התמלול המלא של Beginning the officiating journey

get through that and what made you not give up that really overwhelming stage? Courtney Pascoe [00:05:33] It did feel like going back to school. I remember sitting in that 2 1/2 day course, just so much information coming because part of the rules. They're not always the same rules for the type of event. So like a local or national event has certain types of rules. Then when you get to like a regional championships or a World Cup, there's different things that can change. And even then at the Paralympics, there's little things that you have to know that at that certain level of competition change. So straight away, I had to take my powerlifting hat off and just learn power powerlifting rules. The only similarities are really probably a barbell that you're bench pressing and there's Eliko plates. So really just had to be open to learning more. I think at first I didn't even know which questions to ask. So it was more just trying to take notes, take in the rule book, watch a lot of power powerlifting, like watch previous events. I think not long after I got my qualification, I was lucky enough to watch the Comm Games in Gold Coast and just see how the field of play worked and see just how technical the lifts actually are. Like they're so precise with parapet lifting compared to what I'd seen before. So learning wise, yeah, I just say to be open to being a beginner again, which after being a personal trainer back then for at least, it was probably like 15 years, it was so nice to learn some new skills and just, yeah, being open to that and actually asking the questions of the experienced people instead of assuming that I already knew because I didn't. Brooke Kneebush [00:06:55] Yeah. Great. And you talked about these experienced people and I know you've told me before that you really felt like you couldn't have got where you've got without mentors. Can you tell us a little bit about those people that have been mentors to you? Courtney Pascoe [00:07:09] Yes, we had people like Brian McNicol, who was a previous Paralympic powerlifter and very experienced ITO and Julie Russell and also Martin as well. And in those first few, I assume it was about the first year to 18 months, they were around at competitions, obviously doing their role, but also hovering over our shoulders to make sure that we were doing things to a standard. And the standard is like, it's a high standard. So for me, I felt that pressure of like doing things right, but I also just knew that they were trying to keep that certain level that they'd work so hard to keep as officials in Australia as well. Brooke Kneebush [00:07:44] Fantastic. And how about you now that you do have some experience, are you mentoring others? Courtney Pascoe [00:07:52] Yes, I am. We've got other officials within Australia that are either about to sit a course to become qualified and we've got some other guys that are level threes and just sort of encouraging them to keep doing what we do at our national competitions and just be open to learning that, you know, even when you first start, you may not know exactly how things run, but yeah, we work well together as a team so that everyone knows what their role is and we help each other so yeah. Brooke Kneebush [00:08:18] And you kind of were lucky these mentors appeared for you and were in the right place at the right time for you. Do you have any ideas on how people, maybe they're in a smaller country town or they just can't see any mentors immediately, how they might be able to seek mentors out? Courtney Pascoe [00:08:37] Yeah, I think reach out, like reach out maybe to even Paralympics Australia to begin with so that you can find out where competitions are held. Come and watch your competition, watch your competition online and actually see how it works, volunteer at first. If you can volunteer and sort of see what's involved in a day of competition and sort of just ask how you can be involved as well. So there's YouTube and there's social media and things like that where you could actually see who's involved in what and who the athletes are. And then that sort of helps you to sort of understand what you could do. Yeah. Brooke Kneebush [00:09:11] Actually, something that just came to mind was like if you were looking to get started in officiating a sport and didn't know where to start and you had a friend who was keen to do it with you, wouldn't that be a great way? Because you can learn together, can't you? Courtney Pascoe [00:09:25] You do and you do and you make new friends and you just have so much fun like along the way when you're having these amazing days at competitions. That's good. Brooke Kneebush [00:09:34] Now, you were an athlete and you don't have a disability yourself, but you are involved in officiating powerlifting for people with and without disabilities. How do other officials you work alongside get involved initially? So have you got any stories about other people? Courtney Pascoe [00:09:52] I'm always asking the other officials, especially overseas when I meet them, what their background is and you'll often hear that. There are either previous para powerlifters themselves, they have a family member that may be involved in para powerlifting, or they've been a competitor themselves. Like this is a common theme I see. So other people may be involved in weightlifting or powerlifting in their own countries. So it's lovely to have that similar interest and then they've just naturally progressed into being involved in power powerlifting as well. And I think when you have been a competitor in a strength sport, you just have that passion and respect for the process of doing something hard and lifting a heavy weight and the warm up process and the nerves prior to that and the disappointment you feel when you actually don't make a lift and the adrenaline that you feel prior to or actually making a really good attempt. And I think when you can support that, the athletes, especially at

any level, at the local level or at international level, you then have that drive to commit to making sure a competition runs really smoothly. And you also know that when things don't go to plan, which can happen often, you want to keep it seamless and smooth so that the athletes and coaches have their process for competition running well. So I think having that background for a lot of people just inspires you to commit to these big long days of competition. Brooke Kneebush [00:11:14] You're really touching on the athlete being at the centre of what this is all about. And of course, that's the modern approach to officiating. Officials can have such a great influence on creating these amazing environments where people feel safe, included, welcome, and can work to achieve their goals in those environments. What other ways as an official can you contribute? Obviously you can't change the rules. Courtney Pascoe [00:11:39] No. Brooke Kneebush [00:11:40] What else can you do? Courtney Pascoe [00:11:41] Really clear on the rules and being aware of how to make sure everyone knows the rules, but doing it in a manner where it's encouraging and it's inclusive of everyone. Like you're not just enforcing rules without thinking of how it would feel if you were in that position as well. So like uniform wise or technicalities on the field of play or even weigh in processes. Like if you can be compassionate, passionate to how that athlete's feeling when they're about to go through something really challenging for themselves, that helps you to be a better official because you're making their competition experience more enjoyable as well, as well as keeping that standard of the sport. Brooke Kneebush [00:12:17] Yeah, absolutely. As I said, you know, the rules are the rules, but there's much, much more to it, isn't there? Courtney Pascoe [00:12:23] Yeah, and even when someone locally or at any level, when they actually miss an attempt or something happens and, you know, at first they're really disappointed or shocked with their result. It can help afterwards to sort of explain how it happens and what they could do next time to improve and even speaking with their coach if they have one. Sometimes people locally or in Australia don't always have a coach and explaining that if you did have a coach, this is how you could improve and sort of get yourself to that next level. Brooke Kneebush [00:12:48] Actually, the modern approach is really about this relationship between officials and coaches. But as you said, sometimes officials can take a little bit of a coaching role. It's not our job as officials to interfere, but when competition's finished and if there's some advice or some pointers or some explanation that you can give, especially to athletes who might not have their coach with them or may not have a coach at all. Courtney Pascoe [00:13:16] I find that in para powerlifting and in powerlifting as well. If you can see that something to help someone, I always offer

that advice because then it can make them be a better competitor and feel more confident in showing up for their next event as well. Brooke Kneebush [00:13:28] Absolutely. We've touched on this a little bit, but if someone was thinking this is something I'd like to get involved in, do you have any other suggestions on how they might be able to take that first step? Courtney Pascoe 00:13:42 Find out where competitions are being held in the sport that you're interested in. Volunteer, put your hand up to volunteer. It could be anything. It could be giving out waters on the day, maybe like, you know, helping prepare food. It might be something like, you know, setting up the chairs for an event, but start out by volunteering and sort of see how the sport runs. Ask questions of other officials or other people that are involved in the sport. But then when you really know that that's something you want to do, get aware of the rules and how you get yourself qualified. And just try and step up and be involved in whatever it is you want to do. And the more questions you ask, the more you find how you can get your foot in the door. And believe me, different sports always need volunteers. Most sports are based off people showing up and wanting to help. And without volunteers and people becoming officials, well, sports can't actually run. Brooke Kneebush 00:14:27 And you've also talked about once you do get involved, the community that's created and the social interactions that you're able to have. Courtney Pascoe [00:14:37] Yep, so many friendships come from like-minded people, being around people that like the same things as you, make really great friendships and hearing other people's stories about why they started, like everyone has a different reason for why they started. And it's really nice to meet people that way. Brooke Kneebush [00:14:52] And another thing I should mention is the Australian Sports Commission's Officiating Essential Skills course, which is a really great way to get online, do some modules that are quick, easy and accessible and give you a little bit of a head start on your officiating journey. So you started officiating powerlifting for people who don't have disabilities. Then you got involved in power powerlifting and you talked about the differences in the rules and it's almost like a totally different sport. Were there some things that helped you with that transition? Courtney Pascoe [00:15:30] To be honest, the transition into learning para powerlifting enhanced my love for powerlifting and for refereeing powerlifting. It taught me so much about precision and efficiency and extra attention to detail and that even carried over into my personal life and my business and even wanting to do something hard like bodybuilding because all that was about a process and being efficient and so opening myself up to being an official in a Paralympic sport then carried over personally for me. So it was a really good thing. Brooke Kneebush 00:16:01 Actually, I just love that you've talked about the benefits to the other parts of your life through officiating, because there is so much. Sometimes we get started because we feel needed. And as you said, you know, sports are always looking for volunteers. And sometimes we forget what we can actually get out of it and the value that it gives you. Courtney Pascoe [00:16:22] Yeah, it enhances your own skills. For me, as a personal trainer, I've worked in a gym, I've taught strength training, I've done all these things where I was very comfortable with doing. So when I first started, I probably felt very uncomfortable by the challenge of having to do something so efficiently and knowing so many rules. And then all of a sudden it just becomes part of how you operate. You know, that's how you be. And I think looking at a lot of the other technical officials from different countries, you see how precise they are and you know how efficient and capable they are. And then you sort of step up to that level. So at first it can feel overwhelming and then you realise that you're quite capable of doing something that's hard and challenging yourself while benefiting others as well. Brooke Kneebush [00:17:01] And that's probably why you're so able to juggle all of these other responsibilities with your officiating and you've got children as well, so you've got parenting to do in amongst that. Do you have any tips or can you share how you do manage to juggle all of these things you do. And you have to travel as well, right? Courtney Pascoe [00:17:23] Yeah, yes. So there's a lot of travel involved, which means taking time off from work. I'm self-employed, so there's a lot of planning that comes along with that. I'm lucky to have a very supportive mum and dad who help out with my boys. And the boys are getting older now, so they're getting a little bit more organised. But I feel like overall it's like looking at the calendar year and knowing what's coming up, what events are coming up, knowing when I'm competing myself, knowing when I'm not going to compete because there's other there. So being aware of busy periods and then also planning for downtime. Because if you always go, go, go, and naturally that does start to happen as the year cranks, you're not giving your best. But if you can plan to have like a little bit more balance with recharging and resting and things like that, then you can step up to when the next challenge is going to happen. So heaps of time management and being organised. So like having plans in place, not just with the kids, but with my own energy and sleep and when I'm going to study. And when we have to do re-accreditation, which is every four years with the Paralympic cycle, we are then tested again on the rules and you have to meet a certain standard. So when that comes up, you need to have that commitment to your study when you're there. And that's something you have to shuffle into the week so that you make time for that as

well. So the main thing is if you're not working for more and taking on challenge, you just become stagnant. So I think it's good to have these challenges within your life so that you can actually keep pushing forwards and enjoying hard things. Brooke Kneebush [00:18:46] And I love the way you're building into that the time for you and the time for recharging and that is really important for your well-being. Particularly for officials, building in time for yourself, because officiating can be challenging. There's so many rewards. We've talked about a lot of the rewards. We might talk about some challenges and how we can overcome them. But I think if it's all about officiating and we're not allowing time for ourselves, sometimes some of those challenges could become overwhelming. So have you faced any challenges in your officiating? I know sometimes officials make mistakes. Courtney Pascoe [00:19:26] Yeah. Oh, okay. With mistakes. Yes, definitely. That can happen. And I think the main thing I've learned is that it's a real team, team-based thing. So with power powerlifting, there's so many people on duty at one time. So you know that your little part of the team, it has to run well. I've been announcer many times and I've had to announce different countries and names in English and different challenges there with announcing the country's name even and the athlete's name. So over time you get a little bit more experience. You might go around to people in the warm up area, ask how to pronounce things and write it in your own words. Different things have happened with the recording of the competition. Like it's all recorded and there's sound and lighting. Locally in Australia, some of the challenges have been having enough people to run competitions, having enough volunteers, having enough equipment, having proper scales to weigh athletes on. We've had to put them on smaller scales and these people are trying to get out of their chair and weigh in and you just have to make people feel comfortable enough to know that that's part of your process. We need to have your body weight to weigh in, but letting them know that there's no rush, take your time, like everything's good, keeping calm. Over in the Paralympics, one of the challenges I faced was you're not really a part of the Australian team. So you have to obviously hold that standard of being a world powerlifting official and you're part of the IPC, you're representing them over there. So you can't cheer or show too much excitement for your own country. But when you know the athletes personally and you know how hard they've worked and you're really proud, there's that sense of pride, you have to hold that in. And honestly, that was probably one of the most challenging things there. But to be fair, you need to do that for all the countries. Brooke Kneebush [00:21:05] And so yes, there are challenges, but there are ways to overcome them. And I love the way you talk about the team that's around you because you're not alone. Courtney Pascoe [00:21:14] And a lot of the time, even at the highest level, if there is something you didn't do to the best standard, there's people that come up and they'll give you their two cents worth on how you can do it better. And I think when you're open to saying, okay, no worries and taking on board what they're trying to do because they're trying to help you get to a better level, that then enhances how you can improve for next time. I think you could take it as criticism or an attack and you get really embarrassed by not doing something on time or when you should have done it, then it's not going to sort of help you to get better at what you do. Because most of the time the other guys remember where they were at a certain level and they're just trying to help you to become better. Yeah. Brooke Kneebush 00:21:52 And now that brings me to my next question, which is there's obviously a pathway to follow to selected to officiate at the Paralympic Games. Did you understand or know much about that when you got started? Courtney Pascoe [00:22:07] Oh, when I got started, I heard so many amazing stories about the experience. I was taught our course by the commander who is a Malaysian. He was a Malaysian technical official and he has so much experience. And it was sort of just something you dreamed of, like you just imagined. Like even to go to a World Cup overseas, you thought, oh, that's probably not going to happen for another decade. And then you start to see the athletes from Australia, they were going to different events. And I just wondered how you could get to that level. So obviously you need to get, you need to be renewing your accreditation all the time to keep up to date. And sometimes you need to put your hand up and actually offer to pay your own travel or to include some self-funding so that you can put yourself out there to the world team who runs the international events. And then when they can see that you're actually keen to do more, then you might get invited to more different events to get that different experience. And to be honest, it wasn't until you saw competitions at an international level that a lot of the rules then make sense. You're like, oh, okay, right. This is an athlete's presentation. This is the warm-up area. This is the call area. And you start to see things from the rule book and it all clicks. Then you're like, oh, right. Brooke Kneebush [00:23:16] And you talked about self-funding and almost always to start with officiating it's voluntary certainly here in Australia in some sports at some stages some officials do get paid and sometimes there might be a per diem which covers a little bit of some of the expenses involved but sometimes self-funding is a way to help progress you through the journey no one's forcing you to spend your own funds, but sometimes there are opportunities. You're not paying your way into getting selected, you're paying to have the experience. And I know

myself, I've sometimes self-funded and tied it in with other things and got to have a holiday with the family attached to visiting and observing at an event. Courtney Pascoe [00:24:06] For yourself, if you can do that and have a bit of a trip or something afterwards, you're only enhancing your knowledge and experience by doing that. Because when you get there and you have these amazing days of competition and meet new people, it just opens your eyes up to what other opportunities are available for you to do. And it also shows that you're committed to wanting to improve as an official as well. Brooke Kneebush 00:24:30 And I imagine it's similar with powerlifting and para powerlifting. In Australia, we are quite a long way away from where a lot of the events are going on. Sometimes we sort of say they're Europe centric, but sometimes Asia's a lot closer and it might be possible to go to an international event in Asia. Is that similar for your experience? Courtney Pascoe [00:24:53] Yeah, that's correct. Where did I go first? Korea was my very first international event. And then and I did the Asian Para Games in China, which was a eye-opening event, very different place to visit, but seeing all the different countries come together there, that was really cool and starting to understand more of how the regions in the world operate for para powerlifting too. And one of my goals that I have over the next few years is to be able to run a World Cup or hold an event down here in Australia before we get to Brisbane and have all the athletes and coaches be able to come and run a competition here. Brooke Kneebush [00:25:27] And actually the good news is that the Para Uplift program, which you can Google and it's on the Australian Sports Commission's website, learn more about, some of that funding and the strategic planning for that is to have more events in Australia. Courtney Pascoe [00:25:46] It'll be so fun. Fun for our athletes. It'll be fun for any of the Oceana athletes that are around to bring everyone together. And yeah, it'd be really cool to have it down here in Australia where we're a massive sporting nation. So I think the more that people can see how a Paralympic sport is ran, the more people will want to support it and be involved. Brooke Kneebush [00:26:04] For sure. Now, can I take you back to when you were just getting started with officiating? What do you wish you knew then that you do know now? Courtney Pascoe [00:26:14] That I would understand the rules one day and that it's a constant evolving process that you never know everything, but you have to be okay with the constant learning of things and to know that most people are there to support and help you to improve yourself as an official and that you as an official can support and enhance the athletes and coaches experience by being organized, being on time, helping with setup and things like that at competitions. And just like the amazing friendships that you make with people from other

countries and different athletes. If I could tell myself all that at the start, I probably wouldn't have been as nervous about learning all the rules and things like that. Brooke Kneebush [00:26:57] Yeah, great. I can just hear in your voice, I wish our listeners could see your animation and your passion, but I'm sure that they can hear it through the stories that you're telling. Is there anything else that you'd like to share with our listeners about the journey to becoming a sports official? Courtney Pascoe [00:27:15] Once you get started and you put yourself into the process of teamwork and volunteering and giving up your time, sometimes at the end of the week you know you've got an event on and it feels like it's like, okay, here we go, another day. But the end of every day of competition, no matter where it is, it could be locally here, it could be at an international event, there's some of the best days of your life, like seeing other people succeed and work hard and achieve, overcome certain things, like it's awesome to be involved in. So I feel very grateful for the experience and I just love the different conversations and friendships that you can make from having like-minded passions and being often an opportunity to sort of be involved in a strength sport like para powerlifting. Brooke Kneebush [00:28:00] Fabulous. Now finally, while officiating can be challenging at times, we've talked about some of the challenges, of course it can be also extremely rewarding. Is there a particularly rewarding experience, perhaps one from your international experience, one at the community level that you'd like to share with the listeners? Courtney Pascoe 00:28:18 I think at the community level, even recently we had a come and try day in Sydney and just hearing the people's stories, like I love hearing why they started going to the gym at first and then how they were introduced to wanting to compete. And when you get someone that's fairly new, they have a bit of self-doubt. Oh, I don't know if I can do this. I'm not good enough. And when you explain that you don't have to be good enough, you just have to start and do your best. You then start to see the confidence in people grow and the, I think it gives them a bit of purpose and they know what they're going to do week after week with training and when the next event is. And they see people like Hani, who was our Australian female at the Paralympic Games, they see someone like that and they realise that they could be at that level if they keep working hard. And that just, that makes me so happy. So that's a lovely, lovely thing that I've seen locally. And internationally, even just seeing athletes from from countries where they live very differently to how we do in Australia and see them show up and represent their country and being so proud of their achievements, seeing their joy of maybe even placing top three and getting a medal or even just PB their own lifts, like seeing that celebration that they have with their coach. And I feel that every time, especially when I get to stand at the exit to the platform and you see the coach celebrating with them and there might be tears from the athlete, like I love that feeling. And you've sort of just to hold yourself there as well. But I love that energy of either when they're entering or exiting the field of play and you see them be successful at what they've done. Like it's really nice environment to be around. Brooke Kneebush 00:29:53 Officiating, honestly, it's the best seat in the house, isn't it? Now, Courtney, you told me about another big goal that you've got with your officiating. Do you want to share that? Courtney Pascoe 00:30:05 I would love to be able to work towards getting more experience. And when 2032 rolls around and we have the Paralympics here in Brisbane, I would like to work towards being the technical delegate, which is a big responsibility and a long way to go yet. But I like to sort of set the bar high and hopefully we'll see where I can get to with my experience and see that opportunities there. Brooke Kneebush 00:30:28 So I'm really excited to continue to stay in contact with you over the journey, the runway to Brisbane 32 and to replay this podcast and see that you actually have made it. And you've talked about the preciseness and the planning that needs to go into being an official for powerlifting and para powerlifting. And I know that you actually have a plan for how you're going to get to that goal. What are some of the steps that you'll need to do along the way to that goal? Courtney Pascoe [00:31:00] I think just keeping up to date with all of the rules and obviously all the re-accreditation. I'm currently a level 2 international technical official. I'll obviously need to be a level 1. So that's the continual study and experience. At the moment, I don't actually sit in the referee's chair at international events. So that's something I want to get more experience with over time and doing some of the harder roles that sort of show you around the entire team with what you need to do. Just continually asking questions, finding out how other people did things and learning from them so that you can get better at what you're doing yourself. Yeah. Brooke Kneebush [00:31:36] And I have no doubt that you'll get there and I am sure that some of the listeners to this podcast are going to be inspired to take up officiating and we certainly could be seeing them somewhere involved in officiating at the Paralympic or Olympic Games in 2032 because what our listeners might not actually realise is that when a games are held in Australia, the host country not only would provide the number of officials that they would normally to go to a Paralympics or Olympic Games, but there's a whole host of other roles that are required and the host country needs to provide them. So there are going to be so many opportunities, which is really exciting. Courtney Pascoe [00:32:20] It's so much teamwork. So if you are interested in being involved in any sport, it's about putting your hands up and looking into it maybe now and trying to get some experience because this event's going to be huge to have that here in Australia. So getting involved now and actually asking questions and putting yourself out there to be involved in a sport that you love. Brooke Kneebush [00:32:39] What a perfect note to end on. So thank you for sharing your time with us, Courtney, and for your insights. It's just been amazing hearing from you. And as I said, I just love the passion that you've got. I'm sure so many people are going to be inspired to get involved in officiating, to support others to get involved as well, and to start their journeys and make it a little bit easier along the way. So thank you to our audience for listening. To learn more about community officiating, head to the Australian Sports Commission's Community Officiating webpage. I'm Brooke Kneebush and I look forward to you joining me for the next podcast in the Coaching and Officiating series. This podcast was produced on the lands of the Ngunnawal people by the Australian Sports Commission. We pay our respects to their elders past and present and recognise the outstanding contribution that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people make in society and sport in Australia.