התמלול המלא של Avoiding the School Initiative Graveyard with Dr. Kristilynn Turney

along and I'm like, Ooh, that sounds like it would be fun. 00:05:24.137 --> 00:05:24.228 Yes. 00:05:24.348 --> 00:05:29.838 Um, okay, so you said that you, uh, you had a strong passion for literacy to begin with. 00:05:29.838 --> 00:05:34.637 So tell me a little bit about how you use data in, um, in that aspect. 00:05:35.572 --> 00:05:44.963 Well, it's interesting because when I first started out, uh, in the late nineties, data did not look anything like it looks, uh, right now. 00:05:44.963 --> 00:05:50.452 And so I knew though that I had to track student learning, right? 00:05:50.452 --> 00:05:53.273 And so something beyond the grade. 00:05:53.273 --> 00:05:55.312 So let me tell you a quick funny story. 00:05:55.312 --> 00:06:07.372 So one of my first, um, tests that I gave, I, uh, went through my student groups and I counted how many students got a's how many got B, C's, D's, and F's. 00:06:07.432 --> 00:06:20.512 And then I made a bell curve and I said, okay, well it looks like how it's supposed to look because I got a couple a's here, I got a couple F's, and then everybody kind of falls in the middle. 00:06:20.723 --> 00:06:24.112 Now, fast forward, I've learned that obviously. 00:06:24.653 --> 00:06:36.923 That, uh, was only a, a very small measure of, you know, student, uh, data as well as, you know, not tracking any type of growth, uh, in that processes as well. 00:06:36.923 --> 00:06:53.213 But just starting off as an English teacher in tracking, uh, student comprehension, we did obviously a lot of grammar and literature and separating those into those individual buckets to identify student strengths as well as areas for growth. 00:06:53.452 --> 00:06:56.932 And I look back on that and I'm like, wow. 00:06:56.932 --> 00:07:07.822 I, I think I was ahead of my time in that regard because I was already looking at it almost like a standards based, um, data point. 00:07:08.093 --> 00:07:09.473 Um, even then. 00:07:09.473 --> 00:07:20.093 And then now fast forward, we do a lot of that and there are so many wonderful programs that do it for us, uh, that help guide instruction based off of that. 00:07:21.038 --> 00:07:22.298 Yeah, absolutely. 00:07:22.298 --> 00:07:28.237 And, um, we'll be hearing about a, a new program, um, that does stuff like that pretty soon. 00:07:30.187 --> 00:07:30.783 Yes, yes, yes. 00:07:30.817 --> 00:07:32.257 Dropping those Easter eggs. 00:07:32.317 --> 00:07:32.497 Okay. 00:07:33.038 --> 00:07:46.418 Um, so, so, so that was back when you were a teacher and I wanna kind of, um, talk a little bit about your experience with data culture as a leader as well. 00:07:46.807 --> 00:07:59.468 Um, specifically how, what kind of resistance you've been met with and how you think, um, we might be able to overcome that resistance for those of us that have been in similar situations. 00:08:00.247 --> 00:08:01.117 Absolutely. 00:08:01.117 --> 00:08:10.088 So, um, as an an administrator, oftentimes teachers especially view data as a

hammer, right? 00:08:10.088 --> 00:08:12.608 And we wanna make sure that we're looking at it as a mirror. 00:08:12.877 --> 00:08:14.168 It is the reality. 00:08:14.348 --> 00:08:23.887 It is reflecting, um, the things that we identified for growth targets our goals, and the areas that we want to improve upon. 00:08:24.247 --> 00:08:40.363 So even when I started off doing school improvement, again, data did not look anything like it looks now, but I did see that a lot of teachers were resistant, uh, to hearing about it, to learning about it, and to. 00:08:41.437 --> 00:08:43.327 Taking it to help improve. 00:08:43.597 --> 00:08:50.288 And so with that resistance came that shift of, no, we want to use it to help and not hurt. 00:08:50.317 --> 00:09:01.807 And yes, you are going to hear and see things that make you feel uncomfortable, but feeling uncomfortable about, uh, low performing data is, is a part of how we grow, right? 00:09:01.807 --> 00:09:06.638 And we take that experience and say, we want to make things better. 00:09:06.638 --> 00:09:07.868 We want to shift. 00:09:08.138 --> 00:09:25.898 So making sure that there is this healthy culture around data, that it is truly reflecting, um, the reality and that we are looking a, at celebrating progress and wins first, as opposed to making it all punitive. 00:09:25.898 --> 00:09:35.197 And so those were some of the ways that I worked to overcome that initial level of resistance, not only through student data, though. 00:09:35.842 --> 00:09:52.702 Through teacher performance data, uh, school-wide data, and even me as a leader conducting, um, some qualitative surveys about performance and, and things that we can shift, especially around making some big decisions in, uh, the school. 00:09:52.702 --> 00:09:57.682 And so again, taking all of those pieces and saying, look, this is a mirror. 00:09:57.682 --> 00:09:59.273 This is our reality. 00:09:59.572 --> 00:10:01.403 This is what we want it to reflect. 00:10:01.403 --> 00:10:05.243 And this is not the hammer, this is not to be punitive, but to help. 00:10:06.202 --> 00:10:06.773 Yeah. 00:10:06.832 --> 00:10:16.913 And I think you really touched on one of the big reasons that, um, that teachers are so hesitant when it comes to data is because it's being used against them. 00:10:16.913 --> 00:10:27.173 And, um, so often, like, uh, you know, we have some states who are, most of their evaluation is based on their state assessment data. 00:10:27.592 --> 00:10:32.393 Um, so it makes sense, um, that they would. 00:10:33.263 --> 00:10:37.883 Be nervous about it, but then we also think about why we all went into teaching. 00:10:38.663 --> 00:10:38.753 Mm-hmm. 00:10:38.993 --> 00:10:40.163 And it was for those students. 00:10:40.163 --> 00:10:40.342 Right. 00:10:40.342 --> 00:10:50.783 So it's really challenging to be able to look at a set of data and comprehend that it represents all of those, those little babies that are in your classroom. 00:10:50.932 --> 00:10:51.413 That's right. 00:10:51.413 --> 00:10:55.643 And so it's like, it's, there's, there's a disconnect there. 00:10:55.732 --> 00:10:55.822 Mm-hmm. 00:10:56.062 --> 00:11:09.202 So how do we patch up that disconnect and make it so that it feels a bit more genuine and, um, a bit less, like we're just like calling each student a number. 00:11:10.087 --> 00:11:11.107 Absolutely. 00:11:11.138 --> 00:11:22.927 And I think with that goes to the stories, um, of those students and asking questions about those data points that we're looking at to improve. 00:11:22.927 --> 00:11:30.307 And I think even when I think back to being the teacher and doing that bell curve initially mm-hmm. 00:11:30.548 --> 00:11:35.378 As I started to reflect more, I'm like, but each of these hold stories. 00:11:35.528 --> 00:11:39.008 Why did these students get A's and these get F's? 00:11:39.008 --> 00:11:46.687 And why is this student performing well on this particular standard or unit and poorly on this one? 00:11:46.687 --> 00:11:50.677 And so thinking about it, yes it is telling a story. 00:11:50.677 --> 00:11:59.168 It is painting the picture of, uh, our work as educators, as well as leaders, and not again. 00:11:59.692 --> 00:12:04.763 Where we're just so focused on it being negative, uh, and punitive. 00:12:05.033 --> 00:12:12.413 But to that point, it's important for leaders to make sure that they are rolling it out and sharing it in that regard. 00:12:12.653 --> 00:12:14.842 Making sure you are celebrating the wins. 00:12:14.842 --> 00:12:18.682 There is always something positive that can be seen. 00:12:18.743 --> 00:12:23.932 And in our data sources, no matter how small it might be, Hey, we see growth here. 00:12:24.082 --> 00:12:25.822 Hey, we see a shift here. 00:12:25.942 --> 00:12:27.923 Hey, we see opportunities here. 00:12:28.253 --> 00:12:36.293 And starting with those wins first so that it isn't so quick to be, oh my gosh, here we go again. 00:12:36.442 --> 00:12:39.952 They're going to to nail me and, and make it more punitive. 00:12:40.192 --> 00:12:56.033 And now add on some other measure of evaluation that's going to challenge all educators, the ones who are implementing it, as well as the ones who, uh, are overseeing and, and, um, having to cater to those initiatives too. 00:12:56.903 --> 00:12:57.293 Yeah. 00:12:58.207 --> 00:12:59.197 Yeah, so true. 00:12:59.197 --> 00:13:13.927 And you've mentioned a couple of times bringing it back to those winds and, um, something that I've been preaching a ton lately is the fact that, you know, like those wind, that that shot of dopamine that we get from the winds mm-hmm. 00:13:14.202 --> 00:13:19.687 It's, it's not just the good feelings, it's also your brain connecting the fact that you did something. 00:13:19.687 --> 00:13:23.677 And it led to growth, it led to the impact. 00:13:24.067 --> 00:13:28.388 And making those connections is, is gold, right? 00:13:28.388 --> 00:13:32.557 Because then you, you

know, you have control over some things. 00:13:32.798 --> 00:13:35.618 You feel that control, you feel that efficacy. 00:13:35.857 --> 00:13:44.648 And if you're building that together, you get the, the collective teacher efficacy, which as we all know is a huge determining factor in how well students do in your school. 00:13:44.648 --> 00:13:51.307 So, um, getting to those wins, it's just, I can't, I can't stop talking about that point. 00:13:51.307 --> 00:13:53.557 'cause I think we overlook it so often. 00:13:53.557 --> 00:13:57.337 We, we think, okay, we're, we're looking at data, um. 00:13:57.878 --> 00:14:13.597 And the reason is to grow the students, but we forget that we will not keep using data to grow the students unless we know for sure that there's a connection between the actions that we're taking and the impact that it has. 00:14:13.807 --> 00:14:13.988 Yeah. 00:14:13.988 --> 00:14:19.957 We had to be able to make that connection because if we're just growing on some kind of state assessment and we don't know what led to it. 00:14:20.498 --> 00:14:21.008 That's right. 00:14:21.008 --> 00:14:21.097 Yes. 00:14:21.518 --> 00:14:22.927 No point in even looking at the data. 00:14:23.347 --> 00:14:24.128 Absolutely. 00:14:24.128 --> 00:14:37.753 And then to me, you become, uh, a loser in the sense that you made these gains, you have no connection how you got there, and then probably you're gonna lose out the next year because you will not be able to Yeah. 00:14:37.988 --> 00:14:41.738 Replicate it because you didn't really pay attention to what you did. 00:14:41.738 --> 00:14:45.128 And so that's the important piece with, with data as well. 00:14:45.128 --> 00:15:03.998 Paying close attention to what you are tracking, what you are monitoring, and the impact that that is having on those outcomes so that you are able to either replicate it or say, oh my goodness, we will never do that again, because when we did it, this is what we got, right? 00:15:03.998 --> 00:15:08.768 And, and that wasn't a positive feeling or when we did it, this is what we got. 00:15:08.798 --> 00:15:16.837 We know exactly what we did, we know exactly how we got here, and this piece is what we are going to continue to replicate. 00:15:16.837 --> 00:15:20.513 And then we'll feed in something additional to help push that growth. 00:15:21.457 --> 00:15:21.937 Yeah. 00:15:21.937 --> 00:15:22.357 Right. 00:15:22.357 --> 00:15:23.077 Exactly. 00:15:23.077 --> 00:15:26.347 And we'll continue to monitor that, that first piece too, because you never know. 00:15:26.587 --> 00:15:26.947 Absolutely. 00:15:27.307 --> 00:15:45.847 You never know when AI comes along or, I mean, going back to like calculators, the internet, like of course my mind goes to all the things that affect math class the most, but, um, we, there shifts constantly and we have to be able to keep up with those shifts and keep the students, um, engaged and growing. 00:15:45.847 --> 00:15:48.097 So, yes, definitely. 00:15:48.577 --> 00:15:54.763 Um, so let's talk about rolling out new data initiatives, because I know you've had experience with that before and you've seen mm-hmm. 00:15:54.847 --> 00:15:58.268 Kind of how, how, how it can be a bit of a minefield. 00:15:58.268 --> 00:16:00.607 And we've talked a little bit about teacher hesitancy. 00:16:01.087 --> 00:16:08.798 What are the most common pitfalls that you've seen schools kind of fall into when rolling out some kind of new data initiative? 00:16:09.548 --> 00:16:13.508 Well, I, I think it's even any new initiative, right? 00:16:13.508 --> 00:16:13.597 Yeah. 00:16:13.628 --> 00:16:26.677 Because if you've been in education long enough, you've seen every flavor of the month, new idea, new trend, and sometimes it is too much, too fast. 00:16:26.738 --> 00:16:46.658 And so I, I see those pitfalls again, across multiple areas, whether it's like, Hey, we got this new curriculum, we got this new, uh, data platform that we are going to use, and I can see where staff sometimes are drowning in resources, right? 00:16:47.827 --> 00:16:50.102 We want this resource rich environment. 00:16:50.557 --> 00:16:51.368 I get it. 00:16:51.368 --> 00:17:09.698 But then when we have too much too fast with little training and support and, and very little feed into build up to utilizing whatever that data, uh, platform or initiative is to its maximum potential, then that's when we shut down. 00:17:09.758 --> 00:17:10.178 Right? 00:17:10.357 --> 00:17:10.417 Yeah. 00:17:10.417 --> 00:17:12.637 And that's anybody, right? 00:17:12.847 --> 00:17:14.603 So I think it's important. 00:17:15.653 --> 00:17:22.883 To make sure that we have a strategic way to roll out this information as well as the why. 00:17:23.153 --> 00:17:28.732 Why all of a sudden are we using this platform instead of that one? 00:17:28.972 --> 00:17:29.452 Right? 00:17:29.663 --> 00:17:33.742 And oftentimes the answer is very simple, right? 00:17:33.952 --> 00:17:38.153 Hey, what we were using before wasn't working, wasn't effective. 00:17:38.153 --> 00:17:44.423 We need something new and more robust that's going to help us shift. 00:17:44.452 --> 00:17:44.843 Right? 00:17:45.053 --> 00:17:53.123 So making sure we are, uh, being very explicit with the why, because we also know that data without context doesn't go anywhere, right? 00:17:53.123 --> 00:17:53.212 Yep. 00:17:53.212 --> 00:17:56.752 Like we have to have that connection. 00:17:57.083 --> 00:18:00.712 And then also making sure that it is not a punitive rollout. 00:18:01.073 --> 00:18:03.472 I've heard leaders, my fellow leaders. 00:18:03.613 --> 00:18:09.073 Say, well, because we didn't hit this measure last year, then now you gotta do this. 00:18:09.073 --> 00:18:15.103 Or now I gotta do, and it sounds very punitive and we don't want that either. 00:18:15.343 --> 00:18:17.893 Again, we still want to celebrate. 00:18:17.893 --> 00:18:22.303 So let's say the scores don't look so hot from

the previous year. 00:18:22.482 --> 00:18:24.073 We find that little growth. 00:18:24.073 --> 00:18:32.442 We find that win, we celebrate that and say, now we want to take that to the next level and here's how we're going to do that. 00:18:32.442 --> 00:18:32.863 Right? 00:18:33.103 --> 00:18:39.942 So preventing, um, that punitive approach that is unfair for really everybody involved, right? 00:18:40.633 --> 00:18:44.022 And to make sure that, uh, we. 00:18:44.407 --> 00:18:53.407 Start small, whatever it is, and to focus on those priority metrics and we can identify very specific targets. 00:18:53.617 --> 00:19:02.942 We know, and I've been in schools where from one to 20, every single area was a low performing area. 00:19:03.468 --> 00:19:06.768 Right, but we're not gonna go in and focus on all 20. 00:19:06.948 --> 00:19:08.327 You can't, right? 00:19:08.508 --> 00:19:16.307 So let's find these ones that we often call our lowest hanging fruit and say, okay, let's start with these three, right? 00:19:16.458 --> 00:19:27.258 So making some priority metrics, um, and then providing that supported training and making it all ongoing, not Here's the platform, here's how you use it, okay? 00:19:27.258 --> 00:19:29.387 And then in May, well, what happened? 00:19:29.387 --> 00:19:36.077 Well, what, well, because your September rollout was extremely poor and you threw it in, in, in everybody's face. 00:19:36.077 --> 00:19:37.157 You didn't revisit it. 00:19:37.157 --> 00:19:40.998 You didn't, um, you did everything. 00:19:41.367 --> 00:19:45.208 Um, that you tell teachers not to do when they're teaching students, right? 00:19:45.387 --> 00:19:45.807 Exactly. 00:19:45.807 --> 00:19:45.897 Yep. 00:19:45.897 --> 00:19:48.327 Like, we expect you to roll out. 00:19:48.357 --> 00:19:50.458 We reteach scaffold. 00:19:50.548 --> 00:19:50.938 You do. 00:19:50.938 --> 00:19:51.298 We do. 00:19:51.393 --> 00:19:51.673 I do. 00:19:51.678 --> 00:19:52.887 We expect all of that. 00:19:52.887 --> 00:19:56.067 But then when we hit you with some of these new platforms, we don't have that. 00:19:56.367 --> 00:20:00.928 So I just hit on a couple of, uh, ideas to avoid those pitfalls. 00:20:00.928 --> 00:20:12.153 Making sure that there's the why, the context around it, making sure that we're starting off small, um, that we have those priority metrics, that it's not punitive and that we're providing ongoing training and support. 00:20:13.133 --> 00:20:13.643 Yeah. 00:20:13.643 --> 00:20:14.182 Oh my goodness. 00:20:14.182 --> 00:20:14.722 I love that. 00:20:14.722 --> 00:20:20.008 And, and I was taking notes as you were speaking as well, so, uh, but perfect summary like it is. 00:20:20.018 --> 00:20:20.528 Thank you. 00:20:21.107 --> 00:20:29.573 It is, um, you're dropping some gold, so I want to touch on a couple, actually, all of them. 00:20:30.022 --> 00:20:30.262 Okay. 00:20:30.262 --> 00:20:31.913 The going slow to go fast. 00:20:31.913 --> 00:20:32.873 So important. 00:20:32.873 --> 00:20:39.772 And I wanna talk a little bit, uh, how this connect about how this connects to, um, data specific rollouts. 00:20:39.772 --> 00:20:44.212 Like all of these are, you're right, they're so, they're generic to all rollouts, like, come on. 00:20:44.218 --> 00:20:44.488 Mm-hmm. 00:20:44.752 --> 00:20:46.042 It, it makes sense, right? 00:20:46.042 --> 00:20:46.553 For everything. 00:20:46.557 --> 00:20:46.567 Mm-hmm. 00:20:47.992 --> 00:21:07.192 Um, when we're dealing with, with using some kind of, um, new data platform or new procedure set of meetings, whatever it may be that you're kind of rolling out within your building, what does it look like to go slow and start small? 00:21:07.282 --> 00:21:15.952 Let's, let's look, let's think about, um, rolling out a new, uh, like a new structure for, um, interventions. 00:21:16.853 --> 00:21:17.722 Absolutely. 00:21:17.722 --> 00:21:17.992 So. 00:21:19.042 --> 00:21:23.603 There are plenty of opportunities to start slow, right? 00:21:23.843 --> 00:21:36.413 And if we're rolling out a new structure for interventions and we're measuring impact in that moment, taking a, a small snapshot of that, that can be five minute walkthrough. 00:21:36.442 --> 00:21:50.123 From a leadership standpoint, I'm going in and I'm specifically looking for, um, the, uh, I, implementation of this intervention strategy and, um, how students are engaged with it or responding. 00:21:50.303 --> 00:21:51.113 That's it. 00:21:51.353 --> 00:21:52.792 Five minutes, right? 00:21:52.972 --> 00:22:06.807 For teachers, this could look like exit tickets, quick checks or quizzes, reading logs, things that many teachers already do, they just don't connect to that next level, right? 00:22:06.813 --> 00:22:07.012 Right. 00:22:07.012 --> 00:22:08.482 Or that next piece. 00:22:08.813 --> 00:22:09.353 So. 00:22:10.057 --> 00:22:16.028 When, uh, people in general here, a new anything, right? 00:22:16.238 --> 00:22:19.357 They're, again, it's like, how is this going to impact my life? 00:22:19.357 --> 00:22:20.258 How is this going to shift? 00:22:20.258 --> 00:22:21.038 What do you have to do? 00:22:21.458 --> 00:22:27.188 And as leaders, if we can just say, yes, it is new, but we're gonna start off very small. 00:22:27.278 --> 00:22:29.617 We're gonna do five minute walkthroughs, and we're looking for this. 00:22:29.798 --> 00:22:39.248 We're gonna only look at exit tickets and we're looking for this so that slow to go fast so that we start small and then build up to where we need to be. 00:22:40.448 --> 00:22:40.897 Yeah. 00:22:40.897 --> 00:22:41.557 Perfect. 00:22:41.557 --> 00:22:47.647 So then, uh, going slow to go fast, we're, we're talking about the why and not making it punitive. 00:22:47.647 --> 00:22:55.897 So I really like how you say, um, you know, we're instead of messaging it as we have to do this because, uh, we suck at teaching reading. 00:22:56.288 --> 00:23:10.117 Um, and so we're saying, um, but we've

experienced a little bit of success in, um, in a couple of our classrooms who are implementing these, these short formative assessments or this intervention, right? 00:23:10.117 --> 00:23:10.178 Yeah. 00:23:10.208 --> 00:23:14.107 So now, now how can we take that and grow upon it? 00:23:14.557 --> 00:23:19.748 Um, so I love that idea of bringing in the context and really getting down to the why. 00:23:20.198 --> 00:23:22.778 Um, looking at specific targets you mentioned. 00:23:23.347 --> 00:23:23.438 Mm-hmm. 00:23:23.678 --> 00:23:35.492 And, and you kind of talked about this in, um, from a leader standpoint, having those walkthroughs, um, that is also a very specific small data set. 00:23:36.188 --> 00:23:46.597 That they are collecting, that they can use for progress monitoring that may be, uh, useful when it comes to checking on like the fidelity of the action steps that they are creating. 00:23:47.048 --> 00:23:47.137 Mm-hmm. 00:23:47.288 --> 00:23:51.548 And I think all of it really goes back to having a plan. 00:23:51.998 --> 00:23:52.117 Mm-hmm. 00:23:52.117 --> 00:23:52.448 Right? 00:23:52.448 --> 00:24:00.367 Like having some kind of action plan as opposed to just selecting the next big thing and saying, okay, we're gonna try this. 00:24:00.877 --> 00:24:01.178 Right. 00:24:02.137 --> 00:24:02.528 Yeah. 00:24:02.827 --> 00:24:19.087 And I think there's a, there's, uh, you know, we have these, these larger platforms now that help us, um, with what used to be our biggest pain point, which was the fact that we have, well it still is the biggest pain point for a lot of schools. 00:24:19.208 --> 00:24:19.508 Yes. 00:24:19.538 --> 00:24:21.998 We have so much data. 00:24:22.403 --> 00:24:26.333 We are collecting a ton of data, but we don't know what we are looking at. 00:24:26.333 --> 00:24:28.012 We don't know where it is, right? 00:24:28.042 --> 00:24:29.542 It's all chaos. 00:24:29.992 --> 00:24:38.212 So we're starting to get these, these tech platforms that are bringing it all back together, aggregating the data so that we can look at it in meaningful ways. 00:24:38.692 --> 00:24:56.333 And, uh, to me, the step that comes after that, the step that comes beyond that is then being able to take that data and come up with some kind of very specific plan and monitor that plan and, and make sure again, that we're getting back to connecting our actions to the impact that we're having. 00:24:57.202 --> 00:24:58.073 Absolutely. 00:24:58.103 --> 00:25:06.833 That connection, that fuels collaboration, it also builds to strengthen beliefs in the system, right? 00:25:06.863 --> 00:25:06.923 Yeah. 00:25:06.923 --> 00:25:21.923 So again, you, you, you hit on a very important point by saying, instead of just grabbing something and saying, here it is, and there's no plan to follow through, then we know that oftentimes those fail. 00:25:22.192 --> 00:25:32.363 But how and why they fail oftentimes are just because of that failure to implement and structure

it out accordingly. 00:25:32.722 --> 00:25:46.103 Um, again, though, we wanna make sure that as we're doing this, it's going to build in belief and connection and collaboration, so we get it when something new rolls out. 00:25:46.103 --> 00:25:48.143 Oftentimes people are hesitant. 00:25:48.833 --> 00:25:59.932 But with the right plan and the right backing, then within a short period of time, they're going to see that value for themselves to say, we have to keep going. 00:26:00.143 --> 00:26:00.532 Right? 00:26:00.532 --> 00:26:25.492 And this is when we're coming into some of our quick cycles, our short assessments, and making sure that we are continuing to support that rollout with the necessary training and bringing back that data and saying, okay, yeah, I see we've been doing this for three weeks and look at that growth and it might be small, but o of course it's only three weeks, but we still wanna celebrate that, right? 00:26:25.643 --> 00:26:27.262 And then let's come back six weeks. 00:26:27.502 --> 00:26:32.452 And even beyond from there that we're continuing to bring that to the forefront as well. 00:26:33.173 --> 00:26:34.343 Yeah, absolutely. 00:26:34.343 --> 00:26:39.383 I have a, a fun story about how when I first came up with a student data dashboard and. 00:26:40.222 --> 00:26:42.173 My homeschool at the time, which was North College Hill. 00:26:42.173 --> 00:26:43.643 I even have my woo woo. 00:26:43.643 --> 00:26:45.323 I graduated from North College Hill. 00:26:45.593 --> 00:26:46.613 We shared that before. 00:26:46.613 --> 00:26:48.502 Yes, yes, yes, yes. 00:26:49.042 --> 00:26:52.163 Um, but, uh, that's my family. 00:26:52.163 --> 00:27:02.962 But anyways, um, but when I first started making the Student Data dashboard, you know, I, I remember the first year just getting up and saying, here it is to the staff. 00:27:03.442 --> 00:27:04.702 Yeah, here we go. 00:27:04.972 --> 00:27:05.242 Yeah. 00:27:05.333 --> 00:27:07.073 Don't use it. 00:27:07.073 --> 00:27:07.942 And then like. 00:27:08.782 --> 00:27:09.798 January, what did we do? 00:27:09.803 --> 00:27:12.143 January rolled around February, rolled around. 00:27:12.143 --> 00:27:14.393 And I was like, oh yeah, nobody's using it. 00:27:14.393 --> 00:27:17.782 And then like the higher ups were like, why isn't anybody using it? 00:27:17.782 --> 00:27:19.792 We're all just like, why isn't anybody using it? 00:27:20.303 --> 00:27:25.133 And it goes back to what that training has to happen in the moment. 00:27:25.133 --> 00:27:28.883 It has to be connected to whatever you're trying to accomplish. 00:27:28.883 --> 00:27:38.212 So as excited as I was about some cool dashboard, nobody else is that excited unless it's helping them accomplish what they need to accomplish. 00:27:38.573 --> 00:27:39.202 That's right. 00:27:39.203 --> 00:27:39.223 That's right. 00:27:39.262 --> 00:27:45.557 And so I think we're, we're often missing the mark, uh, with, with the disconnected beginning of the year, uh mm-hmm. 00:27:45.643 --> 00:27:46.883 Training that just end. 00:27:47.298 --> 00:27:48.107 Dropping off. 00:27:48.107 --> 00:27:49.637 And I can say that because I've done it. 00:27:51.377 --> 00:27:54.347 And as a leader, I hate hearing that so much. 00:27:54.347 --> 00:28:01.607 And, and as again, a leader and one that speaks and does trainings, I'm always like, no, I need to come back. 00:28:01.607 --> 00:28:08.417 Like, or I need to build in something where this is spiraling and ongoing, not a one and done. 00:28:08.417 --> 00:28:09.617 Thank you so much, Dr. 00:28:09.617 --> 00:28:10.788 Turn for coming. 00:28:10.998 --> 00:28:11.807 We loved you. 00:28:11.807 --> 00:28:13.337 And then, yeah, that's it. 00:28:13.518 --> 00:28:17.718 So because of that, and this is just a quick side plug, but because of that, yeah. 00:28:17.988 --> 00:28:35.748 I often leave, uh, materials and resources and follow ups for that reason because I see whether it's through budgets or time where schools, they do this one and done, and because of that, you miss the mark to really build it. 00:28:35.958 --> 00:28:36.738 And then. 00:28:37.157 --> 00:28:44.837 Before you know it, it's May and you're looking back and you're realizing, oh my goodness, we, we never picked that up again. 00:28:44.837 --> 00:28:46.577 Or we didn't do the follow up. 00:28:46.847 --> 00:28:59.748 And what impact could we have had if we would've just said, you know what, we're gonna hit on this quarterly, even if it's just, you know, 30 minutes quarterly at a staff meeting or PD session. 00:28:59.897 --> 00:29:09.137 We're continuing to roll that in as a reminder of this journey, the process, the goals, and how we need to move with this initiative. 00:29:09.887 --> 00:29:11.208 Yeah, absolutely. 00:29:11.208 --> 00:29:16.518 And I think about, you know, what, what made it so successful the second year? 00:29:16.518 --> 00:29:23.748 And a lot of it had to do with the fact that I, I mean, I didn't present on it at the beginning of the year for the school that used it the most. 00:29:23.748 --> 00:29:25.938 I did not present on it at the beginning of the year either. 00:29:25.938 --> 00:29:25.998 Wow. 00:29:26.897 --> 00:29:27.198 Yes. 00:29:27.877 --> 00:29:35.887 And the reason that it was used the most in that school was because they had a structure for meetings. 00:29:35.887 --> 00:29:36.758 Mm-hmm. 00:29:36.817 --> 00:29:44.317 And what they were doing previously was a lot of clicking into different platforms and finding different data and then pulling it all together. 00:29:44.917 --> 00:29:50.827 And instead they just said, okay, we're not like doing like this big training on the student day dashboard. 00:29:50.827 --> 00:29:53.738 We're just gonna bring it to the meeting and see how it helps. 00:29:54.367 --> 00:29:54.458 Yes. 00:29:54.458 --> 00:29:54.728 I love it. 00:29:55.298 --> 00:30:00.423 And yeah, and it helped with the efficiency of their meetings dramatically and

mm-hmm. 00:30:00.577 --> 00:30:01.748 Then they wanted to use it. 00:30:02.228 --> 00:30:02.347 Yes. 00:30:02.347 --> 00:30:12.248 So really just like bring it in in those moments as opposed to that, that disconnected training is so valuable. 00:30:12.248 --> 00:30:23.258 And, um, and you're right, just like touching on it over and over and over again and not letting it just fall to the wayside, um, is, is so important as well. 00:30:23.678 --> 00:30:27.097 Um, I wanna get back to talking about, um, there was. 00:30:27.968 --> 00:30:35.077 You had mentioned that you did some training in terms of diversity and looking at different kinds of data sets for that. 00:30:35.317 --> 00:30:46.718 So I wanna talk a little bit about the connection between, um, your experience with data and the, the more like equity center decision making that you've, that you've trained or worked with leaders on. 00:30:47.573 --> 00:30:48.232 Absolutely. 00:30:48.232 --> 00:30:49.942 And thank you so much for asking that. 00:30:49.942 --> 00:30:53.002 That's one of my, uh, favorite questions and topics. 00:30:53.272 --> 00:31:03.472 Uh, that's also one of my signature talks around addressing disproportionality and, uh, utilizing data from, uh, burnout to buy in. 00:31:03.742 --> 00:31:11.212 Uh, because I know from a leadership standpoint, uh, how quickly leaders as well as teachers can get burned out. 00:31:11.573 --> 00:31:22.432 And you, you really need to start turning that, um, needle or turning the dial, excuse me, in relationship to saying, Hey, we, we need this buy-in to get to that next level. 00:31:22.702 --> 00:31:32.573 So I wanna share, uh, some of my experiences around data, especially as it relates to, um, mandates expectations. 00:31:32.722 --> 00:31:36.442 And the reality is they are here, uh, and they are here to stay. 00:31:36.442 --> 00:31:36.893 Right? 00:31:36.923 --> 00:31:43.432 And they tell the story of our schools before we even get to share our stories, right? 00:31:43.432 --> 00:31:43.442 Yeah. 00:31:43.702 --> 00:31:46.163 And now with, uh, so many. 00:31:46.928 --> 00:31:51.788 News outlets, uh, releasing, uh, grades and scores. 00:31:51.968 --> 00:31:57.847 Again, this is what people see as the story of your school before they move to your communities. 00:31:58.057 --> 00:32:05.738 Before they decide to, uh, open businesses in communities or to send their students, uh, their children to schools. 00:32:05.738 --> 00:32:07.508 They look at these reports, right? 00:32:07.778 --> 00:32:09.218 What does that story tell? 00:32:09.518 --> 00:32:22.867 And so thinking about my experiences with the Ohio State report card, uh, even years ago and how it has shifted over the years, but more specifically looking at chronic absenteeism. 00:32:22.867 --> 00:32:29.228 And so already that topic has come up and we're only a handful of weeks into school. 00:32:29.228 --> 00:32:34.657 They're already seeing low performance, uh, as it relates to attendance. 00:32:34.958 --> 00:32:36.667 But again, remember I said. 00:32:37.032 --> 00:32:38.682 The data tells a story. 00:32:38.682 --> 00:32:40.002 So what is that story? 00:32:40.002 --> 00:32:43.093 Do we have, uh, transportation issues? 00:32:43.333 --> 00:32:48.762 Do we have, um, you know, uh, issues with our start times? 00:32:48.913 --> 00:32:49.663 And I get it. 00:32:49.663 --> 00:32:56.472 It's hard to shift, uh, now, but we want to hear that story as opposed to just relying on. 00:32:57.728 --> 00:32:58.867 Putting it out there. 00:32:59.077 --> 00:33:04.567 Hey, we had so many tardies or so many absences in the last week, let's do better next week. 00:33:04.807 --> 00:33:05.647 Well, how? 00:33:05.827 --> 00:33:06.583 Right, right. 00:33:06.587 --> 00:33:11.018 What resources and tools and strategies are we going to implement to do that? 00:33:11.018 --> 00:33:11.377 Right? 00:33:11.377 --> 00:33:14.377 And we see that that starts to lean in. 00:33:14.383 --> 00:33:14.502 Um. 00:33:15.718 --> 00:33:21.867 Really when we, uh, start to get to some of our, uh, more disproportionate, um, environments, right. 00:33:21.867 --> 00:33:24.688 Our traditionally marginalized environments as well. 00:33:25.018 --> 00:33:32.548 But I wanna share a story about, uh, enrichment versus, um, remediation and intervention. 00:33:32.577 --> 00:33:48.268 And when I was principal at Fairfield Middle School, one of the things that I noticed is that even though we had an excellent banner outside of our school and our students were high performing, it didn't tell the story for every student in our building. 00:33:48.268 --> 00:33:48.357 Mm-hmm. 00:33:48.597 --> 00:33:56.337 Especially our black and brown students, our students on an IEP as well as our economically disadvantaged students. 00:33:56.607 --> 00:34:05.278 And so I felt that it was kind of my task as the first black principal there, as well as just my background and experience to say. 00:34:05.752 --> 00:34:08.932 Let me dig deeper in this area, right? 00:34:08.932 --> 00:34:15.623 Because again, we are leaning back and excited about that excellent banner, but all students weren't connected to that, right? 00:34:15.623 --> 00:34:18.623 And so one of the things I started to look at is how we. 00:34:19.478 --> 00:34:23.768 Identified the students who received intervention as well as enrichment. 00:34:24.007 --> 00:34:32.858 And did we have to shift some of those expectations, uh, to align better to what was telling the story of that excellent banner? 00:34:32.858 --> 00:34:35.347 And we noticed that we needed to, right. 00:34:35.347 --> 00:34:49.387 We noticed that the, um, testing tool that we were using to identify our gifted students and our students who are going to be in our higher level courses, uh, wasn't fully aligned, didn't fully tell the story. 00:34:49.387 --> 00:34:59.168 And so instead of saying we're going to, um, take away some of these numbers and say, instead of, um, uh, 30. 00:34:59.492

--> 00:35:05.943 White students we're going to put in, um, 27 white students and reserve three spots for the black kids. 00:35:05.943 --> 00:35:07.112 We didn't do any of that. 00:35:07.112 --> 00:35:19.202 But what we did do was, uh, start to look at those bubble kids and say, how can we provide additional resources and support to help these bubble students? 00:35:19.202 --> 00:35:26.342 And oftentimes we had students who were missing these, uh, higher level courses by two points. 00:35:26.793 --> 00:35:32.132 So what could we have done to support them to be a part of that and to close the achievement gap? 00:35:32.193 --> 00:35:36.452 And that didn't mean we were taking away from the students who were already high performing. 00:35:36.512 --> 00:35:36.722 Right. 00:35:36.782 --> 00:35:38.103 We were adding to that. 00:35:38.103 --> 00:35:49.023 We were leveling the playing field and balancing that and looking at it from the standpoint of how can we provide intervention to support enrichment? 00:35:49.083 --> 00:35:49.472 Right. 00:35:49.657 --> 00:35:57.637 And traditionally it's looked at, well, how can we continue to provide this intervention to help build this student up, but build them up to what? 00:35:57.637 --> 00:35:57.967 Right. 00:35:57.967 --> 00:36:00.277 To being in a higher level class. 00:36:00.637 --> 00:36:11.438 Otherwise, to me, the way that achievement gap was, there was a scenario where, uh, the students that we were working to build up would never catch up. 00:36:12.007 --> 00:36:12.458 Right? 00:36:12.458 --> 00:36:12.668 Yeah. 00:36:12.697 --> 00:36:18.427 Unless we started to provide that enrichment to build, uh, that intervention to build toward enrichment. 00:36:19.177 --> 00:36:37.898 So I just gave you a, a couple of scenarios and stories, um, just on how I utilize the data, uh, as a principal and to bring about the shifts, especially, um, to I improve in equitable, uh, situations and to build that up. 00:36:38.137 --> 00:36:41.108 Um, and then also thinking about disproportionality. 00:36:41.108 --> 00:36:54.608 I was in a building where we had, uh, been flagged for disproportionality in discipline and, um, the steps that we had to take, and again, that started to look right down to the system. 00:36:54.847 --> 00:37:03.637 What is our system that we are using and why are these students being flagged at higher rates than their white counterparts? 00:37:04.927 --> 00:37:05.708 Yes. 00:37:05.737 --> 00:37:06.398 Yeah. 00:37:06.847 --> 00:37:11.648 Um, it just makes me, it brings my brain right back to like, how can we. 00:37:12.878 --> 00:37:17.257 Again, not, we're not bringing one group down to bring another group up. 00:37:17.257 --> 00:37:17.318 No. 00:37:17.617 --> 00:37:30.128 How can we adjust the supports to make sure that everyone has that, that opportunity for that enrichment or that opportunity to get to school on time or whatever it is. 00:37:30.458 --> 00:37:36.157 What can we do additionally to make sure that we are, um, giving everyone that opportunity? 00:37:36.487 --> 00:37:36.577 Right. 00:37:36.847 --> 00:37:37.927 Love that conversation. 00:37:37.927 --> 00:37:39.547 That could be another three hours. 00:37:39.967 --> 00:37:40.012 Oh, yes. 00:37:40.327 --> 00:37:40.688 Yes. 00:37:40.688 --> 00:37:49.057 And it's, and that also connects to the re um, to the resource that I'm providing, um, which is addressing disproportionality. 00:37:49.057 --> 00:37:54.367 It's a framework for a school that, um, or any school or district that needs that support. 00:37:54.367 --> 00:38:07.807 And it could be that you're not quite in disproportionality as identified by the state, but you do see an imbalance as it relates to, uh, discipline or closing the achievement gap from one subgroup to the next. 00:38:07.807 --> 00:38:08.858 So thank you. 00:38:08.858 --> 00:38:14.978 And yes, that can be a whole other, uh, conversation and it's something I'm very passionate about and love to talk about. 00:38:15.577 --> 00:38:17.737 Uh, so I'll just slow down because of that. 00:38:18.038 --> 00:38:19.538 'cause we'll be on it all day. 00:38:19.742 --> 00:38:20.092 Right. 00:38:20.592 --> 00:38:22.838 Um, I'm right there with you, but, okay. 00:38:22.838 --> 00:38:25.987 So you mentioned it, it's a survey. 00:38:25.987 --> 00:38:26.318 Yes. 00:38:27.217 --> 00:38:30.257 Complete a brief survey to receive the free resource guide for addressing this. 00:38:30.273 --> 00:38:30.492 Yes. 00:38:31.498 --> 00:38:33.057 Ality words. 00:38:33.358 --> 00:38:37.257 Um, so I'm gonna add that in our show notes. 00:38:37.257 --> 00:38:41.338 So if you're looking for the link to that, please, please, please check out the show notes. 00:38:41.728 --> 00:38:45.208 In addition to that, how else can people find you? 00:38:45.898 --> 00:38:46.918 Wonderful. 00:38:46.918 --> 00:38:48.987 They can reach me on my website. 00:38:49.047 --> 00:38:54.208 It is my name, dr crystalline.com. 00:38:54.538 --> 00:39:03.717 And, uh, that's the easiest and best way because it links you to my Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and YouTube channel. 00:39:04.438 --> 00:39:04.918 Yeah. 00:39:04.918 --> 00:39:05.458 Perfect. 00:39:05.518 --> 00:39:09.612 Well, thank you so much for coming on and having this conversation, conversation. 00:39:09.617 --> 00:39:20.577 Um, there was so many amazing actionable, um, little, little, little trinkets that people can walk away with from this episode. 00:39:20.577 --> 00:39:21.387 Yes, I love that. 00:39:21.867 --> 00:39:22.858 I love it. 00:39:24.608 --> 00:39:25.327 Oh, I'm sorry. 00:39:25.327 --> 00:39:29.918 I was just gonna say I love it and I, I so appreciate the opportunity. 00:39:30.248 --> 00:39:34.237 Um, and you know, I hate that it's such a short period of time, but I get it. 00:39:34.568 --> 00:39:44.047 Um, because again, we can talk on and on about this, so thank you Jessica, for the opportunity to come on and chat with you about our favorite subjects, right. 00:39:44.047 --> 00:39:44.467 Data. 00:39:44.467 --> 00:39:46.057 Yeah, absolutely. 00:39:46.057 --> 00:39:52.597 And, and I'll make sure that you like, get a chance to come back and talk more because Yes, like I said, it's a, it's a big conversation. 00:39:52.597 --> 00:39:54.338 So thanks again. 00:39:54.338 --> 00:39:55.507 I appreciate it. 00:39:55.507 --> 00:39:57.878 And um, I'm sure my audience will as well. 00:39:58.568 --> 00:39:59.467 Thank you.