KOPYA NG SALIN 🔗
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All right, all right, everyone, welcome back to the God Attachment Healing Podcast.
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I'm doing a series right now on betrayal trauma with Ms Kendra King and she was so great in our first episode sharing about what betrayal trauma is and what that healing process can look like for people.
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And today we're going to talk a little bit deeper, a little bit more about sex addicts and what that restoration process and redemption process looks like afterwards.
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This is again a topic that happens in Christian circles and we don't talk about it openly enough and, as we learned in our last episode, one of the healing components to dealing with betrayal trauma is complete vulnerability and openness and putting everything on the table, which is painful, right, and especially when it comes to this idea of having a spouse or partner that is a sex addict.
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You know that creates this ongoing feelings of PTSD symptoms, right of betrayal, and maybe even make some question their faith.
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So we'll talk a little bit about that what that process looks like, what restoration can look like.
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Does it always mean reconciliation and even touch on the aspect of forgiveness?
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But, kendra, welcome back to the show.
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It's good having you.
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Thank you, it was so good to do the first episode and I am so honored to be back to the show.
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It's good having you.
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Thank you, it was so good to do the first episode and I am so honored to be back for the second one awesome, awesome, I am as well.
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This is this is a great topic to discuss, not so much because it's uh, obviously it's not a a fun topic, but it's a necessary topic, right one that needs to discussed, and even you mentioned in the last episode about how the church handles things and due to not being equipped to do so or only to being taught.
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One way which we discussed was sometimes we try to approach emotional, mental, physical aspects by only addressing the spiritual, and that's just not the way that God wired us right.
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Right.
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Right, right.
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But today's topic is a little bit more specific, and this is a growing problem for both men and women.
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Men have been more known to be the sex addicts.
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Right Right.
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There's this growing literature on women also participating in this.
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Yes, yes, can you share a little bit about that, like what you've seen, because this is not something that this is something that the culture has shifted.
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I think in men and women.
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But yeah what have you seen regarding that?
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So I believe, in regards to the men being more prevalent in this particular field, it's just because of how they get caught right.
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There's a sense of of women being able to kind of manipulate and kind of uh, communicate in a way, or or operate in a way where it's kind of low-key.
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It's not, it's more, you can explain things away.
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It's not as as just out there, as as men engage in it.
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So it's it's more subtle.
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Women are more subtle in the way they approach things.
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However, it it still hurts the same way, it still hurts the same way.
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It still hurts.
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The same way and, from my level of understanding, is that there's some men that stay, some men do not.
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There's a nature.
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I think it has a lot to do with how the societal norms and stereotypes of men and women and the expectations of well, if a man cheats on a woman, she should stay.
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In comparison, if a woman cheats on a man, you just leave her.
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Why?
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Why?
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I've always had that question.
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It's like this hierarchy, just like when they talk about equality and work and pay and all.
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It's the same setup in relationships and it's unfortunate because men and women, both are human beings.
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There's still a level of hurt, there's still a level of betrayal.
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However, there's still a grace that should be shown, especially if she wants to do better, be better, show you something different, work on herself.
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I think she's owed the same, the same grace, as if the shoe was on the other foot these are just my thoughts.
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It's just my thoughts, you know, but it's it's.
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It's unfair at times and, just like when it comes to domestic violence, it's more of a shame on men.
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Women do the same thing.
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It's just more subtle, it's emotional, it's verbal, it's not as physical in nature Can be, but I feel as though there is a balance in engagement on both ends.
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Yeah, yeah, no, that's great insight.
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You know you mentioned that it looks more subtle for women than it does for men.
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Cheating with another person, like having sex with another person, and just kind of being in that addictive cycle of just choosing all
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these different, so constant cheating, right, and then you have the porn addiction, which is okay, that's your go-to for releasing and so on, and it's a consistent thing that's caused significant issues in the relationship and that's typically associated with men, but with women you said that it's more subtle.
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Now, by subtle, do you mean that they're not really seeking out relationships sexually or are you saying that it's more emotional and therefore it's not the same gravity as them?
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As, like, what are you referring to when you say that it's more subtle for women?
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oh sam, oh sam.
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Yes, it's more so emotional because at times not all men, but a lot struggle with being able to hold space emotionally for their partner because there was a lack of cultivation emotionally when they were growing up in childhood or they've had experiences in previous intimate relationships where their emotions were weaponized against them in a sense of oh, you're not man enough, I need you to be more whatever, whatever masculine and all this other stuff, and it's just like okay.
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So when they get in a relationship with a woman who they're trying to be with or establish a relationship they're they're struggling with, how do I show up?
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well some may show up in a way where they can't connect emotionally.
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So the woman goes out, finds a man who is more so vulnerable and sharing, holding space for how she feels maybe being engaging and emotional connection was her too.
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Whatever the case may be, or you can have a man who is vulnerable, or you can have a man who is vulnerable with his significant other or his spouse, and the woman is just like I'm not trying to engage in that, because she has her own emotional detachment, emotional trauma that she's experienced at some point in her life and she's like I am not trying to go there, but you know that I just want a man to show up for me in a materialistic sense or in a sense of presenting masculine protection and all this.
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I'm not trying to go down that road with being vulnerable and sharing my emotions.
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So, it could be either or Okay.
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So they seek that out is what you're saying, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, to avoid the emotional.
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To go back to those emotions, yes, yes, to avoid the emotional, to going back to those emotions.
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Yes, yes, because there are women out here who lack emotional connection or lack being able to be vulnerable with their emotions, share them, express them, because they observed women that shared the same behaviors or they tried to engage in vulnerabilities emotionally and they were dismissed or neglected or gaslit or whatever the case may
be.
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So there's some type of emotional trauma that they've experienced as well that keeps them from being able to connect with a more vulnerable man.
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Okay, yeah, yeah.
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So that brings up one of the common questions I think that people have is is it true, based on your experience and what you've seen in the literature, the idea of men typically cheat?
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It's a physical thing?
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not emotional right, so it's just for whatever.
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It is.
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A release, whatever the case was not that's justifiable, but that's the reason.
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And for women it's more emotional.
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So if they're not getting emotional needs met in the relationship, in the marriage, they find it somewhere else and that opens the door for sexual encounters.
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Is that what?
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you're seeing.
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Yes, that is the majority of what it looks like.
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For men it's a majority, I would say there's still.
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I would say there's still room for those who wears the opposite right, but for the majority it's a physical.
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You hear like, oh, I didn't really love her, I really didn't like her like that.
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She provided me sexual engagements that I didn't get from you, so then you have that blaming thing again you weren't fulfilling me sexually, she did, and that's all it was about, or whatever the case would be.
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And then you have the woman who's just like you weren't there for me emotionally and I didn't feel safe with talking to you about my feelings and you just ignored me or you didn't have anything to say.
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So I went over here and was talking to him and he made me feel seen and heard and he listened to me and all this other stuff.
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That is the majority of what it looks like.
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When it comes to the gender comparisons, however, there are outliers, yeah.
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Yeah, there are outliers out there, but literature wise, what I've seen is the majority.
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Yeah.
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That's kind of the setup.
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At what point does it become an addiction?
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Right, there's a lot of back and forth around the word addiction, right?
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Because some people talk about it as a biological thing.
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So they try to explain it like in evolutionary terms where well, you're wired this way, you're wired to seek out pleasure.
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And this comes into conflict for christians, because the christian belief is right we die to sin, we die to ourselves.
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So there has to be kind of a suppression of that.
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Uh, yeah, I mean a killing of that sin, right?
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Um, so, so, yeah, so, so what does addiction actually look like?
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When we talk about addiction, it sounds like so far we've been talking about it's a one-time thing, a two-time thing.
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Maybe there's forgiveness and you try to work on things moving forward.
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But when we're talking about addiction, we're talking about something that's been continuous, that has been very prevalent, maybe has been going on for a long time.
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Yeah, what do you refer to when we talk about addiction, and sex addiction in particular?
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Okay, so specifically with sex addiction or just addiction in general, let's just define addiction in general right Addiction, anything that you engage in an unhealthy way that disrupts every aspect of your life relationships, work, a relationship with yourself, just it completely.
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You are so consumed in this particular thing that you it takes prevalence over anything.
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Or, if you don't want to use the word, addiction, compulsivity, you're compulsively engaging in this, whatever this is on a consistent basis where it keeps you so consumed, but that's all you want to do.
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So that is addiction, or AKA addiction, compulsivity, right, and then help in an unhealthy engagement in something.
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Yeah, right, okay.
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So to address the, the biological pleasure, christianity, we die to self, all this other stuff.
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You are human.
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Okay, you have dopamine in your brain.
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Anything that triggers that dopamine to flow, guess what?
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It's pleasurable, I don't care if it's you reading a book, you going outside, you feel the sun, you watering your plants, you walking your dog it triggers dopamine.
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Okay, that doesn't go.
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That's how you're made up genetically.
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However, when you're constantly triggering that dopamine to flow in something that's unhealthy, that becomes addiction or compulsivity.
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That's unhealthy.
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So you can die to flesh all you want to as a believer, right, it's dopamine still is there.
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It does not go away yeah, yeah and it's something that you have to be mindful of and one and one huge piece of that, too, is that the dopamine.
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Once you receive a certain amount of it, the next step is wanting more,
more.
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It goes into that deeper cycle, right?
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yes, yes, so that is the biological makeup of that.
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For those who want to side with the more religious view, the more Christian, structured, strict view you're human.
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It doesn't go away.
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Yeah, that's good.
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Know that If you don't take anything from this podcast.
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Please take that, Take that.
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No, that's good, that's good.
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So we're saying, then, that people who are addicted allow for this space in their life sexual addiction, whatever that is to take over, so much so that it disrupts all the other areas of their lives yes, addictive nature, and so on.
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So what, what characteristics do they share Like?
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Do they have certain either personality characteristics or habits that make them more prone to to being addicted, or is it just okay.
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So and not to interrupt him.
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No, you're good, I apologize, you're good.
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It can be.
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It could be biological right.
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It could be biological right, say, there is addiction or mental health struggles within parents, grandparents right Sets up patterns.
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It could be societal right we were exposed from our peers, siblings, you know, and that built it, it up.
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Or it could be something that you just kind of fall into and that you continuously you trigger that dopamine and you just build it up, build it up, building.
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You're constantly chasing that high, so there's different levels of how it can form.
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However, it still ends up leading to the same thing.
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Okay, and you know, one of the things that we often look to, and you kind of touched on it the idea of history or biology.
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But there is this one piece of level of exposure you kind of mentioned that.
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And I think what we're finding is that the youngest age and this is for boys, I don't know what it is for girls, it might be around the same age exposure to pornography is.
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I think it's like six years old the last time I read, and so that kind of sets up.
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And I've had a lot of clients who talk about the level of exposure and it could have been in passing, was a, an uncle or a friend that showed them something and then from that point on, moving forward.
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So you have these, these, uh, these clients who come in, they enter a relationship and this has been going on for for years right and it may be every couple of months, or or maybe they start with it every other day, or whatever the case, is regarding the addictive piece.
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What do you see mostly regarding like?
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you see a lot of people who, when they share their story, it started in their childhood, like that, they were exposed to pornography early on so you have a level of exposure when it comes to porn, or level of exposure when it comes to just sexual topics in nature, or you have sexual trauma.
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Yeah, so there's a lot of sexual trauma there with men and women.
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It's so sad.
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It is sad.
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It is sad and oh, I'm going to go there because this is the space Within the Christian body.
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Yeah, yeah it's so deep because it's it could have happened within the church, within the state, like it's.
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It's so deep, but we sweep it under the rug.
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We sweep it under the rug until it presents itself in a more public form and then you want to address it right right but there's a level of let's hide it, let's keep it secret, specifically in the church.
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Yeah, in all religions, but in the church, and it doesn't matter Catholic, christian, whatever it's in the church and it's sad or it's familial and you're sweeping it under the rug, especially when it comes to black and brown people.
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Yeah.
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You know uncles, cousins, cousins, oh you know if it's shared or if, if the the, the person tells their parents or tell somebody, oh, it's like a little quick, let's hurry up and like so this will address it, but you still have your child exposed to this person because the person's part of the family.
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But you don't want to cause any ripple effects and I've had clients to where it was sexual trauma from their own parents and it's just in this, this hiding the secrecy.
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Then the church knew about it and all this stuff happened, but it was still a level like that is re-traumatizing over and normalizing it instead of addressing it and calling it for what it is right so I have a big issue when it comes to church and religion and familial and in hiding and yeah, it's a trigger for me it's a trigger for me, because I see it, I see it and it's sad.
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It's really sad.
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It really is, because it puts that justice hat on for us, right, Because you wish you could do something, and both the client themselves feel powerless in that situation because it's a parent, it's a family member or not being believed, right, and there is that shock factor.
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I think that for the people, whether it be the parents or people in the church, when they
hear it it's almost, it's unbelievable, right.
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They think there's no way my brother, sister would have done that or my aunt would have done that.
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So yeah.
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So how does that show up then?
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Because typically, yeah.
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So how does that show up then?
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Because typically, I feel like children are not hurt, right, there's that piece of children are not hurt, that sometimes they lie and all of these things.
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So when it's something big like this, I think what keeps it hidden is the shame that the people have for allowing it in some way to happen.
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Does that sound about right?
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Yes, and on top of that, sam, you shift the blame onto the child.
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Yeah, it's the child.
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Oh well, you shouldn't have been too close, or you shouldn't have worn that, or you shouldn't have been there, and all this.
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This is a child.
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Yeah, an adolescent, all this.
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This is a child, yeah, an adolescent, and you're holding them accountable for trauma that was impacted and projected upon them.
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How dare you?
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How dare you?
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And then, when it's unresolved, then they become adults and they start acting out in these unhealthy, compulsive ways Sexually, porn, drugs, alcohol, whatever.
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They start acting out in these unhealthy, compulsive ways sexually, porn, drugs, alcohol, whatever.
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And you're trying to figure out where it all started.
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Well, it started when they shared that they were sexually traumatized by a family member about, by someone within the church and, excuse me, they went to tell the person they felt emotionally safe with and they didn't believe them and then blamed them and then still subjected them to the person that did it yeah yeah oh, it's so deep, sam, it's so deep, it's so deep and it's so sad.
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It's so sad, it's so deep and it's so sad.
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It's so sad and it's just like.
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That is where the emotional safety, feeling seen and feeling hurt that can't go to my family or people that I feel that protect me.
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I don't feel safe with them.
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If I don't feel safe with them, who can I feel safe with?
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That's true.
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Yeah, so they take that into relationships and not being able to be fully vulnerable because at some point they're not going to be believed or heard or something which continues to be backing out.
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Yes, they were violated wow, no, this is really.
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This is really powerful, kendra.
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I think that is something that maybe we can address here, where, um, when parents hear something like, or just anyone in the church, when they hear something like this about sexual abuse, someone gets accused.
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Hey, so and so touchedand-so touched me in this way.
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They did this.
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What should that process look like for them to look into that?
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Because we want to protect the children and we want to go and directly ask, maybe the person that was accused.
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Yeah, I'm trying to figure out.
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What could we share with the audience that?
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how do you address an issue like that?
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Well, number one if it's a child, believe them Anything sexual in nature.
00:23:12.519 --> 00:23:31.821
If they come to you and they're like hey, so-and-so touched me and it made me feel uncomfortable, or they did, however, they believe it's a child no child should be talking to you or sharing things of sexual nature who weren't exposed.
00:23:32.202 --> 00:23:33.484
So believe them.
00:23:33.484 --> 00:23:40.621
Believe them and then you start the process of let's really investigate this.
00:23:40.621 --> 00:23:46.654
Let us, let's confront this person I don't care who is there with you to confront the person.
00:23:46.654 --> 00:23:53.217
We need to confront this person and we need to figure out a way to be able to keep this baby safe.
00:23:53.217 --> 00:24:05.468
If it's, if it's letting the person go out the church, disconnect, making sure that this person, if it's a family member, making sure that this person is not around this child, I don't care what you do.
00:24:05.468 --> 00:24:19.872
But if you don't, you are setting this child up to be traumatized and live a life as an adult of not being emotionally safe, not secure, validated.
00:24:19.872 --> 00:24:23.156
It's just going to be a snowball effect.
00:24:23.156 --> 00:24:24.617
Like it's just going to be a snowball effect.
00:24:24.758 --> 00:24:32.603
And if we're going to sit up here and say our children are our future and we have to protect the babies, and all that other stuff, walk in that.
00:24:32.603 --> 00:24:33.282
Yeah.
00:24:33.663 --> 00:24:34.683
Walk in that.
00:24:34.683 --> 00:24:47.073
Don't just give lip service to that, because you don't understand what that essentially will do to them if they don't feel a sense of protection.
00:24:47.073 --> 00:24:57.223
I don't care.
00:24:57.223 --> 00:24:59.535
If it does sound far-fetched, investigate it thoroughly, thoroughly.
00:24:59.535 --> 00:25:10.849
So it's really hard when it comes to addressing sexual trauma that has been inflicted upon a child within a
family setting or within the church setting.
00:25:10.849 --> 00:25:12.675
It is hard because there is a sense of of well, how am I gonna look?
00:25:13.718 --> 00:25:16.563
or how is the, how is the church gonna look like it's?
00:25:16.563 --> 00:25:20.777
If you're more worried about your reputation?
00:25:20.777 --> 00:25:23.382
Than the protection of an individual.
00:25:23.382 --> 00:25:27.548
You are not in the service of others at all.
00:25:27.548 --> 00:25:32.506
You do not belong in any position of power to help people do anything.
00:25:32.506 --> 00:25:33.188
Yeah.
00:25:33.188 --> 00:25:36.806
Because those are the most vulnerable, are our children.
00:25:36.806 --> 00:25:41.586
So you have an obligation to exercise that.
00:25:41.586 --> 00:25:52.686
You have a responsibility to really protect them and show them the way, because if you don't, it's going to show up, it's going to show up.
00:25:55.318 --> 00:26:04.617
Yeah, I was thinking about children usually go to the people that they feel safest with and they share with them and we're reversing, let's say, that that parent addresses like who did this?
00:26:04.617 --> 00:26:06.865
They look into it, they protect the child.
00:26:06.865 --> 00:26:24.570
That security or that attachment to that security figure becomes strengthened because I trusted you with something that I feel scared about sharing with you, that I know could probably cause some issues, and you protected me in defending so that becomes like the strongest bond that you would have.
00:26:24.611 --> 00:26:41.941
Yes, it does, and when they're representing God, or when they are in the church, like again, it changes or connects to their view of God, like God protected me, he's my family, he's this person, but to your point, it is sad that we still hear that these stories are happening within.
00:26:41.961 --> 00:26:42.402
The church.
00:26:42.823 --> 00:26:55.008
But it brings up another issue where the ones who are not addressing it and I have seen this where they have not dealt with something that they have experienced themselves- right.
00:26:55.008 --> 00:27:04.384
Because we usually see, like this trend of if someone was sexually abused, then their generation also becomes that and there's shame around it.
00:27:04.384 --> 00:27:08.765
There's so much shame around it, um, and I wonder if you've seen that as well.
00:27:08.765 --> 00:27:12.923
Like this, this generation, it's not a generational, that it has to happen.
00:27:12.923 --> 00:27:18.066
I don't believe in deterministic things like that but it's more you do see a pattern of if someone was sexually abused.
00:27:18.448 --> 00:27:27.900
That tends to happen in the next generation and so on and for whatever reason, the setting the environment, uh, the not dealing with the shame, yeah, what are your thoughts on that?
00:27:28.221 --> 00:27:34.778
so I I classify it or give it a name of generational dysfunction.
00:27:34.778 --> 00:27:44.525
Right, you say, say your mom had an experience like that.
00:27:44.525 --> 00:27:57.882
You come to her and it's a trigger because she went through the same thing but wasn't protected, wasn't validated, there was nothing, nothing happened.
00:27:57.882 --> 00:28:01.261
They don't know how to show up because they're triggered.
00:28:01.261 --> 00:28:03.643
That inner child who had that.
00:28:03.643 --> 00:28:04.859
You don't know what to do.
00:28:04.859 --> 00:28:10.416
You had no form of of example on how to address these things.
00:28:10.416 --> 00:28:12.480
And it does fall.
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:22.482
Yeah, and so the default is well, I'm going to engage in the same behaviors that people engaged in when it happened to me yeah.
00:28:23.144 --> 00:28:31.857
So you're creating this generational dysfunction of pattern and it just keeps until somebody stops it.
00:28:31.857 --> 00:28:42.402
Somebody says no, I am not going to sweep this under the rug, act like this is not happening, ignore it whatever, I'm not going to do this anymore.
00:28:42.402 --> 00:28:46.488
So it has to be an intentional choice of.
00:28:46.488 --> 00:28:54.807
I don't care what this looks like and how this can make me seem to other people, it's gotta stop, it's gotta stop.
00:28:54.807 --> 00:29:12.622
So, yes, it is a sense of of of how we say when somebody inflicts sexual trauma on somebody else, this probably happened to them just in the same.
00:29:12.622 --> 00:29:31.489
When somebody's experienced sexual trauma and they have it in unresolved and then their child or a family member comes to them and shares that and they don't they respond the same way that somebody responded to their situation and it was unhealthy and it wasn't proactive and it didn't protect them.
00:29:32.076 --> 00:29:41.221
It's the same, it's the same thing yeah same thing, oh wow, such a tough topic, such a tough.
00:29:41.241 --> 00:29:45.707
Oh sam, it is it is, but it's like we gotta stop.
00:29:45.707 --> 00:29:47.229
We gotta stop hiding.
00:29:47.229 --> 00:29:52.501
I'm so tired of hiding, I'm so tired of the church hiding from the deeper issues.
00:29:52.501 --> 00:30:01.265
You want to talk about all this other stuff and just skim on this topic and it's just like no, I'm, I'm, I am, I am not that person.
00:30:01.265 --> 00:30:02.788
I am not that person.
00:30:02.788 --> 00:30:04.069
I am not that Christian.
00:30:04.069 --> 00:30:08.259
I am not that believer, because I have personal experience.
00:30:08.259 --> 00:30:17.582
So that shifts my approach, because not only am I professionally knowledgeable and understand, but also know it from a personal perspective.
00:30:17.582 --> 00:30:18.704
And I'm not.
00:30:18.944 --> 00:30:19.405
I'm not.
00:30:19.405 --> 00:30:20.916
No, I'm obligated.
00:30:20.916 --> 00:30:26.368
God has called me to use my voice to share my story.
00:30:26.368 --> 00:30:32.567
I don't got no shame or no guilt in anything that I've experienced, because it helps shift and
change lives.
00:30:32.567 --> 00:30:40.009
It brings light to people's darkness and it gives them a sense of hope and inspiration and motivation to do something.
00:30:40.009 --> 00:30:47.362
You have to do something in order to change or shift the narrative, so I will talk about it.
00:30:47.623 --> 00:30:50.624
whether it be a church or whether it be out in the street.
00:30:50.624 --> 00:30:51.346
I don't care.
00:30:51.346 --> 00:30:52.892
This is the whole.
00:30:52.892 --> 00:30:54.036
This is the whole purpose.
00:30:54.036 --> 00:30:54.416
We don't.
00:30:54.416 --> 00:31:01.215
We don't engage in passions and callings and being chosen just so we can hide our light.
00:31:01.215 --> 00:31:04.201
God did not call us to hide our light at all.
00:31:04.201 --> 00:31:06.885
You're supposed to be the salt and the light of the earth, right?
00:31:06.885 --> 00:31:07.667
Well, how do you do it?
00:31:07.667 --> 00:31:08.568
You go out there.
00:31:09.015 --> 00:31:17.767
You go out there in all your glory and you believe God, he's going to protect you and keep you while you're out here trying to help others.
00:31:17.767 --> 00:31:23.065
And you use your story, you use your example to change and shift things.
00:31:23.065 --> 00:31:28.162
That is how people become better and healthier versions of themselves.
00:31:28.162 --> 00:31:32.606
You use yourself as a example.
00:31:32.606 --> 00:31:35.761
As a sacrifice, you lay yourself on the altar.
00:31:37.237 --> 00:31:38.140
I love that, kendra.
00:31:38.140 --> 00:31:39.183
I love that.
00:31:39.183 --> 00:31:45.762
I love your heart for this space and for helping people in that and bringing awareness to it, because I'm with you.
00:31:45.762 --> 00:31:53.846
These are things that need to be discussed and you know the title of this podcast is God Attachment Healing.
00:31:54.394 --> 00:31:59.487
And the reason a lot of hurt, because a lot of hurt was happening within the church.
00:31:59.487 --> 00:32:05.900
I was noticing that people start to shift in their attachment or relationship with God and so, okay.
00:32:05.900 --> 00:32:07.256
So how does that healing look like?
00:32:07.256 --> 00:32:10.064
So, if we're hurt in relationship, we're in a healing relationship.
00:32:10.064 --> 00:32:15.309
That's relationship with people that are trustworthy and also in a relationship with God.
00:32:15.852 --> 00:32:19.803
But one thing, as we're talking about this, that came to mind was this aspect of forgiveness.
00:32:19.803 --> 00:32:24.501
Right, when people have been hurt, sexually abused, there's trauma, all of these things.
00:32:24.501 --> 00:33:00.522
One of the common go-tos for people is well, we need to forgive that person, or vice versa, right, and I'm curious, you know we talk often about the difference between forgiveness and reconciliation the person who was sexually abused by a family member, by someone in the church, the Christian duty or the thing that they're going to be recommended
to do, is to forgive, but that looks very different as an adult, or even as a child, to forgive someone who did something like that to them, right?
00:33:00.522 --> 00:33:03.769
So what would forgiveness look like?
00:33:03.769 --> 00:33:08.563
Or is that even I mean, dare I say, is that even something that they should be focusing on?
00:33:09.104 --> 00:33:11.807
when they're trying to process that trauma.
00:33:12.528 --> 00:33:12.910
Okay.
00:33:12.910 --> 00:33:19.226
So people assume that forgiveness is for the other person.
00:33:19.226 --> 00:33:21.009
Yes and no.
00:33:21.009 --> 00:33:28.769
It is because you want to release them from the guilt and the obligation and the shame, all that other stuff.
00:33:28.769 --> 00:33:51.702
However, it's essentially for you and until you forgive that person, you are going to be in your own prison within yourself and it cultivates a sense of a victim mindset, a victim mindset, and you carry that through resentments, through disconnect, through the lack of connection, the desire to.
00:33:51.702 --> 00:33:54.483
You can't trust people and all this other stuff.
00:33:54.483 --> 00:33:56.964
You imprison yourself.
00:33:56.964 --> 00:33:59.880
That's all it is.
00:34:00.895 --> 00:34:03.023
Now you can forgive someone.
00:34:03.023 --> 00:34:05.083
That doesn't mean that you have to reconcile.
00:34:05.083 --> 00:34:07.835
Where does it say in scripture that we have to reconcile?
00:34:07.835 --> 00:34:13.034
It is not an obligation.
00:34:13.034 --> 00:34:17.427
You can forgive someone and you can let them go.
00:34:17.427 --> 00:34:19.119
That's okay.
00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:20.684
That's okay.
00:34:20.684 --> 00:34:22.922
But you do have to forgive them and you do have to love them, because that's what you're called to do.
00:34:22.922 --> 00:34:31.902
But you don't have to forgive them and you do have to love them, because that's what you're called to do, but you don't have to have them in your space, you don't have to have them in your environment.
00:34:31.902 --> 00:34:33.722
You don't have to talk to them anymore.
00:34:33.722 --> 00:34:41.365
After you release them, you let them go and you move on with your life.
00:34:41.365 --> 00:34:51.382
This person, in whatever way that that happened, won't get triggered again because essentially it may ptsd kind of carries on through life.
00:34:51.382 --> 00:34:52.605
You know what I'm saying.
00:34:52.605 --> 00:35:01.255
But at the end of the day you forgive them, you forgive yourself, but you move on through your healing process and working through that.
00:35:01.255 --> 00:35:05.938
Now, if you want to reconcile with this person, that is your choice.
00:35:05.938 --> 00:35:07.579
Yeah.
00:35:08.179 --> 00:35:08.780
That is your choice.
00:35:08.780 --> 00:35:09.840
I've seen it done.
00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:27.190
I've seen it done, where sexual trauma has been inflicted upon a person and they have worked through and healed, excuse me, and processed
and understood and released.
00:35:27.190 --> 00:35:36.516
Yet they still wanted to reconcile, and that was okay too.
00:35:36.516 --> 00:35:39.099
They just wanted to be able to be in a space to move past this elephant in the room.
00:35:39.179 --> 00:35:52.786
Let's call it for what it is, let's acknowledge it, let's heal through it, let's be active on being able to letting this go, letting the denial go, letting the shame go, letting the guilt go.
00:35:52.786 --> 00:35:54.992
All this I forgive you.
00:35:54.992 --> 00:35:59.699
So I'm releasing you from a prison that you've put me in but you also put yourself in.
00:35:59.699 --> 00:36:05.105
However, I still want to be in communion with you, that's okay, too.
00:36:06.025 --> 00:36:07.947
Yeah, it's so powerful.
00:36:07.947 --> 00:36:17.867
Yeah, difficult but powerful, and I like that you provided those aspects of what forgiveness is and what it isn't.
00:36:17.867 --> 00:36:32.452
We kind of jumped into this topic on what the restoration process will look like after betrayal, but I think one of the things that we realize as we're talking now is that this aspect of betrayal really stems from unresolved trauma.
00:36:32.452 --> 00:36:40.905
Yeah, and what we're seeing is maybe a lot of unresolved trauma is leading to these aspects of betrayal.
00:36:40.905 --> 00:37:06.400
So, as we've discussed that, is there anything that we missed, anything that you feel we need to address so that the audience leaves with an understanding of you know, there's a lot of people that are hurt in the church, and if this is you right now, who maybe haven't addressed unresolved trauma or betrayal or sexual abuse or anything like that, what would they need to do?
00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:13.380
We talk about personal healing, taking accountability, forgiveness and so on, but is there something that you would share with them?
00:37:13.380 --> 00:37:14.704
That would be helpful?
00:37:15.666 --> 00:37:19.065
Yeah, so I'll leave the audience with this, right.
00:37:19.065 --> 00:37:26.447
We all walk around in life as adults with emotional baggage.
00:37:26.447 --> 00:37:37.983
Right, it has a lot of stuff in it, but we're all carrying it around, right, it's just a little carry on, stop and open it up, yeah.
00:37:37.983 --> 00:37:38.927
Open it up.
00:37:38.927 --> 00:37:42.983
Sift through what belongs to you and what doesn't.
00:37:42.983 --> 00:37:43.885
Mm-hmm.
00:37:43.885 --> 00:37:57.617
And when you figure out what does start there, because you have it, you have it, this state of denial that, oh, I'm fine, no, you're not.
00:37:57.617 --> 00:38:00.159
None of us are fine, we're never fine.
00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:02.481
We are never fine.
00:38:02.641 --> 00:38:18.043
There is something going on within us at all times that we're battling constantly, constantly Acknowledge it, acknowledge it, give yourself grace to work through it.
00:38:18.043 --> 00:38:36.608
But you can't continue to exist in this state of denial because it's going to be a barrier from you really being able to walk fully and lighthearted and feel a sense of liberation in your relationship with God, in your relationship with others.
00:38:36.608 --> 00:38:52.981
It is really Impacting your ability to be fulfilled in life, in your relationships, in the things that you're passionate about, because it's a constant nag.
00:38:52.981 --> 00:38:55.668
It's a constant nag and it doesn't go anywhere.
00:38:56.315 --> 00:38:57.860
No it doesn't go anywhere.
00:38:57.860 --> 00:38:59.123
It follows you around.
00:38:59.123 --> 00:39:02.878
It is your shadow, it is your shadow self.
00:39:02.878 --> 00:39:06.206
So, yes, yes, let's deal with this stuff.
00:39:06.206 --> 00:39:06.887
Just start there.
00:39:08.856 --> 00:39:09.657
Just start there.
00:39:09.657 --> 00:39:12.862
Good words, good words, kendra, wow, wow.
00:39:12.862 --> 00:39:15.807
Really, this was a heavy topic, but I'm glad we touched on it.
00:39:15.807 --> 00:39:25.222
Me too, you have great expertise and insights on the topic and I really appreciate that you sharing with us and the audience, and we'll have to do another one.
00:39:25.574 --> 00:39:27.128
We will, I sharing with us and the audience, and we'll have to do another one.
00:39:27.128 --> 00:39:27.291
We will.
00:39:27.291 --> 00:39:32.284
I like talking to you, sam, you're so awesome but um, but yeah, thank you, kendra.
00:39:32.344 --> 00:39:38.027
Kendra, is there anything that you'd like to share with us about contact you know more about you, or information anything?
00:39:38.730 --> 00:39:44.221
yeah, so, um, audience members, if you want to find me, reach out to me.
00:39:44.221 --> 00:39:44.661
You.
00:39:44.661 --> 00:39:48.068
You can Google Kendra King, charlotte, north Carolina.
00:39:48.068 --> 00:40:00.128
I will come up, or you can go to the HealingHeartTherapyCentercom, or you can email me, kendra at the HealingHeartTherapyCentercom.
00:40:00.128 --> 00:40:04.820
And yeah, just go from there, you can find me Absolutely, absolutely Great, great conversation Kendra.
00:40:04.860 --> 00:40:08.704
Absolutely, absolutely Great, great conversation Kendra.
00:40:08.704 --> 00:40:12.528
I appreciate it and yeah, hopefully we'll catch up soon.
00:40:12.969 --> 00:40:13.909
Yes, soon.
00:40:13.909 --> 00:40:14.731
Thanks, Sam.
00:40:15.958 --> 00:40:18.335
Thank you, Kendra.