התמלול המלא של Rajeev Ram Interview: Retirement, Breaking Down the Top 10, Reaction to Doubles Cuts, & More

00:05:53.460 --> 00:05:56.500 Um all right, let's see. 00:05:56.660 --> 00:06:02.900 I'll start just in terms of pure like results, if you will, or like moments that happen because of results. 00:06:03.060 --> 00:06:14.660 I say number one was uh winning the US Open for the second time um in 2022 because I also after that became the number one player in the world. 00:06:14.819 --> 00:06:17.379 Um so it was like two birds with one stone. 00:06:17.460 --> 00:06:19.540 We we defended the title, which was pretty cool. 00:06:19.620 --> 00:06:26.420 It you know, only been done, I think, once by the Woodies in the open era, and then you know, with it also became number one. 00:06:26.500 --> 00:06:28.020 It's just it's one of those things for me. 00:06:28.180 --> 00:06:39.700 I I didn't really realize how important and how kind of cool that would feel to actually be, you know, tangibly the best player in the world at at you know in at that time. 00:06:40.100 --> 00:06:49.620 And um, you know, it was a bit touch and go because it was like you know, points and we're losing a bunch that summer and obviously won the US Open the year before, so we're having to defend all of that. 00:06:49.700 --> 00:06:55.379 And so didn't even know if it would work out, but ended up working out, and so that was really, really a special time. 00:06:55.540 --> 00:07:03.140 Um I would say second would be winning my first or second. 00:07:03.220 --> 00:07:06.580 They were special for different white reasons, but my singles titles on tour. 00:07:06.660 --> 00:07:12.020 I just felt like, you know, I played, I began my whole career to be a singles player. 00:07:12.100 --> 00:07:15.379 I I I was at, you know, played singles all through juniors and everything like that. 00:07:15.540 --> 00:07:19.780 So, you know, just to win something at that level was was really neat. 00:07:19.939 --> 00:07:23.939 Um you know, yeah, just you never really know if it's gonna happen or not. 00:07:24.100 --> 00:07:26.980 And once you kind of get going on tour, you realize how good people are. 00:07:27.140 --> 00:07:31.620 So um just to just to actually get through a whole tournament was great. 00:07:31.860 --> 00:07:34.420 Um God, number three. 00:07:35.620 --> 00:07:40.740 Number three would have to be winning my first major um at the Australian Open, the first men's doubles major. 00:07:40.900 --> 00:07:42.660 Um again, same thing, right? 00:07:42.980 --> 00:07:45.220 You play all these years and just don't know if it's gonna happen. 00:07:45.379 --> 00:07:51.620 And you know, yeah, obviously dreams always to win a grand slam and uh yeah, just lucky enough to do so. 00:07:51.700 --> 00:07:53.460 So that first one was pretty pretty unique. 00:07:54.580 --> 00:07:59.140 I want to talk about the the recent uh US Open run with Joe. 00:07:59.540 --> 00:08:01.700 Um y'all made the semifinals. 00:08:01.780 --> 00:08:11.300 I I don't think many people would have picked y'all to make the semis, um, just based

on like form and how good so many other teams were playing. 00:08:11.540 --> 00:08:16.819 Um, but I don't think anybody was super shocked to see y'all make it a run. 00:08:16.980 --> 00:08:26.260 Talk about the run, what clicked, what worked well, um, and kind of knowing that it that it's kind of you know coming to an end as well. 00:08:26.340 --> 00:08:29.700 Um, did that make you play or do anything differently? 00:08:30.260 --> 00:08:32.019 Um, so a couple things. 00:08:32.259 --> 00:08:35.299 Definitely, I don't think many people expected us to do that. 00:08:35.379 --> 00:08:43.860 Our whole team they told us afterwards they were like daily canceling stuff that they had booked for that second part of the tournament because everyone just assumed we'd be done by then. 00:08:44.179 --> 00:08:46.580 Um so yeah, that was interesting. 00:08:46.659 --> 00:08:55.860 And and we hadn't won either one of us hadn't won consecutive matches all year until the US Open, which I didn't I didn't really realize until we talked about it afterwards. 00:08:56.019 --> 00:08:59.939 Um so yeah, so yeah, form wasn't form wasn't great to say the least. 00:09:00.100 --> 00:09:04.179 But um yeah, you know, like But y'all love it there, so yeah. 00:09:04.340 --> 00:09:16.899 No, I you know, we we kind of once we started playing again, uh Wimbledon was possibly want to talk about one of the more disappointing moments in my career was was at Wimbledon this year when I I hurt myself at Eastbourne and I'd kind of known already at that point that Deus Hopen was gonna be my last. 00:09:16.980 --> 00:09:26.500 And so obviously the Wimbledon was gonna be my last, you know, time playing there and playing with Joe again and actually played a really good match in Eastbourne, the match that I ended up hurting myself, I hurt my calf. 00:09:26.740 --> 00:09:32.740 Um, and I thought, you know, like we're really getting somewhere and really, you know, kind of finding good form and was very excited to play there. 00:09:32.819 --> 00:09:40.659 And I thought I just did a little something and it wasn't gonna be a big deal that ended up being, you know, a pretty significant calf injury that I had to rest for like eight weeks. 00:09:40.819 --> 00:09:49.779 So um, but the point is is you know, when we start got to playing again, we you know, we kind of knew where we were and we just sort of set a goal to you know get one day better every single day. 00:09:49.860 --> 00:09:52.179 It wasn't really about results and all of that. 00:09:52.259 --> 00:09:56.819 And it definitely took some of the pressure off, I guess, you know, not looking for results all the time. 00:09:56.980 --> 00:09:58.579 And we just had the right mindset. 00:09:58.659 --> 00:10:12.019 And I think, you know, for me, once we left Canada, like I actually felt like, okay, if we can string a couple of matches together somewhere along the way and get a few more sort of reps in, we'd be in a decent spot for the US Open. 00:10:12.259

--> 00:10:26.819 Um, and so, you know, I think just because of our attitude and how we went about it in the summer, like you know, before would I have expected us to make the semis, probably not, but I wasn't like totally shocked because I just felt like we were doing the right things. 00:10:26.899 --> 00:10:31.539 And obviously we have, you know, history together, history at that tournament and all of those things. 00:10:31.620 --> 00:10:37.779 But, you know, after we played in Cincy and Winston and actually won a couple of matches, I felt like you know, we were starting to play some decent ball. 00:10:37.860 --> 00:10:42.099 And, you know, if we kind of got in the right situation, it could be a pretty good run for us. 00:10:42.339 --> 00:10:42.740 Mm-hmm. 00:10:43.620 --> 00:11:06.179 Um, I was at a couple of the matches, I think the second and third round match, and I wanted to ask this question mostly for the listeners, because I know a lot of people listening who play club doubles run into this situation, and you're such a good teammate, and I've learned a ton from you about how to be a good doubles partner. 00:11:06.579 --> 00:11:11.939 And when I was watching y'all's uh, I think it was the second round match uh on stadium 17. 00:11:12.740 --> 00:11:15.059 Joe was struggling a bit on his serve, right? 00:11:15.219 --> 00:11:18.099 I think you were down a set and maybe a break. 00:11:18.259 --> 00:11:22.819 Um what do you do when your partner is struggling on their serve? 00:11:23.860 --> 00:11:25.299 Yeah, well, tough one. 00:11:25.459 --> 00:11:27.939 We we that was a a real kind of up and down match. 00:11:28.019 --> 00:11:33.539 We actually served for the first set in that one, and he played definitely not his best game, and then kind of it carried through. 00:11:33.699 --> 00:11:50.099 Um you know, I think I think one thing is and this is this is for me the reason that we had any of the success, or maybe the amount of success we did, is because we could have honest and open conversations with each other, you know, especially on the tennis court. 00:11:50.179 --> 00:11:51.539 You don't have very long to figure it out. 00:11:51.699 --> 00:11:54.099 And so, you know, the first thing is I just ask questions. 00:11:54.259 --> 00:11:55.059 Hey, how are you feeling? 00:11:55.219 --> 00:11:55.939 What are you thinking? 00:11:56.099 --> 00:11:58.500 Like, you know, what do you how are you feeling on your serve? 00:11:58.659 --> 00:12:00.980 Obviously, like it's not as good as you would want it to be. 00:12:01.059 --> 00:12:06.740 So, you know, just try and like at least get it out in the open that there is an issue and we can deal with it together, you know. 00:12:06.819 --> 00:12:09.299 And I think that's like the first and foremost thing. 00:12:09.379 --> 00:12:15.860 I I honestly can't remember what happened on that day to like turn it around or make it better. 00:12:15.939 --> 00:12:18.419 I I don't know, but it's almost not even that important, right? 00:12:18.500 --> 00:12:27.779 The the important part is that you address whatever issue it is, and I can trust that my partner was gonna be straight up with me, like and not be like, oh no, I'm fine, I'm fine. 00:12:27.860 --> 00:12:35.699 Like I knew he wasn't fine, he knew he wasn't fine, but it'd like the worst thing would have been if I had said that and he would have just kind of like shoved it off and said, No, I'm good, like we'll just keep playing. 00:12:35.779 --> 00:12:38.500 Like then I think we would have been out of there pretty quickly. 00:12:38.659 --> 00:12:47.860 So, you know, I think I think just opening that dialogue and being okay having a conversation and for either partner to be like, Yeah, I'm she's I'm really struggling. 00:12:47.939 --> 00:12:49.139 Like it's I'm not feeling it. 00:12:49.219 --> 00:12:53.459 And maybe I gave him one cue, maybe he just thought of maybe we talked it out, maybe the coaches. 00:12:53.620 --> 00:13:01.059 I I really don't remember, but the point is that we actually addressed it as a team, which I think is such a valuable thing in those moments. 00:13:01.299 --> 00:13:13.139 And that's the reason doubles is so cool, is because you don't have to be on your best, but you have a teammate to rely on that can really help, whether it's just psychologically or actually on the tennis court. 00:13:13.379 --> 00:13:13.939 Hmm. 00:13:14.500 --> 00:13:24.019 What's like maybe not in that particular match, but what would be an example of like a resolution y'all might come to, like a cue, I think is a word you said. 00:13:24.339 --> 00:13:24.659 Yeah. 00:13:24.740 --> 00:13:48.099 I mean, it could be, you know, anything from hit the serve before you run to the net to throw your toss up a little a little higher to, you know, I mean, both of us have had number of a number of things sort of happen with the serve and other shots where it's not feeling right, but then on one particular day, you you say one thing or two things and all of a sudden you get the feel back and it just kind of builds from there, right? 00:13:48.179 --> 00:13:49.539 You you you get the sort of feel back. 00:13:49.779 --> 00:14:09.059 So it's it's almost like trying to maybe a little trial and error at the time, but sometimes when you're in that mode as a player, it's really difficult to get out of it without somebody else's help because you're so far in your own head, and maybe you just need a little encouragement, or maybe you need a kick in the butt or something, something to sort of you know get the ship going in the right direction. 00:14:09.139 --> 00:14:22.659 And I think that's the important thing is that you know, again, it could be any number of things that could potentially fix or at least mitigate the problem, but if you don't address it properly, you won't even get there in the first place. 00:14:23.059 --> 00:14:23.459 Yeah. 00:14:23.860 --> 00:14:24.819 Yeah, that's really cool. 00:14:24.899 -->

00:14:39.539 I think that's something that um when people talk about you know the doubles players playing doubles against the singles players, you know, it's it's always like, yeah, the doubles players have better net skills, right? 00:14:39.779 --> 00:14:53.539 But that's actually a skill too that probably a lot of the singles players aren't used to practicing is is the the ability to kind of lean on your partner and have that open dialogue and help them figure out, you know, their serve or whatever the issue may be. 00:14:53.620 --> 00:15:00.659 And I think that's something that's probably not talked about a lot, that um is maybe just as or more valuable. 00:15:01.059 --> 00:15:14.980 I would say it was the single most difficult thing for me when I had when I transitioned from singles to doubles was to understand that I can help somebody and also understand that I can be helped on the tennis court. 00:15:15.059 --> 00:15:17.539 Because as a tennis player, you've been playing singles your whole life. 00:15:17.620 --> 00:15:21.779 You're kind of taught that, hey, especially back then, I mean, there was no coaching, nothing, right? 00:15:21.860 --> 00:15:28.259 So you're taught that you got to figure this out for yourself, and it's gonna be, you know, you and versus your opponent out there. 00:15:28.579 --> 00:15:41.299 So all of a sudden you have a teammate you can lean on, they can lean on you, and kind of understanding the power of that was probably the the biggest transition I had to make um when I started to play doubles full time. 00:15:42.419 --> 00:15:45.620 Uh I want to talk about the ceremony as well. 00:15:45.779 --> 00:15:54.899 Um, so after the semifinal match, uh Craig and Eric came out and gave you a um portrait plaque thing. 00:15:54.980 --> 00:15:56.579 Uh I don't I don't know the word for it. 00:15:56.980 --> 00:16:02.980 Um and you gave a speech on the court and um you mentioned your dad. 00:16:03.139 --> 00:16:10.339 So I wanted to ask um what what's one lesson from your dad that you'd like to to share with the world? 00:16:10.659 --> 00:16:23.219 Um you know the so he was the first person I ever played tennis with, and we basically played, I played with him more or less every day that I can remember until I was about 12 years old, and I started, you know, very, very young. 00:16:23.379 --> 00:16:32.099 And I would say the one thing that he made sure I understood was it was never about winning or losing. 00:16:32.419 --> 00:16:44.019 The whole the whole thing was that you really like this, and the the goal was to just get as good as you can, just try and be better every single day, try and play the right way, try and play fair. 00:16:44.259 --> 00:16:47.939 Like I don't ever remember having a conversation with my dad about winning and losing. 00:16:48.019 --> 00:17:01.379 You know, it was always about how did you play, how can you improve, what can you do, you know, and I think that attitude, first of all, is way healthier than

kind of worrying about wins and losses. 00:17:01.539 --> 00:17:19.860 Second of all, it it was the thing that kept me going sort of for as long as I did, just because, you know, I I think I did pretty well for the most part of not getting too up and down with the wins and losses, but more just really focused on how I can get better and and paying really close attention to myself as a player. 00:17:20.099 --> 00:17:30.339 Um, and I think that's a much more, I guess, you know, uh consistent way or or or you know tangible way. 00:17:30.740 --> 00:17:31.539 Sustainable, maybe? 00:17:31.700 --> 00:17:35.299 Yeah, sustainable way, I guess, to to you know have a career, right? 00:17:35.460 --> 00:17:40.259 Because otherwise it's just such a roller coaster out there, and there's so much out of your control. 00:17:41.539 --> 00:17:44.099 Yeah, I think you see a lot of players struggle with that. 00:17:44.259 --> 00:17:47.620 Um and I mean, I think I think also like younger players too. 00:17:47.700 --> 00:17:56.019 I mean, even younger players and parents of younger players, it's just so fixated on winning all the time, you know, and results and rankings and all of that. 00:17:56.180 --> 00:17:59.059 And it's like we never had any of those conversations ever. 00:17:59.140 --> 00:18:04.660 You know, the ranking is what what my ranking was, what it was, whether it was junior tennis or pro tennis or college tennis. 00:18:04.740 --> 00:18:09.779 It was just like, okay, try your hardest, play your best, and work to improve all the time. 00:18:10.019 --> 00:18:10.660 Mm-hmm. 00:18:11.620 --> 00:18:15.940 Um, I want to ask about your your decision to focus on doubles. 00:18:16.099 --> 00:18:23.059 You you've already mentioned that that was one of the hardest things is learning how to lean on a teammate and then also support a teammate. 00:18:23.299 --> 00:18:31.539 Um, talk a little bit more about that decision and what what else was difficult during that kind of transition when you're where you're focusing on doubles more? 00:18:31.779 --> 00:18:32.259 Yeah, sure. 00:18:32.339 --> 00:18:35.460 So it was in 2016 about when I started to have kind of those thoughts. 00:18:35.619 --> 00:18:40.019 And I had one of my best years actually in singles in 2016, but I was definitely getting up there in age. 00:18:40.099 --> 00:18:44.500 I was 36, 32, 33-ish. 00:18:44.659 --> 00:18:46.819 Yeah, I was turning 33 in 2017. 00:18:46.899 --> 00:18:49.940 And in 2016, I played over 100 matches in singles and doubles. 00:18:50.099 --> 00:18:54.899 And I just felt like, you know, if I happened to have another one of those years, that was probably gonna be it, or really close to the end. 00:18:54.980 --> 00:18:59.539 And I didn't want to stop playing tennis without, you know, really giving the doubles a shot. 00:18:59.619 --> 00:19:06.420 I mean, I knew at that point, you know or much before that I wasn't gonna win majors in singles, and that wasn't that was just beyond my capability. 00:19:06.579 --> 00:19:13.859 But you know, I always thought that I had the game for doubles and I had a you know a decent chance if I you know put myself to it or committed to it. 00:19:13.940 --> 00:19:18.579 I didn't wasn't obviously able to do it until I did that, but I I I you know at that point I started thinking about it. 00:19:18.659 --> 00:19:23.700 So it was like 2017 came along and ended up having a good year in the doubles in 2016 as well. 00:19:23.859 --> 00:19:25.460 Made the tour finals for the first time. 00:19:25.539 --> 00:19:30.019 And so I started to, you know, I sort of I kept playing singles that year, but I scheduled for doubles. 00:19:30.099 --> 00:19:37.460 So I wouldn't go play, you know, smaller events, or I, you know, if I was playing doubles, I wouldn't play qualities the next week if I was still in, that kind of thing, right? 00:19:37.619 --> 00:19:45.779 And then the other the one of the things other than the partner stuff that became challenging was, you know, doubles, there's so much less, so many less reps you get, right? 00:19:45.859 --> 00:19:47.779 You know, when you play a singles match, it's just you out there. 00:19:47.859 --> 00:19:54.099 So every time you're returning every side, you're serving every second game, you know, the rallies are longer, like you're just hitting more balls. 00:19:54.259 --> 00:19:56.740 And I was used to kind of playing singles and doubles at both events. 00:19:56.899 --> 00:20:09.139 And so when I started to sort of wean off the singles and not play as much, all of a sudden it was like I could go and play a Monday morning doubles match and lose like a 10-point tiebreaker where it was a couple of no ad sets and a breaker. 00:20:09.299 --> 00:20:13.700 And then maybe my next match isn't for like another 12 days with nothing in between. 00:20:13.779 --> 00:20:20.339 So it was like trying to understand how to actually feel good about my tennis without having the rep count that I was used to normally having. 00:20:20.420 --> 00:20:30.259 That was a big challenge as well, because my balls hit and time on court in a competitive environment was so much more than it, you know, than it was after I stopped singles. 00:20:30.819 --> 00:20:32.420 So how how did you deal with that? 00:20:32.579 --> 00:20:38.819 Is it do you just format your practices differently, or what do you what do you do to kind of solve that? 00:20:39.139 --> 00:20:48.420 Yeah, I think one of the things is we, and this is where you know I had a lot of help from many coaches, but I think uh, you know, when I started I started playing with Joe, that was 2017. 00:20:48.500 --> 00:20:53.940 So I started playing with Joe in 2019, got to work with Louis Caillet, who's probably the most well-known doubles coach in the world. 00:20:54.019 --> 00:21:10.339 And, you know, it just made me understand how to actually practice in doubles in a way that's kind of replicating matches and you know, how to do specific,

specific things and make them count and start to, you know, think of it in a way where you actually apply pressure to yourself in these practices and doubles. 00:21:10.500 --> 00:21:20.180 And I think that was good for me anyway, but I think it was especially good for me because I was coming from that situation where I was used to playing a lot more competitive tennis um because I was playing singles as well. 00:21:20.259 --> 00:21:22.579 So that really, that really helped me. 00:21:23.619 --> 00:21:31.379 I had a conversation, this was probably three, two or three years ago with with Rob Morgan, who who's coached you a bit, I know. 00:21:32.019 --> 00:21:39.619 Um and one of the things he said was that Raj is maybe the best servers partner in the world. 00:21:40.420 --> 00:21:43.220 What are some of the keys to being a good service partner? 00:21:43.379 --> 00:21:49.299 And what are some of the drills that helped you become so good at that position on the court? 00:21:50.019 --> 00:21:52.500 Um, of course, that was nice of him to say for sure. 00:21:52.659 --> 00:21:57.859 I think understanding my identity as a service partner was really important. 00:21:57.940 --> 00:21:58.980 Like, I was not Joe. 00:21:59.139 --> 00:22:04.740 Joe was one of the best athletes I ever played with and saw, definitely the best I ever played with, and one of the best I ever saw. 00:22:04.819 --> 00:22:06.579 So he did it a little differently than I did. 00:22:06.659 --> 00:22:13.779 He he kind of was a bit more dynamic, tried to touch more balls and be a little bit more, you know, yeah, dynamic, move a lot more. 00:22:13.859 --> 00:22:15.379 For me, it was the opposite, right? 00:22:15.460 --> 00:22:19.139 Like the more I moved, the more I got myself in trouble because my balance wasn't as good. 00:22:19.220 --> 00:22:20.180 I wasn't as explosive. 00:22:20.259 --> 00:22:25.220 So I was almost like really understanding my territory and what I needed to cover. 00:22:25.379 --> 00:22:28.259 And if I got my hand on the ball, that was my strength, right? 00:22:28.420 --> 00:22:31.220 My strength was my hand skills, my ability to put the ball away. 00:22:31.379 --> 00:22:36.819 So I prided myself on, yeah, I'm not gonna touch every ball, but if I'm gonna touch it, you're probably not gonna touch it anymore. 00:22:36.899 --> 00:22:39.299 You know, and that was sort of my attitude when I went about it. 00:22:39.379 --> 00:22:42.500 So I think first thing is understanding my identity and who I was. 00:22:42.659 --> 00:22:45.940 Like if the ball went up over my head, I probably wasn't gonna try for it. 00:22:46.019 --> 00:22:49.619 I probably was gonna let my partner go, you know, go get it unless I could definitely get it. 00:22:49.779 --> 00:22:52.339 Um, so understanding my identity and then what drills would I do? 00:22:52.420 --> 00:22:54.579 I mean, I think part of it is just the repetitions of it. 00:22:54.659 --> 00:22:57.859 Like everyone says, Oh, I want to, yeah, I

want to get good at that. 00:22:57.940 --> 00:23:03.700 But you know, at the club level, for sure, I I don't see many people, you know, practicing that position. 00:23:03.779 --> 00:23:06.579 And it's a weird position because you're very close to the net. 00:23:06.740 --> 00:23:11.539 The ball at times comes at you very fast, and the angles are, you know, definitely different than you're used to. 00:23:11.700 --> 00:23:42.899 So just I mean, I remember spending hours with whoever I was, you know coached by at the time just having them feed me balls all different positions from the sort of let's say we're doing it in the deuce side so they do it from the wide position the body position specifically forehand body backhand body from the T then I do it from the I positions I'd go left and right work on poaching not poaching like I mean it's not as simple as just standing there and having someone whack balls at you you're trying to be very diligent and specific with it so that when those situations come you feel like you've actually practiced them and trained them. 00:23:43.139 --> 00:23:49.299 And I think you know there's some certain nuances also with like racket work and trying to be as simple as possible. 00:23:49.460 --> 00:23:54.420 That was a big one for me to think about deflecting the ball as opposed to actually hitting it somewhere. 00:23:54.579 --> 00:24:03.379 But the reality is I just got out and literally did it over and over again a lot because I felt like it was such an important piece of the game. 00:24:04.420 --> 00:24:29.220 Yeah I think the advice or the the word deflecting the ball I think is really important for people to hear because I've started using the word block but I I think I like deflect better actually because when people think of volleys they think of hitting a volley and the the word hit is like an action right like when I when I hit something I'm like taking a backswing and I'm yeah swinging through it and all this stuff. 00:24:29.379 --> 00:24:46.019 And yeah especially that servers partner position like you don't want to hit you like simpler is better like you're saying um so I think that's really I also always I also always felt like that's the one thing that separated like the great teams from the good teams. 00:24:46.180 --> 00:24:55.700 I felt like inevitably in a match in a big situation like there's going to be a point on a second serve and there's going to be a situation where the net player needs to get involved and make something happen. 00:24:55.779 --> 00:25:22.099 And I felt like even when we played I you know I always felt like if we could do that better than anybody we were going to be in a really good spot um just because it felt like when moments got tight the server's partner came into play more so than just in the regular proceedings because you know people serve big maybe they take a whack at a return but you know tiebreakers big moments like people generally tend to hone it in a little bit and so that's when you have a chance to really make an impact. 00:25:23.139 --> 00:25:53.940 Yeah I think that um I'm sure Louie in the the LTA track this but like the win percentage when the server's partner gets a touch right like that that makes sense like the top teams just win a higher higher rate at that on that time I I will say I think I will and and maybe this isn't true anymore but the last I talked to Louie about it I don't remember what year it was but like my win percentage from ball's touch was like the the best of that year I think of like the last however many years. 00:25:54.019 --> 00:25:57.299 And so I was I was pretty proud of that number whatever it was I don't remember. 00:25:57.779 --> 00:26:34.500 Yeah I mean well you saw it like watching you on the court right like they would hit a good return and you'd knock it off for an angle and it's like whoa like and and some of the you talked about it was something that like some of the it separated some of the top teams from some of the maybe a little bit lower ranked teams and and you you see that occasionally it doesn't have to be a tight moment but a lot of times it can be and and it'll be a good return but the service partner will get that touch and they'll miss the volley right and like those top teams don't miss that volley quite as often like it's much more rare. 00:26:35.139 --> 00:26:55.220 So it's a I remember 2021 when we were playing played Mechish Pavich like seven times and they were that was the year that they they were number one by like two thousand points ahead of us and whatever else and I mean that was the one thing like either one of them would serve and if it would go to the net guy the point was over no matter what you what you kind of how you know what kind of pace you got on the return they were just incredible at it. 00:26:55.460 --> 00:26:56.099 Yeah. 00:26:56.740 --> 00:26:59.379 I want to talk about some of the opponents you faced. 00:26:59.619 --> 00:27:08.099 So now that you're retired I I like talking to players who are retired about this more than active players because the active players don't don't want to give too much. 00:27:14.259 --> 00:27:24.019 To start uh share an opponent or a team that you feel like you struggled with maybe more than your ranking would have indicated or more than their ranking would have. 00:27:24.339 --> 00:27:51.460 Oh okay that's interesting more than ranking would have indicated um boy we definitely have had these and I'm drawing a little bit of a blank on who they would be um like a team or a player like by ranking you're like uh you know oh yeah Raj and Joe or Raj and whoever should beat them but like you see them in the draw first round and you're like oh I always struggle against them. 00:27:51.779 --> 00:28:30.420 Yeah yeah I mean I remember thinking for a while we we struggled with we struggled with Mikey Venus a bit um again it's not exactly a guy you would just say like oh I should beat him all the time you know

like it wasn't like that but it it felt like other players other teams did better against him than we did and I felt like his his ability just to have just his sheer power on the ball like it put me for sure and I I have this with other people too just on my heels you know just because it's like he could hit it so hard and from such he wouldn't hold back at all that it was almost a little bit like you just caused uncertainty. 00:28:30.579 --> 00:28:32.659 And I felt like that bothered me a little bit. 00:28:32.819 --> 00:28:35.220 So I I would say he was up there for a while. 00:28:35.299 --> 00:28:43.700 I have no idea what my record is against him but I just remember feeling like that wasn't one that was very fun for me to play against yeah that's a good example. 00:28:43.859 --> 00:28:53.700 I'm trying to think of anyone else where like I mean I have other people but it's they like Mech Dich and Pavich wrong I think we lost to him five times in a row that year. 00:28:53.859 --> 00:28:59.460 Obviously they were an incredible team but I didn't feel like we should lose five times in a row maybe or whatever it was. 00:28:59.619 --> 00:29:04.339 So like sure they're the biggest thing for me for them was just how good they were at as servers partner. 00:29:04.500 --> 00:29:12.019 It was like really annoying that we could never felt like we could get sort of a an in on on them when they were playing at their very best. 00:29:14.420 --> 00:29:20.180 I'll keep thinking if I can think of others but like those couple come to mind straight away. 00:29:20.500 --> 00:29:32.500 So I want to do another exercise maybe this will like jog your memory a bit too I'm gonna go through some of the top 10 and I want to just very briefly like in a sentence or phrase or something what makes them so tough. 00:29:32.740 --> 00:30:17.139 Yeah um so we'll start at the top Henry Patton so I you know I didn't quite get Henry at his very best right like I mean I when I was sort of at the top Henry was just coming up but you know his his all-around skill as a tennis player is really high I mean he's got a fantastic serve he's got a really good return he has a good first volume yeah he's not the the fastest but he's he's able to use what he's got really well actually I kind of look at him and see a little bit of myself in the fact that like we're not the most agile folks around but you know we do do certain things well it sort of doesn't look that explosive but it can be effective and yeah I just I rate his ability to execute in big moments I think he's quite calm and he's just a good presence. 00:30:17.700 --> 00:30:59.460 His partner Harry Hilibarra yeah Harry's good player I mean he was a decent singles player as well um kind of the opposite he can get under your skin a little bit he can be a little annoying uh at times for sure he he would know that I was gonna say that about him too um I think I think he's got a very good backcourt game and I think one of the things I I I have a lot of respect for how much he's improved his serve when he came out on tour I don't think his serve was nearly you know wasn't that good to be honest and I think his serve especially his second serve is very good and he kind of started he he kind of started the backhand lob return uh like the hit backhand lob return I'd never seen that before and I remember playing him a few times and like he has hit a second serve and he actually like hit a lob over your partner which was really different. 00:30:59.779 --> 00:31:05.379 Yeah that's a shot that's becoming a little bit more popular it seems completely and it's because of him. 00:31:05.460 --> 00:32:06.980 I mean he was the first guy I ever saw do that and he did it a lot now everybody else is like well that works let me try it as well so he's kind of the pioneer for that for me are are players doing that I I'd seen it on second are they doing it on first as well no I think it's really tough to second okay yeah on a second serve yeah yeah yeah it's it's such an effective shot um Neil Skupsky uh you know Neil again all around guy you know Neil's best quality for me is I think he's able to play really well regardless of who his partner is like I've played him when he played with Christian Harrison I played him when he played with uh Wes Kulhoff they were really good you know number one in the world and then like he's really good with Dan Evans and he's really good with Jack Sock and he's really good with guys that like I would have a really tough time playing with but somehow he manages those situations and you know makes them feel good makes you know still plays pretty well himself it's like singles guy doubles guy servants day backs he obviously played really well with Joe you know guy I mean Joe and Christian Harrison are about as opposed opposite as it gets for two doubles guys. 00:32:07.059 --> 00:32:12.579 And so I I think his ability to play with different guys has always struck me as being really really good. 00:32:14.099 --> 00:32:25.139 Christian Harrison uh same similar to like Harry you know very good singles player I think he would have been an even you know very very good player had he not had all of his injury issues just a pure ball striker hits it a ton. 00:32:25.220 --> 00:32:36.339 I mean the guy can absolutely smash it off of both sides and you know improving everything else but hard worker diligent just a but I mean his pace of shot is incredible. 00:32:37.059 --> 00:32:38.420 Horatio Zabios. 00:32:39.220 --> 00:33:05.139 Also another amazingly good singles player probably you know one of the guys I played the most in my life both in singles and doubles um if I were to pick one thing that I think is underrated I think people don't realize how good his serve is um I think he's able to hit the lefty spots but he's also able to hit the non-lefty spots really well I always felt like when I was returning his serve on the ad court like that T serve he owned that thing I mean he

could hit a kick serve down the T better than any other lefty I think I played. 00:33:05.220 --> 00:33:13.299 And so um I would say I would say those things and and it's just his like competitive spirit is really good. 00:33:14.339 --> 00:33:26.980 Uh Marcel Gernulers competitive spirit was the best I ever played he was he was like my benchmark um when Joe and I would play him and and Horacio like my whole goal in the match was to compete as hard as Marcel. 00:33:27.220 --> 00:33:27.940 That that was it. 00:33:28.099 --> 00:33:41.139 And so I think you know I had the pleasure of playing with him once um and then played against him a zillion times and I just felt like there was shots and different things and he had very good feel and he had a very good kind of eye for the game. 00:33:41.220 --> 00:34:11.780 He always seemed to be in the right spot could defend you know really well and just read the game really well but bar none his best quality for me was his competitive ability is that how do you define competitive spirit like you know he he just never got down on himself he pumped his partner up really well he was able to control the flow of the match just with his energy he made you sort of feel him on the court never felt like down or low it always felt like he was you know he was controlling things he was you know the the energy leader out of everybody. 00:34:11.860 --> 00:34:14.500 I felt that I played him in singles too and I felt the exact same thing. 00:34:15.220 --> 00:34:26.740 So that was always my like it was the number one task that I had when we played them is I have to be more sort of you know controlling and and boisterous than Marcel. 00:34:28.019 --> 00:34:38.260 Yeah I I guess I see that yeah now that you mention it with his I mean he's vocal but also like his body language is very kind of he's like upright as his shoulders back real positive. 00:34:38.579 --> 00:34:57.940 Yeah you know he loses a point he's pumping his fist at his partner come on next one we're right there we're you know all of that stuff and I I felt like yeah it's funny it's it's it's an interesting discussion because these are probably things nobody would ever know I would never have said that if I was still playing you know but like that was our that was our whole scouting report is you know yeah they do this and they do this and this but Roger you got to be as loud as Marcel. 00:34:58.099 --> 00:35:09.300 Okay we'll start with let's go with that you know yeah this is why I was looking forward to this so much I've been wanting to ask you these questions for like five years now and now we can do it. 00:35:09.460 --> 00:35:24.739 Um a few more here Andre Vavasori yeah we played him a couple of times again yeah I would say caught him at one of the times at his sort of best or close to his best level um Bavasori had a had a really good serve. 00:35:24.820 --> 00:35:31.699 We went through a French open match in the quarterfinals when I think he missed it was a

three set match and I think he missed two serves to me the whole day. 00:35:31.860 --> 00:35:35.380 So like I'm like literally two first serves he missed the whole day. 00:35:35.460 --> 00:35:44.659 So he had a really unique ability to put a lot of shape on the ball have a lot of margin but not really take much risk um especially on my side I felt like with the kick serve on the ad. 00:35:45.460 --> 00:35:55.539 But I felt like Vavasori super good athlete very similar to Joe I would think I would say sometimes he could just get like he could almost get a little out of control if there was a weakness. 00:35:55.699 --> 00:36:12.420 So you know there were moments where you could sort of yeah ruffle his feathers a little bit but if you let him sort of feel comfortable and get set I thought he could also do the opposite and be the best player on the court and sort of take over a match which was always a a daunting thing because he he was such a presence out there. 00:36:13.779 --> 00:36:47.460 Uh Marcelo Arevolo um yeah kind of the same as Vavasori a little bit I thought Arevolo throughout his career did an unbelievable job of like he'll he'll probably be the first to me he's not the most comfortable vollier but he did an unbelievable job of getting comfortable being really close to the net and kind of similar to me except better athletically did you know if the ball came to him he was going to knock it off had a really good serve and one that I felt like when he got hot it was almost unplayable. 00:36:48.019 --> 00:36:52.259 And then also similarly to Granolers he was a good competitor. 00:36:52.820 --> 00:36:59.219 So I felt like the one area where maybe he struggled a little bit is if you just if he felt like it was just coming at him all the time. 00:36:59.300 --> 00:37:00.579 I think he liked a bit of time. 00:37:00.659 --> 00:37:11.139 He liked to feel the game a little bit and so a lot of the challenge with him was to make him to rush him and to feel make him feel like you know he's not he's he's very reactive. 00:37:11.300 --> 00:37:14.259 If he got to set his feet and have time he was really tough. 00:37:16.099 --> 00:37:47.699 Mate Pavich uh results wise probably the best player I played against um just you know won the golden slam doesn't get much better than that um I think great lefty serve uh came in really well was an unbelievable partner when his when his partner was at the baseline I I I thought he was the best at that so like let's say his partner was hitting ground strokes or hit a return he was like he always read that part of the game really well moved at just the right time knocked off the ball something that I felt like I struggled with my whole career. 00:37:49.059 --> 00:37:55.139 I felt like you could get him if you could get him a little down he could kind of keep going that way. 00:37:55.219 --> 00:38:14.980 And I thought that was maybe his weakness was that just mentally sometimes he could be a little on and off but if he

wasn't that was that was a really tough task and it was probably the guy and with him and Nicola together the the one that caused Joe and I the most headache in terms of geez how how do we beat these guys like they're really tough. 00:38:15.699 --> 00:38:34.179 Yeah yeah he's had so much success with different partners as well um seems like he's been top 10 for like a decade now yeah he I mean he started really early too right he started playing doubles very early on yeah uh last one in the top 10 Simon Balelli. 00:38:34.659 --> 00:39:07.940 Um yeah Baleli's also same cut from the same cloth in terms of like I played the guy in the strike open in singles and I played him maybe a couple more times like Sabios and all that um he was just one of the purest ball strikers we had both sides one-handed backhand was just a thing of beauty um I felt like his career really made a step up when him and Vavasori started playing together I think he was really helped by Vavasori's positive energy and sort of enthusiasm and sometimes when he played with Fognini if they were playing well that was great but if they weren't I felt like both neither guy helped each other sort of get you know positive. 00:39:08.019 --> 00:39:09.779 They were both sort of bring each other down. 00:39:09.860 --> 00:39:13.219 So I felt like you know Vavasori was a great partner for him. 00:39:13.460 --> 00:39:25.460 Similarly a Revlo though I felt like with Balleli you could rush him if you rushed him and he kind of didn't feel as pure on the ball he really got flustered because it was such a strength for his for him when he did feel like he was hitting the ball well. 00:39:26.019 --> 00:39:35.940 But if you again similar to that if you let him have time and set his feet and didn't sort of disrupt that you were going to be in a world of hurt just because how well he could hit it. 00:39:36.259 --> 00:40:13.219 Yeah yeah I feel like him him and Revolo probably pay play do they play a bit more two back on return than than other players probably to get time Beleli for sure I think Beleli's probably you know Revlo got to be quite good at the net and you know like I said kind of in picking off balls and stuff like that but Beleli always was more comfortable from the back and could could play like a two up two back game with anybody all right I want to move on to the ATP doubles news um just share your perspective on this and then what do you think is actually going to happen? 00:40:14.099 --> 00:40:15.940 I'll start with the second question first. 00:40:16.099 --> 00:40:17.860 I have no idea what's actually going to happen. 00:40:18.099 --> 00:40:21.940 I mean I think it's it's I I wish I had a better answer. 00:40:22.019 --> 00:40:33.940 I I I I applaud the guys for you know the doubles guys for really trying to fight this you know in all the right possible ways but I I just have no idea I don't even know what the like I don't even know what the procedures are like can they just can they do

this? 00:40:34.019 --> 00:40:35.380 Is this even something that's possible? 00:40:35.460 --> 00:40:42.340 I I don't know you know so it feels like it it's a very possible thing for all of these changes to happen but I don't really know what's going to happen. 00:40:42.420 --> 00:40:44.259 I'm I'm waiting to see just with everybody. 00:40:44.420 --> 00:41:03.139 But um I would say for me the the one main thing that I think is the kicker and I don't even side one way or the other with it that hasn't been addressed is just the the sheer lack of effort in promoting this discipline by the governing body. 00:41:03.460 --> 00:41:26.179 And you can make all the rule changes you want you we started by trying to do like 15 second changeovers and you know all the way back to 2005 we started you know no ad scoring and 10 point breaker like you can make all of the changes you want but I don't think you're ever going to give it a fair shot unless you promote it with some kind of effort, consistency and plan. 00:41:26.659 --> 00:41:28.739 And like it's not like there's a lack of stories. 00:41:28.820 --> 00:41:55.539 I mean I've said this in a hundred different interviews 2024 when Monte won the French open he became the sixth player to win the golden slam in in an era when we're talking about these kinds of things happening on it feels like a regular basis, you know I mean Alcaraz is winning all the slams Novak did did it the same year at the Olympics uh yeah did the same year at the Olympics and obviously Roth all of these guys have had these things and it's like there's a doubles guy that did it and he became one of six players and like you heard boo about it. 00:41:55.619 --> 00:41:57.619 You didn't hear a dang thing from the tour. 00:41:57.699 --> 00:42:03.139 So I'm I understand like yeah tennis channel and ESPN and whatever that they don't want to show it. 00:42:03.219 --> 00:42:04.259 And that's completely fine. 00:42:04.340 --> 00:42:11.380 That's up to them right but why we can't promote that as a tour a bit better put it on an Instagram post and do a story about it. 00:42:11.539 --> 00:42:52.099 Make the guy like I'm just giving him an example there's a hundred more stories we could talk about but like make that story be known a little bit more and then if it like still doesn't work then we can talk about other things but I just don't understand how that's not sort of like one of the very very top ideals in in in how you would go about changing things have you been in some of these meetings that have happened like at Wimbledon and US open no I have not and I'll tell you I'll tell you why I sort of took the stance this year that you know I knew it was going to be my last year and I was just going to do everything I could to focus on playing and being the best type of player I could and I just look at any of this stuff as being like a distractive measure. 00:42:52.259 --> 00:43:23.779 So short answer is no I I haven't been so I don't know I'm sure that

question's been asked but I still like I just don't know what somebody could tell me that would make me feel like oh yeah that makes sense I understand why you didn't market Mate Pavich winning the golden slam like I I don't know what the answer could possibly be you know yeah no I mean that's uh you kind of summarized basically my whole the argument I've been making for five years in probably a better way um and I haven't found a a reasonable answer to that. 00:43:24.259 --> 00:43:35.860 And you've you've been on tour for a while and it sounds like you also haven't seen you know I've I've followed pro doubles only for like the last seven years closely. 00:43:36.019 --> 00:43:44.179 Right and I haven't I've seen the lack of promotion but it sounds like you haven't seen it since you even turned pro in any promotion. 00:43:44.500 --> 00:43:52.980 And and yeah and to be fair like when I turned pro and when I started playing like I wasn't that aware of it either because like I said I was a singles player really predominantly until 2016 15. 00:43:53.059 --> 00:43:54.579 So like I wasn't really looking for it. 00:43:54.659 --> 00:44:04.420 And also I will say at that point like there were fewer doubles specialists and there were fewer guys that just started playing pro tennis for doubles only like that didn't happen. 00:44:04.579 --> 00:44:16.179 Everybody I started playing with I mean all of these guys that you've named Zabios Granolers Ballelli um you know Mahut Herbert all of these guys like I played them in singles as well as playing them in doubles. 00:44:16.340 --> 00:44:38.259 So we all Dodig another one we we kind of took the same path right so it's kind of just been more recent when you've had you know Joe and Neil and Henry and Jamie Murray and you know a few of these guys that really didn't ever play that much singles you know so I think it's a it's a it's a shift in the in the in the deal a little bit and how it works. 00:44:38.980 --> 00:44:51.219 But that to me still all comes second to let's see if we can actually get this product to be a little bit more well known in terms of the audience that might be looking for it. 00:44:51.460 --> 00:45:05.219 And if it fails then then listen you have my entire blessing to do absolutely whatever you want cut it get rid of it say only singles player is allowed all of that but like you know why have we not tried that ever I don't understand. 00:45:05.860 --> 00:45:06.259 Yeah. 00:45:06.980 --> 00:45:10.420 I wonder I forgot kind of two follow up questions. 00:45:10.579 --> 00:45:18.980 So one is like historically double Had more singles players in it, right? 00:45:19.139 --> 00:45:25.619 So like the tour is marketing the singles tournament and the singles players primarily. 00:45:25.779 --> 00:45:32.579 And when they enter the doubles draw, the p fans have heard of them because they also play singles, right? 00:45:32.980 --> 00:45:45.380 Um, and then in the these last like 10 or so years, now all of a

sudden most of the doubles draw people haven't heard of the players because they didn't play singles, right? 00:45:45.619 --> 00:45:47.139 Or don't play singles. 00:45:47.300 --> 00:45:54.900 Um, so that just created basically a problem, not a problem, but like an opportunity, or you could view it as a problem. 00:45:55.059 --> 00:45:57.300 It seems like the ATP is viewing it as a problem. 00:45:57.380 --> 00:46:07.300 Um, I view it as an opportunity for the tour to market a different uh product. 00:46:07.779 --> 00:46:07.940 Yeah. 00:46:08.179 --> 00:46:11.059 And but that is that is more work, right? 00:46:11.219 --> 00:46:19.219 In the past, they didn't have to do that because they were just had to market the singles, and when the singles players play doubles, then the fans are gonna go watch. 00:46:19.380 --> 00:46:36.019 But now that it's like two independent kind of populations almost, um it's put the tour in a situation where like you're gonna have to create marketing for these players too, or else it's not gonna grow. 00:46:36.179 --> 00:46:38.179 Like that part of your business is not gonna grow. 00:46:38.420 --> 00:46:46.980 And it seems like they're taking maybe the lazy way out, I guess, um, or the I don't know, the easy way out. 00:46:47.139 --> 00:46:50.820 I don't even know if it's easier, but is it am I thinking about that the right way? 00:46:50.980 --> 00:46:52.179 Like, does that make sense? 00:46:52.500 --> 00:47:00.179 Yeah, I mean, I I I think problem problems and opportunities are closely related, you know, brothers, if you will. 00:47:00.259 --> 00:47:05.219 I mean, if you you you kind of look at you it depends on what lens you look at it through, it could be viewed as a problem or as an opportunity. 00:47:05.380 --> 00:47:07.380 So I think that's absolutely right. 00:47:07.539 --> 00:47:15.539 I think um it's definitely been a shift in how the tours piece together in terms of who plays doubles, who plays singles. 00:47:15.779 --> 00:47:30.820 Um, I I do get it for a certain extent, to a certain extent, that you know, maybe out of all of the rules, that one rule where they said, you know, you have to reach, I think it was it, I think it was that in challengers you can only use your singles ranking to play doubles tournaments. 00:47:30.900 --> 00:47:32.659 And so you have to sort of change the pathway. 00:47:32.820 --> 00:47:44.739 Like I quite honestly don't maybe I don't mind that one as much because I do feel like it's good to start, you know, playing singles and that may be a good you know beginning portion of it at least. 00:47:44.900 --> 00:47:51.219 But even if you did all of those things and you still don't market the product that you have on hand, it's it's not gonna matter. 00:47:51.300 --> 00:47:53.219 You're gonna run into these same issues, you know. 00:47:53.300 --> 00:48:03.779 Like you can think certain things work and 90%, 90-10 and smaller draws, and you can make arguments for a whole host of things, but like the why to me is the biggest problem. 00:48:03.940 --> 00:48:05.860 And I just don't know the answer as to why. 00:48:05.940 --> 00:48:07.300 Is it is it lazy? 00:48:07.460 --> 00:48:08.579 Is it not wanting it? 00:48:08.739 --> 00:48:11.460 Is it you know a problem with the money that people are making? 00:48:11.539 --> 00:48:14.340 I I really don't know what it is. 00:48:14.739 --> 00:48:34.739 But what is gonna happen, I think, is that if the doubles goes away, especially with the way the tour is nowadays, with you know these long masters events and and so many people coming to these majors looking for content, if you don't have some doubles to fill some space at the very least, I think there's gonna be some real trouble around the corner. 00:48:37.940 --> 00:48:44.739 How much of this do you think is I mentioned laziness, but how much of it do you think is a respect issue? 00:48:45.059 --> 00:48:47.779 Like a lack of respect for the doubles players? 00:48:51.300 --> 00:49:09.860 I think like I think it's I think it's potentially there, but I think that narrative could also be shifted with sort of like you know, some better promote better sort of um a narrative from the tour itself. 00:49:10.099 --> 00:49:20.179 You know, I think that like you see two singles guys team up and play doubles, and it's like the coolest thing in the world because these four guys are playing doubles against each other or whatever else. 00:49:20.420 --> 00:49:26.340 So, like, if there was a little bit more respect, uh sorry, a little bit of a better narrative for some of the things that we're talking about, right? 00:49:26.420 --> 00:49:38.179 This is the team portion of this sport, and the the the team portion involves being good teammates and having like you hear the stuff in all of these other sports about how certain players were great teammates and they were, you know, like these kinds of things. 00:49:38.259 --> 00:49:40.980 You hear the perspective, and I think people could really relate to that. 00:49:41.139 --> 00:49:45.539 And if people can really relate to it and appreciate it, then the respect sort of happens for itself. 00:49:45.619 --> 00:50:05.139 But right now it's like the narrative is well, these are people that just can't make it in singles, so they're just giving it a go in doubles, or maybe they've made it in singles five, 10 years ago, and now they're too old and they're giving it a go, you know, in which I think it's just a lot of it, a lot of it is about how you spin it, because it doesn't mean that everybody who didn't make it in singles or even that has made it in singles would become a good doubles player. 00:50:05.219 --> 00:50:06.420 I don't buy that for a second. 00:50:06.500 --> 00:50:10.900 I think there's a certain skill involved and a very difficult one at that. 00:50:11.619 --> 00:50:12.019 Right. 00:50:12.259 --> 00:50:19.940 Yeah, I mean it's a sport, so you would think you know, the the term a lot of people have used is a

meritocracy, right? 00:50:20.099 --> 00:50:27.619 Like the if you weren't good at singles, but you're the best doubles player in the world, you're the best doubles player in the world. 00:50:27.779 --> 00:50:33.380 Like it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter if you were good at singles or not, it's a different version of the same sport. 00:50:33.619 --> 00:50:33.779 Right. 00:50:33.940 --> 00:50:37.059 Um, or you could call it even call it a different sport if you want to. 00:50:37.460 --> 00:50:48.980 But at the end of the day, it's like the tour should want the best doubles players playing doubles because that's what a sport is, and that's how you keep the integrity of a sport. 00:50:49.219 --> 00:50:51.779 So um we could talk about that for hours. 00:50:51.940 --> 00:50:56.340 I want to move on and let you go um because I know it's getting late there in Paris. 00:50:57.300 --> 00:51:02.980 So now that you're retired, you um you're working with Tennis Channel. 00:51:03.059 --> 00:51:04.420 What else do you have planned? 00:51:04.500 --> 00:51:05.779 What's next for you? 00:51:06.179 --> 00:51:13.619 Yeah, so I was very fortunate to be linked up with this nonprofit organization from Indianapolis called Crystal House. 00:51:13.779 --> 00:51:15.460 And it's a really cool group. 00:51:15.619 --> 00:51:22.019 They build schools all over the world in very um, you know, impoverished areas. 00:51:22.099 --> 00:51:28.900 Um, so we have schools in Mexico, Jamaica, um, India, uh, among other countries. 00:51:28.980 --> 00:51:41.380 And so I actually did just my first trip with them visiting one of their schools to celebrating the 25th anniversary in a city called Bangalore in India, and then um just understanding their, you know, opening new schools in other cities in India. 00:51:41.460 --> 00:51:46.900 So understanding what that process looks like, speaking to some government officials, just being part of that whole process was really cool. 00:51:47.059 --> 00:51:49.380 So my exact role isn't quite sure. 00:51:49.460 --> 00:51:56.900 I think it's a bit of all-encompassing, a little helping with fundraising and you know, some maybe some different things, but being a part of that organization is really, really pretty neat. 00:51:57.059 --> 00:51:58.179 I'm enjoying that a lot. 00:51:58.259 --> 00:52:11.779 Um, I have my own foundation that I work work with, and then also um uh there's a tennis club being built in in Indianapolis, my hometown, and I've been doing some stuff to try and help that get off the get off the ground, uh, which hopefully should be happening. 00:52:11.940 --> 00:52:13.699 Construction should start later in November. 00:52:13.779 --> 00:52:17.539 So I do have a few things going on, which is nice for sure. 00:52:17.619 --> 00:52:25.779 I think um, you know, I'm very fortunate to be in a position where I have something to look forward to after tennis, uh, since tennis is over now. 00:52:26.099 --> 00:52:29.539 And yeah, I I think it's it's it's exciting. 00:52:29.860 --> 00:52:30.179 Cool. 00:52:30.259 --> 00:52:32.900 Yeah, I want to get links to all that and included in the show notes. 00:52:32.980 --> 00:52:38.259 So if people want to donate or get involved or something, um they can do that. 00:52:38.659 --> 00:52:54.579 I feel like you know, it's it's I I've never been a professional tennis player, but it's it seems like the idea of retirement sounds especially at at such a young age when you're a professional athlete. 00:52:54.659 --> 00:52:58.019 Um those people retire at 60, 65, 70. 00:52:58.739 --> 00:53:01.059 It seems a little bit scary. 00:53:01.300 --> 00:53:03.940 Um, have you dealt with that a little bit at all? 00:53:04.019 --> 00:53:10.179 Or how do you kind of deal with the transition, I guess, um emotionally, mentally? 00:53:11.219 --> 00:53:14.900 Yeah, there were days for sure when I'm like, oh my gosh, this is all I've ever done. 00:53:14.980 --> 00:53:16.579 And like, what am I gonna do? 00:53:16.900 --> 00:53:18.579 But I I will say a couple things. 00:53:18.739 --> 00:53:27.779 Number one, I was very sure for a really long time that I didn't want to play if I didn't feel like I was one of the best and I was competing week in and week out for the biggest titles. 00:53:27.860 --> 00:53:36.179 And while we had a great run at the US Open, I feel like, you know, my level wasn't to the point, both physically and emotionally, where that was gonna be a week to week thing. 00:53:36.259 --> 00:53:37.619 You know, I didn't think that was the case. 00:53:37.779 --> 00:53:50.099 And so, you know, I did I didn't want to be, you know, yeah, I didn't want to be in that situation where I was just sort of like making up the numbers on the tour because, you know, I could still do it, I could still get into these tournaments, but I wasn't really in the mix for winning them. 00:53:50.259 --> 00:53:51.699 So that's one thing. 00:53:51.940 --> 00:54:00.019 Um, the second thing is is that I felt so fortunate to have the last my last event go the way that it did. 00:54:00.179 --> 00:54:05.059 Like I could retire a hundred more times, and I don't think it would be as perfect as it was, right? 00:54:05.139 --> 00:54:09.940 I was at the tournament where I had the most success with Joe, who was my most successful partner. 00:54:10.099 --> 00:54:11.219 My family was around. 00:54:11.300 --> 00:54:12.579 We had a great tournament. 00:54:12.739 --> 00:54:17.779 You know, Craig Tiley was my college coach giving me the you know the award, like you said. 00:54:17.940 --> 00:54:21.539 Eric was a long time, he's been a longtime friend, a partner once. 00:54:21.619 --> 00:54:23.460 I actually retired him at the US Open. 00:54:23.619 --> 00:54:27.300 Like he, my match or his last match at the US Open was against me. 00:54:27.619 --> 00:54:29.300 Like all of these parallels. 00:54:29.699 --> 00:54:36.980 Like, even if I played the US Open again another time or another tournament, it was never

gonna go that well. 00:54:37.139 --> 00:54:43.539 So I there was so much closure that I got out of that whole situation that, you know, I gave it absolutely everything I had. 00:54:43.619 --> 00:54:45.139 We worked as hard as we could all summer. 00:54:45.300 --> 00:54:47.940 I just felt like I I squeezed out every last drop. 00:54:48.179 --> 00:54:57.139 And kind of going back to like what my dad instilled in me from a long time ago, like if I didn't truly feel like I could get any better or I could push this thing further, I didn't I didn't want to play. 00:54:57.300 --> 00:55:01.779 And that's sort of what it felt like at the end of that tournament was that was literally everything I had to give. 00:55:01.860 --> 00:55:03.539 Do I still play for fun and all that? 00:55:03.699 --> 00:55:04.099 Absolutely. 00:55:04.179 --> 00:55:11.619 Like I still I still love to play, but it doesn't have to be in that sort of crazy competitive environment, which it would what it truly was for me. 00:55:11.699 --> 00:55:12.659 I mean, that was what it was. 00:55:12.739 --> 00:55:14.820 It was all-encompassing. 00:55:15.779 --> 00:55:16.659 That's really cool. 00:55:16.739 --> 00:55:20.099 Um, last question Do you have any interest in coaching at some point? 00:55:20.980 --> 00:55:25.460 Um, you know what I had a really tough time with on the tour the last little bit was just the uncertainty. 00:55:25.619 --> 00:55:29.940 The travel was one thing, but the uncertainty of the travel was another thing that really bothered me. 00:55:30.019 --> 00:55:31.460 Like, you know, you go to Indian Wells. 00:55:31.539 --> 00:55:33.059 I see this background that you've got here, and I just thought of it. 00:55:33.139 --> 00:55:37.539 So you go to Indian Wells and you you know you play on a Monday, and if you win, then you're staying, then you play on a Wednesday. 00:55:37.619 --> 00:55:39.619 But if you lose on the Monday, you're traveling that Tuesday. 00:55:39.699 --> 00:55:44.500 You know, like there was just no routine you could really get into because it was obviously so result-dependent. 00:55:44.579 --> 00:55:49.139 And it was only in the last like year where I started to really feel that that weighed on me. 00:55:49.300 --> 00:55:52.659 So whether it's playing or coaching, you're living that same rat race still, right? 00:55:52.739 --> 00:55:59.300 And so uh at the moment, I would say coaching on tour is not something I'm interested in, and purely for that reason. 00:55:59.460 --> 00:56:06.420 And also like the competitive environment, while I think I got really good, I got to become a really good competitor. 00:56:06.500 --> 00:56:11.059 It's not innate in me to like have to go out and win it the you know, everything I do. 00:56:11.219 --> 00:56:17.940 So I think you know, that you know, if you're coaching someone to be a professional tennis player, it is a crazy competitive environment. 00:56:18.019 --> 00:56:21.539 And if you don't have that in you, I think you're doing the player a bit of a disservice. 00:56:21.699 --> 00:56:43.380 So at the moment, for those two reasons, I don't think it's it's with me, but I do think if there's a player that I can offer some help to just through my experiences, almost sort of like as a mentoring role, and I've done it with Nishesh for years and years in a certain way, like that I do enjoy because I feel like if I can help from you know sort of 30,000 feet and it it causes a positive impact, I'm more than happy to do that. 00:56:43.619 --> 00:56:48.500 But to be in it day to day is a whole different mindset that I just am not ready for at the moment. 00:56:48.739 --> 00:56:50.340 Yeah, makes a lot of sense. 00:56:50.579 --> 00:56:51.539 Roger, awesome. 00:56:51.619 --> 00:56:52.659 This was a ton of fun. 00:56:52.739 --> 00:56:53.699 I really appreciate the time. 00:56:53.940 --> 00:56:55.460 Yeah, no, thanks for having me. 00:56:55.699 --> 00:56:58.820 Thanks for coming back on, and we will uh talk again soon. 00:56:59.059 --> 00:56:59.940 You got it.