התמלול המלא של This Week in Cleantech (10/05/2026) - Inside the Senate's bipartisan permitting reform package

but Paul, you first, and then I'll have things to say. 00:01:58.319 --> 00:02:01.280 I liked this actually, and I liked the way that they did the headline. 00:02:01.359 --> 00:02:04.719 Uh, I'm in favor of what they chose to do here with Washington Monthly. 00:02:04.879 --> 00:02:09.199 So we talk on the show uh from time to time about the Invest in Tomorrow Coalition Pack. 00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:13.759 It's the super PAC organized by solar investors and executives that went after Chip Roy. 00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:15.599 Uh you you know what? 00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:17.120 This is the Mike Casey thing. 00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:28.080 I'll let you get into all of that, but just know that the coalition spent about$5 million through August, most of it uh against three candidates planning to spend$20 to$30 million by the end of the midterms. 00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:37.360 Um, Lohman questions in the piece whether that's enough to really put fear into Washington, because on the other side of the ledger, you might know that the fossil fuel industry is not shy about spending. 00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:42.240 Uh, they dropped more than$200 million in the 2024 elections. 00:02:42.479 --> 00:02:45.919 Uh crypto has spent some$200 million so far this cycle. 00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:51.199 AI linked uh, you know,$200 million linked to AI at least. 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:55.439 So most of the invest in tomorrow coalition's money isn't even coming from clean energy. 00:02:55.599 --> 00:02:58.639 The vast majority of it came from crypto billionaire Chris Larson. 00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:02.479 The group only had 23 unique donors through August. 00:03:02.719 --> 00:03:04.240 Mike Casey, your thoughts. 00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:05.280 I have many. 00:03:05.360 --> 00:03:14.560 Uh first, um to be clear, I uh support this effort uh professionally, and Tom Matsy, who runs it, is a uh is a brilliant friend of mine. 00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:16.960 So I've I kind of have good news and I have bad news. 00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:30.400 The first is I'm gonna quote uh Representative Eric Burleson, who said who described investment tomorrow as quote, almost like a prowling lion looking for the weakest part of the flock, end quote. 00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:32.159 So have they instilled fear? 00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:33.199 Yes, they have. 00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:40.159 And they caught some uh overconfident, clean energy hating uh politicians napping, six of them. 00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:41.840 They're six for six right now. 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:43.120 But here's the big thing. 00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:59.919 The I think the headline, though it describes the rough and tumble of politics with sort of um a a uh the right the view of the righteous, the fact of the matter is policy is downstream of politics. 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:08.240 And if you don't play in politics in a as a disruptor who's disrupting within a big industry, you are being a fool. 00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:21.600 And so if you are a uh

climate tech CEO, whether we work for you or not, on the client side, and you're sitting this out so far, I am asking you, I am pushing you to get off the bench and get into the game. 00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:24.720 Because if you don't, then who? 00:04:24.879 --> 00:04:26.399 If not now, when? 00:04:26.800 --> 00:04:42.560 This is the way things work, and we need to stop as a sector hoping somebody rides over the horizon to our rescue, and we can't dwell comfortably in the hot tub called everything will work out fine because we're lowest cost. 00:04:42.800 --> 00:04:43.519 No, it won't. 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:44.480 That's not the way it works. 00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:45.759 Tall story number two. 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:47.439 Well said, Mike Casey. 00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:51.680 Second story this week from Brad Plumer and Maxine Joslow from the New York Times. 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:55.759 It's titled Trump Sharply Scales Back Fuel Economy Rules for New Cars. 00:04:56.079 --> 00:04:57.360 Tell me about it, Casey. 00:04:57.680 --> 00:05:03.040 Okay, so here there's an there's an old uh Zen Coan, right? 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:05.199 A saying that's love some Zen Coins, hit me. 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:05.439 Yeah. 00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:06.160 Yeah. 00:05:06.959 --> 00:05:15.040 If the Trump administration were to corner the market on stupid, would it's FTC need to bring an antitrust suit? 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:15.920 That is the question. 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:17.439 Meditate on that. 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:29.360 Because with gas going above five dollars a gallon because it's in shortage, the last thing you'd want to do to cripple the U.S. 00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:40.720 auto industry providing electric vehicle choice or our mileage conservative choices would be to get rid of these fuel efficiency standards. 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:51.040 It is the of all the dumb things that we have covered these dummies doing over the last two and a half years, this is about as dumb as it gets. 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:54.079 Like it's just cornering the market on stupid. 00:05:54.240 --> 00:06:00.720 And we could give all the facts and the figures, but to simple math, people are paying more the pump because there's a shortage of gasoline. 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:05.759 Why would you make us less efficient when it comes to gasoline right now? 00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:09.360 It is the absolute dumbest thing we could do, in my humble opinion. 00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:09.680 Paul. 00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:17.839 Yeah, we don't need to bring the economists into this, um, but but the economists are involved, disputing the administration's savings numbers. 00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:24.160 Uh, you may have seen a recent paper come out of the journal Science that found major inconsistencies in the calculations used by the administration. 00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:31.040 MIT's Chris Nittle said that uh when you do the analysis correctly, revoking these standards does not save consumers money. 00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:32.639 And it's for the reasons that Mr. 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:34.079 Casey alluded to here. 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:35.439 It's simple math. 00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:41.040 Um, gas prices are up around$4.50 a gallon on a national average, depending on where you live. 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:45.759 You might be paying even more than that, up more than 40% from this time last year. 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:48.240 And this rollback, it could push U.S. 00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:52.079 car makers toward bigger pickups and SUVs, which are more profitable for them. 00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:55.839 We've seen that, but EV sales are also growing fast in the rest of the world. 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:58.000 Less than 10% of new cars in the U.S. 00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:06.720 uh sold last year were electric, in large part, I believe, because of the uh revocation of that$7,500 rebate that the feds were offering for EVs. 00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:12.399 I think if that was out there now, Mike, coupled with the price of gas, we'd be selling a lot more EVs in the U.S. 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:14.720 But that's just this one humble guy's opinion. 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:16.000 Hit us with story three. 00:07:16.240 --> 00:07:23.759 Yeah, I somewhere there is probably a lobbyist for Chinese automaker BYD that was working this into reality. 00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:26.079 So our third story, uh Michael J. 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:32.879 Korn from the Washington Post, fix it or trash it, how to decide how long to keep your car in home appliances. 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:37.600 We need to just note the headline, doesn't really get to the angle that caught our attention. 00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:43.199 Paul, I thought this was a very important story and it relates to the one we just got done discussing. 00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:43.600 You first. 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:54.480 Yeah, someone who drove a Dodge Neon from the time I turned 15 until I was like almost 30 years old and had put a couple hundred thousand miles on it and replaced it with a junker engine. 00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:57.839 I I understand the economics of this debate very well. 00:07:58.079 --> 00:08:01.920 Sometimes a set of new tires is worth more than the entire value of your vehicle. 00:08:02.079 --> 00:08:05.439 Extrapolate that into our sphere for the purpose of this article. 00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:18.959 A peer-reviewed study published in Science in August found that if you bought a new gas car tomorrow, trashed it, and then drove a brand new EV for a decade, you would still do less harm to the climate than if you just kept driving that car for 10 years. 00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:20.560 Think about that for a second. 00:08:20.800 --> 00:08:26.079 A UC Santa Cruz professor and his colleague ran thousands of data points on lifetime vehicle pollution to come up with this. 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:32.480 And EVs came out ahead in 92% of all scenarios, even if you scrap a brand new gas car. 00:08:32.639

--> 00:08:34.000 It all comes down to efficiency. 00:08:34.159 --> 00:08:37.519 Gas engines waste about 70% of their energy, mostly as heat. 00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:41.440 Uh in an EV, about 90% of electricity goes toward moving the car. 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:43.440 A lot of simple math on the program, Mike. 00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:44.159 Your thoughts. 00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:54.960 Yeah, and I'm gonna say this as someone who drove his Honda Element for 21 years at 229,000 miles, literally till the wheel fell off on the highway. 00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:56.639 So I want to be clear, I got a lot of people. 00:08:56.879 --> 00:09:00.960 I sold that neon for$300 cash in a parking lot to someone, by the way. 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:02.320 I just gave them the keys. 00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:03.840 I didn't even have a title for it. 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:05.600 I they probably didn't do anything good with it. 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:06.639 Anyway, sorry. 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:10.080 So, but here's the big thing about this story. 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:29.600 It it covers in a backdoor way the science that has now shown that EVs are so much more efficient from a fuel standpoint, from an energy standpoint, from a climate standpoint, that the inflection point comes out to four to 7,000 miles a year. 00:09:29.679 --> 00:09:33.039 This is less than half of what the average driver puts on a car. 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:40.240 The EV lead's only growing because the grid's getting cleaner, batteries take less fossil fuels to build, and EV efficiency keeps rising. 00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:44.159 So the same logic does, it turns out, apply to the house. 00:09:44.320 --> 00:09:47.919 Most of the carbon pollution from phones and tablets comes from making them. 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:52.000 So repairing them makes sense, but big appliances burn most of their energy in use. 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:58.879 Today's closed washers have 50% more capacity and use 70% less energy than in 1990. 00:09:59.120 --> 00:09:59.840 Love this story. 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:01.360 Thought it was a killer one. 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:03.039 Uh, Paul, what's our fourth one? 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:04.320 Yeah, that's a good one. 00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:11.679 Although I want to note that I think my washer uses a little more energy when it's walking across the floor when we overfill it, but that's neither here nor there. 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:19.759 Story four this week from Julia Amon at Bloomberg titled Plug Power Inc.'s Electrolyzer Deal for Denmark Jet Fuel Project. 00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:20.639 Tell me about it. 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:21.919 Yeah, Plug Power. 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:26.000 They have been active uh for as long as I have been in this space. 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:27.679 Uh hat tip to these guys. 00:10:27.840 --> 00:10:35.679 They've agreed to supply 280 megawatts of electrizer electrolyzers for Arcadia e-Fuels project Endor. 00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:41.679 It's a facility plan for

Denmark's South Coast that aims to produce sustainable jet fuel. 00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:44.720 No, I'm pretty sure Endor is the moon planet with the Ewoks. 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:46.240 I think you you got that wrong. 00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:47.759 That's a Star Wars reference. 00:10:47.919 --> 00:10:48.960 Anyway, sorry. 00:10:49.279 --> 00:10:55.440 All right, we're gonna have to take it up with Claire Queer in there, but the plant would tap renewable grid power to make hydrogen for jet fuel. 00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:59.919 Electrolyzers use electricity to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:06.879 The deal also sets plug up to be a preferred supplier for four future Arcadia projects in Europe and the Americas. 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:10.879 And plug shares rose as much as 4.3 in New York trading. 00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:17.759 It follows three years of joint engineering work and deliveries will begin once Arcadia's project issues a notice to proceed. 00:11:17.919 --> 00:11:29.679 I love this, and I'll tell you I think plug power stock is worth an investment because if fossil fuel supplies keep being tight, um the aviation sector. 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:36.559 No, you can't so you can't tell me that because I was one of the suckers who bought the top of Plug and lost my pants. 00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:40.799 And I'm not a smart investor, and so that was alongside of a bunch of other dumb investments. 00:11:40.879 --> 00:11:47.679 But I believed in what they were doing several years ago, and I I went along for the ride, and now I've got a big red number in my Robin Hood account. 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:49.200 So don't tell me to buy plug stock. 00:11:49.360 --> 00:11:50.480 I believed in that company. 00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:55.279 Uh yeah, what I'm holding now is probably worth uh a couple bucks. 00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:58.639 I'll buy you a pumpkin spice latte with what I've got in plug now. 00:11:58.879 --> 00:12:03.679 But anyway, not to disparage the company because I truly believe in what they're doing, and I think this is very cool. 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:05.840 Europe needs projects like this too, Mike. 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:10.879 Starting in 2030, uh, more than 1% of jet fuel supplied at EU airports has got to be synthetic. 00:12:10.960 --> 00:12:15.279 It's got to be made from green hydrogen, carbon capture, uh captured carbon, rather. 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:18.320 Uh, and that goes up to 35% by 2050. 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:21.360 But nobody, as you know, in the space is making any of that stuff yet. 00:12:21.440 --> 00:12:24.000 And Plug was one of the, you know, the forebearers in this space. 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:28.720 Um the sustainable aviation fuel airlines reported buying in 2025 was synthetic. 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:31.279 Europe has roughly 60 of those projects in development. 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:33.759 Not a single one has reached a final investment decision. 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:37.279 And Endor, the

moon planet we mentioned, is getting closer than most. 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:40.399 It signed an EU innovation fund funding agreement in March. 00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:44.799 Last week, Uniper agreed to buy 40,000 metric tons a year for more than 10 years. 00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:46.320 Pretty big agreement there. 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:48.799 Uh, about half of what the plant plans to make. 00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:50.480 All right, Mike, let's bring our guests in. 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:51.519 Story number five. 00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:56.559 Number five took five people at a heat map news to compile. 00:12:56.879 --> 00:12:57.360 It's a big story. 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:06.799 Robinson Meyer, Emily Pontecarvo, Jail Holesman, all of them are This Week in Clean Tech Veterans, Matthew Zeitland and Gillian Goodman. 00:13:06.879 --> 00:13:11.519 But we look past our three formers to say, who's the star of that show? 00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:13.759 It is clearly Gillian Goodman. 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:17.039 So we're like, Gillian Goodman is coming on the show. 00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:18.320 Robinson who? 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:19.519 Don't even know that guy. 00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:20.320 All right. 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:25.440 Um, the Senate's big by the Senate's big bipartisan permitting deal explained. 00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:27.600 Hey, Gillian, great to have you here. 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:38.320 If people have not read this very impressive piece of reporting, um, which we want them to do, can you give us the big takeaway from this project that you and your four colleagues have put together? 00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:41.039 Because it's I think this is a really good story. 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:51.200 And good Lord knows we have covered the many, many flirtations of the Senate with a a permitting deal before. 00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:54.399 So tell us what's new and how likely it is to pass. 00:13:55.279 --> 00:14:00.799 I mean, that's the 64, 417-page question here is how likely it is to pass. 00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:05.200 We've seen a lot of uh reactions to it in the past few days. 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:11.120 Um, some sort of Jared Huffman got up and said, you know, that he he didn't like it. 00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:14.799 And the green groups are now organizing to say we don't like it, we don't want it to pass. 00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:23.679 Um, however, a a lot of the sort of more abundance-oriented and more um we must build oriented groups are very behind this bill. 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:27.919 And so the big takeaway essentially is that it's a big change. 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:33.519 I think it cannot be understated how big a revolution in permitting in the US this would be. 00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:49.519 Um and it undertakes that in like across an enormous number of federal functions in terms of how we interpret key environmental statutes, how we plan and deploy energy, um, even how we organize the process of applying for and processing permits.

00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:52.799 So it would it's a really huge bill with a lot to digest. 00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:53.840 We're still digesting it. 00:14:53.919 --> 00:14:55.919 We published uh another story yesterday. 00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:59.440 We've got a couple more in the pipeline for today, and we're even talking about more next week. 00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:01.759 So there's there's really a lot to dig into. 00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:14.799 So I was taken aback a little by the notion that some clean energy folks might be against this bill because based on my understanding of it, and keep in mind, this just came out a few days ago, and so we're all still digesting, as you mentioned, Jillian. 00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:31.759 But my take on it is that it read as a pretty clean energy bill, and particularly so considering what we've been looking at for the last two years in the Trump administration, where a lot of speed to power initiatives have taken the front seat while the carbon reduction initiatives have had to get comfortable in the back. 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:34.559 I think there are a few reasons why. 00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:37.120 And, you know, to be clear, I am on no side here. 00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:39.679 We're just sort of arbitrating everyone's positions. 00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:43.679 So, on the one hand, there are still some sticking points with the bill. 00:15:43.759 --> 00:15:54.480 We're not sure exactly where they are, but from what we've heard, we understand they're with some of the wind provisions and making sure that the administration um cannot simply uh arbitrarily stop wind projects. 00:15:54.639 --> 00:16:04.240 Now, the the bill includes measures to basically define what a pattern of arbitrary treatment would be and makes that illegal. 00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:12.799 However, there are ways that the administration, we've seen the administration get around existing law in so many ways that I think they're still trying to plug a few holes there. 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:20.000 There are a few other reasons why green groups and clean energy groups, largely in favor of this bill, to the best of my understanding. 00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:24.960 It's environmental groups who have a lot of big objections that fall into a couple of different buckets. 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:34.320 One are that a lot of the tech neutral uh provisions apply to oil and gas as well as renewable and clean energy. 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:53.039 So it would facilitate, you know, in theory, and I'm I'm so hesitant to say anything definitive about this bill because again, it's so huge and there's still so much analysis to do, but it would not stop development of oil and gas, which is a huge, like, you know, clean energy and sustainability conservation group uh priority. 00:16:53.360 --> 00:17:03.360 It also would severely limit the ability of groups like Earth Justice, the Sierra Club to sue to stop projects under development. 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:10.319 And these

are the things that come under the National Environmental Policy Act, the National Historic Preservation Act, the Endangered Species Act. 00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:14.079 And that's something we're actively digging into right now and trying to understand. 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:18.559 But you know, what I can say right now is that those effects appear to be significant. 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:20.559 Jillian, I'm gonna put you on the spot. 00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:25.440 If you were a betting reporter, which I know you are not, what are these? 00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:26.640 I'm a betting reporter. 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:27.359 Can I bet on this? 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:28.319 Wait, what is it? 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:30.960 You bet you bet poorly on plug power, Penny. 00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:32.559 Yeah, I bet poorly often. 00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:34.480 You should go against the sign of whatever you're better. 00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:35.440 Yeah, exactly. 00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:37.759 You should go against the public here. 00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:41.359 What's being said about the odds of passage? 00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:46.480 I think it's still too early to say, you know, I'm I'm fairly conservative in where I put my money. 00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:53.279 I think it's still too early to say, um, you know, this it this does seem to have but I mean this does have bipartisan support in the Senate. 00:17:53.440 --> 00:18:02.799 That's that it would need to clear the 60-vote filibuster threshold in the Senate, which means that it would need to keep all the Democrats on, or at least a significant number of Democrats on side. 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:10.240 As far as the House, it depends on Mike Johnson's willingness to bring it to a vote, and that's never a guarantee. 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:13.359 So there's still a lot up in the air. 00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:16.319 Um, and we'll see how the next five weeks unfold. 00:18:17.359 --> 00:18:22.960 It's not they're not gonna bring it to a vote until after the midterm elections, which is another uh important dynamic here. 00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:25.039 Paul, do you want to take a last question? 00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:28.319 Because we are heading toward a sub-20-minute episode. 00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:33.920 Jillian, I just gotta ask, how many times did you have to resist making the Baja Blast joke? 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:35.839 And how many times did you actually make it? 00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:45.599 Because it's not every day that we get one of those clunky legislative acronyms and get to spin it into a delicious citrusy lemon lime drink reference, you know? 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:54.240 Let's say we had some fun coming up with headlines for this story, and you may yet see a Baja Blast joke in a story uh very, very soon. 00:18:54.640 --> 00:19:05.839 I was trying to find a different way out, like banjo and Kazooie, like Baja and Kazooie, but the retro N64 title probably only hits a small subset of the audience that would

that would even begin to understand what I'm getting at there. 00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:07.359 So we go back to the drawing board. 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:10.960 Jillian, most important question is it data centers or data centers? 00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:11.519 Oh, geez. 00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:12.160 He's right. 00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:13.039 Come on. 00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:15.680 I gotta go with data and two words. 00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:17.759 That's that's heat map house style. 00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:18.240 Two words. 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:18.799 Team K. 00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:23.119 Heatmap has a house style and it's data, not data. 00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:26.240 Well, I mean pronunciation is up to you, but it's two words. 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:26.799 Oh, okay. 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:28.880 That is your heart out. 00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:33.519 It's you and Clara Hudson alone on an island in the mispronunciation. 00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:36.240 I'm just saying, but hey, we got to go to our clean tech of the week. 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:36.720 Let's do it. 00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:39.279 Clean tech of the week, drum roll, please. 00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:41.920 It is Gillian Goodman for No, I'm just kidding. 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:42.480 Sorry, Gillian. 00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:44.319 Maybe one day you'll be Clean Techer of the Week. 00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:47.119 It's James Warden, founder of Warden Marine. 00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:48.160 She got excited for a second. 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:49.039 I shouldn't have done that. 00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:52.799 James has been building solar-powered vehicles since the 1980s. 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:53.680 Wow, that's wild. 00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:56.400 He started with a wood and cardboard solar go-kart. 00:19:56.559 --> 00:19:58.720 It won the Massachusetts State Science Fair. 00:19:58.880 --> 00:19:59.839 You still got it, I'm sure. 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:05.039 It went on to help start MIT's solar electric vehicle team, co-founded Selectrio with his late wife. 00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:07.119 Now he's taking that vision to the water. 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:16.000 His startup's true solar 20 boat, uh, named Anita after that ex-wife in her honor, can run all day on six solar panels at about eight miles per hour. 00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:18.720 A bigger version is being built for ferries and river tours. 00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:20.079 Sounds like wild stuff. 00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:23.599 James, uh, you sound like one of those legendary tinkerers. 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:25.440 You deserve the Clean Tech or the Week title. 00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:26.000 Congratulations. 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:26.640 Absolutely. 00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:27.279 Good. 00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:34.160 Shout out to a wonderful producer, Brian Mendez, and Claire Quirin and Alex Peterson for helping us gather these stories. 00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:37.599 You just named the invisible invisible panel of story selectors. 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:38.640 I thought we were going to keep them. 00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:40.079 Oh no, we name them every show. 00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:41.200 Um, I tease. 00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:44.960 Thank you, the listener, for joining us for another round of This Week in Clean Tech. 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:47.200 And one last shout out to Gillian Goodman from Beat Map. 00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:49.119 Please go check out the piece on the permitting bill. 00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:51.359 I think it's the biggest story in our space in quite some time. 00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:56.799 You should learn all about it before it even comes up for a boat in the lame deck uh session, if and when it does. 00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:02.240 If you enjoyed the show today, please subscribe, give a little feedback, share a story suggestion to the email we mentioned at the top. 00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:05.200 And don't forget, you can check out every article we talk about on this program. 00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:10.319 Just click the links in the episode description as well as in the post where this thing lives on factorthis.com. 00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:12.319 Until next time, be good, people.