התמלול המלא של Why Quitting Isn’t Failure | Gareth Holebrook on Ishi

00:03:53.280 How the language we use can influence the way the teams we lead think. 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:56.240 So what we say can change how our teams think. 00:03:56.879 --> 00:04:04.560 And then his most recent book, Distancing, and he wrote this with Michael Gillespie, who's a psychological uh professor of psychology. 00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:08.560 That's psychological distancing is getting out of your own ego. 00:04:08.719 --> 00:04:13.759 And when we make decisions, it's not the me here now, it's what would somebody else think? 00:04:13.919 --> 00:04:15.759 What would my future self think? 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:19.680 And what would I think if I was looking upon this from the balcony? 00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:27.279 And it's it's the idea here is for us to make better decisions and and not get caught up in our biases that we all have. 00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:27.920 Yeah. 00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:33.920 And and if you do want to learn more about that side, we did talk a little bit in detail about in that in the last episode. 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:36.560 So jump back one and learn a bit more about that. 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:40.399 But I also, when I saw the book, do you know what I love about it? 00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:42.160 It's so minimalistic. 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:49.680 But I sort of flick through it and I see all this beautiful Japanese calligraphy. 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:50.480 Is that the right word? 00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:51.199 Calligraphy? 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:51.759 Yeah. 00:04:52.079 --> 00:04:54.160 So it's it's just beautiful. 00:04:54.240 --> 00:04:55.600 And it's so minimalistic. 00:04:55.759 --> 00:04:57.040 Like there's nothing. 00:04:57.199 --> 00:04:57.439 Yeah. 00:04:57.680 --> 00:05:02.000 There's nothing that's good, because often you pick up a book and it's like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:03.519 That's the sales point, right? 00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:04.160 Yeah. 00:05:04.399 --> 00:05:06.399 So why, why, what is this? 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:09.360 So, yeah, I like Japanese mineral minimum minimalism. 00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:11.439 Really fascinated by Zen Buddhism. 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:16.560 And but what I wanted to do with the book is not, I don't want the book to shout at you and try and sell at you. 00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:22.480 So my my thinking is that the book is unlikely to be at the airport where people just grab it to go on the plane. 00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:24.160 It's the kind of destination book. 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:27.279 You you've maybe seen this podcast or seen me. 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:34.800 Um, and I'm I'm speaking at conferences, and that people want to read it because they know the story behind it, because we know the story behind it. 00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:38.240 So I it was a deliberate act to make it minimalist. 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:43.439 I love the discipline of determined intent. 00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:44.399 Yeah, yeah. 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:46.079

That is just fantastic. 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:50.319 So Ishi means it means uh determined intent. 00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:51.680 And so this was only a year ago. 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:54.800 I've been thinking about this book for almost 10 years. 00:05:55.040 --> 00:06:00.240 Somebody asked me to speak at a conference about my Iron Man background and how that applies to work. 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:06.399 So I talked about Iron Man and the few pictures of me finishing race in the LSG, block of spandex and a lot. 00:06:06.639 --> 00:06:20.639 But then also, I will say You're the only guy I know who's been on nearly finished an Iron Man and been unconscious on the ground for 40 minutes and then got up and finished that. 00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:22.079 But that's not a good thing. 00:06:23.519 --> 00:06:28.879 Perhaps not, but for the average Kiwi bloke, that's a very good thing. 00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:35.120 So um, yeah, so I was asked to speak at this conference about my Iron Man background and how it applies to work. 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:38.240 And but I'm fascinated with Japanese philosophy. 00:06:38.319 --> 00:06:46.879 So Kaizen had worked in a few Japanese companies, so I understood Kanban and Ikigai, which is your reason for being. 00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:52.560 And there's a bit of a debate online about what it really means, what the Japanese really think about it. 00:06:52.879 --> 00:06:57.600 So I was writing this book, and then so I was including all of these Japanese concepts in the book. 00:06:57.839 --> 00:07:03.680 And about a year ago, I thought, well, what I really like about intent-based leadership is that word intent. 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:07.600 So I jumped onto ChatGPT and said, What's what's Japanese for intent? 00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:10.480 And there's actually a few different words for intent. 00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:12.639 But then I landed on this word, ishi. 00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:17.120 And then I read a bit more about it, and then a bit more, and I got caught in this rabbit hole. 00:07:17.839 --> 00:07:21.360 And ishi is plural, it's not singular. 00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:28.079 So in in the West, we think of will or determination as you have our willpower or will, one thing. 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:30.399 But we actually have competing wills. 00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:35.040 We have our professional will, maybe what the family wants, what we really want to do. 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:39.279 And we need to discern between these wills because they will often contradict one another. 00:07:40.160 --> 00:07:45.920 And in Japan, ishi uh is used, and kete is the decision to to to use ishi. 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:47.839 And that's yeah, kaizen. 00:07:48.639 --> 00:07:56.079 So I I started reading Ishii and it was an epiphany, it was only a year ago, and I thought, Ishii, this is what I'm really writing about. 00:07:56.160 --> 00:07:57.120 It's intense. 00:07:57.759 --> 00:08:02.639 When I wanted to race in Iron Man, I had this deliberate decision to do it. 00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:11.839 And you really need that when you're training and you're getting up at five to go swimming, and when you're in 25Ks into a race, you need to have a purpose of why you're doing this. 00:08:12.720 --> 00:08:19.519 Actually, what we didn't mention is I did this race in Taranaki called Kiwi Man, which is a bit longer than an Iron Man. 00:08:20.079 --> 00:08:25.759 Um I'd done it a few times, and then in 2021, they said, Well, we're gonna do a double. 00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:30.800 So you do the Kiwi Man on the Friday, and then you get up on the Saturday and do it all again. 00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:35.279 So most people, most people would say Iron Man is quiet. 00:08:36.159 --> 00:08:41.120 Most iron men say Kiwi Man is crazy because we climbed the mountain as well. 00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:46.720 And most people who've done Kiwi Man, apart from I think six have done the double, say what yes. 00:08:47.360 --> 00:08:48.559 Did you think most people have done it? 00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:50.559 Oh, I'm puffed just thinking of it. 00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:56.000 So the interesting thing is on that second day, I got out of the water. 00:08:56.080 --> 00:09:00.480 I couldn't even stand up getting out because normally a day after a nine man, you were a bit stiff. 00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:01.120 Yeah. 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:08.960 And I, so my support crew got me on the bike and it was still dark because we had to start at five in the morning, and off I was going, it was cold. 00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:13.679 My body was not it was not cooperating, and I was miserable. 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:18.159 But I had a reason because I had this book in my mind, even back in 2021. 00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:27.120 I want to write this book, and I thought that if I can do a double iron distance race, it earns me the right to talk about grit and resilience. 00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:29.679 So I had a reason to carry on, and it was this book. 00:09:29.919 --> 00:09:30.240 Yeah. 00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:36.080 So I I talk about Kiwi Man in there, I talk about my Iron Man race, the the one where I collapsed. 00:09:36.159 --> 00:09:37.919 That was my first chapter. 00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:41.200 I also talk about when my persistence doesn't help. 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:44.559 So I had a startup, a biohacking startup in 2004. 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:48.799 And it became obvious within a few months that it wasn't commercially viable. 00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:50.639 And I carry it on for five years. 00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:50.960 Yeah. 00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:53.679 So sometimes we need to know when to evolve. 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:57.519 And then there's a few races when I did just too many in one year. 00:09:57.600 --> 00:09:59.759 So I did five Iron Man races in one year. 00:09:59.919 --> 00:10:01.519 And at the end of the year, I was sick. 00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:01.840 Yeah. 00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:03.120 What do you thought? 00:10:03.440

--> 00:10:08.000 So really the the the essence of the book is how do we govern ourselves? 00:10:08.159 --> 00:10:09.440 How do we persist? 00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:13.200 Persist long enough to know that that now is the time to give up. 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:19.200 And it's not a moral judgment to give up, it's actually a competence to give yourself permission to give up. 00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:22.960 So this just isn't a book for leaders, is it? 00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:25.360 This would be great for parents to read. 00:10:25.600 --> 00:10:25.759 Yeah. 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:31.600 Young people who are going out into the business world who have an entrepreneurial mind. 00:10:32.080 --> 00:10:32.240 Yeah. 00:10:32.559 --> 00:10:33.759 Somebody running afar. 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:34.320 Yeah. 00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:38.480 I think there's four failure modes, I think, that we all suffer from. 00:10:38.639 --> 00:10:42.240 The first is how we make decisions and how we govern decisions. 00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:44.320 And then we stick to those decisions. 00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:46.879 So what might be a good idea on New Year's Eve? 00:10:47.039 --> 00:10:49.279 By the second Friday, we give up on. 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:52.799 The second thing is how do we perform deliberate practice? 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:54.159 And that is really hard. 00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:57.200 It takes a lot of effort, it takes a lot of feedback. 00:10:57.519 --> 00:11:07.039 If you can imagine as a junior chef having to practice again and again and getting feedback from the head chef for maybe you're telling me that story, you have to continually repeat. 00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:10.720 You only get excellence through deliberate practice, which means you need to persist. 00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:13.919 So there's a pairing between persistence and practice. 00:11:14.559 --> 00:11:16.480 And finally, how do we reflect? 00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:26.240 So, with my startup that failed, I wasn't actually standing back thinking this isn't working, looking at the numbers, looking at the number of clients coming through and paying. 00:11:26.639 --> 00:11:27.519 It was failing. 00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:30.799 I was just too preoccupied, I was too blinkered to carry on. 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:36.960 So there's four things deciding how we forge, how we persist, and how we reflect. 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:42.159 And I see those four things not just as four disparate points, a system. 00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:44.720 And within that system, they all interact. 00:11:44.879 --> 00:11:47.279 So a good decision is going to help you when you persist. 00:11:47.919 --> 00:11:52.879 Persistence is going to help with the forging, and reflection is going to help the next decision. 00:11:53.759 --> 00:11:56.799 So I've created this model, which I've called the issue spiral. 00:11:56.960 --> 00:12:00.720 And it is not just a habit loop, it's not just a sequence of those four things. 00:12:00.960 --> 00:12:02.799 It's

how these things interact. 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:09.679 And in the heart of it is what I've called AHA, which is the governance to govern yourself. 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:12.000 That when do you need to adjust? 00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:15.200 When things are changing, you need to change your method. 00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:16.799 When do you hold? 00:12:16.960 --> 00:12:20.879 This is uncomfortable, but we knew it was going to be uncomfortable, we need to stick to it. 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:22.159 And when do you abort? 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:26.320 When have the conditions changed, when do I give myself permission to give up? 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:29.440 So the abort helps against burnout and drift. 00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:34.480 The adjust helps against drift where you're practicing the wrong thing when you want to correct. 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:34.799 Yeah. 00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:37.039 And the hold helps you persist. 00:12:37.279 --> 00:12:39.519 Because often we don't persist enough. 00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:47.600 And I love it in the book how you've got the Yeshy spiral all graphic up here so it's easy to follow, you know. 00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:52.080 And let's talk about intent under pressure, which is part one. 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:54.799 I'm gonna get you to take us on a journey through this book, Gareth. 00:12:55.039 --> 00:13:16.720 Because I'm I'm keen to find out about this card, but just just also I was just thinking about from a Kiwi's perspective, and correct me if my if I'm wrong, but I think like do people are sometimes scared to give up or scared to go, look, this wasn't a like it's like there's a judgment. 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:21.679 Oh, look, I'm gonna stop because this is just not working for this is not working. 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:26.559 But instead of going, it's time to give up, we're scared of being judged. 00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:29.039 Oh, look, you failed, like all of that. 00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:37.279 Is that like the crayfish pot theory of like if you're if you don't get out of it and you don't succeed, then you didn't you didn't win? 00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:39.039 Or like, you know, did yeah. 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:41.039 I feel like there's a lot of that in New Zealand. 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:42.879 Yeah, it's a great song. 00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:45.120 No when it's time to run. 00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:48.080 I mean you just got enough. 00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:50.559 Yeah, but Gareth will have a better answer than that. 00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:59.519 No, well, it's it's true because that business I had, Body O2, it was altitude training, and I had all these fitness hacks because I was into fitness and I wanted to sponsor athletes. 00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:00.960 But it was not viable. 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:02.080 And I just carried on. 00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:03.600 Yeah, I struggled with payroll. 00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:07.679 I had to contract as a project manager to pay for the first job. 00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:13.840 And I remember my accountant after three years saying, You're working so hard, but in the meantime, the rest of us are earning money. 00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:16.399 And there was and there's no end to this. 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:18.240 And I just wouldn't give up. 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:23.840 It was because I had an identity, and I just had this, it's known as escalation of commitment. 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:25.440 I just refused to give up. 00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:29.919 And that meant I lost five years of my life, nothing to show for it. 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:35.440 And I think it we need permission to give up, and it's not a moral judgment, it's a competence. 00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:37.600 So quitting is a competence. 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:42.639 And yes, it's it's a struggle, it's a cognitive bias, and it's a failure of reflection. 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:46.639 And it's it's like some cost, I've put all of this money in. 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:47.919 Yeah, it's not good. 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:50.000 But it doesn't mean you're a failure, though. 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:50.399 No. 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:51.600 No, that's the thing. 00:14:51.679 --> 00:14:53.440 It doesn't mean you're a failure. 00:14:53.759 --> 00:15:00.000 It was the failure was that you didn't reflect properly, right? 00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:04.480 Well, so what advice would you give to people who are struggling at the moment? 00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:08.240 There's a lot of trust me, there's a lot of people out there struggling right now. 00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:12.799 So, yeah, ask what would your future self say of today? 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:16.159 So, in five years' time, what would your future self say? 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:18.480 And I I promise you it's in the book. 00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:19.679 Get the book. 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:21.759 This is what I this is what I was saying at the time. 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:26.799 So, an old Navy friend of mine, Mick, lives in Christchurch, which is where my company was. 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:33.759 And so I sold the house, I was homeless, I put my photo in, and I was couch surfing, and he he was renovating his house. 00:15:33.919 --> 00:15:36.799 No power, no water, and I was just crashing at his house. 00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:41.120 And he was trying to put me up, and another friend was buying me pizza, I had no food. 00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:50.399 And I said to both of them, I promise you, I'm gonna mention you in my book, and both of them are in the book, because they helped me and they were saying, Look, mate, you should call it. 00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:54.720 But at least they were making sure I didn't staff sleep in the bus shelter. 00:15:55.200 --> 00:16:03.919 But I was saying then that as much as this is hard, as much as it's failing at the moment, at the very least, I'm learning, and I've got a great story for a book one day. 00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:05.840 Yeah, that was 2004. 00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:07.600

I mean, it's the book. 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:08.159 Yeah. 00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:10.559 I loved it. 00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:11.120 I loved it. 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:15.120 Admittedly, I thought the title of the book was like the second billion is harder than the first. 00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:21.200 I love today defeat yesterday's self. 00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:23.360 Yeah, and that's the essence of Kaizen. 00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:27.440 And I've always loved that idea of that 1% better. 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:32.000 Now, if you're an elite athlete at the Olympics, it's harder to get 1% better every day. 00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:38.320 But for most of us, we can change significantly just by the compound of those small changes. 00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:43.519 It could be in finances, could be in health, could be in our career or what we learn. 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:50.639 But if every day we try and be what our yesterday's person was, and that's a philosophy I've always lived with, even as a teenager. 00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:57.840 And you'd have to have that sort of philosophy to do things like your extreme races and things like that. 00:16:58.080 --> 00:17:12.000 Because you you have to be getting better and practicing and training and yeah, and you know, every race, and there's a downside to this, but in every race, I would be thinking that this is gonna prepare me for the next race. 00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:15.599 In every time I had a race, I was always at a future race in my mind. 00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:15.920 Yes. 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:29.839 So and in going through my head in that last tank I ever run of I am so I've been going 12, 11, 12 hours, I'd be thinking, oh yeah, I I need to practice more swimming, or you know, my I've not been ashamed as much as I need to be. 00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:31.680 That's why I'm cramping my strength, isn't that? 00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:34.319 And I'd be thinking of all the things I could do better next time. 00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:34.799 Yeah. 00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:36.319 Because I'd have another race. 00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:41.279 Now the downside to that is I would never really push myself because I knew there was always another race. 00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:41.920 Yep. 00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:46.880 Well, that's how it caught up with me because I started with one iron man, then I did another. 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:49.839 It's because I was sponsoring the race, I did another after that. 00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:54.559 And then before you knew it, well, if I've done eight now, if I get to twelve, I get to Kona. 00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:59.680 And then I've done eleven, and then it was and before you know it, I've done 30 of these races. 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:02.720 So you've all done 30 of these races. 00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:03.119 Yes. 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:05.200 I've done 32 now. 00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:06.559 Of iron distance races. 00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:11.359 So if you look at yesterday's self, what would you

do differently? 00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:14.960 Jesus, I never thought I'd get Garrett. 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:19.519 Well, I love this governing intent. 00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:20.880 Governing intent. 00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:27.519 Governing intent, because you know, we've all got intent, but what, you know, to me, you're saying let's manage it. 00:18:27.920 --> 00:18:30.400 Well, and this is what this card is, the issue card. 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:31.759 This is an artifact. 00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:35.920 There's a there is a thing called an intent card, an intention card. 00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:38.240 And we'll have an intention. 00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:43.759 But you know, if we don't write it down, it's unlikely to become a firm commitment. 00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:58.400 And there was some research from the National Health Service that if when because they were having problems with no shows and they were trying to save money, and it was in Bedfordshire, that when you gave somebody an appointment card, rather than giving them the appointment card saying 10 a.m. 00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:03.920 next Tuesday, you you give the patient an empty card and get the patient to write it down. 00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:07.920 The study showed an 18% reduction in no shows. 00:19:08.319 --> 00:19:09.359 Because they write it down. 00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:11.119 Because it was written down, yeah. 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:13.680 So having an intent and writing it down. 00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:17.440 So every morning, I've done this for five years now, on a blank index card. 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:20.000 I have templated them out to show what it looks like. 00:19:20.559 --> 00:19:22.240 I write down my intent. 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:25.759 So today, this one thing today that I'm going to do. 00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:27.279 For this week, I've got an intent. 00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:34.640 I've got an intent for the year, and these long arc intents, and it the the dynamic of them changes depending on the time horizon. 00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:38.000 So you can see on the card, you write down the intent, you write the horizon. 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:40.160 So today, this is what I'm gonna do. 00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:42.640 So of course, today's intent was podcasting. 00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:46.480 And then there's three other things. 00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:48.000 What's the first move? 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:49.759 What is the activation energy? 00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:52.480 Now I'm using Japanese words here, it's explained in the book. 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:58.079 Shugyo is like deliberate practice, or kasu if you're involved in karate. 00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:03.279 That that form, that that practice that over time is gonna rewire the way we think. 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:07.759 So, what's your first move and what's a deliberate practice that you're going to forge? 00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:14.480 Then when you persist, when it gets hard, when you get distracted, when somebody phones

up and says, Can you just do this for me? 00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:16.799 What are you how are you gonna persist? 00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:22.880 And this is where the AHA is important, the aha, to maintain that awareness. 00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:25.440 How am I going to adjust, hold, or abort? 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:29.599 What conditions are going to let me say, this is over, I stop? 00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:32.720 And you make those decisions beforehand. 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:42.960 So I would have, in my AHA, if I had an issue card for that world champs, at the point when I collapse, I should have said, if I collapse, don't get up again. 00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:43.680 Abort. 00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:45.119 Exactly. 00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:46.799 Because it was it was unsafe. 00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:48.160 It was really, really unsafe. 00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:49.440 It has killed people. 00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:51.119 It's really unsafe. 00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:56.160 And then finally, now this is really hard to explain, and I don't always get it right. 00:20:56.559 --> 00:21:01.519 What question would your future self ask of this decision that you've just made? 00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:03.680 So it's called prospective hindsight. 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:03.920 Yeah. 00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:20.079 So Hansay, which means reflect back or retrospect, is you want to at the end of this cycle ask yourself the questions, but you write that question at the beginning because at the end you'll ask the right questions to satisfy your own Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:21.680 But it makes total scenes. 00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:23.839 So you we we are our own press office. 00:21:24.559 --> 00:21:26.640 We're the executive, we're not, we're just the press office. 00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:27.119 Yeah. 00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:32.559 So you're putting your intent of what you expect to happen, is that right? 00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:33.359 Yes. 00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:35.680 And you know, the outcome might be flawed. 00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:36.000 Yeah. 00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:40.160 But the or the decision might be flawed, but the outcome and the decision are two different things. 00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:44.960 You can make a poor decision and be lucky, or you can make a good decision and be unlucky. 00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:47.200 And what we it's called resulting. 00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:48.960 And we connect the two together. 00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:51.680 So if it's a great outcome, we go, well, it's a great decision. 00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:52.079 Yeah. 00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:56.880 Actually, we need to ask what was the quality of the decision, irrespective of the outcome. 00:21:57.039 --> 00:21:57.680 Yeah. 00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:00.960 So before you before you Get into the day. 00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:01.279 Yeah. 00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:04.480 So that question is written, so you're writing your intent. 00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:05.119 Yes. 00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:09.440 And then you're questioning yourself before you even start with the intent. 00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:10.319 Exactly. 00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:12.640 Because because at the end, you're going to be biased. 00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:16.799 You're either patting yourself on the back or you're beating yourself up. 00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:17.039 Yeah. 00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:18.559 If it was a bad you, of course. 00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:19.440 Well, I was an idiot. 00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:20.000 Why I did it? 00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:21.039 Because you didn't know. 00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:22.000 That's fine. 00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:23.359 And there's no judgment. 00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:27.039 What we need to do is next time we make a decision, what would we do differently? 00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:27.359 Yeah. 00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:33.759 In answer to your question, Simon, I think my my weak spot and I ought to focus on swimming. 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:39.039 Now, in an Iron Man, a swim only takes an hour, an hour ten, and it it doesn't really predict the day. 00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:45.680 But what happens is when I've not been a great swimmer, I get out of the water behind, and I feel compelled to catch up. 00:22:46.079 --> 00:22:50.799 I really push the watts and my coach always says, Don't overtake everybody, don't get excited. 00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:54.000 But what that means is I pay for it at the end of the day. 00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:56.880 And so I mean Conor, I was really disciplined. 00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:01.440 But if you if you get excited early on in the race, you always pay for it at the end. 00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:01.839 Yeah. 00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:05.759 And interestingly, so my wife has done a few iLUD races, and she's really disciplined. 00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:08.160 And it's a I think it's a male-female thing as well. 00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:14.000 Because I'm gonna busters and her the last time we raced together was in Germany seven or eight years ago. 00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:16.799 She was faster than me on the run. 00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:23.039 And that's because she she governed herself and she persisted within limits throughout the day with discipline. 00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:24.960 And I was getting all excited on the bike. 00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:28.720 Actually, I've got to tell a great story with us. 00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:30.480 We both raced in Switzerland once. 00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:33.920 The only two Kiwis, this was a World Duathlon champs. 00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:36.559 And the women start an hour before the men. 00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:38.480 So she went off first. 00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:40.240 The first it was only two Kiwis there. 00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:43.759 So she was off, and then on the bike, I was thinking that any time now I'm gonna catch her up. 00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:44.880 I didn't. 00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:48.160 And then on the run, so it's ten hours this was this race. 00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:50.720 On the run I saw that she had 20

minutes on me. 00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:53.359 So I caught up 40 minutes, not 20 minutes. 00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:57.039 And then it was a full lap run in Switzerland, so it was hilly. 00:23:57.200 --> 00:23:59.440 And every lap I was catching up by five minutes. 00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:03.200 And I actually caught her on the blue carpet at the finish line. 00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:07.839 So there's this picture of the two New Zealanders, Holbrook and Saddle, finishing together. 00:24:08.079 --> 00:24:09.039 Well, that's so cool. 00:24:10.960 --> 00:24:12.720 And that was your that was your intent. 00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:14.240 Oh yeah, I was a lot. 00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:20.480 Or if you're reading the book, a system for governing effort. 00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:20.960 Yes. 00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:26.160 Talk about this paragraph, uh, well, this chapter in the book. 00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:32.079 I love it about the issue spiral without breakdown. 00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:39.519 I just think that I'm really looking forward to like reading this. 00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:45.440 I'm gonna take it to Coromandel and find some quiet time to sit and read this. 00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:55.920 Because I I'm actually somebody who, and I haven't done it for a few years, but if you ever come into my office, I have business books, like loads of them. 00:24:56.079 --> 00:25:00.799 Yeah, and I went through in my early days of business, I would read everything that I could. 00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:08.559 Like there's uh like the per is it, the purple elephant, there's oh yeah, you know, all of these different books. 00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:14.240 And I I the only one I really didn't read was the Rich Dad Poor Dad series. 00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:15.599 I never really got into that. 00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:19.039 Um yeah, I I started listening to that because I listen more than read. 00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:19.200 Yeah. 00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:25.119 Um I I'm very prolific in reading and you'll notice it in the buttons. 00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:26.559 I make a lot of references. 00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:33.440 So if you train 20 hours a week on the bike, yeah, and you listen to Audible and you dial it up to 1.7, you get through a lot of books. 00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:38.240 And I and I find I can recall Audible books when I'm cycling because it's just in the zone. 00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:38.640 Yeah. 00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:40.640 Because it's Seth, is it Seth Gooden? 00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:41.200 Yes. 00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:43.119 He, brilliant writer. 00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:47.839 And I got really hooked on business books and I would buy them and buy them and buy them. 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:54.079 But then I actually think I started facing a bit of burnout, and I couldn't, I was too busy in the business. 00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:56.480 I couldn't think about the growth anymore. 00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:56.799 Yeah. 00:25:57.119 --> 00:26:00.640 And I've just recently started going, you know

what? 00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:08.720 I'm gonna get back in, because I am a reader, more a reader that because I've never really, even though we make a podcast, I'm not a great podcast listener. 00:26:09.039 --> 00:26:21.519 Part of me, I think, because I'm so busy and I'm so I'm talking to people all the time, I'm engaged, like, and then when I'm on a drive, I just actually want to put my music on and switch my brain off. 00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:21.920 Yeah. 00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:27.759 I think like if I'm listening to an audiobook, then I'm still, I'm still learning. 00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:29.039 Like it's not right. 00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:37.039 Whereas for me, sitting on a plane, reading a book, sitting, you know, somewhere, I'm the plane person who buys the book before I get on the plane. 00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:39.519 That's where I've most brought most of the books. 00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:45.920 So uh so I've just come back from um Asia and so I read, well, I actually read Grant Schofield's Choose Your Hard. 00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:46.160 Yeah. 00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:52.400 And that really it echoes and resonates a lot with what I've written about. 00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:59.839 And then just coming back from Singapore, I went read Louise Schofield and Grant and a few others, the health coaching book from Pre-Care. 00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:02.960 So I do read books where I have to sit still. 00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:08.559 But I just yeah, sometimes sometimes I'm training it, I'm just not taking it in. 00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:09.759 I'll put some music on. 00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:10.000 Yeah. 00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:15.519 And running, I can't listen to books running, but yeah, on the back because it's just hours and hours just in that zone too. 00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:15.759 Yeah. 00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:16.799 I just love listening to books. 00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:23.039 Flicking through this book, you just I get excited to read it because there's just all these inspirational things in here. 00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:29.039 Four seven times, stand up eight Japanese proverb that you got in there. 00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:29.279 Yeah. 00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:36.319 You know, and it just it really is a fancy. 00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:37.200 I like that one. 00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:39.519 Live the way you fight, fight the way you live. 00:27:39.599 --> 00:27:41.119 Yeah, Miyama Sashi. 00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:43.039 So that's the the book of four rings. 00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:45.119 He was a samurai warrior. 00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:46.480 It's a fascinating book. 00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:46.880 Yeah. 00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:49.200 From one no 10,000. 00:27:49.519 --> 00:27:49.680 Yeah. 00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:51.119 It's just fantastic. 00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:52.000 What a great book. 00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:53.359 So, how do people buy it? 00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:55.039 Um that's so it's on Amazon. 00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:57.519 It's called Ishii, the discipline of determined intent. 00:27:57.759 --> 00:27:59.519 Ishii is a very rare word. 00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:06.000 There is uh actually a a native Californian who was called Ishii, which means uh person in Native American. 00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:12.559 Um and apparently a Chinese lady from America told me that itchi uh with the same kanji is Mandarin. 00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:14.079 So the Chinese use the same word. 00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:14.480 Yeah. 00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:17.440 But that that book, Ishii, is unique. 00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:21.200 It's on Amazon at the moment, and I'm going to be running print ones soon. 00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:21.440 Yeah. 00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:22.720 Cool. 00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:23.440 I love this. 00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:26.240 There may be mysterious victories. 00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:28.559 There are no mysterious failures. 00:28:28.960 --> 00:28:29.359 It's great. 00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:34.000 Yeah, so in the book I do case studies, and these are so this book is about personal excellence. 00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:40.799 My next book is about organizations, but I've used organizations as a as a pattern recognition device. 00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:47.359 So there's American apparel where the CEO just became the focus of attention and he burnt himself out. 00:28:47.759 --> 00:28:49.279 And there's two ships that sank. 00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:55.759 Uh HMS or Artemis, which was a submarine, and it sank in its moorings in 1971. 00:28:56.160 --> 00:29:02.400 And it's now mandatory reading for all captains of the Royal Navy because there was no one big catastrophe. 00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:04.000 It was lots of small things. 00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:09.759 And they all compounded together, and the boat just sank in the jassy, which was a bit embarrassing for the Navy. 00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:13.440 And yeah, and Kodak's in there. 00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:22.079 But it's a bit of a cliche with Kodak, but my my argument with Kodak is they the Kodak team perfected excellence and we're focusing so much on the wrong thing. 00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:24.000 And we're improving all the time. 00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:30.000 But missing, and so this is the decision governance, we're missing, and this is the drift that the world is changing. 00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:30.559 Yeah. 00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:33.920 So, and then Bonds are aviation, an Australian aviation company. 00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:36.640 Oh, I was just on page 162. 00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:40.319 You're gonna be like, I rated, I waited airplane. 00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:43.039 So tell us about Bonanza Aviation Armand Train. 00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:46.000 Yeah, so it's relatively recent, and it was all hit and a roar. 00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:53.200 It was regional airports in Australia, go gangbusters, but the the structure wasn't in place and the growth curve was too fast. 00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:57.119 And it basically never made any money and was bankrupt within a few years. 00:29:57.279 -->

00:29:57.440 Yeah. 00:29:57.759 --> 00:29:59.039 And HMS Artemis? 00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:00.400 HMS Artemis, yes. 00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:07.200 HMS Artemis is a move, a very famous movie about that. 00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:08.240 Probably, yeah. 00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:10.880 It was well, it was a famous uh case study in the Royal Navy. 00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:20.240 So if you're so my brother stayed in the Navy for 27 years and he said as a as an officer with a watch, it was a mandatory reading to read the government report on what went wrong. 00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:20.640 Yeah. 00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:22.400 Because yeah, they lost itself. 00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:22.960 Yeah. 00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:24.160 That's fascinating. 00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:29.599 So so you got made redundant from the from the Navy and stayed in for 27 years. 00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:30.799 That's amazing. 00:30:31.039 --> 00:30:33.519 Well, I really want to- Hang on, while I one laugh. 00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:35.200 I I've already said that one. 00:30:35.279 --> 00:30:36.720 You weren't listening to me. 00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:42.079 Review the old and know the new. 00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:43.440 Remember that. 00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:44.480 Love it. 00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:46.319 What is she really looks like? 00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:48.880 I think this is like I'm excited for you. 00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:54.960 I I think becoming a published author is such a such a um an amazing feat. 00:30:55.119 --> 00:31:00.880 Like putting your because you're sort of putting yourself out there as well to the world. 00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:05.519 I I was last night, yeah, last night I was sat reading my own book. 00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:11.759 And I was just I I said to my wife, I'm so proud of this. 00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:16.000 I think I'm more proud of the book than any and all of the Ironman races. 00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:18.000 It's something I've always wanted to do. 00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:25.839 And I think my advice to anybody well, firstly, I was saying I'm gonna write a book for years, and I became ashamed of it because I hadn't. 00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:26.240 Yeah. 00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:29.279 And there's a famous, I think it was the author of Catch 22. 00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:31.839 And somebody said, No, it was somebody else. 00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:33.920 I I'm I'm an author, I'm writing a book. 00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:37.920 And it could have been Oscar Wilde, he said, Neither am I. 00:31:38.799 --> 00:31:41.279 Because we all say we're gonna write a book, so I'm gonna bring a book. 00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:44.480 I would I use something called Lean Pup. 00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:48.160 And it's an online book publishing platform. 00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:59.519 And what you do is you couple a book together and publish it, and then people will buy it in its partial form, and then you update it regularly until it's at the point when you can go to print and it's been edited. 00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:06.480 So that's how I launched this book on Lean Pub on actually January the 9th this year, which was Quitter's Day this year. 00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:07.200 Yeah. 00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:09.759 And then I went to print in in June. 00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:18.880 And then my next book, Kette, which is the decision point for organizations, I'm going I intend to publish it on the first of September this year. 00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:19.680 Oh wow. 00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:21.440 But it won't be finished and it won't be edited. 00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:21.680 Yeah. 00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:28.079 Well, people can buy the advanced copy at a discounted price, then give me feedback on it, and then I can evolve it. 00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:28.720 Oh wow. 00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:32.480 Then I've got readers or I feel accountable to finish the damn thing as well. 00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:45.839 So I think Lean Pub is a and you just go to leanpub.com and you can buy this, and I've got Kaisen of the Day in there as well as my second book, which is a hundred small improvements which align to the issue spiral. 00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:46.480 Yeah. 00:32:46.720 --> 00:32:51.920 So it's a way of publishing prolifically without all of the overhead of having a publisher and an editor. 00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:53.279 And it means to publish. 00:32:53.839 --> 00:32:55.119 Maybe that's how I should write my book. 00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:01.680 Who will get the most out of it? 00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:09.759 High performing people who struggle to commit to one thing and see it through, or people who overcommit and burn out. 00:33:10.720 --> 00:33:11.039 Wow. 00:33:11.839 --> 00:33:14.880 Well, there's a lot of people out there that are gonna be buying this book. 00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:16.640 Will it be on Audible? 00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:18.400 It's I want it to be. 00:33:18.559 --> 00:33:21.839 I've got a voice, I've got a voice actor lined up and I need to talk to Amazon. 00:33:21.920 --> 00:33:24.079 It's it's hard in New Zealand and the tax or something. 00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:25.359 I need to reside in Australia. 00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:25.839 I don't know. 00:33:26.319 --> 00:33:28.240 I'm I'm definitely gonna have it on Spotify. 00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:35.279 And I'm actually read I'm reading excerpts of it on my own podcast at the moment, just the autobiographical sections, and you'll love this. 00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:39.519 The last one I did, which was on that failed the failed business. 00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:44.240 As I was recording it, a rooster walked past the room and started crowing. 00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:51.359 So I had to say sorry for the rooster, and I carried on regardless of publishing my podcast. 00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:53.359 So tell us about your podcast. 00:33:53.440 --> 00:33:55.519 How can people listen to or watch your podcast? 00:33:55.839 --> 00:33:56.160 Ishi. 00:33:57.119 --> 00:34:01.440 Ishi, just if you search ishy on Google, search my name, Google

AI is the thing. 00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:03.200 I've got a trademark for that as now as well. 00:34:03.440 --> 00:34:03.759 Cool. 00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:11.119 Um and and and I want to be that person who introduces the concept of intentionality and determined intent through Ishi. 00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:12.239 This is the first book. 00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:15.599 If you look on the spine, actually, can you see that little red mark on the spine? 00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:15.920 Yeah. 00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:16.480 I can. 00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:20.719 That is because when you stack all five books together, you'll see the issue spiral. 00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:22.400 Ah, so that's your intent. 00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:23.360 Yeah, very good. 00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:24.480 Oh, I like it. 00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:26.079 So this is my life now. 00:34:26.159 --> 00:34:27.199 I want to do this for the next one. 00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:29.599 You're gonna have all five books to match. 00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:30.880 That is super cool. 00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:32.000 I love that. 00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:34.960 And it starts, the intent starts with the first book. 00:34:35.199 --> 00:34:35.760 Very clever. 00:34:35.920 --> 00:34:37.039 Yeah, very clever. 00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:43.679 Ultimately, a leader's high performance person's book, a must-read. 00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:48.639 And if you feel like you're doing too much out there and wondering, this is the book to read. 00:34:48.800 --> 00:34:50.880 You should probably take some time and read. 00:34:51.119 --> 00:34:51.519 Thank you. 00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:52.079 Yeah, yeah. 00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:55.599 I want it on Warderball so I can listen to it in the car driving to work. 00:34:55.760 --> 00:34:57.840 I promise you, Simon, I'm gonna make that happen. 00:34:58.320 --> 00:34:59.119 Love it. 00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:01.199 I've got a card for you. 00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:03.440 You go, you can write it down on the card. 00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:07.360 Relax. 00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:08.000 Relax. 00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:11.840 I love that. 00:35:12.400 --> 00:35:14.400 He's practicing what he preaches, see? 00:35:14.719 --> 00:35:15.280 This is good. 00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:16.239 This is gold. 00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:17.440 What day is it today? 00:35:17.519 --> 00:35:19.039 It's the four-fifth today, isn't it? 00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:19.519 Yeah. 00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:20.960 I have no idea. 00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:29.920 Well, hopefully, we've had a few subscribers and people are giving us a like and sharing love, sharing the word about the Falking Good podcast. 00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:30.480 Yeah. 00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:32.239 Awesome having you on, Gareth. 00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:32.639 Thank you both. 00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:34.400 Thank you so much. 00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:38.000 You know, we've had this is the third episode with Gareth. 00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:40.000 And truly fantastic. 00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:42.079 And you're an inspiration with what you've done. 00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:42.719 Thank you. 00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:44.559 Really an inspiration. 00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:45.199 So thank you. 00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:47.760 And I'm sure we'll have to have you back on again at some stage. 00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:48.239 Yeah. 00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:48.960 We'd love to. 00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:49.360 Yeah. 00:35:49.840 --> 00:35:50.239 I love it. 00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:52.639 I'm got I've got some things I'm going to change. 00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:57.920 I've got some, I'm going to use that for my weight loss journey, like as my thing. 00:35:58.159 --> 00:35:59.039 Here's a thought. 00:35:59.280 --> 00:36:06.079 After you've both read the book, let's get together again and talk about how you could apply ISHI for your health journey. 00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:10.559 How you're going to set the intent, the deliberate practice, how you persist and how you reflect. 00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:14.159 And see how we can apply issue as a health coaching tool. 00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:17.280 Because I I use the issue, I use the issue spiral as a coaching tool. 00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:18.159 That'd be cool. 00:36:19.039 --> 00:36:22.000 Yeah, I'm looking forward to reading it because I'm doing the pre-cure course. 00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:23.199 Oh, of course, yeah. 00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:25.519 So yeah, pretty exciting. 00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:27.119 So thank you, Geth. 00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:27.440 Yeah. 00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:28.800 Really great. 00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:29.760 Great to meet you. 00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:31.119 Okay. 00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:33.280 Oh, thank you, Simon. 00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:37.760 And thank you guys for being our amazing listeners and followers. 00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:46.239 And hopefully now by the third episode, you're all out on your bikes listening to this podcast, especially training for Iron Man, because I hear you've got a lot of time. 00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:49.360 So there's a whole lot of episodes before this one you can listen to. 00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:52.239 And just again, where can people buy is she on Amazon? 00:36:52.719 --> 00:36:56.159 Amazon and lean pop and check out my Substack. 00:36:56.320 --> 00:36:57.519 And have you got a website? 00:36:57.679 --> 00:37:00.480 Uh yes, Kaisancoaching.co.nside. 00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:04.880 So we'll put a link below so that you can find Gareth easily. 00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:05.760 All right. 00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:06.400 Cool. 00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:06.960 Thank you. 00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:08.719 Take care, everybody.