התמלול המלא של Mindful Rewind: Lindsey Stirling

04:33.481 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, goodness. 04:33.561 --> 04:39.082 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think one of the ones I most specifically wrote about mental health was called Chatter Me. 04:39.342 --> 04:41.483 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's probably, it's very dramatic. 04:41.603 --> 04:42.563 [SPEAKER_01]: So let's go there. 04:43.503 --> 04:44.404 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, tell us all about it. 04:44.764 --> 04:51.908 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I wrote this song about like the best way that I could possibly personify what it felt like to be stuck in anorexia, you know? 04:52.048 --> 04:56.350 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was, I used this, um, this ballerina in a music box. 04:56.370 --> 05:00.373 [SPEAKER_01]: This beautiful porcelain, you know, ballerina who just looked like she had all together. 05:00.453 --> 05:02.314 [SPEAKER_01]: She looked like she was perfectly poised. 05:03.114 --> 05:14.422 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I remember I literally, when I was sick and when I was realizing I had a problem, I actually saw this little snow globe with a ballerina in it at a store. 05:14.622 --> 05:18.705 [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember just like having such an overwhelming feeling of like, that's me. 05:19.085 --> 05:29.012 [SPEAKER_01]: This disease, I've realized that I have, you know, I'd always thought these thoughts and these, this way of being was protecting me, kind of like that glass sphere looked like it was protecting this little ballerina. 05:29.052 --> 05:29.572 [SPEAKER_01]: But I was like, 05:32.194 --> 05:34.915 [SPEAKER_01]: is that less of a protection and is it actually a prison? 05:35.335 --> 05:44.798 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the way I'd realized this like disease was actually, you know, once upon a time, I'd accepted it to comfort me and make me feel like I had some control and then it started controlling me. 05:44.998 --> 05:48.700 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, anyways, so I wrote a song about my process. 05:48.720 --> 06:00.223 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, once a year's later when I had kind of come to grass was that and I was in a much better place, I wrote, shatter me about the fact that I had to learn to shatter not only the globe, but I had to shatter what I'd become 06:02.164 --> 06:20.325 [SPEAKER_00]: And so this idea of control, obviously a very powerful part of anorexiate, and needing disorders in general, can you talk about the expectation of what you're going to get by being controlled as opposed to the transition to like you were describing that feeling being controlled. 06:20.835 --> 06:26.617 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, it really starts out with this mindset of, no, I'm being healthy. 06:26.677 --> 06:30.378 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the way it works in Anarexia, is I think a lot of people have no idea that they have it. 06:30.478 --> 06:31.258 [SPEAKER_01]: I certainly didn't. 06:31.778 --> 06:38.780 [SPEAKER_01]: And so when people would like express a little bit of concern, like it was always like, no, no, no, I'm just, I'm just being healthy. 06:38.880 --> 06:40.380 [SPEAKER_01]: I just really like working out. 06:40.500 --> 06:43.841 [SPEAKER_01]: I just really like, you know, and I genuinely believed that. 06:43.941 --> 06:46.482 [SPEAKER_01]: And these all seemed like really good things in my life. 06:47.062 --> 07:00.148 [SPEAKER_01]: But then when you literally, when your self-esteem is based upon numbers on a scale, suddenly it's not about me wanting to have an ideal like healthy body weight for my, you know, my state. 07:00.288 --> 07:05.030 [SPEAKER_01]: It's about, oh my gosh, those numbers control how I feel about myself. 07:05.390 --> 07:12.153 [SPEAKER_01]: Same with calories, like instead of it being like, oh, I like to control my diet and manage it, make sure that I'm in a good place with my help. 07:12.633 --> 07:15.435 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, no, those calories of stupid numbers. 07:16.255 --> 07:18.156 [SPEAKER_01]: control the thoughts of my brain. 07:18.276 --> 07:26.559 [SPEAKER_01]: And like I remember literally going out with friends to eat at a restaurant, which eventually stopped, you know, as I just couldn't handle it anymore. 07:26.599 --> 07:30.801 [SPEAKER_01]: Like a lot of anything that revolved around food, just left my life. 07:30.941 --> 07:33.642 [SPEAKER_01]: Talk about losing control and it controlling you. 07:34.322 --> 07:37.463 [SPEAKER_01]: But I remember when I did go out to eat on like a date or with friends. 07:38.044 --> 07:42.685 [SPEAKER_01]: This was about the time that they started to put the calories next to food in restaurant menus. 07:43.146 --> 07:43.406 [SPEAKER_01]: And I 07:44.086 --> 08:07.571 [SPEAKER_01]: couldn't focus on the conversations I was having with my friends or on a date because I was doing math in my head of oh my gosh like the only like there's nothing on this menu that I can eat that won't put me over my calorie intake for the day and that means I'm gonna have to I could get in a run tonight when I go home or I could probably run in the morning a second time tomorrow to make up for these calories to then you know so it's like 08:08.311 --> 08:17.456 [SPEAKER_01]: how can you not be controlled by something that's like taking over your thoughts and then to be present was absolutely impossible in any scenario of life? 08:17.897 --> 08:22.799 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's just one of the examples of like, yeah, I felt like, no, this is me taking charge of my help. 08:22.880 --> 08:28.583 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, no, I'm absolutely at the mercy of these thoughts that have overwhelmed my brain. 08:29.605 --> 08:38.853 [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of the hallmarks, in fact some might argue the main hallmark of an eating disorder is the centrality, eating shape and weight to self-concept. 08:39.173 --> 08:52.124 [SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting because it can often start with something that feels like a healthy thought, well if I'm in better control or I'm eating healthier or I'm exercising, then I will 08:53.408 --> 09:10.350 [SPEAKER_00]: do

better at school, or I will have more energy for to do things that I want, or our friendships, or whatever, which in and of itself is not necessarily that problematic of a thought, but then at some point what winds up happening is that that's no longer a mechanism to those things. 09:10.971 --> 09:11.251 [SPEAKER_00]: It's... 09:12.172 --> 09:14.914 [SPEAKER_00]: the weight itself, the number on the scale. 09:15.715 --> 09:22.439 [SPEAKER_00]: The color is and all of a sudden you look back and you realize like I'm not thinking about my school or my work at all. 09:22.519 --> 09:24.440 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not thinking about my friends at all. 09:24.581 --> 09:26.902 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not thinking about my health at all. 09:27.062 --> 09:33.767 [SPEAKER_00]: I've just started focusing on those ideas that used to be mechanisms and now they're the end in and of themselves. 09:34.195 --> 09:55.367 [SPEAKER_01]: It really is interesting how like I think at the base of it all we just we all want to be loved you know we all want to connect with other people and I think there was like a part of me that felt like if I am really like you know beautiful which in my mind meant thin I'm very thin that something I can control like you know okay so if I'm super thin and beautiful 09:56.027 --> 10:22.605 [SPEAKER_01]: I will have more love and I will have more connection with people like I think that's like maybe part of the base of why like I started down this rabbit hole and yet exactly like you're saying it's funny how it completely became the opposite I got so focused on the calories and the hiding it and the you know the lifestyle the amount of energy it takes to like control that lifestyle or like manage it made it so I lost all my friends. 10:23.345 --> 10:33.227 [SPEAKER_01]: I lost all, like, even my sister, she was my roommate at the time, our relationship for several years was destroyed by this, because I became the shell of a human that wasn't fun anymore. 10:33.587 --> 10:35.628 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't have any energy, I was severely depressed. 10:35.948 --> 10:38.788 [SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't focus on anybody else, but myself. 10:39.148 --> 10:43.589 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it doesn't mean to be, but it's a very selfish disease, because you get consumed. 10:43.629 --> 10:48.750 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, like, asking her how her date went, just, like, wasn't even in my capacity in my brain. 10:48.810 --> 10:50.371 [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, like, I ended up pushing 10:52.451 --> 10:57.413 [SPEAKER_01]: because I got so focused on the thing that I thought would bring me love that I lost all the love in my life for a time. 10:57.473 --> 10:59.494 [SPEAKER_01]: It's really interesting how backwards it is. 10:59.675 --> 11:03.436 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, and it really is a disease because you can't think clearly. 11:03.456 --> 11:10.960 [SPEAKER_01]: It kind of is like this parasite that takes over your brain and it takes a huge, like, snap wake up call to be like,

I need help. 11:10.980 --> 11:20.845 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and one of the things that I find to be very time subtle and challenging, especially about Xia is that 11:21.855 --> 11:32.245 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's in a cultural context and one of the cultural context is that we encourage people to work hard, focused and be very successful at what they do. 11:32.966 --> 11:40.012 [SPEAKER_00]: And so one of the things that's very interesting is that parallels you have this career as a musician, as a performer, as a song. 11:40.758 --> 11:46.201 [SPEAKER_00]: that required to have hours and hours of time, diligence. 11:46.581 --> 11:55.026 [SPEAKER_00]: At times, probably, when you might have want to go out, do something, you're like, nope, I got to practice and focus. 11:55.486 --> 11:57.087 [SPEAKER_00]: And all of that is encouraged. 11:57.527 --> 12:00.228 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, look at the amazing things that you've done. 12:00.829 --> 12:08.253 [SPEAKER_00]: And yet, a lot of times, we're in the context of an eating disorder, we're applying that same logic in the sense of, 12:11.014 --> 12:29.915 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's how I do important goals and I just have to keep pushing and I have to push everything away And sometimes it's I think it's very confusing when people say to us, well, this goal is okay and this goal is not up until the very end, especially with anterexia because everyone encourages someone that rexia 12:30.335 --> 12:32.116 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, you look so great, you look so thin. 12:32.136 --> 12:37.718 [SPEAKER_00]: You would have only a set of very, very, very, very end where someone gets to a really, really healthy point. 12:37.758 --> 12:39.238 [SPEAKER_00]: People are saying, hey, it's a little bit too much. 12:39.258 --> 12:43.080 [SPEAKER_00]: You're sort of thinking like, in every area of my life, you've been encouraging me to work hard. 12:43.340 --> 12:44.660 [SPEAKER_00]: You've been encouraging me on this. 12:45.000 --> 12:47.161 [SPEAKER_00]: And now you're all of a sudden against it. 12:47.281 --> 12:52.923 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's very confusing for people who have the eating disorder to listen to people saying, hey, it's too much. 12:53.524 --> 12:57.285 [SPEAKER_00]: When we're often encouraged to be too much in all these other areas of our life. 12:57.677 --> 13:10.383 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think one of the hard things is when, like, you know, when I was in a rexic and I got to that point where people did start to be concerned, that was the greatest compliment anyone could give me was like, you look sick. 13:11.224 --> 13:12.525 [SPEAKER_01]: You look so thin. 13:12.565 --> 13:13.605 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm worried about you. 13:13.925 --> 13:16.086 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it was like, thank you. 13:16.106 --> 13:22.750 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they didn't meet it as a compliment, but I've, um, it is an interesting mindset that you're like, yeah, this is what I've worked really 13:27.672 --> 13:30.494 [SPEAKER_01]: I never come comment on anybody's way. 13:30.574 --> 13:44.082 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that that is, you know, expressing concern for someone is something, but like, I would never, ever comment concern through talking about your weight or the way you look or a compliment saying you look amazing. 13:44.122 --> 13:44.942 [SPEAKER_01]: What have you been doing? 13:45.022 --> 13:54.048 [SPEAKER_01]: Because you just never know what someone has been doing in order to look the way they're looking and what that comment even means is that a huge compliment that you're like you look sick. 13:54.588 --> 14:06.332 [SPEAKER_01]: or if you say, wow, you look amazing, it could be that someone is so depressed that they haven't been eating and they've, like, entered this really unhealthy lifestyle that is now looking great, you know, on them. 14:06.872 --> 14:10.434 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I just don't think I read this amazing book called more than a body. 14:11.014 --> 14:12.674 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think everyone should read it. 14:13.115 --> 14:13.655 [SPEAKER_01]: It's about. 14:14.515 --> 14:18.619 [SPEAKER_01]: the way society has kind of programmed our brains on a very unhealthy way. 14:19.780 --> 14:20.381 [SPEAKER_01]: It's amazing. 14:20.741 --> 14:26.627 [SPEAKER_01]: And in that, they talk about the power of commenting on people's appearance or their weight and that you just shouldn't. 14:26.947 --> 14:28.208 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's never any of your business. 14:28.228 --> 14:30.350 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a million other things you could talk about. 14:30.370 --> 14:31.571 [SPEAKER_01]: You could say someone's glowing. 14:31.591 --> 14:32.072 [SPEAKER_01]: You can say, 14:32.572 --> 14:53.736 [SPEAKER_01]: that you look like vibrant right now or like not even look like you feel vibrant like like I love just your energy right now like there's a million things you can comment on if you want to say something nice to someone I just think it's pretty important to steer away from commenting on somebody's looks because you just never know what they've done to get there 14:54.497 --> 15:16.802 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that becomes very complicated, romantic relationships because if someone is attracted to you and they may not say a word, they just may be feeling attracted, acting attracted and obviously people become intimate and to some degree, it's almost like without realizing it, they're validating everything that someone's been doing that's unhealthy. 15:17.402 --> 15:33.682 [SPEAKER_00]: to get them to the point and they may be even following all those rules like say I'm not you know I'm not commenting on way you know I kind of know not to do that but their mere interest and that's one of the things that can be very complicated with some an eating disorder is that if you're romantically interested 15:34.503 --> 15:45.009 [SPEAKER_00]: in that person, while they're in the midst of eating disorder, whether intentionally or not, it can be taken

as you're validating the eating disorder, even though you may have no idea what's going on. 15:45.029 --> 15:47.791 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's a very complicated for everybody involved. 15:47.811 --> 15:48.131 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 15:49.432 --> 15:56.376 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, eating disorders are so tough because like with like it's an addiction, I think that's the easiest way to equate it to like something. 15:56.416 --> 15:58.077 [SPEAKER_01]: It's an addiction to a mindset. 15:58.968 --> 15:59.749 [SPEAKER_01]: related to food. 15:59.849 --> 16:07.357 [SPEAKER_01]: And unlike, you know, if you're an alcoholic, you can avoid most situations if you want that have alcohol in them. 16:07.457 --> 16:10.501 [SPEAKER_01]: Or when you do enter a situation, you know that you're going into the bar. 16:10.681 --> 16:11.922 [SPEAKER_01]: And like, I'm going to be on. 16:11.942 --> 16:13.124 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to have my friend with me. 16:13.164 --> 16:16.007 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, as my like, you know, that's going to keep me accountable. 16:16.027 --> 16:16.908 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, whatever it is, you can 16:18.089 --> 16:27.220 [SPEAKER_01]: But eating disorders, the addiction is with the mindset you have about your very own body that travels with you every step of the way through life. 16:27.380 --> 16:32.426 [SPEAKER_01]: It is with food, which comes up multiple times a day for the rest of your life. 16:32.706 --> 16:35.089 [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's very complicated. 16:35.129 --> 16:37.011 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that I'm so. 16:37.852 --> 16:41.934 [SPEAKER_01]: grateful for the work I've done because it's not something that ever goes away. 16:42.095 --> 16:46.217 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not something that I'll never, I'll ever just be like, that's gone for my life. 16:46.998 --> 16:50.780 [SPEAKER_01]: I am so used to the mindset now that I know how to manage it. 16:50.880 --> 16:55.743 [SPEAKER_01]: And we have a pretty healthy, I say that with air quotes, it's a very unhealthy, like... 16:56.303 --> 17:01.686 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, way of being, but yet, I have a very healthy relationship with my eating disorder thoughts now. 17:01.706 --> 17:05.828 [SPEAKER_01]: I understand them and I'm able to be like, hey, you're not being logical, get out of here. 17:05.868 --> 17:08.230 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't accept your judgments of me right now. 17:08.270 --> 17:14.293 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm able to really talk to them and understand they're like, you don't govern the way I feel about myself anymore. 17:14.673 --> 17:16.514 [SPEAKER_01]: And when they start to try, that's the thing. 17:16.594 --> 17:19.256 [SPEAKER_01]: I tell them, like, get out of here, like, you do not get to tell me. 17:20.116 --> 17:37.993 [SPEAKER_01]: my value based on this meal or based on what my body's like right now because I've just am a little bit off my game right now and that's okay I'm allowed to be you know so I really have this relationship where I'm okay like having these these dialogues and putting them in their place and checking reality often um 17:40.167 --> 17:48.690 [SPEAKER_01]: And I will say also in relationships though, it's important for me to like talk to my partner about these things and letting them know, you know what? 17:48.830 --> 17:51.411 [SPEAKER_01]: I know that you're trying to be so complimentary when you say that. 17:51.911 --> 17:57.894 [SPEAKER_01]: But that actually like, I don't need you to call me like small and like petite and tiny. 17:58.134 --> 18:03.696 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I know you're thinking that I wanna hear that, like that you want that I wanna hear how like thin I am. 18:03.716 --> 18:06.057 [SPEAKER_01]: But like actually anything that has the power to, 18:06.797 --> 18:11.141 [SPEAKER_01]: make you feel good also as the power to make you feel bad if that goes away. 18:11.641 --> 18:17.186 [SPEAKER_01]: And so being praised for being like tiny and fit and thin isn't the best thing for me. 18:17.266 --> 18:23.451 [SPEAKER_01]: And so anyways, just really delicately letting my boyfriend know that like, I'd prefer you not say that, you know? 18:24.192 --> 18:24.772 [SPEAKER_01]: That's fine. 18:24.852 --> 18:37.019 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I think giving those reality checks to yourself, giving them to your family, I remember training, I say training, but like telling my mom, certain things that were not helpful when I was in trying to recover. 18:37.279 --> 18:42.302 [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember sitting down with them being like, mom, when you tell me, I look really good in my mind. 18:42.582 --> 18:44.143 [SPEAKER_01]: That says, I've gotten fat. 18:45.367 --> 18:50.151 [SPEAKER_01]: I know that doesn't make sense, but that's what it means to me because I know you've wanted me to gain weight. 18:50.171 --> 18:51.652 [SPEAKER_01]: I know that you think I'm too thin. 18:51.912 --> 18:57.477 [SPEAKER_01]: And so when you say, please, you look really good in my mind, I'm like, great, I'm fat. 18:57.897 --> 19:03.382 [SPEAKER_01]: And I even hate saying those words, but back then, that's what I would tell people, I would help people understand. 19:03.422 --> 19:11.548 [SPEAKER_01]: The ones that were close to me and that could take that kind of knowledge, like you don't say that to the random guy at the store, be like, by the way, sir, but those relationships 19:13.810 --> 19:20.794 [SPEAKER_01]: And at our safe place, I think it's really important to have those conversations to let them know what X means when they say it to you in your brain. 19:20.974 --> 19:34.480 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I want to try to put together a couple of the things that you said, because I really liked the idea of having a conversation with your thoughts and govern, you know, govern me, that language. 19:34.961 --> 19:37.942 [SPEAKER_00]: Because I think that one of the things that you said that I think is so important 19:40.278 --> 19:44.342 [SPEAKER_00]: unlike Diction is a 24-7 thought process.

19:45.583 --> 19:49.467 [SPEAKER_00]: One does not become eating disorder presence of food. 19:49.888 --> 19:53.351 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not outside of the presence of food or when looking at me. 19:54.042 --> 19:55.784 [SPEAKER_00]: you know, on the scale, it's always. 19:56.525 --> 20:06.517 [SPEAKER_00]: And as you said, it continues for throughout one's life, even though intensity might be different, relationship with it might be different. 20:07.178 --> 20:11.003 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's something that is inadvertently or not, you know, 20:11.303 --> 20:20.409 [SPEAKER_00]: not so much validated by other people, and so this concept of of it being governed, it would kind of make sense, you're like, well, I'm thinking about it all the time. 20:20.690 --> 20:21.710 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought about it my whole life. 20:22.191 --> 20:26.874 [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone else seems to be thinking about it and commenting freely and pretty regularly. 20:28.135 --> 20:29.255 [SPEAKER_00]: Why shouldn't this govern me? 20:30.154 --> 20:31.535 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's like, I believe it. 20:32.115 --> 20:32.956 [SPEAKER_00]: I've always believed it. 20:33.496 --> 20:34.517 [SPEAKER_00]: You all seem to believe it. 20:35.237 --> 20:42.281 [SPEAKER_00]: And that I wanna talk about getting to that place where you say, I see it, I get it. 20:42.962 --> 20:45.623 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm gonna listen to it as part of the conversation. 20:46.384 --> 20:48.565 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna hear it as part of the conversation. 20:48.605 --> 20:51.867 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I get that this is a part of me, but you're not in charge. 20:52.308 --> 20:55.930 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you talk about just how you got to that place? 20:55.950 --> 20:57.591 [SPEAKER_00]: Because I think that's really an important place 21:00.701 --> 21:18.025 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it all started, I read a book called Life Without Ed when I was kind of beginning this whole journey and I was just fascinated because I'd never, I'd never had like studied much about mental health prior to having this huge, you know, moment in my life with that almost broke me. 21:18.585 --> 21:25.067 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I was fascinated by this book because this woman talks about how she separates herself from her eating disorder. 21:25.107 --> 21:25.707 [SPEAKER_01]: She named it. 21:25.727 --> 21:26.907 [SPEAKER_01]: She called it Ed and I was like, 21:30.208 --> 21:32.910 [SPEAKER_01]: And she talks about how she, like, would have conversations with it. 21:32.931 --> 21:43.320 [SPEAKER_01]: She even would like pull up a chair and empty chair and she would tell the eating disorder that it was lying to her and then the thoughts it would come in, she would like separate her thoughts from the eating disorder. 21:44.020 --> 21:55.491 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think with mental health in whatever shape you are dealing with it in, whether it's anxiety or depression or mental health, it's so important to realize that these thoughts, well, one,

we are not our thoughts. 21:56.151 --> 22:16.579 [SPEAKER_01]: So often we think we are our thoughts, but I think when you can separate yourself of the conscious mind of what you want to believe, what you are choosing to actively say, this is what I have learned, this is what I believe, this is who I want to be, that's a different, that's way closer to self, then these like kind of thoughts that have been learned and that most of 22:16.999 --> 22:18.961 [SPEAKER_01]: The time have come from outside of yourself. 22:18.981 --> 22:20.523 [SPEAKER_01]: They've come from influences throughout your life. 22:20.543 --> 22:21.884 [SPEAKER_01]: They've come through prep culture. 22:22.144 --> 22:22.805 [SPEAKER_01]: They're media. 22:22.825 --> 22:24.487 [SPEAKER_01]: They're things you see around you. 22:24.567 --> 22:27.850 [SPEAKER_01]: And those are the voices that fill your head so often. 22:27.890 --> 22:29.251 [SPEAKER_01]: And they're not actually yours. 22:29.832 --> 22:33.816 [SPEAKER_01]: And so being able to separate my thoughts of who I wanted to be. 22:34.156 --> 22:38.521 [SPEAKER_01]: And who I believed myself to be when I really thought about my dreams, my goals. 22:39.690 --> 22:41.111 [SPEAKER_01]: and then there was the eating disorder side. 22:41.491 --> 22:43.732 [SPEAKER_01]: Separating the two was like life changing for me. 22:44.093 --> 22:45.653 [SPEAKER_01]: And I do it now with anxiety. 22:45.693 --> 22:46.674 [SPEAKER_01]: I do it with depression. 22:46.714 --> 22:51.937 [SPEAKER_01]: I do it with, you know, anytime these little things come and have been flow through my life, I'm able to just separate myself from them. 22:52.597 --> 22:55.939 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, the conversations were really hard in the beginning. 22:56.299 --> 23:05.985 [SPEAKER_01]: I can remember, like when I knew I was alone, like none of my roommates were home, you know, which is rare when you live with five other girls in college and share a small apartment. 23:06.365 --> 23:16.615 [SPEAKER_01]: But those moments when I was like, I'm home alone right now, I would sometimes take an exercise to look at myself in the mirror and say the things that I did not believe anymore. 23:16.895 --> 23:18.177 [SPEAKER_01]: Like you do have worth. 23:19.057 --> 23:19.898 [SPEAKER_01]: You are enough. 23:20.962 --> 23:22.143 [SPEAKER_01]: I am not my body. 23:22.664 --> 23:25.567 [SPEAKER_01]: That scale does not determine how I feel about myself. 23:25.667 --> 23:36.477 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, just like these new thoughts, and I remember like not believing them at all, you know, and my brain would categorize them as a lie and like put them in the life folder of the brain. 23:36.818 --> 23:40.742 [SPEAKER_01]: But eventually, if you say something enough and like look into your eyes as you say it, 23:41.222 --> 23:42.863 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, maybe it's not a lie. 23:42.943 --> 23:47.525 [SPEAKER_01]: Your brain starts to think, maybe this is real, maybe she,

maybe we actually do believe this. 23:47.705 --> 23:51.346 [SPEAKER_01]: And so like these, what felt like lies, started to become possibilities. 23:51.366 --> 23:55.568 [SPEAKER_01]: And then they started to slowly become truths and filling yourself with like the things you want to believe in. 23:55.628 --> 23:57.549 [SPEAKER_01]: But it was painful at beginning. 23:57.569 --> 24:02.711 [SPEAKER_01]: I remember like literally two streaming down my faces, I would say this, because I just was like, this is, I don't believe it. 24:04.192 --> 24:10.675 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, separating myself from the negative thoughts and consciously focusing more on the positive 24:11.455 --> 24:29.272 [SPEAKER_01]: Game changing for me and now it's a very natural like I know exactly who you are when you start to come in I know that's Ed I know that it's telling me these things about myself and it really is difficult to sometimes I call a look in the mirror and be like Have I kind of let myself go a little bit or is that Ed talking like I can't tell sometimes? 24:29.312 --> 24:35.218 [SPEAKER_01]: You know like when I was especially as I'm approaching a tour and I want to look really great from about film music video and I want to be super fit. 24:35.738 --> 24:36.038 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like 24:36.979 --> 25:02.996 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that ad or is that me or am I do I need to probably hit the gym a little harder or am I fine like it's really hard to tell and I just have to learn to let go a lot a lot and say hey it's okay regardless of who it's from I love my body I love myself and if I want to work a little harder sure I can work a little harder but doesn't the ad thoughts or the ones that say you're worthless because the way you look or the way you weigh or any of that 25:03.678 --> 25:14.271 [SPEAKER_00]: can we break that down a little bit because I think, at least from my perspective, going back to the idea of being in a culture of people who want to work to achieve things. 25:14.692 --> 25:14.892 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 25:15.693 --> 25:18.136 [SPEAKER_00]: And you can tell me if you feel you disagree with this. 25:18.156 --> 25:22.442 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like oftentimes, and people get treatment for eating disorders. 25:23.968 --> 25:31.257 [SPEAKER_00]: There's almost a bias, it's like an anti, what the term is like anything having to do with what you just said. 25:31.678 --> 25:34.161 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, I'm going on this tour or look a certain. 25:35.372 --> 25:42.315 [SPEAKER_00]: you know, I feel like I should be a little bit healthier, get swept up and you like anything is as you say, Ed. 25:42.695 --> 25:48.957 [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things I think that does is it creates a situation where some people are kind of like a wait a minute. 25:49.897 --> 25:56.380 [SPEAKER_00]: It's almost a false dichotomy to some degree where it's like I care nothing about it or I don't care at all about. 25:56.920 --> 25:58.381 [SPEAKER_00]: And for people who are used to 25:59.421 --> 26:03.024 [SPEAKER_00]: working hard and doing things for their life, that's going to be very difficult. 26:03.284 --> 26:18.176 [SPEAKER_00]: And this thing that you're talking about is when you have a thought, and maybe we can if we could talk a little bit more about it, it's like, how do you scream for saying, well, I'm having a thought that's dying of the same like, an eating disorder thought could be you need to exercise, right? 26:18.296 --> 26:27.304 [SPEAKER_00]: A non-eating disorder thought could be, maybe we could say the need is, I don't know, maybe that's one way of thinking about like, then it is the big, it's like, oh, maybe you'd like to exercise. 26:28.079 --> 26:28.859 [SPEAKER_00]: or something like that. 26:28.879 --> 26:38.603 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm kind of curious just like breaking down how do you go from being like, I care so much that the only thing not to the place where you're like, I don't care about it at all. 26:38.963 --> 26:42.984 [SPEAKER_00]: And land in that place where I care enough that it feels healthy. 26:44.025 --> 26:44.345 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 26:44.645 --> 26:46.686 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's that's the hard part. 26:47.006 --> 26:50.087 [SPEAKER_01]: The hard part is learning that it's okay to want to be. 26:51.248 --> 26:55.149 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's okay to want to be fit, you know, like that's not a bad thing. 26:55.549 --> 27:04.531 [SPEAKER_01]: It gets taken to extremes and that's, and I think the biggest thing for me is when I notice that it's a controlling thought versus kind of what you're saying. 27:04.571 --> 27:06.052 [SPEAKER_01]: I need to work out or you should. 27:06.312 --> 27:08.813 [SPEAKER_01]: Should is not a good word in my vocabulary. 27:09.113 --> 27:13.974 [SPEAKER_01]: Like anytime you should, there's probably a shame, whether you know, whatever. 27:14.674 --> 27:15.554 [SPEAKER_01]: context we're talking about it. 27:15.574 --> 27:17.395 [SPEAKER_01]: And if it's like a religious thing, I should do this. 27:17.435 --> 27:24.937 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh, that's probably some shame talking or if it's a body image thing, that's feeling like you are not good enough unless you do that. 27:25.017 --> 27:27.157 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think for me, that's the biggest thing. 27:27.177 --> 27:29.998 [SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing wrong with being like, I'm about to go on tour. 27:30.538 --> 27:33.099 [SPEAKER_01]: And like, I actually do need to be fit. 27:33.439 --> 27:38.220 [SPEAKER_01]: I need to be able to do an entire show and not get, you know, not pass out. 27:38.681 --> 27:39.801 [SPEAKER_01]: I need to be strong enough 27:43.882 --> 27:44.742 [SPEAKER_01]: All these different thoughts. 27:44.982 --> 27:52.625 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, there's nothing wrong with, I don't think there's anything wrong with me saying, I want to feel good in my costume up on stage. 27:52.905 --> 27:56.546 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I want to feel like I can be confident

wearing that. 27:56.646 --> 28:00.207 [SPEAKER_01]: And I wish I was a little farther along than any shape or form. 28:00.527 --> 28:01.648 [SPEAKER_01]: I could still feel confident. 28:02.028 --> 28:04.249 [SPEAKER_01]: But I obviously, I still have work to do. 28:04.269 --> 28:05.189 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think we all do. 28:05.209 --> 28:10.691 [SPEAKER_01]: We live in a society like you said that praises a certain level of like fitness. 28:12.091 --> 28:35.987 [SPEAKER_01]: So, I think that anytime there is my self-worth gets attached to it, though, like I'm not enough unless I am looking a certain way or I'm not enough unless I'm a certain shape or I'm not enough, you know, that's when I think it gets really dangerous and especially when it's not even about being not enough, but the thoughts become your worthless, like, without this, like, that's all you have. 28:36.428 --> 28:39.810 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, and I, yeah, anyways, so that's, that's what I'll say to start it off. 28:40.353 --> 28:54.384 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just building on that thing, I try with myself, try with people I work with, and I'm kind of curious to think about this, is like, if self-concept for some of the needing disorder is focused on one thing, right? 28:54.785 --> 29:03.892 [SPEAKER_00]: The presumption is that, well, the issue here is that you focus on weight, shape, calories, exercise, to the exclusion of everything else, right? 29:04.352 --> 29:04.452 [SPEAKER_00]: And 29:05.503 --> 29:09.546 [SPEAKER_00]: the presumptions that there should be a bunch of other things, or there could be a bunch of other things. 29:09.606 --> 29:13.949 [SPEAKER_00]: Friends, family, hobbies, passions, whatever it might be. 29:14.630 --> 29:27.099 [SPEAKER_00]: And so one of the things that I try to do, try to think to myself, if I'm thinking something or doing something, is I say, okay, so this is how this thought will function, or this behavioral function, in this context. 29:28.000 --> 29:30.722 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I also have to ask, but how will it function in all the other? 29:31.493 --> 29:33.915 [SPEAKER_00]: context, like all the other parts of myself concept. 29:33.975 --> 29:52.692 [SPEAKER_00]: So for example, like I could say, listen, I could work out for three hours and in theory and not, you know, eat very little food and in the context of how I look, that might get me that might actually get me there if I do some kind of consistent basis. 29:53.613 --> 29:57.275 [SPEAKER_00]: But I have to look at how's that can affect the other areas of my life. 29:57.336 --> 30:01.718 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, what about my work, what about my family, why if we're about things, I'm interested in it. 30:02.239 --> 30:04.660 [SPEAKER_00]: And I sort of try to use that as a balance. 30:05.021 --> 30:09.604 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, because I think one of the biggest things about the eating disorder is that's completely out of balance. 30:10.244 --> 30:13.306 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I don't know,

how's that sound to you? 30:13.627 --> 30:14.907 [SPEAKER_00]: That's like a way of knowing. 30:14.927 --> 30:15.308 [SPEAKER_01]: No, that's... 30:16.195 --> 30:27.481 [SPEAKER_01]: very clear, and I think that was my breaking point realizing I need help, and it's worth it to to whatever it takes to get help. 30:27.561 --> 30:37.447 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and it was a moment when I was roommates with my sister in college, I was also really good friends once upon a time with all the other girls that were our roommate. 30:37.947 --> 30:43.088 [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember one day hearing them all in the other room laughing and giggling about something. 30:43.108 --> 30:44.369 [SPEAKER_01]: They were laughing so hard. 30:44.789 --> 30:46.349 [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember I was just laying on my bed. 30:46.369 --> 30:54.771 [SPEAKER_01]: I was so depressed and I couldn't even muster the emotional energy to get up and go into the other room and be like, what's going on? 30:55.231 --> 30:57.132 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I normally would, you know, but... 30:58.012 --> 30:59.813 [SPEAKER_01]: I also was like, I don't think I can fake. 30:59.873 --> 31:01.434 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I can even laugh right now. 31:01.574 --> 31:06.017 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so depressed and exhausted from lack of nourishment. 31:06.197 --> 31:13.201 [SPEAKER_01]: And as I lay on my bed, my sister comes trodding into the room and she bounced on her bed and she started doing her homework and she didn't even... 31:14.380 --> 31:19.783 [SPEAKER_01]: look at me or didn't even, and I just remember wishing so badly like I wish she would tell me what was so funny. 31:20.463 --> 31:28.827 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I wish I could be a part of this, and then all of a sudden as I like stared at her, um, the realization hit me that like, I don't even know her anymore. 31:28.967 --> 31:31.008 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I have no idea what's going on in her life. 31:31.568 --> 31:39.692 [SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea what's going on in their lives, and it just was so apparent that like, and I didn't even know I didn't need to sort of yet, but I knew that I had sacrificed 31:43.200 --> 31:45.421 [SPEAKER_01]: to be where I was, whatever it was. 31:45.622 --> 31:50.825 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just was like, I don't know what's wrong with me, but I'm this is not the person I used to be. 31:51.325 --> 31:55.367 [SPEAKER_01]: Why don't I, why is everything in my life, like not matter? 31:55.387 --> 32:02.072 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not happy, like, and so then when I realized I'm eating disorder, I literally, that's what I would remind myself of all the time when I started to see. 32:02.892 --> 32:25.881 [SPEAKER_01]: the numbers on the scale go up it was like heartbreaking like in the weirdest way like literally i would cry every time i would gain a pound um as stupid as that sounds but i just remind myself that like i want to be happy again i want to connect with people again and that is worth it because i had literally sacrificed my passion my relationships my schooling wasn't doing well like because like i had a 32:26.581 --> 32:29.622 [SPEAKER_01]: more than a full-time job, which was keeping this disease alive. 32:30.082 --> 32:40.306 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's what it came down to to me, and at any time that like I have been even tempted to like make bad choices to like steer back that way. 32:40.426 --> 32:44.727 [SPEAKER_01]: I remember that moment, and I'm like, I don't care what happens to my physical body. 32:44.807 --> 32:46.808 [SPEAKER_01]: I will never let my mind get back there. 32:47.328 --> 32:50.810 [SPEAKER_01]: because you have to sacrifice everything to keep it alive. 32:50.950 --> 32:58.355 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I think that all the time of like, you know, I recently had, and I've talked about this a lot lately, and this doesn't even have to do with eating disorders. 32:58.375 --> 33:05.780 [SPEAKER_01]: It just has to do with like a appearance on my, you know, TikTok, this Christmas season, this past season. 33:07.041 --> 33:13.203 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why, but tons of haters were just talking about how old I look, and you know, just really attacking my appearance. 33:13.883 --> 33:17.444 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was like lots of comments like this. 33:17.584 --> 33:21.966 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just was like, shook and like kind of taking back, I'm like, wait, why are they all talking about how old I look? 33:21.986 --> 33:22.726 [SPEAKER_01]: Am I getting old? 33:23.835 --> 33:24.656 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was one. 33:25.156 --> 33:29.440 [SPEAKER_01]: First of all, I was shocked at how much I cared and how much it hurt. 33:29.520 --> 33:37.647 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, anytime something like grabs you like that, whether it's like a weight issue or like, you're like, wait, why does this hurt so bad? 33:37.667 --> 33:40.249 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh my gosh, because I'm afraid of getting old. 33:40.650 --> 33:42.992 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that took a reset where I was like, I can either. 33:43.552 --> 33:44.653 [SPEAKER_01]: I have options here. 33:44.973 --> 33:48.476 [SPEAKER_01]: I could spend a bunch of money on plastic surgery and lasers. 33:48.797 --> 33:57.725 [SPEAKER_01]: And I can do that religiously and burn my face by lasers like every other month to try to stay young and get tucks and do threading to take these wrinkles out. 33:58.466 --> 33:59.366 [SPEAKER_01]: There's options. 34:00.347 --> 34:04.430 [SPEAKER_01]: or I can accept that like, I'm aging, but that's okay. 34:04.730 --> 34:08.992 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and so it's like, what sacrifice would it take in order to do this thing? 34:09.032 --> 34:10.613 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, I don't want to do that. 34:11.153 --> 34:23.521 [SPEAKER_01]: I would actually, I don't want to put that much attention into my face because I know that the same way I once planted time puts so much attention into my body, what you put time into, what you invest in in your life,

what you think about. 34:24.321 --> 34:26.582 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what you care about and that's what you're going to grow. 34:26.702 --> 34:34.784 [SPEAKER_01]: And so if I spend all this attention and time and thoughts on my face, I will take real estate from somewhere else in my life. 34:35.304 --> 34:36.764 [SPEAKER_01]: It will become what I think about. 34:36.884 --> 34:38.204 [SPEAKER_01]: It will become my value. 34:38.524 --> 34:44.466 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just remember being like, no, the better choice is I'm going to continuously, whenever I look in the mirror and I'm like, yeah, they're right. 34:44.506 --> 34:45.126 [SPEAKER_01]: I am getting old. 34:45.526 --> 34:47.287 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to change the conversation, too. 34:47.667 --> 34:48.767 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, you're getting older. 34:49.247 --> 34:53.788 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's okay because you are so much more than your body, you're so much more than your face. 34:53.848 --> 35:00.010 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I have passions, I have talents, I have friends, I have, I have like, I like to do charitable things. 35:00.070 --> 35:02.030 [SPEAKER_01]: I like to play with my dog. 35:02.110 --> 35:11.033 [SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, like, what you were saying, there are so many other things in life and reminding myself consistently that my looks are actually the least interesting thing about me. 35:12.023 --> 35:23.332 [SPEAKER_01]: is what keeps me from going down these rabbit holes of back into eating disorder or the, you know, the cosmetic surgeries or any of these things that can sometimes feel so like, oh, that would be really nice. 35:23.813 --> 35:24.153 [SPEAKER_01]: But no. 35:25.053 --> 35:36.423 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think one of the things that you said in terms of the conversation with our thoughts or in this case, or eating disorder, it's kind of like talking to a bully, which in the sense that 35:37.515 --> 35:45.282 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, if I do these things that you're telling me, you demand that I do right now, that you're trying to govern me, trying to control. 35:46.363 --> 35:47.304 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you going to leave me alone? 35:47.685 --> 35:48.485 [SPEAKER_00]: Am I going to be happy? 35:49.466 --> 35:57.193 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so in other words, if I get to the weight that you say, and I control my calories in the right way, exercise as much as you do, 35:58.060 --> 35:58.740 [SPEAKER_00]: are you going to stop? 35:59.481 --> 36:06.806 [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things I think people start to realize, like, no, because the eating source is going to wake up the next morning, be like, well, you got to do it all over again. 36:06.826 --> 36:08.027 [SPEAKER_00]: You got to do it all over again. 36:08.507 --> 36:17.733 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you ever stop, we're going to come right down into with all the shame, judgment, horrible feelings and depression. 36:18.314 --> 36:23.137 [SPEAKER_00]: And then that's when I think people start to realize it's like, it's not even like, 36:24.529 --> 36:25.029 [SPEAKER_00]: It can work. 36:25.049 --> 36:25.970 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no destination. 36:26.030 --> 36:27.631 [SPEAKER_01]: Like there's no finish life. 36:27.651 --> 36:28.652 [SPEAKER_00]: Because that's what makes it. 36:28.712 --> 36:32.074 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's what makes it dysfunctional, right? 36:32.094 --> 36:50.385 [SPEAKER_00]: Because listen, there as an example, music, you know, for some people spending hours and hours and hours a day, like playing music, despite the fact that, you know, people's hands, you know, people get arthritis or they get back problems or, you know, it takes away from other parts of their life. 36:50.966 --> 36:54.028 [SPEAKER_00]: But some people can say, listen, I... 36:55.627 --> 37:03.212 [SPEAKER_00]: I can think about and I can understand how this is something that is a part of a happy life for me. 37:03.433 --> 37:07.716 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to give and it's going to give some people, some people decide otherwise. 37:07.776 --> 37:18.083 [SPEAKER_00]: But you know, you can see that relationship and it's kind of like with the friend, it's like, oh, you're asking me if I give you money, okay, you have money, a bully just keeps asking you, so I'm going to take your money. 37:19.084 --> 37:19.944 [SPEAKER_00]: Push you in a locker. 37:20.025 --> 37:21.466 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to say horrible things to you. 37:21.906 --> 37:22.907 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's never going to stop. 37:25.434 --> 37:44.467 [SPEAKER_00]: you hit me now that it's over right like I let hit me you laughed at me it's like no it's like well tomorrow you could be the exact same thing and that's when you realize it's a dysfunctional as opposed to a functional system that like you said it's not building towards anything it's not it's there's no destination where you're going to win 37:45.526 --> 38:02.720 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what makes it, I think, maybe in that maybe the difference in thinking, even about what we were talking about, like the healthy versus unhealthy, you know, the healthy versus unhealthy concepts of thinking about eating shape and weight is like, well, if I think about and do it this way, is that going to lead me somewhere? 38:02.740 --> 38:06.703 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that going to lead me somewhere healthy versus no, this is this is bad. 38:06.998 --> 38:17.396 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and it's interesting to like, I like catching my eating disorder thoughts and being like, like, I totally caught you in a lie, just now you're not very good at your job. 38:17.997 --> 38:19.099 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know, like, 38:21.192 --> 38:28.755 [SPEAKER_01]: So many times I feel like we feel a certain way in our body and we attribute that to like health or weight or whatever. 38:28.775 --> 38:35.577 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like I feel, you know, and people will say I feel fat or then like when you try to like have a better mindset about you're like, oh, I feel bloated.

38:35.877 --> 38:38.018 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's the word I'm gonna put in my head, you know, you try to... 38:38.818 --> 38:57.745 [SPEAKER_01]: Soft in the blow a little bit, but it was, it's just really interesting, like I can think of times when I start a yoga class, you know, like I like to do core power yoga, it's hot and it's, you know, we have weights and stuff and there have been days where I, when I'm starting the yoga class, like there's all these mirrors and I'll just be like, oh, I do not feel good in my body right now, like I'm not loving what I'm seeing. 38:58.834 --> 39:11.399 [SPEAKER_01]: halfway through the class because my body is now active and because I'm using it as a tool and it's not like just this ornament to be looked at because I'm using the weights and I'm feeling strong and I'm like, wow, I went up to the 12 pounds today. 39:11.419 --> 39:12.240 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm proud of myself. 39:12.920 --> 39:21.764 [SPEAKER_01]: Suddenly, within 30 minutes, my body goes from being like, I'm not exactly happy with her to like, actually, like, I love my body. 39:21.804 --> 39:23.385 [SPEAKER_01]: Look how, like, look what she can do. 39:23.405 --> 39:23.465 [SPEAKER_01]: And 39:24.923 --> 39:26.785 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, it's like, oh, I just caught you in a lie. 39:26.825 --> 39:30.989 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, my body hasn't changed in the last 12 minutes or like 30 minutes. 39:31.009 --> 39:33.812 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, literally, it's because my mindset changed. 39:33.852 --> 39:44.704 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just, it's really interesting that I've never been more unsatisfied with my body than when I was at the height of my eating disorder because I was stuck in that momentum of like spinning down. 39:44.784 --> 39:45.625 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's no... 39:46.305 --> 39:56.218 [SPEAKER_01]: way that I could ever be small enough, like I was literally starving myself, and I was so unhappy with what I saw in the mirror, and I am vastly heavier than that now. 39:57.360 --> 40:09.490 [SPEAKER_01]: And like, and I'm very happy with my body, and it just, and you know, and I fluctuated through the years of being unhappy or happier or whatever, and it's never ever tied to the actual physicality of my body. 40:09.970 --> 40:12.312 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's when you realize like, this is all lie. 40:12.352 --> 40:19.518 [SPEAKER_01]: It's all in our brains because the times when I felt good about my body or bad about my body, literally my body probably looks very similar. 40:19.558 --> 40:20.779 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it doesn't change a ton. 40:20.979 --> 40:22.420 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm, I guess I'm lucky in that way, 40:23.901 --> 40:31.507 [SPEAKER_01]: whether it is or isn't changing, the point is that as it stayed pretty consistent, my brain has vastly accepted or not accepted it. 40:32.107 --> 40:35.310 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's when you're just like, this is all think it's all a lie. 40:35.450 --> 40:39.573 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I have to work on up here, not what is down here. 40:40.334 --> 40:43.916 [SPEAKER_01]: So now any time I'm starting to like not feel good about my body, I'm like, it's a mind thing. 40:43.956 --> 40:45.478 [SPEAKER_01]: I just know it's lying to me. 40:45.998 --> 40:48.360 [SPEAKER_01]: And I get to then choose like, so what are we going to do about it? 40:49.133 --> 40:58.095 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and so on that point, it's interesting because you bring up yoga, there's a lot of different parts of yoga that can prove to health. 40:58.535 --> 41:09.057 [SPEAKER_00]: So obviously the physical part, the breathing part often times people will talk about the sense of structure will give sentiment during the class. 41:09.477 --> 41:12.638 [SPEAKER_00]: But one of the things that people often talk about is the music. 41:13.546 --> 41:29.018 [SPEAKER_00]: And I use that as a clumsy and perhaps horrible transition to the last part of our episodes, which is we talked at the beginning of your music that represented mental health journey. 41:29.378 --> 41:30.619 [SPEAKER_00]: But for a lot of people, 41:32.647 --> 41:41.311 [SPEAKER_00]: The very phenomena that you were talking about, which is the idea of how do I catch myself in a lie, is often about just getting yourself out of that space. 41:41.471 --> 41:45.993 [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of times people turn to music to get the out of a space. 41:47.153 --> 41:51.535 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a reliable thing that will get me into a different headspace. 41:52.056 --> 41:55.017 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm just kind of curious for you what? 41:56.213 --> 42:11.193 [SPEAKER_00]: what music other people's music in this case that have you used as a way of coping or a way of gaining insight or something that brought you to shook loose some kind of concept that you hadn't thought of before. 42:11.723 --> 42:26.986 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think, I mean, I have a very diverse taste in music, depending on what I'm doing, but when I'm kind of queuing into mental health, I love, like, you know, I went through a phase where I was listening to a lot of N. Yeah, like about a year ago. 42:27.506 --> 42:34.867 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, are like soft like piano music, or like just kind of like mixes for meditation. 42:35.048 --> 42:36.928 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I've gotten really into breath work. 42:37.728 --> 42:54.846 [SPEAKER_01]: um, in the last three years and being able to kind of zone out, do some breath work to some calming music like and yeah, um, has really helped me like center myself and I've realized that like rather than pumping myself up most of the time like if I'm going to 42:55.647 --> 42:58.768 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, if I'm going to go to a networking event and I'm like, all right, I got to be super on. 42:58.788 --> 43:00.829 [SPEAKER_01]: I got to be pumped up here. 43:01.309 --> 43:03.890 [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, I'm usually enough pumped up myself. 43:04.030 --> 43:05.951 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I have enough like energy

in my body. 43:06.131 --> 43:08.332 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually need to calm down most of the time. 43:08.672 --> 43:18.296 [SPEAKER_01]: So like by listening in my car to like a calming piano track or like, I think one of my favorite tracks is I think it's called, um, I stand since Danny Elfman. 43:18.336 --> 43:19.617 [SPEAKER_01]: It's from the, um, 43:20.397 --> 43:22.078 [SPEAKER_01]: from the Edward Scissor Hands soundtrack. 43:22.159 --> 43:23.239 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh, that's song. 43:23.600 --> 43:29.985 [SPEAKER_01]: I have listened to probably more than any other song, and it just really comes me and reminds me that like, we're all magical. 43:30.145 --> 43:37.131 [SPEAKER_01]: We're all magical and we can tap into our own inner magic to help other people feel more comfortable or to help ourselves feel acceptance. 43:37.211 --> 43:42.335 [SPEAKER_01]: And so honestly, those are the kind of things that I feel like I use the most in terms of like, I gotta rescent her. 43:42.675 --> 43:43.997 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't need to pet myself up. 43:44.237 --> 43:45.758 [SPEAKER_01]: I probably need to calm myself down. 43:45.798 --> 43:59.502 [SPEAKER_01]: and even before stage a lot of times if I'm feeling a little extra angst, I listen to something calming to pet me up for stage because it actually, like I said, I've got enough adrenaline in there, I've got enough anxiety to fill a stadium. 43:59.562 --> 44:02.643 [SPEAKER_01]: So I have to really calm myself down a lot of times. 44:03.168 --> 44:07.832 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, Lizzie, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me. 44:07.852 --> 44:09.534 [SPEAKER_00]: This is fantastic. 44:09.554 --> 44:20.083 [SPEAKER_00]: You're really strong mental health advocate, and you've been out talking about these things, and someone like yourself talking about especially eating disorders in particular. 44:20.203 --> 44:23.846 [SPEAKER_00]: I think is such an interaction is such a difficult topic to talk about. 44:23.886 --> 44:25.468 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, thank you so much. 44:26.168 --> 44:28.871 [SPEAKER_00]: They can help a lot of people just hearing your story. 44:29.471 --> 44:29.992 [SPEAKER_00]: Appreciate it. 44:30.627 --> 44:33.571 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, thank you so much for your time, and you're really insightful questions. 44:33.591 --> 44:34.272 [SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate you. 44:35.694 --> 44:45.867 [SPEAKER_00]: So there it is, Lindsey and I talking about her struggle with anorexia and how she coaps with the issues that can cause and exacerbate her eating disorder on her mental health journey. 44:46.628 --> 45:03.423 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, there's so much to take away from the conversation with Lindsay, but the issue I wanted to talk about was something that came up towards the end of our discussion, which is when we have an eating disorder like anorexia, how does the rest of our life, including often living itself, suddenly not matter? 45:04.123 --> 45:08.847 [SPEAKER_00]: How do we

get so focused on our eating, shape, and weight at the expense of everything else? 45:09.668 --> 45:14.869 [SPEAKER_00]: And there are, of course, many reasons why we may find ourselves struggling with a particular eating disorder. 45:15.689 --> 45:23.271 [SPEAKER_00]: One thing that is important to note that we all face is the societal context that may unfortunately perpetuate eating disorders. 45:23.691 --> 45:33.133 [SPEAKER_00]: We live in a society in which we are often encouraged to and rewarded for having a singular focus to sacrifice everything to achieve one goal. 45:33.813 --> 45:42.441 [SPEAKER_00]: We may encourage athletes to put their bodies and their minds, and in some cases their long-term health and well-being at risk for success in their sport. 45:43.021 --> 45:54.952 [SPEAKER_00]: We may admire people who are willing to spend all of their time working, studying or practicing to achieve professional success in a given field, often at the expense of social, physical, and emotional health. 45:55.492 --> 46:02.621 [SPEAKER_00]: We may honor soldiers and first responders who are willing to push themselves and even give up their life for a given cause. 46:03.282 --> 46:07.868 [SPEAKER_00]: And in that context, yes, often people do whatever is necessary. 46:08.128 --> 46:10.371 [SPEAKER_00]: Restrictive diets, plastic surgeries. 46:10.992 --> 46:16.537 [SPEAKER_00]: extreme exercise regimens, performance enhancing drugs to achieve a particular body ideal. 46:17.057 --> 46:24.103 [SPEAKER_00]: And so is it really so surprising that some of us develop extreme eating disorders such as anorexia in this societal context? 46:24.363 --> 46:26.204 [SPEAKER_00]: So how do we cope with this pressure? 46:26.745 --> 46:31.369 [SPEAKER_00]: How do we try to achieve our life goals without the rest of our lives fading away? 46:32.049 --> 46:41.815 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, one thing that Lindsay described doing was having a conversation with her eating disorder, which she aptly named Ed, and she validated having certain needs. 46:42.136 --> 46:44.917 [SPEAKER_00]: For example, control is a respectable need. 46:45.198 --> 46:46.839 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't we all want a sense of control? 46:47.439 --> 46:49.120 [SPEAKER_00]: Connection is a good need. 46:49.360 --> 46:54.304 [SPEAKER_00]: We all want to feel connected to others, feeling good about our bodies is an understandable need. 46:54.984 --> 46:55.404 [SPEAKER_00]: And so our 46:59.707 --> 47:04.490 [SPEAKER_00]: And in our conversation with our eating disorder, we can validate these needs and goals. 47:04.930 --> 47:07.411 [SPEAKER_00]: But that can't be the end of the conversation. 47:07.712 --> 47:12.975 [SPEAKER_00]: We have to ask ourselves, is our eating disorder actually making us feel more in control? 47:13.715 --> 47:15.656 [SPEAKER_00]: Are we actually more connected to others? 47:16.136 --> 47:18.558 [SPEAKER_00]: Do we actually feel good about our bodies? 47:19.681 --> 47:27.363 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, usually when our eating disorder is beginning, and our thoughts and behaviors are more mild, the answer can be, yes, at least for a while. 47:27.963 --> 47:33.584 [SPEAKER_00]: We're on a strict diet, we enjoy getting compliments on weight loss, and we feel better about our bodies. 47:34.305 --> 47:43.187 [SPEAKER_00]: But as time goes on, and our eating disorder fully takes hold, we feel out of control, because we are constantly triggered by the temptation of available food. 47:44.027 --> 47:52.579 [SPEAKER_00]: and the people who complimented us initially, notice that perhaps we are severely underweight and we are unable to engage in social activities. 47:53.768 --> 48:03.016 [SPEAKER_00]: And we also find that while we initially feel better about our bodies at the beginning of our eating disorders, we end up never being satisfied with our bodies. 48:03.436 --> 48:16.827 [SPEAKER_00]: And if we can have that conversation with our eating disorder, we can realize that having structured but flexible eating patterns gives us a better sense of control that we are more connected to others if we are mindful but not rigid about our eating. 48:16.907 --> 48:27.191 [SPEAKER_00]: and we recognize that our bodies are just one aspect of our lives, and that we can feel good about our bodies, even if we are not at what we consider to be ideal weight. 48:27.571 --> 48:37.595 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, this approach may seem simple, and it is to some degree, but it is definitely not easy, and it is only one aspect of an overall treatment plan for an eating disorder. 48:37.895 --> 48:44.858 [SPEAKER_00]: Most of us could use the help of mental health professionals and or support groups to cope with our eating disorder throughout our lives. 48:45.656 --> 48:48.901 [SPEAKER_00]: But if like Lindsay, we have a conversation with our eating disorder. 48:49.282 --> 48:59.138 [SPEAKER_00]: Rather than just blindly obeying what our eating disorder commands, we are much more likely to find a healthy approach to our eating, shape, and weight on our mental health journey. 49:02.220 --> 49:06.402 [SPEAKER_00]: I of course want to thank consequence podcasts network for including me in this wonderful project. 49:06.843 --> 49:10.405 [SPEAKER_00]: And thanks to Pete Wilson and the ropes for letting us use their song, I know. 49:10.645 --> 49:22.892 [SPEAKER_00]: If you are struggling with anxiety, depression, or addiction, and are looking for help, please call the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration National Helpline at 1-800-622-4357. 49:23.052 --> 49:28.455 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're thinking about harming yourself and want to seek help, please contact the suicide 49:31.156 --> 49:38.019 [SPEAKER_00]: You may also go to the Consequence website for more information, so be healthy, be safe, and be content to yourself and others. 49:38.779 --> 49:40.699 [SPEAKER_00]: See you next time at the Crossroads.