התמלול המלא של S2E25: No Creative, No Data: Why Your Marketing Metrics Are Lying to You

on the visual and creative side. 00:02:30.960 --> 00:02:36.879 But, you know, I think just as I talk to more and more folks, like that, that is broadening. 00:02:37.039 --> 00:02:39.520 And those things are kind of merging in some ways too. 00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:47.039 Because creative and sort of the whole visual application of a brand can just kind of weave its way into so many parts of the business. 00:02:47.280 --> 00:02:50.800 So I think that's probably the best descriptor, but we're going to get into it. 00:02:50.879 --> 00:02:54.000 We're going to dive deep, I'm sure, and I can elaborate further on that. 00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:55.759 But I'm excited to be here with you. 00:02:56.080 --> 00:02:56.879 Awesome. 00:02:57.199 --> 00:03:07.360 Tell us a little bit about your background too, because I feel like your background is pretty unique on how you got here and how you're kind of obsessed with what's happening in the space right now. 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:11.840 So just give us a little bit about where you came from and how you're getting here. 00:03:12.319 --> 00:03:19.120 Yeah, I think, you know, the more people I talk to, though, the more people I realize they all have unconventional backgrounds. 00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:24.240 I would think mine is mine is crazy because I originally started in sports management. 00:03:24.319 --> 00:03:25.439 I started working in sports. 00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:26.080 I worked for the St. 00:03:26.159 --> 00:03:27.520 Louis Cardinals for a while. 00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:33.919 Then I got into sales and kind of wallowed around in some really like bad sales jobs. 00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:36.879 And this is before I knew anything about SaaS. 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:44.319 Like one of my first sales jobs was cold calling selling digital, well, ad space in the yellow pages for ATT. 00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:46.639 Those are the best kinds of sellers. 00:03:47.199 --> 00:03:51.439 You know, like that was that was that was one. 00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:56.400 And then it was another one, and there was another one that's like, okay, I think this is probably not where I should be. 00:03:56.639 --> 00:04:08.879 So anyway, landed in marketing, spent about 11, 12, maybe 13 years in marketing, specifically in SaaS tech startups, growing within the marketing function. 00:04:09.039 --> 00:04:11.039 So really just starting from nothing. 00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:13.599 I knew nothing about marketing other than this is really cool. 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:28.000 And I understood social media, which was a lot at the time to get you in marketing, and then just became so fascinated with all the different components of marketing that I just kind of kept jumping and taking on more responsibility, bigger titles, figuring out as I go. 00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:31.199 A lot of the time I knew nothing what I was doing, but I was just so curious. 00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:33.759 Curiosity is one of my superpowers, I would say. 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:42.720 And I just allowed that to guide me and at the same time, like really be open to kind of different things along the way. 00:04:42.879 --> 00:04:52.560 And I think really what changed is when AI presented itself like from an accessibility standpoint in 22, 23, I was all in. 00:04:52.639 --> 00:05:00.879 I was all in because it was not only the LLM side of it that I was fascinated with, along with everybody else, but I have a photography background. 00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:03.519 I love sort of like the creative side of marketing. 00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:08.959 And I was already playing around with tools like Midjourney at that time, where it's AI image generation. 00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:18.959 And I just thought it was so fascinating that you could create these, you know, these images with trial and error at the time, of course, but from your desk. 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:21.920 You know, I was a photographer, had a lot of gear, I just had kids. 00:05:22.079 --> 00:05:24.399 I wasn't going out and shooting a lot of the things that I liked to shoot. 00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:25.920 I wasn't traveling as much. 00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:31.519 And so that opened up, you know, initially this kind of like area of play and fun. 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:35.040 And I was in a marketing role at the time. 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:38.959 I was leading marketing for a Series A startup, who's the head of marketing. 00:05:39.199 --> 00:05:45.040 And I just connected a dot that really was the inflection point for where I am today. 00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:49.839 And that was, oh, I think, you know, I can create images that feel like our brand. 00:05:50.959 --> 00:05:52.639 And it's not stock photography. 00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:54.399 It's not me hiring a photographer, right? 00:05:54.480 --> 00:05:57.680 It's not me, you know, hiring an illustrator or this or that, the other. 00:05:57.839 --> 00:05:59.600 Like I think I can do this myself. 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:03.839 And that's what it's all about in the startup world, especially Series A, series B. 00:06:04.079 --> 00:06:07.439 You know, you just you if you can do it yourself, that's that's fantastic. 00:06:07.519 --> 00:06:09.199 And that's what I loved about that space. 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:18.959 And sure enough, I started incorporating, you know, both sides of that, you know, the LLM side, the creative side into our branding and our approach. 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:26.480 And that was really the the point in time where I was like, okay, there's there's something here that feels like I'm very connected to it. 00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:29.439 Like this is a once in kind of like a lifetime moment. 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:35.120 Took me back to like when dial up internet happened and I was a kid and I was sitting there like listening to the sound. 00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:37.360 You know, it was just but I'm an adult now. 00:06:37.439 --> 00:06:38.240 I can do something about it. 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:43.199 And

so it was just very cool, and uh it's it's guiding me where I'm at today and doing a lot of cool stuff. 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:45.839 So yeah, it's it's been a hell of a ride. 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:46.959 Amazing. 00:06:47.120 --> 00:06:47.680 I love that. 00:06:47.839 --> 00:07:08.319 I would say you are a true renaissance man, and I love that in this space, I do agree that the folks that are curious and the folks that have, I'll say, disparate but sort of interwoven skill sets, I think end up being like the triple threat in this industry because they're just didn't grow up in a very like linear path. 00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:12.160 They kind of like meandered around to where they got to now. 00:07:12.319 --> 00:07:27.120 And I feel like that makes it multifaceted and makes us better consultants when we go into different organizations because we have a disparate experience, various industries, and then you're able to kind of attack it from a different angle. 00:07:27.279 --> 00:07:27.360 Yeah. 00:07:27.519 --> 00:07:33.199 So I would call it pull from different pull from different things and connect dots that maybe other people aren't able to connect. 00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:51.120 And I think the curiosity part is is really like curiosity is definitely one of the durable competitive advantages, I think, right now, especially with with AI, because we're all kind of there, there's no like clear playbook on this stuff, right? 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:57.439 Like you can follow videos or creators or this and that and the other, but there are just so many little pockets and niches of this. 00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:03.759 And then applying it to your space, you know, there are just so many variants that that sort of fork off, right? 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:06.959 And so that's why it's so fascinating. 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:12.240 And couple that with the fact that this tech just like changes every week, every other week. 00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:23.600 I'm at a standpoint where it's like I I'll figure something out and I've got a great way to do it with the client, and then a new piece of tech comes or something unlocks, and that just changes the entire workflow. 00:08:23.759 --> 00:08:26.720 So I have to unwind it, rewind it, figure out a new way, right? 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:38.320 And so I think that that curiosity standpoint and the just the you know proactive like willingness to experiment and play without you know harshly judging yourself too, I think is also pretty key. 00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:38.960 Yes. 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:46.480 I was in Miami at a women in tech and AI yacht party, and I would say routines. 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:50.559 And when you guys listen to this, this might be old news and Claude had just came out. 00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:58.480 So the teacher was like, I was gonna show you how to go into like VS Studios and do this connector and add this code and all this stuff. 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:02.399 And they're like, they just announced routines and it just like changed the whole game. 00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:03.600 Yeah, it's done. 00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:04.080 Yeah. 00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:06.720 So she's like, I don't even have to teach you guys that. 00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:08.639 And that was like three days ago. 00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:12.000 So this is moving so, so fast. 00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:14.960 I would say I love following you. 00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:19.360 And I have some of my folks on LinkedIn that I just listen to. 00:09:19.519 --> 00:09:23.840 A lot of you guys put really good videos out there, I think, and talk about different tools. 00:09:23.919 --> 00:09:28.879 And I think then I just kind of do this, you know, Google or ask Claude, what is this tool? 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:29.519 What does it do? 00:09:29.679 --> 00:09:35.440 How does it impact like the RevUp, what our work is, and how do we integrate it in and all that stuff. 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:44.320 We are not experts in brand creative, I'll say, but we are the team that helps systematize all the assets to get the data and analytics. 00:09:44.559 --> 00:09:46.080 So I think that's really important. 00:09:47.039 --> 00:09:48.080 Absolutely. 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:51.840 So most people are talking about AI creative right now. 00:09:51.919 --> 00:09:58.080 And I feel like Pod Squad, if you're not talking about AI creative and you don't know what that means, listen up. 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:01.039 Obviously, you come from you know, design background. 00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:07.279 You said you love photography, you are in sales, so I feel like there's that like sales, demand, gen pipeline. 00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:15.519 But talk to me of how do you think sort of creative and tackling creative has changed more recently. 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:17.840 And I'll just give an example from my experience. 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:20.799 My first job out of college was at Condé Nest. 00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:28.320 I worked for The Bridal Group, I worked for Psy New House, Devil Wears Prada that came out when I was working there. 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:42.080 Like we used to spend millions and millions of dollars to ship the team, the photographers, the models, the sites, like to get these, you know, fall and spring collection creative shoots up there. 00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:50.080 I feel like this is changing the game, not only on like a PL and a time perspective, but so much. 00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:51.759 And you're really in the thick of it. 00:10:51.919 --> 00:11:01.120 So talk to me about, you know, your little sermon on what you think the game of creative has changed and how AI has impacted what that looks like. 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:01.519 Yeah. 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:04.480 I think the things we did don't you don't need to. 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:17.360 I I just I'm still fascinated by the fact that creative, the creative space was one of the first, you know, areas to really be massively affected by

AI. 00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:19.759 Yeah, I think that that was that was a shock. 00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:44.720 You know, I I think when I rewind to like what we thought AI was going to do, creative just is so, in a lot of ways amorphous or even ambiguous as to what exactly creativity is, and it means different things to different people, and it's such a specialized and unique sort of individualized skill and attribute, and it means, you know, it's just it takes many shapes and sizes. 00:11:44.879 --> 00:11:49.919 So I think the fact that that was one of the first things to be affected still blows my mind. 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:57.039 But obviously, like what that does with a lot of this stuff is it just democratizes it completely. 00:11:57.360 --> 00:12:12.159 I'm not saying that, you know, anybody that anybody can be, you know, become a creative director, an art director, or a designer now, but like there's you've probably, everybody listen to this has probably leveled up to some degree since AI has come out, right? 00:12:12.399 --> 00:12:14.000 And I think that's part of it. 00:12:14.159 --> 00:12:18.000 You know, it was it was one of those things, just like with coding, right? 00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:28.080 That was so specialized and you had had to have training and years of experience and more of a traditional and formal path, where now that that kind of goes out the door. 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:30.720 And so I think that's that's number one, right? 00:12:30.879 --> 00:12:37.120 Like me, just looking at me personally, I went through a marketing and tech path. 00:12:37.279 --> 00:12:38.639 I love the creative side. 00:12:38.799 --> 00:12:42.240 I loved to do the photography, the branding, and this and that and the other. 00:12:42.320 --> 00:12:54.559 But it was almost me being curious and excited about it and and proactively like trying to learn more about it selfishly and self-taught way, than going to school for it and, you know, kind of going down this whole path. 00:12:54.720 --> 00:13:02.240 So I think like that's fascinating because people like me or people that have really immersed themselves in a particular space can disrupt that. 00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:09.840 You know, like we can we can start to sort of lead those teams now just because of where the tech is going and how things are done. 00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:15.279 And so I think that's that's number one is sort of like the democratization, the disruption of the space. 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:29.360 But also like going back to that original story of how I got really enamored with it, it's just the fact that, you know, you can do so like creative and visuals are so much, right? 00:13:29.679 --> 00:13:32.320 Anything that you see is a visual. 00:13:32.480 --> 00:13:38.879 It has, you know, anything that you see in the wild has design attached to it in some capacity, some good, some bad, right? 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:41.360 But like it's everywhere. 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:48.000 And so, you know, I originally was really focused on, you know, a lot of people kind of go toward the photorealism. 00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:53.759 It's like, okay, we could create assets, but you know, how do we feel about people, you know, being generated with AI? 00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:56.159 And what's our take on that from a brand perspective? 00:13:56.320 --> 00:14:04.399 And I think when you really think about it, that's probably the most polarizing aspect of AI, you know, visual creation. 00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:12.799 The truth is, right, it it there's so many different styles and types of creative and visual aspects that that come into play, right? 00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:20.720 This could, these could be icons, these could be animations, these could be illustrations, these could be, you know, shots that aren't that don't have humans in them. 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:23.120 They could be any style that you could think of, right? 00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:25.919 And so I just started to think about that. 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:31.200 And that was really what excited me in my role as a marketing leader, because it's like I don't have a big budget. 00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:32.879 I also was in a very niche space. 00:14:32.960 --> 00:14:36.080 It's like there's nothing out there for stock photography in that space. 00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:46.879 How does a brand like mine even put visuals together without a designer that really can resonate with somebody and almost somebody can see themselves in those shoes? 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:48.639 And it's it's just like, what were we doing? 00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:50.240 That wasn't really possible. 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:53.360 And so I saw that, I saw that as like a marketing leader. 00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:59.200 I'm just like, I know people would feel that pain, you know, like I know other people are feeling that exact pain. 00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:09.279 And that's where I started initially was kind of like this idea of like, hey, we could start to build out an entire brand library and repository of images that feel like the brand, right? 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:20.879 Identify that visual DNA, if you will, of the brand, you know, our colors, you know, our aesthetic, our personality, locations, objects, like all those things that make us us. 00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:26.240 And then really just kind of build out visual elements that anybody on the team could use, right? 00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:33.039 Marketing for sure, but sales, CS, product, you know, they've got plenty of use cases available across the board. 00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:35.679 And so I just really became fascinated with that. 00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:42.960 And that I think was really in a lot of ways for for me, where I realized that this is gonna be big. 00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:48.720 This is gonna really affect the entire pipeline of creativity. 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:54.320 And you know, since then, 23-24, I don't have to educate people on that

anymore. 00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:58.799 People know that, you know, and so I think that's kind of what we've seen with with the creative space. 00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:01.200 But Real Talk Pod Squad. 00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:11.759 Everything I just shared with you in this episode, I'm teaching it live Thursday, May 29th, 2026, and it's called Clawed Code for Real Business. 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:19.120 Three hours, a really small group, hands-on, and you'll walk away with something that you actually built. 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:23.919 Not just watched me build it for you, but built it yourself. 00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:30.399 It's 497, it's a live cohort, and we're also going to be selling the recording afterwards. 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:36.159 However, I highly recommend you show up in person because that's where the real AI magic happens. 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:43.200 Head to Stacey Sussman teaches AI all one word and get in before it fills up. 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:48.559 Yeah, we can go into specific examples of that and what that looks like too, but it's it's fascinating. 00:16:48.960 --> 00:17:03.360 Yeah, we had two episodes about verbal strategy and how we had a woman named Lauren Warnick on from Villain Branding about how she does mid-enterprise brands. 00:17:03.679 --> 00:17:11.519 We're talking like the Salesforces, maybe in the drop boxes of the world, and how she was like, it all starts with verbal strategy. 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:20.960 And once we get the verbal strategy right, then the creative, the brand, the palette, the video, the motion, all that kind of comes. 00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:25.680 So I would say listen to those episodes to uh add on to what Drew's saying. 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:36.559 But I would say we share a belief that there needs to be great creative, because I feel like there's no marketing infrastructure worth measuring if you don't have great creative. 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:41.680 And for those that don't have great creative, maybe go talk to Drew and you should level up here. 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:50.640 But just talk to me about the process of what this great creative in the AI world looks like. 00:17:50.799 --> 00:18:02.400 Because I think we're what I find and what I've thought and unlocked from you over the weekend is everyone talks about this in theory, but no one's really talking about like what that means, what that looks like. 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:07.039 So maybe either give an example or you know, tell us what how you would do it. 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:09.119 But like, what tools are you using? 00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:10.960 What things are you thinking about? 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:14.960 How do you kind of go through what that process looks like? 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:17.680 Because creative and AI, great. 00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:20.960 You talked about mid-journey, but and there's so many tools out there. 00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:24.720 Like, what does this look like in practicality a little bit more? 00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:27.680 I'll give you a a few different examples here. 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:32.640 You know, like going back to the visual DNA of a brand, right? 00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:40.000 Historically, these these things lived in a brand guidelines PDF, right? 00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:46.880 It's a bunch of words, a little bit of design in there, depending on what stage of company you're at and how polished it looks, right? 00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:49.599 But the point being, it's it's a very static doc. 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:50.079 Yeah. 00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:55.039 You know, and no one's going to read through it and memorize it from the start to finish. 00:18:55.359 --> 00:18:58.160 And this is one of those superpowers that AI unlocks for you, right? 00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:04.079 It can it can take a vast amount of information and synthesize it for you. 00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:12.720 So one of the things that I like to do for clients is really build out sort of like this visual DNA, this visual identity of the brand. 00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:23.359 And I think that's an elaboration of brand guidelines in the sense that we're tackling what those brand guidelines are, but then we're also sort of filtering that through a visual aspect, right? 00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:31.200 So going into their demographic, going into the types of scenes they might find their demographic in, right? 00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:36.640 The types of photography, like if we're doing photorealism, the types of photography we like, we don't like, right? 00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:41.119 Setting the do's, the don'ts, the guidelines of all the visual elements. 00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:48.640 And then, you know, like you you get to a point where one client we had a page, we had 33 pages of information, right? 00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:51.039 It's like, okay, this is a documents. 00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:53.440 But again, what do you do with it then? 00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:55.039 What do you do with 33 pages? 00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:56.480 I'm not reading 33 pages. 00:19:56.559 --> 00:19:58.400 I was never reading 33 pages. 00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:07.839 But what you can do, right, is take something like that, synthesize it through AI, and create what I would call like a system prompt. 00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:20.880 So that way I can basically distill that down to something that I can essentially copy and paste into a chat with an LLM, or I can put that into an agent or something else, right? 00:20:20.960 --> 00:20:23.920 Like there are many different forms of what that could look like. 00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:27.599 But now I can, let's just use the copy and paste example. 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:30.559 I could just copy and paste that anytime. 00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:36.480 And now I've also I prime the LLM exactly what my brand likes and doesn't like. 00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:47.279 Embedded within that system prompt as well, because of the things I've done on the visual side, I know

how I like my prompt structure to be when I'm prompting for image generation. 00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:47.680 Right. 00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:50.720 I know all those components that we've mapped all those things out. 00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:59.359 So now it's like Stacy can just copy and paste this into an LLM or use an agent and then just say, hey, I'm going to create a campaign on this, right? 00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:04.799 You're providing very minimal details, but a little bit of context as to what you're working on right now, right? 00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:07.200 Like let's just say, what's the next holiday that's coming up? 00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:08.799 It's what, I guess. 00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:12.400 Spring, summer, Memorial Day, or 4th of July, whatever it is. 00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:13.200 July 4th, yeah. 00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:15.839 It's like, hey, we're doing a campaign on this, blah, blah, blah. 00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:16.720 Here's what I want. 00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:20.400 And then once you put that in, it's generating back. 00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:22.880 You could just say, hey, I want 10, 10 prompts. 00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:32.160 And now it's got 10 optimized prompts based on your brand guidelines, based on your campaign that come out that all you have to do is copy and paste and put into an image model. 00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:37.839 90% chance it's exactly what you're looking for because we've done all the heavy lifting up front, right? 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:50.240 Before I was spending time trying to train everybody on how to use AI image tools, teaching them all the vocabulary of, you know, what kind of camera angle is this and lighting is that, and why would you need this and that? 00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:50.720 Right. 00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:58.480 Now, pretend you just walked into an organization and all you had to do was copy and paste or use an agent and then tell that, and then just feed that into AI. 00:21:58.559 --> 00:21:59.680 Like that has changed. 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:01.039 Mind blown. 00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:02.720 Changed completely, right? 00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:09.680 Like that was a totally that was a perfect example of a totally different process that existed a year ago versus now. 00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:16.480 You know, and so it's it's and someone may not be as technical with the camera and the angles and the lighting and the motion. 00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:17.279 Exactly. 00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:19.200 You can't expect them to be, right? 00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:23.200 And that's where it's just like that was one of those big unlocks as well. 00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:29.920 It's just like, how do we create almost like the system, the system style thinking, I think is the real unlock now. 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:42.400 And you know, whereas before I was doing a lot of training specifically on that and upskilling, now it's almost just building the infrastructure, the workflows, the processes, yeah, the systems, right? 00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:53.759 So we can alleviate a lot of like pulling people along and hoping, crossing our fingers that they get there, and then just make things actionable and activate them on day one, you know? 00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:55.200 Yeah, I love that. 00:22:55.359 --> 00:23:02.880 I feel like we are doing a lot in claude and claude code and co-work, and I'm writing some code. 00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:05.519 And I will say I am not a computer science major. 00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:06.720 I am a vibe coder. 00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:09.200 This is just like a very curiosity of mine. 00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:19.279 I spent a lot of time yesterday doing this, and I have now a document that says, what are our brand colors and what are our palettes and what are our do's and what are our don'ts? 00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:22.240 And I've put that into like an MD file. 00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:26.400 And now I've used it for our skills and clawed code. 00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:32.400 And so I'm not constantly being like, you have the wrong navy or you have the wrong gold. 00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:39.279 Like just find the file and kind of reference the file, and then let's like go from there and we can pick up quickly. 00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:40.000 So I love that. 00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:40.720 Yes. 00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:43.759 I can I can show you a visual example too if you want. 00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:46.319 Yeah, I'd love us to see a video example. 00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:53.519 And I would also say for folks listening on the pod, if you have this in a video format, we can put it in our show notes too. 00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:57.759 Yeah, I'll try to I'll try to narrate this the best I can as well. 00:23:58.000 --> 00:23:59.359 I've got several examples of this. 00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:01.119 I'll just use this one for now. 00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:09.599 I mean, this is probably still good for B2B folks, but maybe it's really just the magic here is what's possible. 00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:12.960 So what I want to do in a big wireframe. 00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:16.559 We are looking at some some crazy plumbing here. 00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:19.039 This is like a whole node-based system. 00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:32.960 But what I'm what I'm essentially showing here before I narrate this is really the ability to create an on-demand photo shoot and capture all these different angles and create these like net new assets out of nowhere, right? 00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:38.240 Because it's it's cool to create one thing one time, but then it's also like, how do I build on that? 00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:39.359 How can I tell a story? 00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:40.799 How can I connect dots? 00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:41.119 Right. 00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:44.720 So this is thinking beyond just sort of this ad hoc aspect. 00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:48.000 But what I did here for this example is I took three things. 00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:54.720 And these are three things that I I didn't have at

all because I wanted to prove the point of like you could start with nothing if you had to. 00:24:55.119 --> 00:25:00.559 So I found, you know, basically an image that had an entire clothing set. 00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:06.640 I found a person, a man here that was gonna use as my model, and I found a backdrop. 00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:11.759 And I could create any of these things with AI or I could source them somehow. 00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:14.000 These things I I think I all source from Pinterest. 00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:19.440 And I just combined those three things and I said, hey, look, like I want to create. 00:25:19.599 --> 00:25:22.160 So basically I took those three images. 00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:35.440 So we're talking stock images of like an outfit, a model that has is a man that has like a certain kind of vibe and flair to him, and a stool and and what I would say is like a studio. 00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:37.039 Yeah. 00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:37.359 Yeah. 00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:41.599 So this is so then it's like, okay, let's let's let's combine those three things together. 00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:45.680 And this is where it's like a tool like Nano Banana Pro is great, right? 00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:50.400 Because it's you're just providing these three elements and you're saying, hey, I want to take this exact man. 00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:55.920 I want you to apply, you know, this clothing set, this wardrobe, and I want to put them in this location. 00:25:56.079 --> 00:25:58.720 And then all of a sudden I've got, you know, this seed image here. 00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:00.799 And this is where it, you know, it all kind of starts. 00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:14.160 Because then it's like, hey, I want to, you know, I want to gr generate 20 distinct camera angles for this scene, each highlighting different elements from the image that capture the look and feel, keep every description under 30 words. 00:26:14.319 --> 00:26:19.839 So essentially what this next thing, this next node here is is just a bunch of different camera angles, right? 00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:20.720 And they're separate. 00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:25.599 You know, expertise that you would know which camera angles you want to do. 00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:26.000 Yeah. 00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:34.640 And like dumb this down, but I'll say that is your secret sauce that you have a creative director angle to you, expertise. 00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:35.440 Okay, sure. 00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:36.000 I'll take that. 00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:44.880 But like it's also like any anywhere that you shop online, you you probably have this experience where you see the model, you probably see a a couple different views of that. 00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:52.240 Maybe one straight on, maybe one from the side, maybe one like one or two or macro close-ups of maybe the stitching or right, something like that. 00:26:52.400 --> 00:26:55.599 Something that has sort of like the texture to it so you can really get a good feel. 00:26:55.839 --> 00:27:02.799 And that's what this is is it's basically taking these 20 new shots and it's breaking them into 20 new prompts here. 00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:04.240 That's all that's doing. 00:27:04.720 --> 00:27:08.079 And it gives me something like this, right? 00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:11.680 Where it's keeping all the details exactly the same. 00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:13.839 There's no morphing here, right? 00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:17.119 Like the the hat doesn't change, nothing changes. 00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:21.440 Uh but I'm getting 20 different angles of somebody, right? 00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:23.119 Of this, of this shot. 00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:27.519 And so it's like you could think about this from any e-comm standpoint. 00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:37.599 Uh there are B2B examples of this as well that I can show, but this is just I I think fascinating because it's like, okay, well, could you replace an entire photo shoot with AI today? 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:38.240 Yeah, you could. 00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:38.559 Yes. 00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:42.720 Now, do you have to think to that extreme? 00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:43.920 That's where people get hung up. 00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:45.359 They think it's one or the other. 00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:51.119 In my mind, as a photographer, I'm thinking, well, even if I don't want to use, yeah, do do do both. 00:27:51.279 --> 00:27:55.039 Because what if there's a a camera angle you forgot to get while you were on site? 00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:56.799 What if there was a colorway you forgot to shoot? 00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:00.480 What if there was a outfit or something like that? 00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:00.960 Right. 00:28:01.279 --> 00:28:07.599 What if there was something that you would have normally had to call this model back again for or whatever, whatever it is, right? 00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:10.079 Now save them money. 00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:14.400 Or even if it's the model and you like the the angles that you got them in. 00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:17.279 If they've approved that, why wouldn't you just change the outfit on them? 00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:17.759 Right. 00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:19.839 You know, like you could save time in the studio doing stuff. 00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:22.960 So I think it's a combination, and I think that's up for everybody to decide. 00:28:23.119 --> 00:28:26.880 But the point is, is I've got 20 new assets right here. 00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:33.680 And then I could take this even a step further and say, okay, let me like, let me turn these into, you know, little videos, right? 00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:40.640 Like, you know, a lot of these brands are doing some of the video stuff now when they're doing e-commerce selling, right? 00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:42.720 So it's like now you can add some movement here. 00:28:43.119 --> 00:28:45.759 So the model's now moving over the stool. 00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:47.920 He's wearing a bag and the model's moving. 00:28:48.000 --> 00:29:09.599 And

what you're saying is, if I get this right, you took a person, I don't know if this is a real or fictitious person, you took real, I think, products, you took ish, real-looking background with a stool, and now you've put stitch stool stills together, and now this person is actually moving. 00:29:09.839 --> 00:29:29.680 And now you have a social short vignette of a simulation that never really existed, but creativity from a creativity standpoint, you want it to exist in your head, and now it's there, and you can find it on Meta, Instagram, Pinterest, wherever we're talking. 00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:36.480 You don't have to hire a videographer in that standpoint if you didn't want to. 00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:42.160 If you want to, you know, implement a little bit of movement in some of the images that you're selling with. 00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:44.079 Now, these are the 20 images. 00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:45.839 I'm looking at these 20 images below. 00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:47.920 These were the statics that we created. 00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:50.079 These ones are also statics, but are a little bit different. 00:29:50.240 --> 00:29:53.759 You see how I went around this person 360? 00:29:54.079 --> 00:29:54.240 Right. 00:29:54.400 --> 00:29:59.519 So we're looking at this person from the shoulders and they're sort of turning and all the stills. 00:29:59.599 --> 00:30:10.319 And that's how, for those that are can't see it, but that's how you're getting the I'll say social short vignette of this person looking like they're moving, because you have about six stills from different angles. 00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:18.240 And and the reason I did that too is so I don't get any hallucinations or morphing from the video model filling details in that it doesn't have. 00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:19.279 Very important. 00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:27.519 So when you get this from like, hey, I've shot this person from behind their head, the side of their head, three quarters, and in front, it's got all the details, right? 00:30:27.680 --> 00:30:28.960 It doesn't have to confuse that. 00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:33.759 So then you get to this kind of point, and it's just again, that's that's pretty fascinating, right? 00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:36.559 Like that's one awesome use case. 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:40.720 I'll see if I can open this one up too, if it's not going to give me a hard time. 00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:45.440 Some of these that have like a lot of information in them may take a long time. 00:30:46.160 --> 00:31:01.200 No, but I feel like that what while you're loading it up, what I'll say is I think that LinkedIn, because that's just where I spend a lot of my time and I know you do too, makes it seem like everybody has it figured out. 00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:30.319 And I think what I've been learning while talking to experts in this space and folks that are just super niche in areas of marketing, all different facets, is everyone is figuring it out, and then everyone is pulling

from experience of what they used to do and saying, when I was in that job, now with AI, I always wanted to do, you know, I always wanted to create, you know, a hundred different camera angles, but I was a Series A startup and I didn't have the budget. 00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:34.880 So we only had to go with like 10 or 15 because that's all we had money for. 00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:44.319 But I could have done some more A-B testing, my creative campaigns across all different social platforms and mediums if I had more assets. 00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:51.359 And so now my budget can sort of extend further and I can see what this metrics and measurement looks like. 00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:56.079 And I could do it not on, I'll say a huge budget. 00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:58.960 We could do it a little bit more on like a shoestring budget. 00:31:59.359 --> 00:31:59.839 That's right. 00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:00.480 That's right. 00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:03.119 So I don't know if this one is gonna load. 00:32:03.200 --> 00:32:05.200 This is also a really good example, though. 00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:07.039 This is for Magic Spoon. 00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:09.279 The cereal brand. 00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:13.359 Yeah, this is gonna be very like I'm not gonna be able to zoom into this, but That's okay. 00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:14.240 We'll share the link. 00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:18.640 This is an entire different setup, strictly for social posts, right? 00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:20.799 So I took an existing product. 00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:24.480 I just took the package, like the cereal box. 00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:27.359 Which is so fun and creative already. 00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:37.839 Had you know worked with an LLM to identify, like to synthesize this brand's visual identity just by providing like a couple of images that they use on social or on their website. 00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:40.319 And then it draws all these conclusions, right? 00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:46.640 And then I'm setting very strict rules, you know, to not go beyond those conclusions, but I've got things like their hex codes, right? 00:32:46.720 --> 00:32:49.599 All these things, their style, their personality. 00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:54.720 And now I'm able to just create all these social assets at scale, right? 00:32:54.799 --> 00:32:56.000 In a in a click. 00:32:56.240 --> 00:32:58.720 And I think like stuff like that's really fascinating too. 00:32:58.880 --> 00:33:03.119 It's like, again, one of those conversations, do you want to use AI for your entire process? 00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:13.599 Probably not, but you could see that this would have a huge effect when you're planning certain content campaigns or projects or the types of different things that you're doing. 00:33:13.839 --> 00:33:19.920 You could do this in five minutes versus like having a designer mock something up that's gonna take a few hours just for one thing, right? 00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:21.279 Like this is a game changer. 00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:21.839 Yeah. 00:33:21.920 --> 00:33:27.599 The one thing we hear from our clients at RevUp often is, you know, on the marketing side, we have so much to do. 00:33:27.759 --> 00:33:34.960 We have to write the copy and we have to resize the files and the assets across all the different vendors that we work with. 00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:40.000 And we only have, you know, five stills and we don't have enough variation in the creative. 00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:45.680 What you're saying now with AI is if you know how to do this, I'll say smartly. 00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:48.720 And if you don't, you can talk to people like myself and Drew. 00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:50.319 This is a game changer. 00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:54.079 You spend time up front planning this out. 00:33:54.400 --> 00:34:08.480 And then when you go into what I call like the marketing assets, all the different activities you're doing in marketing and you want to measure, you now have all the verbal strategy and the motion, the visuals, the stills, the social stewards. 00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:12.320 This, like time to speed just like changes everything. 00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:16.239 Uh, time to speed is that's a great, yeah, that's a great way to say it. 00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:22.480 You know, and look, there's, you know, in that example I showed, there was probably like 60 still images. 00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:25.119 You could be super picky about what those are. 00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:31.519 And and look, if I didn't like any of those, right, first thing I would do was would be change like something in the prompt. 00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:39.199 But like hypothetically, though, I could just select all those and regenerate and have 60 new ones in less than two minutes. 00:34:39.440 --> 00:34:41.119 Like, that's where we're at. 00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:45.440 And so, you know, when you're saying like, how is this changing creative? 00:34:45.519 --> 00:35:03.599 It's just like, well, you could almost have one person that is really like the architect, you know, building these things, and then have all these other people that are really just able to create things on demand with little to no friction, you know, and then and then again, you're thinking about the approval levels of is this on brand? 00:35:03.760 --> 00:35:05.119 Is that we've already covered that. 00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:06.400 We've already got that, right? 00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:20.400 Like we you know, so so a lot of this thing, and I'm not saying this is 100%, but this gets you to that sweet spot with AI with anything where it's like that 80 to 90, maybe you have to curate a little bit, maybe you have to make a change, a tweak, an edit. 00:35:20.559 --> 00:35:27.840 But this is, you know, understandably like just fascinating and something that that is changing organizations. 00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:31.119 And I think in a lot of ways, it hasn't even affected most of them yet. 00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:33.599 You know, like we're

still early days on a lot of this stuff. 00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:34.320 Yes. 00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:46.880 And what you showed was like on the screen was like a massive workflow with different nodes and you had different AI tools kind of integrated, which I think is the secret sauce of what you do and how you bring it all together. 00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:53.440 But I think the reality is this is possible for a lot more companies and organizations. 00:35:53.679 --> 00:35:56.079 And like you said, we are in the very early days of this. 00:35:56.159 --> 00:36:03.280 We are figuring out Drew's got it figured out more than most, but it's possible to bring this into your organization and do it. 00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:11.199 And if you need to update your campaigns monthly, quarterly, we're just talking, going back to those original prompts, Drew. 00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:18.079 Correct me if I'm wrong, and just tweaking sort of what that looks like and changing the model and the angles and all that. 00:36:18.159 --> 00:36:25.119 And now you have a whole new set of creative and a new set of campaigns that's more on target for what the initiative is now versus then. 00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:26.159 100%. 00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:28.719 And I've I've seen this affect big brands. 00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:30.400 I've worked with big brands on this stuff. 00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:34.480 I've worked with small startups like the first use case I had. 00:36:34.639 --> 00:36:43.599 And so that just tells you like, if if you're a small team, you might have somebody that kind of does a little bit of the design, kind of does a little bit of the creative, or maybe you have one person, right? 00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:49.039 This changes the game for them just as much as it does a big company trying to do this at scale, right? 00:36:49.199 --> 00:36:58.880 Because they've got all these different departments, maybe a content team that's focused on, you know, brand partnerships, maybe another one that's focused on, you know, creator content, right? 00:36:58.960 --> 00:37:00.159 Like they're just different pockets. 00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:04.239 And so this is this is a vast thing that applies to most, if not all. 00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:05.440 Amazing. 00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:05.840 All right. 00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:08.400 A few more questions before we wrap up. 00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:17.360 If there's some CMOs or creative directors out there listening, which I hope they are, and they're like, I am drowning in this. 00:37:17.599 --> 00:37:19.599 Like, where do I even start? 00:37:19.840 --> 00:37:24.159 Because I think we are in this little AI bubble that I'm following along. 00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:26.559 I understand what you're saying, I get it. 00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:34.320 I think people get overwhelmed and like, this sounds great, but I can never do this for my company because I don't even know where to start. 00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:36.320 So, like, where's a good place to start?

00:37:36.400 --> 00:37:39.440 Is it, you know, following people on LinkedIn and learning about it? 00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:41.440 Is it starting with the tools? 00:37:41.599 --> 00:37:43.920 Is it going and buying a course? 00:37:44.079 --> 00:37:48.719 Like, I get this question asked all the time like, where should I go to learn about AI? 00:37:48.880 --> 00:37:52.079 And I I mean, my answer is, well, what do you want to learn about AI? 00:37:52.159 --> 00:37:55.920 But here, let's just stay in the lane of creative. 00:37:56.239 --> 00:37:58.719 I think that's it, because you can get lost in the sauce. 00:37:58.960 --> 00:38:00.400 Because it all sounds cool, right? 00:38:00.559 --> 00:38:06.000 Like my biggest struggle is I've got so many things just saved, bookmarked, that I want to try. 00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:09.039 And the reality is I'll maybe get to try 5% of them. 00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:16.480 I think it is about following the right people to a degree in whatever format that exists for you, like that that you best like, right? 00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:29.920 So whether that's newsletter, whether that's for me, it's like X and just saving and bookmarking things because X is also a place where I see a lot of creatives that are doing things that probably won't be seen on LinkedIn for like another couple weeks or months. 00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:35.679 Like it's just it's a it's a place where you kind of get things sooner stream. 00:38:35.920 --> 00:38:37.440 And so for me, that's a good place. 00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:38.800 There's a lot of good people doing that. 00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:40.320 And then I'll just save those things. 00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:50.079 And again, the things I try to filter it by what is maybe the most applicable to me and and start and play with those things. 00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:57.119 But you brought up a really good thing that I also do, which is I'll feed the LLM specific posts. 00:38:57.199 --> 00:39:03.599 I'll take the entire post, even if they like the perfect example right now is a Claude Skills or plugins or this or that and the other. 00:39:03.679 --> 00:39:08.159 It's like, hey, I I want to know if this skill is worth doing for me, right? 00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:09.519 Because is this relevant? 00:39:09.679 --> 00:39:17.119 Like I want you to dig into the entire GitHub, go through all the files, take into account everything that you know about me, the projects that I'm working on. 00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:18.639 I want to know how relevant this is. 00:39:18.800 --> 00:39:23.039 I want to know how how much of an impact it would make on me if I were to do this, right? 00:39:23.199 --> 00:39:27.039 Put that on a scale one to 10, be as objective as possible, you know, all that stuff, right? 00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:30.960 And then I'm filtering down to know if I should even spend the time there. 00:39:31.199 --> 00:39:36.320 You know, like I think there's that's also like a skill to develop is knowing what not to pursue. 00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:41.840 So I think you have to use AI to help you troubleshoot and figure things out too. 00:39:41.920 --> 00:39:48.719 I mean, I use AI to troubleshoot almost everything I'm building with with Claude because I'll get stuck along the way. 00:39:48.800 --> 00:39:50.079 I'm like, okay, but how do I do that? 00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:50.719 It'll tell me something. 00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:52.880 I'm like, yeah, but how do I do that? 00:39:53.119 --> 00:39:54.400 You know, it's like, okay, we'll do this. 00:39:54.559 --> 00:39:56.000 And it's like, that still doesn't make sense. 00:39:56.159 --> 00:39:58.880 And I'll screenshot it and I'll be like, what now? 00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:00.880 You know, that was my whole yes too. 00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:01.760 That's what we gotta do. 00:40:02.079 --> 00:40:02.800 That's what we gotta do. 00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:08.960 So I'm just saying, like, don't be afraid to go back and forth with even the LLM. 00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:22.960 I think the most important part probably is if you are using something like Claude with these MD files, is go deep on the Claude MD file itself and give it as much context into you as possible that you're willing to share. 00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:26.960 And it's gonna connect some of those dots, you know, for you. 00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:49.519 And, you know, building up, I think, a lot of those files where it's just got so much context into either the people I work with, like I've got files on client, like individual people within my clients, and it take it's taking conversations from Slack, it's taking conversations from email, it's taking, you know, conversations from transcripts that we've had on a meeting, right? 00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:52.000 So it knows a bunch of these things about this person. 00:40:52.079 --> 00:41:02.000 So when I say, hey, write it, write an email to Stacy about this, it already knows what project I'm talking about, it already knows what you know, what Stacy knows about me, how we communicate, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:10.559 So, you know, the five, the MD files is probably one of the biggest things that you can do from an LLM standpoint. 00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:17.679 From a trying thing standpoint, save things and you know, see if you can figure them out and don't put too much pressure on yourself either. 00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:29.119 There's a lot of value in creating things that you may just be creating for fun, but ultimately provide a nice little learning rep and experience for you that will pay off later on. 00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:35.360 So, I mean, I do a lot of stuff where I'm like, why did I waste, you know, half a day on that for no reason? 00:41:35.599 --> 00:41:41.599 But it like it'll come back and it'll be like, oh, okay, well, I'm glad I did that now because I wouldn't have I wouldn't have done this. 00:41:42.079 --> 00:41:42.559 Yes. 00:41:42.880 --> 00:41:47.920 We be created for RevUp a

MD file on our strategy. 00:41:48.079 --> 00:41:52.000 And so we actually used the MKT1 framework. 00:41:52.159 --> 00:42:02.960 Shout out to Emily Kramer, and we created a MD file of RevUp, who we are, what we are want to become, and then like where the company wants to go and evolve to. 00:42:03.119 --> 00:42:05.440 And we're constantly updating the MD file. 00:42:05.599 --> 00:42:24.719 But now when I'm able to do, like I was telling Drew before we started recording, like podcast prep, and I fed it Drew's LinkedIn and your portfolio and some of the calls that we had, it didn't get it perfectly right as we learned, but it gave me like it was 80% baked of like where we want it to go. 00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:28.480 And so I always think like, what's the strategy? 00:42:28.639 --> 00:42:33.199 What's all the information you can feed it to be like, what's the North Star and where is it going? 00:42:33.360 --> 00:42:37.760 And I think going, I have a question here that's like, where are we going in the next 12 to 18 months? 00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:39.199 I was like, that's bogus. 00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:41.599 Where are we going like in three weeks from now? 00:42:41.760 --> 00:42:44.320 Because it's changing so 12 to 18 months, man. 00:42:44.400 --> 00:42:45.840 I I got asked that the other day. 00:42:46.079 --> 00:42:47.519 Well, it was like three to five years. 00:42:48.159 --> 00:42:50.079 I was gonna ask you, yeah, I don't even know, man. 00:42:50.239 --> 00:42:51.599 I I don't even know the answer to that. 00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:52.159 I wish I did. 00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:53.039 I'd write a book on it. 00:42:53.119 --> 00:42:55.599 But yeah, I think it's like, where are we gonna be this summer? 00:42:55.760 --> 00:42:56.880 Where are we gonna be this fall? 00:42:57.039 --> 00:43:01.840 I feel like that's as quick as we can think because this stuff is changing so fast. 00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:03.199 But I love that. 00:43:03.679 --> 00:43:10.079 This is great for folks that don't know what MD files are, or what I was gonna say, we should probably point that out, right? 00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:11.199 Yeah. 00:43:11.440 --> 00:43:30.639 Um, I mean, I am going to record a solo episode about like MCPs, and I feel like Claude has custom connectors and you can connect APIs if the custom if the connectors aren't in Claude code yet, but I think we're talking like way far ahead of what folks know. 00:43:31.039 --> 00:43:32.320 But this is all possible. 00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:36.000 And there's people like Drew and myself that can be there teaching you. 00:43:36.159 --> 00:43:38.239 And if you don't know it, that's okay. 00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:46.159 You can find people that know more, I'll say the technical part of it, but you know your company, you know your brand, you know what you want to do. 00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:49.039 That is to me like a great starting point. 00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:53.679 Yeah, like uh anything recurring is a great thing to explore,

right? 00:43:53.840 --> 00:43:59.760 Like you've probably you are, you know, the listeners have probably heard that, but it's like anything recurring that you do is probably worth exploring to see if there's a way. 00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:02.400 A faster and more efficient way to do it. 00:44:03.519 --> 00:44:08.239 MD file, by the way, just markdown file is just the best way for LLMs to read stuff. 00:44:08.320 --> 00:44:12.880 So we're not we're not gonna go too hard on the acronym stuff, but hopefully that makes sense. 00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:19.599 It's just basically a formatted way for LLMs to read and contextualize at the highest capability that they can. 00:44:20.079 --> 00:44:27.679 And you know, like there are plenty of times where you're not gonna know what you're doing, but again, spar back and forth with the LLM. 00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:30.960 Like I built a Cowendly replacement for myself. 00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:31.599 I love it. 00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:36.960 I didn't know anything about authentication and you know, like even API stuff within it. 00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:42.239 I just kept asking, you know, like anytime I got stuck, screenshotting where I'm at, what do I do now? 00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:43.199 Okay, done. 00:44:43.360 --> 00:44:43.599 Right. 00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:45.519 Like, just keep going back and forth. 00:44:45.599 --> 00:44:49.440 And I think that's probably the best way to learn anything that you don't know. 00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:50.559 Yeah. 00:44:50.800 --> 00:44:50.960 Yeah. 00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:52.880 But I think the important part is that you're playing, right? 00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:57.440 Like if you're putting in the reps, you're building the muscle to keep learning because it's only going to keep changing. 00:44:57.760 --> 00:44:58.159 Yes. 00:44:58.400 --> 00:44:59.199 Very important. 00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:05.039 So talk to us about how folks on the pod can find you. 00:45:05.280 --> 00:45:07.280 I love following you on LinkedIn. 00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:11.199 I think you put some great content out there all the time, actually. 00:45:12.639 --> 00:45:13.519 Not as much lately. 00:45:13.599 --> 00:45:15.920 I I'll I'll call myself out on it. 00:45:16.400 --> 00:45:21.519 You've been you've been working it, you've been tinkering on the outside, but I'm sure you'll bring it to light soon. 00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:23.039 So LinkedIn's good. 00:45:23.199 --> 00:45:24.159 LinkedIn's a good place. 00:45:24.320 --> 00:45:25.920 I would say X is also a good place. 00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:27.840 So LinkedIn is just Drew Brucker. 00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:32.400 On X, it's DC Brook, also on Instagram. 00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:36.559 Also do a podcast on the visual and AI stuff. 00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:39.760 So it's currently called Midjourney Fast Hours. 00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:42.960 Originally started as just a Midjourney podcast. 00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:48.159 And I do that with a co-host of mine, and he's probably even

smarter than me with this stuff. 00:45:48.480 --> 00:45:58.079 He him and I went really hard into sort of like Midjourney as it really was the king of the AI image generation space for a long time. 00:45:58.239 --> 00:46:02.320 And now we've kind of expanded that into video, into Claude, and all these things. 00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:04.400 And that's uh called Midjourney Fast Hours. 00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:05.280 That's on YouTube. 00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:09.840 But we're probably gonna change that name to fast hours before this goes live. 00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:12.000 So we're gonna drop the mid journey part. 00:46:12.159 --> 00:46:16.719 We do an hour every week, every other week, kind of diving into the creative tools. 00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:25.039 So like the Image Gen tools, the latest there, the video, even some of the stuff that we're building in Claude, in LLMs, in our client work. 00:46:25.199 --> 00:46:31.199 So it's I think it's like just a very casual way for us to kind of experiment and show what we're doing with you. 00:46:31.360 --> 00:46:35.599 So perhaps if you want to, you know, learn that way, there's another outlet for you. 00:46:35.920 --> 00:46:36.639 Awesome. 00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:39.280 Well, thank you for being on the pod. 00:46:39.360 --> 00:46:45.199 I feel like we can talk for several hours about this topic because I think it's changing so rapidly. 00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:49.760 And we are very familiar with the acronyms. 00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:51.840 We are very familiar with what this looks like. 00:46:52.000 --> 00:47:06.159 When you pulled up your sort of massive workflow and node, what I realized in clients that we service at RevUp in like the mid-market space, sub$50 million in ARR, is they don't really know what we know. 00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:11.119 So if you don't know, you can come and talk and hire people like Drew and I. 00:47:11.199 --> 00:47:14.480 Because, like I said, you do not have to have it all figured out. 00:47:14.639 --> 00:47:18.639 You just need to find the experts that know it better than you. 00:47:18.800 --> 00:47:22.639 And I think I believe everyone will eventually catch up. 00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:31.840 This is my own theory, but I think folks like us are way ahead of the time just because we've been in it for a couple more years than other people have, because it's new. 00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:33.280 It's new for everyone. 00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:39.840 I mean, the reality is too, if you got a full-time job that isn't this, it it's it's near impossible. 00:47:39.920 --> 00:47:45.840 I I mean, this is my full-time job working with clients on this stuff, and I still can't keep up 100%, right? 00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:47.119 So that's the world we're in. 00:47:47.360 --> 00:47:47.840 Yes. 00:47:48.159 --> 00:47:49.280 Well, thank you, Drew. 00:47:49.360 --> 00:47:50.800 This has been amazing. 00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:53.920 I know you really knocked it out of the park. 00:47:54.079 --> 00:47:54.880 So I appreciate it. 00:47:55.039 --> 00:47:57.599 Please send us any of those videos that you want to share. 00:47:57.679 --> 00:48:02.559 We can share it in our show notes for those that are listening and didn't get to see the visuals of what he was sharing. 00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:07.679 This is next level creative stuff, but I would say this is here to stay. 00:48:07.760 --> 00:48:12.719 And so if you don't have it figured out or you're like, oh my God, what are we talking about? 00:48:13.039 --> 00:48:16.239 Dive in, dig in, and learn because the time's now. 00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:17.840 Thank you, Pod Squad. 00:48:18.320 --> 00:48:19.679 We'll talk soon. 00:48:20.320 --> 00:48:29.519 As we wrap up this episode of C-Suite Strategies, I want to express my sincere gratitude to you, our listeners, for tuning in and engaging with our podcast. 00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:35.920 Your commitment to business growth and operational excellence is what drives this podcast forward. 00:48:36.159 --> 00:48:41.599 A special thank you to our guests today for sharing their valuable business insights and experience. 00:48:41.840 --> 00:48:46.639 Your wisdom is a gift to our audience, and we're honored to have had you on our show today. 00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:52.000 If you enjoyed this episode, we'd be thrilled if you follow and subscribe to the podcast. 00:48:52.239 --> 00:48:58.480 Your help supports us to reach more ambitious business leaders just like you. 00:48:58.639 --> 00:49:01.840 And if you didn't enjoy it, well, I guess I'll see you never. 00:49:02.320 --> 00:49:08.880 This is your host, Stacy Sussman, Chief Revenue Officer at RevUp Advisory, signing off.