התמלול המלא של Deeply Well with Devi Brown - Breaking the Silence: The Importance of Family Histories with Nicole Russell Wharton

Breaking generational silence. 00:07:35 Speaker 4: Thank you. Yeah, you know, it's interesting just listening to you read the bio because so much of my work has been centered around helping young people heal. Yeah, And it was in understanding that I still had so much healing to do that I recognize my healing was bigger than just working on my childhood trauma and trying, and that I actually needed to extend a hand and support some of my family members that were struggling with their own healing journeys or didn't even feel capable or deserving of that type of work to be set free from some of the pain they were still holding. So it's a beautiful thing to sit here and have this conversation with you and talk about my adult work and talk about the work that I'm doing to master my own healing and just be able to take that back to the kids and empower them because so many of the children that I work with do not know their biological parents, and they're not able to do the family healing work, but they are able to break those unhealthy cycles, and they are able to start their own families and traditions and heal from a lot that was passed down to them, be naturally passed down to their children through the DNA, and so just equipping them to understand what they're carrying and to empower them to learn their bodies fully, mentally, physically, spiritually, so that they can have the tools to break everything through conversation. 00:09:20 Speaker 1: My goodness, I really want to settle in that for a second, because I think that speaks to so many people, you know, and I recognize it. As our understanding of healing and trauma continues to grow, our ability to get into more specific scenarios will get better and increase. 00:09:40 Speaker 5: You know. 00:09:41 Speaker 1: I know there are a lot of people that perhaps may feel very underserved because the language of the now is about family systems right and breaking generational trauma. But to your point, and that's just incredibly humbling and deep to sit in the understanding of if you had no relationship with your family, if you were adopted, if you were in foster care for a variety of reasons. How does one approach that work. 00:10:13 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting because I do have connections to both sides of my lineage, but I have a very silent side, and I knew going into this and sitting down to have these conversations. I could do it with my mother, and I could do it with those that were alive on her side of the family, but not necessarily with my father's, and so I had to do my own research. I was online, I was doing DNA testing, I was pulling up death certificates. I was doing everything I possibly could to make sense of the history and kind of using that information as an entry way to have conversation with my father and create this space where I could teach anyone that was willing and open to learning. And that actually helped me break through with a lot of my dad's family because they were so happy that someone cared enough to look for the information or to get the facts, because there were so many different stories told in their childhood that they didn't know what was real and what wasn't real. And so I really just want to empower people that it's not just about talking to who's here. It's also about using the tools that we have and getting online and doing the research to find as much information as you can possibly find through public records to put it all together. And that's what I had to do. 00:11:49 Speaker 3: Yeah, I so relate to that. 00:11:50 Speaker 1: I had a similar experience because I was raised by a single parent, but everyone else was gone, so no like living grandparents, no additional family. And it was truly through ancestry and twenty three and me that I was able to start getting records of things, and I remember knowing I wouldn't be able to access like one side of my family. I got a bunch of like birth certificates, and then I did astrology chart readings on all these birth certificates of people that had passed, And for me that was such a breakthrough because I mean astrology. We explore this a lot on this show, but gorgeous sacred science and birth charts never lie. But it was really interesting to see the train of trauma that came down into everyone's storytelling of what their birth chart said. But it was incredibly freeing, and it's like, yeah, that's such powerful advice because sometimes it is so easy to just experience the lack and in the healing journey that can feel compounded, right, It's like even more of what's missing or what I didn't have or what's not there, but we can piece things together about people or about ways, you know, repeating patterns that may have hit every generation on the way through. 00:13:08 Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think using some of that limited information to learn more about ourselves. And for me in particular, it was health that was the big like aha moment for me in twenty twenty two. As much as I thought I knew myself and I thought I knew my needs, I realized that I don't actually know my physical body as well as I think I do. I know what I can see, I know what I can feel, but there's so many other things. There's so many complex organs and things happening within me that I just didn't know. There were so many preventive measures and screenings that I just overlooked and didn't do because conversations weren't being had about health. And just in looking at the death certificates, it was like having a revelation like, Okay, so heart issues, this is something I need to pay attention to. This is something that I may carry, and so I need to be aware of that and in the choices that I make, make the best decisions possible so that these outcomes. What I'm seeing on this paper is not what my life looks like or how my time ends. I have something called thoracic endometriosis. Endometriosis is very common. Ten to eleven percent of women have it, probably more, but so many

do not go diagnosed. And thoracic endometrisis. Only one percent of women with endometriosis have it. And it is when the ENDO tissue travels to the lung and attacks the lung and causes a collapse. And endometriosis is something I've had my entire life, and I had no idea I had the symptoms. I felt them, I was aware of them. You know, with every mentrual period, I'm on the floor chron in pain. You know, I went to the hospital. I thought that the first day of a period was supposed to be so painful and that it was bad luck, Like I just you know, had it worse than most women. And that's just the cards that I was dealt. I didn't know that that was a sign, that was a red flag that something more serious is going on. And this isn't my teens. I was having these terrible, heavy, painful periods and I didn't know why. And now that I'd look back on my life after receiving a diagnosis just a few years ago, I realized I could have prevented my lung collapse. I could have prevented the seven surgeries that I had to have in a year's time if only I knew, if only the women in my family talked more about their pain and normalized conversation about pain that we didn't gaslight ourselves say like, oh, this is fine, this is normal, this is just part of it. This is something we're supposed to deal with because it's not. And once I recognize that I was carrying this chronic illness, the first thing I wanted to do was document everything that I was feeling, everything that I had been through, everything that I told the doctors prior that was dismissed. Because I wanted my niece. I wanted, you know, possibly my future children or grandchildren to have something to go back to in reference if they are ever in a place where they have these paints or these symptoms. I wanted them to have something where they can say, Okay, I'm not the only one, and now I know that I need to take this seriously and get checked out. 00:16:45 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that has been one of the most amazing things about right now, right like I feel like because even to your point, I know so many people listening right now can relate to that. It's one of the that and also neurodivergence are two of them, to just two of the many areas that we're just now getting research back on. And women are able to equip themselves with like knowing what that is or why this has always been different about me. And it's powerful, and it's sad, you know, it's powerful, And it's also so sad how limited study about women's bodies has been throughout the ages, but especially to that extent, our wombs haven't been studied until really within the last decade, but the last handful of years. And I think so many people and I'm so sorry, and I'm so glad you know and have the information about your body's design that you need and deserve. 00:17:40 Speaker 3: And I think, and I don't know. 00:17:41 Speaker 1: If this resonates with you, but I've just seen across the board so many people finding out certain chronic conditions with their wombs certain immune autoimmune diseases or different neurodivergence from ADHD to autism to many different things. You know, women in their thirties and forties are just getting this information. Yeah, and it's like exciting but also grievous, you know it is. 00:18:09 Speaker 4: Because it often we find out the information when we are desperate for the answers, and that usually happens when something goes wrong. So yeah, it's I hate that I had to go about it this way, but I am grateful that I am in the opportunity to storytell and to share my experience so that some of my family can heal, My elders can heal through it by understanding that what you're going through is not normal and they can go and ask for a second opinion and get support. 00:18:42 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:18:43 Speaker 4: You know, you're featured in the book and there's a chapter limited, Limited Dreams and Aspirations, and we talk about purpose and finding our purpose. And you know, I've always been so sure of what my purpose is. You know, I have always had this strong desire to help children, to be a voice for them, to empower them to How did that. 00:19:10 Speaker 3: Come to you? 00:19:11 Speaker 1: Because it is such a special thing to serve children and especially you do such deep work with them. How did you arrive there? How did you know? 00:19:20 Speaker 4: I think I think even as children, we can sense our level of empathy if it's stronger than others. And I was the kid who if someone was being bullied, I wanted to stand up for that kid. If someone was sitting by themselves in the cafeteria, I wanted to sit with that kid, and I wanted to ask him what he likes or what they liked to do, and what's their home life like. I was so curious about the people that are overlooked ever since I was a child, and I didn't know what my career would look like specifically, but I knew I want to help kids. And it wasn't until my mother, who has the biggest heart in the world, took in a young girl who's my sister. And she took in this young girl and it was the first time that I learned kids in foster care do not have someone to cry to in the middle of the night if they're having a bad dream. And I watched her struggle week after week, and my mom introduced comfort items, pajamas, bedtime stories, all of these things that she didn't have before age four, and she was still having these night terrors, and I saw what a difference it made for her, and I immediately just felt a sense of anger because I thought about all of the other kids that don't have the person to provide the resources, the comfort items, the ear in the middle of the nights, just hear about what were the monster saying to you or what was the bad dream that you just had, and so. 00:21:07 Speaker 1: Consistent love or care know where they're witnessing you over time and know you and have like vested interest. 00:21:15 Speaker 4: Yeah, And so for me, learning that the foster care system lacked that

type of support, I wanted to provide a service that taught the kids how to do the self work, how to self comfort, how to self soothe, because they might not have a person that's consistent, and if they do end up in a good home, maybe it's only for a couple of weeks or a couple of years. And so you know, that was the entire inspiration behind why I did Precious Dreams. But when I look back at my purpose that I'm so clear of, this is what I'm supposed to do. I now look back at my lineage and I look back at the roles the women played and my family and how I'm actually living their dreams. And yeah, my mother took in one girl, and I, because of the resources I had and the information that I had gained over time, was able to start a nonprofit so I could help thousands of kids. But if my mother grew up in the time that I had, with the same privileges, she probably would have done the same. So I look back, and there's this question you ask in the book, like who are you? And what I have learned today is that I didn't know myself because I didn't fully understand my DNA before. But now when I can explain to people who I am, so much of it is looking back and explaining what I carry and seeing it as gifts. 00:22:49 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:22:50 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the most gorgeous, like god intended place that we're supposed to land if we're. 00:22:57 Speaker 3: Lucky enough to you know, it really is. It's just And thank you so much. 00:23:01 Speaker 1: It was such an honor to join you on that journey and be a part of that chapter because I think too in what you described, and I know this is like settling beautifully and someone listening. Purpose is just so many things, but the core of your purpose is what you said about yourself as this young, highly sensitive, empathetic child that was picking up on the subtle energies and the undercurrent of all the things that were and said with everybody. And that gift, like that ability, that purpose touches everything. It touches your life as an author of many books, It touches your foundation, it touches your children and your husband and everyone in your life. 00:23:50 Speaker 3: Deeply. Well, I love that you brought. 00:23:55 Speaker 1: Up that point about your mom because I think over the last few years, I've had a life of experience working event wise and someone on ones with the silent generation, with the boomer generation, and a lot of what we talk about is space to grieve the generational barriers, right, space to grieve who you couldn't be as a woman, or as a man, or as someone of a certain cultural background because of the time you were born, and there were just so many barriers to I guess the way we're able to maximize purpose now where it can be a lot of things, or it can even be a desire to live that way. 00:24:38 Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's why I say, you know, I do this work from a place of privilege, Yeah, because I recognize that I also recognize that while we have privilege today, that's not something that we're guaranteed in the future. 00:24:52 Speaker 3: Oh, come on, talk about and Nicole, let's dive into that. 00:24:56 Speaker 4: I think a lot about like protecting our work and protecting our works words. Yeah, even this podcast. It's available everywhere today, right, But where will these recordings live in ten to twenty years? Will people still have access to them? I mean, we see books that are being banned and like, where will our stories live? So I literally have become a hoarder of books. I have fallen in love with shopping for physical books that tell every piece of my family's lineage or the African American experience in this country, because I know that future generations in my family may not have access to them in the future, and I want them to have a full picture, a full understanding of their history. 00:25:47 Speaker 1: God, it's just it's that's powerful and so important for us to think that way. And it's hard to think that way because it almost gives you, you know, just so much fear. 00:25:59 Speaker 3: But we have too. 00:26:00 Speaker 1: There was something and I wish apologies to whoever this is. I don't remember the exact name, but it was there was this post I saw that was educating on a woman, a black woman who back in I believe the seventies, started recording television and she recorded her TV for thirty years because she said till she died, Because she said, they're changing history in real time, and there's no one that is going to be able You're going to see it so fast and then not again, and there's no one that's going to be able to point out when they're trying to change our mind or change their stamps about things. And it made me think of the Mandela effect, which I don't know if you've heard of that, but it's this way that our brains work, where we all as a collective think we remember something that may or may not have happened. So in what you're saying, I'm thinking of that too. It's just like, yeah, who's to say, you know what someone is able to have access to, what they're going to pick up, how the narratives will be changed, even within literature or film or sound. Yeah. 00:27:08 Speaker 4: I think that's also why documenting is so important, Just documenting your child's experiences, your own emotions, as you are carrying life, as you are raising a child and being part of a family, because I think about survival mode, and survival mode is something that we're often in and we are so unaware. And while I was healing from my surgeries, I started writing the book. And there's a part in the book where I say I had this revelation to write this during my first solo shower and I was struggling to bathe myself because I had nerve damage on the entire right side of my body because of the lung collapse. And I read that and said, I had nerve damage. Oh my god, I comp completely forgot. There were so many parts of what I went through that I don't remember because my brain was just prioritizing

survival over memory. And so if I hadn't documented that entire experience, there's so much of the trauma that I would have forgot. 00:28:19 Speaker 3: Wow. 00:28:20 Speaker 1: Wow, How do you in real time bring this work into the life of your current family, including like your motherhood journey with your child. 00:28:32 Speaker 4: It's interesting because I have an eight month old named Cash. 00:28:36 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, it's the sweetest baby. 00:28:39 Speaker 4: Yeah, And so it's an exciting time. It's a beautiful, scary time being a new mom. But I think that I am so laser focused right now on working with those that are still here, people that I know have limited time, and so wanting to set my child's up for success, I've begun to look back and doing the work, the really difficult work with my mother, who I am trying to still convince that they're still healing to do and that you deserve it and you don't need to die with all of that trauma inside of you. And trying to convince my dad's side of the family to talk more, and trying to build the relationship and the unity between the younger generation and my cousin so that when my child grows up, he can look to both sides of his family and there are people there that are willing to talk and to you know, continue doing the work with him. 00:29:45 Speaker 1: It's such powerful, noble work. Yeah, Like it really is, like and it's hard and. 00:29:51 Speaker 4: It's hard, and I also don't want to like sit here and act like it's not. 00:29:55 Speaker 1: Oh, everybodys listening right now knows because on. 00:29:57 Speaker 4: This show we do the work. 00:29:59 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's hard. It's hard if you confront yourself in so many ways. But that's what I think is beautiful. When we get to a certain place in our work where some of that charge about other people not doing their work doesn't hit us so deeply. And that's what's so beautiful about you know this, this. 00:30:19 Speaker 3: Section of your life's work, because that is that is the work of our life. 00:30:26 Speaker 4: Right, It's like. 00:30:28 Speaker 1: We are not necessarily going to be able to change everybody. People don't want change, don't want it, and some people are not meant for it in this life if we can be honest, right, and I'm going to go back to my birth chart talks, but you know, it's not in everyone's path that they heal all the things in this life, and that is their right. 00:30:46 Speaker 3: But it's like, it's so beautiful. 00:30:49 Speaker 1: When we can just say within ourselves, I'm not in judgment of them, but I will keep trying, and I will keep holding the space and whatever way they're able to receive it. 00:31:00 Speaker 4: I think the best thing that we can do is offer the space and extend the hand, and if people know it's there, they can choose to come in, they can choose to open and if they if they don't, that's okay. I'm able to sleep at night if I know that I've tried, if I have not made

the effort, I simply can't. 00:31:20 Speaker 3: And yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:31:24 Speaker 4: I think, especially with my parents, I've learned through my own healing and the work I've had to do for myself, that there's no reason to point a finger at anyone and judge anyone for their mistakes or their shortcomings or their absence. 00:31:40 Speaker 2: You know. 00:31:41 Speaker 4: I went to see a holistic doctor a few years ago and he was doing a body scan. And I went to this doctor so that he could tell me what physical ailments I had and what I needed to be aware of. And he did this whole scan and then he said, you need to forgive your mother. And I was like what, And he's like, yeah, we can come back to it, but that's part of this. And then in the end, he said, who is the first person that taught you about love? And I said my dad? And he said, and you need to forgive your mother for not being able to do what he did. And I thought about it. I grew up in a single parent home with my dad. I did not grow up with my mom, and as close as I am with my mom, I have always held on to that anger from my childhood, not fully understanding why she left and why she wasn't there, and part of me was still angry because of it, and that was causing me harm and I didn't even recognize it. So I talk about that in the book, as well as having to admit to my mom, Mom, I apparently I am still upset and I haven't fully forgiven you. And I know that we can talk about it and I can get answers from you, but I also need to do some deeper work with myself to get to the root of this and figure out why I'm having such a hard time. And so you know, I had to do that to uncover it all and really figure out why is this holding me back so much? And I think being able to forgive her not only freed myself, it also freed her in so many ways, and then opened opened up the door for us to have dialogue about things she felt I was too young to understand. Now she could see that as a woman, I was ready, and so we can talk about her trauma and the reasons behind all of her decisions. And I welcomed those really difficult conversations with arms wide open because I didn't need to be upset with her anymore. I could recognize that she she wasn't present for many reasons, but she was doing the best she could with the tools she had. 00:34:05 Speaker 2: Yep. 00:34:06 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the biggest freedom. Yeah, that's the deeper layers of the crevice work. And yeah, the power too of stay in it, you know, because even our own perspective gets to shift and grow. 00:34:23 Speaker 3: You know. 00:34:23 Speaker 1: I found, like on my journey with similar dynamics with family members. It's like year one, in year two, the charge and compassion I had felt very different than where they felt in year three and four five of healing. And so every time you get to a new layer, there's a little more compassion you can come to the person that may have caused harm with and a little more neutrality and

like what you thought it meant about you, or what you thought it meant about their love for you. Yeah, and sometimes we're right and sometimes we're wrong. But the beauty is like staying in it, Yeah, and continuing even on the same thing that you've been healing your whole life, there's still more layers to it, you know, There's always more layers to it. 00:35:09 Speaker 3: Yeah. How has everyone in your life felt about the book? 00:35:15 Speaker 4: That's a really good question. And so the book is broken down into three sections. It's my mother's tears, my father's silence, and then there's a chapter where I do a lot of inner work, and that one is that section is speak or Repeat. And because I worked so closely with both of my parents on this journey, I felt we had gone through all of these things together and we had worked past them, and so when the book came out, I was excited for them to read it. And my mom was a mess the first day she listened to the audio book and she was just in tears at work, And I'm like, why would you listen to it at work? 00:35:54 Speaker 2: Mom? 00:35:56 Speaker 4: She's like, she was like, it hurts me so much to hear your side of the story because your side of the story is not like mine, and you were too young to understand my why. And it hurts me to know how much I've hurt you and how it's affected you as a woman in all of this work you had to do because of my decisions. And we're still working through all of that, and it's hard, but it's beautiful that I have the opportunity to work through it. And I see in my sister, who didn't grow up with her biological mother, that even she has had revelations with this book about letting go of some of the pain that she holds on to in recognizing that her mother didn't have her mother didn't have everything she needed to be the best mom to her, but her mother made the best decision and allowing her to live with my mother, her mother made the best decision in giving her children to people that could care for them. And if it wasn't for her mother, she wouldn't be here and she wouldn't be a part of my life or my family's life. And so I see her starting to have this sense of gratitude and forgiveness, and I just hope that it can do that for more people, because that's really the only way that we can set ourselves free from all of this pain that we're carrying. Yeah, wow, I think too, Like what I'm also hearing and what you're saying is like and the work continues even after the book completes. 00:37:51 Speaker 1: Yeah, it absolutely does, and it's like. 00:37:54 Speaker 3: New layers of it all. 00:37:56 Speaker 1: Yeah, in doing some of those deeper layers healing, How does your husband and your partner kind of see you in that or relate to that experience with you? 00:38:07 Speaker 3: What was his journey like, you. 00:38:10 Speaker 4: Know, what's really interesting. I have hoped, in many ways my journey and my work would inspire my husband to ask some of the hard questions. I ask a lot of hard questions, and I know you do too. And my husband always tells me he doesn't know. He doesn't know. You know, there have been people who have committed suicide and people who have struggled with mental health, and he doesn't know the full story on a lot of it. Yea, And I want him so badly to start asking, because I know at some point our son will grow up curious and deeper than that. Before I actually got pregnant, I said, we should talk about our what runs in our families. We should talk about mental health, physical health, bipolarity, like, let's talk about all of it so that I can have an understanding of what our son may carry. And that conversation made my husband a bit uncomfortable, and he's like, well, you know, we don't have to assume, and I'm like, it's not assumption, it's just preparation for whatever's to come, you know. I'd just rather be prepared to take care of whatever needs and to meet them. 00:39:29 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:39:29 Speaker 4: So I think my husband while he is the most supportive man in my life. He's not fully ready, but I think that with time he will be. 00:39:43 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's the beauty, right Like, thankfully there is still time. So yeah, whenever divine timing always prevails, I think on the healing journey. But I'm pretty sure it would be absolutely impossible for anyone in close proxy to you to not start healing, Like you'd have to coat yourself in armor to not pick up on those vibes and the and the tools and the gifts to be able to kind of dive in. 00:40:11 Speaker 4: Yeah, because those questions are going to keep coming. 00:40:14 Speaker 5: That listen, I'm gonna find a few new ways to sam that you're not done, yeah deeply. Well, how do you define generational silence specifically? Because that I think is really I just love that phrase, especially because not everyone necessarily. 00:40:37 Speaker 1: Many of us do, but not everyone has to always dive into what were the big t traumas? 00:40:41 Speaker 3: Right like or what was this? But it's really what like to. 00:40:44 Speaker 1: That to the nuance of just not even sharing anything, because I find sometimes like those are questions I've brought up with my own mom. I'm like, not only did I not hear anything? About your pain, or it was said to me with such a chipper tone, with just kind of like yeah, and then this horrible thing happened, and I'm like, wait a minute, yeah, but then something I shared with her, I said, I don't like you don't share your wins with me either. You don't share what makes life feel special to you or moments that you cherish and think about. Like all of that silence keeps us apart too, because I'm not given the opportunity to like know what's happening inside Yeah. Yeah. 00:41:24 Speaker 4: So so generational silence it's a term used by psychologists and sociologists that really refers to at least two generations of avoiding conversation around topics that make them feel

uncomfortable. And it doesn't have to be deep work. It could be avoiding conversations around money and finances, around religion, around violence. There's so many different things that we keep quiet about. There's so many emotions that we suppress and stories that we don't tell, and so the silence is in not sharing that in giving that gift of what was learned or not learned to the next generation so that they can make better decisions. 00:42:13 Speaker 1: It seems to be that that is a lot more normal in marginalized communities. 00:42:18 Speaker 4: Absolutely. Why so in this book, I looked back at my family, but at the end of the day, I had to look at the root of the issue and where was silence truly taught. And when I look at my family's lineage and I look at the experience of slavery, we were not taught that our feelings mattered. Our trauma and our pain mattered. The people who hurt us the most never apologized, and so conversations were not had about honoring anything that we were feeling. I mean, families were ripped apart and children were sold, and no one went back to the mother and said, I'm so sorry I had to do that to you. And so we were taught to just move on and to just move forward. And for generations, that was the coping technique that was passed on, to just let it go. Yeah, it's going to be okay, things will get better. But if you hold on to it and you make it a big deal, it gets worse. So just let it go. And we're finally out of place because of all the tools and resources that we have and all of the breakthroughs in science that we can understand what we're going through and create space to honor our feelings and our experiences and share these stories. But for many years our pain was overlooked and that was just part of the life experience and compounded. 00:44:01 Speaker 3: Just it's not like things got better. 00:44:04 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean, even I talk about in the book, I talk about breaking certain religious traditions and how unconsciously the generations of my family have always done that. I mean, when we look back at the time of slavery, black people went to church and they were taught to obey their master, and that is how you get in good grace with God. 00:44:32 Speaker 3: Oh Lord Jesus. 00:44:33 Speaker 4: And so you know, we were taught to obey and that is not in the Bible. Yeah, and there was so much unlearning that needed to take place. And even still, you know, and so when you look at religion and spirituality, everyone has a different approach to it. And I think finally now we're at a place of acceptance of understanding that it's a and we don't have to judge people for their own beliefs as long as they are following or feeling something that is good and is leading them in a good way. But that was generations of breaking those cycles of what we're supposed to do and what is being taught by one person or a collective of people that were looking for a following. 00:45:21 Speaker 1: Yeah wow, yeah some in some way what you just shared also made me feel so fortified and grateful to be on to be alive right now in a time where you have the luxury of quote unquote healing. You know, it's just when you really sit in the fibers of what you just expressed, it's like, you know, thinking back to even when people were transported here from Africa and what that registered in our DNA that still exists now that didn't exist. You know, it's like the depth of it is maddening. It's unfathomable, you know, and it's like, but also there's a freedom and realizing there are so many reasons, you know, so many of us are slaying the dragons were slaying right now in this way, and it's not because of personal deficit, right, Like, it's not because of like personal just you're so broken. We are carrying all of it, and we're the first generation to be able to really look at it, you know, so even if we don't get it all done, just continue to entest forward all of us, you know, like our work is to do what we can and to keep having the conversations, to keep trying, you know, to keep going back to that well of family with compassion and hope and curiosity. That's what I'm getting from all of this. 00:46:55 Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, to continue the conversation. And I think being in a time, living in a time where there are so many distractions, sometimes it could be difficult to have these deep conversations with our children, or we may feel that they are not fully understanding the seriousness of what we're sharing. And so I think even making sure you're having conversations in the right spaces, I mean going for a walk, having the talk in a car, being in spaces where there aren't screens, you know, so that there really is that one on one connection and your child's can hear you and process what you're sharing. 00:47:45 Speaker 3: Oh my god, I love that I have to have a confession to make. 00:47:50 Speaker 1: My son has thought that our TV doesn't work for like the last several months, but it works. 00:47:55 Speaker 3: I just keep telling them it's broken, so you can talk. 00:47:59 Speaker 1: So we can just I love that it's been amazing, like it's been so he never really gets screen time anyway, and I know that in and of itself is a privilege in a lot of ways to be able to not need a screen to kind of get other things done. And that is so hard for so many of us. 00:48:21 Speaker 4: It's hard. I'm doing it right now. Yeah, it's hard. 00:48:24 Speaker 1: It's hard, and whatever you can do, we're doing our best to navigate this world we didn't necessarily ask for or have a hand in shaping. When it comes to the way, you know, these electronics are rewiring our brain. But that's a whole other episode. So he doesn't have a ton of access anyway. But it did start to turn into kind of him watching a cartoon in the morning, or you know, being able to watch like still Water before bed, which shout out to Stillwater on Apple Plus, y'all, it's so good for the kids. But now I'm

just like, no, we can find things to do with our time, yeah, you know, or or it creates so much space for him to bring in his curiosity and his ability to create you know, what the conversation will be, and so yeah, that's yeah, it. 00:49:14 Speaker 4: Creates special It creates space for those core memories that he can look back on. I mean, how many memories do you have of whatever was happening around you while you were watching TV as a child. 00:49:27 Speaker 3: God, that's so real. You have no idea, no idea. 00:49:31 Speaker 4: I can remember smells, I can remember smells and sounds, but like everything else, Yeah, I was completely distracted. 00:49:39 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, I love that. 00:49:44 Speaker 4: Okay, you're doing a good job. 00:49:45 Speaker 3: Thank you. 00:49:46 Speaker 1: I received that. He'll have his own opinion when he becomes old enough, but. 00:49:54 Speaker 3: He will know I enjoyed him and he was loved and I tried really hard. You will know that. 00:50:00 Speaker 1: You know. I have one more big question for you, and then I want to invite you to share some soul work with the audience. But you know, I think something that might be going through everyone's head right now, especially if this is landing in, you know. 00:50:12 Speaker 3: A deeper way or a newer way. 00:50:14 Speaker 1: Of understanding family dynamic. As people are kind of mulling through some core memories or some themes in themselves, how can people begin to identify the way in which generational silence has affected them or the way in which they may have inherited some of that inherited trauma. You know, it may not be their exact experience, but something feels wrong. How do they begin to start that walk? 00:50:45 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I think recognizing where those blockages lie. And for me, I looked at my marriage, and when you're in a romantic relationship, or really any type of relationship, it's like holding a mirror to yourself, and so you are forced if you care enough about getting through all the things with that other person who is so different from you, you have to be able to explain yourself and explain your responses and your triggers and all of these things. And something that I didn't even realize was an issue. I was so protective of my money and keeping separate bank accounts was important to me, and I didn't know why. I didn't want my husband to see my spending habits. I didn't think it was any of his business. I was like, yes, we're married, but why do you need to see how I spend money? And I recognized it was this insecurity that I had around money because I didn't grow up with money, and I didn't know what to do with money once I got it. And so I married this man who was so educated and knew how to invest money and build equity, and I was just saving. I was putting money into a savings account, and that was all that I knew to do. And I was like, is something wrong with me? 00:52:14 Speaker 2: Is there? Like? 00:52:15 Speaker 4: What is this? And I looked at my parents, who both went through bankruptcy. I looked at my grandparents who were struggling to get by, and I realized that no one had taught me about money. We didn't talk about it, and even when I started making it, there was no one to turn to to say what do I do with this? How do I manage it? And so it's recognizing that a lot of our setbacks and a lot of our challenges stem from what we didn't know, and sometimes that not the lack of knowledge comes from generational the lack of generational experience with that thing. Yeah, And so I think being really honest about ourselves and being easier on ourselves, that this isn't just about you. It's bigger than you. There's a reason you don't know, there's a reason you don't know better, right, And so now you can do the work to figure it out, but you can also find out why you didn't know. And that's really where I've been over the last few years, is like, why didn't I know? And now that I do, I can do better, but I can also look back at my parents and say they didn't know and that was okay. 00:53:44 Speaker 1: Brava, yeah, wow, Yeah, You've been doing the deepest, deepest layers of work and it's going to bear so much fruit in your family tree. 00:53:56 Speaker 3: I hope. 00:53:57 Speaker 4: So it takes a lot of honesty and accountability, and it takes a lot of vulnerability, and that those are three things that I have been really working on channeling for the last three years. Is just being so honest with myself and accepting that I am this imperfect person having a human experience, trying to figure it all out, and I make mistakes and I may have hurt some people as well, and I will do the work to get better. If I want other people to do the same, I have to give myself that grace. 00:54:38 Speaker 3: Gorgeously said yeah a Shay, Yes, yes, yes, God, thank you. The last thing I will ask is if you would share with our audience a little soul work. So it's a way to integrate the episode. So whether that is one of your personal tools or practices, one of your favorite quotes, some self inquiry, anything to help better integrate and kind of really sink into the savoring of this episode and whatever the next step may be. 00:55:14 Speaker 4: Set the tone every day, in every space, set the tone. I remember seeing on social media something about winning habits, and a couple years ago, when I was really struggling with my mental health and going into depression, I started waking up and choosing what I believe were my winning habits, and that was either starting the day with writing, walking, or working out. And if I did at least one of those things, even if for ten minutes every morning, it's set the tone and put me in a better place to respond to whatever challenges or chaos may arise. I was ready because I would start the day setting the tone with a winning habit. And I think it's the same thing with energy. Sometimes we have fear around how a

conversation might go, how our needs may be rejected by others in the workplace, and our relationships with our family, and it's setting the tone that I am walking in this space to give good energy, and I am walking in this space to share my needs, and if they are not met, they are at least heard. And so I would say, always set the tone. 00:56:46 Speaker 3: I love that, I love that, and if they are not met, they are always heard. Yeah, set the tone. 00:56:56 Speaker 1: That's good. 00:56:57 Speaker 4: Thank you. You set the tone everywhere you go. It's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing to experience. Anyone who's ever met you knows. I was actually just talking to a mutual friend of ours, Erica, and she was saying that when you walk into a space, you just carry this light with you, and that is setting the tone. You know, you lift the spirits of others when you walk into a room. It's a gift, but it's something everyone is capable of doing if they're intentional about it. 00:57:28 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for saying that, And I really receive that, and I just echo that too. 00:57:35 Speaker 1: All of us can do that for ourselves. All of us can find the space to do that for others too, you know. And it's like the more we do the work, the more space there is to like light a fire for yourself inside. And then it's not a lot of work because you're just showing up in your own warmth that you always hold. 00:57:58 Speaker 3: Yeah. Really beautiful. Book. 00:58:02 Speaker 1: Breaking Generational Silence, A Guide to disrupt unhealthy family patterns and heal inherited trauma, by Nicole Russell Wharton. 00:58:10 Speaker 3: It is available. 00:58:11 Speaker 1: Everywhere audiobook, physical copy, kindle copy, all the places that you get books get to the deeper layers of the work. And you know, I want to say what I think is so special and powerful about this book, and I think could even be the position or statement, is that it's the first in the things that I've seen, it is the first book I've really seen be able to create the bridge to community without yelling that it's about community, right, And I think right now, as people do their own internal work and investigation, there is that kind of void space where you're like, how the hell do I go back into the world, or how do I stay around my family that also hurts me a little, or there are all these things that are so hard to figure out when you think you have done your all of the work. And I think this book really beautifully gives a deep understanding of what it is to be in healing and bring that back into. 00:59:19 Speaker 3: The spaces that you love the most or. 00:59:21 Speaker 1: That are the most significant in your life. And that is the harder part, but it is the most beautiful part when you get to get to this point of doing the work. 00:59:32 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think thank you for saying that, because a lot of my work was centered around self, and it was because of a response needed to deal or to cope with the trauma for the kids that I work with at the foundation, or even for myself telling myself when my mother was gone that I didn't need anyone, that I was enough and I was going to to create this life for myself and I I am the only thing that I need. And the revelation for me was that I don't fully understand myself without being in community with others. You can't fully heal in a room alone. 01:00:22 Speaker 3: That's it, that is it. There is only so much understanding you can unlock in a silo. Wow. 01:00:32 Speaker 1: Yeah, yep yeah, Nicole, thank you so much for joining us. 01:00:39 Speaker 4: Thank you for having me. This is beautiful, such a privilege. 01:00:44 Speaker 1: Check the show notes of this episode. You'll be able to connect with Nicole's Instagram page, her website, and a link to purchase this book now now now scroll down into the show notes, get set up with all the info. So grateful and so grateful for you listening and from home. I am so glad you are on this journey. I am so glad you are doing this work, and I am so grateful I get to play a very tiny part in that God blessed, no mistay say. The content presented on Deeply Well serves solely for educational and informational purposes. It should not be considered a replacement for personalized medical or mental health guidance, and does not constitute a provider patient relationship. As always, it is advisable to consult with your healthcare provider or health team for any specific concerns or questions that you may have. Connect with me on social at Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram, or you can go to my website Debbie Brown dot com. And if you're listening to the show on Apple Podcasts, don't forget. Please rate, review, and subscribe and send this episode to a friend. Deeply Well is a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect Network. 01:02:03 Speaker 3: It's produced by jacquesse. 01:02:05 Speaker 1: Thomas, Samantha Timmins, and me Debbie Brown. The Beautiful Soundbath You Heard That's by Jarrelyn Glass from Crystal Cadence. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.