התמלול המלא של Jasper – Action & Inclusion

a, a, a fair say in what's going on to manage those. Alex: Yeah. And, uh, what have you found helpful for yourself or your peers to help you cope with that anxiety about a, a potential disaster? Jasper: Well, I think for me, I really found that, um, in joining youth advisory groups, the opportunity to join the Centre for Excellence for Young People and Disasters came up. Jasper: I was like, "Wow, this is a space I'd really love to get into, I'm really interested in." Um, and getting the opportunity to meet other passionate young people, build my own skill set for the future, um, and become immersed in that space was a really fantastic opportunity, um, to kind of alleviate some of that stress I felt. Jasper: Um, the other thing I found was getting involved in politics, which may sound a bit counterintuitive- ... 'cause politics is talked about as this kind of, uh, place of, um... Oh, it's ta- talked about with quite a lot of negativity sometimes. Alex: Mm-hmm. Jasper: Um, I'd kind of always been interested in the political world, um, and kind of engaged with the news. But joining a couple of c- local campaigns, um, supporting a candidate I felt represented my views and was also open to hearing from young people on climate and disasters, um, and wanting to support positive climate- climate initiatives, um, and support disaster resilience in our emergency services. Um, I found that as a really positive experience, showing there are people willing to, out there willing to work for young people and young people's interests. Alex: It’s great that you have that experience. Can you vote yet, or not quite yet? Jasper: No. So that was the other thing. I was probably, I was 14 when I started doing that. Um, since then I've done, I've helped campaigns on two federal elections, one state election, but not been able to vote myself. Alex: And a- another theme that you said resonated with you is around hope. Uh, obviously, you know, we, um, there's plenty in the news about climate change and impacts of disasters and other world events Jasper: Mm ... Alex: that, um, are impacting us no matter where we are. What have you found helpful to, um, kind of keep a sense of hope for the future, to stay motivated, to keep going for- Jasper: Mm ... Alex: a better future? Jasper: I think firstly it's engaging with like-minded people I find is a really hopeful, um, practice. Um, and- I think alongside that, making, taking care of myself, making sure that I'm not doom scrolling, um, that I'm not going on news websites. And unfortunately, the news likes to feed us bad news stories, um, and I've found myself needing to just take a break, disconnect from them, 'cause it is a lot, um, and a lot of negativity in the world. Jasper: But I think it's also important to focus on the positivity in the world. We have all these new innovations, um, coming through which, uh, provide a reason for hope in our future. Um, yeah, I think just taking the time, doing things I love, spending time in the forest and, um, seeing the beauty is my real motivator of I want to protect this place. I wanna live, um yeah, the beauty of the Dandenongs in the future. Alex: Yeah. Jasper: And community as well, I feel is a real important part of that, is staying connected to wh- we've got a really strong community up in the Dandenongs. Um, and you pretty much, you'll go to the local IGA, you'll know, uh, at least a couple of people in there. Um, and s- just staying, uh, engaged in community activ- uh, community events, um, yeah, I find that is also s- uh, something really important. Alex: Yeah, community that, that, i- I'm glad you raised that 'cause are there kind of examples from your community that make you feel like as a community, we've got this- Jasper: Yeah Alex: ... or we're as prepared as we can be? Jasper: Well, I think it was really after the 2021, um, June storm that really hit hard in our community. It was really quite unprecedented. Um, and people in the Dandenongs have lived there for generations and generations, and no one had experienced something as severe as that before. But really, amidst the devastation of it, was real little, well, not even glimmers, but a overwhelming sense of, um, collectivity. Jasper: People went out day after with their chainsaws, my whole road came together to clear the street. Um, people were gathering supplies and bringing them to the local footy club, and you can go there, have a hot drink, pick up some candles or torches, whatever you need, um, and just have people with a smile on their face willing to welcome you. Jasper: Um, so just o- real kindness and generosity that's in the community. I think's amazing. Alex: Yeah. And what, um, role did you see young people like yourself play, or what do, what do you think they could've been doing? Jasper: Yeah. Um, unfortunately, um, young people were kind of a bit subject to the chaos. Um, there was quite a lot of projects that came after that didn't necessarily, um, ask young people what they needed. Jasper: I think it's really important that we're asking young people, "What do you see that you need in this moment to make you feel more secure and safe?" Um, rather than saying, "We believe this is going to help you, so go and do this." Um, and I think a lot of young people after the event felt all s- kind of sense of normality, um, fall away 'cause it really was out of the blue. Jasper: And I think it was the, um, compounding effect of the storm on top of COVID-19. It happened, I think, the day we were coming out of a lockdown. Young people already felt quite a severe sense of isolation from COVID. Um, yeah. Alex: Yeah, I think it's important to, yeah, put, um, that disaster event alongside COVID. And what contributions do you think young people can have around preparing for a disaster so we then recover- Jasper: Yeah Alex: better afterwards? Jasper: Well, I think it would be wonderful, um, before a disaster

even occurs, to have young people embedded in the decision-making processes, um, that go into planning for, um, these events. Um, I think having those opportunities really, one, it's giving them, giving young people agency so they feel a sense of hope, but also making sure that in those moments they feel like, um, what's going on has been t- is being done with young people in mind, um, and with the sensitivity of that, um disproportionate effect that it's likely to have on young people and their mental health. Alex: Yeah. And you mentioned earlier, uh, social media and doom scrolling. What role does that play or, or what role do you think social media can play, good or bad around disaster? Jasper: Yeah. I think firstly, the positives of social media is it provides all young- well, I don't wanna say all, but a majority of young people are engaged with social media. Jasper: Um, and it provides a great tool to use to get, um, for outreach programs, young people, um, potentially for recover, uh, recovery. Also, to communicate during these events what's going on, 'cause sometimes you're not told, um, what's actually happening, um, which does make you feel powerless in the situation. One thing, a lot of things that come out of social media can be quite negative, um, in terms of news stories around disasters, um, and climate change. Jasper: Um, there's not a lot of good news, um, 'cause of course, a lot of news, I, I get quite a lot of my news from social media. Um, it's great seeing when you're going through your feed sometimes, uh, news agency will have good news stories of this week. I always love seeing those, but unfortunately, they're a bit of a diamond in the rough. Jasper: Um, yeah, 'cause it definitely does contribute to s- it can contribute to the anxiety young people feel and I feel. Alex: So you sometimes kind of limit, uh, some of what you're reading or- Jasper: Yeah, yeah Alex: ... look for a balance of some of the good news in there as, as well. Thinking about, um, other people in community, older adults, or people in leadership positions, what would you wanna encourage them to be doing or saying, uh, to help young people who have experienced a disaster or are worried about disaster? Jasper: Well, I think first go with, uh, go with empathy. Um, like Atlas, the young people of this, um, uh, this generation has to carry the world on their shoulders, um, and all the issues that go along with it. So understand that, uh, it can be quite a lot to feel like you're faced with climate change, with, um, just a global, global insecurity. Jasper: Um, so really disaster can, um, make th- things feel like they're spiralling a bit. Um, and really don't interrogate young person's experience. Really be validating, s- um, validating. Ensure that they have- are safe, they're feeling safe in that environment, um, to discuss their experiences, um, during a disaster. Jasper: Don't expect them to trauma dump, um, without those kind of s- uh, safe

practices in place. Yeah, and I think the other thing is just recognize young people. Um, we're not a monolith. We're all gonna have different experiences of things. We are a diverse range of people. Um, so don't expect the experience of one, one person, perspective of one young person to be the same as another person. Yeah. Alex: I think they're really important, uh, messages for people to have in mind. Thank you very much, uh, for sharing those. Um, I know one of the things that has come up a bit in the discussion is that kind of worry about the future and worry about climate change or, or future disasters. Only if you're willing to share, what... Alex: When you're feeling anxious or starting to feel overwhelmed, what are some of the things that you do to, to help manage that or to help calm or help cope? Jasper: Yeah, I think, um, one thing I do is talking about it. I like... The way I process things is talking. So I'll generally talk to my mum. Um, I find that really helps me, uh, think things through. Um, and just taking time as well to myself, um, to spend kind of going, thinking things through. Um, I like to go to my safe space. I love going out into the forest and, um, going for a walk and listening to the lyrebirds. I find that kind of, um, peace helps me. Yeah. Alex: Yeah. Lovely. Is there anything you would like to ask, uh, me about this topic or, well, anything? Jasper: Yeah. Um, I was actually wanting to ask, talking to other young people, to, uh, my friends, my peers, there's, from what I've observed, there's a growing demographic of young people feeling quite a lot of apathy towards climate change. Um, and I was just wondering, what do you reckon is feeding into that? Is it maybe they consider other issues to be more important? Jasper: Um, is it a feeling of inevitability around climate? I was just wondering what your observations around that is. Alex: Oh, that's such a good question for me. And I think, um, one of the, I guess, more general observations I have had working with communities impacted by a disaster, particularly, um, in the world now of, um, compounding or multiple disasters, I do hear a bit more about, um, a sense of hopelessness and helplessness. Alex: Mm. Um, I don't know specifically in young people, but I can imagine feeling a sense of hopelessness and helplessness Jasper: Mm Alex: ... would lead, uh, to that sense of apathy as well. Not quite sure. Not knowing what they can do themselves to, um, prepare or to change the course of, of the future. And if you can have enough hope to motivate you to engage with community, to try and advocate for change, um, that's probably what works against apathy. That's just my Jasper: Yeah Alex:... thoughts. I don't know what your thoughts are on it. Jasper: I definitely agree, and I think for me, that feeling of helplessness was counteracted by getting involved and feeling that sense of agency. I completely, yeah, agree with what you're saying. And I think

it's important that we create those pathways for young people. Jasper: Um, yeah, and just be kind to each other, support each other. It's a collective effort. Um, we don't need to, um, carry everything on one sh- um, on one person's shoulders. We can share it and distribute it. Um, yeah. Alex: 100%. Actually, this is a question that I'm glad you're prompting me to ask. Uh, you know, there is a lot of discussion and well-intentioned people be, "Yeah, we need to involve community. We need to involve young people in decision-making." All of these things that you're saying are important. From your experience, have you noticed the difference between kind of genuine engagement with young people and an engagement that feels more token? Jasper: Yeah, definitely, and I think, uh, unfortunately, it's what we see, uh, from the people most, um, with some of the most power. Uh, where, for example, politicians who shake the hand of a young person, one side congratulating them from the being involved, being engaged, and then go with the other hand, sign away their futures for another coal and gas project. Alex: Mm. Jasper: And unfortunately, we do have a bit of that tokenism embedded within, um, government systems. Alex: What would help engagement feel more genuine? How, how does it feel when it is genuine? Jasper: Yeah, I think- Alex: What's the good version look like? Jasper: I think first, um, the sharing of power, I think, where you've got a direct, young people have a direct way to influence decision-making, um, and are paid for those, for their e- expertise. Jasper: Um, or not necessarily expertise, but experience. Um, and sees that reflected in policy and in actions rather than just yap. I think, uh, if, um, decision-makers, leaders go into it expecting young people are, are just gonna learn off that one, off you, um, it doesn't feel meaningful. I think there needs to be the reciprocal of it, where that leader takes, um, the experience and perspective of the young person and applies that, um, as well. Alex: Yeah, I think that's really important. Sarah: So in your discussion with Jasper, Alex, um, he mentioned, um, climate anxiety, um, which I think is a really important topic to, um, discuss further. How would, um, we help young people maintain hope when the future feels really uncertain or overwhelming, um, in the context of climate anxiety? Alex: Yeah, and Jasper's certainly not alone to be feeling climate anxiety. We know that that is a big concern for a lot of young people, or a lot of people full stop. And in terms of the things that, uh, are probably going to be helpful for climate anxiety are some of the things that Jasper described himself, and that is, you know, he's very involved in his community. He, um, has found people that share values and a sense of social justice, uh, so he's been really active in that. Alex: Uh, I think he has spoken a lot about inclusion, and I think that is something that helps with a sense of connection, which I think is really important, um, to counter that feeling of climate anxiety, so you feel like there are other people doing good things, uh, to help with this. I think being kind of active in the hope that you're holding, so being realistic. Alex: And I think another thing Jasper touched on was just being mindful of the media that he was looking at. Uh, so trying to, to limit some of the doom scrolling and the never-ending, um, bad news. Just getting the information that you need to be informed, uh, but then kind of trying to respond to that in a way that is active and, um, is trying to make a change I think Jasper found really helpful. Sarah: Yeah, and such, um, a valid point on the, um, unfortunate rabbit holes that you can fall into on social media, um, platforms such as those. Um, I know myself, um, as, like, a filmmaker, coming from that perspective, um, it can feel really easy to be overwhelmed by, I guess, all the noise out there. So Alex, how can young people move from wanting to take action to actually feeling empowered to do so? Alex: Yeah, like with a lot of things, it's probably a bit easier said than done, isn't it? And I think, uh, finding other people who, um, have similar lived experiences, share the same passions, uh, you know, and kind of getting the energy from each other in order to take action. I also think, you know, take an act- taking action doesn't need to be a big thing. Alex: Uh, I think that's really important. Could be, uh, writing the letter. It could be being really active at your school or in your s- sports club or looking what change you can make within, um, your university, whatever it is that you're doing. So I think just realizing that, you know, all of those small steps do add up, um, and create meaningful change. Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. So reflecting on this discussion today as a whole, Alex, um, what would you say are your key takeaways from your talk with Jasper? Alex: I think what I took from Jasper is h- how well he's been able to straddle both looking after himself in the present, but also being really proactive and active in trying to change the future and not letting kind of one overwhelm the other. Alex: So he spoke about, um, you know, his connection to nature, um, how important it is to, you know, take breaks from activism to, um, make sure you're looking after yourself. But also, you know, he has found people and groups and, and like-minded, like-minded community members that he, he gets a real sense of meaning out of advocating, um, with them and, and having that sense of collective action. Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so very much, Alex, for sharing your thoughts today. Liz: If anything we discussed in today's episode raised issues for you, please reach out to someone you trust and seek support. One resource we're sharing in every episode is eheadspace. This is a free confidential service for young people across Australia with support available online, by email, or on the phone with a mental health clinician or peer worker. Liz: Go to headspace.org.au. As today's episode talks about experiences of disaster and climate change, it could bring up feelings about climate change or environmental stress. The Climate Superpowers website aims to support children and young people as they share their wisdom and creativity in dealing with the effects of climate change. Liz: Created with and for young people, it has quizzes, resources, and a chance to share your story. For more information, go to climatesuperpowers.org and explore. You will find all the support resources available in the show notes. Liz: The Finding Steady Ground podcast was brought to you by the Centre of Excellence, Young People and Disasters and Phoenix Australia. This podcast was recorded on the lands of the Wurundjeri and Boon Wurrung peoples of the Kulin Nation. This episode was hosted by Alex Howard and Sarah Herzina. Liz: Pre-production and research was by Phoebe Michetti, Jessica Standish and Dr David Pedder. Editing and production were by Liz Keen from Headline Productions. Funding for the Centre of Excellence: Young People & Disasters was provided by the Australian Government.