התמלול המלא של Why Quitting Porn Took More Than Olympic-Level Discipline

like, well, sorry, no, my school bag and then my diving bag was like two backpack thread just on the getting on the bus into town train from from four to seven and then, um, yeah, come home pretend to do some homework and then, you know, do it all again. 04:36.892 --> 04:46.822 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, what did it ultimately take to go from, you know, being the kid who loved diving and competing, you know, to diving and competing at the Olympic Games? 04:48.143 --> 04:53.589 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it wasn't an unbelievable thing. 04:55.270 --> 04:57.513 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a big part of me that's still like, 04:58.714 --> 05:06.220 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I can't believe that that actually happened because it was the dream, like I said in the beginning, it was always like, you are here because we're trying to get people to the Olympic Games. 05:06.800 --> 05:15.307 [SPEAKER_00]: So it was my dream and it was also a dream that I, let's say, bought into, but I was never, I was never the extra special one. 05:15.968 --> 05:21.472 [SPEAKER_00]: There was always like there was a few guys who were exceptional and I was never the one who really stood out. 05:22.112 --> 05:25.015 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I did, I never really fully believe it was possible and there's some reason. 05:27.301 --> 05:28.202 [SPEAKER_00]: And I still struggle with this. 05:28.222 --> 05:31.845 [SPEAKER_00]: I had quite low self-esteem in some regards. 05:31.865 --> 05:35.508 [SPEAKER_00]: And when it came to diving, I never felt like I was good enough. 05:36.469 --> 05:38.611 [SPEAKER_00]: There was the term imposter syndrome. 05:39.865 --> 05:57.371 [SPEAKER_00]: I really felt that towards myself as a diver and that people would see that I'm not very good that I'm weak and so I put a lot of pressure on myself to try and be better to try and prove myself and I think that is what in some sense got me to the Olympic game because that was a lot of drive there. 05:58.511 --> 06:04.693 [SPEAKER_00]: So when it did actually happen and then even in 2016 like I started, so it was the real Olympics 2016 that I competed in. 06:05.353 --> 06:16.176 [SPEAKER_00]: And even at the start of that year, I don't think any people in British diving would have said like, yeah, Freddy's going to be on the team because there's so many hoops to go through those other people who were, you know, you'd probably say, we're ahead of me. 06:17.237 --> 06:28.780 [SPEAKER_00]: And so when it when it did all come together, I was like, I couldn't, I couldn't really believe it, um, but also looking back, you know, I think I should have believed it more, you know, trusted in myself, more. 06:28.820 --> 06:31.161 [SPEAKER_00]: But nevertheless, it was a life-changing experience. 06:31.523 --> 06:46.325 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well it's, I mean it's truly incredible to have made it, you know, to the Olympics and through diving in the journey that you've had and as you mentioned it, diving was really all consuming for so much of your life growing up as a young person and 06:46.946 --> 06:52.031 [SPEAKER_03]: It's interesting because we're here today to talk a little bit about your experience with pornography. 06:52.211 --> 06:59.418 [SPEAKER_03]: And so I want to talk about the role that that played in your life, but can we just start with when did pornography first enter your life? 06:59.658 --> 07:02.161 [SPEAKER_03]: And what do you remember about that first exposure? 07:03.431 --> 07:10.820 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I don't remember specifically what age I was when I first saw hardcore video content online. 07:11.561 --> 07:17.668 [SPEAKER_00]: But I remember the kind of stuff that it was and even before that, I was very interested in 07:19.155 --> 07:21.937 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, like, women, the female body, let's say. 07:22.097 --> 07:26.041 [SPEAKER_00]: From a young age, like, I had a Guinness Book of World Records book. 07:26.681 --> 07:31.785 [SPEAKER_00]: And in there were two pages, and they were like full page pictures. 07:31.905 --> 07:35.468 [SPEAKER_00]: And one was the world's most expensive lingerie set. 07:35.528 --> 07:37.610 [SPEAKER_00]: And the other was the world's most expensive bikini. 07:38.391 --> 07:41.313 [SPEAKER_00]: And obviously they're being done by a beautiful woman. 07:43.475 --> 07:46.137 [SPEAKER_00]: And I remember being really interested in those pages. 07:46.157 --> 07:54.702 [SPEAKER_00]: So I just, I'd be reading the Guinness Book of Records and getting inspired by it, but really I'm just, like, looking at those specific two pages. 07:55.383 --> 07:56.784 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was young then. 07:56.804 --> 07:59.506 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm probably like six, seven, eight years old. 08:00.916 --> 08:17.792 [SPEAKER_00]: And then also in the UK, we have this newspaper called The Sun, and they've changed things now, but at that time on page 3, so you're basically, you turn over the inside cover and then like right there, you have almost completely naked women, so like breasts out. 08:18.433 --> 08:27.577 [SPEAKER_00]: And so like, again, as young boys, you know that you're going to like a corner shop or like a newspaper store and like if you just open the sun, you'll be able to see like that. 08:29.037 --> 08:30.678 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I was pretty interested in that. 08:31.198 --> 08:39.262 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think I even like had a stash of like just page three that I, you know, taken out like stored somewhere in my room. 08:40.178 --> 08:41.740 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, definitely something that I was interested in. 08:41.840 --> 08:45.144 [SPEAKER_00]: But then, yeah, obviously, with the internet and 08:49.052 --> 09:02.955 [SPEAKER_00]: with even being around like older men through diving in particular because like in school you don't really, you know, you don't really sort of integrate around your years, you know, you don't like, I'm as an 11 year old, you're not hanging out with like the 18 year

old. 09:03.955 --> 09:10.616 [SPEAKER_00]: But in diving it was a bit different, which is an amazing thing, like this is not a criticism of diving or like the club that I was in. 09:10.736 --> 09:13.597 [SPEAKER_00]: It was great, but obviously you've got these influences from older guys and 09:15.037 --> 09:33.688 [SPEAKER_00]: your you've dropped on conversations and even you know videos are shared and you see what they are and so you know I thought it would explore that myself and yeah I would guess like I guess somewhere from 11 to 13 it's probably like when I started watching that stuff and again I remember in the beginning it was like 09:34.923 --> 09:47.331 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, it was sort of stripped easy type things, um, but that was the stuff they're like, I think I first started watching, um, and then obviously, you know, things escalated from there. 09:47.531 --> 09:47.791 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 09:48.091 --> 09:49.072 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 09:49.992 --> 09:54.955 [SPEAKER_03]: And how did your relationship with pornography change as you moved through your teenage years? 09:55.776 --> 09:55.956 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 09:55.976 --> 10:02.160 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't really, it's kind of, I don't, I don't really know when it became a daily thing, but I think it was pretty quick. 10:03.386 --> 10:12.711 [SPEAKER_00]: Because my memory is that all through sort of mid, mid teenage years, you know, like, 14, 15, and then onwards, it is pretty much a daily thing. 10:12.751 --> 10:20.494 [SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, maybe on Sundays, maybe more, like, that's my day off training, the day that I'm supposed to be like at home, working. 10:21.255 --> 10:27.258 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think I was also even a little bit more isolated from friends in school, because I had loads of friends. 10:27.318 --> 10:31.520 [SPEAKER_00]: That wasn't an issue, but I like wasn't in the outside of school, social groups. 10:33.120 --> 10:47.166 [SPEAKER_00]: If that makes sense, I was just like, you know, because of all Fred's diving, like, Fred's diving, so, you know, so then on the Sunday, it was, I remember a lot of the time, like, not necessarily like having loads to do and I'm all I'm supposed to be getting on was say homework and catching up with school because otherwise I'm so busy. 10:48.106 --> 10:51.748 [SPEAKER_00]: So, some days could be more problematic, but yeah, in general, it's just like, well, I have, 10:53.255 --> 11:02.462 [SPEAKER_00]: I had access to a computer and it became just pretty much a daily ritual. 11:03.783 --> 11:05.024 [SPEAKER_00]: But I didn't really think anything about. 11:05.044 --> 11:12.410 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought, well, this is incredible that I have access to this, how lucky am I. 11:14.152 --> 11:15.213 [SPEAKER_00]: And why wouldn't I watch this? 11:16.063 --> 11:21.765 [SPEAKER_00]: like I'd be crazy not to, so yeah, you know, let's go, that was kind of what's you to it. 11:22.785 --> 11:28.586 [SPEAKER_03]: When did you first start noticing that your pornography used might be becoming a problem for you? 11:30.047 --> 11:38.829 [SPEAKER_00]: So the first, I said, I say, I say that most of the time, it was like, oh, this is, yeah, this is fine, but there was a small needle in the back of my mind 11:42.300 --> 11:43.101 [SPEAKER_00]: exam times. 11:43.341 --> 11:48.505 [SPEAKER_00]: So, in the UK you have important exams, like 15-16 and then you also have like 18. 11:49.886 --> 12:03.298 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, both of those sets of exams, I'm trying to do a maths, like past paper, to try and study, let's say, and you get stuck on a question, and to all I want to do is watch porn. 12:04.447 --> 12:13.651 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's just like the air in my mind, like, ah, you know, and then the classic excuses, like, well, yeah, just take this small break, and then you'll be able to focus afterwards and hold these kinds of things. 12:13.931 --> 12:15.251 [SPEAKER_00]: So I didn't like that. 12:15.732 --> 12:26.916 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't like that I couldn't just get on with with doing, say, my homework or my revision, but I didn't really analyze that too deeply. 12:28.117 --> 12:29.697 [SPEAKER_00]: And then obviously that carried on. 12:30.818 --> 12:32.539 [SPEAKER_00]: And I still thought I was completely justified 12:35.298 --> 12:43.001 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't really see, then at all, how it might affect my behavior with women, like I didn't, I didn't see a problem now. 12:43.021 --> 12:46.263 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought like I had female friends, I had some girlfriends. 12:46.583 --> 12:52.065 [SPEAKER_00]: There was nothing obvious that I was doing that was like clearly misogynistic or something. 12:52.825 --> 12:55.206 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I didn't think there was a problem there. 12:55.346 --> 12:57.207 [SPEAKER_00]: It was mostly around productivity. 12:57.307 --> 13:02.769 [SPEAKER_00]: And so as I continued and as I left school, I decided not to go to university just to train full time 13:05.042 --> 13:27.488 [SPEAKER_00]: the living end and in the UK where we're not very good well we're not good at all at combining like studying sport like the US and so but I wanted to be in the UK because I wanted to be with my coach you know I wanted to be like relevant to the GBT not like a bit sort of out of sight out of mind in you know Texas A&M or something right 13:29.788 --> 13:44.421 [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, so, but then at leaving school and I'm like not studying anymore, so I've got no reason really to be behind a piece of technology other than just say socially or for fun. 13:46.303 --> 14:00.388 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that was sort of okay because I was diving like that was the thing that I was doing, but I also like, still didn't like the decide, you know, if I ever tried to, I don't know, learn a course or like edit a video or something like that, porn was just really in the way. 14:00.528 --> 14:04.230 [SPEAKER_00]: So that frustration was building a little bit,

but it was still like back of mind. 14:05.458 --> 14:10.083 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I suppose that was when it's like that was the the first signs of it. 14:10.123 --> 14:22.895 [SPEAKER_00]: And then obviously as as things, um, you know, I think it's progressed and like, I mean, you know, it's clean content of me got leaked online, which I'm short of about a little bit more that was when I was really faced with like, 14:24.432 --> 14:26.274 [SPEAKER_00]: No man, I think you've had you got a problem. 14:26.294 --> 14:36.244 [SPEAKER_00]: And what you're doing is it's not it's clearly behavior that isn't well thought out and in line with who you really want to be and yet you're doing this anyway. 14:36.284 --> 14:38.626 [SPEAKER_00]: So that was like the big kind of shock moment for me. 14:39.072 --> 14:50.957 [SPEAKER_03]: right, but just going back for just a moment, the way that you've spoken about this, it really sounds like you had no knowledge of porn possibly having negative effects, right? 14:50.977 --> 15:03.542 [SPEAKER_03]: It was so normalized, it was available, had anyone had conversations with you about, about porn at all, or was it just kind of something that was like, oh yeah, this is just normal, this is expected 15:09.212 --> 15:10.935 [SPEAKER_00]: pretty much. 15:11.617 --> 15:18.310 [SPEAKER_00]: I remember one time I got challenged by my dad because he'd in my school plant. 15:18.330 --> 15:18.851 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm probably 14. 15:20.375 --> 15:23.637 [SPEAKER_00]: maybe 15 and in my school like kind of planner journal thing. 15:24.278 --> 15:39.348 [SPEAKER_00]: Someone had written loads of different URLs for like these kind of niche porn sites but it was a joke and they weren't like the classic ones anyway so I had no use of them so when he saw that I was just like well no this is guy just messing around which is all true so he called me out on that. 15:40.129 --> 15:40.509 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 15:42.455 --> 15:45.377 [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, beyond that, like, no, nothing. 15:45.537 --> 15:45.817 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 15:46.377 --> 15:54.842 [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things that I've reflected on, again, recently is, I even, again, at some point in the back of my mind, I was like, is this an addiction? 15:54.942 --> 15:56.523 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, is this normal, you know? 15:57.124 --> 15:58.644 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I googled that. 15:58.664 --> 16:00.986 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is before everything got released on that. 16:01.026 --> 16:02.487 [SPEAKER_00]: And I would guess 1819. 16:03.247 --> 16:03.487 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure. 16:03.727 --> 16:06.429 [SPEAKER_00]: And I googled like, you know, what is poor addiction? 16:06.729 --> 16:08.190 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you know if you're addicted to porn? 16:08.210 --> 16:10.792 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, probably a lot of guys of googled. 16:11.982 --> 16:18.305 [SPEAKER_00]: And I can't remember exactly what the source was, but I found this article, and it might have been the

BBC. 16:18.325 --> 16:19.785 [SPEAKER_00]: That's my memory, but I don't know for sure. 16:19.865 --> 16:31.450 [SPEAKER_00]: So, sure, I can't really say, but it was like, well, but I distinctly remember, it's saying that, point of action is probably, if you're watching for 10 hours a week or more, 16:32.405 --> 16:33.906 [SPEAKER_00]: then you might have an addiction. 16:34.346 --> 16:35.888 [SPEAKER_00]: But less than that, you're okay. 16:35.908 --> 16:36.988 [SPEAKER_00]: Like this is what I read into it. 16:37.769 --> 16:40.771 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm watching 20 to 30 minutes a day, probably. 16:40.811 --> 16:41.232 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty sure. 16:41.712 --> 16:48.477 [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, like, I go to bed, like, I open my laptop, one of the act out, and that's, I kind of, it's 20 minutes late, roughly. 16:48.497 --> 16:53.421 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm like, well, so I'm not close off. 16:53.441 --> 16:54.521 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like, yeah. 16:56.447 --> 17:09.611 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's a bit, and then I, yeah, but that did actually buy me years more kind of use of just not really not really questioning it or just kind of squashing all of my doubts. 17:10.191 --> 17:10.951 [SPEAKER_00]: I said, I was fine. 17:11.391 --> 17:16.792 [SPEAKER_03]: Because if you're always just adding up to that 10 hours every week, well, I'm not even close to the 10 hours. 17:16.832 --> 17:22.034 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I get four times worse before I'm an addict, you know, like, 17:23.534 --> 17:42.849 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so yeah, I think, and I do think that that's one of, that's like such a big, such a big problem, and even, you know, like, I mean, yeah, doctors advice and, you know, I think this is one of the good things of social media now that that, I mean, there's lots of problems with it, but, you know, content like mine or other people's will, you know, is it's kind of, 17:43.722 --> 17:44.562 [SPEAKER_00]: finding people. 17:44.642 --> 17:59.609 [SPEAKER_00]: And so you're not just, um, because again, you know, I wouldn't really, even, and again, now things might be different, but I wouldn't really even trust necessarily like a, your regular doctor to, even give you the rise advice on this, you're like, necessarily. 17:59.869 --> 18:04.611 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to like, name, you know, single people out, but sort of generally speaking, sure. 18:04.631 --> 18:06.672 [SPEAKER_00]: And yes, certainly back then, I just think the, 18:09.374 --> 18:14.317 [SPEAKER_00]: the kind of, you know, global opinion on it was just that, yeah, but, you know, it's okay. 18:15.138 --> 18:15.398 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 18:15.498 --> 18:16.939 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's educational, even. 18:17.800 --> 18:30.990 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure, which is, you know, what a lot of people say about it, especially when they aren't having conversations with trusted adults or they don't have somewhere else to go to answer questions that are natural and normal about sex. 18:31.130 --> 18:33.172 [SPEAKER_03]: They turn to pornography and so it's something 18:37.175 --> 18:44.103 [SPEAKER_03]: UC in pornography isn't necessarily an accurate representation of, you know, healthy intimacy or, um, 18:44.708 --> 18:45.489 [SPEAKER_03]: healthy relationships. 18:45.529 --> 18:56.758 [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm curious to know, were you aware of like what was going on emotionally when you were most likely to turn to pornography through all of those years? 18:56.818 --> 19:12.131 [SPEAKER_03]: Was that something that was like, okay, you know, I'm dealing with this high demand, you know, diving schedule, I'm dealing with school, I have so much structure and rigidity in your life generally, is that something that played a role in seeking out pornography, do you think? 19:13.410 --> 19:23.479 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's certainly played a role and like looking back, I can see clearly some of these emotional signals that I was unaware of. 19:24.059 --> 19:32.367 [SPEAKER_00]: I think really I was, yeah, I was not really not really aware of that and in tune of that at all at the time. 19:33.247 --> 19:35.630 [SPEAKER_00]: I think if you'd have asked me like, why did you watch a while? 19:35.730 --> 19:38.972 [SPEAKER_00]: Because I was bored, I'm sure I could have given you an answer like that, 19:40.285 --> 19:44.266 [SPEAKER_00]: which is obviously true and it's revealing, but I wasn't like going any layers deeper. 19:45.887 --> 19:58.970 [SPEAKER_00]: And I certainly wasn't seeing it as this crutch that helped me say deal with some of the shame and low self-worth that I was battling with every day with diving, for example. 20:00.351 --> 20:02.591 [SPEAKER_00]: Which I'm not looking back on now, I really see. 20:05.023 --> 20:22.468 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I think it's very clear to me now and this is something like I talk about a lot that it's, you know, it is, it's used as and I used it as this way to try and regulate my emotions or to try and escape what I was feeling or to order to manage what was going on. 20:22.508 --> 20:26.669 [SPEAKER_00]: But I certainly did not understand that at all. 20:26.689 --> 20:29.910 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like a teenage already, a young man. 20:32.728 --> 20:32.948 [SPEAKER_03]: right. 20:33.308 --> 20:36.029 [SPEAKER_03]: I want to bring this back to the Olympics for just a moment. 20:36.069 --> 20:39.871 [SPEAKER_03]: Can you remind me how old you were when you went to the Olympics? 20:40.291 --> 20:41.151 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd just earn 21. 20:41.872 --> 20:42.972 [SPEAKER_03]: Just earn 21 okay. 20:43.312 --> 20:52.056 [SPEAKER_03]: What was that like, I mean, we touched on this briefly earlier, but what was it like to reach the Olympics after spending so much of your life working toward that goal? 20:53.236 --> 20:54.977 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's so, it's so funny because 20:56.131 --> 21:02.322 [SPEAKER_00]: I think sport is one of those things that is like the ultimate long-term commitment or one of them, right?

21:02.342 --> 21:03.685 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I know is a seven-year-old. 21:04.613 --> 21:10.196 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't know if I really knew, but I bought into it nonetheless, like, I'm on this long, long, long journey. 21:10.396 --> 21:17.120 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, you know, okay, Freddy, like 14 years later, you're going to go to the Olympic Games, like 14 years, like, wow. 21:17.261 --> 21:17.641 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's good. 21:17.661 --> 21:23.164 [SPEAKER_00]: And you're going to be training, like basically every day and putting in all of that time and effort. 21:23.644 --> 21:27.967 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's an incredibly long term commitment, but then something, you know, porn is the complete opposite. 21:29.007 --> 21:31.650 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just immediate gratification, immediate. 21:31.710 --> 21:33.612 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the most short-term thinking that you can do. 21:34.112 --> 21:39.297 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's so counter-opposite to pawn. 21:40.098 --> 21:46.164 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, obviously like, yeah, it was just, I mean, the Olympics itself was this life-changing experience. 21:46.384 --> 21:52.330 [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, there's always this thing for athletes in some degree where afterwards you're like, oh, that was it. 21:53.262 --> 21:53.602 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 21:54.442 --> 21:54.582 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh. 21:56.043 --> 22:02.664 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, the better you do, the more you feel that, you know, I mean, I, so I think it's 19th, which I was super proud. 22:02.684 --> 22:03.964 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 22:03.984 --> 22:08.445 [SPEAKER_00]: I would have liked to have done slightly better, but I was still, it was a really solid performance. 22:08.465 --> 22:10.345 [SPEAKER_00]: But like a friend of mine, he won a gold medal. 22:11.045 --> 22:15.446 [SPEAKER_00]: And he had depression after it was like actual, actual depression. 22:16.286 --> 22:16.526 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 22:16.706 --> 22:20.107 [SPEAKER_00]: And like, kind of blew my mind, but it still sort of happens to everyone. 22:21.507 --> 22:26.529 [SPEAKER_00]: this thing I've been working for all this time, it wasn't actually the point. 22:27.449 --> 22:33.111 [SPEAKER_00]: The point was doing the thing and then you've done the thing and now that doesn't, it's not there anymore. 22:33.191 --> 22:35.652 [SPEAKER_00]: All you have to really decide to recommit to it. 22:38.133 --> 22:42.174 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, but at the same time, I was just overwhelmed with emotion. 22:42.194 --> 22:45.395 [SPEAKER_00]: I remember driving in my car like two or three weeks afterwards. 22:45.435 --> 22:46.336 [SPEAKER_00]: I just burst into tears. 22:46.356 --> 22:47.116 [SPEAKER_00]: I have no way. 22:47.136 --> 22:47.356 [SPEAKER_00]: Something 22:51.425 --> 22:52.307 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm an Olympian. 22:53.228 --> 22:55.070 [SPEAKER_00]: I can no one can take that away from me. 22:55.130 --> 22:57.874 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, it's kind of these, both of these things, but... 22:58.742 --> 23:00.743 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, so, so proud. 23:00.803 --> 23:06.025 [SPEAKER_00]: And as I said, I never really believed that I was my goal, but I never really believed that I was going to do it. 23:06.105 --> 23:10.786 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, yeah, it was some, yeah, it was amazing. 23:10.806 --> 23:21.410 [SPEAKER_00]: But just so, you know, the goal setting involved in sport is just so, like, counter-oppers it to, you know, what, the behavior that you do when you say using things like pornography. 23:21.988 --> 23:22.208 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 23:22.548 --> 23:24.169 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's what I wanted to ask you a little bit about. 23:24.189 --> 23:29.370 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's incredible that you made it to the Olympics finish 19 truly incredible. 23:30.570 --> 23:42.013 [SPEAKER_03]: But then what what was that transition really like after you don't have that goal in front of you anymore and what role if any did pornography play in kind of coping through that transition. 23:43.113 --> 23:45.453 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think it played a big role. 23:45.533 --> 23:46.934 [SPEAKER_00]: So I could I never really had to 23:48.827 --> 23:56.509 [SPEAKER_00]: deal with that, because as soon as I stopped, because I had this, after Rio, I actually thought about quitting anyway. 23:57.309 --> 24:05.211 [SPEAKER_00]: And my coach is like, just for more years, we've been now, we can take it off that pedestal, we can, let's see where we can go. 24:05.231 --> 24:08.392 [SPEAKER_00]: So the goal then was like, all right, top eight, top six. 24:08.952 --> 24:09.812 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was brought into that. 24:09.872 --> 24:13.393 [SPEAKER_00]: I knew the kind of things that I needed to do to hit those higher echelons. 24:14.480 --> 24:14.900 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, cool. 24:14.920 --> 24:21.642 [SPEAKER_00]: But then I had, I basically overtrained and got loads of injuries in my knees was kind of smashed. 24:21.662 --> 24:28.284 [SPEAKER_00]: And it rather than make progress, I sort of, I went backwards slash just kind of hell and other people really accelerated. 24:28.724 --> 24:30.385 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was still in the same city and I was like, 24:32.033 --> 24:34.195 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just not, I don't think I'm really bored into this anymore. 24:35.316 --> 24:41.340 [SPEAKER_00]: And it felt like what I would have to give to potentially get Saint Olympic medal or an Olympic final. 24:41.720 --> 24:45.183 [SPEAKER_00]: Just the balance that you was just off at that point. 24:46.238 --> 24:51.300 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I stopped, I did my last composition in the summer of 2018. 24:52.241 --> 25:01.004 [SPEAKER_00]: And then in October 2018, I went to, I flew to Miami, and I did a contract with Royal Caribbean, as a diver, as a performer. 25:01.564 --> 25:08.687 [SPEAKER_00]: And I started high diving, and I started doing more dancing, and being a showman rather than just an athlete. 25:08.727 --> 25:09.748

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, oh, this is, 25:10.548 --> 25:11.149 [SPEAKER_00]: great. 25:11.629 --> 25:13.350 [SPEAKER_00]: And like my efforts were collaborative. 25:13.370 --> 25:15.812 [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't like just me versus, you know, the world. 25:17.254 --> 25:27.482 [SPEAKER_00]: So it felt, you know, in a sense, having done all the sport, it felt more positive, you know, at the idea of few dives and it's a bit more chill and it doesn't really matter if it goes wrong. 25:27.502 --> 25:31.065 [SPEAKER_00]: And at the end of it, it's like, you know, you get a round of applause to everybody. 25:31.165 --> 25:34.087 [SPEAKER_00]: Got never going back to competitions. 25:36.772 --> 25:43.675 [SPEAKER_00]: So, but the problem with that was I didn't deal with the whole identity loss thing, because I was still Freddy the diver. 25:43.775 --> 25:51.418 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yeah, it was like, you know, it was Freddy the high-diver, I was Freddy the performer, but it was kind of the same general sort of box. 25:52.378 --> 25:56.200 [SPEAKER_00]: And so again, through that whole time in the back of my mind, though, it's like, 25:57.218 --> 25:59.000 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but like who are you? 26:00.201 --> 26:01.021 [SPEAKER_00]: What are your skills? 26:01.281 --> 26:02.122 [SPEAKER_00]: What can you actually do? 26:02.142 --> 26:05.205 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you can die of cool, excellent, you know? 26:05.245 --> 26:06.906 [SPEAKER_00]: But what are you really doing with that? 26:06.926 --> 26:08.808 [SPEAKER_00]: Like what value are you really bringing to the world? 26:10.449 --> 26:12.631 [SPEAKER_00]: And I really, I really hated that idea. 26:13.552 --> 26:20.137 [SPEAKER_00]: I remember watching with a friend I was watching this program called Terrace House, which is a Japanese reality TV show. 26:20.978 --> 26:23.360 [SPEAKER_00]: And this was before I had a Japanese partner, 26:24.558 --> 26:30.661 [SPEAKER_00]: And the Japanese are just like super sweet, and it's like they're all like living, it's like a load of young people living in a house together. 26:31.101 --> 26:39.485 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, a bit like the reality TV shows you'd see in the UK or America except they're all just there trying to progress their careers really. 26:39.566 --> 26:48.330 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's not that much drama and it's like, it kind of gets into more detail about like what they do and there was this one woman on it who was nilestrator. 26:49.723 --> 26:54.864 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, what I was like, exactly with my friend, we're trying to watch them just like fun, you know, lighthearted TV. 26:55.884 --> 27:00.165 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, sat there like almost having a panic attack, like, what are my skills? 27:00.425 --> 27:02.186 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, what can I actually do? 27:02.306 --> 27:08.087 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was really freaking, freaking myself out, but I sort of just still just like push that to one side. 27:08.967 --> 27:15.269 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think porn was the thing that was there to help me deal with that, you know, to like not face 27:17.112 --> 27:24.975 [SPEAKER_00]: me properly, you know, not face like ignore the responsibility of of developing myself and going out my comfort zone again. 27:25.035 --> 27:27.736 [SPEAKER_00]: Because yeah, I did something really uncomfortable with diving. 27:29.277 --> 27:31.058 [SPEAKER_00]: But 20 years later, it's not that uncomfortable. 27:31.238 --> 27:40.822 [SPEAKER_00]: And I also wasn't, I think because of porn as well, what I wasn't when I was an athlete was particularly proactive at doing things for like my future. 27:40.902 --> 27:43.323 [SPEAKER_00]: I was always very good at, I was pretty good at hobbies. 27:44.303 --> 27:45.183 [SPEAKER_00]: alongside diving. 27:45.223 --> 27:51.286 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I always like, I dabbled in things, and I tried things, I liked being creative, and like, you know, doing random stuff. 27:51.306 --> 27:55.307 [SPEAKER_00]: But I never, like, took that responsibility, like, yeah, but what work are you gonna do? 27:55.847 --> 28:04.450 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, are you, like, I wanted to do public speaking, but I didn't reach out to anyone, you know, I just waited for things to come to me, and these sorts of things. 28:07.102 --> 28:11.386 [SPEAKER_00]: And so then, yeah, I was left in this position where there wasn't a clear fallback. 28:11.847 --> 28:26.560 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think for my entire history porn was the thing that was like, ah, well, oh, you don't want to reach out to someone, you know, or you should probably maybe, if you want to do public speaking, you should reach out to people, no, it's okay, it'll come to me, everything will work out, like, you know. 28:27.461 --> 28:27.681 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 28:27.721 --> 28:27.922 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 28:28.842 --> 28:31.905 [SPEAKER_03]: And as that, I mean, that makes so much sense. 28:32.266 --> 28:38.491 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, you had no time to pursue other things when you're pursuing an, you know, Olympic path. 28:38.612 --> 28:41.855 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that journey makes a lot of sense. 28:42.335 --> 28:47.400 [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, from what we hear from other individuals who have experience to struggle with pornography, 28:47.920 --> 28:58.687 [SPEAKER_03]: who aren't pursuing the Olympics, it's a similar thing in a lot of instances of porn becomes this coping mechanism at such a young age and it's the thing that is always there for someone in difficult times. 28:58.767 --> 29:09.894 [SPEAKER_03]: And so it's as unique as your story is because not everyone on earth is an Olympian, it's so common as well for individuals to experience something in this way. 29:10.815 --> 29:15.539 [SPEAKER_03]: I want to ask you a little bit about as you were in that kind of transitional time. 29:16.800 --> 29:27.750 [SPEAKER_03]: Did you notice your pornography consumption escalating and did the things you were

consuming online, begin influencing your choices that you were making elsewhere in your life? 29:31.322 --> 29:46.502 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, my use certainly escalated in a sense, like what I watched, I think I began to be way more picky about what I would watch and could watch, for example, like for me, 29:48.344 --> 29:49.285 [SPEAKER_00]: in porn specifically. 29:49.545 --> 29:54.689 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this doesn't really, this doesn't didn't apply to real life, but like, breast size was something that was important to me. 29:55.310 --> 29:57.191 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, but not fake. 29:57.752 --> 30:13.144 [SPEAKER_00]: It was like large, like real seeming breasts, you know, and if it wasn't that, like I wouldn't, I wouldn't watch and then you'd, I'd spend a long time trying to find the right thing, and, and yeah, and other, you know, 30:15.255 --> 30:17.996 [SPEAKER_00]: other kind of storylines that felt right. 30:18.076 --> 30:33.619 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, without that, you know, so, whereas beginning, like just being able to be incredibly aroused with just a, like, a woman simply like taking a close-off, I was like, there's no way I would have watched that, you know, so far away from watching that as a clip. 30:33.639 --> 30:38.660 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, you spent spending long, going to find things and things just becoming less and less satisfying. 30:40.687 --> 30:49.030 [SPEAKER_00]: which I think is where my taste for like sending and receiving pictures and videos came from. 30:49.491 --> 30:53.332 [SPEAKER_00]: It was like the step above it was like a bit sort of riskier. 30:54.812 --> 31:00.555 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like more of a rush and yeah, so I think that's kind of where it escalated too. 31:01.255 --> 31:03.696 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I mean certainly in low times as well. 31:04.696 --> 31:29.802 [SPEAKER_00]: that's when I could really, that's when I could binge if, you know, a bad competition or like, I don't know, an argument with a partner or something like that or, or like, even sometimes like traveling and feeling uncomfortable, you know, not not feeling like settles in a in a place or like in a new place or like having to do something new and like going out and meeting people, you know, 31:34.463 --> 31:56.038 [SPEAKER_00]: a lot more and then that would that in itself would just drive this sort of this shame spiral of like what are you doing like this is you know this is like grows and like this isn't the real you and like why are you you know why are you here you know that that post-notclarity that people talk about and right you know so that yeah that that really started to to weigh on me 31:56.953 --> 32:04.757 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you mentioned this a little bit earlier in just a moment ago, but in 2017 there was some intimate content of you leaked online. 32:05.277 --> 32:08.619 [SPEAKER_03]: Can you tell us a little bit about what happened and what that experience was like for you? 32:09.980 --> 32:15.042 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I mean that was like that was one of if not like the worst day of my life really. 32:15.842 --> 32:16.103 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 32:16.783 --> 32:17.843 [SPEAKER_00]: It was so crushing. 32:18.764 --> 32:20.025 [SPEAKER_00]: But I've been dancing around that 32:25.975 --> 32:27.597 [SPEAKER_00]: and I was doing it anyway. 32:27.917 --> 32:32.081 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that, and also, you know, some of my peers had had similar things happen. 32:32.661 --> 32:36.605 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they might have had bigger profiles than me, but so I knew there's a thing. 32:36.625 --> 32:39.228 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's what made it hurt so much as well. 32:39.488 --> 32:43.392 [SPEAKER_00]: Was just as said, the mirror of like, this is what you've been doing. 32:43.892 --> 32:46.054 [SPEAKER_00]: You knew this might happen, and here it is. 32:46.975 --> 32:49.257 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was in a long distance relationship at the time. 32:50.382 --> 33:00.513 [SPEAKER_00]: And it actually, it first came to me by someone messaging my girlfriend at the time and sharing those images and saying that I'd sent them to him. 33:00.753 --> 33:03.797 [SPEAKER_00]: So it was a man talking to her saying that I'd sent them to him. 33:05.142 --> 33:07.544 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, maybe I had, but he'd been pretending to be a woman. 33:07.664 --> 33:22.936 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I don't know like what was going on there, but I even before that I knew that probably these people that I was talking to, I mean, some of them are like, some were people over the years, like I've shared pictures with people I know, right? 33:23.617 --> 33:24.558 [SPEAKER_00]: Or had or had met. 33:25.738 --> 33:37.330 [SPEAKER_00]: But obviously some, like, weren't it just like people who just, you know, appear on Instagram and, you know, it's like, they're good enough of a cover-up that you can sort of like light yourself and say, like, yeah, it's probably legit. 33:37.450 --> 33:42.956 [SPEAKER_00]: And nothing's nothing's happened now and, you know, and it's exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. 33:43.036 --> 33:44.757 [SPEAKER_00]: So, so you just sort of go along with it. 33:45.913 --> 34:00.778 [SPEAKER_00]: And but yeah, but still knowing in the back of my mind that this is just not not they're probably not who they say they are and so yeah, when that when that all broke obviously like then I, you know, we we ended up breaking up obviously because, you know, so much for for her to handle. 34:02.106 --> 34:11.589 [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, and I've been, you know, in faithful, because it's been, you know, obviously, jarring our relationship, I've been sharing stuff, and so that was terrible. 34:12.089 --> 34:15.751 [SPEAKER_00]: And I didn't, I didn't want people to find out. 34:15.951 --> 34:21.293 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, I had this thought of, of like, well, can I get jobs? 34:22.673 --> 34:31.340 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, would I be booked for, let's

say if I did become a public speaker like I was talking about before, would I be booked for that if they find this out? 34:31.861 --> 34:32.841 [SPEAKER_00]: What kind of implications? 34:32.881 --> 34:35.103 [SPEAKER_00]: Like my family, like all these things. 34:36.324 --> 34:39.687 [SPEAKER_00]: So it was just, it was just a, you know, it was just a worst. 34:39.907 --> 34:44.851 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm also in the process of trying to get stuff removed. 34:44.891 --> 34:50.856 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like discovering and uncovering all, you know, just scratching the surface of the kind of online forums 34:52.766 --> 35:01.772 [SPEAKER_00]: and seeing the way people are talking about me in these forums and people making money off my pictures and videos. 35:02.613 --> 35:05.855 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm the mug, you know, with getting nothing. 35:06.575 --> 35:10.458 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so the whole thing was was awful. 35:10.918 --> 35:18.444 [SPEAKER_00]: And I wasn't mature enough at the time to be able to just, like, hold my hands up and 35:21.397 --> 35:24.539 [SPEAKER_00]: This is what happened, and I should not have done that. 35:25.720 --> 35:27.682 [SPEAKER_00]: But this is me. 35:28.342 --> 35:30.324 [SPEAKER_00]: I just want it, I was trying to play like whack them all, you know? 35:31.825 --> 35:45.176 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, and so, from there also, the other sad thing about my story in that sentence is that because I didn't want people to know about that, and it's kind of like what if people find out what I wouldn't be able to get jobs, I just tried to contain the whole thing and like therefore disappear. 35:47.157 --> 35:53.779 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like I was like trying to be a massive influencer at the time, but like any thoughts of using social media kind of evaporated. 35:53.939 --> 35:55.679 [SPEAKER_00]: And I just like kind of pulled away from it. 35:56.519 --> 36:05.722 [SPEAKER_00]: And that should have been the very thing that I should have been doing to advance my career as an athlete or about to retire athlete or as a performer. 36:07.257 --> 36:12.864 [SPEAKER_00]: you know, and I think that something that most athletes should be should be doing or should be considering, like at least in this day and age. 36:12.884 --> 36:19.593 [SPEAKER_00]: And if I had been doing it then, like, right now would be a very different story, but instead I just lost there. 36:21.095 --> 36:25.501 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the confidence to even try it and I felt like I had just disappeared. 36:26.332 --> 36:26.532 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 36:26.752 --> 36:39.563 [SPEAKER_03]: To that experience, change your relationship with pornography or some of your other online behaviors like sending images or those, you know, communications that you mentioned with strangers, relatively strangers online. 36:40.083 --> 36:41.824 [SPEAKER_03]: Did that behavior change with this? 36:42.865 --> 36:43.806 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, with that stopped. 36:44.527 --> 36:47.069 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I stopped doing those things. 36:47.149 --> 36:53.133 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like way more on top of that, at least at least with 36:56.012 --> 36:57.774 [SPEAKER_00]: but then pornography, no. 36:58.095 --> 37:00.999 [SPEAKER_00]: And that was the time when I was like, okay, I've got to actually stop this. 37:03.843 --> 37:08.810 [SPEAKER_00]: And before then I'd had this feeling of like, oh, I didn't watch porn yesterday. 37:09.110 --> 37:09.431 [SPEAKER_00]: Nice. 37:10.585 --> 37:13.846 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so this like positive thought of like I didn't watch it. 37:14.107 --> 37:18.388 [SPEAKER_00]: So that was also a bit of a clue, but now at that point I was in OK, and I have to stop this. 37:18.408 --> 37:23.791 [SPEAKER_00]: And I just couldn't, I would go a week or two, kind of at best without it. 37:25.391 --> 37:27.773 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like that's what really triggered that to happen. 37:28.633 --> 37:32.194 [SPEAKER_00]: And then that's actually when I sort of feeling worse about myself really. 37:33.695 --> 37:35.696 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm working as a performer and like I love that. 37:35.716 --> 37:36.877 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a really good lifestyle. 37:40.399 --> 37:44.851 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not seeing the future so much, they're either like, what, where can I go from here, you know? 37:44.891 --> 37:46.235 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yes, this is a cool job. 37:47.227 --> 37:48.507 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm still cool, you know. 37:49.688 --> 37:51.128 [SPEAKER_00]: But where do I go from here? 37:52.649 --> 37:56.590 [SPEAKER_00]: So again, like my world and my confidence was also just like shrinking really. 37:57.090 --> 38:05.713 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, and I don't, I don't want this to be offensive to anyone, but like, it may as it's trying seeing myself as this kind of high-performing individual or wanting to be high-performing. 38:06.173 --> 38:10.475 [SPEAKER_00]: I just felt like I was just kind of, I had to therefore just ride out mediocrity. 38:12.483 --> 38:18.567 [SPEAKER_00]: And that just made me feel terrible actually, so that, yeah, that's where I kind of went to. 38:18.587 --> 38:37.683 [SPEAKER_00]: And then the whole time, I'm still using porn regardless, and I'm like having these thoughts of, well, so is this just me forever, you know, like I never imagined myself being 60 years old and watching porn, like that seems unbelievable, like having a family and watching porn, but nothing about where I'm at right now suggests that that wouldn't be the case. 38:38.382 --> 38:38.622 [SPEAKER_03]: right. 38:39.302 --> 38:45.743 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think what you said makes a lot of sense, you know, you became an Olympian, that takes so much discipline, right? 38:45.863 --> 38:47.924 [SPEAKER_03]: And you are a high performing individual. 38:48.544 --> 38:58.546 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm curious to know what struggling with pornography taught you about the idea that someone should just be able to stop when

they want to, right? 38:58.566 --> 39:02.686 [SPEAKER_03]: Because that would imply if you have enough discipline, you could just stop pornography at any time. 39:03.106 --> 39:05.227 [SPEAKER_03]: How did your experience with discipline really 39:08.868 --> 39:14.812 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think like again, built into my whole like athlete identity was just like you're not quite good enough. 39:14.852 --> 39:18.174 [SPEAKER_00]: So you just have to work hard and try hard to do more and be more. 39:18.974 --> 39:23.256 [SPEAKER_00]: And obviously like discipline is is a great tool. 39:23.417 --> 39:23.897 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. 39:25.218 --> 39:26.638 [SPEAKER_00]: And you don't you need it for life. 39:27.079 --> 39:29.220 [SPEAKER_00]: You do need it in some sense. 39:31.518 --> 39:34.700 [SPEAKER_00]: But when it comes, I just think porn does not respond. 39:35.560 --> 39:39.662 [SPEAKER_00]: Quitting porn doesn't respond to that at all. 39:39.702 --> 39:49.987 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's where so many men, including me, get really lost, but you have to see it from a different place. 39:50.007 --> 39:55.130 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you have to become actually a different person, really, a different version of you. 39:56.658 --> 40:07.387 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's amazing because I think eventually, like you can get to stage where, you know, where I'm at now, I don't have to fight to not watch porn because it's just not an option. 40:09.016 --> 40:13.458 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not, I won't do it, and yeah, do I think about it? 40:13.478 --> 40:16.820 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, of course, because of this, I'm talking about porn quite a lot. 40:17.741 --> 40:22.043 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, the idea comes into my mind, of course it does, but that's not a problem. 40:22.683 --> 40:33.469 [SPEAKER_00]: And I just think, being able to stop pornography for good was like a journey that I had 40:36.598 --> 40:44.041 [SPEAKER_00]: to get to a place of better self-awareness, better emotional intelligence, more emotional maturity in particular. 40:44.901 --> 40:49.663 [SPEAKER_00]: And like just seeing myself in a completely different way. 40:50.723 --> 40:57.226 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like when those sorts of things fall into place, it's like then it all changes and you don't need it anymore. 40:57.266 --> 41:02.708 [SPEAKER_00]: But before I was just kind of this like, the self-awareness was so low, so it's like, 41:03.844 --> 41:06.746 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's what discipline is not, it's not intelligent. 41:06.946 --> 41:12.430 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's say, it's not, it's not working on any form of higher level. 41:12.490 --> 41:24.177 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just a kind of tool that you've got and then you just kind of beating yourself over the head with it and I think that's sort of why it doesn't work, but I think a lot of, a lot of guys and particularly high performance are just kind of stuck in this place of like, well, that's the tool I've got. 41:24.958 --> 41:25.638 [SPEAKER_00]: So, what do you mean? 41:25.658 --> 41:26.559 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't use it. 41:32.369 --> 41:36.571 [SPEAKER_00]: on, you know, I think it's like doing what I needed to do to be able to quit porn. 41:36.591 --> 41:38.692 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not just, I haven't just quit porn. 41:38.712 --> 41:45.155 [SPEAKER_00]: I've also just like stepped into a like a happier, more peaceful version of me. 41:45.355 --> 41:47.976 [SPEAKER_00]: There still has lots of problems. 41:48.437 --> 41:59.742 [SPEAKER_00]: I've like enabled, you know, this progression and I'm like, and I'm less afraid of negative emotions and boredom and, you know, I'm still a bit ADHD, 42:02.610 --> 42:07.327 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, but I'm like, I'm sort of, I kind of know that and I'm okay with it and I have other things that I can do instead, you know. 42:08.368 --> 42:08.548 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 42:08.908 --> 42:19.932 [SPEAKER_03]: I love the way that you've described this journey because it really, it really isolates how pornography is really a symptom of a deeper problem. 42:19.952 --> 42:24.393 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, like, so for so many people, it's like, okay, if I can just quit the porn, that's the thing. 42:24.413 --> 42:27.414 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's like, well, why are you consuming pornography? 42:27.514 --> 42:28.654 [SPEAKER_03]: Why are you in this place? 42:28.975 --> 42:30.375 [SPEAKER_03]: And the way you described this 42:33.676 --> 42:57.217 [SPEAKER_03]: processing emotions and emotional intelligence and developing skills to cope with emotions as they come up rather than just trying to equip an RV like that's the true way to find kind of that lasting change, you know, rather than just whitenuckling your way through with enough discipline to try to quit, it's really being able to go to that deeper level and I love that you said you're so much happier now because 42:57.857 --> 43:13.432 [SPEAKER_03]: you've given yourself that space to process all of those things at that deeper level and we see that time and time again when people are able to really get to that place once they get past this idea that it's just, you know, the quitting, just the cutting it out of your life. 43:15.073 --> 43:16.194 [SPEAKER_03]: So I love hearing that. 43:16.614 --> 43:21.859 [SPEAKER_03]: For you personally, what really helped you make that lasting change? 43:22.019 --> 43:30.046 [SPEAKER_03]: Was there something specific or a day you remember or a specific tool that helped you personally? 43:30.967 --> 43:32.789 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I mean, there's a few things. 43:32.889 --> 43:37.533 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the first thing I would say is and this might be difficult to hear for a lot of men. 43:38.781 --> 43:39.761 [SPEAKER_00]: but I needed to hear this. 43:40.302 --> 43:46.564 [SPEAKER_00]: For a long time, I say I was trying to quit porn, but deep down I just wanted to control it. 43:47.424 --> 43:54.106 [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to feel like I was in control,

but maybe still on special occasions, I could use it. 43:55.727 --> 43:58.048 [SPEAKER_00]: a couple of times a year, one to every three months, I don't know. 43:58.368 --> 43:58.949 [SPEAKER_00]: Something like that. 43:59.509 --> 44:02.830 [SPEAKER_00]: If I ask myself myself honestly, that's where I wanted to be. 44:02.850 --> 44:09.614 [SPEAKER_00]: In this place where, yeah, no, I don't need this, but like, in the right moment, I'll have this like an amazing porn session. 44:10.907 --> 44:13.549 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's a very problematic way to think about it. 44:13.589 --> 44:18.211 [SPEAKER_00]: Because first of all, I'm making porn this reward for myself. 44:18.732 --> 44:19.992 [SPEAKER_00]: When in reality, it's not. 44:20.253 --> 44:22.014 [SPEAKER_00]: It's only taking away from my life. 44:22.754 --> 44:26.156 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's this illusion of thinking that it was giving me something. 44:26.176 --> 44:27.957 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think you have to kind of face yourself. 44:29.798 --> 44:32.600 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not saying you just have to immediately go cold turkey. 44:32.620 --> 44:35.241 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you have to do work around this. 44:35.281 --> 44:37.403 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think you also have to accept, I believe, 44:38.163 --> 44:42.464 [SPEAKER_00]: that you are heading towards a life without it, like completely without it. 44:43.225 --> 44:52.108 [SPEAKER_00]: So facing that and facing like what your real sort of intentions are around it, because there's a lot of debate about it. 44:52.168 --> 44:52.968 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it an addiction? 44:53.028 --> 45:00.711 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, because it's a behavioural, well, yes, because I mean, in some sense, I'm not really interested in that, because it's kind of a semantics problem. 45:01.871 --> 45:03.973 [SPEAKER_00]: It, to me, it behaves like an addiction. 45:04.434 --> 45:10.100 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, if you, you know, if you don't label yourself and I did, addict because that makes you feel more shame like I totally get that. 45:10.560 --> 45:16.206 [SPEAKER_00]: But for me, seeing it as an addiction makes the, the dealing with it easier. 45:17.147 --> 45:24.311 [SPEAKER_00]: because it's something, well, if it's an addiction, then it's like, you know, what, well, can an alcoholic have one drink? 45:24.611 --> 45:25.271 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, they can't. 45:25.451 --> 45:28.913 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I think that's the same with me in a sense. 45:29.113 --> 45:33.915 [SPEAKER_00]: And like, yeah, maybe after this, I could have I could watch some porn and like, everything would be okay. 45:34.335 --> 45:36.096 [SPEAKER_00]: But I've just, I've opened that door a little bit. 45:36.536 --> 45:41.919 [SPEAKER_00]: And then maybe even with where I am now, like, with no issues around it, maybe in two weeks, you'd be like, 45:46.807 --> 45:47.407 [SPEAKER_03]: We did it again. 45:47.447 --> 45:50.168 [SPEAKER_00]: And then before I know it, I'm watching it every day again. 45:50.528 --> 45:52.949 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it behaves like that to me. 45:53.009 --> 45:59.211 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, so I would say that, I would say the first, then a few things. 46:00.431 --> 46:04.092 [SPEAKER_00]: So I read the easy peasy way to quit porn or these crazy methods. 46:04.712 --> 46:07.033 [SPEAKER_00]: And that did help me actually. 46:07.853 --> 46:12.455 [SPEAKER_00]: Because it changed the way I saw pornography in my relationship to me to it. 46:13.195 --> 46:19.439 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, it didn't, you know, it didn't just like fix me like reading this, but once and then like, oh, okay, I'm done. 46:19.479 --> 46:23.301 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it sounds like some people have like a lot of success with it, but a lot of people don't. 46:23.381 --> 46:36.930 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I want to say to the people who don't or haven't tried it, I think it's a useful tool to reframe the way you see porn, and it might give you some space from it to sort of see light at the end of the tunnel, which is what happened to me a little bit. 46:38.537 --> 46:39.338 [SPEAKER_00]: reading that. 46:39.478 --> 46:45.343 [SPEAKER_00]: I had maybe, I don't know, three months away from it, which is like way longer than I'd ever done. 46:45.363 --> 46:46.244 [SPEAKER_00]: And I felt different. 46:46.264 --> 46:47.605 [SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, okay, this is interesting. 46:48.566 --> 46:50.207 [SPEAKER_00]: But from there, there was a lot more work to do. 46:50.687 --> 46:55.792 [SPEAKER_00]: I felt like that's kind of like surface level, but I hadn't really changed me as a person. 46:55.832 --> 46:58.894 [SPEAKER_00]: I hadn't got a deeper understanding of why I didn't 46:59.880 --> 47:20.508 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so these sorts of things, I think meditation is, and my meditation is one of the most powerful habits you can have, not just to help you quit porn, but to just improve the quality of your life in general, because it's all about awareness and being present in the moment and noticing what's coming up and not being fused to your thoughts. 47:20.528 --> 47:26.530 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, when emerge comes, if you're able to just see it as a bit of an object of consciousness, rather than, 47:27.510 --> 47:32.473 [SPEAKER_00]: Who you are, like completely consumed by in that moment, you've got a bit of separation. 47:33.054 --> 47:36.936 [SPEAKER_00]: Then it's easier to just let it come and go rather than just have to act on it. 47:37.677 --> 47:40.499 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think meditation helps break this authenticity. 47:40.639 --> 47:47.063 [SPEAKER_00]: It also helps you slow down, understand yourself, not be having to do something all the time. 47:47.083 --> 47:52.787 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, obviously we're in this, you know, the 21st century is amazing, but I mean, 47:54.002 --> 48:00.710 [SPEAKER_00]: Gosh, the challenges from a dopaminergic point of view are just unbelievable. 48:00.870 --> 48:02.892 [SPEAKER_00]: Everything

is trying to addict you, everything. 48:03.993 --> 48:09.320 [SPEAKER_00]: And Paul and I think is one of the most difficult and problematic ones because it lives in the dark. 48:10.707 --> 48:15.973 [SPEAKER_00]: it taps into something that we're naturally wired to want anyway, and then supercharges that. 48:16.894 --> 48:22.921 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, of course, I want to watch naked with me and like, why wouldn't I, you know, like we were talking about in the beginning? 48:22.961 --> 48:26.205 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I think it's from that point of view, it's also really confusing. 48:27.987 --> 48:53.080 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, understanding that and trying to do really anything you can to get away from this like immediate, like short-term gratification stuff, action, so, you know, long-term thinking, I think making sure that you have a long-term vision or goal in place, you know, so I, like, I wanted to go to the Olympics and then after that, 48:54.940 --> 49:00.342 [SPEAKER_00]: What was my, I didn't really have a goal for the future. 49:00.382 --> 49:05.584 [SPEAKER_00]: I was just trying to like make things work and have fun and like, okay, cool. 49:05.604 --> 49:07.345 [SPEAKER_00]: But there wasn't this great a vision for the future. 49:08.465 --> 49:11.006 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think you need, you need something like that. 49:11.666 --> 49:16.128 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and then I guess kind of this should also be maybe the first thing I say, but 49:18.612 --> 49:23.114 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's recognizing that everything can change. 49:23.254 --> 49:24.214 [SPEAKER_00]: Everything is temporary. 49:24.254 --> 49:24.894 [SPEAKER_00]: You're identity. 49:24.914 --> 49:28.115 [SPEAKER_00]: The way you see yourself. 49:28.215 --> 49:29.935 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not this fixed thing. 49:29.955 --> 49:33.116 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people would call this a growth mindset. 49:33.376 --> 49:36.797 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that's something that you have to adopt. 49:38.158 --> 49:39.238 [SPEAKER_00]: I can change. 49:39.498 --> 49:40.858 [SPEAKER_00]: I can be a different person. 49:41.198 --> 49:42.039 [SPEAKER_00]: And you absolutely can. 49:42.059 --> 49:42.759 [SPEAKER_00]: Because you're different. 49:43.568 --> 49:52.295 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, all the time, you're constantly evolving and adapting, it depends where you are, who you're with, you know, even your thoughts themselves, they're not even really yours anyway. 49:52.355 --> 49:53.917 [SPEAKER_00]: They just, you know, they just sort of show up. 49:53.997 --> 50:03.465 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think embracing this idea of change and that you can is essential, because if you think you can't change, well, you won't, you know. 50:04.668 --> 50:13.572 [SPEAKER_00]: If you think you're sort of doomed to be addicted to porn forever, then it's going to be more difficult to come away from it. 50:13.593 --> 50:21.196 [SPEAKER_00]: But if you accept the fact that there's been times in your life where you didn't watch porn, there was an age where you didn't need it. 50:21.657 --> 50:24.458 [SPEAKER_00]: When you imagine your future self, you never imagine them using it. 50:24.478 --> 50:26.959 [SPEAKER_00]: So you can change, you don't need it. 50:29.382 --> 50:40.835 [SPEAKER_00]: and yes, of course, seeing all of this does take time and learning some of the emotional maturity and emotional regulation thing. 50:41.055 --> 50:43.718 [SPEAKER_00]: It's real work, but it's so worth it. 50:46.177 --> 50:47.838 [SPEAKER_03]: that's so beautifully said. 50:48.498 --> 50:51.039 [SPEAKER_03]: There's so many more things I would love to talk with you about. 50:51.080 --> 50:54.141 [SPEAKER_03]: I love hearing your perspective on all of these. 50:54.881 --> 50:58.964 [SPEAKER_03]: We're about at times, so I just want to ask you about one final thing. 50:59.144 --> 51:03.946 [SPEAKER_03]: You've said you're more proud of quitting porn than making it to the Olympics. 51:04.666 --> 51:07.568 [SPEAKER_03]: Can you tell us why that accomplishment means more to you? 51:10.976 --> 51:20.921 [SPEAKER_00]: It's because, and this connects really well with what we were just talking about, but it's, it was me facing me, and I was in complete control of all of that. 51:21.121 --> 51:29.064 [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas the Olympics, yes, I could work really hard, but it's an external goal, and Olympic selection isn't my choice. 51:29.244 --> 51:31.165 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm not in control of the other athletes. 51:31.325 --> 51:36.988 [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, I obviously, I'm immensely, I'm immensely proud of the Olympics, 51:40.348 --> 51:56.022 [SPEAKER_00]: and it's something that I wasn't totally in control of, whereas this was a battle, maybe that's a wrong word, but this journey that I had to face with myself, and I had to, and I am having to face myself. 51:57.487 --> 52:06.169 [SPEAKER_00]: but seeing how much my life has changed for good and how much more happy and content I am. 52:07.729 --> 52:15.051 [SPEAKER_00]: And just seeing the joy in little things even more and how my relationship has flourished. 52:15.091 --> 52:19.572 [SPEAKER_00]: And now I'm engaged and she's 18 weeks pregnant and 52:20.292 --> 52:21.393 [SPEAKER_03]: Congratulations. 52:21.653 --> 52:22.253 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much. 52:23.814 --> 52:44.125 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I just, these amazing things and like the headspace that I'm in to be able to really appreciate them more, is just, is just the best feeling and it's like, you know, that when everything got released online, let's say, like that was, that was like one of the worst days of my life for sure. 52:44.145 --> 52:44.565 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 52:45.165 --> 52:46.346 [SPEAKER_00]: But now it's like I'm, 52:47.505 --> 52:59.416 [SPEAKER_00]: That's also allowed me to come on this journey and you know, it maybe it was a trigger for me to actually get away from porn like earlier than I might have done and like that's

just changed my life completely. 52:59.436 --> 53:02.299 [SPEAKER_00]: And now I'm able to talk about it and talk about something real. 53:03.240 --> 53:10.187 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, when I was an athlete, I, because I wasn't like right at the top, I wasn't Tom Daley if you've heard of him. 53:12.325 --> 53:17.248 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, some big profiles in diving and like they deserve all the credit they get and I was like sitting just below that. 53:17.268 --> 53:19.010 [SPEAKER_00]: So I never really got a spotlight. 53:19.950 --> 53:24.934 [SPEAKER_00]: But I always felt like I wanted to share some of my opinions and some of my thoughts and stuff. 53:24.954 --> 53:27.756 [SPEAKER_00]: But I just never really had that opportunity and I didn't make it happen for myself. 53:28.696 --> 53:41.265 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, like, I've been on, you know, one of the biggest morning TV shows in the UK, like talking about this, which is scary, but it's also, it's like it's something real. 53:42.277 --> 54:00.364 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm not just talking about some like BS and like pretending that it's important and yeah, not everyone's going to get this of course, and that's okay, but like it's it's it's real, you know, it's important and Yeah, so I just, you know, I just see those these few things that just have made it. 54:01.384 --> 54:06.726 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, something that yeah, I'm I am very I am very proud of and like the direction of my life. 54:06.786 --> 54:10.788 [SPEAKER_00]: I just feel much happier about. 54:11.684 --> 54:11.884 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 54:12.284 --> 54:24.934 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, Freddie, thank you so much for sharing all of your experiences with us in this forum and in this spotlight and we're certainly grateful that you have gone in the journey of gone on to be here. 54:24.954 --> 54:30.178 [SPEAKER_03]: I know there are so many of our followers and supporters in those listening 54:30.658 --> 54:40.972 [SPEAKER_03]: to this episode who will benefit immensely from being able to hear your vulnerability and transparency throughout this conversation and to continue to follow your journey. 54:41.793 --> 54:48.242 [SPEAKER_03]: If that's something that can be helpful for them, do you want to share where listeners can learn more about you or continue to follow you? 54:48.978 --> 54:49.579 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sure. 54:49.619 --> 54:51.641 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think probably the best place is Instagram. 54:52.722 --> 54:55.885 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think my handle is Freddie Woodward dot men's coach. 54:56.746 --> 55:00.791 [SPEAKER_00]: I have a couple of accounts, but that's my one that's like purely dedicated to this. 55:02.252 --> 55:03.273 [SPEAKER_00]: So I would say go there. 55:03.293 --> 55:06.577 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm on YouTube as well, but mostly, mostly on Instagram. 55:07.358 --> 55:12.422 [SPEAKER_03]: amazing and we'll be sure to link that as well for our listeners to be able to to find you and follow you. 55:12.502 --> 55:13.723 [SPEAKER_03]: So thank you again. 55:13.863 --> 55:17.086 [SPEAKER_03]: It's such an honor to get to meet you and to speak with you today. 55:17.106 --> 55:31.677 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm looking forward to continuing to follow your content and your journey as we all kind of bring our voices together in this movement to help people see how much happier and healthier life can be without pornography. 55:31.737 --> 55:32.398 [SPEAKER_03]: So thank you. 55:32.998 --> 55:33.298 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. 55:33.318 --> 55:41.044 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and thank you, and for you for providing this space and this platform and for sharing, you know, spreading this message because it's it's difficult. 55:41.064 --> 55:44.547 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we need, we need, we need the work that you're doing as well. 55:44.587 --> 55:45.067 [SPEAKER_00]: So thank you. 55:45.608 --> 55:46.028 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you. 55:51.055 --> 55:53.736 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for joining us on this episode of Consider Before Consuming. 55:54.336 --> 55:57.256 [SPEAKER_02]: Consider Before Consuming is brought to you by Fight The New Drug. 55:57.776 --> 56:14.720 [SPEAKER_02]: Fight The New Drug is a non-religious and a non-legislative organization that exists to provide individuals the opportunity to make an informed decision regarding pornography by raising awareness on its harmful effects using only science, facts, and personal accounts. 56:15.260 --> 56:18.141 [SPEAKER_02]: Check out the episode notes for resources mentioned in this episode. 56:18.661 --> 56:22.184 [SPEAKER_02]: If you find this podcast helpful, consider subscribing and leaving a review. 56:22.645 --> 56:23.746 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks again for listening. 56:24.266 --> 56:26.268 [SPEAKER_02]: We invite you to increase your self-awareness. 56:26.648 --> 56:27.549 [SPEAKER_02]: Look both ways. 56:28.170 --> 56:29.231 [SPEAKER_02]: Check your blind spots. 56:29.771 --> 56:31.473 [SPEAKER_02]: And consider before consuming.