KOPYA NG SALIN 🔗
WEBVTT
00:00:08.720 --> 00:00:10.000
Hello and welcome.
00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:20.160
I'm Rob Wilkinson, and today we're reflecting on the relatively recent news of Salesforce's launch of the Agent Force Contact Center.
00:00:20.559 --> 00:00:29.600
And we're going to have a look at what this push for platform consolidation might mean for enterprise flexibility.
00:00:30.239 --> 00:00:34.479
The jury's still out as to whether this is positive or negative, I think.
00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:41.840
We've done some recent conversations with analysts that shows that I think the um the kind of the industry is divided.
00:00:42.640 --> 00:01:07.920
But if you're an operations uh uh manager and you are challenged with managing the operational gravity of your uh CRM ecosystem, or if you're exploring how you want to truly operationalize your data for AI, of course, then stay with us because we're gonna get practical takeaway today that you can take away and use in your organization this quarter.
00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:13.920
Uh, because today I'm joined by Baker Johnson, he's the chief business officer at UJET.
00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:16.959
He's definitely an expert in this space.
00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:23.439
Um, he sees um an awful lot of companies looking at these decisions every single day.
00:01:23.519 --> 00:01:31.840
Uh and he's got uh he's got an alternate or a contrarian perspective uh on what actually this launch could mean for CX leaders.
00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:35.920
So it's really really, really great to actually get an alternative viewpoint.
00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:37.760
And uh yeah, welcome Baker.
00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:39.439
Thank you so much for joining me.
00:01:40.159 --> 00:01:41.120
Hey, thanks Rob.
00:01:41.359 --> 00:01:42.560
Great to meet you and great to be here.
00:01:42.719 --> 00:01:43.439
Excited to be back.
00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:52.560
So before we dive into what's quite a meaty topic, um, let's sort of set the scene a little bit if we can.
00:01:52.640 --> 00:02:00.719
Can you give us a bit of a background as to kind of this debate that's happening right now around vendor consolidation and why is it so important?
00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:02.400
Yeah, sure.
00:02:02.480 --> 00:02:13.120
Look, I think first off, in terms of like Salesforce and their their announcement, I'll say we we do fundamentally sort of agree on the problem in the market, right?
00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:25.280
That there's this um this fragmentation between systems, between the system of record and the system of engagement, um, and that we do need to figure out some way to bring all that together.
00:02:25.439 --> 00:02:27.599
I think we have a, you've mentioned contrarian, right?
00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:30.319
We have a fundamentally different view of what that might look like.
00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:36.800
But you know, the question around vendor consolidation itself and and sort of what's driving it, right?
00:02:36.960 --> 00:02:41.360
I think I'll say enterprises, but mid-market, S and B.
00:02:41.520 --> 00:02:50.879
I think everyone is looking for simplification, um, you know, said a little less diplomatically, like one throat to choke on the vendor relationship, right?
00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:56.719
Um and it's it's not just technical in nature, it's it's this commercial necessity, right?
00:02:56.879 --> 00:03:09.120
Because there's so much administrative and operational burden that has really come to define uh the the last decade or so of customer experience management.
00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:14.240
Because we have a new channel for our a new tool for every new workflow.
00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:18.000
Um our agents are managing, you know, four to ten different systems.
00:03:18.159 --> 00:03:22.400
We've got this sort of swivel chair effect, IT's involved in all of this.
00:03:22.719 --> 00:03:35.360
Um, and so like I said, you know, I I think we agree that um, you know, AI is sort of the mandate to finally bridge some of these silos and start to drive some form of consolidation for us.
00:03:35.439 --> 00:03:42.000
Um but I think what you and I are going to talk about today is is you know what's driving it is the goal is simplification.
00:03:42.319 --> 00:03:54.159
Um but I think you know that comes down to actually addressing the underlying architecture as opposed to simply trying to get you know a unified bill and and one number to call for support, right?
00:03:56.240 --> 00:04:10.879
Okay, I I like that framing a lot, and it helps me actually because we as an industry we've had lots and lots of decades of new technology that's come out that was gonna fundamentally transform everything that we do.
00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:13.680
And and you know, they never quite live up to their promises.
00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:27.680
I think AI might be a little different because it's proving to kind of definitely wash its own face, but when we do this, we've uh we we don't seem to have learned our lessons of just let's go and scramble to get the new shiny piece of technology.
00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:35.839
Um, let's just kind of like rush out and and get these things, make these things happen without the right sort of planning and everything beforehand.
00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:44.560
So we whilst we have got as an industry a history of adapting and adopting technology, we don't always do it very well.
00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:51.600
So it's quite interesting that now that we're in the place where actually we've got all this technology, what do we do with it?
00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:53.199
How do we make the most of it?
00:04:53.279 --> 00:05:01.360
And and it does feel like AI really is that kind of it's the missing piece of that jigsaw that we've had for so long.
00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:06.079
It's the gap that we've, you know, the reason we've been unable to do it is because we didn't have this kind of tool.
00:05:06.319 --> 00:05:08.319
Now that we do, that's great.
00:05:08.639 --> 00:05:21.519
But I
Load full transcript
guess from your perspective, what are the organizations feeling now when there's pressure to actually rely on all of these uh single massive ecosystems that they've got?
00:05:22.079 --> 00:05:28.079
Where does that impact them so much now that we're looking at this through the day, you know, the light of today?
00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:31.279
Yeah, well, look, I I think I think you nailed it, right?
00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:39.839
We've done a really good job of accumulating technology, not necessarily sort of adopting or optimizing it, right?
00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:54.959
And so, you know, what we see, and we have so many of these conversations, um, you know, what organizations are are the way that you see this pressure around the ecosystem is is they're they're showing up like in a hostage dynamic, right?
00:05:55.120 --> 00:06:05.279
They've got commercial lock-in, they've got vendor lock-in, and these huge switching costs that really sort of dictate their overall operational roadmap.
00:06:05.680 --> 00:06:17.759
Um we tried to migrate our CRM for three years, um, but we had something like 30 different tools and operational processes across departments that were all sort of integrated in there.
00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:24.800
And it made the switching costs so high that we constantly just said, okay, we'll kind of pay the increase this year, right?
00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:31.600
And so, you know, in these ecosystems, it what really drove them was deep integration.
00:06:31.759 --> 00:06:38.319
It was easy to buy and deploy systems that would integrate, and that was going to be what drove simplicity, right?
00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:42.079
But what it's done is it's it's made the cost of any kind of change prohibitive, right?
00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:43.040
You get stuck.
00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:51.920
So every system's interdependent, and if you replace one piece of that, you get like these cascading failures across the entire stack.
00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:58.000
Um, and so you know, you just sort of keep renewing and going with the old systems.
00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:02.879
Um But, you know, look, I'll say we're talking about Salesforce today.
00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:14.959
I think 70%, something like 70% of their new revenue growth last year came from price increases alone rather than like net new sales, right?
00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:19.040
And that just shows you that like organizations are showing up stuck.
00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:35.920
And so what they're looking at is um how do we get beyond our main platforms, existing commercial structures, or by the way, like other partnerships that they have that might influence how they direct what we buy and implement, right?
00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:47.759
Um to really figure out how you get to not the preferred solution that's being recommended, but the one that's the best architectural fit for your use cases.
00:07:51.680 --> 00:08:14.800
So I think you're yeah, you've you've really nailed the point there with the what we could call the integrations trap, which you know the promises of integration for so long was, you know, uh everyone had pages on their websites to chat about how many different integrations they had, and it was a big selling point for everyone to say, Oh, look, we can all plug into each other, isn't that phenomenal?
00:08:14.879 --> 00:08:15.680
But you're absolutely right.
00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:21.680
We've actually caused ourselves to kind of land stuck amongst that like a cob website, trying to get out, I guess.
00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:23.839
Um interesting though.
00:08:24.079 --> 00:08:31.920
So, what is the consequence of this for you know the real teams who are in there who are trying to stay agile?
00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:40.240
Um, but the operation is kind of often tied up to probably one of the bigger vendors roadmap and all those other things integrated into it.
00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:43.120
What what how that where does that play out for those teams?
00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:49.360
Because they're the guys looking after our customers, so we need to make sure that that is uh something that we're aware of.
00:08:49.759 --> 00:08:54.960
Yeah, look, I I think you'll know this firsthand from your history, kind of operating contact centers, right?
00:08:55.039 --> 00:09:00.480
And I I sort of touched on this, but you get a you get a massive sort of IT burden, right?
00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:11.759
You've got administrative debt with kind of procurement and everything else, and then the the real burden ends up being on our our our agents and the customers they're serving, right?
00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:19.600
Because the human contact center agent is is effectively become the manual integration layer between all these disconnected systems, right?
00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:27.679
And so, you know, we we got here because we're gonna get you know a full suite, you'll get the convenience of a full suite, right?
00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:34.480
But it's a little bit of a marketing illusion that that falls apart as soon as you see an agent's desktop, right?
00:09:34.639 --> 00:09:36.559
Four to ten systems open.
00:09:36.720 --> 00:09:40.240
Um, and and you know, give me just a minute, I'll pull that up for you, right?
00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:49.679
All of that stuff that we that we experience, even just as consumers in our daily lives, um, because we're not able to actually do anything about the architecture itself, right?
00:09:49.759 --> 00:09:59.840
So I think we have to challenge this strategy of treating the contact center as a secondary feature to the CRM, right?
00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:02.240
Um I don't think you can stay agile and innovate.
00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:08.559
And by the way, like you know, the AI, like we said, it's moving so quickly, you've got to maintain some agility.
00:10:08.799 --> 00:10:30.960
But if that is tethered to a major vendor's you know, twice annual release cycle or the specific technical debt or
acquisitions they've made on the back end that informs their data schema, you know, all of those things are gonna really, really hamper uh your ability to be uh agile and to innovate and to adopt new tools.
00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:39.519
Um and so I mean, I think one of the questions you'd have to ask right now is like, why are the CRM vendors pivoting so aggressively into CX, right?
00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:51.919
Is it about leveraging the data, or is it some form of a you know defensive pivot away from sort of the the existing system of record strategy that they've they've built over the last couple of decades?
00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:56.240
I hope that it's maybe a bit a combination of both.
00:10:56.399 --> 00:11:00.159
I'm gonna I'm gonna sit firmly on that fence right now.
00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:20.879
Um because I do see you know the benefits of the context that CRM brings, especially from an AI perspective, if you want to build agency systems that can you know carry out automated workflows, that that context is super important, and um, and I know you can move it around, but I think I think that there's certainly value in that.
00:11:21.039 --> 00:11:22.320
But you're absolutely right.
00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:32.480
There is a almost a trend at the moment of this, um, and and it's only a reflection of the kind of very fast-moving space at the moment, isn't it?
00:11:32.639 --> 00:11:40.399
But um, but look, I'm gonna say this you you use the word context, and context is an expression of data.
00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:46.480
Typically, what we see in the CRMs is a historical repository, these are static systems of record.
00:11:46.720 --> 00:12:00.720
So when you call in because you wanna, you know, you've got I'm I'm a major brand and I sell electronics, and and you're trying to deal with a support issue on one product line.
00:12:00.960 --> 00:12:06.639
I don't actually need to know as an agent what your five-year purchase history is.
00:12:06.799 --> 00:12:08.320
I don't need all this information overload.
00:12:08.559 --> 00:12:09.279
That's data.
00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:19.519
Context is that you were on the website 30 seconds ago trying to solve the problem with a virtual agent that couldn't resolve it.
00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:22.320
And so you gave up on it and you called into me.
00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:27.519
And I, and and oh, by the way, the agent assist tool that I'm using isn't starting over from scratch.
00:12:27.679 --> 00:12:32.159
It has the context of that conversation and is informing the human agent.
00:12:32.399 --> 00:12:37.039
Um, you know, I just I think context is really, really pivotal here.
00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:45.759
And there are technical limitations to how quickly you can surface real-time information within those existing systems of record.
00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:51.360
I I think you're gonna see more of a shift in the data strategy overall from CRM to like a CDP.
00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:57.519
That's really interesting because that I mean, as we know, data's the kind of fundamental foundation of all of this.
00:12:57.679 --> 00:13:02.159
These things, you know, without the right data is your foundation, none of this stuff works well.
00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:04.639
So you've hit a really important point there.
00:13:04.799 --> 00:13:15.440
And it's interesting because I hadn't thought about it in terms of the recent nature of the kind of the context and how important that is for that particular interaction.
00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:19.039
Um, so yeah, so I you you might have swayed me there.
00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:31.840
So I I want to get back to this uh the set the Salesforce launch a little bit more because technically um we should look at this because we've looked at the human element, we've looked at kind of how this impacts our people.
00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:40.639
Um let's look at it from a technical from an architectural standpoint, say, what is like the harder problem to solve today?
00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:51.360
Um, and that I say that by saying that I guess beyond just adding voice to a CRM, which might not necessarily like to your argument, might not be the best thing to do.
00:13:51.919 --> 00:14:04.559
Yeah, um I I could go 30 minutes on on this topic, but I'll start by saying you can't fix a structural or what we're talking about an architectural problem with a feature.
00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:12.480
Um, you know, adding voice to that historical repository doesn't fix the foundation or or the friction points.
00:14:12.559 --> 00:14:15.519
It really just changes kind of the line item on the bill, right?
00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:21.200
Now, I will say the the telephony is a complex technical problem in its own right.
00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:28.080
You know, you've got real-time resiliency between carriers, you've got latency, you've got you know, global presence.
00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:39.440
And, you know, I think that's why CRM vendors have been happy to partner and have avoided it, you know, for the last 20 years, um, while at the same time actually predicting that voice would die, right?
00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:41.519
Digital channels are going to make voice obsolete.
00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:53.519
I mean, I think Salesforce actually championed sort of the death of the phone over the last five years in an attempt to sell the digital channels and AI, but now suddenly they're they're offering native voice, right?
00:14:53.600 --> 00:15:04.480
So is it an attempt to solve customer experience again, or is it trying to shore up um you know, sort of a gap in the in the go-to-market strategy?
00:15:04.639 --> 00:15:15.279
Um I think the the real transformation is not about adding voice or even having a seamless handoff between digital channels and voice.
00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:21.519
Um and by the way, voice could be AI as well, or it could be human, or it could be some combination.
00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:27.679
But I think the real transformational
challenge that enterprises have to look at is an orchestration layer, right?
00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:48.159
Um what we have to look at is not uh sort of vendor consolidation, but but a new blueprint for uh enterprise systems to to deliver against a value chain in real time, um, as opposed to kind of continuing to add more features into uh the existing stack.
00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:53.360
It's it's certainly an exciting period of time.
00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:54.399
You you're absolutely right.
00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:58.960
I I uh the whole um voice is dead argument.
00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:07.679
I think that I think that drum was beaten by the same people who've said that agents won't have a job either, um, which I think we all know is is not the case.
00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:09.519
It's just an evolution of everything, right?
00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:17.120
So uh and we've been here before, email was gonna finish contact centres, social media was gonna finish contact centres, and hey, we're still here.
00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:20.879
So um, yeah, I think uh I think you're I think you're absolutely right there.
00:16:21.039 --> 00:16:34.799
Um I guess then when uh when you're speaking to the companies that you speak to, um when those enterprises are looking at the kind of AI strategy, so let's get into the kind of the kind of crux of that.
00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:53.840
What what evidence um or or early signals can you share that might convince uh uh an operation that's possibly a bit cautious in terms of purchasing anything that you know centralizing everything might actually slow down their innovation opportunities as well?
00:16:54.320 --> 00:17:04.400
Yeah, look, I think the first thing is I don't enter into these conversations with our customers trying to convince them of a specific strategy.
00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:12.160
Um, what I want to do is sort of, you know, we talk about in product, like fall in love with the problem, like understand what their actual challenges are.
00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:22.960
Um but what we do see with sort of the all-in-one or the centralized approach, and and you and I were talking about this a little bit before we turned the mics on, right?
00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:38.160
Is that we we've seen an erosion as you start to put all of these different vertical solutions within a single enterprise vendor, um, you see an erosion of expertise and and reliability, right?
00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:56.160
So you can't have uh a single global outage, by the way, that that you know, with a database or cloud infrastructure that brings an entire install base to a standstill, right?
00:17:56.640 --> 00:18:28.559
Um and you know, we see across across sales and support that if you're in a if you're in a larger sort of enterprise vendor motion, very often what you lose is the operational expertise required to understand your use case and and to help you sort of design and deploy and maintain the right compliant solutions for your industry, your vertical, your region, right?
00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:34.240
Um and and and I'll go back to sort of the vendor lock-in challenges, right?
00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:44.640
Like uh there's a there's a renewal tax that just happens inevitably the more you're anchored in and tethered uh to these sort of single systems, right?
00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:57.839
So I just don't think that you can build really a future-proof strategy um when you're working with with folks who who aren't experts in your specific uh industry and market.
00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:00.720
Renewal tax.
00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:02.720
I yeah, I love that phrase.
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:03.839
That's so right.
00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:13.519
Uh it's um I can you know reflect on uh too many uh occasions where you've gone to try and drive some improvements within an operation.
00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:35.680
There's an obvious route, an obvious solution to a problem, uh, but actually there's a there's a there's a there's a there's an issue in terms of either the cost of putting that solution in play or the cost of getting the data, that's always been a mystery to me why it's so difficult for you know a company to share the their own customers' data with them.
00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:48.240
So before we close, because we're running out of time, I could likewise I could talk about this all day, but uh if uh if you could offer just one piece of advice to our audience watching this week, uh what would that one piece of advice be?
00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:55.200
Yeah, look, I'll I'll start with it, it's a it's the first, it's the it's how I'll answer your question.
00:19:55.279 --> 00:20:05.680
It's also a response to everything you just said, which is you know, the the most important aspect of AI and customer experience is the customer experience, you know?
00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:09.359
And and when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:12.799
But you know, AI is not going to be this panacea or cure-all.
00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:22.400
Um, but it's going to it's going to fundamentally alter over time how we operate, not only as organizations, but as as individuals, right?
00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:35.119
And and that includes a transformation or a consolidation of existing roles and responsibilities, the departmental structure of our organizations, and really like totally new blueprints for organizational design.
00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:50.880
So if you go look at like the two and three-year-old companies today that have scaled to$50 or$100 million like overnight with 10 or 15 people, they have a totally different approach to value chain delivery, right?
00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:58.559
They weren't iterating on legacy institutional concepts of marketing and sales and support and IT, right?
00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:07.039
They just looked at, you know, what's the pain that we're solving for customers and what's the shortest path to solving it for them, right?
00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:17.200
So, you know, my advice on all of this is don't start with a false paradigm debate of all in one versus best of breed, right?
00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:29.119
Start with a clean sheet of paper and imagine no technical or process debt and design for today's reality and then figure out what the right path is for you to get there, right?
00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:38.559
And and what I bet is that if you actually do that, that you know the conclusion you arrive at is not going to look anything like today's status quo.
00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:53.519
You've hit the nail on the head for me that it really is all about um not having all the legacy uh noise uh clogging up your perspective and and and almost dictating what you do.
00:21:53.680 --> 00:22:00.000
It's about uh ignore all that, that blank sheet of paper, think it can be such a powerful thing.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:01.839
Uh and yeah, you're absolutely right.
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:11.759
There's so much evidence, recent evidence of organizations who who don't have that baggage, who have absolutely thrived and and you know flown.
00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:14.720
So no, I think that's a really, really, really great point.
00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:17.440
Unfortunately, though, that is all we've got time for.
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:21.759
Um so Baker, thank you so much for for joining me and answering all these questions.
00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:32.640
Um before we close, though, just um anyone watching this and who wants to explore this subject uh in more detail or maybe kind of get in contact with you and the team, what what's what's the best way for them to do that?
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:36.640
Well, you can find us pretty easily at ujet.cx.
00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:38.960
Simple as that.
00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:46.880
Uh, and also uh you can find our wealth of related resources, stories, and other videos just like this one at cxtoday.com.
00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:48.640
So that wraps up things for today.
00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:50.000
I've been Rob Wilkinson.
00:22:50.079 --> 00:22:51.279
This is CX Today.
00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:53.119
Thanks everyone for joining us.