KOPYA NG SALIN 🔗
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Welcome everybody to Crystal Kyle and friends.
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Today is just Kyle and friend, and I'm very happy to be joined by the wonderful journalist Abby Martin.
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Thanks for joining us.
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Me.
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Thank you so much for having me, Kyle.
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This is awesome.
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I know.
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It is my pleasure.
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I'm really excited to talk to you, especially what went down this week.
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Before we get to the midterms, let me just start with this, though, because um we were texting about this before.
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Uh Russell Brand.
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Guilty.
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Yeah.
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Guilty.
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What's your reaction there?
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It's a glorious day in the neighborhood, man.
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I mean, look, this guy tried to weasel his way into alternative media circles.
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So it was it was especially kind of just absurd for me to see him be welcomed with open arms and be to be taken seriously as like this huckster with this newfound religiosity and stuff like that.
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So I saw through his bullshit from the get and just watching the Channel 4 documentary, there's no fucking way, man.
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Like God knows how many victims there are.
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And while this trial was going on, two more have come forward to the police.
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So, you know, I hopefully this is the beginning of a long stint in prison where he belongs.
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His pivot to your point about the media was so aggressive.
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Like he went from, you know, being like this left-wing guy who records videos and posts them to literally doing the whole like, I found Jesus and I'm getting baptized in a river and I'm wearing like the garments of Jesus.
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And it's like, you are pouring it on way too hard.
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But I think that stems from like these are the only people that will accept me after what I've done.
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You know what I'm saying?
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Like these are the biggest, most gullible people in the country who, as long as you say the things they want, like be all in, right?
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And so I think that's what it stemmed from is that this he knows, like, I've seen he saw other people run the same trick.
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He saw Dave Rubin run the same trick, he saw J Dor run the same trick, he saw you know the why I left the left thing, and he just And he was he was at Mar-a-Lago not that long ago.
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He
Load full transcript
he did an event, Abby, with RFK Jr., uh JD Vance, and it was like three months ago.
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I'm not even kidding.
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I mean, it's unbelievable.
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He was just he opened for like Tucker Carlson's whole tour, like doing the big, you know, sermon, I guess.
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I guess he's like a pastor now, so you know he's doing he's doing the whole opening religious prayer and all that for Tucker.
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It's it's shameless.
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The audacity is, you know, but but these grifters, that's all they have.
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I mean, they they double down, triple down, and like you said, they know that they will be welcomed into the the movement of pedophiles and rapists and sexual offenders.
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And and indeed he was.
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D did you see the uh Piers Morgan interview where I just actually just re-reposted it?
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Can I go back to asking you a question about your Bible?
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Yes, if you want to.
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Thank you.
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That was that the one you took into court?
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Yeah, the very one.
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Okay.
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What was your thinking of taking it into court?
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And what you were seeing looking at some passages, what were the relevant passages for you?
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Alright, thank you for asking me.
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Thank you.
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I didn't hurt, did I?
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A little bit.
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Um, it was this from Osion.
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You're right, where did say, you know, be chill.
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It's great.
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They don't like that, do they, in the old gallery, but rather just said it's a higher spot.
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This is from Isaiah.
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The word that the verse that I was looking at that day was not this.
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I can't actually I can't actually find the verse that I that I had that day.
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But this is good enough.
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I was just I literally I It was just a brutality of letting him uh Piers Morgan, letting him sit there and look for this verse that he couldn't think about and he carries his Bible to him.
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He's looking at it in court like it's the most precious thing in his life.
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And to people who do believe it is the most precious thing, but you would think he would at least have some inkling of what he was reading that day from the prophet Isaiah.
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And it was just crazy.
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That moment seemed like it took forever.
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And Peter sort of let him sit there when he couldn't figure out what Bible verse he was reading or etc.
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Which led me to believe it was just a gimmick, he was carrying it as a prop.
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You know, I'm in trouble now, so I'm gonna hook myself in religious language in the hopes that people will think that I've changed when if there's a true change.
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Especially when you deal with people when they're new believers, they are really fired up and they could give you Bible verses somewhat like the uh they know it like they know the back of their hand.
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That that's what happens in new conversions.
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I I go on your Twitter feed like every like every other day because it just it it keeps me alive.
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And I was just wa I was watching that clip and Mike was like, Aren't you supposed to be like preparing for an interview?
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I was like, no, no, I just have to like watch this clip again where it's just like oh hold on.
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I I mean why why bring that around like a prop if you can't even cite one passage?
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It's like it's it's not rocket science, dude.
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Watching a snake oil salesman get caught that aggressively was like the most rewarding thing I've ever seen in my life.
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That with him like going through the pages and you hear the noises of the pages turning, and it's like it feels like it goes on for an hour.
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Oh my god.
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Just dead air.
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Yeah.
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Dead air for like a minute.
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I actually feel bad.
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Me and Crystal, before he went psycho and went right wing, we actually had him on the show.
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And this was after an interview he did with Candace Owens that we saw, where he like actually aggressively debated Candace Owens, and I thought he did a good job.
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So we had him on the show, and now you know we look back at that and we're like, oh, I want to take a shower, knowing that I interviewed that guy, and it was like relatively positive, knowing that the entire time he was like, he's like a textbook predator.
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They have uh to the documentary you pointed out, they have text messages where he's basically like, sorry, I raped you, mate.
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Like into literally.
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Sorry, that was very selfish of me.
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Oh, I'm so sorry.
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No means no.
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Oh my god.
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I mean, I just saw a clip of him saying, Yeah, you pretend like
you're gay, get disarm the women, and then boom, they're pregnant once you like trick them.
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I was like, Did they play this in the trial?
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Oh, did you it the Jimmy Savile clip out?
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I don't know if you've seen that one where he's on radio with Jimmy Savile.
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Now, Jimmy Savile, for people who don't know, is like a notorious pedophile.
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He had like a BBC show forever, and the entire time was like raping little kids left and right.
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And you see Russell Brandon him having banter, and Russell's like, I'll serve you up my assistant on a platter, Jimmy, if you'd like that.
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And he's like, Chip chip, cheerio, very good, I'm a rapist, you know.
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Oh my god, bro.
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Well, I always think like if this, if I did this, you know, if I just like gallivanted around and like just got undressed, like in the BBC break room, and just like put my vagina in the face of like some like young male intern.
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It's just like it's just insanely unfathomable, like the shit that this man was doing.
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And just taken seriously, get like like ex excelled, you know, uh ascended in the ranks of these institutions.
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I mean, at Channel 4, at BBC.
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It's just it it's really mind-blowing.
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Yeah, power fucks people up, man.
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Like it's kind of crazy.
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If somebody gets power, their like true self comes out, and some people just immediately take advantage of everything around them, and they act like they're entitled to everything.
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And it just, I don't know, it's gross.
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These people are gross.
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I want to take a shower, even talking about them.
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I know.
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I mean, and that's the problem with the whole system today.
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It's like people like libertarians and stuff will be like, they're just bad apples, we need to get the right people in.
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It's crowny.
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Yeah.
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It's like, no, no, this is the system rewards this kind of psychopathy, this this lack of empathy.
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This is what the characteristics that that are rewarded in capitalism.
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So it's like, of course, we have Trump as president.
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Of course, Russell Brand was this famous celebrity that was untouched.
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Like, these are the people who are the powerful people who are protected in a system like this.
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It's absolutely sick and depraved.
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So I just watched your documentary last night.
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And uh, man, it is a powerful, it's a very powerful documentary.
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So before we get into the midterms as well, just tell everybody a little bit about your documentary, because it's it's it's big.
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Yeah, it's a big one.
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I mean, it's uh it's a big one.
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Uh look, six years ago when we started off on it it's basically our Odyssey.
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You know, it's it's it was a six-year journey across the planet trying to quantify the scope and scale of military pollution, US-led military pollution.
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And it's basically what we realize is that it's unquantifiable.
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Every stone unturned is another documentary.
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It just became so massive.
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We went into it trying to just expose the fact that military emissions are not counted in these annual climate conferences.
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The COP is going on right now in Turkey, COP31.
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And it was just so shocking that these global leaders convene every year, pat themselves on the back about their environmental stewardship and curbing climate emissions with these, you know, carbon trade schemes and all this stuff, and they're not actually counting emissions.
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They don't count the military and they never have.
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And so the US paved the way for this exemption, and it's been, you know, rooted ever since.
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Paris was the voluntary mandate that you can voluntarily submit your military exempt uh uh emissions.
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So we started off just wanting to expose that, and then it just became so big, Kyle, in typical Empire Files form.
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We wanted it to be this holistic systemic totality, right?
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So, so so basically confronting these massive exit central crises that no one really wants to talk about.
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Even though it should be on the nightly news that the fact that the military is poisoning our water supply in every single base at home and abroad.
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So, uh, in the documentary, I wrote down a quote that I thought was powerful.
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You said, the US military is a protection unit for resource extraction.
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And that I was like, damn, that's a devastating description.
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And you go on to explain how like explain this for people.
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It's like the first iteration at like at the beginning of the US military, one of the things they did this for was like the fur trade.
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Yeah, so so yeah, basically Manifest Destiny has always been synonymous with the conquest of nature.
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That's actually another name for it.
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The first military general, General General Bradford, said that nature had to be destroyed for God.
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Um, you know, indigenous people were always seen as basically the wild Cretans, synonymous with just the complete just wild landscape that needed to be killed, slaughtered, and extracted.
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The first extraterritorial military bases, of course, paved by genocide, were to protect the fur trade.
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They basically just like killed a slew of beavers and stuff just to sell beaver skin hats and stuff like that for Europeans and almost like drove them to extinction.
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Like that that's insane.
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And then the first overseas bases were to protect coal, which then transitioned to oil.
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So it's always been this self-fulfilling prophecy to justify and necessitate the expanse of the military, and then to maintain that expanse, you need to continue to um extract more fossil fuels.
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So this has always been rooted in the philosophy of the US military, and it's always been the mandate essentially to secure these resources around the world.
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It's like the uh the where the term banana republic comes from.
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Like, how many people do you think know where that term comes from?
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Right.
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Where it's like the US military was literally trying to steal bananas.
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I forget which country it was from, but South American countries steal the bananas, and that's where we got the term banana republic.
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Yeah, dole, like the literally like the banana company, dole.
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It's like that's right.
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I feel like we're back uh it during that era.
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Like, even worse, I feel like we're like back during the days of Christopher Columbus, except now just overlap with high technology.
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So I actually watching it.
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I I wanted to ask you about that because in your documentary, you talk about like the congenital birth defects from the chemical weapons that we used in Iraq, which people don't I I mean, I cover this stuff all the time, and even I forgot about all of the birth defects in Iraq because we used uh illegal chemical weapons.
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You talk about Camp Lejeune in the US, where there was poisoned water, and the U.S.
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government effectively like murdered a bunch of babies.
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They hid the fact that this water was poisoned, people drank it, so there were like babies being born that live for a day, two days, and then they would die.
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People have all sorts of health issues as a direct result of that.
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So my question is: do you think Americans are sort of like waking up to the evil death machine that is our military under Trump?
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Since Trump sort of rips the mask off of empire and almost lays it out bare, like brags about imperialism, brags about colonialism, you know, they commit war crimes that are just so uh egregious that you have like my mom is talking to me about, you know, the bombing of the Menob school in Iran and she's not even all that political.
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And do you think though that Trump has like woken up the average American to like, oh, this is like really evil and we should not do this?
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Yeah.
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No, absolutely.
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I think we're in this historic moment that I've never seen.
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I'm 42, and you know, this is this is incredibly momentous, the fact that Trump has explicitly laid bare the demands and mandates of U.S.
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Empire and the dictates, and it's all for fossil fuel extraction.
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It's all to maintain and pr and preserve imperial hegemony.
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It's literally articulated by him.
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I mean, he had all the oil barons in the White House alongside Tucker Carlson, of course, after they seize Venezuela's oil, they're all applauding.
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When he first got into office, he said, I'm the arms salesman in chief.
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He's just surrounded by the defense contractor CEOs.
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I mean, it and literally just nakedly pillaging and plundering the earth, Venezuela, Iran.
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It's so explicit.
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There's no hiding behind the pretense of some benevolent empire spreading human rights and democracy.
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This rehabilitated notion of the US and the CIA and stuff, it's completely demolished.
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They've fucking demolished it.
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Any shred of credibility that they've had now under Trump's second term.
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But I wanted to, you know, I wanted to point to the fact that the documentary, this is the incubation period, right?
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This is the neoliberal doctrine that led to Trump's second term.
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And like you said, the military, it's very important to look at the military.
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We we've rightfully pointed to oil corporations, big agriculture, all these things as the perpetrators of the climate collapse, but there's one enforcement mechanism that
dominates the planet and enforces those those power structures to dominate, right?
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And that is the US military.
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They go around the planet and they're the ones with violence, enforced by violence, to allow and pave the way for oil corporations to run roughshot over the earth.
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So you and I both came of age politically during the the Bush regime, and that really helped sort of like inform our politics in a way that I think kind of almost our entire generation feels like that.
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How would you compare what's happening now with the Bush regime?
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Because there was a time when in the past I used to say Trump's horrible, but George W.
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Bush was worse.
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Now I think that's flipped.
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Now I think if anything, George W.
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Bush is, or excuse me, Trump is George W.
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Bush on steroids and human growth hormone.
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How would you compare the two eras?
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Yeah, no, I I agree, man.
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I mean, I I used to hate when people are like, oh, like I miss Bush.
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And I'm like, no, Bush is a fucking psychopathic, like war criminal who led, you know, led us into this disaster.
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Trump is different because he he it's not only what Bush was, but it's taking the corruption to stratospheric levels where it is so naked and explicit, alongside the fact that he's, you know, he's a been accused of rape by how many fucking like 30 women.
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It's like a serial rapist, uh uh the most corrupt Mo effort in the fucking planet.
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The Elon Musk stuff, big tech.
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I mean, basically being the chaos president where anyone with any sort of extremist agenda can attach it onto him, including the evangelical right with Mike Pence the first term, and now of course big tech the second term.
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So there's been so much damage.
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And then you couple on top of that the taking all the environmental protections being rolled back.
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Like it is just a free-for-all that I never thought that I would see.
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And of course, going for Iran, going for Cuba, going for Venezuela, Bush didn't even try to do that.
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And and not to give any credit to Bush.
00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:52.559
It's just how much worse it's gotten and how much more normalized it's become where they feel like they can do anything.
00:18:52.719 --> 00:18:54.879
And in fact, they have been able to get away with it.
00:18:54.959 --> 00:18:56.799
So why wouldn't they feel like they can do more?
00:18:57.199 --> 00:18:59.039
Yeah, I mean, that's such an important point, right?
00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:13.199
Is that probably the biggest mistake of Obama was not going after any Bush-era war criminals, not going after any of the Wall Street criminals who led to the Great Recession, subprime organs crisis in the Great Recession.
00:19:13.359 --> 00:19:23.839
And now this is this is the end result of that, is like Trump gets in there, and now he feels like war crimes, torture, illegal wars, it's literally just a matter of opinion.
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:28.399
Like, if I do it, you can disagree with it, but I'm still gonna do it, and there's gonna be no consequences.
00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:36.719
And I and I think that you really see this fervor now among the public of like, we can't let this stand.
00:19:36.879 --> 00:19:43.279
And maybe it's because of all the other like domestic laws that Trump is violating and how he's violating the Constitution and things of that nature.
00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:46.719
But do you agree with me that something feels different this time?
00:19:46.879 --> 00:19:54.959
That if Trump if Trump lives and pardons everybody, then uh we don't even have a country anymore if they get away with this crime screen.
00:19:55.119 --> 00:20:00.799
But if he like dies in office, which I think is actually maybe likely, then he can't pardon all the people.
00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:03.279
And then I think a lot of people are going to jail, don't you think?
00:20:03.439 --> 00:20:07.599
Like there actually is a chance that like Elon Musk's dumbass might be in prison when all said and done?
00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:08.559
I mean, I don't know.
00:20:08.639 --> 00:20:16.399
This is what my mom, my mom, the first term, she was just like, he's going any day now, like the paperwork's coming and he's going to prison, and then all of a sudden he gets re-elected.
00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:18.000
It's like after the insurrection.
00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:19.839
It's like, how how is this happening?
00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:27.439
So I don't have faith in the prosecutorial like advances of the fucking Democratic Party, lawyer up, all the shit.
00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:28.959
We've seen it before, like the first term.
00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:30.799
So I I'm scared, Kyle.
00:20:30.879 --> 00:20:31.439
I really am.
00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:32.639
But it does go back.
00:20:32.719 --> 00:20:36.319
Yes, I do think it's different now in terms of the public sentiment.
00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:42.559
Look, and I and I think it's displayed obviously with the fact that Trump didn't even have to like manufacture consent for the Iran war.
00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:46.000
They didn't have to manufacture consent because they don't care anymore.
00:20:46.159 --> 00:20:49.919
That's how detached the ruling class is from the electorate.
00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:53.359
They know that they don't even have to give us crumbs.
00:20:53.679 --> 00:21:07.759
Um, so so that kind of faltering of like the
propaganda matrix, that that fissure of like a consensus reality, people are just watching something that's like black is white on social media while they dictate to us something that's completely inverted, that's really different.
00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:11.119
You saw during the Bush administration all of the scandals that were the worst crimes.
00:21:11.199 --> 00:21:16.480
I mean, Abu Ghraib, um the Nasser Square massacre, all those things we found out about much later.
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:23.039
And there were uh, you know, like kind of show, not trials, but it was like a show saving face, right?
00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:30.000
There was sheep let out to for whatever the fuck the phrase is, like like people laid out to drive for those things.
00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:32.399
The Judith Miller mea culpa.
00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:34.240
Like there's been none of those things now.
00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:42.639
It's just the rapidity and scale and scope of war crimes are so rapid fire that it's hard to even absorb what's happening and react accordingly.
00:21:42.719 --> 00:21:47.839
And I think people, even though it's paralyzing to a certain extent, people really get it.
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:56.319
Like they get that it's not just gonna be they're not just gonna be placated with a another democratic leadership that is led by Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries.
00:21:56.399 --> 00:22:00.639
Like, we're not gonna be hoodwinked by hope and change again, just like we were with Obama.
00:22:00.719 --> 00:22:05.519
And like you said, Obama came to office with a supermajority, he didn't do a goddamn thing.
00:22:06.159 --> 00:22:08.399
He just thought that symbolically it was enough, right?
00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:08.799
Right.
00:22:08.959 --> 00:22:10.000
And then and then what does he do?
00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:17.759
He goes to expand the Afghanistan war, look forward, not backward, don't prosecute any war criminals, and in fact, destroy Libya under NATO.
00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:28.319
And and and I think foreign policy has always been a driving factor, even though we tend to get gaslit by the ruling class and the media establishment about how foreign policy doesn't play a role in any of this stuff.
00:22:28.399 --> 00:22:30.879
I think it really, really does, and it always has.
00:22:30.959 --> 00:22:36.719
And that's why Trump won the first time, and that's why Biden lost, or I mean Kamala lost this last time, as we know.
00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:40.399
Because the foreign policy ties in directly with the economy.
00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:43.119
They're not separate things, they're definitely connected.
00:22:43.199 --> 00:22:50.559
And you see this with the illegal war against Iran, the Strait of Hormuz being closed, gas prices go up, which means grocery prices go up, which means prices for everything go goes up.
00:22:50.719 --> 00:22:52.240
So, like, it matters a lot.
00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:59.359
I saw Bench Pierre and Mark Levin coping and saying, like, well, this definitely has nothing to do with the Iran war, because only four percent of the country said it's the main factor in their voting.
00:22:59.439 --> 00:23:01.039
And it's like, are you insane?
00:23:01.199 --> 00:23:03.599
This is like the core of what's going on here.
00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:12.079
But I wanted to ask you, um, you mentioned how like they didn't even bother to make the case on Iran, and that is so true.
00:23:12.399 --> 00:23:35.439
And I feel like there's gonna be like this is the hell that they're paying for that because it was so arrogant to just be like, Yeah, we're gonna do it, and we're not even gonna bother to do I mean for Iraq, they worked for two straight years lying relentlessly and saying Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9-11, you know, he was working with Osama bin Laden, and he's gonna maybe attack us.
00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:39.279
And you had people were genuinely like kind of scared on that front.
00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:41.599
We were being lied to the whole time, but they made the case.
00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:54.000
Trump didn't do it, and now you look at it, and like the numbers are like 26% of the country supports the war, which is 26% too high, of course, but like it's 26 like the Iraq war was like 80% supported when it started.
00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:58.159
We've never seen arrogance of this level, and now it's finally backfiring on them.
00:23:58.639 --> 00:24:12.559
Yeah, I mean, kidnapping a head of state, throwing them in prison with no, you know, chumped up charges, stealing their natural resources, asphyxiating our island neighbor who's done nothing but basically deploy international brigades of doctors like to help people.
00:24:12.639 --> 00:24:16.559
I mean, it's just it is so ludicrous and so belligerent.
00:24:16.879 --> 00:24:19.119
I I I can only hope that Americans see through it.
00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:20.399
And in fact, we know that they did.
00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:24.799
I don't know what the fuck Ben Shapiro's talking about, but we know that the Iran war was a deciding factor.
00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:35.359
In exit polling, I mean, I know that people don't really have the capacity with the way that our oligarchy is set up, that they don't have like a nuanced ballot box where they can say, this is why I'm voting blue.
00:24:35.439 --> 00:24:54.240
But like we know that there was a complete revulsion against the Iraq war, or I'm sorry, against the Iran war, against the Gaza genocide continuing, and against just this, this, like you said, just the arrogance of this ruling class to just say we could do the Epstein class, just to say we could do whatever we want with no consequences at all.
00:24:54.399 --> 00:24:57.519
And these tariffs affected everyone and everything.
00:24:57.759 --> 00:25:03.919
The smallest business owners, like train sets and joints at a weed store that I went to.
00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:06.399
It's like it's like everything was affected by these tariffs.
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:08.879
And so I I think that that also played a major role.
00:25:08.959 --> 00:25:13.839
And those are directly connected to the war on China and obviously Iran as well.
00:25:14.159 --> 00:25:14.639
Yeah.
00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:19.519
Uh here's here's a question for you, because I've gone back and forth on this, but I think I've settled somewhere now.
00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:24.000
Um it's the old, is Trump uniquely bad question?
00:25:24.159 --> 00:25:28.559
And I used to say, no, basically all the Republicans are the same and they're demons.
00:25:28.719 --> 00:25:47.839
But now I've actually come to the conclusion that in some ways he actually is uniquely bad for the simple reason that when you look at other people in this global far right movement, when they lose, they kinda are just gonna be they're like, All right, like Victor Orban, for example, he lost in Hungary and I was convinced he was gonna try some stop the steal bullshit.