התמלול המלא של Rewire Your Brain using Flow States with Neuroscientist Dr. Lana Morrow

medicine neuroscientist, 21 00:04:54.094 --> 00:04:54.894 inventor, 22 00:04:54.894 --> 00:04:57.134 and CEO of Think Interfaces. 23 00:04:57.134 --> 00:04:58.014 Welcome to the show. 24 00:04:58.909 --> 00:05:00.429 Thank you for having me. 25 00:05:01.149 --> 00:05:06.509 It was such a pleasure hanging out with you at Sapiens Center and a few other events. I feel like the energy 26 00:05:06.509 --> 00:05:09.789 in Austin right now is very, very special. 27 00:05:09.949 --> 00:05:19.704 And, there are so many incredible people coming through and setting up shop here in some cases. What was it that originally drew you to Texas and Austin in particular? 28 00:05:20.344 --> 00:05:22.424 I had an interview with a colleague 29 00:05:22.664 --> 00:05:23.304 and 30 00:05:23.624 --> 00:05:25.304 he suggested that 31 00:05:25.559 --> 00:05:32.359 exactly what you said, that the energy in Austin was really interesting. This was in 2021, 32 00:05:32.359 --> 00:05:33.959 at the 2021. 33 00:05:33.959 --> 00:05:37.559 And also where I was, I was in New York City. I had to escape. 34 00:05:38.174 --> 00:05:42.254 Was really, five gs was just rampant and I'm very sensitive. 35 00:05:42.574 --> 00:05:52.494 So I was literally even breathing. So I could not, you know, from nose. And it was very, you know, just very, very different. New York City suddenly became very, very different. 36 00:05:53.379 --> 00:05:58.019 And I went to South Of Boston to work with a rehabilitation center 37 00:05:58.019 --> 00:05:59.779 and people from Harvard. 38 00:06:00.019 --> 00:06:04.579 And then after a while, that was not very conducive to my spirit. 39 00:06:05.379 --> 00:06:08.579 When I heard about people who were in Austin 40 00:06:08.274 --> 00:06:10.834 and people who are interested in spirituality 41 00:06:10.834 --> 00:06:12.514 and innovative 42 00:06:12.514 --> 00:06:13.634 technology, 43 00:06:13.954 --> 00:06:20.354 I think this is, you know, wonderful. And I had a dream. I had a dream that I needed to go and visit 44 00:06:20.929 --> 00:06:24.609 or live near the lake that is in the shape of a dragon. 45 00:06:24.849 --> 00:06:26.129 Literally in a dream, 46 00:06:26.849 --> 00:06:29.969 it told me go to the Dragon Lake with crystal bottoms. 47 00:06:30.769 --> 00:06:33.009 So if you look at a map at 48 00:06:33.569 --> 00:06:34.929 the Lake Travis, 49 00:06:36.154 --> 00:06:42.474 and you turn it around upside down, you know, from how it presents on the map. It's a ship dragon 50 00:06:42.474 --> 00:06:44.474 and my home is right, 51 00:06:45.034 --> 00:06:47.194 my home is right on the lake now. 52 00:06:47.434 --> 00:06:48.794 And it's literally, 53 00:06:49.754 --> 00:06:51.194 I'm on maybe 54 00:06:51.549 --> 00:06:53.709 almost to the end of its tale, 55 00:06:53.949 --> 00:06:55.789 writing a tale of a dragon. 56 00:06:56.029 --> 00:07:01.149 And, you know, the Colorado River Trail, well, even even Barton Springs, 57 00:07:01.309 --> 00:07:02.989 it's laden with crystals at the bottom. 58 00:07:03.724 --> 00:07:14.124 You know, when I first came to to Austin, was palpable that it just felt different and very unexpected, especially for me coming from the Northeast. I grew up in New Hampshire and I expected 59 00:07:14.284 --> 00:07:20.599 coming to Texas for the first time, it'd all be like 10 gallon hats and tumbleweeds and desert and that that whole thing roused snakes everywhere. 60 00:07:20.839 --> 00:07:29.079 And I felt especially going to the springs, as you mentioned, and being around all that limestone and and the with all the caves going on, the underground caverns, 61 00:07:29.319 --> 00:07:32.599 just the richness of of resources. I felt so 62 00:07:33.004 --> 00:07:42.364 grounded and just relaxed. But I have noticed, especially in recent years, that's not true in every part of town anymore. Like some places, you definitely feel like you're getting microwaved. 63 00:07:42.604 --> 00:07:43.324 Yeah. 64 00:07:43.404 --> 00:07:49.679 It's different. Yeah. As you said, and I think native Americans had caves with the engravings there 65 00:07:49.919 --> 00:07:56.559 in Barton Springs. And if you notice the the mineral content of the water in Martin Springs is very curative. 66 00:07:56.879 --> 00:08:09.034 So it's always 72 degrees, if I'm correct, if I'm not missing. Somewhere around there. Yeah. Something like that. And you go in and you you can swim. It feels like it's moving like maybe like oil, 67 00:08:09.194 --> 00:08:10.234 but it's water 68 00:08:10.554 --> 00:08:12.314 because it's so rich in minerals. 69 00:08:12.874 --> 00:08:19.319 And so that's what I perceived in my dream, except that Colorado River is slightly different, you know, right here. 70 00:08:20.199 --> 00:08:22.999 But then it's Lake Travagore, it's a river. So 71 00:08:23.479 --> 00:08:27.159 I just love it here, but I think it's very, 72 00:08:27.799 --> 00:08:28.999 very rich in 73 00:08:29.479 --> 00:08:30.439 ancient culture. 74 00:08:32.224 --> 00:08:33.024 Agreed. 75 00:08:33.024 --> 00:08:43.904 And this is so interesting because you are a neuroscientist and you've got a couple of PhDs, no big deal, but I also studied the brain as an undergrad in school. And, you know, even at an elite school, 76 00:08:44.749 --> 00:09:02.624 they didn't teach you about the connection between the brain and consciousness, really. They they taught you about all the machinery that was going on and the chemicals and that sort of thing. But they didn't really talk about light and they didn't talk about circadian biology or anything like that. So I I think it's really important that people who come with a pedigreed background, 77 00:09:02.864 --> 00:09:04.304 and and education 78 00:09:05.264 --> 00:09:05.984 that 79 00:09:06.304 --> 00:09:17.289 you try to make that connection or at least acknowledge that it's important as part of the conversation because it shouldn't be just siphoned off to the theology department. Right? Like,

need some intercommunication 80 00:09:17.289 --> 00:09:21.689 there, especially as we move forward as humans. So maybe you could just talk about that a little bit. 81 00:09:22.089 --> 00:09:24.649 Yeah. Well, also life is homogeneous, 82 00:09:24.649 --> 00:09:37.324 you know? I mean, it's fractal, so we were all involved in at every level. We're here, there, and everywhere all at once. But if you live the way that we all are, you know, you don't distinguish, 83 00:09:37.869 --> 00:09:39.149 you don't separate 84 00:09:39.469 --> 00:09:41.629 your, you know, being from 85 00:09:41.949 --> 00:09:47.069 something else. It's not separated. It's all united. It's all holistic. 86 00:09:47.469 --> 00:09:51.149 So it's kind of, I think that Rockefeller institution 87 00:09:51.229 --> 00:09:52.474 and institutionalized 88 00:09:52.474 --> 00:09:53.674 education 89 00:09:53.834 --> 00:09:56.954 has skewed that part because prior to that 90 00:09:57.514 --> 00:10:00.074 education was more natural 91 00:10:00.634 --> 00:10:03.834 and we're coming back to it now, which is really refreshing. 92 00:10:04.739 --> 00:10:05.539 Personally, 93 00:10:05.619 --> 00:10:19.619 I've always been drawn to, since a very young age, like maybe two, three years old, I was always been drawn to Native American fables and stories and lore, you know, like, and then that to this day. I studied also 94 00:10:19.934 --> 00:10:21.294 ancient languages 95 00:10:21.294 --> 00:10:21.934 and 96 00:10:22.414 --> 00:10:24.014 I'm a Vedic meditator 97 00:10:24.014 --> 00:10:26.494 of many years, Rishi and the Siddha. 98 00:10:26.654 --> 00:10:31.614 And I've studied with my teachers, both from Himalayas, but also some of my teachers were 99 00:10:31.934 --> 00:10:33.934 shamans from, you know, from 100 00:10:34.654 --> 00:10:35.454 native American 101 00:10:35.829 --> 00:10:36.709 lineage. 102 00:10:36.949 --> 00:10:41.749 So that's also something and we spent quite a bit of time with recording 103 00:10:41.989 --> 00:10:44.069 in our recording studio also, 104 00:10:44.229 --> 00:10:46.389 shamanic rituals and shamanic songs. 105 00:10:47.924 --> 00:10:54.164 So that's part of my heart, you know. And partially, I think that's why because it's 106 00:10:54.164 --> 00:10:55.604 connected to authenticity. 107 00:10:55.924 --> 00:11:00.084 You know, I think that the currency of the future will be authenticity. 108 00:11:00.559 --> 00:11:02.399 You know, there is no transparency, 109 00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:04.719 authenticity. There is no space for 110 00:11:05.119 --> 00:11:10.079 deceit. There is no space for not being direct and not being of heart. 111 00:11:10.399 --> 00:11:12.079 And I think if you're of heart, 112 00:11:12.239 --> 00:11:18.394 then it's something that you connect everything. So going back to the question, I think that education 113 00:11:18.394 --> 00:11:20.874 as we have known it until now, 114 00:11:21.114 --> 00:11:24.634 and still, you know, regular university education, 115 00:11:24.874 --> 00:11:27.274 is still not very much of heart. 116 00:11:27.754 --> 00:11:36.479 You know, if you come from the heart, then you can connect the heart and the brain and the gut, and your whole being, therefore toroidal field is connected. 117 00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:39.839 But people used to tend to not do it. However, 118 00:11:40.079 --> 00:11:41.679 even some teachers, 119 00:11:42.079 --> 00:11:42.879 professors, 120 00:11:42.959 --> 00:11:46.159 even when we went to school, they would accept that. 121 00:11:48.554 --> 00:11:57.354 My professor, you know, was like maybe 14, my professor of Sanskrit, he ended up, you know, teaching philosophy, but he offered us the fundamental 122 00:11:57.354 --> 00:12:02.429 basis of Sanskrit. And that's how I got interested in Vedas and Vedantas. 123 00:12:02.509 --> 00:12:05.549 And basically he translated it into very beautiful 124 00:12:05.949 --> 00:12:07.229 magical stories, 125 00:12:07.309 --> 00:12:08.029 you know. 126 00:12:08.429 --> 00:12:11.869 And so with my child, would, you know, when she was very young, 127 00:12:12.269 --> 00:12:15.514 I did not shy away from talking about Mahaprata 128 00:12:15.514 --> 00:12:17.114 or, you know, something 129 00:12:17.434 --> 00:12:31.129 as far out as from Western medicine, Western perspective you would think that it's far out. But it's not. It's just a different culture and you introduce people to different things. And I think it's much healthier to be involved in holistic 130 00:12:31.129 --> 00:12:32.089 perspective. 131 00:12:33.529 --> 00:12:34.169 Yeah. 132 00:12:34.489 --> 00:12:35.209 I mean, 133 00:12:36.169 --> 00:12:38.569 growing up in The States, you don't really know 134 00:12:39.289 --> 00:12:52.174 what reality is outside of that. And, for me, it was such a shocker the first time I went to Asia and, like, saw people literally practicing magic every day, like on the streets and putting out offerings and rituals 135 00:12:52.174 --> 00:12:57.534 and all of this just richness of human experience that we were kind of told is just 136 00:12:57.919 --> 00:13:01.279 tomfoolery or or goofing around or some primitive 137 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:05.519 throwaway thing that we've evolved or progressed beyond. 138 00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:08.639 And, it's becoming very obvious, I think. 139 00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:12.079 And I'm curious if you have a similar experience. 140 00:13:12.319 --> 00:13:15.114 Like, when I leave The States and then I come back, 141 00:13:15.754 --> 00:13:17.594 there's, like, a heaviness 142 00:13:17.834 --> 00:13:23.754 to people's countenance and the way they move is slower, and it's it's like a piece of them 143 00:13:23.994 --> 00:13:27.754 themselves or their spirit has been snuffed out or subtracted 144 00:13:27.754 --> 00:13:28.154 somehow. 145 00:13:28.809 --> 00:13:31.689 Yeah. I think that, there's some nations 146 00:13:31.929 --> 00:13:33.849 in India or in Africa. 147 00:13:34.729 -->

00:13:39.689 I've been drawn to African music quite a bit recently because of the rhythm and, 148 00:13:40.009 --> 00:13:44.864 or native, you know, Santa Fe area. There there are some natives that are amazing. 149 00:13:45.264 --> 00:13:46.704 And authenticity 150 00:13:46.704 --> 00:13:47.344 and 151 00:13:48.144 --> 00:13:49.664 purity of the spirit 152 00:13:50.944 --> 00:13:52.944 lauded. It's 153 00:13:52.944 --> 00:14:01.339 just a necessary element of everyday life and probably the top element of everyday life, which is I think what creates the everyday 154 00:14:01.419 --> 00:14:03.099 life being magic. 155 00:14:03.739 --> 00:14:05.419 Why not living in bliss? 156 00:14:06.939 --> 00:14:11.499 I'm thinking these days, it's been now quite many years now, that I choose to live in bliss. 157 00:14:12.064 --> 00:14:13.744 Yes, there are stressful times, 158 00:14:14.064 --> 00:14:21.824 and we can have stressful times, but you can snap out of it if you can, you know, by looking at the sun or going out or 159 00:14:22.384 --> 00:14:28.119 basically reminding yourself that, hey, this will pass. And now take a deep breath and 160 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:34.919 maybe I can play some music or sing something and then I'll get myself back to the vibration of 161 00:14:35.399 --> 00:14:36.839 peace and bliss. 162 00:14:37.079 --> 00:14:41.479 And I'm not saying ecstatic bliss all the time, but definitely just calmness and 163 00:14:41.684 --> 00:14:42.644 appreciation. 164 00:14:42.884 --> 00:14:45.364 So, in Italy, we have a 165 00:14:45.844 --> 00:14:56.079 It's a very different culture than America, you know. So, we will sit in the restaurant and, you know, sometimes somebody will come in and sing something and the whole restaurant sing along. 166 00:14:56.639 --> 00:15:00.159 I haven't experienced that in America. 167 00:15:00.239 --> 00:15:03.119 No. And it's normal for us to sing a lot 168 00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:06.159 or to get up and dance or 169 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:08.159 people, 170 00:15:08.319 --> 00:15:09.439 you know, will cook together. 171 00:15:10.104 --> 00:15:15.464 Cooking is a very big part of our culture, know. It's an extension of the heart. 172 00:15:15.784 --> 00:15:29.239 And so, you're my friend, I love you, I'll cook for you. You know, it's a thing that we do. Or let's have a cup of coffee or tea and we'll have a really long chat. And then the meals or 173 00:15:29.719 --> 00:15:32.599 culture of the spirit is more of 174 00:15:33.479 --> 00:15:34.359 inclusive, 175 00:15:34.439 --> 00:15:57.529 you know. If you go, I don't know whether it happened to you to be in Italy and you'll see somebody on the street, you know, strike a conversation or in the museum and at a certain point they'll invite you to their home or they'll invite you to a restaurant for dinner or they'll be more open. And I think that that is I understand. I've never been to India yet. Scheduled twice and twice the trip was canceled. 176 00:15:57.689 --> 00:16:01.129 But all my friends and teachers from India, they're very warm. 177 00:16:01.609 --> 00:16:06.009 And I've experienced that Mexico. People are very sweet and very loving. 178 00:16:07.174 --> 00:16:24.189 So this kind of having your heart more open and more a little bit like what animals have, know. A small child or dog will come to you and will give you a kiss, know, on your leg or in your hand without a problem, you know, no matter who you are. 179 00:16:25.149 --> 00:16:32.109 And I think being open at the spiritual level and holistic level, it's just very beautiful, very natural. 180 00:16:33.514 --> 00:16:34.314 And 181 00:16:34.314 --> 00:16:35.594 if you are stuck, 182 00:16:35.914 --> 00:16:45.434 that doesn't need to be a permanent personality thing. There are ways to kind of break out of this trance, so to speak. Right? And so maybe we can talk about the nature of 183 00:16:46.029 --> 00:16:59.629 of trance. What exactly is going on, whether it's a shamanic ritual or listening to a song or in a dance or something else? What happens to human beings? What's the origin of trance? Just like all of it. Let's open up a can of worms here. 184 00:17:00.634 --> 00:17:07.834 You know, personally, when you're in Vedic meditation, for example, you drop into the state of no expectation. 185 00:17:08.394 --> 00:17:12.634 So there is nothing that you basically take a deep breath in and then 186 00:17:13.339 --> 00:17:16.379 unlike other methodologies of meditation, 187 00:17:16.459 --> 00:17:20.299 you simply and I'm by no means a teacher, I refer to my teachers you 188 00:17:20.779 --> 00:17:30.134 just lean back and you have your back supported and you let the thoughts, you know, you have your bija mantra, which is nonsensical mantra, doesn't have any, but it's in Sanskrit. 189 00:17:30.214 --> 00:17:36.694 And it's derived from your features and your teacher gives it to you. And you can have simple initial mantra and then you can have advanced 190 00:17:37.414 --> 00:17:38.294 mantras. 191 00:17:38.454 --> 00:17:43.814 Every year you're supposed to get another mantra to get to the next level. It's a sound that resonates with the universe. 192 00:17:44.499 --> 00:17:45.779 And universal, 193 00:17:45.779 --> 00:17:48.339 you know, maybe Symphony of the Spheres or, 194 00:17:48.499 --> 00:17:49.939 you know, Samovit, 195 00:17:49.939 --> 00:17:51.699 you can have a lot of, you know, 196 00:17:52.739 --> 00:17:55.059 you probably know Ravi Shankar's music, 197 00:17:55.459 --> 00:17:56.099 that's 198 00:17:56.499 --> 00:18:01.754 where you can see the sitar mimics the sounds that the universe emits, 199 00:18:01.914 --> 00:18:02.714 that the 200 00:18:03.274 --> 00:18:04.474 cosmos emits. 201 00:18:04.794 --> 00:18:07.434 So you just simply, you have no 202 00:18:07.834 --> 00:18:08.794 parameters. 203 00:18:08.874 --> 00:18:13.434 You sit, you don't have to pay attention to your breath, you don't have to pay attention to your

thinking, 204 00:18:13.754 --> 00:18:14.714 you can just observe. 205 00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:18.079 And the best I can describe it is 206 00:18:18.239 --> 00:18:23.519 at the beginning it's like a little bit vibrationally busy and then it kind of starts 207 00:18:23.759 --> 00:18:29.599 settling down almost like in a lake. It starts settling down to the bottom. Then you feel 208 00:18:29.784 --> 00:18:32.504 your essence of your being, your soul, you feel 209 00:18:32.664 --> 00:18:33.864 rising up. 210 00:18:34.504 --> 00:18:40.024 And that's the beginning of this, you know, at that point, just maybe an inkling of ecstatic state. 211 00:18:40.504 --> 00:18:42.184 You know? So 212 00:18:42.184 --> 00:18:47.479 not necessarily it's the rising of a Kundalini, but you just go into the next level 213 00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:52.839 and you float literally. I mean, you end up floating a little bit and your 214 00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:54.279 body 215 00:18:54.439 --> 00:19:00.039 usually kind of collapses. Don't, your head is not upright anymore. Your muscles relax. 216 00:19:00.364 --> 00:19:11.964 And so if somebody looks at you from the outside, they will say, oh, perhaps she or he is sleeping, you know, and it's not sleep. In fact, what it is, is twenty minutes or thirty minutes of Vedic meditation. 217 00:19:12.124 --> 00:19:15.404 It's equivalent of probably several hours of sleep. 218 00:19:16.139 --> 00:19:18.859 So people get refreshed and you have much more energy. 219 00:19:19.259 --> 00:19:21.419 And I mimic that, 220 00:19:21.659 --> 00:19:24.299 my systems mimic that in neurotechnology. 221 00:19:24.459 --> 00:19:26.859 So what it is, is the state of flow. 222 00:19:27.259 --> 00:19:32.074 And the state of flow is repeated with certain specificity for many 223 00:19:32.314 --> 00:19:33.514 months or years, 224 00:19:33.834 --> 00:19:35.514 you end up understanding 225 00:19:35.514 --> 00:19:39.914 how to quickly access it and go into the next level. 226 00:19:40.314 --> 00:19:41.834 And you can access bliss, 227 00:19:42.229 --> 00:19:47.509 you know, if you're trained in that, if you're like literally letting go of reality 228 00:19:48.069 --> 00:19:52.709 or of perceptual reality of three dimensionality or what we're having 229 00:19:52.869 --> 00:19:57.574 here, you know, and you end up letting it go and going into the next level. 230 00:19:57.894 --> 00:19:58.614 And 231 00:20:01.014 --> 00:20:04.534 just like in twirling dervishes or in, you know, 232 00:20:04.934 --> 00:20:12.079 Carantella in different practices in different parts of the world, end up with that kind of sense of ecstasy, 233 00:20:12.399 --> 00:20:14.959 you know. Not necessarily every time you meditate, 234 00:20:14.959 --> 00:20:16.239 but oftentimes 235 00:20:16.239 --> 00:20:22.319 you end up with, you know, a real beautiful bliss. And what's nice about it is that your DMT is 236 00:20:22.639 --> 00:20:23.439 self provoked. 237 00:20:24.034 --> 00:20:33.714 You don't need to take MDMA or psilocybin or, you know, where also you don't know where it will lead you, you know, whereas with this you have more 238 00:20:34.274 --> 00:20:35.314 your own natural, 239 00:20:35.929 --> 00:20:42.009 I'm not saying control, because you're let go and you let your higher self united with nature 240 00:20:42.169 --> 00:20:43.209 take over. 241 00:20:44.569 --> 00:20:47.129 So in that respect, you lose control, 242 00:20:47.209 --> 00:20:50.409 but you gain more control because your higher self is united 243 00:20:50.554 --> 00:20:52.394 with unity consciousness, 244 00:20:52.394 --> 00:20:55.194 with with basically nature consciousness, 245 00:20:55.274 --> 00:20:56.554 and that takes over. 246 00:20:56.714 --> 00:20:58.554 And it's ascension, so 247 00:20:58.794 --> 00:21:00.714 it's it's more adequate, 248 00:21:00.714 --> 00:21:02.634 more appropriate for your own being. 249 00:21:03.939 --> 00:21:05.059 Does that make sense? 250 00:21:05.379 --> 00:21:07.139 It does. Yes. And 251 00:21:07.859 --> 00:21:08.579 with 252 00:21:08.659 --> 00:21:10.579 especially in the Western world, 253 00:21:10.819 --> 00:21:17.219 a lot of the shamanic experience kind of be not being there in the same way that it is in a lot of the worldwide culture. 254 00:21:17.784 --> 00:21:24.824 You do need to be discerning when you start trying to be a psychonaut, right? Whether you're talking about psychedelics or finding a shaman or a healer, 255 00:21:25.064 --> 00:21:32.584 what is the way to do so being informed by Western medicine, but also being open to the possibilities that are well beyond it? 256 00:21:34.169 --> 00:21:34.969 That's 257 00:21:34.969 --> 00:21:41.209 a very, very good question. It's also a question that is maybe provocative because, you know, there's so many people, 258 00:21:41.529 --> 00:21:44.169 you see it in Austin, it's very 259 00:21:44.489 --> 00:21:50.514 evident, you know, there's so many people who are self proclaimed shamans or self proclaimed 260 00:21:50.514 --> 00:21:51.794 experts. 261 00:21:52.114 --> 00:21:53.314 There is a lot of that. 262 00:21:53.714 --> 00:21:57.234 So I think one of the ways that I 263 00:21:57.554 --> 00:22:01.714 trust that it's really working is the proof is in the pudding. 264 00:22:02.339 --> 00:22:04.339 Either it works or it doesn't. 265 00:22:04.819 --> 00:22:07.459 So if you're a musician, so if you 266 00:22:08.099 --> 00:22:12.259 want to form a band or you're in with a player, another player, 267 00:22:12.499 --> 00:22:17.459 there is that je ne sais quoi that you know that will tell you whether that person 268 00:22:17.964 --> 00:22:20.764 knows what he's doing when he's riffing on a guitar. 269 00:22:22.364 --> 00:22:30.684 You know that you can actually have a good band session with that person, and if you record you don't have to take 20 takes, you know. It'll be you go into the groove, 270 00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:38.799 or if you're a jazz player or a blues

player, can improvise and go into that state together. This is basically a state of 271 00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:40.079 authentically 272 00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:42.959 finding the union with that other soul 273 00:22:43.279 --> 00:22:43.919 and 274 00:22:45.264 --> 00:22:49.264 concretely kind of elaborate on that. So I think that happens 275 00:22:49.504 --> 00:22:53.824 with our teachers in science, that happens with our teachers in 276 00:22:54.384 --> 00:22:57.184 English, in writing, you know, when you 277 00:22:58.144 --> 00:22:59.104 learn from somebody 278 00:22:59.609 --> 00:23:01.769 to write your paragraphs or write your scripts, 279 00:23:02.009 --> 00:23:05.209 you end up, you know, jamming with them in a different way. 280 00:23:06.169 --> 00:23:08.729 So it's really finding 281 00:23:08.729 --> 00:23:09.609 this 282 00:23:09.849 --> 00:23:11.049 union of 283 00:23:11.689 --> 00:23:12.569 understanding 284 00:23:12.729 --> 00:23:13.609 and discerning 285 00:23:14.264 --> 00:23:16.824 where vibrationally each one of you is. 286 00:23:17.064 --> 00:23:21.384 And so the idea, I think in my humble opinion, is that 287 00:23:21.544 --> 00:23:23.224 you end up finding 288 00:23:23.704 --> 00:23:28.344 feeling or your knowledge, your database will tell you, well this person 289 00:23:29.319 --> 00:23:32.759 actually can hold a debate with me on neuroscience 290 00:23:33.079 --> 00:23:37.879 or this person, if I mention certain books or certain aspects, 291 00:23:38.279 --> 00:23:40.039 they will not know where to go. 292 00:23:40.679 --> 00:23:45.774 And you don't have to be, you know, there is no arrogance necessary for that, but you just know 293 00:23:46.014 --> 00:23:53.694 that certain things. When people talk about, you know, call themselves shamans or they go into certain, 294 00:23:53.934 --> 00:23:55.774 you know, claim of neuroscience, 295 00:23:56.254 --> 00:23:57.054 oftentimes, 296 00:23:57.134 --> 00:24:00.699 you know, I'm thinking, you know, if you have a lawsuit, 297 00:24:00.779 --> 00:24:02.619 you wouldn't go with a paralegal. 298 00:24:02.859 --> 00:24:04.379 Wouldn't go with a proper So 299 00:24:06.299 --> 00:24:07.339 the same with, 300 00:24:07.659 --> 00:24:19.264 or if you, you know, you break your leg skiing, the same thing. You would not go to speak with somebody who has never had a surgery on his hands or her hands. You would go with them, 301 00:24:19.664 --> 00:24:20.384 with 302 00:24:20.944 --> 00:24:22.144 appropriate people. 303 00:24:22.544 --> 00:24:25.184 And so I think in the world of wellness 304 00:24:25.184 --> 00:24:25.744 nowadays, 305 00:24:26.489 --> 00:24:31.689 discernment is really important because a lot of people, it's at the margins of unknown, 306 00:24:32.009 --> 00:24:34.089 especially with new knowledge, 307 00:24:34.489 --> 00:24:35.689 and people don't 308 00:24:35.849 --> 00:24:44.094 either they refer to, you know, what they have seen on YouTube and or on Google and then they think

they know a lot more. 309 00:24:44.974 --> 00:24:50.334 There is something to be said about studying or about learning humbly from 310 00:24:50.574 --> 00:24:53.374 different books, different articles, different teachers. 311 00:24:54.039 --> 00:24:57.399 You know. It's it's either you you know it or you don't. 312 00:24:58.999 --> 00:25:01.079 I sense that you've studied 313 00:25:01.479 --> 00:25:25.139 spiritual traditions deeply and, at least in my experience, which is quite limited, most of that doesn't come through the Internet and certainly not through AI. It's in old dusty books that still have that leathery smell and, you know, it's kinda you gotta go down into the musty basement or you gotta do the work to find the teacher who has that special book at his library or whatever it is. How do you see the kind of advancing 314 00:25:26.339 --> 00:25:28.659 human knowledge from a spiritual direction 315 00:25:29.299 --> 00:25:31.059 amidst the sloppification 316 00:25:31.139 --> 00:25:32.819 of everything from AI? 317 00:25:33.754 --> 00:25:37.434 What's the way forward or what's the way to keep learning? Do we go back to books? 318 00:25:37.754 --> 00:25:38.394 Yeah. 319 00:25:39.834 --> 00:25:40.794 Very good question. 320 00:25:41.114 --> 00:25:42.234 I personally 321 00:25:42.234 --> 00:25:44.714 prefer human touch and human knowledge. 322 00:25:45.114 --> 00:25:50.449 I think I studied with Tom Noss. I first studied with Tom Noss a long time ago. He 323 00:25:51.089 --> 00:25:55.649 teaches the Patanjali School of Thought and then I studied with many different teachers. 324 00:25:56.609 --> 00:26:00.609 Right now I'm connected with a group in New York City with 325 00:26:01.009 --> 00:26:02.129 a few really, 326 00:26:02.484 --> 00:26:10.244 really even younger teachers, they're really brilliant and really good. Emily McCarthy is one of them, Doctor. Raju from 327 00:26:10.244 --> 00:26:11.204 Himalayas, 328 00:26:11.204 --> 00:26:13.924 they have a beautiful school of Ayurveda. 329 00:26:14.964 --> 00:26:17.419 It's a bunch of people who 330 00:26:19.019 --> 00:26:20.219 have very similar 331 00:26:20.699 --> 00:26:31.914 school of thought, or it's in the lineage of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and Patanjali school of thought. And so you can choose to then you know, take some courses and over years 332 00:26:32.154 --> 00:26:41.514 you can perfect the courses. Know, you basically attend to these courses and they're not simple, you know, they're really deep knowledge and we have usually 333 00:26:41.809 --> 00:26:47.729 you take like a retreat and you have for three days and three nights you're just studying that. You're hearing some 334 00:26:48.769 --> 00:26:53.089 of it at night and you have exchanges with your teachers. And then you're 335 00:26:53.649 --> 00:26:55.329 adhering to specific grounding, 336 00:26:55.904 --> 00:26:59.584 basic elements of yoga, and that kitchari is zero food, 337 00:27:00.064 --> 00:27:01.744 very, very simple

things. 338 00:27:01.984 --> 00:27:03.024 But it 339 00:27:03.264 --> 00:27:06.144 deepens the knowledge in a very authentic way. 340 00:27:06.384 --> 00:27:09.904 So I also am not very eager to use 341 00:27:10.439 --> 00:27:14.039 any, you know, like AI. I create organic intelligence 342 00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:16.919 and we can go deeper in that, but I 343 00:27:17.319 --> 00:27:18.199 personally 344 00:27:18.199 --> 00:27:19.159 do not 345 00:27:19.319 --> 00:27:20.759 subscribe to AI. 346 00:27:21.239 --> 00:27:23.399 And I tested it in science 347 00:27:23.879 --> 00:27:36.574 when ChatGPT first came out. Well, not really, that was just maybe a year ago. I tested it because I wanted to take some shortcuts, you know, and understand what is going on. And a lot of my friends are using ChatGPT, 348 00:27:36.574 --> 00:27:38.094 you know. And 349 00:27:38.699 --> 00:27:42.859 I pulled in some articles with some specific frequency 350 00:27:42.859 --> 00:27:43.659 based 351 00:27:43.899 --> 00:27:44.779 hypothesis 352 00:27:44.779 --> 00:27:45.499 and 353 00:27:46.139 --> 00:27:47.579 came out wrong. 354 00:27:47.819 --> 00:27:50.299 Even some of my own articles were quoted wrong. 355 00:27:50.964 --> 00:27:54.324 And I have, like in my stories on my Instagram, 356 00:27:54.404 --> 00:27:57.124 I have a whole sequence that I describe my experience, 357 00:27:57.444 --> 00:28:03.844 which is quite interesting. Know, you say, can you find this and that article? It says, no, that article doesn't exist. 358 00:28:04.164 --> 00:28:05.524 But then you give it like a clue. 359 00:28:06.069 --> 00:28:11.029 And then it says, oh yeah, yeah, there is an article of that. But it gives you wrong names. 360 00:28:12.069 --> 00:28:18.789 So maybe my name is first. I experimented a few, you know, colleagues' names and my name. And then 361 00:28:18.984 --> 00:28:30.264 it says, well, there is no more. And then you feed it another one. And then it says, well, there is more. And then you feed it a third one. And then when you're done with 15 of them, we start from zero. 362 00:28:30.919 --> 00:28:34.119 It's like a bad law court case 363 00:28:34.519 --> 00:28:37.799 where a person claims, No, I don't have anything. And then they 364 00:28:39.159 --> 00:28:40.519 discovered they have a lot. 365 00:28:40.999 --> 00:28:41.639 So 366 00:28:41.799 --> 00:28:44.279 at the end, I ask you to 367 00:28:44.524 --> 00:28:46.044 please remember it 368 00:28:46.204 --> 00:28:47.804 and log it in. 369 00:28:48.044 --> 00:28:51.324 And it came back with the answer, no, I can't do that. 370 00:28:51.884 --> 00:28:56.284 So what comes back to me is that somebody 371 00:28:56.444 --> 00:28:57.484 wrote those codes. 372 00:28:58.439 --> 00:29:06.199 And I would love to know the face of that person who wrote those codes. And what is perplexing is how many intelligent people 373 00:29:06.599 --> 00:29:08.119 have fallen for it. 374 00:29:08.839 --> 00:29:12.519 You know, like I know brilliant people who just go blindly for the shortcut. 375 00:29:13.134 --> 00:29:17.774 And I don't have anything against it. Like, you know, maybe Claude is better now. And, 376 00:29:18.094 --> 00:29:25.694 you know, I've used perplexity many times for references of, you know, where do I file the documents? I have to have FDA 377 00:29:25.694 --> 00:29:31.049 approval now, so I'm filing all of that. So it's just a shortcut. It's really convenient. 378 00:29:31.289 --> 00:29:33.849 But to blindly believe it and 379 00:29:34.009 --> 00:29:35.369 get teachings 380 00:29:35.369 --> 00:29:38.169 from it about your spiritual values 381 00:29:38.169 --> 00:29:39.449 from a robot, 382 00:29:40.089 --> 00:29:41.929 or you don't know who coded it, 383 00:29:43.049 --> 00:29:45.444 I would not do that personally. 384 00:29:45.844 --> 00:29:47.284 I think that's hard. 385 00:29:48.644 --> 00:29:49.284 Yeah. 386 00:29:49.444 --> 00:29:51.604 Well, and we're seeing too that it weakens 387 00:29:51.604 --> 00:29:55.844 humans' like cognitive function and the creativity 388 00:29:55.844 --> 00:29:58.564 and and the rest of that. If you use it too much as a crutch, 389 00:29:58.884 --> 00:30:01.799 you are atrophying it in terms of your own 390 00:30:02.359 --> 00:30:03.799 state of being like for me, 391 00:30:04.119 --> 00:30:06.359 for music, I'm relatively unthreatened 392 00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:08.039 by AI generated 393 00:30:08.439 --> 00:30:25.214 recorded music because it's just, I mean, it's fine, but a musician will never really listen to it and be like, wow. Yeah. I wanna play that. For the most part, it's that's not what music is. And and maybe we can talk about that next. Music is more than just like the sound file. 394 00:30:25.919 --> 00:30:27.359 It's a holistic 395 00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:28.319 experience 396 00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:32.159 and what really makes it magical is that connection. 397 00:30:32.719 --> 00:30:39.039 And I'd be curious to hear your piece on this too because there's been a lot of talk in healing circles about four thirty two being the perfect 398 00:30:39.604 --> 00:30:41.924 pitch for, healing frequencies 399 00:30:41.924 --> 00:31:02.579 or, five twenty eight. I often tune in four forty four, a little bit sharper than four forty. But my take on all of this is that music is not so simple as there's a perfect frequency for everyone all the time. The magic of it once again is meeting people kind of where they are, uplifting them from a state of being such that if you're playing for a crowd, 400 00:31:03.139 --> 00:31:08.579 you are trying to kind of like massage the situation to make it better than it would otherwise be, 401 00:31:09.594 --> 00:31:11.274 more fun, more jovial, 402 00:31:11.434 --> 00:31:13.514 whatever that is. Now it could be the opposite 403 00:31:13.754 --> 00:31:21.034 and certain frequencies enter into it. But how do you think about all of this, especially given your background in ethnomusicology?

404 00:31:22.074 --> 00:31:22.634 So 405 00:31:23.289 --> 00:31:25.769 I think that people in, for example, 406 00:31:26.169 --> 00:31:27.849 I mean, just one example, 407 00:31:28.009 --> 00:31:30.329 you you as a musician, you understand that. 408 00:31:30.809 --> 00:31:36.649 I come from, like, we owned, with my ex husband, we owned a recording studio, a production studio in Manhattan. 409 00:31:37.134 --> 00:31:41.854 So we recorded oftentimes people from the lore of Alan Lomax. 410 00:31:42.334 --> 00:31:45.774 One of the men, Gideon DeCangelo, was archiving 411 00:31:45.774 --> 00:31:48.894 all the native music of America 412 00:31:49.054 --> 00:31:52.469 for the moment. So we helped with that. My ex husband helped with that. 413 00:31:52.869 --> 00:32:00.549 And we were, you know, so familiar, we would go also to North Porto Arctic Circle to record the Yoikin of the nomadic groups, 414 00:32:00.789 --> 00:32:06.854 you know, with Sami people. We were an unofficial embassy of Sami people in New York City. 415 00:32:07.174 --> 00:32:11.254 There was a lot of I love listen to some of this. You know, very beautiful. 416 00:32:11.414 --> 00:32:16.294 This was this was passion for both of us, so we just, like, recorded a lot of beautiful, 417 00:32:16.294 --> 00:32:21.129 valuable lore, you know. So what is one common denominator, 418 00:32:21.129 --> 00:32:29.129 and I'm in November, I'm going to be in Africa and in Egypt, and I'm going to go to the Bedouin villages to record because I'm planning 419 00:32:29.289 --> 00:32:43.984 on creating the film on Ascension actually, on what what what is human doing? What would we as human beings do when we are growing into this crystalline body? What does that mean? And how do we remember Atlantis? 420 00:32:43.984 --> 00:32:45.744 Why is that connected 421 00:32:46.129 --> 00:32:49.409 to a Bedouin village, for example, where people 422 00:32:49.409 --> 00:32:51.089 are still playing 423 00:32:51.329 --> 00:32:52.209 antique, 424 00:32:52.849 --> 00:32:54.209 authentic instruments 425 00:32:54.449 --> 00:32:55.649 and the 426 00:32:56.209 --> 00:32:59.009 way that they're tuned and the way that they resonate 427 00:32:59.009 --> 00:32:59.969 through their cases, 428 00:33:00.384 --> 00:33:02.064 very natural. It's analog 429 00:33:02.304 --> 00:33:04.224 and it's authentic and it's 430 00:33:04.704 --> 00:33:05.744 resonating 431 00:33:05.744 --> 00:33:09.504 with, with, I think it's resonating with ley lines 432 00:33:09.744 --> 00:33:11.184 that I'm studying now. 433 00:33:11.344 --> 00:33:19.919 And there is not much science to right now, not too many people that I know of who have studied ley lines, maybe Graham Hancock 434 00:33:19.919 --> 00:33:21.919 can speak about it or some, 435 00:33:22.399 --> 00:33:26.559 you know, Ibrahim Karim is somebody dear to my heart and his teachings. 436 00:33:27.194 --> 00:33:29.274 You end up with understanding 437 00:33:29.274 --> 00:33:30.874 that these ley lines 438 00:33:31.114 --> 00:33:35.194 are basically connected in somehow fractal faction. 439 00:33:35.754 --> 00:33:39.194 And what do I mean by that? So, the idea is to 440 00:33:39.779 --> 00:33:41.299 approach the authentic 441 00:33:41.859 --> 00:33:42.579 player. 442 00:33:42.739 --> 00:33:52.339 For example, a musician who has been in, you know, tradition of village for maybe thousand years, you know, they're very authentic and also very schooled. 443 00:33:52.819 --> 00:33:54.419 Maybe not at the conservatorium, 444 00:33:54.419 --> 00:33:57.994 but in my life, in my perspective, that's probably more valuable, 445 00:33:58.794 --> 00:34:04.074 you know, more authentic and more deep. And so what their music usually reflects 446 00:34:04.234 --> 00:34:07.434 is it reflects some sort of harmonization 447 00:34:07.434 --> 00:34:08.314 of the universe. 448 00:34:09.409 --> 00:34:16.289 And how does that ripple effect in ether? What is happening in ether when that ripples? 449 00:34:16.449 --> 00:34:21.249 That's my jam. I like carbon to crystalline conversion, and I like to understand 450 00:34:21.329 --> 00:34:27.244 what is that. What, where are the pathways? And so the pathways are the ley lines. 451 00:34:27.644 --> 00:34:29.804 You know, you can actually, when 452 00:34:30.924 --> 00:34:33.244 they talk about Symphony of the Spheres, 453 00:34:33.244 --> 00:34:35.164 you know, it's usually 454 00:34:35.324 --> 00:34:39.599 there is somewhere in those numerical values, is a Fibonacci series. 455 00:34:39.759 --> 00:34:42.319 And the Fibonacci series and the fractals, 456 00:34:42.399 --> 00:34:45.119 you know, the Mandelbrot mathematics, 457 00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:45.599 really 458 00:34:46.159 --> 00:34:48.814 falls into this authentic 459 00:34:48.814 --> 00:34:50.574 connection to something 460 00:34:50.654 --> 00:34:54.494 that is essential to the not only human being but with nature. 461 00:34:55.054 --> 00:35:04.739 And I'm speaking not very educated in a very educated way at this level because what I've been looking at right now is just kind of a vast prism 462 00:35:05.619 --> 00:35:06.099 know, 463 00:35:06.499 --> 00:35:10.499 is that true vast prism? What is that that actually covers, 464 00:35:10.579 --> 00:35:16.259 that is covered in that vast prism? So if you pull yourself out of not only of Madagaya, 465 00:35:16.259 --> 00:35:18.419 but if you pull yourself into the cosmos, 466 00:35:19.104 --> 00:35:25.824 what appears? What is there? Why are the leylines connected to the sun and to the Orion belt? 467 00:35:25.904 --> 00:35:29.744 And why are the frequencies that will lead you there 468 00:35:30.144 --> 00:35:32.704 generated from your own inner 469 00:35:33.319 --> 00:35:34.119 pico 470 00:35:34.359 --> 00:35:35.079 level, 471 00:35:35.479 --> 00:35:37.479 you know, essence of your body. 472 00:35:37.719 --> 00:35:41.559 And at that point you end up not even talking about time space, 473 00:35:41.799 --> 00:35:43.879

because in ether there is no time space. 474 00:35:44.599 --> 00:35:55.884 And in my humble opinion, I think when you play music in that kind of knowledgeable way or feeling way, authentic way, you end up taking a shortcut, 475 00:35:55.884 --> 00:36:07.589 almost like in Egypt when they had ankh that was put next to your nose, you know, and this is what also with, you know, that state of the flow that we call that we think. For example, where I work with with 476 00:36:08.469 --> 00:36:10.149 really good musicians, 477 00:36:10.149 --> 00:36:17.594 they understand because they can or this this lady that I was just telling you about, she's a perfect, incredibly, incredible example 478 00:36:17.594 --> 00:36:19.754 of a medium, you know, of a sophisticated 479 00:36:20.874 --> 00:36:22.394 teacher and seer. 480 00:36:22.554 --> 00:36:28.074 And she enters the state, I mean, literally in three minutes, she's out there already and she's healed quickly, 481 00:36:28.879 --> 00:36:29.839 So 482 00:36:29.839 --> 00:36:37.279 there's some people who already studied and who have studied and who are primed in their mind body, in their biofield in general, 483 00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:40.639 to the levels that they can accept this very quickly 484 00:36:40.799 --> 00:36:41.919 and travel 485 00:36:41.919 --> 00:36:43.279 rather fast. 486 00:36:43.599 --> 00:36:46.024 And then other worlds open. 487 00:36:46.024 --> 00:36:46.824 For example, 488 00:36:47.704 --> 00:36:54.184 personally I have experienced, you look up in the sky at night and I can see the copper grid of Gaia, 489 00:36:54.264 --> 00:36:56.984 and it's in the form of the seed of life. 490 00:36:57.509 --> 00:36:59.589 And it was in New York City. 491 00:37:00.149 --> 00:37:01.429 Not expected 492 00:37:01.589 --> 00:37:07.109 to live in New York City. But now when you train your mind, which basically you drop the preconception, 493 00:37:07.189 --> 00:37:09.989 and you train your mind to just drop it and you understand, 494 00:37:10.494 --> 00:37:16.334 Then you can see the second layer. You can see the crystalline layer. You can see that it's all accessible to all of us. 495 00:37:16.814 --> 00:37:17.374 So 496 00:37:17.694 --> 00:37:19.774 I think that the picture is very vast. 497 00:37:20.094 --> 00:37:22.254 The music can be really 498 00:37:22.254 --> 00:37:24.094 a very incredible 499 00:37:24.094 --> 00:37:25.134 frequency vehicle 500 00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:27.239 to go there, as you were saying. 501 00:37:27.479 --> 00:37:28.999 I don't think that that 502 00:37:29.079 --> 00:37:29.879 specific, 503 00:37:29.959 --> 00:37:34.199 you know, just like when we really met the scales of consciousness, 504 00:37:34.759 --> 00:37:38.119 that's not aligned with my thinking. You know, I think it's about 505 00:37:38.439 --> 00:37:39.559 basically 506 00:37:40.044 --> 00:37:44.604 a sphere of ethereal knowledge or ethereal vibrational field. 507 00:37:44.844 --> 00:37:48.444 So you can't make a triangle and make the numbers 508 00:37:48.524 --> 00:37:55.484 of specific frequencies saying this is your consciousness, this the third level. That's a little bit of, you know, far fetched argument 509 00:37:55.779 --> 00:37:58.739 that doesn't even have any value in theory 510 00:37:59.059 --> 00:38:00.499 or in laws 511 00:38:00.499 --> 00:38:02.979 and practice, you know. Whereas 512 00:38:03.459 --> 00:38:07.699 if you speak with some really interesting physicists or astrophysicists 513 00:38:07.699 --> 00:38:08.819 or mathematicians 514 00:38:08.819 --> 00:38:10.099 who really understand 515 00:38:10.304 --> 00:38:12.064 the values of crystalline 516 00:38:12.064 --> 00:38:13.104 formations, 517 00:38:13.584 --> 00:38:15.904 there are laws and there are rules and regulations. 518 00:38:16.624 --> 00:38:19.024 And, you know, so that's why personally, I think 519 00:38:19.984 --> 00:38:24.859 Maxwellian physics was really quite valuable because before it was suppressed, 520 00:38:24.859 --> 00:38:26.219 you know, people 521 00:38:26.299 --> 00:38:26.939 were 522 00:38:27.579 --> 00:38:31.099 actually believing in ether, you know. It was not just 523 00:38:32.299 --> 00:38:33.179 considered 524 00:38:33.659 --> 00:38:34.539 non scientific. 525 00:38:36.444 --> 00:38:38.364 Does that answer your question? 526 00:38:39.004 --> 00:38:40.684 Yes, but I have more. 527 00:38:42.444 --> 00:38:44.524 So we've talked a bit about frequency, 528 00:38:44.764 --> 00:38:45.644 but what about 529 00:38:45.884 --> 00:38:50.364 rhythm that entrances people, whether it's a shaker or drumming? 530 00:38:50.899 --> 00:38:51.859 I've heard, 531 00:38:52.339 --> 00:38:55.459 you know, some spiritual teachers mention that the downbeat 532 00:38:55.539 --> 00:39:01.459 is kind of in line with God, but the upbeat and the syncopation is not. It's the opposite. 533 00:39:01.939 --> 00:39:06.814 So I'm I'm curious because especially when you listen to sort of trance 534 00:39:07.294 --> 00:39:14.654 shamanic shaking, that sort of thing, there is a lot of syncopation going on. Is that exercising demons? Is it shaking things up? What what's going on? 535 00:39:15.454 --> 00:39:16.094 So 536 00:39:16.574 --> 00:39:22.029 personally, I respond extremely well, and I've studied with with, a few teachers 537 00:39:22.029 --> 00:39:23.469 in Shabbat tradition 538 00:39:23.549 --> 00:39:27.549 who use just simple drum, you know, the round drum with drumming, 539 00:39:27.869 --> 00:39:32.795 to retrieve soul retrieval ceremonies and all of that. And so I studied that and 540 00:39:33.354 --> 00:39:40.555 I'm trained in, you know, the drumming of that level. Very, very simple, which is almost like a mimicking heartbeat. 541 00:39:40.714 --> 00:39:44.795 And I know that that works with a lot of people. That works really well. 542 00:39:45.274 --> 00:39:50.019 It works with me too. Yeah. I think I think a lot of people resonate with 543 00:39:50.659 --> 00:39:52.659 simple

shamanic drumming. 544 00:39:52.659 --> 00:39:55.859 And I think also young children resonate with it too, 545 00:39:56.259 --> 00:39:57.619 which is really interesting. 546 00:39:58.019 --> 00:40:00.659 And also animals resonate with it too. 547 00:40:01.394 --> 00:40:03.074 You know, so 548 00:40:03.394 --> 00:40:08.194 I can tell you just a little bit what I do in neuroscience with that. 549 00:40:08.994 --> 00:40:12.914 In order to create certain specific frequencies 550 00:40:13.074 --> 00:40:17.789 where you can, example, I'll just speak about my field, which is visually evolved potentials 551 00:40:17.949 --> 00:40:19.709 stimulating on the retina, 552 00:40:19.789 --> 00:40:23.069 where you obtain certain specific responses in your brain. 553 00:40:23.469 --> 00:40:24.829 And you can then 554 00:40:25.389 --> 00:40:26.349 use different 555 00:40:26.509 --> 00:40:32.514 programs or create different programs that have specific algorithms that can have different ratios of certain things. 556 00:40:32.834 --> 00:40:36.754 In my world of neurotech and neuroscience, it's all in algorithmic 557 00:40:36.754 --> 00:40:37.474 ratios. 558 00:40:38.194 --> 00:40:40.674 And that's where you get the best results. 559 00:40:41.074 --> 00:40:42.674 And the way that, for example, 560 00:40:43.299 --> 00:40:47.699 it's going back to the rhythm. There is such a thing that is called interstimulus 561 00:40:47.699 --> 00:40:48.499 interval. 562 00:40:48.899 --> 00:40:52.819 And it taps into the specific rhythm of how 563 00:40:53.139 --> 00:40:54.179 will you 564 00:40:54.419 --> 00:40:57.984 stimulate the retina, at what time, what tempo, 565 00:40:58.224 --> 00:41:04.224 and it has to be exact. It has to be exact in my world, in my programs, it's down to a millisecond. 566 00:41:04.944 --> 00:41:05.984 And so 567 00:41:06.144 --> 00:41:10.384 it not necessarily measures is in sync with your own heart, 568 00:41:10.864 --> 00:41:11.984 but what 569 00:41:12.169 --> 00:41:16.009 we did with my team, we assembled 1,700 570 00:41:16.009 --> 00:41:16.889 articles 571 00:41:17.129 --> 00:41:20.969 and gave it value and logged it into Excel spreadsheets 572 00:41:21.049 --> 00:41:23.129 and had different analysis 573 00:41:23.129 --> 00:41:26.409 of Anabas and Manamas to understand 574 00:41:26.409 --> 00:41:27.449 what are the overlays. 575 00:41:27.904 --> 00:41:28.944 The values 576 00:41:29.824 --> 00:41:33.184 that were inserted were those from these 1,700 577 00:41:33.184 --> 00:41:39.104 studies that are talking about specific value, be it intra stimulus interval, 578 00:41:39.104 --> 00:41:41.504 which means when will the stimulus appear, 579 00:41:42.169 --> 00:41:43.529 or frequency 580 00:41:43.529 --> 00:41:44.889 on the screen, 581 00:41:45.049 --> 00:41:50.489 which means how frequently will you have a checkerboard or a vertical line appear, 582 00:41:50.649 --> 00:41:52.409 or contrast sensitivity, 583 00:41:52.409 --> 00:41:58.464 which is another

value. For example, when you turn the light on or make the screen dimmer or lighter, 584 00:41:58.704 --> 00:42:02.384 that's you know a bit sharper, that depends on contrast sensitivity. 585 00:42:02.544 --> 00:42:07.264 So that translates in you then being able to selectively stimulate your retina. 586 00:42:08.464 --> 00:42:11.424 Which then translates into, because retina is 587 00:42:12.419 --> 00:42:14.739 mostly an organ in the body with 588 00:42:14.899 --> 00:42:16.499 dopaminergic receptors. 589 00:42:17.139 --> 00:42:21.459 So if you simulate that properly in a very specific rhythm, 590 00:42:22.499 --> 00:42:24.979 then you end up you kind of code 591 00:42:25.139 --> 00:42:27.059 the trans of your retina, 592 00:42:27.974 --> 00:42:30.214 which then codes the transmission 593 00:42:30.774 --> 00:42:31.974 of your dopamine. 594 00:42:32.054 --> 00:42:35.334 So you self induce hyperproduction of dopaminergic 595 00:42:35.414 --> 00:42:36.934 elements, dopamine, 596 00:42:37.094 --> 00:42:38.694 which then in turn also, 597 00:42:38.774 --> 00:42:40.054 if you have equal, 598 00:42:40.134 --> 00:42:41.734 you can equalize 599 00:42:42.289 --> 00:42:45.969 serotonin and dopamine in that way, but you also regulate 600 00:42:45.969 --> 00:42:47.489 the nervous vagus, 601 00:42:47.569 --> 00:42:49.729 because that's directly related. 602 00:42:49.969 --> 00:42:52.129 And when you regulate the nervous vagus, 603 00:42:52.129 --> 00:42:53.569 you shut 604 00:42:54.049 --> 00:42:59.264 down the amygdaloid response, which is fight fight reflex. So all of that happens at once. 605 00:42:59.584 --> 00:43:03.744 And what we have now noticed is that it also happens at the level of mitochondria. 606 00:43:04.064 --> 00:43:10.144 And I think it's the inner walls of mitochondria and it has to do with charge, ionic 607 00:43:10.144 --> 00:43:13.979 charges of different types. And again, all of that is very complex, 608 00:43:14.139 --> 00:43:17.179 results in very complex algorithms, 609 00:43:17.499 --> 00:43:20.379 and a lot of them are photovoltaic algorithms as well. 610 00:43:20.699 --> 00:43:22.939 So, in our case, we just transmit 611 00:43:23.614 --> 00:43:29.294 Nothing looks into you. There are no cameras, but you transmit everything from the reader, from the values 612 00:43:29.294 --> 00:43:32.815 of your own production of the brain. So you're co creating 613 00:43:33.054 --> 00:43:34.894 the program in real time. 614 00:43:35.679 --> 00:43:40.639 But that's why it's called Sensing. That's because it's smart, it's based out of crystalline 615 00:43:40.639 --> 00:43:45.519 components. It's a different type of chips and it's photovoltaic, based on photovoltaic energy. 616 00:43:45.919 --> 00:43:48.319 Why, in that respect, 617 00:43:48.559 --> 00:43:50.079 the rhythm is crucial. 618 00:43:51.844 --> 00:43:56.164 Probably one of the most important parts of the whole program is the rhythm. 619 00:43:57.284 --> 00:44:02.324 And so I find it fascinating because when you listen to Indian music or to African music, 620 00:44:03.539 --> 00:44:07.299 you know, for different instruments, African instruments, 621 00:44:07.459 --> 00:44:07.859 or, 622 00:44:08.579 --> 00:44:10.179 you know, just some 623 00:44:10.179 --> 00:44:12.579 beautiful, beautiful performers in 624 00:44:12.979 --> 00:44:17.139 Mid Africa that is really in Central Africa that are just incredible. 625 00:44:17.619 --> 00:44:20.744 And I think that their authenticity 626 00:44:21.144 --> 00:44:24.744 relies on the fact that they instinctively, 627 00:44:24.744 --> 00:44:25.784 intuitively, 628 00:44:25.944 --> 00:44:32.904 they know how to tap the rhythm of their own heart. Now that doesn't mean that it's the rhythm for your heart, my heart, or other people's, 629 00:44:33.329 --> 00:44:36.369 but you can actually have a common denominator. 630 00:44:36.769 --> 00:44:41.329 And just like, you know, majority of people like the riff of, I don't know, Miles Davis, 631 00:44:41.649 --> 00:44:44.849 or the majority of people resonate with Ravi Shankar, 632 00:44:45.009 --> 00:44:45.969 or, you know, 633 00:44:47.169 --> 00:44:47.969 George Harrison. 634 00:44:48.344 --> 00:44:50.824 You know, when when he's authentic, he's authentic. 635 00:44:51.144 --> 00:44:54.664 You know? So or even what is the difference between Rostropovich 636 00:44:54.664 --> 00:45:01.624 playing, you know, the cello or Yo Yo Ma? You know? My personal child, you know, when she was very little, 637 00:45:01.944 --> 00:45:06.549 she was six months old, I would put her in front of the same piece of music, 638 00:45:07.109 --> 00:45:10.789 but played by Rastropoich or played by Yojima. 639 00:45:11.509 --> 00:45:14.709 She could not sustain Yojima, but she would stay in trance 640 00:45:15.234 --> 00:45:16.674 for like hours 641 00:45:16.674 --> 00:45:21.474 in front of the music played by a good high quality musician, you know. 642 00:45:22.194 --> 00:45:26.834 And so I think that, and this is a baby, this is like a new, you know, almost newborn baby. 643 00:45:27.249 --> 00:45:30.929 And I found that also with my dogs and with animals. 644 00:45:31.009 --> 00:45:34.849 Forces have that kind of thing. So there is something about the rhythm 645 00:45:35.729 --> 00:45:41.774 that is resonating with the planets. And that's another thing I'm really interested in understanding. 646 00:45:42.174 --> 00:45:43.374 How does that 647 00:45:43.534 --> 00:45:45.614 tap into these vertices 648 00:45:46.094 --> 00:45:48.174 of, you know, mathematical 649 00:45:48.174 --> 00:45:50.974 composition of fractals? 650 00:45:51.294 --> 00:45:57.389 Because I think once you have that aligned, I just had a conversation with with my good friend, Doctor. Todd, 651 00:45:59.149 --> 00:46:00.669 he's an anesthesiologist, 652 00:46:00.669 --> 00:46:05.469 but also very, very educated and like his specialty is seeking 653 00:46:06.189 --> 00:46:06.829 fractals, 654 00:46:07.404

--> 00:46:08.924 you know. And so 655 00:46:08.924 --> 00:46:11.804 I think it's really interesting when you have, 656 00:46:12.364 --> 00:46:15.244 I think the alignment of your inner world, 657 00:46:15.324 --> 00:46:18.204 you know, when we say we're in alignment, 658 00:46:18.444 --> 00:46:21.079 is probably referring to this unusual 659 00:46:21.079 --> 00:46:22.439 alignment of, you 660 00:46:22.839 --> 00:46:25.079 know, the macro to macro, 661 00:46:25.479 --> 00:46:26.439 you know, the 662 00:46:27.319 --> 00:46:30.679 full algorithm of the universe, of the cosmos, 663 00:46:30.999 --> 00:46:33.879 versus the micro elements in your 664 00:46:34.439 --> 00:46:34.759 blood. 665 00:46:35.634 --> 00:46:36.434 You know? 666 00:46:37.554 --> 00:46:50.034 It's so interesting. Too far out. This is great. No. This is so great. And I'm gonna stick with the music thing because it's top of mind for me. I just played a show last night, but before that, went to go see one of my favorite bands in Austin called the Greyhounds. 667 00:46:50.274 --> 00:46:52.969 And they are just like the funkiest 668 00:46:53.129 --> 00:46:54.889 groove imaginable. 669 00:46:54.969 --> 00:46:58.169 That doesn't always translate. Like, I've I like their albums, 670 00:46:58.329 --> 00:47:00.489 but I don't absolutely love them. 671 00:47:01.049 --> 00:47:20.234 Going to see them live, it is different every time, even if they're playing the same song. And the timing is, I was talking about it with my wife because she's not like a trained musician like I am. I'm super geek about all of this, but like the true mastery is when someone can play or sing behind the beat and it just lands 672 00:47:20.314 --> 00:47:20.874 perfectly. 673 00:47:21.399 --> 00:47:23.559 And it is mathematical, 674 00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:25.879 but not perfectly mathematical. 675 00:47:25.879 --> 00:47:29.239 It's different every time. Right? And it's those micro 676 00:47:29.399 --> 00:47:36.439 kind of adjustments to each other as members of the band make little hesitations or little adjustments that really 677 00:47:36.734 --> 00:47:48.014 makes it hit, doesn't it? It's it's I just don't see AI ever being able to do that. Maybe it could, you know, entrain someone into a groove or something like that, but it's just not the same as those micro adjustments. 678 00:47:48.909 --> 00:47:51.309 Doesn't always sound a little plastic 679 00:47:51.789 --> 00:47:54.349 to use a pedestrian word? 680 00:47:54.669 --> 00:47:58.189 Know, it's almost like looking at something through plexiglass. 681 00:47:58.669 --> 00:48:00.589 There is no consciousness. There is no soul. 682 00:48:01.074 --> 00:48:03.474 And I don't think that AI will ever 683 00:48:04.114 --> 00:48:05.634 you know, the transhumanism 684 00:48:05.634 --> 00:48:15.554 movement tries tries to there's so many proponents of it, you know, Elon Musk and and Kurzweil and all of these, and they want to, you know, create a transhuman forever. 685 00:48:16.139 --> 00:48:19.660 I don't believe in any of that. I think our 686 00:48:19.979 --> 00:48:21.259 sacred humanity 687 00:48:21.259 --> 00:48:23.420 and our sacred heart is really 688 00:48:23.739 --> 00:48:29.499 incredibly important. It's God given, you know, and it's so important. So AI will never, 689 00:48:30.264 --> 00:48:36.664 you know Jimmy Page wrote something very beautiful on Instagram and on TikTok and on X. 690 00:48:36.984 --> 00:48:38.104 That was when, 691 00:48:38.904 --> 00:48:40.744 it was about three months ago. 692 00:48:41.384 --> 00:48:45.749 He was saying how AI is stealing now, you know, music and 693 00:48:45.909 --> 00:48:48.869 blatantly stealing it from musicians. 694 00:48:49.669 --> 00:48:53.989 How there should be laws, should be rules and regulations about plagiarism, 695 00:48:54.069 --> 00:48:56.629 and somebody should be brought to court about that. 696 00:48:57.604 --> 00:49:03.524 And he said, you know, there is, as a young musician, when I was young, he was saying I would be 697 00:49:03.844 --> 00:49:05.124 hired to be in 698 00:49:05.844 --> 00:49:07.285 a studio in London, 699 00:49:07.684 --> 00:49:13.239 and I would be, you know, staying there for like hours, for sometimes twenty four hours, 700 00:49:14.119 --> 00:49:18.279 plucking on my guitar and finding the right tune until it came out. 701 00:49:18.999 --> 00:49:21.319 Know, and it's this quintessential 702 00:49:21.799 --> 00:49:24.999 essence of his soul merging with his instrument, 703 00:49:25.314 --> 00:49:27.154 merging with that moment 704 00:49:27.394 --> 00:49:30.034 that would produce something beautiful. 705 00:49:30.434 --> 00:49:38.274 And it didn't come all at once, it didn't come for free, it didn't come scraping from some other people's music, it came from 706 00:49:38.619 --> 00:49:40.219 God, from cosmos, 707 00:49:40.539 --> 00:49:42.699 into his heart, into his capacity, 708 00:49:42.939 --> 00:49:46.139 and into his also training. I mean, these people train 709 00:49:46.459 --> 00:49:49.579 their lifetime for it, so they should be honorable. 710 00:49:49.659 --> 00:49:53.499 And so he said, well, the AI will never have that capacity, 711 00:49:54.194 --> 00:49:55.314 but what 712 00:49:55.554 --> 00:49:59.554 we should be putting it as a real label to it is plagiarism. 713 00:50:00.194 --> 00:50:01.874 So he called 714 00:50:02.034 --> 00:50:02.754 upon 715 00:50:02.994 --> 00:50:06.754 everybody who read that to actually have a petition 716 00:50:06.899 --> 00:50:11.219 to stop the plagiarism of AI against real musicians. 717 00:50:12.179 --> 00:50:18.819 Yeah, because it goes way beyond music. It goes to all the books that we've read and podcasts we've put out and all of that. That would be 718 00:50:19.344 --> 00:50:21.904 finding good if it were attributed. 719 00:50:21.904 --> 00:50:39.289 And then there were some, even if it's just micro sense, like that are streamed, like Spotify was supposed to pay musicians

or something like that. Like that technology exists. We could make that happen, but instead they're just kind of taking it all for themselves and messing it up as they go. So it's like people are reading my bio, 720 00:50:39.929 --> 00:50:44.409 reading about schools that I never went to, like, and just 721 00:50:44.489 --> 00:50:47.024 making up stuff. If it's 99% 722 00:50:47.024 --> 00:50:51.104 true, but 1% not, it's, it's like, that's a big problem 723 00:50:51.264 --> 00:50:53.904 because if the rhythm were 99% 724 00:50:53.904 --> 00:50:59.264 correct and 1% wrong that I was just talking about, that would not work. It needs to be those micro 725 00:50:59.264 --> 00:51:02.719 adjustments for it land. And that kind of reminds me too, 726 00:51:03.119 --> 00:51:07.599 birdsong. I studied that as an undergrad and it's very mathematical, 727 00:51:07.599 --> 00:51:14.734 but also not perfect. They have absolute pitch. Humans have relative pitch, especially in the Western world. But with birdsong, 728 00:51:14.974 --> 00:51:22.174 that is definitely something that can just snap you right into a memory or a trance. You know, if you're listening to a chorus of cicadas, 729 00:51:22.574 --> 00:51:27.454 you definitely go into a whole different frequency. And my wife and I had an incredible experience 730 00:51:27.609 --> 00:51:37.609 when we were in the Badlands a few years ago in our truck, and we were just kind of driving slowly, there was a herd of bison that suddenly kind of, like, came up behind us and surrounded us and 731 00:51:37.849 --> 00:51:44.344 started bellowing, like, all at once and kind of stopping there. Not agitated or anything, just being bison. You know, the male 732 00:51:44.584 --> 00:51:49.784 was right next to us, a whole bunch of them, they're bossing each other around, and it was wild. 733 00:51:49.784 --> 00:51:52.904 When they made those sounds, you could feel it in your chest. 734 00:51:53.509 --> 00:51:56.309 And it kind of made me long for a forgotten 735 00:51:56.549 --> 00:51:57.670 time when 736 00:51:57.749 --> 00:52:01.349 you could experience something like that. It was a it was a true spiritual 737 00:52:01.349 --> 00:52:02.309 moment. And, 738 00:52:03.109 --> 00:52:17.724 so sound can be an incredibly powerful force to help people reconnect with nature. But let's talk a little bit more about the light side of things because people I mean, the implications of this are incredible that you can help people recover from concussion and brain injury 739 00:52:18.444 --> 00:52:19.724 through reprogramming 740 00:52:19.724 --> 00:52:34.839 your retinas. Like, it's that your eyes are an avenue to reprogram your brain, your nervous system, and your spirit, and you can actually use technology for good to help you achieve that too. It doesn't have to be a race to the bottom, you know, transhumanist agenda. No. 741 00:52:35.684 --> 00:52:36.404 No. 742 00:52:37.684 --> 00:52:45.044 It's a but also you can use the it's a similar program with auditory evoked potentials. You can have specific 743 00:52:45.284 --> 00:52:46.164 sounds 744 00:52:46.164 --> 00:52:50.084 that also impact specific area of temporal lobes 745 00:52:50.429 --> 00:52:51.069 and 746 00:52:51.229 --> 00:52:55.950 create certain harmonies and frequencies that can also heal. Music is medicine. 747 00:52:56.189 --> 00:52:56.829 So 748 00:52:56.989 --> 00:52:58.749 personally, was just studying 749 00:52:59.229 --> 00:53:02.269 I'm also schooled in auditory evoked potentials, 750 00:53:02.349 --> 00:53:05.469 but most of my work was in visual evoked potentials 751 00:53:05.804 --> 00:53:09.324 and brain mapping. So it's always the same principle. 752 00:53:09.324 --> 00:53:11.244 It's always a binary code. 753 00:53:11.404 --> 00:53:14.844 You know, you stimulate something with certain specific stimulation 754 00:53:15.004 --> 00:53:15.884 and you 755 00:53:17.004 --> 00:53:19.244 obtain the evoked 756 00:53:19.244 --> 00:53:19.804 potential. 757 00:53:20.379 --> 00:53:23.339 The potential is in the neurons that spike 758 00:53:23.339 --> 00:53:24.779 in a certain fashion. 759 00:53:25.259 --> 00:53:29.099 And then you need to know how to stimulate them properly 760 00:53:29.339 --> 00:53:33.274 so that you can actually get that flow of that specific 761 00:53:33.434 --> 00:53:34.394 microelement, 762 00:53:34.394 --> 00:53:36.234 whether it's dopamine, serotonin, 763 00:53:36.314 --> 00:53:38.474 or other neurotransmitters, 764 00:53:38.474 --> 00:53:43.274 you can play around with it. I think that what's fascinating about dopamine, 765 00:53:43.274 --> 00:53:43.994 if you 766 00:53:44.394 --> 00:53:46.954 find the right flow of the dopamine that is exact, 767 00:53:47.849 --> 00:53:49.209 you can induce 768 00:53:50.569 --> 00:53:52.329 the production of BDNF, 769 00:53:52.329 --> 00:53:54.329 brain derived neurotropic factor, 770 00:53:54.409 --> 00:53:57.769 and then you can create the production of connection 771 00:53:58.329 --> 00:54:00.729 of new neurons, like dendritic connections. 772 00:54:01.094 --> 00:54:04.294 And after about a while, you find 773 00:54:04.294 --> 00:54:06.614 ways of they create 774 00:54:06.614 --> 00:54:08.614 so many more new pathways. 775 00:54:08.694 --> 00:54:10.854 They end up even producing 776 00:54:10.934 --> 00:54:12.214 new stem cells. 777 00:54:12.534 --> 00:54:14.214 That's my new study now. 778 00:54:14.614 --> 00:54:15.254 A new 779 00:54:15.569 --> 00:54:17.809 study where I just designed and 780 00:54:19.329 --> 00:54:20.769 we're basically 781 00:54:21.169 --> 00:54:23.969 showing that we're making new neurons 782 00:54:24.049 --> 00:54:26.049 and stem cells via thought. 783 00:54:26.529 --> 00:54:30.209 So it's kind of a holy grail, but essentially 784 00:54:30.494 --> 00:54:32.174 it's not so 785 00:54:32.494 --> 00:54:34.974 strenuous. You know, it's not so difficult 786 00:54:35.374 --> 00:54:36.894 because you selectively 787 00:54:36.894 -->

00:54:42.334 stimulate the retina and you can do that also by selective stimulation of the audio of 788 00:54:43.054 --> 00:54:45.649 your auditory nerve as well. 789 00:54:46.209 --> 00:54:46.689 You 790 00:54:47.969 --> 00:54:54.529 probably experienced that when you play the guitar or when you play your instruments and you go into almost trance and you lose 791 00:54:55.009 --> 00:54:56.609 many, many hours in that. 792 00:54:57.524 --> 00:54:58.244 Many 793 00:54:58.724 --> 00:54:59.444 natives, 794 00:54:59.604 --> 00:55:01.924 they heal through music, through sound. 795 00:55:02.164 --> 00:55:09.684 And we're now finally discovering it. You know, sound ball healings and gong healings especially can be extremely powerful if you know what you're doing. 796 00:55:10.489 --> 00:55:14.009 You know, and Tibetans have known that forever, or 797 00:55:15.209 --> 00:55:17.849 African or Native Americans have known that forever. 798 00:55:18.009 --> 00:55:23.209 We're just going back home to that. We're just remembering that. And that remembering is priceless. 799 00:55:23.844 --> 00:55:26.084 It's not as esoteric 800 00:55:26.084 --> 00:55:27.604 as it sounds, 801 00:55:28.004 --> 00:55:30.484 you know, to stimulate the retina with specific. 802 00:55:30.564 --> 00:55:32.484 And in 1990, 803 00:55:32.484 --> 00:55:40.459 I wrote a paper, I was a kid, I was just studying at Mount Sinai. I came from Italy to Mount Sinai to do research on dopamine, 804 00:55:40.859 --> 00:55:43.579 but I was also doing research on consciousness. 805 00:55:44.299 --> 00:55:48.779 And so we published a paper on what was called N70, 806 00:55:48.939 --> 00:55:50.779 negative evoked potential 807 00:55:51.224 --> 00:55:51.864 spike 808 00:55:52.024 --> 00:55:57.704 that we discovered that was a small wave of negative wave that happens 809 00:55:57.704 --> 00:55:58.504 before 810 00:55:58.984 --> 00:56:01.384 you actually exercise the stimulus. 811 00:56:02.104 --> 00:56:03.304 The precautious 812 00:56:04.049 --> 00:56:04.849 recording. 813 00:56:04.849 --> 00:56:07.489 And nobody in the world has done that before. 814 00:56:07.889 --> 00:56:10.529 Know, it's like because we were questioning what happens 815 00:56:11.569 --> 00:56:12.689 in the brain 816 00:56:12.929 --> 00:56:13.649 and 817 00:56:13.729 --> 00:56:15.729 how do we do that? We generated 818 00:56:16.104 --> 00:56:22.344 a bunch of stimuli on the screen, black and white, in specific contrast sensitivity and specific frequency. 819 00:56:22.664 --> 00:56:24.424 And in the rhythm, 820 00:56:24.824 --> 00:56:26.744 we tested many different rhythms, 821 00:56:26.824 --> 00:56:31.864 let's say 10 categories of rhythms, 10 categories of contrast sensitivity, and then light 822 00:56:32.319 --> 00:56:33.119 intensity 823 00:56:33.119 --> 00:56:38.239 and other things. And we stimulate, we put people in front of them, you know, contraption, 824 00:56:38.239 --> 00:56:41.439 you have to put your chin somewhere so you're literally 825 00:56:41.439 --> 00:56:44.799 looking at the retina, or hemiretina, half retina. 826 00:56:45.204 --> 00:56:47.124 And we did that with both 827 00:56:47.124 --> 00:56:48.724 humans, ourselves, 828 00:56:48.964 --> 00:56:50.964 patients and monkeys 829 00:56:51.044 --> 00:56:52.324 and cats. 830 00:56:52.884 --> 00:57:06.139 And we recorded and Evoked Potentials, what happens? In all the species, across the species, we found out that at certain point before the stimulus was happening, that N70 would appear. So the brain was recognizing 831 00:57:06.539 --> 00:57:09.419 something else. And I think it's coming from the biofuel. 832 00:57:09.579 --> 00:57:14.334 And at that time I did not know anything about it, but right now it's retrospectively 833 00:57:14.334 --> 00:57:18.174 thinking about it. I think it's coming from, you know, we're sensing, 834 00:57:18.494 --> 00:57:20.974 we're toroidal fields more than we are 835 00:57:21.294 --> 00:57:22.014 this 836 00:57:22.094 --> 00:57:22.894 tangible 837 00:57:22.894 --> 00:57:24.094 skin and 838 00:57:24.334 --> 00:57:26.094 retinas and eyes, you know? 839 00:57:27.149 --> 00:57:29.149 So does that make sense to you? 840 00:57:29.549 --> 00:57:31.069 Did I answer your question? 841 00:57:31.469 --> 00:57:35.709 Definitely. And one other piece that I'd love to touch on is that you bring 842 00:57:36.349 --> 00:57:44.344 fun and play to healing. And, you know, Western medicine largely has been so sanitized and kind of like over professionalized 843 00:57:44.344 --> 00:57:51.304 and there's just no space for fun or even connecting with people as humans really. Just kind of shuffling bodies through the system. 844 00:57:51.784 --> 00:57:54.584 So it's really important to kind of have that other 845 00:57:54.904 --> 00:58:03.759 side. Maybe you could just speak a little bit about that. Like, how can we humanize healing more and why is it so important that we actually enjoy ourselves 846 00:58:03.999 --> 00:58:05.279 as we do this? And specifically, 847 00:58:05.679 --> 00:58:07.999 would love to hear more about your work kind of like applying 848 00:58:08.799 --> 00:58:09.599 video 849 00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:10.719 game principles 850 00:58:10.719 --> 00:58:12.319 to a healing practice. 851 00:58:13.074 --> 00:58:22.274 I worked a lot with children in New York City. I had a clinic and my specialty was not only work potentials, but also neuropsychology. 852 00:58:22.274 --> 00:58:24.674 I had different fields that I was covering 853 00:58:24.834 --> 00:58:25.554 and 854 00:58:26.034 --> 00:58:29.099 mostly worked with children who had issues. 855 00:58:30.859 --> 00:58:31.660 Mostly 856 00:58:32.059 --> 00:58:34.619 differential diagnosis of difficult situations. 857 00:58:35.819 --> 00:58:40.539 The child has a problem in school, cannot learn or cannot sleep or has 858 00:58:40.619 --> 00:58:44.994 panic attacks. Where does that stem from? What do you do with that? 859 00:58:45.314

--> 00:58:45.954 So 860 00:58:46.354 --> 00:58:47.314 with children, 861 00:58:47.714 --> 00:58:48.754 you have to play. 862 00:58:49.154 --> 00:58:53.954 There's no, you know, you can't be in a white coat and, you know, 863 00:58:54.274 --> 00:58:58.434 look at them and then, you know, learn something, if you want specific 864 00:58:58.434 --> 00:59:01.339 results, if you want authentic true result. 865 00:59:01.819 --> 00:59:02.379 So 866 00:59:02.699 --> 00:59:06.779 my style of testing was always, you know, get down on the floor, 867 00:59:07.499 --> 00:59:13.404 three minutes of Lego building or car playing or whatever you play with, you know, depending on the age. 868 00:59:13.804 --> 00:59:15.644 And then you insert 869 00:59:15.644 --> 00:59:17.325 some testing into it. 870 00:59:17.644 --> 00:59:23.644 And then you get, you know, I learned to literally memorize their scores and then put them when they were away, 871 00:59:23.804 --> 00:59:30.649 you know, write them down. Or I would record a session, you know, so they could transcribe it later in order not to disrupt the play 872 00:59:30.969 --> 00:59:34.649 and in order to be more authentic. Because if you're a scared child, 873 00:59:35.369 --> 00:59:37.769 then the testing is invalid at the end. 874 00:59:38.329 --> 00:59:42.249 Because you can say, well, here's his IQ. So many times I've gotten children's 875 00:59:42.904 --> 00:59:45.464 data, you know, his IQ is slow. 876 00:59:45.544 --> 00:59:46.344 And what 877 00:59:46.504 --> 00:59:50.184 happened is that the boy was just scared of the testing and he couldn't do much. 878 00:59:50.904 --> 00:59:56.104 And so they clam up. So because of that, I thought that, you know, 879 00:59:56.829 --> 01:00:07.149 it's natural to be playful. So playing around with things that we can do is really important, because it brings you to a heart level and authenticity. 880 01:00:07.709 --> 01:00:08.749 And it's 881 01:00:08.989 --> 01:00:20.094 so the not so playful part of my system is the headset, no? And the fact that you can put it on, you can put it like that, on the the head in like one second 882 01:00:20.254 --> 01:00:24.014 and you don't have to glue your electrodes on for like hours. 883 01:00:24.699 --> 01:00:28.939 And that's an innovation that has not been around for a long time, 884 01:00:29.179 --> 01:00:41.844 but it took me with my team, probably in 12 teams of engineers, took us maybe six years to create all of that and many millions of dollars, you know. And then you combine that with chips and then the algorithms, 885 01:00:42.564 --> 01:00:44.964 and then you create video games. And so, 886 01:00:45.524 --> 01:00:48.804 neuro games that we create, neuro programs that we create, 887 01:00:49.044 --> 01:00:51.364 are very specific. They're very, very complex. 888 01:00:51.939 --> 01:00:54.419 And so it's definitely not neurofeedback. 889 01:00:54.739 --> 01:00:58.419 But it presents in such a way that it's accessible. 890 01:00:58.659 --> 01:01:04.339 My goal was just to create something that was very nice for a child who is maybe two years old and autistic, 891 01:01:05.164 --> 01:01:06.124 or an 892 01:01:06.604 --> 01:01:07.884 adult who is maybe 893 01:01:08.284 --> 01:01:09.724 90 and demented, 894 01:01:09.884 --> 01:01:14.764 or 80. And in both cases it has to work. So it was a very high 895 01:01:15.724 --> 01:01:17.324 high bar that we 896 01:01:17.324 --> 01:01:19.639 posed to ourselves, but we achieved 897 01:01:20.199 --> 01:01:22.359 the goal. You know, we published 898 01:01:22.679 --> 01:01:26.599 in Nature, we're going to publish now, I'm working with NIMH now, 899 01:01:26.999 --> 01:01:29.399 with, you know, different levels of 900 01:01:29.959 --> 01:01:32.679 My team is really good, you know, people are really intelligent 901 01:01:32.759 --> 01:01:35.444 and it's really great. And then for 902 01:01:35.444 --> 01:01:39.204 the gaming part, not the gaming, but the neuro program part, 903 01:01:39.444 --> 01:01:40.484 I hired 904 01:01:40.484 --> 01:01:43.844 a few people who create games for Nintendo. 905 01:01:44.244 --> 01:01:48.164 So they're really specialists in creating proper games. 906 01:01:48.484 --> 01:01:57.339 And some are from Columbia University. You know, they're architects, but they also do some different games. So we have several only three games are finished, 907 01:01:57.579 --> 01:02:02.779 and we have about nine that that are now in the process. I'm building an app now that will be out, 908 01:02:03.099 --> 01:02:13.124 hopefully, for everybody. But what happens is that with that kind of going into the flow, you create a state of in the flow, just like when you riff and you're happy with your band. 909 01:02:13.524 --> 01:02:15.604 That kind of in the flow state 910 01:02:15.844 --> 01:02:19.364 makes you forget the limitations of your body or your mind. 911 01:02:20.499 --> 01:02:26.179 So it allows you for rerouting your brain, rerouting your body, rerouting your knowledge, 912 01:02:26.499 --> 01:02:31.059 and seeing yourself as a better person than you were. As a result, our training 913 01:02:31.299 --> 01:02:33.059 brings people to have higher IQ, 914 01:02:33.774 --> 01:02:34.654 or if 915 01:02:34.814 --> 01:02:35.374 they 916 01:02:35.774 --> 01:02:39.214 have concussionpost concussion syndrome, they don't have it anymore. 917 01:02:39.294 --> 01:02:42.174 Or they are able to perform better or 918 01:02:42.254 --> 01:02:43.294 think better. 919 01:02:43.534 --> 01:02:49.989 More focusing happens, ADHD is gone. In many cases PTSD goes away like really quickly, 920 01:02:50.149 --> 01:02:54.389 or anxiety and depression go away very quickly. So there's a lot of applications 921 01:02:54.629 --> 01:03:00.149 that one can have with that. But again, it has to be done principally, I think mainly 922 01:03:00.584 --> 01:03:06.984 the game aspect, the playful aspect of that was designed so that people actually would relax

923 01:03:07.224 --> 01:03:09.224 and get in the state of flow. 924 01:03:10.504 --> 01:03:11.144 Yeah. 925 01:03:11.544 --> 01:03:32.074 And it's really remarkable what you've been able to achieve with that. I'll just comment on that from personal experience because I just went through post concussion syndrome after a nasty car accident last June in a hit and run. I was knocked out and really injured my spine and shoulder and knee and all sorts of parts of my body needed to be rehabbed. 926 01:03:32.314 --> 01:03:44.074 Many, many dozens of appointments and vestibular therapy, speech therapy. And so I'm I'm fresh on the other end of that with lots of other symptoms too in terms of mood and not being able to really 927 01:03:44.819 --> 01:03:47.459 get out of the funk that I was in. So I just want to 928 01:03:47.779 --> 01:03:59.459 be a testament to the fact that humans really can recover the nervous system, the brain, the body if you put in the work and apply the right sort of stimulus. I know music was an absolute monster 929 01:03:59.844 --> 01:04:09.284 improvement for me once I was able to start playing again and I was healed up a little bit because, you know, I just read a few articles about this that the essentially what you said that 930 01:04:09.444 --> 01:04:10.404 the human 931 01:04:10.644 --> 01:04:11.844 brain or body 932 01:04:12.549 --> 01:04:15.669 and consciousness doesn't have space to feel pain 933 01:04:15.909 --> 01:04:35.954 when you're in flow. And I've definitely experienced that, though I had several herniated discs, torn tendons and ligaments and all that stuff and a blown out knee. It's like when I was playing, whether piano or singing or playing guitar, like, you know, I was really in it, I couldn't feel any pain. And what's interesting about that too is that it would definitely ratchet down the level of pain 934 01:04:36.194 --> 01:05:08.504 kind of for the rest of the day or the rest of the night. Like, it wouldn't completely go away. It would come back when I stopped playing, but I'm I'm so glad that I kind of went through that rehab and it makes me think that other people, no matter where they are, there's there's a way to get better and tune up your skills and tune up your reflexes and all that. Like, my ability to be in front of lights for recording this or or at shows was really it it bugged me out. It put me back on my heels for a long time. But after going through some of this, it's helped so much. So I can't imagine how much your sorts of interventions and therapies could 935 01:05:09.129 --> 01:05:13.049 help people who are struggling with the same sort of thing or me, hopefully, when 936 01:05:14.329 --> 01:05:19.529 I try it out. Yeah, I also combine it with a lot of, you know, supplements, 937 01:05:19.529 --> 01:05:22.569 specific supplements, specific lifestyle change, 938 01:05:23.004 --> 01:05:28.524 you know, people get better, but then they have to go home and they have to really stick to lifestyle change, 939 01:05:28.844 --> 01:05:29.964 you know, maybe 940 01:05:30.364 --> 01:05:32.364 specific things, everybody's different. 941 01:05:32.604 --> 01:05:33.564 And I don't, 942 01:05:33.884 --> 01:05:37.564 my training is not cookie cutter, you know, it's like really, 943 01:05:38.079 --> 01:05:41.440 it's tailored to person, you know, so we're all unique. 944 01:05:41.759 --> 01:05:47.759 And I think it's really important to be, but what's nice is when you work with like your creatives, 945 01:05:47.839 --> 01:05:51.304 it's beautiful to see how much more they can 946 01:05:52.104 --> 01:05:55.064 attinge to, you know, go to the next level. 947 01:05:55.384 --> 01:05:56.904 And their voices change, 948 01:05:56.984 --> 01:06:02.584 their capacity to play different instruments at the same time or different riffs at the same time. 949 01:06:03.304 --> 01:06:04.504 It's just a brain expanse. 950 01:06:05.869 --> 01:06:08.189 So I'd be honored to play 951 01:06:08.349 --> 01:06:08.909 around. 952 01:06:09.629 --> 01:06:13.069 Right on. Yeah, let's jam. Well, Doctor. Lana, so 953 01:06:13.069 --> 01:06:21.154 great to talk to you. I would love to talk to you some more and invite you back on. But in the meantime, what is the best place for the listeners to find you and your work? Oh, thank you. 954 01:06:21.474 --> 01:06:23.474 Thinkinterfaces.com 955 01:06:23.874 --> 01:06:29.154 and there is a button to, you know, get in contact with us or 956 01:06:29.234 --> 01:06:32.114 doctor morrowthiimthinkinterfaces 957 01:06:32.114 --> 01:06:32.674 dot com. 958 01:06:33.509 --> 01:06:39.429 And that's a very maybe you can send a link then later on and connect it to your episode. 959 01:06:39.429 --> 01:06:43.829 But that's basically the best way of doing it on Instagram. I'm 960 01:06:44.469 --> 01:06:46.709 doctor lana morrow and 961 01:06:47.484 --> 01:06:50.444 you can send me a DM, and that's 962 01:06:50.444 --> 01:06:51.484 very easy. 963 01:06:51.644 --> 01:06:55.564 We're at the Hive and Well, you know, the wellness center here in Austin, 964 01:06:56.444 --> 01:07:00.764 in Bee Cave, and it's quite a beautiful, beautiful center. 965 01:07:01.084 --> 01:07:09.479 And I just have my clinic there, but there are many, many other practitioners and wellness experts who are 966 01:07:10.119 --> 01:07:11.959 incredibly beautiful. So 967 01:07:12.759 --> 01:07:15.159 shout out to Alive and Well. It's a great place. 968 01:07:15.774 --> 01:07:26.494 Amazing. Yes. Even if you don't live in Austin, it's a great place to come hang out and heal or just kick out, kick back for a little bit with some good people. So come hang out with all of us and come see Doctor. Lana too. 969 01:07:27.949 --> 01:07:31.309 Thank you for having me, and thank you for all your good audience. 970 01:07:36.429 --> 01:07:52.234 Hey. Abel here one more time. And if you believe in our mission to create a world where health is the norm, not sickness, here are a few things you can do to help keep this show coming your way. Click like, subscribe, and leave a quick review wherever you listen to or watch your podcasts. 971 01:07:52.474 --> 01:09:26.397 You can also subscribe to my new Substack channel for an ad free version of this show in video and audio. That's at abeljames.substack.com. 972 01:09:26.477 --> 01:09:44.182 You can also find me on Twitter or X, YouTube, as well as Fountain FM, where you can leave a little crypto in the tip jar. And if you can think of someone you care about who might learn from or enjoy this show, please take a quick moment to share it with them. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode.