KOPYA NG SALIN 🔗
Kai: I'd just like to Acknowledge the Country that we're on today, Wurundjuri, I’m a proud Yorta Yorta and Barapa Barapa man with connections to Dja Dja Wurrung and Wurundjeri …. so always special to come on my nan's Country Wurundjuri. Thank you.
Kai: Yeah, connection is so important. So being connected to one another I think is really important. So talking, I'm talking about your friends, I'm talking about your family. I think connection to a religion or connection, for me, connection to Country, and I feel like that's very important when we're talking about mental health and different issues like that. So I think connection is just about, yeah, um, and I feel like when I hear connection, it's like bringing everyone together.
Liz: Welcome to the podcast, Finding Steady Ground, where young people speak honestly about their experiences following disasters. Created by the Centre of Excellence: Young People and Disasters in partnership with Phoenix Australia, this podcast explores the experiences of young people navigating their mental health after disaster events.
Liz: Across the series, you're going to meet five young people who will share their personal stories, reflections, and the lessons they've learned through adversity. Through open and honest conversations, they'll explore themes of recovery, connection, and hope. Hosted by Alex Howard and Sarah Herzina, each episode offers practical strategies, insights, and guidance to support the mental health and wellbeing of young people impacted by disasters.
Liz: Being a podcast about disaster events, we will be covering topics like bushfires, storms, floods, COVID, climate change, grief, and loss. Today we also mention suicide. If the topics we discuss bring anything up for you, there are organisations you can turn to, and we'll detail these at the end of the episode and in the show notes.
Alex: Today we're going to be talking to Kai about different forms of connection.
Alex: Hi, my name's Alex Howard. I'm a clinical psychologist at Phoenix Australia, and my pronouns are she/her.
Sarah: Hi, my name's Sarah Herzina. I'm a film television animation student at Deakin University and a member of the Centre of Excellence for Young People and Disasters and my pronouns are she, her as well.
Sarah: Alex, for people who don't have a strong sense of connection, do you have any tips for, for building up that skill?
Alex: I think the first thing is to know that, um, you're not alone if you feel like you don't have a strong sense of connection to community or to other people.
Alex: We know that, uh, young people are among the loneliest age group. So in terms of things that you can be doing, I think having a really strong sense of self and your own, uh, interests, your own strengths is really key. Being really open-minded to different types of connections. So, uh, you know, not kind of, uh, assuming too much about someone, uh, or where you might make those connections.
Alex: I think the other key
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thing is, you know, as hard as it is, um, putting yourself out there. There is a level of just putting yourself out there to build new connections or to reconnect with people that you have lost touch with, I think is really important. And also finally, once again, just remembering that it's not, um, you know, it's not about having hundreds of connections or hundreds of good friends or, you know, joining and creating new hobbies. It can be really small acts of connection. So just, you know, being a regular down at the cafe or at the sports club or at the gym, whatever it is that you like, uh, all of those moments of connection are really helpful for our mental health and wellbeing.
Kai: So I'm Kai. I'm a trainee ecologist, and I'm also a cultural and environmental teacher. So, um, yeah, I've sort of done that for about two years. I'm up at a, from a place called Kerang, which is out in the outback where the m- um, mallee meets the floodplain. So I've grown up, um, in an area where we've had lots of floods as well as lots of droughts, so lots of disasters.
Kai: And yeah, um, I've come back from, like, my family's grown up with a lot of disasters, so I'm very honoured to be on this episode.
Kai: I would define connection by, I feel like, your surroundings. For me, it's your, the, where you're standing at one point. So if that could be your friends, reaching out to your friends, reaching out to your family, reaching out to, um, like yeah, um, out in nature. I feel like for me, a connection is, um, yeah, um, what and who you surround yourself with.
Kai: And if you, yeah, for me, if you surround yourself around good connections, you're gonna have better mental health. If you surround yourself around bad, um, connections, you're going to have bad mental health.
Alex: Yeah, great. And can you tell us just as much as you're comfortable, a little bit about your, um, experience of disaster and what you think it might be, might be important for other people to understand about your experiences around disaster or the threat of disasters?
Kai: Yeah, definitely. So, um, I've grown up and I've had a lot of disasters in my life. I've had lots of floods, um, impact my life as well as, um, droughts, as well as I remember growing up and going through primary school with my mum with cancer and growing up with that, as well as, um, I've had a lot of family, um, commit suicide, as well, like the list sort of goes on.
Alex: Mm
Kai: But, um, yeah, I just feel like, um, for me, I, I can see-- I will, I, I know, like, not to judge a book by its cover, that sort of story where especially me teaching classrooms now, you wouldn't-- when you look back at me in classroom, you would have never picked that some of the stuff that was going on outside the classroom doors.
Kai: So I feel like it's really important for me being the teacher that I wanna be and, um, to be that sort of role model to show, um, yeah, how you can deal with mental health.
Alex: What have you found through all of those things that you have experienced across your life? What have you found helps to kind of give that sense of connection?
Alex: What are some of the practical things that you do to help strengthen that sense of connection?
Kai: Yeah, I feel like walking is a humongous one for me, and it's something-- 'cause I'm not much of a runner, and you always hear about getting outdoors and doing exercise or getting to sports. But for me, what really started it was just going for a walk and then maybe counting my steps or maybe counting how long I would go for a walk for, and if that's just like a local park near me, local river.
Kai: And it's also important to, as you're going on that walk, to try to control your breathing maybe. For me, it's slowing down. I know when I look at the river, I start to focus on the water and seeing the ripples. Or maybe if you're at a beach, looking at the ripples. And then, um, when you slow down even more, you start to look at maybe something like ants.
Kai: I knew that was something for me when I was seeing ants walking around. And I was-- I sort of sat there looking at the ants and it completely slowed down my, it like slowed down everything. It, it sort of took me back to my childhood looking at ants again. And it was just something like when you, um, yeah, going for a walk and taking everything around, that's around you really helped me.
Alex: Yeah. So really, literally kind of grounding yourself, taking some breaths, and it sounds also like being, feeling connected to nature and the, the land's really useful to help, uh, did it- would you say, like, it helped you in the, helped you feel calm? Is that kind of what... What's the feeling that those things gave you that was helpful?
Kai: Yeah, calm's definitely one. Um, for me, it made my, it made me, um, so more organized, which is such a random thing, going for a walk. Walking away from my work, if that's computer work or anything, just going for a walk, your mind sort of starts to roll over and, um, you think, "Oh, I might have this for dinner tonight. I might have this in the morning, and all of a sudden you sort, like, you forgot what you're worrying about, for me. So, yeah.
Alex: Yeah, nice. And as you say, you've experienced lots of different, uh, disasters and really challenging things in your life. Are there things that you wish you'd known before one of those experiences that would have helped you?
Alex: Or is there something that you've learned since a disaster?
Kai: Um, something that I wish that I would've known now to earlier. Um- Not really. I think, I reckon, I remember going through high school, later high school, I started to really start to struggle with my grades, and I didn't really have that connection that we're talking about at school, especially when we had COVID as well.
Kai: So it was a pretty hard year where you had to be stuck in a room, and I remember, um, struggling a lot more with that, with my mental
health. And now when I look back at it, where now I get outdoors a lot more now, and when I was in primary school and my mum was going through her cancer, I was outdoors a lot more.
Kai: I feel like I dealt with it a lot better. I w- as we're talking about connection, I definitely feel like, um, reaching out to loved ones as much as I can has been a really big one, even if it's just a random phone call or just a random message. And, like, I feel like as I've grown up, it's something I really, I want to be the one making, uh, sending them calls and messages. Um, I feel like that's something that's really helped me, um, with my mental health.
Alex: Yeah. Nice. And what do you think as a young person, um, you can be doing to help prepare for a future disaster if it's going to happen?
Kai: Well, I guess as a, um, environmental teacher, it's teaching the young ones that there's still hope. Like, I'll give a quick example that we-- when we do our monitoring classes, we get kids out, and they've got to draw what our planting site will look like in fifty years, a hundred years, two hundred years, five hundred. Once I get to five hundred, a lot of the kids' drawings are doom and gloom. There's robots everywhere and there's no pl- the trees are all gone.
Kai: So, and when you see that at a young kid's age, it really like, no, these trees are gonna be big. Like, um, yeah, I feel like, um, yeah, it's so important to still have hope, and I know I work out on a, a couple spaces where I work out at some wetlands back home and that. It's sort of that then they remind me of what Australia should look like, sort of some of the wetlands and animals that come to that.
Kai: So I feel like going to them really gives me hope that there's still, if this can change, there's still hope elsewhere.
Alex: One of the things I guess what I'd be keen to understand is, is there anything that you think would be useful for any young person who's navigating a disaster now or, or the threat of a disaster, is there anything that you think would be useful for them to know or do to help promote that sense of feeling connected?
Kai: Yeah, definitely. I know with a lot of, uh, like disasters or even with life, like I always have this sort of idea and sort of it's like waves, and it's always up and down, up and down. So you have-- And your highs are amazing, and you forget about anything low, and when you get l- low, that's all you can sort of see.
Kai: So whenever you're sort of in a dull patch, which we all get, and I definitely can say I reckon last night I was in a bit of a dull patch, but I just, you've just gotta h- hang in there and then go for a walk and go out in nature and, um, yeah, you'll have your highs coming soon.
Alex: Yeah. Nice. Um, is there anything that you would like to ask me about the theme of connection or anything else around disasters or mental health?
Kai: Yeah, definitely. Um, what, what are your thoughts with, um, connection to Country and getting kids and, um, 'cause I know growing up that was such an important part of my life. I would just like to hear what, uh, you have to say and any studies or anything like that 'cause-
Alex: Yeah ... I
Kai: think it's so important.
Alex: I'm really happy that you raised connection to Country and land cause, you know, often I think people will think about connection to other people in the first instance.
Alex: But we know from research that connection to nature can be really protective and even though it can be really devastating, I imagine, to see, uh, your Country be destroyed by a disaster, uh, we know that people can also kind of get strength to see as that Country comes back and starts to heal and, um, they can get kind of great hope, as you were saying, from tending to Country and bringing it, uh, back.
Alex: So yeah, I think it, it's really great that you have drawn on that part of the theme. I really like that.
Sarah: So Alex, Kai reflects on how connection can shift during challenging times. Why do relationships sometimes become more strained after disaster?
Alex: Yeah, after someone experiences something like a disaster where it can overwhelm our usual kind of way of coping, people can react in very different ways, and some of those ways can be, you know, feeling more on edge, feeling unsafe, feeling irritable, feeling angry. And you can picture that if, you know, you've got lots of people walking around in a community feeling that, then, you know, there will be tensions within communities, within relationships, within households. We also know that, um, family violence can actually increase in the aftermath of a disaster as well.
Alex: So the very kind of overwhelming nature that disaster can have sometimes really do impact all of our lives, including our relationships, both from within our house-household all the way through to our community.
Sarah: That's a really great point, Alex. Um, I think it's really important to highlight how as much as crises can bring people closer together, which is fantastic and, and holds true, um, it can also cause, um, strain and difficulties.
Sarah: Um, Alex, um, I really deeply admire Kai's definition of disaster and how he describes it as extending beyond what people think at face value, things like fires, floods, and he extends that into family illness, challenges, um, communities are faced with. How would you define a disaster?
Alex: Yeah, I mean, disaster, I think in the, the simplest way of thinking about it is, is something that's so disruptive that it overwhelms your normal capacity to cope.
Alex: So I know we have been thinking a lot about those caused by natural hazards, fires, floods, but there are other large scale events that can be a disaster for a community as well, where there's been, um, a, a death or deaths within a community. Um, and all of these things can have that same impact of overwhelming people's ability to cope in the short term at least.
Sarah: Yeah.
And, um, one, um, disaster event can be transferable and, and cause, um, cumulative difficulties in, uh, like later points in life. Um, if you agree with that point, yeah.
Alex: and I think, yeah, I think another key thing is just as the definition of disaster can be quite broad, all of the skills that, um, you might be using for other challenges that you're facing or if you have faced a disaster can be applied to other really significant and hard periods in your life as well. Uh, so I think that's something important for us to remember as we're talking about it.
Sarah: Yeah. Such fantastic points, Alex. Um, reflecting on your discussion with Kai today, what would you say are your key takeaways?
Alex: Really one of the key things I took from that discussion is the way that Kai spoke about connection and what connection looked like to him. I often default to thinking about connection as being connected to other people. Uh, but he really spoke about connection, uh, to land, to Country, as well as other people and to himself and grounding himself. And I think for me, the idea that he was using connection as a way to help calm, uh, came out really clearly in the discussion.
Alex: I think another takeaway was that idea that he seemed to find it useful to kind of connect to himself and ground himself, uh, and then go out and seek connection with other people when he felt able to.
Sarah: That's such a fantastic point. I really, um, appreciate the comment on, um, finding peace, um, and grounding, like within yourself before, um, reaching out to others.
Sarah: Fantastic points. Thank you so very much for today, Alex. I appreciate it.
Liz: Kai recorded some reflections about connection and Country, and we’d like to share them with you now.
Kai: I'm on beautiful Wadawurrung Country, next to the Barwon River.
Kai: The way that I sort of embody my culture is by Country, meaning the landscape. And the way I sort of see it is when I am back home or on Yorta and Barapa Country, when I see the rivers, like when I see the Murray and see how sick the Murray is, it makes me feel sick.
Kai: And when I see a lot of, um, I guess weeds and, um, yeah, a lot of pest animals like foxes and cats, feral cats and rabbits, it makes me feel crook. But to the opposite of that, when I see healthy Country, it really, um, it real- I don't know, some- something in your soul or ... I- it's hard to explain, but that sort of feeling when you see healthy Country really, um, makes me, um, feel good and happy and proud to be on healthy Country.
Kai: That's really important in my sort of cultural wellbeing, and it, it's, it comes into that sort of connection to Country. When you're connected to that s- you're that such, such a powerful connection to the Country, it really has, can have, um, an effect on your wellbeing. And being taken away, you're not being able to see.
Kai: It's why it's so beautiful that I can come down to this spot and just take it in, sit and let your mind sort of go to work. Look at the ripples of the water. Have a look at some of the ants climbing up and around. Really takes you back to when's the last time that you were looking, were following ants.
Kai: For, for me, it would, would've been early primary school, and be able to sit back and get that nostalgic feeling really is like a reset, being out on Country. Mm. Just take it in. You got the beautiful superb fairwrens in the background. Been lucky enough to see some yellow-tailed black cockatoos fly over.
Kai: Been some swans fl- come fast on the river. Had some fish jumping. Unfortunately, I would have to say they'll be carp if they were anything, but just a beautiful morning, and what a beautiful way to start the day. To go for a walk and get out amongst it, but also be able to ta- take in Country.
Kai: Little superb fairy-wrens come right up to me. Cute fella, his name's in, in Indigenous words as well, which is Waatji Pulyeri, it means little one of the lignum bush. There he is, coming to check me out just 'cause I'm sitting here being quiet. He knows I'm not gonna hurt him. What a beautiful way to start the morning.
Kai: All right, see you guys
Liz: If anything we discussed in today's episode raised issues for you, please reach out to someone you trust and seek support. One resource we're sharing in every episode is eheadspace. This is a free confidential service for young people across Australia, with support available online, by email, or on the phone with a mental health clinician or peer worker.
Liz: Go to headspace.org.au
Liz: For Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander listeners, 13YARN is a free, confidential support line available twenty-four seven. It's run by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people and offers culturally safe, respectful support. Whether you're feeling overwhelmed or just need someone to talk to, you can call 13-92-76. That's 13-92-76. You don't need to be in crisis to call.
Liz: You'll find all the support resources available in the show notes.
Liz: The Finding Steady Ground podcast was brought to you by the Centre of Excellence: Young People & Disasters, and Phoenix Australia. This podcast was recorded on the lands of the Wurundjeri and Boon Wurrung peoples of the Kulin nation.
Liz: This episode was hosted by Alex Howard and Sarah Herzina.
Liz: Pre-production and research were by Phoebe Michetti, Jessica Standish and David Pedder. Editing and production were by Liz Keen from Headline Productions. Funding for the Centre of Excellence: Young People & Disasters was provided by the Australian Government.