התמלול המלא של 45 Forward #6 - Retirement Revised: Social Insurance and Retirement Planning

Retirement Revised, comes from, 69 00:03:37.830 --> 00:03:42.009 the whole idea of revising or rethinking retirement. But it's 70 00:03:42.430 --> 00:03:45.689 kind of expanded quite a bit from there into the 71 00:03:45.870 --> 00:03:49.460 more of the sort of the personal finance dimensions and 72 00:03:49.819 --> 00:03:52.800 as we'll discuss coverage of programs like Social Security and 73 00:03:52.819 --> 00:03:56.099 Medicare and the like. So a more kind of holistic view. 74 00:03:56.159 --> 00:03:59.139 But that was how I sort of first just stumbled 75 00:03:59.199 --> 00:04:01.159 into it. Like a lot of ideas is sort of 76 00:04:01.250 --> 00:04:04.469 based on a personal observation that then you sort of 77 00:04:04.509 --> 00:04:07.569 test it as a marketplace idea. The funny thing about 78 00:04:07.610 --> 00:04:10.990 it was that after sort of the, let's say the 79 00:04:11.050 --> 00:04:14.030 editorial idea occurred to me and I went off to 80 00:04:14.090 --> 00:04:16.649 sort of do the research for what the business case 81 00:04:16.689 --> 00:04:19.899 was for launching a magazine. I was sort of stunned 82 00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:22.540 to see what a, what a good business idea was because, 83 00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:26.339 you know, we were looking at pretty rapid aging of 84 00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:29.660 the country and, you know, that the baby boom age 85 00:04:29.699 --> 00:04:32.060 wave was just beginning at the time, but I could 86 00:04:32.100 --> 00:04:34.680 see that there was a good 20 to 30 year 87 00:04:34.740 --> 00:04:38.500 ramp of, of, of people moving into this life transition 88 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:41.500 who were going to, and like any life transition, when 89 00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:43.949 you make them, there's an information need, you know, whatever 90 00:04:43.990 --> 00:04:47.029 that is, whether it's, you know, going off to college 91 00:04:47.050 --> 00:04:49.689 or looking for your first job, buying a home, getting married, 92 00:04:49.709 --> 00:04:52.730 you name it, these sort of having children, all these 93 00:04:52.769 --> 00:04:55.930 sort of light transitions, there's an information need to fill 94 00:04:55.970 --> 00:04:58.970 because people are doing something that they haven't done before. 95 00:04:59.029 --> 00:05:00.649 So that was really the genesis. 96 00:05:00.670 --> 00:05:04.370 Yeah, that's great. That's great. Yeah, I'm totally on board 97 00:05:04.410 --> 00:05:07.629 with you. I mean, I think that certainly you can 98 00:05:07.689 --> 00:05:12.040 see the age wave is inexorable and it's not a 99 00:05:13.060 --> 00:05:14.579 It's not really a, you know, a pig in a 100 00:05:14.620 --> 00:05:18.290 Python sense of, you know, baby boomers moving through. It's like, well, 101 00:05:18.439 --> 00:05:21.170 baby boomers move through and then Gen Xers on top 102 00:05:21.189 --> 00:05:23.870 of them. And then, you know, millennials after them and 103 00:05:23.970 --> 00:05:26.189 Gen Z, and it's just going to keep going and going. 104 00:05:27.129 --> 00:05:29.089 So I think that's absolutely true. And I think the 105 00:05:29.129 --> 00:05:31.910 other thing, as you pointed out, was that I think that, 106 00:05:32.129 --> 00:05:34.449 you know, the way our lives are structured in this, 107 00:05:34.540 --> 00:05:36.779 you know, in the culture is that you do go 108 00:05:36.839 --> 00:05:41.269 through a basic, you know, paces, you know, school and 109 00:05:41.290 --> 00:05:44.009 through college and then your first career and then your 110 00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:46.500 marriage and then but then when you do reach you 111 00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:50.139 know around you know your 40s and 50s that that 112 00:05:50.180 --> 00:05:52.959 structure kind of ends and you need to start figuring 113 00:05:53.019 --> 00:05:55.610 out things out you know um in a different kind 114 00:05:55.620 --> 00:05:56.129 of way. 115 00:05:55.959 --> 00:05:59.050 Yeah and i think you know um a lot of 116 00:05:59.069 --> 00:06:01.230 people talk about sort of the idea of reinvention of 117 00:06:01.269 --> 00:06:03.509 retirement or people say to me all the time well 118 00:06:03.629 --> 00:06:08.199 isn't isn't retirement over isn't that concept dead and you know, 119 00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:11.069 it's really not, I mean, people do still retire now. 120 00:06:12.290 --> 00:06:16.009 People are some, some segments of the workforce are working 121 00:06:16.069 --> 00:06:19.509 longer than they had working past sort of the traditional 122 00:06:19.550 --> 00:06:23.110 retirement ages. This tend to be, you know, higher educated 123 00:06:23.170 --> 00:06:26.899 white collar professional kind of creative class people, not, not 124 00:06:27.060 --> 00:06:30.459 people working on factory floors who generally are pretty happy 125 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:32.519 to be done with, with that by the time they 126 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:35.160 hit 60 or so. So there, there is that trend 127 00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:37.980 of working longer, but there's also sort of a, blurring 128 00:06:38.019 --> 00:06:40.120 of the line of what, what does it mean to 129 00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:43.639 be retired? Not people who maybe are no longer working full-time, 130 00:06:43.670 --> 00:06:45.850 but perhaps are doing some kind of gig work or 131 00:06:45.889 --> 00:06:48.490 part-time work, or perhaps they're doing volunteer work. They may 132 00:06:48.529 --> 00:06:51.170 be not working for pay, but you know, are still 133 00:06:51.230 --> 00:06:53.370 very much engaged. So there has been a lot of 134 00:06:53.410 --> 00:06:56.360 rethink of, of what it means. And now the pandemic 135 00:06:56.399 --> 00:06:58.560 has kind of swung a whole new light on, on 136 00:06:58.639 --> 00:07:01.120 all of this. So there's not a short, never a 137 00:07:01.160 --> 00:07:05.759 shortage of interesting things to write about on this beat. Right. Right. 138 00:07:06.329 --> 00:07:08.389 So

let's talk a little bit now about how does 139 00:07:08.420 --> 00:07:12.180 your work differentiate from other people in the retirement planning area? 140 00:07:13.339 --> 00:07:15.459 Well, I guess I would say this, that I have 141 00:07:15.500 --> 00:07:17.620 a focus that's somewhat different from a lot of the 142 00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:22.269 people on this beat in that I tend to focus 143 00:07:22.329 --> 00:07:28.129 heavily on social insurance, which means Social Security and Medicare primarily. 144 00:07:28.910 --> 00:07:31.870 And by contrast, I think the field in terms of 145 00:07:31.889 --> 00:07:35.699 people who cover retirement tends to be very investment oriented. 146 00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:39.300 and retirement saving focus. I think one of the reasons 147 00:07:39.339 --> 00:07:42.550 for that is that a lot of the press that 148 00:07:42.610 --> 00:07:45.029 covers this is New York based, so it's Wall Street. 149 00:07:45.089 --> 00:07:48.269 And so it just tends to be somewhat Wall Street centric. 150 00:07:48.930 --> 00:07:54.970 But the reality is that retirement saving is really of importance. 151 00:07:55.329 --> 00:07:57.220 If you look at sort of where who's able to 152 00:07:57.279 --> 00:08:01.439 save and who has retirement saving of any significance, it's 153 00:08:01.500 --> 00:08:04.779 maybe one third of households. If I wanna be really generous, 154 00:08:04.839 --> 00:08:09.709 I'll say 40%. And for everybody else, the main thing 155 00:08:09.769 --> 00:08:12.709 in retirement is going to be Medicare and Social Security. 156 00:08:12.810 --> 00:08:15.750 And even the phrase social insurance, a lot of listeners 157 00:08:15.810 --> 00:08:18.480 are probably going, what the heck is that? Well, social 158 00:08:18.519 --> 00:08:23.300 insurance is a phrase that used to be in common understanding. 159 00:08:23.339 --> 00:08:27.279 And it refers to these insurance programs, Social Security, Medicare, 160 00:08:27.379 --> 00:08:32.379 that protect us against risk in retirement. And the word 161 00:08:32.419 --> 00:08:35.759 social just means that they are public programs. They're things 162 00:08:35.830 --> 00:08:39.559 that we fund and do together as a society. And, 163 00:08:39.580 --> 00:08:43.259 you know, Medicare, I think probably everybody understands as insurance, 164 00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:46.559 it's health insurance. I don't know if everybody understands social 165 00:08:46.600 --> 00:08:50.730 security as insurance, but in an important sense, it is 166 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:53.990 because it's insuring you against the risk of lost income. 167 00:08:54.830 --> 00:08:56.629 You know, we, we tend to think of social security 168 00:08:56.690 --> 00:08:59.710 as really a retirement program and it is, but it's 169 00:08:59.769 --> 00:09:04.250 also a program for people with disabilities, for example, or 170 00:09:04.759 --> 00:09:08.480 for widows. If you are married and a spouse dies early, 171 00:09:09.279 -->

00:09:12.470 survivor benefits for children. So it is a program that 172 00:09:12.549 --> 00:09:18.029 broadly speaking ensures against sudden unexpected loss of income. And 173 00:09:18.070 --> 00:09:21.629 when you retire, that maybe is not always an unexpected 174 00:09:21.669 --> 00:09:24.029 loss of income, but it's a loss of income nonetheless. 175 00:09:24.090 --> 00:09:26.490 So I tend to think of social security that way. 176 00:09:26.909 --> 00:09:30.279 So I think that's one way that I differentiate what 177 00:09:30.340 --> 00:09:33.970 I do. You know, I'm less interested in, not that 178 00:09:34.009 --> 00:09:37.700 I don't write about investing. I do write about 401ks 179 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:41.000 and IRAs and all the ins and outs of that stuff. 180 00:09:41.700 --> 00:09:44.620 But I'm not somebody who ever is writing about investment 181 00:09:44.659 --> 00:09:47.519 picks or invest in this stock or that stock or 182 00:09:47.539 --> 00:09:51.230 this fund or that fund. In fact, I'm a pretty 183 00:09:51.299 --> 00:09:54.509 firm believer that for most people, the best thing is 184 00:09:54.570 --> 00:09:59.340 to be invested in passive, low-cost, total market index funds 185 00:09:59.399 --> 00:10:04.139 or exchange-traded funds. And it's really all about contributing regularly, 186 00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:08.360 watch your costs, watch your balance, meaning the mix between 187 00:10:09.539 --> 00:10:11.159 what you have in stocks and what you have in 188 00:10:11.659 --> 00:10:15.049 fixed income investments and the like. So I'm not somebody 189 00:10:15.090 --> 00:10:18.190 who spends a lot of time in the investment pick area. 190 00:10:18.590 --> 00:10:18.710 Right. 191 00:10:19.090 --> 00:10:21.620 Focus more on these other areas I just mentioned. Plus, 192 00:10:21.669 --> 00:10:24.860 I do a lot of writing about careers, even though 193 00:10:24.899 --> 00:10:27.620 the beat is retirement. Because as you mentioned, we're talking 194 00:10:27.639 --> 00:10:31.470 about people who are in the ramp towards retirement. So 195 00:10:31.590 --> 00:10:34.269 if you're in your 50s, your early 60s, or what 196 00:10:34.309 --> 00:10:36.669 have you, you're still working or trying to keep working 197 00:10:37.710 --> 00:10:42.009 as you move towards retirement. So that late career phase 198 00:10:42.070 --> 00:10:43.860 is something of great interest to me. And I think 199 00:10:43.899 --> 00:10:47.950 it's actually One of the most important determinants of a 200 00:10:48.009 --> 00:10:52.809 successful retirement is what that ramp looked like. A great 201 00:10:52.830 --> 00:10:56.299 concern right now is with millions of people losing their 202 00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:59.600 jobs in the pandemic at older ages, what that's going 203 00:10:59.620 --> 00:11:01.139 to do to their retirement prospects. 204 00:11:02.460 --> 00:11:05.240 Let's just step back again to look at Social Security. 205 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:12.230 I think you're absolutely right that Social Security and Medicare 206 00:11:12.250 --> 00:11:16.059 are two really critical pillars of our retirement, whatever that 207 00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:19.139 looks like. And I think we tend to be a little, man, 208 00:11:19.200 --> 00:11:21.639 a little overlooking, not to maybe dismiss it, but just 209 00:11:21.659 --> 00:11:24.500 sort of assume it without paying quite enough attention to it. 210 00:11:24.539 --> 00:11:26.840 So I think that certainly there's been a lot of 211 00:11:26.899 --> 00:11:29.620 talk about, you know, um, well, social security is not 212 00:11:29.679 --> 00:11:32.419 nearly enough to maintain you through your retirement years. And 213 00:11:32.460 --> 00:11:34.960 will the, you know, what's going to happen to social security? 214 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:37.710 Is it going to go under? So talk a little 215 00:11:37.730 --> 00:11:40.490 about that in terms of, um, you know, what you see, 216 00:11:40.629 --> 00:11:42.690 cause I know you write about policy as well in 217 00:11:42.730 --> 00:11:45.419 terms of, and, uh, What do you see in terms 218 00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:47.279 of the solvency of Social Security? 219 00:11:47.299 --> 00:11:50.519 Yeah. And let me just quickly address the question of, 220 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:53.720 you know, is it enough to live on? You know, 221 00:11:53.740 --> 00:11:58.139 Social Security, it's interesting. It's the benefit formula for Social 222 00:11:58.220 --> 00:12:01.600 Security is progressive in the sense that it returns a 223 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:08.190 higher percentage of your pre-retirement income to lower income households 224 00:12:08.269 --> 00:12:10.970 and middle income households than it does to high income. So, 225 00:12:11.889 --> 00:12:15.250 you know, the critical issue in you know, the critical, 226 00:12:15.409 --> 00:12:17.789 is it enough question is just the way it needs 227 00:12:17.809 --> 00:12:21.549 to be measured as how much of your pre-retirement income 228 00:12:21.590 --> 00:12:24.129 are you able to replace in retirement? That's the essential 229 00:12:24.169 --> 00:12:27.740 way to think about maintaining your standard of living in retirement. 230 00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:30.820 So social security, you know, if you're a lower income 231 00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:35.399 person might replace 40, 45% of pre-retirement income, and it 232 00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:39.100 might probably something in the high thirties if you're high income. 233 00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:43.139 So is that enough? You know, no, probably not. On 234 00:12:43.159 --> 00:12:46.639 the other hand, if you're fortunate to have two social 235 00:12:46.659 --> 00:12:50.019 security incomes coming into a household, if you're married, that's 236 00:12:50.419 --> 00:12:55.659 gonna beef that up. But that's the essential rationale for 237 00:12:55.820 --> 00:12:58.690 needing to save for retirement is that you wanna have 238 00:12:58.750 --> 00:13:03.470

something beyond social security. But unfortunately in many cases, it's 239 00:13:03.950 --> 00:13:06.610 really all that's available because a lot of middle and 240 00:13:06.649 --> 00:13:08.889 lower income households have just not been able to save 241 00:13:09.220 --> 00:13:12.519 for a variety of reasons. To hear the second part 242 00:13:12.539 --> 00:13:16.220 of your question, Yes. We're constantly hearing that Social Security 243 00:13:16.299 --> 00:13:21.259 is headed for financial insolvency, a financial cliff, and we 244 00:13:21.279 --> 00:13:26.840 should all be worried about that. I think it's important 245 00:13:26.860 --> 00:13:29.659 to separate myth from reality here. It is true that 246 00:13:29.679 --> 00:13:38.679 Social Security has a long-range financial sustainability problem in this sense. 247 00:13:40.360 --> 00:13:43.539 We talked about the Social Security Trust Fund and That's 248 00:13:43.580 --> 00:13:46.200 kind of a geeky sounding term, but the best way 249 00:13:46.220 --> 00:13:48.679 to understand the trust fund of Social Security is this. 250 00:13:48.759 --> 00:13:52.049 It's like a checking account. So the tax dollars that 251 00:13:52.110 --> 00:13:55.110 come in from our payroll tax payments go into the 252 00:13:55.149 --> 00:13:58.610 checking account, and then the government writes checks off that 253 00:13:58.649 --> 00:14:01.710 account to pay benefits. So for the last 20 years, 254 00:14:01.750 --> 00:14:05.129 the checking account has been really full. And there still is, 255 00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:08.399 I believe it's about $ 3 trillion sitting in the checking account. 256 00:14:10.990 --> 00:14:14.190 The problem is that as the boomer age wave accelerates 257 00:14:14.309 --> 00:14:17.669 and also as there are fewer younger workers coming into 258 00:14:17.690 --> 00:14:21.330 the workforce as a ratio measured against people who are 259 00:14:21.350 --> 00:14:24.690 drawing benefits, that checking account is going to start to 260 00:14:24.730 --> 00:14:27.029 be drawn down pretty rapidly. And so the issue is 261 00:14:27.070 --> 00:14:30.360 that around 2034, the checking account is going to be empty. 262 00:14:30.929 --> 00:14:34.500 And at that point, there'll be sufficient revenue coming in 263 00:14:34.519 --> 00:14:38.200 the door from current tax payments. to meet about 80% 264 00:14:38.200 --> 00:14:42.720 of the promised benefits, the scheduled benefits. So if nothing 265 00:14:42.759 --> 00:14:46.980 else is done, we're looking at a rather dramatic cut 266 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:49.840 in about 20% across the board and everybody's benefits, which 267 00:14:49.879 --> 00:14:53.200 would be a disaster really for many people. And that's 268 00:14:53.240 --> 00:14:56.320 an across the board immediate cut. So that's the concern. 269 00:14:57.860 --> 00:14:59.539 The good news is there are lots of ways to 270 00:14:59.600 --> 00:15:04.059 fix that. And it can be done. Basically, you have 271 00:15:04.179 --> 00:15:06.460 several ways to go. You can either add new revenue 272 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:10.080 into the system, you can cut benefits, or you can 273 00:15:10.120 --> 00:15:15.090 do some combination of the two. And what gets done 274 00:15:15.110 --> 00:15:16.590 in the end is going to depend on the shape 275 00:15:16.669 --> 00:15:21.269 of the political balance in Washington. And also, very importantly, 276 00:15:21.330 --> 00:15:25.049 there's a timing question, namely, when do we get to 277 00:15:25.590 --> 00:15:27.860 around to fixing this problem between now and 2034? That's 278 00:15:27.909 --> 00:15:33.210 hard to predict. But the one thing I'll say about 279 00:15:33.250 --> 00:15:35.029 it is this is, well, I'll say two things about it. 280 00:15:35.129 --> 00:15:37.350 One is the closer you get to 2034, the more 281 00:15:37.429 --> 00:15:41.269 likely it is that the solution is only new revenue 282 00:15:41.309 --> 00:15:44.470 and not benefit cuts. And that's just simple math because 283 00:15:44.590 --> 00:15:48.190 the closer you get, you can't achieve the savings you 284 00:15:48.230 --> 00:15:50.789 need through benefit cuts. There's just not enough time. And 285 00:15:50.830 --> 00:15:52.389 the second thing I'll say about it is that the 286 00:15:52.450 --> 00:15:55.149 appropriate solution is more revenue. The last thing we need 287 00:15:55.169 --> 00:15:58.769 to do right now is make social security less generous. 288 00:15:58.830 --> 00:16:01.190 The way's The ways you would do that would be, 289 00:16:01.350 --> 00:16:03.850 for example, by raising the retirement age. There's a couple 290 00:16:03.889 --> 00:16:06.970 other ways that it can be done. So the good 291 00:16:06.990 --> 00:16:09.789 news is that there are clear ways to fix it. 292 00:16:10.090 --> 00:16:13.769 A very clear majority of the American public across all 293 00:16:13.820 --> 00:16:19.940 different political and demographic segments favor that approach. They favor 294 00:16:19.980 --> 00:16:24.399 keeping Social Security strong and are in favor of paying 295 00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:28.220 more if it's necessary to keep the program strong. I 296 00:16:28.259 --> 00:16:30.899 think something will happen. It's really hard for me to 297 00:16:30.980 --> 00:16:35.299 imagine any member of Congress who would be willing to 298 00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:38.019 go home to his or her district and explain why 299 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:41.360 they allowed a 20% cut in Social Security benefits to 300 00:16:41.379 --> 00:16:43.639 happen to constituents. That's pretty hard to imagine. 301 00:16:43.980 --> 00:16:49.100 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it'll go across both parties and any 302 00:16:49.139 --> 00:16:51.899 party there is. It's still a very popular program. 303 00:16:52.590 --> 00:16:55.110 Yeah, there's different ways to do this. You could do 304 00:16:55.149 --> 00:16:57.570 it with a higher payroll tax. That's one way, but 305 00:16:57.610 -->

00:17:01.110 you could have a very incremental small increases every year 306 00:17:01.210 --> 00:17:04.299 for a 10 or 20 year period. Other ideas that 307 00:17:04.339 --> 00:17:08.240 are floating around out there include things like hot taxes 308 00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:13.000 on high net worth individuals or taxes on stock transactions 309 00:17:13.019 --> 00:17:16.480 like a Wall Street tax. Another interesting idea would be 310 00:17:16.539 --> 00:17:20.359 to allow the trust fund to invest some small portion 311 00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:23.650 of its holdings in equities. Right now, the trust fund 312 00:17:23.710 --> 00:17:28.950 is restricted by law to investing only in fixing in bonds. 313 00:17:28.970 --> 00:17:30.490 There's a special type of bond. 314 00:17:30.250 --> 00:17:32.730 That they- Mark, let's hold that thought. And we just 315 00:17:32.769 --> 00:17:34.710 need to take a break in a few seconds. But 316 00:17:35.250 --> 00:17:37.089 when we come back from the break, let's pick that 317 00:17:37.130 --> 00:17:39.880 up again and also look at some issues about what 318 00:17:39.910 --> 00:17:41.950 things people should do in terms of figuring out when 319 00:17:41.990 --> 00:17:44.759 to take Social Security. So we're going to take a 320 00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:47.079 quick break, folks, but don't go anywhere. We'll be right 321 00:17:47.140 --> 00:17:48.579 back with more from Mark Miller. 322 00:17:51.529 --> 00:17:54.710 You're listening to 45 Forward. To reach Ron Roel or 323 00:17:54.750 --> 00:17:58.619 his guest on the program, please send an email to ron.roel 324 00:17:58.940 --> 00:18:06.480 at gmail.com. That's ron.roel at gmail.com. Now back to 45 Forward. 325 00:18:09.019 --> 00:18:11.920 Welcome back to 45 Forward, where we're talking with Mark Miller, 326 00:18:11.940 --> 00:18:15.890 a nationally recognized journalist, podcaster, and author who writes about 327 00:18:16.150 --> 00:18:19.170 trends in retirement and aging. Mark is the editor and 328 00:18:19.190 --> 00:18:23.160 publisher of retirementrevised.com, where you should be sure to check 329 00:18:23.240 --> 00:18:25.779 this out, where he has many resources on the site, 330 00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:29.660 articles and a newsletter, which you can subscribe to, retirement 331 00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:36.430 revised guides, books, podcasts. So with that, let me just, 332 00:18:36.910 --> 00:18:41.230 before the break, Mark, we were talking about social security solvency, 333 00:18:41.269 --> 00:18:43.650 and you were suggesting that there are many ways to 334 00:18:43.710 --> 00:18:47.750 fix it before it becomes insolvent. And the main one 335 00:18:47.789 --> 00:18:52.289 being to figure out how to add revenue into the system. 336 00:18:52.890 --> 00:18:55.099 But even assuming that we're going to fix that, and 337 00:18:55.119 --> 00:18:56.740 I can't imagine we're not going to find a way 338 00:18:56.759 --> 00:19:00.539 to do that politically. Even so, there are still decisions 339 00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:02.400 that people need to think about in terms of when 340 00:19:02.420 --> 00:19:05.119 to take Social Security. It's not quite the passive thing. 341 00:19:05.740 --> 00:19:07.200 I think if you're a few years away, you're not 342 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:09.079 thinking about it, but there are decisions to make about 343 00:19:09.380 --> 00:19:11.079 how and when to take it. Talk a little bit 344 00:19:11.099 --> 00:19:11.539 about that. 345 00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:17.250 Sure. Well, the fundamental thing to understand about the claiming 346 00:19:17.410 --> 00:19:21.710 of your retirement benefit from a timing standpoint is this, 347 00:19:21.789 --> 00:19:25.759 that it all revolves around what's called your full retirement age, 348 00:19:25.819 --> 00:19:28.339 which is the age at which you're entitled to receive 349 00:19:28.339 --> 00:19:31.859 100% of the benefit that you've earned over the course 350 00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:35.480 of your career. And you can file as young as 351 00:19:35.509 --> 00:19:39.829 age 62, and you could wait as long as till 352 00:19:39.869 --> 00:19:45.029 age 70 to file if you chose to. And depending 353 00:19:45.049 --> 00:19:50.460 when you do that, you'll receive more or less, on 354 00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:53.339 a monthly or annual basis. So for example, let's say 355 00:19:53.380 --> 00:19:57.319 you started at 62, you know, the earliest age, you'd 356 00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:00.180 receive a reduced benefit for the rest of your life. 357 00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:06.180 It'd be 25% lower by waiting past that full retirement age. 358 00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:09.880 you start to receive what's called the delayed retirement credit, 359 00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:13.440 which is equal to 8% for every 12 months that 360 00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:16.119 you delay. And the credits are available till age 70. 361 00:20:16.099 --> 00:20:20.650 So at that point, you know, there's no reason to delay. And, 362 00:20:20.890 --> 00:20:22.130 you know, in terms of when to do it, I 363 00:20:22.450 --> 00:20:25.509 just would say there's no one size fits all answer. 364 00:20:25.569 --> 00:20:29.450 It's a very personal decision. You know, you may need 365 00:20:29.690 --> 00:20:30.990 income coming in the door at age 62. As a 366 00:20:30.990 --> 00:20:37.500 general point, You know, it's beneficial to delay at least somewhat, 367 00:20:38.339 --> 00:20:40.859 you know, wait till your full retirement age or later. 368 00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:44.380 But there definitely could be reasons why you might not 369 00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:48.549 do that. An example would be, well, the fundamental question 370 00:20:48.609 --> 00:20:52.329 here is, if you're going to delay, how, you know, 371 00:20:52.369 --> 00:20:54.309 what do you do to meet living expenses while you 372 00:20:54.349 --> 00:20:56.150 delay if you are, you know, if you're no longer 373 00:20:56.210 --> 00:20:59.839 working

full time? If you're able to work longer, that's, 374 00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:02.059 you know, a great way to fund a delay. 375 00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:02.160 Okay. 376 00:21:02.940 --> 00:21:05.529 Another way to fund a delay in benefit claiming is 377 00:21:05.569 --> 00:21:09.529 to draw down from savings, which may sound somewhat counterintuitive. 378 00:21:09.589 --> 00:21:11.250 I know a lot of people sort of their eyebrows 379 00:21:11.309 --> 00:21:14.250 go up when I say this, but actually, if you 380 00:21:14.269 --> 00:21:18.069 think about, let's say you are no longer working and 381 00:21:18.109 --> 00:21:20.009 you haven't filed for Social Security, that means you're going 382 00:21:20.029 --> 00:21:23.349 to be in that given year in a much lower 383 00:21:23.410 --> 00:21:26.079 tax bracket. And if you have dollars, if you have 384 00:21:26.119 --> 00:21:29.900 funds accumulated in a tax deferred account, an IRA or 385 00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:33.309 a 401k, that's a good year to be drawing dollars 386 00:21:33.369 --> 00:21:37.910 down because those funds, those drawdowns get taxed as ordinary 387 00:21:37.970 --> 00:21:41.029 income in the year that you draw them. So, you know, 388 00:21:41.529 --> 00:21:43.309 a lot of experts say that, yeah, that can be 389 00:21:43.329 --> 00:21:45.599 a good strategy, you know, take a couple of years 390 00:21:45.650 --> 00:21:49.319 to live off of at least some of your accumulated 391 00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:53.460 tax deferred savings while you wait. But there's a lot 392 00:21:53.480 --> 00:21:55.460 of variations on this. A lot of times when I 393 00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:57.980 comment on this, people, what they hear is you got 394 00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:00.630 to wait till age 70. And I don't really say 395 00:22:00.670 --> 00:22:02.829 that at all. I just try to lay out what 396 00:22:02.869 --> 00:22:06.089 the benefits can be of a delayed claim, because if 397 00:22:06.109 --> 00:22:10.710 you delay past 66 and you're getting 8% higher income 398 00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:13.500 as a result of that, that kind of return is 399 00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:17.900 pretty tough to beat. Yeah, I agree. 400 00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:21.599 But as you said, it depends on your situation. You 401 00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:25.410 may need income sooner for various reasons. So it's hard, 402 00:22:25.589 --> 00:22:27.450 unless you really take a good you know, hard look 403 00:22:27.490 --> 00:22:30.259 at your situation to just make a blanket decision. 404 00:22:30.539 --> 00:22:32.460 And I think, you know, it's for married couples, it's 405 00:22:32.500 --> 00:22:36.019 also very important to have a coordinated strategy between the 406 00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:39.039 two of you. You know, because of the way that 407 00:22:39.059 --> 00:22:42.970 social security works, there is a spousal benefit that's available 408 00:22:43.490 --> 00:22:46.630 to couples, you know, when there may be that one 409 00:22:46.710 --> 00:22:51.349 partner could delay a bit and another files, you know, 410 00:22:51.369 --> 00:22:55.319 to begin bringing in some income. You know, the spousal 411 00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:59.289 benefit allows one partner to claim a benefit as high 412 00:22:59.349 --> 00:23:04.109 as 50% of the benefit at full retirement age of 413 00:23:04.210 --> 00:23:07.630 his or her spouse, so long as the spouse has 414 00:23:07.670 --> 00:23:12.130 already claimed benefits. So for example, let's think of a 415 00:23:12.170 --> 00:23:15.170 couple in which one spouse is 66 and the other 416 00:23:15.210 --> 00:23:18.799 is 63. So the older spouse, let's say that older 417 00:23:18.859 --> 00:23:22.769 spouse has a full retirement benefit of $ 2, 400. And the 418 00:23:22.809 --> 00:23:26.710 younger spouse could expect a full benefit of $ 1, 500. If 419 00:23:27.410 --> 00:23:31.210 they both file right now, rather than a full retirement age, 420 00:23:31.230 --> 00:23:36.250 they could be foregoing as much as $ 60, 000 in lifetime benefits. 421 00:23:36.789 --> 00:23:40.230 And if as compared with waiting until 70, more than 422 00:23:40.259 --> 00:23:42.640 a quarter million dollars lifetime. So it's a big deal. 423 00:23:43.359 --> 00:23:45.640 And these kind of coordinated strategies can make a lot 424 00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:50.109 of sense. There's a lot of, there's some interesting, tools 425 00:23:50.170 --> 00:23:53.390 and advisory services out there that can help people kind 426 00:23:53.410 --> 00:23:55.970 of run their numbers. I think it's a good idea to, 427 00:23:56.569 --> 00:23:59.109 rather than just take a cookie cutter advice from someone 428 00:23:59.130 --> 00:24:02.619 like me talking on the radio, to actually run your numbers. 429 00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:04.140 You know, there are services out there where you can 430 00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:07.660 plug in your primary, your full benefit amount, which is 431 00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:11.099 called the primary insurance amount and that of a spouse. And, 432 00:24:11.700 --> 00:24:14.480 you know, these services can run scenarios for you and say, well, 433 00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:16.119 if you do this, it'll mean this. And if you 434 00:24:16.140 --> 00:24:19.839 do that, And then life expectancy figures into that too. 435 00:24:19.930 --> 00:24:22.079 So it's a lot of different factors. It's worth running 436 00:24:22.099 --> 00:24:25.480 the numbers and taking a look. Right. Good, good. 437 00:24:25.880 --> 00:24:27.920 So let's just take a shift now and look at 438 00:24:27.940 --> 00:24:30.619 the other part of social insurance we were talking about, Medicare. 439 00:24:31.660 --> 00:24:34.490 And doesn't this face similar kinds of problems in Social 440 00:24:34.509 --> 00:24:38.009 Security in terms of the solvency of the system as 441 00:24:38.069 --> 00:24:40.670 the population grows and more services get used? 442 00:24:41.569 --> 00:24:44.569 Yeah, this is an interesting one because

oftentimes the solvency 443 00:24:44.609 --> 00:24:48.569 issue for Social Security and Medicare kind of gets lumped together. 444 00:24:48.890 --> 00:24:51.349 And people will say, well, they're both headed for bankruptcy. 445 00:24:51.390 --> 00:24:55.880 They're both insolvent. It's really important to understand that the programs, 446 00:24:55.930 --> 00:24:59.960 the two programs are structured very differently. And the issues 447 00:25:00.019 --> 00:25:03.339 in Medicare are quite different than they are in Social Security. 448 00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:07.720 And here's what I mean by that. Not all parts 449 00:25:07.779 --> 00:25:11.640 of Medicare are funded the same way. So part A 450 00:25:11.700 --> 00:25:15.279 of Medicare, which is the part that pays for hospitalization, 451 00:25:16.339 --> 00:25:19.700 is funded very much like Social Security is. It's funded 452 00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:24.000 through a payroll tax that's collected on your earnings. Excuse me. 453 00:25:25.299 --> 00:25:30.559 And the trust fund pays benefits out of that checking account. 454 00:25:32.619 --> 00:25:35.619 But on the other hand, Part B, which is what 455 00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:41.630 funds outpatient services, is financed through general government revenue and 456 00:25:41.690 --> 00:25:44.390 the premiums you pay, your Part B premium. And the 457 00:25:44.430 --> 00:25:48.769 same is true for... Well, it's free, quote unquote free. 458 00:25:48.789 --> 00:25:51.130 I mean, you've been paying into it your entire working life. 459 00:25:51.190 --> 00:25:53.750 But yes, you don't pay a premium for it in 460 00:25:53.789 --> 00:25:57.109 most circumstances. There are some limited circumstances where there might 461 00:25:57.150 --> 00:26:00.859 be a premium. But so part A is facing a 462 00:26:00.900 --> 00:26:04.720 solvency issue right now. Part B and part D really 463 00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:09.359 take care of themselves because whatever the expected spending of 464 00:26:09.380 --> 00:26:13.180 the program is going to be, Congress allocates dollars for that. 465 00:26:14.039 --> 00:26:17.059 And Medicare adjusts the premium for the coming year. So 466 00:26:17.900 --> 00:26:21.259 those just are self-adjusting. Part A has some of the 467 00:26:21.299 --> 00:26:24.819 same kinds of issues that we were discussing with Social Security. 468 00:26:24.839 --> 00:26:28.720 And the interesting thing with Medicare Part A is that 469 00:26:29.220 --> 00:26:33.019 it's actually a looming, more immediate problem. The trust fund 470 00:26:33.140 --> 00:26:38.759 is projected to be empty as early as 2024. And 471 00:26:38.819 --> 00:26:41.160 perhaps it might be a couple of years later, depending 472 00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:44.410 on whose forecast you are looking at. And the big 473 00:26:44.470 --> 00:26:47.869 issue there is a combination of, you know, just rising 474 00:26:47.970 --> 00:26:52.339 healthcare costs on the one hand and accelerated now by 475 00:26:52.410 --> 00:26:57.519 declining payroll tax receipts because of the pandemic induced recession. 476 00:26:57.799 --> 00:26:59.779 So it's a more complex picture for Medicare. 477 00:27:01.019 --> 00:27:01.619 Right, right. 478 00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:04.039 And of course, there are more choices to make in 479 00:27:04.099 --> 00:27:07.000 here too. I mean, so now we have, you know, 480 00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:10.309 traditional Medicare A and B, and then now we have 481 00:27:10.329 --> 00:27:14.549 the Medicare Advantage plans, the managed care plan. So How 482 00:27:14.569 --> 00:27:19.470 do you consider, again, when you get... Well, first of all, 483 00:27:19.490 --> 00:27:22.079 let's just backtrack a little bit. There are certain specific 484 00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:24.960 periods when you can make choices about whether to enroll 485 00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:30.799 in regular Medicare versus managed care plans and the Part 486 00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:34.359 D drug plans. So what are the things to watch 487 00:27:34.420 --> 00:27:36.339 out for in terms of when to enroll and what 488 00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:39.019 are the penalties for not enrolling on time? 489 00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:43.029 Right. Well... there are basically two different times when you 490 00:27:43.049 --> 00:27:46.009 can make these decisions. One is at the point of 491 00:27:46.089 --> 00:27:50.470 initial enrollment in Medicare. You know, you're eligible to enroll 492 00:27:50.529 --> 00:27:53.849 at age 65. And so, you know, if you're not 493 00:27:53.890 --> 00:27:58.710 working at age 65 and you're going to enroll, that's 494 00:27:58.869 --> 00:28:02.750 the first big decision point in terms of how you're 495 00:28:02.769 --> 00:28:05.190 going to enroll in Medicare. As you just said, Ron, 496 00:28:05.210 --> 00:28:10.470 there's original Medicare, which is fee-for-service Medicare. You Enroll in 497 00:28:10.519 --> 00:28:13.720 Part A, you enroll in Part B, and perhaps probably 498 00:28:13.779 --> 00:28:16.900 Part D as well. You might add a Medigap supplemental 499 00:28:16.940 --> 00:28:19.400 plan because there's all these different tiers that you would 500 00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:22.759 put together. The other option is to join what's called 501 00:28:22.819 --> 00:28:26.640 a Medicare Advantage plan. Basically, it's like rolling all those 502 00:28:26.740 --> 00:28:31.480 parts into one, and it's managed care. It's usually either 503 00:28:31.500 --> 00:28:35.059 an HMO or a PPO. So it's a privately offered 504 00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:40.670 commercial alternative to original Medicare. And it comes with some 505 00:28:40.710 --> 00:28:43.769 pluses and minuses, I would say. But one of the 506 00:28:43.789 --> 00:28:45.650 things I like to emphasize that this is one of 507 00:28:45.670 --> 00:28:49.769 the most important decisions that you'll make in retirement is 508 00:28:49.789 --> 00:28:52.269 that when you first sign up for Medicare, whether to 509

00:28:52.309 --> 00:28:56.089 go with original Medicare or Medicare Advantage, the reason I 510 00:28:56.150 --> 00:28:59.759 say that is that you can move back and forth 511 00:28:59.799 --> 00:29:04.799 between those two options subsequently during what's called the annual 512 00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:09.359 fall enrollment period that runs from mid-October to early December. 513 00:29:09.970 --> 00:29:11.849 But there's a catch that a lot of people don't 514 00:29:11.910 --> 00:29:16.390 really understand. And it's this, that let's say when you 515 00:29:16.430 --> 00:29:20.500 first enroll in Medicare, you go into Medicare Advantage. Well, 516 00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:22.759 and then let's say later you want to go back 517 00:29:22.819 --> 00:29:26.960 into original Medicare. The problem with that is that, as 518 00:29:27.019 --> 00:29:29.279 I mentioned, most people are going to want a supplemental 519 00:29:29.579 --> 00:29:34.140 benefit insurance if they're in original Medicare, which is commonly 520 00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:39.670 called Medigap. And what that supplemental insurance does is helps 521 00:29:39.690 --> 00:29:43.740 you kind of control your out-of-pocket risk in a variety 522 00:29:43.779 --> 00:29:45.599 of ways. So it's an important thing to have if 523 00:29:45.660 --> 00:29:49.940 you're in original Medicare, either via Medigap or some people 524 00:29:49.980 --> 00:29:53.079 get it as a retirement benefit from an employer or 525 00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:57.549 a union. But when you're enrolling in Medigap, There is 526 00:29:57.710 --> 00:30:00.690 what's called a guaranteed issue window that's available when you 527 00:30:00.750 --> 00:30:05.910 first enroll. And that means that a Medigap insurance provider 528 00:30:06.630 --> 00:30:11.170 must offer you a policy irrespective of a preexisting condition, 529 00:30:11.190 --> 00:30:13.230 and they must offer it to you at the most 530 00:30:13.289 --> 00:30:18.690 favorable rate. But that's only guaranteed to you at the 531 00:30:18.730 --> 00:30:21.660 point of initial enrollment, unless you live in a handful 532 00:30:21.700 --> 00:30:27.250 of states that have ongoing guaranteed issue rights. So if 533 00:30:27.289 --> 00:30:30.910 you don't have that protection, going back to original Medicare 534 00:30:30.950 --> 00:30:34.109 later on could be quite problematic. It could mean that 535 00:30:34.150 --> 00:30:38.559 you must basically, from a practical standpoint, need to stay 536 00:30:38.599 --> 00:30:42.519 in advantage. So I've written about this extensively, and there's 537 00:30:42.539 --> 00:30:47.000 a lot of complications to it, but I think it's underappreciated. 538 00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:51.380 There's so much marketing material out there these days focused 539 00:30:51.440 --> 00:30:54.509 on getting people to join Advantage. It's a very fast-growing... 540 00:30:55.170 --> 00:30:57.670 component of Medicare, but I think a lot of people 541 00:30:57.730 --> 00:31:00.690 sort of get dazzled by the bells and whistles and 542 00:31:00.710 --> 00:31:06.029 the simplicity of Medicare Advantage without necessarily weighing carefully the 543 00:31:07.250 --> 00:31:09.710 plus minus of those two options. The big one to 544 00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:13.230 know is that Medicare Advantage is managed care. And so 545 00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:16.680 you're going to have network restrictions, which, you know, maybe 546 00:31:16.740 --> 00:31:20.019 is okay, but, you know, it's important to think at 547 00:31:20.059 --> 00:31:23.319 age 65 about what your healthcare needs might be at 548 00:31:23.380 --> 00:31:27.759 age 80. 75, when you may have more serious issues 549 00:31:27.779 --> 00:31:31.220 to deal with and the physician or healthcare provider you 550 00:31:31.259 --> 00:31:32.960 want to see might or might not be in your 551 00:31:32.980 --> 00:31:36.319 Advantage plan. The other thing about Advantage plans is that 552 00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:40.480 the providers are free to make changes as they like 553 00:31:40.619 --> 00:31:43.720 in the provider network. So a doctor or a hospital 554 00:31:43.769 --> 00:31:46.329 that is in network at age 65 might not be 555 00:31:46.349 --> 00:31:51.609 at age 66 or seven. So if choosing your providers 556 00:31:51.690 --> 00:31:58.099 is important to you, you think twice about Medicare Advantage. Right. Right. Yeah. 557 00:31:58.140 --> 00:32:00.339 I think in terms of, you were talking before about Medigap, 558 00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:02.380 I think the important thing to note there is that 559 00:32:02.460 --> 00:32:05.859 the traditional Medicare only covers 80% of your costs. So 560 00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:09.279 that fills in the gap in terms of your out-of-pocket expenses. 561 00:32:09.940 --> 00:32:14.349 It does that. It also puts a cap on your out-of-pocket, 562 00:32:14.380 --> 00:32:17.650 for example, for a hospitalization. So it's an important way 563 00:32:17.690 --> 00:32:19.529 to control costs. Right. Right. 564 00:32:20.190 --> 00:32:22.089 And then, yeah, I think you're absolutely right in terms 565 00:32:22.190 --> 00:32:25.900 of the advantage plans you know how important is flexibility 566 00:32:25.940 --> 00:32:28.269 to you you know i think that that's that's a 567 00:32:28.309 --> 00:32:31.029 key issue and uh it's hard to project ahead you 568 00:32:31.069 --> 00:32:33.789 know uh at what your future health care needs to 569 00:32:33.809 --> 00:32:35.789 be but it's important to think about it you know 570 00:32:35.869 --> 00:32:39.430 and to think about um uh just just what it 571 00:32:39.509 --> 00:32:41.130 is i guess the same thing is true in terms 572 00:32:41.170 --> 00:32:43.210 of looking at part d plans right the drug part 573 00:32:43.250 --> 00:32:45.990 right what yeah what what are the formularies for. 574 00:32:45.910 --> 00:32:48.950 That right so exactly so you were that's the other 575 00:32:49.490 --> 00:32:52.069 thing to to

spend a minute on is we were asking, 576 00:32:52.089 --> 00:32:55.369 you know, when can you make these decisions? So, you know, 577 00:32:55.390 --> 00:32:58.809 every fall there's an annual enrollment period when people can 578 00:32:58.869 --> 00:33:04.130 and should recheck their prescription drug coverage or advantage coverage, 579 00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:09.079 because the big thing is that, as you say, plan 580 00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:12.680 formularies can change. That just, formularies just means the list 581 00:33:12.740 --> 00:33:15.000 of drugs that are covered under the plan and under 582 00:33:15.059 --> 00:33:17.910 what terms, and the under what terms part can get 583 00:33:17.990 --> 00:33:23.329 quite complicated. So, most of the experts will encourage people 584 00:33:23.349 --> 00:33:26.970 who are on Medicare to reshop their coverage during fall enrollment, 585 00:33:27.009 --> 00:33:30.319 but really a small percentage do it, which is not 586 00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:33.119 surprising because it's sort of a human behavior thing. We 587 00:33:33.480 --> 00:33:35.680 set it and forget it and don't want to take 588 00:33:35.720 --> 00:33:39.460 the time and hassle to evaluate something that can actually 589 00:33:39.500 --> 00:33:43.529 be fairly complicated to evaluate. So this is one of 590 00:33:43.589 --> 00:33:46.930 my beefs with the way Medicare is structured is that 591 00:33:46.950 --> 00:33:50.309 there's so much complexity. There's a lot of these sort 592 00:33:50.329 --> 00:33:54.509 of marketplace-driven choices people need to make that they don't 593 00:33:54.549 --> 00:33:57.490 really have interest in doing or probably don't think they're 594 00:33:57.509 --> 00:34:00.430 competent to do it. So as a result of that, 595 00:34:00.470 --> 00:34:04.690 people wind up with ill-fitting coverage. Very often people will 596 00:34:04.730 --> 00:34:07.319 enroll in a Part D plan at the point of 597 00:34:07.380 --> 00:34:10.880 initial enrollment and they never change it. 10, 15 years later, 598 00:34:10.900 --> 00:34:12.659 they're still in the same plan, which might or might 599 00:34:12.699 --> 00:34:17.420 not be the most efficient from a cost standpoint or 600 00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:20.389 the best fit in terms of the medications covered and 601 00:34:20.409 --> 00:34:23.349 the like. So it's really, I think a big, you know, 602 00:34:23.389 --> 00:34:25.769 to me, it's a significant problem in Medicare is this 603 00:34:25.789 --> 00:34:29.880 sort of competition marketplace driven approach we've, we've moved towards. Right. 604 00:34:30.050 --> 00:34:32.820 And Medicare advantage keeps getting bigger every year. It's going 605 00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:35.780 to be half of all enrollment by the end of 606 00:34:35.820 --> 00:34:38.019 this decade, which is kind of shocking to think about. 607 00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:40.639 So it's one of the things that I think bears 608 00:34:40.679 --> 00:34:41.880 careful watching in Medicare. 609 00:34:42.139 --> 00:34:42.320 Yeah. 610 00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:46.750 Now, are there also, you know, resources that people can 611 00:34:47.769 --> 00:34:51.230 use to, to basically bounce these decisions. I know there's 612 00:34:51.269 --> 00:34:55.110 some Medicare counselors, there are in each state, there are 613 00:34:55.429 --> 00:34:59.429 programs to help evaluate your choices. 614 00:35:00.130 --> 00:35:02.570 Yeah, several to mention. One is that every state has 615 00:35:02.610 --> 00:35:06.179 what's called the State Health Information Program, which is SHIP 616 00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:11.820 for short. And these are networks of trained Medicare counselors 617 00:35:11.860 --> 00:35:17.039 who can help people through enrollment decisions, And there's actually 618 00:35:17.119 --> 00:35:20.039 a website that we can provide your listeners with a 619 00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:21.599 link to where you can look up the SHIP in 620 00:35:21.639 --> 00:35:24.530 your state or just Google it. But those are great 621 00:35:24.570 --> 00:35:27.849 places to get help. The Medicare Rights Center has a 622 00:35:28.849 --> 00:35:32.090 hotline or a toll-free number. It's a New York-based organization. 623 00:35:32.250 --> 00:35:37.050 It's very good at helping people with these decisions. I'll 624 00:35:37.070 --> 00:35:41.610 just mention that insurance brokers also can be very well-informed, 625 00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:44.929 useful folks to talk to, people who are representing Part 626 00:35:44.949 --> 00:35:48.650 D plans or Part C, which is Medicare Advantage. The 627 00:35:48.670 --> 00:35:50.849 only thing to know about there is that, you know, brokers, 628 00:35:50.909 --> 00:35:55.159 of course, are commission compensated. And so, you know, unlike 629 00:35:55.559 --> 00:36:00.440 either free counseling or fee-based counseling, which is also available, 630 00:36:01.239 --> 00:36:04.619 just know that, you know, they have a motive there 631 00:36:04.659 --> 00:36:07.809 that is either that is compensation driven, but it doesn't 632 00:36:07.849 --> 00:36:10.769 mean that they can't be really helpful because it's their 633 00:36:10.789 --> 00:36:12.710 business to know the ins and outs of these plans. 634 00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:15.340 And as I was just alluding to, there are several 635 00:36:15.380 --> 00:36:18.559 services out there that, you know, for a modest fee, 636 00:36:18.599 --> 00:36:21.380 we'll shop your plans for you and they, they do 637 00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:24.079 good work. And it's, you know, it's, uh, generally a 638 00:36:24.119 --> 00:36:27.000 few hundred dollars for, uh, you know, to, to move 639 00:36:27.019 --> 00:36:31.090 you from soup to nuts through the process. But I 640 00:36:31.119 --> 00:36:33.869 would say start with either your ship or, uh, you know, 641 00:36:34.050 --> 00:36:37.170 a free counseling service is usually, I think a really 642 00:36:37.190 --> 00:36:38.829 good way to go. Great.

Great. 643 00:36:39.349 --> 00:36:39.590 Okay. 644 00:36:39.610 --> 00:36:42.929 We're going to take another break. Um, uh, But don't 645 00:36:42.969 --> 00:36:45.789 go anywhere. We'll be right back with much more from 646 00:36:45.849 --> 00:36:48.989 Mark Miller. So we wrap up Medicare and talk about 647 00:36:49.010 --> 00:36:50.409 some other things. So don't go anywhere. 648 00:36:50.889 --> 00:36:51.380 We'll be back. 649 00:36:55.159 --> 00:36:58.340 You're listening to 45 Forward. To reach Ron Roel or 650 00:36:58.400 --> 00:37:02.260 his guest on the program, please send an email to ron.roel 651 00:37:02.579 --> 00:37:09.429 at gmail.com. That's ron.roel at gmail.com. Now back to 45 Forward. 652 00:37:13.030 --> 00:37:15.750 Thanks for coming back, folks. Once again, I'm talking with 653 00:37:15.849 --> 00:37:19.730 Mark Miller, a topic expert in retirement planning. And before 654 00:37:19.769 --> 00:37:22.389 the break, we were talking about Medicare, and I was 655 00:37:22.449 --> 00:37:26.380 just thinking that for many of us, if we're in 656 00:37:26.420 --> 00:37:30.039 our 40s or 50s, you might think, well, I'm far 657 00:37:30.139 --> 00:37:34.719 from Medicare age. Do I need to know about this now? 658 00:37:34.860 --> 00:37:37.960 And one of the things that I experienced in my 659 00:37:38.019 --> 00:37:41.840 own life was that There's almost a preview period when, 660 00:37:42.219 --> 00:37:45.449 especially if you're taking care of your parents, you know, 661 00:37:45.510 --> 00:37:48.110 helping to take care of them, you may find yourself 662 00:37:48.150 --> 00:37:50.909 all of a sudden being heavily involved in their care. 663 00:37:51.010 --> 00:37:53.750 So it's helpful to know what Medicare is about because 664 00:37:53.789 --> 00:37:56.349 you're often working with them to make decisions about things. 665 00:37:56.449 --> 00:38:00.789 So having said that, let's just talk a bit about, 666 00:38:01.349 --> 00:38:06.269 with Mark, about long-term care. how this fits into retirement 667 00:38:06.369 --> 00:38:08.670 planning and saving and what, what your needs are and 668 00:38:08.690 --> 00:38:09.670 what you need to know about that. 669 00:38:11.289 --> 00:38:13.409 Right. Well, I guess the thing to say here, Ron, 670 00:38:13.489 --> 00:38:17.260 is that, you know, long-term care, I think from my 671 00:38:17.320 --> 00:38:19.679 perspective is sort of one of the biggest holes in 672 00:38:19.699 --> 00:38:24.159 the safety net of retirement security. It's the piece of 673 00:38:24.199 --> 00:38:27.119 the puzzle that we haven't figured out very well. You know, 674 00:38:27.159 --> 00:38:31.030 we have these commercially available long-term care insurance policies that 675 00:38:31.070 --> 00:38:36.219 have never become very popular. You know, maybe, maybe 10% 676 00:38:36.219 --> 00:38:40.710 of the eligible, the target population, let's say, for those 677 00:38:40.769 --> 00:38:43.150 policies have bought them, and that would be sort of 678 00:38:43.269 --> 00:38:49.010 probably households over age 50. You know, Medicaid is actually 679 00:38:49.050 --> 00:38:54.380 the largest funder of long-term care supports and services. Generally speaking, 680 00:38:54.440 --> 00:38:58.699 it's probably a little less than half of all long-term 681 00:38:58.739 --> 00:39:03.420 care is funded out of Medicaid, but It requires people 682 00:39:03.480 --> 00:39:06.860 spending down their assets or being low income to receive 683 00:39:07.559 --> 00:39:14.619 those benefits. And then some wealthier households, they basically self-insure. 684 00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:19.280 If they've been able to set aside significant savings, they 685 00:39:19.300 --> 00:39:22.309 just say, well, some of that is for long-term care. 686 00:39:22.369 --> 00:39:25.050 So none of that is really what I would call 687 00:39:25.130 --> 00:39:29.349 super optimal. From a public policy standpoint, I think the 688 00:39:29.389 --> 00:39:32.320 smart approach that I wish we would take would be 689 00:39:32.360 --> 00:39:35.539 to build a basic level of coverage into Medicare. And 690 00:39:35.559 --> 00:39:38.579 a lot of people don't understand that Medicare doesn't really 691 00:39:38.659 --> 00:39:42.710 fund the long-term care. Medicare will pay for up to 692 00:39:42.710 --> 00:39:48.190 100 days in a skilled nursing facility following a hospitalization. Um, 693 00:39:49.940 --> 00:39:52.500 But that's it. It's not really for assisted living or 694 00:39:53.019 --> 00:39:59.039 more longer-term care. So that's one thing to understand. Another 695 00:39:59.119 --> 00:40:00.880 point I just want to mention briefly is that I 696 00:40:01.219 --> 00:40:07.090 think we're probably on the brink of a significant rethink 697 00:40:07.150 --> 00:40:10.610 of how long-term care services are provided in the country 698 00:40:11.369 --> 00:40:14.369 as a result of the pandemic and the really horrific 699 00:40:15.130 --> 00:40:18.860 levels of illness and death we've seen in nursing homes 700 00:40:18.969 --> 00:40:23.630 and long-term care facilities as a result of COVID. Not 701 00:40:23.650 --> 00:40:26.409 to say that they're going away, but there has been 702 00:40:26.429 --> 00:40:29.909 a really sharp dip in admissions to those facilities this 703 00:40:29.929 --> 00:40:33.110 year for not terribly surprising reasons. And a lot of 704 00:40:33.130 --> 00:40:36.250 the experts I talk to say that they think that 705 00:40:36.309 --> 00:40:39.929 pattern will continue. So there's going to be more effort 706 00:40:39.969 --> 00:40:43.440 by people to figure out ways to age in place, 707 00:40:43.500 --> 00:40:48.219 stay in their homes, receive whatever support and services they 708 00:40:48.340 --> 00:40:51.960 can at home rather than going to institutional settings, which 709 00:40:52.420 --> 00:40:55.099 can be less expensive than an institutional setting. It all 710 00:40:55.119 --> 00:40:59.679

depends on what exactly your situation is from a healthcare standpoint. 711 00:40:59.739 --> 00:41:02.480 So I think we're looking at a kind of evolving, 712 00:41:03.280 --> 00:41:08.329 changing situation in the years ahead. But I think the 713 00:41:08.349 --> 00:41:11.710 way it all sort of nets out is it can 714 00:41:11.750 --> 00:41:14.969 be a significant risk that people have difficulty figuring out 715 00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:17.599 how to plan for it's, you know, it's kind of 716 00:41:17.639 --> 00:41:20.809 a roll of the dice, not all households or not 717 00:41:20.869 --> 00:41:25.449 all people are going to need lengthy periods of, of 718 00:41:25.510 --> 00:41:29.469 institutional care, but a small percentage of the population will 719 00:41:29.510 --> 00:41:33.409 have a lengthy long-term care need. Yeah. Yeah. 720 00:41:33.429 --> 00:41:35.559 I think it's something we really haven't thought about. I mean, 721 00:41:35.900 --> 00:41:38.920 with the, the longevity bonuses, like, well, this is great, 722 00:41:39.039 --> 00:41:41.340 but at some point I think the figure is something 723 00:41:41.360 --> 00:41:44.019 like two thirds of all people, you know, the past six, 724 00:41:44.500 --> 00:41:47.349 age 65 are going to need some sort of long-term care, 725 00:41:47.750 --> 00:41:49.190 as you mentioned. 726 00:41:49.469 --> 00:41:51.489 I'm sorry. I was going to say the funding options 727 00:41:51.550 --> 00:41:57.090 for it. I mentioned saving. One thing is a possibility 728 00:41:57.130 --> 00:41:59.409 is if you are able to delay your Social Security 729 00:41:59.449 --> 00:42:02.900 claim and boost those benefits, that provides a higher check 730 00:42:02.940 --> 00:42:05.539 coming in every month that could be used to offset 731 00:42:05.599 --> 00:42:09.460 a long-term care need down the road. Social Security benefits 732 00:42:09.500 --> 00:42:12.840 are adjusted every year for inflation, so that's a good thing. 733 00:42:13.650 --> 00:42:18.789 If you expect to receive a defined benefit pension, that 734 00:42:18.869 --> 00:42:21.869 income could go against a long-term care need. Then there 735 00:42:21.889 --> 00:42:26.269 are the commercial policies that are worth at least, I 736 00:42:26.289 --> 00:42:29.949 would say, considering. So those are some ways. The other 737 00:42:30.030 --> 00:42:33.659 is you could consider an annuity. So for example, a 738 00:42:33.719 --> 00:42:37.119 deferred annuity that you buy at age 60 but doesn't 739 00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:40.760 begin paying benefits till age 75 or 80. That's a 740 00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:44.320 less expensive annuity than an immediate annuity because you're allowing 741 00:42:44.360 --> 00:42:46.320 the insurance company to hang on to your money for 742 00:42:46.360 --> 00:42:49.730 a while. But, you know, a deferred annuity that starts 743 00:42:49.789 --> 00:42:52.130 paying at 80 also could be a way to fund 744 00:42:52.150 --> 00:42:55.289 a future long-term care need with the flexibility that if 745 00:42:55.329 --> 00:42:57.849 you don't need the long-term care, you've got some additional 746 00:42:57.889 --> 00:42:58.570 income coming in. 747 00:42:58.909 --> 00:43:01.550 Yeah, as you mentioned, this is a work in progress 748 00:43:01.610 --> 00:43:04.230 and there's a lot of holes in the system. But 749 00:43:04.269 --> 00:43:07.000 I know that there's legislation now in Congress that's working 750 00:43:07.059 --> 00:43:10.949 its way through to set up some, you know, potential... um, 751 00:43:11.130 --> 00:43:14.530 you know, long-term plan for the, for the country, some, 752 00:43:14.630 --> 00:43:16.429 some basis for coverage, but I think you're right that 753 00:43:16.449 --> 00:43:18.630 this is going to end up being part of our 754 00:43:18.710 --> 00:43:20.349 social insurance plan going forward. 755 00:43:20.369 --> 00:43:22.809 I mean, I think one of the big problems with 756 00:43:22.829 --> 00:43:25.239 long-term care insurance is that, uh, again, it's just a 757 00:43:25.280 --> 00:43:27.739 human behavioral thing. People don't want to grapple with it. 758 00:43:27.860 --> 00:43:30.500 It's not something you want to think about. People are 759 00:43:30.519 --> 00:43:33.480 too interested in talking about at a young age. Uh, 760 00:43:33.500 --> 00:43:35.000 it's the kind of thing that's easy to just push 761 00:43:35.059 --> 00:43:38.440 down the road. So the good thing about building it into, uh, 762 00:43:39.369 --> 00:43:41.469 our social insurance system is let's say you had a 763 00:43:41.550 --> 00:43:45.579 small payroll tax that you started paying when you begin 764 00:43:45.619 --> 00:43:48.239 your working life that was just being contributed to a 765 00:43:48.260 --> 00:43:51.679 long-term care fund. It'd be automatic. You'd most likely never 766 00:43:51.719 --> 00:43:54.619 even think about it, but yet it would be there. 767 00:43:54.920 --> 00:43:58.530 And to fund some base level of a long-term care 768 00:43:58.570 --> 00:44:02.510 benefit down the road, I think you would do that 769 00:44:02.670 --> 00:44:04.630 as sort of a base level benefit and then give 770 00:44:04.670 --> 00:44:08.070 people the option to add supplemental coverage if they needed 771 00:44:08.139 --> 00:44:11.900 or wanted it. would be a really very sane approach 772 00:44:11.920 --> 00:44:13.079 to this whole thing. Right. 773 00:44:14.059 --> 00:44:15.780 We don't have that much time left, Mark, but in 774 00:44:15.820 --> 00:44:17.119 the time we do have left, I wonder if we 775 00:44:17.139 --> 00:44:20.079 could talk a little bit about housing options and transitions 776 00:44:20.159 --> 00:44:23.619 and just how that affects your retirement needs and concerns. 777 00:44:24.300 --> 00:44:27.510 Right. Well, I think for a lot of people, when 778 00:44:27.530 --> 00:44:30.690 they do their retirement planning, if they do retirement planning, 779 00:44:30.710 --> 00:44:32.989 a lot

of people don't really do it, but it's 780 00:44:33.070 --> 00:44:37.159 all about the focus is on the income side of 781 00:44:37.179 --> 00:44:38.780 the ledger you know what am i doing to either 782 00:44:38.860 --> 00:44:41.639 save or maximize my social security what income can i 783 00:44:41.739 --> 00:44:44.920 expect without focusing all that much on the budget side 784 00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:48.179 excuse me the spending side of the of the ledger 785 00:44:48.840 --> 00:44:52.269 and um you know some spending items are outside of 786 00:44:52.329 --> 00:44:54.510 our control you know you're going to need to pay 787 00:44:54.550 --> 00:44:57.730 the utilities and pay for food and transportation and the 788 00:44:57.789 --> 00:45:01.250 like uh but you know housing is an element that 789 00:45:01.510 --> 00:45:05.230 there may be some opportunity to control cost either by 790 00:45:05.250 --> 00:45:08.800 um Let's say if you own your home and most 791 00:45:08.980 --> 00:45:11.159 of the majority of people who reach this age, you know, 792 00:45:11.199 --> 00:45:15.670 do you could let's say your your numbers aren't adding up. So, 793 00:45:15.829 --> 00:45:20.369 you know, moving to something smaller, less expensive could be 794 00:45:20.590 --> 00:45:25.710 worth considering. You know, let's say you're living in something 795 00:45:25.789 --> 00:45:28.630 relatively expensive in the in an urban core area because 796 00:45:28.670 --> 00:45:30.969 it was convenient to where you needed to be for work. 797 00:45:32.070 --> 00:45:35.030 a move an hour or two away from that urban 798 00:45:35.070 --> 00:45:37.929 core might save you a bunch of money. You might 799 00:45:37.949 --> 00:45:40.909 even be able to extract some equity and sock it 800 00:45:40.949 --> 00:45:44.789 away in that transaction. So for a lot of households, 801 00:45:44.889 --> 00:45:49.269 housing is one of the most important accumulated savings, if 802 00:45:49.309 --> 00:45:53.789 you will, or asset types. And so tapping it in retirement, 803 00:45:53.829 --> 00:45:57.110 if it becomes necessary to do so, could make all 804 00:45:57.130 --> 00:46:00.250 the sense in the world. And so the kind of, 805 00:46:01.059 --> 00:46:03.739 transition I just described, I think is the most straightforward 806 00:46:03.780 --> 00:46:06.800 way to do it, assuming you're open to it from 807 00:46:06.840 --> 00:46:09.300 a lifestyle standpoint. And some people just may not want 808 00:46:09.340 --> 00:46:12.409 to do it. The other way you can consider doing 809 00:46:12.449 --> 00:46:14.730 it is through what's called a reverse mortgage, which is 810 00:46:14.769 --> 00:46:17.389 a way to sort of tap into your income through 811 00:46:17.429 --> 00:46:21.889 a reverse loan. I'm not a huge fan of them. 812 00:46:21.949 --> 00:46:23.829 I think they're kind of expensive. They come with a 813 00:46:23.849 --> 00:46:26.949 lot of fees and there can be some risks associated 814 00:46:26.989

--> 00:46:29.869 with it. I think they're They can be difficult products 815 00:46:29.889 --> 00:46:32.010 for a lot of people to understand, but it is 816 00:46:32.050 --> 00:46:35.880 an option. But frankly, very few people take advantage of it. 817 00:46:35.909 --> 00:46:39.110 I think psychologically, people at the point of retirement are 818 00:46:39.150 --> 00:46:43.860 not looking to take on new debt relationships, if you will, 819 00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:45.860 even though this is sort of an upside down loan. 820 00:46:46.420 --> 00:46:48.480 It just is not appealing to folks. I think people 821 00:46:48.500 --> 00:46:52.880 are looking for simplicity and unburdening themselves of financial obligations 822 00:46:52.940 --> 00:46:56.010 and complications in retirement. But I do think that housing 823 00:46:56.070 --> 00:46:58.550 is something worth considering, a move to a less expensive 824 00:46:59.010 --> 00:47:03.039 location or a downsizing move, maybe something you want to do. 825 00:47:03.119 --> 00:47:05.519 There could be other reasons you want to change your 826 00:47:05.539 --> 00:47:08.500 housing situation. If you want to get into something that 827 00:47:09.440 --> 00:47:11.699 involves not having to climb a lot of steps, for example. 828 00:47:12.219 --> 00:47:15.889 So I think it's an important dimension that's worth giving 829 00:47:15.929 --> 00:47:16.829 some serious thought to. 830 00:47:16.849 --> 00:47:20.929 Right, right. The last piece is also just, we just 831 00:47:20.989 --> 00:47:24.159 touched on it, but just in terms of along with housing, 832 00:47:24.199 --> 00:47:29.869 sort of downsizing your career. I guess there are also 833 00:47:30.110 --> 00:47:34.949 financial and psychological implications for that too. But any thoughts 834 00:47:35.030 --> 00:47:38.630 that you have in terms of how people might think 835 00:47:38.670 --> 00:47:41.030 about it? I know you're not a financial planner in 836 00:47:41.070 --> 00:47:43.929 that sense, but how do people think about how that 837 00:47:43.989 --> 00:47:44.409 fits in? 838 00:47:45.389 --> 00:47:49.179 Well, the timing of retirement and the transition from work 839 00:47:49.219 --> 00:47:53.789 to retirement is one of the most critical things turning 840 00:47:53.849 --> 00:47:59.139 points in determining the success of your retirement plan, whether 841 00:47:59.159 --> 00:48:02.179 you're able to work to the point you plan to. 842 00:48:02.739 --> 00:48:04.860 So a lot of people will say, oh, yeah, I 843 00:48:05.659 --> 00:48:07.619 haven't saved enough, but no worries. I'm just going to 844 00:48:07.639 --> 00:48:12.000 keep working forever. Well, that could be a good aspiration, 845 00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:16.070 but it's not really a plan because the data tell 846 00:48:16.110 --> 00:48:20.429 us that about half of people, working people, wind up 847 00:48:20.489 --> 00:48:24.570 retiring earlier than they planned. either due to a job 848 00:48:24.630 -->

00:48:27.429 loss or it could be a health problem or they 849 00:48:27.650 --> 00:48:30.190 need to take care of a spouse or other loved one, 850 00:48:31.269 --> 00:48:33.449 or even just plain burnout. People just kind of get 851 00:48:33.469 --> 00:48:35.730 to the point where they can't hack it anymore. So 852 00:48:36.110 --> 00:48:38.570 I always say it's a good aspiration, but not necessarily 853 00:48:38.610 --> 00:48:42.300 a plan. But it is important to understand just what 854 00:48:42.340 --> 00:48:45.340 an important leverage point it can be because every additional 855 00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:48.960 year of work could help you find a delay. And 856 00:48:49.239 --> 00:48:52.280 that social security claim we talked about earlier, It could 857 00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:57.579 mean more years on a employer-funded health insurance plan, which 858 00:48:57.619 --> 00:49:00.480 is generally gonna be a little less expensive than Medicare. 859 00:49:01.199 --> 00:49:04.400 It means potentially more years of the ability to save 860 00:49:04.440 --> 00:49:08.050 for retirement. And especially in the later years, sometimes people 861 00:49:08.110 --> 00:49:11.429 are able to step that up if other obligations have 862 00:49:11.869 --> 00:49:15.739 fallen away, like for example, paying for your kids' college tuition. 863 00:49:16.500 --> 00:49:20.539 And lastly, it just means fewer net years of living 864 00:49:20.619 --> 00:49:25.300 from savings and more years living off of income. So 865 00:49:25.320 --> 00:49:28.090 it's one of the most important leverage points if you 866 00:49:28.150 --> 00:49:31.130 can pull off working a little longer. And I met 867 00:49:31.190 --> 00:49:33.050 one of these who says work forever. I don't believe 868 00:49:33.070 --> 00:49:34.750 in that at all, unless that's what you wanna do. 869 00:49:34.809 --> 00:49:38.320 But even just two or three years, can make an 870 00:49:38.389 --> 00:49:40.869 enormous difference. And if it's not possible to work full-time, 871 00:49:40.929 --> 00:49:43.369 given the way the economy is right now, you know, 872 00:49:43.429 --> 00:49:46.769 even finding some, some part-time income could really make a 873 00:49:46.789 --> 00:49:47.289 big difference. 874 00:49:47.769 --> 00:49:48.670 That's great advice. 875 00:49:48.809 --> 00:49:48.989 Right. 876 00:49:49.889 --> 00:49:51.510 Well, I know there's much more to talk about, but 877 00:49:51.570 --> 00:49:52.809 I think we're going to have to leave it there 878 00:49:53.340 --> 00:49:55.260 for today, Mark, and have to invite you back for 879 00:49:55.280 --> 00:49:56.519 another session with us. 880 00:49:56.860 --> 00:49:59.320 Um, I really enjoyed it, Ron. And I, uh, thanks 881 00:49:59.340 --> 00:50:00.219 so much for the invitation. 882 00:50:00.420 --> 00:50:03.900 Yeah. I want to just, uh, give a few minutes to, uh, uh, 883 00:50:04.619 --> 00:50:06.760 let people know how they can reach you, Mark. Um, 884 00:50:08.139 --> 00:50:12.340 do is just marketretirementadvise.com. Is that the best way? 885 00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:13.900 Yeah. An easy way to do it is just go 886 00:50:13.920 --> 00:50:17.760 to the website, retirementadvise.com. There's a contact us form there. 887 00:50:18.969 --> 00:50:21.610 And I also wanted to mention the newsletter, which is 888 00:50:21.630 --> 00:50:25.309 I put out weekly for subscribers and sort of more 889 00:50:25.349 --> 00:50:28.710 occasionally for people on the free list, but also wanted 890 00:50:28.750 --> 00:50:32.239 to make a special offer for your listeners of if 891 00:50:32.280 --> 00:50:37.550 you'd like to subscribe to For half off for 12 months, 892 00:50:37.590 --> 00:50:40.309 you can visit, there's a URL that we set up 893 00:50:40.329 --> 00:50:48.139 for a special offer for Ron's listeners, which is at retirementrevised.substack.com 894 00:50:48.679 --> 00:50:56.400 forward slash 45 forward. So it's retirementrevised.substack.com forward slash 45 forward. 895 00:50:56.460 --> 00:50:59.599 And you'll be, click that link, you'll go to an 896 00:50:59.679 --> 00:51:01.719 offer for half off for a year. Right. 897 00:51:02.230 --> 00:51:04.880 That's great. And I'll also, Mark, have that information on 898 00:51:04.929 --> 00:51:06.920 my Rebel Resources site and a clip on the 45 899 00:51:06.920 --> 00:51:08.119 Forward tab. 900 00:51:08.320 --> 00:51:11.099 Great. Yeah, which I typically do in the newsletter is 901 00:51:11.739 --> 00:51:13.800 include links to all the work I'm doing for news 902 00:51:13.900 --> 00:51:17.400 outlets like Reuters and the New York Times and Morningstar, 903 00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:21.030 as well as links to these retirement guides that I publish, 904 00:51:21.130 --> 00:51:23.869 as well as just kind of curated links to other 905 00:51:24.510 --> 00:51:27.250 interesting articles and research that I'm seeing all over the internet. 906 00:51:27.269 --> 00:51:30.420 I'm constantly sifting through just about everything that comes out 907 00:51:30.460 --> 00:51:32.800 and the stuff that I think is particularly good and interesting. 908 00:51:32.920 --> 00:51:36.000 I bring to the attention of my newsletter. Right. Okay. 909 00:51:36.039 --> 00:51:38.920 So great. Thanks again, Mark. And be sure everyone to 910 00:51:38.940 --> 00:51:41.639 join me again next Monday, 12 noon Pacific time, 3 911 00:51:41.639 --> 00:51:44.469 PM Eastern time. And I'll be talking with Carol Wallman, 912 00:51:44.590 --> 00:51:48.489 a gerontologist who was a passionate fighter against ageism and 913 00:51:49.090 --> 00:51:51.730 tell us how to thrive, not just survive as we age. 914 00:51:52.369 --> 00:51:55.389 So thanks again, have a safe and productive week. See 915 00:51:55.409 --> 00:51:55.889 you next time.