התמלול המלא של Unlocking our potential: Integrity is our key

I think probably the most prominent value in how we hold our work, how we live our lives, is about integrity. 00:02:58.479 --> 00:03:05.919 Being able to have integrity um allows you to establish trust, to lean in, to be consistent. 00:03:06.159 --> 00:03:19.840 I think integrity for me, and when there is a lack of integrity, is where there's really a dangerous space of distrust and harm that perpetuates the many systems that we're working to transform. 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:31.599 Yeah, I mean, integrity is a big deal in a world of hierarchy, you know, where people have power, where it's clear, you know, you may not have power. 00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:34.319 Self-preservation comes up in our work. 00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:39.280 Uh you know, this was something we feel like has held back innovation. 00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:40.000 Right? 00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:47.439 This idea that, well, how do we break out of what we're doing when, you know, my job is on the line, or I have staff who have a job. 00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:49.199 Uh, you know, the and it's real. 00:03:49.599 --> 00:03:53.520 I understand the need to, you know, make sure your family's gonna be okay. 00:03:53.840 --> 00:04:08.479 But as a as a a group, you know, how do we break through that into innovation when when there's a fear about holding your integrity in in these ways, and especially in moments where there can be real repercussions, you know? 00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:22.800 Yeah, it's so interesting you say that because I hearing you say fear in that, the fear of holding your integrity is fascinating because um oftentimes I think in my life and my career where folks have said, Oh, you're you know, you're so brave. 00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:27.120 You're doing this thing, you you're leaning out, like leaning in, you're telling the truth. 00:04:27.279 --> 00:04:29.360 The truth is a brave thing to do. 00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:32.959 And I always tell people, like, I've never felt brave in the work. 00:04:33.120 --> 00:04:37.680 I felt like I was holding my integrity, so I was protected in the work, right? 00:04:37.759 --> 00:04:39.920 I'm protected in life, you know. 00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:50.639 And I've I've shared with you before, Shaka, that, you know, I was reading something, it was saying to add values to this list of things that folks were gonna teach their kids, right? 00:04:50.720 --> 00:04:56.000 And you would walk them through the list, and there were some funny things on there, and then there were some more serious ones. 00:04:56.240 --> 00:05:03.439 And my entry point was integrity and telling my son that integrity both serves as sword and shield, right? 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:06.240 Your only job is to hold it tight. 00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:09.279 The situation will determine which one it is. 00:05:09.439 --> 00:05:21.120 And I think that we're seeing this over and over again, where if you're honest about who you are, what you're doing, uh, what is the right thing to do, I do

feel that there's a protection in that. 00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:23.519 There's a protection in how you walk through the world. 00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:30.480 And what we're seeing collapsing around us right now is because the foundation of that integrity has been fractured, right? 00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:39.360 We're seeing hypocrisy at massive scales, not just in everyday decisions and practices, but we're seeing like federal constructs, right? 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:44.319 That are anchored in um in what we can see as a hypocrisy. 00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:56.000 Whether you're a bad bunny fan or a kid rock fan, the hypocrisy, right, of why there had to be two when and when uh depending on who you're talking to, the no, I don't want to say that. 00:05:57.839 --> 00:05:58.639 All right, all right. 00:05:58.879 --> 00:06:15.360 It's the hypocrisy, though, that we need to avoid in order to center our humanity and truly show up and build what what we need is a better world for our children to grow up in and their children to grow up in, really start thinking about the generations and generations and generations ahead. 00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:29.279 Yeah, and in our work, you know, it just brings me back to why we've always looked at history and not like, you know, it's tells us everything, but there's so much to be said about this conversation. 00:06:29.439 --> 00:06:41.600 And in throughout the year, you know, you look back, people have made decisions and justified horrible things to themselves, personally, as part of a group, as part of a larger institution. 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:44.000 All of it is holding us back. 00:06:44.800 --> 00:07:08.000 And when we sit in spaces and we try to radically dream and imagine, it to me it becomes super clear of the need to hold one's integrity and to be bold and creative and not fearful, but to actually, you know, really think that you know we have an opportunity to create something that has to account for what we've built so far. 00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:11.439 So we can't run from and be afraid of the past. 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:13.680 We shouldn't try to hide it. 00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:21.360 And if we are, you know, honest with each other, we need to know all of us need to know and learn from it, right? 00:07:21.439 --> 00:07:24.079 In order to then contribute to where we're trying to go. 00:07:24.639 --> 00:07:31.279 And so it's it is an incentive it's kind of a philosophical thing, but yet it's actually very tangible. 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:35.759 Um and and you know, it's tangible for me in that it's no one's job. 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:43.040 Whose job is it to reimagine society and for and to recreate these structures that we lean on every day? 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:48.319 It's either no one's job or it's all of our job, right? 00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:54.959 And then what do you what how do you guide yourself through all the tensions and turmoil of that? 00:07:55.519 --> 00:08:01.839 I think what you said about your integrity is is is really key to that practice. 00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:09.439 Yeah, and I think it is shifting the responsibility and in a really positive way to say, no, we all want better. 00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:11.199 We see what's happening around us. 00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:21.439 We I think anybody that you speak to truly and I truly believe this, they want the absolute best for their children and their children's children, right? 00:08:21.839 --> 00:08:31.360 That we have to fully lean into that and say, and in order to deliver for the generations ahead of us that we're never gonna meet, right? 00:08:31.519 --> 00:09:00.799 But we love no less than the ones that are with us right now, is to really step in and be as creative as possible, learning from the lessons of history, what we know works, what we know we need to do, um, really unlocking our potential to come up with the solutions that we know need to be centered within our communities to strengthen the future, not only of our children's children, but of the country, of the nation, and who America will be uh in the future. 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:09.519 And it's a big part of you know, meeting in the middle, compromising basically the real work, right? 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:13.120 Nobody's one vision is gonna just become reality. 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:20.159 It's all of us sharing with each other and then taking a moment to say, like, well, I'm not sure I understand your vision. 00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:22.639 Like, why would you want us to live that way? 00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:23.200 Right. 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:31.200 And for you to be able to then say, yeah, actually, I'm trying to undo this particular thing with my vision for the future. 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:53.200 And for us to hear each other, because there's gonna have to be some accounting for the harm that's been baked into these systems, for the perpetual perpetuation of that harm that is being unleashed and continues to be unleashed, all under this notion and guides of social control, um, which really needs to be addressed. 00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:58.639 We are not controlling the environment, we don't get to control the ecosystems that we live in. 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:00.320 We live together, right? 00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:03.679 And that's a different equation, that's a different relationship. 00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:16.960 And really having integrity about being able to call things out, question things here, somebody else question you is such a powerful notion in that in that realm. 00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:34.720 Chuck, let me ask you when you think about the future world building, designing, prototyping, the things that we want to see and kind of reconstruct, um what what do you think is the biggest fear for folks and leading into that creative space? 00:10:34.799 --> 00:10:38.000 And what do you think is the the brightest possibility? 00:10:38.559 --> 00:10:39.919 Yeah, that's a great question. 00:10:40.080

--> 00:10:56.799 I mean, one of the things that surprised me from the sessions we've been running with folks around radical imagination and really trying to dig in on design um was just how much people need to trust each other to share their deep ideas. 00:10:57.600 --> 00:11:08.399 And how we'll kind of self-regulate the most precious ideas off the table because there's a there's just not enough trust in that space and in the group. 00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:12.960 You don't want to be the crazy person in the room offering the crazy ideas, yeah. 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:17.440 Unless you like that sort of thing, I don't mind being the crazy person in the room. 00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:22.320 Well, especially if that that unique idea is really deeply personal to you. 00:11:23.039 --> 00:11:28.159 It's really deeply connects with your your history of who you are, sacred practice. 00:11:28.399 --> 00:11:29.600 Well, say more about that. 00:11:29.759 --> 00:11:31.600 I think this is a really important point. 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:37.679 Yeah, I mean, it's one thing to just say a crazy idea for an outfit that you're detached from and don't care about. 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:44.080 And that people might say, Yeah, I wouldn't wear that in public if I were you, you know, unless you want to make a fool of yourself, right? 00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:47.519 And that conversation can feel not so heavy. 00:11:47.759 --> 00:12:16.639 It can feel much more heavy when talking about a solution for issues of domestic violence and leaning on cultural practices that your family has leaned on for generations, and for other people to sit there and belittle what you've shared or the fear of them rejecting you or challenging what you're saying in a way that feels not at all welcoming, but much more really it's about their defensiveness and discomfort with what you've shared. 00:12:16.960 --> 00:12:31.440 All of that is risky for people and is very threatening in a world of, again, hierarchy, where you might be in meetings with colleagues who have the ability to use their bias against you or to look at you differently now because of something you share. 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:35.360 That's limiting our human potential every single day. 00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:43.919 I've seen it over and over again, where because of these factors and these dynamics, people know not to share their gems. 00:12:44.159 --> 00:12:45.679 They just don't trust it. 00:12:45.919 --> 00:12:48.240 And what does that mean for all of us, you know? 00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:48.720 Right. 00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:55.840 And so have you seen anything like this in your, you know, what have you seen, or what is it, what does this, you know, ring out for you, Sam? 00:12:56.240 --> 00:13:05.039 I think what it sparks for me, and you know, and you and I talk a lot about different power dynamics at play in all different types of settings. 00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:09.840 And so for me, I'm gonna I'm gonna bring up how I think

gender shows up in this sometimes. 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:25.200 I think that um there's an expectation for women to lean in a little more, to trust more, to kind of state a vulnerability or how uh it's it's not uncommon for even when we plan a meeting, where are we meeting? 00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:26.000 What time? 00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:28.240 Where uh what's the parking situation? 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:30.720 I have to think about are there shadows? 00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:31.600 Do I have to consider? 00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:33.039 Is there an empty parking lot? 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:34.480 Are we meeting between buildings? 00:13:34.639 --> 00:13:44.480 These are things as a woman I think I've become conditioned to think about in terms of planning my route, planning my safety, where I notice even you and I in partnership, right? 00:13:44.559 --> 00:13:46.799 Where you'll say, Oh, okay, I'm gonna get in really late. 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:48.080 Let's meet up here. 00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:51.919 And now we have to talk and say, well, wait, what's the way to get there? 00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:54.480 Is that smart for me to be there at that time? 00:13:54.639 --> 00:14:02.720 Where should we, you know, just things that I have to think about, which in a way I think is expected for me to think about and acceptable for me to think about. 00:14:02.879 --> 00:14:12.159 Whereas for men, I think there's less of an invitation to prioritize your own safety concerns, things that you're thinking about. 00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:17.360 You know, you always hear the phrase like we we have sons, but we raise daughters, right? 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:22.799 And I think we need to shift that and we need to raise our children in that way. 00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:33.279 I'll tell you, like what really stood out to me, it's um we did an amazing cultural exchange when we took our team to Puerto Rico. 00:14:34.159 --> 00:14:35.200 Beautiful weather. 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:40.399 You look outside, the ocean was crashing up against the rocks, a beautiful beach. 00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:42.000 Um, not far from the city. 00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:51.679 We were able to just, you know, in a few minutes be there in town with restaurants and culture and shops, and it was just it was just breathtaking. 00:14:52.720 --> 00:15:04.799 The irony, or not the irony, I guess like the beauty of the timing of us being there as the Haywood Burns Institute was there it was a moment of civil unrest. 00:15:04.879 --> 00:15:12.399 And so we had people in the streets that were really um advocating for communities and for Puerto Rico as a whole. 00:15:12.559 --> 00:15:23.919 And so our team showing up at that time, like, oh man, we were everyone wanted to be in the street and participating with the locals to make sure we were part of this moment and sharing in the atmosphere. 00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:26.879 It was, it was just a really beautiful exchange. 00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:44.720 And we sat with Tali Salud and we were discussing these things between our organizations, an amazing organization, shout out to them for sure, doing uh maternal health and as a priority shifted their focus because what moms wanted was the protection of their sons, right? 00:15:44.799 --> 00:15:46.240 Their sons were being killed. 00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:54.240 There was community violence, they needed the maternal health organization to shift and prioritize looking after young boys, right? 00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:56.080 That's a huge paradigm shift, right? 00:15:56.320 --> 00:16:00.720 One that we enjoyed learning about their journey and how they were shifting. 00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:14.480 What struck me um and always seems to really resonate for me when I watch so many um different docuseries, things that are coming out that talk about either sexual violence or domestic violence. 00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:17.120 We know the stats for girls, right? 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:22.799 They'll say like one in four girls have experienced, you know, some kind of harm in this way. 00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:36.320 I'm so curious about all the ways in which women are asked to share those experiences and why, like I'll say sexual violence can end with men. 00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:41.759 And when are men having conversations with boys? 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:46.159 Not have you been assaulted, but have you assaulted, right? 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:48.879 And what do we need to do and how do we need to reframe that? 00:16:49.039 --> 00:16:59.519 And so there's a a difference in the work that we do when we're talking about, you know, eliminating racial and ethnic disparities across human service systems, who do you see at the table? 00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:06.559 Oftentimes the people of color working within these systems, pushing, pushing, pushing to change policy and practice. 00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:13.279 And I find that we always have one side of the equation at the table who cares and wants to do things differently. 00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:21.839 And I actually think if we centered our humanity and unlocked our human potential, it would be because both of us are at the table. 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:31.839 Both of us are engaging deeply in a trusted space of shared values to truly offer our greatest ideas and ambition for the future. 00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:33.920 That for me is the secret sauce. 00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:39.759 I feel like that's what we've tried to be in our organization, in the Haywood Burns Institute. 00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:45.759 We serve as a bridge and we always have to consider which side is not at the table. 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:47.279 How do we bridge them in? 00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:56.559 Let's make sure that we're having a deep understanding of the issue so that we have a deeper solution to apply for community to thrive. 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:05.839 Sam, that story about Puerto Rico is so powerful. 00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:22.720 Something that really

resonates with me is just that the notion of maternal health and really starting there, which is totally makes sense, was a contradiction for those women in that community when they were seeing the men, young men dying in the streets. 00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:26.799 And that's not the first time I've experienced that contradiction. 00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:30.160 We've experienced that contradiction far too often. 00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:38.319 And we've heard people raise it in meetings and saying, wait a minute, but I understand we're trying to do A, but what about this? 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:49.039 What about the fact that all of our efforts will, what will that mean, though, if this young man gets, you know, attacked or shot, you know, the violence happens in the community, and we're not addressing that. 00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:53.279 But let me say, let me say, I'm not sure that it's a contradiction necessarily. 00:18:53.440 --> 00:18:59.119 I think the way we look at things on the surface, yes, I could see that it's a contradiction. 00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:12.079 But to understand me as a person, to know me and my needs as a woman, to know that the safety of my son is driving my health outcomes, that's the connection, right? 00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:22.559 So it's if we accept people as whole people, multidimensional people who have family and relationships and are deeply embedded in their communities, that's what I mean. 00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:24.400 Yeah, I agree with you 100%. 00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:26.880 The solution is going to be cross-cutting. 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:37.440 That's why you can't have organizations that are singularly focused on a singular issue because all of these things overlap and intertwine into who we are. 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:44.319 And we've heard these solutions in meetings from community members with lived experience with it. 00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:44.960 100%. 00:19:45.440 --> 00:20:04.319 And we've watched bureaucrats and decision makers deprioritize their voice, act like it's not possible, and really, in many ways, admit later that they actually violated their own integrity, but they did it for XYZ reason, which usually is a protective measure. 00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:14.240 And so, not to demonize them, but more just to say like it is very real, this compromise that that folk make around their integrity in these moments. 00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:18.079 Um, and and it's absolutely true what you're saying. 00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:21.440 It's it's both, it's not either or. 00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:44.400 And so many of the solutions that have made success um in out of really tough situations really leaned into the both perspectives, not just, you know, we're only gonna take one side on this issue and on the approach, which required people to hear each other, listen, and be open to shifting some of their mental models, you know. 00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:45.039 You're right. 00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:54.960 I think, you know,

the way the pieces fit together and how we're talking about this, what I appreciate in you and I holding this space together is the balance that we provide, right? 00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:57.920 And bringing it together so that folks can see. 00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:02.880 Yeah, it's it's it's as if you've described the human ecosystem. 00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:06.640 We we are not totally separate, we are interwoven. 00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:08.240 We need each other, right? 00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:12.880 The solutions need that balance, that dichotomy. 00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:26.720 We need to understand the history of patriarchy, the history of racism to overcome these things, not to just act like, well, they'll just disappear because a particular election was uh this, you know, voted one way or another. 00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:31.839 You know, we have to actually deeply understand how these things impact us today. 00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:36.960 And, you know, I thank you for this episode and for the sharing. 00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:41.519 And that we get to do this in our line of work is sacred. 00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:48.559 But I always tell people like, all of us getting to do this is as sacred as any of us getting to do this, right? 00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:59.440 We can all participate in this, coming together, creating that balance, listening and hearing each other, um, and interrogating some of what we've done in order to. 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:03.599 Create a better future for those generations to come. 00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:18.960 Every time I get an opportunity to do this, I feel an honor to dig in on these topics and to really think I'm gonna listen and hear and learn. 00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:28.559 Likewise, I appreciate this space, appreciate diving in with you, your partnership, both in the day-to-day and in the spaces we create and the future as we look forward. 00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:34.079 Remember, Shaka, we started this with the analogy that integrity is both sword and shield, right? 00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:36.640 All we gotta do is hold it tight. 00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:48.559 We recognize what a privilege it is to share this time and space with you all as we consider our limitless potential to build a better future for this world. 00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:53.359 We would like to thank our listeners for your support and thank you to our team and producers. 00:22:54.079 --> 00:23:03.359 There is a bright future on deck, and we hope this podcast is a reminder that you all have a meaningful part and a great responsibility in building it. 00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:05.680 It's the opportunity of a lifetime. 00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:09.359 You can download Future on Deck wherever you get your podcast. 00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:14.640 Be sure to like and subscribe and leave a comment to us about your own vision for the future. 00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:16.240 Help us get the word out. 00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:18.400 So if you're new here, come on in. 00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:20.880 This is a space where we all belong. 00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:26.160 Hey, it's Shaco. 00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:28.640 We've got something we are really excited to share. 00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:34.319 On June 10th, Burns Institute is releasing our brand new documentary, Youth Justice Reimagine. 00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:37.599 A story of community innovation and collaboration. 00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:44.799 It shows what happens when a community comes together against incredible odds to envision an environment that puts care before punishment. 00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:51.680 It is about courage, imagination, and the people on the ground in LA who are reshaping what youth justice can actually look like. 00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:54.720 Mark your calendars for June 10th, you will not want to miss it. 00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:56.640 Follow us to find out where to watch. 00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:59.599 The future is on deck, and this one is a must see.