התמלול המלא של Figure Eights (A Music Podcast) Episode 74 w_ Jon Wurster (Bob Mould / Superchunk / the Mountain Goats)

00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:44.639 just was happened to be in our area who was 77 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:46.279 also kind of in the same but it was a 78 00:04:46.360 --> 00:04:51.240 duo called Narthex, and the drummer for Narthex went on 79 00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:55.399 to become the drummer in The Dead Milkmen, Dean Clean. Yes, 80 00:04:55.480 --> 00:04:58.519 so so so he They kind of took me under 81 00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:01.439 their wing when they they were forming The Dead Milkmen. 82 00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:05.120 So so through them, I got to inch my way 83 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:07.199 closer to the city every year, you know what I mean. 84 00:05:07.240 --> 00:05:09.720 So by by the time I was like eighteen or something, 85 00:05:09.720 --> 00:05:11.879 I felt like I was kind of freeing. 86 00:05:12.040 --> 00:05:14.120 I could do things in the city. Now, did you 87 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:18.680 say Philly was the closest big city? Yeah, yeah, okay, gotcha. 88 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:23.759 When did you start playing drums. I started taking lessons 89 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:27.480 when I was ten. But when you're a kid, you know, 90 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:30.160 it's you want a drum set and you just want 91 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:31.519 to bash on a drum set and they give you 92 00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:34.800 a little pat and yeah yeah. So you know, it 93 00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:36.959 was so not fun for a ten year old that 94 00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:42.079 I ended up stopping and then started up again a 95 00:05:42.120 --> 00:05:45.639 few years later, and my parents got me a drum kit, 96 00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:48.959 and thank god they were so cool about me play. 97 00:05:49.040 --> 00:05:51.120 It's the worst instrument for a parent, you know, so 98 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:54.680 absolutely yeah. So so I just started playing along with 99 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:59.000 records and then this band hair Club for Men formed, 100 00:05:59.079 --> 00:06:00.759 so I was in a band and so that that's 101 00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:01.639 kind of how I started. 102 00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:04.160 What what were you playing along to or some of 103 00:06:04.199 --> 00:06:05.079 those records? 104 00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:08.319 Well, it's funny. The first record I when I realized 105 00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:11.560 I could put headphones on and play along and you know, 106 00:06:11.800 --> 00:06:16.879 still here was Squeezing Out Sparks by Graham Parker and 107 00:06:16.920 --> 00:06:19.879 the rumor Wow, And I had this while I've told 108 00:06:19.879 --> 00:06:21.839 this story before, but I think I think it's worth telling. 109 00:06:23.120 --> 00:06:26.279 So the Mountain Goats, this UH band I play in. 110 00:06:26.360 --> 00:06:30.199 We we were doing this kind of residency at one 111 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:35.240 of these what's it called the UH they have them 112 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:36.959 all over the country. Now it's it's a like a 113 00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:39.600 sit down, seated club. And I'm spacing on the name. Uh, 114 00:06:42.199 --> 00:06:44.839 somebody will chime in. But anyway, So we were doing 115 00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:49.120 three nights at this place in New York, and during 116 00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:51.319 sound check on the final day, they brought these kids 117 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:53.920 in to like ask us questions about being in a 118 00:06:53.959 --> 00:06:57.720 band and things, and and one kid asked me, you know, uh, 119 00:06:58.040 --> 00:07:00.360 that very question, what was the first record I played 120 00:07:00.360 --> 00:07:01.959 along with? And I told him it was this Grand 121 00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:06.360 Parker and the Rumor record. And so that was the 122 00:07:06.360 --> 00:07:08.560 final day of Oh City Winery. 123 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:11.319 That's what those clubs are called, the city. 124 00:07:10.279 --> 00:07:15.079 Sorry. Yeah. So next day I'm leaving for the first 125 00:07:15.079 --> 00:07:17.720 show of a Bob moldtour and it was it was 126 00:07:17.720 --> 00:07:22.360 in Madison, Wisconsin. So I connected there in Chicago and 127 00:07:22.439 --> 00:07:24.240 so I come out of my little you know, my 128 00:07:24.839 --> 00:07:28.240 into the into the waiting gate area off my plane. 129 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:33.680 First two people I see standing there Graham Parker and 130 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:39.759 I'm facally this damn guitar player Brinsley Swarz, who played 131 00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:42.959 guitar and the Rumor and and I was so I 132 00:07:43.040 --> 00:07:45.519 was so excited. I just ran up to them and 133 00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:48.680 started talking. I just said, oh my god, the first 134 00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:52.519 record I've ever played. And they're like whoa and uh 135 00:07:52.600 --> 00:07:54.720 and they're like, who are you? You look familiar and 136 00:07:54.759 --> 00:07:57.240 I said, I'm out there, but but uh, you know, 137 00:07:57.319 --> 00:07:59.639 blah blah blah. And it turned out they were at 138 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:02.160 the the Bob Mults show two days later at First Avenue. 139 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:05.079 Really yeah, yeah, I guess they were playing. And it 140 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:06.399 was the day Prince died. 141 00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:10.600 Oh what a crazy day that was. 142 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:15.519 Oh my god, that was oh yeah, god. But I 143 00:08:15.560 --> 00:08:19.279 will say that was an amazing night. We we heard 144 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:25.319 the news on the drive in from Madison and and 145 00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:27.720 we couldn't believe it, but then you know, it was confirmed, 146 00:08:27.720 --> 00:08:30.120 so it was it was it was just me and 147 00:08:30.199 --> 00:08:35.039 Bob and and Bob's partner, huh Don. And so you know, 148 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:36.720 we're just listening to all these reports come in and 149 00:08:36.759 --> 00:08:40.559 we get there and by chance,

Bob Starr at First 150 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:43.159 Ave is right next to Princes so so you know, 151 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:46.080 so we were staying like two blocks away, and I 152 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:48.679 wandered over and there were already people, you know, putting 153 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:53.639 flowers down, and you know, CNN's there, and and that 154 00:08:53.840 --> 00:08:56.600 night they must have just done this, you know, on 155 00:08:56.600 --> 00:09:01.200 the fly they put a show together. Yeah, outside of 156 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:02.639 First Avenue, I guess it was a lot of people 157 00:09:02.639 --> 00:09:05.639 that played, you know with him over the years, local people, 158 00:09:05.720 --> 00:09:09.159 and it was just amazing and like every time I hear, 159 00:09:10.360 --> 00:09:13.200 what's the song damp but dah da, I want to 160 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:16.279 be your lover? Yeah, like that that was blasting just 161 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:19.200 in the city, Like it was crazy. All the lights 162 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:21.879 were purple like on the buildings and I couldn't go, 163 00:09:22.039 --> 00:09:25.240 couldn't bring myself to do it. I should have. It 164 00:09:25.320 --> 00:09:27.879 was so sad, but it was also like, wow, this 165 00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:29.279 is the importance of music. 166 00:09:29.399 --> 00:09:32.039 Well did you hear why they had permission to do that? 167 00:09:32.600 --> 00:09:34.519 No? No, okay, Well this is a fun story. 168 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:39.039 So if Prince laur Prince must have been two thousand 169 00:09:39.039 --> 00:09:41.159 and seven, you know he had the thing with seven, 170 00:09:41.679 --> 00:09:43.720 so it was seven seven oh seven. 171 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:44.679 He did. 172 00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:50.320 At Macy's Downtown, he played like a show, and then 173 00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:53.759 later that night he played at the Target Center, and 174 00:09:53.799 --> 00:09:58.600 then later that night he played at First Avenue And 175 00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:02.320 the First Avenue show started late and the cops broke 176 00:10:02.360 --> 00:10:05.080 it up because it was past bar close and they 177 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:09.159 shut the show down, which is insane, Like come so 178 00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:12.840 what they did and this is kind of kind of amazing. 179 00:10:12.840 --> 00:10:17.159 And how it all panned out is they they put 180 00:10:17.200 --> 00:10:23.039 together legislature that said basically, bar closes bar clothes unless 181 00:10:23.240 --> 00:10:24.679 we have the Prince Rule. 182 00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:26.879 Wow. And the Prince. 183 00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:29.360 Rule was put into effect so that they could do 184 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:32.559 that that night outside. Otherwise it would have happened, but 185 00:10:32.600 --> 00:10:34.639 it was because they shut that last showdown and they 186 00:10:34.639 --> 00:10:36.720 had a Prince rule in Minneapolis. 187 00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:41.200 Oh oh my god. I always sympathize with people like 188 00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:46.039 Michael Bland, you know, his his drummer, just like you 189 00:10:46.039 --> 00:10:49.200 have to play three shows a day on that tour, 190 00:10:49.320 --> 00:10:52.320 you know from I mean you're you're playing drums or 191 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:55.399 whatever from you know, from two pm to two am. 192 00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:58.200 And it's not like Bland hit soft like I'm sure 193 00:10:58.240 --> 00:10:58.960 he's worn out. 194 00:10:59.759 --> 00:11:02.919 Yeah yeah, oh my god. So crazy. Oh yeah, that's crazy. 195 00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:06.559 But that's that's why that happened. So pretty cool, pretty cool. 196 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:09.559 That's tomorrow's rock and roll weirdness. Oh there you go. 197 00:11:10.600 --> 00:11:12.639 Yeah, I'm sure you could find some stories online about 198 00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:17.679 it too. But it's uh so, as were you a 199 00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:19.840 Prince fan as a kid, then it sounds like it 200 00:11:19.879 --> 00:11:23.120 was early eighties, so it's probably prime. There's a little 201 00:11:23.159 --> 00:11:24.559 outside of your scope at that point. 202 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:27.679 Well, I was really into you know, like punk rock 203 00:11:27.679 --> 00:11:29.679 and new wave and stuff. But but he was kind 204 00:11:29.720 --> 00:11:33.399 of in that too, Like I like I he I 205 00:11:33.960 --> 00:11:37.159 liked like I remember having controversy as a kid, and 206 00:11:37.159 --> 00:11:40.279 and and but I don't think I was aware of 207 00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:46.519 like the first record, but but I remember, yeah, really 208 00:11:46.600 --> 00:11:50.200 liking that, and and his videos were great too, and 209 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:53.679 because so like I mean, he was almost punk you know, 210 00:11:53.840 --> 00:11:57.039 in his own way. So so yeah, that kind of 211 00:11:57.080 --> 00:11:59.240 filtered in my world a little bit, but not not 212 00:11:59.279 --> 00:12:01.120 a whole lot. But I I totally you know, I 213 00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:04.080 appreciate and then I loved, you know, all the hits 214 00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:06.480 that came to and just his his work ethic too 215 00:12:06.519 --> 00:12:09.240 is insane. Yeah, and it's general weirdness. Yeah. 216 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:12.679 Yeah, did you have you played the Armory in Minneapolis? 217 00:12:12.759 --> 00:12:16.480 I can't remember if I've no, but uh, Bob. 218 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:19.039 Mole tells the story of I think Hooskers opened for 219 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:20.039 the Dead Kennedys there. 220 00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:22.279 Okay, okay, because that's where the nineteen ninety nine Prince 221 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:23.279 video was shot too. 222 00:12:23.399 --> 00:12:27.159 Yep. Yeah, well and I think they started having shows 223 00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:28.519 again there is that

correct. 224 00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:29.879 A great And I was wondering because I've seen the 225 00:12:29.879 --> 00:12:32.039 Mountain Goats with you in it. I couldn't remember if 226 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:35.039 it was their first have or the Palace, but. 227 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:38.440 I think it might have been the Palace. Yeah, that's 228 00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:41.399 where we last played, gotcha? That was that was probably 229 00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:42.080 last time. I said. 230 00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:44.000 And I've seen you with Bob Colinos college. 231 00:12:44.039 --> 00:12:45.519 Yeah. Cool? Cool? 232 00:12:45.559 --> 00:12:48.679 So when did you When did you leave that small town? 233 00:12:50.200 --> 00:12:54.960 Well, it's an interesting story. I was I was nineteen, 234 00:12:55.679 --> 00:12:58.840 so this is nineteen. This is early eighty six, I 235 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:01.519 think like January of eighty six, and I was in 236 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:05.279 a band that played in UH Base in Philadelphia. I 237 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:09.200 was still living at home in the Farmlands, and our 238 00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:12.879 band was called Psychotic Norman and we were like a 239 00:13:13.399 --> 00:13:17.120 weird It was like a weird cross between the Minutemen, 240 00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:21.759 The Fall, the Ramones and some some and our singers 241 00:13:21.799 --> 00:13:25.159 sounded like, uh, the guy in Canned Heat who sings 242 00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:29.240 going up the country, you gotta do good. That's very 243 00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:33.120 specific voice. Al al Fisher Is that his name? Al 244 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:40.559 Al something? Anyway, So that band was kind I felt 245 00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:42.039 like I was the only one in the band that 246 00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:44.159 had like a real work ethic, you know what I mean. Like, 247 00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:48.080 so the the Final Straw, the Final Straw, I don't 248 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:50.720 know how true this is, but my memory is that 249 00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:55.080 our bassist whose house we practiced in, uh, had gone 250 00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:58.919 to New York to see the replacements or something, and 251 00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:02.639 he didn't come back in time to rehearse on Sunday 252 00:14:02.679 --> 00:14:07.039 at his own house, and so I was upset about that. Uh. 253 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:10.600 And by chance, that night my my brother called. And 254 00:14:10.759 --> 00:14:13.879 by this point, my older brother was on a track 255 00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:17.440 scholarship at wake Forest University in Winston Salem, n C. 256 00:14:17.879 --> 00:14:20.840 So uh, And at this point I loved all that 257 00:14:20.919 --> 00:14:24.000 North Carolina jangle stuff that's active and the dbs and 258 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:28.039 the ram stuff so great. Yeah. So by chance, one 259 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:30.799 of these bands who I liked, whose record I sent 260

00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:33.759 away for in high school, this band called the Right Profile. 261 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:38.480 You've never heard of them, although one of our main 262 00:14:38.840 --> 00:14:47.200 singers went on to co write the Freakonomics book Stephen J. Dubner. Wow. Yeah. 263 00:14:47.240 --> 00:14:49.480 So anyway, so he was in the band and it 264 00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:53.000 was like a roots rock band. And my brother calls 265 00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:56.279 that night of the no show at our our practice 266 00:14:56.320 --> 00:15:00.360 in Philly and says, I saw these guys today, you know, 267 00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:02.519 and he kind of knew them, and said their drummer 268 00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:05.759 just left, and would you want to try out, So 269 00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:08.679 I was like, yeah, like I'd. 270 00:15:08.279 --> 00:15:12.279 Like something more stables. Yeah, that was your Dave Grohl moment. Yeah, 271 00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:14.759 like oh falling apart at the right time. 272 00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:18.159 Yeah. So, uh my dad gave me probably one hundred 273 00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:21.519 bucks to fly down and uh brother picked me up 274 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:24.159 or a friend of his picked me up and went 275 00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:26.519 to the band house. And at this point I'd only 276 00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:30.240 corresponded with him via via writing, and uh, we just 277 00:15:30.799 --> 00:15:32.480 we all hit it off. They were a little older 278 00:15:32.519 --> 00:15:35.440 than me, and uh, I tried out and I got 279 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:37.799 in the band. And four months later we're in Clive 280 00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:41.960 Davis's office at Ariston and he signed us. WHOA what 281 00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:43.600 a trip? Oh my god? 282 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:45.320 Yeah, four months after the no show. 283 00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:49.840 Yeah, I mean it all went downhill from there, like 284 00:15:49.879 --> 00:15:53.360 we need signed and does. But but we got got 285 00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:56.519 to work with some cool producers Pete Pete Anderson who 286 00:15:56.559 --> 00:16:00.279 did the the Dwight Yoakum records. Uh, and we got 287 00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:02.840 halfway into a record at art in Memphis with Jim 288 00:16:02.840 --> 00:16:06.639 Dickinson just after pleased to meet me. But it just 289 00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:09.120 it was the eighties and he was second guessing his 290 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:11.759 own way of doing stuff. So it just was it 291 00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:14.159 was sounding too slick and it wasn't his fault. So 292 00:16:14.759 --> 00:16:17.919 we cut bait and we ended up, you know, going 293 00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:21.320 into the hell that all bands go into, and that 294 00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:23.039 dragged on until like ninety one. 295 00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:24.240 Did the record come out? 296 00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:26.159 No? No, never finished it. 297 00:16:26.600 -->

00:16:29.320 Oh and that was the only record that you were 298 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:33.879 That was the first record for the label. Yep, wow, 299 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:36.679 so what happened there? They just lose an A and 300 00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:38.559 R guy. 301 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:43.639 Oh well, this is amazing. So maybe a year or 302 00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:46.200 two into this into our signing, things were, you know, 303 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:48.320 things were just like it, you know, going at the 304 00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:51.799 speed of molasses. Everything is. So that's why I was 305 00:16:51.799 --> 00:16:53.840 so excited to getting super Chunk. Afterwards, I was like, 306 00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:56.240 I thought, oh yeah, you can put your own records out, 307 00:16:56.320 --> 00:16:58.720 you know, and do it on your own. Yeah. So, 308 00:16:58.840 --> 00:17:02.519 like the major label thing was was awful, but oh 309 00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:06.640 so so so then a friend of mine from Philly said, oh, yeah, 310 00:17:06.680 --> 00:17:10.920 I heard that you you guys were a revenge signing. 311 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:16.759 So basically there was an A and R guy at 312 00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:20.720 Arista who wanted to sign us and Clive didn't want 313 00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:22.960 to sign us, and then that guy left to another 314 00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:25.960 label and then Clive signed us, so which I don't 315 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:31.039 doubt who knows. Wow, the politics. 316 00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:33.519 Okay, So then you went on to so it was 317 00:17:33.559 --> 00:17:34.880 super Chunk right after that. 318 00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:42.440 Then, yeah, I that band. We ended up getting a 319 00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:46.720 publishing deal with this company, and through the publishing deal, 320 00:17:46.839 --> 00:17:50.000 we got to do a session with Steve Jordan, the 321 00:17:50.039 --> 00:17:51.920 drummer who's now in the Rolling Stones. 322 00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:58.319 Yep, just did the new Soul Asylum record, the new one. 323 00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:01.920 Oh my god, he did. He did them after he 324 00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:07.039 did the session I'm about to talk about. Nice. Yeah, 325 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:12.279 So the woman that signed us to that publishing deal said, 326 00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:14.799 I think you guys should record with Steve Jordan. And 327 00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:17.839 by this point Steve was, uh, he might have been 328 00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:20.680 out of the Letterman band by this point, I guess, 329 00:18:20.839 --> 00:18:26.039 but he was. He was producing stuff and Soul Asylum 330 00:18:26.119 --> 00:18:28.519 was an early one, and I remember him telling the 331 00:18:28.519 --> 00:18:33.200 story of going to First Avenue Too to see them play. 332 00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:37.440 So this would have been eighty eight maybe or something, 333 00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:40.839 and and my memory is he ended up

just hanging 334 00:18:40.839 --> 00:18:48.599 out with eleanor Mondale all night. So but anyway, so 335 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:53.799 we ended up doing a recording session with Steve at 336 00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:58.680 this place called the Hit Factory in Times Square and 337 00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:04.119 it was just the most transformative musical event for me 338 00:19:04.279 --> 00:19:09.079 in my life. It was just amazing. He Uh, I 339 00:19:09.160 --> 00:19:11.640 learned so much from him in just a week, without 340 00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:13.759 him ever really telling me what to do. I was 341 00:19:13.799 --> 00:19:16.680 just sort of absorbed his thing, and and you know 342 00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:18.839 what he did and what he didn't do, and and 343 00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:23.799 it just kind of changed my life. And and uh 344 00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:33.640 so not long after that, I moved to Chapel Hill 345 00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:38.839 from Winston Salem and I ended up joining Super Chunk. 346 00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:40.640 How did that come about? 347 00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:44.559 Well, it was a band I knew of, and I 348 00:19:44.680 --> 00:19:47.480 knew Mac the singer for a little bit. I was 349 00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:52.160 living in northern New Jersey with the right profile guys 350 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:56.759 when Mac was in at Columbia University, so I would 351 00:19:56.799 --> 00:19:59.880 see him at shows at Maxwell. It's like soul Asylum 352 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:03.519 or whoever. And so I knew him a little bit 353 00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:05.240 through that. And then when I moved to town, I 354 00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:08.559 got a job as a window washer here in Chapel Hill, 355 00:20:09.559 --> 00:20:13.839 and one of our accounts was school Kids Records, where 356 00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:20.519 he worked. And so I came back from this really 357 00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:25.960 rough tour by that band that Steve Jordan produced, and 358 00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:27.400 we went all the way out west to try to 359 00:20:27.400 --> 00:20:29.319 get a record deal. So now it's like summer of 360 00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:32.680 ninety one and nothing happened. It was terrible. And the 361 00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:34.839 day I get back, I go stop in at my 362 00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:37.880 brother's office here in Chapel Hill and he goes, hey, 363 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:41.240 Matt called, and I was like, please be what I 364 00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:46.799 hope it is. And so I went to the store 365 00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:51.440 and we talked and basically they were having trouble with 366 00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:54.440 their drummer and they had one tour that they were 367 00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:56.839 going to do with mud Honey opening for mud Honey, 368 00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:00.640 and he said, you know, if things don't work out, 369 00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:03.839 would you want to come in? And I was like, yeah, sure. 370 00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:06.519 So for the next like two weeks or three, I 371 00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:10.240 went on on washing windows and listening to their their 372 00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:14.000 second record, which was about to come out. So and 373 00:21:14.039 --> 00:21:20.200 then I got in. Yeah, and that was it for 374 00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:21.759 the next eleven years or so. 375 00:21:22.359 --> 00:21:23.440 No more window washing. 376 00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:26.480 I'm sure I had I'm sure I'm sure I had 377 00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:28.480 to come back at some point, but eventually it was. 378 00:21:28.519 --> 00:21:30.000 It was a great day when I didn't have to. 379 00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:33.920 Yeah, so, how were these like giant buildings? Were you 380 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:36.079 like one of those window washers that are or is 381 00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:40.880 this just you're doing some office buildings, office and residential? Okay, 382 00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:42.960 so none of those crazy skyscrapers. 383 00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:45.400 No, the first day though, these assholes who who I 384 00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:48.079 worked with, they did like send me up on the 385 00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:51.200 ladder like to do a skylight is I guess that 386 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:54.319 must have been the yeah, you know, to see if 387 00:21:54.319 --> 00:21:56.359 you could hang. Yeah, but they were all right, like, 388 00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:59.480 we would don't tell anyone we would. We would definitely 389 00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:02.240 ditch work and go watch TV at one of the 390 00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:03.440 guy's houses during the day. 391 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:07.799 So that's hilarious. Yeah, I've always wondered about window washers. 392 00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:09.960 I'm like, I don't, like, I don't think I would 393 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:10.640 enjoy that much. 394 00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:11.920 So awesome. 395 00:22:11.960 --> 00:22:15.000 So so you joined Super Chunk, So you weren't on 396 00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:16.680 that tour they were on the mud honey, but you 397 00:22:16.759 --> 00:22:18.880 joined after Is that kind of it didn't pan out? 398 00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:22.119 Okay? Yeah, and then we did a huge European tour 399 00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:24.960 with them maybe four months later. 400 00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:27.799 Okay, so you were kind of on the second f 401 00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:30.279 So they came back and they're like, yes, this is 402 00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:31.240 definitely not work. 403 00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:34.240 Yeah, yeah, it's being in a van. Will sometimes do 404 00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:38.680 to people. And he's great. The guy I took over 405 00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:40.400 from is you know, oh my god, it took me 406 00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:44.440 forever to kind of even approach duplicating. He's super great 407 00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:47.559 at these fast rolls on and which I was never 408 00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:50.279 great

at, but so it took me years to come 409 00:22:50.359 --> 00:22:52.400 up to speed on that. 410 00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:58.160 So how you were in super Chunk forever until somewhat recently? 411 00:22:58.279 --> 00:23:00.839 Right your year two go? Maybe I can't keep tragging 412 00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:01.279 time anymore? 413 00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:01.960 Probably two? 414 00:23:02.680 --> 00:23:05.680 Okay, So how long was that was that you say 415 00:23:05.759 --> 00:23:06.319 ninety one? 416 00:23:06.519 --> 00:23:11.039 I joined in? Uh, it's funny, I joined. I feel 417 00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:15.759 like I I met Laura and maybe Jim the guitar 418 00:23:15.799 --> 00:23:23.839 player at a Nirvana show. It would have been right 419 00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:26.680 when Nevermind came out, So I feel I have a 420 00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:29.440 memory of meeting the two of them that night, and 421 00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:31.200 I think I was in the I think we rehearsed 422 00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:34.640 a few days later, so like late from yeah, yeah, 423 00:23:34.880 --> 00:23:39.880 followup ninety one? Yeah, gotcha? And I I retired, Uh 424 00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:44.319 probably January of maybe two years ago. I think, Yeah, 425 00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:46.240 did they give you a watch or anything? That's a 426 00:23:46.279 --> 00:23:49.960 long time nothing? No, not even a gold watch. Laura 427 00:23:50.039 --> 00:23:52.079 did make that joke though, Laura said, I think we 428 00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:53.400 should give you a watch or something. 429 00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:57.599 Well, good, it's not just me then, no, No, that's hilarious. 430 00:23:57.880 --> 00:23:58.240 Yeah. 431 00:23:58.279 --> 00:23:59.920 So were you just doing a lot of session where 432 00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:02.680 or playing other bands too? When you're a good drummer, 433 00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:04.359 you end up in a lot of bands. That's kind 434 00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:04.759 of the thing. 435 00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:07.400 Yeah, good saying drummers are not easy to find. I think. 436 00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:13.400 So like that River City High record that came through 437 00:24:13.480 --> 00:24:17.359 Brian Paulson, who produced some Super Chunk records, and of 438 00:24:17.400 --> 00:24:22.000 course the Wilco and Sunbolt stuff and awesome. Yeah he's 439 00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:24.680 great and uh so he he brought me and I 440 00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:27.960 had never I hadn't met them before uh that day, 441 00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:30.359 and we did it at this cool stage studio that 442 00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:35.880 David Lowry had in uh in Richmond called the Sound 443 00:24:35.960 --> 00:24:39.720 of Music. Okay, yeah, nice. Nice. 444 00:24:40.039 --> 00:24:42.480 So were you just uh were you playing in any 445 00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:44.440 other bands during this time or was it just. 446 00:24:44.680 --> 00:24:47.559 That's all during super Chunk, all of it, that's all 447 00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:50.839 during Super Chunk. Yeah, so I think that's how people 448 00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:54.119 would find out about me or or you know, uh yeah, 449 00:24:54.119 --> 00:24:56.799 so all kinds of stuff like that, and and you know, 450 00:24:56.920 --> 00:24:59.240 as time went on, I was in the right place 451 00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:03.400 at right time a lot like I mean, he's he's 452 00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:09.759 canceled now, but but but but yeah, yeah, I was 453 00:25:09.759 --> 00:25:12.759 in a bar in Manhattan. God, this would have been 454 00:25:13.319 --> 00:25:15.599 this would have been like spring of ninety eight, I 455 00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:20.359 think and Ryan Adams comes in and and I knew 456 00:25:20.440 --> 00:25:23.240 him because his band would open for a band I 457 00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:27.240 would play in sometimes around here. And and he goes, oh, man, 458 00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:30.759 and like he was looking like this, I'm looking for 459 00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:34.160 a drummer, like a specific like a guy, a specific guy. 460 00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:38.559 And I go, I'm a drummer. And and so I 461 00:25:38.599 --> 00:25:41.920 was leaving town the next day, and he goes, well, 462 00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:47.279 I'm doing this recording session and help oken tomorrow, you know, 463 00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:49.400 play on it. I was like, great, but I didn't 464 00:25:49.480 --> 00:25:52.119 quite trust him, so I said, I'm leave. I'm leaving 465 00:25:52.119 --> 00:25:55.079 at I'm leaving at ten am tomorrow. If I don't 466 00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:57.680 hear from you, I'm gonna go called at nine point thirty, 467 00:25:58.480 --> 00:26:00.559 and and we did it, and I I ended up 468 00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:04.759 playing in Whiskeytown UH on a John Fogerty tour the 469 00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:06.200 next that summer. 470 00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:09.039 Wow, did you record it? You recorded some stuff as well? 471 00:26:09.799 --> 00:26:11.680 Was that on pneumonia or was it just. 472 00:26:12.039 --> 00:26:15.319 Any any anything came out? But so we kind of ended, 473 00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:18.920 you know, acrimoniously, as as as you do. And and 474 00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:22.039 then and then a year later or so, he calls me, 475 00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:24.599 and I was at UH at my job at a 476 00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:28.319 used bookstore here and he wanted me to play on 477 00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:33.440 what would be Pneumonia. Yeah, and so he came down 478 00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:40.880 and and uh, the band was me, him, James E. 479 00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:46.559 Haff from the Smashing Pumpkins as you will, uh, and 480 00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:49.680 a couple of her great local guys who were in 481 00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:52.480 Whiskeytown when I played in Whiskeytown. And it was produced 482 00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:56.839 by by Ethan John's who's Glenn John's son experience, Well 483 00:26:56.880 --> 00:27:00.000 it

was and then so we rehearsed and that was great. 484 00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:02.400 It was really fun. None of these songs, as far 485 00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:08.200 as I know, ever made it onto anything. And Ethan's 486 00:27:08.200 --> 00:27:11.039 final words to me the day he left for I 487 00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:13.160 can't wait to do it. You know what kind of 488 00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:15.279 drums do you like? I said, I'm sure anything would 489 00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:17.039 be great, you know, I'm sure we'll find something great. 490 00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:23.279 Never heard a word from anybody again again. And Ethan 491 00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:26.599 ended up playing the drums on it. And so yeah, 492 00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:29.240 So all that to say, I was in the right 493 00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:31.920 place at the right time there and that's happened all 494 00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:34.960 my life, like got to play, got to record with 495 00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:41.160 Nick Cave, being the pretenders for a night, Bob Bob 496 00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:45.920 mold stuff, you know, all of it. It's just never never, uh, 497 00:27:46.440 --> 00:27:47.680 never rule anything out. 498 00:27:48.279 --> 00:27:51.119 Yeah, and you never heard from Ryan Adams again after that. 499 00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:53.640 I'm sure I saw him over the years, and we 500 00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:58.000 kind of did reconnect just a year before everything went 501 00:27:58.039 --> 00:28:01.079 down again. So yeah, yeah, yeah, I. 502 00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:05.640 Think he's a really great songwriter, and uh, you know, 503 00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:07.880 I think he got away with a lot of poor 504 00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:10.039 behavior for a long time based on that, but I 505 00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:11.799 think that was a step too. 506 00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:14.880 Far right at the at the time I played with him, 507 00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:20.839 he was the most natural musician I'd ever played with. Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah. 508 00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:23.920 I had Phil Launcher on. Oh yeah, Oh my god, 509 00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:24.319 like Phil? 510 00:28:24.359 --> 00:28:27.359 Yeah, Phil, Oh my god. Phil is hilarious. And he 511 00:28:27.400 --> 00:28:29.880 told many of a fine story. Oh I bet yeah, 512 00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:31.920 Oh poor Phil what he had to deal with. 513 00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:34.559 Oh my god. Oh yeah, he's a trip. 514 00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:38.240 So so when does when does Bob come around? Then? 515 00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:40.960 Obviously you grew up being a fan of Bob as 516 00:28:41.079 --> 00:28:42.440 most people did. 517 00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:45.039 Yeah, a huge Husker fan. 518 00:28:45.079 --> 00:28:45.359 For me. 519 00:28:45.480 --> 00:28:47.319 The you know, it's it's so funny. I got I 520 00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:51.599 got to play with all these people. Now. My friend DeWitt, 521 00:28:51.599 --> 00:28:54.680 who is who has been Ram's longtime equipment guy forever, 522 00:28:55.759 --> 00:28:57.960 we met before he got that gig, and and we 523 00:28:58.119 --> 00:29:02.400 joke about the Holy Trinity for us is replacements Hoosker 524 00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:06.119 Do and and R E. M. And so sounds like 525 00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:09.799 you need to move to Minneapolis, right Yeah? Yeah? So 526 00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:11.759 you know, yeah, I was a huge Bob fan my 527 00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:14.240 entire life. I think I probably saw every tour, like 528 00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:17.599 every solo tour, all of it. And I got to 529 00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:20.400 interview him for the Uh it was a tour he 530 00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:23.519 was doing this very kind of controversial tour in terms 531 00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:25.160 of his career. It was the one where he was 532 00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:30.039 playing you know, with backup stuff and all that modulate 533 00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:32.759 I think is the album people weiing, Oh my god. 534 00:29:32.839 --> 00:29:36.680 Yeah yeah, and there were there were like lasting ramifications 535 00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:39.079 from that too, which which was really sad that you know, 536 00:29:39.119 --> 00:29:44.039 people were you know, when I joined, it was very 537 00:29:44.119 --> 00:29:49.039 much you know, digging back out, you know in terms 538 00:29:49.079 --> 00:29:50.720 of like no I play rock and roll. You know 539 00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:53.079 this that was a that was a sliver of my 540 00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:56.839 of my of my thing. And now you all think 541 00:29:56.839 --> 00:29:59.400 I'm share or something, right, you know, so let it 542 00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:04.119 let an art, Yeah exactly, exactly. Yeah. So and I'm 543 00:30:04.119 --> 00:30:06.119 sure if he did that today, no, we would nobody 544 00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:08.039 would bat an eye, you know, it would just be, oh, 545 00:30:08.039 --> 00:30:10.559 this is what this guy's doing now? But in whatever 546 00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:13.640 two thousand whenever that was, that was, that was wild. 547 00:30:13.759 --> 00:30:17.319 So I interviewed him for the Weekly here in Chapel 548 00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:21.160 Hill about that and had a great talk. And then, 549 00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:26.160 you know, fast forward years. Uh, my ex Angie, she 550 00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:29.680 was Bob's publicist when he put out one record on 551 00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:32.960 this label here in Chapel Hill called YEP Rock, And 552 00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:35.319 so I remember going to the record release party in 553 00:30:35.400 --> 00:30:37.440 d C when he was living there and had a 554 00:30:37.480 --> 00:30:40.079 nice talk with him. And so fast forward a few 555 00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:45.319 more years, Brendan Canty is playing drums with him and yeah, 556 00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:48.279 and so Brendan couldn't do this tour that they they 557 00:30:48.319 --> 00:30:51.680 had lined up. Uh. And by

this point I was 558 00:30:51.799 --> 00:30:56.759 friends with Jason Rduci. Uh. Jason Rducy Uh plays bass 559 00:30:56.839 --> 00:30:59.200 with uh with the Bob Molevant and he's the co 560 00:30:59.480 --> 00:31:03.039 headliner of this Michael Shannon rim tour we're doing. So 561 00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:09.480 I first played with Jason in the Robert Pollard band. Uh. Yeah. 562 00:31:09.519 --> 00:31:12.799 So when when Bob Pollard went solo in I don't 563 00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:14.960 know when that was oh five or something or six, 564 00:31:16.559 --> 00:31:20.039 I was in his band with Jason. So fast forward 565 00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:24.000 to this Bob moldtour. Jason calls me asked if I 566 00:31:24.039 --> 00:31:25.519 can do it, and I was in the Mountain Goats 567 00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:27.440 at this point, we had a lot of touring, and 568 00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:29.240 I said, I can't believe I'm about to say this, 569 00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:33.240 but I can't do it. And so then maybe just 570 00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:36.359 like a few weeks later, a month later, I get 571 00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:38.240 a call again from Jason and I'm on tour with 572 00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:40.119 the Mountain Goes. We have two more shows to go 573 00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:45.039 and I'm in I'm in Philly, and he goes, would 574 00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:49.160 you be able to do this this European tour that's 575 00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:50.920 coming up in May and I think it's probably like 576 00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:56.359 March now, and I said, yeah, yeah, I will, and 577 00:31:56.400 --> 00:31:57.960 so we're all excited. And then he called back the 578 00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:00.079 next day it was like, can you finish out this 579 00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:03.759 tour we're on right now? Like the drummer, it was 580 00:32:03.799 --> 00:32:05.839 just the wrong guy for it, yeah, you know, And 581 00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:13.319 so I think they they realized, no, the tour was happening. Yeah. 582 00:32:12.759 --> 00:32:16.000 So they had a little break and by chance, we 583 00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:18.960 had to cancel this Mountain Goes tour of Australia that day. 584 00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:21.920 Your timing is strange, it was insane. Yeah. So I 585 00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:25.440 called Jason and I say, I'm feeling lucky let's do it. 586 00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:29.480 And so final show in DC, they dropped me off. 587 00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:31.039 I was staying at my parents' house. I didn't have 588 00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:33.839 a place yet. I had just separated from my girlfriend. 589 00:32:33.880 --> 00:32:37.119 And uh, I showered and I went to the airport 590 00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:39.119 and flew out to l A and they picked me 591 00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:42.119 up and we played the next night in San Diego. 592 00:32:42.759 --> 00:32:43.920 Didn't rehearse, so. 593 00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:47.759 Just winging it, that was it. Yeah, but I suppose 594 00:32:47.839 --> 00:32:51.200 the old songs you had so you could yeah. 595 00:32:51.319 --> 00:32:53.440 Yeah, And and you know it was like Chuck Berry. 596 00:32:53.480 --> 00:32:56.559 A lot of it was just like watch watch Bob's 597 00:32:56.599 --> 00:32:59.640 foot when it when it goes, when he stomps it down, 598 00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:03.119 that's it's over. That's the end. And it's it's still 599 00:33:03.160 --> 00:33:04.160 like that. Yeah. 600 00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:08.559 I was gonna say, I can actually picture his movements. Yeah, 601 00:33:08.759 --> 00:33:12.839 that's hilarious. So what that was like twenty years ago? No, 602 00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:20.400 that was gosh, that was probably early nine. Okay, So yeah, okay, 603 00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:23.880 so you're fifteen years in. You're gonna get another gold 604 00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:24.319 watch here. 605 00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:27.200 You know. That's great, and we have we have a 606 00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:31.039 great new record coming out. It's really good. God. 607 00:33:31.480 --> 00:33:35.599 Last time I saw you was actually at the State 608 00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:38.880 Fair with Lifter Pole or Lifter with Old Steady. 609 00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:41.160 And who else was on that? 610 00:33:41.240 --> 00:33:44.839 It was the uh D four. Yes, they were great. 611 00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:47.160 H yeah, that was a that was a fun night. 612 00:33:47.799 --> 00:33:51.000 And uh so you you played with Tommy Kean as well, 613 00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:51.279 didn't you? 614 00:33:51.359 --> 00:33:54.599 At some point with uh with Pollard? Right, Tommy was 615 00:33:54.640 --> 00:33:56.200 in our band. I had a poster right here, let 616 00:33:56.200 --> 00:33:59.799 me see it was, uh, Tommy Kean, me Jason and 617 00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:03.000 and it's a great guy who also passed on David 618 00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:08.320 Phillips And I met David. He's an Athens guy, played guitar. Yeah, 619 00:34:08.440 --> 00:34:10.639 he played guitar in it. And he was the guitar player. 620 00:34:10.639 --> 00:34:15.280 And Jack Logan Jack Logan in a liquor cabinet. Jack 621 00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:18.079 is probably maybe best known for doing the artwork for 622 00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:22.599 Tommy Stinson's Perfect EP or what that was? Was that 623 00:34:22.599 --> 00:34:27.119 the with the squirrel? Yeah? Yeah, gotcha? Yeah? And uh 624 00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:31.559 and David also played with Frank Black a lot during 625 00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:34.480 his stuff. That was our band. And Tommy Keane was 626 00:34:34.519 --> 00:34:38.000 one of my favorite songwriters. So great, just so great, amazing. 627 00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:40.639 Yeah, my band used to open for him when he 628 00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:41.119 would come. 629 00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:42.119 From Oh yeah, awesome. 630 00:34:42.119 --> 00:34:45.360 What's your band called High on Stress? It's called YEP. 631 00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:48.800 I've it's possible

I've heard the name. 632 00:34:48.719 --> 00:34:52.760 Right, probably sat online at some point, I'm sure, but yeah, yeah, 633 00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:54.800 we would play with with Tommy when he would come 634 00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:57.320 from so great, great guy. 635 00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:02.760 Super funny. I remember I remember describing him to someone 636 00:35:02.960 --> 00:35:06.639 like and and Tommy Keane's playing too. He he's just 637 00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:08.519 like us. He hates all the right stuff. 638 00:35:11.360 --> 00:35:14.800 So Mark uh Mark, the drummer of High on Stress. 639 00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:18.199 I think you actually played a show with Mark. I 640 00:35:18.199 --> 00:35:20.480 can't remember what the event was. He's in another as 641 00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:22.079 we were talking about earlier, if you're a good drummer, 642 00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:24.719 you're playing in multiple bands. He plays in a band. 643 00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:26.920 I think it was his band, Whiskey Rock and Roll Club. 644 00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:31.199 Played with Super Chunk at some event here in Minneapolis. 645 00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:32.360 Think it was Grumpies or something. 646 00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:35.679 Oh yes, yes, I remember. I didn't get to see 647 00:35:35.679 --> 00:35:36.960 a lot of the bands, but that that was That 648 00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:38.360 was the last time I think I played with Super 649 00:35:38.440 --> 00:35:40.960 Chunk up there, and that that was a fun day. 650 00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:45.239 I remember Mac brought his son with him, and his son. 651 00:35:45.639 --> 00:35:47.239 His son's like a hip kid, but you know, he 652 00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:52.039 was probably twelve or something. And just seeing the backstage 653 00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:55.639 was was Tom hazel Meyer's office, I guess, and just 654 00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:58.480 seeing Tom and a child interact was was very fun 655 00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:02.400 and and Max Son going through the records and like saying, 656 00:36:02.440 --> 00:36:04.639 you know, it's all not like that tough guy stuff, 657 00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:07.000 you know, yeah, you know, but it was hilarious. Yeah, 658 00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:08.039 that hilarious. Yeah. 659 00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:12.880 So Mark the drummer and I went to Tommy's that 660 00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:16.760 kind of life Yeah in La So Mark and I 661 00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:20.239 went out to that and that's great. Ronnie Ronnie from 662 00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:22.719 the Muffs, Yeah, I had agree. He got up at 663 00:36:22.760 --> 00:36:26.239 one point and he said, I just want everyone in 664 00:36:26.239 --> 00:36:28.920 this room to know that Tommy talks shit about you 665 00:36:29.199 --> 00:36:30.079 at least once. 666 00:36:30.760 --> 00:36:35.920 Oh my god. Yeah. Everybody roared, Oh so true, Like yeah, 667 00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:38.800 I'm just so I'm happy that he said that, because yeah, 668 00:36:38.840

--> 00:36:42.960 that's that's that's always been in there too. So funny. 669 00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:47.840 Yeah, it's just his ability to know everyone. Like anytime, 670 00:36:47.960 --> 00:36:50.519 like you'd be standing next to him and random people 671 00:36:50.519 --> 00:36:52.840 would come up, but you know to say hi, who 672 00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:55.320 just go to his shows and he would know everybody. 673 00:36:55.760 --> 00:36:58.400 It's like, how do you remember that? Right? He has 674 00:36:58.400 --> 00:37:07.400 this amazing story of so uh so Peter Jasperson you know, 675 00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:12.639 uh local legend. Uh back in the day he was 676 00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:17.039 he was tour managing the replacements and he U gets 677 00:37:17.079 --> 00:37:21.360 an offer to tour with RM, so so he leaves 678 00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:23.679 the replacements for a little bit and and goes out 679 00:37:23.679 --> 00:37:25.199 with R. E. M. And you know, it comes back 680 00:37:25.239 --> 00:37:28.039 to places. But anyway, so during this Rim tour, which 681 00:37:28.079 --> 00:37:31.719 happened to be several of these big shows with the police, 682 00:37:32.920 --> 00:37:34.559 one of which I saw the first time I saw 683 00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:40.039 Rim so Summer of eighty three, and so Arim apparently 684 00:37:40.280 --> 00:37:45.079 no no real interaction with the police at all, and 685 00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:48.199 possibly to the point of annoyance maybe, you know. And 686 00:37:48.280 --> 00:37:53.599 so the story that Tommy tells is, uh, Rim are 687 00:37:53.639 --> 00:37:56.280 about to go on stage, maybe at Shay Stadium and 688 00:37:56.440 --> 00:38:00.960 uh and they're walking out and Tommy is there, Tommy's 689 00:38:01.039 --> 00:38:06.679 like visiting Ram or Peter whoever, and and out pop 690 00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:11.840 Sting like for the first time, and Sting looks right 691 00:38:11.840 --> 00:38:13.400 at Tommy and goes have a great. 692 00:38:13.239 --> 00:38:21.760 Show, showing you how much he was paying attention. Oh god, 693 00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:27.880 that's hilarious. That's hilarious. So with your your tour dates, 694 00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:31.679 obviously you've been out constantly, right, because well, how do 695 00:38:31.719 --> 00:38:35.079 you manage first of all, your tour schedules with all 696 00:38:35.119 --> 00:38:37.119 of these bands You just I suppose you just kind 697 00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:40.239 of have to coordinate with everybody and say I'm unavailable 698 00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:40.880 here to hear. 699 00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:43.360 Yeah, it's all it's all booked in advance, and you know, 700 00:38:43.400 --> 00:38:48.800 it causes me me great guilt, but it all works out. Uh, 701 00:38:49.719 --> 00:38:51.519 no personal life, so I'm able to do it all. 702 00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:55.039 Well, I suppose it probably becomes it. 703 00:38:55.159 --> 00:38:55.280 Right. 704 00:38:55.320 -->

00:38:57.320 You're out on the road with your friends and hanging 705 00:38:57.360 --> 00:39:00.280 out and doing the things. So well, that's that's cool. 706 00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:03.760 So what are you know you mentioned early on kind 707 00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:05.719 of some of the stuff that you were into. You know, 708 00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:07.840 what are some of your favorite records today when you 709 00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:10.159 look back, the stuff that really holds up that you're like, 710 00:39:10.280 --> 00:39:11.280 this is this is. 711 00:39:11.239 --> 00:39:15.400 The Holy Grail? Here the first one that comes to mind. Uh, 712 00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:18.199 that was the biggest, had the biggest impact on me 713 00:39:18.239 --> 00:39:20.840 as as a kid with London calling by the Clash, 714 00:39:21.320 --> 00:39:25.719 I just remember just loving it and and I just 715 00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:28.679 I really liked you know, you never really know these 716 00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:31.800 people as people, but I just thought these guys seem cool. 717 00:39:31.960 --> 00:39:35.000 And I went to go see that movie Rude Boy 718 00:39:35.199 --> 00:39:38.360 at the Tower Theater with my friends and and it's funny. 719 00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:41.719 I saw it twice. It played played here in the theater, 720 00:39:41.960 --> 00:39:46.119 uh last weekend, so I went both nights and uh yeah, 721 00:39:46.159 --> 00:39:48.599 so that was a big, a big record. What else 722 00:39:48.639 --> 00:39:52.880 I loved them, uh you know, talking about like punk. 723 00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:57.360 I loved the minor threat stuff out of uh you know, 724 00:39:57.440 --> 00:40:02.440 out of Step and uh uh Zen Arcade, flip your wig, 725 00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:04.920 I love to let it Be and pleased to meet 726 00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:08.880 me and uh, you know the first three r M 727 00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:13.960 records I love and uh all that all that stuff, 728 00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:16.119 you know, and like Soul Asylum. Soul Asylum was one 729 00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:18.239 of the best live bands I ever saw. I saw 730 00:40:18.280 --> 00:40:21.199 them twice on on on hangtime at a little club 731 00:40:21.239 --> 00:40:25.039 here and just incredible band. 732 00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:28.599 Yeah lie, like you know, I would say that like 733 00:40:28.719 --> 00:40:30.960 people would you know, people liked him, some people didn't 734 00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:32.360 like the band, and I would tell the people that 735 00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:35.760 didn't like the band, go see the band because they 736 00:40:35.800 --> 00:40:37.599 were incredible, so good. 737 00:40:37.400 --> 00:40:41.960 And and and and great songs. Like I've honestly not 738 00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:46.800 followed them, probably since you know, uh when Sterling Campbell joined, 739 00:40:46.840 --> 00:40:52.239 no offense to him, but but uh, great songs. I mean, 740 00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:55.320 he's

a great songwriter. And then and Danny had you know, 741 00:40:56.119 --> 00:40:58.000 I feel like Danny had one song, but he made 742 00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:00.519 it count that song cartoon Man. 743 00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:02.840 Oh my god, that could very well be my favorite 744 00:41:02.960 --> 00:41:05.360 solo Asylum song. If not, it's in the top few 745 00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:09.679 like and and honestly this is after Sterling. But he 746 00:41:09.719 --> 00:41:11.599 wrote Promises Broken too, which was a hit. 747 00:41:11.639 --> 00:41:12.559 Oh I don't know that one. 748 00:41:12.800 --> 00:41:15.000 Yeah, that was a dim light shine I think o 749 00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:17.920 that Butcher Big did that one. I can't remember, I 750 00:41:17.960 --> 00:41:20.639 think so yeah, yeah, but yeah, so it's like like 751 00:41:20.679 --> 00:41:23.960 you said, he made it count here you go. Yeah, 752 00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:27.519 he's a great guy. I just played with him last 753 00:41:28.199 --> 00:41:29.800 week at this thing here in Minneapolis. 754 00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:33.079 He played guitar with me. Oh great, great, awesome he 755 00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:36.000 he He was very kind helping me with stuff for this. 756 00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:45.639 These liner notes I did for while you were out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 757 00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:50.039 so I did. Yeah. I can't remember how that came about. 758 00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:55.280 Maybe maybe Jefferson suggested me or something, but they signed 759 00:41:55.280 --> 00:41:58.679 off on them, so they must have thought they were okay, nice. Nice. 760 00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:01.639 So looking at your career now, you've been at this 761 00:42:01.719 --> 00:42:04.800 for a long time, You've you've seen many of a 762 00:42:04.840 --> 00:42:08.599 place looking back, I know this is a hard question, 763 00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:11.800 but first thing that comes to mind, what album or 764 00:42:11.960 --> 00:42:13.400 song are you most proud of? 765 00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:18.280 Well, the song that that comes to mind immediately, the 766 00:42:18.360 --> 00:42:20.679 song I've listened to the most for Pleasure that I've 767 00:42:20.679 --> 00:42:25.800 played on is a song on Silver Rage, a Bob 768 00:42:25.840 --> 00:42:30.440 Mold album, and the song is called The Dissent. I 769 00:42:30.519 --> 00:42:33.280 just think it's it's a fabulous song. It's got Yeah, 770 00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:36.920 it's just amazing. I just remember listening to that all 771 00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:39.480 the time. And I rarely listen to stuff I play on. 772 00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:42.360 But do you have a hard time listening to it 773 00:42:42.400 --> 00:42:45.519 because you're nitpicking it or what's the Yeah, that's typically 774 00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:48.000 the thing, right, I could have done this differently. 775 00:42:48.159 --> 00:42:51.119 Yeah, there's a great you know, he's not full of 776 00:42:51.159 --> 00:42:54.320 great quotes, but but there's a Gene Simmons quote where 777 00:42:54.320 --> 00:42:58.039 someone asked him why why they have producers, Like why 778 00:42:58.119 --> 00:43:02.199 you have an outside producer? And he said, because when 779 00:43:02.239 --> 00:43:04.719 I listen to something I've done, I only hear the mistakes. 780 00:43:05.320 --> 00:43:10.719 And you know, you need that objective observer yep. 781 00:43:11.039 --> 00:43:12.920 To need that extra person in the room too that 782 00:43:13.559 --> 00:43:15.159 maybe doesn't have the ego attached. 783 00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:17.800 Yeah. Yeah, but then it's fun it's funny, like I 784 00:43:17.880 --> 00:43:20.840 find that like, like I remember thinking I played so 785 00:43:21.159 --> 00:43:26.199 terribly on this record Foolish by Super Chunk, and people 786 00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:28.559 love that record. But yeah, and then like like five 787 00:43:28.639 --> 00:43:30.880 years later, I listened to it and like, oh, I 788 00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:32.719 don't hear any of the things that I thought were 789 00:43:32.719 --> 00:43:36.639 so terrible like back then. So it's all just sort 790 00:43:36.679 --> 00:43:39.239 of you know, you have to kind of pull back 791 00:43:39.320 --> 00:43:42.679 and just you know, accept it for what it is. 792 00:43:42.719 --> 00:43:44.800 And then by that point you're not you don't hear 793 00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:46.760 it anymore. You don't hear what you what bothered you 794 00:43:46.800 --> 00:43:47.519 so much before? 795 00:43:47.920 --> 00:43:50.079 Yeah, listening to your own stuff for pleasure as a 796 00:43:50.079 --> 00:43:50.800 poor choice. 797 00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:54.679 Oh yeah, terrible, Yeah, but no less it's a like 798 00:43:54.679 --> 00:43:56.880 it's an incredible song like that, like the Bob Old 799 00:43:56.960 --> 00:43:59.920 song I mentioned, is it's that sort of how great 800 00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:04.280 the song is, cancels out any sort of you know, problems, 801 00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:08.840 Like pretty much any of my favorite songs, there's there's 802 00:44:08.920 --> 00:44:12.360 mistakes happening in there, but because you're in the moment 803 00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:14.199 you love the song, you don't hear it, or if 804 00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:15.440 you do hear it, it doesn't matter. 805 00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:18.559 Yeah, And it's funny because sometimes it's the mistakes that 806 00:44:18.679 --> 00:44:21.599 the people who are listening to like what you did 807 00:44:21.639 --> 00:44:23.880 that was really cool kind of a thing, and you're like, yeah, 808 00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:24.639 that was a mistake. 809 00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:30.119 Start me up. Rolling Stones Charlie comes in like upside 810 00:44:30.119 --> 00:44:32.840 down for the first couple of measures and it's brilliant. 811 00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:35.840 Was it a mistake? Who knows? Probably? It's my favorite 812 00:44:35.880 -->

00:44:36.480 part of the song. 813 00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:41.440 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's hilarious. So the next thing I 814 00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:43.679 want to ask too, you've been you were just stunned 815 00:44:43.679 --> 00:44:46.360 the Tonight Show a few weeks ago, I think, yeah, 816 00:44:46.519 --> 00:44:48.320 And you've been on Lightermen. I remember the one you 817 00:44:48.320 --> 00:44:49.840 were knocking the dust off the ceiling. 818 00:44:49.880 --> 00:44:50.400 I remember that. 819 00:44:50.599 --> 00:44:53.880 Oh right, Yeah, so you've done all of these things. 820 00:44:53.880 --> 00:44:57.920 You're constantly touring. Sort of a show that comes to 821 00:44:57.960 --> 00:45:01.559 mind is kind of that you know, magical show that 822 00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:03.000 you were like, I can't believe we did that. 823 00:45:03.280 --> 00:45:06.880 Yeah, there's a bunch for Super Chunk. We we did 824 00:45:06.880 --> 00:45:11.320 a Lollapalooza tour, so it would have been ninety five. Uh, 825 00:45:11.360 --> 00:45:14.719 And we ended in in Raleigh, you know, our our closest, 826 00:45:15.159 --> 00:45:20.880 closest big town, and we played you know outside, we 827 00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:22.360 were we were kind of on the you know, the 828 00:45:22.400 --> 00:45:24.840 second stage. But it was an incredible bill. It was 829 00:45:25.559 --> 00:45:34.880 on our stage. It was Moby Mike watt Us, one 830 00:45:34.880 --> 00:45:36.400 of the Wu Tang guys. Who would it have been 831 00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:43.079 Old Bastard is is redman in you in in Wu 832 00:45:43.159 --> 00:45:45.280 tang or is he not? He might not be. I've 833 00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:48.079 actually seen that man. Okay, it was red Man. It 834 00:45:48.119 --> 00:45:51.039 was red Man. It was red Man and uh yeah, 835 00:45:51.079 --> 00:45:54.920 and it was just an incredible night. It was you know, 836 00:45:54.920 --> 00:45:58.559 it was like it was Golden hour, sun was going down. Uh. 837 00:45:58.679 --> 00:46:00.159 It was our last show of the tour or a 838 00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:05.440 great crowd. I remember that being really nice. Great show 839 00:46:05.480 --> 00:46:10.480 at Shepherd's Bush Empire with Bob Mold probably ten years ago. 840 00:46:10.480 --> 00:46:14.800 That was really great. There's all kinds of Mountain Goats 841 00:46:15.039 --> 00:46:18.440 have had these great New York shows recently at this 842 00:46:18.559 --> 00:46:21.840 uh this place that's on top of a building, holds 843 00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:25.119 about three thousand people, but you're playing you know, the 844 00:46:25.159 --> 00:46:29.079 bridges are in the background. Just beautiful place. So there's 845 00:46:29.119 --> 00:46:31.000 there's all all kinds of shows like that that come 846 00:46:31.039 --> 00:46:32.679 to mind, you know, that are like, oh, well, and 847 00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:35.000 it has to do a lot with the setting too, you. 848 00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:38.559 Know, right, yeah, because there I suppose it's the setting 849 00:46:38.719 --> 00:46:40.480 and the response of the crowd. 850 00:46:40.599 --> 00:46:42.280 Yeah, exactly, you know, because it's. 851 00:46:42.280 --> 00:46:44.840 You know, you're usually playing similar songs each night, with 852 00:46:44.920 --> 00:46:47.159 maybe some stuff kind of jumping in and out. 853 00:46:47.280 --> 00:46:51.840 So yeah, but oh but this this show that we 854 00:46:51.880 --> 00:46:55.280 did with our with the r M Band with Michael 855 00:46:55.320 --> 00:46:58.360 Shannon and Jason. We did a show at the forty 856 00:46:58.360 --> 00:47:01.440 one in Athens last last was it last year? Was 857 00:47:01.480 --> 00:47:03.519 it too? I can't remember when it was. I think 858 00:47:03.559 --> 00:47:06.400 it was last year. But so all the guys came, 859 00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:09.840 all four guys came, and and they got up on 860 00:47:09.920 --> 00:47:12.480 stage and they and they they had words to say, 861 00:47:12.519 --> 00:47:14.760 and Peter played with us, and Bill did, and Mike 862 00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:18.199 and Mike sang and that that was the top five 863 00:47:18.320 --> 00:47:18.719 night too. 864 00:47:19.400 --> 00:47:21.679 Did you did you know ari em prior to that? 865 00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:25.440 Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I've known them for a good while. 866 00:47:25.480 --> 00:47:28.719 And I I've played with Peter a lot over the years, 867 00:47:28.760 --> 00:47:31.800 and and Mike and I were the rhythm section on 868 00:47:32.039 --> 00:47:37.519 Jason Arduci is one of his h solo records. So yeah, yeah, yeah, 869 00:47:37.639 --> 00:47:40.679 And and I've become friends with Bill, which is which 870 00:47:40.760 --> 00:47:42.920 is a whole trip. And he's great and he seems 871 00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:45.599 like a great dude, like just full of heart, Like 872 00:47:45.679 --> 00:47:47.559 every time you see him interviewed, you're like, oh, this 873 00:47:47.599 --> 00:47:50.119 guy's just awesome. Oh yeah, yeah, it means it's important 874 00:47:50.239 --> 00:47:52.840 and it's important to all the all those guys and 875 00:47:52.840 --> 00:47:59.400 and yeah, yeah they're they feel it. That's awesome. Awesome. 876 00:47:59.480 --> 00:48:01.760 What what I'm most proud of? We're kind of getting 877 00:48:01.760 --> 00:48:02.920 here at the time. I want to let you go 878 00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:03.519 go pack. 879 00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:08.000 It's funny. I I'd love to be, you know, remembered 880 00:48:08.039 --> 00:48:10.400 for my music, but I think in terms of, like, 881 00:48:11.639 --> 00:48:13.519 maybe if I could be remembered for one thing, it 882 00:48:13.519 --> 00:48:16.800 would be this this box set that Tom Sharpling and 883 00:48:16.840 --> 00:48:20.719 I put out of of Our like a best of 884 00:48:21.079 --> 00:48:23.960 what we did on the Best Show for about ten years. 885 00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:27.320 And Numero Group put a box

set out of God. 886 00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:30.320 It's probably like eight hours of material. We've got so 887 00:48:30.440 --> 00:48:32.760 much in there. But uh so, I think in terms 888 00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:37.440 of like a creative legacy, that's what That's what maybe 889 00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:41.159 I'm most proud of just become Yeah yeah, I mean 890 00:48:41.159 --> 00:48:42.840 I love the music and I'll you know, I'll do 891 00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:44.840 it till death and it's my main thing. But but 892 00:48:45.480 --> 00:48:48.760 in terms of like something that's just like one hundred 893 00:48:48.760 --> 00:48:52.880 percent or whatever me in terms of like my creativity, 894 00:48:53.000 --> 00:48:54.480 that's that's it. I think. 895 00:48:54.760 --> 00:48:56.800 Do you have any favorite comedians? 896 00:48:57.119 --> 00:49:02.039 Oh? Yeah, but you know, I I love shows and 897 00:49:02.159 --> 00:49:06.320 movies more than actual comedians, Like, like my favorite TV 898 00:49:06.440 --> 00:49:13.800 show ever is Veepe Deep Yeah, oh yeah, And I 899 00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:15.760 just love that like, I could watch I probably watched 900 00:49:15.760 --> 00:49:19.159 every episode at least fifteen times. I just love it. 901 00:49:19.159 --> 00:49:22.760 It's like soothing to me. So things like that. Tom 902 00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:24.800 Sharply and I had. The first thing we bonded over 903 00:49:25.039 --> 00:49:30.840 was Chris Elliott's program Get a Life. Okay, I didn't 904 00:49:30.840 --> 00:49:32.719 know that. I remember him though, Yeah, yeah he had. 905 00:49:33.760 --> 00:49:36.880 Oh he's so good. Yeah, all those people. And but 906 00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:47.039 like comedians, I love Todd Barry, Sarah Silverman's, great Andy Kindler, 907 00:49:47.159 --> 00:49:48.599 all kinds of people. Yeah. 908 00:49:48.679 --> 00:49:51.199 Nice, nice, Yeah, it's funny. I have a theory, and 909 00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:52.679 I think a lot of people have this theory that 910 00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:55.719 musicians want to be comedians and comedians want to be musicians, 911 00:49:56.320 --> 00:49:58.079 and it's somehow you did them both. 912 00:49:58.320 --> 00:50:02.719 Somehow, But it's funny. I well, it's odd. I was 913 00:50:02.760 --> 00:50:07.559 talking to Matt Walsh, who plays Mike on Veep the 914 00:50:07.599 --> 00:50:13.000 other day. We were talking and I told him I 915 00:50:13.039 --> 00:50:15.239 came in comedy through the back door. Like I've never 916 00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:20.000 had any aspirations to do comedy. I always loved it, 917 00:50:20.039 --> 00:50:22.000 but I never saw myself doing it. And somehow I 918 00:50:22.039 --> 00:50:25.840 met Tom Sharpling and it was two guys that don't 919 00:50:25.880 --> 00:50:30.119 really love to be in the spotlight much so we're 920 00:50:30.159 --> 00:50:32.760 able to like build this thing just on the phone. 921 00:50:32.920 --> 00:50:35.559 So I basically I call into his show every I've 922 00:50:35.559 --> 00:50:38.920 been doing it for today's our twenty fifth anniversary of 923 00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:45.199 doing it. But so somehow that's how I got into 924 00:50:45.239 --> 00:50:49.440 the comedy world, just by writing these funny calls with Tom, 925 00:50:49.480 --> 00:50:52.719 And that's how I got in. Everything I ever did 926 00:50:52.760 --> 00:50:55.440 in comedy kind of came from that right place at 927 00:50:55.480 --> 00:50:58.760 the right time. Yeah, totally, totally. What do you attribute 928 00:50:58.800 --> 00:50:59.039 that to? 929 00:50:59.159 --> 00:51:01.159 How are you the guy that's in the right place 930 00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:03.280 at the right time. Is it just luck card you 931 00:51:03.280 --> 00:51:05.880 feel like you're putting yourself out there to have stuff 932 00:51:05.960 --> 00:51:06.719 happen or what do you. 933 00:51:06.960 --> 00:51:09.000 I'll tell you. And I don't talk about this a lot, 934 00:51:09.039 --> 00:51:12.079 but I believe in all the law of attraction stuff, 935 00:51:12.159 --> 00:51:14.559 and I think I think there are there are certain 936 00:51:14.679 --> 00:51:17.159 rules that like that are just sort of in the 937 00:51:17.159 --> 00:51:22.119 ephemera where I had such a hard time getting stuff 938 00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:25.960 going between, like when Super Chunk went on hiatus in 939 00:51:26.079 --> 00:51:30.280 like one and probably till like two thousand and eight 940 00:51:30.400 --> 00:51:33.079 or something, because I was trying so hard, like I 941 00:51:33.159 --> 00:51:36.559 was just like hammering, just trying to get breaks. And 942 00:51:36.599 --> 00:51:40.320 when I stopped hammering, That's when everything came and I 943 00:51:40.360 --> 00:51:42.159 haven't hammered hammered since. 944 00:51:51.519 --> 00:51:57.360 John Worster, that was a blast, right good guy, great story, 945 00:51:57.440 --> 00:52:01.679 accomplished so much and literally one of the best rock 946 00:52:01.760 --> 00:52:06.039 drummers around today. So big thanks to John for being 947 00:52:06.320 --> 00:52:11.559 on the episode, and good luck and say travels on 948 00:52:12.079 --> 00:52:15.880 all of the upcoming tours. We'll be back with more 949 00:52:15.920 --> 00:52:20.199 episodes soon, but in the meantime, thanks for listening. 950 00:52:21.320 --> 00:52:22.800 From a studio twenty four. 951 00:52:23.519 --> 00:53:22.199 This has been the Figure eight podcast. 952 00:53:00.360 --> 00:53:01.559 Because I'm running. 953 00:53:01.400 --> 00:53:08.320 Down long, You're weird. 954 00:53:08.719 --> 00:53:14.639 Because I'm running out long. I can't imagine its sport, 955 00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:19.920 but I brought it out. Weird