התמלול המלא של Teaching Teens to Face Social Anxiety (Without Avoidance) - Kaci Jacobellis

are dealing with these bigger issues, these bigger feelings. 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:19.279 And I really wanted to be able to be in a place where I have the time to really help um kids, teens uh develop the skills that um they can use to deal with things like social anxiety. 00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:22.160 Um, and I just feel like this is a helping. 00:05:22.240 --> 00:05:25.839 I'm I'm better equipped in this area to give them what they need. 00:05:26.079 --> 00:05:28.240 You are well equipped, you're doing a great job here. 00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:37.199 My daughter-in-law is a guidance counselor, and uh she's she says we are managers more than anything else. 00:05:37.360 --> 00:05:43.040 Sometimes we're just managing the the day, managing the curriculum, managing the time and all that. 00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:44.319 So I understand that. 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:50.240 Well, we're we're certainly glad that God prompted that change in you and brought you to us. 00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:52.240 I I'll I I'll stick this in there. 00:05:52.399 --> 00:05:54.399 You have two daughters of your own. 00:05:54.800 --> 00:06:01.759 So I'm sure some of what you saw in the school, you were also watching in your own girls and thinking I'd like to be able to help people through this and all that. 00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:02.560 So yeah. 00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:03.199 Good. 00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:10.480 Well, I so I I started by telling a little story about my own experience with social anxiety. 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:15.439 It wasn't the only one by any means, but but just what is it? 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:20.000 What do what do we have in mind when we talk about social anxiety? 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:28.079 Well, social anxiety from like a diagnosable situation is where you have that intense fear of social situations. 00:06:28.240 --> 00:06:33.759 There's uh free uh fear around being embarrassed, judged, being rejected. 00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:49.680 Um, and so when it's at that level, the brain will see social situations as dangerous and not just oh slightly uncomfortable, but danger, even though we know they're physically safe, right? 00:06:49.759 --> 00:06:57.040 And the kid might could logically tell you, like, oh, I'm physically safe, but they're interpreting that situation as danger. 00:06:57.279 --> 00:07:09.759 Um, but like you mentioned, um, that's the extreme, but all people are going to experience some form of appropriate social nervousness. 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:34.399 Um, you know, like you mentioned, moving to a new school or meeting a new friend group, you know, um, there's a lot of um misdiagnosis around social anxiety, disorder, and it's important to for everyone to recognize that there is some commonality that all people have um when it's going to new places or meeting new people. 00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:48.319 So you use the word disorder, so so there's social anxiety that that we just do, but that it reaches a level when it would be diagnosable and it might be in a DSM V or something like that. 00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:49.600 So yeah, yeah. 00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:55.040 Uh do you do you see good things? 00:07:55.199 --> 00:07:59.040 Are there are there good things that that anxiety brings? 00:07:59.199 --> 00:08:05.680 I mean, I'm thinking that sometimes that helps me to focus better, it helps me to to not say dumb things. 00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:06.720 Hardly ever does that. 00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:12.000 I usually say dumb things, but but do you see sometimes this anxiety can be a little bit good? 00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:12.560 Sure. 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:17.279 I think when that anxiety is present, it just shows that uh that you care. 00:08:17.439 --> 00:08:19.040 You know, you care about people. 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:23.839 Um, you want to to bring goodness into your community, right? 00:08:24.079 --> 00:08:39.679 Um, and we all have you know propensity to mess up sometimes, but um having that anxiety shows um a desire for friendships and communities and wanting to treat people well, and so yeah, there can be good things in that, sure. 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:44.879 Well, Casey, I I know this surprises you, but I'm not a teenager. 00:08:44.960 --> 00:08:57.200 Um, I used to be one, and I rem I remember uh even now there'll be moments where I feel socially anxious about things, but as a teenager, it's especially hard. 00:08:57.279 --> 00:08:58.639 Is is that true? 00:08:58.879 --> 00:09:00.399 And if so, why is it true? 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:04.720 What is it about our teenage years that makes social anxiety such an issue? 00:09:05.120 --> 00:09:16.879 Well, the teenage years is developmentally, you know, you reach a point where that belonging need is so important, and that just coincides with the teenage years. 00:09:17.039 --> 00:09:23.679 Yeah, and our brains are not in that place where we're making the the prefrontal cortex, right, is not completely developed. 00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:28.799 So it's hard for us to look at social interactions from a logical perspective. 00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:34.799 And so when there is peer rejection, you know, we don't see that just as someone else's opinion. 00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:41.200 We can take that opinion on ourselves and it can view and it can um sort of taint how we view ourselves. 00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:51.519 Um, but I will say, you know, from working with kids, you it teen um don't take that too literally because this can happen as young as you know, fourth grade and maybe even younger. 00:09:51.600 --> 00:09:54.480 It really just sort of depends on the the child. 00:09:54.799 --> 00:10:02.480 Um, you know, when children are little and they'll go on the playground at a park and they'll play with anyone, they don't, they're not self-conscious, right? 00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:05.919 That kicks in for everyone um at some point. 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:09.919 And it's just developmentally an appropriate, you know, how it happens. 00:10:10.159 -->

00:10:13.840 It's there's just how it works, how our brains are developed. 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:33.120 I I don't know this to be true, but I would think also with the onset of social media, kids are on their phone, they're you know, I mean, six-year-olds are on their phone nowadays, they're comparing all of that has to also have expedited this onslaught of social anxiety. 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:33.759 Sure. 00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:47.120 You know, we already are entering into a time where we become more self-conscious, and then when we see uh things, you know, on social media, whether it's peers or people we don't know, and we begin to make that comparison. 00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:56.399 You know, when when I was in school, um if I had a day where I felt rejected from peers, I could go home and kind of have a reprieve from that, you know. 00:10:56.559 --> 00:11:14.960 Um, but now um if you you could go home and potentially continue to have to interact with those peers or be rejected by those peers, um, and so you never really get a break from it or even get a chance to see yourself in a different perspective because that's following you. 00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:24.720 And at the same time, if um you know there's you're not constantly on your phone or connected, then there may be things you feel like you're missing out on. 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:27.200 And so it's it's just a yeah, it's complicated. 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:31.440 Right. 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:34.799 They're talking about these things, and I don't have that, I don't know what happened. 00:11:34.879 --> 00:11:35.679 I missed that. 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:46.000 Or even things like social media, like memes or you know, jokes that are occurring, they talk about that at school, and if the kid doesn't know about it, it could it can also be isolating. 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:48.559 So it's very it makes things very complicated. 00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:51.039 Well, I I appreciate you. 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:52.080 I admire you. 00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:57.039 I've uh well all of our counselors kind of have a different nation. 00:11:57.200 --> 00:12:00.000 Every once in a while, someone will say, Will you work with teenagers? 00:12:00.159 --> 00:12:01.200 I say, Absolutely not. 00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:05.120 I teens don't have brains or souls, so I'm not gonna work with them. 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:10.960 But uh you have really taken that on and and done such a great job. 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:24.240 What do you say as a counselor when when teenagers come to you or even your own girls, when they come to you and I don't fit in, nobody likes me, uh, this is the end of the world for me. 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:29.039 What do you say to teenagers to help them cope with this social anxiety? 00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:30.480 Well, there's a few things. 00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:37.279 Um, first of all, I think being really careful to be curious about what's going on with them and not judgmental. 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:41.279 I mean, as we mentioned, this is not like what we grew up with. 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:42.720 And so it's hard for us. 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:47.759 I don't think we fully know how much it uh impacts, like we talked about with social media. 00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:52.960 I don't think we fully understand the impacts of that at this point in time. 00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:58.879 So just being more curious about what's going on with them instead of well, just go, you'll be fine. 00:12:59.039 --> 00:13:00.000 That's not helpful. 00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:07.200 Um, also asking questions like, okay, uh, tell me what it's like when you first get to this place. 00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:08.240 How does it feel? 00:13:08.480 --> 00:13:14.320 Okay, and then after they describe that, do you notice that these feelings get better over time? 00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:23.440 And that's a really key kind of idea to know, okay, is this um is this just appropriate developmental nervousness? 00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:33.840 You know, if it gets better over time, then most likely, you know, and also they're gaining skills during that time to help themselves through those situations. 00:13:34.080 --> 00:13:48.000 If it's not getting better over time and they report to you they're having the same level of anxiety throughout the social event, then that might be a time to look for some other kinds of for help in another in a maybe in a counseling. 00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:48.559 Yeah. 00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:58.000 Um, but typically also you mentioned, you know, if they're saying those kinds of things, you know, I don't fit in, is is let's challenge that belief a little bit. 00:13:58.080 --> 00:13:58.240 Yeah. 00:13:58.399 --> 00:13:58.720 Okay. 00:13:59.120 --> 00:14:06.240 Um, it's really more helpful if you can guide them to come up with their own answers instead of giving it to them. 00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:08.960 That's dumb, that'll be right, right. 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:18.559 They won't necessarily appreciate your answer, but if you ask them, okay, so if this was your friend who felt exactly the same way you do, right? 00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:20.480 What would you tell your friend? 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:25.039 We typically are kinder to our friends than we are to ourselves, you know. 00:14:25.679 --> 00:14:30.159 So just take a second now and let's talk to yourself like a friend. 00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:42.000 Um, and that just opens up the perspective too, you know, of it we can become so focused on ourselves that we don't recognize all of the opportunities we have to make this situation better. 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:43.360 Wow, that's good. 00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:51.679 So you're really giving them an opportunity to kind of explore those feelings a little bit more, understand a little bit, kind of normalize it, you know. 00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:52.960 I went through that. 00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:59.360 Your friends probably go through that, and then also give

them a chance to to test themselves. 00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:03.279 Let's try, let's just try it, just go and see how you oh that's good. 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:04.879 That's really it's really important. 00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:16.000 So I how do you how do you know that fine line once we've talked about that, we've we've normalized a little bit, we've given the chance. 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:22.159 How how do you know when to finally say, okay, now just go do it, you know? 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:24.639 We because we know it's better for them, go out there. 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:26.559 How when when do you say that? 00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:28.000 Okay, just go try it. 00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:35.360 First of all, I think it's important to recognize that avoidance doesn't really help anything in the long run. 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:50.399 So when we avoid, so what happens is our brains are, you know, we think like we talked about our brains are seeing the situation as danger, and we have all those symptoms of worry with the butterflies and the sweaty and the heart racing. 00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:52.879 And what happens kind of like you felt about coming into the world. 00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:53.519 Exactly. 00:15:53.679 --> 00:15:54.720 Yes, exactly. 00:15:54.960 --> 00:16:04.320 And so what happens is when you, as the parent, let your child just say, okay, just don't worry about it, which all immediately those symptoms go away. 00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:08.399 So, but what we're teaching our brain is, hey, you were right, brain. 00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:11.120 I was in danger all along, right? 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:21.440 So by actually encouraging them to at least participate to some degree, that gives their brain the opportunity to say, oh, wait, this isn't dangerous. 00:16:21.679 --> 00:16:22.480 I can do this. 00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:28.799 And like I mentioned before, it's giving them the skills and the experience to do even more. 00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:35.600 So start off small, especially if your st your child is already in that avoidant phase, because that's another way you can know. 00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:38.480 Like, do they start avoiding social situations? 00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:45.279 Sometimes even to the extent like they're not gonna go with you to the store or they can't order for themselves at a restaurant, you know. 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:49.519 Um, before they're gonna force to go abroad. 00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:53.519 So, you know, help them start off small. 00:16:53.840 --> 00:17:04.799 Um, whether it's okay, today we're gonna go to to lunch and I want you to order, but before, before the before he the waiter comes, we'll practice it together, you know. 00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:06.640 So give some scaffolding. 00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:14.480 Um, maybe it's hey, I really think it's important, you know, I at this time of year I hear a lot about church camp, okay? 00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:22.640 And that's such a big thing, and and kids can learn so much and grow in their faith and in their friendships, but they're terrified, right? 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:23.039 Yeah. 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:34.799 And obviously we can't control this in every situation, but but hey, let's invite the for this friend to go, you know, that does so many things to just settle and calm that um your the child. 00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:41.920 Um, obviously we can't always do those things, but it is helpful to talk through with them like what are the benefits, you know. 00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:46.880 Um, but I love that concept of scaffolding because we're not letting them off the hook. 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:50.880 We're giving the brain the chance to say, you're not dangerous. 00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:52.240 Build some framework around. 00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:57.200 But you're also, you know, you're you're your child's advocate at that point, and you're on their side. 00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:00.799 So they don't see you as just someone, something else they have to overcome. 00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:01.519 That's good. 00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:02.720 That's great, Casey. 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:06.480 I wish I'd had you there in the fifth grade when I was trying to catch that ball. 00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:07.440 Absolutely. 00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:08.400 That's neat. 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:11.039 Thank you so much for taking the time to do this. 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:13.839 We are we're blessed to have you here. 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:19.599 And the the kid, now you see people other than just teens, but the teens that come see you are blessed, I know. 00:18:19.839 --> 00:18:20.400 So thank you. 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:31.519 Well, we've talked about uh teaching your teens to take a little break, the to get away from the the struggles of social media. 00:18:31.759 --> 00:18:35.119 Two or three things that come to my mind from what Casey has said to us. 00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:39.200 Number one, there's not something wrong with you, you're not flawed. 00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:44.240 This is a very natural thing that that all of us at one time or another have gone through. 00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:55.359 The second thing is I I love that Casey said, be curious about it, be willing to ask questions, ask questions of your teens, ask questions of your friends, ask questions of yourself. 00:18:55.599 --> 00:18:57.599 Why do I feel so nervous about this? 00:18:57.759 --> 00:18:59.599 Why does this make me so upset? 00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:10.000 And then the third thing is I like the idea of scaffolding, of kind of coming alongside, building a support around, but but try the thing. 00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:13.200 You know, let's see if there's not a way to do this. 00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:21.839 Uh what an important conversation to have about uh social anxiety and and and how we can overcome that. 00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:25.839 Uh the psalmist says that you're fearfully and wonderfully made. 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:33.359 God knew this about you, He planned all of this in you, so He certainly can help you to make your way through it. 00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:38.960 I want to thank Casey Jacob Ellis for being a part of this today, and thank you for being a part of this. 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:41.680 Thanks for joining us on Extending Branches. 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:44.960 Extending Branches is a twice-a-month podcast. 00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:46.640 It's produced by Branches. 00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:53.599 It's intended to help you find hope, experience healing, and enjoy growth in your life and your walk with God. 00:19:53.839 --> 00:20:04.160 If you'd like to know more about branches or find some previous Extending Branches episode or some of the other things that we've done, go to branches.org. 00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:19.200 Also, we would love it if this has been helpful for you to like, share the podcast, follow us, all those podcast things that you're supposed to do, whatever platform you're on to let people know about extending branches. 00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:23.599 Jesus said, I am the vine and you're the branches. 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:29.279 Our goal here is to extend that to as many people as we possibly can. 00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:32.240 Thanks for being a part of this branch today.