KOPYA NG SALIN 🔗
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Welcome to Pillar and Ground Podcast.
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I'm Annie Darby, Director of High School Girls Ministry at Lookout Mountain Presbyterian Church, and this episode is a Pillar and Ground Connections episode where we seek to increase our connection to one another, with whom we stand together in community and mission.
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And today I'm joined by Debbie Young.
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Welcome, Debbie.
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Thank you.
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Debbie is a longtime member and friend and volunteer in our youth department with the high school girls.
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And so I'm so excited that you're here.
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Okay.
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As you said, I have been a member in this church for some time, and my life profession was in the field of education and coaching.
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So I've been around youth for most of my, if not all, my adult life.
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And so this was a natural extension, I felt like, both things that are close to my heart, you know, my church and my work with people in in education and coaching.
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And so I think that's really what drew me.
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And just people that stood in the gap for me when I was working and once I had kids, um, of and it was a way of giving back.
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I feel like personally I benefited from a strong youth program at First Press here in Chattanooga.
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And it was huge in our life as a family, and for me personally, it's where I became a believer.
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And it was a very vibrant youth experience.
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And then fast forward many years when I had our own kids, I will often tell parents that if the doors were unlocked, my kids were here.
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That sometimes I felt like this was maybe their first home, and we were the second home where they came to brush their teeth and maybe change clothes.
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But it was um a huge part of you know our life and theirs.
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Debbie was my high school small group leader.
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Um careful now.
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Um, and so I I believe it was my sophomore year.
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I can't really remember, but I think it was my sophomore year.
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And I remember that time in your living room, you know, Jack was young and would come chat with us before and after.
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Um but that small group experience really started my love for small groups.
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And, you know, I ended up going through high school and then I went to Georgia and was in small groups there as well.
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But a lot of how I learned to lead small groups um for high school girls was because of how I thought about my high school small group leaders.
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And Ellie Henry was a small group leader of mine, and um Carly Morrow or Moss now was a small group leader of mine.
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And so um, for those of you listening, when I took this job, I and I had to find small group leaders.
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It was post-COVID, and I was like, oh gosh, like what do who do I?
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I'm new, I'm back new to the area, don't know who to ask to do this.
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I was like, well, I guess I'll call my old small group leaders and see if they'll do it again.
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Um and so I feel like you have been a fellow volunteer with me since I started working here.
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Um and so uh I have not worked at this church without you volunteering beside me.
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I tell people oftentimes, like, if Debbie's there, I feel invincible.
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If Debbie is not there, I feel very fragile.
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I would I would throw that right back at you.
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If Andy's with me, I I can do this.
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Um, so tell us a little bit about what you dove into because you really have done it all and kind of just speak to that experience of a lot of people listening might not even know what what we do or what our program is.
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So tell us a little bit about your experience just serving in the different capacities that our church offers for the youth department.
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So there's so many opportunities with you know, from general events in the summer or weekend retreats, um, mission trips.
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I've been to Uganda twice, going again in a few weeks, which I'm beside myself.
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Um and uh summer beach trip.
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Um lots of opportunities, and each has its own personality, if you will, and I think opportunity for depth with kids.
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And I think one of the nice things about um that when you have a small group, you you know, you meet weekly during the school year, and you it is in a similar way of adult small groups, you you do life with them week in and week out.
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But there is something about going away, um eating, you know, and living a week where you're actually you see them first thing in the morning, you you know, especially like on beach trip where you're doing your shopping together for your groceries for the week and you learn different things about the kids.
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And I think it's really I just feel like it's given um sweet depth to um what is already uh, you know, a relational type of exercise and being able to do this, but there are just so many opportunities, and I know for me personally, coming back
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into this is um some of the reservations I have that I would speak to other adults that may be questioning, like, oh, I'm past, you know, the sun has set on that part of my life.
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I would say absolutely not.
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I think um uh God's work in our life continues um throughout life, so it's not like you're you're done there.
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And I think um living that transparently transparently with kids has value, even though sometimes they can't make that jump to where you are.
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There really is a lot of similar things that you experience, you know, um prayers answered, um, what you're learning in quiet time, where you feel like God has challenged you.
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Those are all, you know, ageless.
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Those are not things that only certain, you know, ages go through.
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So I would really encourage people to, I won't say it doesn't creep up.
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I question my relevancy weekly um in terms of that, but I I've seen time and time again, just you know, speaking, especially to the girls that have been, you know, so willing just to roll their sleeves up and jump in and have not made that um an issue.
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So I would really encourage people to do it.
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I feel like I have gained so much more, as is true with a lot of things that we go into, where we think we're gonna be giving these certain things, and the what we get in return has far outweighed, you know, the time and stuff that and it just it it really the driving part was it was such an important part.
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So it's not been too long where I can't remember um things that my kids shared about how important.
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I mean, you know, one of my sons is small group leaders, some things that he challenged him on, and dating and married was huge, and that he shared even years later, you know, well, this is what I was challenged with.
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And we were like, we truly felt during those years that there was we were not parenting alone.
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We truly had partners in that.
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And if I can be used in that way, I think that's a tremendous opportunity and gift to be able to come alongside parents and and just be connected to youth, which is so life-giving and what's is very important.
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They have an energy that translates to, yeah, I think as someone who is with high school girls most of my week, um, I there was a study done, um, I don't want to misquote this, but there's a study done um that uh something that people can point to that keeps kids connected in their faith when they are out of the house and like in college and beyond is if they're connected to an adult believer walking faithfully that's not their parent.
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And so that's why we just highlight small groups so intensely with trying to give them that in an organic way, uh, where everybody's doing it, but we're really, really hoping that um those adult friends can be people that walk faithfully beside them, that then as they do go out, they can point back to see like I actually know what it looks like to be um an adult in this world and still follow Jesus.
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And so to your point of relevancy, I think it is a like it gives me such peace to think about older women with wisdom and life experience, marriage, kids, hardship, um being in the lives of high school students who aren't considering those things yet.
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They're they're kids, they're not supposed to, but to be able to have that anchor in people that are well ahead of them is something that it just like fills me with such peace as I think about the grandness of this job, um, is that like we do have people like Don Kent, we do have people like Jennifer Thompson, um, Jennifer Mixon, Robert Barber, like we have people speaking in, which is awesome because as those, as they go off, they have uh a reference of what that might look like for them um moving through their life.
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So it is with great appreciation that that we have people like you that kind of commit to that season.
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Um Uganda's coming up.
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Um, we are going again.
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Um I've never led this trip without you.
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I've gone as a student, um, and I've gone as an intern.
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But um I wasn't planning on asking this, but give a little snippet of of what that is for that's coming up in like a month.
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Uh by the time people listen to this, I I think we'll have already gone and come back.
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But uh give us a little snippet on what that has been like to be part of the leadership team on something like that.
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Well, again, you're you're experiencing the kids, uh, many of whom you know because you've been in the group, but and certainly doing something out of the country in a place that's um unknown to most of us and um is pretty remarkable.
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You're traveling together.
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I I don't think I've laughed that hard as the first year.
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Um, Jeb Salter in the airport.
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Um just uh I I think back on some of the things and just the sweetness of the time we had together, not and then to land in this country, it's dark, you you can't see what you're experiencing quite yet.
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You only through the senses of smell and stuff do you even sense that you're in a different place and and the dim light and then this loud, thunderous welcome with hugs and stuff
from people that appeared as though they knew us well and just welcomed us.
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It was an unbelievable experience, and I think really spoke to me, and I I think the kids too of just Christian community from thousands of miles away, and what you share, you know, um, with people across the world that truly, I just think it brings that to life in a way that um like even Missions Week that does give life to some of that, experiencing that firsthand is phenomenal.
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I mean it just um yeah, my husband says, You can't stay.
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You you do know that.
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Um but um it is because he knows it it really just it was a huge piece of of just opening up my eyes to just the goodness of Christ and um and the joy that you know I think especially being in America, I think the the part of just seeing um the things that we we experience every day that we don't give a a second thought about.
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And um thinking you you think how maybe and we are privileged to have the things that we have, but to to go there and see the um the joy in the people, it is it it really is a testament to what uh our faith is, is all the uh the things that aren't um eternal, stripped away, and there's this huge piece of of joy and community, and that is really sweet.
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And there's something about being completely unplugged.
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And um the, you know, on Sunday nights, I don't do Sunday nights as much as I would love, but anytime like on beach trip or stuff that the kids sing, it's always very meaningful for me because it's just um over the years that the music speaks to me, but it is always a special part.
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But they're still plugged in and we're at our home and stuff, but to be away from all that, and again the nights around the campfire with other believers, it was just a sweet, sweet time in a different way with so much pulled away, and yet it was a richness that I had never experienced, not even on the sweet moments of here where you have um you know, senior night at Beach Trip, which is you know, when you were sending them off, and um, which is a very tender and sweet night.
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And I always felt just such a gift to even be able to sit in on that and watch the kids' um siblings um love on you know, fellow siblings and friends and younger ninth graders that are in a way grieving this launch of of people that have meant a lot that have poured back into them.
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And and this was that, but even a deeper suite just because of you know where you are, and you know, so yeah, I think Uganda any, I think you could probably go lots of places, that has been where I've gotten to experience that.
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But um yeah.
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I think what's also sweet about trips that we do, well, actually the first
thing I'll say is that speaking of singing, we my husband is coming with us again.
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Hallelujah, we have a voice.
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It is when you have uh no one to hide behind, and there's a pretty small team of people singing, you really can hear everyone's voice, and you don't really get to be, you know, behind anybody else.
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Um It's like Caroline.
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Yeah, I mean, it was always like, could we bring a ringer with us or something, some background music?
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But I know.
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And so when I told Debbie that uh my husband, who is very a very talented uh musician, was coming, she's like, Oh, praise the Lord, we're gonna have a strong anchor voice around the campfire.
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That is something those coaches singing is very moving.
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You feel like you're truly sitting in heaven.
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Yes.
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So and they would ask us to to belt it to yeah, and to sing something for them after they had just given us this beautiful gift of voice, and you're like, oh dear.
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Yeah, Aaron, Aaron would always be like, Annie, do you want to come up and hold the flashlight for me?
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And I'm like, oh gosh, I'm gonna be facing everybody now singing.
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And there's only like, you know, 20 of us.
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So, anyways, we will have William.
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Um I'll be the flashlight holder.
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And I mean, the flashlight holder can't sing.
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I'll just do that.
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Yeah.
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But I do think something that you mentioned for um small groups are great because they are a weekly touch point.
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Those trips are great because there's no time limit.
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And so, like, I even think about when you're sitting on a flight with someone for 30 hours, there's only so many movies that you can watch, or so many times you can try to fall asleep, or on a bus to the beach trip.
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Like, there's only so much you can do before you turn to your neighbor and like start talking and don't have something you're running to or trying to catch.
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And so I even think about myself, like you and I sitting on a flight in 2023.
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You were the first person I told that William Darby and I were seeing each other because things come bubble up to the surface that you would not normally share.
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And so on these trips, we get a glimpse of that with students where you're sitting with them for long enough that an hour-long coffee might not warrant.
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But now that you have them
for 10 days, you really get to know them in a way that is forging that friendship and that mentorship and discipleship in a way that is so like life-giving and fruitful.
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And so I, though retreats and the beach trip and missions trips are a lot to pull off, it is oftentimes in those moments that I think us leaders find that we really get to dig in and catch them at a moment that we don't get otherwise.
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They don't have their phone, they don't have a sports practice, they don't have homework, and they just get to be like kids and we get to watch it.
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It is, it's really unusual in that way because even in small groups, they bring their week with them.
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Right.
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And that's part of what small group is, is a place where they can just and but like you said, those things are stripped away.
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And each um not Ponderosa as much because I don't see the people that owned it own it, but like Beach Trip and Uganda, the ministry that the kids take on themselves to people around them is to me always so touching.
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Um when we go in people on the beach trip where families um comment about the behavior or the the way that our kids carry themselves or that they're dressed appropriately, you know, out on the beach, or and the laughter and the time that they're playing together.
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And inevitably people comment on that, and it's really they see a difference.
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And I think it's you know, um, it's a sweet testament to to their faith and um what I feel like the youth group um experience um uh you know pulls out of them.
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And same with uh with Uganda.
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Um I feel like it um watching them reach out to these the school kids and the response from the school kids is is just really it's really sweet.
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And I think as as um parents, it I wish they could get a glimpse of that because I think it, you know, parents I think would be so encouraged to see their children interacting in the wild.
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Yeah.
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Like without you know, there's that song, it's like they will know we are Christians by our love.
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And I think we have so many people that come up on the beach trip and they're like, y'all must be a church group.
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Yeah.
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And I'm like, what an amazing thing that our kids get to be a part of that.
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Right.
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And sh and and people recognize it and encouraged and that it's not, it's it's not this that like it's done out of respect and that they they're like, oh, yeah.
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And um, yeah, when 80 kids are dropped at the uh the public's
publics shopping for the week, which could be uh an exercise of chaos and which it is a bit chaotic, but I even just watching the kids yield to families that are in there, or I just think it's it's it's a good practice field, if you will, of operating, you know, outside you the community of people you know and what that looks like.
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And how does that look different then?
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As being a member of LMPC, does that look different than maybe just 80 kids that aren't a part of the and I think it it definitely you it makes a difference?
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And as you said, people, I mean, I don't think I've been to the beach trip where there haven't been several of those that were pointed out.
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A fun quick little story.
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We have a the Publix that we go to in Hilton Head.
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Um there's one Publix on the island that stays open till 9:30 or 9, and then there's one that stays open till 10 p.m.
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And so we, even though the one that closes earlier is closer to us, we have to go to the other one because we typically can't get out in time.
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But what a gift it's been because the first year that post-COVID that we went, we're like, I'm like, oh gosh, here we go.
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We're this Publix is gonna absolutely hate us.
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And we went and um, you know, we prep the kids for how we anticipate and expect for them to interact with those that are shopping and are rolling their eyes when they see our buses pull up.
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But there is a worker at Publix who has cared for our group.
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He calls me regularly.
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Um, an older man, he gives to this church.
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Um it is an amazing thing to be a part of that, and for him um to be an older resident in Hilton Head Island who looks forward to our group coming.
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He comes and joins us for dinner.
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Like he loves our group and has called me many times.
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Like, how do I give financially to your church?
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I am not a member there.
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I have never visited, I don't ever plan to come to Chattanooga, but I want to be a part of what y'all are doing.
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And I'm like, guys, that is what y'all are doing is if parent, I wish parents could, because sometimes parents are like, oh my gosh, you should see them at our house.
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But the way that your kids are growing and moving and shaking in the world around them is really cool.
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So um one check watching the kids.
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My favorite is to get it done and then stand at like customer service and watch our kids
come through the line because when they figure out they can get another tub of cookies or um more eggs or they've got 10 more bucks together.
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They got 10 bucks.
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They they have people strategically placed throughout the store to grab something else.
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Yeah, it's quite a sight.
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I think uh two more questions for you.
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Uh what you've kind of touched on some of this, but if you had to say, what do you just most enjoy about working?
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What do you most enjoy about high school girls?
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Uh the stage of life they're in, um just their demeanor, what is it about them that excites you?
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I think one of the most meaningful parts, um, one, their willingness to just be transparent, which I have to say, I mean, while there have been small groups where maybe it would take longer to get there, um for the most part, just the willingness for girls to transparently transparently live out or share things has been really meaningful.
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And I've had the privilege of having some where I had them as ninth or tenth graders until they graduated.
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And the metamorphosis of watching is um is really beautiful.
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The the stories used to be the bane of my existence, as Annie knows.
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Um I I I don't know, I I guess I maybe I just didn't understand fully, but I it once I felt like I had experienced stories, especially um one girl comes to mind that I got to hear a compilation of the I got the freshman, sophomore, junior, and senior.
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And what a gift that was to because I saved my notes from years before and add to.
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So each year I come in with a little bit of context, more than I had the last year.
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But watching the build of life and um where they are spiritually and questions they're asking, and it is really a beautiful thing that you've gotten to be alongside of girls to do that.
00:26:31.839 --> 00:27:11.680
And um, they so appreciate just even the smallest acts of investing outside, you know, to come to a play of theirs or to to come to a sporting event or something, is you know, they get so excited, and where you would think sometimes they would shy away from you publicly is so generous and sweet that they would um so I think, you know, and having three boys, I am a girl, but it just it that part has been really fun just to see contemporaries that, you know, peers of theirs that are girls and what that looks like on that side has been just a sweet gift.
00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:23.680
They can uh be an open book, which is helps me in my adult life realize like the importance of vulnerability in safe spaces, and I think as we get older, we can get more hardened.
00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:32.720
And I am reminded every Wednesday in my group that it is a beauty to share your life with people um in trusted spaces.
00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:52.000
So um closing out here, um, for any parents listening, if if you could shed one piece of advice to parents listening wondering how to better care for their high school aged children, what would you say?
00:27:52.160 --> 00:28:04.319
As someone who gets to see their kids in not a parenting role and gets to hear them in a small group setting, like what would be some advice that you would shed if stay plugged in?
00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:26.720
You know, I think um being a mom of boys, I can't say what it was like to parent a girl because I I don't, I know um I loved asking questions, hoping to elicit, like get a conversation going, which was pretty futile, um, because they were often one-word answers.
00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:51.519
But um uh but girls do are seem open to talking, and I I think it's easy to kind of feel um pushed away at this time because they're you know, they're naturally learn, they're pushing towards adulthood and they're things they're pushing away from on you, but it's to stay engaged, they do need you.
00:28:51.680 --> 00:29:18.559
Friends are really important, um, as parents probably know, but it it's not a time just to check out and think, okay, well, right now is friend time, you know, and um because there there are times where they really do need you, and if you've disengaged from them, then it's I think it's really hard, but just you know, take them where they where they are and what they'll give you.
00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:27.759
But I would really encourage just to stay plugged in and um interested in what they're doing because it is it is important.
00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:33.680
Um it is important to them, and I think you know it's they notice.
00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:40.640
They they do notice and they notice when you show up and stuff, even though they may not acknowledge it at the at the time.
00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:50.960
I think that it does um give them such a sense of belonging and importance and to shy away from that I think would be a mistake.
00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:58.640
Yeah, and um I um yeah, and I think being vulnerable and transparent with them.
00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:05.359
Um I've found like things that I'm learning in quiet time or being challenged on.
00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:09.839
I think as a parent you can do the same of well, that's an answer to prayer.
00:30:09.920 --> 00:30:18.559
Just them seeing that your faith, how it is a part of your the fabric of your life is a is a great testament to them.
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:27.359
And whether that's acknowledged or how or talked to at this point, maybe not, but I think they will draw on that as they you know leave.
00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:45.359
Um we we had one of our kids that really um struggled at first going away to college, and um Aaron and Lynn were so
instrumental in walking me, well, Carter and me, through that, but especially me.
00:30:45.519 --> 00:31:12.480
And um I, you know, it the youth is such a gift, but even just staying plugged in where you um are part of, you are part of the youth group too, we're a team working together just in different places, but it was such an important part even after they left of because I knew, I mean, I couldn't it would take two hands to name all the people that have been instrumental in their life and apart.
00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:20.960
And um uh that that is something that I felt like I really drew on um as as the kids left.
00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:44.799
But I would tell them just to stay in there, you know, and um and that you really would be uh proud of them if you could see them in other venues and places because I do feel like that's yeah, it it comes out what you know the impact of the you know their faith has had on on living life out.
00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:57.359
And um yeah, and I just a plug, something that I I shared in um when my mom and I uh talked with the podcast was the importance of the youth group.
00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:08.400
And I'm amazed at how many families I feel like are pulled to our church through our youth group program because the kids it is such a big part of their life.
00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:19.039
I think it has brought families here to be a part of this broader community, church community, because of what is happening in the youth program.
00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:21.200
And so it brought my family.
00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:22.160
Yeah, yeah.
00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:26.079
I I think it's so important that it's it's not just speaking to youth.
00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:33.680
It truly is, you know, um a family you know, uh impact.
00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:35.759
So yeah.
00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:47.039
Well, I uh I could not thank you enough genuinely for the way that you think about it, the way that you love students.
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:51.599
It is like truly, I have like a lump in my throat.
00:32:51.680 --> 00:33:05.039
Just it's a deep honor to be beside other people that love Jesus and love kids, and it ministry can feel lonely at times.
00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:08.079
It can feel isolating, it can feel too big.
00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:23.759
Uh, but to have trusted uh people that walk with you is the biggest gift to me, to Josh, to Aaron, uh, to Molly, to Nathan.
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:33.920
So um we are deeply appreciative of your friendship and um yeah, your heart for poor people.
00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:38.240
It's why I keep asking you to do everything with me because I don't want to do anything if you're not there.
00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:39.680
Broken vessels.
00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:40.160
Yeah.
00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:45.920
Um, so um thank you for being here and thank you to all of you who are listening.
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:50.240
Um, we hope you will continue to join us for future episodes.
00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:56.640
Be sure to subscribe so you can get those and share them with fellow LMPC folks, and uh that's it.