התמלול המלא של How Multinationals Can Leapfrog to Sustainability Leadership, with Dani Matthews, Co-Founder at Abundium

our subsidiaries to be innovative. 00:04:40.240 --> 00:04:42.639 We call Australia the innovation nation. 00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:51.920 So how can we pilot, test, and learn here and then leapfrog that innovation back to the rest of the world and not always be the ones who receive the innovation? 00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:53.600 It needs to be a yes and. 00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:55.839 But that's what we mean by leapfrog. 00:04:55.839 --> 00:04:58.560 And I think it really relates to the sustainability agenda. 00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:01.519 Like we need to keep our energy up, we need to keep innovating. 00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:07.759 Because if we feel like we're always laggards to Europe or other parts of the world, it's not very motivating. 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:16.639 How do you think this can relate to innovation within sustainability strategy for the organizations that are a part of your network? 00:05:16.959 --> 00:05:17.839 Great question, Dan. 00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:20.079 And I might share a previous example. 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:26.399 When Nikki Sparchot was the ANZ country leader at Unilever, he's a great friend of Abundium. 00:05:26.399 --> 00:05:31.519 She piloted the ANZ region on a couple of things to really test this concept. 00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:36.560 So they became a B Corp in the ANZ entity, even though the mothership wasn't. 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:42.480 And as you know, that's a very rigorous criteria, especially for a multinational NFMCG, to achieve. 00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:46.720 And she also piloted the four-day work week in New Zealand initially. 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:51.360 So I think New Zealand's a great test nation, even more because it's a smaller population. 00:05:51.360 --> 00:05:54.480 So you could almost try it there first, come to ANZ. 00:05:54.480 --> 00:06:05.839 So I think that's an example where she took that bold leadership and then ended up becoming the global chief of transformation for Unilever because she had been bold and experimented here. 00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:10.879 So I think that's a you know a great previous example of how this can actually come to life. 00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:11.600 Yeah. 00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:17.920 You know, in terms of that leadership way of thinking, you use a term specifically, which is mind frames. 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:25.600 And that term actually came from my co-founder Rich Hearst, because as you'll know, with all the neuroplasticity research, our minds aren't set. 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:32.000 So we prefer the word mind frames because we, you know, we're we're malleable and we can change our neurology. 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:34.560 So that's um where the term came from. 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:38.160 And in terms of belief, I've been thinking a lot about this recently. 00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:45.759 And if we disbelieve, if we disbelieve in the net zero transition or our sustainability strategies, we probably will never achieve them. 00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:52.240 And

belief doesn't necessarily guarantee you'll get there, but it's a lot higher chance you will than if you don't believe. 00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:59.519 And a high performance researcher I love, and I've had the privilege of going through his program, Andy Meekle from a company called Elkium. 00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:04.560 He's researched Nobel Prize winners, the late Nelson Mandela, amazing athletes. 00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:11.360 And one thing he's distilled from all these leading pioneers is that they believe when there's no proof. 00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:15.600 And I think that relates to this topic because we've never been there before. 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:19.279 You know, we haven't ever got to this 2030 vision. 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:21.839 And if we don't believe we're going to get there, we never will. 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:25.040 I'm a big believer in the law of attraction and where our thoughts go. 00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:30.000 And if we believe, we're open to possibilities and we'll embrace new technologies. 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:35.360 Like there could be things that are going to be released in two years' time that can leapfrog us to get there. 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:37.839 But if we disbelieve, it's a dangerous cycle. 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:42.319 We we do a lot of work with leadership teams on instilling this belief. 00:07:42.319 --> 00:07:47.279 And it can't be fake belief because you can try and get yourself to think something. 00:07:47.279 --> 00:07:52.160 I've really been thinking, how do we feel it in our nervous system, in our body? 00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:59.519 It's a whole capacity piece as leaders to develop so that we truly believe. 00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:09.040 And I think that feeds quite nicely into something that you've said before, which is that a lot of ESG leaders are being set up to fail. 00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:19.120 How do you believe we can shift their roles from constant performance mode to including the learning and well-being that is so important to their ongoing success? 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:20.240 Yeah, thanks, Dan. 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:26.720 We we talk about the growth triangle at Abundium, which is this idea, as you said, you know, performance learning and well-being. 00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:33.279 Because if we get stuck in performance, which I think we've been da in danger of with the ESG professionals, it's not sustainable. 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:44.720 I've met so many, and I know you have too, who have burnt out and their passion has been driven into compliance and reporting, and they've lost that initial energy that got them into the profession. 00:08:44.720 --> 00:08:54.720 If we want sustained performance, we have to make sure that they're getting opportunities to learn, to restore themselves, build their own sustainable practices and energy management. 00:08:54.720 --> 00:09:00.159 In COVID, we found that sustainability was in the top three priorities when we surveyed our members. 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:06.320 I think people got time, they stopped, they saw the impact, and now it's sort of gone lower down the priority list. 00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:18.799 And there's a risk with that that sustainability roles become more of a side desk role again, where it's not properly resourced, they have too many things that they have to achieve, so that they they're just chronically in performance. 00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:21.120 And as we know, you can just burn out that way. 00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:22.720 Yeah, absolutely. 00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:27.279 Um, and with your experience working with multinationals, right? 00:09:27.279 --> 00:09:44.080 I wonder if there are some good examples of how multinationals can access global voices, talent mobility, learnings from overseas to help unlock not just sustainability implementation across the organization, but also commercial opportunities. 00:09:44.240 --> 00:09:49.919 The reason why we love working with global multinationals because you have this rich, diverse talent environment. 00:09:49.919 --> 00:09:53.039 Leaders are leading across borders, across cultures. 00:09:53.039 --> 00:09:57.679 You can learn what people are doing in other subsidiaries and create communities of practice. 00:09:57.679 --> 00:10:04.720 The company that does that really well is Schneider Electric, who Time magazine voted the world's most sustainable company. 00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:12.000 I've had the privilege of meeting some of their team members at COP28 in Dubai previously and in different parts of the globe. 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:22.639 And they've got like an impact maker ideology and framework and some of the principles I talked about about leading with ambition and thinking big, they really embody. 00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:29.120 That's the great thing, is if we don't just think inside our own building, let's think about what are other subsidiaries doing? 00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:32.799 How can we learn from what they're doing in Singapore for a pilot? 00:10:32.799 --> 00:10:36.159 And obviously there's got to be nuances to your local environment. 00:10:36.159 --> 00:10:42.159 But I just think, yeah, talent mobility, how can we actually get with a lot of the restructures that are happening? 00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:47.279 How can we maybe bring someone from another subsidiary here to inject energy and innovation? 00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:49.840 So I think it's a really exciting time for talent. 00:10:49.840 --> 00:10:54.720 Like I've heard our CEOs say there's more talent on the market at the moment than they've ever known. 00:10:54.720 --> 00:10:58.960 And how can we harness that and think a bit differently about it as well? 00:10:59.679 --> 00:11:00.399 It's fascinating. 00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:07.039 So I know um you've been speaking to quite a few CFOs recently, and they they clearly need those case studies. 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:20.960 How are you seeing the dynamic between the CEO, the CFO, and the chief

people officer in determining whether a sustainability strategy actually gains traction instead of remaining on the to-do list for years on end? 00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:21.679 Thanks, Dan. 00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:27.919 Well, yes, we call that the trusted triangle, the relationship between the CEO, the chief people officer, and the CFO. 00:11:27.919 --> 00:11:38.799 And it's just such an engine of the business, because if you can align, you know, the people, the finances, and the strategy together, which is where I believe sustainability strategy, you know, should sit. 00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:42.879 It can't just be with the chief sustainability officer if you have one. 00:11:42.879 --> 00:11:45.919 It has to be a heart of the business strategy. 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:48.960 I think it's just such a powerful engine. 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:55.679 And we're finding, you know, those trusted triangles that are aligned to this is where they're getting the most traction. 00:11:55.679 --> 00:12:02.240 Um, like DHL Supply Chain, one of our members, it's just a core part of their 2030 vision. 00:12:02.240 --> 00:12:11.759 And the more that it's, you know, talked about in the normal leadership meetings and it's on the agenda, it's not a side thing that's discussed in the water cooler moments. 00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:14.960 Like this is just a core part of doing business here as well. 00:12:14.960 --> 00:12:18.639 But the CFOs you mentioned, really interesting persona in this. 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:24.559 So we've recently launched a CFO forum, so a true peer network for CFOs. 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:29.200 And as you know, a lot of them are now responsible for mandatory reporting. 00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:33.519 Some of our members are in the first tranche, some it will come later down the track. 00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:40.559 But for them, without the right framing, this can seem like a burden because it's another cost to their PL. 00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:43.360 It's on top of their normal financial auditing. 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:51.279 And there, there's a risk that we've heard from them that the cost and the time are being allocated to compliance rather than creativity. 00:12:51.279 --> 00:13:00.480 So I think it's really important we take CFOs on the journey and see this as a competitive advantage rather than a burden or a compliance piece. 00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:03.120 It's it's really, really interesting to hear that. 00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:14.879 How do you see CFOs being supported in moving past this frustration of the reporting costs and the compliance focus to see sustainability as that commercial value driver? 00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:20.799 Well, one of our masterclass previous speakers, Stephen Kotler, says frustration is the gateway to flow. 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:36.240 So I actually think the frustration is a healthy tension because it's often in that frustration where we're challenging and we're trying to work out what this all means is that the breakthroughs come and then we get this beautiful state of flow, which I feel like is coming. 00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:39.759 And I think sustainability, if you look back over time, there's ebbs and flows. 00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:43.919 You know, you have a real peak period, you lose a bit of momentum and you plateau. 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:48.720 And then I feel like we're sort of big plateauing a bit, but then we're we're back on the rise. 00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:54.480 So I think for CFOs, case studies are great if they can see how this could be a legacy for them. 00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:58.320 Like if they're leaders in this space, what a great piece for their career. 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:02.720 And to actually be leaders in this space and help it be a competitive advantage. 00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:07.360 Because we know for young leaders, this is a really important topic on average. 00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:12.639 So a talent retraction strategy when they're looking to recruit, you know, finance leaders into their team. 00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:14.639 So I think it's really reframing. 00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:20.639 And I'm optimistic that this frustration is going to lead to flow, but they need good role models. 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:26.480 I think they need education, you know, to actually go on whether it's a Cambridge short course like we did, Loreto. 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:28.720 I think that would be really beneficial too. 00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:35.200 It's really exciting to hear that it has been a part of the conversations that you've had through the CFO forum. 00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:42.000 You have this really unique perspective, very macro view of the business ecosystem. 00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:51.600 So I'd love to talk a little bit about multinationals in Australia and different approaches that different multinationals might have as they operate in the country. 00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:55.759 One interesting parallel could be where they are headquartered. 00:14:55.759 --> 00:15:11.840 In your experience, how does a European headquartered organization, for example, you mentioned DHL, would differ from a US headquartered organization, even in, you know, when it comes to their appetite for those bold sustainability pilots in Australia? 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:13.200 What have you seen? 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:15.039 It's a great question, Loreto. 00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:20.080 And as you say, we have the privilege of having lots of different global HQs. 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:21.919 So we really do see trends. 00:15:21.919 --> 00:15:31.360 And I do have to say, on average, you know, our European headquartered members have really been leading in this space and continue, continue to inspire us. 00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:36.000 But to give your listeners a case study, as you mentioned, DHL supply chain. 00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:43.519 So they're a global logistics company headquartered in Germany, and their sustainability strategy is aligned with the

Paris Agreement. 00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:49.679 And from a European HQ perspective, they've invested heavily in sustainable fuels for their vehicle fleets. 00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:53.600 So they're really delivering real measurable carbon reductions. 00:15:53.600 --> 00:16:00.320 And interesting for Australia, because as you know here, sustainable transport fuels aren't widely available. 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:04.799 Yet DHL have decided to not rely on traditional carbon offsets here. 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:18.480 Instead, it's using global carbon and insetting model, which I thought was quite innovative, where the emissions that they're achieving in Europe through their cleaner, more efficient fuels, they're pulled and then they're applied across their global network. 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:22.240 So our local CEO we work with, is very passionate in this space. 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:28.159 His customers can reduce their supply chain emissions before the local infrastructure here catches up. 00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:34.480 So I thought that's a great example with, you know, the European leading the way, how we can actually benefit here. 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:41.279 And they're still in the early stages partnering with customers on the model, but I think how can we use scale to drive real emissions? 00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:45.120 Because we know offsets are a bit of a band-aid solution as well. 00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:48.480 And for us, we often say progress trumps perfection. 00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:49.600 There's a danger here. 00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:52.799 If we wait for perfection, it's never going to arrive. 00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:54.159 You know, nothing's perfect. 00:16:54.159 --> 00:16:58.799 So how can we learn together, grow together, bring our customers on the journey? 00:16:58.799 --> 00:16:59.919 And I was inspired. 00:16:59.919 --> 00:17:03.360 I met their team at the COP28 event in Dubai. 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:09.119 They had a separate innovation event where I saw some of their green fleet and met some of their local teams. 00:17:09.119 --> 00:17:11.440 And I just think that's the thing with global companies. 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:15.279 You can something that happens in one subsidiary can be paid forward to another. 00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:20.240 And we all can rise together rather than trying to compete in different subsidiaries. 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:23.920 Better together is one of our sayings at Tibundium as well. 00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:32.240 I think the secondary or tertiary benefit of that is it's showing the local market what's possible. 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:42.079 And there's so much power in that, in in removing the need for innovation or creativity in every discipline. 00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:46.480 It's saying this is already being done, this has been launched, this is going ahead. 00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:51.119 The decision is not do we create it out of thin air or not. 00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:54.240 The decision is do we

get involved or not? 00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:56.960 And they're vastly different decisions to be made. 00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:04.960 Yeah, and I think it takes the pressure off because sometimes, you know, as executives, we talk a lot about the difference between functional leadership and enterprise leadership. 00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:14.480 So, you know, you grow, grow in your function, whether you're a sustainability lead, finance lead, but then when you get to that top job often, you've actually got a different role as an enterprise leader. 00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:32.240 You're holding the system, you've got to think and act differently, and you can have so many different pressures, you know, sustainability reporting, cybersecurity concerns, these, you know, geopolitical things, tariffs, these things are being thrown at our leaders every day, sometimes to be like, we don't have to reinvent the wheel. 00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:36.160 Let's receive help as much as we can give forward help. 00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:42.240 So I've been thinking with this belief model as well, how can we as leaders, we don't have to always have the answers. 00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:48.799 Let's let's receive some of that innovation from Europe or elsewhere, and then we've got more capacity to do other things. 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:54.799 And let's lean on our superpowers rather than trying to be experts in in all things. 00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:56.480 Yeah, absolutely. 00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:18.400 In terms of the younger generation and their the premium that they're placing on sustainability strategy, how are you seeing the current tech restructuring that's happening globally, but but also very much locally, and the abundance of talent now becoming available having an impact on how companies approach ESG from a retention tool perspective? 00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:19.200 Great question. 00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:26.640 And yes, we're we're hearing about the quiet restructure or the not so quiet restructure, depending on what company is being impacted. 00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:38.480 But yes, I spoke to a prominent tech CEO who's American HQ'd a couple of weeks ago, and she shared, yeah, there's more talent than ever, and I'm letting go people that I would have fought hard to hire a few years ago. 00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:40.880 So it's a really interesting environment. 00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:49.119 Where I am here at the moment in the Greenhouse Tech Cub, which you two know is a climate innovation hub in Sydney, there's you know more and more startups. 00:19:49.119 --> 00:19:56.079 So some of this talent is going into smaller startup scale-ups because this purpose is really important to them. 00:19:56.079 --> 00:20:03.279 And there's a risk that some global multinationals are going to not have this innovative talent in play. 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:12.880 And then they'll end up having to acquire companies that they could have actually built internally if they had their own, you know,

ventures and innovation hubs. 00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:14.640 So it's a really interesting time. 00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:26.559 And we're very sort of bold and ambitious in our thinking with our leaders is in tough times you actually need to invest for growth because Gartner had some great winning in the turns research after the GFC. 00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:34.079 The companies that stopped investing in people, you know, you look then at their future performance, and of course it plateaus. 00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:45.839 Whereas the companies that, okay, we're going to stick in this, we're going to keep investing in our people, the the positive projects, which often are the first things to go when times get tough, they actually outperform their peers. 00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:48.079 And the research was quite incredible. 00:20:48.079 --> 00:21:00.480 So I think, you know, my my counsel is you obviously have to be smart, but if you can hold the line and really hold on to your best people and back your products and innovation in the long term, I think you'll continue to win. 00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:01.920 Absolutely. 00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:05.680 And what a great um reminder of the importance of planning for the future. 00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:08.160 You know, downturns are followed by upturns. 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:11.039 So how important it is to plan for that as well. 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:19.839 Yeah, just to add to Loretta on that, we had a great masterclass speaker recently, Zainip Ton, who's written a great book called Good Jobs. 00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:22.319 And she's collaborated with, you know, MIT. 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:28.319 And she said that headcount freeze is the fastest way to kill transformation. 00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:30.000 But how often does that happen? 00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:34.799 We freeze people, we freeze costs, you know, no more subscriptions, no more this. 00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:43.119 And that yet we're expecting a huge change, transformation, and especially in the sustainability space, it's just counterintuitive. 00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:47.839 And she says we need to stop seeing our people as a cost, but as value creators. 00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:51.440 And that mind frame is so different to seeing your people as a cost. 00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:54.400 You know, my sustainability team, they're value creators. 00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:58.640 They're not a cost that I need to get rid of as soon as times are hard. 00:21:59.359 --> 00:21:59.759 Absolutely. 00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:15.839 In the last few years, we've had some really difficult times in Australia quite recently with the, you know, the recent um bushfires in Victoria, but you know, going back through past bushfire events, floods, and other large-scale weather events. 00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:25.920 Have you seen that effect or impact the urgency and the nature of reporting from multinationals, particularly those you work with, would typically land on Group One? 00:22:26.079 --> 00:22:35.759 Yeah, I think climate change is very visible here in Australia, as you alluded to, with the recent bushfires, you know, then the flash flooding in Victoria shortly afterwards. 00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:40.720 We have these extreme weather events here, which makes it very visible. 00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:52.079 And we know through our own clients that people are directly impacted who work for multinationals, you know, really connects to the hearts and minds of leaders when you visibly see that through your workforce. 00:22:52.079 --> 00:23:01.519 So I do think it has helped raise this on the agenda again, whether that's directly impacting on the reporting level we're yet to see. 00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:11.279 I was recently on a Tour de Cure fundraiser on the Great Ocean Road, and then you see that area impacted by the flash flooding, it really brings it closer to home. 00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:18.079 And you know, from a business point of view, insurance premiums are going sky high, depending on what business you're on. 00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:23.279 From an economical point of view, it really makes us think how can we become more climate resilient? 00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:26.000 If we care for our people, we need to prioritize this. 00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:28.400 So I do think it makes it more front of mind. 00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:30.880 It's just then how do we keep it front of mind? 00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:34.559 Because something else comes up and it's easily forgotten. 00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:41.680 So I think our job is how do we keep the hope up when we focus on all the negative impacts? 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:45.279 It can sort of be a bit dismotivating. 00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:51.599 Whereas if we focus on the hope and the potential, then it can change our frame of mind as well. 00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:53.200 Yeah, absolutely. 00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:55.119 Danny, this has been so much fun. 00:23:55.119 --> 00:24:04.799 What would you like to be a key takeaway for our listener to take with them into their organization based on what you're seeing and this conversation? 00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:18.480 Yeah, I think my key, key ask would be: if this has dropped from your leadership agenda, let's put it back on the agenda and stay curious rather than critical of team members in this area. 00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:28.240 Assume noble intentions, take that extra five minutes with your CFO to actually explain the impact of the reporting and and why this matters. 00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:31.839 My takeaway would be let's stay curious a bit longer. 00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:42.880 Let's keep asking questions, let's put this back on the agenda if it's slipped off, and let's share personal stories because I think it's through those personal stories we build that human connection as well. 00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:43.839 I love that. 00:24:43.839 --> 00:24:45.039 Yeah, can't agree more. 00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:47.039 Danny, it's been such a fun conversation.

00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:54.160 What we love doing before um wrapping up is to go through rapid, rapid fire around. 00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:57.920 What is one recommendation you could give to our listeners? 00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:01.440 It could be a thought-provoking book, a podcast, an article. 00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:13.200 Well, in addition to the green fix, which everyone's listening to already, I would add another podcast called Change Signals by Michael Bungay Stania, who's one of the world's leading executive coaches. 00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:16.880 Had the privilege to recently interview him again through a Bundium. 00:25:16.880 --> 00:25:20.160 And I think this sustainability journey, it's a change process. 00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:23.440 And anyone who's interested in change, this is a great resource. 00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:25.119 He's got so many great interviews. 00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:27.920 So Change Signals by Michael Bungay Stania. 00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:33.759 And who is someone who has inspired you that you think we should have on the podcast? 00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:34.720 Good question. 00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:36.960 I think I could fill a whole season for you. 00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:44.799 But the one that comes to mind has to be Paul Pullman, who I had the privilege to meet at COP28 in Dubai. 00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:48.559 And I'm sure your listeners know him well, former Unilever CEO. 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:51.839 You know, NetPositive is his book and movement. 00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:55.680 But I think Paul just brings this optimism and hope, which I love. 00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:59.279 And even just reading his latest dose of hope gave me encouragement. 00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:05.599 You know, the green economy is second to the tech economy with some great research by Boston Consulting Group. 00:26:05.599 --> 00:26:08.799 So Paul would be um somebody I'd love to hear on the podcast. 00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:10.240 And I can connect you as well. 00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:12.400 Yeah, that would be amazing. 00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:15.519 We love ending on a real positive note. 00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:20.640 So is there one piece of positive climate news that you could share with us? 00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:21.359 I love that. 00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:31.440 To end on the dose of hope, I think that last year saw record investments in renewables and sustained corporate climate action amongst all the geopolitical things in the world. 00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:40.400 And a Boston Consulting report showed that the global green economy has surpassed $5 trillion in annual value and is expected to exceed $7 trillion by 2030. 00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:47.759 The fact that it's the second fastest growing sector in the world outpaced by technology is really exciting, and that definitely gives me hope. 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:49.200 Yeah, that's incredible. 00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:53.200 And then finally, we are handing you the green fix magic wand. 00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:56.960 How would you like to use it to change one thing in the world? 00:26:57.359 --> 00:26:58.319 Big question. 00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:08.319 I think I would actually elevate more women in leadership because I've also got a big passion for gender diversity, and I think that would have a knock-on effect on positive climate action. 00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:22.079 You know, if we have a more gender-equal world, we've got more perspectives at that senior table, and I'm I'm part of some great women and climate groups, and I know there are just a great load of female leaders who care, whose voices aren't being heard. 00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:29.759 And I'm actually going to the UN in New York this International Women's Day month to be part of a conversation around justice for women and girls. 00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:33.119 I'd love to elevate more women and then more cross cultures. 00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:33.920 Wonderful. 00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:35.519 And yeah, I couldn't agree more, Danny. 00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:37.200 So great use of the magic wand. 00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:40.640 Danny, it has been such a great conversation. 00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:42.000 Thank you so much. 00:27:42.000 --> 00:28:02.559 Um, you have such a unique perspective on the business ecosystem, and it's really exciting to hear all of your insights, and it's also really exciting to see how you have managed to connect all of your business experience and turn it into actionable sustainability as well. 00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:03.920 So we love your work. 00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:08.160 Big fans, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. 00:28:08.559 --> 00:28:12.079 Well, thanks, Loreto and Dan, for giving us our regular green fix. 00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:13.440 And I just love your work. 00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:17.920 We need more sharing of stories and leaders to keep us all motivated. 00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:20.480 So I really appreciate the work you're doing.