התמלול המלא של Building an Events Business Through Trust and Emotional Intelligence with Simon Woodward

management, and I can't help myself sometimes. 00:03:55.439 --> 00:04:02.159 I wanted to sort of sit in the background with the production side of things, but yeah, I guess now it's probably a 50-50 split. 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:09.599 There are clients that we work with where we manage the events, and there are clients where we work with where we are full-on production technical services. 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:10.080 Yeah. 00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:13.759 And you said that the consultancy is a big part of this, isn't it? 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:16.800 Sort of advising clients how to do their events. 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:17.360 Yes. 00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:20.160 The consultancy is a great part of the business, actually. 00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:25.920 We work with a lot of property developers, and so we advise them on how to become event ready. 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:29.759 So with the property developers, they all have a public realm piece. 00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:47.199 There are public areas that they want to activate in the future, and we come on board, hopefully, early enough to say if you want to activate this particular part of the site, these are the things that you need to be considering in order to get yourself ready for production companies like me to come in and to produce events. 00:04:47.360 --> 00:04:53.120 You need to be thinking about power, water, drainage, anchoring points, you know, this, that, and the other, yeah, Wi-Fi. 00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:57.600 So we sort of sit there in that respect, making sure that they're event ready. 00:04:57.920 --> 00:05:08.319 If they're not from that world, you know, I was speaking to someone on the other day, and I go, Oh, yeah, it was a company I'm working with in Belfast, and they said one of the biggest issues they had in venues was power, you know, pure and simple. 00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:11.519 I mean, power is one of my biggest bugbears. 00:05:11.839 --> 00:05:15.600 You know, you get all these sites opening and they want to do this, that, and the other. 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:19.040 You know, they've got all these amazing ideas, and you go, brilliant, where's the power? 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:20.639 And they go, Oh, we haven't got any. 00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:24.079 And you sort of sit there going, Well, okay, well, okay, that's good. 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:26.879 That's my first problem, then, is how do I get power to here? 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:29.759 You know, aren't you we can't use generators anymore. 00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:34.240 You know, there's certain sites where even in the physical sense, a generator isn't possible. 00:05:34.399 --> 00:05:40.079 They're dirty, disgusting, noisy, huge, you know, and it's just not an option. 00:05:40.240 --> 00:05:46.240 So I feel for sites that haven't considered it because uh retrofitting is incredibly expensive. 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:52.720 I mean, in some instances, you'd be at ground zero, as it were, and you'd say that before you do this, these are the things you need to think about. 00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:54.079 Well, we hope. 00:05:54.319 --> 00:05:55.439 It's not always the case. 00:05:55.680 --> 00:06:00.879 A lot of the projects that we've been involved with, we have been in a position to advise in advance. 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:06.639 There's a couple of clients that we've got at the moment that, you know, they're complete, they're built, and they are open. 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:12.879 And we're now saying to them, this won't work unless you can, you know, bring power to this particular point. 00:06:13.120 --> 00:06:15.439 You know, lovely idea, but it ain't gonna work. 00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:19.199 So we've sort of kind of glossed over the services that Polar Bear do. 00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:26.639 But if you were gonna give the elevator pitch for what the business actually does, how would you describe Polar Bear Live as a business? 00:06:26.959 --> 00:06:30.639 I would describe this as an event production company, but with a twist. 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:33.199 We mainly work for property developers. 00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:39.600 We understand their needs in terms of public realm activation, building launches, topping out ceremonies, etc. 00:06:39.839 --> 00:06:47.839 And I think we position ourselves in that little niche where we can deal with most things that are thrown our way through our little black book. 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:58.000 I think it's very rare in this world that an event business, I mean, occasionally it happens, sometimes in the sort of pharma sphere, but you know, people say, Oh, well, we work for the event services. 00:06:58.079 --> 00:06:59.600 I always think to myself, yeah, sure you do. 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:02.079 Everyone claims they work in the financial services industry. 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:03.519 That's just simply not true. 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:17.839 But you've clearly targeted the building construction because for an event production company, it's got a natural lifespan, hasn't it, in terms of going from the placemaking or the space making or whatever, all the way through to doing events, you know, the topping out ceremonies or whatever it might be. 00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:20.160 That kind of works for you, doesn't it? 00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:32.240 Yeah, I mean, I think through our work, Battersea Power Station, which, you know, I think is one of our longest in terms of duration projects, um, that's given us the platform to take to other people. 00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:41.439 So what we've done with them has given us a model that we now take to other developers and say, well, actually, there's a lot more that we can help you with than just events. 00:07:41.519 --> 00:08:08.560 You know, we've done that as he, we've built semi-permanent structures, we've built semi-permanent or permanent spaces, we've installed public artworks, we've created marketing suites for them, we've done their sort of large-scale public festivals right the way

through to, I think the simplest thing we've done for them is building a set of shelves that actually reflects the Geary building, is probably the simplest job we've done down there for them. 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:12.800 And so we've taken that model and saying, right, what we've done at Battersea, we can do for you as well. 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:16.560 And so we picked up Olympia as a client, Barclay Holmes, St. 00:08:16.639 --> 00:08:17.040 James, St. 00:08:17.120 --> 00:08:17.600 Williams, St. 00:08:17.680 --> 00:08:25.519 Edwards, they're a client of ours now, the Voyage Exchange, and we've replicated what we do at Battersea for all of those developers, for all of those property owners. 00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:31.759 And that seems to be where, yes, you say it's a niche, and it is a niche, but we speak their language as well. 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:34.799 Yeah, which really helps because it's a different sector. 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:35.600 Completely. 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:43.039 And when you're working alongside developers and major construction firms, they kind of want to know that they're in safe hands. 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:50.159 Because I think probably the worst thing is the bureaucracy and health and safety side of things when you're working alongside massive construction companies. 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:55.600 They don't want, you know, a little event company coming along and trampling all over their construction site. 00:08:55.679 --> 00:09:08.559 But if you speak their language and you understand what it is that they require from you, they are much more open-armed letting you do what you need to do for the client, the end client, who is, you know, the building owner, for example. 00:09:08.720 --> 00:09:10.559 The building owner wants you to do something. 00:09:10.879 --> 00:09:13.600 The construction company don't want you anywhere near them. 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:20.000 If you speak their language, they are much more receptive to what it is that the end client has asked you to do. 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:22.320 And so we've learned the hard way sometimes. 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:26.879 Was COVID the sort of launch point to growing the business exponentially? 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:33.120 Because obviously, without live events, without production, you know, you could use the production skills to advise businesses on their spaces, couldn't you? 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:36.399 And that was essentially the skill that you had that other people didn't. 00:09:36.639 --> 00:09:39.840 I think in a weird sort of way, you've hit the nail on the head there. 00:09:40.159 --> 00:09:44.720 COVID did teach us a big lesson, which was to pivot to go, hang on a minute. 00:09:44.799 --> 00:09:48.879 You know, we've got a big team of freelance, you know, skilled workers. 00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:57.360 And because we were working with developers, and I had all these guys screaming for work during COVID times, we put them to other uses. 00:09:57.440 --> 00:09:59.440 You know, we've got all sorts on our books. 00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:06.879 And so we said, well, okay, well, we're not doing events at the moment, but we can, I don't know, transfer your show apartment. 00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:15.679 You know, we can lay floors, we can paint and decorate, we can put up, you know, stud walling, we can tile, we can plumb, we can rewire. 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:22.399 So let's move all these guys that are screaming for work, let's move them over to the building sector. 00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:24.240 That kept us alive during COVID. 00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:26.399 Gave us a another string to our bow. 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:32.960 And we actually did, in the grand scheme of things for a small event company, we did all right in COVID year. 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:34.320 We didn't do too badly. 00:10:34.480 --> 00:10:38.720 We did uh uh probably a fifth of our turnover, but we still made money. 00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:43.120 I guess you get asked a question, the answer's always yes, and then you figure out how to do it. 00:10:43.279 --> 00:10:45.519 But I guess that really was quite literally. 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:47.759 Oh, by the way, Simon, could you do this? 00:10:47.919 --> 00:10:49.279 Uh yeah, sure, I can do that. 00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:52.080 Because you had the skills, you know, in the team to do it. 00:10:52.399 --> 00:11:00.000 We did, and uh, you know, I think everyone relies on their little black book of who to call in an emergency or who to call when you need something. 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:06.399 I'm lucky that we have a really good little black book, but I think it's the willingness to say yes that helped. 00:11:06.559 --> 00:11:11.519 But it's also, you know, just positioning yourself and saying, right, you know, we're desperate right now. 00:11:11.759 --> 00:11:14.399 What can we do that is going to help you? 00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:20.799 So we were fitting glass screens to desks at one point so that people could come back to work. 00:11:21.039 --> 00:11:30.480 We were decorating show apartments, we were putting up stud walls, we demolished an old marketing suite, you know, it was anything that we could get our hands on. 00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:34.639 Basically walking around various offices and saying, What can we do? 00:11:34.799 --> 00:11:39.200 Because I've got all these guys standing around doing nothing, you know, they live hand to mouth. 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:40.080 How can we help? 00:11:40.159 --> 00:11:41.039 How can we assist? 00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:43.600 You know, and we got work that way. 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:48.159 And I guess you talked about your little black book, which I'm sure is not so little anymore. 00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:56.720 Obviously, you don't do a lot of marketing, you've already said that, but and you get a lot of recommendations because obviously you work for Bath Seed, it's a very visible project. 00:11:56.879 --> 00:11:58.720 And recommendations are so

important. 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:04.000 Do we sometimes overlook reputation within the events world and concentrate too much on sales and marketing? 00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:05.440 Or what do you think about that? 00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:07.440 I think sales and marketing works. 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:14.000 I mean, you know, Sam Gill was a big fan of marketing, you know, a brochure and a website, and that worked. 00:12:14.159 --> 00:12:18.399 I think we do overlook that reputational piece of recommendation. 00:12:18.559 --> 00:12:21.919 I think that's been integral to Play the Bay Live. 00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:23.679 We don't do any marketing at all. 00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:26.559 And like I said, don't look at our website because it's awful. 00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:29.200 But I am in the in the process of updating it. 00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:33.440 But every single bit of work that we've ever got has come through recommendation. 00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:38.000 So I nurture those relationships to make sure that that continues to happen. 00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:51.360 One of those relationships, or one of those that came back was the limpow, which you mentioned previously, which came from the recommendation and you got the gig almost immediately, which is you're kind of the ultimate proof that that it's the most powerful form of marketing anyway. 00:12:51.679 --> 00:12:55.039 Yeah, I mean, again, it comes down to nurturing those relationships. 00:12:55.200 --> 00:13:00.399 So getting to know everybody within a particular business has been a big part of it. 00:13:00.559 --> 00:13:04.080 So we integrated ourselves within Latter C years ago. 00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:14.320 We have a desk at their offices, I get to know everybody, and when people leave as they they disappear off to other businesses, usually within the property sector, and they take us with them. 00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:28.320 And that's what happened with Olympia, that's what happened with EcoWorld, that's what happened with Barclay Holmes, is they're all ex-people that worked at Lattersea Power Station that have seen what we do, and something happens within their business. 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:30.480 They go, Ah, I know a man that can do that. 00:13:30.559 --> 00:13:31.759 You know, that's been amazing. 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:35.919 But it does take a lot of work, and uh, you know, you have to nurture those relationships. 00:13:36.080 --> 00:13:40.960 I mean, Olympia must have been the most amazing gig because the transformation has been staggering, isn't it? 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:42.399 It's a brilliant one to land. 00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:46.000 It's a fantastic side, you know, and it's not entirely finished yet. 00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:47.200 There's still more to come there. 00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:55.039 You know, Olympia Way, which was the old, I think when you were a contractor at Olympia, you used to have to drive down Olympia Way into the car park. 00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:58.559 That's

now all pedestrianised and about 20 metres wide. 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:01.120 When that's fully open, that's going to be an amazing space. 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:03.039 Next door to Pizza Express, wasn't it? 00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:04.159 I seem to remember. 00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:06.240 That's right, yeah, there was a Pizza Express there. 00:14:06.320 --> 00:14:11.360 They've now got wonderful restaurants down there already, but the actual Olympia Way isn't fully open yet. 00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:15.840 They've then built on the roof of the building in between the two Grand and National Halls. 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:19.759 You've got a lovely promenade up there with restaurants and bars on either side. 00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:24.480 You've got an event venue that uh holds 3,800 people. 00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:28.240 There will be theatre that will hold 1,200 people. 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:31.360 So when that's all fully open, it's gonna be an amazing space. 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:36.879 It's got two really strong public realm areas that we can help activate. 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:39.919 And so they brought us in to help them in the future. 00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:48.320 We'll be looking at things like Christmas, summer activations, you know, activations that tie in very nicely with whatever's going on in the halls. 00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:51.840 Um we did a piece with them that was all about hyper Japan. 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:56.879 Hyper Japan is is uh an event that goes into the grand and the national walls every year. 00:14:57.039 --> 00:15:00.240 So we did a whole Japanese piece with them, which is still ongoing actually. 00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:02.559 We've got uh gigs that happen there. 00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:04.879 So it's a brilliant, brilliant site. 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:05.919 Just love that. 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:10.799 I mean, you know, but people pay for a decision-making process that was that quick. 00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:18.159 When we spoke before, you said that you don't spend a lot of time worrying about rigid processes, you're more of a problem solver. 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:21.679 And again, this comes back to the saying yes and worrying about how to do it later on. 00:15:21.759 --> 00:15:22.639 Has that always been you? 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:25.120 Has that always been the Sun Woodward philosophy? 00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:27.519 Yeah, I think Mike will probably tell you that. 00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:29.519 I'm not very good at following processes. 00:15:29.679 --> 00:15:39.120 I would like more, and uh, I've just bought another team member on board, a full-time member of staff who is gonna help to get our processes in order. 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:56.320 Actually, if you looked at my filing, my filing's good, my consistency is good, as in, you know, everything follows a format, but I would say I'm more of a problem solver than I am a following processes kind of guy, and that seems to have worked most of the time. 00:15:57.039 --> 00:15:59.200 But I guess that's much as anything else, Simon. 00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:02.080 That part of that is the people that you surround yourself with, you know. 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:02.799 Do you know what I mean? 00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:05.120 You may not be process-driven, but other people will be. 00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:16.879 You said you've got, you know, great team of people that not necessarily are full-timers with you, but you know a man who can instantly having that sort of network of people must be just vital for you. 00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:24.559 Well, I think it was Andrew Charles who said to me, You're only as good as your weakest supplier, which is a mantra that I actually take with me. 00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:27.039 Is that the only thing you've taken from Andrew Charles? 00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:29.039 That's a really good philosophy to live by. 00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:32.480 You know, when you're working with other suppliers, only work with the best. 00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:36.240 And yes, they do have processes, probably stronger than mine. 00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:38.240 They really carry the can in that respect. 00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:43.039 We're helping someone at the moment literally build a business from the ground up. 00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:46.720 He's got a couple of really good contracts that are giving him a nice income. 00:16:46.879 --> 00:16:55.039 And he's just going to get to a point if he can keep on delivering the way he's delivering, i.e., really well, where he's just gonna fall over because there are just literally not enough hours in a day. 00:16:55.120 --> 00:16:58.720 And we've said to him, look, you're in an unbelievable position right now. 00:16:58.879 --> 00:17:04.160 Just surround yourself with a brilliant team, and very quickly you'll have a very successful company. 00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:05.599 I think that's so true. 00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:06.799 Completely, 100%. 00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:14.640 If you've got trust in your team and they trust you, and you at least share the same values, I think, then that's the making of a great team. 00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:16.640 The sharing the values, I think, is really important. 00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:20.000 That's the definition of creating a culture within the business and all that sort of stuff. 00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:22.480 It's it's that togetherness which is so important. 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:25.519 Yeah, it's always, you know, an employee, you're a colleague. 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:32.799 That was one of the things that separates Mike Kershaw from a lot of bad managers, is you could always go to him with a problem. 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:36.480 And it was never your fault, it was how can I help? 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:44.400 And I think if you have that sort of that culture, that attitude, that trust within your team, then you know, you can build great things from that. 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:49.599 The other thing that really worries me more in

today's world is, I mean, you make a very good point. 00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:50.960 You know, you could go and see Mike. 00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:59.119 I mean, we've got clients who've got completely remote teams, and it's very difficult to get those remote teams to kind of work coherently together. 00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:06.640 And we were discussing this with someone the other day, and it was just interesting that the younger members of our team are really suffering with stress and anxiety. 00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:12.000 And I think it's more because they're not in an office environment than the fact that they're sitting at home. 00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:20.640 They haven't got the opportunity to go and speak to that person and say, I'm struggling today, or how do I do this, or can I come with you on this site visit, or whatever it might be. 00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:22.640 They're not learning the way that we learned. 00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:25.599 No, and I think it's going to change in that respect. 00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:29.119 Psychological safety is a huge thing in my world. 00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:32.319 And you don't get that from remote working, I don't think. 00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:40.160 And the trust and the them being able to knock on someone's door and say, you know, Mike, I've got a solution, but I've got a problem and I need your help with it. 00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:42.319 Yeah, you can't get that from remote working. 00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:49.759 I'm not saying that we shouldn't have remote working because I think it's the new norm and we work remotely a lot. 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:59.759 And I wouldn't want to sort of change that, but you do lose an element of trust and an element of the psychological safety that I think is really important within a company. 00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:04.240 It gets lost when you're doing, you know, stuff like this, like we're doing now, where we're on a Zoom call. 00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:07.599 It's difficult to kind of keep that with remote working, I think. 00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:13.119 I just worry about how you're talking about teams who are suffering from burnout and stress. 00:19:13.359 --> 00:19:18.079 I can't see how you can help that or alleviate that without that human contact. 00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:23.039 And it comes back to what we were talking about the other day about you know everyone going remote during COVID. 00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:30.880 And I was saying, don't believe for one second that this is going to be the new norm, because we're human beings, we need to connect, we need that social interaction. 00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:33.599 You know, I've got two kids, one of who's a chef, which is great. 00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:36.160 So she has to go to her place of work, which is brilliant. 00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:43.359 But the other one is applying for jobs at the moment, and you know, there's the different packages she's getting through, and I'm just going, wow, you know, two days working from home. 00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:44.400 She's 22 years old. 00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:51.359 I wanted to go out and learn quickly and to be surrounded herself on people because the quicker you learn from people, the quicker you move up, and you know, the more successful you can be. 00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:56.960 Um, the other thing that has obviously changed considerably since COVID is AI. 00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:01.680 I know that you are an adopter of AI at our advanced years. 00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:04.319 You know, I've well, I know you use Claude, you use chat. 00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:06.079 Do you think it's really helped productivity? 00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:07.519 I mean, I would say yes, 100%. 00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:09.359 Yes and no. 00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:14.559 I mean, I don't think I actually really know that much about it in the great scheme of things. 00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:17.440 I mean, I see people using it to their advantage all the time. 00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:20.079 There's a couple of things that I've used it for recently. 00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:31.920 CGIs, annoyingly, for the designers that I work with, it can be quite useful to quickly run up a CGI, whereas I used to pay someone, you know, three or four hundred quid a day to create those for me. 00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:36.640 So, you know, you can now stick a photograph into Chat GPT and say make it look like this. 00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:40.079 20 seconds later, you've got your CGI that you can send to a client. 00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:41.680 I mean, that's amazing. 00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:45.920 I've drawn up employment contracts through through AI. 00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:49.279 I've drawn up amazing checklists through AI. 00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:53.440 My worry with it is it's not wholly accurate that you still can check the work. 00:20:53.680 --> 00:21:00.799 I've got a supplier that I work with who is insisting on using AI to generate quotes at the moment. 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:03.440 And I had to say to him yesterday, you've got to stop doing this. 00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:05.039 You need to go back to the original way. 00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:05.839 And he said, Why? 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:09.680 I said, Because it's so obvious that A, there's the consistency. 00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:12.559 Every single one of your quotes is in a different format for a start. 00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:14.640 I said, Have you actually checked what it's saying? 00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:22.160 Because I don't believe you have, because the inconsistencies between what you're charging me for this and what you're charging me for that are vast. 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:25.279 Um I get that it's quicker, but I just don't like it. 00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:27.039 There's too much information there. 00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:30.160 I just need to know how much this is going to cost. 00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:33.039 Not why it's going to cost me, but how much is it going to cost? 00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:34.720 We can deal

with the why later. 00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:39.599 So there are things about it that bear in mind, I've only just scratched the surface. 00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:43.039 I'm sure there are people listening to this now thinking AI is brilliant. 00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:44.559 It does this, that, and the other formula. 00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:47.920 I have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to AI. 00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:50.880 I literally just sparked us again. 00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:57.039 I had a great quote the other day from someone who said it's not AI that is going to take young people's jobs. 00:21:57.200 --> 00:21:59.839 It's people who know how to use AI that are going to take young people's jobs. 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:00.720 Jules. 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:02.160 And I agree with you there. 00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:22.559 That's uh one of the things that I thought, you know, if you're going to start a business in AI now, start a business that instructs AI, if I had someone in my little black book now that could do all of that for me, and all I had to do was pick up the phone and say, tell AI to do this, and it would churn out exactly what I'm looking for, that I would pay for that service. 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:37.680 So just away from Polebear and AI and tech and all that sort of stuff, the one of the most sort of amazing things that you told me last time we spoke that you are taking a master's degree in applied emotional intelligence, which is like, wow, AI didn't even know that was a thing. 00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:41.440 So emotional intelligence, I think, is one of the most important things in business. 00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:45.599 You have to have empathy with the people you're doing business with or working with or whatever it might be. 00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:47.599 What fascinated you so much about it? 00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:48.880 This could be a rabbit hole. 00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:49.440 I appreciate that. 00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:51.759 But it's but I think it's an important rabbit hole. 00:22:52.319 --> 00:23:00.000 So I did a practitioner's course in NLP, for those of you who don't know, neurolinguistic programming, or as I call it now, nothing like psychology. 00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:03.440 This was in 2012 because I was intrigued. 00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:12.000 That then led to an interest in human behaviour, and I did a master's degree in communication behavior and credibility analysis. 00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:17.920 And that I think I completed that in 2020, 2023, 2024, something like that. 00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:22.400 Anyway, so that was like a proper deep dive into human behavior. 00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:27.920 One of the modules on that course was emotional intelligence, and that piqued my interest. 00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:33.200 And as a result, I became a facilitator in emotional intelligence in testing. 00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:34.799 So Cliff Lansley, Dr. 00:23:34.880 --> 00:23:40.559 Cliff Lansley, who is one of my mentors, he's developed a new measure of emotional intelligence called eFactor. 00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:43.680 He's licensed me to deliver that and facilitate. 00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:47.200 So if you came to me and said, What's my EI score? 00:23:47.359 --> 00:23:48.799 I could put you through a test. 00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:51.680 It would give you a score out of 200, similar to IQ. 00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:56.480 Let's say your national average, so you're going to be roughly around about 100, 110. 00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:58.799 You could come to me and say, I want to be better. 00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:01.119 I want to be more emotionally intelligent. 00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:06.480 The difference between EQ and IQ is that you can train EQ emotional intelligence. 00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:14.720 So, you know, through neuroplasticity and uh, you know, the human brain willingness to learn, I can train you to be more emotionally intelligent. 00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:19.759 I can create a personal development plan for you that would, let's say, last six months. 00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:23.279 And at the end of it, we could retest you and see how you've improved. 00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:25.920 You know, we can get you up to sort of 140, 150. 00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:32.160 Once you're in the half 140 mark, as with IQ, you are in the realms of genius. 00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:41.839 Do you think if people came to you and said, listen, I think I have a flaw in my management technique or I have a flaw in my sales technique or or whatever it might be, that this would help potentially? 00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:42.960 Yes, 100%. 00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:54.400 You know, it's it's proven there's so much research out there now, so many studies going into EQ at the moment, and EQ in the workplace, particularly, so emotional intelligence to the workplace. 00:24:54.559 --> 00:25:03.680 There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that this is the way forward in terms of leadership training has to start with with emotional intelligence. 00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:09.440 You know, you cannot create psychologically safe environments at work without emotional intelligence. 00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:13.920 You have to be able to manage your own emotions and other people's emotions. 00:25:14.079 --> 00:25:18.480 And emotions are present at work every single day, whether you realize it or not. 00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:21.839 You know, and a lot of leaders don't take that into account. 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:22.559 But they're there. 00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:24.319 Your staff have emotions. 00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:36.559 And if you don't know how to read those emotions and react to those emotions and also deal with your own emotions, then I think you're lacking skills that lead to that psychologically safe environment. 00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:39.519 How difficult is it in a remote environment then? 00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:42.240 Because it hopefully no one's 100% remote. 00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:51.920 But if

you're only in the office two days a week or whatever it might be, from a leadership technique, that must be really difficult to have that empathy, that emotional intelligence with someone you're not seeing all the time. 00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:55.359 I mean, it adds a layer of difficulty to it. 00:25:55.440 --> 00:26:08.079 That, you know, one of the skills that we can teach is how to read people, not just through being with them, but how to read what you're saying, your body language, your facial expressions. 00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:16.000 So there's still a way that I can connect with you, even online, through being able to detect what's going on with you right now. 00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:22.079 And yes, that's useful, but nothing is ever going to reply that one-to-one interaction. 00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:30.960 Do you find yourself, as a consequence, judging people when you meet them, or you know, if you're working with someone new, do you find yourself sort of saying, Oh, interesting. 00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:35.599 I wonder, you know, I wonder what's going on with your life at the moment, or I can see what's going on with your life at the moment. 00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:36.799 Yes and no. 00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:41.279 I mean, it's not a skill that is is kind of there all the time. 00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:45.119 It takes a lot of concentration to be able to read people. 00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:49.519 You're talking about six communication channels that have to be read simultaneously. 00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:51.279 So it's not something you're just doing all the time. 00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:52.880 You actually have to sort of switch it on. 00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:54.880 What it's done is it's made me more curious. 00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:58.319 I'm more curious about what's going on with other people. 00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:02.000 I'm more susceptible to other people's moods. 00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:05.680 You know, it's like, okay, you know, I can see you're not happy right now. 00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:06.720 Let's talk about it. 00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:07.759 Let's discuss this. 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:09.039 I can just read you. 00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:10.960 There's something going on with you right now. 00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:13.839 Let's address this now and get it out of the way. 00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:16.160 There's that great line from Ted Lasso, isn't it? 00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:17.920 Be curious, not judgmental. 00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:21.759 So I tell you what, Ted Lasso is absolutely brilliant. 00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:25.759 It is the most emotionally intelligent program out there to date. 00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:30.799 And that Dart scene where he's saying, Be curious, that is emotional intelligence. 00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:32.400 Be curious, not judgmental. 00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:35.279 You know, remove those biases, and we all have them. 00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:42.480 It's about recognizing what your bias is in this particular situation and suspending it for that particular moment. 00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:46.880 You know, I'm looking at you, let's say you've got a spider's web tattooed across your forehead. 00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:53.519 You know, immediate judgmental bias is, you know, this guy's, you know, obviously a bit of a psychopath. 00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:54.480 Well, he might not be. 00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:58.480 You've got to develop these alternative hypotheses when it comes to bias. 00:27:58.559 --> 00:27:59.519 And, you know, Dr. 00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:01.279 Cliff Lansley uses this regularly. 00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:10.640 You're in traffic and someone shoots past you and cuts in front of you, and your immediate reaction is to wind the window down and you know speak one's mind, right? 00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:12.960 But develop the alternative hypothesis. 00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:14.079 Maybe he's in a hurry. 00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:23.759 You know, maybe his wife's just gone into labour and he's trying to get home and you know, he needs to get there quickly and that extra bit of time that he's saved by getting in front of you and cutting in front of you. 00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:24.960 Maybe that's why. 00:28:25.119 --> 00:28:30.799 And so, you know, suspend the judgment, develop that alternative hypothesis, and just go, do you know what? 00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:36.079 There's no time for this, because it could be a perfectly logical explanation for why he's doing that. 00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:41.759 I would love to have taken your EQ test before I started doing these podcasts, whatever it was a year and a half ago. 00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:48.720 Because I think the most interesting thing is how much my curiosity has piqued over various different things over the last year and a half. 00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:49.680 I mean, it's fascinating. 00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:59.119 I'm just really interested by asking questions and finding out about people, and not just necessarily from a business point of view, but yes, that's really interesting too, and hopefully it's interesting for the people who listen. 00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:03.599 But it's people ultimately, and I think it's so important to be interested in people. 00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:04.559 Absolutely. 00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:07.200 And it does serve a good purpose for you. 00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:13.440 You know, if you show interest in others, uh you get to know them that little bit better, you know, from a business point of view. 00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:19.440 If that's a client, you know, and you listen, you know, that's the really important thing is to listen. 00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:20.960 Listen to what they're saying. 00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:23.519 You know, I know a lot of people, I I mean, I love to talk. 00:29:23.680 --> 00:29:33.200 One of the things that I have to stop myself from doing is talking too much and listening to people and actually digesting what it is they're saying and them responding. 00:29:33.359 -->

00:29:38.960 But it can really benefit you, you know, with clients and suppliers alike, is hear them out. 00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:42.960 You know, don't interrupt them and you know, oh, we can do this for you, we can do that for you. 00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:44.160 Listen to what they're telling you. 00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:48.880 30 years in, what do you see the future of Polar Bear Live, future of Sun Woodward? 00:29:49.119 --> 00:29:50.880 You must be excited for the next chapter. 00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:55.519 Yeah, I mean, we're really busy at the moment, which is great, probably busier than we've ever been. 00:29:55.759 --> 00:30:03.039 And I feel like Polar Bear Live is annoyingly, after 14 years, is just starting to get going in the last four years. 00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:11.839 But having said that, as a result of what happened in 2020, and then you going, oh, here's an opportunity, but almost by accident. 00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:17.039 Yeah, by accident, instinct kicked in, and I made sure that we still had a business. 00:30:17.119 --> 00:30:24.720 I think, like a lot of people, very nearly lost it, had a couple of uh lucky turns, I guess, but most of it was self-generated. 00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:27.200 So yeah, so the business is going well at the moment. 00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:28.960 I want to continue that. 00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:30.559 I'm also studying. 00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:38.960 Is it coaching or is it I've just started another business with one of my cohorts, which is leadership training, with a focus on emotional intelligence and psychological safety. 00:30:39.119 --> 00:30:41.839 So that's kind of building in the background. 00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:44.400 I guess what's next for Simon Woodward? 00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:45.839 I would like to keep both going. 00:30:46.000 --> 00:31:04.400 I would like to keep Halo Bear alive and running, but I would also like to get into some leadership training and actually sort of impart some of the knowledge that I've gained over the last uh seven years and actually help people to sort of develop that psychologically safe environment in their workplaces that will enable them to grow. 00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:26.880 And again, if anyone's listening to this, if you look at something called Project Aristotle, Project Aristotle was commissioned by Google many years ago, and they looked at what made great teams in their business, and what they found was that the teams that outperformed all the others were the teens with the highest level of psychological safety. 00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:37.440 And so if I can teach that to businesses and say, This has been proven to work time and time again, not just Google, but other companies have shown this to work. 00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:41.359 We can take you from being good to great. 00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:42.960 That's what I really want to do. 00:31:43.119 --> 00:31:44.079 Yeah, you're so right. 00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:48.640 I think there are people who are born with leadership skills and they probably have very high EQ as a consequence. 00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:51.279 But I think I do think it is something you can learn leadership. 00:31:51.359 --> 00:32:04.400 Some people would always be crap leaders, but as you say, if you're on the cusp, you can probably help me to get to a place where I'm a more than adequate leader and I have empathy with my employees and I feel more comfortable in that role. 00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:04.960 Yeah. 00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:10.480 A lot of leaders are promoted to leader without the skills being a leader. 00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:15.440 And it's those leadership skills that we want to try and help promote. 00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:21.440 You know, you may have fallen into a leadership role through promotion, for example, but that doesn't mean to say you're a great leader. 00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:32.240 And so I think we can help people develop that and, you know, turn the productivity of, I don't know, let's say it's a department, turn that productivity in from good to great, you know. 00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:35.920 And Google have proved it, you know, they're not a small company. 00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:40.079 You know, so that's where I see me going over the next few years. 00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:43.359 I'm not saying I'm a brilliant leader myself, but practice what I preach, I guess. 00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:51.440 I make mistakes like everybody, and it's about learning from those mistakes and trying to be better for me, but I'd like to sort of help other people do that. 00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:54.000 And that's again, I harp back to Mr. 00:32:54.079 --> 00:33:00.160 Kershaw, but he did create one of the most psychologically safe environments that I've ever been in. 00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:03.200 And I've I've had some horrendous bosses over the years. 00:33:03.519 --> 00:33:08.960 Mike wasn't one of them, but he did create an environment where it was okay to say what was on your mind. 00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:13.279 Uh, it was okay to admit to a mistake, it was okay to ask for help. 00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:17.440 You know, those all those elements are lead to psychological safety. 00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:26.319 I can direct you to uh an amazing book by Amy Edmondson, I think I've got it probably somewhere around here, called The Fearless Organization. 00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:31.440 So Amy Edmond Edmondson developed this concept of psychological safety. 00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:38.880 And in the book, she talks about all the businesses that have failed because of the lack of psychological safety. 00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:58.400 And when you read that and you sort of digest how things went wrong for those businesses, and she talks about VW and the emissions scandal, she talks about NASA and the two big disasters, you know, and they were all as a result of people not being able to speak up and say what they thought. 00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:02.960 Before we finish, we always finish with a rapid

fire round, which I've got, I'm looking forward to this one. 00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:09.039 So, most influential person in your career could be live or dead, but someone who's influenced your career. 00:34:09.280 --> 00:34:11.519 Not trying to buy promote, but it's Kerl Short. 00:34:11.920 --> 00:34:12.559 Business book. 00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:16.079 I've got several here that we could have a look at. 00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:17.840 Working with emotional intelligence. 00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:19.679 I mean, that's been around for a long time. 00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:23.840 Adaptive listening by uh Nicole Lernbrum. 00:34:24.400 --> 00:34:26.880 We're gonna go through your your whole top shelf there. 00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:30.480 Well, I'm looking, I'm looking, I'm looking around because there's some amazing ones that I've read. 00:34:30.559 --> 00:34:36.079 But yeah, emotional intelligence by Daniel Weldman as well, poisonous people, applied empathy. 00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:40.079 See, I would put Mike Kershaw in the poisonous people bracket, but anyway. 00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:41.679 Your favourite movie? 00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:42.480 Ooh. 00:34:43.039 --> 00:34:45.280 Probably uh Shawshank. 00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:46.480 Yeah, Fares. 00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:53.599 One of the biggest box office flops of all time, Shawshank Redemption, and yet one of the most successful movies uh of all time now. 00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:54.239 Incredible. 00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:55.599 Tim Robbins, brilliant. 00:34:55.920 --> 00:34:58.159 Favourite drink after a hard day's work? 00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:01.119 Ooh, probably a glass of red. 00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:03.280 Yeah, I'm with you there. 00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:08.320 Uh small mountain you were dying, little things that really, really drive you mad. 00:35:11.360 --> 00:35:12.400 How long have you got? 00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:14.719 At the moment, line bikes. 00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:16.960 Story behind the line bike hatred? 00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:24.480 We've had one of those electric bike bays put outside, literally outside my house, and they are everywhere. 00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:29.360 They're all over in the middle of the road, blocking my neighbour's driveway, wanting up the street. 00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:31.920 And we called the council yesterday and they're not interested. 00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:32.960 Yeah, of course they're not. 00:35:33.039 --> 00:35:34.719 They need to spend their money elsewhere. 00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:38.559 Your passion away from polar bear? 00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:40.719 Ooh, well, emotional intelligence. 00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:41.760 Yeah, obviously. 00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:43.280 Uh scuba diving. 00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:46.639 Really, which would also, I suspect, be your hidden talent. 00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:47.599 Oh, is it? 00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:48.719 I don't know about a talent. 00:35:48.800 --> 00:35:50.880 I don't know whether I'm any good at it, but I do it a lot. 00:35:51.199 --> 00:35:54.880 Everyone who is a scuba diver says to me it's the most amazing thing in the entire world. 00:35:55.039 --> 00:35:56.079 Oh, it's it's fantastic. 00:35:56.159 --> 00:35:58.079 I'm going in about four weeks' time, actually. 00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:00.159 Um, dogs or cats? 00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:02.239 God, I've got all of them. 00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:03.840 Yeah, you and me both. 00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:05.519 Cats don't give up monkeys, though. 00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:08.239 And the three people you'd have to dinner and why. 00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:09.760 They can be dead or alive. 00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:13.199 I've always loved the idea of speaking to Winston Churchill. 00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:15.119 And he'd enjoy that glass of red with you. 00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:16.800 He'd enjoy the glass of red with me. 00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:21.199 We could have a cigar together, we could talk about war stories and leadership. 00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:23.840 Billy Connolly, because he's the funniest man alive. 00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:28.000 I absolutely adore the guy, and he has me in hysterics. 00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:32.480 In fact, he's he's my go-to if I'm ever feeling of it sort of down in the dumps. 00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:34.079 Stick some Billy Connolly on. 00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:41.199 Billy and Albert still is one of the first downloads I had is um when when I got my iPhone, and it's I still listen to it. 00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:43.280 Yeah, no, I I love the guy. 00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:44.000 Who else? 00:36:44.159 --> 00:36:45.199 Number three. 00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:46.960 God, there's a few people. 00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:50.880 I would say no, do you know what? 00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:52.079 I can't think of a third. 00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:54.719 Well, I think you know, that just those two would be brilliant. 00:36:54.880 --> 00:36:59.039 Um, and if you weren't running your business or doing your masters, what else would you be doing? 00:36:59.199 --> 00:37:00.079 Probably at the pub. 00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:03.440 A landlord lying in a gutter somewhere, I don't know. 00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:04.880 Well, that's a good sign, right? 00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:06.320 Because you must be doing the right thing. 00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:10.400 Listen, Simon Woodward, thank you very, very much indeed for being a guest on AvedMetters. 00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:11.599 It's been an absolute pleasure. 00:37:11.840 --> 00:37:12.639 Thank you, David. 00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:14.639 Yeah, it's been a real pleasure being on board.