התמלול המלא של Chapter 6 | Know That I Know

about how well he knew this area where the body was found, About his level of violence, About the way he beat up gay people, about the way he beat her if she would look at him wrong, He beat the shit out of her. The slightest provocation he would get violent, so I could easily picture him killing Michelle over whatever. 00:08:25 Speaker 1: I mean. 00:08:26 Speaker 8: It didn't have to be rational. And of course I remember driving home from that thinking Jesus Christ, this is the guy. It matches in so many ways. 00:08:42 Speaker 4: Richard Bartman and Scott Cupp keep gathering information about Jeremy's connection to Michelle Schofield's murder. They're making the case that Leo deserves a new trial. Not only do they have fingerprints that linked Jeremy Scott to the vehicle Michelle was driving the night she went missing, have testimony that Jeremy used to take his girlfriend Jamie to the same place where Michelle's body was found. Richard Bartman could hardly believe what Jamie had told him. But when Kelsey and I listened to this interview, almost fifteen years after it had been recorded, something else caught our attention. 00:09:21 Speaker 1: Did he ever did. 00:09:24 Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, I kind of thought about that. 00:09:27 Speaker 1: In a long time, and I'm sorry to stir it up. 00:09:29 Speaker 8: I really do apologize, but I don't mean anything personal, but it's questions I got to ask, did he ever? 00:09:38 Speaker 1: Did he ever tell you anything? 00:09:39 Speaker 8: Jeremy, Now, during the course of your relationship about the crimes he did to criminal ax or any sort of criminal activity. 00:09:47 Speaker 2: He told me he had killed a cab driver. He was sixteen seventeen at time, and that he had gotten away with it O and that was just a couple months before he got arrested to his forehead thanks. 00:10:05 Speaker 9: When he was telling me that. 00:10:11 Speaker 4: Kelsey and I run down the list of murders that Jeremy's linked to. We know that Jeremy bragged about killing Juel Johnson after he was acquitted of her murder. Jewel was found shot dead in a trailer behind her house. Jeremy's fingerprints were lifted from her eyeglasses and coin wrappers at the scene. Jewel Johnson is murder number one, and Jeremy was convicted in the nineteen eighty eight murder of Donald Moorehead. He smashed him over the head with a grape juice bottle and strangled him with a telephone cord. Jeremy was forensically tied to that crime scene and he admitted to that killing as well. Donald Moorehead is murder number two, and Jeremy's fingerprints were found inside Michelle Schofield's car. Her body was discovered in the same Canal where Jeremy used to take Jamie to have sex with her Michelle Schofield is murder number three. But now Jamie mentions that Jeremy had spontaneously confessed to another murder, the killing of a taxicab driver. Is this murder number four. We don't have a lot to go on, but we start digging. We know that if Jeremy killed a taxicab driver, it would most likely be in that two year period between December nineteen eighty six, when he's released after his acquittal of the Juwel Johnson murder, and Halloween of nineteen eighty eight, when he's locked up for killing Donald Morehead. That matches what Jamie told Bartman. Jeremy would have been sixteen or seventeen at the time. We search through databases for unsolved homicides and flo We combed through newspaper archives for stories about cab drivers killed in central Florida between nineteen eighty six and nineteen eighty eight, and then one murder catches our attention. In the spring of nineteen eighty seven, right near the Polk County line, a twenty five year old taxi cab driver named Joseph Lavere was shot dead just outside a little community called Intercession City. A suspect named dan Odie was arrested and brought to trial twice, but the second trial ended with the defendant's acquittal. No one else is ever charged in the death of Joseph Lavere, so this is an unsolved murder. From his records, we know that Jeremy was not in jail at that time. It happened just six weeks after Michelle Schofield was killed, so we dig a little deeper. We start piecing together the crime from newspaper coverage, and this is what we learn. It's late at night April tenth, nineteen eighty seven. Lavere is driving a taxi for the Yellow Cab Company and he's close to finishing his shift when he gets a call from his dispatcher directing him to pick up a passenger at a kmart in Kassimi. Lavere picks up the passenger around ten forty five pm, but about an hour later, the cab driver's body is spotted just off the shoulder of Old Tampa Highway. It seems that whoever killed Joseph Lavere stole the taxi turned off the highway, crossed the railroad tracks, and sped onto a quiet residential street in Intercession City. He must have been driving fast, because he quickly lost control of the vehicle, sideswiping a parked car and crashing into a power pole that knocked out the electricity in the neighborhood. Residents ran outside to see what happened and caught a glimpse of the suspect as he fled the scene. The witnesses told police they'd seen a white man around five foot ten of a thin or medium build running from the cab. He was wearing jeans and a flannel shirt, had brown hair, and screamed it's gonna blow before he disappeared into the woods. Inside the taxi, deputies found a black baseball cap sitting in the back seat. We were able to get our hands on a photo of this cap. There's a design on the front of it, a skull wearing a cowboy hat with a big Confederate flag in the background. And then there's this other. Part of Bartman's interview with Jamie, I replay it over and over again. Jamie says that when she first met Jeremy, there was something about his appearance that stood out to. 00:14:57 Speaker 2: Her eyed a ham when I thought was weird. He gnied he'd bleaching hair brown. 00:15:06 Speaker 4: Jamie thought this was odd because Jeremy never maintained

that color. Naturally, his hair was brown, and when the dark roots grew back in, Jamie said, he never bleached it again. She and Jeremy met just before his eighteenth birthday, about a week after Joseph Lavere was killed. It's a small thing, but it could match up with what we know about Lavere's murder. It would make sense that the suspect, knowing he'd been seen, might try to change his appearance. And there's another clue. In Richard Bartman's interview with Jamie, she mentions that Jeremy wasn't particularly close with anyone at that time, except maybe his younger brother. That brother has a pretty distinct name. So we were able to track down Royal Dean. 00:15:56 Speaker 9: Scott to accept this call and all future plus one now so the phone calls our subject to monitoring and recording. You have thirty eight dollars twenty four cents, Hi, Royal. 00:16:14 Speaker 4: Yeah, he was locked up in the Russell County Jail in Alabama, awaiting transfer to state prison. On an obstruction of justice charge. I sent Royal Dean a letter, told him I opened a phone account with the jail and gave him my number. 00:16:31 Speaker 10: I got no problem with answering this, buddy that you gotta asked somebody in allted to don't incriminate Jeremy on something that's gonna hurt him. I got a problem with that. 00:16:39 Speaker 4: I start chatting with Royal Dean pretty frequently over a period of a few weeks. He calls when he can and sometimes leaves voicemail messages. We talk about what Jeremy was like as a kid in their family life. But I'm also trying to find out more about Jeremy's possible links to the murder of Joseph Lavere. 00:16:59 Speaker 6: Did you guys believe it? Intercession City at some point? 00:17:02 Speaker 1: Oh? 00:17:02 Speaker 10: Yeah, that's where me and my wife met, okay in a session. City is where well man, Jeremy pretty much grow up. 00:17:12 Speaker 6: Really, I mean, did you ever hear anything, Because one of the other things that Jeremy confessed to Jamie about was robbing a cab driver on the way home from Kasimmi towards Intercession City. Did you ever hear anything about that? 00:17:29 Speaker 11: Yes? 00:17:29 Speaker 10: I heard about what is that? 00:17:32 Speaker 6: What happened? 00:17:33 Speaker 11: Uh? 00:17:37 Speaker 10: Wow? I'd heard about the cab driver, man Robb, but I didn't I couldn't tell you. I guess about Jeremy. 00:17:47 Speaker 4: He doesn't seem to want to go into this with me. Still, Royal Dean keeps calling. We talk about his legal troubles, and I keep asking about Jeremy, hoping he shares more about their time an Intercession city. And finally he lets something slip. 00:18:07 Speaker 10: I remember him saying something about robbing the cans I remember my brother telling me about jumping out of a car, I mean about taking that out of the money, and that something about a gun. 00:18:17 Speaker 6: Do you remember him with blonde hair, Yeah, that would be about right soon. Is he trying to change his identity or something? 00:18:26 Speaker 10: I think so. I remember the blonde hair, and I remember the canserver being robbed, and I remember him saying something about it, and then he had to leave for the while. And see, I never got any details. I just know that my brother disappeared after that. For a while. 00:18:43 Speaker 4: After this conversation, Royal Dean disappeared too. The phone call stopped coming when he was transferred to a state prison outside of Montgomery. 00:19:00 Speaker 12: I am Jason Flamm, CEO and founder of Lava for Good podcasts, home to Bone Valley, Wrongful Conviction, The War on Drugs, and many other great podcasts. Today we're asking you, our listeners, to take part in a survey. Your feedback is going to help inform how we make podcasts in the future. Your complete and candid answers will help us continue to bring you more insightful and inspiring stories about important topics that impact us all. So please go to Lava for goood dot com slash survey and participate today. Thank you for your support. 00:19:34 Speaker 13: Bone Valley is sponsored by Stand Together. Stand Together is a philanthropic community that partners with America's boldest change makers to tackle the root causes of our country's biggest problems, including the broken criminal justice system. Christina Dent is one of many entrepreneurs partnering with Stand Together to end the War on drugs, the underlying cause of many problems such as overincarceration and the criminalization of a in communities across the country. As a foster mom, Christina came into contact with the War on drugs when she saw how it was ripping apart the family she worked with. She witnessed how kids were affected and how mothers wanted something better for their families but didn't have the tools to get there themselves. Christina Dent started a nonprofit called End It for Good because she knew there was a better solution to help these families. She's working to end the war on drugs in Mississippi and build consensus around the state to help families struggling with substance abuse problems find a different path forward than the one they've been given. Stand Together has many more stories like this one, as it partners with thousands of change makers who were driving solutions in education, health care, poverty, and the criminal justice system. To learn more about the War on drugs, listen to the War on Drugs podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Kelsey and I go down to the Osceola County Clerk's office to look at the case files and trial transcripts from the murder of Joseph Lavere. I wanted to find out what was collected from the cab to see if there was any DNA evidence or fingerprints that could be run. One of the great things about doing research in Florida is the state Sunshine Law that requires that all state, county, and municipal records be made available to the public. 00:21:36 Speaker 4: But we don't get off to a very promising start. After asking for the file,

we wait for about an hour and then they send down not one, not two, but three clerks to talk to us. 00:21:52 Speaker 3: Hello. Hi, I'm Gilbert, I'm good. 00:21:55 Speaker 14: How are you? You're welcome? 00:21:58 Speaker 3: I am saying it, Suzy. 00:22:01 Speaker 14: Kelsey, nice to meet you. Yes, so you're interested in the Daniel aunt file. 00:22:11 Speaker 4: Donna is mispronouncing his name. But Daniel Odie was the man who was tried twice and was eventually acquitted of killing the cab driver Joseph Laverare. 00:22:21 Speaker 14: It doesn't have the arrest affidavit. It's a partial file. So what's in here you are entitled to view? I don't know. 00:22:33 Speaker 4: If Donna shows me a slim file, it can't have more than one hundred pages in it. Usually the clerk's office will turn over boxes of files with transcripts, police reports, and depositions, thousands of pages. Again, this is all supposed to be public record, and I'm entitled to view all of it, or preferable, I just want to look at it first and see what's in there because we're looking these were two trials too. Homicide trials usually there's like transcripts notation about where physical evidence might be. 00:23:06 Speaker 14: Since he was found not guilty, the physical evidence would no longer be available, and. 00:23:12 Speaker 4: Is it disposed or is it just not available to the public. This is infuriating me and I'm trying not to show it. If dan Odie really didn't kill Joseph Laverair, that means the murderer might still be out there. I can't understand why this isn't available, and why the clerk won't tell me where I can find the information I'm looking for. He can't be tried again, right, But I'm saying, we think we know who did the crime. Oh, okay, So it would be lovely to just have some records to look at trial transcripts, see what physical evidence did exist. 00:23:43 Speaker 3: Maybe there was a hat we know of in the newspaper accounts. 00:23:46 Speaker 5: That's all we know. 00:23:47 Speaker 4: But maybe there's some DNA or some hair fibers that might match the guy. 00:23:50 Speaker 3: We think did it. 00:23:51 Speaker 4: But we'll go through all this and look through it and just see if we can find any clues as to where this stuff might be. 00:23:57 Speaker 14: So that goes back to you, guys, somebody has to sit with him. 00:24:00 Speaker 10: Yes, so the two options that you have. 00:24:02 Speaker 4: We're told someone will need to observe us if we're gonna view the files in the courthouse. This has never happened to me at a clerk's office before. We decide to get copies made so we can go through them without someone looking over our shoulder. But something's really bothering me about this case. It feels like it's been flagged. Why do they send down three clerks to tell us we're only entitled to view a partial file. They're not showing me these files because dan Odie was found not guilty. It doesn't make any sense to me. Kelsey and I sit and wait for the copies to be made.

00:24:39 Speaker 3: It's such a. 00:24:42 Speaker 4: Mysterious right now, I'm a fucking war path. Right We're gonna we're gonna go. 00:24:47 Speaker 5: We're gonna go. 00:24:47 Speaker 4: Into the Sheriff's department, and then we're gonna go the Stadt Joorney's office. You never heard of fucking something like this in Florida that did the trial transform funders every fucking single trial. 00:24:57 Speaker 15: I never looked into the transfer stas. 00:25:03 Speaker 4: Later that same day, we drive to the Osceola County Sheriff's office. We tell them that we might have some important information on an old cold case in their jurisdiction. They send two young detectives down to us, but they won't let us record our meeting. The detectives are friendly and they listen to what we have to say, but they don't seem to know anything about this case. Okay, we just left the Osceola County Sheriff's office. It's raining out now, and the two detectives in there told us that who are very interested. They told us that they were going to look through the file to see if they can find some physical evidence. 00:25:43 Speaker 5: I think that's good to. 00:25:47 Speaker 1: Reach a detective. Press one to schedule an appointment to regiter. 00:25:54 Speaker 4: The detectives say they'll get back to us, but never do. I keep calling for updates with no luck. After the tone, Please record your message. 00:26:06 Speaker 1: When you finish recording, hang up or. 00:26:08 Speaker 13: Press the pound key. 00:26:09 Speaker 11: For more options. 00:26:11 Speaker 3: Oh, good morning, Detective Miller. 00:26:12 Speaker 4: This is Gilbert King. We met with you a couple of weeks ago about that cab driver killing back in nineteen eighty seven, and Detective Cortes and I just wanted to follow up with you because I had a file of information on that particular case. I know we didn't really leave you with anything, but I love we're happy. Since we're having no luck accessing the files or getting any info from law enforcement, Kelsey and I try to find the defendant in the case, the nineteen year old kid who stood trial twice for this murder, dan Odie. 00:26:44 Speaker 16: So we did find an address for dan Odie that looked pretty solid. It looked like he'd been at that address for quite some time. It was all the way out in East Polk County, which we talk about parts of Lakeland being ruled, but it doesn't it doesn't compare to East Polk County. 00:27:03 Speaker 1: You know. 00:27:03 Speaker 16: We got out there, but it was just this long, straight road and I know we were there for miles, driving on this road for miles, and we didn't pass another car. There's no houses, no structures, you know. Our cell service was in and out. We got to the street dan Odie lives on and we saw it was a dirt road. It wasn't like a very well maintained dirt road. So we drove down the road. We found his address and we saw that there were dogs in the yard. Big dogs, and there was a flagpole with a Confederate flag on it. So it just it seemed a little like, hey, maybe we should give this guy a heads up before we like go through his gate and like have to approach these dogs and like knock on his door. It just it didn't didn't feel super safe. So we when and we like found a place to sit in the car. We started calling the phone numbers. 00:28:08 Speaker 11: You have reached the voicemail box of eight six three. 00:28:14 Speaker 7: Alright, which one was that? 00:28:18 Speaker 3: That's the first one. 00:28:19 Speaker 1: Let's say hello, Please leave the message after the cane. 00:28:25 Speaker 4: Nobody answers their phone anymore. I know, Hello, Hello, is this mister dan Ott? Mister Ott, my name is Gilbert King, and I am working on a criminal justice report. I was also pronouncing his name wrong. It's Odie Dan Odie first. So I don't know if you're around, but we would just love to talk to you for a few minutes if you're available. 00:28:51 Speaker 5: I'm available, all right. 00:28:53 Speaker 4: Could I stop by and just see you in about ten minutes or so. 00:29:00 Speaker 5: At the car when you hear again, I got an automatic gate. 00:29:02 Speaker 1: I hadn't lift you yet. 00:29:03 Speaker 4: Oh okay, all right, I'll call you right when I get in front of the gate, then sir, thank you very much. 00:29:13 Speaker 5: Fucking believe this. 00:29:16 Speaker 4: All right, we're gonna get out in the fucking porn rain, but we're gonna have a fucking interview. 00:29:21 Speaker 5: All right, let's just go over some questions here quick. 00:29:27 Speaker 16: I want you so much. 00:29:29 Speaker 4: We tried, we found your address and we had like down. 00:29:36 Speaker 3: But I actually when I started reading about your case, I couldn't believe what you went through. 00:29:43 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, twice, they tried you twice. 00:29:45 Speaker 16: Yeah, I know, Like my first impression when we first saw Dan was I was just a little scared. I was like, did we do we have the right idea about this? Are we sure this guy didn't do it? Because he's a big guy. He's six', four pretty like built to, like you, know, hefty like football player type of. Build and then on top of, that he was wearing a baseball cap with A confederate flag on. It you, know of, course The confederate flag hat was a key piece of evidence in this. CASE i, mean obviously not the hat That ten was, wearing but there was a baseball cap left in the taxi cab that they think belonged to the you, know the murderer who fled the. Scene so there was definitely a moment WHERE i Think gilbert AND i were probably thinking the same, thing, Like, oh, geez did this guy actually do? It do we have this? 00:30:53 Speaker 4: Wrong he invites us in and we all take a seat on his couch facing A. Tv there's also a big aquarium next to. Us you can hear its water pump in the. Background we Asked dan about what happened when he was arrested for killing the cab Driver Joseph. 00:31:11 Speaker 17: Lavere, well when when

they arrested, ME i was in the truck, and LIKE i told him in, Court i'm down there bying WE i was honest with. 00:31:27 Speaker 5: HIM i had nothing to. 00:31:27 Speaker 4: Hide dan tells us that after he's pulled over in his, truck police officers tell him to get. Down there's a picture of him in The Orlando, sentinel, handcuffed shirtless and splayed out on the ground with a rifle toting deputy standing over. 00:31:44 Speaker 17: Him and when they arrested, me that's WHAT i thought they was throwing down on me for is. Weed and when they had me on the ground AND i, said, well what are you arresting me for? 00:31:53 Speaker 5: It he, said first or great. MURDER i like to pass. Out what are you kidding? ME i JUST i couldn't get my. BREATH i was like. 00:32:02 Speaker 4: What dan didn't understand why police had been looking for. Him he wasn't really a, troublemaker and at the time of his, arrest all we could find on his record were minor traffic. Infractions after he was booked into, jail they fingerprinted, him drew his, blood and plucked hairs from his, scalp all for comparison with the physical evidence recovered from the taxi, cab and none of it Matched. Dan on the night of the, Murder dan was at a party with about a dozen other. People they all vouched For dan that he was with them all. Night no way he left and killed. Someone with his, alibi, witnesses and all the physical evidence that did not connect him to the murder Of Joseph. Lavere guards at the jail were Telling dan that he had nothing to worry. About he'd be going home. 00:32:54 Speaker 17: Soon BUT i was nineteen scared to deaths you, Know i'll fix fry for SOMETHING i didn't. 00:33:01 Speaker 5: DO i was. SCARED i ain't GONNA i was. 00:33:03 Speaker 4: Scared dan's father didn't want his son to be represented by a public. 00:33:09 Speaker 17: Defender, yes my daddy had a junkyard and he sold had a crusher to come out, there and so all the cars he had jumped him just to get me a. Lawyer because my daddy, says, son don't. Worry he, SAID i KNOW i didn't raise you this. Way he said this is, bullshit and he Said i'll spend every DOLLAR i. 00:33:32 Speaker 5: Got he, says you're not going down for. 00:33:33 Speaker 4: This dan's dad was able to raise enough money to hire a private. Attorney you'll never guess who they. 00:33:41 Speaker 17: Hired Jack evans said this is one of the most framed jobs he'd ever seen in his. 00:33:47 Speaker 4: Life Jack edmund the same lawyer who later Represented Leo schofield at, trial the guy in the western cut suit with the tiny waist and the life. 00:33:58 Speaker 17: Savers BUT i never thought much Of jack BECAUSE i always tried to call him in. JAIL i was, scared and he'd tell everything's all, right, signed don't worry about and hang. Up SO i called my. MOM i, Said, mom you got fire this. Lawyer i'm gonna. Die you don't. 00:34:13 Speaker 4: Seems Like edmund had a habit of dodging his clients until just before. Trial but the prosecution was certainly investigating their, case. 00:34:23 Speaker 11: But it still puzzles me as to Why. DAN i don't understand. IT i don't Even dan didn't even live In Intercession. 00:34:33 Speaker 4: City While dan sat in, jail people close to him started getting knocks on their. Doors one of them Was Tanya, dean who was Dating dan's. Cousin she remembers the night the cab driver was. 00:34:47 Speaker 11: MURDERED i remember the power going, out AND i THINK i was near the, area BUT i didn't see. ANYTHING i just heard about it after the, fact and then the detective came to the. 00:34:59 Speaker 4: House when detectives knock on her, door she's fifteen and pregnant with her second. 00:35:04 Speaker 11: BABY i can one hundred percent recall walking out with my child on my hip and the detective, saying we know you've seen, him and it, says see Who what do you? MEAN i didn't see. Anything you Seen Daniel? Odie you Seen? 00:35:25 Speaker 2: Dan? 00:35:26 Speaker 11: Doit? 00:35:27 Speaker 8: NO i. 00:35:28 Speaker 11: Didn't you're gonna tell us that you've Seen Daniel odie or that baby on your hip and in the one in your stomach is going to be. Gone you remember that this one hundred. PERCENT i will never forget that. Day his name Was Buddy. SHEPHERD i will NEVER i just got. Chills i'll never forget. 00:35:51 Speaker 4: That Deputy Buddy shepherd was a detective with The Osceola County Sheriff's office and he was the lead investigator on The lavere. MURDER i Asked tanya if she's sure That Buddy shepherd wasn't just warning her that she was under oath and if she committed perjury there could be consequences that would affect her. 00:36:11 Speaker 11: Children absolutely, Not that is not the, no absolutely. Not it was a direct, threat AND i was told to say THAT i seen. HIM i, remember BECAUSE i was a. MINER i had to have a parent present BECAUSE i had to go down and make a recorded. Statement AND i remember telling my, Dad, dad they're making me. Lie they're telling me WHAT i have to, say or they're going to take my. Babies he, Said, sissy they can't do. That they can't take your children because you tell the. Truth all you have to do is What i've taught you is tell the. Truth SO i went down to give a statement and the detective kept on, saying so tell, us tell us it Was, dan wasn't. It remember it Was? Dan and he would point to my stomach AND i, said, no it. WASN'T i didn't see. ANYTHING i didn't see. Nothing and he turned off the recorder and he slammed his fist down and he, says you're gonna tell us it Was. Dan do you remember WHAT i told. You you're gonna tell us it Was, dan. 00:37:31 Speaker 4: And this Was Buddy shepherd, Again yes it. 00:37:32 Speaker 1: WAS i was. 00:37:35 Speaker 11: TERRIFIED i was. 00:37:36 Speaker 4: Terrified tanya says she doesn't give in To Buddy shepherd's. Threats but it turns out there were other young mothers in town who claimed That shepherd tried to get them to. Lie one of them Was Debbie. 00:37:51 Speaker 17: Murphy, Well Debbie

murphy was their main. Witness that's the only thing they had against, me and she was pointing me. Out she said she's seen me over six hundred yards away at two o'clock in the, morning run on the cross the railroad. 00:38:07 Speaker 4: Tracks at, trial the state's witnesses point To Dan odie as the man they saw get out of the taxi. Cab but what's odd is that in the witness's initial statements to, police they had described the suspect as being somewhere between five foot eight and six feet tall and weighing around one hundred and sixty. Pounds that is not Dan. Odie at the, Time dan was six foot four and weighed two hundred and thirty five, pounds which is the average size of a tight end in The National Football. League he's kind of hard to. Miss Dan odie's friends are all testifying under oath That dan was with them all. Night the jury has to decide which witnesses are, lying and they can't do. It failed to reach a verdict and a mistrial is. Declared but just two months, later the state tries Dan odie, again. 00:39:10 Speaker 17: And everybody kind of didn't want to pursue, it except For Buddy. Shepherd Old Buddy. Shepherd he wouldn't letting it. Go he was just he was bound and determined to frame. Me he wasn't gonna let it. 00:39:21 Speaker 4: Go Debbie murphy takes the stand again in the second, trial but in the middle of her, testimony the trial grinds to a. 00:39:29 Speaker 5: Halt she came clean on the second. 00:39:32 Speaker 17: Trial she broke, down started, crying and they stopped and said what's. Wrong she, SAID i can't do this no. More she, Said dan Those i've never seen him that. NIGHT i Know dan from. SCHOOL i never Seen dan on the railroad tracks that. Night she, SAID i haven't Seen dan since we got out of, school and she told, him you, know, LOOK i was paid to say. THIS i was threatening with my kids IF i didn't say this Against Daniel. Rody AND i was, like oh, wow finally come. True you know at, Lease oh, MAN i tell, You i'll tell. 00:40:05 Speaker 4: You after the, Trial dan Says debbie apologized for lying about seeing him on the railroad tracks that, night. 00:40:17 Speaker 17: AND i told, HER i, understand you, Know i'm just glad you finally came forward BECAUSE i was fixing got electric chair for SOMETHING i know THAT i didn't. Do but she finally came forward told the. 00:40:29 Speaker 4: Truth there was a quick investigation into the claims That Buddy shepherd was threatening young mothers In Intercession. City despite the, allegations he was. Cleared On october, twentieth nineteen eighty. Seven Dan is acquitted of the murder of cab Driver Joseph. 00:40:48 Speaker 17: Lavere it was a great feeling because my mom had three stroke fries in, there. 00:40:56 Speaker 5: And when. 00:41:00 Speaker 17: WHEN i was choosing not of it no, more she broke down and cried and felt you could just see wake lifts it off over BECAUSE i was her, baby you, know of all my, BROTHERS i was her, baby and she she KNOWED i didn't do, it but she just

she really thought she had never Seen nick again like. This and when they said not, guilty just everybody jumped. 00:41:20 Speaker 4: Up But Dan odie had spent six months in, jail and he sat through two trials facing the death, penalty and despite being found not, guilty he still doesn't feel like his name has been. 00:41:33 Speaker 17: Cleared but it's just it's still to this. DAY i, MEAN i don't think about. IT i know what's right and what's, wrong AND i KNOW i didn't do it and all, This but when you meet people from back then that you see him somewhere on the street today and they kind of look at you, like oh, yeah, hey and you know they're, thinking did you do it or did you? 00:41:58 Speaker 5: Not BUT i just stare is a, way. 00:42:02 Speaker 17: Without a shadow of doubt THAT i could show everybody THAT i did not do. 00:42:08 Speaker 16: THIS i want to see that physical evidence. 00:42:13 Speaker 5: Too oh my. 00:42:14 Speaker 17: GOD i would love for y'all to do THE dna and find out who really did. 00:42:19 Speaker 5: IT i would just really like to know who did. 00:42:23 Speaker 4: It when we first walked in to talk To, dan we weren't sure what to, expect but listening To dan tell his story and talk about his, innocence it's hard not to think About. Leo they both want us to keep investigating their cases from thirty five years. Ago they want so badly to get to the, truth to have their names cleared so they can get on with their. Lives the state insists that they had the right man And Dan, odie but that the jury just saw it, differently so after his acquittal they don't investigate any. Further but if the state is, wrong that means that the murderer Of Joseph lavere may still be out there. SOMEWHERE i just can't stop thinking this has to Be. Jeremy it's twenty, ten twenty three years After Michelle schofield was. Killed more than five years have passed since the unidentified fingerprints in The mazda were matched To Jeremy, scott and Finally leo's granted an Evident sherry, hearing which he hopes will lead to a new. Trial his lawyers prepare to present the new, evidence the fingerprints And Jamie nillam's testimony about Ja jeremy's violence and how he brought her to the same spot Where michelle's body was. 00:44:05 Speaker 8: Found all of the things we found out about him. 00:44:09 Speaker 1: Made him the. 00:44:10 Speaker 4: Killer this Is Richard, Bartman leo's, attorney and. 00:44:14 Speaker 8: It certainly in discerated any any possibility That leo did. This if this case went to travel with all that, evidence it would have been mountains a doubt About leo being the, killer and it would have created all sorts of very clear pictures in my mind that not only wasn't It, leo but we knew who did. 00:44:36 Speaker 1: This it Was Jeremy. 00:44:37 Speaker 4: Scott Both jeremy And leo are brought from their respective prisons to the Pol County jail to attend the. Hearing this is the first time That jeremy And leo will be in the same room. Together leo's, Wife, chrissy has been waiting for this day in court for a long. 00:44:58 Speaker 18: Time in our, mine in my, mind there was absolutely no way to lose. 00:45:02 Speaker 5: This it's a no. 00:45:04 Speaker 18: Brainer you've got physical evidence now that was not in the case. Before so in anticipation of the, HEARING i bought him two, suits had them, tailored they were. Packed we were ready to. 00:45:21 Speaker 4: Go the hearing begins On may, fifth twenty, Ten Jeremy scott is called to, testify and he's questioned BY. C. J, benefield an assistant state. 00:45:32 Speaker 5: Attorney Jeremy Lenny. 00:45:35 Speaker 19: Scott, WELL i asked, you did you ever know a PERSON i Named Michelle? Schofield, no, Sir i'm going to ask. You did you Kill Michelle? Schofield, no, sir. Didn't are you aware that a fingerprint of yours was found in her? 00:45:57 Speaker 3: Vehicle, yes, SIR i. 00:45:58 Speaker 4: Am When Jeremy scott is called to, testify he denies Killing, michelle but the assistant state attorney doesn't really seem committed to getting a consistent story out of. 00:46:10 Speaker 3: Him tell me about your activities back. Then my activities WAS i. WOULDN'T i wasn't even stealing cars or. 00:46:20 Speaker 20: Tires my thinging was breaking, cars, steer stereo, systems. 00:46:24 Speaker 5: Speakers that was my. 00:46:26 Speaker 3: Thing how did you get transportation to do these? Activities jamie's Carr jamie was not aware of. It do you know about when you Met? 00:46:40 Speaker 21: Jamie april was, seventeen nineteen eighty. 00:46:44 Speaker 3: Seven how do you remember that? Date, okay my birthday is on a twenty ninth Of. 00:46:52 Speaker 4: April he's saying that he used his Girlfriend jamie's car to steal stereo equipment from abandoned. Vehicles But jamie And jeremy didn't even meet until about six weeks After Michelle schofield was. Killed the state lets these inconsistencies go. Unchallenged the state says they Trust jeremy's story about why his fingerprints were found in the car Because State Attorney John aguero believes. Him John, aguero the prosecutor with the electric chair tigh, clip is called as a witness to talk about his meeting With. 00:47:30 Speaker 20: Jeremy SO i had Mister scott brought back from whatever correctional institute he was in. 00:47:39 Speaker 1: To my. 00:47:39 Speaker 4: Office jeremy was brought To aguero's office in two thousand and five to talk about The. Prince the two men spoke behind closed. Doors there were no other witnesses and no tape. Recordings all we have to go on Is aguero's. 00:47:56 Speaker 20: WORD i told him that his fingerprint was found in a, car THAT i had put Mister schofield in prison for the rest of his life for killing his, wife and if he didn't do, IT i had to know. It THEREFORE i would give him. Immunity that it was more important for me to know the, truth than it, was. 00:48:22 Speaker 5: Than anything. 00:48:23 Speaker 4: Else John aguero is saying that in this one on

one, meeting when he Questioned jeremy about his, fingerprints he Offered jeremy immunity essentially confess to Killing Michelle schofield and you won't be charged with the. 00:48:39 Speaker 20: Crime Mister, scott AS i, said was. COOPERATIVE i think he fully understood, immunity fully understood that it was important to me that if he did this, murder it would BE i couldn't prosecute, him BUT i could let Leosco field out of. 00:49:01 Speaker 4: Jail i've asked lawyers and legal experts about the kind of full Immunity aguero claims he Offered jeremy in this closed door, meeting And i've been told it just doesn't happen like, this or it isn't supposed. To and it makes no sense to me Why aguero would do, that because If jeremy admitted under full immunity that he Killed, Michelle leo would be released from prison and no one would ever be charged With michelle's. Murder and on top of how little sense it, MAKES i can't find any documentation of this alleged immunity Offer leo's lawyers say they made repeated requests for proof of it, too and the state's response is. Telling they don't turn over any. Documentation they just argue about the number of Requests leo's lawyers, made so no proof of immunity is ever. 00:49:55 Speaker 3: Produced what was his explanations to the thing in that? 00:50:00 Speaker 20: Vehicle Mister scott indicated that at the time he was a. 00:50:04 Speaker 4: Thief aguero says he Looked jeremy in the eye and asked him if he Killed Michelle. Schofield jeremy said he, didn't that he's just a car stereo, thief And aguero believes. Him this is the same prosecutor who tried to Send Jeremy scott to the electric chair for Killing Donald, morehead arguing to the court That jeremy was a cold blooded criminal who couldn't be. 00:50:32 Speaker 19: Trusted after getting this information and the investigation was, complete did you do anything with? 00:50:38 Speaker 5: It, WELL i did not go any. 00:50:43 Speaker 20: FURTHER i made notes in my file concerning my, investigation AND i closed the investigation. 00:50:49 Speaker 3: At any time that you notify. 00:50:52 Speaker 21: Them they Believed jeremy his reasons for being in the car was. Credible believed that it's. 00:51:02 Speaker 4: Credible now everyone is left waiting and wondering if The Polk county judge presiding over this hearing will also Believe Jeremy. Scott Judge Keith spoto's ruling is released just six weeks after the. Hearing spoto, writes given Mister scott's past history and modus, operandi there is every reason to believe that he simply stumbled upon the car after her murder and after her body had been, hidden stole stereo equipment from her, car thereby leaving his fingerprints in the. Vehicle in other, Words Judge spoto Considers jeremy's past history and rules That Jeremy scott is simply a car stereo, thief that he's telling the. Truth as far as the. Concerned it's almost as if it was inconceivable To Judge spoto that a known murderer who was tried twice for homicide by this same office might also steal from his victim, afterwards just Like jeremy did after killing Jul johnson when he stole her, coins and just Like jeremy did after Killing Donald morehead when he stole his. Car Judge spoto Denies leo's motion for a new Trial i'm stunned AS i read this, opinion but MAYBE i shouldn't, be given that so many of the judges In Polk county come from The State attorney's. Office for, Example Judge, spoto who presided Over leo's, hearing worked as a prosecutor in The Tenth circuit Alongside John aguero for nearly a. 00:52:56 Speaker 15: Decade My, God i've BEEN i have been long about virtually everything with from the, beginning WHICH i thought was going to. Happen SO i feel bad about that personally misread. 00:53:11 Speaker 4: Everything Scott cupp thought at one point that the discovery Of jeremy's fingerprints In michelle's car would Spring leo out of prison in just ninety. Days but once again his intuition That leo would be given a new trial is. 00:53:29 Speaker 8: Wrong it's the greatest personal and professional regret of my life That Leo scholfield is still in. 00:53:35 Speaker 4: Prison Richard, Bartman leo's other. 00:53:39 Speaker 1: Lawyer no one really wanted to admit they were. 00:53:42 Speaker 8: Wrong no one really took the kind of close look we were urging them to. Take people got cooked on these mythological remembrances of evidence that didn't. 00:53:52 Speaker 4: Exist mythological remembrances of. Evidence that's. Right Judge spoto couldn't resist writing About Leo senior's. Premonition it's included in his summary of the state's, evidence Which spoto says is quote strong and sufficient for a jury to Convict Leo. 00:54:10 Speaker 22: Schofield how is that evidence of? 00:54:13 Speaker 15: Guilt it's. 00:54:14 Speaker 5: Not it's just some. 00:54:18 Speaker 22: Anomaly it's just something that comes. Up doesn't mean any can mean a million. Things guy's historyonic guys are. Nut he's not evidence of. Guilt it's not evidence of. Anything that's the urban legend. Stuff it just has its own you, know the snowball going. Down how many can't stop. 00:54:39 Speaker 4: It, meanwhile the physical evidence That kup And bartman do present About jeremy's connection To michelle's, murder it's dismissed by the judge as a happy, coincidence as if it was just bad luck For jeremy that his fingerprints turned up in the car of a young woman who'd been found dead in a dark place where he was known to hang. 00:55:04 Speaker 8: OUT i so the likely don't understand how a trial judge or appellate court could have looked. 00:55:09 Speaker 1: At what we came up with and said nothing to see. 00:55:12 Speaker 4: Here this disappointment hits no one harder Than, leo and by the time he learned of the judge's, decision he was still reeling from an encounter that happened right before he entered the. 00:55:25 Speaker 21: Courtroom i'm gonna tell you, this, MAN i should probably filter. It i'm not gonna filter. It i'm gonna let you

filter what you want to. 00:55:36 Speaker 3: Filter this. 00:55:36 Speaker 21: Is and If i'm wrong for this and you tell Me i'm wrong And Soviet i've been wronged for a long. Time i've been, WRONGED i would have been justified in my mind to be. 00:55:46 Speaker 4: Wrong it's the morning before the first day of the evidentiary. Hearing leo And jeremy are both brought to the jail across from the courthouse for the. Hearing they're supposed to be separated from each other since they're now involved in the same. Case So leo was grouped with other defendants who are doing court. 00:56:09 Speaker 21: That, day and so they had all the guys handcuffed two by. Two there's thirty three of, us So i'm the odd man, out So i'm not handcuffed to. Anybody and so there's a tunnel that goes under the road between the jail and the courthouse that they bring the inmates. 00:56:29 Speaker 5: To it's a long. 00:56:30 Speaker 21: Tunnel there's only one door, in one door on the other side, out and there's no doors on the. Inside it's it's a, concrete unfinished concrete tunnel on the. 00:56:41 Speaker 4: Road they're led through the door and start walking through the. Tunnel they march down and stop in front of the door that leads to the. Courthouse there's an officer there and he starts banging on the door waiting for someone on the other side to let them. 00:56:59 Speaker 21: In, meanwhile all the way back at the end of the, tunnel here Comes. Jeremy come, on another. Man he was by. 00:57:07 Speaker 4: Himself leo has Seen jeremy's mugshots. Before it's a face that's seared Into leo's. 00:57:14 Speaker 21: MIND i can see him way back, there walking, up AND i can see him walking, up AND i had enough time to stand there thinking my heart stots, racing AND i, SAID i know these people are not gonna just walk the murder of my wife right up in front of me in this, tunnel right. Here after all That i'm gone, through AND i just made a decision in my. Mind if they march him up and put him alongside of. Me That's god's. Will i'm gonna end it right here in this. Hallway and So i'm my drone is, pumping it's, pumping it's, pumping and march him up And i'm getting ready and all. Round i'm just gonna wrap his handcuffs around his neck And i'm gonna take him. Down and they're not gonna be beat me off of him until twenty something years of frustration and comes out AND i get you From, michelle and it's. Done now you can go ahead and put me in. Prison NOW i belong, there you know WHAT i. Mean And i'm not. 00:58:06 Speaker 3: A, murderer that's who they made. 00:58:09 Speaker 21: ME i, Mean i've had to fight for my life in here WHEN i first came in twenty two years, old young and white in the prison. System no dad's, coming no police, Coming nobody cares. You you have to do this or be raped or something stupid like. That so you know where your lines. ARE i know where my lines, are and you cannot cross that line without certain things. Happening if you're gonna watch the murder of my life and put him, upside that's a line you cannot. 00:58:39 Speaker 3: Cross just so. 00:58:41 Speaker 21: Happened they got him maybe ten feet away from, me and this guy up the top stairs turns around and sees, him and he knows and he yells, stop, stop back him, up back, him. 00:58:54 Speaker 3: Then yank him, back AND i, WENT. 00:59:00 Speaker 21: I just have this massive release of you, know because that was that was pretty. 00:59:06 Speaker 4: Scary in the basement of the, Courthouse leo says he waits in a holding cell with the other. Defendants because Of jeremy's violent, Behavior he's kept in an isolation cell right by the. Elevator the jail is short, staffed there aren't any correction officers down, there And leo's name is called over the. 00:59:28 Speaker 21: Loudspeaker scholfield approached the, elevator and So i'm, thinking, WELL i got to walk right by a. Cell now he doesn't know me From, adam but he knows WHO i am by. Name and this is WHEN i, knew BECAUSE i really wasn't. SURE i, MEAN i don't, know you, know what's the what's the percentage on it being a coincidence that this no murderer is forensically linked to my wife's car and he didn't have anything to do with, it and after everything we know about, him and my thought is if you are accusing me of doing something THAT i KNOW i did not. Do i'm gonna be at them bars WHEN i see you walk. BY i might not do anything, stupid But i'm gonna have something to. 01:00:11 Speaker 3: Say i'm gonna say. Something you got the. 01:00:13 Speaker 21: Wrong guy or something or. Anything i'm Gonna i'm gonna say. Something here's your. Opportunity SO i walk up there AND i go to the bars to the cell AND i stand there AND i look at him and he's sitting, there profile to the front of the cell and he won't look at. Me And i'm standing there waiting for him to look. OUT i need him to look at, me and he couldn't look at. Me he couldn't even face. Me AND i told, him know THAT i. Know, jeremy know THAT i. Know and he never says anything to. ME i knew in that, MOMENT i was looking at the murderer of my. 01:00:48 Speaker 5: WIFE i knew. 01:00:49 Speaker 4: It Bone valley is a production Of lava For Good podcasts in association With Signal Company Number. One our executive producers Are Jason blohm And Kevin. Wordiskak kornhaber is our senior. Producer Brit spangler is our sound. Designer Roxandra guidy is our, editor fact checking By Maximo. Anderson our producer and researcher Is Kelsey. Decker our theme, Song The One Who's holding The, stars is performed By Lee bob And The. Truth it was written By Leo schofield And Kevin herrick In Florida's Hardy Correctional. Institution Bone valley is written and produced by Me Gilbert. King you can follow the show On, Instagram, facebook And twitter At lava For. Good to see photos and documents from our investigation and exclusive behind the scenes, content Visit lava For good dot. Com Tom Slash Bone Valley, yeah