התמלול המלא של Overcoming Self-Sabotage with Dr. Judy Ho

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Try Sunsama 55 00:02:56.189 --> 00:02:59.750 for free today at sunsama.com slash a slash hacking dash 56 00:02:59.849 --> 00:03:03.689 your dash ADHD. No credit card required. And start building 57 00:03:03.870 --> 00:03:08.069 a more balanced, productive workday. That link again is sunsama.com 58 00:03:08.229 --> 00:03:12.680 slash a slash hacking dash your dash ADHD. Or check 59 00:03:12.689 --> 00:03:15.539 for the link in the show notes. All right, keep 60 00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:17.319 on listening to find out how you can work on 61 00:03:17.419 --> 00:03:27.169 overcoming self-sabotage. So it's great to have you here to 62 00:03:27.289 --> 00:03:29.960 talk about ADHD. And I kind of wanted to start with, 63 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:33.539 so you're triple board certified and licensed. And I don't 64 00:03:33.580 --> 00:03:35.400 know what triple board certified means. 65 00:03:35.819 --> 00:03:38.659 Well, it just means that I'm certified in different specialty 66 00:03:38.759 --> 00:03:43.310 areas across three separate boards. Board certification in psychology is 67 00:03:43.370 --> 00:03:47.229 not mandatory. It's an optional thing that you can do 68 00:03:47.430 --> 00:03:52.849 to essentially prove your expertise in more specialty areas where 69 00:03:52.889 --> 00:03:56.080 that might be important. So One of my specialty areas 70 00:03:56.120 --> 00:03:58.319 is neuropsychology. And even though you don't have to be 71 00:03:58.360 --> 00:04:01.680 board certified to practice neuropsychology, it's always better if you 72 00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:05.650 are because one, you're protecting your clients. Two, you're making 73 00:04:05.659 --> 00:04:09.229 sure that you're on top of the latest science. And three, 74 00:04:09.270 --> 00:04:12.349 it just builds trust between the people that you interact with. 75 00:04:12.770 --> 00:04:15.030 And when you're talking about this area of expertise and 76 00:04:15.389 --> 00:04:17.240 you feel like there's a base to draw from, that 77 00:04:17.250 --> 00:04:20.519 there's a certain standard, hopefully, that you're upholding. Awesome. 78 00:04:20.540 --> 00:04:22.540 Yeah, that's always kind of something I look for is like, 79 00:04:22.779 --> 00:04:25.740 what gives someone like the weight behind their words? And 80 00:04:26.019 --> 00:04:30.089 certainly with your quite well established background there, I'm like, yeah, 81 00:04:30.110 --> 00:04:32.709 this is someone worth talking to and listening to about 82 00:04:32.750 --> 00:04:35.649 their things, especially with in regards to ADHD. So I 83 00:04:35.649 --> 00:04:38.490 was kind of curious what really drew you to doing 84 00:04:38.509 --> 00:04:39.310 more stuff with ADHD? 85 00:04:40.019 --> 00:04:43.579 Well, one, I think it's just such an interesting clinical 86 00:04:43.620 --> 00:04:49.269 condition that's oftentimes misunderstood. And as a neuropsychologist, I naturally 87 00:04:49.310 --> 00:04:53.069 gravitate towards working with people who might have ADHD because 88 00:04:53.509 --> 00:04:56.490 usually to get a comprehensive workup, you go to a neuropsychologist, 89 00:04:56.509 --> 00:04:58.970 you get cognitive testing done to make sure that your 90 00:04:58.990 --> 00:05:02.730 attention problems are really coming from something that stems from 91 00:05:02.750 --> 00:05:06.290 ADHD rather than maybe, for example, depression or anxiety or 92 00:05:06.310 --> 00:05:09.819 a variety of other reasons. And so, one, I think 93 00:05:09.879 --> 00:05:13.430 it was just a natural gravitation. But two, I think 94 00:05:13.459 --> 00:05:17.129 that it's often misunderstood. So sometimes people who have ADHD, 95 00:05:17.189 --> 00:05:19.649 and especially when they're young, they're getting diagnosed or they 96 00:05:19.670 --> 00:05:23.930 just feel different. It really affects their ability to have self-confidence, 97 00:05:24.050 --> 00:05:27.350 to feel like they can affect positive change in their life. 98 00:05:27.389 --> 00:05:30.629 And it really affects so many different areas. And sometimes 99 00:05:30.730 --> 00:05:33.860 when individuals are pretty bright, they can hide

that for 100 00:05:33.879 --> 00:05:36.569 a really long time. So they don't even show the 101 00:05:36.610 --> 00:05:38.959 outside world, how much they're actually struggling on the inside. 102 00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:42.019 And then by the time they reach adulthood, maybe they've 103 00:05:42.100 --> 00:05:45.959 written off certain careers or certain activities because they have 104 00:05:46.019 --> 00:05:50.089 these potential weaknesses in their skill sets. And yet there's 105 00:05:50.149 --> 00:05:52.350 a lot we can do to overcome that. But they've 106 00:05:52.470 --> 00:05:56.769 essentially relegated themselves into a certain type of career or say, 107 00:05:56.910 --> 00:05:58.589 these are the only hobbies I can do, but not 108 00:05:58.629 --> 00:06:01.740 these other ones. And then they're limiting themselves in terms 109 00:06:01.779 --> 00:06:03.079 of how much they could really achieve. 110 00:06:03.470 --> 00:06:06.339 Yeah, I absolutely see that, especially with being able to 111 00:06:06.759 --> 00:06:09.029 kind of mask your symptoms and then being just like, oh, 112 00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:12.180 this is just how everyone is. And in the long run, 113 00:06:12.199 --> 00:06:15.699 that's really detrimental, even though in the short term, it's like, oh, yeah, 114 00:06:15.720 --> 00:06:18.269 I'm just like everyone else. I'm not causing problems. I 115 00:06:18.290 --> 00:06:20.089 do see that being a big piece with the problem 116 00:06:20.110 --> 00:06:22.970 with how ADHD is currently diagnosed is often like who's 117 00:06:23.009 --> 00:06:24.069 being the most disruptive. 118 00:06:24.230 --> 00:06:24.550 Right. 119 00:06:24.810 --> 00:06:27.000 That's why I think partially why we see such a 120 00:06:27.300 --> 00:06:30.220 higher amount of people with the hyperactive diagnosis rather than 121 00:06:30.279 --> 00:06:33.220 the inattentive, just because the hyperactive does tend to be 122 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:34.240 a lot more disruptive. 123 00:06:34.579 --> 00:06:38.420 Right, exactly. And when you think about in the classroom, 124 00:06:38.800 --> 00:06:44.209 children who have more of that hyperactive, impulsive form of ADHD, 125 00:06:44.490 --> 00:06:46.550 they're the ones that the teachers are going to really 126 00:06:46.629 --> 00:06:48.790 notice right away and say, oh, I got to get 127 00:06:48.829 --> 00:06:52.689 this kid to be seen by somebody, an educational psychologist, 128 00:06:52.850 --> 00:06:55.199 tell the parents what's going on. And then you have 129 00:06:55.250 --> 00:06:58.329 these quieter individuals who are just struggling with their inattention. 130 00:06:58.689 --> 00:07:01.629 Maybe they're daydreaming more. They're looking around. But hey, they're 131 00:07:01.750 --> 00:07:04.310 not being disruptive. And you've got a class of 30 132 00:07:04.310 --> 00:07:06.990 people to manage. So who are you going to identify first? 133 00:07:07.050 --> 00:07:10.810 And who ends up escaping that

diagnosis when maybe they 134 00:07:10.850 --> 00:07:13.009 should be diagnosed so that they can get additional support? 135 00:07:13.100 --> 00:07:15.560 And then just, I think, also an explanation for why 136 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:17.379 they might struggle with certain things. You know, I think 137 00:07:17.399 --> 00:07:19.399 that that's always so important. When I talk to my clients, 138 00:07:19.769 --> 00:07:21.970 as they get older, maybe they're a teenager or they're 139 00:07:22.009 --> 00:07:23.949 an adult, you know, they say, well, I've always felt 140 00:07:23.990 --> 00:07:26.350 different when I was a kid, but I never knew why. 141 00:07:26.370 --> 00:07:29.470 And that during such a crucial time for the foundation 142 00:07:29.509 --> 00:07:32.230 of who you are and understanding your place in the world, 143 00:07:32.269 --> 00:07:35.329 that can be so hard to overcome at a later age. Yeah. 144 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:38.220 Well, especially if you build up this internal monologue about 145 00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:41.220 yourself of like, I struggle with things that are simple 146 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:45.120 for other people. And therefore that's me just being kind 147 00:07:45.139 --> 00:07:48.439 of a bad person. Overcoming that like Internal talk like 148 00:07:48.550 --> 00:07:50.329 and not realizing, oh, there is a reason that I 149 00:07:50.370 --> 00:07:53.569 struggle with these things that take executive function to do. 150 00:07:53.930 --> 00:07:57.430 Yeah, exactly. And I think that oftentimes kids from a 151 00:07:57.470 --> 00:08:00.620 very young age will put labels on themselves like. oh, 152 00:08:00.660 --> 00:08:03.100 I must be stupid. You know, I'm not smart. And 153 00:08:03.420 --> 00:08:05.519 most of the times that's absolutely not the case. I 154 00:08:05.560 --> 00:08:08.259 know so many brilliant people who have ADHD, but in 155 00:08:08.370 --> 00:08:11.550 terms of their own internal monologue and what they tell themselves, 156 00:08:11.610 --> 00:08:13.930 and especially when they have a failure of some sort, 157 00:08:14.170 --> 00:08:16.490 which all of us have, or make a mistake, you know, 158 00:08:16.509 --> 00:08:19.670 their first thought is, well, that's why, because I'm stupid. 159 00:08:19.889 --> 00:08:21.529 That's why I couldn't do this. And it's such a 160 00:08:21.550 --> 00:08:24.040 tragedy in some ways, because I think that you end 161 00:08:24.100 --> 00:08:27.079 up really boxing yourself in and then you tell yourself 162 00:08:27.100 --> 00:08:29.819 that you can't succeed and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy 163 00:08:29.879 --> 00:08:30.740 over time. Yeah. 164 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:32.639 I mean, it always kills me so much when I 165 00:08:32.679 --> 00:08:35.019 hear my kids like I'll have to correct them on something. 166 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:37.000 And they're like, oh, I'm stupid because I'm like, no, 167 00:08:37.019 --> 00:08:40.049 you're not stupid, especially if it's like related to like ADHD. 168 00:08:40.090 --> 00:08:41.870 It's like that's not what's going on here. 169 00:08:42.269 --> 00:08:44.529 I think that that sometimes as they get older, it 170 00:08:44.990 --> 00:08:47.210 even affects so many other areas of their life, not 171 00:08:47.269 --> 00:08:50.659 just a career achievement, but even just personal achievement of 172 00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:53.950 any sort. it kind of generalizes into other areas. Like 173 00:08:53.970 --> 00:08:55.899 they don't even think that they can achieve fitness goals, 174 00:08:55.950 --> 00:08:58.269 for example, even though that may have nothing to do 175 00:08:58.409 --> 00:09:00.730 at all with the way that their brains work in 176 00:09:00.789 --> 00:09:03.889 ADHD or just in relationships. They'll have more problems in 177 00:09:03.909 --> 00:09:07.470 their relationships. And I think part of it is just because, again, 178 00:09:07.509 --> 00:09:10.470 when you're somewhat inattentive, you know, the biggest complaint that 179 00:09:10.509 --> 00:09:13.070 I get from spouses and partners is, of people with 180 00:09:13.110 --> 00:09:15.950 ADHD is, well, I've just felt like this person's never 181 00:09:15.990 --> 00:09:18.789 listening to me and maybe they don't care. And they're 182 00:09:18.830 --> 00:09:21.769 even hiding their ADHD from their partner, or maybe they 183 00:09:21.789 --> 00:09:23.950 don't even know that it's ADHD. And then it's causing 184 00:09:23.990 --> 00:09:27.399 all this relationship conflict and they're having difficulty having meaningful 185 00:09:27.580 --> 00:09:29.419 relationships when they really should be able to. 186 00:09:29.779 --> 00:09:32.419 Personally, I've had this thing where, especially when I'm driving 187 00:09:32.740 --> 00:09:34.720 and my wife will start talking to me, I'm paying 188 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:37.460 attention to something else. And then halfway through her story, 189 00:09:37.539 --> 00:09:41.370 I'll just come into stoplight or something and be like, Well, no, 190 00:09:41.429 --> 00:09:43.970 she's been talking and I don't even know when she started. 191 00:09:43.990 --> 00:09:44.860 Oh, my gosh. 192 00:09:45.899 --> 00:09:48.759 And it's fortunately so I've been able to be like, hey, 193 00:09:49.080 --> 00:09:51.340 I wasn't listening. Can you start over so that I 194 00:09:51.379 --> 00:09:53.519 can actually pay attention to what you're saying? And especially 195 00:09:53.620 --> 00:09:55.370 reframing it like I want to hear what you're saying. 196 00:09:55.450 --> 00:09:58.070 I just wasn't paying attention and I'll try better next time. 197 00:09:58.370 --> 00:10:03.230 Yeah, that's such a great reframe. And also if your spouse, partner, friend, 198 00:10:03.289 --> 00:10:05.889 whoever you're talking to understands that, hey, you know what? 199 00:10:05.970 --> 00:10:07.970 This is something that I struggle with from time to time, 200 00:10:08.049 --> 00:10:11.309 but

I'm acknowledging it. And also, like you said, the 201 00:10:11.350 --> 00:10:13.129 positive side of it, which is I don't want to 202 00:10:13.149 --> 00:10:15.100 just pretend I heard what you said. I actually want 203 00:10:15.149 --> 00:10:17.159 to know what you said. So can you start over 204 00:10:17.179 --> 00:10:19.000 so I can really understand what it is that you're 205 00:10:19.019 --> 00:10:20.600 talking about? I think that's so great. 206 00:10:20.620 --> 00:10:22.580 Yeah, because it is very easy to just be like, oh, 207 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:25.639 I'll just pretend. But that's where you get a lot 208 00:10:25.659 --> 00:10:27.419 of the conflict is because then they're like, oh, and 209 00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:28.710 what do you think? And you're like, I don't know 210 00:10:28.730 --> 00:10:29.700 how to respond to this anymore. 211 00:10:30.019 --> 00:10:32.529 Exactly. And then I think that that causes frustration so 212 00:10:32.549 --> 00:10:35.509 much more when somebody is maybe in that phase of 213 00:10:35.549 --> 00:10:39.169 still trying to hide their ADHD, because sometimes the spouse 214 00:10:39.210 --> 00:10:40.909 or the partner will interpret that as, oh, well, they 215 00:10:40.929 --> 00:10:43.009 just don't really care about me or what I have 216 00:10:43.049 --> 00:10:46.840 to say. And it's not true. People with ADHD, sometimes 217 00:10:47.019 --> 00:10:49.940 they have a harder time switching gears too. So maybe 218 00:10:49.960 --> 00:10:52.200 they are focusing on one thing and they're thinking, well, 219 00:10:52.220 --> 00:10:54.240 I'm going to transition right now, but you can't just 220 00:10:54.299 --> 00:10:56.700 expect them to make that transition sometimes within a couple 221 00:10:56.720 --> 00:10:59.259 of seconds. It might take them a few minutes to 222 00:10:59.299 --> 00:11:01.980 settle into a new routine, a new task. And so 223 00:11:02.379 --> 00:11:05.360 I think it just helps when you understand, okay, well, 224 00:11:05.379 --> 00:11:08.129 the ADHD brain works somewhat differently with different things. And 225 00:11:08.570 --> 00:11:10.610 if the person doesn't have ADHD, they're with somebody who 226 00:11:10.649 --> 00:11:12.870 has ADHD, it could take a little while, a little 227 00:11:12.929 --> 00:11:15.429 negotiation to understand each other. Absolutely. 228 00:11:15.509 --> 00:11:18.070 Because it's just reading into things that aren't really there 229 00:11:18.289 --> 00:11:20.509 because the brains are just wired a little bit differently. 230 00:11:20.740 --> 00:11:22.840 And even when I'm like dealing with, you know, my 231 00:11:22.860 --> 00:11:24.580 kids and being like, okay, if I want to ask 232 00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:26.240 them to do something, I have to really get their 233 00:11:26.259 --> 00:11:28.139 attention first. If I just go, you know, ask a 234 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:30.419 question and I don't get any responses, it's because they 235 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:32.980 probably literally didn't hear me and never entered their brain 236 00:11:33.019 --> 00:11:33.659 that I was talking. 237 00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:37.049 Exactly. And again, once you understand that, it helps so 238 00:11:37.090 --> 00:11:40.250 much more to have good communication and to not feel 239 00:11:40.269 --> 00:11:42.350 like it's willful, right? Because that's also what I hear 240 00:11:42.370 --> 00:11:45.960 all the time. from people who have ADHD is, oh, well, 241 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:47.740 people in my life think that I'm just doing it 242 00:11:47.799 --> 00:11:51.019 on purpose to annoy them, but it's not on purpose. 243 00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:53.750 And I think that even that understanding can really help 244 00:11:53.919 --> 00:11:58.190 boost relationships and have people then have a deeper understanding 245 00:11:58.230 --> 00:11:58.750 of one another. 246 00:11:58.990 --> 00:12:02.049 Yeah, absolutely. Because it's just so hard to, without that 247 00:12:02.149 --> 00:12:05.669 communication piece, to move forward. Because since it's such an 248 00:12:05.730 --> 00:12:09.200 internal condition, that does seem willful if you're not aware 249 00:12:09.240 --> 00:12:09.450 of it. 250 00:12:09.649 --> 00:12:12.320 I think that that's even more of a challenge for 251 00:12:12.379 --> 00:12:16.830 people who are smart, who are super capable, who are successful. 252 00:12:17.250 --> 00:12:19.769 Because I think from the outside, the other person might 253 00:12:19.809 --> 00:12:21.669 be saying, well, I don't get it. You're so great 254 00:12:21.730 --> 00:12:23.470 at all these other things, or I know you're smart. 255 00:12:23.490 --> 00:12:25.490 So why can't you do this? Or why can't you 256 00:12:25.529 --> 00:12:29.049 understand that? And I think that that also creates some 257 00:12:29.090 --> 00:12:32.950 difficulty in relating because it's almost like a double-edged sword. 258 00:12:32.970 --> 00:12:35.450 You're smart, you're talented. And then people just expect that 259 00:12:35.470 --> 00:12:37.309 it should be that way across the board. But people 260 00:12:37.350 --> 00:12:40.240 with ADHD often have to work very hard to achieve 261 00:12:40.269 --> 00:12:43.539 success because of some of the rewiring of the brain 262 00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:45.379 that they have to do to get certain things done. 263 00:12:45.620 --> 00:12:47.879 And yet the people that they're in relationships with, they 264 00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:50.679 may not see that struggle or those workarounds. 265 00:12:50.919 --> 00:12:52.500 And it's funny too, because I'll do the same thing 266 00:12:52.519 --> 00:12:54.620 to myself with, I'm just like, why is this so hard? 267 00:12:54.659 --> 00:12:56.440 I can do all these other things. It's like, why 268 00:12:56.460 --> 00:12:58.399 is getting the trash out of my car something that 269 00:12:58.419 --> 00:13:01.029 I'm always struggling with? That shouldn't be an issue. 270

00:13:01.289 --> 00:13:04.220 Right. And that's such a good example of that there's 271 00:13:04.259 --> 00:13:06.690 all these complicated things that you're able to do. And 272 00:13:06.710 --> 00:13:09.830 then it's something that feels basic, but also in just 273 00:13:09.870 --> 00:13:12.470 in terms of the way that people who have ADHD, 274 00:13:12.690 --> 00:13:16.929 the prioritizing of things that that really causes more cognitive 275 00:13:17.250 --> 00:13:20.110 impact than maybe the average person who doesn't have ADHD. 276 00:13:20.149 --> 00:13:22.169 So it's like, Well, if it's kind of a lower 277 00:13:22.269 --> 00:13:26.149 thing on the totem pole of priorities, that's the things 278 00:13:26.190 --> 00:13:29.269 that get kind of written off and put off. And 279 00:13:29.389 --> 00:13:31.500 they're able to say, okay, this is my first priority day, 280 00:13:31.509 --> 00:13:32.909 so I can get this done. But then by the 281 00:13:32.929 --> 00:13:36.240 time they get that done, their brain is already exhausted. 282 00:13:36.440 --> 00:13:39.379 That cognitive strength is already kind of diminished. And like 283 00:13:39.399 --> 00:13:40.799 the last thing you'd want to do is go and 284 00:13:40.840 --> 00:13:43.340 pick up a couple of pieces of trash from your car. Yeah. 285 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:46.080 Even today, I was like looking at my calendar and 286 00:13:46.100 --> 00:13:48.299 being like, okay, I have this interview at one. I 287 00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:50.769 should make sure that I schedule in lunch. And then 288 00:13:50.809 --> 00:13:52.429 I kind of put that off and I put that off. 289 00:13:52.490 --> 00:13:54.539 And then about like 20 minutes before we got on, 290 00:13:54.549 --> 00:13:56.889 I'm like, oh, I should eat something before I get on. 291 00:13:57.149 --> 00:13:59.470 And it's baffling even to myself how I can like 292 00:13:59.570 --> 00:14:02.330 ignore hunger cues until I really need to do that now. 293 00:14:02.570 --> 00:14:04.950 Yeah. Yeah. It's like, I think it's because your brain 294 00:14:04.990 --> 00:14:08.330 is focused on something and it makes it harder to 295 00:14:08.409 --> 00:14:11.389 also be integrating everything else at that same time. And 296 00:14:11.669 --> 00:14:14.909 that's probably one of the biggest challenges as we become adults, right? 297 00:14:14.929 --> 00:14:18.799 And we have increasing numbers of responsibilities and tasks to do. 298 00:14:18.860 --> 00:14:20.789 And then people are coming at us with more and 299 00:14:20.809 --> 00:14:23.269 more things to do throughout the day. And yeah, some 300 00:14:23.289 --> 00:14:25.570 of those basic tasks just go to the wayside when 301 00:14:25.590 --> 00:14:27.350 you have to manage all of those other things. 302 00:14:27.850 --> 00:14:29.950 So one of the interesting things I saw was that 303 00:14:29.970 --> 00:14:33.539 you have your book, Stop Self-Sabotaging. And I actually recently 304 00:14:33.559 --> 00:14:37.159 did an episode based off the song, My Own Worst Enemy, 305 00:14:37.179 --> 00:14:39.820 because I was feeling like that is like something that 306 00:14:39.860 --> 00:14:42.720 like often people with ADHD feel like they are their 307 00:14:42.740 --> 00:14:45.250 own worst enemy, that they're always self-sabotaging themselves. 308 00:14:45.259 --> 00:14:47.870 Yeah. Yeah, that's such a good point. And I think 309 00:14:47.909 --> 00:14:50.929 that oftentimes what we see with people who have ADHD 310 00:14:50.990 --> 00:14:54.429 is that there's forms of procrastination that are happening. And 311 00:14:54.490 --> 00:14:56.789 that I think is one of the more common forms 312 00:14:56.909 --> 00:14:59.460 of self-sabotage is, you know, you could be so excited 313 00:14:59.500 --> 00:15:01.960 about an idea and you really care about this project. 314 00:15:02.500 --> 00:15:05.659 And yet somehow it just takes forever to get things started. 315 00:15:06.200 --> 00:15:10.169 And self-sabotage is a universal phenomenon. It happens to everybody, 316 00:15:10.250 --> 00:15:13.090 not just people with ADHD. But I think with people 317 00:15:13.129 --> 00:15:16.590 with ADHD, even for themselves and their own understanding, it's 318 00:15:16.610 --> 00:15:19.690 so hard to have self-compassion sometimes. It's hard for you 319 00:15:19.730 --> 00:15:23.279 to say, oh, actually, maybe part of the reason why 320 00:15:23.460 --> 00:15:26.000 I'm self-sabotaging is because of the way my brain works 321 00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:28.740 due to ADHD. Because as adults, you want to take 322 00:15:28.779 --> 00:15:30.820 maybe some more responsibility. You're like, well, is that just 323 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:33.500 an excuse or is that what's really going on? But 324 00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:36.450 people who have ADHD, they do struggle to execute tasks 325 00:15:36.690 --> 00:15:39.700 in an orderly fashion and efficiently. And that's just a 326 00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:42.049 constant struggle that they have to work through. And most 327 00:15:42.230 --> 00:15:45.470 people with ADHD, they're just trying to find different ways 328 00:15:45.830 --> 00:15:49.529 to be more efficient. And sometimes those experiments, maybe they 329 00:15:49.549 --> 00:15:52.429 don't go so well, but it's hard because your self-esteem 330 00:15:52.470 --> 00:15:55.220 does take a hit every time something doesn't go the 331 00:15:55.259 --> 00:15:57.659 way that you had planned in your head. Absolutely. 332 00:15:57.700 --> 00:16:00.340 And I think we also have this tendency to look 333 00:16:00.419 --> 00:16:03.580 back with these rose-tinted glasses and be like, oh, I 334 00:16:03.620 --> 00:16:05.470 could have done all these things. And then I look 335 00:16:05.490 --> 00:16:07.529 back and I'm like, oh yeah, that's also that time 336 00:16:07.570 --> 00:16:09.509 when I hurt my leg or something and I couldn't 337 00:16:09.529 --> 00:16:11.309 move around. And I'm like,

that might explain why I 338 00:16:11.370 --> 00:16:13.850 wasn't doing as much as I should the past couple 339 00:16:13.870 --> 00:16:14.169 of months. 340 00:16:14.570 --> 00:16:17.490 Yeah, that's right. I feel like people with ADHD are 341 00:16:17.570 --> 00:16:20.100 often the hardest on themselves, much harder on themselves than 342 00:16:20.149 --> 00:16:23.720 even people around them, just because for most people, they've 343 00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:26.039 noticed these differences from a young age and they've been 344 00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:29.580 trying to compensate ever since. And so Yeah, I think 345 00:16:29.620 --> 00:16:31.759 that that was a really good example of how that 346 00:16:31.879 --> 00:16:34.720 could manifest that a lot of times people will just say, oh, 347 00:16:34.740 --> 00:16:37.080 my gosh, like, was that my fault? Like, there's almost 348 00:16:37.139 --> 00:16:40.379 a questioning, almost like you're unsure. And maybe half the 349 00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:42.639 time you should take some responsibility. But I feel like 350 00:16:42.840 --> 00:16:45.850 a lot of the time they feel over responsible. And 351 00:16:46.149 --> 00:16:48.850 that's hard because when you fill your mind with negative 352 00:16:48.889 --> 00:16:51.850 ideas about yourself, it's so much harder to overcome that hurdle, too. 353 00:16:51.929 --> 00:16:54.529 So it becomes definitely a vicious cycle. Yeah. 354 00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:58.100 And it's especially with something with like rejection sensitive dysphoria 355 00:16:58.139 --> 00:17:00.779 where your brain is kind of actively looking for these 356 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:03.250 things to be like, I want to make myself feel bad. 357 00:17:03.639 --> 00:17:03.840 Right. 358 00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:06.579 Like a better way to say it. But that is 359 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:09.539 often how I like in retrospect think about the RSD 360 00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:11.539 is being like, my brain was just trying to make 361 00:17:11.579 --> 00:17:13.900 me feel bad because maybe it's just that was the 362 00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:15.220 stimulation it wanted at the time. 363 00:17:15.730 --> 00:17:19.150 Yeah, exactly. And sometimes we do need that. Right. And 364 00:17:19.230 --> 00:17:21.170 I think there's always a balance. You know, you can't 365 00:17:21.450 --> 00:17:24.890 constantly be productive. You know, it's also important for your 366 00:17:25.150 --> 00:17:28.109 brain to disengage from that fight or flight feeling and 367 00:17:28.130 --> 00:17:30.339 to actually be in rest and relaxation, because actually that's 368 00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:32.680 how we learn best. You know, we learn the most 369 00:17:33.099 --> 00:17:35.859 when we're able to take our time to absorb information. 370 00:17:35.900 --> 00:17:38.279 If we constantly feel like everything's an emergency. then your 371 00:17:38.299 --> 00:17:41.039 brain is operating in that state of emergency. And in 372 00:17:41.099 --> 00:17:42.740 a state of emergency, you're not going to be making 373 00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:46.700 room for novel information. It's more just about, well, what's 374 00:17:46.789 --> 00:17:48.150 it going to take to survive and get out of 375 00:17:48.210 --> 00:17:51.609 this situation? And so it becomes very basic, actually. And 376 00:17:51.670 --> 00:17:54.890 so I think more than anything, people with ADHD probably 377 00:17:55.250 --> 00:17:58.549 have to give themselves more time for self-care and more 378 00:17:58.630 --> 00:18:01.269 time to get into that rest and relaxation state than 379 00:18:01.289 --> 00:18:04.109 the average person because they need that for their brains 380 00:18:04.130 --> 00:18:05.309 to be able to work at their best. 381 00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:07.259 This is something I've been thinking about this week because 382 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:09.680 I've been just getting the kids back into school mode 383 00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:11.799 and feeling extra tired and being like, I don't want 384 00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:13.720 to take that time for rest. And then when I 385 00:18:13.740 --> 00:18:15.869 do rest, it's hard. And one of the things I 386 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:19.769 was specifically thinking about is often the act of resting 387 00:18:20.049 --> 00:18:22.230 isn't interesting enough for me. So if I'm trying to 388 00:18:22.250 --> 00:18:25.109 take a nap or just chill out, my brain doesn't 389 00:18:25.190 --> 00:18:27.190 want it. I'm like, oh, I need a little extra 390 00:18:27.210 --> 00:18:31.769 stimulation or relaxation. It can't just be low stimulation. It 391 00:18:31.789 --> 00:18:33.430 needs to be with a little bit something. So I'm 392 00:18:33.450 --> 00:18:36.420 not really pushing too hard, but still getting something there. 393 00:18:36.740 --> 00:18:39.059 Yeah, it makes sense. You kind of want a little 394 00:18:39.079 --> 00:18:41.519 bit of that novelty, but not so much where you're 395 00:18:41.539 --> 00:18:44.500 getting into a super stressed out mode. One thing that 396 00:18:44.539 --> 00:18:47.460 I like to recommend for my clients is to try 397 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:49.220 to find activities that help them to get in a 398 00:18:49.259 --> 00:18:52.309 state of flow. So maybe you've heard of this too, William, 399 00:18:52.349 --> 00:18:54.289 but that state of flow is actually something that you 400 00:18:54.329 --> 00:18:57.319 do that is pretty active. So A state of flow 401 00:18:57.519 --> 00:19:00.660 is not achievable if you're just vegging out watching Netflix. 402 00:19:01.400 --> 00:19:03.980 It's more something that's active so that there's a bit 403 00:19:04.019 --> 00:19:06.900 of a challenge, but not so challenging. And then you 404 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:09.650 feel like your skill level is pretty good. It doesn't 405 00:19:09.670 --> 00:19:12.450 have to be the best, but you feel generally somewhat 406 00:19:12.509 --> 00:19:15.869 competent at this hobby or this

activity. And that's how 407 00:19:15.910 --> 00:19:17.430 we get into a flow state. And so you can 408 00:19:17.470 --> 00:19:20.109 actually get into a flow state with reading, but instead 409 00:19:20.150 --> 00:19:22.910 of passively turning the page, it's about actively making notes 410 00:19:22.930 --> 00:19:25.390 in the margin or doing a voice memo to yourself. 411 00:19:25.849 --> 00:19:27.869 And I also find that people with ADHD tend to 412 00:19:27.910 --> 00:19:30.549 get into flow activities a little bit better when it 413 00:19:30.650 --> 00:19:34.250 is multimodal. So something that's visual, but also they're hearing it. 414 00:19:34.910 --> 00:19:38.069 There's more than one type of exposure that can help 415 00:19:38.089 --> 00:19:40.809 them be engaged and get into flow. So I totally 416 00:19:40.829 --> 00:19:42.990 hear what you're saying. Also, when I talk to my 417 00:19:43.049 --> 00:19:46.049 ADHD clients about practicing mindfulness, they're like, oh, God, I'm 418 00:19:46.089 --> 00:19:48.470 not going to just sit there cross-legged and meditate. And 419 00:19:48.490 --> 00:19:50.420 I tell them, yeah, you know what? I don't like 420 00:19:50.440 --> 00:19:53.490 that either. And my form of mindfulness is actually being active. 421 00:19:53.569 --> 00:19:56.309 So It can be a walking mindfulness where you're just 422 00:19:56.369 --> 00:19:59.190 trying to take in the environment around you and really 423 00:19:59.289 --> 00:20:02.569 being present. It could also be what I call practical mindfulness, 424 00:20:02.630 --> 00:20:06.079 which is doing an activity singular mindedly. So these are 425 00:20:06.210 --> 00:20:08.819 basic things. You can be taking a shower mindfully. You 426 00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:12.279 can be washing dishes mindfully, folding the laundry mindfully. But 427 00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:14.819 the whole point is not doing five things at once, right? 428 00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:17.200 Because most people are like doing their laundry and listening 429 00:20:17.220 --> 00:20:19.240 to a podcast. And at the same time, they're doing 430 00:20:19.259 --> 00:20:21.289 some other thing like thinking about their to-do list for 431 00:20:21.329 --> 00:20:23.920 the day. And I think that those active forms of 432 00:20:23.980 --> 00:20:26.700 mindfulness are probably a little bit easier for people with 433 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:27.579 ADHD also. 434 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:29.880 Yeah, I think doing that thing where the idea of 435 00:20:29.900 --> 00:20:33.109 like single tasking, but being very focused on that task. 436 00:20:33.130 --> 00:20:35.890 Because often it's when I'm like bored with a single task, 437 00:20:35.930 --> 00:20:38.109 it's because I'm thinking about something else and I'm doing this. 438 00:20:38.130 --> 00:20:39.829 I'm just trying to get on to the next thing. 439 00:20:39.890 --> 00:20:41.569 But if I'm like, oh, I'm folding the towels and 440 00:20:41.589 --> 00:20:43.279 I'm feeling

how the towels feel. 441 00:20:43.299 --> 00:20:43.380 Yeah. 442 00:20:44.099 --> 00:20:45.579 Really paying attention to what I'm doing. 443 00:20:45.859 --> 00:20:48.980 Exactly. And it's also so much more enjoyable. I mean, 444 00:20:49.099 --> 00:20:51.500 I personally find that if I can be mindful while 445 00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:53.720 I'm folding my laundry, it's actually a little bit easier 446 00:20:54.220 --> 00:20:56.500 than if I'm already thinking about, I need to rush 447 00:20:56.539 --> 00:20:58.279 through this so that I can do this next thing. 448 00:20:58.420 --> 00:21:00.900 You know, it can actually make it a lot nicer 449 00:21:00.980 --> 00:21:03.259 of a chore than it otherwise would be. Yeah. 450 00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:06.960 Because when we're distracted, it's when it's the most unenjoyable. 451 00:21:07.019 --> 00:21:08.440 I'm like, I'm just doing this thing until I get 452 00:21:08.460 --> 00:21:09.069 to the next thing. 453 00:21:09.369 --> 00:21:10.660 Exactly. Exactly. 454 00:21:11.460 --> 00:21:13.380 One of the things that I've seen most talked about 455 00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:16.960 a lot for the effectiveness for treating ADHD through therapy 456 00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:19.880 is the cognitive behavioral therapy. And I kind of wanted 457 00:21:19.930 --> 00:21:21.589 to hear a little bit more about your thoughts on 458 00:21:21.609 --> 00:21:22.150 that aspect. 459 00:21:22.670 --> 00:21:25.829 Cognitive behavioral therapy is so great because they're concrete skills 460 00:21:25.869 --> 00:21:28.809 that you can learn to train your brain. And that's 461 00:21:28.829 --> 00:21:31.039 what I really like about it because it's really hands-on 462 00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:33.940 and you're giving people tools that can change their life 463 00:21:34.039 --> 00:21:38.460 right away. So cognitive behavioral therapy traditionally doesn't focus so 464 00:21:38.539 --> 00:21:40.960 much on, you know, okay, like, let's go all the 465 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:43.220 way back to your childhood to see when these patterns 466 00:21:43.259 --> 00:21:46.109 were established. It's much more in the here and now, like, okay, 467 00:21:46.230 --> 00:21:48.650 this is a problem that you're struggling with. Let's see 468 00:21:48.690 --> 00:21:50.670 how we can solve it. And so I think that 469 00:21:50.730 --> 00:21:54.190 definitely has its place and is very effective in helping 470 00:21:54.230 --> 00:21:57.690 people with ADHD overcome certain difficulties. One of the things 471 00:21:57.710 --> 00:22:00.759 that I love showing my clients how to do is 472 00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:04.500 a technique to train their attention the way that you 473 00:22:04.539 --> 00:22:07.920 might train physically, you know, like going from walking to 474 00:22:07.980 --> 00:22:10.859 jogging or like gradually lifting more and more weights. And 475 00:22:10.900 --> 00:22:13.140 I try to explain that, you know, your attention is 476 00:22:13.240 --> 00:22:16.849 actually a trainable skill. And when you have ADHD, maybe 477 00:22:16.869 --> 00:22:18.970 you're starting at a place where that skill isn't as 478 00:22:19.009 --> 00:22:22.150 strong as the average person, but in the end, you 479 00:22:22.190 --> 00:22:25.170 can train it up and be better than you were 480 00:22:25.210 --> 00:22:29.089 maybe yesterday or a month ago. And the This activity 481 00:22:29.170 --> 00:22:32.460 essentially just involves you picking a task that you have 482 00:22:32.500 --> 00:22:36.539 to do and then setting the timer on your phone for, 483 00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:39.490 let's say, 15 minutes to start, you know, make sure 484 00:22:39.529 --> 00:22:41.910 before you start this task that you get rid of 485 00:22:41.950 --> 00:22:44.349 all the distractors. So, you know, get the snack, you know, 486 00:22:44.390 --> 00:22:46.549 have a waters, you know, go to the restroom so 487 00:22:46.569 --> 00:22:48.250 that you can't in the middle of the task say, oh, 488 00:22:48.289 --> 00:22:50.190 now I got to go do this thing. And then, 489 00:22:50.329 --> 00:22:52.710 you know, of course, close up anything that could be distracting, 490 00:22:52.750 --> 00:22:55.950 like your phone's notifications are off, et cetera. And then 491 00:22:56.109 --> 00:22:57.970 you just sit down to do this task. And then 492 00:22:57.990 --> 00:23:00.950 you also bring with you a piece of scratch paper 493 00:23:01.269 --> 00:23:03.509 and a writing utensil. And that's it. So then you 494 00:23:03.549 --> 00:23:05.930 start the timer, you start doing the task, and you're 495 00:23:05.950 --> 00:23:08.170 going to notice that, you know, pretty soon in your 496 00:23:08.230 --> 00:23:10.690 thought is going to wonder and you're going to say, oh, well, 497 00:23:10.869 --> 00:23:12.289 maybe I need to do this other thing or I 498 00:23:12.309 --> 00:23:15.039 have to go shopping later or, oh, we need more milk. 499 00:23:15.099 --> 00:23:17.920 Like whatever happens, all you're going to do is turn 500 00:23:17.960 --> 00:23:21.069 to that piece of paper. Jot down in shorthand what 501 00:23:21.089 --> 00:23:23.089 that thought was. Don't spend any more time on it. 502 00:23:23.109 --> 00:23:24.789 Just write it down and then go right back to 503 00:23:24.829 --> 00:23:27.329 the task. So you keep doing this throughout the 15 minutes. 504 00:23:27.349 --> 00:23:29.609 And then when the timer goes off, you can check 505 00:23:29.710 --> 00:23:32.650 that scratch paper next to you just to kind of look, okay, well, 506 00:23:32.869 --> 00:23:34.609 this thought was nothing. That's not anything. 507 00:23:34.630 --> 00:23:34.970 Oh, okay. 508 00:23:34.990 --> 00:23:36.450 But I do have to go get more milk. So 509 00:23:36.470 --> 00:23:38.250 that was something that I could probably put on my 510 00:23:38.269 --> 00:23:40.670 to-do list because that's important. But essentially what you're going 511 00:23:40.690 --> 00:23:43.230 to find

is that over time, you will be able 512 00:23:43.259 --> 00:23:46.279 to do longer and longer periods of time like this 513 00:23:46.299 --> 00:23:49.670 where you're just focused on one task. And then because 514 00:23:49.710 --> 00:23:53.190 you have this sort of like capture technique, you're always 515 00:23:53.230 --> 00:23:56.309 going to be able to return to whatever random meandering 516 00:23:56.349 --> 00:23:59.289 you had, especially if it was important for some reason. 517 00:23:59.670 --> 00:24:01.019 And most of the times you're going to find that 518 00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:03.220 you just have all these random thoughts and they don't 519 00:24:03.259 --> 00:24:06.539 really actually matter. And also over time, as you do 520 00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:08.559 this exercise and train your brain, you're going to find 521 00:24:08.599 --> 00:24:10.920 that less and less of your thoughts are going to 522 00:24:10.940 --> 00:24:12.980 be those that kind of don't make a difference. They're 523 00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:15.240 just trying to pull you away. And more and more, 524 00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:17.309 your thoughts are really going to be things like, oh, 525 00:24:17.329 --> 00:24:19.119 this is actually an important task I have to attend 526 00:24:19.140 --> 00:24:22.450 to later. So I've helped my clients use this technique. 527 00:24:22.789 --> 00:24:26.170 It's very, very simple in theory. And if you just 528 00:24:26.329 --> 00:24:29.470 start with one task a day for 10, 15 minutes, 529 00:24:29.529 --> 00:24:31.390 the next week you can go up to 20 minutes 530 00:24:31.450 --> 00:24:33.849 for one task. And then the next week you can 531 00:24:33.890 --> 00:24:35.829 go up to 25 minutes for a task. And that's 532 00:24:35.869 --> 00:24:38.109 how you can strengthen your attention muscle. 533 00:24:38.500 --> 00:24:41.319 That sounds like a great way to really get yourself 534 00:24:41.380 --> 00:24:43.769 to pay attention to what you're doing and then build 535 00:24:44.069 --> 00:24:44.829 into other skills. 536 00:24:45.339 --> 00:24:47.440 Yeah, build into other skills. And I also think that 537 00:24:47.539 --> 00:24:51.680 this is an especially great training technique for tasks you 538 00:24:51.720 --> 00:24:54.119 really don't want to do, like paying bills. You're like, 539 00:24:54.279 --> 00:24:57.099 that's so boring. But if you can tell yourself, well, 540 00:24:57.119 --> 00:24:58.380 I just have to sit down and do it for 541 00:24:58.380 --> 00:25:01.190 15 minutes. You know, most people can tolerate 15 minutes 542 00:25:01.210 --> 00:25:03.349 without too much distress. And so I think it can 543 00:25:03.390 --> 00:25:05.990 really help with tasks that you really don't want to do. 544 00:25:06.230 --> 00:25:09.089 That's a good one to use these types of techniques on. 545 00:25:09.779 --> 00:25:11.160 And then, like you said, you can build it into 546 00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:13.140 other skills. It's like, OK, well, now I

feel more 547 00:25:13.180 --> 00:25:15.539 confident that I can do something for 30 minutes at 548 00:25:15.559 --> 00:25:17.980 a time and not feel so much distress. And now 549 00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:20.400 I can maybe tackle that big project that I've been 550 00:25:20.440 --> 00:25:22.549 putting off for a week because now I have more 551 00:25:22.589 --> 00:25:24.349 confidence in my ability to focus. 552 00:25:24.829 --> 00:25:26.549 The other thing was also make me think about it. 553 00:25:26.569 --> 00:25:29.089 So the getting set up part really reminded me of 554 00:25:29.130 --> 00:25:31.690 how I sit down to write episodes, making sure I 555 00:25:31.730 --> 00:25:34.109 have everything in place, having something to take notes on 556 00:25:34.170 --> 00:25:36.049 on the side so that I can sit down and 557 00:25:36.170 --> 00:25:38.670 just focus. And then combining with that idea of like, yeah, 558 00:25:38.730 --> 00:25:41.180 everyone should have about 15 minutes they can do these things. 559 00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:43.180 And then if that's not the case where you're like 560 00:25:43.180 --> 00:25:46.660 15 minutes would be impossible for me, then go non-judgmentally like, well, 561 00:25:46.900 --> 00:25:49.299 why not? What is keeping that from happening? Is it 562 00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:51.019 just the thoughts or is it because I have so 563 00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:53.240 many distractions in place already? Like I don't have a 564 00:25:53.259 --> 00:25:55.240 place I could sit down without distractions or something. 565 00:25:55.539 --> 00:26:01.089 Yeah, that's such a great point. I And that's what's 566 00:26:01.130 --> 00:26:03.750 taking us away rather than what's really going on. And 567 00:26:04.029 --> 00:26:06.970 I found that sometimes, you know, especially after COVID and 568 00:26:06.990 --> 00:26:09.470 the height of COVID, some of my work is from home, 569 00:26:09.569 --> 00:26:11.349 you know, much more than it used to be. And 570 00:26:11.450 --> 00:26:13.920 sometimes it is too distracting to be at home and 571 00:26:13.960 --> 00:26:16.279 to do this work because, you know, you're always pulled 572 00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:18.039 away by something like, oh, I could also be doing 573 00:26:18.059 --> 00:26:20.519 my laundry in between or, you know, there's always something else. 574 00:26:20.940 --> 00:26:24.170 And so sometimes I will just go to a coffee 575 00:26:24.210 --> 00:26:26.569 shop or go to the library and say, I'm just 576 00:26:26.589 --> 00:26:28.609 going to do this for the next hour to two 577 00:26:28.650 --> 00:26:30.299 hours so that I can actually really focus. I mean, 578 00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:32.960 I think that focusing has become harder and harder and 579 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:35.900 harder because sometimes I'll be on my laptop working on 580 00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:38.769 a neuropsych report and then I'll have five emails come 581 00:26:38.849 --> 00:26:40.670 in and it's like popping up and I'm thinking, oh 582 00:26:40.690 --> 00:26:42.289 my gosh, I have to stop and email them back 583 00:26:42.329 --> 00:26:44.089 right now. And so I think that whether you have 584 00:26:44.130 --> 00:26:47.269 ADHD or not, attention is a hard thing to have 585 00:26:47.309 --> 00:26:50.269 these days, especially with how much technology is just constantly 586 00:26:50.309 --> 00:26:52.650 disrupting our ability to pay attention. 587 00:26:52.970 --> 00:26:54.839 I mean, that's one of the interesting things I see 588 00:26:54.880 --> 00:26:56.220 with people being like, oh yeah, I used to be 589 00:26:56.259 --> 00:26:58.079 able to read so much and I find it so hard. 590 00:26:58.119 --> 00:27:00.119 And I'm like, well, when you're trying to read, do 591 00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:01.819 you have your phone right next to you? Do you 592 00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:05.099 have this like easy out whenever things get boring? And 593 00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:06.799 I'm like, It is harder for me to read when 594 00:27:06.859 --> 00:27:08.579 I have that easy out right next to me. But 595 00:27:08.619 --> 00:27:10.400 if I'm sitting on a plane and I don't have 596 00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:12.440 anything else to do, that's real easy to read. 597 00:27:13.039 --> 00:27:15.980 Oh, the best. You're so focused on the plane. Yeah. 598 00:27:16.039 --> 00:27:17.980 You know, when I fly, I try not to tap 599 00:27:18.059 --> 00:27:20.990 into the Wi-Fi. Like sometimes if I have to work 600 00:27:21.009 --> 00:27:22.509 when I'm on a plane, yes, I will. But like 601 00:27:22.730 --> 00:27:25.440 if I don't, It's so nice because then you just 602 00:27:25.539 --> 00:27:29.740 do like the in-flight activities and they're kind of simple, 603 00:27:29.779 --> 00:27:31.859 but they're kind of nice. It's a form of mindfulness, right? 604 00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:33.980 Like you either watch the movie or you play a 605 00:27:34.019 --> 00:27:36.769 game on that, the little screen, or you listen to 606 00:27:36.809 --> 00:27:39.309 the radio that they provide, but you're not doing like 607 00:27:39.329 --> 00:27:41.269 a million other things at the same time. Yeah. 608 00:27:41.289 --> 00:27:43.670 And so one of the funny things with my kids, like, yeah, 609 00:27:43.690 --> 00:27:46.369 they absolutely get screen time, but like sometimes they'll be like, yeah, 610 00:27:46.390 --> 00:27:47.630 we're not going to do that right now. And then 611 00:27:47.650 --> 00:27:50.220 they do find something else to do. Like they may 612 00:27:50.380 --> 00:27:51.900 initially be like, I'm bored and I don't want to 613 00:27:51.920 --> 00:27:54.930 do anything. And frustrated with like how much they're being 614 00:27:54.950 --> 00:27:57.319 like i just want to do pokemon go or whatever 615 00:27:57.339 --> 00:27:59.359 and i'm like okay well we'll find something else and 616 00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:01.299 they always do one of the things i always focus 617 00:28:01.339 --> 00:28:03.400

adhd is i'm like yeah i'll get bored but i 618 00:28:03.529 --> 00:28:05.190 i will get on board real quick i will find 619 00:28:05.230 --> 00:28:05.890 a way to not be. 620 00:28:05.809 --> 00:28:07.809 Bored Oh, yeah. I know that's like one of the 621 00:28:07.849 --> 00:28:10.910 superpowers of ADHD, I feel like, is like you will 622 00:28:10.990 --> 00:28:13.150 find something that you can be engaged in. You'll be 623 00:28:13.190 --> 00:28:15.609 probably more motivated than the average person to do that. 624 00:28:16.289 --> 00:28:18.390 And of course, as you I'm sure know, you know, 625 00:28:18.529 --> 00:28:21.500 one of the superpowers also of ADHD is hyper focus, 626 00:28:21.559 --> 00:28:24.200 you know, and sometimes that can be utilized for like 627 00:28:24.420 --> 00:28:28.240 great good rather than taking you away and distracting you. 628 00:28:28.740 --> 00:28:31.029 from something that you should be doing. I mean, I've 629 00:28:31.049 --> 00:28:34.750 seen people, again, when they have ADHD, when they're interested 630 00:28:34.769 --> 00:28:37.609 in something, I mean, they have the most intense focus 631 00:28:37.630 --> 00:28:39.170 that I've ever seen. I think that that is a 632 00:28:39.190 --> 00:28:42.109 superpower because it's almost like they don't get tired. They 633 00:28:42.130 --> 00:28:43.210 just keep going. Yeah. 634 00:28:43.230 --> 00:28:45.390 I always just try to remind people, it's like, yeah, hyperfocus, 635 00:28:45.529 --> 00:28:48.109 great for getting stuff done, but kind of a double-edged 636 00:28:48.150 --> 00:28:51.079 sword too, because you're probably drawing on your future reserves 637 00:28:51.190 --> 00:28:54.200 of mental energy. I don't know if I'll really work 638 00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:56.089 on something and I'll come out the other side, I'm like, no, 639 00:28:56.119 --> 00:28:57.079 I'm not doing anything for a week. 640 00:28:57.339 --> 00:28:59.609 Exactly. You're like, now I'm burnt out for the next 641 00:28:59.619 --> 00:29:00.089 five days. 642 00:29:01.140 --> 00:29:03.130 All right. I was wondering if there's anything you kind 643 00:29:03.150 --> 00:29:04.849 of wanted to leave the audience with or any other 644 00:29:04.890 --> 00:29:06.289 topics that we wanted to hit. 645 00:29:06.769 --> 00:29:09.650 This has been a great conversation. I just love that 646 00:29:09.910 --> 00:29:13.009 you're shedding light on ADHD in so many different ways. 647 00:29:13.089 --> 00:29:14.869 And I think that it's always important to know that 648 00:29:15.150 --> 00:29:17.799 even though you may have started to think about your 649 00:29:17.819 --> 00:29:21.619 ADHD as a more negative thing, as maybe an area 650 00:29:21.859 --> 00:29:26.109 of weakness or in your skill, There's so many benefits 651 00:29:26.170 --> 00:29:28.490 of it, too, you know, and it's really learning to 652 00:29:28.819 --> 00:29:30.940 work with the way that your brain works. And I've 653 00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:32.940 seen just so much success in the people that I've 654 00:29:32.980 --> 00:29:35.440 worked with who have ADHD and started to believe in 655 00:29:35.480 --> 00:29:38.130 themselves and find essentially the hacks that really work for 656 00:29:38.170 --> 00:29:40.009 them to be able to achieve all the things. that 657 00:29:40.029 --> 00:29:42.309 they want. And so I just love that we're having 658 00:29:42.329 --> 00:29:46.250 this conversation about just all the different dimensions of ADHD 659 00:29:46.269 --> 00:29:47.299 and what it's like to live with it. 660 00:29:47.569 --> 00:29:50.059 It's all about just finding, working with your own brain 661 00:29:50.119 --> 00:29:52.390 rather than what you think should work. 662 00:29:52.859 --> 00:29:54.839 Oh, yeah. And I think that that's the hardest thing, right? 663 00:29:54.859 --> 00:29:57.769 Because sometimes you'll look on social media or You'll read 664 00:29:57.789 --> 00:29:59.670 an online article and you think, oh, well, how come 665 00:29:59.690 --> 00:30:01.630 this hack doesn't work for me? How come this skill 666 00:30:01.650 --> 00:30:04.130 doesn't motivate me? And it just means that your brain 667 00:30:04.150 --> 00:30:06.390 works differently. You know, you try them on for size. 668 00:30:06.410 --> 00:30:08.349 If they don't work, that's OK. Everybody's going to find 669 00:30:08.390 --> 00:30:11.569 their own unique toolkit. And even people without ADHD are 670 00:30:11.609 --> 00:30:15.259 going to encounter those kinds of challenges from time to time. Absolutely. 671 00:30:15.730 --> 00:30:16.099 All right. 672 00:30:16.279 --> 00:30:18.900 If people wanted to find out more about you, your 673 00:30:19.019 --> 00:30:20.920 work or your books, where would be the best place 674 00:30:20.940 --> 00:30:22.170 to find out more information about you? 675 00:30:22.730 --> 00:30:24.849 Well, you can find me on social media at Dr. 676 00:30:24.890 --> 00:30:29.339 Judy Ho, or you can also go to my website, drjudyho.com. 677 00:30:29.380 --> 00:30:31.660 I have tons of free resources on there. And also, 678 00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:33.200 if you sign up for my newsletter, then you'll get 679 00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:36.289 weekly free resources delivered to your inbox. Awesome. 680 00:30:36.349 --> 00:30:38.250 Well, I'll get all that in the show notes so 681 00:30:38.289 --> 00:30:40.089 that people can find you real easily. Thank you so 682 00:30:40.130 --> 00:30:41.009 much for coming on the show. 683 00:30:41.190 --> 00:30:42.710 Thank you so much. Well, it was a lot of fun. 684 00:30:49.549 --> 00:30:51.609 Thanks again to Dr. Judy Ho for coming on the show, 685 00:30:51.809 --> 00:30:53.589 and thank you for sticking with us all the way 686 00:30:53.609 --> 00:30:55.730 to the end. Before you go, though, let's do a 687 00:30:55.750 --> 00:30:59.849 quick rundown of today's top tips. 1. Train your attention 688 00:31:00.029 --> 00:31:02.390 like a muscle. Use a simple task and set a 689 00:31:02.410 --> 00:31:05.130 timer for 15 minutes and gradually increase the time to 690 00:31:05.170 --> 00:31:08.390 strengthen focus. You can also work on capturing distracting thoughts 691 00:31:08.430 --> 00:31:11.619 by keeping a notepad nearby while working, jotting down distractions 692 00:31:11.660 --> 00:31:15.440 without letting them derail your task. 2. Try to use 693 00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:19.240 multimodal mindfulness, which involves engaging multiple senses to stay focused. 694 00:31:19.720 --> 00:31:22.240 such as reading or taking notes, and then combining those 695 00:31:22.309 --> 00:31:27.910 activities with a visual or auditory element. 3. If you're procrastinating, 696 00:31:28.109 --> 00:31:32.609 ask yourself why and address the underlying reasons, whether it's fear, failure, 697 00:31:32.789 --> 00:31:35.890 or overthinking. Often procrastination is a sign that you have 698 00:31:35.970 --> 00:31:39.069 some need that is being unmet. Addressing that need can 699 00:31:39.170 --> 00:31:43.609 often help get you unstuck and get you through that procrastination. Alright, 700 00:31:43.710 --> 00:31:46.069 that's it. Thanks for listening. I'd love to hear what 701 00:31:46.089 --> 00:31:48.420 you thought of this episode. feel free to connect with 702 00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:52.460 me over at hackingyouradhd.com slash contact. If you'd like links 703 00:31:52.519 --> 00:31:54.569 or to read this episode's transcript, you can go to 704 00:31:54.609 --> 00:32:01.859 the show notes page at hackingyouradhd.com slash 197. And now 705 00:32:01.990 --> 00:32:05.339 for your moment of dad. Incorrectly is the only word 706 00:32:05.460 --> 00:32:08.579 that once spelled correctly is still spelled incorrectly.