התמלול המלא של From Tracking Osama bin Laden to Writing Spy Thrillers with Lizzy Wright | Industry Leader Insights

kind of sleeping hours did you have? 00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:31.759 Like what were some of the things that you can share when it comes to that experience? 00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:32.479 Yeah. 00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:40.400 Well, the the reality is there are 24-hour operations going on all the time in intelligence, right? 00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:49.360 So that the fact that, you know, those types of out working unusual hours, that was not out of the norm. 00:02:49.599 --> 00:02:58.000 However, I had a kind of a unique situation that I was also doing my master's at Georgetown on weekends and nights. 00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:04.400 So all of that got pretty crazy where I was trying to get my master's, trying to do my work. 00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:10.560 We were running, you know, some hours out of outside the operations center. 00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:16.960 So I don't really honestly remember much sleeping during those years. 00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:23.439 And it was not only the physical toll, the psychological toll. 00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:36.240 And what I can tell you is the feeling of being in intelligence at that time and the weight of one, how did we miss it? 00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:39.120 Two, how are we going to get him? 00:03:39.199 --> 00:03:40.800 You know, he's gone underground. 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:43.039 Things were things were difficult, right? 00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:45.520 You had the entire world blasting information. 00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:47.759 How do you sort through all the noise? 00:03:48.000 --> 00:04:01.919 So it wasn't just, you know, the physical hours, of course, you know, the physical toll, but far more than anything was the psychological toll of carrying the weight of our job was to make sure 9-11 never happened, right? 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:10.639 So even though you could say, hey, I was 23, you know, first job out of college, you still feel like this is your mission. 00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:14.960 Your mission is to it's national security to keep Americans safe. 00:04:15.199 --> 00:04:20.720 So to carry that weight, um, and all of my colleagues carried that weight too. 00:04:20.959 --> 00:04:24.480 That that's an unbearable psychological burden. 00:04:24.560 --> 00:04:39.279 Now, I'm not saying it wasn't justified, I feel it was, and it probably made us even more kind of focused on the mission because we felt such a personal commitment, but the toll is the toll nonetheless. 00:04:39.839 --> 00:04:42.079 What did you feel like in the way of your safety? 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:50.399 You're a young person, you're involved in criminal activity, the world is shaken, you're part of the counterterrorism. 00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:53.519 How did you emotionally handle this in your 20s? 00:04:53.839 --> 00:04:55.920 I don't think well, to be honest. 00:04:56.160 --> 00:04:58.240 I'm not, I'm not sure any of us. 00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:05.439 I mean, if you think about in inside of intelligence or not, everybody knows where they were on

9-11, right? 00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:10.639 It can describe the scene, the color of the sky, the the friend they were with. 00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:17.040 So I think all of us, you know, it it's it's a it was a moment in time. 00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:22.560 The only beautiful thing that came from that experience was it it brought us together, right? 00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:27.360 We had this common mission, this need to support each other. 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:31.839 And there is nothing like a crisis to bring people together. 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:36.399 And if that that really was the only beautiful thing in it. 00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:40.720 However, of course, I, you know, I didn't cope well. 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:42.399 I didn't know what to do. 00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:50.480 My marriage fell apart, my hours were crazy, my schoolwork obviously, you know, was an afterthought. 00:05:50.639 --> 00:06:03.040 I mean, there were so many things that if you if you if I look personally at my life back in those those days and months and years following 9-11, it really is a blur. 00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:09.439 And I'm not sure there's a there's any other way to describe it. 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:24.160 And that's part of why I wrote the book too, is to talk about like what the personal experience is in a world like this, going through that at a young age and feeling those obligations and feeling that that pressure. 00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:32.160 So, how did it feel to you when he was finally taken out and that and that the regime of what he had was finally over? 00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:39.120 You know, my first thought was not about how I felt, but about the victims' families, right? 00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:43.600 That that what I wanted more than anything for them was closure. 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:48.160 And, you know, there, I'm not sure even that gave the closure. 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:51.279 I think we every person would have an individual journey there. 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:58.240 Some could say, you know, Khalid Sheikh Muhammad is still alive, he's still in git mode, I they don't have closure, right? 00:06:58.319 --> 00:07:04.079 One of the masterminds is still served, you know, serving and not not gone from this earth. 00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:19.680 But that's the that's the feeling I had is if if this for any of the families helped bring some closure, that there was some form of justice, then then you know, I it was a drop of my shoulders of of a bit of relief, right? 00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:22.399 Because this was an incredibly hard target. 00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:28.000 And to have that for families meant meant the most to me. 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:33.519 So one of the things you wanted to do, you said, was to be in politics or to be part of government. 00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:41.439 So how did you transition from that career path to the next 10, 5, 10, 15 years of your life career? 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:42.000 Right. 00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:50.560 What happened a couple years after 9-11, so much of the intelligence community rightfully was under scrutiny. 00:07:50.800 --> 00:07:56.480 And the FBI needed to stand up an analytic arm around counterterrorism. 00:07:56.959 --> 00:08:15.759 And what happened was Booz Allen Hamilton had won this contract to help stand up an analytic arm focused on counterterrorism, and they cherry-picked folks from inside the intelligence community to create a diverse team of individuals who had done that work on the inside. 00:08:15.920 --> 00:08:30.399 So basically, overnight, I just changed who my employer was and ended up back at FBI, helping kind of on a large team standing up, you know, partnering with the government to stand up this capability. 00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:44.799 So then once you're in a big consultancy like that, eventually I was able to diversify and go into organizational change, communications, all these other skills that you learn and grow and develop in consulting. 00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:53.440 So ultimately moved into other parts of national security and then homeland security, and then even broader. 00:08:53.600 --> 00:09:05.440 By the end, I was part of a not at Booz Allen at the time, but I was part of the team that was working on the FAFSA forms and getting IRS data to pre-populate in the FAFSA forms for for students. 00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:07.120 Now that took a very long time. 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:14.320 But that's I give you that example to, you know, the beautiful thing of consulting in the federal government is you can have a wide range of clients, right? 00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:20.080 And and by the end, I was pretty far afield from intelligence, the intelligence community. 00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:32.399 So, what I love about your book and where we're going to be having this conversation go is if anyone could write a book on espionage and spy and really cool fiction, you're the person to do it. 00:09:32.720 --> 00:09:33.279 Well, thank you. 00:09:33.440 --> 00:09:54.000 There are actually a handful of us from the intelligence community, very few of them actually track bin Laden, but some did, that are writing spy fiction and not the James Bond version that everybody seems to know and love, a more real depiction of what it feels like to be on the inside. 00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:57.759 So when did you decide that you wanted to write a book? 00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:00.480 What age were you where you started to have that seed planted? 00:10:00.720 --> 00:10:04.639 Yeah, you know, shockingly, the day before I started writing. 00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:12.639 And that sounds bizarre, but when you talk about the art of the pivot, when when I think about it, I don't overthink, right? 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:22.159 I I fast forward, was was in financial services, knew I wanted to do something to expand my creative capabilities. 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:24.480 You know, they had been dormant for so long, right? 00:10:24.559 -->

00:10:26.000 I lived in PowerPoint. 00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:32.480 And literally the night before, I decided to start writing a book. 00:10:32.639 --> 00:10:35.919 Now I started in nonfiction, actually in sports nonfiction. 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:37.039 I'm a longtime athlete. 00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:39.440 I'm married to a former professional athlete. 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:43.039 So that's where I started, almost to like sharpen my teeth. 00:10:43.279 --> 00:10:58.000 And but all along, this book, Saffron Spy, was in my mind of how can I tell the story of what I did because it was truly so unreal, and process it through writing. 00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:03.840 And so I could not write nonfiction, but I could write this book, which was based on that. 00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:04.559 Fantastic. 00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:14.159 It really kind of evolved, but I knew it was in my mind's eye that I wanted to put pen to paper, if if nothing else, a form of therapy, which I think some writing can be. 00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:15.200 A hundred percent. 00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:17.120 This is what I've heard from other authors. 00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:19.279 As an athlete, what sport did you play? 00:11:19.519 --> 00:11:26.639 I was soccer, basketball, and track for forever and played soccer in my into my mid-30s. 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:30.960 So not at a high level, but you know, I've been an athlete my whole life. 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:37.840 And so, you know, I it just kind of came naturally to tell the stories of athletes for them. 00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:40.480 And it's it started from there. 00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:46.879 And I jokingly call my first pancake a memoir I wrote for my husband who was in the NFL. 00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:53.120 And of course, looking back on that, where there are a million things I'd I'd change now, of course, but that's how you learn. 00:11:53.279 --> 00:12:00.399 And so then I went on to write another athlete's story that did exceptionally well and that was really exciting. 00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:03.600 And so I knew I knew I had some ability. 00:12:03.759 --> 00:12:08.320 Now, you know, am I are you gonna see me on the New York Times bestseller list anytime soon? 00:12:08.480 --> 00:12:11.519 Well, no, but there's always the next couple books. 00:12:11.679 --> 00:12:14.480 But the beautiful thing of writing is it's it's an evolution. 00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:18.240 Like any profession, you grow, and that's the that's the fun part. 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:22.399 And so I'm with you on what you just said and where we grow too. 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:43.440 We don't actually know where the destination is, but we're doing a podcast together today because we're sharing a story that there's people out there that look for spy podcasts and conversations like what we're having, and we're able to inspire and help other people maybe find their greatness, which is again servant leadership and the ability to want to give information to others. 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:46.240 We're gonna get to covering all the books in a little bit. 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:50.080 And as we do, I want to start with the saffron spy story. 00:12:50.159 --> 00:12:58.799 And so, my first question to you as we go through this is how do you build enough trust as an author to help someone navigate their darkest moments? 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:02.000 Yeah, that's a tricky one. 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:11.840 So the second book I wrote called Morenevich, so this is an athlete, Todd Morenevich, who struggles with addiction. 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:14.559 And I say struggles as an active. 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:30.399 And uh he uh trusted me with his story, and we met weekly over the course of a year, uh, because largely because my husband had protected him on the offensive line for the Raiders. 00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:37.279 So I benefited from some trust that was there long before I was on the scene. 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:54.240 So whether whether it's cheating or you know, work in the system, hey, you know, it was it led to a remarkable level of candor because he trusted me because he trusted my husband. 00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:59.919 So that story never would have been what it came to be without that trust. 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:02.399 And how do you do that with someone you don't know? 00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:05.759 To be honest with you, I don't think any anything replaces time. 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:08.960 It's time on the court, time on the field, time together. 00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:25.279 And I know the more time Todd and I spent together, the more he could just build beyond that foundation that he had with my husband to really trust me as someone who would tell his story in a way that reflected him authentically. 00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:28.399 Because whenever you're writing someone else's story, it's a tricky business. 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:28.879 Yeah. 00:14:29.679 --> 00:14:32.399 And again, they want to make sure that it's in their voice. 00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:41.360 And as I've written four books, I find that when my co-authors or my ghostwriters have helped me, they're finding my voice and what it is that I want in the book. 00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:41.600 Yeah. 00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:45.360 And they just happen to be the writers of my of my contact. 00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:50.159 They're my news, in some words, to be able to pull that out of us and give us perfection. 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:50.879 Yes. 00:14:51.120 --> 00:15:01.600 And if you told me that I would be able to channel NFL quarterback in terms of my how I spoke and how I wrote, I wouldn't believe you. 00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:05.279 But this is the beautiful thing of getting into a creative space. 00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:10.639 You start to realize you have skills that you didn't even know, and you can continue to cultivate them. 00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:13.120 I never would have thought I could get in that voice. 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:19.120

Yet I had his mother tell me, point blank, you that I feel like Todd wrote every word of this. 00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:23.039 And of course, I wrote every word, but I channeled Todd. 00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:24.559 Yeah, it's fantastic. 00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:26.639 Now, you did go to a beautiful school. 00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:29.120 Did you get your master's or was it just undergrad? 00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:37.039 So, well, I went to Harvard undergrad, and then so then I was recruited into intelligence and figured I'd continue my education on the side. 00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:48.639 So my master's is from Georgetown, but not in anything that would necessarily relate to writing, although my my master's thesis, oddly, is on the origins of atomic diplomacy. 00:15:48.799 --> 00:16:01.039 So I was actually looking at troop movements, the Soviet and Russian troop movements at that time as it related to our decisions to either do a land invasion or to drop drop the bomb. 00:16:01.279 --> 00:16:07.759 So I once I wrote that master's thesis, I promised myself I would never write anything over 10 pages again in my life. 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:08.639 So here we are. 00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:10.000 Never here we are. 00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:11.039 It's a great story. 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:12.000 I'm loving this. 00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:14.320 So, you know, where are you meeting Todd? 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:17.840 What does a day look like when you're co-writing or working with him? 00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:18.080 Yeah. 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:23.679 And was he impatient with the process, or did he get used to working with you in the process? 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:26.720 Well, he there, it was a difficult journey. 00:16:26.960 --> 00:16:32.399 So we had, you know, I'm a I'm a type A hard driver by by nature. 00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:37.759 And so, and I, you know, ran projects, the capital group, the global projects. 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:44.159 And so I'm used to having a timeline, project plan, you know, milestones, you name it, the whole nine yards. 00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:46.720 And so I think for Todd, that was a little scary at first. 00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:48.879 So I had to bite-size it, right? 00:16:49.039 --> 00:16:56.240 So, like anything, if you it's almost like if you look at a syllabus of a course on day one, you think there's no way I can do all this, right? 00:16:56.480 --> 00:17:04.799 So I really had to be careful with Todd and make sure, because writing a book is a long, slow walk. 00:17:05.119 --> 00:17:07.599 And it's painful at times. 00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:16.079 And so basically giving it bite-sized of let's talk about this experience in your childhood, let's talk about your days at USC. 00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:25.920 So bite-sizing it and allowing me behind the scenes to figure out how I was gonna weave it all together was the only way I could get him to stay on board. 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:30.240 Now he openly admitted there were times he didn't want to do this anymore. 00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:31.680 Like he was gonna quit. 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:35.119 Because we his journey is not all roses. 00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:38.160 His journey, in fact, is more thorns than roses. 00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:50.559 And that's incredibly painful to dig up dark, hard experiences from his childhood and from his from his years, and and with or even the Raiders and after. 00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:53.359 So this is not for the faint of heart. 00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:59.839 And I am extraordinarily proud of him for doing it because more than anything, put the football aside. 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:03.279 That's the that's the avenue to get people to read the book. 00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:09.359 This book is more about the struggle with identity and the struggle to really find himself. 00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:12.799 This is a man who is an exceptionally talented quarterback. 00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:16.240 First round in the in the NFL draft, ahead of Brett Favre. 00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:21.759 And I mean, the promise for him, best high school quarterback in the nation, right? 00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:26.720 So this this kid from from the start, that the sky was the limit. 00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:37.839 So imagine not being able to truly sink into that identity and feel like you're you're a sham and it's not who you are that entire journey. 00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:40.400 So I I I've heard this story before. 00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:46.400 I have people I've interviewed where they won the Stanley Cup or the Super Bowl, and they have they have the fraud identity. 00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:48.880 They only know themselves as who they were as kids. 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:54.079 They never really grew into who they were as a professional, and they struggle with that. 00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:56.160 Yeah, and they struggle with it after they win. 00:18:56.240 --> 00:19:05.200 They the next day they're like they go back to who they were rather than realizing that they're Super Bowl champions or Stanley Hawk champions, Stanley Cup champions. 00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:09.440 Yeah, and and that realization that this isn't maybe what it's about for them. 00:19:09.599 --> 00:19:10.880 And some it is, and that's great. 00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:19.759 I guess it's not a criticism of anyone, but we're all you know, the reality and what books, I mean, spy novels, sports, nonfiction, you name it. 00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:31.200 At the core, the human experience, how we act self-actualize, is the core of all of my writing and all the writing that I read, frankly. 00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:40.000 And that's that's the journey we're we're all on, which is why people would bother to pick up a book about something that they may not otherwise read. 00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:42.319 So I'm excited about your spy story. 00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:50.079 And as I transition, there's a balance between the real-world classified trade with compelling narrative fiction.

00:19:50.319 --> 00:20:03.279 So, as a former espionage, right, consultant, FBI, all the things that you were, how did you manage putting into the book things you're allowed versus things that are trademarked or classified? 00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:13.599 Yeah, so the the reality of anyone who's been in espionage, um, at least here in the US, and I'd imagine it's true for other services, is that it's a lifelong commitment. 00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:19.440 And so you you sign, you know, you sign a wagger ability to speak openly. 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:29.920 And if you choose a path like like I've chosen to write in that genre, they review the tran the manuscripts. 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:42.960 So this could not be published without them reading every page and you know, fine-tooth comb in terms of or anything, sources and methods, anything that would compromise compromise us. 00:20:43.119 --> 00:20:45.279 And on one hand, you could say, oh, that's unfortunate. 00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:47.200 You know, something you signed when you were 23. 00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:52.160 Now, you know, at this point in life writing a spy, spy fiction that you're still obligated. 00:20:52.400 --> 00:21:01.119 Well, here's the reality is that I I understand that any compromise of sources and methods puts people at risk. 00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:20.160 And so, sure, it was it was painful to have to do that, but at the same time, I don't want anything I say or do in the writing of this, in speaking about this book, to ever harm anyone who is doing this difficult work because this isn't this is tough stuff. 00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:31.920 And you know, the more it's a it's a trade-off, and I I struggle with it personally too, a trade-off of what to share, how to share it, and make sure you do it in a way so nothing is compromised. 00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:32.799 Yeah. 00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:34.079 Nice answer. 00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:38.319 And again, it enlightens us, the listeners, to what's happening. 00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:44.720 And so, what is the biggest misconception fiction gets wrong about the intelligence community? 00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:59.759 Yeah, so the the glamour factor that not only in writing but movies and TV series, you know, all these all these shows, they really make it far more glamorous than it than it actually is. 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:00.480 Yeah. 00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:11.680 And I think, you know, look, I think there's a level of it should should be tantalizing and it should be exciting, or else why would you read it or watch a show? 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:16.880 But there is a need for the kind of the gritty realness. 00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:25.119 And, you know, not I am not a fan of reality television, but by any means, despite my husband having been on Survivor. 00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:25.599 Right. 00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:38.799 But I there is something that comes with the gritty truth that while it might not be as pleasant to read or watch, I think for certain people it's it's fascinating. 00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:57.839 And so trying to make it as real to life, and for me, focusing on the mental gymnastics that go on in that world, that's something that up until maybe it was homeland that really got into how it's kind of a mind warp, that whole world. 00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:18.559 That to me, even though it was still a little more glamour than what you'd see on the inside, it was the most dramatized yet real in terms of the struggle of you know caring for people and commitments and the effect it has on your family, all those, all those real things. 00:23:19.039 --> 00:23:27.039 So, as an author that's written many books, how do you structure suspense when the conflict is internal as well as external? 00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:30.319 Boy, I that is a great question. 00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:31.039 Thank you. 00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:45.119 I absolutely struggled with that because, and I do I know if I got it, if I hit the mark, I think the reader, you know, this is this is this is the ultimate test, the feedback you get once this book's release. 00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:57.920 I struggled with that because you want you want excitement, you want the right pacing, you want and thrillers, you need to move your audience, you know, through considerable ground. 00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:00.480 But there can be whiplash, right? 00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:08.960 I mean, you if you try to make everything suspenseful, there's gotta be, it's a little bit of a dip and you know, a peak. 00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:26.079 And you really uh what I did after writing the book is charted it out emotionally and charted it out in terms of suspense to make sure it wasn't just an exhausting sprint, or by you know, the other way, making sure it wasn't just doldrums. 00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:28.960 So it is it is about pacing, you know. 00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:30.480 There are experts. 00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:51.599 I ended up for the first time using a developmental editor, which was an incredible experience, humbling, but helping me understand from a real expert's point of view, where I had dips and and maybe some of those valleys, what to think through. 00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:54.640 And and you know, it's it's it's all part of the learning. 00:24:54.960 --> 00:24:59.279 Which is what we are continuous learners, obviously uh communicating with you. 00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:01.200 It's it's it never ends. 00:25:01.359 --> 00:25:02.880 I am loving that about you. 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:07.680 Yeah, well, and and anything I do, that's the the excitement comes in the growth. 00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:14.160 The excitement is not the award or the sales number, it's just the personal satisfaction. 00:25:14.319 --> 00:25:24.880 Now, I can say that because I started writing when it was no longer about financial focus of you know putting bread on the table, right? 00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:33.119 So I I I do feel for writers who, yeah, it's a struggle to

earn, you know, earn a living in this in this business. 00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:35.680 So enter financial services. 00:25:35.839 --> 00:25:42.960 Thank goodness I had a career with Capital Group that enabled me to write with freedom. 00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:48.720 And when you think about financial services, what it does for people more than anything is gives them freedom. 00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:49.680 I love it. 00:25:49.839 --> 00:25:52.240 How do you come up with the name Safron Spy? 00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:56.559 Okay, so short answer, there's a long story here. 00:25:56.640 --> 00:26:01.200 So I dated a an Iranian nuclear scientist, really did. 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:05.039 Now he's ultimately became a US citizen. 00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:08.880 But this was at the end of my time in intelligence. 00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:10.799 You can imagine how that went over. 00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:12.000 Not good. 00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:27.119 And his mother had moved in above us, and she had taught me how to cook, and she cooked with saffron, and the aroma of saffron, and it's it's stuck, it's a unique smell. 00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:31.359 It's not even, it's not pung pungent or anything, it's just a unique smell. 00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:34.160 Stuck with me decades later. 00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:37.599 And and you know, I have this vial of saffron. 00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:38.640 Oh my gosh. 00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:54.720 And I wanted in this book that largely focuses on Iran to have elements not just of visuals, but to me, the senses, the five senses and smell, you know, is a distinct sense. 00:26:54.880 --> 00:27:01.200 And you know, you you can walk in a room and smell something and it brings you back to your childhood or brings you back to a moment in time. 00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:22.559 And so it became woven through the story as a distinctive kind of anchor to a moment where my protagonist, Lexi Boyd, the CIA analyst who becomes an operative, remembers these smells and knows there's something more that's going on that she's not able to decipher, right? 00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:34.240 And so the story is about untangling this crazy web that she finds herself in that involves Iranian extremism, which is ironic given the timing of the war with Iran. 00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:44.240 You know, it involves operatives who don't have clean motives and a case for war with Iran that is blurry at best, right? 00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:47.279 So when I was writing this, the Iran war had not started. 00:27:47.519 --> 00:28:05.119 So it's this is one of those, you know, truth is is as crazy as fiction because this idea of our war with Iran was, you know, I had the Strait of Hormuz, I had the Babel Mendev, all these areas or these choke points in the book where we have points of conflict. 00:28:05.359 --> 00:28:07.200 And it came true. 00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:16.400 Which is crazy because you know, you hear other books like 50 years ago or the Jetsons, where all the different things

that were in the Jetsons is kind of like become real-life reality. 00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:27.680 You bet, or you think about the movie The Matrix, and now what we're you know facing with AI, and it and it's it's beyond imagination that they came up with some things that may come true to life. 00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:31.440 So, as we transition, I have a couple slides here that I want to talk about. 00:28:31.599 --> 00:28:38.319 So, where do people get this incredible book that you wrote that you're so proud of and that people have been writing great reviews about? 00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:38.960 Thanks. 00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:51.920 So LizzieWright.com, so L-I-Z-Z-Y-R-I-G-H-T, just my name.com, is my website where you you can take a look and understand more about the writing and some of my blogs. 00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:54.000 And it is on pre-order now. 00:28:54.160 --> 00:29:01.519 So it actually has not released, so it's pre-ordered and it releases on January 19th. 00:29:01.599 --> 00:29:07.200 So we have a little bit of time, but anybody who pre-orders it'll show up on your on your door then. 00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:21.359 And boy, it'll be really interesting to see now with the Iran War and the real questions about the midterms and what happens after, you know, when this book actually lands on someone's doorstep, how true to life it it it ends up being. 00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:22.480 Fantastic. 00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:23.599 Yeah, it's great. 00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:27.759 Your timing couldn't be better as as we're gonna try to sell a lot of books. 00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:34.400 Now, the next slide is you're an author, you're an author for your husband, you're an author for Tom, the quarterback, and you have your own book. 00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:37.839 So, how did this evolve that you're now the author for other people? 00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:41.119 Yeah, it it it really was not intentional. 00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:44.960 You know, when I I jokingly, and it wasn't I'm joking, but it's not. 00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:49.359 Like I literally one night said, I want to do something creative. 00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:53.839 I'm not a dancer, I'm not a singer, but I I know I can write. 00:29:54.000 --> 00:30:02.160 Like I know if I put the work in and I'm one of those, you know, buttons seat, just grind, I know I can advance, right? 00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:06.000 So literally said, how about I write your book? 00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:06.400 Right. 00:30:06.559 --> 00:30:11.759 Because my my husband, I'm a little biased, but my husband has a fascinating story. 00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:38.079 You know, he undrafted rookie out of northern Iowa, ends up on the Cowboys in the early 80s, the debauchery, the craziness, you know, ends up finishing his career with the Raiders in LA, blocking for Bo Jackson, and just an incredible career, you know, 11 years in the NFL, just the lineup of incredible athletes that he worked with that are his friends today. 00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:43.039 So I knew his story had lots of juice and a lot of appeal. 00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:48.079 And then having him on national television with Survivor, of course, we couldn't write about that. 00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:53.440 There was a whole chapter that we had to remove because of his commitment to CBS. 00:30:53.839 --> 00:31:07.359 But that book really was fun to write because what I saw in him was a man who toggled between aggression and empathy and was really struggling to kind of self-actualize. 00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:14.720 And so when that book did well, we happened to be at a Raiders reunion because they put those on every year. 00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:18.240 And Todd Morinovich was a quarterback for the Raiders. 00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:22.400 And we started talking and we went from there, right? 00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:30.079 So to be honest, I don't think Todd appreciated what he signed up for it, what how long this journey, this long, slow walk would be. 00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:40.079 But boy, the number of people who have reached out saying, Thank you, Todd, for sharing your story, because so many people had told his story, but not Todd. 00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:43.279 And so there had been a 30 for 30 ESPN. 00:31:43.359 --> 00:31:46.880 I mean, this this guy had been, he'd been in people at age 14. 00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:49.920 I mean, he had been in national news for so long. 00:31:50.079 --> 00:31:53.680 And no one knew a whole lot of things about his life. 00:31:53.759 --> 00:32:00.480 And so, you know, Sports Illustrated calling it one of the best sports memoirs that they've they've read, you know, it really gained traction. 00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:04.400 We got a lot of national, national coverage, which was fantastic. 00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:13.599 So, you know, again, the momentum here, and all the while saffron spy brewing in my head, how am I gonna write my what what I went through? 00:32:13.839 --> 00:32:14.799 And I couldn't. 00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:18.960 And I started writing it and thought, no way, this isn't gonna fly. 00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:21.759 So again, quickly turn to fiction. 00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:24.079 Are all these books uh on your website? 00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:25.759 They are, yes. 00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:26.319 Yeah. 00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:33.279 So for those listening, it's LizzieWright.com, L-I-Z-Z-Y, W-R-I-G-H-T.com. 00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:35.279 You have all of Lizzie's books there. 00:32:35.359 --> 00:32:37.200 I'm gonna recommend that you go out and get them. 00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:44.880 I want to transition, given your history, to talking a little bit about your leadership style and how it's evolved. 00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:47.599 Do you have a favorite leadership lesson? 00:32:49.279 --> 00:32:51.279 Yes, from Capital Group. 00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:55.200 And he's actually the chief operating officer now at Capital Group. 00:32:55.279 --> 00:33:03.519 But at the time when I worked for him, he was the

lead of the enterprise project management across Capital Group. 00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:23.519 And he showed me, and so I worked directly for him, he showed me through his actions what it looked like to lead with authenticity, to be vulnerable, to connect with people and to not keep a barrier, right? 00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:41.680 And he was an incredible, incredible leader, but to see him be vulnerable with his teams and to talk things through more openly than I'd seen in other leaders, boy, is that a leader you want to get behind, right? 00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:44.400 That that they all they don't try to be perfect. 00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:52.000 And so I'm I'm not surprised that he has risen to the level he is, but he was an exceptional leader. 00:33:52.160 --> 00:33:57.759 And and seeing that in action made me better, and not just in a corporate setting. 00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:07.599 The reality is that when you lead with authenticity and when you allow yourself to be a little more vulnerable, you are going to mobilize the masses. 00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:17.199 We see it in politicians, we see it in move leaders of movements, you know, that people feel it when it's real. 00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:19.519 People absolutely get inspired. 00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:22.719 And so I was very lucky to experience that. 00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:28.719 Authenticity is such an important trait that people don't realize. 00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:31.440 And I'm loving that you were able to share that here. 00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:42.559 Given how you went through school and how you went through your career, what's one or two key traits that you have that that are unique to you that you're proud of? 00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:43.199 Yeah. 00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:54.880 Well, I think one, and it doesn't apply all throughout my life, but it when it comes to my career or the things I pursue professionally, I am a bit fearless. 00:34:55.199 --> 00:35:02.960 And maybe it's because I don't necessarily spend the time thinking it through, but I do love that I'm not afraid to try things. 00:35:03.199 --> 00:35:08.159 I'm I the what's the I always say to myself, what's the worst thing that could happen? 00:35:08.320 --> 00:35:08.559 Right. 00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:11.920 So, and and that was the way I got into writing. 00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:13.920 What's the worst thing that I could that could happen? 00:35:14.159 --> 00:35:15.920 Okay, I write a book and no one reads it. 00:35:16.159 --> 00:35:18.880 That's that's not that's not bad. 00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:19.679 Right. 00:35:19.840 --> 00:35:29.360 So I think this fearlessness, and I encourage young people, you know, yes, financial security, and that for me was a big driver for a very long time. 00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:31.599 You know, Maslow's hard hierarchy. 00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:32.159 I get it. 00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:33.599 We need we need this. 00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:47.840 But when you when you are able to have that security to make choices, to take the risks, because that's that is really where the fruit is, at least in my experience. 00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:54.719 And so I would say that fear fearlessness professionally, but I would say the other part of it is I'm relentless, right? 00:35:54.960 --> 00:36:02.880 So I am a grinder, I am not naturally gifted in anything, but I will do the work. 00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:09.519 And so, you know, I even even at Harvard, I remember thinking, gosh, all these people are so smart. 00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:15.679 I knew I had to study twice as hard, twice as long, push twice, push myself twice as much. 00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:21.599 So I just I have that ability to just keep keep grinding and not give up. 00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:27.199 And so I think those are traits that are helpful in writing because it's easy to get discouraged. 00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:33.440 It's easy to get some bad reviews, it's easy to question yourself of who would want to read anything that you that I write. 00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:42.239 But if you're relentless about it and and and try to be as fearless as you can be, I think that's where really beautiful things can happen. 00:36:42.320 --> 00:36:48.800 And I know for myself, those two things have led me down a path that I never saw coming. 00:36:50.559 --> 00:37:01.679 So, you know, you're passionate, you're driven, you're disciplined, you're relentless, but there's some days when you were tested. 00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:10.079 So when there's an emergency reset needed and you're overwhelmed and the things aren't looking as pretty as they are right now, what is your reset? 00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:10.880 What do you do? 00:37:11.199 --> 00:37:13.440 Yeah, my husband is my reset. 00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:23.280 He is the eternal optimist, and I'm a bit more of a pragmatic, a little more probably airing on, well, I don't know, probably consider myself pragmatic. 00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:29.599 But he he is my anchor for remember, anything is possible, right? 00:37:29.840 --> 00:37:36.000 So, I mean, that's a frame of looking at the world that doesn't necessarily come naturally to me. 00:37:36.079 --> 00:37:41.039 And I feel so fortunate to be with someone who really looks at the world that that way. 00:37:41.199 --> 00:37:45.280 And so, you know, whether it's ideally that anchor is in yourself, right? 00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:47.119 I think that would be the perfect answer. 00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:48.800 But I'm human, right? 00:37:48.960 --> 00:38:05.440 And for me, I have the good fortune of having an amazing partner who is incredibly supportive and and shines the light on what what might be possible versus, you know, yeah, you had a bad day and that that piece, that piece sucks and it's never going anywhere. 00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:09.440 You know, that would that would be an awful thing to be coexisting with. 00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:16.159 You've definitely piqued my interest in your husband with the optimism, the

abundance, and being on a reality TV show. 00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:23.599 I'm gonna I'm gonna look forward to encouraging him to be on the podcast and and highlighting his his upside. 00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:24.719 Yeah, great. 00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:26.960 Yeah, I think uh that's why I wrote his book. 00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:28.400 I think he's a special human. 00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:29.039 Good. 00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:32.000 I have a few more questions for you on the leadership side. 00:38:32.239 --> 00:38:35.119 What's the most important lesson you ever learned? 00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:39.039 Professionally. 00:38:39.760 --> 00:38:40.559 Either one. 00:38:41.599 --> 00:38:42.960 It's your answer. 00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:44.000 Yeah. 00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:49.280 I gotta think about that one for a second. 00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:56.639 So what with that, because you weren't always financially successful, what's the most important financial lesson you ever learned? 00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:00.320 To know your number. 00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:19.360 For me, you know, knowing I wanted to do something creative, it helped to really have a plan and to know what I needed financially so that I could pursue something creative without the pressure of the financial weight. 00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:24.400 And so doing the work, and that's where financial advisors can be incredibly helpful, right? 00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:29.039 Is creating the plan, knowing what you need, knowing how to get there. 00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:43.920 Um, those are important skills that we're not taught, uh, most of us are taught in high school and college of really, you know, coming up with kind of those life plans and your financial plan for, you know, what is how do you get to retirement? 00:39:44.079 --> 00:39:45.440 What does that look like? 00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:59.440 So for me, you know, that, you know, knowing knowing that plan and having some confidence that I could do some things and take some risks and it's still be okay was a hugely important, an important lesson for me. 00:40:00.880 --> 00:40:01.199 Okay. 00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:02.960 So now here's my next question. 00:40:03.039 --> 00:40:14.639 And this has to do with the fact that you come from a celebrity world, your husband's a former pro player, and there's there's there's people listening that are like, how do you hire your professionals in your life? 00:40:14.960 --> 00:40:20.719 The example would be CPA, attorney, financial advisor, concierge doctor. 00:40:20.880 --> 00:40:24.000 You hear about people getting taken advantage of all the time. 00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:29.360 What are some of the tools that you use to help ensure that you've hired the right people? 00:40:29.679 --> 00:40:33.280 Yeah, I, you know, your network is a huge part of that, right? 00:40:33.440 --> 00:40:37.920 So tapping into people you know who you trust and who they're using. 00:40:38.159 --> 00:40:39.280 I'll give you an example. 00:40:39.519 --> 00:40:45.599 My financial advisor, so define financial here in San Diego, eight minutes from where I live. 00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:54.000 My brother had followed them for years, his podcast, Taylor Schulte, a fantastic podcast about retirement. 00:40:54.239 --> 00:40:57.599 And boy, there's very few people I trust more than my brother. 00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:03.039 And he's more of a DIY, but you know, he followed this firm and this particular advisor. 00:41:03.280 --> 00:41:13.840 And when I started, when we moved down to San Diego, we left Malibu after the fires and after the Palisades fires, which affected Malibu as well, and moved down here. 00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:17.360 It was time for a change and time for a stronger plan. 00:41:17.599 --> 00:41:20.559 And oh, I couldn't be happier. 00:41:20.719 --> 00:41:33.679 And and really, you know, trusting that network, and in this case, my sibling, to know what was right for me and and then do the work and do this, do the conversations, into a line on strategy and things like that. 00:41:33.920 --> 00:41:46.559 But I think it falls back on your network, and that's why it's so important to grow your network, you know, as especially as a young person, you never know when you're going to need to tap into that network for a job, for a recommendation. 00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:50.239 And sometimes it's a few center spokes, right? 00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:59.360 So a great financial advisor can be a spoke for, you know, a good kind of CPA or a good state attorney, or right. 00:41:59.440 --> 00:42:06.239 So, I mean, once you've got some trusted anchors, they have also vetted their networks. 00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:09.599 And so that really comes in handy as well. 00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:10.719 Great answer. 00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:12.559 Thank you so much for sharing that. 00:42:13.119 --> 00:42:19.840 So, as an author, working with other people, where do you see your authorship in your writing three to five years from now? 00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:21.360 And what are you currently working on? 00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:23.679 Do you have a new book that you're working on too? 00:42:24.320 --> 00:42:24.960 Yeah, you do. 00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:28.559 And this is where it gets tricky because, especially as a young writer, right? 00:42:28.639 --> 00:42:41.039 So, but if you think about it, I'm only a couple years into my journey and I've been on a production, you know, I really was focused on cycling and getting kind of the time on the court. 00:42:41.280 --> 00:42:44.159 Um, I thought for sure I'd run out of ideas. 00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:47.679 Like, oh, you know, like after this third book, what am I gonna do? 00:42:47.840 --> 00:42:48.639 Absolutely not. 00:42:48.800 --> 00:42:59.039 So the next book, which is about a quarter way in, is a book again with my husband, back into the NFL space, which is quite ironic because I don't come from that world. 00:42:59.360 --> 00:43:06.960 But we're we're kind of co-working a book

that's think of it as like a chicken soup for the soul that's sports. 00:43:07.119 --> 00:43:15.199 So we're taking we're getting a hundred athletes, a hundred and former NFL players telling their one or two stories from their career. 00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:29.840 And it's gonna be one of those books where you can just open a page or two, hear from Dan Fouts about one of his best plays, hear from Howie Long about something that happened on the sidelines, or Marcus Allen, or you know, all these all these players. 00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:34.320 We've got a hundred, you know, it's gonna be a hundred players across the NFL. 00:43:34.400 --> 00:43:42.719 So it's not team specific, it's not even generation specific, although I just mentioned some names, but we're getting some kind of younger former players as well. 00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:49.920 And so the concept, the book is called Under the Helmet, but it's actually the a bigger concept of inside the game. 00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:52.000 And you could take it to any sport. 00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:55.920 And so it's pretty exciting what's possible with this book. 00:43:56.000 --> 00:43:59.679 And we're actually having all the profits go to charity. 00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:12.239 So all of the profits will go to the NFL Player Care Foundation, which takes care of players as they've left the game and need support, often medical, sometimes other. 00:44:12.719 --> 00:44:18.400 And it's this idea of you help your brothers even after your your days on the field are over. 00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:20.079 So it's a pretty exciting book. 00:44:20.159 --> 00:44:22.960 And then I've got another one in the works called Unadulting. 00:44:23.039 --> 00:44:27.360 So we've got kind of two, every with all of these, they're incubating at different stages. 00:44:27.519 --> 00:44:34.480 So you've got, you know, one that's sunsetting, the aggressively human Morenovich, and I'm going to be on NBC next month, right? 00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:36.400 So that is still very active. 00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:40.960 Saffron Spy, you know, comes into the world very soon, is pre-ordering now. 00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:44.079 And then this under the helmet, we're about a quarter of the way in. 00:44:44.239 --> 00:44:44.719 So yeah. 00:44:46.719 --> 00:44:53.679 As a new friend, I'm really proud of you that you're just continuing to manifest and grow and do inspiring work. 00:44:53.920 --> 00:44:58.480 I'd love to interview you as the other books come out because people need to hear the messaging. 00:44:58.639 --> 00:45:02.880 And where you have chicken soup for the soul, but now it's going to be athletes sharing their stories. 00:45:03.119 --> 00:45:13.840 Again, I think Athletes' Wisdom, which is one of my podcast channels, is inspiring because this is how people learn to be able to know what's between the airs is what pushes us to excellence. 00:45:14.079 --> 00:45:15.199 Yes, you bet. 00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:18.880 And there is so much that goes on that we do not see on the field. 00:45:19.119 --> 00:45:22.559 And that the stuff off the field is the most fascinating part. 00:45:22.880 --> 00:45:23.519 Very nice. 00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:28.800 So as we kind of start to come to a conclusion, I want to encourage everyone to go to LizzieWright.com. 00:45:28.880 --> 00:45:33.039 That's L-I-Z-Z-Y-W-R-I-G-H-T.com. 00:45:33.199 --> 00:45:36.239 Visit her, check out her books, see what she's doing. 00:45:36.400 --> 00:45:38.159 I'm inspired by all of it. 00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:41.760 She's an inspiring person and her messaging is incredible. 00:45:41.920 --> 00:45:54.159 When you're not writing books and you're not hanging out with these uh NFL celebrities and others and dealing with espionage, give us a couple ideas of what you do as a hobby and when in your free time. 00:45:54.400 --> 00:46:00.000 Yeah, so fitness is a huge part of my life, and it it has been since I can remember. 00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:03.519 And so when I'm not writing, I need to move. 00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:05.920 And so I'm heavily into fitness. 00:46:06.159 --> 00:46:10.719 I also surf, you know, I live on a beach break here in Southern California. 00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:25.119 So I'm very fortunate to have the water right at my uh you know, front door, and you know, just really embrace the Southern California lifestyle, which is ironic for a girl from northern Vermont who grew up downhill skiing. 00:46:25.280 --> 00:46:28.800 I have embraced all things water and all things warm. 00:46:29.519 --> 00:46:30.400 Fantastic. 00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:33.760 Do you have a favorite childhood memory that you want to share? 00:46:34.320 --> 00:46:36.079 Oh, there are so many. 00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:46.480 I I think probably one of my favorites was being on a sailboat in the British Virgin Islands with like four different families. 00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:53.360 And it was my first taste of tropical warm life and living simply. 00:46:53.519 --> 00:46:56.960 You know, you had to have everything on the boat and just the freedom. 00:46:57.119 --> 00:47:06.480 So back to this whole concept of freedom, which where we started, the freedom to just experience and to not have an agenda, but just to dive in. 00:47:06.719 --> 00:47:10.159 And that that left a mark at a very early age. 00:47:10.480 --> 00:47:11.199 I love it. 00:47:11.440 --> 00:47:13.039 Thank you so much for being here today. 00:47:13.199 --> 00:47:23.679 I'm going to encourage everyone to go to cofinancial.com where you're able to download my book, Your Finance, Your Financial Dream House, Creating Abundance Through Smart Planning and Investing. 00:47:23.920 --> 00:47:24.960 It's a great book. 00:47:25.119 --> 00:47:30.800 It allows you to be able to have and manifest your financial dream house and to be able to think big. 00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:33.360 Again, Lizzie, thank you so much for being here today. 00:47:33.440 --> 00:47:34.559 It's been a pleasure. 00:47:34.719 --> 00:47:46.960 And for those of you that are listening to the industry leader Insight, I'm Chad Coe with Co Financial Group in Northbrook, Illinois, where fiduciary advisor specializing in Roth conversions and RMD strategies. 00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:48.079 Thanks for tuning in. 00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:50.639 Please feel free to subscribe and share with others. 00:47:50.880 --> 00:47:52.000 Thank you for being here today.