תעתיק 🔗
WEBVTT
1
00:00:01.800 --> 00:00:04.879
One day your kid is little, the next it seems
2
00:00:04.919 --> 00:00:08.320
they're taller, their voice may have changed, and everyone around
3
00:00:08.359 --> 00:00:13.599
them is suddenly a friend, whether that's actually true or not.
4
00:00:14.480 --> 00:00:17.920
Middle school and puberty hit fast, but the build up
5
00:00:17.960 --> 00:00:20.519
starts long before we notice it. And if we're not
6
00:00:20.760 --> 00:00:25.120
honest with our neurodivergent kids about what's really happening in
7
00:00:25.160 --> 00:00:29.719
their relationships, we can leave them dangerously unprepared for it.
8
00:00:30.440 --> 00:00:35.280
I'm talking with doctor Kim Pinkney, instructional designer, special ed advocate,
9
00:00:35.560 --> 00:00:39.600
and mom of a neurodivergent son, about the early signs
10
00:00:39.640 --> 00:00:43.520
to watch for, the language that quietly sets kids up
11
00:00:43.560 --> 00:00:47.640
to get hurt, and how to help them find their
12
00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:55.280
real people, their true friends. I'm Penny Williams, and this
13
00:00:55.520 --> 00:01:02.719
is beautifully complex. Welcome everyone. I am thrilled to have
14
00:01:02.799 --> 00:01:06.640
doctor Kim Pinkney with me here on the podcast to
15
00:01:06.719 --> 00:01:10.480
talk about middle school and puberty. I feel like I
16
00:01:10.560 --> 00:01:14.680
have to whisper right right, I go, oh, no, this
17
00:01:14.760 --> 00:01:17.439
is gonna be tough, right, But and it is, and
18
00:01:17.519 --> 00:01:20.319
that's why we're here talking about it. So before we
19
00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:23.159
jump into it, will you just let everybody know who
20
00:01:23.159 --> 00:01:24.200
you are and what you do.
21
00:01:24.840 --> 00:01:27.120
I sure, will, and thank you so much for having
22
00:01:27.159 --> 00:01:29.120
me Penny. You know, I've been a fan of your
23
00:01:29.159 --> 00:01:32.000
work and even before I got into sort of my
24
00:01:32.079 --> 00:01:34.760
advocacy work when I was like a struggling parent trying
25
00:01:34.760 --> 00:01:36.560
to figure out what the heck I needed to do.
26
00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:39.280
You are such a voice in this space for me
27
00:01:39.319 --> 00:01:41.760
in a sense like a resource and also just like
28
00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:45.319
a person like I just I just rescricted you as
29
00:01:45.319 --> 00:01:48.959
a person because sometimes it can feel lonely. So thank you.
30
00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:50.200
I'm so glad.
31
00:01:50.439 --> 00:01:53.319
Yeah, I am a doctor, Kim Pinkney, and I am
32
00:01:53.439 --> 00:01:57.599
an instructional designer. I'm a performance improvement coach as well
33
00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:00.120
or consultant and as well as an instructional design and
34
00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:04.599
are focused on inclusive education and special education advocacy. But
35
00:02:04.640 --> 00:02:07.400
most importantly, I'm the mom of a nord urgent kiddo
36
00:02:07.799 --> 00:02:10.639
who has been my biggest inspiration and biggest teacher through
37
00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:13.759
all of this and really sort of changed the trajectory
38
00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:16.199
of my professional life and personal life and all of
39
00:02:16.240 --> 00:02:20.639
those things. So I did start out you know, as
40
00:02:20.759 --> 00:02:24.919
a I I'm still K through twelve certified as an educator,
41
00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:28.000
and I was a middle school teacher, and so it's
42
00:02:28.039 --> 00:02:31.319
one of the reasons why I'm sort of passionate about
43
00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:34.680
the middle school landscape. And when I entered the middle
44
00:02:34.680 --> 00:02:39.280
school sort of environment as an educator, it was great
45
00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:43.120
because I was still young enough to appreciate the budding sarcasm,
46
00:02:43.319 --> 00:02:45.400
you know, I mean, in some ways, you know, had
47
00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:47.360
a baby face, and so it was sort of blended
48
00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:50.919
in they saw me more as certainly the teacher, but
49
00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:54.080
someone that they could also relate to. I still felt
50
00:02:54.159 --> 00:02:56.319
like I had my pulse on what was hot, you know,
51
00:02:56.400 --> 00:03:00.400
with that what they were into. And it was also
52
00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:03.960
a wild ride. Right when you're teaching middle school. You
53
00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:06.960
have some kids that come in and their babies, right,
54
00:03:07.199 --> 00:03:11.039
and some kids that are like grown grown, and it's
55
00:03:11.080 --> 00:03:17.199
a whole trajectory of hormones and levels of maturity and
56
00:03:17.319 --> 00:03:22.479
levels of responsibility, levels of really getting into executive function
57
00:03:22.520 --> 00:03:24.400
and where you're really starting to see some of that
58
00:03:24.520 --> 00:03:29.039
executive dysfunction show up. And I felt like it was
59
00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:31.319
a really good primer for me, Like I felt like
60
00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:33.879
I had it and really understood all the ins and
61
00:03:33.919 --> 00:03:37.520
outs of what that sort of puberty landscape was. And
62
00:03:37.599 --> 00:03:39.560
you know, when you're twenty something, you can take that
63
00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:42.919
with the grain of salt. Right, like they weren't my kids,
64
00:03:42.919 --> 00:03:45.199
so I'm just I'm helping them, right, I'm supporting them
65
00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:49.159
and not feeling like emotionally so tied in such a
66
00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:53.280
super connected heart space way as if it were my
67
00:03:53.319 --> 00:03:55.599
own kiddo. And then I will tell you that, you know,
68
00:03:55.719 --> 00:03:59.439
having my own kiddo, who I feel like overnight just
69
00:03:59.639 --> 00:04:02.919
entered puberty space. It seems like I looked at the hallway
70
00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:05.000
one day and I was
Load full transcript
like, wait, how are you
71
00:04:05.080 --> 00:04:07.120
eye level with me? And now you're taller than me?
72
00:04:07.159 --> 00:04:09.479
And where did that voice come from? That? So it
73
00:04:09.639 --> 00:04:11.919
just I felt like its knuck up on me, even
74
00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:14.240
though I knew it was coming and knew all the signs.
75
00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:17.480
And then having a kiddo of my own in puberty
76
00:04:17.560 --> 00:04:20.800
was really a wake up call and then gave me
77
00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:24.079
yet another layer of like how to think about all
78
00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:25.560
of the things we do and need to do to
79
00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:27.879
support and advocate for our kids, all the things we
80
00:04:27.920 --> 00:04:30.120
do and then need to do and maybe shift in
81
00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:34.800
the public school setting because it doesn't actually happen overnight. Yeah,
82
00:04:35.319 --> 00:04:38.000
it is a build up. So yeah, that's a little
83
00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:38.519
bit about me.
84
00:04:39.079 --> 00:04:42.720
Yeah, how do we identify that build up? Because I
85
00:04:42.759 --> 00:04:46.399
feel the same as you one day this kid was
86
00:04:46.439 --> 00:04:49.600
taller than me or was you know, and it does
87
00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:53.199
it feels like it happens overnight. It really, how do
88
00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:58.120
we identify where that's starting then? If it isn't overnight.
89
00:04:58.160 --> 00:05:00.319
Well, I think that there's some just like on a
90
00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:02.920
like a mom sort of level, there is some of that,
91
00:05:03.079 --> 00:05:06.120
like clothing, Like let's just take that as an example.
92
00:05:06.399 --> 00:05:07.879
I feel like there was a certain point in time
93
00:05:07.879 --> 00:05:09.759
where we kind of leveled out and my son was
94
00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:11.720
able to stay in the same size. I'm like, oh,
95
00:05:11.720 --> 00:05:14.560
this is great. But when you start to notice like, oh,
96
00:05:14.680 --> 00:05:16.240
maybe we're at the edge and we need to go
97
00:05:16.360 --> 00:05:19.879
up another sized, Like, that's one little indicator that I think.
98
00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:22.040
I was like, oh, it's just back to school, shopping
99
00:05:22.120 --> 00:05:23.720
or whatever. But I think that was sort of an
100
00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:26.240
indicator of like, oh, we're about to hit another gross Burt.
101
00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:30.319
That's one thing. And then I have a son. So also,
102
00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:34.000
I will say when he started asking for second dinner,
103
00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:37.199
I was like, what what do you mean second dinner?
104
00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:40.240
You know, you should be luck you got the first dinner.
105
00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:42.639
But those types of things, I think we're clues and
106
00:05:42.680 --> 00:05:45.680
I was like, oh, but knowing that with that, with
107
00:05:45.720
--> 00:05:49.399
that growth are also coming these hormonal changes in all
108
00:05:49.399 --> 00:05:51.560
of these other things. Those are like really sort of
109
00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:57.000
subtle things, and also the socio emotional aspect. I could
110
00:05:57.079 --> 00:06:00.279
really notice my son starting to become like he was
111
00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:03.199
aware of peers and what that looked like before, but
112
00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:06.920
really started mentioning like, oh, I wonder what those kids
113
00:06:06.920 --> 00:06:10.560
are doing really and actually starting to question like how
114
00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:12.480
I'm in this classroom, but why am I not with
115
00:06:12.519 --> 00:06:14.160
those other kids, and why do I only see them
116
00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:17.120
during certain times of the day. Curious about other folks
117
00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:19.040
instead of just like, oh, this is where I am.
118
00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:22.199
There was a new level of awareness that started to
119
00:06:22.199 --> 00:06:26.600
come before all of the emotional attachment, right, like so
120
00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:31.360
a curiosity, and then we got into this space of like, hey,
121
00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:33.839
like I really want to be with other kids, I'm
122
00:06:33.879 --> 00:06:37.240
really interested in girls, I'm interested in all these things,
123
00:06:37.240 --> 00:06:39.199
and sort of the emotions that come around with that.
124
00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:41.680
We didn't start with the emotions of like oh, I
125
00:06:41.800 --> 00:06:43.879
kind of want to be with these kids. It was
126
00:06:43.879 --> 00:06:46.360
more of a curiosity. And I think that was a
127
00:06:46.399 --> 00:06:49.800
clue that I kind of like missed because I will
128
00:06:49.800 --> 00:06:52.279
tell you the emotional journey of puberty in terms of
129
00:06:52.360 --> 00:06:56.199
like really being aware of what your peers think of
130
00:06:56.240 --> 00:06:58.439
you in a different way to where it like really
131
00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:02.040
gets you your core and it starts to affect kind
132
00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:05.160
of how you even see yourself. And then you're starting
133
00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:06.800
to try and figure out, oh, well, can I try
134
00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:09.480
and be funny? Should I try on this identity? And like,
135
00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:11.920
there's a lot that happens in middle school and it's
136
00:07:11.959 --> 00:07:16.279
all developmentally appropriate. And then also there's this other layer
137
00:07:16.399 --> 00:07:21.040
of heightened emotions and then heightened sensitivities because if you
138
00:07:21.040 --> 00:07:23.120
have a kiddo that's noor divergent, they may not be
139
00:07:23.199 --> 00:07:25.800
picking up on all of the subtle social cues, all
140
00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:29.879
of the non spoken kind of like body language that's like, hey,
141
00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:33.399
you're being tolerated right now, you're not being truly accepted,
142
00:07:33.560 --> 00:07:36.079
or yeah, I'll talk to you in this environment, but
143
00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:38.639
that doesn't mean that we're like now best friends type
144
00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:39.040
of a thing.
145
00:07:39.199 --> 00:07:39.480
Yeah.
146
00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:42.040
Yeah, And that's one of those things that got me
147
00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:45.519
thinking about though it may seem like it happens overnight,
148
00:07:45.560 --> 00:07:48.800
this is a build up like over time. And I
149
00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:51.439
was even in an IEP meeting, a recent IP meeting
150
00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:55.480
with my son who he's someone that you know, had
151
00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:59.439
a goal for a long time introduce yourself, say hi,
152
00:07:59.720 --> 00:08:02.240
and aren't like, you know, making connections with people when
153
00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:05.800
he was younger, and that type of a goal seems great.
154
00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:08.000
You want, you know, someone to be able to introduce themselves,
155
00:08:08.040 --> 00:08:10.879
say hello, and have like that sort of initial kind
156
00:08:10.920 --> 00:08:14.199
of banter with someone, like an initial greeting exchange. And
157
00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:16.319
I remember he had that goal and we were working
158
00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:19.160
on that for several years. And it's one thing when
159
00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:22.879
you do that when a kiddo is cute and little.
160
00:08:23.839 --> 00:08:25.839
It's another thing when that kid's like, oh, I have
161
00:08:25.959 --> 00:08:28.879
this skill set and now I'm interested in my peers
162
00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:32.000
in a different way, right, and I'm going to use
163
00:08:32.039 --> 00:08:34.039
that skill that you've ingrained in me for all of
164
00:08:34.039 --> 00:08:37.639
these years in elementary school. But then it's different when
165
00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:40.080
you're in middle school because now he's, you know, five
166
00:08:40.159 --> 00:08:43.519
eight and a half, you know what I'm saying, looks grown,
167
00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:47.200
and he's just trying to say hello, but also in
168
00:08:47.240 --> 00:08:49.759
a nor divergent way, like is approaching it, and like
169
00:08:49.799 --> 00:08:52.600
it may not come off as like, you know, Joe cool,
170
00:08:52.759 --> 00:08:55.200
he thinks he is, but like people can tell that
171
00:08:55.279 --> 00:08:58.559
it's not necessarily the same cool kid type of a vibe.
172
00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:00.799
It may feel a little different to them, and then
173
00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:03.039
all of a sudden, that skill that you've worked so
174
00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:06.320
hard on in society and in like a middle school
175
00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:09.240
setting can seem like a threat or you know, a
176
00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:11.039
best seem a little odd, and then it worst seemed
177
00:09:11.039 --> 00:09:14.039
like a threat. And so, yeah, I remember telling the
178
00:09:14.080 --> 00:09:17.600
team because my son got very clever on ways to
179
00:09:17.600 --> 00:09:19.480
figure out like who certain people are. He was using
180
00:09:19.519 --> 00:09:21.360
the yearbook and then trying to reach out to people,
181
00:09:21.399 --> 00:09:23.759
and it makes perfect sense that he would want to
182
00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:26.600
do that, Yeah, but also perfect sense that that would
183
00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:30.279
be unexpected to those receiving that. Right, there's community's like
184
00:09:30.320 --> 00:09:32.039
I don't actually know you, how did you figure out
185
00:09:32.080 --> 00:09:34.240
who I am? Type of a thing. And he said
186
00:09:34.279 --> 00:09:36.039
to the team, I'm like, you know, he's had a
187
00:09:36.039 --> 00:09:39.519
goal of introducing himself for several years. And this is
188
00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:42.279
a kid who is using the tools that he has
189
00:09:42.559 --> 00:09:46.399
right at his disposal to try and make connections and
190
00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:49.799
he has every right to make those connections. And I
191
00:09:49.879 --> 00:09:53.519
don't think we do a good enough job of focusing
192
00:09:53.559 --> 00:09:56.159
on a goal and then also focusing on the caveats,
193
00:09:57.000 --> 00:09:59.320
right yeap, Like when you're generalizing, it's like, oh, that's
194
00:09:59.360 --> 00:10:03.240
generalized in the community, But what about the caveats? What
195
00:10:03.399 --> 00:10:09.200
about yes, introduce yourself and also recognize when someone's saying, hey,
196
00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:12.559
I'm not interested, or hey, that was unexpected. And I
197
00:10:12.639 --> 00:10:14.399
don't think that we do a good job of that,
198
00:10:14.519 --> 00:10:16.799
which then I feel like, once you get to that
199
00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:20.600
puberty stage can be a little nerve wracking and a
200
00:10:20.600 --> 00:10:22.440
little dangerous. So I think we have to do a
201
00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:24.960
better job of looking at that sort of life cycle
202
00:10:25.559 --> 00:10:28.320
of things instead of Okay, this is an appropriate elementary goal.
203
00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:29.600
We're going to do that. Da da da da da
204
00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:31.720
and kind of let other people worry about the rest.
205
00:10:32.080 --> 00:10:34.279
I think we have worried about it from the beginning.
206
00:10:34.600 --> 00:10:37.480
That nuance. We don't put that in goals, And how
207
00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:40.799
would we really like if a goal was, you know,
208
00:10:40.919 --> 00:10:44.720
a novel, maybe, but it's not. And so like I
209
00:10:44.799 --> 00:10:49.679
remember my own son coming in in sixth grade and
210
00:10:49.720 --> 00:10:55.080
now boys tease each other, it's camaraderie. He would come
211
00:10:55.120 --> 00:10:59.000
in the door raging mad that they were bullying him,
212
00:10:59.000 --> 00:11:02.399
that they weren't ass and I was like, oh, I
213
00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:05.600
think we need to start working on that nonverbal stuff. Yes, right,
214
00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:08.600
Like it wasn't really a problem, and then it was
215
00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:13.000
a problem, and I'm so glad we're talking about trying
216
00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:17.080
to identify earlier and starting to work on that earlier
217
00:11:17.639 --> 00:11:19.000
before it's a problem.
218
00:11:19.159 --> 00:11:21.759
That's right, because I do think that even in the
219
00:11:21.879 --> 00:11:24.960
language that certain providers, whether they be within the school
220
00:11:25.039 --> 00:11:29.519
or external therapeutic providers, they'll just start addressing like using
221
00:11:29.679 --> 00:11:33.080
the word friends. M h, well, not everybody use your friend.
222
00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:35.960
Yeah, I mean, like you know this is your.
223
00:11:35.799 --> 00:11:38.559
Friend because they're just here, but no, they actually aren't,
224
00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:41.320
and no one's ever taking the time then until it
225
00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:43.600
becomes a thing to say, oh, well, there's a difference
226
00:11:43.639 --> 00:11:47.639
between friends, acquaintances and someone that you just happen to. Like,
227
00:11:47.840 --> 00:11:50.759
no one is setting right and while they don't and
228
00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:53.440
I'm not advocating for like, oh, IEPs need to be
229
00:11:53.639 --> 00:11:55.759
any longer than they already are, because they are long,
230
00:11:55.799 --> 00:11:58.440
but I do think that, like we should have some
231
00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:02.799
sub goals around like what happens when you introduce yourself
232
00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:05.600
and get a certain reaction and how to cope with
233
00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:08.960
that or at least start to recognize those things and
234
00:12:09.039 --> 00:12:13.120
even the words that we use, like as therapists, like
235
00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:16.720
are you calling yourself a friend to your client? In
236
00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:19.720
the short term, it's about building community and making them
237
00:12:19.759 --> 00:12:23.120
feel safe and in the long term, though, is that
238
00:12:23.320 --> 00:12:27.320
setting that particular individual up to think that, oh, anyone
239
00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:29.039
that's around me is just going to be my friend
240
00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:31.879
and have my best interest at heart, right, Because it's
241
00:12:31.879 --> 00:12:34.960
not true. Right, And therapists change over time, you age
242
00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:36.960
out of things, or they switch a job, and then
243
00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:39.960
what happens? What is that saying about friendship? I think
244
00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:42.399
we have to be really clear and intentional about the
245
00:12:42.440 --> 00:12:45.559
language we use. And so for my son, for
Gavin,
246
00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:50.279
I'd be like, this is your therapist talking to my
247
00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:52.960
dad his grandfather the other day, and he's like, Grandpa,
248
00:12:53.039 --> 00:12:55.120
maybe you should talk about that. What's a therapist like
249
00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:59.320
using these terms? Because I'm clear with him right about
250
00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:02.039
what is is and what this relationship is, what it's not.
251
00:13:02.840 --> 00:13:05.000
So even little things like that, if we can't get
252
00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:06.759
to the point where we're looking at all the caveats,
253
00:13:06.759 --> 00:13:09.240
can we at least be clear about our language because
254
00:13:09.240 --> 00:13:21.799
we shouldn't expect everybody to be friends.
255
00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:25.960
I'm in a graduate program right now with mostly teachers
256
00:13:26.639 --> 00:13:29.960
and they call everyone pal or friend, and I thought
257
00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:33.480
it was so endearing, and now I'm second guessing that.
258
00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:37.440
I know like I know it seems benign and sweet
259
00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:42.080
and correct. There's some ambiguity there.
260
00:13:42.200 --> 00:13:44.759
There is some ambiguity there. And then so think about
261
00:13:44.799 --> 00:13:48.000
that in a middle school context. If you have, especially
262
00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:51.600
a nor divergent student who has been in environments where
263
00:13:51.639 --> 00:13:56.000
a therapists are calling them, you know, friends, where everyone
264
00:13:56.240 --> 00:13:58.759
all of the students that they're around are friends and
265
00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:00.960
are expected to be friends. But they're like, but wait,
266
00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:03.639
I don't actually like so and so, Yeah, do.
267
00:14:03.639 --> 00:14:04.120
You know what I mean?
268
00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:06.480
Like, how are they grappling with that and coming to truth?
269
00:14:06.639 --> 00:14:07.879
I know exactly what you mean.
270
00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:10.759
And frankly, some of the best lessons you can have
271
00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:13.320
and learn when you're approaching middle school and in middle
272
00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:17.320
school is how to be a respectful non friend, right,
273
00:14:17.879 --> 00:14:21.279
because you're not going to get along with everyone, and
274
00:14:21.320 --> 00:14:24.519
it's that's by design, and that's okay, but yes, you
275
00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:26.879
still need to be respectful. And yes, we're not going
276
00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:28.720
to promote like you know, doing the caddy stuff and
277
00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:31.799
talking behind people's backs. But if we're it seems just
278
00:14:31.879 --> 00:14:35.159
disingenuous to have this expectation that everyone's going to be friends,
279
00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:37.960
and then dangerous for a nor divergent student because then
280
00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:40.360
they're left to grapple with Okay, but I thought they
281
00:14:40.360 --> 00:14:43.039
were my friends when I'm not getting like, I'm not
282
00:14:43.159 --> 00:14:44.879
understanding how they're not talking to.
283
00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:45.600
Me, you know what?
284
00:14:45.720 --> 00:14:49.120
Right? I mean? Yeah, I did this post recently about
285
00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:51.960
my son sort of coming to terms. There was a
286
00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:55.759
girl that he likes, and they rightfully so beautiful girl,
287
00:14:55.919 --> 00:15:00.519
lovely person, and she was friendly with him, great, they
288
00:15:00.519 --> 00:15:04.279
were talking on the phone, great, and it seemed reciprocal,
289
00:15:04.519 --> 00:15:06.519
and that at a certain point in time it was like,
290
00:15:06.679 --> 00:15:09.440
let's I could tell that, you know, she was fading
291
00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:12.440
this back right and would say was not being truthful
292
00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:14.120
to him and was saying like, oh, you know, I
293
00:15:14.120 --> 00:15:17.080
got my phone taken away. Sorry, blah blah blah, I
294
00:15:17.080 --> 00:15:19.960
can't talk. But that wasn't the case because it went
295
00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:22.000
on for a long time and clearly he was, you know,
296
00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:24.600
then blocked or what have you. But it's this piece
297
00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:30.039
around who's then left to give ground truth to these
298
00:15:30.039 --> 00:15:32.879
students and it fell on me, right, so I am
299
00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:35.639
having to because I don't want him in a non
300
00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:37.840
reality space that could be very dangerous too, Like I
301
00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:41.000
don't want you living with in a dream world like
302
00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:43.919
this is someone who, yes, I understand you want so
303
00:15:44.039 --> 00:15:48.720
desperately for this person to be your friend, And let's
304
00:15:48.759 --> 00:15:51.120
look at the evidence of the behavior that's not actually
305
00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:54.639
friend like, right. Yeah, if they don't want to talk
306
00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:56.440
to you outside of school or aren't talking to you
307
00:15:56.440 --> 00:15:59.720
outside of school, that's not really friend like behavior. So
308
00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:02.000
maybe this is an acquaintance and it takes a long
309
00:16:02.080 --> 00:16:04.679
time to get there, like repetition of these little nuggets
310
00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:09.240
because I'm having to break my son's heart. Yeah, once,
311
00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:12.440
this relationship so bad, he's deserving of it. But hey,
312
00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:15.879
you know, haven't we all been in situation where they
313
00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:19.200
don't want us back, Like it's a life experience. But
314
00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:22.200
I'm not there to tell him, Hey, but look at
315
00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:26.240
this
evidence and measure that up against our definitions of
316
00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:29.440
friendship and what you would expect. Then I have to
317
00:16:29.559 --> 00:16:33.759
gently break his heart while simultaneously holding space for that heartache. Right.
318
00:16:34.519 --> 00:16:37.279
But my point of that is, like, we need a
319
00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:41.720
little bit more of that reality embedded in the landscape,
320
00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:45.799
because I think when we are calling everybody friends and hey,
321
00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:49.440
pals and hey this and hey, that it sets folks
322
00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:51.639
up to live in a world that is not based
323
00:16:51.639 --> 00:16:55.440
in reality and all doesn't give them the tools to
324
00:16:55.559 --> 00:16:58.519
recognize when someone is not showing up in their life
325
00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:02.000
in a way that is is honoring their value in
326
00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:06.400
their inherent humanity. It's inhibiting them for them being a
327
00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:09.599
self advocate in that way. Is there in a llalla
328
00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:12.799
land about it? Right? That's the sort of thing that
329
00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:15.200
I think is one of the most critical things is
330
00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:18.720
really we have to be honest, be honest in an
331
00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:21.599
age appropriate way. But like calling yourself the therapist when
332
00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:26.240
you are the therapist, low hanging fruit. Referring to the
333
00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:29.400
folks in the class not as everybody's friends but were classmates,
334
00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:33.960
accurate and also age appropriate, right, I think lends itself
335
00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:37.000
then for that conversation around friends versus acquaintances.
336
00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:42.359
And there's a point where most of our neurodiversion kids
337
00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:46.480
start to be able to pick up on that nuance right,
338
00:17:46.839 --> 00:17:49.640
to pick up some of those signals. In sixth grade,
339
00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:53.599
my son didn't, right I in carpool. I could tell
340
00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:56.000
that they were trying to blow him off, but he
341
00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:59.920
was completely oblivious. And for a while I was like,
342
00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:03.839
thank goodness, he doesn't know. Thank goodness, they're not breaking
343
00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:06.799
his heart too yep. And then I was like, wait
344
00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:12.279
a minute, we can't live in a fairyland all the time.
345
00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:15.000
It's not preparing them for later.
346
00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:16.160
It's such a.
347
00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:20.960
Hard thing to accept as a parent that we need
348
00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:24.440
to let our kids struggle, that we need to let
349
00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:28.720
them feel pain. We don't want that, right, well, we
350
00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:33.079
wants that, and for me, it was really hard to
351
00:18:33.160 --> 00:18:36.880
make that shift and to be able to sit back sometimes.
352
00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:40.519
But it sounds like that's really how we prepare them
353
00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:43.599
better for real life, in the real world, which is
354
00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:44.599
what we worry about.
355
00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:47.680
There you go, and it is to your point, Penny,
356
00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:50.440
it is devastating. Like I'm telling you about this situation
357
00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:52.200
where I'm having to break this down for my son.
358
00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:55.920
I definitely had to take some time for myself because
359
00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:58.519
it broke my heart too, do you know what I mean?
360
00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:00.799
Like breaks my heart too. And of course there are
361
00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:03.160
those moments where you're like, oh, thank goodness, he's not
362
00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:05.680
picking up on this side I over here or whatever.
363
00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:09.519
But also there will be a time when I'm not here,
364
00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:14.240
you know, And so it's only okay if he's in
365
00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:16.319
La La land, because I'm here and I know that
366
00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:18.160
it was La La land, so I can sort of
367
00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:21.240
set think, but that's not what this is, right, we
368
00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:25.000
really want it's to be as independent as possible, and
369
00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:31.880
so independence and life itself involves both ups and downs. Unfortunately,
370
00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:35.559
our kido's will experience you know, more sort of negative
371
00:19:35.559 --> 00:19:38.160
reactions or disciplines and all all of those things. We
372
00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:42.440
know that to be true. And I think the hardest part,
373
00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:47.079
but our most important sort of task, is to let
374
00:19:47.079 --> 00:19:50.680
our kiddo's experience the pain that's coming up in their
375
00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:55.079
lives and also showing them that there's someone there that's
376
00:19:55.400 --> 00:19:58.400
holding space for them while they're going through it, yeah, right,
377
00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:02.400
helping them COREGT so that when we aren't there, they
378
00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:05.519
then are able to more able to access their self
379
00:20:05.559 --> 00:20:10.960
regulation tools can't protect my son from you know, heartbreaks
380
00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:14.720
and negative messages he may get from someone else, But
381
00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:16.880
it is my job to make sure that at least
382
00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:20.200
I've done my part and letting him know how special
383
00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:22.920
and unique and how worthy he is, so that he
384
00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:26.640
can recognize when someone is showing up as a friend,
385
00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:29.640
so recognize when someone is treating him well and is
386
00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:34.279
worthy of that, like reciprocal relationship. It is hard. And
387
00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:36.279
the other I sort of mentioned in our little pre
388
00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:38.440
talk is like, you know, all of this is happening
389
00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:40.039
at the same time where I, as a parent, I'm
390
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:43.960
going through my own hormonal changes. Yes, here's a lot
391
00:20:44.039 --> 00:20:46.359
going on, and so I just want to hold space
392
00:20:46.400 --> 00:20:49.480
for those who are like either menopause or menopause while
393
00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:52.160
also having a kiddo in puberty, because it is no
394
00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:55.839
easy feat. There's lots going on. But I also think
395
00:20:55.880 --> 00:20:58.799
that because I am experienced some of those some changes
396
00:20:58.839 --> 00:21:02.240
of my own, it makes me empathize too, right with
397
00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:05.839
ronal changes that he's going through. It would have been
398
00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:07.880
nice if it was a little more staggered, I will
399
00:21:07.880 --> 00:21:10.839
say that, but but at least there's that empathy piece, right,
400
00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:12.559
and then I can be honest with him about, Hey,
401
00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:15.680
I'm feeling differences too in my body or whatever, and
402
00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:18.880
like just sort of relating on that level. And I
403
00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:22.759
think it's we've had some really great one on one
404
00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:26.759
conversations because of that empathy and because of that safety
405
00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:27.759
that we've established.
406
00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:32.920
Yeah, that relationship is so key, so key, And I
407
00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:37.279
think what you're describing builds even more trust because they
408
00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:40.720
know that we've got them, but they also know that
409
00:21:40.759 --> 00:21:44.000
we're going to be real with them, correct that we're
410
00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:47.960
not you know, just I love you. You're my kenno
411
00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:51.680
everything's going to be great, right, Like they get more
412
00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:53.559
trust with honesty. Really right?
413
00:21:54.079 --> 00:21:56.880
Yeah, what you just said actually reminds me of this
414
00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:00.759
incident my son. We were we had just move states,
415
00:22:00.759 --> 00:22:02.920
and he was starting a new school, was starting the
416
00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:05.920
middle school as a fifth grader. It's here, it's fifth
417
00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:08.279
or eighth grade. And I said to him, I had
418
00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:10.240
to drive him because they didn't have the bus service
419
00:22:10.279 --> 00:22:13.000
set up any of that stuff. So I'm dropping him
420
00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:15.680
off at school and I said, have a great day.
421
00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:19.440
He walks a little bit and then pauses. And this
422
00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:23.920
is the kiddo with expressive and receptive speech delay. He's
423
00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:26.519
always been vocal used his mouth words, but like when
424
00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:29.720
he says something and he's pausing, it means something. So
425
00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:33.039
he walks a little bit, pauses, turns back around to
426
00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:35.680
me and says, Mom, I don't know what type of
427
00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:39.920
day I'm going to have. And I was like, huh.
428
00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:42.240
But it was his way of telling me with real
429
00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:46.079
intentionality and focus, like I don't know what this is
430
00:22:46.119 --> 00:22:48.440
going to be. You can't just like blow smoke and
431
00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:51.920
mirrors in my face. This is scary. This is a
432
00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:55.400
new school, it's big. I don't know any of these
433
00:22:55.480 --> 00:22:58.519
kids and let me have my feelings. And I can't
434
00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:00.519
promise you it's going to be this great day that
435
00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:02.640
you want me to have, you know what I mean.
436
00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:05.599
And that was like, Oh, I got to let you
437
00:23:06.519 --> 00:23:10.240
feel what you're feeling. I gotta let you experience what
438
00:23:10.279 --> 00:23:12.799
you're experiencing. Of course, I hope for you, as your
439
00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:15.359
mom that it's a great day, but I can't force
440
00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:19.240
a great day on you out of my control. What
441
00:23:19.359 --> 00:23:21.839
I can do is be here to receive you when
442
00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:24.400
you get home, and if it's a great day, hold
443
00:23:24.440 --> 00:23:27.519
space for that. If it was a scary day, hold
444
00:23:27.559 --> 00:23:30.119
space for that right and figure out what we can
445
00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:32.240
do to make it a little less scary the next day.
446
00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:35.200
But yeah, it was one of these big lessons. I
447
00:23:35.240 --> 00:23:39.000
still remember it like crystal clear because it was so impactful.
448
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:41.519
And I think sometimes weeople want to wish away our kids,
449
00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:43.559
paying we want to wish away difficult times, and you
450
00:23:43.599 --> 00:23:44.200
cannot do that.
451
00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:49.039
Yeah, you can't. You can't. I'm wondering if a change
452
00:23:49.079 --> 00:23:52.279
in language would have helped, Like if you had said,
453
00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:56.319
I hope today is a great day, would that have
454
00:23:56.480 --> 00:23:59.880
been enough of a change, or would that still feel
455
00:23:59.880 --> 00:24:05.119
like pressure to have a good day and not really
456
00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:08.519
be in control of it.
Like our kids when they
457
00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:11.400
walk into a school building, they are not in control
458
00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:14.240
of whether or not they have a good day. That's
459
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:16.440
just reality, it is mm hmm.
460
00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:18.720
And I think for him at that time, because it
461
00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:20.720
was such a major shift that I think even that
462
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:23.240
change in language would have felt like pressure to him.
463
00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:26.400
I think that would have resonated with him at the
464
00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:29.240
time was Buddy, whatever day you're going to have, just
465
00:24:29.319 --> 00:24:33.079
know I'm here for you when you get home, because
466
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:35.920
it was it was so uncertain, there were so many
467
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:40.079
variables that it's like, hey, we you know, I hope
468
00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:41.839
the best for you, but whatever it's going to be,
469
00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:44.119
I'm here for you at the end of the day, right,
470
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:47.000
and that this is your SAT's going to work, Yeah,
471
00:24:47.079 --> 00:24:48.839
you know where we're going to work through stuff together.
472
00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:51.799
But yeah, it was a really really big lesson. So
473
00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:54.440
I'm really intentional about like the language I'm using that
474
00:24:54.799 --> 00:24:58.640
seems great, seems benign, right, Hey pals have a great day,
475
00:24:58.680 --> 00:25:01.640
blah blah blah, But is that really holding space for
476
00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:05.640
his experience? Is that really he is like what he's
477
00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:08.759
going to need. And I'm finding no, I have to
478
00:25:08.920 --> 00:25:11.680
just be more real with him, and then he in
479
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:13.680
turned is real with me in ways that I don't
480
00:25:13.720 --> 00:25:16.359
always like. But you know, yeah, we're we have a
481
00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:19.160
relationship based in honesty, and I really appreciate that.
482
00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:24.319
It's everything. That's everything, and what we're talking about can
483
00:25:24.440 --> 00:25:27.480
get better, right, I want to end on this like
484
00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:31.759
it can get better. Like I remember in seventh or
485
00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:36.200
eighth grade, my son had started robotics after school. I
486
00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:40.640
finally found his people right and got in the car
487
00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:44.359
and one day after school and I at that point,
488
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:46.119
I think I had stopped asking how is your day
489
00:25:46.119 --> 00:25:49.640
because it was met with a lot of grumpiness and silence,
490
00:25:50.119 --> 00:25:54.440
and I said something different, but he said, you know what,
491
00:25:55.559 --> 00:26:00.880
I finally have real friends. He said, you know when
492
00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:03.839
someone comes up and they talk to you first and
493
00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:07.240
you didn't even know they were there. Yet I have
494
00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:11.960
those friends now. And I went home and cried because
495
00:26:12.039 --> 00:26:16.319
I was like, thank goodness, we've done this, like I
496
00:26:16.359 --> 00:26:20.680
even have goosebumps now. And that was ten eleven years ago.
497
00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:24.240
Yes, of course, and it was.
498
00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:28.920
I think for me, the tears were He's gonna be okay,
499
00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:33.680
just does get better. He's gonna have friends. It is
500
00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:36.279
gonna be okay, and he's gonna have the real friends,
501
00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:39.799
not the ones who are placating and pacifying and you know,
502
00:26:39.880 --> 00:26:43.240
trying to be polite but don't really want to spend time.
503
00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:48.039
Now he's found his people and it happens. It's just later,
504
00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:50.000
well later.
505
00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:53.160
But also again I think at the same time, right,
506
00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:56.079
because you have to you have to be continuously exploring,
507
00:26:56.200 --> 00:26:59.880
like what what are your interests and what things do
508
00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:02.480
you want to try out? Right? So, like my son
509
00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:06.480
is really into swimming. He has a flair for the dramatique.
510
00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:07.079
I don't know where he.
511
00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:09.039
Gets done, no no idea.
512
00:27:09.039 --> 00:27:12.440
But we found this great group, a theater group that's
513
00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:16.720
specifically it's like improvisational games. It's called sadari and I
514
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:19.680
forget what the acronym s fills out to, but improvisational
515
00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:22.960
theater based games specifically for nor divergent tenes.
516
00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:24.759
Wow, and it.
517
00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:26.759
He had done some theater before and then he had
518
00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:28.960
stopped because he had like a bad social experience, and
519
00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:32.160
then this was a perfect entryway back. And it's like
520
00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:34.359
he's like, mom, do I have group this week? Like
521
00:27:34.440 --> 00:27:37.440
it's like that like preemptive, like but with excitement, not
522
00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:39.799
like mom, do I have group this week, it's like no,
523
00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:43.839
like it's that, you know, elevated like intonation. And I
524
00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:45.559
can tell that he's interested, and I can tell that
525
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:49.359
he's enjoying the company of those folks right in those
526
00:27:49.400 --> 00:27:52.000
moments where he's in a certain setting and someone will
527
00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:53.880
come up to him and say like hey, Gavin, and
528
00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:57.240
they're given a pound or whatever, Like those moments are
529
00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:01.480
really really cherished, like when you're seeing your kiddo's face
530
00:28:01.559 --> 00:28:03.880
light up right, And I wouldn't have known that you
531
00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:07.039
have to keep trying things right before you can see
532
00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:08.720
what's really going to work and where they're going to
533
00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:11.319
find their people. But that's the magic. And so when
534
00:28:11.319 --> 00:28:13.480
he's in those times of struggle, when there's someone a
535
00:28:13.480 --> 00:28:14.960
friend that he wants to be a friend that's not
536
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:17.599
really a friend, I remind him, well, how does this
537
00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:21.799
feel in this situation versus this other situation where your
538
00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:24.640
voice is like hey mo, like are we having group?
539
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:27.319
Am I going to see so and so today? Versus
540
00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:30.480
I wonder why this person isn't you know that anguish
541
00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:32.759
like and trying to get him to see those differences
542
00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:35.880
so that he can really continue to fill his cup
543
00:28:36.440 --> 00:28:40.079
from those experiences where they are authentic and reciprocated carry
544
00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:41.839
him through those hard parts and then so we'll get
545
00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:44.680
to some more of those. Yeah, I think such a journey.
546
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:47.240
And thank you for sharing that scenario with your son,
547
00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:49.880
because it honestly almost brought me to tears. And that's
548
00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:52.640
that's the thing, right, Like, it does get better, but
549
00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:55.720
the way to get to better is being honest. Yeah, authentic,
550
00:28:55.839 --> 00:28:58.119
pointing these things out so that they're not in lalla
551
00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:00.240
land and they can actually get to find their true people.
552
00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:03.319
And when they find they're true people, they know it. Like,
553
00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:06.640
if we keep saying everybody's a friend, how are they
554
00:29:06.680 --> 00:29:09.119
going to be able to stinguish sharing all?
555
00:29:09.279 --> 00:29:11.079
Because then people that treat me bad or my friends,
556
00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:12.759
people that don't talk to me at all are my friend.
557
00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:14.400
People that do say hi to me or my friend?
558
00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:16.000
Like what does that even mean?
559
00:29:16.359 --> 00:29:20.720
You know, the difference between being friendly and being a friend, right,
560
00:29:20.839 --> 00:29:23.079
I think that's what we're really talking about, is like
561
00:29:23.559 --> 00:29:25.640
we want kids in the classroom to be friendly to
562
00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:28.440
each other. That doesn't mean that they're all going to
563
00:29:28.519 --> 00:29:33.079
be true friends with each other. And that's okay, Like
564
00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:34.400
that's real life.
565
00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:36.559
It really is, and they are you know, even like
566
00:29:36.680 --> 00:29:38.559
me as an adult in the workforce, Like I have
567
00:29:38.680 --> 00:29:42.079
people that are acquaintances and that's perfectly fine. I respect
568
00:29:42.119 --> 00:29:44.799
my acquaintances, but that's where they are, right. I have
569
00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:48.759
colleagues people that I respect collegiately, but they're not my friends,
570
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:51.920
and that's okay. And then I have my friends and
571
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:54.319
it's a small circle for me because I you know,
572
00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:56.759
I'm an I'm an introvert and I like my time
573
00:29:56.839 --> 00:30:00.440
to myself. That's fine, but I know who those people are, right,
574
00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:03.079
And I'm not trying to conflate anything and make an
575
00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:06.480
acquaintance of Like that's just we all have that in
576
00:30:06.519 --> 00:30:08.799
our lives. And I do point that out to my
577
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:11.480
son as well, like, you know, same thing for mommy,
578
00:30:11.559 --> 00:30:13.319
Like I'm not just putting this on you. This is
579
00:30:13.359 --> 00:30:16.359
what I'm going through too. But yeah, that's what life
580
00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:19.440
is about. And I think middle school and puberty is
581
00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:21.960
one of those times where these things start to surface.
582
00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:24.640
But again, I can iterate enough. It doesn't just start
583
00:30:24.680 --> 00:30:27.000
at middle school. We have to think about the jectory
584
00:30:27.039 --> 00:30:29.799
of like what's happening before then once we get there,
585
00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:33.079
and how can we be more honest at all those phases? Right,
586
00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:34.519
Even though it may be hard.
587
00:30:35.160 --> 00:30:37.279
Thank you so much when you tell everybody where to
588
00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:41.279
find you online so they can learn more, potentially work
589
00:30:41.319 --> 00:30:42.960
with you, all that good stuff.
590
00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:45.559
So on LinkedIn. I am doctor Kim Pinkney on LinkedIn
591
00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:48.599
as well as doctor Kim Pinkney on Instagram. You can
592
00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:50.319
find me there and I have a link tree and
593
00:30:50.359 --> 00:30:52.079
all that good stuff. I can share the links with
594
00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:52.720
you to post.
595
00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:55.640
Yep, we'll share all of that in the show notes
596
00:30:55.680 --> 00:30:59.559
as well. That can be found at parentingadhdnautism dot com.
597
00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:05.119
Thank you, you're such a infectious, warm person like I
598
00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:07.799
just I have the best time talking with you. It
599
00:31:07.880 --> 00:31:11.720
always makes my day better. I appreciate it so much,
600
00:31:11.799 --> 00:31:16.079
so we'll have you back soon, I'm sure. All right.
601
00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:19.319
You take care everyone, and I'll see you next time.
602
00:31:20.920 --> 00:31:25.720
Visit beautifully hyphencomplex dot com for more resources, coaching and
603
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:29.200
parent training, and help another kid by sharing this with
604
00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:31.400
someone who could benefit from listening.