התמלול המלא של People Pleasing, Boundaries & Why Women Lose Themselves in Midlife | Jen Maxwell

us are seeking on this in this lifetime. 00:02:31.599 --> 00:02:37.039 We're seeking, seeking, seeking for answers and and new um skills and new techniques. 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:43.840 And actually, what we find is when we really dig down deep, when we come back to it, it's already within us. 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:51.360 So I guess if there was one word that consolidated all of that, it would be that in all of this, we're remembering. 00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:55.360 We're remembering who we were before everybody else told us how to be. 00:02:55.599 --> 00:02:57.439 Oh my god, I love that. 00:02:57.680 --> 00:02:59.919 It's almost like a slowing down as well, isn't it? 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:03.280 Like really giving yourself that chance to to reconnect. 00:03:03.439 --> 00:03:05.599 How did you how did you land on that? 00:03:05.919 --> 00:03:10.960 So this last how many years has been a bit of a journey. 00:03:11.039 --> 00:03:12.560 I mean, life's a whole journey, isn't it? 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:28.960 But I think particularly in the last few years, I have really noticed where I've been suppressed or uh conditioned or restricted by others, and it's frustrated the hell out of me. 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:39.759 And I think heading into perimenopause, I'm perimenopausal now, um, I really noticed where I was changing. 00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:53.680 I noticed that where I would have been people pleasing in the past, suddenly I had a voice, and where I would have been um sorting out everybody else's needs before my own, suddenly I was able to be a little bit more selfful and do things for myself. 00:03:54.000 --> 00:04:14.560 And on this journey, I really realized how I had been squashed into systems, I had been made to uh fall into societal expectations and not only in the way that I behaved, but almost in the way that I was thinking and the way that I was also parenting and all of these things. 00:04:14.719 --> 00:04:34.000 So it prompted me to take a really good look at who I was, uh, who I wanted to be, and and uh to really step into self-sovereignty rather than being uh told what to do all the time, which I think I have a little bit of a rebellious streak in me. 00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:35.439 Yeah, I love that. 00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:42.800 And I guess that's um like you were saying, where things kept h things were happening and you kept feeling really frustrated. 00:04:42.879 --> 00:04:44.959 I think that's always a good point, isn't it? 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:47.600 To really slow down and lean into that. 00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:48.720 It's like, what is that? 00:04:48.879 --> 00:04:59.199 What is that trying to tell you that there's a message and there's a there's something in there for you, and normally we just kind of brush it off and think, oh god fuck's sake, blah blah blah. 00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:03.519 And then actually, when we really lean into it, there's so much goodness there for us, isn't there? 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:04.240 To learn. 00:05:04.480 --> 00:05:05.040 Absolutely. 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:16.079 And one of the key things I think that I've learned is to really listen to my body, so to listen to my nervous system, to notice when I'm getting dysregulated, to know how to come back to regulation. 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:21.600 Um, and also noticing when I'm feeling things in my body. 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:23.279 So, where do I feel anxiety? 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:25.040 You know, where do I feel pressure? 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:25.759 Where do I feel? 00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:30.800 I know I feel like, for example, I know I really feel responsibility and I feel that really strongly in my shoulder. 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:32.879 Often get a pain in my shoulder. 00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:48.480 So our body really knows the score, and I've learned to really come back to myself, to reconnect with myself, to and to trust myself, to trust my body, to trust my intuition and to trust what's already within me. 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:54.720 I I don't know why, but my right ankle is where I seem to store a lot of grief. 00:05:54.879 --> 00:06:01.199 And anything that comes up, any if I kind of body scan or whatever, I'm like, oh yep, there you are. 00:06:01.279 --> 00:06:05.199 And it always like it's like a magnet, like a heat seeker, and I'm like, why? 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:06.639 Why in the ankle? 00:06:06.879 --> 00:06:11.439 But I feel like it's something about that's also about momentum and movement, right? 00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:17.759 So like when you're walking, like it gives you action, and actually sometimes it can hold you back, it stops you, it slows you down. 00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:28.000 I also love your your part about society and being squashed into being squashed into boxes that we um that we don't need to be in. 00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:30.000 Can you tell us a little bit more about that? 00:06:30.399 --> 00:06:39.360 Yeah, so I followed the expected, well, not quite, but I've sort of followed the expected path that one takes when you know you're a teenager. 00:06:39.519 --> 00:06:40.720 So I went to university. 00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:42.720 I did go to a slightly diverse university. 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:47.439 I went and did an outdoor studies degree, which is a bit different, and spent three years getting very drunk and climbing lots. 00:06:47.519 --> 00:06:51.040 But apart from that, it was a great, it's a great few years. 00:06:51.199 --> 00:06:52.800 Um, I followed expectations. 00:06:52.879 --> 00:06:59.519 So I ended up working for the public service and the civil service, I was in the army, and I was very much squashed into those systems. 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:05.040 Now, to be fair, I loved it, you know, I loved the army, absolutely loved it. 00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:12.240 Um, and and I and I was okay with the systems that were struck the structures around the other work that I did. 00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:22.079 But what I realized was that after many

years of that, it really wore me down and it stopped me being who I was. 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:30.399 And so in 2019, I started my own part-time business, and then in 2022 I went full-time doing that myself. 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:45.600 And what I realized was when I had my last day at work, I kind of had a bit of a meltdown because I realized how much pressure I'd been under from squashing myself in this box and behaving how I ought to behave. 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:48.399 And it was an absolute revelation. 00:07:48.560 --> 00:07:52.720 It was like my my wings had been unfolding and I could finally fly. 00:07:52.879 --> 00:07:56.319 I could finally, you know, spread my wings and start flapping them. 00:07:57.519 --> 00:08:08.160 Um, and really beginning to undercover who I was because what I realized was whilst I was in those systems, I'd forgotten who I was because I'd been so entrenched in them. 00:08:08.319 --> 00:08:17.040 And and I think anybody that's a parent as well, often you get really stuck into the mummy, the mummy phase of life, which is beautiful and wonderful, but you kind of forget who you are. 00:08:17.199 --> 00:08:20.720 So it was almost like I had a rediscovering of who the fuck am I? 00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:22.639 And also who do I want to be? 00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:24.399 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:24.959 I love that. 00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:33.360 I kind of see that point as like breaking out of the box, and it's like, oh my god, I actually do have shoulders, I have arms, I've got legs, I can I can move that. 00:08:33.679 --> 00:08:38.320 But I guess as well as that point, isn't there about critical thinking? 00:08:38.559 --> 00:08:49.440 And when you're, I guess also like the army, it's very much like you that you don't have to necessarily maybe think so much, it's more about top-down, this is what you will do. 00:08:49.600 --> 00:09:00.080 And I guess when you're in a when you're in a job in any kind of situation like that, you I don't want to say lemming, but almost like you become that lem, it's like a herd mentality, isn't it? 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:04.720 Like you just go uh go along because that's what you do. 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:05.600 Absolutely. 00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:11.759 And in the army, you're trained to to obey orders because that's the way the army functions, otherwise it wouldn't work. 00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:13.440 Yeah, absolutely. 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:24.879 But I like to think of these things as they're they're stepping stones to taking us to where we are meant to be ultimately, and it's like you need those experiences to get you where you're going. 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:41.360 And I think just going back to what you said at the beginning about that remembering as your as your kind of word, it's like actually remembering that our soul chose this body, our soul chose this life, and our soul chose to experience what's going on here. 00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:49.840 And I think we sometimes forget that, and it's remembering to keep coming back to that point of like, what was it that our soul was coming to do? 00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:53.679 And I guess remembering plays that part into it, right? 00:09:54.159 --> 00:09:59.840 Yeah, absolutely, and I think we all have so many different transitions through life and so many different points of healing. 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:18.080 So it might be, for example, I know that a lot of my learning has been to um to really shift my mentality from being small to being visible to being bright and not being squashed or or um afraid to show who I am. 00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:22.639 And I know that I've also had, you know, lots of oh god, so many learnings. 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:37.200 I couldn't even begin to describe them all, but you know, life's such a journey, and it's so interesting how we have often have these really difficult things to overcome, which then uh almost um like give us momentum to move into the next thing. 00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:40.240 And it can be a phase of healing, it can be a phase of learning. 00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:49.519 But I know that if I look back over my life and all the different stages that it's taken, I've learned and grown from each and every one of them, even when those times are really difficult. 00:10:49.919 --> 00:10:50.159 Yeah. 00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:51.519 Yeah, and I guess that's it. 00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:58.639 That pain is never supposed to be, no emotion is supposed to be permanent, it's a cycle, it's a sta. 00:10:59.039 --> 00:11:06.639 And when you allow and you yeah, when you allow and you kind of immerse yourself, you can move on and you move, you move through it. 00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:08.799 And that's the the rebirth almost, isn't it? 00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:12.399 It's like that's the growth and that's where the juiciness is. 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:22.399 Like it might not feel like it at the time, but ultimately you always move forwards from periods of pain, like that growth, that learning. 00:11:23.759 --> 00:11:24.960 I love that word juicy. 00:11:25.039 --> 00:11:41.279 I think juiciness really describes it because once we once we've experienced something that's that's really difficult, um, and and actually we can turn towards it and be with it, and just be with that difficulty, what we find is that there is beauty in the difficulty and there's beauty in the joy as well. 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:51.440 So it's almost having that perspective of that, having the understanding that there's a full perspective of of spectrums in our life and we're always going to pendulate between them. 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:59.360 And actually, can we take delight in being present in all of them and from one really appreciate the other? 00:11:59.679 --> 00:12:01.039 Yeah, absolutely. 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:13.440 And also really embracing, which sounds hard and possibly ridiculous to say, but embracing those difficult times because when we allow

emotion to process, that's all it's looking for, right? 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:17.600 It's just looking for emotion, feeling, action in motion. 00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:21.519 It will process and move on if we if we allow it. 00:12:21.759 --> 00:12:27.840 And yeah, I think sometimes there's that fear, isn't there, of pain and like what we can hold and what we can bear. 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:29.279 Yeah. 00:12:29.519 --> 00:12:36.080 And one of the things I've learned in this last few years in particular is how to allow that emotion to move through me. 00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:43.840 You know, whether that's through movement, whether that's through dancing, maybe it's through whacking a pillow or screaming into a pillow. 00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:50.960 But one of the things that I know in my past that I've suppressed is like I'm not allowed to feel angry, I'm not allowed to show emotion. 00:12:51.039 --> 00:12:53.840 And that's I think that's a really big thing for women when we're younger. 00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:56.320 You know, we're told we don't make a fuss, just be quiet. 00:12:56.480 --> 00:12:57.519 Yeah, yeah, just be good. 00:12:57.840 --> 00:12:58.240 Exactly. 00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:14.159 And so I've had fucking years of that sort of all suppressed in me, and I've had so much joy in the last I don't know how many years, but learning how to release that through breath work, through tantric practices, through just dancing in the morning, through shaking my body. 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:18.320 And what's been your favorite? 00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:30.240 Um, I really love using uh movement and dance to and music to shift my energy because I think it can be it can work in so many different ways. 00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:37.120 You can really um uh awaken yourself and shake it out with a really rocking song. 00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:41.519 Or actually, if you need to soothe yourself, you can actually take that moment to self-soothe with that as well. 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:43.200 So I think that's really powerful. 00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:50.799 I think one of the biggest ones that I have loved so much is um is to actually lie down on the floor and have a tantrum. 00:13:51.120 --> 00:14:01.360 So you know, when you're like you see a little person in the supermarket and they're there and they're lying down and they're hammering their fists and their feet, give yourself permission to do that and it really helps the energy to move through you. 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:10.960 So if you're feeling angry or cross or frustrated or anything like that, just have a lie down, have a good yell and a good kick, and it makes you feel so much better. 00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:24.720 Yeah, it's making you think of what was there was an advert, wasn't there, years ago where the the little toddler was having a tantrum and then she did the mother, uh she just got on the floor and she started having a tantrum, and the kid's like, what the fuck are you doing? 00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:26.240 I remember that. 00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:27.600 Yeah, it is, isn't it? 00:14:27.679 --> 00:14:59.200 It's like I think there's there's also when you scream or when you have such energetic uh kind of outwards motion, there's the soothingness like when you connect to your vagus nerve and things like this, like it just I think the first time I did that, I I was shocked by the noise that came out of me because it'd been so long back to being a seven-year-old girl in the playground, like just screaming with delight, that it was just like, oh my god, you just don't do these things anymore, do you? 00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:01.360 But it's so empowering to do that. 00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:04.240 Absolutely, and it's giving yourself permission to do it. 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:10.559 It's not something that even occurred to me until a few years ago that as an adult I had permission to do. 00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:12.960 And who was the one who was giving me permission? 00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:13.759 Myself. 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:17.360 Yes, you know, it goes back to that point of severity that you were saying. 00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:25.679 It's like standing firm in the standing in your life, not in control, but is standing in that sovereign of who you are. 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:27.200 Yeah, absolutely. 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:29.440 And I think that's where that reconnection comes in. 00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:31.759 It's a reconnecting to who who am I? 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:39.519 Who is this person who or who who was this person before she was molded by all of these different systems and and people? 00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:43.919 And actually, what's her true essence and and how does she want to show up in the world? 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:55.440 And so, from that space, from that reconnection, you can then step into that that sovereignty, that self-sovereignty of going, no, this is how I am, this is who I am, and I'm not changing for anybody else. 00:15:55.519 --> 00:15:58.480 I think that's one of the key things that I've really valued in that. 00:15:58.720 --> 00:15:59.840 Yeah, I love that. 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:09.039 I call it the filing cabinet of shit, and it's like how over our life, it just keeps storing all of these files, and we don't remember most of them. 00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:15.279 And yeah, it comes to it and it'll and it just pulls out something that's not even conscious to us anymore. 00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:24.080 But it's from decades then, like right back to even before birth, remembering I don't, but cellularly I remember. 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:30.639 And it doesn't tell us it's like who we are today, and that's that's what it's about, right? 00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:36.799 Claiming, reclaiming who you are today, not six months, one, five, ten, fifteen years ago. 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:38.399 Where are you right now? 00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:40.480 And what are those things that matter to you? 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:45.679

Absolutely, and trusting that you're exactly where you're meant to be, and also that there's nothing wrong. 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:49.120 You know, often we can give ourselves so much judgment, we don't need fixing. 00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:54.799 We're a perfectly, beautifully messy human being with a full spectrum of emotions. 00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:57.600 Yeah, and you know, that's part of the beauty of human life. 00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:17.200 Yeah, and I think that's a really good point as well, Jen, because I think where the where the wellness industry somehow as a total has got to, it's really around like just that constant fixing that there's a next hack, there's another framework, there's another thing to do, and there's something more, and it just keeps you constantly on the hook, searching, searching, searching. 00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:26.079 And actually, as you said at the beginning, it's about that remembering, coming back to yourself and connecting because all of our wisdom is within us already. 00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:27.519 We know it, it's already here. 00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:34.400 And if you hadn't learned that, that remembering, that sovereignty, where do you think you'd still be? 00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:48.480 I'd probably be scaling the ladder of the civil service and the army and um probably still being squashed in those boxes, not being my true self or or who I have the potential to be. 00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:51.680 And that's not to say that the jobs I was doing weren't important. 00:17:51.839 --> 00:18:00.640 You know, I was I was doing some really good roles and I was good at my job, but I knew that I had more to offer to the world than fitting into a box. 00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:06.880 Thinking about remembering and sovereignty, how do you how do you live that every day? 00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:10.640 And what do you do when things feel impossible? 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:12.480 Good question. 00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:21.519 And I think um anybody who is perimenopausal will recognize that some days are great and some days are really difficult. 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:33.039 So um I think my my tools about about that and self-sovereignty is I have a morning practice where I just I sit down and I connect with myself and I just ask myself, how am I today? 00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:35.440 And whatever's there, I'm just present with it. 00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:48.000 So maybe I'm feeling, oh fuck, I'm really tired, or maybe I've woken up full of beans, or maybe actually I'm a bit depressed this morning, or maybe I woke up and I feel really glad that I'm alive. 00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:51.519 You know, there's a there's a real range of feelings we can experience for me anyway. 00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:57.119 It's different every day, and so it's just sitting with that and allowing it to be there, knowing that there's nothing wrong. 00:18:57.440 --> 00:19:02.160 And then um, I don't know if there is something that I feel like I need to sit with a little bit longer. 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:04.319 There's a lovely practice called the rain practice. 00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:05.920 I don't know if you've ever come across that. 00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:08.880 It's a Tara Brac practice, uh, mindfulness practice. 00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:13.920 I used to teach mindfulness for many years, and it's about allowing yourself to be with your emotions. 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:21.759 So you recognize, you allow them to come in, you give them some intimate attention, and then you recognize that they're not gonna be there forever. 00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:22.880 They're not gonna be there. 00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:27.519 Like you said before, they're in transition, they're maybe just here for a little while and they're gonna move on at some point. 00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:38.079 So even just sitting with them, allowing them to be there can can either magnify the joy in them, or it can allow the difficult feelings to go, okay, I'm just gonna be with you, nothing wrong. 00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:40.079 And and they feel less intense. 00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:40.960 Yeah. 00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:42.079 I love that. 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:43.200 I'm gonna look that up, right? 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:44.400 And who was that with? 00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:44.880 Tara? 00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:46.240 Tara Bracht. 00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:48.160 She's a um, yeah. 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:55.039 Uh so um yeah, it it comes uh really beautifully together with a a poem called Rumi. 00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:58.079 Sorry, a poem by Rumi called The Guest House. 00:19:58.240 --> 00:19:59.839 I don't know if anybody's come across that. 00:19:59.920 --> 00:20:08.000 That's a beautiful one, which is where uh we recognise that all of these emotions are a are just guests in our guest house and they're gonna move on at some point. 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:08.559 Yeah. 00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:09.839 Oh, I love that. 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:14.160 I will search that and put it in the notes if anybody is interested in. 00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:16.880 I have a I actually have a recording of it that I've done. 00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:18.480 So you're very welcome to put that in there. 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:19.680 Yeah, perfect, sure. 00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:27.599 And I can um add it to the Yeah, there is that real sort of point about things being transitional, nothing is permanent. 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:38.000 And when allowing, when being, that things can just keep, can't things can just move forwards and transition to where they need to go, where it needs to be. 00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:39.920 And sometimes it's just a message, right? 00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:48.000 Something to, hey, this is going on, maybe pay some attention here, nothing to worry about, have have a little thought. 00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:49.920 Yeah, for sure, for sure. 00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:53.680 But how do I how do I step into that self-sovereignty side of things too? 00:20:54.160 -->

00:20:59.680 So, one of the things there is to really check in with what do I want and what is what feels right for me. 00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:07.039 So I know in the past I've had some very strong people-pleasing tendencies, which what now I now understand is come from ADHD. 00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:14.400 So I'm just going through an ADHD diagnosis at the moment, which is often linked to peromenopause as well and the shift in hormones. 00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:20.079 But what I um what I do is I really check in with am I doing something for me? 00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:21.839 Is this is this for me? 00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:23.519 Is it for somebody else? 00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:28.640 Am I doing this because I feel I ought to be doing it, or am I doing it because I want to be doing it? 00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:30.000 And that makes a big difference. 00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:31.920 And am I doing it because I have responsibility? 00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:35.680 You know, I have children, I have to go to work, I have to, you know, all of these things. 00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:48.480 But one of the things I do is I check in with myself in terms of that self sovereignty to find out if I'm if I'm standing in alignment with myself, and that's that's been a really powerful practice for me over the last few years. 00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:57.599 And within that as well, there's a slowing down, isn't there, to allow whatever it is to come through and not giving yourself that pause. 00:21:57.759 --> 00:21:59.759 So instead of reacting and charging. 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:03.519 Ahead, as you know, as you know, you maybe would have done. 00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:05.759 It's like, okay, what is it that I want to do? 00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:07.119 How do I want to respond? 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:08.400 How do I want to show up? 00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:12.400 It gives you the option to choose which way you're going. 00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:14.160 Like, am I going here or am I going there? 00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:15.599 What is it that I want out of this? 00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:16.640 Yeah, absolutely. 00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:22.400 One of the key uh learnings that I've had or teachings uh around that has been through Betty Martin's Wheel of Consent. 00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:24.160 I don't know if you've come across that before. 00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:34.079 Yeah, so this is one of the um tools that I learned first of all when I began to explore tantra because it's really important to explore consent and boundaries. 00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:39.599 And so this is understanding whether something is for you or if it's of somebody else. 00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:43.920 Are you giving or are you receiving? 00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:47.119 And is somebody taking from you or are they giving back to you? 00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:56.079 So it's around it's on this we this uh wheel uh spectrum, and and that was so powerful, you know, just to really check in who's this for? 00:22:56.319 --> 00:22:57.119 Is

this for me? 00:22:57.359 --> 00:22:58.240 Am I doing it for me? 00:22:58.480 --> 00:22:59.680 Am I doing it for somebody else? 00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:03.440 And that helps us to again really reconnect with that self-sovereignty. 00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:18.400 Yeah, I feel like I'm just saying, I love that, but yeah, I do love that, and it really can quite quickly bring to your senses that that point of what what not what am I getting from this, but somehow what am I getting from this? 00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:22.480 Is it uh is it transactional or is there a depth to it? 00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:24.160 The what's the polarity? 00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:27.119 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:29.200 Great. 00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:38.079 And what was the what was the hardest point of putting those practices into place and finding that consistency? 00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:39.599 Does that matter? 00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:40.880 Hmm. 00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:55.759 I think overcoming the tendency to people please, recognizing when I was doing it, and then being strong enough to not do it, to recognize it and go, okay, I'm gonna have to be really brave here for me and say, no, I'm not doing that. 00:23:55.839 --> 00:24:01.440 And I've had to learn to say no, which again is something that was always really difficult for me. 00:24:01.599 --> 00:24:06.720 I was always a yes person, and if I couldn't do it right then, it'd be like I can't do it right now, but I'm gonna find a way. 00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:23.519 So, what this has helped me do is actually learn, learn to use my no, learn that no is a full sentence, I don't have to justify my no, and to actually almost enjoy saying no, because when you say no to somebody, you're saying yes to yourself. 00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:29.440 And when you're saying no to somebody else, they know your boundaries, and that's a really important thing. 00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:32.640 Yeah, to be to be really clear about what you do and don't want. 00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:40.559 And likewise, when somebody gives you a no, we can often be terrified that somebody's gonna say no to us, so often we don't ask because because we're frightened, we'll get a no. 00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:55.519 Well, actually, that's a gift too, because then you know their boundary, yeah, absolutely, and in that way that it's always internal that when we say no and you see other people's reactions and you're like, I don't know, they're actually okay with that. 00:24:55.759 --> 00:24:58.880 You think, why was I so why was I so concerned? 00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:01.279 And other people say no. 00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:04.960 Um, and it is just about finding that point in your boundaries. 00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:10.079 Obviously, as you said then, that was it was quite hard at the beginning. 00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:11.599 Um, what do you think? 00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:17.039 What did it look like before it started to become more of a natural pattern for you? 00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:21.599 Hmm, probably a bit of hesitancy. 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:29.680 So I would find that I would need to take that pause rather than if it was an email, I'd sit on it for a little while and go, okay, I'm gonna breathe into this. 00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:30.559 I can say no. 00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:33.119 And again, if it was a text message. 00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:36.559 Sometimes I would say to somebody, I need some time to think about that. 00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:39.279 So to give it a bit of to give myself a bit of time. 00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:43.279 But actually now I'm so much more aligned with going, no, that's not right for me. 00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:44.319 No, that's not right. 00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:49.839 No, I'm not going to bend the way that I do things for um to to suit you. 00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:50.640 Yeah. 00:25:50.880 --> 00:25:53.680 And that's great, that's a great in-between, then, isn't it? 00:25:53.759 --> 00:26:00.079 If um, if somebody isn't used to saying no and it's something that's that's new, is is that in between? 00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:01.759 Um, can I get back to you on that? 00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:03.039 Let me think about that. 00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:08.799 And it gives you that way out that you don't have to say it in the minute, but you're not also saying yes. 00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:11.519 Yeah, yeah, for sure. 00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:12.559 Or what do you think? 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:22.960 What is it that people don't see about that inner sort of turmoil of when you first start out on this path that yeah might help other people who are starting on their own journey of no? 00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:33.839 Yeah, I would say that recognise that it can be a really difficult thing for us to all say, but the person on the receiving end isn't a monster, you know. 00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:37.440 What the big scary monster isn't gonna come and get you just because you say no. 00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:43.440 And um also people respect a no. 00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:44.720 They really do. 00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:47.039 So, for example, somebody, you know, I do firewalking. 00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:57.440 So somebody asked me if I would do a um a charity firewalk, but well, it wasn't quite a charity firewalk, but it was a it was a fire, it was a firewalk at a festival, and it would have been a very short one. 00:26:57.839 --> 00:27:00.400 And so I don't do firewalking that way. 00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:05.680 My firewalkings are deep and ceremonial, and and I said, No, I'm not gonna do that. 00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:12.640 It might have paid me lots of money, but I was like, no, because that's not within my that's not the way I do things. 00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:14.960 I would be out of integrity if I did that. 00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:21.119 And she came back to me and she said, Thank you, I really appreciate that, your honesty, and and thank you for thank you for your no. 00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:22.880 And I was

like, There we go, okay. 00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:25.359 Thank you for accepting my no. 00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:29.599 But again, it keeps coming back, doesn't it? 00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:31.920 To that putting yourself in sovereignty. 00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:47.440 All of these no is a boundary, boundary is standing in that sovereignty of yourself and giving yourself the power to earn your earn your life that I am the driver in this, I'm the driver in this destination on this journey. 00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:52.640 I'm not a passenger, and I will choose the the direction that I wish to go in. 00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:53.920 Yeah, yeah. 00:27:54.079 --> 00:27:56.160 And this is the point about self-sovereignty. 00:27:56.319 --> 00:27:57.359 You get to choose. 00:27:57.519 --> 00:27:57.680 Yeah. 00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:03.680 And you can take into consideration other people, like children, dependents, pets, all of that. 00:28:03.839 --> 00:28:06.480 But at the end of the day, like you say, you're the driver. 00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:21.119 I think that's choice was probably my biggest learning um at the beginning of my journey, and that thinking about, oh, I actually do have choices where I've thought, you know, oh, you just do, you just do. 00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:27.119 And I guess it's like you were saying with the box or being in the boxes, you just do things because you think it's expected. 00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:35.119 And when you realize that actually it's like being, it's almost like age reversing, going back to being a toddler and being like, why? 00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:36.400 Why do I need to do this? 00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:38.000 Why, why, why, why? 00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:46.319 And just challenging everything again with that sense of curiosity and innocence that why why do we always have to do this? 00:28:46.480 --> 00:28:48.640 Why does that have to be? 00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:50.319 Yes, I love that. 00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:51.039 I love that. 00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:56.160 Having the having the um curiosity to go, why are we doing this? 00:28:56.319 --> 00:28:58.000 Is it just because we've always done it? 00:28:58.240 --> 00:29:00.240 Or is it because it's there for a reason? 00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:07.839 Um, how do you think that that's helped you through the journey that you've been on and like you were saying, especially over the last couple of years? 00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:10.240 I think it's helped me be a lot stronger. 00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:24.319 So all of these things coming together has helped me really be able to hone into who I am and and also where I want to go because we're always developing, we're always um growing and learning. 00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:28.799 And we talked before about we've got our resources within us. 00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:35.200 We've we're we are we're already a beautiful and whole human being, but it doesn't mean we can't learn new things. 00:29:35.359 --> 00:29:48.319 It doesn't mean we need to be fixed, it

doesn't mean we mean we have to do anything to grow, but I think it's really important as a human being to be curious and to learn new things that can help us to step into where we want to be. 00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:57.680 So really the the embodiment that I've learned and listening to my body, listening to my nervous system in particular, has been very helpful. 00:29:57.839 --> 00:30:04.079 And actually, one of the key things is um I've always been one of these people that likes to push their edges. 00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:09.519 So, you know, you tell me to go run a 10k race, I'll go run a marathon or an ultramarathon. 00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:20.880 You know, um you tell me to, I did a vision quest last year where I could have fasted for four days, I decided to fast for six because that's like I like to push my edges a little bit more. 00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:31.680 And so um one of the things that I've really learned to to explore is the edges of of of my comfort zone. 00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:38.880 Yeah, the edges of where am I willing to go to, and how I'll go so far and then I'll come back to safety. 00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:53.279 It's called pendulation where you um you might um go to the edge of where your comfort zone is, you can feel your nervous system getting activated, and you get to the point where you know if you go a step further, it's too much, so then you come back. 00:30:53.440 --> 00:31:00.400 So I think what I've done over the last few years is try these things, and then if they're too much, I come back to my place of safety. 00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:10.640 But I'm always one for adventure, I'm always one for exploring new places and doing new things, and so and and I'm quite a brave person, I think. 00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:38.559 And so um, with a whole bucket of curiosity as well, I've used those um processes of of uh activation, of of regulation and of exploring those edges to make life fulfilling, make life exciting, to push, to step out of those boundaries and those expectations that that other people have put on me, and also perhaps I even put on myself. 00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:40.160 Yeah, absolutely. 00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:41.440 I think we we do, don't we? 00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:47.759 I think there's really something powerful in what you were saying there about the being in the comfort zone and out of it. 00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:58.640 I think sometimes there's a misconception that actually pushing yourself doesn't mean that you have to push and go right out of your comfort zone because that can also be really detrimental. 00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:10.480 But finding those edges that pushes you, but it doesn't overwhelm you and it doesn't, you know, trauma or whatever it is, but it doesn't push you so far out. 00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:12.319 A bit of nervy, a bit jingly. 00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:13.680 Oh, what's gonna happen here? 00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:18.400 But it doesn't have to be that extra, extra level, no, not at all. 00:32:18.559 --> 00:32:36.559 And and it's important not to necessarily put yourself in those spaces where you are gonna become very dysregulated or it might be massively overwhelming, because actually our we don't necessarily learn from it, or what we do learn from it is it's scary and we don't want to go there again. 00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:51.839 But if we can push the um the edges of our physical limitations, for example, oh, I'm gonna see if I can run an extra couple of miles today or lift a couple of extra kilos of weights or whatever, you know, then then we can begin to to move towards it and then come back and then move towards it. 00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:53.599 It's the same with our emotions. 00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:58.000 Can I allow myself to sit with my sadness, my grief, all of that? 00:32:58.079 --> 00:33:00.079 Whereas otherwise I might push them away. 00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:08.799 Can I just, you know, today I'm gonna be with them for five minutes and then tomorrow I'm gonna be with them for 10 minutes, and then actually it becomes easier and easier to just be with them. 00:33:09.519 --> 00:33:12.559 Yeah, it's it's also it's like that muscle memory as well, isn't it? 00:33:12.640 --> 00:33:20.640 Of like trying something, coming back, trying something, coming back, because otherwise, yeah, it goes into the filing cabinet of shit, right? 00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:25.039 And then when that comes back up again, it's like holy fuck, I am not doing that again. 00:33:25.119 --> 00:33:28.079 That is not where I am, because look what happened last time. 00:33:28.319 --> 00:33:34.960 But actually, we we went too far too, we went too far too fast and it burns us out. 00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:36.640 Exactly, exactly. 00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:50.480 And I think one of the one of the key teachings that I've learned, um, which I actually learned when I was learning mindfulness a long, long time ago, is the sutra of the two arrows, which is a a Buddhist principle where you might have heard of this before, where we're all struck by the arrow of suffering. 00:33:50.799 --> 00:33:52.480 We can't avoid that because it's human life. 00:33:52.640 --> 00:34:00.720 Maybe it's um we physically hurt ourselves or we we get divorced or we move, you know, have to um move out of our home or whatever that might be. 00:34:00.880 --> 00:34:02.480 And we can't avoid that. 00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:11.280 But a second arrow comes in and it strikes us in exactly the same place and where it's already inflamed and sore, and that's that the arrow of avoidance. 00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:14.159 And so that's that part of us that goes, I'm not gonna feel this. 00:34:14.239 --> 00:34:23.280 I'm gonna go and binge watch Netflix, I'm gonna do internet shopping, I'm gonna, for me, it's like I'm gonna go run run lots and lots of miles and just completely zone out. 00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:32.159 Um, but what happens is that actually 90% of our suffering comes from this avoidance, and only

10% of our suffering comes from that original arrow. 00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:42.239 So if we can lean into that suffering to begin with and work with it, then actually we begin to process it and work with it, and we we save ourselves 90% of suffering. 00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:50.480 It's also another arrow which pops in, and that's the arrow of shame, and that's the arrow that tells us we shouldn't be feeling like that, and a lot of people experience that too. 00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:51.599 I know I have. 00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:56.480 Yeah, I mean, for sure it's it's a constant just hitting, right? 00:34:56.639 --> 00:35:05.280 But and I guess it goes back to that point of being that emotion, where whatever it is, it is just looking to move forward and pass and keep going. 00:35:05.519 --> 00:35:29.760 But when we suppress it, we push it down, we ignore it, we yes, it's shameful, we feel guilty, or any of those what you say, shadow emotions, whatever, that it's just there, it's just information, it's just something to learn and move on from, which can sound easy to say, easier said than done, but it is it is temporary, it's not permanent states, right? 00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:30.639 Absolutely. 00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:33.119 And the first thing to do is turn towards it rather than away from it. 00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:35.280 Yeah, yeah, lean into it. 00:35:36.079 --> 00:35:44.960 So how does it um how does it feel today to see and know how your how your life has changed? 00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:53.760 If I were to go back 15 years maybe and look at myself, I would not I wouldn't think I'd believe it. 00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:55.199 I'd be like, what really? 00:35:55.440 --> 00:36:11.840 You know, at that time I was I was entrenched in my in my um my I'm gonna inverted commas proper jobs then and um and stuck in the systems and and kind of thriving in the systems as well at that point, but I I don't think I would recognise myself. 00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:26.800 And and one of the beautiful things about really coming back to yourself and who you are and letting go of all those expectations that everybody has put upon you is that you can begin to grow back into yourself if that makes sense. 00:36:27.039 --> 00:36:35.440 So now I'm 46 now and I feel more sexy, more desirable, more confident in my body than I did when I was 20, you know. 00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:41.760 And and I also give I don't give a fuck, which is so liberating, isn't it? 00:36:41.920 --> 00:36:46.079 I think the older we get, I don't care what people think of me, you know. 00:36:46.159 --> 00:37:14.159 I'm and also the um one of the things I've really learned is how to charge my Eros, my life force energy, my sensuality, and in doing so find pleasure in all areas of life, you know, yeah being out in nature, hanging out with friends, being with myself, reading a book, watching a film, and just noticing all those delicious moments that we might miss sometimes, otherwise miss or not appreciate.

00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:16.639 So there's a whole load of gratitude in there too. 00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:38.960 Also, with that, we kind of forget the things that bring us pleasure, we forget the things that bring us joy, and we think it's sometimes like all of these big moments and big experiences and stuff, but it can actually just be really, really simple, like sitting in enjoying something, something to eat, something to drink, something in the nature, or uh drawing, creative, whatever it is. 00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:41.840 There's just it's really simple, simple pleasures, isn't it? 00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:45.679 It's not doesn't have to always be like those absolute highs. 00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:46.639 No, not at all. 00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:50.719 In fact, I did an Instagram post about it yesterday, which is about glimmers. 00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:55.119 It's about when life throws you curveballs, um, find the glimmers. 00:37:55.199 --> 00:37:58.639 So I, when I was in India, I ran into a rock and it broke my big toe. 00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:03.840 And I was supposed to do an ultramarathon in next month, and as such, it's not healing fast enough, so I can't do it. 00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:05.679 So I was feeling a bit upset about that. 00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:07.760 And then I was like, why am I upset? 00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:09.280 Look at all the glimmers here. 00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:13.039 I was up, I was actually managing to walk up a mountain, you know, just a little one. 00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:17.760 Um, and the sun was just setting, and I was catching the last of the rays, and it was beautiful. 00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:27.360 And you know, I'd seen my children laugh and smile that day and giggle, and oh, you know, when kids have that like uncontrollable giggle and it just it washes over you as well. 00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:29.599 And so many things to be grateful for. 00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:42.320 And those are the glimmers, and and you might just find one a day, or you might find that actually the next day you can find two, and the next day you can find three, and the next day four, five, or six, and then what you notice is that your whole energy begins to change. 00:38:42.400 --> 00:38:45.360 And if we won't think about the law of attraction, what we give out, we get back. 00:38:45.440 --> 00:38:48.480 So the more little glimmers we find, the more glimmers we're gonna find. 00:38:48.559 --> 00:38:51.599 Well, sorry, that we find, the more are gonna come our way. 00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:53.039 Yeah, absolutely. 00:38:53.199 --> 00:38:58.719 And I think that having that practice of gratitude as well is so important to do that, isn't it? 00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:12.480 It's like looking for what are the things that you are grateful for today, what are the things that you know you're breathing, you're alive, you you know, live to live in a warm house, you go to work, you have different, different things. 00:39:12.559 --> 00:39:21.440 There's gratitude

in all of that, and like you say, it changes that energy structure that what you give, you receive. 00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:22.559 Absolutely, yeah. 00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:24.639 Shifts your whole energetic vibration. 00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:25.360 Yeah. 00:39:25.599 --> 00:39:31.920 I think what you were saying earlier, I love that in that going out there and sort of re finding yourself. 00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:38.960 It's like you're you're feral, and it's like you've welded and you've come back, and it's like I'm rewilding again. 00:39:39.199 --> 00:39:47.440 There's something really animalistic somehow in that as well, that we rediscover who we are and who we are truly here to be. 00:39:48.159 --> 00:39:49.119 Yeah, for sure. 00:39:49.360 --> 00:40:10.000 There's a yeah, it's primal, it's it's like we're undomesticating ourselves, it's like we're exploring and discovering all these emotions that we that we've been suppressing and and are able to then express them in terms of rage or frustration or all of that, and and of love, being able to express love and have that full spectrum of emotions, which is which is so important. 00:40:10.159 --> 00:40:13.599 And often we are encouraged not to express. 00:40:13.920 --> 00:40:14.400 Yeah. 00:40:14.639 --> 00:40:23.199 And also to receive, like that receiving in that way that it's not just about, especially as you were saying, like with people pleasing and things like that. 00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:25.199 You're so used to giving. 00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:29.840 Receiving feels alien, it feels like, oh God, no, I don't have that. 00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:31.679 Oh no, I I give, give, give. 00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:38.320 And it's learning to receive and yeah, having that that people also want to give. 00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:43.840 Yeah, and if you think about it, how much joy and delight do you get from giving? 00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:47.760 And when the other person receives it, you really get a buzz from it. 00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:53.039 So when you're receiving from other people or you're receiving from the universe, you're bringing them joy too. 00:40:53.119 --> 00:40:54.639 So it's a reciprocity. 00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:55.920 Yeah, absolutely. 00:40:56.079 --> 00:41:12.320 And I guess also it goes back to the duality of everything, you know, giving and receiving, they come as a cycle, you know, like laughter, sadness, all of these things as a duality that no one thing is supposed to be a dominant force, whether it was masculine, feminine. 00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:14.320 I guess that's the whole point of tantra, also, isn't it? 00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:17.039 It's like this do uh merging of energies. 00:41:17.199 --> 00:41:21.840 This really life is not about one dominance, it's about finding that blend. 00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:26.400 And I don't really want to say balance because balance feels so linear. 00:41:26.639 --> 00:41:28.480 Whereas things are not like that, are they? 00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:37.280 It moves and it changes, and no, and there's always swirling and movement and evolution and and pendulating one way and then the other way. 00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:39.519 But I think it's recognizing that both are there. 00:41:39.679 --> 00:41:48.400 I mean, part of the work that I do is very much about recognizing we live in a in a very patriarchal system, so there's a lot of masculine energy about. 00:41:48.639 --> 00:41:55.440 And I live in so many of my younger years in the masculine, in my masculine all the time, especially with the jobs that I did. 00:41:55.679 --> 00:42:02.159 So coming back to the feminine for especially for some women can be really unfamiliar and it can be a bit scary. 00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:12.480 But actually, what we need to do is we still need that masculine energy, but we need to we need the the divine feminine to rise as well, to balance to literally to balance it out. 00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:23.119 I mean, not to go into politics, but if you look at the shit show of the world today, I mean, if there was a few more female leaders, I feel like we'd be in a completely different place right now. 00:42:23.440 --> 00:42:24.400 Absolutely agree. 00:42:24.559 --> 00:42:27.440 And how do you um how do you celebrate yourself? 00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:28.960 What an interesting question. 00:42:29.119 --> 00:42:31.039 How do I celebrate myself? 00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:33.840 So I think there's different elements to this, aren't there? 00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:53.760 There's the things that we can almost give ourselves a little treat for being for for doing well or for uh for a celebration, which might for me my my pleasures are a hot bath, like a scalding hot bath with crystals and candles all around and a really good book or a really long run in the mountains, that can be a good one. 00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:57.440 Um but how do I celebrate myself? 00:42:57.599 --> 00:43:02.719 I think I just have joy in my own existence, which I haven't always had. 00:43:03.360 --> 00:43:25.039 And I think celebrating my own existence, knowing that I've birthed two wonderful beings into this world, and I know I've made a difference to a hell of a lot of women in this world already, and I know that I have the potential to help and change and shift the energy of so many more women. 00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:28.239 There's so much potential for us in the world to do good. 00:43:28.400 --> 00:43:36.880 Yeah, I celebrate myself by hey, I'm you know, just even giving myself a hug, having a having a you know, a pat on the arm at the end of the day. 00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:37.679 Well done, Jen. 00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:38.400 You did a good job. 00:43:38.559 --> 00:43:39.360 That's it, isn't it? 00:43:39.519 --> 00:43:43.679 Like it changes on a daily basis, like how you would what you need at that time. 00:43:43.840 --> 00:43:49.679 Is it physical, is it emotional, like what are the different needs that you that you have? 00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:55.760 I love what

you said about celebrating your existence because I think we don't do that enough. 00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:59.760 It's really when we we fall in love with ourselves and we fall. 00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:13.760 And we fall and we fall, and we keep falling into ourselves, and ourselves as at the center of our universe that life starts to change because that relationship with ourselves is the benchmark for all others. 00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:21.920 And I just don't think we appreciate our existence, even the fact that we are alive, heart beating enough. 00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:23.360 So that's yeah, I love that. 00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:24.159 That's amazing. 00:44:24.400 --> 00:44:24.880 I love that. 00:44:25.039 --> 00:44:29.119 Falling in love with yourself and also falling in love with life as well. 00:44:29.519 --> 00:44:31.039 Yeah, absolutely. 00:44:31.440 --> 00:44:32.960 That's really beautiful. 00:44:33.280 --> 00:44:36.960 And what what do you what do you think? 00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:40.079 Um, Jen from Jen from the army. 00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:42.880 Uh what do you think she'd say she could see you to do? 00:44:44.079 --> 00:44:46.239 I actually think she'd be really proud. 00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:50.880 She'd be like, ooh, you've you've done you've done a brave thing there, haven't you? 00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:52.400 You've stepped outside of that box. 00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:53.199 Good for you. 00:44:53.440 --> 00:45:13.760 And and actually, I still see a lot of qualities from from her in me now, in terms of um, I guess self-assurance and having that, there's something about being in the army, it's very easy to hide behind your rank. 00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:23.440 And so there's an expectation that if you ask somebody to do somebody, or so somebody to do something, rather tell them probably, give them an order that it'll be done. 00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:34.000 And so um sometimes, just occasionally, I still carry a little bit of that arrogance with me that it'll be done, and I have to kind of check myself. 00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:46.159 However, at one point I would see that as arrogance and um um perhaps um being, I don't know, not rude, but a little bit direct. 00:45:46.320 --> 00:45:53.119 And actually, if I'm asking for something for myself, that's something I've learned to do because I I didn't do that before. 00:45:53.360 --> 00:46:01.039 You know, I I would find it really difficult to say, please can I have this um in case it would inconvenience somebody. 00:46:01.280 --> 00:46:12.800 So so now not that I make a habit of this, but if ever I went out to a restaurant or had something to eat and it didn't, it wasn't great, I wouldn't say I'd be like, oh, that's a shame, I won't come here again. 00:46:12.960 --> 00:46:16.320 Now I'm like, excuse me, my meal's not not to my expectation. 00:46:16.400 --> 00:46:18.320 I want you to change it for me, please. 00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:25.199 It's just things like that, you know, that I feel now that I

have much more confidence to do. 00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:32.800 And going back to to the the Jen in the army, I think that she would celebrate me for being who I am. 00:46:33.599 --> 00:46:34.480 Absolutely. 00:46:34.719 --> 00:46:56.880 And there's also something, again, it goes back to maybe it's a loose stretch, but like that boundaries and the serenity again, in that actually this is about service, you know, and maybe also being self-employed, you recognize the service that you give in what you do now, the quality of the you know, goods that you deliver. 00:46:57.199 --> 00:46:59.360 There needs to be an energetic exchange, doesn't there? 00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:06.480 And and the the the whole reason behind my work, and I'm sure it is for yours as well, is that you want to make a difference in the world. 00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:11.440 You know, you want to be able to help people, to, to help the environment. 00:47:11.599 --> 00:47:24.239 One of my key things is that I really want women to thrive because I know that when we are thriving, and like you say, when we're in more positions of of political power and and and places like that, um, that we're gonna change the system. 00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:27.199 And it's so important that we begin to change that system. 00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:28.800 And I believe that we can. 00:47:28.960 --> 00:47:39.920 And I believe the more women that learn how to say no, how to stand in their self-sovereignty, and just to not take any shit, that's gonna make the hugest difference in the world. 00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:40.400 It really is. 00:47:40.480 --> 00:47:44.159 The Dalai Lama said Western women are gonna change the world, and I I think I believe him. 00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:45.679 So Dalai Lama. 00:47:46.239 --> 00:48:01.599 Um quickly, as a last question, if you think about um about Jen in the army, at that point, what percentage of the life that you lead now and are living, do you think she could have envisaged? 00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:07.119 Um, I don't know. 00:48:07.280 --> 00:48:10.400 Probably, I don't know, maybe like a quarter of it, perhaps. 00:48:10.719 --> 00:48:14.239 I would imagine that she would have thought she would carry on doing exactly what she was doing. 00:48:14.480 --> 00:48:20.320 I think that's a really important distinction, is that we can always do more than we ever think that we can. 00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:34.960 We don't dream to our fullest point that if you were thinking, you know, like 25% and you've achieved a whole of a 75% on top of that, we can always do more than where we think we can at that point in time. 00:48:35.679 --> 00:48:37.119 Absolutely, absolutely. 00:48:37.599 --> 00:48:47.360 And it and it goes it goes back to um pushing our edges, you know, like I'm gonna see how far can I go, yeah, and be proud of how far I go. 00:48:47.599 --> 00:48:48.639 And keep coming back to it. 00:48:48.719 --> 00:49:05.599 I think like you said earlier, that knowing that you are in the

right place and knowing you're on your own time journey, you're on your own type, and you've got to learn these things, you've got to do it, and you've got to go through the process, but you are on, you are in the right place and the right time. 00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:07.599 Absolutely, you're on your own journey. 00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:11.119 It's fuck all to do with anybody else, so you just crack on. 00:49:11.840 --> 00:49:14.079 Yeah, so I love this. 00:49:14.239 --> 00:49:24.960 We've got remembering, we've got sovereignty, we're breaking out of the box, we are reclaiming our divine feminine, and we're saying no. 00:49:26.800 --> 00:49:29.039 Yes, yes to all of that. 00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:31.119 Thank you. 00:49:31.440 --> 00:49:32.719 So, so so so much. 00:49:32.800 --> 00:49:33.760 It's been amazing. 00:49:33.840 --> 00:49:35.119 So, thanks so much for your time. 00:49:35.360 --> 00:49:36.320 You're very welcome. 00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:37.840 Thank you for having me. 00:49:39.039 --> 00:49:41.119 What a refreshing chat with Jen. 00:49:41.440 --> 00:49:52.639 Uh, there's so many nuggets to take away here of great things to think about in our own lives, that sovereignty, that remembering. 00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:55.679 And a lot of it also comes back to boundaries. 00:49:56.000 --> 00:50:01.760 Saying no, just being where we want to be when we want to be there. 00:50:01.920 --> 00:50:19.599 I know life gets in the way, it's busy, lots is going on, but it's really taking that time to centre ourselves in it, in our lives, not on the fringes, not on the to-do lists, and sometimes saying no, we get really scared thinking, shit, what's in there gonna say? 00:50:19.679 --> 00:50:22.159 They'll be so angry, they'll think I'm selfish. 00:50:22.719 --> 00:50:24.400 And it's such an anticlimax. 00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:26.719 People just go, uh, okay, and move on. 00:50:26.800 --> 00:50:30.239 And we're left thinking, what the hell just happened there? 00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:34.719 I also like to think about it as what are we denying other people? 00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:38.000 What learning are we denying them by always saying yes? 00:50:38.239 --> 00:50:41.039 Maybe disappointment is part of their learning too. 00:50:41.199 --> 00:50:52.719 One of the truest things I definitely got from Jen there was, I feel more sexy, more desirable, more confident in my body now than I did when I was 20. 00:50:53.039 --> 00:51:02.719 Dear God, if I think back to my 20s and how insecure about my body and self I was, I'm like, what a freaking waste of time. 00:51:02.880 --> 00:51:06.239 I was so hot and I never appreciated myself. 00:51:06.559 --> 00:51:14.159 I was too busy trying to be smaller, body, personality, needs, just blend into that corner. 00:51:14.559 --> 00:51:15.760 For what and for who? 00:51:15.920 --> 00:51:18.000 Like, bloody, certainly not me. 00:51:18.320 --> 00:51:29.920 I do love that more women in their 40s are openly now sharing that celebration of themselves, feeling sexier, more confident, hotter, and actually saying it out loud. 00:51:30.079 --> 00:51:39.360 And ladies in your 20s, live it up now because honestly, you're gonna bloody look back in 20 years and think, Jesus Christ, what on earth was I worrying about? 00:51:39.679 --> 00:51:45.920 Cliches are super cheese first, I know, but honestly, they become cliches for a reason because it's so true. 00:51:46.159 --> 00:51:51.280 Well, I hope that you enjoyed Jen's episode as much as I enjoyed chatting to her. 00:51:51.440 --> 00:52:01.920 Join me next week when I'll be talking to Abigail Nelson about her traumatic experience at the hands of the NHS. 00:52:02.079 --> 00:52:02.559 Join me then.