KOPYA NG SALIN 🔗
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If you're an automotive company, maybe you want to book test drives.
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If you're a travel company, you want someone to book a holiday.
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I think for us it is an evolution of where we're at today.
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We have always measured very much in the mobile space.
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We've now moved to web.
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So we wouldn't be talking about changes and shifts in the industry that matter if we didn't get to measurement and we didn't get to what's next in measurement.
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I have both with you, Lex, from Apps Fire.
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And I'm talking to a number of people at Appsfire, but you're genuinely really new because you're also new to Apps Fire.
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Tell me a little bit about your background there.
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Six months into the role.
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My background has very much come from the omnichannel measurement space, particularly around being able to take offline data that have been very much censoring customer data attributes, purchases, and connect that into the online world to be able to drive paid media and advertising.
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Yeah.
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I've had a pretty international role.
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Born and raised in Australia, worked there, moved to Singapore for a couple of years to do some kind of data marketplace partnerships.
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Then found myself in the UK for the last eight years, helping grow and expand markets for various technologies, people, great brands, been pretty amazing.
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So you have an announcement.
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You're bringing together two sides of discovery, measurement, In a sense, the organic.
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Many of you may know AppSlive from the mobile space.
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We've done an amazing job over the last 15 years to measure mobile effectiveness.
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Late last year, we made an announcement that we're going beyond mobile and moving into Omnichannel.
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Yes.
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And when we think about omnichannel, one of the core things that you have to be able to measure are all the emerging channels coming up, right?
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And as we know with the evolution of AI, search and discovery is becoming extremely prominent.
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Yes.
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It's rethinking the way consumers behave, it's rethinking the way that the consideration funnel happens.
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So most marketers are starting to look into this very much from an experimental layer at this point.
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If it's going to move from an experimental budget onto the standard media plan, you need
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to be able to measure it.
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Yes.
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What we're announcing is actually the ability to measure both earned and paid across a lot of the AI engines, whether that be chat, Claude, but if you're a marketer, you get the same benefit that you always had with AppFly, which is the deduplicated neutral measurement, the ability to optimize based on the signals that pass through that.
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But now new channel and new discovery path so you can continue to optimize and grow and understand what's working and what's not.
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And I think that's really so timely.
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I have had publishers on mobile groove.
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I pose the question A year from now, what do you want to do?
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Do you want to be by more users, by more consumers?
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Or do you want to be found recommended and put in front of consumers through an AI bot?
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And they're like, we want bot traffic.
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And I thought that was so intriguing.
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When you measure this, what metrics are we looking at?
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I think most marketers are ultimately trying to answer one very simple question is did I my investment or my marketing deliver a sale, a purchase?
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So I think where marketers ultimately want to get to is being able to understand, did that as a new search and discovery channel convert to a transaction, right?
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That doesn't mean every campaign needs to be the same, right?
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You have differing campaigns across what you're trying to achieve.
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If you're an automotive company, maybe you want to book test drives.
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If you're a travel company, you want someone to book a holiday or upsell the hotel along with the the airline.
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If you're a retailer, you want someone to purchase in your store.
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So being able to measure this gives brands the ability to choose the KPI that they want to measure.
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Ultimately also allows them to get to the point where they can understand, did it convert?
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And did I drive a sale?
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So I think we'll see the purchase continue to be even more and more prominent.
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Transactions, you've done that before.
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Is that what we're looking at when we think about this type of discovery and this type of advertising?
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I think for us it is an evolution of where we're at today.
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We have always measured very much in the mobile space.
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We've now moved to web.
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We are now looking at how do we bring our offline transactional data into that equation as it stands today?
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This just appears in another channel on that dashboard or through a signal.
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And so we don't believe it's going to be quite difficult for advertisers to be able to adopt and understand this.
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Yeah.
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How do I ensure that I have visibility if I'm thinking of a more over-owned?
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Yeah.
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How do I understand from a paid perspective?
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Did my actual creative or offer or all those elements work as a part of those pieces?
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You spoke about this earlier.
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You can go from CTV to mobile to where being able to understand the flow of which order that happens changes the conversion path and channel.
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So from an appslide perspective, we see it as an evolution.
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You need to help guide our marketers through these results on how to tweak all those elements through the process.
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So you have a creative report.
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What does I think for this channel look like?
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I would say maybe halfway in between.
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If you think about it as another channel, we understand kind of how to optimize through the process, what points I want to be able to optimize on, what signals.
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Um, but being able to understand maybe something works a little bit more effectively in this search and discovery that hasn't worked on maybe traditional search or traditional paid media, whether you're doing it across Meta, Google, and and any other kind of network, is something that will need to understand.
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So I don't think the playbook is set.
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I don't think the playbook is ever set.
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But that's also very exciting because there are many brands that can pioneer, there can many brands that can be first movers and drive this advantage and use it to their you know to like the very, very early days of TikTok, you know.
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You know, a little bit of maybe Reddit was very, you know, very cool and very hot.
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Still is.
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Yep.
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But if you missed out entirely on that one, you might be able to get in on this one because small and mid-sized publishers.
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This is not only about AEO, and it's also the journey.
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Um just want to get to one last question here.
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Let's talk about the experience itself.
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How do we get to a point that we're not going to
get back into the trap of basically producing great conversion?
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I think it's still very much a learning process.
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I think we are kind of grappling with two things starting to converge.
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If you think about media in a very traditional sense, we are using very standard formats and creatives.
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Even when you're kind of working with ChatGPT, you know, it's very much that recommendation based on those coming in.
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But if you think about future, you know, you have the whole agentic space coming in.
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Yes.
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Is it going to be powered by agents?
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I think the way that they reflect on it is I remember when we started the programmatic advertising space, right?
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And we had all these display banners like plastered everywhere, takeovers, and it's quite a confronting experience.
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Yes.
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And then we saw this inflow of kind of native advertising, which made it feel a lot more harmonious.
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It didn't feel like something was in your face as a consumer.
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And I think that's the process we're going to see through these discovery channels as well.
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And it's going to be understanding the outcomes that will allow to be able to allow us to be able to tweak how this user experience happens over time.
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I love to sort of sum it up and say, all right, and finish the sentence for me.
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Because we are now in the AI discovery era.
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Yeah.
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So the age of agents, that is where we are.
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And the one metric marketers can no longer ignore is customer lifetime value.
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Oh, we're back to that.
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Yeah.
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I think we ever think comes back to that.
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What I don't want to do is create a new mixed metric.
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I think we have so many.
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We're so good at that, but I think it just deals down to the customer, the value that you provide, the relationship that you have, and how you as a brand, you know, work to maximize that.
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That is why we have media and marketing investment at the end of the day.
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Excellent.
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That's also why we have interviews.
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We have a bit of a relationship.
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And I look forward to continuing the conversation with you like that.
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And what a time to join.
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Very excited.
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Thank you, Veggy.
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Thank you for your time today.