 He had the look. 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:35.680 He had like a denim vest and the slayer patches, you know, and we're like, that's our man. 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:40.319 And he had a lot of guts, but he didn't really have the, you know, he wasn't in pitch so much. 00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:42.240 But uh his name was Jeff. 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:47.759 So we did like three or four shows, maybe five or six total with disaster. 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:50.800 And we kind of ran out of gas in 1984. 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:54.399 And me and Dave said, Let's try to find a bass player and do a trio. 00:06:54.639 --> 00:06:59.759 And we started rehearsing up at Dave's house, and we couldn't find a bass player. 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:06.399 We kept jamming and jamming, and all of a sudden, my girlfriend said, Would you like to see my brother's band or called Jane's Addiction? 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:09.120 So me and Dave went to go see Jane's Addiction. 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:10.879 Another drummer, another guitar player. 00:07:10.959 --> 00:07:12.399 I think it was their second show. 00:07:12.879 --> 00:07:17.199 And me and Dave were like, Oh yeah, that's a cool band. 00:07:17.439 --> 00:07:19.920 That's something that's not straight ahead rock and roll. 00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:21.600 They're breaking the rules. 00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:25.360 And we saw them once or twice, I think, some backyard parties. 00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:29.600 And uh my girlfriend at the time said they're looking for a drummer. 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:33.120 So I told Dave, I'm gonna go check this band out. 00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:35.439 Did the audition, so to speak. 00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:37.279 That night I was in the band. 00:07:37.600

--> 00:07:38.560 So, where did you play it? 00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:40.240 You play one of their songs, or where did they have to play? 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:43.199 Yeah, the songs we played, uh, it's called Pigs and Zen. 00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:52.160 And I brought not just the four-piece, I went with the Keith Moon, I brought everything. 00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:56.560 And I had the huge drum set, completely opposite of everything they were into. 00:07:56.959 --> 00:07:59.439 The singer, Perry, was 26. 00:07:59.759 --> 00:08:02.240 The bass player was 22, I was 17. 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:09.120 So you gotta hand it to them to go back into the younger, you know, the shallow pool of young musicians that are hotshots. 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:12.240 And the guitar player at the time was Ed, who was their age. 00:08:12.399 --> 00:08:19.040 And I kept on saying, My buddy Dave, I like Ed, but when you see Dave play, you're gonna see there's something different here. 00:08:19.439 --> 00:08:26.560 And it maybe about six weeks in, uh, Ed was started to kind of dissolve out of the picture. 00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:30.959 And so I brought Dave over, and uh, the first song we played with Dave was Whores. 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:36.559 And the Triple X record has that song Whores on it. 00:08:36.720 --> 00:08:40.399 That's really what we sounded like that very first jam with Dave. 00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:51.120 It's just this fat bass line, slinky drums, guitar solos, aggressive lyrics, and all of a sudden we said, My God, this is this is something different. 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:52.080 This is new. 00:08:53.120 --> 00:09:03.919 You know, Eric and Perry were into Iggy, Susie, Echo, Bauhaus, me and Navarro, Maiden, Zeppelin, Scorpions, came from different places, different record collections. 00:09:04.159 --> 00:09:06.720 That's how the sound really came together. 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:09.519 And Perry's lyrics were poems. 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:14.559 The lyrics I was listening to were Motley Crue lyrics, you know, about cars and girls and leather. 00:09:14.879 --> 00:09:19.840 Perry had some lyrics that were some deep thought-provoking lyrics. 00:09:20.159 --> 00:09:27.200 So there was something new about this that was fresh and really perfect timing because the strip was over. 00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:31.279 Rat, poison, motley, steeler, everyone got signed on the strip. 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:33.360 85, it was done. 00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:35.519 The punk rock scene already peaked. 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:39.200 X, fear, black flag, dead Kennedys. 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:40.720 So everybody kind of hit the roof. 00:09:40.799 --> 00:09:41.840 They weren't going to get any bigger. 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:55.039 But what Jane's addiction did is we brought that metal urgency and those flashy moments that metal had that punk rock didn't really have, except for the aggression, but they didn't have much technique of flash and solos. 00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:56.480 They were

great players. 00:09:56.720 --> 00:09:58.399 And that was the marriage. 00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:01.679 And so me and Dave knew about the whiskey, the roxy, all those places. 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:04.080 But these bands were playing late night parties. 00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:05.759 They weren't playing the strip. 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:10.799 But everybody who went to the strip needed a party to go to at midnight. 00:10:10.960 --> 00:10:13.759 So Jane's Addiction would play this place called The Scream. 00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:17.440 That was downtown LA, and we moved locations every three weeks. 00:10:17.679 --> 00:10:23.759 In the audience, there was Nikki Six, Tommy Lee, Faster Pussycat, Flea, Anthony. 00:10:23.919 --> 00:10:25.279 They all needed a place to party. 00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:25.600 Uh-huh. 00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:26.639 We were the band. 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:27.200 Oh wow. 00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:28.960 We were the house band for The Scream. 00:10:29.039 --> 00:10:33.360 And they had many bands, but we were the ones that really brought it all together. 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:37.759 We played the Scream maybe 20 times, different locations. 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:40.639 Geffen actually put a Scream record out. 00:10:40.799 --> 00:10:41.679 You can look. 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:49.360 The bands of Scream, Jane's Addiction, TSOL, Counterwall, a couple other bands. 00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:52.000 But those are the bands that were playing that little circuit. 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:57.679 So, you know, that late night after hours party was something new for me and Dave. 00:10:57.759 --> 00:10:58.720 We weren't even 21. 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:00.480 We weren't actually allowed into those places. 00:11:00.559 --> 00:11:01.120 You know what I mean? 00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:02.320 We were the kids. 00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:08.159 And uh someone came up with the name Teen Rockababes for me and Dave, because we were complete teenagers. 00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:14.559 You know, meeting Flea at the time, he seemed like a full adult, even though he was only five years older. 00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:18.559 But when you're 17 or 18 and they're 24 or something, it's a big difference, you know? 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:20.080 So we were the kids. 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:28.559 And uh what we brought to the scene was something that was, like I said, not a sunset strip, not the punk scene. 00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:30.320 It was something brand new going on. 00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:30.879 Yeah. 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:33.759 And our first record was live at the Roxy. 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:35.919 So we said, we want to record a live record. 00:11:36.080 --> 00:11:39.919 We've never played the strip, but we know the Roxy sounds great. 00:11:40.159 --> 00:11:44.639 So we pulled in between the rainbow and the Roxy, there's a little parking strip. 00:11:44.799 --> 00:11:46.080 We pulled in a camper. 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:50.000 It was a mobile recording unit back in the day. 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:53.759 And we got a guy named Tim Pinch. 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:55.120 Pinch, I think it was. 00:11:55.279 --> 00:11:58.320 And the camper said, it's a cinch with Tim Pinch. 00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:03.679 And supposedly he recorded, yeah, he supposedly he recorded a lot of great live records. 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:12.559 So we did an acoustic set and then we did an electric set and went back and mixed the record, and that's the triple X record, live at the Roxy. 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:16.000 So my first record was a one take. 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:17.840 I had one take, that's it. 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:22.879 That's what I'm so proud of is no click, no retakes, live at the Roxy. 00:12:23.039 --> 00:12:27.279 And I look back at that record and go, that's really what we sounded like every night. 00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:28.960 And they're actually incredible. 00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:29.759 It's so hard. 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:43.679 Yeah, it was great because we didn't know any different, you know what I mean, about tuning and speeding up, or any of the strange things you learn about recording process as you get better and more, you know, experience in the studio. 00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:44.720 We didn't have any of that. 00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:46.159 It was all live at the Roxy. 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:49.039 So that was our very first record. 00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:52.799 In the audience was Capital, Warner's, Geffen. 00:12:53.679 --> 00:13:00.559 Uh, all these labels were ready to sign us because they would go to the scream and see a thousand people waiting to see Jane's addiction. 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:04.480 And we said, no, we're gonna put our own record out with Triple X. 00:13:04.879 --> 00:13:08.080 Distribution was very small, but we we went for it. 00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:12.399 And we had a great moment with an agent named Mark Geiger. 00:13:12.879 --> 00:13:15.679 And Geiger's like, I want to help you guys find gigs. 00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:17.919 Not with Van Halen and Aerosmith. 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:21.279 Well, I want you playing with some punk bands, Iggy Pop. 00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:23.519 I want you opening up for Love and Rockets. 00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:25.919 I want you playing with the psychedelic furs. 00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:29.519 I want you in front of audiences that can understand what you're doing. 00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:37.039 And he put us on some great tours in front of some great audiences, young audiences that were ready for what we were given. 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:40.240 Because they were bored of the strip and the punk scene. 00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:42.080 There they needed to be something new. 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:46.399 If you had a cure poster and a Metallica poster, you could be a Jaynes fan. 00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:51.039 That's really where, you know, two of the guys were into the cure, two of the guys were into Metallica. 00:13:51.279 --> 00:13:52.879 That's the sound, you know?

00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:55.919 And that was 86, 87. 00:13:57.039 --> 00:14:03.120 And then we had a bidding war, which was pretty remarkable where all the labels were fighting to sign us. 00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:07.919 And it wasn't about how much money we were getting, it was about how much control we had. 00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:10.399 And Warner Brothers said, full control. 00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:15.200 Geffen said, we'll give you more money than Warner's, but we're gonna help produce it. 00:14:15.440 --> 00:14:19.440 Tom Zutat, who signed Motley and G and R, wanted to sign us. 00:14:19.600 --> 00:14:21.440 We're like, no, we're not Motley and G and R. 00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:22.320 We're not going to Geffen. 00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:25.759 We're not gonna do my clink for production. 00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:28.000 We're gonna go to Warner's and do it our own way. 00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:34.879 And Warner's wanted us to go to Sire, that had Ramones, replacements, pretenders. 00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:38.399 They were built for our music, radio, college. 00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:40.159 We're like, no, we want Warner's. 00:14:40.240 --> 00:14:41.759 We want to be on Warner Brothers. 00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:47.279 So we had to challenge Lenny Warner and Mo Austin to kind of figure out how to promote this band. 00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:53.759 And they looked at us and said, do whatever you want to do artistically, musically, lyrically. 00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:56.559 We want to show the world what it's like after midnight in LA. 00:14:56.960 --> 00:14:58.480 We're not talking about from 9 p.m. 00:14:58.639 --> 00:14:59.039 to midnight. 00:14:59.120 --> 00:15:02.320 We're talking midnight to 6 a.m., what's going on in LA? 00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:04.480 And that was nothing shocking. 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:08.879 And we spent a month recording that record and enjoying the studio. 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:14.000 Like, okay, the song Summertime Rolls, the first four minutes was a four-piece scratch. 00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:19.120 Then the next day we came back and did the next two minutes of the song on a big Ludwig, you know. 00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:21.360 And I'm like, you can split the song up. 00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:24.000 I didn't even realize that you could do that kind of stuff, you know. 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:29.200 And we had a great time just exploring the studio for Nothing Shocking. 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:34.320 And before Nothing Shocking, we recorded all our songs for Warner's. 00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:36.159 So we had about 40 songs. 00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:40.240 Warner's picked maybe 15 to say, let's put this on Nothing Shocking. 00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:43.679 We'll save the other ones for what turned out to be ritual. 00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:59.759 And the nothing shocking experience for us was the power to be ourselves and then to put it out and hear mountain song or ocean size or had it had and to hear it actually stand out. 00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:01.440 It was different than what was happening. 00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:11.039 You know, and to be friends with the LA scene, the G and R and the Bullet Boys and the Faster Pussycat, those are all our friends, but we weren't sounding or dressing like them. 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:12.799 We were something different. 00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:22.080 And I think that's really the chemistry that made James Addiction, I guess, explosive worldwide. 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:28.080 You know, the work we put into that record, not only recording but touring, was intense. 00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:33.279 And so it was a little hard for us physically because we didn't have any money. 00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:34.879 So we'd get one hotel room. 00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:36.960 Me and the singer would share a bed. 00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:38.799 Dave and Eric would share a bed. 00:16:39.039 --> 00:16:43.440 I mean, literally, this is all we had, you know, the show, the bed, the show, the bed. 00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:46.799 But we got to be a great band on stage. 00:16:46.879 --> 00:16:47.519 We got to experience. 00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:50.799 So you tore around like at this point in a van, you got a bus. 00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:56.080 We had a van, and then we graduated to a camper, which back then was only called a Winnebago. 00:16:56.240 --> 00:16:56.399 Yeah. 00:16:56.559 --> 00:16:59.039 That was the only camper available at the Winnebago. 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:01.440 And, you know, we thought it was amazing the first week. 00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:03.759 And then about a week into it, we're like, oh, this is awful. 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:05.519 This is just like, woo. 00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:08.720 But uh we really worked our butts off. 00:17:08.799 --> 00:17:15.279 You know, I mean, it was fun and it wasn't work, but if you look back, we put a lot of time into it. 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:22.240 And after the nothing shocking tour, right back into the studio for ritual, like I was saying, we're a great live band. 00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:25.680 So we did three days, done. 00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:28.079 We did, you know, then she did, done. 00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:36.880 We did the songs on that record, we just played them and we listened back and said, cool, man, this is we can do another version, but it's not gonna be better or worse, it'll just be a little different. 00:17:37.119 --> 00:17:42.880 And I think the the ritual record, listening to it, I'd rather hear the mix. 00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:44.640 I would remix it a little differently now. 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:45.680 I hear back. 00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:52.319 But um, at the time it was the perfect picture of what we were and sounded like. 00:17:52.960 --> 00:18:00.240 And you know, the the experience for me and Dave from high school to that, we couldn't believe what was happening. 00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:06.480 The experience for for Dave and Eric as a you know, the the string section. 00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:08.079 Dave got to learn

so much. 00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:10.880 Now, Eric for me as a bass player changed my drumming. 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:16.400 I didn't realize what bass player's role was until I met Eric. 00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:24.079 When he played me Mountain Song, he's like, that's all I'm gonna do. 00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:26.720 I'm like, you're not gonna go, you're not gonna jam? 00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:28.640 He's like, no, man, I'm gonna do this bass line. 00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:31.920 Write a drum beat as badass as that bass line. 00:18:32.079 --> 00:18:33.599 And I was like, Well, I never thought of that. 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:34.720 Okay, think of a drum beat. 00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:37.119 Was that the sort of song he came up with that riff? 00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:37.759 Oh, yeah. 00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:40.319 I mean, Eric said, here's the bass line, what are you gonna do with that? 00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:43.839 You know, you got an idea, and I can go a million directions with that. 00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:47.920 I can do four on the floor, I can play some funk. 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:55.440 But I was deep into Babatundi Alatunji, African drummer, and Fela Kuti at the time. 00:18:55.599 --> 00:19:00.720 And I thought, what happens if I impregnated this rock and roll bass line with some African rhythms? 00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:06.079 And if you play mountain song on a drum set, it kind of reminds me of a gym baby. 00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:20.000 So I try to leave spaces, no hi-hat, just toms, and make a melody with the drums that works with that bass line. 00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:26.319 One of my favorite artists, his name is MC Escher, and he does the black ducks and the white ducks that go off the page. 00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:28.559 That's what I think a rhythm section should be. 00:19:28.880 --> 00:19:31.039 You don't know if you're looking at a white duck or a black duck. 00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:32.960 Is it a bass drum or a bass guitar? 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:33.839 What's happening? 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:36.480 It's just mended and melded together. 00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:38.960 And and Eric took me to that spot. 00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:43.519 Like I say, before Eric, which is me and Dave, I'd be chasing the guitar solo. 00:19:43.839 --> 00:19:48.160 And Eric's like, okay, you can do that all you want, but what are you gonna do with my bass line? 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:53.839 And he opened my eyes to what the possibilities were for a rhythm section. 00:19:54.160 --> 00:20:04.079 So you've mentioned now uh like jazz, you mentioned um African, like you're you're obviously a student of percussion and obese, right? 00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:05.359 So like tell me about that journey. 00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:06.400 Absolutely. 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:09.680 With the love of jazz, I hit the roof. 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:14.000 And then embracing rock and roll, I hit the roof. 00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:16.880 How many times could I play to a rush record? 00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:19.279 How many times could I play to a Zeppelin record? 00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:21.759 I need something else to kind of inspire me. 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:31.200 And that's when I started buying Latin records, East Indian records, African records, records that I didn't even, I wasn't looking for a song to sing along to. 00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:36.480 I just wanted to feel the pulse and the rhythm of different drummers from different parts of the world. 00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:40.160 And that was really the the light bulb. 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:45.119 And also buying a pair of bongos when I started playing rhythms just with my fingers. 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:49.440 I was like, oh my gosh, there's so many rhythms. 00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:55.839 The drum set are these bigger rhythms, the hand percussion are these tiny little circles, you know. 00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:57.279 That's how I see the rhythms. 00:20:58.079 --> 00:21:02.480 They repeat, kind of like an egg going down a hill or a ball going down the hill. 00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:03.599 They both get to the bottom. 00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:05.519 The egg's got a feel. 00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:08.160 I want to have a feel to my beats. 00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:14.640 And even if I don't put it in every beat, I want to know that it's available to make it feel peaks and valleys and a hump. 00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:25.519 So those African records and those, you know, it in a sense getting away from West Western music opened my eyes up to this new kind of feel. 00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:30.000 You know, the Brazilian beat is very different than something in Cuba. 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:31.039 You know, why? 00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:33.599 I don't know why, just different people playing different rhythms. 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:42.720 But if you can take all that and put it into your arsenal somehow, and after a while you don't even think, your body just starts to play. 00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:47.599 You're not just swinging, you're not just rocking, now you're doing African stuff or Latin stuff. 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:49.039 It just starts to happen. 00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:54.960 And then when hip hop came out, I was like, man, those are programmed drum beats. 00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:59.599 I'll put that on and try to play to that. 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:02.079 And after two weeks of that, my drumming changed. 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:04.880 You know, mmm. 00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:12.559 Like I wouldn't think that way as a drummer, but the hip-hop music, you know, straight out of Compton, I used to play that record over and over and over. 00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:14.000 It changed my drumming. 00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:16.000 And I still have that quest. 00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:21.440 How do I break everything I've worked for and keep breaking it? 00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:25.119 You know, I've worked so hard to get personality out of my drumming. 00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:26.799 Now I'm bored of my own personality.

00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:27.519 You know what I mean? 00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:29.119 I don't want to sound just like me. 00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:30.559 I want to break free. 00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:32.000 And that hurts. 00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:38.079 It's painful when you play something and you listen back and you're like, that's killer, but it sounds like me five years ago. 00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:39.279 That's not good. 00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:40.799 Where am I now? 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:45.359 And I don't want to just change my part just because I'm older. 00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:51.920 I want to change my parts because I'm a better musician and I'm more aware of everything around me. 00:22:52.559 --> 00:23:07.359 And the lyrics, the syllables, the subject, the phrasing of the words, the bass line, the guitar solo, the guitar riff, and today's music with so many different frequencies, like you didn't have that in the Beatles. 00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:10.000 I mean, how much real estate does that take in your music? 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:15.599 You know, I mean, bands like Limp Biscuit and Corn and stuff, they embraced rock and roll with those hip-hop sounds. 00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:16.559 It's not easy. 00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:22.480 Because you have an 808 in a rock and roll riff, it's gonna cover up too much real estate. 00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:25.519 So I started to realize the mix. 00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:29.200 How do you fit your instruments in a mix in today's world? 00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:36.079 The cymbals and the voice and the guitar is up here, the bass and drums are down here, the kick drum and the subs are below. 00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:40.319 So I started visualizing the mix even before I play. 00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:42.640 You're visualizing the vocals. 00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:43.359 Absolutely. 00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:46.160 I'm trying to figure out how this picture works together. 00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:50.960 Because you can always, it's easy to overplay as a drummer. 00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:53.599 And we all as drummers practice alone a lot. 00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:57.680 So we're going off, and you get into a band, you're like, oh my God, everyone else is playing. 00:23:57.759 --> 00:23:59.680 I gotta subtract and edit myself. 00:24:00.079 --> 00:24:05.599 And it's okay to play less if you can get the job done to make people feel something, you know. 00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:15.039 I as a drummer, our job, I think, of course, to blow some minds with technique and some flash, it's cool. 00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:17.680 But if they can't move, what's the point, man? 00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:22.880 We're supposed to we're trying to unite people and and have people groove together. 00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:27.119 You know, I don't want to divide anybody, I want to unite people with my drumming. 00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:31.119 And even in high school, I would do drum circles. 00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:34.160 You know, everyone brings the party favors to the party. 00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:44.319 I would bring a Moracca and a bongo to the party and be like, cool, man, you guys are doing your thing, but and I found that the drums would unite people. 00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:48.160 Uh, born and raised in LA, there's the Venice drum circle. 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:52.480 And I would never join it as a kid because I was intimidated, but I'd walk by it. 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:54.079 It always smelled good. 00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:57.759 But you hear all these people boom, and people just dancing. 00:24:57.839 --> 00:24:58.799 And I was like, cool. 00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:05.279 I mean, they're not all professionals, they're not all great drummers, but they're united, and you don't see that in the guitar world or the bass world. 00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:12.000 You know, it's you don't go into a guitar center and like have like 10 guitars in a circle playing all at the same time. 00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:13.200 Exactly. 00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:23.759 So there was something great in United, even in the in the the drum, you know, section in the marching band, the to unite and be powerful as one sound. 00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:33.119 So I, you know, I think as a drummer, if I can get people to move and feel something, and then maybe once in a while throw something that's like, whoa, how did he do that? 00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:37.599 As long as it doesn't interrupt the vibe, you know, my job is is done. 00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:42.799 Um, I'm always trying to grow and find something new to inspire me. 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:47.920 If it's not music, it's a movie or a book or an experience or a hike or a view. 00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:52.400 Bring that into my life somehow and remember that when I play music. 00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:57.440 You know, it's like every morning I do practice. 00:25:58.480 --> 00:26:00.319 I go traditional, do my rudiments. 00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:07.200 Sometimes I break out mallets and just kind of like make music out of the drum set, you know, not worry about any technique. 00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:10.640 Sometimes I do double bass for 10 minutes and do an endurance test. 00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:15.599 It's not even musical, it's just me going for it, like running in place, you know. 00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:17.599 So you can do that or a Peloton. 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:18.720 Exactly. 00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:28.720 But the drums to me is like it's a beautiful musical instrument, but it also is this internal self-giving cycle you get from drumming. 00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:35.039 It's like extra any exercise, you know, or working out, you miss a couple weeks, you miss it, and your body starts to change. 00:26:35.119 --> 00:26:38.960 You get back into it, and your body feels normalized again. 00:26:39.119 --> 00:26:41.839 So drumming normalizes my life somehow. 00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:45.759 So tell me, like, I mean, you've studied all these different techniques. 00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:54.400 I mean, give me an

example of a song where you feel like you've been able to bring something totally outside the normal into that song and make it something special. 00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:54.880 Great. 00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:56.799 Uh the song Porno Papyros. 00:26:57.680 --> 00:27:03.039 When we started the band, me and Perry thought, we're not gonna find another Dave Navarro. 00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:09.359 Let's find a guitar player that writes songs, real simple songs, and we'll leave more room for the rhythm section. 00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:14.880 So we found Pete DeStefano on a surf trip at a campfire playing acoustic. 00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:17.599 And he's like, you know, writes these great songs. 00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:20.319 Of course, he could solo, but it was about the songs. 00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:33.039 So as we were working on the new record for the porno record, I kept on thinking, I'm gonna infuse rhythms that will and somehow bubble underneath this great song. 00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:37.920 You know, Porn Fapyros or Pets, all the songs on the first record. 00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:40.720 Really great songs just on a campfire level. 00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:43.839 We can just sit and sing them without a drum part. 00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:48.880 So when we started writing the songs, Campfire style, I had a shaker in my hand and a bongo. 00:27:50.079 --> 00:27:51.519 It didn't have a drum set. 00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:56.079 And all those little rhythms were fitting in the song when I got to the drum set. 00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:59.920 I was like, how do I impregnate those ideas onto the drum set? 00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:05.200 And the bass player Martijn Lenoble, he is from Amsterdam. 00:28:05.440 --> 00:28:07.359 He didn't grow up with any of the music I did. 00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:10.079 I couldn't say, you know, the third song on the Zeppelin record. 00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:13.279 You know, he grew up with uh, you know, Dutch music. 00:28:13.519 --> 00:28:14.640 So that was great. 00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:16.240 We couldn't reference each other. 00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:21.759 So I'd be playing something, and I'm like, you know, kind of like the beat from then he's like, I don't know what you're talking about, man. 00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:24.079 So it was a completely fresh band. 00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:33.519 You know, me and Perry had the idea of making it campfire song-like, but also aggressive rhythmically. 00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:40.559 Martine was so new to our scene that he was bringing something very fresh as a bass player, just like Eric did for me. 00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:42.160 Something brand new. 00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:48.559 But that song, Porn for Pyrrho's, quick note, we got the name. 00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:56.240 Our accountant was around when me and Perry were looking at a uh, it was like a fireworks catalog. 00:28:56.480 --> 00:29:00.880 And our accountant said, Oh, that's a porno mag for fireworks catalog. 00:29:01.039 --> 00:29:01.279 Yeah, right.

00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:02.640 In fact, in Arizona or something. 00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:05.599 Our account said, That's a porno mag for pyromaniacs. 00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:06.079 Oh my god. 00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:10.480 But the lyrics came from the riots in LA. 00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:19.279 The name of the band was already in place, but when the riots happened, Perry started writing lyrics about the riots, and that's what that song's about. 00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:33.359 But the rhythm itself, so I had two bongos, tom, floor tom, and I try to come up with this musical beat that would give that egg shape. 00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:37.440 And it would end at the bottom of the hill, but with a hump. 00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:45.680 And it's still one of the most difficult parts to play for me with sensitivity and reaction. 00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:49.119 If you listen to the recording, it's exactly the way I wanted it. 00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:54.799 If I listen to myself playing it live, I'm always like, mmm, you know, you you want to get better at it. 00:29:54.880 --> 00:30:06.960 But that's the one of the beats that I thought it's completely an original rock and roll song because of the lyrics and the music and the bass, but because of the drum part. 00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:08.960 And it's quite busy. 00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:13.119 And if you strip the music away, it's almost like wall-to-wall carpet. 00:30:13.359 --> 00:30:14.559 It's covering everything. 00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:18.160 My drum part, you know, but but it's still musical. 00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:23.039 And since I have bongos and tom-toms, it's got peaks and valleys. 00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:32.400 And it's really uh it's activated. 00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:35.680 And I think, and reactive off the lyrics. 00:30:35.839 --> 00:30:37.359 And I always did that with Perry. 00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:39.759 There's a song called Trip Away with Jane's Addiction. 00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:47.279 He would say trip away, psh, then he'd say trip away, and I go trip, and I'd act, you know, I just react a little different. 00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:49.519 And I'm always aware of those words. 00:30:49.599 --> 00:30:51.039 And same with porn for pyros. 00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:53.039 When he says something, I react. 00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:57.680 If he moves the accent just a little, I wait and then push it. 00:30:58.000 --> 00:30:59.839 And the bass player's like, what are you doing? 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:02.079 I'm reacting to the lyric, you know. 00:31:02.319 --> 00:31:07.759 So there's that place almost like when Tarzan lets go of the rope before he grabs the next one. 00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:08.960 You're you're flying. 00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:09.680 You know what I mean? 00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:13.119 You you trust that rope's gonna be there, but you have to have trust. 00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:16.400 And that's the band would trust me to go somewhere. 00:31:16.559 --> 00:31:18.240 And and I'll I'm gonna come back. 00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:21.200 Don't worry, I'll be there, but I'm gonna kind of leave you suspended. 00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:22.720 I love that suspension. 00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:31.119 It's like a drummer can take a piece of taffy, you know, just stretch the beat, or put the yo-yo and let it you know, walk the dog, you know, and then bring it back up. 00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:32.880 The drummer has that power. 00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:37.440 It's true if you think about the feeling that the drummer controls. 00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:48.319 If you think about a conductor, someone can do Beethoven's fifth in eight minutes, another conductor can do it eight minutes in three seconds because he slowed down the violin moment. 00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:50.240 Or he sped up, you know what I mean? 00:31:50.319 --> 00:31:52.960 Yeah, it's the same piece of music, but it's three seconds longer. 00:31:53.119 --> 00:31:53.359 How? 00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:54.240 It's the conductor. 00:31:54.400 --> 00:31:55.599 A drummer can do that. 00:31:55.920 --> 00:32:01.440 Can totally pull back, go push a little harder on the solos. 00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:09.039 And for young drummers or old drummers, don't be afraid of the click track because the click track is not the boss. 00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:12.480 It's just to remind you, you don't have to play on the click. 00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:17.200 You can play around the click, you can play right before it or after it, as long as you know it's there. 00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:23.119 What what uh like if you're playing a little before it or a little bit, what feeling does that give someone in the audience? 00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:23.839 Absolutely. 00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:27.359 Well, I like holding back when there's a lot of words. 00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:36.559 I want to make sure the guy or girl can sing all those words and syllables with with confidence and not being pushed by the drummer to hurry and get the words out. 00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:39.440 So I like to hold back a little bit on the verses. 00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:46.720 And that gives that gives that feeling, like almost of that comfortable feeling, like, oh man, this this feels good. 00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:48.319 And then the guitar solo comes. 00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:50.640 I like to fucking edge it up a little, you know. 00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:53.359 And even if the guitar player's like, slow down, man, where are you going? 00:32:53.680 --> 00:33:06.880 But it's just a little, just a couple beats, you know, even if it's a half a beat more, but a couple beats per minute, a little quicker, it really does increase that intensity and and not anxiety, but almost like uh, you know, explosive. 00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:08.480 It gets explosive that way. 00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:13.359 The click track as a young drummer was like, oh my god, not the click track. 00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:16.160 But now I understand it's just a guy playing cowbell in the band. 00:33:16.400 --> 00:33:21.200

He's not the he's not the boss, he's just playing cowbell, and you can play around him if you like. 00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:27.599 You know, and if you think about the click or even counting, one, two, three, four. 00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:31.440 One starts with the letter O and ends with E, but it's a long word. 00:33:31.759 --> 00:33:32.319 One. 00:33:32.559 --> 00:33:37.200 You can be a drummer and start on the O, or you can start on the E. 00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:39.279 Like Stuart Copeland from the police. 00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:41.680 One, he's always on the beginning of the word. 00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:44.640 Bonham seems like to be at the end of the word, one. 00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:45.519 One. 00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:46.799 You know, it's think about that. 00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:48.640 Subdividing those little things. 00:33:48.799 --> 00:33:57.200 Drummers think about that crazy subdivision of what's between the beat, what's between the the counting of the of the feel. 00:33:57.440 --> 00:34:02.480 And you know, it's like six, eight, you know, five, four, four, four. 00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:06.640 If you play six, eight for like an hour and you go to four, four, it feels stiff and ugly. 00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:08.639 Because six, eight's like flowing. 00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:10.559 One, two, three, one, two, thick, one, two. 00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:14.079 And then you go to four, four, one, two, three, four, like, what the heck? 00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:14.719 It's stiff. 00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:18.320 But then if you play four, four for an hour and you go to six, eight, like, whoa. 00:34:18.559 --> 00:34:30.639 So it the the feel of the song, and not only the time signature, but the way you make it feel, is is I think a personal experience from the drummer giving to the audience. 00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:36.079 Um, I never want to take control of the band when they're looking at me. 00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:39.280 And why are we why are we headed in this direction all of a sudden? 00:34:39.440 --> 00:34:41.039 You know, so you got to keep your eyes open. 00:34:41.119 --> 00:34:44.719 A lot of drummers close their eyes, which is cool too, but you got to look and be aware. 00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:46.800 It's like the catcher on a baseball team. 00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:48.480 You're the only guy looking. 00:34:48.800 --> 00:34:49.679 You see everything. 00:34:49.840 --> 00:34:51.119 Everyone else is looking at you. 00:34:51.199 --> 00:34:56.159 I mean, that you know, all the musicians are turning around, but you're always looking and seeing what's happening. 00:34:56.320 --> 00:34:59.280 You are this the catcher on the diamond. 00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:04.719 And to be aware of that is it's an exciting, powerful responsibility as a drummer. 00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:14.800 Um, to see people move is a great like energy, like it's cyclical, you know, the cycle of seeing people move and you're making a move. 00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:20.480 I remember I learned uh dance the night away cowbell when I was like 14. 00:35:20.559 --> 00:35:23.119 And I brought my friends over and I was so proud of myself. 00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:29.440 But when my friends got excited, that was like even more powerful than me learning it. 00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:30.960 It was seeing people react to it. 00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:32.400 Like, wow, that's cool. 00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:33.760 That sounds just like the record. 00:35:34.239 --> 00:35:34.880 Yeah. 00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:45.440 We can, as musicians, we can take people out of themselves, take them to another spot, and release whatever fear, anxiety is in them. 00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:47.440 Music can release that, you know. 00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:56.960 And play in a small club when everyone's got their eyes on you, or play in a massive stadium where people are 100 yards away in a Ferris wheel, they're still hearing my drums. 00:35:57.119 --> 00:35:58.960 They can't stop hearing my drums. 00:35:59.119 --> 00:36:03.119 So you don't have to see people to react to, to have them react. 00:36:03.360 --> 00:36:06.400 Just play and know that they're gonna feel those vibrations, you know. 00:36:06.559 --> 00:36:13.119 And the vibrations are so strange because, you know, a guitar looks like a Z and a bass has like a hoop. 00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:14.320 What does a drum have? 00:36:14.480 --> 00:36:20.000 I mean, it's got the low end, it's got the cymbals there, all these different vibrations are kind of shooting out there at people. 00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:24.880 And they don't go away, they're out there in the earth somewhere in the space, you know, they don't just stop. 00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:34.800 The journey of a drummer that wants to get great and then show off and then edit that to make the song sound good. 00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:41.440 You know, you always heard as a young man, Ringo plays for the song, and you listen now, and you're like, God, they're right. 00:36:41.679 --> 00:36:43.840 He just makes the song sound good. 00:36:44.159 --> 00:36:56.639 Uh Charlie Watts, some of those early drum beats when Charlie, when there was maybe the Brian Jones days, it would, you know, under my thumb and uh get off of my cloud, those drum beats are hooks. 00:36:56.800 --> 00:36:59.360 You don't even need a song, and you got a hook. 00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:02.000 And that's always been a challenge for me. 00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:11.360 Every time I write a beat, if I can find a hook in my drum part, mountain song, do do do do do all that, then it goes da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. 00:37:11.599 --> 00:37:14.960 That drum fill, I do it every time. 00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:17.119 That's my hook, I think. 00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:17.920 You know what I mean? 00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:21.599 It's like it's not just a beat, it's that three against four snare fill. 00:37:24.800 --> 00:37:27.360 Just holding it back and then punching them down. 00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:36.960 And, you know, and as

a drummer making an imprint on the world and the music, um, that's not the point. 00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:55.280 But I think after Jane's addiction, there was a great moment in the the scene where you know, Primus and Tool, and you know, of course, the what was happening in in Seattle, drummers were all becoming very different because for a while everybody wanted to be Tommy Lee. 00:37:55.519 --> 00:37:56.239 You know what I mean? 00:37:56.320 --> 00:37:59.599 I mean, and after after a while, everyone started to do something else. 00:37:59.679 --> 00:38:08.400 And same when Travis showed up or Grohl showed up, you they make an imprint on the world, and half the world wants to sound like them all of a sudden, and then they break free from that. 00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:21.280 Uh, you know, not that Jane's addiction people wanted to sound like us, but I think they had that idea, like, wow, you can make a hybrid uh look at these guys, they're doing Jane says, Summertime rolls, ain't all right, how did that? 00:38:21.679 --> 00:38:26.960 Each song is a different universe because we all feel differently all the time. 00:38:27.199 --> 00:38:30.800 You know, I don't feel every day. 00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:32.719 I also don't feel groovy every day. 00:38:32.800 --> 00:38:35.920 You know, I I try to take those feelings into my music somehow. 00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:38.639 So you you mentioned after Jane's addiction. 00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:46.079 So um, you guys come together, you create something utterly original, you have the world singing your songs, and you decide to break. 00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:46.480 Why? 00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:47.119 Yeah. 00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:53.039 Well, in '91, if we had a great manager, someone would have said, take a year off. 00:38:53.199 --> 00:38:53.679 Yeah. 00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:56.960 But no, you gotta strike when it's hot, and we were burnt. 00:38:57.119 --> 00:39:00.480 We weren't, we weren't ready to get back as Jane's addiction. 00:39:00.559 --> 00:39:16.320 After the nothing shocking tour, eight months sharing beds together, the ritual tour, which was a year long, we did three shows at the LA Palladium, toured, two shows at Universal, same record, toured, three shows at Irvine for Lollapalooza. 00:39:16.559 --> 00:39:17.920 That's all on ritual. 00:39:18.159 --> 00:39:24.559 That's how much we grew from you know the Palladium to Universal to Irvine Meadows on the same record. 00:39:24.880 --> 00:39:29.599 So we did the job, but um no one said take a year off. 00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:30.800 They said keep going. 00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:32.320 We're done, man. 00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:34.639 So this is a great story. 00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:39.760 During ritual, uh suicidal tendencies open up for Janes. 00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:43.519 Mike Meir and Rob Trujillo said, We're making a record called Infectious Grooves. 00:39:43.599 --> 00:39:44.639 You want to play drums on it? 00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:46.239 Oh, absolutely, man. 00:39:46.559 --> 00:39:48.480 So I played drums on Infectious. 00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:51.760 Jane's Addiction breaks up in 91 in Hawaii. 00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:59.599 Rob Trujillo and Mike Meir in the audience, they said, Perkins, we just got the No More Tears tour opening for Ozzy. 00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:00.880 Your band just broke up. 00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:02.559 You want to join Infectious Grooves? 00:40:02.719 --> 00:40:04.480 I was in a new band an hour later. 00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:05.679 They saved me. 00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:06.320 I don't know what. 00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:08.000 Did they save you or were you still burnt out? 00:40:08.159 --> 00:40:09.119 No, man, I was ready. 00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:10.639 I don't burn. 00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:12.159 Um I'm ready to play. 00:40:12.320 --> 00:40:15.039 I can't, I don't know what to do with myself if I can't play. 00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:24.719 So two weeks after Jane's breaks up in Hawaii, I'm at rehearsal in North Hollywood with Infectious Grooves, getting ready for the Aussie tour. 00:40:24.800 --> 00:40:32.000 And that tour had the great Randy Castillo on drums, Mike Inez on bass, Zach Wilde on guitar. 00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:32.960 What a band. 00:40:33.199 --> 00:40:34.159 What a hang. 00:40:35.199 --> 00:40:38.880 And that really, I think, saved me. 00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:42.400 Me and Perry were talking about porno, but he wanted to take a whole year off. 00:40:42.639 --> 00:40:44.880 So I'm I'm going out with Infectious. 00:40:45.119 --> 00:40:53.920 And what was cool about that is because the Jane's thing was surrounded by some great musicians, Lollapalooza, we had Suzy, Living Color, Ice T. 00:40:54.239 --> 00:40:58.880 But when I got into Infectio and doing with Aussie, all of a sudden I was in a new scene of metalheads. 00:40:59.119 --> 00:41:02.559 And all the shows were full of metal guys, and I was meeting all the new metal guys. 00:41:02.639 --> 00:41:10.960 And then new metal, the Deftones, Corn, and all these new metal guys that wouldn't be going to Jane shows, or maybe they would have, but I wouldn't have met them. 00:41:11.119 --> 00:41:14.239 The infectious and Aussie tour put me in a whole new circle. 00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:19.119 And I met all these new cats and became friends with all these guys, and still am. 00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:21.440 I can show up at the Deftone show. 00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:22.639 What's up, fellas? 00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:24.639 From that, from that tour. 00:41:24.880 --> 00:41:29.920 Really, really was really good for me, you know, before Porno to be an infectious. 00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:34.400 And when I left Infectious, Brooks Wackerman took my place, and he was like 15. 00:41:34.639 --> 00:41:36.559 And he was like, dude, you're who took your place? 00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:37.760 Chad's brother. 00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:39.119 I was like, no, he's a kid. 00:41:39.199 --> 00:41:40.239 They're like, no, man. 00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:41.920 He's the

new drummer for infectious. 00:41:42.079 --> 00:41:49.760 So Josh and Chad, I mean, excuse me, Josh and Brooks were continuing the infectious, and uh then porno started. 00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:56.079 And with Porno, like I said, it was about the songs and reinventing the rhythm section. 00:41:56.400 --> 00:42:03.119 And even though Pete can solo like a maestro, it was really about less solos, more song-oriented. 00:42:03.760 --> 00:42:09.599 And I think my drumming in Infectious and Jane's was a hard rock. 00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:14.079 And then more, I guess you can say world beat with porno. 00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:18.000 One of my favorite beats on the porno record is Pets. 00:42:18.400 --> 00:42:20.159 And most of the records are quite busy. 00:42:20.559 --> 00:42:22.079 Pets is just simple Motown. 00:42:22.159 --> 00:42:23.440 I have a 10-inch timbali. 00:42:25.599 --> 00:42:29.119 Perry, I was feeding my pet snake, Bobo. 00:42:29.599 --> 00:42:31.760 Perry said, Man, we'd make great pets. 00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:32.639 I go, What do you mean? 00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:38.960 He goes, Man, when the aliens come, not if, but when, we'll sit there and just wait to be fed like your snake. 00:42:39.199 --> 00:42:41.679 And so he started writing lyrics for pets right there. 00:42:42.079 --> 00:42:45.679 And I thought, when the aliens come, I'm gonna be a clock. 00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:47.519 Tick, t-tok, tick, t-tok. 00:42:47.840 --> 00:42:49.840 So I wrote the beat with the words. 00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:53.360 I wanted to be this ticking of when the aliens come. 00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:55.280 Separate of the guitar and the bass. 00:42:55.360 --> 00:43:00.159 So I stuck to that beat and listening to that beat on the record is so opposite than the rest of the record. 00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:03.519 Like I say, the rest of the record is very talkative on the drums. 00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:09.840 That one is just a simple Motown beat, but with selected drums, 20-inch bass drum, no pillow. 00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:13.679 Boom, boom, small snare and a 10-inch tambali. 00:43:13.840 --> 00:43:15.679 That's the sound of the drum set. 00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:19.679 And you can hear it unusually tuned. 00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:23.519 I wanted to be something special as a drummer on that song. 00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:28.719 But I'm always trying to find the marriage of what the song's about. 00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:30.960 What's the subject matter? 00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:32.480 How do I support that? 00:43:32.559 --> 00:43:35.840 If it's possible as a drummer to support a subject, you know what I mean? 00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:38.559 How do you support a story as a drummer? 00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:41.840 I'm always trying to tell a story as a drummer. 00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:48.400 I mean, contemporary music and hip hop and most of the music and pop, they just want to be, they don't want much storytelling. 00:43:48.559 --> 00:43:51.519 Jazz drummers, it's all storytelling and reactive. 00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:52.320 So you're going back to room. 00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:52.880 I'm still torn. 00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:54.239 You're back to your roots. 00:43:54.400 --> 00:43:54.880 Yeah, exactly. 00:43:55.119 --> 00:43:56.000 You know, back to that first. 00:43:56.559 --> 00:43:57.280 Absolutely, man. 00:43:57.360 --> 00:44:00.559 I I love talking musically to People. 00:44:01.039 --> 00:44:10.800 Um I had a great day at 606 Grohls Place a couple years ago where this the piano player was there and I heard him playing jazz and we didn't speak. 00:44:10.960 --> 00:44:15.039 I ran in there, I think Taylor's kit was up, and we just started swinging. 00:44:16.079 --> 00:44:17.039 Piano and drums. 00:44:17.199 --> 00:44:18.079 And I listened back to that. 00:44:18.159 --> 00:44:22.719 I'm like, that's some of the best drumming I ever did because I don't know who that guy was. 00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:33.360 I don't know anything about what he was playing, but we we conversed under the microphones at 606, and it's real, it's there, it's honest. 00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:41.039 And not that I showed off and was doing anything special, but I was musical and very intuitive to the piano. 00:44:41.119 --> 00:44:43.440 And like I said, I always wanted to play with a piano player. 00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:47.920 I always wanted that control of volume with a bass player that's playing upright. 00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:51.360 You get quiet, really quiet, and you punch it. 00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:53.679 It's hard to do that with electric instruments. 00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:57.360 Once you plug into your Marshall and your AMPEG, they're there, you know. 00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:03.199 So I'm always searching for a way to say something new on the drum set. 00:45:03.440 --> 00:45:08.239 But like I say, you you know that contemporary music needs that pulse. 00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:21.039 And I wasn't afraid of what was happening in the 80s with electronic drums, but there was a moment where you think, okay, Human League and Thomas Dolby and all those bands, they don't need a drummer. 00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:23.199 And they're having massive hits. 00:45:23.599 --> 00:45:29.119 But there was also new wave bands that had real drummers the Cars, B-52s, Gary Newman. 00:45:29.280 --> 00:45:32.880 So it's possible to be a real drummer in a new wave situation. 00:45:33.199 --> 00:45:36.000 And that was 85 or 82, whatever it was. 00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:40.079 But I started realizing don't be afraid of change. 00:45:40.239 --> 00:45:44.000 Don't be afraid of what technology can do to music. 00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:49.039 Embrace it and put one foot in there and keep one foot where you like it. 00:45:49.119 --> 00:45:49.679 You know what I mean? 00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:51.280 So let's let's talk gear for a second. 00:45:51.519 --> 00:45:53.360 Like, what are you playing now? 00:45:53.519 --> 00:45:55.920 Are you experimenting with some of the uh electronic kits?

00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:59.599 Are you experimenting with some of you know the other technology? 00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:00.239 Mm-hmm. 00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:06.719 Well, my my heart and soul is an acoustic trap kit. 00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:13.119 When I can play drum set with drum heads and cymbals, I can really speak and it speaks back. 00:46:13.280 --> 00:46:23.119 When you go into the electronic world and you're picking sounds, even though the dynamics and the sensitivity is amazing now, there's something that is less personal about that. 00:46:23.360 --> 00:46:29.360 Not that it's good or bad, but I don't feel a personal connection to the electric drum sounds, but I love hearing them. 00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:34.400 You know, you can't get that from a regular drum set. 00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:36.800 But it also changes the way you drum. 00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:38.800 I I like the pitter-patter on my kick. 00:46:40.320 --> 00:46:40.800 You know what I mean? 00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:41.519 Soft and loud. 00:46:42.079 --> 00:46:45.760 You gotta be careful when you have electric drum sounds because they take up a lot of space, you know. 00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:48.239 So boom, boom, ka. 00:46:48.719 --> 00:46:52.000 You don't want to be pitter-patter on your kick drum with those kind of samples. 00:46:52.159 --> 00:47:02.400 But I do enjoy that hybrid drum set of a real drum kit, a couple pads, pick some sounds that maybe one or two per song. 00:47:02.639 --> 00:47:11.679 Uh, maybe one song go completely electric and take the sound of the of the band into a new world off the acoustic drum set. 00:47:12.079 --> 00:47:25.440 You know, what's happening in the world of live music and everybody playing the tracks and having this incredible mix happening, even if the band stops playing, the tracks are rolling and it sounds great. 00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:32.719 Nothing wrong with that, but I think that's taken away the the journey a little bit. 00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:37.679 The journey of who you are and what you've been through and how you can deliver that message to people. 00:47:38.239 --> 00:47:44.800 And there is no battle, I think, between electronic music and and acoustic music. 00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:49.760 There shouldn't be a battle between, you know, the the jazz drummers and the rock drummer. 00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:56.400 Everyone should mend, but there is a place where you feel comfortable, and it's okay to grow out of that. 00:47:56.480 --> 00:47:59.280 But my comfort my comfort zone is a real drum set. 00:47:59.679 --> 00:48:04.480 Um, you know, looking at DWE now, they're electric drums with no wires, no cables. 00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:05.119 So cool. 00:48:05.360 --> 00:48:06.239 It's incredible. 00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:24.800 Imagine being now in a marching band, so a guy in the laptop is walking near the band, keeping your sounds, and you're on a roller playing a drum set, but it's it's going through a PA somehow, you know, or doing a halftime show, rolling a drum set out with no microphones, just because it's e-drums. 00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:28.320 And so there is something great about that opportunity. 00:48:28.400 --> 00:48:33.840 And for a young person who can't play at a rehearsal place, put headphones on, you play all day and night. 00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:36.079 If I had that as a kid, who know where I'd be now? 00:48:36.159 --> 00:48:40.719 Because I was allowed to play from you know, after whatever homework from 5 p.m. 00:48:40.880 --> 00:48:43.840 to 8 p.m., that's it, you know, or play on your pillow. 00:48:44.079 --> 00:48:51.360 So there is that great opportunity for the electronic drummer to practice more, to expand his sounds. 00:48:51.920 --> 00:48:54.320 It's great writing songs with an electric drum set. 00:48:54.559 --> 00:48:56.000 Oh, cool, I'll pick these sounds. 00:48:58.719 --> 00:49:00.559 And all of a sudden they're they react differently. 00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:04.960 You might not stick to those sounds, but it changes the songwriting, you know. 00:49:05.199 --> 00:49:06.880 So it's a great tool. 00:49:07.119 --> 00:49:11.599 Um, things are changing so quickly in the world of electronics. 00:49:11.840 --> 00:49:13.599 I think the symbols need help. 00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:15.519 You know, they don't feel quite right. 00:49:15.679 --> 00:49:15.840 Yeah. 00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:24.719 But the drum pads, they feel amazing and the sensitivity and those mesh heads, it's definitely a great tool. 00:49:25.039 --> 00:49:41.920 So going back to acoustic kits, if you will, for a second, um drum off, uh, which is you know a guitar center multi-decade experiment of um of you know taking thousands of people competing at local stores and then coming up to like a national competition. 00:49:42.159 --> 00:49:42.480 I love that. 00:49:42.719 --> 00:49:44.880 You've been a drum uh uh judge of drum off before. 00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:49.280 I've hosted five times, I've judged over and over, I performed six of them. 00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:57.039 I brought Flea and Navarro, I did one with Tommy Lee, did one with Tony Franklin, I did one with Mike Watt performing. 00:49:57.840 --> 00:50:06.079 The drum off to me is so big in the sense that all these amateurs are practicing their butts off to get to the final. 00:50:07.119 --> 00:50:13.599 And every time you see any of these guys play, or girls, there's ideas that I haven't thought of. 00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:16.800 Wow, what record are they listening to? 00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:18.480 What drum are they turned on to? 00:50:18.639 --> 00:50:21.039 What kit drum patterns are they trying to do? 00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:23.519 Because for us, Bonham had the best foot. 00:50:23.679 --> 00:50:27.679 Nowadays, the best foot is like blast beats, you know, it's a whole nother world. 00:50:28.079 --> 00:50:33.679 So I love that the spirit of everyone practicing, everyone competing. 00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:37.920 There is no best, but there is a great

moment when you see someone stand out. 00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:38.559 Yeah. 00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:41.599 And is it because they're musical? 00:50:41.760 --> 00:50:44.880 Is it because they have some incredible flash? 00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:48.800 Or is it because they just understand what it takes to move people? 00:50:49.199 --> 00:50:59.199 You know, and the drum off to me, especially the regionals that are happening around the country, it's exciting for young people to practice, get their four-minute drum soul together. 00:50:59.440 --> 00:51:01.360 And I I love that pressure. 00:51:01.519 --> 00:51:05.280 I think it's a great way to grow as a musician, as a drummer. 00:51:05.519 --> 00:51:06.559 It's humbling too. 00:51:06.719 --> 00:51:09.119 You think you're a badass and someone else is better. 00:51:09.280 --> 00:51:10.079 It hurts. 00:51:10.239 --> 00:51:11.280 But it makes you practice. 00:51:11.360 --> 00:51:19.440 And same with all the great judges, Arnoff and Josh, all those cats are watching these people going, whoa, did you see what that guy did? 00:51:19.519 --> 00:51:21.039 I never even thought that was possible. 00:51:21.199 --> 00:51:24.880 And this guy is a young, you know, not a professional. 00:51:25.199 --> 00:51:31.760 So that that drum off, I guess, environment is good for the pros. 00:51:32.320 --> 00:51:41.920 It's good for the amateurs, it's good for the spirit of drumming to really put your balls to the wall and see what you bring to the table. 00:51:42.159 --> 00:51:45.280 You know, and some of my best drumming is not in front of people. 00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:46.960 Sometimes I'm alone and I do something. 00:51:47.039 --> 00:51:48.480 I'm like, oh my God. 00:51:48.639 --> 00:51:50.639 And I'm in front of people, I can't pull it off. 00:51:50.800 --> 00:51:53.039 I feel for you, drummers, that have that same thing. 00:51:53.119 --> 00:51:56.159 Like, man, the solo at home last night was epic. 00:51:56.320 --> 00:52:02.239 Today, in front of everybody, I dropped the stick, or the hi-hat clutch broke, or something broke the vibe. 00:52:02.639 --> 00:52:06.400 But that's probably the that moment you grow. 00:52:06.559 --> 00:52:10.800 I think the drum off is a growing experiment. 00:52:10.960 --> 00:52:13.360 It's not just a winning and losing. 00:52:13.519 --> 00:52:18.960 It's to help drummers grow and unite, and it's a hang for days. 00:52:19.280 --> 00:52:20.400 Such a good hang. 00:52:20.960 --> 00:52:25.840 And that to me is a community I want to be part of, you know. 00:52:26.159 --> 00:52:32.559 There's something harsh about losing, but we're all just kind of just playing drums. 00:52:32.639 --> 00:52:34.880 I mean, you're a winner if you get to play drums in front of people. 00:52:35.199 --> 00:52:35.679 That's it. 00:52:35.760 --> 00:52:38.800 I mean, you got a lot of winners. 00:52:38.880 --> 00:52:47.280 I mean, just to go to districts or regionals, like that's a that's a great platform to push yourself to see other great drummers. 00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:48.159 Exactly. 00:52:48.320 --> 00:52:52.480 To watch other great drummers and to have a reason to go home and practice more. 00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:54.800 That's what happens to the next, yeah. 00:52:54.880 --> 00:53:00.639 And then but the day after the drum off, I go home and go, oh God, I gotta, I really gotta practice, man. 00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:01.360 I never saw something. 00:53:01.599 --> 00:53:03.840 Go, I never knew you can do that. 00:53:04.079 --> 00:53:05.519 Okay, how did he do that? 00:53:05.599 --> 00:53:06.400 And why? 00:53:06.559 --> 00:53:09.280 And is there a purpose for it in song? 00:53:09.679 --> 00:53:16.960 That's also something the drum off, I think this year is gonna bring, is the understanding, can they play to music, not just the solo? 00:53:17.440 --> 00:53:19.360 That is important, you know. 00:53:19.599 --> 00:53:28.000 Uh you see these cats on on, you know, the YouTube drum extravaganza drummers are just like, wow. 00:53:28.159 --> 00:53:29.920 But can they push a band for an hour? 00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:32.480 Can they can they hold that's a whole nother world? 00:53:32.719 --> 00:53:33.280 That's a different thing. 00:53:33.519 --> 00:53:35.199 Yeah, it's really quite different. 00:53:35.360 --> 00:53:38.880 So all those things are gonna get shown, you blow the dust off. 00:53:38.960 --> 00:53:44.800 Any, you know, and and also it makes a drummer realize their weaknesses and their strengths. 00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:46.719 And I know my weaknesses. 00:53:46.960 --> 00:53:49.679 It's funner to work on my strengths because it's easy. 00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:54.480 It's painful to work on your your weaknesses, but it's important to realize them. 00:53:54.639 --> 00:54:02.719 And when you watch those other drummers, you're like, I need to work on my left hand or I need to work on my hi-hat patterns, or whatever it is you think you you might need help on. 00:54:02.880 --> 00:54:09.119 You know, oh, listen, that guy playing clavet with the left foot on a cowbell, and then, you know, and I gotta practice that. 00:54:09.199 --> 00:54:12.639 I don't practice that enough because that's that sounded cool, you know. 00:54:13.039 --> 00:54:19.440 Well, uh, you were um inducted into the rock walk in uh I believe 2011. 00:54:19.760 --> 00:54:20.719 That was a good honor. 00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:22.239 That was a great honor, really. 00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:29.840 Uh Dave Weiderman, uh who sold me my first drum set in 1980, was Was that in the Hollywood? 00:54:30.320 --> 00:54:34.800 That would no, that was a place called Valley Arts Laurel Canyon. 00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:36.239 It got burnt down. 00:54:36.800 --> 00:54:38.079 We're not sure who lit the fire. 00:54:38.239 --> 00:54:39.440 I don't think it was GC. 00:54:39.760 --> 00:54:42.159 Someone lit the fire and burnt that place down. 00:54:42.480 --> 00:54:53.840 But um, when Weiderman asked Jane's Addiction to be part of this

great rock walk at GC on sunset, it's just like, yes, please, that sounds like a great day. 00:54:54.079 --> 00:54:57.039 And Dave called me, he goes, Where would you like your hands to be? 00:54:57.199 --> 00:54:59.440 I said, as close to Jimmy Page as possible. 00:54:59.599 --> 00:55:00.079 Yeah, exactly. 00:55:00.320 --> 00:55:02.079 So he put us underneath the yard birds. 00:55:02.320 --> 00:55:02.719 Oh, that's great. 00:55:02.960 --> 00:55:10.239 So when you're standing on the Jane's Addiction hands, you see Jeff Beck clapped in and Jimmy Page's hands, and then you go step back, there's Jane's addiction. 00:55:10.559 --> 00:55:14.159 So I was like, I bring my son there, I'm like, don't worry about us. 00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:16.079 There's Jimmy Page's hand. 00:55:16.320 --> 00:55:17.599 It's close to mine. 00:55:18.000 --> 00:55:33.760 But yeah, there's something great about making an imprint in LA and having that LA imprint go worldwide, and then have a guitar center tip their hat to us and say, you know, yeah, rock and roll is it's a powerful force. 00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:46.079 And to be part of that rock and roll stew, Jane's addiction, to be in there with cream or traffic, or any of the bands that we grew up with, Sabbath, Fog Hat, whatever, that soup. 00:55:46.320 --> 00:55:48.400 Jane's Addiction is in that soup now. 00:55:48.559 --> 00:55:50.239 I mean, that's massive to me. 00:55:50.400 --> 00:56:00.079 That's really, you know, to have in and in porno and infectious and the other groups I've played with, to be part of that rock and roll stew is just an honor. 00:56:00.320 --> 00:56:05.360 And to be an ingredient in what, you know, because rock and roll is so young. 00:56:05.679 --> 00:56:10.639 I mean, my God, when Jane's addiction started 85, 30 years prior, was Elvis. 00:56:11.039 --> 00:56:12.880 It's it's amazing to think, right? 00:56:13.199 --> 00:56:14.800 And what a difference in three decades. 00:56:15.119 --> 00:56:16.239 And Elvis was controversial. 00:56:16.719 --> 00:56:17.440 Exactly, man. 00:56:17.760 --> 00:56:19.119 And that's only 30 years. 00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:21.039 Now, Jane's Addiction is 40 years old. 00:56:21.119 --> 00:56:26.000 Things changed a lot since then, but still, you've got to be dangerous to be a rocker. 00:56:26.079 --> 00:56:28.159 You gotta add a little of that danger, man. 00:56:28.480 --> 00:56:29.920 Well, that's what that's what changes music. 00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:30.880 Exactly, man. 00:56:30.960 --> 00:56:31.440 You gotta break it. 00:56:32.320 --> 00:56:32.559 Exactly. 00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:33.519 You break it, man. 00:56:33.599 --> 00:56:43.039 And you know, there's something great about what you know, Aerosmith or G and R or some of the bands are straight ahead rock bands. 00:56:43.199 --> 00:56:48.000 And then you see the punk bands, and you see the new wave bands, and you see the goth bands. 00:56:48.079 --> 00:56:52.960 But we all have the same people practicing in our bedroom

at eight years old or ten years old. 00:56:53.119 --> 00:56:57.039 The genre might be different, but it's you in love with your music, you know. 00:56:57.199 --> 00:57:00.960 I still have a romance with my hands and my drumsticks. 00:57:01.440 --> 00:57:05.679 I just, it's it's I have very small fingers. 00:57:05.840 --> 00:57:08.400 My son can wrap his thumb around the top of the guitar. 00:57:08.480 --> 00:57:10.079 I look how small that guy is. 00:57:10.239 --> 00:57:13.039 He's he's good for holding drumsticks, you know what I mean? 00:57:13.199 --> 00:57:18.639 And that's what I feel good about when I get the sticks in my hand and and play. 00:57:19.039 --> 00:57:22.960 Uh, there's something quite unique about that feeling. 00:57:23.039 --> 00:57:31.440 You get, you know, people talk about the runner's high and at a different kind of elevation when you get when you're doing, you know, possible meditation. 00:57:31.920 --> 00:57:36.320 Drummers are running and meditating at the same time and repainting. 00:57:36.559 --> 00:57:37.440 You know what I mean? 00:57:37.679 --> 00:57:47.199 And there's so much going on in a drummer's head, especially if you're using all four limbs, it's really quite you have to be quite activated and relaxed at the same time. 00:57:47.840 --> 00:57:55.840 And that is, I think, charming really to find something in your life that makes you feel level. 00:57:56.159 --> 00:58:01.840 And like I say, no matter what genre you're into, you sit alone and you practice. 00:58:02.320 --> 00:58:05.280 It's just you, and you see yourself getting better at something. 00:58:05.679 --> 00:58:11.440 And then you can show that to people, not to get the tap on the back, but to turn them on, you know. 00:58:12.079 --> 00:58:16.320 When Slash plays guitar, people are like, ah, it feels good, you know. 00:58:16.480 --> 00:58:19.599 And Satriani does a solo that's out of this world. 00:58:19.840 --> 00:58:21.920 Like, my God, it's Steve Vai. 00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:27.840 Watching Steve Vai for fuck five minutes or an hour and five minutes, it just enlightens me. 00:58:28.079 --> 00:58:31.119 Terry Bozio, one of my favorite drummers of all time. 00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:36.880 I'm very lucky to get to meet some of these guys and have a handshake and get eyes with these guys. 00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:38.159 You talk about small hands. 00:58:38.239 --> 00:58:40.559 Uh Steve Vai is in the rock walk. 00:58:40.719 --> 00:58:43.519 And um, I went and I put my hands in his hands. 00:58:43.679 --> 00:58:45.360 His hands are full, like two inches longer. 00:58:46.559 --> 00:58:47.039 That's what I'm saying. 00:58:47.519 --> 00:58:48.639 They're like his hands are this big. 00:58:48.800 --> 00:58:49.599 He's built for guitar. 00:58:49.840 --> 00:58:50.400 He's born for it. 00:58:50.559 --> 00:58:51.039 He's built for it. 00:58:51.280 --> 00:58:56.639 You know, and that's that's pretty cool too, to at the drum off, to see all these people that are built for the instrument. 00:58:56.800 --> 00:59:02.239 And we're all different sizes, different shows, we sit differently, we play differently, but that instrument called us. 00:59:02.400 --> 00:59:05.679 And we all drummers know what it takes to do that. 00:59:07.760 --> 00:59:08.639 Okay, relax. 00:59:08.719 --> 00:59:10.719 Don't get stiff, or you know. 00:59:11.039 --> 00:59:24.960 And and real quick, even when things happen on stage or in front of people that can possibly humiliate you, it's like a like Shaq doing a free throw and not making it. 00:59:25.360 --> 00:59:26.159 Are you kidding me? 00:59:26.239 --> 00:59:26.960 It's a free throw. 00:59:27.119 --> 00:59:27.679 You're Shaq. 00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:29.039 You can't make that. 00:59:29.599 --> 00:59:34.559 I was doing a drum clinic once and I didn't warm up correctly, and I got a cramp. 00:59:35.119 --> 00:59:38.079 And instead of me freaking out, I said, All right, let's learn from this. 00:59:38.239 --> 00:59:39.360 I'm cramping. 00:59:39.599 --> 00:59:40.960 It's gonna happen to anybody. 00:59:41.119 --> 00:59:41.760 I'm a pro. 00:59:41.920 --> 00:59:42.480 You're not. 00:59:42.639 --> 00:59:43.679 It's happening to me. 00:59:43.760 --> 00:59:47.280 I cannot let's talk about cramping. 00:59:47.440 --> 00:59:49.920 Instead of me going, ah, hey, no, hold on. 00:59:50.079 --> 00:59:52.159 I made it, I took a made a lesson of it. 00:59:52.559 --> 00:59:57.199 So that's also something great about music and instruments alone. 00:59:57.440 --> 00:59:58.960 You can learn from your mistakes. 00:59:59.119 --> 01:00:04.079 You can share your problems with the instrument with other people, learn how to get through it. 01:00:04.239 --> 01:00:07.679 Uh, talking to Kenny Aronoff, one of the great drummers of all time. 01:00:08.239 --> 01:00:10.400 I'm not sure how old he is, 110. 01:00:10.559 --> 01:00:11.199 But whatever he's doing. 01:00:12.320 --> 01:00:17.760 We did a podcast with Kenny, and um also a great storyteller, a great story. 01:00:17.920 --> 01:00:20.000 Yeah, like world-class drummer. 01:00:20.239 --> 01:00:22.320 I mean, he's amazing, incredibly humble, too. 01:00:22.800 --> 01:00:33.840 Sweet, humble guy, and I like talking about how do you keep your body in shape, how do you keep that endurance, how do you keep the love of the instrument so real? 01:00:34.559 --> 01:00:36.320 He's not a fraud at any moment. 01:00:36.480 --> 01:00:37.119 You know what I mean? 01:00:37.199 --> 01:00:38.639 He's the real deal. 01:00:38.880 --> 01:00:43.840 And and looking at young drummers or older drummers and thinking, how do you do it? 01:00:44.159 --> 01:00:48.960 Longevity, how do you stay relevant? 01:00:49.599 --> 01:00:54.079 And how do you stay with the endurance and the stamina, all those things, you know? 01:00:54.239 --> 01:00:56.480 It's cool to see intensely physical score. 01:00:56.719 --> 01:00:57.599 Oh, it's insane. 01:00:57.760 --> 01:01:08.079 Yeah, and you know, touring chops is way different than session chops, you know, and you can practice all day long, but once you get on tour or on stage, something changes. 01:01:08.159 --> 01:01:11.280 It's like playing basketball at practice or at the game. 01:01:11.519 --> 01:01:13.760 At the game, it's a lot harder than practice, man. 01:01:13.840 --> 01:01:14.719 It's just the way it is. 01:01:14.800 --> 01:01:16.960 You're in the moment, live or die. 01:01:17.039 --> 01:01:25.760 But Aronoff and some of the cats that were 10 years above me already doing it, and they're still doing it. 01:01:26.079 --> 01:01:28.159 Like, okay, man, we're lifers. 01:01:28.320 --> 01:01:31.119 You know, we're not we're athletes, but we don't have to call it quits. 01:01:31.199 --> 01:01:31.360 Yeah. 01:01:31.519 --> 01:01:32.960 We can keep going, you know. 01:01:33.360 --> 01:01:34.000 Absolutely. 01:01:34.159 --> 01:01:36.719 Well, thank you for joining us, uh Steven. 01:01:37.119 --> 01:01:38.159 What a pleasure. 01:01:38.320 --> 01:01:39.679 Uh, what a great story. 01:01:39.920 --> 01:01:40.400 It's great. 01:01:40.639 --> 01:01:48.559 And um thank you for thank you for being like such bringing such incredible artistry to your music. 01:01:48.800 --> 01:01:53.599 I listened to it um, you know, growing up and uh just love what you've done. 01:01:53.920 --> 01:01:54.239 Thank you. 01:01:54.400 --> 01:01:55.519 So thank you for joining us. 01:01:55.679 --> 01:01:59.280 Thanks for um being part of the Rockwalk, being part of Drum Off. 01:01:59.679 --> 01:02:01.599 Um really appreciate all your contributions. 01:02:01.840 --> 01:02:02.880 It's a pleasure, man. 01:02:03.119 --> 01:02:07.519 GC, thank you for all your help and all those drummers out there. 01:02:07.599 --> 01:02:08.960 I can't wait to see what you're gonna do. 01:02:09.280 --> 01:02:10.800 It's gonna be amazing. 01:02:11.039 --> 01:02:13.199 It is, it's amazing.