KOPYA NG SALIN 🔗
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I know that benefits are a huge point of interest and pain in the ass for most small business owners for a couple of reasons.
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A, you have to shop around and find them and try to get the best deal, which is a challenge.
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Then you have to get your people signed up.
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Then you have to tell them how to use them.
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But you invest a lot of money in these benefits.
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And oftentimes, depending on the program you have, your employees might see the benefit of the deductible or the coverage you give them.
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But do they see the true benefit, the investment you're making in each of them with your benefit benefit program?
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And if they knew, do you think it would change how they thought about their benefit program?
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We're going to get into that today.
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Welcome to the Key Hire Small Business Podcast, hosted by Corey Harlock, creator of Key Hire Solutions, where small business owners learn how to build stronger teams, simplify growth, and scale confidently.
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Got feedback or topic ideas?
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Send us a text.
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Connect with Corey on LinkedIn through the link in the show notes.
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Mention you're a listener, and he'll accept your request.
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And now, on with the show.
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Here's your host, Corey Harlock.
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So before we get started, if I can just take a minute of your time and ask you to do me a favor.
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I know we have a ton of loyal listeners and we appreciate you.
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But would you be against just going up into that top right corner and hitting that subscribe or follow button?
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It takes a second, seconds.
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But that little action has huge impact.
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It gets us into the algorithm on those prospective platforms and it gets us recommended to other listeners.
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And our goal is to help as many small business owners as we can.
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So it would mean the world to me if you could just click that subscribe or follow button.
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All right, let's get back into it.
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We do have an announcement, but it's more of a non-announcement coming up uh in about a month.
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Something big happening with the podcast.
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I'm not going to get into details right now, but we have something cool in the works.
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It's a long-term thing.
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Yeah, I'm trying to build some suspense around it.
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But um if you want to know what it is, use the text Corey button uh or text the show button, the first line in the liner notes.
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Send me a text and say, Corey, what's happening with the podcast?
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And I will tell you all about it.
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Otherwise, you just have to hang on and wait a couple of weeks to see what it is.
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Okay.
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Uh last uh two weeks ago, we talked with Tony Mags, Tony Magganello, and uh we were talking about how to utilize wealth managers to help your employees save more money and be more loyal, really along the same lines of what we're getting into today.
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Tony was awesome, uh, had a lot of really good insights.
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So if you haven't gone back, that show is on August 24th.
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Check it out.
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It's a great show.
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And then our last show was with Barry Malin, and uh, we talked about behavioral economics uh in the science of influence and persuasion.
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Super, super interesting conversation.
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Barry was amazing.
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That was on August 31st.
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If you haven't had a chance to check that show out, make sure you go back and check that one out as well.
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On with today's show, we have Bill Hammett, and he's the owner of Hammett Health Insurance Services.
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Uh, he has over 20 years of experience in providing health, life, dental vision, and disability insurance to businesses in California and surrounding states.
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He's also a certified healthcare reform specialist, which enables him to help clients navigate the complex and changing landscape of healthcare legislation and regulation.
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We know it changes all the time.
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It's a total, total schmuzzle.
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But uh let's bring uh Bill onto the show.
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Bill, how are you doing?
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Doing great.
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How are you?
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Awesome.
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Healthcare benefits.
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Man, it's crazy, right?
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It's the healthcare
Load full transcript
world.
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Uh I had a client who who who um a couple years back, I mean, they were they were a rocket ship to the moon in terms of what they were doing, and they they had a um, it wasn't a device, but something along those lines.
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And one week all the government got together and said, oh no, for this particular product, you can only use these four providers, and all the other providers went almost to zero overnight.
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They went from hundreds of millions to nothing because the government just said, yeah, no, we're just we just want you to use these guys.
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And I don't know why they picked those four.
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Maybe you do.
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Uh, you know, you might have some insight into into why those those four providers were picked, but it's a crazy world.
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That the health care and benefits is is nutty.
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Yeah, it is.
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I mean, it's it's you know, it's one-sixth of our GDP.
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It is a gigantic issue that we all are contending with.
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And and I'm I'm just so passionate about it because it's such a big problem.
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And, you know, as an employer myself, I want to help employers navigate it because uh because of this system, since World War II, we get in America our health insurance through our employers.
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And so whether employers like it or not, they might be in the widget business, the plumbing business, the car sale business.
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They're all in the health insurance business, unfortunately for them.
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That's that's a good way to put it.
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And it's it's well, the good thing is they make it really easy to follow and understand, I guess.
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Oh, yeah.
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That's the job security part for for us and for the good agents out there to help explain it.
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And there there are a few good good guys like you, men and women out there who actually give a shit about making sure they're people to take care of.
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It's it's a huge business.
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I mean, agencies are always looking for people.
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They're they're they have training programs, they got to get out there, they have to get themselves out front, uh, be first, close the sale because it's a product, it's a commodity at the end of the day, isn't it?
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Sure, sure.
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Yeah, the the product is the commodity, the service portion of it that gets it to the and through the employer is the difference maker.
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I I tell a lot of employers, you know, all of this insurance stuff is exactly the same.
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You pick the logo, then you can get a dozen insurance agents to give you the exact same price.
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You're not shopping for health insurance, you're shopping for brokers.
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And what does that broker, what is their process, what is their opinion and and their strategy behind bringing it to your employees?
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How how much difference does the str does the strategy affect the cost, the deliverability, the the uh ease of use?
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What how much difference does the strategy make?
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Because I've heard that before, right?
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It's the strategy, but does it can it really affect the cost of the program?
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Yeah, I mean, when you're when you depending on the size of the business, you know, for most employers that, especially in California, have less than you know, 40 or or so employees, there's only so many options.
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It's usually a fully insured type of option where where some strategies around HRAs and HSAs can move the needle a little bit, lower the total costs, still bring benefits to employees.
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So they're out of pocket, costs are manageable.
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But as you get into larger companies, once you get north of 50 in California, and a lot of places are doing this down to two employees, self-funded or level funded.
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This is where employers can start playing the same game of blackjack that the insurance companies are paying, uh have been playing for decades, which is we bet you'll spend less than you think, but give us all the money, we'll take the risk.
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Employers are starting to take some of that risk on themselves, betting that they can save money, uh, especially now with some of the levers you can pull for cancer care, for getting prescription drugs out of uh different places.
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There's a lot of rebates, there's a lot of dollars hidden in the prescription drug business that employers can can claw back.
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I mean, you go to the pharmacy and they say, you know, here's how much your prescription is.
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Do you have a back, do you have a coupon?
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Yeah, I do.
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Oh, yeah, it's now one-tenth the price.
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Yeah, how does that work?
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Yeah, I you know, the the the pharmacy portion of the of the benefit experience now, back in the late 90s, it was about 3% of the total premium you're paying.
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Now it's 25% of your medical premium, is just purely your prescription drug benefit and it is escalating fast.
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Um, this is, you know, this is
due to us as Americans paying so much more for the same drugs that are neighbors to the north and south, just are not.
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And it's regulation.
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And it's ultimately because these insurance companies or these pharmaceutical companies can charge that much that they do.
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Right.
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And politics aside, the current administration's trying to put a dent in that.
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Sure.
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Whatever you think of it, at least they've they've put an eye on it and said, we're paying too much.
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We got to, why should we be paying the most?
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100%.
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100%.
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There's anything we can do to cut into all the there's not one problem with healthcare and health insurance.
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There is many problems, and how do we how do we identify them and and and do something about them individually and collectively?
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Yeah.
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And and then you have the other side.
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The more you the more services you use.
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And actually, I want to go back because you talked about people kind of quote unquote self-insuring themselves, right, on their own benefit plan.
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Yeah.
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In that plan, if something catastrophic happens to one of their employees and they don't have money in that account to cover it, does that come out of the employer's pocket at that point or the business's pocket?
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Well, yeah.
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When you're self-insuring, you're usually an employer is usually putting on each one of their employees a$75,000,$100,000 deductible.
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And the employer is paying for everything up to that$100,000 deductible, save for whatever, if you put a$2,000 deductible, whatever plan you've built for the employee to share some of that cost, employees' cost share usually maxes out at$5,000,$7,000 a year.
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And everything above that, the employer would be paying.
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And then there's a reinsurance provider from there.
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But yeah, they they have to have the funds to manage that sort of risk.
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And that's part of the job of a broker like myself is helping them understand this could be a major cash issue for you.
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If you have two major claims early in the year and you're out 150 grand on two people, can you handle that?
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Can we withstand that?
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You know, and so that's part of the strategy conversation leading into it because self-insuring has a major upside, it has major downside, and all around
side is more work for everybody.
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And there's also the argument around, I had a client again, years ago.
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Um the daughter had taken over the family business from the father, and they had a lot of legacy employees.
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People had just been there forever, and they started getting, as they got older, started getting sick.
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And they had two or three people over the course of two or three years that went through major medical uh issues that cost their insurance plan a shit ton of money.
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And the premiums went up.
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And so I remember going there and they're like, it's gonna be hard because our insurance plan is not cheap.
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And I was like, Well, like, can you shop it?
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What can you do?
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And they're like, We've tried, but we had all of these things that happen and no one will touch us, yeah.
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Because we we have billed so much back to to it, and it's that sucks because you want loyal employees to be with you a long time, but if you keep them long enough that they start getting sick and costing you money, then it hurts the business.
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Yeah, it's it's a vicious cycle, and it's a shitty way to look at it.
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Yeah, but it's real though.
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It's that's real for that employer.
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And you know, with the self-insured, some some real the real self-insured loyalist would say that believe it or not, you could be in a better position if you self-insure, because with the fully insured type of product, that employee goes wherever they go and they get whatever care they get, and it is what it is.
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And then the bill comes back to the insurance company, the insurance company marks up your premiums and tells you, you know, deal with it.
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Self-insured, you could redirect some of that care.
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You could you could get some of that care uh delivered under uh lower cost circumstances, you can get it to drive it to centers of excellence, you can you can get medication from other places, you can source it from places.
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So instead of$10,000 a month, it's$500 a month.
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There's a number of things you can do there uh that can control it.
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But again, self-insured, you have control.
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Now, do you want it or not is is the key.
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But fully insured, fully insured, you're paying for it because they're just gonna jack your rates up every single year, which is a fact of of life, unfortunately.
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And if you're self-insured, you almost need a full-time employee's just employee to manage that and navigate it, right?
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Because I there's a there's a Chris Voss video out there where he he had uh uh an outstanding bill from a hospital for whatever reason.
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Yeah, and uh he kind of went into collections, so he called them and he said to the woman, I owe you some money.
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And he was joking around with her and he said, Yeah, what kind of deal can you give me?
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And she said, uh, 10%.
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And he goes, You'll give me 10% off, and she goes, No, pay pay.
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And he was like, Okay, yeah.
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I mean, he's a good negotiator, but that's a heck of a deal.
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These these hospitals, sometimes it's just as valuable for them to write it off that it is for them to get the money.
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And and some of the places that buy the debt, they don't care, they collect anything they want.
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So you can, it is you can get hot bills from hospitals and providers, and it is very much up for a conversation.
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You know, you can you can do a payment plan, and then after a few months of a payment plan, just go, hey, listen, it says I owe you 5,000 bucks, I'll give you a thousand right now, we'll call it even.
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And a lot of times they'll take it.
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So this is this is kind of part of the healthcare system where we all got to be a little bit better consumers, right?
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We need to be, we shop the heck out of cars and clothes and groceries, but with healthcare, we just put our head down and say, yes, sir, may I have another?
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You know, this is where you got to get a little bit more proactive.
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You become a consumer of the healthcare, you uh advocate for yourself, lean on the people like your broker, like their staff that can help you with the advocacy because the insurance business is spending off a lot of money in a lot of places, and one of those is your broker, and they should be helping you if you or your employees have problems.
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Yeah, it's it's crazy.
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And I know one of the missed opportunities to kind of piggyback on that, a lot of business owners think, ah, my benefit person is a friend of mine.
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They've been here for 10 years.
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I know they're giving me a good deal.
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I don't need to shop it.
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And then when they shop it, they realize their good old buddy old pal has not been giving them the best deal, right?
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Because they're not looking at the policy.
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So they crank it up
10, 15, 20% every year and just say, hey, that's the market.
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And the business owner says, okay.
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And they miss the opportunity to say, well, hold on, let's let's see what else is happening out there.
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There should there should always be another set of eyes on your benefits stuff.
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If your broker feels strongly enough about the strategy that's in place, it should stand up to questioning, it should stand up to alternate quotes.
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I'm sure my clients have shopped me at times, and I welcome that.
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I do not begrudge the competition.
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Uh, it it helps us, uh, helps everybody out.
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But yes, if your if your brother-in-law or your neighbor or your buddy from college is your insurance broker, and there hasn't been a lot of change over these last couple of years, it's probably because they're not shopping it for you.
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It is a lot more work for brokers to move a policy from company A to company B than it is to just say, hey, best thing for you, just stick stick with what you got.
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Everything looks good.
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Very yeah, you're you're in good shape.
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Exactly.
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Okay, so what we really wanted to get into was the cost of the employer and how we can leverage that.
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Yeah.
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I know with with key hire, we have what we call the seven candidate drivers.
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There's only seven seven negotiables when someone hires gets hired on as a new job.
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You can negotiate salary, you can negotiate uh incentive, you can negotiate benefits, you can negotiate 401k, uh PTO.
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Um my God, I'm drawing a blank on schedule.
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Are you in or out of the office, right?
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Uh all those are, I think only did six, but anyway, benefits is in there.
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And the idea is to get a snapshot of your offering versus their offering and see where you line up and where where you're not.
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You might be stronger somewhere.
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You know, I have a client right now, they pay 100% of employee benefit.
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That's a strong position.
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No one's gonna person coming in isn't gonna be able to match that, right?
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They're probably at a 50 or 75.
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Yeah.
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And but the other side of that is if if you as a small business owner, like you said, sometimes they're disadvantaged because they don't have the headcount to drive those lower policies.
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--> 00:18:13.440
And someone coming from a larger company has a Cadillac of policies and there's a couple hundred dollars a month, say it's 500 bucks a month in in premium difference.
00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:15.279
Well, that's$6,000 a year.
00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:26.559
And if you say I'll give you a$10,000 increase to come join me, they do the math and they go, ooh, that's really only$4,000 if that's the only differentiator, right?
00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:26.960
Sure.
00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:29.200
And so it can be a challenge.
00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:42.799
Oftentimes, what we advise our client to say is, I'm gonna pay you a salary in the cut in their agreement, and I'm gonna give you a stipend for benefits because we understand we want to keep you home, we want to make sure you get this increase.
00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:46.400
But as our benefits change, so will this stipend.
00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:47.200
Sure.
00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:47.599
Right.
00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:53.119
And so if we get a better plan, it'll go down to$200 a month versus$500 or whatever it is.
00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:56.720
Or if we get a great planner we it'll just go away eventually.
00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:59.039
And you can write that into the offer.
00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:07.920
But that is post-COVID, it used to be PTO bonuses, right?
00:19:08.079 --> 00:19:10.319
Those used to be the number two things I got asked.
00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:14.240
Now the first thing people ask about is what is what does your benefit program look like?
00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:14.960
100%.
00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:24.240
And and the employers that are doing this right, they are treating benefits not as an HR expense, they're treating benefits as compensation.
00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:31.920
You know, if you're paying someone$80,000 and spend another$15 or$20,000 in benefits, you don't have an$80,000 employee.
00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:34.799
You have a you have a six-figure investment in that person.
00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:35.599
Yeah, correct.
00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:41.200
You know, and and calling that out in your benefit offering, it can help you win the candidate.
00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:52.480
You know, if two companies are offering a$90,000 salary, but one can clearly show another$18,000 in benefits being put into the family, those aren't the same offer.
00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:57.599
You know, so this is really employers putting it out there as employees are coming in.
00:19:57.759 --> 00:20:02.880
Like you said, the first thing we talked about, the benefits are the front porch of your of your company.
00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:09.680
This is what this is an extent experience with your culture, is what you pay towards benefits.
00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:21.519
And you want to make sure that you've got a good story to tell and that you are telling it because so often employees just see the$200 coming out of their paycheck, they don't realize that the employer is spending a thousand on top of that.
00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:21.839
Right.
00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:24.640
And I think it's time for employers to bring that to light.
00:20:24.880 --> 00:20:27.680
And every time they look at that$200, they get pissed off.
00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:28.000
Yeah.
00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:32.960
Because they're like, oh, I, you know, what do I have to even pay this for or whatever it is?
00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:33.440
Yeah.
00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:41.599
Um, I I think it's it's smart because as I just mentioned, people see it as an expense.
00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:51.839
And we do all hands meetings and we talk about revenue and we talk about you know, where are we and our projections for the quarter and how are we doing?
00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:58.400
But I've never seen anyone throw those those benefit numbers in there and say, hey, just also, and we added a new line item here, right?
00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:01.119
Here's how much we invested in benefits this quarter.
00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:01.920
Yeah.
00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:08.160
And here's I worked back in the day, I think we were all restaurant servers, right?
00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:10.079
Um but bar together.
00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:10.799
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:19.359
The whole damn I I've actually made a career in restaurants for a while, but um we got benefits at one point at one of the restaurants I worked at.
00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:30.720
And the big thing was if you go to the dentist, do not take the little goodie bag with the toothbrush they give you because they call it like oral care and they charge the plan like$200 for that.
00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:34.480
And if everyone's taking that$200, our our price is gonna go up.
00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:36.079
So don't take it, just say no.
00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:37.759
And so they can't charge you for it.
00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:38.720
And I still do that.
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:41.119
Like when I go leave the desk and they here's your good.
00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:46.160
What do I need the travel toothbrush and the shitty toothpaste for?
00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:49.200
Like it's but it's they bill for it.
00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:50.000
Wow.
00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:50.480
Yeah.
00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:50.880
Yeah.
00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:54.720
I mean, there's there's billing everyone I was in Canada for crying out loud.
00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:55.519
Yeah.
00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:56.400
Yeah.
00:21:56.480 --> 00:21:59.359
I mean, it's it's it's part of the process.
00:21:59.440 --> 00:21:59.759
There's people.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:05.039
Billing for everything, and it's it is it does get frustrating, and we ultimately end up paying for it.
00:22:05.119 --> 00:22:20.640
But it's it's such an interesting, um uh such an interesting business, such an interesting interaction because the people paying for it aren't in the room with the dentist or the doctor and the patient who's delivering the care, who's receiving the care, and who's paying for the care.
00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:22.240
These are three different entities.
00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:23.359
That's interesting.
00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:32.240
And the one paying for the care is not in the room, you know, and so that becomes a major sticking point in how benefits are experienced in our country.
00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:45.440
Well, and if to follow your line of thinking, if you made it a conversation around our investment in you, it's you could have those conversations quarterly about, hey, here's our plan.
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:51.119
And if you had someone asking those questions, how can we minimize our policy going up?
00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:52.640
And what if it was that stupid example?
00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:58.079
Tell your people when they go to the dentist not to take the goodie bag, that'll keep your dental insurance low, right?
00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:05.839
Um, if your people need to, and I I don't know, I'm I'm a Canadian living in the States.
00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:08.720
I came from Canada, Healthcare and Here, we have a very good plan.
00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:27.599
So I I I I don't have the best insight, but I'm just saying, you know, what if it were prescriptions and they're like, instead of going to this pharmacy, make sure your people go to this pharmacy and get the RX version of the drugs, like the off-brand names instead of the big names, because you're gonna pay less for those and it'll keep your premiums low, right?
00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:30.000
You're not gonna be charging back to the insurance company.
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:43.200
I don't know, but I'm sure there's strategies if you made this a quarter, put it into your meetings and said, like, hey, our monthly benefit topic is this, and started educating people around we're investing in you.
00:23:43.359 --> 00:23:44.880
We want to get you a great plan.
00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:49.680
And to do that, we have to make sure we minimize as much waste as we can here.
00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:50.319
Yeah.
00:23:51.119 --> 00:24:04.880
To your point, I always instruct employees, hey, there's a link or here's some information on the mail order pharmacy benefit where you can get the exact same medication, a three-month supply for the price of two months, and it's delivered right to your door.
00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:09.599
You don't lose the time going out to the pharmacy, and you save 33% of it.
00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:24.799
So, so on a more global global topic here, about what you're saying is sometimes the answer isn't better benefits, it's a better understanding of the benefits you already bought and how to use them and training employees.
00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:28.720
And when we do open enrollment meetings, they are very intense with information.
00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:33.200
We have uh for our larger clients office hours where they can log in and ask questions.
00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:37.920
We have automatic education pieces that are going out from an email drip.
00:24:38.160
--> 00:24:44.880
And for employers that want it, we can do quarterly or bi-annual benefits meetings where we just refresh.
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:46.319
This is the discounts you get.
00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:48.480
This is how you get the prescriptions cheaper.
00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:52.240
Hey, don't forget urgent care versus emergency rooms, you know.
00:24:52.400 --> 00:25:02.640
So if you are an employer trying to beef up your benefit program, before you buy the 17th line of coverage, make sure your people understand benefits one through 16.
00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:06.559
I think I just came up with a million-dollar idea if it doesn't exist.
00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:08.559
The benefit educators, right?
00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:21.440
Like these people, and I'm sure they're sure you do that, like going in and telling people, like you said, if if everyone's getting the the brand name drugs, that's got to affect your policy, right?
00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:22.720
Some of these drugs are not cheap.
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:32.799
But if you're going getting the RX or the mail ver the mail in drug stores and you're getting them for a third off, and I'm sure you're getting off-brand stuff at a third off, so it's even cheaper, cheaper, cheaper.
00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:33.119
Yeah.
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:59.680
Um, that's a way to keep the premium low, which keeps more money in the business, which you now, I mean uh you can imagine if you had an incentive line around benefits and you said last year we spent eighty thousand dollars on benefits, and if we can if we can come in at 80,000 again, so our our premium doesn't go up, everyone gets a thousand bucks.
00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:00.160
Yeah.
00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:00.480
Yeah.
00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:06.319
Because if they went and it went up 10%, they're gonna pay a thousand extra bucks an employee anyway, whatever that number is, right?
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:16.960
If you did that math, that's crazy to think that you could make an incentive line around your benefit program just by, and then the people are totally aware of what that investment is.
00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:17.440
Yeah.
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:27.680
And they're they're working and fighting with you for the company to keep that cost line low so they can get new equipment or they can get a TV in the break room.
00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:34.799
I don't know what it is, but you know, there's there's lots of ways you could spend those savings or that that lack of increase.
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:35.440
Yeah.
00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:39.359
And and an educated healthcare consumer behaves differently.
00:26:39.519 --> 00:26:44.559
An educated employee on their benefits has chosen a plan that better meets their needs.
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:50.400
They're more understanding of where to go and where the resources are when they have some sort of an issue.
00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:58.160
They assign a higher level of value to the benefits program that you're offering than does that employee down the street who's had no such education.
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:07.759
It's the same plan for the same price, but the educated consumer is healthier, they are happier about it, and they assign more value to what you're paying for.
00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:11.359
It's just like your manufacturing.
00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:22.960
If you assign value to waste and things and production and on time and quality, and you bonus people on that, they pay attention to quality and getting things done on time and minimizing waste.
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:23.519
Exactly.
00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:23.759
Yeah.
00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:25.279
It's the same thing.
00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:30.079
And it's funny, I mentioned we had Tony Maganello on a couple episodes ago, Tony Meg's.
00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:38.720
Um, but he was talking about bringing in wealth advisors for your employees to help them better manage their money.
00:27:38.880 --> 00:27:43.119
So if you do give them an increase or you don't, but they feel really taken care of.
00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:51.119
And they're he could he said, you know, they can bring 40% more from their paycheck home and into the bank account by doing that.
00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:53.119
And this is along the same line.
00:27:53.279 --> 00:28:00.640
I I never this has been a very uh interesting conversation for him because I never thought I never thought about benefits like this.
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:03.759
I was one of those people who's like, it is what it is, there's nothing you can do about it.
00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:04.319
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:05.599
You just got to suck it up.
00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:08.960
But yeah, there is something you can do, which is amazing.
00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:10.799
Yeah, absolutely.
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:23.119
I mean, even if you're one of those smaller employees that doesn't have any many levers, the education portion of it, um, it can help them be the employees be healthier because healthcare confusion does cost something.
00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:26.480
Sometimes it's an unnecessary ER visit.
00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:33.039
Sometimes it's avoiding care that is necessary, sometimes it's choosing the wrong plan or spending something you shouldn't spend.
00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:38.000
These things cost the employer money, the employee money, time, health.
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:41.279
Uh, so there is real costs to all of that.
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:47.519
Especially if you're an employer paying 100% of the employee uh ticket, right?
00:28:47.599 --> 00:28:50.319
Like you would want to educate them and say, look, I'm I'm happy to pay this.
00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:54.880
But you can't like let's work together because I would love to keep paying you 100% of your premium.
00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:55.200
Yeah.
00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:59.119
But if it gets too high, I might have to start giving some back to you, right?
00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:03.359
And so let's
let's work together so I can keep taking care of you.
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:05.119
Yeah, yeah, 100%.
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:08.880
It's such an interesting lever.
00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:14.400
I never so I've always had that lever, that driver in there, but I never thought of it like this.
00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:24.559
And I think it's it's so the battle cry of the small business owner is that sounds expensive and I don't have the time for it.
00:29:24.799 --> 00:29:25.359
Yeah.
00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:30.160
But but but this is this is an investment of the time.
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:35.920
I mean, and business owners are investing their time and education and attention into AI and how it can help them with things.
00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:40.160
The benefits expense, which for many employers is the second highest expense they have.
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:42.319
Yeah, you what stat did you put on that?
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:44.480
What percentage did you put on there?
00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:46.960
Um, I don't recall.
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:47.359
What do you?
00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:47.680
I don't know.
00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:56.720
Oh, I don't, I remember, I thought you had thrown a stat out, but yeah, labor is like generally anywhere from what 10, 20, like anywhere from 10% to one third of your.
00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:02.640
I know in restaurants it's generally 25%, a quarter of your expenses, right?
00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:03.039
Yeah.
00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:03.440
Yeah.
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:08.480
And then you tack on your like you said, benefits could be another 20% on top of that, right?
00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:09.200
Absolutely.
00:30:09.440 --> 00:30:10.000
Absolutely.
00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:13.759
So for the business owner that says I don't have time, it's too confusing.
00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:16.559
You can't afford I can't afford to commit the time to it.
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:17.759
You can't afford not to.
00:30:17.839 --> 00:30:20.720
You got to have strong benefits representation.
00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:27.359
Because as I know you've talked about many times, candidates are effectively customers that are evaluating the employer.
00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:29.440
So you need the talent to come in.
00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:37.359
And and so when you when you got the talent to come in, good job, you won them over, you presented how much you pay for the benefits and all that kind of stuff.
00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:46.400
You spend all this time and money convincing them, and their first experience might be a 47-page booklet about their about the about policies they don't understand.
00:30:46.480 --> 00:30:48.559
And that's that's not onboarding, that's homework.
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:49.920
And so reading it.
00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:54.319
So so all the way through the process, get them in and get them settled.
00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:58.160
And then no, it's it's it's quieter for your HR department.
00:30:58.240 --> 00:30:59.839
That's another part that we talk a lot about.
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:14.480
Education brings the noise down in the HR department, which HR already overworked, understaffed, and so making making benefits easier and educating employees directly, it it makes the whole business more efficient.
00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:15.359
Yeah.
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:41.839
Is this something I could do a little test with my friend that my benefits provider, who's I've been with for 10 years, to say, hey, I want you to come in to my next all hands meeting and do a presentation on how we should be managing our benefits, how to keep our premium down, how to utilize mail-in pharmacies, how to utilize.
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:48.319
I know emergent and urgent care is a big one because emergency, they have to pay, right?
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:49.680
They cannot decline.
00:31:49.920 --> 00:32:01.440
So if you go in for a sore throat to emergency and they charge$10,000 to assess you, the the benefit provider cannot refuse to pay that because it's urgent care or emergent.
00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:06.160
So emergency is defined as a life or limb-threatening emergency.
00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:18.160
So if it was a sore throat, they probably wouldn't code it as an emergency, but still the employee is now visited the most expensive way to gain care in the American healthcare system, the emergency room.
00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:20.079
So they didn't want to wait in line.
00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:20.559
Yeah.
00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:25.920
For your broker or for anybody's broker that wants to kind of pressure test are they on the job?
00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:34.559
It depends on the size of your company, but you should be asking them about alternative funding methods that we might be eligible for, level funding, self-funding.
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:52.319
If they want to come in and do a presentation on how employees can more responsibly use their benefits, it's generic drugs, it's mail order pharmacy benefits, it's making sure do they know where the nearest urgent care center is to their home or to the office so they avoid going to the emergency room.
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:56.240
Um, do they have they are they getting pre-approvals?
00:32:56.319 --> 00:32:58.160
Are they asking for the the doctor?
00:32:58.319 --> 00:33:01.839
Did you get that pre-authorized from my from my insurance company?
00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:09.599
That can that can help with the the uh speed in which they're getting coverage, also can keep them from going to out-of-network providers.
00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:13.680
So understanding what does in-network mean, what is out of network mean.
00:33:13.839 --> 00:33:17.920
So just where do I go when the inevitable problems happen?
00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:20.559
Do I understand what my plan covers?
00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:23.920
These are the these are the kind of things that we can be training employees.
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:30.720
We can be asking of our benefit providers to
put together some sort of relatively short presentation for an all-hands meeting.
00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:34.160
Hey, just a reminder, there's these ways that you can save.
00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:38.960
Did you know about the telehealth benefit where they can do, they can talk about all these kinds of things.
00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:42.960
They can prescribe medications should you need it over the phone.
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:46.720
Telehealth for mental health uh services.
00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:58.559
So there's a lot of different ways that you can access care now, some of which aren't as um marketed because it doesn't allow for doctors or insurance companies to bill for them, right?
00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:03.920
You know, so this is still part of the fee for service thing that we have a problem with in America.
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:07.039
But there are lots of things you can do to pressure test your current broker.
00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:07.759
Are they on it?
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:10.239
And if not, you can find one that is.
00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:24.159
I think you just did that.
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:26.000
So I don't even need to answer the question.
00:34:26.079 --> 00:34:27.440
You just put a bow on it.
00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:28.639
It's it's great.
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:32.239
You you did the impossible, you made benefits interesting.
00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:33.199
Okay.
00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:33.920
Yeah.
00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:43.519
I love when you have an epiphany about yeah, benefits don't have to be these shackles that you're just stuck with.
00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:46.320
You can take action, you can do something about it.
00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:49.599
You're not gonna win, but you can minimize, right?
00:34:49.679 --> 00:35:00.559
You can you can kind of it's a bit of a David and Goliath situation, but you can take action and and not just feel like you gotta you gotta take what they give you.
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:01.039
Yeah.
00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:16.800
I mean, if if you were to if you were to take some action and your next year's renewal wasn't 12%, it was 9%, and then you extrapolated that 3% difference over a three or five year period, you're talking about a very large difference in the delta and total premiums.
00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:18.719
Okay, hundreds of thousands of dollars.
00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:22.159
Cutting into this stuff must be done.
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:28.079
It's not any longer, this is not 2021 where we're like it should be done, it could be done.
00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:29.440
Hey, you should call Bill.
00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:31.760
No, it is gotta be done.
00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:34.960
Everybody has got to be looking at everything right now.
00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:40.239
Uh, I created a presentation called Leave No Stone Unturned, where I'm giving it to HR associations.
00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:49.119
And it just goes through all of the all of the terminology, all of the things that employers could be
doing around benefits uh today.
00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:53.760
Are we, did we talk about are we gonna make that accessible to people?
00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:57.840
Uh I would be happy to share it with anybody that that would like to see it.
00:35:57.920 --> 00:35:59.599
Um it's not up on anything.
00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:02.320
It's it's a it's a presentation I'd I'd like to give.
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:04.400
I don't want my competitors to take it and run with it.
00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:08.079
But I'm gonna share it with with any of your of your listeners.
00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:08.559
I'm gonna go to the show.
00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:12.639
I didn't want to put you on the spot, but I think we're gonna put your contact information.
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:15.519
So if people are, and again, you're doing my job for me.
00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:21.039
So you know we say uh people want to reach out to you and and uh talk to you and learn more.
00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:24.960
So if people do want to learn more about what you do, Bill, uh this has been great.
00:36:25.119 --> 00:36:30.159
Or they they want to talk to you about that no stone unturned, how can they get in touch with you?
00:36:30.559 --> 00:36:35.199
Well, yeah, a real, I mean, real obviously on my website is hammockhealth.com.
00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:38.079
That's two M's and two T's, HammettHealth.com.
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:42.320
And a real easy one, if you're on Instagram at all, I'm I'm at Healthcare Bill.
00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:46.000
So it's kind of a play on the words, Healthcare Bill, but that's where you can find.
00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:53.519
I do every Monday, I do a whole I break down one very specific insurance thing, and it's a 30 to 60 second breakdown.
00:36:53.679 --> 00:37:00.800
Uh, and every Friday I do a the three topics of healthcare you might have missed on politics and policy of healthcare and healthcare reform.
00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:04.000
Uh, so those are those are some fun things that are out there in in the world.
00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:11.039
And then of course my staff has me do funny TikToks where I do weird things that are tell me you're don't don't dance, you're not dancing.
00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:13.039
I'm not dancing, I'm just doing acting things.
00:37:13.119 --> 00:37:19.280
And you know, you get the you get the middle-aged white guy can you know mouthing over the a quote from the mean girls, and it's funny to everybody.
00:37:19.360 --> 00:37:20.239
So, you know.
00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:22.159
Very cool.
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:23.440
This has been great, man.
00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:25.280
I I've really enjoyed the conversation.
00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:26.480
I think there's a ton of value.
00:37:26.559 --> 00:37:29.360
You're giving me a lot to think about as well that I can take back to my client.
00:37:29.440 --> 00:37:30.400
So I think it was great.
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:31.119
Thanks so much.
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:31.840
Awesome.
00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:32.800
Thank you.
00:37:33.199 --> 00:37:34.079
All right, there you go.
00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:37.519
Bill Hammett doing the making the impossible happen.
00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:40.800
He made uh benefits super interesting.
00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:42.480
I really enjoyed the conversation.
00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:46.960
Okay, as I mentioned, uh we got some big announcements coming up in the next couple of weeks.
00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:48.480
So hang in there with us.
00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:59.039
If you have any questions, comments about the show, you didn't get Bill's address and you want uh me to put you in touch with him, hit the text the show button in the show notes.
00:37:59.840 --> 00:38:02.079
And until next time, I'm Corey Harlock.
00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:03.280
Thanks for listening.
00:38:03.519 --> 00:38:05.360
Stop grinding, start growing.