התמלול המלא של Inside BrainStim: A Halifax Clinic Using Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation to treat PTSD

I was uh I found myself in uniform. 00:01:57.940 --> 00:01:58.020 Wow. 00:01:58.420 --> 00:01:59.700 And it's been nonstop. 00:02:00.100 --> 00:02:08.180 So those so many years later, because we're gonna talk about brainstem today, I think primarily like did you yourself encounter barriers when seeking mental health? 00:02:08.340 --> 00:02:09.939 Is that what started this kind of quest? 00:02:10.020 --> 00:02:19.139 Or did you see friends suffering or or or what what was the what was the drive to go from the Yeah, well, I I was in the health services in the military. 00:02:19.300 --> 00:02:20.659 So we need to start that story first. 00:02:20.979 --> 00:02:21.539 Yes, yeah, sure. 00:02:22.419 --> 00:02:27.459 So so I I started off working as what was called a health services officer. 00:02:27.539 --> 00:02:29.299 That was my career path. 00:02:29.459 --> 00:02:38.819 And I served at the tactical level, the operational level, and the strategic level uh throughout my career, had several deployments uh during that time frame. 00:02:39.219 --> 00:02:40.979 So I'm a healthcare executive. 00:02:41.139 --> 00:03:00.739 And so I ended up my career in 2016 as a deputy commander of the Canadian Armed Forces Health Services, which was a phenomenal job because I was responsible for the day-to-day operations of clinics across Canada, support to the Navy, support to the Air Force and operations because you know Afghanistan was still going on at that time. 00:03:01.219 --> 00:03:08.979 And so when I retired, I wanted to maintain what I was doing from a healthcare perspective about access to care. 00:03:09.139 --> 00:03:13.139 And that's one of the biggest challenges veterans have is lack of access to care. 00:03:13.299 --> 00:03:26.259 You talk to any veteran, read, pick up a newspaper, listen to a other podcast, and veterans are complaining that they don't have access to good quality care, whether it's primary care or whether it's mental health care, which is why we're here today. 00:03:26.579 --> 00:03:30.179 So when I first retired, I got into the cannabis world. 00:03:30.340 --> 00:03:33.859 Okay, that was even prior to legalization in 2018. 00:03:34.019 --> 00:03:36.979 I was working for a very small company out of Alberta. 00:03:37.139 --> 00:03:50.899 And my goal was to, you know, educate veterans on cannabis, the do's and don'ts, because most veterans, when they start the cannabis therapy, they're they're sent a box of uh 30 grams of weed and have a good day, guys. 00:03:51.060 --> 00:03:53.060 You know, there's you know, there's no instructions. 00:03:53.219 --> 00:04:00.659 And so that was my mandate was to get out there and educate uh veterans on the the medical cannabis side of the house. 00:04:00.739 --> 00:04:05.620 Aaron Powell When did the military come around on using cannabis for like any type of treatment? 00:04:06.099 --> 00:04:08.099 Well, I don't think the military ever came around. 00:04:08.259 --> 00:04:08.979 Veterans did, right? 00:04:09.139 --> 00:04:10.099 VAC and VAC came around. 00:04:10.419 --> 00:04:10.659 Fair enough. 00:04:10.739 --> 00:04:10.819 Okay. 00:04:11.139 --> 00:04:16.180 So so I think because I only want to speak to VAC, I don't want to speak about protocols and processes and the CAF. 00:04:16.740 --> 00:04:19.540 But VAC came around some time ago. 00:04:19.780 --> 00:04:24.500 You know, like even before 2018, you know, veterans were getting access to cannabis. 00:04:24.660 --> 00:04:26.819 It was through special request, of course, at the time. 00:04:27.060 --> 00:04:27.699 Yeah, I remember this. 00:04:27.939 --> 00:04:37.620 Yeah, but now it's it's it's like uh you know, you know, it's easy access through, you know, you it it's not as hard to get the cannabis approval as it was 15, 20 years ago. 00:04:38.019 --> 00:04:48.500 Yeah, and it's it's just it honestly just kind of felt like that like the veterans really kind of embraced that and were a little bit ahead of the their time, I guess. 00:04:48.740 --> 00:04:52.420 Right before other doctors who were even really embracing it, like outside of military use. 00:04:52.740 --> 00:04:53.459 Yeah, absolutely. 00:04:53.620 --> 00:05:03.060 Like most veterans nowadays, you know, uh you know, they they look at cannabis as as an active treatment for their PTSD symptoms, their anxiety, their depression. 00:05:03.300 --> 00:05:08.259 A lot of cannabis is used for for sleep because one of the biggest issues facing veterans is sleep. 00:05:08.420 --> 00:05:09.779 I can't get any sleep. 00:05:10.019 --> 00:05:13.539 Like the morning I flew here, I was up all night. 00:05:13.620 --> 00:05:14.259 I couldn't sleep. 00:05:14.420 --> 00:05:16.099 You know, I just couldn't get a good night's sleep. 00:05:16.259 --> 00:05:20.339 So I just got up at two o'clock in the morning, had coffee, made breakfast, and headed out to the airport. 00:05:20.659 --> 00:05:23.539 Why do you think that is like when you think veterans just can't get any sleep? 00:05:23.620 --> 00:05:26.740 Do you think it's all related to PTSD, or do you think it's related to an array of reasons? 00:05:27.060 --> 00:05:28.819 So I think it's it's kind of a holistic approach. 00:05:29.219 --> 00:05:35.860 Of course, it's the PTSD, the anxiety, the depression, but it could be other factors in their lives that uh are underlying. 00:05:37.300 --> 00:05:38.259 Anything to do with the training? 00:05:38.420 --> 00:05:46.819 Because I mean, like I spent three years in the Army Reserve and I remember like yeah, like I mean, I was young enough, I was a late teenager, right? 00:05:46.899 --> 00:05:50.099 Almost like but so it was fine back at that point. 00:05:50.339 --> 00:05:50.579 Right. 00:05:50.740 --> 00:05:58.740 But you know, they they do drills and like training and where you you know you're work they wake you up from two to three to you know do perimeters and all this other stuff. 00:05:58.819 --> 00:06:00.259 So you're like always on. 00:06:01.060 -->

00:06:03.699 Like I wonder if that's kind of a sum of it either. 00:06:03.779 --> 00:06:04.740 Yeah, part of it too. 00:06:04.980 --> 00:06:06.899 You know, I like I look back on my training. 00:06:06.980 --> 00:06:10.259 My training took place in 1985, believe it or not. 00:06:10.420 --> 00:06:15.539 And I know I look a lot younger than my my chronological age, but it it was hard. 00:06:15.699 --> 00:06:20.980 Like it was, you know, the army was the military was different back in the 80s and the 70s and 60s. 00:06:21.219 --> 00:06:22.819 It's it's a generational thing, right? 00:06:23.219 --> 00:06:23.459 100%. 00:06:23.860 --> 00:06:27.060 And I'm not going to talk about what the army looks like today or the Navy or the Air Force. 00:06:27.139 --> 00:06:29.459 It's not my partship because I'm I'm no longer serving. 00:06:29.699 --> 00:06:37.379 But when I reflect back on my career, it it was it was a very, you know, strictly run regimental capability. 00:06:37.539 --> 00:06:45.779 You know, it's it's you do this, you do that, you go right, and you go left, and you're you're told when you know the old expression in the army is great coats on, great coats off. 00:06:45.939 --> 00:06:47.620 You know, it's just the way it was. 00:06:47.860 --> 00:06:52.819 And it was very stressful, you know, and a lot of a lot of candidates there. 00:06:53.060 --> 00:06:58.980 We were officer cadets at the time, and I I would say the dropout rate was about 20, 20 percent. 00:06:59.139 --> 00:06:59.459 Yeah. 00:06:59.779 --> 00:07:00.420 20 percent. 00:07:00.659 --> 00:07:09.860 It was demanding, you know, yelling, constantly yelling at you, you know, at times physically you know, not abusive, but you know, it was aggressive, aggressive training. 00:07:10.019 --> 00:07:11.060 Yeah, aggressive training. 00:07:11.300 --> 00:07:22.099 I I know like I so I joined in 2001 and I even I then they were talking about how different the military was, you know, just 15, 20 years prior to that. 00:07:22.420 --> 00:07:22.659 Absolutely. 00:07:22.899 --> 00:07:31.459 And even then I kind of I think back now when I put my 2026 brain on and I think about some of the things that were said to people, and I was kind of, ooh, yeah, we can get away with that today. 00:07:31.699 --> 00:07:33.060 No, absolutely not. 00:07:33.300 --> 00:07:35.699 Like, you know, I I could you know huge stories. 00:07:35.860 --> 00:07:42.019 And at the time they were they were very at times traumatic, but uh I reflect back and it was a lot of fun. 00:07:42.180 --> 00:07:43.860 You know I love my time in the military. 00:07:44.180 --> 00:07:46.819 But some people watched Full Metal Jacket a little bit too many times. 00:07:47.379 --> 00:07:48.579 Yeah, absolutely. 00:07:48.819 --> 00:07:51.539 But uh no, if if if you asked me, would I do it again? 00:07:51.779 --> 00:07:52.659 Of course I'd do it again. 00:07:52.740 --> 00:07:52.819 Yeah. 00:07:52.980 --> 00:07:54.420 I'd probably be younger. 00:07:54.579 --> 00:07:58.980 I'd want to join when I was, you know, when you joined at 18, 19 years old. 00:07:59.139 --> 00:08:00.980 I was 28, turning 29. 00:08:01.060 --> 00:08:03.620 Like I was the old man in the platoon, you know. 00:08:03.860 --> 00:08:04.019 Right. 00:08:04.259 --> 00:08:10.019 And and when I got to my unit, uh, which is was in Calgary, which no longer exists, had one brigade. 00:08:10.180 --> 00:08:15.459 You know, I was I was kind of the oldest guy in the whole unit, you know, because everybody was so much younger. 00:08:15.939 --> 00:08:24.659 And that was a challenge too, because I had been, you know, I was a geologist, I'd worked in the field, I'd spent a lot of time in harsh conditions. 00:08:24.899 --> 00:08:28.819 And here I am in the military now and different training ethos. 00:08:29.139 --> 00:08:30.339 We were training for war. 00:08:30.500 --> 00:08:32.820 This is when the Warsaw Pact was still in place. 00:08:32.899 --> 00:08:35.300 It was prior to the Berlin Wall coming down. 00:08:35.539 --> 00:08:36.180 Remember that? 00:08:36.420 --> 00:08:48.340 And you know, I remember I was flown to Europe for a what was called Folex, and it was the time when Gorbachev met with Reagan in Iceland. 00:08:48.819 --> 00:08:55.539 And and I remember we were flying that day from Calgary into Lar, and and the the talks broke off. 00:08:55.779 --> 00:08:57.539 And we thought, fuck, we're going to war. 00:08:57.700 --> 00:08:58.580 We're going to war, guys. 00:08:59.220 --> 00:08:59.379 Yeah. 00:08:59.620 --> 00:09:01.620 So there was a lot of tension back then. 00:09:01.860 --> 00:09:09.299 And uh, you know, when I was a kid, we still had uh we used to sit under uh Heidner desktops from uh Nuclear Fallout, right? 00:09:09.460 --> 00:09:12.179 This is back in the 60s, the Cuban Missile Crisis, right? 00:09:12.259 --> 00:09:13.620 Yeah, and that was pretty wild. 00:09:13.700 --> 00:09:16.580 And you know, uh it was uh it's a generational thing. 00:09:16.819 --> 00:09:22.100 And you look at what's the what's facing the generation today, there's so many things facing the generations today. 00:09:22.419 --> 00:09:28.740 Yeah, I mean uh certainly I mean the military culture has changed a little, but I mean people are still coming back with traumas, that's for sure. 00:09:28.980 --> 00:09:35.539 I mean I mean, and that's that's something that's not gonna get better probably ever as long as there's war as a is a grim reality. 00:09:36.019 --> 00:09:39.700 Yeah, but that's that that's something that is hard to change about the military. 00:09:39.779 --> 00:09:44.100 Like what what we can control and what has changed is how the training gets done. 00:09:44.179 --> 00:09:50.100 And still I mean the more so like when they get out is still an issue, right? 00:09:50.419 --> 00:09:52.019 Which is what we're that's why we're here. 00:09:52.419 --> 00:09:53.379 Yeah, that's why you guys are here. 00:09:53.939 --> 00:09:57.299 And it's it you know, it goes

back to that little line I said, access to care. 00:09:57.700 --> 00:10:01.700 You know, that was what kind of my personal mantra when I retired was access to care. 00:10:01.860 --> 00:10:07.539 So we started off with cannabis, and then I went into I stood up a company for with psilocybin. 00:10:07.860 --> 00:10:10.740 We were looking at it was called cannabis 2.0, right? 00:10:10.819 --> 00:10:20.580 Because we had that big bubble with the cannabis world where you know there were companies out there making trillions of dollars off the sale of cannabis, and then poof, the the the floor fell out. 00:10:20.659 --> 00:10:20.740 Right. 00:10:20.899 --> 00:10:25.379 And then everybody kind of transitioned over to psilocybin and and psychedelics. 00:10:25.860 --> 00:10:40.659 So I I did a paper company with a a colleague, a former colleague who was a psychiatrist, and we put together this, it was more or less a an academic exercise looking at the the impact that psilocybin would have on veterans. 00:10:40.819 --> 00:10:51.299 And if you pick up the newspaper today, you know, there's a lot of work and a lot of effort going on about various modalities of psychedelic therapy that are very useful for veterans. 00:10:51.460 --> 00:11:25.729 It's not my area of expertise, I don't want to really give a lot, but there's a lot of veterans out there working very hard to get this capability to to veterans. 00:11:25.969 --> 00:11:36.049 But, you know, we do we do use ketamine here in our clinic here at all our clinics across Canada, which is which is you know still classified according to Health Canada as a psychedelic. 00:11:36.769 --> 00:11:43.249 We We kind of had a we had a guest in our first season, Tim Brody, so obviously you know Tim quite well. 00:11:43.569 --> 00:11:46.289 But it sounds he told a story in that podcast. 00:11:46.449 --> 00:11:48.369 People go back and listen to it, but I'll just use a reference. 00:11:48.449 --> 00:11:50.289 And it sounds like this is what you guys are doing here. 00:11:50.369 --> 00:11:56.689 He talked about the indigenous folk combing the snakes out of their hair when they came back from like battle. 00:11:56.929 --> 00:11:57.009 Right. 00:11:57.249 --> 00:12:01.969 And it sounds like that's really what you're trying to achieve here for people is combing the snakes out of their hair. 00:12:02.609 --> 00:12:04.289 Yeah, I I met Tim. 00:12:04.369 --> 00:12:05.809 You know, Tim, Tim's a great guy. 00:12:05.889 --> 00:12:11.729 He was one of the first um individuals I met here in Halifax before we even stood up this clinic. 00:12:11.809 --> 00:12:16.209 I was intro introduced to Tim, and as a matter of fact, he's the one that told me I should get on this show. 00:12:16.529 --> 00:12:17.089 Yes, that's yeah. 00:12:17.489 --> 00:12:20.129 That's uh so that you know it's we've come full circle here. 00:12:20.449 --> 00:12:22.689 And we Tim comes to this clinic with clients. 00:12:23.489 --> 00:12:24.689 So Tim's a great guy. 00:12:24.769 --> 00:12:26.689 He's a former I bug him about this a lot. 00:12:26.769 --> 00:12:27.969 He was a logistics officer. 00:12:28.129 --> 00:12:29.569 Yeah, yeah, that's okay. 00:12:29.889 --> 00:12:40.289 But so but Tim, uh, you know, we're we're all put we're all part of that, you know, conglomerate of people that just want to help veterans. 00:12:40.369 --> 00:12:40.449 Right. 00:12:40.609 --> 00:12:41.809 That's all we want to do. 00:12:41.889 --> 00:12:45.889 And and there are so many of us out there that want to help veterans. 00:12:46.049 --> 00:12:56.129 And in the city of Ottawa, I live in Ottawa, and the city of Ottawa, the mayor's office, has what's called a veterans task force that he oversees. 00:12:56.529 --> 00:12:58.689 And we have three pillars of care. 00:12:59.009 --> 00:13:03.969 One is education, one is employment, two is homelessness, and three is health care. 00:13:04.529 --> 00:13:04.849 Okay. 00:13:05.409 --> 00:13:16.289 And what we did is, and and it it's it's it's got a large following because you know, we we kind of we the the city does a good job marketing what we do, and they kind of leverage us. 00:13:16.609 --> 00:13:22.529 And we go to a lot of events on the hill in Ottawa, and we meet a lot of politicians and et cetera, et cetera. 00:13:23.169 --> 00:13:34.769 But what we did is about uh six months ago, we we had a meeting where we brought in a room full of providers that look after veterans. 00:13:35.089 --> 00:13:38.129 And we said, well, what do we need to do here as a team? 00:13:38.289 --> 00:13:40.049 This is a non-com competition. 00:13:40.369 --> 00:13:42.609 There's no non-compet competition. 00:13:42.769 --> 00:13:44.129 We just want to help veterans. 00:13:44.369 --> 00:13:48.849 And so we've come up with this strategy that's still under development right now in Ottawa. 00:13:49.249 --> 00:13:58.769 And I think it's something that we want to be able to go to any municipality across the country and say, here's the blueprint about how to better care for veterans. 00:13:58.929 --> 00:13:59.169 Yes. 00:13:59.329 --> 00:14:00.209 It's as simple as that. 00:14:00.529 --> 00:14:01.569 I I love I love it. 00:14:01.649 --> 00:14:08.289 I I mean, I really think, you know, uh whether it's psychedelic therapy, I don't know enough about the therapies to speak on them, right? 00:14:08.369 --> 00:14:13.249 You know, and I mean I understand someone can be controversial when you start talking about drugs into the equation. 00:14:13.409 --> 00:14:17.569 And just that's just a reality, but that's no different from any drugs we take, right? 00:14:17.649 --> 00:14:22.129 But uh well as long as it's you know it's gotta be controlled under under you know clinical supervision. 00:14:22.289 --> 00:14:22.369 Right. 00:14:22.529 --> 00:14:24.449 I think that's the critical phase here. 00:14:24.529 --> 00:14:26.449 It's got to be under clinical supervision. 00:14:26.769 --> 00:14:36.529 And and that's why brainstem, you

know, because we work under the guidance of Veterans Affairs Canada through their their their pearls of wisdom on treatment. 00:14:36.769 --> 00:14:41.729 And uh we have to have a psychiatrist in the clinic while there's treatment ongoing. 00:14:42.129 --> 00:14:47.089 So at the end of the day, we're we're we're a psychiatry-led organization. 00:14:47.489 --> 00:14:50.449 You know, it's not a bunch of voodoo medicine going on here. 00:14:50.529 --> 00:14:56.129 You know, we've we've got we've got psychiatrists that come into the office here to the clinic every day. 00:14:56.289 --> 00:15:01.089 And as long as there's one veteran in the clinic, there has to be a psychiatrist, right? 00:15:01.409 --> 00:15:05.729 So that's that's we're psychiatry-led, we're interventional psychiatry. 00:15:05.809 --> 00:15:09.569 You know, we don't deal with first-line psychiatry here, we're interventional. 00:15:09.809 --> 00:15:11.649 So patients are either referred to us. 00:15:12.689 --> 00:15:12.769 Okay. 00:15:13.089 --> 00:15:14.289 Yeah, they're they're referred to us. 00:15:14.369 --> 00:15:16.049 So you can refer it yourself online. 00:15:16.369 --> 00:15:27.089 A veteran can send me an email, and then we get the we have a navigation team in Vancouver, and they help guide the veteran from start to finish, right? 00:15:27.249 --> 00:15:35.249 They do the onboarding process, they set up a psychiatric assessment with one of our psychiatrists, and then we go to VAC for approval. 00:15:35.569 --> 00:15:47.569 And the key here is that a veteran has to present with a VAC disability award for PTSD, anxiety, depression, and chronic pain, or all one of the three. 00:15:47.809 --> 00:15:51.889 And we go to VAC and VAC comes back with the approval process. 00:15:52.049 --> 00:15:55.809 And we've been extremely successful because we follow their guidelines. 00:15:56.049 --> 00:15:56.209 Right. 00:15:56.609 --> 00:16:02.369 So, you know, I I don't think we've had any, you know, no shows or nil returns from VAC. 00:16:02.849 --> 00:16:15.889 From the veteran perspective, like how many people are open to this type of therapy and how many other people like think it's just getting high or just you know, uh too experimental and they're scared of you know going to a going to a machine for assistance? 00:16:16.129 --> 00:16:21.089 Like what yeah, how do you feel like people feel about that when you when these are I'm just gonna give you my perspective on that? 00:16:21.329 --> 00:16:21.489 Yeah. 00:16:21.649 --> 00:16:21.889 Yeah. 00:16:21.969 --> 00:16:35.249 So so from a clinical perspective, you know, that's when you go through the onboarding process with our team, the psychiatrist sits down with a veteran and they go through all of those questions because every veteran has a thousand questions. 00:16:35.409 --> 00:16:39.889 Because one thing about veterans, they're very well informed when it comes to their own health care, right? 00:16:40.049 --> 00:16:48.689 They they they want to make sure that if they're if if they're going to see provider A or B that they're getting the the real meal deal here, right? 00:16:49.249 --> 00:17:04.450 So but the the the outcomes are are quite amazing because what I do in Ottawa, because I, you know, there's a clinic in Ottawa, I meet with the veterans on the first day of the program, and then I drop by on the fifth day, which is the final day of the program. 00:17:04.849 --> 00:17:07.890 And the changes are just amazing. 00:17:08.129 --> 00:17:15.569 But before that, to answer the question, because I was gonna go down another path here, is that TMS has been around for 40 years. 00:17:16.049 --> 00:17:19.250 Like it's not something that was invented six months ago or two years ago. 00:17:19.569 --> 00:17:21.809 And and to people that don't know what TMS is, what's that acronym? 00:17:22.129 --> 00:17:24.769 TMS stands for transcranial magnetic stimulation. 00:17:25.009 --> 00:17:25.170 Right. 00:17:25.410 --> 00:17:26.210 And there are two types. 00:17:26.289 --> 00:17:27.490 There's the big scary word. 00:17:27.809 --> 00:17:29.569 Yeah, it is a yeah, it's it's it's a mouthful. 00:17:29.730 --> 00:17:29.809 Yeah. 00:17:29.890 --> 00:17:32.609 You know, transcranial magnetic stimulation. 00:17:32.849 --> 00:17:34.930 And people get a little bit freaky about that. 00:17:35.089 --> 00:17:36.049 Well, you saw the machine. 00:17:36.369 --> 00:17:36.529 Yes. 00:17:36.769 --> 00:17:36.930 Yeah. 00:17:37.009 --> 00:17:40.210 So, you know, when I show you the coil and it looks like something out of sci-fi. 00:17:41.089 --> 00:17:41.490 Yeah, exactly. 00:17:41.569 --> 00:17:41.650 Right. 00:17:47.009 --> 00:17:50.210 So it stays on uh before the uh clinician can do their work. 00:17:50.529 --> 00:17:52.289 Yeah, it's it's quite intimidating looking. 00:17:52.769 --> 00:18:00.369 It is intimidating, but at the end of the day, you know, you'll find that a lot of veterans, when they're going through the protocol, they fall asleep while the the uh the TMS is running. 00:18:00.609 --> 00:18:01.089 Oh yeah, okay. 00:18:01.250 --> 00:18:01.329 Yeah. 00:18:01.490 --> 00:18:02.849 So we'll talk about that in a second. 00:18:03.009 --> 00:18:10.529 But but I I think if you look at the data out there, the data is very impressive about outcomes, wellness outcomes. 00:18:11.009 --> 00:18:22.529 And one of the most what makes me happy a as a veteran in the healthcare space is that I find that if you talk to a veteran on the fifth day, they'll say, I feel happy. 00:18:23.089 --> 00:18:25.009 Something's changed in my life. 00:18:25.490 --> 00:18:27.730 Okay, and I don't know, they can't explain it. 00:18:28.129 --> 00:18:42.450 But they say, talk to my wife and she'll explain it to you because there's a lot of anecdotal evidence out there, and there's I got I could give you sit here for an hour and talk about testimonials, but you guys don't want to hear that. 00:18:42.769 --> 00:18:57.649 What I want

to tell you is that the testimonials will what they say is that I feel better, my PTSD is down, I'm sleeping, I'm happier, my wife loves me, my husband loves me, and I feel more comfortable in my life. 00:18:57.889 --> 00:18:59.089 And that's what it's all about. 00:18:59.490 --> 00:19:03.409 Is this something that like would h like in your experience there? 00:19:03.569 --> 00:19:06.049 Like, have you seen it that like it's something that needs to be ongoing? 00:19:06.129 --> 00:19:15.089 Is it like you know, every six months that someone needs to kind of like check in to kind of like do you see permanent effects or do you see something where it's like, yeah, you need a bit of a check-in once in a while? 00:19:15.569 --> 00:19:16.689 Yeah, that that's a great question. 00:19:16.769 --> 00:19:18.369 It's all about sustainability, right? 00:19:18.529 --> 00:19:18.769 Yeah. 00:19:19.009 --> 00:19:29.169 And so what it is is that it's a five-day accelerated program where you come in on a Monday morning, and of course you're seen by the psychiatrist, and that's mandatory. 00:19:29.409 --> 00:19:36.129 So so what happens is you get five to six treatments over the course of the six hours you're here at the clinic. 00:19:36.289 --> 00:19:47.089 So you come in, you get set up, you meet, you met Ilian, he's our senior TMS transcranial magnetic stimulation technician, real smart guy, and he's got a neuroscience background. 00:19:47.250 --> 00:19:51.169 Most of our technicians all have neurobiology or neurosciences behind their names. 00:19:51.250 --> 00:19:55.809 So these are these are really big brain people and they know a lot about the brain and how it works. 00:19:56.129 --> 00:20:02.609 So you you come in, you get a briefing from the team, and the first session you go in, you get the cap put on. 00:20:02.689 --> 00:20:05.809 It take takes about 20 minutes to get everything situated. 00:20:06.129 --> 00:20:10.769 And then the the treatment lasts 9.9 minutes and 30 seconds. 00:20:11.009 --> 00:20:11.490 Oh, wow. 00:20:11.970 --> 00:20:12.210 Short. 00:20:12.369 --> 00:20:12.529 Okay. 00:20:12.769 --> 00:20:12.929 Yeah. 00:20:13.009 --> 00:20:14.689 So you you go in there, you sit down. 00:20:14.769 --> 00:20:16.929 Like it looks intimidating in there, but it's really not. 00:20:17.009 --> 00:20:17.649 It's quite relaxing. 00:20:17.889 --> 00:20:20.129 Does it feel like 35 years to the patient or something weird? 00:20:20.450 --> 00:20:22.609 No, because some guys, some guys and gals fall asleep, right? 00:20:22.769 --> 00:20:23.009 Okay, yeah. 00:20:23.250 --> 00:20:24.049 Yeah, they'll doze off. 00:20:25.889 --> 00:20:35.089 And some people listen, we we play music in the background, like kind of zen music, and uh it's very, you know, very zen environment, which makes it relaxes the individual. 00:20:35.329 --> 00:20:42.689 So after nine and nine minutes and thirty-some seconds, you go back out into you remember I showed you the group room, well, veterans will go gather there. 00:20:42.849 --> 00:20:46.849 And that's where a lot of the healing is done because veterans talk to each other, right? 00:20:47.009 --> 00:20:47.250 Right. 00:20:47.490 --> 00:20:51.889 So they kind of have that exchange of of, you know, where did you serve? 00:20:51.970 --> 00:20:53.169 When did you go to Afghanistan? 00:20:53.329 --> 00:20:56.289 Where were you when were you in Kosovo or Haiti or something like that? 00:20:56.769 --> 00:20:59.490 And it and it builds bridges and bonds between veterans. 00:20:59.569 --> 00:21:09.009 Aaron Powell, so when I'm getting this helmet put on my head, and I mean I'm not expecting you to explain to me on a high scientific level every single thing that's happening, but what's happening, I guess, on a high level? 00:21:09.169 --> 00:21:15.649 What were these magnets like how are they how are they changing my patterns of thought or creating pathways or whatever they're doing? 00:21:15.970 --> 00:21:18.289 Yeah, it's uh well, that's that that that's a good question. 00:21:18.609 --> 00:21:19.329 I know it's a tough question. 00:21:19.809 --> 00:21:23.649 It's a tough question for me because I don't I don't want to give you any diff disinformation, sure. 00:21:23.889 --> 00:21:27.009 But I can give you the the non-sci the non-clinician perspective. 00:21:27.250 --> 00:21:36.450 Yeah, thank you is that it it targets aspects of the brain that impact the aspects of the brain that influence PTSD, anxiety, depression. 00:21:36.609 --> 00:21:36.769 Okay. 00:21:37.009 --> 00:21:42.450 So it's a matter of rewiring the brain in a non-invasive manner. 00:21:42.769 --> 00:21:42.929 Okay. 00:21:43.329 --> 00:21:44.210 Non-invasive. 00:21:44.289 --> 00:21:44.450 Yeah. 00:21:44.689 --> 00:21:44.929 Okay. 00:21:45.009 --> 00:21:48.210 There's there's nothing like digging into someone's brain, kind of exactly. 00:21:48.450 --> 00:21:53.009 And that's a critical piece, and there's no drugs involved, there's no medication, right? 00:21:53.250 --> 00:21:54.769 So it is what it is. 00:21:54.929 --> 00:22:01.009 Nine nine minutes, thirty seconds, you finish that off, and then you go have a 60-minute break. 00:22:01.329 --> 00:22:03.649 Gives the chance for the brain to resettle. 00:22:04.210 --> 00:22:13.809 And and then what happens is that you go have coffee, you meet with the other veterans, you're bullshitting the way bull you know, veterans do, and then you're called back in again. 00:22:14.450 --> 00:22:23.089 The so like is it and you may and you can tell me your if you can answer this or not, but like is it where they're actually like it going into like the amygdala? 00:22:23.490 --> 00:22:28.210 Because I because amygula is the thing that you know your fight and flight part of your brain. 00:22:36.929 --> 00:22:38.289 Oh, so scot, because the amygdala is deep. 00:22:38.529 --> 00:22:38.849 Yeah, it's deep. 00:22:39.569 --> 00:22:39.809 That way. 00:22:39.970 --> 00:22:40.049 Okay.

00:22:40.129 --> 00:22:40.210 Okay. 00:22:40.369 --> 00:22:40.849 It doesn't go in there. 00:22:41.329 --> 00:22:47.490 No, it it once it gets into that level, then it starts to stimulate the stimulus that impacts the brain. 00:22:47.970 --> 00:22:48.210 Interesting. 00:22:48.369 --> 00:22:48.529 Yeah. 00:22:48.609 --> 00:22:50.210 So that's that non-invasive perspective. 00:22:50.609 --> 00:22:51.250 Yeah, exactly. 00:23:00.289 --> 00:23:06.529 Because this is something that we see a lot in the military, is like that macho kind of like I'm fine type of thing. 00:23:06.609 --> 00:23:09.809 And you're you're kind of programmed to just be tough, right? 00:23:10.450 --> 00:23:18.769 And is this like do you really feel like you're trying to like give people also an opportunity to just like it's okay to not be tough? 00:23:25.250 --> 00:23:25.409 Yeah. 00:23:25.490 --> 00:23:25.569 Okay. 00:23:25.730 --> 00:23:26.369 I I really do. 00:23:26.450 --> 00:23:26.529 Yeah. 00:23:26.769 --> 00:23:35.009 Like I've never met any like in Ottawa, I see a lot of softcom guys, special forces guys that have been through a lot of things. 00:23:35.169 --> 00:23:37.409 And you know, these are these are great guys. 00:23:37.569 --> 00:23:43.169 I really love these guys because, you know, they're like you and me sitting down, you know, we're having this discussion. 00:23:43.409 --> 00:23:45.169 And I I don't see that at all. 00:23:45.329 --> 00:23:45.409 No. 00:23:45.730 --> 00:23:47.490 Like, you know, they they just want to get well. 00:23:47.649 --> 00:23:53.329 Yeah, they just want to go home tonight, see their family, and and have a great night, enjoy their life. 00:23:53.569 --> 00:23:54.689 And that's that's what we want. 00:23:54.849 --> 00:24:00.289 That's what we expect out of our, you know, that's what we should be promoting as a veteran retires. 00:24:00.450 --> 00:24:02.529 Is when once you're retired, have a good life. 00:24:02.929 --> 00:24:05.329 If you're not well, come see, go go get help. 00:24:06.049 --> 00:24:13.490 Yeah, I mean, we're sending uh many of these folks into horrible conditions, you know, to do things that are not ideal, obviously. 00:24:13.649 --> 00:24:15.649 Like they can be quite quite traumatizing. 00:24:15.970 --> 00:24:19.569 So yeah, we we should obviously want to do everything we can to help them. 00:24:20.129 --> 00:24:22.769 Back to the helmets, because I'm still kind of caught up in the helmet. 00:24:25.009 --> 00:24:25.730 Let's talk about lunch. 00:24:25.889 --> 00:24:26.769 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:24:27.009 --> 00:24:40.450 But like so, so I I think when I put put this on, like, how does this I mean I and I I am understanding what you're saying about how how this changes kind of patterns in the brain or isolates patterns in the brain and and and and really stops them or starts them to some respect. 00:24:40.529 --> 00:24:44.450 Is that but you know, how is that different from just taking a medication? 00:24:45.569 -->

00:24:45.970 Wow. 00:24:46.210 --> 00:24:48.609 That's uh that's a good question for a clinician. 00:24:49.250 --> 00:24:49.730 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:24:49.889 --> 00:25:08.929 No, and I guess I guess why I'm asking is like, you know, is one better or one, you know, one like you know, it's so challenging to me to kind of understand why, you know, is it would I mean there's anti-ax anti-anxiety medications, there's anti-depression medications, and I mean let me ask this in a non-clinical perspective that's safe. 00:25:09.009 --> 00:25:11.089 I mean, because we none of us want to get sued today. 00:25:11.329 --> 00:25:27.089 So, so but like I I guess a safe way to ask this is like if I was trying other things and they weren't working for me personally from a from a depression state or an anxiety state or something, is this something that other people have explored that if if they have found a guiding light through this type of therapy? 00:25:27.409 --> 00:25:27.569 Absolutely. 00:25:27.809 --> 00:25:27.970 Yeah. 00:25:28.129 --> 00:25:28.369 Yeah. 00:25:28.609 --> 00:25:31.809 You'll you'll find that most veterans want to get off medications. 00:25:32.049 --> 00:25:32.210 Okay. 00:25:32.450 --> 00:25:33.809 Like not a few, all. 00:25:34.450 --> 00:25:35.809 And why do they want to get off medications? 00:25:36.210 --> 00:25:36.929 Because they're horrible. 00:25:37.089 --> 00:25:37.250 Yeah. 00:25:37.490 --> 00:25:41.169 They they just they just you know, do they feel like they're sucking the light out of you? 00:25:41.490 --> 00:25:42.529 They suck everything out of you. 00:25:42.689 --> 00:25:42.849 Yes. 00:25:43.089 --> 00:25:44.129 They they they suck everything. 00:25:44.289 --> 00:25:47.809 You know, some of these veterans are on 10, 12 medications a day, and you go, wow. 00:25:48.210 --> 00:25:48.529 Well, yeah. 00:25:48.689 --> 00:25:50.210 Yeah, and I mean that's the thing. 00:25:50.289 --> 00:25:52.929 As you get older, I mean these medications start to stack. 00:25:53.009 --> 00:25:55.250 So you need one to get you up in the morning, you need one to put you down. 00:25:55.329 --> 00:25:56.849 In the morning, you need one in between. 00:25:57.089 --> 00:25:59.409 And all of a sudden you're you're basically living. 00:25:59.809 --> 00:26:00.769 You're a zombie pills. 00:26:00.849 --> 00:26:01.089 Yeah. 00:26:01.250 --> 00:26:02.609 You're a zombie, you have no life. 00:26:02.769 --> 00:26:05.809 I've been there, you know, I've been through that stage of my life many years ago. 00:26:05.889 --> 00:26:06.049 Okay. 00:26:06.369 --> 00:26:11.009 And when I talk to veterans, you know, they go, I just want to get off the medications. 00:26:11.169 --> 00:26:13.409 You know, I'm on so many medications per day. 00:26:13.569 --> 00:26:13.889 Right. 00:26:14.129 --> 00:26:21.889 And and the this this is a path through TMS, through Brainstem, where we help, you know, kind of wean patients. 00:26:21.970 --> 00:26:22.929 It's their choice, right? 00:26:23.009 --> 00:26:24.049 It's their own. 00:26:24.129 --> 00:26:25.490 You know, if I'm a veteran, come here. 00:26:25.569 --> 00:26:28.129 You don't freaking tell me I can't do this or do that. 00:26:28.529 --> 00:26:31.250 So people are coming to your doorstep at times because they've had enough. 00:26:32.049 --> 00:26:33.250 But there's no other course of action. 00:26:33.409 --> 00:26:36.049 They they look at this as kind of like the last resort. 00:26:36.369 --> 00:26:37.730 You know, I've tried this, doc. 00:26:38.129 --> 00:26:40.049 This is them talking to her psychiatrist, doc. 00:26:40.210 --> 00:26:41.409 I've tried this, I've tried that. 00:26:41.569 --> 00:26:47.809 I've been on X amount of medications, I've done this, I've done psychotherapy, I've stood on my head in the the the cold. 00:26:48.769 --> 00:26:49.730 I've done the cold plunge. 00:26:50.049 --> 00:26:50.450 Yeah, yeah. 00:26:50.689 --> 00:26:59.649 Like you talk to veterans, they'll do anything to feel well because it's not only the um the the psychological and the mental health, it's your physical well-being. 00:27:00.049 --> 00:27:01.089 You just don't feel well. 00:27:01.569 --> 00:27:04.289 And and veterans that are listening, they know what I'm talking about. 00:27:04.369 --> 00:27:05.490 You just don't feel well. 00:27:05.730 --> 00:27:09.970 You feel like you've, you know, I f I felt for years I had a chronic flu. 00:27:10.289 --> 00:27:14.129 You know, you know, I was just, you know, I just felt ill all the time. 00:27:14.609 --> 00:27:15.889 It was i i it's funny. 00:27:15.970 --> 00:27:17.089 I actually saw a clip. 00:27:17.169 --> 00:27:19.649 There's a popular online doctor, Dr. 00:27:19.730 --> 00:27:21.089 Mike, in from the US. 00:27:21.169 --> 00:27:22.289 Uh, he's everywhere right now. 00:27:22.369 --> 00:27:24.609 And I actually really, you know, I really appreciate the stuff that he says. 00:27:24.689 --> 00:27:51.490 But he was talking to he was on someone's podcast, and the guy was really pushing a question that I think is an interesting, good question to ask and explore, and that is when people are really looking for answers for whatever illness it may be, you know, why is there such resistance to letting people try things that are experimental, even though they may not have even been fully tested? 00:27:51.569 --> 00:27:54.929 But if they're willing to sign off and say, like, yeah, I want to try this. 00:27:55.009 --> 00:27:59.569 I just want to try something that it's a huge question that we have in our society. 00:28:00.129 --> 00:28:02.289 It it's an ethical decision, right? 00:28:02.529 --> 00:28:06.609 It's all it it boils down to ethics and and it's risk adverse. 00:28:06.769 --> 00:28:08.289 You know, a lot of people are risk-adverse. 00:28:08.450 --> 00:28:17.569 They they just and this is why a lot of veterans, when they first come to Brain Stim, they have those questions like why the why why should I go to BrainStim? 00:28:17.889 -->

00:28:19.250 Or any other TMS provider. 00:28:19.409 --> 00:28:19.569 Right. 00:28:19.730 --> 00:28:21.889 It doesn't have to be Brainstem, it could be there's other people. 00:28:21.970 --> 00:28:22.689 Wherever they can get help. 00:28:22.849 --> 00:28:23.809 Wherever they can get help. 00:28:24.049 --> 00:28:28.450 And and and this is why, like I'm the senior veteran on the team. 00:28:28.769 --> 00:28:35.089 And my goal is to make sure whatever happens in the clinic reflects in what the veterans find out about. 00:28:35.490 --> 00:28:35.730 Right. 00:28:35.889 --> 00:28:40.210 So that when a veteran veterans trust veterans, right? 00:28:40.369 --> 00:28:41.889 So I'm on the team. 00:28:41.970 --> 00:28:52.450 So what I try to do, what not what I try, what I do is I write to all the veterans that I know that are being on board and just to introduce myself, say I'm a veteran, served 32 years. 00:28:52.689 --> 00:28:55.089 If you have any questions, you know, DM me. 00:28:55.649 --> 00:28:57.409 Have you been through the therapy yourself? 00:28:57.809 --> 00:29:00.609 No, because by the way, when I joined the team, that's a great question. 00:29:00.769 --> 00:29:06.210 I've I've tried the therapy because, but at the end of the day, VAC would never approve me because I'm no longer acute. 00:29:06.450 --> 00:29:07.889 Oh, yeah, yeah. 00:29:08.129 --> 00:29:08.369 Yeah. 00:29:08.450 --> 00:29:13.409 So if my file went to VAC, they'd say, you know, I wouldn't even make it past their psychiatrist. 00:29:13.490 --> 00:29:13.730 Oh, right. 00:29:13.970 --> 00:29:18.049 Because he'd say, no, you you you're you're not a good candidate for TMS. 00:29:18.289 --> 00:29:18.369 Yeah. 00:29:18.529 --> 00:29:19.730 But I've gone through the process. 00:29:19.809 --> 00:29:20.769 I've done the training. 00:29:20.849 --> 00:29:21.089 Okay. 00:29:21.250 --> 00:29:36.689 I did the uh the the training, which was uh phenomenal, gave me a lot of background knowledge on you know the you know what what neuroplasticity is all about, learned about interventional psychiatry, and but I just don't want to I don't want to touch patients. 00:29:36.929 --> 00:29:39.250 No, no, that's you know, I just it's not part of me. 00:29:39.329 --> 00:29:40.129 That's why I never went to medical. 00:29:42.049 --> 00:29:44.369 Do you have any like kind of close contacts that have been through this? 00:29:44.769 --> 00:29:45.009 Absolutely. 00:29:45.250 --> 00:29:48.769 And and and like how how are they how are they doing years later or months later? 00:29:49.169 --> 00:29:50.849 I mean, what's your what's your kind of insights? 00:29:50.929 --> 00:29:53.089 Uh if somebody that you keep regular tabs on? 00:29:53.409 --> 00:29:56.769 Yeah, well, I I keep in touch with a lot of the veterans that have been through the program. 00:29:56.849 --> 00:29:58.689 It's nothing but positive feedback from them. 00:29:58.849 --> 00:29:59.009 Yeah. 00:29:59.250 --> 00:30:00.769 But you know, some have been challenged. 00:30:00.849 --> 00:30:01.490 Let's let's be honest. 00:30:01.649 --> 00:30:04.289 You know, I'm sure I don't expect it to work for everybody all the time. 00:30:04.689 --> 00:30:07.169 It doesn't work like any other medical procedure, right? 00:30:07.250 --> 00:30:08.289 It doesn't work for everybody. 00:30:08.369 --> 00:30:12.689 But I would say, you know, 95% plus are coming back with positive returns. 00:30:12.769 --> 00:30:19.490 And this and the sustainability, like you know, uh VAC will approve up to 90 sessions per calendar year for a veteran. 00:30:19.730 --> 00:30:21.329 That's a lot of sessions. 00:30:21.809 --> 00:30:32.210 So for our protocol, which is approved by VAC and Health Canada, for an accelerated program, we do 30 in-house on the first week. 00:30:32.369 --> 00:30:35.649 Okay, and then we keep 28 for what's called maintenance. 00:30:36.129 --> 00:30:42.369 And they come back every two to three weeks for a day here in the clinic where they go through the process and then they go home. 00:30:42.609 --> 00:30:50.450 And then even after even after that is done, VAC will automatically you know regenerate the 90 sessions for the next calendar year. 00:30:50.769 --> 00:30:51.889 Is it addictive in any sense? 00:30:52.129 --> 00:30:55.329 Like what I feel like I need, like I mean, if you if you want to feel good, it is. 00:30:55.809 --> 00:30:56.849 Well, well, well, yeah. 00:30:57.009 --> 00:30:59.329 Well, I mean, we all want a sense of euphoria, right? 00:30:59.490 --> 00:31:01.250 So I mean that that would be a concern too. 00:31:01.329 --> 00:31:10.689 If I was kind of coming back to kind of get that first hit of relief that I may have not felt in years of myself, I'd be fearful that like like heroin or something that just feels transcending. 00:31:10.769 --> 00:31:12.210 I'd want to go back and try it again. 00:31:12.529 --> 00:31:13.409 Well, you you met Dr. 00:31:13.569 --> 00:31:16.129 Vene, our our our um CEO. 00:31:16.689 --> 00:31:17.009 Brilliant man. 00:31:17.250 --> 00:31:17.329 Yeah. 00:31:17.730 --> 00:31:18.049 Oh my god. 00:31:18.609 --> 00:31:20.769 Oh, every time he talked about something, he was like, oh, and I also did that. 00:31:21.009 --> 00:31:22.049 And I also have a degree in this. 00:31:22.129 --> 00:31:26.210 And it's like, holy he set off about 85 light bulbs in my mind in six minutes. 00:31:26.450 --> 00:31:27.009 A very smart man. 00:31:27.089 --> 00:31:27.250 Wow. 00:31:27.490 --> 00:31:31.089 Like I felt like throwing in the towel and telling him to come here to the podcast. 00:31:31.490 --> 00:31:32.769 Like I felt almost embarrassing. 00:31:34.049 --> 00:31:36.129 Hugely impressed by what he's trying to do. 00:31:36.210 --> 00:31:36.289 Yeah. 00:31:36.769 --> 00:31:37.490 But he's very humble. 00:31:37.649 --> 00:31:38.529 He's a very humble man. 00:31:38.929 --> 00:31:43.809 And and I mean, you look a man in the eye often tell what their passions are, and it was it was a

hundred percent there. 00:31:44.129 --> 00:31:45.009 Well, well, it's interesting. 00:31:45.089 --> 00:31:47.009 We we I had a vet come in this morning. 00:31:47.089 --> 00:31:48.289 Yeah, he's a veteran. 00:31:48.369 --> 00:31:51.730 He I won't discuss his name because he didn't give me permission to mention his name. 00:31:51.889 --> 00:31:52.049 Yeah. 00:31:52.289 --> 00:31:56.450 And he's been a bit of a naysayer, you know, because he comes an old school guy. 00:31:56.529 --> 00:31:56.769 Yeah, yeah. 00:31:57.009 --> 00:31:57.649 Old school. 00:31:57.889 --> 00:31:59.169 And so, you know, Mr. 00:31:59.409 --> 00:32:02.929 X came in and we we sat him down in the in the chair. 00:32:03.009 --> 00:32:05.329 We gave him one session just to know what it's like. 00:32:05.889 --> 00:32:09.329 And and so we said, Well, how do I know if this is working? 00:32:09.409 --> 00:32:09.809 And etc. 00:32:10.210 --> 00:32:10.450 etc. 00:32:10.849 --> 00:32:15.809 And so Vinay said, It's like, you know, when you go to the gym, you get pumped, right? 00:32:16.289 --> 00:32:19.009 And people are saying, Wow, I want to stay pumped. 00:32:19.250 --> 00:32:21.889 And so it's the same analogy for the TMS. 00:32:22.049 --> 00:32:27.730 I feel healthy, so I'm gonna go back and have another hit in three weeks, and I'm still gonna feel pumped. 00:32:28.049 --> 00:32:28.369 Nice. 00:32:28.450 --> 00:32:30.289 Yeah, that's the nice thing about it. 00:32:30.450 --> 00:32:37.169 And it goes back to you know, you can drive here in the morning for the TMS, and you can go home at 2 30. 00:32:37.250 --> 00:32:39.970 You you you don't need somebody to come pick you up, you know. 00:32:40.129 --> 00:32:40.689 Yeah, that's true. 00:32:40.849 --> 00:32:43.169 You know, there's there's no side effects. 00:32:43.329 --> 00:32:47.649 Okay, you some guys, you know, and you look it up in the literature, it's right in the literature. 00:32:47.809 --> 00:32:52.849 Some guys might get a mild headache, you know, but you know, take two two tile and I'll go home. 00:32:52.929 --> 00:32:53.409 Yeah, right. 00:32:53.569 --> 00:32:54.450 But that's about it. 00:32:54.609 --> 00:32:55.970 You know, it's really not. 00:32:56.849 --> 00:32:57.730 It's so cutting edge. 00:32:57.809 --> 00:33:02.529 I mean, a lot of people are probably listening to this for the first time and just wondering if it you could help them, probably, right? 00:33:02.689 --> 00:33:04.929 And it's so it's it's it's uh it's interesting to me. 00:33:05.089 --> 00:33:13.089 These new technologies that I mean, I know it's it's like you said it was four years old, but to me it's still like a relatively uncovered resource that people aren't noticing. 00:33:13.490 --> 00:33:19.409 Yeah, well, you remember I showed you the there's two helmets that we have at those helmets are very pricey, as you can imagine. 00:33:19.490 --> 00:33:24.529 So I could only imagine the blue one is for what we use on veterans for for anxiety depression in

that. 00:33:24.689 --> 00:33:24.849 Yeah. 00:33:25.169 --> 00:33:28.609 And then the the green one was for smoking cessation. 00:33:28.769 --> 00:33:28.929 Yeah. 00:33:29.250 --> 00:33:34.609 But every year the company Brainsway that produces the this equipment, they're coming out with new protocols. 00:33:35.089 --> 00:33:35.889 ADHD. 00:33:36.049 --> 00:33:36.289 Yeah, yeah. 00:33:36.529 --> 00:33:36.929 Parkinson. 00:33:37.409 --> 00:33:38.210 Interesting you say that. 00:33:38.450 --> 00:33:48.289 I mean, ADHD is such a finite or such a hard thing to measure, I think, because we all ADHD, I think there's so many even variations of it itself and how how it shows in various forms, right? 00:33:48.450 --> 00:33:49.409 Like various spectrums. 00:33:49.809 --> 00:33:50.769 But it's a different helmet. 00:33:50.849 --> 00:33:51.009 Yeah. 00:33:51.169 --> 00:33:51.329 Okay. 00:33:51.409 --> 00:33:54.289 The coils, you know, that the coils I showed you, they'd be different. 00:33:54.529 --> 00:33:54.689 Yeah. 00:33:54.849 --> 00:33:58.210 You know, the the protocol's different because it hits different parts of the brain, right? 00:33:58.450 --> 00:34:00.529 So PDSDs on this side with uh depression. 00:34:00.929 --> 00:34:08.690 And when he says coils, it looks like something like straight out of a science fiction movie, almost a sprainy, uh big computer chair, Tron or something. 00:34:09.490 --> 00:34:09.889 Yeah, Tron. 00:34:10.130 --> 00:34:10.769 That's I like the tron. 00:34:10.929 --> 00:34:11.250 Yeah, yeah. 00:34:11.490 --> 00:34:11.730 Perfect. 00:34:11.889 --> 00:34:12.050 Yeah. 00:34:12.289 --> 00:34:17.650 So it and and yeah, and you it's so yeah, we obviously that would help with addiction type of stuff. 00:34:17.970 --> 00:34:22.050 And and you you may not be able to even comment on this, but you m may know some of it. 00:34:22.130 --> 00:34:25.570 But because leading up to this, I was reading a little bit about the TMS. 00:34:25.970 --> 00:34:36.610 And they're starting to use it for people in comas as well, which I thought was pretty interesting because you know you might be able to like really kind of get into people's brains when they're in a coma. 00:34:37.090 --> 00:34:44.929 Did you know that uh there are clinics in Toronto that offer TMS for people with early stages of dementia? 00:34:45.329 --> 00:34:45.650 Okay. 00:34:45.970 --> 00:34:46.289 Yeah. 00:34:46.530 --> 00:35:03.090 So so say say you have an aging parent that's you know starting to show signs of dementia or or Alzheimer's, you can send them to this clinic and they they use a different style of coil, yeah, different protocol for helping elderly. 00:35:03.330 --> 00:35:05.650 And I think that's that's pretty uh could be amazing. 00:35:05.809 --> 00:35:06.050 Yeah. 00:35:06.210 --> 00:35:06.370 Right? 00:35:06.530 --> 00:35:10.130 Wouldn't you love to see the people got the few extra years that just their own? 00:35:11.090 --> 00:35:19.490 Well, there was there was that uh there was like I I can't remember what study that came out just like a week or two ago, but they uh they gave what was it? 00:35:19.570 --> 00:35:22.450 Uh I don't know if it was LSD or psilocybin or whatever. 00:35:22.530 --> 00:35:23.010 They gave something. 00:35:23.090 --> 00:35:24.370 No, it was mushroom, yeah, it was mushrooms. 00:35:24.450 --> 00:35:35.010 They gave psilocylocybin to like an elderly person with Alzheimer's, and for an entire day or 20 hours showed no signs of Alzheimer's. 00:35:35.330 --> 00:35:35.650 Wow. 00:35:35.890 --> 00:35:36.130 Yeah. 00:35:36.370 --> 00:35:39.890 Like they were like back to like reconnected a few wires at least for momentarily. 00:35:40.210 --> 00:35:41.010 Momentarily, yeah, yeah. 00:35:41.170 --> 00:35:44.610 Which is uh mind-blowing that stuff like this. 00:35:45.010 --> 00:35:50.690 Well, I think there's so much out there within the healthcare community where you know we're leading the charge, right? 00:35:50.850 --> 00:35:51.090 Yeah. 00:35:51.250 --> 00:35:53.090 And that's you know, we want to make a difference. 00:35:53.170 --> 00:35:57.090 We want we want to make a difference, and that's that's uh that's why I'm here. 00:35:57.490 --> 00:36:06.130 Do you guys see like I know your obviously your role is to to help veterans and and I would imagine probably like even law enforcement, there's probably some of the things that we've got to do. 00:36:06.210 --> 00:36:07.730 RCMP, yeah, RCMP veterans. 00:36:07.970 --> 00:36:09.090 Yeah, we see a lot of them as well. 00:36:09.490 --> 00:36:18.610 And but is there any like real look uh kind of hope to expand even well beyond that to offer things like addiction maybe services or anything like that? 00:36:19.010 --> 00:36:22.769 Well the the the the it's coverage, right? 00:36:22.930 --> 00:36:24.690 Yeah like it cut it's it's not cheap. 00:36:25.010 --> 00:36:27.809 Going through a TMS program is is is costly. 00:36:28.289 --> 00:36:36.850 But there are people that spend$80,000,$100,000 to go to to these uh these addiction treatment centers for 30 days or whatever it is. 00:36:37.170 --> 00:36:40.050 But that's that'd be a great question that I'd love to throw in to you too. 00:36:40.130 --> 00:36:40.930 What about addiction? 00:36:41.090 --> 00:36:54.130 Like what about chronic alcohol addiction or chronic drug addiction to help people with that's what yeah, that's kind of there is a protocol, yeah, but we we don't use it because it's not covered under VAC, but for for for uh addiction, right? 00:36:54.210 --> 00:36:54.530 Yeah. 00:36:54.769 --> 00:36:56.530 So some clinics offer it. 00:36:56.610 --> 00:37:00.769 We we currently don't offer that, but we can provide uh advice on that. 00:37:01.010 --> 00:37:11.330 But but right now, if you're you know getting back on the veteran slope here, if if you're a veteran, you know, you would be sent to a one of the uh you know addiction centers. 00:37:11.809 --> 00:37:18.289 But but addictions is one

that there's a lot of, you know, like I said, every month there's a new protocol coming out for something. 00:37:18.450 --> 00:37:28.610 But for me, I think the one it's that exciting is the the uh Parkinson and the and the early signs of dementia in the aging brain. 00:37:28.769 --> 00:37:32.370 And yeah, I think that would be that'd be a good milestone. 00:37:32.530 --> 00:37:33.250 Can you imagine that? 00:37:33.570 --> 00:37:34.130 Oh amazing. 00:37:34.450 --> 00:37:36.850 And do you guys treat actively for OCD here? 00:37:37.170 --> 00:37:37.650 No, we don't. 00:37:37.890 --> 00:37:37.970 No. 00:37:38.289 --> 00:37:40.530 No, no, but that's another capability of this as well. 00:37:40.610 --> 00:37:41.730 Yeah, absolutely. 00:37:41.890 --> 00:37:50.050 You know, we we're we're just focusing right now on uh on on kind of the trauma side of the house, you know, for PTSD, anxiety, depression. 00:37:50.289 --> 00:37:54.050 But if you're a like we treat non-veterans here as well. 00:37:54.210 --> 00:37:55.490 Yeah, just not veterans. 00:37:55.809 --> 00:38:05.410 Like if you want to come in here, you know, your blogging's off the street and you've got a you've had uh you were in a traffic accident, you have terrible trauma, you can come through our program. 00:38:05.570 --> 00:38:11.650 We do we see a lot of that and a lot of uh you know requests about ketamine therapy, which we run here. 00:38:11.730 --> 00:38:12.930 We're about to launch that. 00:38:13.170 --> 00:38:15.650 We're making that announcement uh tomorrow. 00:38:15.809 --> 00:38:17.410 And so that's an exciting phase. 00:38:17.570 --> 00:38:27.330 So we've started with the TMS, we're gonna launch the ketamine as next, and then we're also launching EMDR, which is another, you know, you met Dr. 00:38:27.410 --> 00:38:30.130 Vinay and his technology and his big brain over there. 00:38:30.289 --> 00:38:30.530 Yeah. 00:38:30.690 --> 00:38:42.289 I hope he's not listening, but uh and uh you know, so he wants to launch other modalities of uh of uh therapy to support not only veterans, but you know, anyway. 00:38:42.610 --> 00:38:49.730 Oh, that I think yeah, I mean it would be interesting to see it for anyone that would want to be able to see if they could just help themselves in a different way, right? 00:38:50.050 --> 00:38:50.530 It's pretty cool. 00:38:50.930 --> 00:38:52.130 We get a lot of queries, yeah. 00:38:52.210 --> 00:38:52.610 It's amazing. 00:38:52.850 --> 00:38:54.050 Could it make me a better basketball player? 00:38:54.289 --> 00:38:56.370 You think uh would it make me taller? 00:38:56.530 --> 00:38:56.769 No. 00:38:56.930 --> 00:38:57.570 No, okay. 00:38:58.450 --> 00:38:58.769 Oh well. 00:38:59.010 --> 00:39:08.530 Uh true it is like one thing I I guess I I forgot to really ask is like do you when you're in there, you have the helm your magneto helmet on there. 00:39:09.250 --> 00:39:11.410 Yeah, yeah, that's what it looked like. 00:39:11.650 --> 00:39:13.650 But you does

do you feel anything? 00:39:13.730 --> 00:39:14.930 And are there different settings? 00:39:15.010 --> 00:39:18.850 Like, is there like oh we gotta go a little higher, or is it all just one setting? 00:39:19.170 --> 00:39:25.490 Well, it depends upon when you when you first go in there, they do a motor threshold test on you, which sets the standard. 00:39:25.970 --> 00:39:28.130 Motor threshold that sounds aggressive. 00:39:28.450 --> 00:39:29.010 Yeah, yeah. 00:39:29.570 --> 00:39:31.650 All it is, it's uh it's a reflex reaction. 00:39:31.890 --> 00:39:32.130 Okay. 00:39:32.289 --> 00:39:34.289 So so they stimulate that part of the brain. 00:39:34.530 --> 00:39:34.769 Okay. 00:39:34.930 --> 00:39:38.610 And then when you when you see your hand go like this, see you see how my hand's going? 00:39:38.769 --> 00:39:39.010 Yeah, yeah. 00:39:39.090 --> 00:39:41.410 It goes like that, you've you've reached the motor threshold. 00:39:41.650 --> 00:39:41.730 Right. 00:39:42.050 --> 00:39:48.289 And then the technician, Ilian, the other smart guy in the building, he's gonna set the the settings based on that. 00:39:48.610 --> 00:39:49.090 Oh, okay. 00:39:49.330 --> 00:39:50.610 Yeah, interesting. 00:39:51.010 --> 00:39:56.450 So they find that and then they dial it to what what the So they can see the okay Yeah. 00:39:56.610 --> 00:39:57.010 Yeah, okay. 00:39:57.170 --> 00:39:57.410 That's cool. 00:39:57.650 --> 00:39:58.050 That is, yeah. 00:39:58.769 --> 00:40:01.250 I thought it was skull thickness, and then you'd be in trouble, Matt, right? 00:40:02.130 --> 00:40:03.330 It's not getting through. 00:40:03.890 --> 00:40:04.690 That is a big brain. 00:40:05.250 --> 00:40:07.010 They're like, we keep turning it up, we're getting nothing. 00:40:07.330 --> 00:40:09.090 It's not a big brain, it's just a thick skull. 00:40:09.250 --> 00:40:12.850 Yeah, but but you know, once they get that, you you're set for the five days. 00:40:13.010 --> 00:40:13.250 Wow. 00:40:13.410 --> 00:40:13.570 Yeah. 00:40:13.730 --> 00:40:16.130 So so they they they they study it there. 00:40:16.690 --> 00:40:23.250 And what like do you find it like if they had to go like through a second round of treatment, everything, like do they find that that changes at all? 00:40:23.410 --> 00:40:26.690 Like once you have treatment, I think it's it's it's it just stays that way. 00:40:26.850 --> 00:40:27.410 Yeah, that's your body. 00:40:27.650 --> 00:40:28.370 That is that is what it is. 00:40:28.530 --> 00:40:30.130 It is your threshold is your threshold. 00:40:30.610 --> 00:40:31.250 Your settings, yeah. 00:40:31.490 --> 00:40:34.530 Yeah, I wasn't sure if like you know, the getting the treatment may change that at all. 00:40:35.090 --> 00:40:38.289 And it's saved in the database, it's saved in your electronic health record. 00:40:38.450 --> 00:40:38.610 Okay. 00:40:38.850 --> 00:40:45.410 So that when you go in, so you come back, you know, for your maintenance phase, you know, we just type in your name and then everything comes up. 00:40:45.650 --> 00:40:51.570 You know, all the data points come up showing that you know, this is where we're at after day five. 00:40:51.650 --> 00:40:55.010 Here was the setting, here was the motor threshold, yeah, and so on. 00:40:55.330 --> 00:41:07.330 And we've put through 40 veterans in the last couple months, and of those 40, everybody has shown major decreases in their PTSD uh rating scale. 00:41:07.970 --> 00:41:11.650 I wanted us to kind of move to talk a little bit about cost and access, Matt. 00:41:11.970 --> 00:41:16.690 Yeah, because I mean for me, I mean, I like one I I like for people to have their own options. 00:41:16.769 --> 00:41:18.769 I think people should be take their own agency on this. 00:41:18.850 --> 00:41:20.210 I don't want to be advocating for anything. 00:41:20.370 --> 00:41:23.010 Yeah, it's like if you if you weigh out the pros and cons. 00:41:23.170 --> 00:41:25.650 It's like our Canadian healthcare system. 00:41:25.809 --> 00:41:32.289 Is this virtual like I mean, outside from from the veteran program that you're trying to run, it's it sounds like it'd be private pretty well. 00:41:32.370 --> 00:41:36.769 Like you'd have to invest in this yourself and it would be very expensive. 00:41:37.490 --> 00:41:44.769 You know, it's it's covered all provinces less UConn do not cover TMS as as a frontline treatment. 00:41:45.010 --> 00:41:45.250 Okay. 00:41:45.410 --> 00:41:45.570 Right. 00:41:45.650 --> 00:41:47.410 So it's it's gonna be user pay. 00:41:47.570 --> 00:41:47.730 Right. 00:41:47.890 --> 00:41:48.050 Right? 00:41:48.130 --> 00:41:49.090 That's that's the bottom line. 00:41:49.250 --> 00:41:53.890 If you're a veteran and you have a PTSD award from Veterans Affairs, it's fully covered. 00:41:53.970 --> 00:41:54.050 Yes. 00:41:54.610 --> 00:41:54.850 Okay. 00:41:54.930 --> 00:41:55.010 Yeah. 00:41:55.170 --> 00:41:56.130 There's no upfront cost. 00:41:56.610 --> 00:41:59.330 It makes sense that you're leading into that demographic specifically. 00:41:59.650 --> 00:42:03.970 Yeah, I just wanted to state that because I get a lot of questions from veterans saying, Well, how much is it going to cost? 00:42:04.050 --> 00:42:06.210 How much, how much am I gonna have to pay you? 00:42:06.289 --> 00:42:07.330 You don't pay me anything, man. 00:42:07.410 --> 00:42:12.289 Yeah, you just come for the treatment and we bill VAC or we bill Medaville Blue Cross, right? 00:42:12.370 --> 00:42:12.610 Yeah, yeah. 00:42:12.769 --> 00:42:13.730 So that's the bottom line. 00:42:13.809 --> 00:42:28.769 But if you're a civilian, or even if you're a veteran without a disability award, okay, we see a lot of those that don't have a disability award or or are civilian, you can come into the clinic and and you you pay as you go. 00:42:28.930 --> 00:42:33.650 Like some parts of the treatment can be covered by the MSI. 00:42:33.730 --> 00:42:42.210 Okay, okay, and that's usually the the

psych assessment would be covered, but some of the treatment parts would be covered by if you have a third-party insurance, yeah. 00:42:42.530 --> 00:42:46.289 They would cover some of that, and the rest would be out of pocket. 00:42:46.930 --> 00:42:48.050 Okay, right. 00:42:48.530 --> 00:42:49.650 And um, yeah. 00:42:49.970 --> 00:42:51.410 Our benefits are pretty good there, Mike. 00:42:51.570 --> 00:42:53.090 Are you gonna you know give it a roll? 00:42:53.330 --> 00:42:54.210 Oh, geez, yeah. 00:42:54.850 --> 00:42:56.289 I got a slot next. 00:42:56.690 --> 00:42:57.650 You're in next, Mike. 00:42:57.890 --> 00:42:59.330 Coming up next in the afternoon playing. 00:42:59.410 --> 00:43:00.289 Yeah, exactly, exactly. 00:43:00.610 --> 00:43:01.730 Mike reprograms himself. 00:43:02.370 --> 00:43:02.690 Yeah. 00:43:02.850 --> 00:43:13.490 No, no, I I mean, you know, the the the real thought for me here is like, I mean, if this works and if I mean if you could only help people that were suffering from addiction and stuff, I mean, there's just there's just a lot of hardship out there. 00:43:13.570 --> 00:43:26.769 And if you could give people a way out, I mean it would be it would be interesting to see if in the future there could be pathways to, I mean, a lot of people that are addicted to uh hard drugs or alcohol or even cigarettes, as you said, tobacco, right? 00:43:26.930 --> 00:43:28.610 You know, they don't want to be addicted. 00:43:28.850 --> 00:43:31.330 Like, you know, they do not want to do this anymore, right? 00:43:31.490 --> 00:43:35.250 I used to smoke and I I wasn't proud I smoked a day after I was 30 years old, right? 00:43:35.490 --> 00:43:40.130 When as soon as it started the moment it started affecting my health, I was like, I want off this. 00:43:40.210 --> 00:43:41.730 And you know, I I don't smoke anymore. 00:43:41.809 --> 00:43:45.170 I have smoked in years, but still, it it's a hard thing to quit. 00:43:45.330 --> 00:43:45.490 Right? 00:43:45.890 --> 00:43:46.610 It is hard for it. 00:43:47.010 --> 00:44:03.890 It seems like they're like it almost seems like the if we had some like if we incorporate it into the provincial healthcare system that it could act as a preventative type of health care, uh, you know, if we have people who are addicted to hard drugs, well it's hard for them to work. 00:44:03.970 --> 00:44:05.809 But if they weren't, maybe they become contrasting. 00:44:06.050 --> 00:44:13.170 It sounds like a Stanley Kubrick film, you know, like you know, it's like the guy's not doing so well, you put them in the uh in the seat and and and reprogram them. 00:44:13.330 --> 00:44:24.370 But but yeah, like sort of i i if if you had a if they could have agency over themselves to participate in a program to to maybe potentially get themselves out of this rut. 00:44:24.610 --> 00:44:26.050 Because you know, it's a cycle, right? 00:44:26.130 --> 00:44:33.330 Like crime or uh uh addictions or poverty, you know, it's sometimes

so many people go out and then they just come right back in, sort of speak, right? 00:44:33.570 --> 00:44:36.530 They're stuck in these ruts their entire lives, and it must suck. 00:44:37.010 --> 00:44:37.250 Yeah. 00:44:38.130 --> 00:44:39.330 If you go downtown Vancouver. 00:44:40.130 --> 00:44:42.050 You can see you can see it's a very good idea. 00:44:42.289 --> 00:44:45.809 So sad requirements I've watched so many videos of what's going on there right now. 00:44:45.890 --> 00:44:48.690 And I mean Halifax, we have we have that happening here as well. 00:44:48.930 --> 00:44:50.769 I mean, uh symptoms of it, absolutely. 00:44:50.850 --> 00:44:51.090 Yeah. 00:44:51.650 --> 00:45:03.410 That's what I'm thinking, is like, you know, really it I feel like someone should be lobbying the government, whether it be federal or provincial, to like look at this as preventative health care. 00:45:03.730 --> 00:45:15.010 I mean, obviously reactive too, but like it should be, you know, if you talk to, you know, I'm not gonna you know mention names here because of that, but uh a lot of people feel it should be a first-line treatment option for people, right? 00:45:15.250 --> 00:45:22.930 So you go into your uh your your GP, you get a referral, you see a psychiatrist, and then they refer you into a program, you know, such as this. 00:45:23.490 --> 00:45:23.650 Yeah. 00:45:24.050 --> 00:45:27.890 Don't put somebody on 20 medications, you know, just let them get the treatment they need. 00:45:28.210 --> 00:45:30.050 Yeah, I think that's what I'm kind of like getting at. 00:45:30.210 --> 00:45:36.690 It's like, you know, we're gonna we're gonna pay for all the medications, like through MSI, I mean some whatever coverages and whatever. 00:45:36.769 --> 00:45:49.730 But I mean, you know, we're gonna pay for a lot of these things, these other treatments, and that's uh kind of goes back to my other question where I asked way before where it was like if people are willing to try something, like why don't we let people just try things and pay for it? 00:45:50.130 --> 00:45:51.570 I I think from my fixes them. 00:45:51.730 --> 00:45:55.010 Yeah, from my perspective, I think it's a cost analysis baby problem. 00:45:55.250 --> 00:45:57.410 Like it's very costly, as you can see. 00:45:57.570 --> 00:45:59.250 There's a lot of equipment in here. 00:45:59.490 --> 00:46:01.570 Yeah, there's a lot of you know high-end equipment. 00:46:02.130 --> 00:46:06.530 High-end equipment, it requires a I mean a neurosurgeon basically to to operate. 00:46:07.010 --> 00:46:07.330 Right, right. 00:46:07.410 --> 00:46:11.970 And then you've got psychiatry, you've got I gotta pay, I gotta keep the lights on. 00:46:12.130 --> 00:46:12.289 Okay. 00:46:12.530 --> 00:46:12.610 Yeah. 00:46:12.769 --> 00:46:16.130 I gotta pay the front staff, I gotta pay the nurse that's gonna do the ketamine. 00:46:16.370 --> 00:46:16.530 Right. 00:46:16.690 --> 00:46:20.370 You know, you gotta you look at all of these things, people say, Oh, yeah, you guys are making tons of money. 00:46:20.450 --> 00:46:23.010 Well, no, my my our overhead's pretty high. 00:46:23.170 --> 00:46:23.330 Yeah. 00:46:23.490 --> 00:46:25.890 You know, this this nice room, these these chairs. 00:46:26.050 --> 00:46:26.210 Yeah. 00:46:26.450 --> 00:46:28.769 These chairs were bought for patient comfort. 00:46:29.090 --> 00:46:30.370 You know, yeah, I didn't get them. 00:46:30.690 --> 00:46:32.690 I think you said those machines were a few hundred thousand dollars apiece for the phone. 00:46:32.850 --> 00:46:33.250 That's right, right? 00:46:33.330 --> 00:46:33.410 Yeah. 00:46:33.570 --> 00:46:34.130 Like, my gosh. 00:46:34.450 --> 00:46:35.730 But that's no different than a hospital. 00:46:35.970 --> 00:46:37.730 But but an MRI machine costs? 00:46:38.289 --> 00:46:47.890 I think there was a study done in British Columbia where they kind of looked at what would it cost to get these things as frontline, first line treatment, and and the cost was way too high. 00:46:48.130 --> 00:46:48.289 Yeah. 00:46:48.690 --> 00:46:50.210 But it doesn't even have to like I don't know. 00:46:50.289 --> 00:46:55.730 I'm guessing I guess it have to be first line, but I mean, you know, once someone's been through rehab three times, why don't we give it a go? 00:46:56.450 --> 00:46:57.250 You know what I mean? 00:46:57.330 --> 00:46:59.330 Like yeah, I yeah, I'd rather have that person. 00:46:59.730 --> 00:47:00.450 I do agree with you, Matt. 00:47:00.530 --> 00:47:06.050 Like I there is a certain value or price tag on human life that you know if it it can make that person human again. 00:47:06.450 --> 00:47:15.090 But but from the healthcare perspective, you know, our our ERs are over overloaded, you know, 24 hours, 36 hour wait to see an emergency room die. 00:47:15.650 --> 00:47:21.410 So we take money away from that to go to this, then it's just a f it's it's another gap in the system. 00:47:21.570 --> 00:47:24.450 So there's only you know, healthcare's expensive. 00:47:24.769 --> 00:47:29.809 It's really expensive to provide, you know, yes, the the the standard that Canadians want. 00:47:30.530 --> 00:47:32.050 And it's gonna cost money. 00:47:32.289 --> 00:47:36.130 I and and you know, and I'm not I'm not like I think we're on the same page here, so I'm not being argumentative. 00:47:36.450 --> 00:47:38.210 Oh no, I like be the devil's advocate. 00:47:38.530 --> 00:47:51.890 Yeah, but here's the other thing is you know why the the I I not that long, you know, I played football, so I was spent many times in the in the ER because of broken limbs, and obviously broken limbs get looked at last because you're not an emergency. 00:47:52.050 --> 00:47:52.370 Right. 00:47:52.690 --> 00:47:59.970 And how many people I when I'm sitting around in those rooms for ten hours, I'm looking around, how many people probably have an addiction problem? 00:48:00.050 --> 00:48:01.809 That's probably the big part of

the reason why they're there. 00:48:01.890 --> 00:48:02.050 Yeah. 00:48:02.289 --> 00:48:08.610 So I mean, yeah, we have long waits, but maybe we could you know shorten those if we had uh problems for those people. 00:48:08.850 --> 00:48:10.130 Or sorry, solutions for those people. 00:48:10.370 --> 00:48:15.170 I would hope that you could rehabilitate criminals to some extent, too, so they could get back in a modern society, right? 00:48:15.250 --> 00:48:15.890 I mean, probably. 00:48:16.289 --> 00:48:18.850 You know, because I mean uh think of the PSTD in jails, right? 00:48:19.330 --> 00:48:23.970 I mean, people might go in there for a mine or a fence and come out, you know, now they can't work anymore. 00:48:24.130 --> 00:48:24.210 Right. 00:48:24.530 --> 00:48:26.210 Now they can't you know what I mean? 00:48:26.850 --> 00:48:27.890 It's a political decision. 00:48:28.050 --> 00:48:28.130 Yeah. 00:48:28.289 --> 00:48:29.250 You know, this is it really is. 00:48:29.490 --> 00:48:30.850 Yeah, it's uh it's all about politics. 00:48:31.010 --> 00:48:33.410 And where where are we gonna you know, where's the fire today? 00:48:33.490 --> 00:48:34.850 Where are we gonna throw money at? 00:48:35.410 --> 00:48:39.570 And that's the biggest thing is is that and this this is privately funded. 00:48:39.650 --> 00:48:41.010 You know, there's no government money in here. 00:48:41.490 --> 00:48:49.170 We do see other countries that are leading us in are leading in other like do you see this type of uh uh therapy uh uh like in Sweden or Norway? 00:48:49.330 --> 00:48:50.690 I'm just throwing out a few countries there. 00:48:51.410 --> 00:48:52.690 It's very popular in the Middle East. 00:48:52.930 --> 00:48:53.010 Yes. 00:48:53.330 --> 00:48:54.130 Yeah, because there's a lot of money. 00:48:54.450 --> 00:48:55.650 Yeah, Middle East is very big. 00:48:55.730 --> 00:48:55.809 Yeah. 00:48:55.970 --> 00:48:56.050 Yeah. 00:48:56.289 --> 00:48:56.930 Vinay in there. 00:48:57.250 --> 00:48:57.970 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:48:59.170 --> 00:49:00.530 Where whereabouts in the Middle East is the same. 00:49:00.690 --> 00:49:00.930 Dubai. 00:49:01.170 --> 00:49:01.410 Dubai. 00:49:02.130 --> 00:49:03.890 Okay, so that's not the wealthier nations. 00:49:04.289 --> 00:49:05.170 Yeah, the wealthier nations. 00:49:05.330 --> 00:49:05.410 Yeah. 00:49:05.650 --> 00:49:08.130 India, there's a lot of demand in India right now for these. 00:49:08.530 --> 00:49:13.330 Well, like my kid didn't do good on his uh math test and the uh send them off to TMS. 00:49:14.850 --> 00:49:15.650 The new grounding. 00:49:15.890 --> 00:49:16.370 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:49:16.530 --> 00:49:16.769 That's right. 00:49:17.010 --> 00:49:17.890 No computer time to do it. 00:49:18.050 --> 00:49:19.170 No more fighting after school, Mike. 00:49:20.289 --> 00:49:20.450 Yeah. 00:49:20.690 --> 00:49:23.730 So I I that's I yeah, I mean, I I can see by the Middle East, though. 00:49:23.809 --> 00:49:28.850

I mean, obviously, because there's it seems like there's pretty much constantly war there, so there's probably a lot of like drama going on. 00:49:29.250 --> 00:49:30.450 In the US, it's very popular. 00:49:30.610 --> 00:49:32.610 There's a lot of TMS clinics in the U.S. 00:49:32.769 --> 00:49:33.410 It's very popular. 00:49:33.730 --> 00:49:33.890 Right. 00:49:33.970 --> 00:49:35.490 So Canada's a bit behind, you think? 00:49:36.610 --> 00:49:37.250 I don't want to say. 00:49:39.970 --> 00:49:43.010 I don't want to know which way I lean politically. 00:49:43.490 --> 00:49:44.130 Sure, yeah, yeah. 00:49:44.610 --> 00:49:47.410 But I'm leaning my head the uh this uh to the right. 00:49:47.970 --> 00:49:57.809 Yeah, well, but I mean, even still, it's like I think even with that, I don't I don't think this should be a political thing because it's uh I don't think it should be politicized at all. 00:49:58.130 --> 00:49:59.410 I mean I'm but healthcare is. 00:49:59.650 --> 00:49:59.970 Oh, absolutely. 00:50:01.490 --> 00:50:13.490 Unfortunately, it is so at the end of the day, like I said, you know, it it's it boils down to funding, which boils down to you know the division where are we going to spend our money this year from the annual budget that the federal government gave us. 00:50:13.650 --> 00:50:16.370 And you know, do I spend it on this or security? 00:50:16.450 --> 00:50:20.130 Do I spend it on new infrastructure or do we spend it on healthcare? 00:50:20.370 --> 00:50:20.450 Yeah. 00:50:20.690 --> 00:50:23.490 You know, those are political decisions on how the money's spent. 00:50:23.970 --> 00:50:39.490 I think all governments don't because so this is like a shot at all of them, because it's like I don't think all I think so far I've not seen really a government take as serious preventative health care as much as it should be and don't value in what it can be. 00:50:39.650 --> 00:50:50.769 I know it gets scary spending, you know, ten doll today, but if it spending ten dollars today saves you 40 down the road, I I and I know that's like it is, it's down the road. 00:50:50.850 --> 00:50:55.410 You don't see it, but fifty years from now we could have a sus be a society that's a lot more functioning. 00:50:56.130 --> 00:50:58.769 When we make capital investments, that's exactly what they ask of us. 00:50:59.010 --> 00:51:03.809 They say, you know, trust the future that'll be more prosperous if we invest in A, B, C, right? 00:51:04.130 --> 00:51:06.450 And uh but yeah, we very much need to see. 00:51:06.610 --> 00:51:07.090 I agree. 00:51:07.170 --> 00:51:08.690 Like I think we're all in agreement here. 00:51:08.769 --> 00:51:11.330 So we're almost just kind of saying the same thing around a circle. 00:51:11.730 --> 00:51:17.970 I I I think if you look back 20, 30 years, can Canada was perceived as the best healthcare system in the world. 00:51:18.370 --> 00:51:18.450 Yes. 00:51:18.690 --> 00:51:19.570 And we remember those days. 00:51:19.890 -->

00:51:20.210 We've dropped. 00:51:20.530 --> 00:51:30.690 Yeah, we've dropped in you know, I don't know where we are in the ranking scale, but uh we were envied by the world for this very you know you know progressive healthcare system. 00:51:31.090 --> 00:51:33.170 You do have people from the Middle East coming here and they're shocked. 00:51:33.490 --> 00:51:34.690 Because I mean, well, what? 00:51:34.769 --> 00:51:36.610 You don't have doctors like everywhere? 00:51:36.930 --> 00:51:39.250 Like it's not easy to get health care. 00:51:39.730 --> 00:51:40.210 What do you mean? 00:51:40.450 --> 00:51:42.930 And uh, you know, so there's such a strain on the system now. 00:51:43.090 --> 00:51:43.170 Yeah. 00:51:43.410 --> 00:51:45.410 For the absolute basics, my partner's a nurse. 00:51:45.490 --> 00:51:49.570 So I mean the calls she receives, she's with 811, so it's a telehealth position. 00:51:49.650 --> 00:51:51.650 So the call she receives every day, you know. 00:51:51.970 --> 00:51:52.930 I mean, people really need help. 00:51:53.170 --> 00:51:53.650 Yeah, they do. 00:51:54.130 --> 00:51:54.370 Right? 00:51:54.450 --> 00:51:57.250 So yeah, so I guess moving on. 00:51:57.410 --> 00:52:00.050 So we have to get to our fun questions around. 00:52:00.130 --> 00:52:01.809 These are our fun and philosophical questions. 00:52:01.970 --> 00:52:07.170 Before we do, you know, just a plug for brainstem, how can they check it out if they're interested here in Halifax? 00:52:07.330 --> 00:52:09.010 I I really appreciated your time, Richard. 00:52:09.090 --> 00:52:09.410 Here we go. 00:52:09.570 --> 00:52:10.850 We have seven locations across the country. 00:52:11.170 --> 00:52:11.809 Well, soon to be eight. 00:52:12.050 --> 00:52:12.450 Soon to be eight. 00:52:12.530 --> 00:52:12.930 Soon to be eight. 00:52:13.090 --> 00:52:16.690 Yeah, so we've got uh we have two on the West Coast, Vancouver. 00:52:16.850 --> 00:52:23.090 We opened in Calgary, we got one in Edmonton, Kingston, Perth, Ontario, Ottawa, and here in Halifax. 00:52:23.170 --> 00:52:23.330 Cool. 00:52:23.650 --> 00:52:29.170 And we're opening up in I can't disclose the places yet, you know, it hasn't been announced, but two other locations coming up. 00:52:29.650 --> 00:52:30.050 Amazing. 00:52:30.370 --> 00:52:31.410 I bet you I could guess. 00:52:31.570 --> 00:52:33.730 Think about where there's a large military presence. 00:52:33.970 --> 00:52:35.970 Yeah, that's you the man. 00:52:36.850 --> 00:52:38.370 You're the you're the man. 00:52:39.330 --> 00:52:44.130 Goes where the money is or where the just one one thing before we we we go on to the next phase. 00:52:44.289 --> 00:52:45.970 We we also do a lot of research. 00:52:46.050 --> 00:52:48.289 Yeah, and research is extremely important. 00:52:48.450 --> 00:52:48.610 Yeah. 00:52:48.850 --> 00:53:01.490 And the Royal Canadian Legion, BC UConn Command Headquarters, that's a big mouthful, gave us a generous donation to do a PTSD chronic pain study off the West Coast in our Syria location. 00:53:02.130 --> 00:53:04.850 And we just launched it a couple weeks ago. 00:53:05.090 --> 00:53:18.930 And already, you know, we've you know, we we we put cohorts through the program of five veterans, five veterans, five veterans, and already we're seeing reduced chronic pain issues in our veterans after the five-day protocol. 00:53:19.170 --> 00:53:20.130 Can you imagine that? 00:53:20.530 --> 00:53:24.850 You know, one of the biggest issues facing veterans is chronic pain. 00:53:25.090 --> 00:53:30.690 And we're gonna present our data, you know, scientific data to big forums this fall. 00:53:30.930 --> 00:53:33.809 One of them will be here in Halifax, and we're very excited about that. 00:53:33.890 --> 00:53:41.570 And we've got some other ideas about operator syndrome and other things like that that we want to, you know, cost money. 00:53:41.650 --> 00:53:46.930 It costs a lot of money to do a research program because you have to hire an ethics board, you got to hire scientists. 00:53:47.090 --> 00:53:47.970 It's not cheap. 00:53:48.130 --> 00:53:54.530 It's it's it's hundreds of thousands of dollars to run a very good quality, you know, ethically driven research study. 00:53:54.610 --> 00:53:55.730 So I just wanted to throw that in. 00:53:55.809 --> 00:53:55.970 Thanks. 00:53:56.210 --> 00:53:56.690 No, thank you. 00:53:56.850 --> 00:54:02.450 Yeah, and uh yeah, so uh brainstem, brainstem, S T I stimulation. 00:54:02.610 --> 00:54:03.250 Thank you. 00:54:03.570 --> 00:54:03.970 So yeah. 00:54:05.250 --> 00:54:07.490 If you want to know more about the organization, just go online. 00:54:07.650 --> 00:54:09.890 Brain STEM is pretty easy to find, actually. 00:54:10.130 --> 00:54:13.490 It's right at the top of uh the web searches when I when I was doing my research. 00:54:13.650 --> 00:54:14.769 So, Matt, let's jump in. 00:54:16.450 --> 00:54:21.170 So we got we got six fun questions, and then you know, a last call question we ask all of our guests. 00:54:21.250 --> 00:54:22.769 So, Matt, go ahead, question one, bud. 00:54:23.010 --> 00:54:33.090 All right, so do you think that it would be a good idea for Canada to follow other NATO members such as Denmark and Sweden in conscription to the Army? 00:54:33.490 --> 00:54:34.610 So we're coming. 00:54:34.930 --> 00:54:35.730 These are deep heavy questions. 00:54:35.890 --> 00:54:37.809 Well, these I wasn't expecting this, man. 00:54:38.050 --> 00:54:39.809 Like you didn't tell me this. 00:54:40.370 --> 00:54:41.730 You did not tell me this when we started. 00:54:42.450 --> 00:54:43.170 My coffee's cold now. 00:54:43.250 --> 00:54:44.769 I gotta go get another cup. 00:54:45.490 --> 00:54:45.890 Yes. 00:54:46.130 --> 00:54:46.690 Yeah, yeah? 00:54:46.850 --> 00:54:47.330 Yeah, okay. 00:54:47.490 --> 00:54:48.850 Yeah, I I do think so. 00:54:49.090 --> 00:54:49.330 Okay. 00:54:49.490 --> 00:54:49.650 Yeah. 00:54:49.809 --> 00:54:52.050 And I'm not saying

this because I'm old now, but I do agree. 00:54:52.210 --> 00:54:52.450 Yeah. 00:54:52.610 --> 00:54:52.690 Yeah. 00:54:52.930 --> 00:54:53.010 Yeah. 00:54:53.250 --> 00:54:53.970 You're out of it now. 00:54:54.130 --> 00:54:54.210 Yeah. 00:54:54.450 --> 00:54:56.289 I I I put my three years in, I'm good. 00:54:56.610 --> 00:54:58.930 I could still probably be young enough to get into it. 00:54:59.010 --> 00:55:01.410 I think I might have a couple years or two left, but not yet. 00:55:01.570 --> 00:55:01.650 Yeah. 00:55:01.890 --> 00:55:03.250 So I'm almost ready for this. 00:55:03.330 --> 00:55:03.490 Yeah. 00:55:03.809 --> 00:55:03.970 Okay. 00:55:04.210 --> 00:55:05.730 So that that that's a good great question. 00:55:05.809 --> 00:55:05.890 Yeah. 00:55:06.050 --> 00:55:06.930 And that that's a good question. 00:55:07.410 --> 00:55:08.370 Why do you think that? 00:55:09.250 --> 00:55:16.769 I I think that boy, this is really putting pressure on me here now to give us uh give us something. 00:55:17.330 --> 00:55:26.289 I I think we need to bring people in, these young kids, and show them some discipline, some organization in their lives. 00:55:26.610 --> 00:55:27.010 Teamwork. 00:55:27.250 --> 00:55:27.650 Teamwork. 00:55:27.809 --> 00:55:27.970 Yeah. 00:55:28.370 --> 00:55:30.130 Understanding what our country's about. 00:55:30.530 --> 00:55:32.289 You know, nobody knows what our country's about. 00:55:32.769 --> 00:55:35.170 You walk out there, ask somebody where where's Alberta? 00:55:35.250 --> 00:55:37.890 And they're gonna say, I don't what are you talking about? 00:55:38.050 --> 00:55:39.650 Where's the capital of Canada? 00:55:39.970 --> 00:55:40.210 Yeah. 00:55:40.530 --> 00:55:41.250 Halifax? 00:55:41.330 --> 00:55:41.490 Yeah. 00:55:41.650 --> 00:55:42.450 I don't you know what I mean. 00:55:42.690 --> 00:55:48.370 So I think if we brought them in, we'd give them a period of professional development well beyond what they're learning in school. 00:55:48.450 --> 00:55:50.050 I don't know what they're learning in school anymore. 00:55:50.289 --> 00:55:55.410 You know, I you know, my kids are you know in their 30s now, so I I think it would be good from that. 00:55:55.490 --> 00:55:56.850 It's a generational issue. 00:55:56.930 --> 00:56:00.370 And I think that's and to be clear to people listening, it's not this is not send people to war. 00:56:00.530 --> 00:56:05.170 This just means have a have a military establishment for for everyone that you serve. 00:56:05.330 --> 00:56:05.490 Absolutely. 00:56:05.730 --> 00:56:08.769 You learn about your country, you you understand what being a citizen is about. 00:56:09.170 --> 00:56:09.890 Could be a reservist, right? 00:56:09.970 --> 00:56:10.050 Right. 00:56:10.289 --> 00:56:11.250 Could simply just be a reservist. 00:56:11.970 --> 00:56:12.210 Absolutely. 00:56:12.610 --> 00:56:12.930 Two years. 00:56:13.090 --> 00:56:13.170 Yeah. 00:56:13.490 --> 00:56:15.650 Two years conscription and off they go. 00:56:15.809 --> 00:56:19.809 And it and and that way, if stuff goes down, you have a lot of people that are ready to go. 00:56:19.890 --> 00:56:19.970 Yeah. 00:56:20.130 --> 00:56:20.289 Right. 00:56:20.370 --> 00:56:30.050 And that's like you hope it never happens, but if it does, right, you know, better than the best place to be thrown in there on day one with uh with a helmet put on your head and not knowing how to hold a gun. 00:56:30.210 --> 00:56:30.289 Right. 00:56:30.450 --> 00:56:30.530 Yeah. 00:56:30.690 --> 00:56:32.370 You know, so the world is a dangerous place. 00:56:32.930 --> 00:56:33.330 Absolutely. 00:56:33.410 --> 00:56:34.930 Like it's yeah, it's out of control. 00:56:35.330 --> 00:56:36.050 Okay, that was easy. 00:56:36.210 --> 00:56:37.090 Let's go on to number two. 00:56:37.410 --> 00:56:38.690 Okay, give me give me number two. 00:56:39.010 --> 00:56:41.730 So so so we wrote these, so you get a tough one and a buffer. 00:56:41.890 --> 00:56:42.050 Right. 00:56:42.130 --> 00:56:42.850 Okay, give me a buffer one. 00:56:43.809 --> 00:56:44.370 Take a breath. 00:56:44.610 --> 00:56:48.289 So uh what's your number one go-to for relaxation? 00:56:48.450 --> 00:56:51.170 So when you're when Rich is just cooling out, TMS, no. 00:56:52.610 --> 00:56:53.410 I don't do it again. 00:56:53.809 --> 00:56:54.370 You academic. 00:56:56.289 --> 00:56:57.010 Oh, wow. 00:56:57.250 --> 00:56:57.410 Yeah. 00:56:57.570 --> 00:56:59.890 Well, that's uh I I train a lot. 00:57:00.210 --> 00:57:01.970 Okay, yeah, I do a lot of physical fitness. 00:57:02.370 --> 00:57:02.690 Okay, cool. 00:57:02.769 --> 00:57:03.170 Yeah, yeah. 00:57:03.250 --> 00:57:03.730 You look fit. 00:57:03.890 --> 00:57:05.650 Do you mind asking how I'm 70. 00:57:05.890 --> 00:57:06.130 70? 00:57:06.210 --> 00:57:07.330 Yeah, thank you for helping with that. 00:57:07.650 --> 00:57:09.250 Could you tell the audience how young I look? 00:57:09.330 --> 00:57:11.170 No, no, it's a 69. 00:57:11.410 --> 00:57:12.050 No, I'm just joking. 00:57:12.210 --> 00:57:13.090 No, I'm just joking. 00:57:13.250 --> 00:57:15.250 No, you you're very healthy looking. 00:57:15.410 --> 00:57:16.690 No, I'm just joking. 00:57:16.850 --> 00:57:20.210 And uh uh uh no, you look you look very young and spry. 00:57:20.530 --> 00:57:22.610 I would, you know, not Peggy was a 70-year-old. 00:57:22.930 --> 00:57:23.809 How old do I look? 00:57:24.050 --> 00:57:25.410 I was gonna say 42. 00:57:25.570 --> 00:57:26.450 Oh, you're right on the mic. 00:57:26.769 --> 00:57:27.890 Nailed it! Nailed it. 00:57:28.050 --> 00:57:28.370 Yeah, yeah. 00:57:28.530 --> 00:57:28.850 Wow. 00:57:29.010 --> 00:57:30.289 He was doing his research on me probably. 00:57:31.410 --> 00:57:32.450 He's like, I didn't even know what this is. 00:57:32.530 --> 00:57:34.130 He leaned into some of his Intel buddies. 00:57:34.530 --> 00:57:34.769 That's right. 00:57:35.730 --> 00:57:37.010 Tell me all everything about this clan.

00:57:37.330 --> 00:57:37.570 Yeah. 00:57:37.730 --> 00:57:38.050 Yeah. 00:57:38.289 --> 00:57:38.930 Okay, cool. 00:57:39.090 --> 00:57:40.610 All right, so question number three. 00:57:40.850 --> 00:57:41.490 Another tough one. 00:57:41.650 --> 00:57:43.650 So am I getting all the tough ones that I read to him? 00:57:43.970 --> 00:57:44.530 I'm sorry, I'm sorry. 00:57:44.769 --> 00:57:45.330 Okay, let's go. 00:57:45.490 --> 00:57:57.410 All right, in the movie The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, the main character Joel learns that his ex-girlfriend, Clementine, undergoes an experimental medical procedure to erase all memories of him. 00:57:58.210 --> 00:58:01.650 So he goes and does the same surgery to himself. 00:58:01.970 --> 00:58:08.450 Do you think that some memories are too or so painful that it is best to just remove them? 00:58:10.930 --> 00:58:11.570 That's deep. 00:58:11.809 --> 00:58:12.530 Isn't that deep? 00:58:12.610 --> 00:58:13.250 Yeah, that's deep. 00:58:13.410 --> 00:58:14.050 It's a beautiful movie. 00:58:14.130 --> 00:58:14.690 Have you ever seen it? 00:58:16.050 --> 00:58:19.250 If you ever get a chance, eternal sunshine of the spotless mile with Jim Ferry. 00:58:19.490 --> 00:58:22.050 It's it's it's his best performance, one of the best movies I've ever seen. 00:58:22.210 --> 00:58:23.170 If you ever get a chance to watch it. 00:58:23.330 --> 00:58:23.490 Okay. 00:58:23.570 --> 00:58:23.730 Yeah. 00:58:23.890 --> 00:58:24.450 I'll look for it. 00:58:24.530 --> 00:58:26.930 Yes, I'll I'll tell my wife we've got to watch that movie. 00:58:27.170 --> 00:58:27.490 Yeah, yeah. 00:58:27.809 --> 00:58:29.809 But no, I think memories are there forever. 00:58:29.970 --> 00:58:30.210 Yeah. 00:58:30.370 --> 00:58:30.930 That's my answer. 00:58:31.010 --> 00:58:31.809 So leave them in there. 00:58:31.970 --> 00:58:32.610 Leave them in there. 00:58:32.769 --> 00:58:33.890 You don't want them erased. 00:58:34.050 --> 00:58:34.450 Yeah, okay. 00:58:34.530 --> 00:58:34.610 Yeah. 00:58:34.850 --> 00:58:36.930 Even if painful and terrible and terrifying. 00:58:37.090 --> 00:58:37.250 Yeah. 00:58:37.490 --> 00:58:39.090 It's part of being alive, isn't it? 00:58:39.330 --> 00:58:39.570 Yes. 00:58:39.730 --> 00:58:42.210 That that is a very part of being a human being. 00:58:42.370 --> 00:58:42.610 Yeah. 00:58:42.769 --> 00:58:43.090 Absolutely. 00:58:43.410 --> 00:58:44.850 Separates us from amoebas. 00:58:46.130 --> 00:58:46.769 Just them. 00:58:47.090 --> 00:58:47.650 Just them. 00:58:48.610 --> 00:58:49.330 Great answer. 00:58:49.490 --> 00:58:51.250 Like I said, these are the fun philosophical questions. 00:58:51.809 --> 00:58:52.370 This one's an easy one. 00:58:52.690 --> 00:58:53.490 Number four to you, yeah. 00:58:53.650 --> 00:58:54.850 Yeah, super soft again. 00:58:54.930 --> 00:58:55.090 Yeah. 00:58:55.250 --> 00:58:59.410 Which cartoon character as a child today or present day? 00:58:59.490 --> 00:59:01.330 What was one of your favorite cartoon characters in one? 00:59:01.730 --> 00:59:02.050 Oh man. 00:59:02.289 --> 00:59:04.370 Like I grew up in the 50s and the 60s, right? 00:59:04.690 --> 00:59:05.809 So it was Bugs Bunny. 00:59:05.890 --> 00:59:05.970 Okay. 00:59:06.450 --> 00:59:10.210 The Bugs Bunny uh and uh the Roadrunner series. 00:59:10.289 --> 00:59:10.530 Oh, yeah. 00:59:10.930 --> 00:59:23.250 Every Saturday morning, man, like a bowl of Cheerios sitting in front of the cathode TV, you know, 55, you know, 55 pound little box on my mom and dad's in the living room. 00:59:23.490 --> 00:59:23.809 Awesome. 00:59:23.890 --> 00:59:24.050 Yeah. 00:59:24.210 --> 00:59:24.370 Yeah. 00:59:24.610 --> 00:59:25.090 That's great. 00:59:25.250 --> 00:59:25.650 Awesome. 00:59:26.050 --> 00:59:26.289 All right. 00:59:26.690 --> 00:59:27.250 That's a good memory. 00:59:27.650 --> 00:59:29.010 I would never want to erase that memory. 00:59:29.250 --> 00:59:29.410 Yes. 00:59:30.050 --> 00:59:30.289 Exactly. 00:59:30.530 --> 00:59:30.690 Okay. 00:59:30.769 --> 00:59:32.610 So that goes back to the memory question, right? 00:59:32.690 --> 00:59:32.769 Yeah. 00:59:32.930 --> 00:59:34.289 You don't want to erase those memories. 00:59:34.450 --> 00:59:34.690 Yeah. 00:59:34.930 --> 00:59:35.010 Yeah. 00:59:35.410 --> 00:59:36.289 Highs and lows, man. 00:59:36.530 --> 00:59:36.690 Yeah. 00:59:36.850 --> 00:59:37.970 That's what life's about. 00:59:38.370 --> 00:59:39.970 The lows make you appreciate the highs. 00:59:40.530 --> 00:59:41.090 So there you go. 00:59:41.330 --> 00:59:41.890 Question number five. 00:59:41.970 --> 00:59:42.690 This one's not so hard. 00:59:43.010 --> 00:59:43.170 Okay. 00:59:43.650 --> 00:59:51.250 What is who is one who is one of the most inspirational figures in history that you can think of? 00:59:51.970 --> 00:59:54.130 So in your opinion, most inspirational figure. 00:59:54.930 --> 00:59:55.410 Wow. 00:59:57.170 --> 00:59:59.570 It sounds like a trivial pursuit question. 01:00:00.130 --> 01:00:00.610 Remember that? 01:00:00.690 --> 01:00:01.570 Did you guys play Canadian? 01:00:02.930 --> 01:00:03.650 That's a Canadian main. 01:00:03.890 --> 01:00:04.289 Yeah, I know. 01:00:04.370 --> 01:00:04.850 That's what I mean. 01:00:05.170 --> 01:00:07.570 Played it uh when I was in my last year at university. 01:00:08.850 --> 01:00:15.890 Wow, I I have many characters or many you know historical figures I look to, but you know, I love history. 01:00:15.970 --> 01:00:17.890 History is such an important part of my life as well. 01:00:18.050 --> 01:00:20.610 Kind of I do that for a lot of relaxation as well. 01:00:21.330 --> 01:00:28.050 I would have to say I'm tossing up between a f a few here, but uh I'd say my dad. 01:00:28.610 --> 01:00:29.010 Oh, okay. 01:00:29.330 --> 01:00:29.650 That's nice. 01:00:29.890 --> 01:00:30.370 That's beautiful. 01:00:30.850 --> 01:00:32.850 Yeah, I would say he was a he was a great soldier. 01:00:33.170 --> 01:00:33.490

Amazing. 01:00:33.570 --> 01:00:33.650 Yeah. 01:00:33.730 --> 01:00:35.250 So yeah, he said fought in two wars. 01:00:35.410 --> 01:00:37.090 Two pretty significant wars, so yeah. 01:00:37.490 --> 01:00:40.769 So I would say he had great influence, and I respect everything he did. 01:00:41.090 --> 01:00:41.650 That's amazing. 01:00:41.809 --> 01:00:42.050 Yeah. 01:00:42.289 --> 01:00:43.010 Awesome, good job. 01:00:43.330 --> 01:00:43.809 It's a good thing. 01:00:43.970 --> 01:00:46.450 Like if my favorite author would be Ernest Hemingway. 01:00:46.769 --> 01:00:47.090 Okay, yeah. 01:00:47.250 --> 01:00:47.809 Okay, well, yeah. 01:00:48.289 --> 01:00:50.450 I love love reading Hemingway. 01:00:50.610 --> 01:00:52.610 Like he was, you know, at the time a man's man. 01:00:52.690 --> 01:00:54.530 You know that statement, he's a man's man. 01:00:54.610 --> 01:00:55.490 You couldn't say that nowadays. 01:00:55.650 --> 01:00:55.890 Right. 01:00:55.970 --> 01:00:57.650 You know, you'd get slapped in the face. 01:00:57.730 --> 01:00:59.250 But uh yeah, Hemingway. 01:00:59.330 --> 01:00:59.490 Okay. 01:01:00.370 --> 01:01:00.610 All right. 01:01:00.690 --> 01:01:01.170 Well, there you go. 01:01:01.250 --> 01:01:04.130 There's a there's a personal one and a uh famous one. 01:01:04.370 --> 01:01:04.610 All right. 01:01:05.090 --> 01:01:06.130 Another softball, okay? 01:01:06.370 --> 01:01:07.970 We don't have any more hard, real hard questions. 01:01:08.050 --> 01:01:09.650 Uh so we eat the hard ones are over. 01:01:09.730 --> 01:01:13.570 So yeah, this one is is uh we always have a few silly ones. 01:01:13.650 --> 01:01:14.050 So okay. 01:01:14.210 --> 01:01:17.970 We want you to walk us through your idea of a perfect sandwich. 01:01:18.210 --> 01:01:20.210 Like you made a sandwich, what do you want on it? 01:01:20.289 --> 01:01:21.170 Like as a perfect sandwich. 01:01:21.490 --> 01:01:22.130 What sourdough? 01:01:22.370 --> 01:01:23.010 Sourdough bread. 01:01:23.250 --> 01:01:24.530 Yeah, sourdough bread. 01:01:24.610 --> 01:01:25.090 Yeah. 01:01:25.570 --> 01:01:26.450 For sure. 01:01:26.769 --> 01:01:27.730 No butter. 01:01:28.050 --> 01:01:32.289 Don't don't eat butter because it's part of that health regime I have. 01:01:32.610 --> 01:01:39.570 I would probably put in, you know, tomatoes, lettuce, probably some black olives. 01:01:40.050 --> 01:01:40.370 Okay. 01:01:40.690 --> 01:01:48.450 And then depending upon my mood, I would make it either a vegetarian or I'd probably want some really finely sliced prosciutto Italian ham. 01:01:48.690 --> 01:01:49.090 There you go. 01:01:49.330 --> 01:01:54.450 With some nice cheese and cut my wife is uh tremendous at this. 01:01:54.690 --> 01:01:59.010 Cut it in half, serve it on a nice plate, and enjoy it. 01:01:59.250 --> 01:01:59.970 That sounds beautiful. 01:02:00.050 --> 01:02:00.130 Yeah. 01:02:00.289 --> 01:02:00.850 I'm hungry now. 01:02:01.090 --> 01:02:01.650 Italian sandwich. 01:02:02.130 --> 01:02:03.570 Yeah, Italian sandwich, there you go. 01:02:04.050 --> 01:02:05.090 All right, what what wait though? 01:02:05.170 --> 01:02:06.610 What what kind of cheese though? 01:02:07.330 --> 01:02:08.930 I I like cheddar. 01:02:09.090 --> 01:02:09.650 Old cheddar. 01:02:09.890 --> 01:02:11.170 Oh, yeah, like a five-year-old. 01:02:11.490 --> 01:02:11.809 Oh, 12? 01:02:11.970 --> 01:02:13.330 I'm gonna say like five, even like 12. 01:02:13.650 --> 01:02:16.130 He's going past the Baldur now. 01:02:16.450 --> 01:02:16.850 Oh, it is. 01:02:17.010 --> 01:02:17.970 Yeah, yeah, the Baldursen chest. 01:02:18.210 --> 01:02:21.650 We've ever been to their uh production center down in it's outside of Perth. 01:02:21.809 --> 01:02:22.210 Oh, really? 01:02:22.370 --> 01:02:24.050 Yeah, Balderson, yeah, it's pretty cool. 01:02:24.690 --> 01:02:25.410 That's a it's great, yeah. 01:02:25.490 --> 01:02:25.970 It's great cheese. 01:02:26.130 --> 01:02:28.769 You shouldn't eat the orange cheese because it's got a kind of a dye. 01:02:28.850 --> 01:02:30.130 You should eat the white cheddar. 01:02:30.370 --> 01:02:30.850 Oh, 100%. 01:02:31.090 --> 01:02:31.809 Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:02:31.970 --> 01:02:32.289 Like cool. 01:02:32.530 --> 01:02:33.170 That's another story. 01:02:33.570 --> 01:02:34.450 Crystals in your cheddar. 01:02:34.530 --> 01:02:34.769 That's right. 01:02:34.930 --> 01:02:37.410 You want your cheddar so old they can order a scotch? 01:02:39.570 --> 01:02:39.890 Okay. 01:02:40.530 --> 01:02:41.970 Well, we're getting to the last one. 01:02:42.050 --> 01:02:43.809 This is another little bit of a philosophical question. 01:02:43.890 --> 01:02:47.330 We asked this to every guest in the last almost 100 episodes, Matt. 01:02:47.410 --> 01:02:47.809 Go ahead, bud. 01:02:48.130 --> 01:02:49.170 Oh, Mokyah that's right. 01:02:49.250 --> 01:02:49.410 Yeah. 01:02:49.570 --> 01:02:54.850 So our last call is what advice were you given in your life that you would like to share with us? 01:02:55.170 --> 01:02:55.970 And our listeners. 01:02:56.130 --> 01:02:56.370 Yeah. 01:02:56.450 --> 01:02:56.690 Yeah. 01:02:57.010 --> 01:02:57.970 What advice? 01:02:58.210 --> 01:02:59.330 Perseverance. 01:02:59.890 --> 01:03:06.610 I think that's yeah, the advice that was given to me as a young, young kid was to persevere at everything you do. 01:03:06.850 --> 01:03:07.170 Okay. 01:03:07.410 --> 01:03:10.610 No matter how many times you get knocked down, you persevere. 01:03:10.850 --> 01:03:16.210 And that's kind of that's that's a great uh I tell them you get knocked down, you get back up, and you keep going. 01:03:16.530 --> 01:03:18.050 Chumbawumba, tum thumping. 01:03:18.289 --> 01:03:18.850 Remember that song? 01:03:18.930 --> 01:03:19.010 Yeah. 01:03:19.250 --> 01:03:20.769 I get knocked down, but I get up. 01:03:21.170 --> 01:03:21.890 I can't sing very well. 01:03:22.130 --> 01:03:22.210 No. 01:03:22.450 --> 01:03:23.809 You're never going to keep me down, right? 01:03:23.970 --> 01:03:24.210 That's right. 01:03:25.330 --> 01:03:25.809 There you go. 01:03:26.289 --> 01:03:30.130 So remember looking that up in a dictionary after my dad said perseverance. 01:03:30.210 --> 01:03:30.289 Yeah. 01:03:30.530 --> 01:03:31.650 I looked it up and went. 01:03:32.289 --> 01:03:33.010 There it is. 01:03:33.090 --> 01:03:35.890 Now here I am 70 years later, still doing it. 01:03:36.130 --> 01:03:36.530 Awesome. 01:03:36.690 --> 01:03:37.490 Well, thank you, Richard. 01:03:37.570 --> 01:03:38.850 I think this was a great conversation. 01:03:39.170 --> 01:03:41.250 And uh yeah, I hope uh hope we get to meet again. 01:03:41.410 --> 01:03:42.130 This has been fantastic. 01:03:42.370 --> 01:03:42.690 Absolutely. 01:03:43.250 --> 01:03:43.650 Thank you very much. 01:03:44.210 --> 01:03:44.530 Cheers.