התמלול המלא של EP14 – Building Trust in Mental Health Resources: The All Kinds of Therapy Story with Jenney Wilder

like, 04:20.590 --> 04:24.133 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll get family's 20 minutes and then I'll be like, all right, can you just go to all kinds of therapy? 04:24.153 --> 04:24.493 [SPEAKER_02]: No, okay. 04:25.014 --> 04:37.724 [SPEAKER_02]: But I, but it has it, it's been, it's been so useful because I always say this in the work I do and helping, especially with adolescents and young adults over the years, I don't know everything. 04:37.964 --> 04:45.610 [SPEAKER_02]: I, but what I've been fortunate enough to do is I'm a connector, hence, a connector call, and also I'm a collector. 04:46.672 --> 04:47.312 [SPEAKER_02]: and connector. 04:47.392 --> 05:01.661 [SPEAKER_02]: So I've collected some of the best people in the industry that have struck a chord with me and or, you know, resources that families can use that don't cost you anything, but that you can utilize every day. 05:01.921 --> 05:08.164 [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, when I have families question whether a program is good or they're looking and they're not sure. 05:08.464 --> 05:09.925 [SPEAKER_02]: I always say, well, let's double check. 05:09.945 --> 05:10.426 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go on 05:14.668 --> 05:19.289 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I wanted to place for families to land that was like cars.com, right? 05:19.369 --> 05:25.911 [SPEAKER_01]: Like these families were in the middle of a crazy crisis and I wanted them to be able to compare side by side. 05:26.571 --> 05:36.273 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's when I started the work, you know, a program, streaming programs, boarding schools, you name it. 05:36.313 --> 05:38.814 [SPEAKER_01]: They were FedEx scene for sure. 05:38.854 --> 05:41.334 [SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, this is terrible. 05:45.168 --> 05:48.551 [SPEAKER_01]: had a database, but it was only as good as it was last updated. 05:49.311 --> 05:49.992 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 05:50.012 --> 06:00.560 [SPEAKER_01]: So having worked in the web, previous to switching careers, I was like, why isn't there a website where you can do this? 06:00.660 --> 06:10.808 [SPEAKER_01]: So I had this idea in 2005, but I also recognized that I couldn't be a consultant and get money from treatment providers. 06:13.507 --> 06:15.389 [SPEAKER_01]: ethically that didn't work for me. 06:15.590 --> 06:19.514 [SPEAKER_01]: Me and my parents getting in the way me too, me too. 06:19.734 --> 06:27.423 [SPEAKER_02]: It's no, but it, but it is, and I think, you know, listen, and we talk about, we're going to talk about this a little bit, you know. 06:29.573 --> 06:46.931 [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people, a lot of programs, you know, have good marketing and know how to market themselves and and say that they're doing something maybe they're not doing and so even in my role, you know, as I say to families to trust the people that I'm referring them to. 06:47.732 --> 06:51.916 [SPEAKER_02]: It's taken me a really long time to compile that list of people I trust. 06:52.216 --> 06:56.540 [SPEAKER_02]: And I know are doing the good work

for kids and for families. 06:57.261 --> 07:05.988 [SPEAKER_02]: And over the years, you know, there have been other lists or this kind of webs, but there's nothing like all kinds of therapy. 07:07.069 --> 07:10.773 [SPEAKER_02]: And as the years have evolved, you've also evolved with the need, you know, with 07:11.233 --> 07:16.457 [SPEAKER_02]: you know, you're even now filtering based on insurance companies and who's paying for what. 07:16.917 --> 07:27.385 [SPEAKER_01]: I added, I mean, I added accreditation because I wanted families to now even look, I understand just if you're joint commission accredited co-curve. 07:28.048 --> 07:41.696 [SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't mean that there can't be a problem at the provider, but it doesn't mean that that programs are making sure that fire extinguishers are in the right place and that the policies and procedures. 07:42.436 --> 07:56.785 [SPEAKER_01]: And I put that at the top so that people could see so much of the website and everything about it is really to demystify the insider information that you and I know we're speaking a different language when we get on the phone. 07:57.509 --> 08:04.114 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, this is this and this and the parents have this and this and they're looking for X, Y, and they have this in trend. 08:04.534 --> 08:11.859 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the insider, the insider baseball language that we speak to one another, I wanted to bring that out. 08:12.360 --> 08:16.523 [SPEAKER_01]: And I wanted partners who were willing to be that transparent. 08:17.143 --> 08:20.686 [SPEAKER_01]: So the staffing ratios parents don't. 08:21.473 --> 08:24.615 [SPEAKER_01]: know that when they're looking at a trip provider, right? 08:24.675 --> 08:27.257 [SPEAKER_01]: The staffing ratio is almost more important. 08:27.277 --> 08:31.379 [SPEAKER_01]: How many hours do you train that staff until they get on the floor? 08:32.219 --> 08:40.564 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that matters more than almost, you know, the relationships we know that's from all the outcome data, right? 08:40.584 --> 08:45.828 [SPEAKER_01]: The relationship staff have and I would say to families when I was working with the Mexican 08:47.093 --> 08:53.757 [SPEAKER_01]: you're going to be connected to the clinician, your child is going to be connected to particular staff numbers. 08:54.418 --> 08:57.720 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's going to be a different experience that way. 08:57.960 --> 09:12.870 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's why a couple episodes ago, and it was a really important episode for me, all of these episodes are, but one of the biggest ones for me was bringing on to heavy hitters and admissions, Curtis Gerard from MSB with visions 09:13.730 --> 09:27.347 [SPEAKER_02]: Jennifer Sawyer from Driftwood to really talk to admissions directors because what was so frustrating for me representing programs was time and time again parents weren't asking the right questions nor did they know what questions to ask. 09:27.967 --> 09:28.528 [SPEAKER_02]: And to me, 09:29.484 --> 09:38.850 [SPEAKER_02]: the investment in treatment is just as important if not more than going to college or university or getting the new car. 09:39.031 --> 09:48.057 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so to me, none of that matters if you don't have your kids or your mental health and check and you're not okay. 09:48.357 --> 09:57.022 [SPEAKER_02]: you know, and I say to parents who just look at like the ticket, you know, how much treatment program is I said, do you do that when you're looking at the colleges before they apply? 09:57.083 --> 09:58.764 [SPEAKER_02]: No, you're visiting these colleges. 09:58.924 --> 10:00.265 [SPEAKER_02]: And you're going to fast. 10:00.305 --> 10:00.825 [SPEAKER_02]: You're going to fast. 10:01.345 --> 10:02.586 [SPEAKER_02]: You're going through the process. 10:02.686 --> 10:04.707 [SPEAKER_02]: This is just as important if not more. 10:05.048 --> 10:12.832 [SPEAKER_02]: And having licensed credentialed people working with your children, having a family program, having the right 10:17.355 --> 10:20.658 [SPEAKER_02]: are so important, and nobody knows how to ask these questions. 10:20.698 --> 10:31.787 [SPEAKER_01]: So I, again, this is why I have over 250 blogs, and I encourage anyone who's listening to go to the blog section, and type in questions. 10:32.127 --> 10:35.590 [SPEAKER_01]: And the first thing, the first blogs I wrote, 10:36.210 --> 10:37.732 [SPEAKER_01]: We're in 2000. 10:38.252 --> 10:40.054 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was even before I launched the website. 10:40.074 --> 11:00.332 [SPEAKER_01]: We're all the questions that I used to give families that I was working with one on one So questions to ask if you're looking at residential treatment questions to ask if you're looking at wilderness therapy questions to ask if you're a young adult so good You know because I question to ask if you're hiring a transport company, I mean there's right big boom 11:02.614 --> 11:24.757 [SPEAKER_01]: you know, or an interventionist or you know, or if you're hiring an intervention like there's a blog that's actually got this really long title that you can the families can ask the questions because even when you're hiring a professional or you're touring a program or you're whatever you're doing right. 11:25.273 --> 11:25.594 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 11:25.674 --> 11:35.894 [SPEAKER_01]: It's really hard to hold on to all of the things that you want to ask while while you're in crisis while your kid is struggling. 11:36.921 --> 11:37.481 [SPEAKER_02]: which I get. 11:37.842 --> 11:42.705 [SPEAKER_02]: But yet, they were really quick to hire Alex the recovery coach. 11:43.205 --> 11:45.047 [SPEAKER_02]: They met it in AA meeting, right? 11:45.807 --> 11:48.049 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, what qualifications does this guy have? 11:48.129 --> 11:49.510 [SPEAKER_02]: How much is he charging? 11:50.110 --> 11:52.832 [SPEAKER_02]: And you're still paying him as we are talking. 11:53.233 --> 11:56.235

[SPEAKER_02]: And I am telling you for the same amount of money if not less. 11:56.795 --> 12:14.708 [SPEAKER_02]: I am going to hand the liver somebody who was licensed, who isn't going to mess this up for you, right, and it's just that's been very frustrating for me is and I will stress this on every episode is the work that we do, especially in in behavioral health mental health addiction, it's the only. 12:15.838 --> 12:21.541 [SPEAKER_02]: You won't, you won't find this when someone has physical ailments or medical needs, right? 12:21.861 --> 12:29.646 [SPEAKER_02]: It's only with us where we're talking about the brain, the disease of the brain, where parents and families will say, I got this. 12:30.366 --> 12:32.708 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for your help, but I can do this on my own. 12:33.273 --> 12:42.283 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, you don't do that when you break your leg or if you're in the middle of chemo and your doctor says things are going well, you don't step back and go, all right, we're going to stop right now. 12:42.623 --> 12:47.268 [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to, we're going to pull back on that now because this is what we, you know, it's, it's amazing. 12:47.288 --> 12:49.090 [SPEAKER_02]: It feels like we're at the right spot. 12:49.751 --> 12:54.095 [SPEAKER_02]: That's where my family is just saying, I'm like, yeah, so we're doing good. 12:54.115 --> 12:54.996 [SPEAKER_02]: You can pull back. 12:55.396 --> 12:57.058 [SPEAKER_02]: We don't need to keep this going. 12:57.559 --> 13:05.086 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and it's why I find it and I don't mean to shame families with it, but I really do look to how my mother was and my mother 13:06.373 --> 13:35.554 [SPEAKER_02]: I always say it's a parent's note you there's no way you could have can love your kid more than my mom loved me but she was real quick to pick up on as smart as she was and she was a teacher and she knew a lot and she tried to mother me with a lot of stuff she knew right away I can't fix this I can't help you I can't mom this away I'm gonna have to hire professionals and look to the professionals for clinical supervision and follow their lead and not listen to my kid 13:36.114 --> 13:41.018 [SPEAKER_02]: because, you know, and I'm like, if my mom can do it, why can't everybody else do it? 13:41.218 --> 13:41.638 [SPEAKER_02]: Right now? 13:41.838 --> 13:42.079 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 13:42.099 --> 13:44.781 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, I just don't understand that. 13:45.101 --> 13:49.164 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's really hard to, for family. 13:49.184 --> 13:52.086 [SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, to the listeners, we haven't even started the questions. 13:52.106 --> 13:55.809 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is how great we are, then, and I think you're very kind. 13:56.369 --> 13:58.451 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I think what's amazing. 13:59.435 --> 14:00.015 [SPEAKER_01]: about. 14:00.275 --> 14:08.439 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is one of the reasons when I started the website, I didn't

have the expert section because I realized I could not have these conversations anymore. 14:10.219 --> 14:17.902 [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted the families to get served, but I couldn't be the one answering the questions. 14:18.662 --> 14:21.103 [SPEAKER_01]: And not every expert 14:28.485 --> 14:29.886 [SPEAKER_01]: is the same kind of person. 14:30.066 --> 14:38.649 [SPEAKER_01]: And I wanted people who were going to be and that's in that area of the website who would be transparent with what they can and can't do. 14:39.669 --> 14:40.489 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you. 14:40.670 --> 14:51.033 [SPEAKER_01]: Like knowing their lane and not everyone knows their lane professionally and luckily for me, I've always known my lane because it's fundamental. 14:51.053 --> 14:53.294 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, me too. 14:53.494 --> 14:54.955 [SPEAKER_01]: Insecure him and he was like, 14:55.655 --> 15:14.109 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not my skill set and that's why I didn't have a lot of addiction in recovery when I first started the website Right I have a handful of people including yourself who I am calling and being like right is this a good Program to try on the website Because it wasn't my skill set. 15:14.369 --> 15:19.093 [SPEAKER_01]: I have a blog written by the wonderful 15:20.346 --> 15:27.990 [SPEAKER_01]: God rest his soul, Adam McCling, who helped me understand, because we were talking one day about intervention. 15:28.050 --> 15:29.871 [SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, what is the history of interview? 15:29.892 --> 15:31.012 [SPEAKER_01]: And he rambled it off. 15:31.032 --> 15:33.193 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, yeah, so can you put that in writing for me? 15:33.253 --> 15:36.775 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just one of the blogs that still get the ton of traffic. 15:37.296 --> 15:39.537 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm all about, I was a history major. 15:39.557 --> 15:44.360 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I love context, and then I can understand where things fit. 15:45.206 --> 15:49.170 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's also something, you know, I try to, I love over the years. 15:49.651 --> 15:53.675 [SPEAKER_02]: Someone mentored me in being a rep, rep, you know, connector. 15:54.416 --> 15:59.201 [SPEAKER_02]: And I try to mentored the youth today who are representing programs. 15:59.422 --> 16:04.147 [SPEAKER_02]: And I first thing I say to a lot of them is don't let your ego get in the way. 16:04.407 --> 16:05.909 [SPEAKER_02]: You don't know everything. 16:06.269 --> 16:11.654 [SPEAKER_02]: And the worst thing you can do for a family is thinking you do and not getting out of the way. 16:11.954 --> 16:24.145 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I am the first one to refer on to the experts who were licensed, who have the credentials, who were doing the good work and were helping and not hurting people, you know. 16:24.165 --> 16:25.486 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely. 16:25.527 --> 16:27.088 [SPEAKER_01]: There are so many different 16:27.705 --> 16:36.127 [SPEAKER_01]: niches when I was consulting and then when I started the website, I didn't know about Christian treatment. 16:36.167 --> 16:38.428 [SPEAKER_01]: You and I've talked about this offline before. 16:38.528 --> 16:38.808 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 16:39.408 --> 16:48.631 [SPEAKER_01]: And I got in touch with a consultant who specialized in that and had a conversation, got to know that person, which put me in touch with 16:49.602 --> 17:04.208 [SPEAKER_01]: a treatment provider that is an advertising partner of mine now who's helped me break blogs about this and understand that market that is not just Christian, it is treatment first and foremost. 17:04.228 --> 17:04.348 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 17:04.368 --> 17:05.909 [SPEAKER_02]: With a clinical foundation. 17:05.929 --> 17:06.629 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, with thank you. 17:06.829 --> 17:08.050 [SPEAKER_01]: Underpinnings. 17:08.270 --> 17:13.092 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think you and I come at us from a perspective of a rising tide risk as all ships. 17:13.152 --> 17:14.452 [SPEAKER_01]: We like to talk about tides. 17:14.532 --> 17:15.172 [SPEAKER_01]: I live in Maine. 17:17.633 --> 17:26.226 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, but I see this all the time because I do have a lot of parents and I am not anti faith based what I am anti is any treatment. 17:27.100 --> 17:45.465 [SPEAKER_02]: where there is in a clinical foundation, where there isn't, there, I mean, we're, I'm telling you right now, and any program that doesn't have mastered level, whatever, you know, staff, you know, that I'm, again, I have nothing against God or worth Christ or faith-based treatment. 17:45.485 --> 17:50.867 [SPEAKER_02]: What I'm against, and we will get into this as well, is, and I think you'll be able to, 17:52.322 --> 18:02.190 [SPEAKER_02]: clarify this a little bit more for me as well is I get a little scared when I see the words behavioral modification or you know I don't see this clinical foundation. 18:02.210 --> 18:14.780 [SPEAKER_02]: I I say to these parents as much as I may pray and look to my God in times of need I promise you when someone like myself or a loved one gets sick we go to a doctor first. 18:15.160 --> 18:32.945 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, and that's the way we have to look at mental health and addiction and everything we're dealing with, you know, we can't just look to the church and if they if more people could understand that there are tons of programs out there where there is a great clinical foundation and they are faith based and that is great. 18:33.206 --> 18:41.088 [SPEAKER_02]: But there's also a lot of programs where I wouldn't send because there isn't a good clinical foundation and that's not just faith based programs, that's just in general there's programs. 18:41.088 --> 18:44.932 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there are so many programs that I'm like, wait, what, who's that? 18:45.012 --> 18:53.840 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, really on when I launched the website, I have a monthly newsletter that comes along with it, and I was gathering email addresses. 18:54.520 -->

18:57.523 [SPEAKER_01]: This is when I was actually on top of who was on the mailing list. 18:57.583 --> 18:59.165 [SPEAKER_01]: And there were someone from the FBI. 18:59.325 --> 19:05.050 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I, of course, being a proper person who grew up in the Washington, D.C. area, afraid of, right. 19:05.664 --> 19:08.305 [SPEAKER_01]: government believing in lawyers and insurance companies. 19:08.865 --> 19:10.966 [SPEAKER_01]: I looked into who this person was. 19:11.206 --> 19:16.709 [SPEAKER_01]: And they were investigating a treatment provider in the state that they were based in. 19:16.849 --> 19:21.470 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, OK, it's a good thing that this person is subscribed to my newsletter. 19:21.551 --> 19:29.174 [SPEAKER_01]: I want them to hear the things that are happening on a monthly basis that are more positive than I am. 19:30.034 --> 19:31.855 [SPEAKER_01]: And transparent parent and this level 19:35.295 --> 19:41.017 [SPEAKER_01]: didn't always exist in the behavioral health space mental health space. 19:41.117 --> 19:50.281 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like there was a whole lot of information, probably in the 80s and 90s that wasn't talked about happening. 19:51.501 --> 19:56.783 [SPEAKER_02]: Like when we would send a child who was questioning their sexuality or gender to a program where 19:58.002 --> 20:01.443 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it was behavioral modification, and to me I'm like, be transparent. 20:01.463 --> 20:02.504 [SPEAKER_02]: What are you trying to say? 20:02.684 --> 20:05.745 [SPEAKER_02]: Like are we trying to change who they are? 20:05.765 --> 20:20.530 [SPEAKER_02]: Because I've read reviews on certain treatment programs where I've seen a mother say, you know, we, you know, my, my son Nicholas wanted to be Alexis, but thank God we found this program because Nicholas came home to us, and I was like danger. 20:20.950 --> 20:23.211 [SPEAKER_02]: What is that conversion therapy? 20:23.251 --> 20:23.691 [SPEAKER_02]: Hello, and 20:24.451 --> 20:26.432 [SPEAKER_02]: And I want people to be transparent. 20:26.452 --> 20:29.734 [SPEAKER_02]: I want to know who you are and what you're doing. 20:30.494 --> 20:35.756 [SPEAKER_02]: And I wish, again, you know, and I'm glad I only have control of my podcast. 20:35.876 --> 20:49.963 [SPEAKER_02]: And I am here to educate, but as I say before, I wish our industry had something like, you know, Wall Street has the SEC, you know, and somebody like Bernie made off comes around and we crank up the rules and regulations to make sure none of that. 20:50.163 --> 20:51.024 [SPEAKER_02]: continues, right? 20:51.144 --> 20:56.831 [SPEAKER_02]: And I wish we had some policing of that nature for treatment. 20:57.011 --> 20:58.273 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a fascinating problem. 20:58.313 --> 21:06.863 [SPEAKER_01]: Like Google had put in legit scrap certified programs right for Google to try to control some of this stuff that was happening there. 21:07.786 --> 21:11.068 [SPEAKER_01]:

and people have come to me and say, you're not legit script certified. 21:11.088 --> 21:13.850 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, well, I don't advertise on Google. 21:14.671 --> 21:16.192 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I do think it's differently. 21:16.612 --> 21:29.061 [SPEAKER_01]: But there is no overarching, like, looking at, and this is, you know, it gets all into states' rights and each one of these states' regulates totally differently. 21:29.121 --> 21:33.724 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, Utah is highly regulated environment because it has a lot of providers. 21:33.764 --> 21:36.066 [SPEAKER_01]: There are other states that have no regs. 21:36.777 --> 21:51.285 [SPEAKER_01]: So there is no state regulation, so when I was consulting, I would be like, okay, but do you have some some sort of national accreditation just so you're answering to those higher things, you know, 21:53.945 --> 22:13.783 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, what was it called, our DP research designated programs that and I believe, uh, natap has research designated programs and really that research is being done by the third party, um, right, but families don't know that when they're looking, they're like, oh, look at the outcomes from this provider. 22:13.843 --> 22:15.444 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, uh, they did their own. 22:17.059 --> 22:35.512 [SPEAKER_02]: No, and you know, the last episode I just did with Derek Daily about the Wilderness program, what's been really sad is, you know, and I'm not denying it didn't happen to her and it's happened to kids is because this program wasn't overseen by anybody is, you know, Paris Health and Story was true. 22:35.632 --> 22:36.333 [SPEAKER_02]: It did happen. 22:36.733 --> 22:39.335 [SPEAKER_02]: But that doesn't mean that a lot of 22:42.677 --> 22:46.760 [SPEAKER_02]: We should all the good treatment for adolescents or young adults should be lumped into that. 22:47.000 --> 22:50.442 [SPEAKER_02]: Is the, you know, bad treatment because or the, and it's changed. 22:50.602 --> 22:51.283 [SPEAKER_01]: It's evolved. 22:51.543 --> 22:52.964 [SPEAKER_01]: It's changed. 22:53.024 --> 23:01.490 [SPEAKER_01]: So there are so many treatment providers in Utah when I got into this work in 2005, I was amazed at the volume of treatment providers. 23:02.130 --> 23:06.833 [SPEAKER_01]: that were started by people who had worked at X-Wires. 23:07.113 --> 23:19.200 [SPEAKER_01]: There were a couple of Oregon companies at that time, Truman Providers, and they had come out of that, and they said, we started this program because we believe in relationship-based therapy, and this, 23:19.983 --> 23:45.077 [SPEAKER_01]: And we wanted to do smaller and we wanted to do recreation therapy built in and and and and and not her kids and not her kids and really have relationships on it on a professional level train staff to to this level and recognize that kids don't come out don't finish a treatment provider program with like a bow on them. 23:49.181 --> 23:52.183 [SPEAKER_01]: keep a young person in this program. 23:52.263 --> 23:53.844 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, no, they need their family. 23:53.905 --> 24:03.772 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's another shift that's happened is there's so many more residential programs that really much more incorporate families. 24:05.400 --> 24:09.462 [SPEAKER_01]: One of my, should go back to like one of the programs that I'm thinking about. 24:09.482 --> 24:12.643 [SPEAKER_01]: They had news in my newsletter last month that by the way, everybody. 24:12.663 --> 24:14.003 [SPEAKER_02]: We haven't even started the questions. 24:14.043 --> 24:16.344 [SPEAKER_01]: Give me a buckling continue. 24:16.984 --> 24:19.765 [SPEAKER_02]: This is what's great about Jenny and I. I go completely road. 24:19.965 --> 24:20.505 [SPEAKER_02]: But I love it. 24:20.725 --> 24:22.566 [SPEAKER_02]: What are we both at ADHD really? 24:22.586 --> 24:23.186 [SPEAKER_01]: Not at all. 24:23.286 --> 24:24.206 [SPEAKER_01]: Totally fine. 24:25.947 --> 24:28.547 [SPEAKER_01]: Just got away from behavior modification. 24:28.607 --> 24:30.348 [SPEAKER_01]: And they deal with some, you know, 24:35.399 --> 24:47.404 [SPEAKER_01]: And they've gotten away from it and their whole news item was all about, you know, basically after 30 years, like we're changing the way we've been doing this for a while, but now we're really announcing that. 24:47.485 --> 24:54.088 [SPEAKER_01]: We're leaning in to changing the way we're working with our population. 24:54.308 --> 24:54.368 [SPEAKER_01]: And 24:55.792 --> 25:12.481 [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't think like yeah and I and I'll say this like because I've said this also when I've had an interventionist or two on my podcast and I'm also going to be having some really good license credential transports I recognized early in my career when I would hear of the 25:13.061 --> 25:17.043 [SPEAKER_02]: a snatch and grab in the middle of the night with kids to go to treatment or wilderness. 25:17.383 --> 25:18.984 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, ooh, that doesn't sit well with me. 25:19.584 --> 25:20.225 [SPEAKER_02]: And it doesn't. 25:20.265 --> 25:35.352 [SPEAKER_02]: And when I mean by snatch and grab is there is an approach with that some transport shoes where they literally, which I think is the most traumatizing thing, they will come to your child in the middle of the night and just awaken them in their the sleep and kind of kidnap them into treatment. 25:35.472 --> 25:35.552 [SPEAKER_02]: And 25:36.132 --> 25:40.993 [SPEAKER_02]: Listen, you're never going to have a kid or adult, you know, willing to do this, right? 25:41.353 --> 25:44.214 [SPEAKER_02]: But there's also a humane way of doing this. 25:44.474 --> 25:47.875 [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like it's evolved and changed so much. 25:48.135 --> 25:56.397 [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like my role in the work I do and thank God for the career I've had, but also 25:56.877 --> 26:00.918 [SPEAKER_02]: Because of me, and I talk about this on episode, personally, struggled with my

depression. 26:00.938 --> 26:04.679 [SPEAKER_02]: I have had to, you know, I've been in a cycle. 26:04.879 --> 26:08.020 [SPEAKER_02]: I have, you know, been, you know, 10, 13 in my career. 26:08.160 --> 26:13.762 [SPEAKER_02]: I've, all this stuff has happened and this horrible and tragic as it's been at times and really just bad. 26:13.942 --> 26:16.842 [SPEAKER_02]: I've also been able to look in the mirror and say, no, this is good. 26:16.943 --> 26:24.685 [SPEAKER_02]: Because now I get to walk in the shoes of this of a kid who might say, Mom, if you send me, I'm gonna kill myself and they put them in this hole. 26:26.145 --> 26:30.948 [SPEAKER_02]: those holes are appropriate when, you know, you really do have a child's hurting themselves or wanting to hurt somebody else. 26:31.409 --> 26:45.598 [SPEAKER_02]: But if not, those experiences can be really traumatic, and it really, it makes it even harder for the kid to accept the peanut butter on the pill or to really buy into the treatment because they've already been traumatized. 26:45.798 --> 26:52.023 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I can only imagine if somebody pulled me out of my sleep to bring me somewhere as a kid or as an adult, 26:52.723 --> 26:56.586 [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to take more than it's going to take a real long time for me to trust anybody. 26:56.926 --> 26:57.246 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 26:57.366 --> 27:01.910 [SPEAKER_01]: And I go back to having, I totally agree with what you're saying. 27:01.950 --> 27:07.214 [SPEAKER_02]: And I also feel like if the transport, I'm going to say this, for a transport and interventionist that does that do your job. 27:07.454 --> 27:09.455 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I feel like it's the lazy approach. 27:09.776 --> 27:10.716 [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean? 27:10.916 --> 27:15.460 [SPEAKER_01]: There was a time where the conversations couldn't be had. 27:15.560 --> 27:17.942 [SPEAKER_01]: The parents weren't willing to have the conversation. 27:17.982 --> 27:18.182 [SPEAKER_02]: Great. 27:18.242 --> 27:19.823 [SPEAKER_02]: Jenny, I'm going to go with the first question. 27:21.464 --> 27:31.048 [SPEAKER_02]: I guess going on what we were talking about before, you know, with the treatment landscape being so overwhelming, you know, how can families begin to narrow down the right level of care. 27:31.468 --> 27:40.712 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like, what are the biggest mistakes families make that you know of and just, you know, if they are not working with a profession. 27:40.732 --> 27:44.574 [SPEAKER_02]: If they're working with a provider or not, like, what are, you know, how can they really. 27:52.376 --> 28:20.911 [SPEAKER_01]: being afraid to ask the questions of the providers that they're speaking to that they're yes heart makes them feel uncomfortable with right we're really bad as a culture is a country internationally of asking the tough questions so what are the tough questions families are technically afraid to ask I know money's a big thing but what is the first question that every family wants to know is how much does this cost right that that's what they search on the 28:22.796 --> 28:37.802 [SPEAKER_01]: And so if you're not going to put that on your website, then you better have a pretty good explanation that's going to drive people to pick up a fountain call you, but right about what the what's the thing that they're most afraid of, I think. 28:47.875 --> 28:52.597 [SPEAKER_01]: because that is so subjective, this is mental health, it's not right. 28:52.858 --> 28:54.798 [SPEAKER_01]: There is no clear answer to that. 28:55.039 --> 28:58.480 [SPEAKER_01]: And if someone of provider says, well, we'll do this. 28:58.560 --> 28:59.121 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll do this. 28:59.181 --> 29:00.341 [SPEAKER_01]: And then this will happen. 29:00.361 --> 29:01.642 [SPEAKER_01]: All right. 29:04.143 --> 29:07.725 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd run, not walk away from that fighter. 29:08.485 --> 29:08.825 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 29:09.126 --> 29:10.526 [SPEAKER_02]: And I want to just, you know, 29:13.502 --> 29:15.964 [SPEAKER_02]: And again, I use this as an analogy all the time. 29:16.324 --> 29:17.945 [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't mean to, but it's the truth. 29:17.965 --> 29:23.669 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I was just saying this before, but the family member who is going through cancer treatment. 29:23.949 --> 29:29.073 [SPEAKER_02]: And the thing with cancer, which is a doozy, is you'll never get upfront. 29:29.833 --> 29:31.674 [SPEAKER_02]: This is gonna happen in this treatment. 29:32.135 --> 29:34.756 [SPEAKER_02]: And then on this state, they're gonna be better with this. 29:34.816 --> 29:37.778 [SPEAKER_02]: They're gonna go from phase three, I mean, stage three to stage one. 29:38.179 --> 29:40.120 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it depends on every doctor's visit. 29:44.882 --> 29:50.484 [SPEAKER_02]: takes to the treatment, whether it's chemo antibodies, you name it, and we have to do these check-ins, right? 29:52.005 --> 29:54.865 [SPEAKER_02]: And nobody's ever kind of fixed, right? 29:55.065 --> 30:04.468 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's kind of the same when we are talking about treatment, and I stress this, the 30-day model, again, was really designed by the military years ago, I think that's what I read. 30:04.548 --> 30:06.048 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, because that was the time 30:11.550 --> 30:15.912 [SPEAKER_02]: Nothing really says 28 days is the the track be all end all. 30:16.393 --> 30:30.480 [SPEAKER_02]: Everybody is different and and so much so that you know when I went to treatment the second time after doing only 30 days the first time, I remember looking to my mom going how long do I need to stay and she goes, how long's a piece of string and I was like, what that's a horrible answer, but it was the truth. 30:31.020 --> 30:39.285 [SPEAKER_02]: It depended on how my mother was going to show up how I was going to show up and everybody's different first time for the outcome for. 30:39.905 --> 30:43.972

[SPEAKER_01]: for long-term recovery, show up as if you're sober for a year. 30:44.643 --> 30:46.144 [SPEAKER_01]: then you have a much more shot. 30:46.665 --> 30:47.285 [SPEAKER_02]: So, right. 30:47.566 --> 31:10.567 [SPEAKER_02]: Or, and we're talking about with mental health too, you know, and I say this is a responsible treatment facility, a therapeutic consultant, provider will educate the families and say, please don't dump your money all into this first phase of treatment because we're going to be looking at treatment through the first year, meaning, and what I mean, my treatment is if your kid or somebody needs to go to residential treatment, 31:10.947 --> 31:14.328 [SPEAKER_02]: then we're looking at what aftercare looks like, which is really important. 31:14.588 --> 31:17.570 [SPEAKER_02]: We're looking at their therapy, we're looking at your treatment. 31:18.070 --> 31:28.954 [SPEAKER_02]: And this isn't a fixed, this is kind of, you know, years later, I have relapses with my depression, but I, all the years of treatment and things that I have learned is, 31:29.674 --> 31:33.575 [SPEAKER_02]: now I know I have this toolbox when things kind of pop up for me what to do. 31:34.195 --> 31:46.538 [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, these kids, these adults, anybody who we're looking for, even our parents, who are designed the way they are, they didn't just, they didn't decide who they were like overnight. 31:46.578 --> 31:49.739 [SPEAKER_02]: We can't expect their kids to, you know, change overnight. 31:50.119 --> 31:55.560 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, this is, you know, if you think about it, when you have to go learn a new language, that doesn't take 30 days, 31:56.500 --> 32:05.424 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, when I was with families, I'd say I don't know how old you are parents, but it took you 45, 55 years to get to this point. 32:05.464 --> 32:08.386 [SPEAKER_01]: Your kid is going to shift gears at heck of a lot faster. 32:08.886 --> 32:10.887 [SPEAKER_01]: You can be anywhere on your podcast. 32:11.395 --> 32:12.036 [SPEAKER_02]: You can swear. 32:12.417 --> 32:13.798 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, thanks. 32:13.838 --> 32:14.459 [SPEAKER_01]: Be careful. 32:14.479 --> 32:15.320 [SPEAKER_02]: We go for it. 32:15.941 --> 32:17.283 [SPEAKER_02]: You can say anything. 32:17.964 --> 32:18.765 [SPEAKER_02]: I want to censor you. 32:18.865 --> 32:19.566 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 32:19.986 --> 32:23.691 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but the young person's gonna always change faster. 32:23.731 --> 32:27.416 [SPEAKER_01]: They just don't have those embedded struggles. 32:28.306 --> 32:42.334 [SPEAKER_02]: And they will also, they'll also, I'm getting so excited talking to Jenny, I'm like, we could do this all day, they will also change faster if the family is invested and doing work as well. 32:42.434 --> 32:52.340 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think I think the biggest struggle I know I've had when I've worked for adolescent and young adult programs, it's not per se having the kids change and evolve. 32:52.480 --> 32:57.543 [SPEAKER_02]: It's really getting the families to learn the new messaging and to get the help. 32:58.083 --> 32:58.663 [SPEAKER_02]: they need. 32:58.863 --> 33:08.887 [SPEAKER_02]: And I can't stress this enough if if for any parent out there, especially for talking about kids, even a wife, a husband, a loved one. 33:08.947 --> 33:15.750 [SPEAKER_02]: If you are putting your love one in treatment and thinking, we're going to just drop them off and this is, we're going to fix them and they're going to be good. 33:16.490 --> 33:18.031 [SPEAKER_02]: You're sorely mistaken. 33:18.051 --> 33:20.632 [SPEAKER_02]: This is, it won't work this way. 33:20.652 --> 33:21.372 [SPEAKER_02]: It just doesn't. 33:25.425 --> 33:31.931 [SPEAKER_01]: at least in the world that I'm operating in and maybe that's why I'm working in this field. 33:32.672 --> 33:32.972 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 33:33.493 --> 33:40.980 [SPEAKER_01]: I gravitate towards the providers that are going to be transparent that are going to look at the whole system. 33:41.747 --> 33:57.853 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the amount of workshops that are out there for families, for individuals, for like family therapy vacation, there was like an article a year or so ago in the Wall Street Journal, you know, families are spending money doing family therapy vacation. 33:57.873 --> 34:08.597 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, it's a thing that finally the system as a whole, we've come to terms with, we're not going to send the kit, we're not going to pick the kit up in the middle of the night, send the 34:11.695 --> 34:23.045 [SPEAKER_01]: And right, and that's what everyone seems to be kind of doing now, much more so than even seven years ago, right, I mean, I'm not doing that work is like run away. 34:27.565 --> 34:44.592 [SPEAKER_02]: And if you're working with with all due respect if you're working with case management or you're working with an interventionist or a therapeutic consultant in the upcoming episodes, I'm going to tell you the difference between educational consultant and what a therapeutic consultant is, but if you're working with any of these providers and they're not. 34:45.212 --> 34:48.053 [SPEAKER_02]: holding you to getting and doing your own treatment. 34:48.113 --> 34:49.613 [SPEAKER_02]: You are working with a wrong person. 34:50.914 --> 34:51.814 [SPEAKER_02]: It is uncomfortable. 34:51.934 --> 34:52.714 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not fun. 34:52.854 --> 35:02.917 [SPEAKER_02]: But if you're asking your child and loved one to do this, you can't ask your kids to change any valves and without, you know, everybody needs to work on themselves. 35:03.017 --> 35:03.737 [SPEAKER_02]: And guess what? 35:04.117 --> 35:07.558 [SPEAKER_02]: All that will happen is you all will become a better version of yourself. 35:07.758 --> 35:17.322 [SPEAKER_01]: things get uncomfortable, a lot of families will hit the road and they use these insurance driven short-term residential programs is

really a respite. 35:18.237 --> 35:22.778 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, from their kiddo and not doing any of the work. 35:22.978 --> 35:26.819 [SPEAKER_02]: Not every parent and I will say the cool thing about treatment today is back in the day. 35:26.899 --> 35:28.439 [SPEAKER_02]: All we had was alan on today. 35:28.479 --> 35:30.220 [SPEAKER_02]: There's so many more options. 35:31.040 --> 35:36.901 [SPEAKER_02]: There's so many parent support groups where I even know a slew and I need to put this on my show notes. 35:36.941 --> 35:43.463 [SPEAKER_02]: A slew of treatment centers where you don't have to have a loved one in their treatment to be a part of the zoom parent support. 35:43.503 --> 35:44.783 [SPEAKER_02]: So you don't feel alone. 35:45.443 --> 36:01.615 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and and I have to ask if you are so resistant to that, what's there's a problem, what's going on, I've had those conversations because I only now talk to friends and family. 36:02.302 --> 36:17.058 [SPEAKER_01]: And unfortunately, when a friend calls, you know, that's, you know, way too much, you're like, hey, uh, I remember when you didn't say to my friends today, I go remember in college, my voice was so much higher. 36:17.719 --> 36:19.561 [SPEAKER_02]: Now it's like this, like so deep. 36:20.482 --> 36:42.219 [SPEAKER_02]: Because it's been like, I have and I'll say this a lot of times I'll be on the phone with families where I'm fighting for their kids survival more than they are and that's when I have to get off the phone if I have to like literally have my veins popping out of my neck to tell you this isn't the right program where you all need to be partaking in this that me other and you're not doing it like I got to go. 36:42.619 --> 36:43.260 [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean? 36:43.480 --> 36:52.069 [SPEAKER_02]: You called me for resources and recommendations, but you're literally I say go left and you're going right and I'm giving you all of this watching. 36:52.109 --> 36:52.770 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm hungry. 36:52.930 --> 36:57.115 [SPEAKER_01]: And then the measure of success, how a family's measure for success. 36:57.175 --> 37:01.760 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, there's hopefully outcomes data with whatever treatment provider a family's using. 37:01.820 --> 37:03.442 [SPEAKER_01]: That's always a better scenario. 37:04.142 --> 37:17.024 [SPEAKER_01]: But it took us to me when I was consulting was that the family system would struggle and get through it without ever thinking that I was not part of it. 37:17.184 --> 37:23.125 [SPEAKER_01]: And there are professionals who want to be remembered for all of eternity and I was not one of them. 37:23.185 --> 37:31.367 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, if I was doing my job right, we're gonna set you on this path and you all are going to continue to have the highs 37:34.696 --> 37:41.422 [SPEAKER_01]: And I will, you, you will have that and you may or may not remember that six. 37:41.462 --> 37:44.424 [SPEAKER_02]: No, which is so great. 37:44.585 --> 37:47.587 [SPEAKER_02]: And, and, and, and I respect you so much. 37:47.627 --> 37:51.370 [SPEAKER_01]: Like to plug my website, like that's what I want all kinds of therapy to be. 37:51.450 --> 37:57.375 [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to be a safe place to land to demystify this crazy universe. 37:57.535 --> 38:00.258 [SPEAKER_01]: I see families coming back time and again. 38:01.927 --> 38:28.813 [SPEAKER_01]: And to do research, what's amazing to me is like they'll do research and the average length of stay on a page is way longer than a typical website and then they don't always click into that provider's website because they're getting a ton of information and then they're continuing to gather data whether they jump on Reddit to find something negative or they go on another web directory to find different reviews. 38:29.233 --> 38:44.743 [SPEAKER_01]: Like sometimes it's just a confirmation bias of that professional referred me to this website to a provider and I'm just gathering all the data that I can really are making these decisions is incredibly hard. 38:45.104 --> 38:45.404 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 38:45.604 --> 38:45.904 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 38:46.264 --> 38:47.925 [SPEAKER_02]: And I say two things to parents. 38:47.945 --> 38:56.228 [SPEAKER_02]: I try to, if you're going to hit the web, even though I tell you maybe just hold on for a second, but if you're going to hit the web, just I'm going to make it easy for you. 38:56.288 --> 38:57.609 [SPEAKER_02]: Just go to all kinds of therapy. 38:57.949 --> 38:58.329 [SPEAKER_02]: That's it. 38:59.009 --> 39:10.414 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I also say, if you read bad reviews about a program, typically with what dealing with adolescents or young adults, nine times out of ten, those bad reviews are from kids in treatment. 39:10.914 --> 39:12.535 [SPEAKER_02]: been able now to access a computer. 39:13.116 --> 39:15.437 [SPEAKER_02]: I know this because we saw it every day. 39:15.457 --> 39:17.939 [SPEAKER_02]: It was rare to get a parent. 39:18.739 --> 39:20.420 [SPEAKER_02]: And yes, there are some bad reviews by parents. 39:20.440 --> 39:25.824 [SPEAKER_01]: One of my, one of my partners said to me, we had a one, even no, I don't even know. 39:26.264 --> 39:27.105 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know. 39:27.185 --> 39:28.345 [SPEAKER_01]: I got balloons on this. 39:28.445 --> 39:29.786 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a party. 39:29.946 --> 39:30.687 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a party. 39:31.007 --> 39:32.308 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a party and connect call. 39:34.129 --> 39:44.913 [SPEAKER_01]: I, one of my providers told me it was a young adult, you know, they had access to the internet and they were live, Google reviewing the program while in treatment. 39:45.574 --> 39:49.875 [SPEAKER_01]: It was, and the program to their credit was like, keep doing it. 39:50.176 --> 39:51.076 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. 39:51.116 --> 39:53.197 [SPEAKER_01]: This is part of your process. 39:53.870 --> 39:55.531 [SPEAKER_02]: I am tuning

in from the UK. 39:55.891 --> 40:02.553 [SPEAKER_02]: Since why we have a British phone now behind me instead of the American phone for viewers who are questioning the decal. 40:03.013 --> 40:03.853 [SPEAKER_02]: So I just want to say that. 40:04.213 --> 40:09.755 [SPEAKER_01]: When I first started this work, I was so much more prescriptive when I was consulting. 40:09.775 --> 40:11.335 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, we gotta go from here here. 40:11.375 --> 40:15.757 [SPEAKER_01]: We gotta talk to the young person would come in and mean, I was really transparent. 40:15.777 --> 40:17.577 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you're here because something's not working. 40:17.617 --> 40:18.437 [SPEAKER_01]: What's not working? 40:19.438 --> 40:19.778 [SPEAKER_01]: And... 40:20.887 --> 40:23.829 [SPEAKER_01]: If this isn't going to change, then things need to change. 40:23.869 --> 40:26.151 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was helping a family through that process. 40:26.511 --> 40:39.501 [SPEAKER_01]: I think one of the problems with the internet and the world post-COVID is there is so much information that families can glean digitally that they think they're all experts. 40:41.222 --> 40:42.963 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's hard. 40:43.143 --> 40:46.386 [SPEAKER_01]: Life is incredibly, so much more complex. 40:47.981 --> 40:59.626 [SPEAKER_02]: And that goes into the next question beautifully in that what separates high quality treatment versus a treatment program that has the dollars to really market themselves to be something there may be not. 41:00.606 --> 41:04.988 [SPEAKER_02]: I know the first thing that has driven me crazy is over the years you might 41:05.848 --> 41:10.572 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll even Google a treatment center, right? 41:11.012 --> 41:18.817 [SPEAKER_02]: And the first line where it says title of the treatment center, I'll click it for the contact number and that 800 number all call. 41:19.518 --> 41:20.899 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's not that program. 41:21.219 --> 41:22.420 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a different program. 41:22.560 --> 41:23.221 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, what? 41:24.060 --> 41:27.664 [SPEAKER_02]: And I know to make the difference, but for a lot of families, they don't. 41:28.285 --> 41:35.172 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I guess how does one decipher between good marketing and what is actually good, you know? 41:35.472 --> 41:44.362 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I have had partners on my website that are no longer partners and will buy ads above. 41:44.746 --> 41:45.767 [SPEAKER_01]: all kinds of therapy. 41:45.787 --> 41:54.271 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you do a Google search for all kinds of therapy, you'll see treatment providers that might not be partnered with my website, but they know that there's no very healthy. 41:54.551 --> 41:56.012 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, very healthy individuals. 41:56.032 --> 41:57.513 [SPEAKER_02]: That's what they're doing during the day. 41:57.613 --> 41:58.113 [SPEAKER_02]: There you go. 41:58.533 --> 42:03.176 [SPEAKER_01]: And, and, you know,

Google to their credit, you'll take the dollar. 42:04.176 --> 42:11.640 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, how do you know if it's a good treatment center, you have to continue to ask and ask why they're, I mean, 42:12.917 --> 42:27.617 [SPEAKER_01]: This goes back to that other question of like ask the hard questions because it is a muscle that families and crisis need to get used to asking like why why does your treatment program always come up when I because. 42:28.044 --> 42:30.565 [SPEAKER_01]: the algorithm is feeding them the information right. 42:31.026 --> 42:37.369 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, water, water, water, like two or three good hard questions, and we're going to put this in the show. 42:37.389 --> 42:45.434 [SPEAKER_02]: Now it's what are two or three good or two questions that families right out the gate should ask to decipher between good treatment and good marketing. 42:46.415 --> 42:47.095 [SPEAKER_01]: Good treatment. 42:47.195 --> 42:51.758 [SPEAKER_01]: No pressure and no, I think I think the staffing ratio. 42:52.479 --> 43:06.997 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, this is kind of in tandem with the staffing ratio is how long do you train your staff before they're in front of students that there is widely. 43:09.400 --> 43:10.021 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's like. 43:11.968 --> 43:16.011 [SPEAKER_01]: because most marketers or admissions people don't know the answer to that. 43:16.171 --> 43:24.457 [SPEAKER_02]: I want to get through a couple more of these questions and I will definitely be having Jenny Wilder on, back on, can I call? 43:25.157 --> 43:25.918 [SPEAKER_02]: She is a big reason. 43:26.018 --> 43:31.321 [SPEAKER_02]: Also, you are a big reason why I'm doing this podcast because you know, the few times I did talk to Jenny about this, she's like, 43:35.084 --> 43:35.825 [SPEAKER_01]: And then do it. 43:35.845 --> 43:36.165 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 43:36.365 --> 43:40.648 [SPEAKER_02]: And there's a lot of podcasts in our industry and no disrespect to anybody else doing it Go after it. 43:40.688 --> 43:46.011 [SPEAKER_02]: But a lot of times it's a lot of people just wanting to hear their own voice and not really interviewing people or the right. 43:46.291 --> 43:50.474 [SPEAKER_02]: And I wanted to just again be this free kind of, maybe we need you to subscribe. 43:50.614 --> 43:52.175 [SPEAKER_02]: But I wanted you to be a resource. 43:52.715 --> 43:58.759 [SPEAKER_02]: I wanted this to be a resource for families and to really deal with topics that nobody was really talking about. 44:00.060 --> 44:02.222 [SPEAKER_02]: I guess my next question would be like, 44:02.982 --> 44:08.786 [SPEAKER_02]: I will say this time in time again, parents often feel guilty, ashamed, or like they failed. 44:09.326 --> 44:10.747 [SPEAKER_02]: What do you tell parents? 44:10.767 --> 44:12.588 [SPEAKER_02]: Because I get it all day long. 44:12.608 --> 44:15.030 [SPEAKER_02]: Especially I get a mom first on the phone. 44:15.090 --> 44:22.855 [SPEAKER_02]: She is crying to me

about, you know, my kid, beautiful and smart and like we did this and we did that and we put him in this school. 44:23.275 --> 44:25.597 [SPEAKER_02]: And there's just so, and a lot of times there's 44:27.938 --> 44:42.004 [SPEAKER_02]: in your child and we're going to go with children as well as adults, getting treatment because that it is keeping you from actually doing it, and or you think this is a bad or sad thing to happen. 44:42.344 --> 44:51.908 [SPEAKER_02]: I personally think anytime we can intervene on anyone with their mental health to make them and your family better is an opportunity. 44:52.568 --> 44:53.469 [SPEAKER_02]: to become better. 44:53.709 --> 44:55.070 [SPEAKER_02]: It is not a sad or bad thing. 44:55.211 --> 44:57.653 [SPEAKER_02]: I wish I was intervened on at 16. 44:57.793 --> 45:10.906 [SPEAKER_02]: We got to be saved me years of struggle, you know, and saved a lot of money, you know, and so what do you say when you're talking to a family and their riddled with shame and guilt about this that they're making these calls? 45:11.366 --> 45:15.470 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the piece is that they're not alone. 45:16.840 --> 45:35.125 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that is the lead story that keeps, we have so much shame and when you talk to someone who is an adult who has done their work, whether it's at onsite doing one of their intensives or whatever it is. 45:37.718 --> 45:44.900 [SPEAKER_01]: as a young person to adult and it's very possible a young person could end up in treatment again later in life. 45:44.980 --> 45:50.121 [SPEAKER_01]: They're doing the work and they're able to put their shit on the table and talk about it. 45:50.361 --> 46:01.663 [SPEAKER_01]: My favorite thing was to hear how many young people would get into the amount of colleges that they would get into from a treatment program that they graduated from in high school. 46:02.234 --> 46:18.318 [SPEAKER_01]: and quite honestly get a bunch of money too, because they're gonna write the essay that's actually truly from the heart and their hardest thing is that they're looking for other people to connect to our authentic. 46:18.558 --> 46:24.659 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's why I love the collegiate recovery programs and the high school recovery programs. 46:24.679 --> 46:27.440 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I think those places are, 46:28.080 --> 46:34.846 [SPEAKER_01]: magical in terms of helping young people kind of move along and truly be authentic and honest. 46:35.006 --> 46:40.210 [SPEAKER_02]: And we're going to talk about that more on another episode for people that don't know. 46:40.710 --> 46:50.197 [SPEAKER_02]: And I say this because when I worked at a young adults or adolescent program typically if we had a young person leaving college to come to treatment, ideally what we would be doing is 46:51.258 --> 47:04.084 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I remember when they were just starting out, but now every state has at least one or two colleges or universities and really big schools from, you know, all the schools all have it, like Danny Conrad, they'll start the one and bolder. 47:04.124 --> 47:11.808 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like right a recovery campus on campus is kind of like this underbelly on the DL kind of support. 47:12.408 --> 47:21.799 [SPEAKER_02]: four kids who don't are not using substances or, you know, not wanting to party or needing help with their mental health on campus. 47:21.939 --> 47:23.441 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's so important. 47:23.541 --> 47:25.803 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I even read something somewhere and I could be wrong. 47:25.823 --> 47:27.685 [SPEAKER_02]: And if I am wrong, someone needs to. 47:28.226 --> 47:53.108 [SPEAKER_02]: tell me I was wrong, but I read some, no, I'm not going to say names because that's their anonymity, but a big football coach from a really big, big, big, big SCC school, actually donated a ton of money to that school for just having a sober fraternity because their loved ones were getting sober and he wanted a place for these kids and it is, I think it's awesome and a lot of parents don't know about. 47:53.608 --> 48:18.460 [SPEAKER_01]: I think was the first one and they literally wrote the book on it and handed it to any university that wants Yes, to start another one and right and the collegiate and the high school recovery program Like they're they're going to open one here in Maine way up in the top of the state like where the potatoes happen and and it's a it's a it's a part of the state that needs it and it's so powerful 48:19.081 --> 48:21.963 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, here we only have 1.4 million people in this whole state. 48:21.983 --> 48:27.266 [SPEAKER_01]: So the fact that we're going to have a high school recovery program is just amazing to me. 48:27.446 --> 48:39.694 [SPEAKER_02]: It's it's so important and and I'll say this and I've said this on other episodes with the shame and the guilt, a big reason, you know, I am such an advocate for kids and children. 48:39.714 --> 48:44.918 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's not just because I do this professionally, but because personally I have struggled 48:48.660 --> 48:51.426 [SPEAKER_02]: and I know what it's like to have suicidal ideation. 48:51.626 --> 48:54.932 [SPEAKER_02]: I know it's what it's like to feel like there's no hope. 48:55.473 --> 49:00.702 [SPEAKER_02]: And so when I see especially with the kids out there who have unfortunately 49:02.086 --> 49:03.607 [SPEAKER_02]: taking their lives, right? 49:03.707 --> 49:12.233 [SPEAKER_02]: Because they felt like there was no where else to go and then to see in their obituaries or to see it mentioned that they suddenly passed. 49:12.974 --> 49:15.015 [SPEAKER_02]: And we are not saying what it is. 49:15.676 --> 49:18.798 [SPEAKER_02]: It we're doing everybody a disservice, including your child. 49:18.998 --> 49:25.142 [SPEAKER_02]: Because for them to die in vain in that way, in that we could help other kids, you know what I mean? 49:25.182 -->

49:26.884 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why I went prune-stied. 49:26.904 --> 49:28.725 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, why are we not saying? 49:28.805 --> 49:36.068 [SPEAKER_02]: Why are we not saying it what it is, you know, and when you, and when you also share your story, it gives people permission to share theirs. 49:36.628 --> 49:39.930 [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's it's it's a powerful powerful piece. 49:39.990 --> 49:40.390 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think. 49:41.448 --> 50:08.840 [SPEAKER_02]: It, as a parent, you're not a bad parent that any of this is happening, where I kind of question parenting is when you have all this information and you choose not to do anything with it or you're so afraid of what your neighbors are going to think that you don't do anything that's where that's a disservice, I think to you and your family, we are wrapping at a time, Jenny, but I always like to end this show with this last question. 50:09.760 --> 50:10.381 [SPEAKER_02]: no pressure. 50:12.682 --> 50:20.688 [SPEAKER_02]: If you were on the phone with a family today, in the work that you do today, with all kinds of therapy or whatever thing, and you're just talking to a friend, let's say. 50:21.088 --> 50:30.134 [SPEAKER_02]: And you've talked to them a lot on the phone, but there are any parting words that you really want them to hear more than anything else when they get off that phone call. 50:30.174 --> 50:30.715 [SPEAKER_02]: What would it be? 50:37.479 --> 50:42.061 [SPEAKER_01]: Where do you want your child young person to be in 20 years? 50:43.041 --> 50:43.321 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 50:45.162 --> 50:47.663 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't want that kid in the basement and or... 50:47.883 --> 50:48.243 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 50:49.503 --> 50:50.964 [SPEAKER_01]: And or not alive. 50:52.860 --> 50:57.243 [SPEAKER_02]: And we want them living their life, doing their journey. 50:57.443 --> 51:02.286 [SPEAKER_02]: I have a lot of parents who have their ideas of what their kids' lives should be. 51:03.007 --> 51:05.988 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's really also hurt their kids. 51:06.449 --> 51:08.530 [SPEAKER_02]: Is, you know, to get out of the way and let. 51:09.350 --> 51:11.332 [SPEAKER_02]: That's them just be happy and healthy, you know? 51:11.352 --> 51:16.935 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it's kind of asking a parent or friend to future trip a little bit. 51:17.442 --> 51:22.926 [SPEAKER_01]: And think about what that is in the future that they want and how are they going to help their kid of get there. 51:23.647 --> 51:28.370 [SPEAKER_01]: The same way we overthought the first food these kids ate. 51:29.451 --> 51:29.872 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 51:30.352 --> 51:30.672 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 51:31.132 --> 51:36.757 [SPEAKER_01]: We so try parents over think about stuff and then we 51:37.530 --> 51:46.078 [SPEAKER_01]: underthink what we can do to help sometimes or don't give ourselves permission to be uncomfortable with those same things. 51:46.178 --> 51:52.464 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like when your

child's learning to walk, cheering for them when they fall a little bit and get themselves up. 51:53.245 --> 51:58.130 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the piece that I hope for my friends who have young people who are struggling. 51:59.263 --> 52:12.907 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, or I often like to say to families where they're uncomfortable with their kids being uncomfortable, find out why that is that you can't have your child be uncomfortable, you know, it's so hard. 52:13.247 --> 52:15.008 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's so hard. 52:15.388 --> 52:16.948 [SPEAKER_02]: This also comes from someone. 52:16.988 --> 52:17.909 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm such a hypocrite. 52:17.989 --> 52:23.751 [SPEAKER_02]: I only have a dog and if I had to create train my dog, I'd be like, I couldn't handle it if they were crying. 52:23.851 --> 52:25.511 [SPEAKER_02]: I'd be like, no, you're uncomfortable. 52:25.551 --> 52:26.331 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm uncomfortable. 52:28.692 --> 52:29.532 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm right in there. 52:29.612 --> 52:31.593 [SPEAKER_02]: I would have been all right. 52:31.613 --> 52:32.494 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I can just thank you. 52:32.614 --> 52:34.075 [SPEAKER_02]: And I want to thank you. 52:34.415 --> 52:35.895 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just reminding everybody. 52:36.356 --> 52:37.296 [SPEAKER_02]: This is connect call. 52:37.316 --> 52:38.837 [SPEAKER_02]: This has been another amazing episode. 52:38.897 --> 52:41.918 [SPEAKER_02]: I think, please tune in to my show notes. 52:41.938 --> 52:43.939 [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to have all kinds of therapy on there. 52:43.959 --> 52:49.322 [SPEAKER_02]: And we will continue to show the website because I think it's such a valuable tool for families and people. 52:50.302 --> 52:54.864 [SPEAKER_02]: Also, subscribe, subscribe, subscribe, please don't forget to subscribe. 52:56.585 --> 53:01.070 [SPEAKER_02]: Please guys and this is another episode and tune in next week. 53:01.370 --> 53:02.191 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, thanks again. 53:02.832 --> 53:03.352 [SPEAKER_02]: Bye, Jenny. 53:03.733 --> 53:03.953 [SPEAKER_02]: Bye 53:06.183 --> 53:08.464 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for tuning into this episode of Connect Call. 53:08.904 --> 53:19.029 [SPEAKER_02]: As we conclude, remember that insights shared are intended for informational and educational purposes only and should not substitute professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 53:19.449 --> 53:27.633 [SPEAKER_02]: We strongly recommend consulting a qualified medical, health professional, or health care provider for personalized advice, tailored to your unique needs. 53:28.133 --> 53:31.534 [SPEAKER_02]: Your mental health journey is important and having the right support is essential. 53:32.095 --> 53:40.678 [SPEAKER_02]: If you're experiencing a mental health crisis or require immediate assistance, please reach out to a mental health provider or emergency services in your area. 53:41.098 --> 53:45.280 [SPEAKER_02]: We're grateful to have you as part of our community and your well-being remains our priority. 53:45.700 --> 53:51.342 [SPEAKER_02]: So follow us on social media to stay connected and be sure to catch one of our episodes on our YouTube channel. 53:51.822 --> 53:53.863 [SPEAKER_02]: We're here to support you every step of the way.