התמלול המלא של Why Pre-Prep As A Natural Bodybuilder? | Brandon, Rachel & Jacob EP.2

things happening in the world at the moment and you know, wanting to stay on the error on the side of caution, I suppose. So that'll be really nice to do that there and then come back and do a show on home soil here in beautiful Pality. So I'm good, just BK: ⁓ Yes. Rachel: Ticking the boxes, pushing where we need to, but pulling where we need to as well. And it's really interesting to make up, I think, that you said about, you know, training with somebody else. And I think part of the success in doing that is having someone to train with, sure, absolutely, but having someone who knows when to make you push and when to make you pull. I've seen people try to train with Brandon before, ⁓ who just want to pull him through every set. BK: Mm. Rachel: in terms of like the assist, the assist, the assist. And it kind of loses, you know, the point of what you're trying to do. So I think that's a really important point is having a training partner who knows exactly what your capacity is, where your sticking point is, and pushing you through that. So that's ⁓ I think a really important point. But I'm good. I'm good. It's ⁓ all good in the hood as we we lead up to to show one and we go back to back for about four weeks, which is really exciting. And ⁓ BK: Mm. Rachel: Some travel in there as well. But ⁓ awesome. Let's move to what's been happening in ⁓ recent bodybuilding news. We've got a few shows that have happened across the weekend, including of course WMBF Malaysia, which was some very cool talent for the especially those classic physique boys were very, very impressive. ⁓ IFBB Canada as well. BK: Mm. Jacob - Ebay BK: ⁓ yes. No ⁓ no no pro show for the women with IFBB Canada, but there was the classic physique, which I think was the the center stage. There was only four guys, but ⁓ no, sorry, five guys. However, they were all pretty high caliber athletes. and it was two guys that competed in the show last year. Rachel: Mm. BK: Yeah. Jacob - Ebay BK: went up against each other again and it went the other way this time. So this this gentleman here, he came first last time. I actually I mean from the photos, I quite liked his physique. ⁓ and then there's Toyton, he's maybe a year or my age. Pretty impressive. ⁓ mister Chris Asseto's son, and then the gent that won this time round. BK: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. ⁓ it's exciting bodybuilding. Yeah. Yeah. Jacob - Ebay BK: ⁓ and yeah, it got a lot of attention which is awesome for natural bodybuilding. And then there was also I think men's physique pro show as well. and yeah, it was it's it's cool to see, you know, like all whilst IFPB maybe don't have the laws and legislation that we maybe would like for it ⁓ with respects to how many years drug free people are or meant to be. BK: It's impressive. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jacob - Ebay BK: they're still putting on good shows and promoting natural bodybuilding. BK: Yeah, definitely. I mean I didn't follow up super close, I'll I'll admit, to the IFB in Canada. ⁓ I was paying pretty

close attention to the WMBF Malaysia and I gotta say it's they had a pretty decent show, which is lovely. ⁓ I don't I don't wanna bring up some of the stuff there, but there was obviously some drama in Malaysia, which it pains me because I love bodybuilding and when there's drama in bodybuilding, it i it's it's not good for the sport as a whole. We're here to come together for the sport we love. And I was really stoked to see that they had a good turnout there. ⁓ and Y yeah, so overall I I got a soft spot for that show, I love it. And ⁓ they did a really good job with it. I think next year they've already organized the dates a little bit later in the year, which will be nice for those of whom want a progression towards worlds because holding out from August to November twenty is a virtual impossibility. ⁓ so I think they're they'll we'll have a some good traction with that show and obviously the proximity to Oz as well. Rachel: Mm. BK: And ⁓ s the surrounding Asian countries means that they'll they'll pull over some some competitors from across the board. And I think it'll be a very big show for ⁓ next year. But it looked like a a good turnout. Classic guys were were certainly on. Really across the board. It was great to see. Rachel: Hmm. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Jacob - Ebay BK: Yeah, that guy on the left there looks shredded. Very grainy. BK: Yeah, he's in good shape. Grainy in the front, not so much from the rear, from the shots that I saw. But everyone's got their spot. But yeah, he looked great. Jacob - Ebay BK: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, awesome. BK: ⁓ great. And ⁓ outside of that we also had, I think, the BOB show. Well, I don't know if it was last week and the week before. That was ⁓ in Korea. And I still don't know if the BOB is best of the best or Battle of the Bodybuilders, but ⁓ it's an affiliation with the WNGP, so they are a tested organization over there. And yeah, it it's look in typical Korea fashion, it brought Jacob - Ebay BK: Real. Yeah. BK: A huge I I couldn't really find a feed where I could really soak up what's going on there, but the volume of competitors on stage looked I looked stellar. So yeah. Really cool bodybuilding over there. I at the standard I couldn't really get a too much of a gist. I was looking at iPhone sort of photos. And in typical sort of career fashion, the ⁓ you know the the s the style of of tan they use. They love their top coats like the ⁓ it's like Dream Tan-esque tan, the sexy U tan. It's a little bit different to sort of the more conventional pro tan you would see in the IFBB, etc. But everyone l looked great ⁓ from a tanning perspective. I'm I'm quite a fan of that that kind of look. ⁓ so yeah. Jacob - Ebay BK: B, did you have a similar sort of tanning process with your show, was it in Taiwan, your IFP V show? Rachel: Mm. BK: Yeah, If BB standardized, doesn't matter where you go, they gotta use ProTan. ⁓ although the manner of which they apply it was a little bit different. So in ours it's a three-day process, which is an absolute pain in the backside. But to be fair, it does provide a lovely finish. And in Taiwan they wanted to do it all on the one day, and I went, ooh, we're going to the other extreme. Can we please do one coat the day before? So I walked in the day before, got them to do a coat, and then on the day I just another coat, another coat, another coat, another coat. Yeah, cool, now I'm happy with that colour. So they were very accommodating. But the Dream Tan is sorry, yeah, Pro Tan, it's probably one of the best tanns I've ever had. I've I've really loved it. Rachel: I gonna say that's what the NPC Barley show this year i is doing 'cause I recently just booked my tan and it's all the day of the show. Yes. So I'm like, okay, I won't be nervous, it's fine. but yeah, I mean overall like yeah, it's always a really good colour. There was something I was gonna touch on from that, but prep brains ⁓ eluding me at this point in time. ⁓ BK: Mm. Jacob - Ebay BK: Day off. Okay. Yeah. BK: Hmm. Rachel: Something that you just brought up there, Jacob, because I did notice that this was released this week was the fit model addition to WMBF to start from twenty twenty seven. I believe it is Henry. It's interesting category. Jacob - Ebay BK: Mm. Interesting. BK: ⁓ gosh. So the Yeah, it's be really interesting to see the introduction of this. you know, WMBF seemed to always just be late to the party when it comes to this kind of thing. you know, even when it comes to say classic, they were losing out on just such a big market share by not having classic. And I know their stance was we don't need classic. Bodybuilding is inherently classic, and I get that. But when they introduced that, I mean it was amazing for them. Rachel: Mm. BK: And obviously Fit Model as well, I think we're seeing a lot of the other natural organizations embrace this this category. ⁓ in fact WMBF for Fit Model is probably one of the the forerunners there, but for Classic they're a little behind. So it's gonna very interesting to see as to how this this goes, ⁓ and what what they wanna see. Because the first two seasons, it's it's always a matter of feeling it out. They've got their cr key criteria here, and there's usually quite a bit of diversity in the look and then it's sort of and a lot of category creep where usually the standard increases to a point and then it sort of maintains. So it's gonna be interesting. Rachel: Mm. Jacob - Ebay BK: Yeah, it generally happens a lot like that. I mean you look at classic physique in the IFPB in the early days and it was you know it was so much different to what it is now. ⁓ and you know, even as it progressed they had to tighten up and change weight caps, very much like men's physique too. so yeah, I think I think you it's almost like the fitness BK: Yeah. Jacob - Ebay BK: ⁓ social media world, this concept that comes up every maybe five years comes in and the pendulum swings really hard one way, then it comes back and then it finds

that middle point where things sort of stay and normalise. But do we think they should have looked at wellness, or they should have added both instead of one or the other? Rachel: Mm. BK: Yeah. Mm-hmm. My personal bias is wellness only because it it see, look, it's hard to if you're looking at this picture here, it's hard to know. Is this what you want to see at worlds? I don't know. But I would say like we're Yeah, you know, it's credit to to the to the ⁓ the model. She she looks lovely, beautiful, etc. But it's if it's real, it could be AI. But the thing is is this, is if that's what you see wanna see at world level, I'm like, it's Jacob - Ebay BK: Mm. If it's real. BK: you've really lowered the barrier to entry massively. I would love to see wellness personally because it's just something so different. Because this here is like a bikini athlete that's fifteen weeks out. Simple. But wellness to me is okay, that's freaky but in a different way. And y you've got such a skewed definition of symmetry, I just I think that would be amazing to see. Exciting to watch. What do you guys think? Rachel: Hmm. Yeah. Jacob - Ebay BK: Yeah. And I I think there's a big audience for it too when you look at the popularity among other federations. And if that's where the primary I mean, I'm speculating here, but the primary decision has been to catch up slash integrate a more holistic perspective of what bodybuilding is with respects to other federations, then I think maybe wellness would have been the first thing they should have added, or they could have added both at same time. Rachel: Hmm. BK: Mm. Rachel: Hmm, I think we walk a fine line. ⁓ in all honesty, I think everyone's got their preferences, and I'm all for giving people opportunity in terms of you know, especially if they've never competed before and they don't really know where they fit. And we do have those types of athletes where they kind of, you know, they're not lean enough for one category, but they're got too much density for another kind of thing. ⁓ and I think you know, adding these is is definitely sufficing that criteria. But at the same time, like the standard is different everywhere and that's a frustrating point for athletes, it's a frustrating point for coaches. I mean, just even look at bikini in WMBF, for example, like it's different in Australia compared to in in Southeast Asia. And that's obviously you know, everybody's built differently, ⁓ et cetera. So I'm often giving people opportunity, but I do like the you know, I suppose like I I probably align BK: Yeah. Rachel: a little bit more with Brandon in that I like the how really crazy you can get with some of these wellness categories. ⁓ BK: Yeah. I mean look, WNBF in general I think does a pretty good job in standardizing their judging criteria. There is there does seem to be a some what of a difference when it comes to the general shape of certain populations around the globe. I suppose what Rachel was saying in part of her comment

there, but ⁓ yeah. Wellness would be pretty cool. And I wouldn't be surprised if we see it come in in the next sort of couple years as a means of just remaining competitive within the forever-changing landscape. Because even if we look at those who attend the gym now, let's say let's say females in the gym, it's very in vogue to build a big set of glutes, etc. So I think wellness right now is like what classic was five years ago for for for females. It is Jacob - Ebay BK: Yeah. BK: Everyone wanted to all the men wanted to have this aesthetic look and pose like this, beautiful. There is this wonderful new category classic. I think for women, every wim woman these days, you know, when I was coming up, everyone had this thigh gap, it was cool to have small legs, whereas these days most women want to have big lower body, big glutes, etcetera. Wellness could could for the right person fit. So we'll see. Jacob - Ebay BK: Mm. Rachel: ⁓ Jacob - Ebay BK: ⁓ I'm interested to hear what you guys think because I've heard Bob the president talk about this and sometimes a a different look might win at a certain show, but more as a product of what's actually on stage. So if the quality isn't super high, it's hard to find the quote unquote correct look because you've got an apple on your left, a pear on your right, and then a banana down the middle. They're they're all very different looks and trying to find whatever that right balance is for the federation or sorry, the category is quite hard sometimes. Rachel: Mm. BK: ⁓ yeah. I I mean it's it's it's particularly challenging at the amateur level. Because as you s as you mentioned, you'll have times where yeah no no one fits the criteria. It's who fits the criteria the least worst on the day. And it I think this is where the organization at the level of the promoter probably should reserve the right for when they give out pro cards as well. Because contrary to to popular belief, having a pro card can actually ruin your career. So you imagine if you are someone of whom turns pro at a show like that, where you fit the criteria the best in the day but still don't really fit it, and now you're going to try and find your way in the pro lineups where everyone is on on on It could deter you from the sport or deter you from the federation. So it's a bit of a hard balance there for what they do on that front. But yeah, definitely it must be challenging to judge when no one fits the criteria. Rachel: Mm. Yeah, definitely. And I think there's a really important I think couple of comments that are made in that in terms of you know, lifetime natural versus show natural. ⁓ i in regards not I not just to that category, but across all categories in terms of the federations. You know, we're looking at IFBB natural and their bands, which I'm very familiar with now having just registered for a bunch of different shows in terms of, you know, two year ban, ⁓ if you're found to have substances in your system, ⁓ compared to WMBF, which

is a completely different criteria. So I'm curious to hear what your thoughts are about that type of distinction coming into shows. BK: Jacob, what do think? Jacob - Ebay BK: Well, I've heard a lot of people say I F B B specifically in Australia is gonna take over within the natural scene. ⁓ so there might be a reduction in total competitors in the A and B A A and C season, sorry, and an increase in that middle year of the season for IFBB. I think there's good reason for that. More around production, but I I don't think anyone can with anyone with a really big passion for natural bodybuilding can say with you know, with their whole heart that a three year drug free rule or a two year ban or whatever it is, because I remember at one stage it was even like you get a f you get a chance or something initially. You get yeah. It's like, you know, it's okay. Come back and try again, you know, you can maintain your pro carb, whatever it is. And I I'm not BK: There is, yeah. Jacob - Ebay BK: quite ⁓ on board with that and I think if it is to have longevity it really needs to step up its game. I think a lot of big figureheads are talking really big things about the natural federation for IFBB. Whether IFBB actually sees it as its own entity or more of a stepping stone into the enhanced realm is a different question. Rachel: Mm. Jacob - Ebay BK: and I still believe that it's probably more just a stepping stone to create some revenue and give athletes again that that pathway into the enhanced realm, which I I'm not sure I'm a huge believer or advocate for. BK: Just give you my two cents on that, right? Rachel: Mm. BK: I I I believe t a couple things. One is I'm in agreement with you that I believe that the IFPV viewed the natural side of things as a pathway to the enhanced realm and we've actually seen this play out in action even within the now formative years, right, of the the natural side. When we look at say Patrick of whom's Last name eludes my mind from Germany and he's obviously Deutsch, very good friends with Daniel Kubick of whom I had the pleasure of conversing with when I was in Denmark. And Daniel is a lifetime natural and he will stay that way from all my conversations with him, very passionate about it. Really good friends with Patrick. But as he put it, he's like, you know, he turned pro as a classic competitor. He's like, now what? What's he gonna do? Compete? Where can he compete naturally? Nowhere. Jacob - Ebay BK: Twish. Rachel: Mm-hmm. BK: So he's now has the opportunity to go potentially to the Olympiads. You think he's gonna be competitive naturally? I mean he's an incredible athlete, but no. He's gonna have to go enhanced, so he's going enhanced. And he's very open about it on social media. So it's like, we're seeing this play out. I don't think the IFBB is passionate about natural bodybuilding. It's just a way, and that's where I I have a bit of struggle with it. I have a struggle with a few levels, but one level's there is that because I'm passionate about natural bodybuilding. I want to show you what you can do in natural bodybuilding and if you and show you there's more a a la a higher ceiling than you think. So let's just stay natural. I I love the enhanced guys. If you want to go that way, do that. But the goal for me and for us in BK Conditioning isn't to say, like you let's create a pathway to enhancement. Our goal is let's crank this. Natural body or anything, right? So I see that as a problem. The second thing is I think if the IFB are not careful, I'm of the belief that it will descend into chaos in a similar manner to that of the Muscle Mania. I don't know if you guys remember that, but the Muscle Mania was a natural organization. They had big brand deals in the United States. They were televised at one point. They needed to look natural. That was when things were very under wraps, with you know. drug use. So they were tested but not really tested. And it was a bit of a wink wink scenario. Anyone who looked at these athletes knew that I have belief in what's possible naturally, but that we're we're we're talking crap. So if they're not careful, given how lenient they are with their drug for you know testing, they're going to end up in a situation like that where someone takes the absolute piss and then that sets a precedence amongst competitors that that's how the organization Rachel: Mm. BK: Organization operates, that's how you do well in this organization, and then what you're left with a phony national organization. The thing is, real nationals will see through that and they will divert their energies where their ethos aligns best. And I can see that coming back to those natural, other natural organizations, not to put a preference out there. So That's my stance. Then I have one of these big blue cards here. And it was really cool to compete there. But s it it's the reality of the game, if you're actually fashioned about natural bodybuilding. Jacob - Ebay BK: Right. Rachel: Yeah. Well that's that's the thing. Even as an IFBB pro now, Brandon, in the natural realm of things, we've looked at shows for you as we've tried to plan out your season. And there's not many. A and and it makes it difficult. Like where do you go with that? And, you know, if you compete somewhere else then w yeah, that's it. But if you compete somewhere else, then, you know, you lose that a as well. Like it's BK: None. Canada. Jacob - Ebay BK: Yeah. Rachel: It's really two sides of a coin that you've sort of gotta contest with. And we came to that decision when you competed last. We sat down and we had the conversation about, you know, okay, if you were now to continue on, like that would be potentially not giving the Federation the opportunity that it has at this point in time, right? There is a massive opportunity to now capitalize on the natural stream per se and and even a responsibility, I I would argue, right? Being a premier BK: Mm-hmm. Rachel: Premier League, like there's this

opportunity for them to now go, Okay, well, like our natural athletes, like let's cultivate this, let's support it, let's really dig into what it means to be a natural and and support that rather than you know, having this sort of slap on the wrist two year bang kind of thing, and as you said, a bit of a pathway to perhaps the ins enhanced side of things that makes it very difficult for sure. BK: Well, we'll see what they do over the next bit of time. They might do some amazing things. But I mean, my best advice to anyone who's coming up in natural bodybuilding is don't chase pro cards, chase mastery. you look across the timeline and you know, even in my career, I've won this pro card, ⁓ lost it due to politics, competing somewhere else, re-won it, blah, blah, blah. The pro cards are cool to to chase down. The sensations of of Rachel: Mm. BK: Taking home that pro card is amazing, but it's ephemeral in nature. Your goal should always be mastery. So I mean, I don't have any ego about competing as a natural ⁓ amateur, sorry, as an amateur again. ⁓ I just want to compete, so I don't really mind. But ⁓ I understand moving forward, Jacob, there was talk. You could speak to this a little bit later, ⁓ about maybe competing next year, in which case you'd be probably coming into a pre-preparation. Rachel: Yeah. BK: phase at some point will lead up to that as am I. And I know that today we wanted to dig into a bit on the pre prep. ⁓ I'll let Rachel take it away as to roughly what that phase entails and we'll push on from there. Rachel: Yes, the pre-prep phase. I think there's ⁓ it's such a cool chat to have because there's a lot of conversation about it. Now I I don't know about you guys, I've had athletes where I've had to run a pre-prep with them and ones where I haven't and it really is based on a few components in terms of yes, where they sit body mass wise, what their look is like, where their head spaces, etc. Jacob - Ebay BK: Mm-hmm. Rachel: For me, I'm in all favor of a pre prep. So for just for our listeners out there, what a pre prep is referring to, it's referring to a dieting phase before starting competition preparation. ⁓ as natural athletes, we generally look around prep being about twenty-eight weeks give or take, but that will depend on the pre prep. It will depend on how successful we we are with the athlete on that side of things. So I sort of wanted to understand from your perspectives, Brandon and Jacob, like what do you think the most ⁓ ideal length of time for a pre prep is and what should we be really digging into emphasizing beyond the obvious like we're gonna lose some fat, like are there some other components that you think we need to focus on prior to a preparation? Jacob - Ebay BK: I think the biggest takeaway that you could probably go into a pre prep with is trying to elevate, tighten up your nutritional accuracy, any standards around the process to allow you to just glide into contest prep. You don't need to ensure, you know,

you're tracking your sources, you're you're now no longer Letting something be five grams over when you're tracking food in the off season, which is maybe what you may have got in the habit of doing, you can just sort of wriggle your way into contest prep, nothing's changed, you're just eating a little bit less food, and it makes things really easy, especially from a coach's perspective too. If we take pre-prep in a really relaxed manner and progress isn't as it has been mapped out to be. It makes things a little bit more challenging to know how much to push, how much to pull, and again it just would make the transition from pre prep into contest prep a little bit more abrasive. BK: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, just to second that, yeah. Your your pre-preparation phase is, as I put it, the benefit there is, yes, to establish a starting body composition that's appropriate for the contest preparation. But above and beyond that, those secondary components that Jacob puts forth about establishing the standards for the contest preparation are just so important. And I think it's exceptionally so for a novice athlete because You you get better at training with repeat exposure, you get better at dieting with repeat exposure. The discomfort associated with an elevation in appetite is something you must persist through for months on end and cons preparation. Pre-prep's not going to precipitate the same increases in you know hyperphasia, but you will experience a bit of hunger. Okay, we can put in place systems to manage that. And also again just ri establishing the standards, evaluating the bottlenecks in your life that must be changed before the contest prep. And I in an ideal world, as Jacob puts it, moving into contest prep is very easy. You know, we let's say we have a twenty five week contest preparation. The transition to prep shouldn't feel like your life really changes. I mean you tight Rachel: Mm. BK: You tighten up your nutrition accuracy a little bit, only a little bit, because everything's in good stead anyway. The nutrition parameters change. You get on with your life. You don't experience any diet-related side effects until way down in the contest preparation. You're saving your oomph, if you will, for when your physiology starts to give you a little bit of pushback, and then obviously. All things done right in the contest prep you're in a position to actually manage that effectively with your timeline. But the pre prep is just so undervalued, I think. And if you're going to put a place of pre-prep, you want it to be positioned accordingly with the commencement of contest prep. You don't finish the pre-prep one week before you start conduct sprep. It's just one contest prep then. It's usually something we would position with a six to eight week gap between completion of the pre-prep and commencement of the contest prep so you can wash off diet-related fatigue and get one more sort of run in an environment conducive. to maximizing performance as a proxy for stimulus accrual and supporting the energetically costly process of muscle protein synthesis and chucking on some more mass. But very valuable. And I'm trying to think, Jacob, if we ran a pre-prep with you last time. Jacob - Ebay BK: No, we we didn't. Yeah. ⁓ but I was interested to hear 'cause I know if I'm correct, BK, you did a slightly non standard pre prep for your last contest prep, and I'm also interested to hear, Rachel, did you do a pre prep for your last for for this contest prep? BK: You're in good shape and you were very on to it with your nutrition. Your standards were there anyway. Yeah. Rachel: I definitely did. I think for me it was more about because I haven't competed in such a long time. for me personally, ⁓ yes, obviously there was some, you know, physiological things that we needed to to see how the body responded. I've done obviously guiding periods before, etcetera. But for me I found it was particularly important because as anyone who's competed can understand, the the point where you're waiting to start prep and you actually start prep is awful. 'Cause you're sitting I felt like sort of likened it to sitting in a room and waiting for your number to be called. So a pre prep for me was mentally really important because it was basically okay, we're we're loading the chamber now, like we're we're getting ready. This is like ⁓ we have to accomplish this and we have to be successful here because it's it's it's getting me closer to that point where my number's gonna be called to start prep. So for me that was incredibly important but ⁓ Brandon you ran something a bit different. BK: I can't recall if it if I would consider it ⁓ unconventional. ⁓ but I did run a pre prep of sorts. It was, if memory serves correct, pretty short, five ish or so weeks. And it was short, sharp, and aggressive. That's the intention to sort of get in and get out. ⁓ and that positioned me within thirteen percent of stage weight, which is a nice striking distance. In general We like to be within 15% of stage weight. If we could be closer to towards 10, that'd be great. ⁓ some individuals have the ability to operate at a relatively lean body composition without much pushback in reference to food seeking behavior, metabolic rate, reproductive function. ⁓ but I mean it wasn't I wouldn't say it was incredibly unconventional, but yeah, pushed in, short, short dieting phase. Then we had For that season, Rachel and I got married and it was basically the day after our wedding that I jumped into contest preparation and we got wheels up in that that preparation. Rachel: Yeah, I think that lends itself to the timeline as well, right? Like this is what I always like to emphasize with athletes, as I know you guys do as well, is that look, this is what an appropriate timeline looks like. This is if we're gonna pre prep, we should be doing it here. Let's sort of plan around life as best as possible. It's about being realistic and meeting the athlete where

they're at in even in terms of a pre prep. ⁓ as I said, like mentally, I think a really important thing to do, especially if someone hasn't prepped for a while, they're coming back from something, et cetera. But I'm curious to hear, Brandon, in your opinion, do you think that athletes who have more experience in competing? ⁓ do you find that you run pre-preps more or less, or it's not really any different? Like what's your take on that? BK: One of the components that will determine that is the frequency at which they're competing. So some of my masters guys will compete more frequently because They're a little less focused on stepping on stage all the you know with with huge progression. So their off seasons might not be two years, three years. They might be doing a year to year or an 18 month. Because the intention for them is, hey, I'm getting into my fifties now, I want to get some runs on the board, let's rock and roll. In which case, in that scenario, there is no time for a pre prep. The exit from the prior concept preparation must be managed very strategically so that we're lined up for For integration to the next prep. So at least they have. Well, really, they have as much time as possible to one recover, B, ⁓ hopefully make some progress, and C get back into shape for the show. I would say this in general, the more advanced the athlete is, the better shape you should be able to keep them in. There is Rachel: Mm. BK: I can see with a younger individual, I still think there's no reason to be 25-30% over stage weight. If you if anyone does that, I would say it's either a a big oopsie, big ex accident there, or just a a lack of maybe understanding there. But with some of the young guys, I can see there being potential benefit and maybe pushing up towards maybe like 22% over s over projected stage weight. Rachel: Mm. BK: In their early career, because it's just fertile time, if you will, for growth. But the more advanced you become, the less benefit there is in pushing up to those kind of body fat levels. So the less frequent they need to diet in the offseason in general, the less ⁓ lengthy the pre-prep needs to be. Maybe they don't need a pre-prep as well. Another thing to consider is: Jacob's the youngest here, your skin is fabulous. Jacob - Ebay BK: Yeah. BK: When I'm my you know, Rachel I in our thirties, especially when you get in the forties, if you have a push-up to 35% overstage weight, that skin's not going to bounce back. Structurally, the epithelial tissue is damaged. It will not sit on the physique as you want, even ⁓ with a high degree of conditioning. So that's another consideration for off-season management is you know, especially as you get on your career, probably not a wise idea to push up like that. Jacob - Ebay BK: Whoop. Hmm. I think a worthwhile topic is also like when do you start the pre-prep? And I think some primary considerations are things like, you know, people going away on holidays over Christmas. Is it better to

do a like two small ones, like either side, or maybe get it over and done with knowing that the individual can handle themselves appropriately and not Rachel: Mm, yeah. BK: Yeah. Jacob - Ebay BK: send you a message four days into the holiday saying I'm up ten kilos. ⁓ y you've you've you need to know the athlete in front of you. And so, I mean, I don't know, B, if you've got any guys getting close to maybe doing a pre prep at the back end of the year. I know I've got a couple guys getting into one shortly. and in part that's because of when they have holidays planned. And I would rather them BK: Yeah. Mm. Jacob - Ebay BK: We've communicated, we both we've we've had an open discussion around, hey, we need to run this. When like here's my rationale for when I would like to do this. Do you think you can manage? And whilst I'm asking the question, I also know where their skills and their literacy is at within their nutrition and the likelihood of its success. ⁓ but I think that's a very important consideration around how it's set up and how it's managed as well. Rachel: Mm. BK: Yeah. Season B sh shows the pre-prep is always the end of the year before coming into Christmas. So, you know, season season B depends on your federation now. So September season's usually kicking off contest prep in March, thereabouts. So you you you either need to run it before Christmas. Or split it up. And I've done a bit of both, and it really depends on the individual as you you frame it. ⁓ it'd be unfortunate to run this lovely pre-prep and If they have to be fair, if you're a bodybuilder, you're not gonna do this. But if you're if you're serious about this game, but you know, they go away Christmas to New Year's and they have a family culture of just eating, eating, eating and put on tankyos, which sounds ridiculous for us to say, but I'm sure there's people out there that could physically do that in a seven-day period. I don't know why people had this Christmas is a wild time. when it comes to cultural norms surrounding food. It really seems like there are and look, everyone's got their own family culture here, not not to go off on a tangent here, but you know, coming from a family of Jacob - Ebay BK: ⁓ yeah. BK: Borderline athletes, we eat quality food. I don't think you're going to put on ten kilos eating the watermelon and the diverse array of fruit that you know my family would consume over that time. But there are definitely people out there that that that perhaps would have different norms. And that's where I think you need to have an understanding of your athlete and plan accordingly. Rachel: Hmm, definitely. I think some really good points in there. And ⁓ I'm very mindful of ⁓ we're getting to the end of the hour. So I wanted to finish this strong with a question for all of our coaches in the room, which is in regards to ⁓ the prep side of things, what is the most unhinged behavior? 'Cause I keep seeing this stuff on Instagram and like, what's the most unhinged thing you've done in prep? What's the most unhinged behavior you've adopted in prep. It can be related to food or it can be related to training or just lifestyle, but what do you guys think? I I'll go first. So for me, you become very aware of your nuances and how you operate, etc. And I it's because I've had people tell me this is bizarre. ⁓ I like to eat my protein powder with a very small spoon, but I eat the protein powder. I have a certain way of eating it and I I eat it and I take a sip of tea and it just feels right. Jacob - Ebay BK: Hmm. Rachel: And it takes me longer to get through. ⁓ and apparently that's weird. But that's me. BK: Look what I'm trying to think. I've I've done some pretty strange things. So probably the most strange thing that I've ever done. Yeah, it is quite strange. Like sh this is her litmus test for how good whey pro th the flavor of the whey protein is. Can I eat it as powder? I'm like I mean sure, right? She's like rubbing it into her gums like a a proper addict. But it's been interesting to watch my wife ⁓ Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. BK: D in a conness prep I haven't seen a prep since yeah twenty seventeen, so it's a while. But probably the most strange thing I've done is ⁓ and like I this was two thousand and fourteen. Rachel's probably more aware of my personal idiosyncrasies of late with my most recent prep. I can't recall. But I do remember dipping, we used to have Yoplay Forme yoga. I don't it's been a while since I purchased food in Australia. I don't know if that's normal, if that's still around. Yoplay Forme yogurt. But there used to be a banana honey one, and I would cook sticks of sweet potato and then I would just dip the sweet potato in that and eat it. At the time I thought it was amazing. much to the disgust of those around me. I'm I'm chopping this thing. saying, yeah, I want to do in the off season and everyone's thinking, no, I don't think that's the case and it certainly wasn't. From a nutritional perspective, these days are much more simplistic in condress prep purposely so to minimize food seeking behaviour. But that was an interesting one. What do you got, Jacob? Jacob - Ebay BK: I I would I probably limit myself to like two diet soda, diet soft drinks a day, maybe three. But I would water it down. So I might have just ⁓ one can and I might consume that over two to three litres of water. and yeah, that w that was probably one thing where some people were like, Why are you watering it down so much? You probably can't taste anything but again when we're dieting, our sensitivity to flavor is much higher. So I could still taste the cocoa lot and I was happy it's diluting it down that much. ⁓ but I remember I heard Eric Helms actually talk about a carrot and I wanna try this next time around. He would eat the outer portion, outer segment of the carrot and save the core till last, was apparently the core is much sweeter than the outer section of the carrot. So I'd like to give that a go during my next contest prep. BK: Take it from someone who's consumed enough carrot to have beta carrot and poisoning. He is correct with that observation. The set the core is is sweeter, yeah. So you would notice that in contest prep, right now, I mean, we're we probably wouldn't taste the difference, but in contest prep, yeah, I can see that being a quite, you know, sensory, ⁓ rewarding from a sensory perspective. Yes. Rachel: Interesting. Yeah. Jacob - Ebay BK: Yeah, it's a good way to slow down the meal too, right? Rachel: There you go. BK: Yeah, definitely. Rachel: That's true. Anything that ⁓ delays gratification in prep is always ⁓ is great. ⁓ but I really appreciate those insights. I think ⁓ it's you know, you don't know you're doing it until you're doing it, ⁓ as I've become aware of recently. But ⁓ look, that's it from us today at the BK podcast. I really appreciate your time, Jacob and BK, and ⁓ yeah, we'll get back in the next one and have some good chats. But thanks for listening, everyone. Appreciate you. Jacob - Ebay BK: See you guys. Rachel: Cool. Thanks a lot. BK: Yeah.