(00:38:43) Podcast Clip of Ending Double Taxation of Americans Abroad: A Conversation with Solomon Yu on the Future of Citizenship Taxation for Americans Abroad

WEBVTT
00:00:00.937 --> 00:00:06.217
Good morning. This is John Richardson speaking with you from Toronto, Canada.
00:00:06.317 --> 00:00:12.857
It is 9.15 in Toronto, so it definitely is the morning, but it's even earlier
00:00:12.857 --> 00:00:19.317
in the morning with my guest today, and I'm really excited to have this conversation with Solomon Yu.
00:00:19.537 --> 00:00:24.557
I've known Solomon for a good many years, but haven't, and have done podcasts
00:00:24.557 --> 00:00:29.577
with him over the years, but not recently, So not only is this a great catch-up podcast,
00:00:30.017 --> 00:00:35.677
but it's an opportunity to talk about the latest announcement from Republicans
00:00:35.677 --> 00:00:40.177
overseas concerning Americans abroad and citizenship taxation. But we'll get to that.
00:00:41.057 --> 00:00:45.777
But first, Solomon, thank you for getting up so early to meet with me today.
00:00:45.837 --> 00:00:47.257
You're in Oregon, I think, right?
00:00:47.877 --> 00:00:53.537
Yes, correct. And thank you for having me. And this is a very important issue.
00:00:53.537 --> 00:01:00.037
And I have been working on this issue for 10 years, i.e.
00:01:00.077 --> 00:01:06.557
Ending the double taxation of all 9 million overseas Americans.
00:01:07.577 --> 00:01:12.017
Well, that sounds about right, because I think we've known each other for something like 10 years.
00:01:12.117 --> 00:01:15.697
So I guess that, you know, that coincides with it. But, you know,
00:01:15.857 --> 00:01:20.957
it's interesting to me, you know, the length of time that you've been involved
00:01:20.957 --> 00:01:24.937
with this and Republicans Overseas generally, Jim Goff or people like that.
00:01:25.297 --> 00:01:29.117
But I think it would be interesting, you know, for people to understand.
00:01:29.337 --> 00:01:32.357
I mean, you basically founded Republicans Overseas, I think,
00:01:32.377 --> 00:01:34.477
didn't you in its current form? Yes.
00:01:35.057 --> 00:01:39.317
Okay. So that must mean that you must have been a Republican before having founded
00:01:39.317 --> 00:01:40.957
Republicans Overseas. And I
00:01:40.957 --> 00:01:44.857
know that, you know, you are actually an immigrant to America, I believe.
00:01:45.537 --> 00:01:49.117
So I think it's interesting, you know, to just begin a little bit with,
00:01:49.197 --> 00:01:50.497
you know, your life story.
00:01:50.717 --> 00:01:54.797
I mean, how do we get to where we are? I mean, how does a guy born in China
00:01:55.237 --> 00:02:00.577
come to America and become, you know, one of the leading faces of trying to
00:02:00.577 --> 00:02:01.837
end citizenship taxation.
00:02:02.297 --> 00:02:08.517
I mean, you seem like an unlikely guy to be here today. So tell me a bit about how it all began.
00:02:09.037 --> 00:02:17.977
I think it had a lot to do with my upbringing and escaped CCP, China tyranny.
00:02:18.217 --> 00:02:25.617
I was born in communist China and lived under the tyranny for about 20 years
00:02:25.617 --> 00:02:28.997
and couldn't keep my mouth shut.
00:02:29.537 --> 00:02:35.117
So my late grandfather talked to his friend, Dr.
00:02:35.577 --> 00:02:40.477
Glenn Orts, and said, my parents were told.
00:02:41.717 --> 00:02:46.897
If your son couldn't keep his mouth shut, we would make him disappear in the
00:02:46.897 --> 00:02:51.637
night, and you, too, have to pay for the bullet. Got them really scared.
00:02:52.657 --> 00:02:58.797
And so they reached out to my late grandfather in Hong Kong and who was attending
00:02:58.797 --> 00:03:07.197
World Methodist Church Conference in Hawaii and talked to his buddy, Dr. Glenn Hortz.
00:03:07.597 --> 00:03:10.977
And so Glenn said, no problem.
00:03:11.417 --> 00:03:20.537
I'm going to get him a scholarship. And also, I'm going to write to U.S.
00:03:20.577 --> 00:03:24.137
Consul General's office and get him a visa.
00:03:24.437 --> 00:03:30.117
Now, Glenn was a Democrat, and Glenn was U.S.
00:03:30.177 --> 00:03:33.917
Ambassador to UNICEF under President Kennedy.
00:03:34.117 --> 00:03:41.497
So my Methodist Church connection and my Democrat Party connection paid off.
00:03:41.497 --> 00:03:51.437
Within six months or so, I got my Chinese passport and U.S. visa, and I left China.
00:03:51.657 --> 00:03:58.057
I landed in Anchorage, Alaska on October 23, 1980.
00:03:58.797 --> 00:04:00.517
Now, that's a very important day for me.
00:04:01.277 --> 00:04:04.257
It was my liberation day, right? Isn't it?
00:04:04.257 --> 00:04:09.397
And so for somebody, escaped tyranny,
00:04:09.637 --> 00:04:20.117
found freedom in America, and realized what I need to do is start defending my newfound freedom.
00:04:20.377 --> 00:04:28.117
And so I got involved in Republican Party politics and got elected first time
00:04:28.117 --> 00:04:33.957
in 2000 as a Republican National Committee man for Oregon.
00:04:34.257 --> 00:04:39.697
That was my title and got re-elected again, again for six terms.
00:04:39.797 --> 00:04:41.577
Those are four years term.
00:04:42.677 --> 00:04:45.957
And so I just finished my 24 year
00:04:45.957 --> 00:04:53.377
service on the last day of our national convention this year in Milwaukee.
00:04:54.503 --> 00:05:04.383
Fast forward, since I got involved, one of my forte really is policy, i.e.
00:05:04.443 --> 00:05:09.163
Passing RNC resolution advocating a policy.
00:05:09.763 --> 00:05:17.383
Philosophically, I am a constitutionalist before I am a Republican.
00:05:17.383 --> 00:05:27.883
So when I, in 2014, and lots of overseas Americans complained about FECA.
00:05:28.063 --> 00:05:34.543
And when I see FECA, I see something is not just double taxation issue,
00:05:34.843 --> 00:05:44.823
is not a reporting requirement or the burden of paying tax prepares and very
00:05:44.823 --> 00:05:46.723
expensive stuff like that.
00:05:46.723 --> 00:05:50.163
What I see in two parts, constitutional violations.
00:05:50.803 --> 00:05:58.123
One is you guys, overseas Americans, have to report your assets.
00:05:58.583 --> 00:06:05.983
And in the States, we only have to report my earning on my bank accounts through
00:06:05.983 --> 00:06:10.343
1099. So that was a privacy violation to begin with.
00:06:10.583 --> 00:06:18.083
And two, you overseas Americans being treated as second-class citizens.
00:06:18.703 --> 00:06:26.183
Now, that to me, those are problems for me as a person from freedom in America.
00:06:26.183 --> 00:06:33.503
So foremost, I realized if you got a 9 million overseas Americans out there,
00:06:33.583 --> 00:06:39.263
and if we're going to represent them, we have to fight to repeal FACA.
00:06:39.703 --> 00:06:41.803
That's what I started. All right,
00:06:41.823 --> 00:06:46.803
so you identify the issue of having repealed FACA. Now, can I ask you?
00:06:47.832 --> 00:06:50.992
Now, I know that there was an older organization, Republicans Abroad,
00:06:50.992 --> 00:06:52.572
that I don't know a great deal about.
00:06:52.752 --> 00:06:57.392
But I gather that about this time that you sort of pulled in the reins and said,
00:06:57.392 --> 00:07:01.752
we're going to create Republicans Overseas as an organization. Is that what happened?
00:07:02.292 --> 00:07:08.372
That's correct. The reason we did that was Republicans Abroad closed their office.
00:07:09.352 --> 00:07:17.512
And so that is a gap. But at the same time, Republicans Abroad is a club, a social club.
00:07:17.512 --> 00:07:23.472
They get together, talk about politics, have a meal, lunch, or dinner,
00:07:23.612 --> 00:07:25.332
whatever. It's a social gallery.
00:07:26.132 --> 00:07:34.512
And it's not a political organization advocating policies, advocating issues
00:07:34.512 --> 00:07:36.772
for 9 million overseas Americans.
00:07:37.252 --> 00:07:44.852
Since I came out of the party system and I know how to do presidential-level
00:07:44.852 --> 00:07:50.272
campaign on one hand, I also know how to advocate policies,
00:07:50.932 --> 00:07:57.792
including lobbying political leaders in both chambers in Washington,
00:07:57.872 --> 00:08:02.352
D.C., and including lobbying the White House, lobbying the president himself.
00:08:02.352 --> 00:08:07.672
And so when I see this, I realized,
00:08:07.892 --> 00:08:18.532
one, if we're going to represent Republicans in general, those are Republican voters abroad.
00:08:19.192 --> 00:08:23.872
And we have to carry water for that issue.
00:08:24.032 --> 00:08:28.552
In fact, it was the issue. So first thing I did, 2014.
00:08:30.132 --> 00:08:42.252
I authored and passed a RNC resolution in support of residency-based taxation.
00:08:42.592 --> 00:08:48.672
I realized citizenship-based taxation really is the cause.
00:08:49.786 --> 00:08:55.286
So I was very early on realize the fundamental problem right there.
00:08:55.526 --> 00:09:00.866
But in Washington, D.C., the reality is one,
00:09:01.006 --> 00:09:08.046
lots of people will do lip service to you and lots of people will tell you one
00:09:08.046 --> 00:09:10.566
thing and they do something else.
00:09:11.506 --> 00:09:18.386
And also they see overseas Americans as ATM machine.
00:09:18.526 --> 00:09:24.546
Each time Washington, D.C. need more money, they're going to squeeze you. It's as simple as that.
00:09:24.846 --> 00:09:29.026
So they sort of come in, these are what are called revenue offset provisions.
00:09:29.346 --> 00:09:34.246
They need a way to pay for something. They say, well, let's invent a new tax
00:09:34.246 --> 00:09:40.406
on Americans abroad or let's increase the reporting penalties for FBAR and things like that.
00:09:40.566 --> 00:09:43.366
These are examples of this kind of stuff, right? Exactly. Yeah.
00:09:43.486 --> 00:09:46.586
You know, to balance their spending, basically.
00:09:46.966 --> 00:09:50.726
Okay. When they propose a spending and they use you guys to balance the spending,
00:09:50.926 --> 00:09:53.466
taxing you to balance the spending.
00:09:54.466 --> 00:10:00.306
So when I see that, so I realize first thing is we're going to sue IRS.
00:10:01.706 --> 00:10:07.206
Okay. So now what you're referring to now, this would be the, was it 2012 or 2014?
00:10:07.486 --> 00:10:10.186
This is what was called the FATCA legal action lawsuit.
00:10:10.566 --> 00:10:12.926
Correct? That's correct. 2015.
00:10:13.466 --> 00:10:19.606
Okay. You know, after I pass a RNC resolution in a ideal world,
00:10:19.666 --> 00:10:27.146
when you pass a resolution, all my party leaders, because this is a national resolution, right?
00:10:27.246 --> 00:10:30.226
And with a follow resolution principle, right?
00:10:30.406 --> 00:10:32.406
And we'll do something.
00:10:32.906 --> 00:10:37.806
Unfortunately, what I learned is that overseas Americans,
00:10:38.286 --> 00:10:43.886
they not vote for one thing, not too many of them, even though you got a 9 million
00:10:43.886 --> 00:10:49.326
overseas Americans out there, but not everybody voting. That's one problem.
00:10:49.626 --> 00:10:52.826
And two, guess what D.C. respond to?
00:10:52.986 --> 00:11:00.126
Either you are a big donor or you got lots of votes as a voting bloc.
00:11:00.126 --> 00:11:05.326
The problem, again, most of the votes are not in one district,
00:11:05.566 --> 00:11:09.886
one congressional district or one senatorial district.
00:11:10.879 --> 00:11:17.819
And so your vote is spread all over. So I realized my resolution passed.
00:11:18.239 --> 00:11:19.679
It is not that effective.
00:11:20.179 --> 00:11:24.559
You can't really hold the competition free to the people.
00:11:24.959 --> 00:11:28.759
Yeah, you know, you're absolutely right, of course. Let's explore this,
00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:31.239
you know, this problem of the
00:11:31.239 --> 00:11:35.179
votes of Americans abroad being distributed here, there, and everywhere.
00:11:35.299 --> 00:11:39.319
And therefore, it's really impossible for them to vote as a voting bloc.
00:11:39.319 --> 00:11:44.159
You know, it's been suggested that Americans abroad should have their own representatives
00:11:44.159 --> 00:11:49.619
in Congress, the way that people who live in various territories do.
00:11:49.719 --> 00:11:55.119
Do you think that it would make sense and that it would help this issue if there
00:11:55.119 --> 00:11:58.539
were sort of some seats allocated for Americans abroad in Congress?
00:11:59.199 --> 00:12:04.319
No. That's what I call French model. Actually, French has a senator,
00:12:04.499 --> 00:12:11.739
a friend of mine, living in Louisiana, representing French expats in America.
00:12:13.199 --> 00:12:19.519
But the problem is one congressman, one senator won't help you.
00:12:20.459 --> 00:12:27.299
And also a so-called territorial representation like Guam.
00:12:28.859 --> 00:12:33.579
Guam's congresswoman is a friend of mine, also served on the Republican National Committee.
00:12:33.879 --> 00:12:38.599
But she is not a voting member of Congress.
00:12:38.979 --> 00:12:42.459
That's not a problem. So it's sort of like they can sit and listen,
00:12:42.579 --> 00:12:43.579
but they can't participate.
00:12:44.699 --> 00:12:49.059
No, they can cast a vote. The first vote for the speakership.
00:12:49.059 --> 00:12:50.959
That's it. That's it. On top of that.
00:12:51.359 --> 00:12:55.279
And her vote is useless. So...
00:12:56.511 --> 00:13:02.911
It was a 10-year learning experience or process for me as well.
00:13:03.051 --> 00:13:05.611
The reason is you find this kind
00:13:05.611 --> 00:13:12.151
of stuff out, and you realize probably a resolution alone won't cut it.
00:13:12.251 --> 00:13:20.391
I also managed to get that resolution into a RNC national platform as a plank.
00:13:20.391 --> 00:13:29.491
OK, and hopefully, in theory, all Republican nominees and Republicans office
00:13:29.491 --> 00:13:33.951
holders should upholding platform principles.
00:13:34.211 --> 00:13:38.411
And guess what? Because your votes spread everywhere.
00:13:38.771 --> 00:13:45.731
And in that in a single district, you don't have enough votes to have a voice.
00:13:45.871 --> 00:13:47.351
That was one of the problem.
00:13:47.571 --> 00:13:53.251
And so, look. Yeah. So, Solomon, what you say is absolutely true.
00:13:54.111 --> 00:13:59.971
So, I'm wondering, I mean, I think it's tough being a U.S. citizen voting from
00:13:59.971 --> 00:14:01.351
abroad. I think it's really tough.
00:14:01.631 --> 00:14:04.491
I mean, how do you think they ought to think about their vote?
00:14:04.751 --> 00:14:08.091
I mean, there's all this pressure in social media to get out,
00:14:08.151 --> 00:14:09.651
vote, vote, vote, vote, vote.
00:14:10.091 --> 00:14:13.091
What is it they're trying to do with their vote?
00:14:13.171 --> 00:14:18.831
I mean, Do they vote pretending that there are no citizenship taxation issues,
00:14:19.191 --> 00:14:20.451
that none of this matters?
00:14:20.911 --> 00:14:24.271
I mean, there's different kinds of people, but how do they think about this?
00:14:25.671 --> 00:14:30.051
My advice to them is that's how I started 2016.
00:14:30.791 --> 00:14:34.311
I went, you know, we have 17 presidential candidates.
00:14:34.651 --> 00:14:41.251
I went to every single presidential candidate to talk to them about ending double taxation.
00:14:41.251 --> 00:14:49.091
And the reason is when you reach a level of presidential politics,
00:14:49.571 --> 00:14:52.871
all overseas votes are concentrated.
00:14:54.837 --> 00:14:59.337
Whatever the Democrat nominee or the Republican nominee, right?
00:15:00.037 --> 00:15:03.797
And at that point, you do have leverage.
00:15:03.937 --> 00:15:10.237
You can waste your leverage or you can use your leverage to do something, okay?
00:15:10.297 --> 00:15:16.777
That's why I said it took me 10 years to get to where I am today, all right?
00:15:16.777 --> 00:15:24.077
Now, fast forward to platform, FECA, I mean, RBT,
00:15:24.637 --> 00:15:31.597
Residency-Based Taxation Resolution didn't work and become part of platform,
00:15:32.017 --> 00:15:34.817
RNC platform, it didn't work.
00:15:34.817 --> 00:15:37.177
So we started a lawsuit.
00:15:37.697 --> 00:15:42.777
And actually, we got nine, no, seven plaintiffs.
00:15:43.177 --> 00:15:46.917
Senator Rand Paul was one of our seven plaintiffs.
00:15:47.297 --> 00:15:54.077
And we go through about 100 plaintiffs and wind up with seven. Okay.
00:15:54.397 --> 00:15:59.557
And of course, you know, you have to raise the money. It was a very expensive lawsuit.
00:16:00.057 --> 00:16:11.897
And the problem was federal court decided all seven plaintiffs had no legal standing to sue IRS.
00:16:12.657 --> 00:16:20.817
What was the legal standing holdup? It was the fact IRS did not send any seven
00:16:20.817 --> 00:16:22.857
of them a threatening letter.
00:16:22.917 --> 00:16:29.117
If you don't do X, Y, Z, and we're going to seize your assets.
00:16:30.342 --> 00:16:39.922
So no legal standing. And take to the circuit court, and they overhauled a law court ruling.
00:16:40.282 --> 00:16:45.602
Then take all the way to U.S. Supreme Court. They didn't want to hear the case.
00:16:45.942 --> 00:16:50.222
So what the Supreme Court ruled, and this is just my memory of this,
00:16:50.302 --> 00:16:57.862
is that they would not hear the case specifically on the denial of standing, right?
00:16:58.442 --> 00:17:02.882
That's correct. Correct. So in other words, the case was never heard.
00:17:03.082 --> 00:17:06.502
It was, we're not going to let you hear the case because you're not allowed
00:17:06.502 --> 00:17:10.302
to bring the case, right? That's sort of in people's pocket. Yeah.
00:17:10.882 --> 00:17:15.962
No standing is the easiest way to defeat your opponent, basically.
00:17:15.982 --> 00:17:20.782
You know, hey, you don't have standing and, you know, go away kind of situation. Right, right.
00:17:21.402 --> 00:17:26.922
Well, I mean, it's incredible that, you know, that you kept it going and got as far as you did.
00:17:26.922 --> 00:17:31.422
Because my memory of this is that, you know, the time between the beginning
00:17:31.422 --> 00:17:34.922
of that, I remember beginning with you had a press conference in London,
00:17:35.002 --> 00:17:36.742
didn't you? In front of the U.S. embassy.
00:17:36.902 --> 00:17:39.682
I actually remember seeing that on the media.
00:17:40.302 --> 00:17:44.902
Yeah, that was great. I mean, I know one of the people personally standing there.
00:17:45.622 --> 00:17:50.202
But it was, this was what, four years? Did it take four years or so before the
00:17:50.202 --> 00:17:52.622
Supreme Court finally said now we're...
00:17:53.302 --> 00:17:56.582
That's correct. Correct. Took four years, but at the same time,
00:17:56.662 --> 00:17:59.162
I usually run two tracks, okay?
00:17:59.442 --> 00:18:02.182
And the second track is a legislative track.
00:18:02.882 --> 00:18:08.022
So what we did was, do you remember Congressman Mark Middles?
00:18:08.482 --> 00:18:13.362
Later, he became President Trump's White House Chief of Staff.
00:18:13.822 --> 00:18:18.402
Yeah, to the 2017 Meadows hearing. Sure. Yeah, I was there. Yeah. Right.
00:18:18.562 --> 00:18:26.042
And his subcommittee, government accountability, hold a hearing on FACA.
00:18:26.442 --> 00:18:35.642
And Jim Bob was one of the three witnesses testified, our lawyer himself, and others.
00:18:35.722 --> 00:18:38.962
You were there. We have a group picture.
00:18:39.122 --> 00:18:44.902
I saw you were in that picture too. And so FECA problem really got exposed,
00:18:45.242 --> 00:18:47.642
and all the legal issues got exposed.
00:18:48.122 --> 00:18:57.842
So the second track is working. As a result of his hearing, he decided to sponsor a bill to repeal FECA.
00:18:58.942 --> 00:19:04.902
And Senator Rand Paul, our plaintiff, one of the seven plaintiffs,
00:19:04.982 --> 00:19:08.342
also decided he learned the process as well.
00:19:08.342 --> 00:19:15.522
Well, he realized, you know, how unfair the legal system was regarding.
00:19:17.091 --> 00:19:20.471
Our FECA lawsuit, right? And he decided to repeal FECA.
00:19:21.391 --> 00:19:28.671
But the problem is, again, and remember the gentleman, John McCain? Yeah.
00:19:29.371 --> 00:19:37.811
Senator John McCain hates overseas Americans. He considers all Americans because
00:19:37.811 --> 00:19:41.931
you guys have foreign accounts.
00:19:42.391 --> 00:19:45.031
You guys are tax cheats. Okay?
00:19:45.531 --> 00:19:52.691
And so So when you have one senator block the bill and the bill never have a
00:19:52.691 --> 00:19:59.011
chance because no politician wants to spend their political capital and to get
00:19:59.011 --> 00:20:04.291
the bill out of the committee and then got killed in the Senate somewhere.
00:20:04.411 --> 00:20:10.431
Right. And knowing you have a major, major opposition for a FECA repeal bill.
00:20:10.431 --> 00:20:17.511
So Obama gave you guys FACA, and really FACA you, right?
00:20:17.791 --> 00:20:23.271
It was change you can believe in. It was change you can believe in. That's correct.
00:20:23.631 --> 00:20:26.971
And you have less change in your pocket, actually, right?
00:20:27.951 --> 00:20:30.211
Plus finding your privacy right.
00:20:31.291 --> 00:20:38.951
And then Senator McCain just doubled down and FACA you as well, right? Right.
00:20:39.111 --> 00:20:41.831
And so that's where we are now.
00:20:42.351 --> 00:20:44.631
Fast forward to 2017.
00:20:46.051 --> 00:20:51.371
2017, actually, we were part of a Trump tax reform.
00:20:51.851 --> 00:20:55.531
And remember, I told you I share that with all the candidates,
00:20:55.871 --> 00:21:00.951
presidential candidates of the go to end double taxation. Yes. Guess what?
00:21:01.491 --> 00:21:08.431
Running into how to pay for it. So I was waiting to give up.
00:21:08.831 --> 00:21:12.891
9-11 tax deduction, okay?
00:21:13.751 --> 00:21:16.551
Because, you know, that time, if you...
00:21:18.568 --> 00:21:24.228
You make $100,000 above for U.S.
00:21:24.228 --> 00:21:31.888
Tax liability, first $100,000 exempt, then you still have to pay $20,000 on
00:21:31.888 --> 00:21:35.708
your tax, whatever, let's say you make $120,000, right?
00:21:36.328 --> 00:21:42.168
But overseas, $120,000 is poverty level, right?
00:21:42.468 --> 00:21:46.408
And you're not really making money. Because prices are so much higher,
00:21:46.548 --> 00:21:49.288
to be clear. That's correct.
00:21:50.188 --> 00:22:00.168
And so you wind up still pay 100% tax to the country you are working and residing.
00:22:00.548 --> 00:22:07.188
But meanwhile, what really is killing you is the tax appropriation bill from
00:22:07.188 --> 00:22:09.748
your CPA for U.S. tax return.
00:22:10.208 --> 00:22:16.028
So that was the problem. We all recognize that. And so based on this,
00:22:16.248 --> 00:22:28.388
even though I offer to forego so-called tax deduction and to end double taxation,
00:22:28.828 --> 00:22:37.408
so overseas Americans only have to pay tax where they earn an income.
00:22:37.408 --> 00:22:44.208
All right. So that was the idea started then during this part of tax reform.
00:22:44.468 --> 00:22:50.388
However, they couldn't score how much money we're really talking about saving,
00:22:50.508 --> 00:22:51.808
right, for the government.
00:22:52.108 --> 00:22:55.168
So we got left behind during that process.
00:22:55.388 --> 00:23:00.168
Time running out and both House and Senate have to vote on the bill.
00:23:00.248 --> 00:23:05.068
We don't have the score. That was the reason we were not part of it.
00:23:06.428 --> 00:23:11.128
So after that, we go to Congressman George Hogan.
00:23:12.028 --> 00:23:15.688
Same idea to end double taxation.
00:23:16.648 --> 00:23:22.828
Actually, if you remember, the bill he introduced, I had the honor to name it,
00:23:23.468 --> 00:23:29.568
called Tax Fairness for Americans Abroad Act.
00:23:30.068 --> 00:23:34.888
Yeah, no, I remember that very well. That came out, sure. It was right at the
00:23:34.888 --> 00:23:37.848
end of 2018. I remember it very, very well.
00:23:38.888 --> 00:23:44.848
And, you know, I mean, it was a very, very decent first step in tax reform, no question.
00:23:45.088 --> 00:23:51.248
But Solomon, can I just ask you this? And I think this might be useful for clarification. Sure.
00:23:52.254 --> 00:23:57.514
It's interesting to me that both today, right now, and in the announcement that
00:23:57.514 --> 00:24:01.894
we'll get to shortly, that we're using the phrase double taxation.
00:24:02.354 --> 00:24:06.974
And, you know, a lot of Americans think they're not double taxed,
00:24:06.974 --> 00:24:11.074
but they are double taxed because, you know, the very fact that the U.S.
00:24:11.094 --> 00:24:15.314
Has citizenship taxation means that they're completely subject to tax in both
00:24:15.314 --> 00:24:17.034
countries, right, which is the problem.
00:24:17.654 --> 00:24:21.574
You know, it may be that in some circumstances, In some circumstances,
00:24:21.814 --> 00:24:26.374
they don't pay twice tax on the same income, but, you know, there's a lot of
00:24:26.374 --> 00:24:27.834
circumstances where they do.
00:24:28.034 --> 00:24:33.414
So, you know, U.S. citizenship taxation really means double taxation, doesn't it?
00:24:33.974 --> 00:24:39.254
Totally, yes. And also, if I, you know, may I use the example,
00:24:39.414 --> 00:24:42.974
if you want to know how I saw the idea, right?
00:24:42.974 --> 00:24:49.394
And if an English teacher working in Paris, very expensive city to live,
00:24:49.814 --> 00:24:57.434
and they pay her $120,000 a year, poverty-level salary.
00:24:58.634 --> 00:25:07.094
And now, even though first $100,000 exempt, Uncle Sam is not going to tax her.
00:25:07.094 --> 00:25:19.214
However, for the $20,000, she will be taxed, but in order to file the entire tax return,
00:25:19.494 --> 00:25:28.854
it's going to cost her more money for tax preparation than what she owes on the $20,000.
00:25:30.913 --> 00:25:37.013
Yeah, there's that problem, and there's the problem of very penalty-laden reporting
00:25:37.013 --> 00:25:40.373
and that sort of stuff. I mean, let me put it this way.
00:25:40.793 --> 00:25:45.133
This is not a problem for Americans abroad who don't file the taxes.
00:25:45.273 --> 00:25:46.753
Of course it's not a problem, right?
00:25:47.153 --> 00:25:52.213
But what's interesting about this is that it's one of these rare situations
00:25:52.213 --> 00:25:56.873
in life where it's a bigger problem for people who comply with the laws.
00:25:57.753 --> 00:26:01.753
That's correct. Correct. And the reason is if you are going to come back to
00:26:01.753 --> 00:26:07.933
the states and eventually, you know, they catch up with you.
00:26:08.093 --> 00:26:12.013
Right. And so from that, it is a issue.
00:26:12.153 --> 00:26:19.033
OK, now, since President was talking about no tax on tips.
00:26:19.533 --> 00:26:24.673
Right. Think about no tax on tips is same kind of situation.
00:26:24.673 --> 00:26:28.613
Not lots of money very burdensome
00:26:28.613 --> 00:26:31.533
to track lots of people are not
00:26:31.533 --> 00:26:35.213
reporting in the States okay and
00:26:35.213 --> 00:26:40.233
think about overseas Americans okay and if you really want to track pay somebody
00:26:40.233 --> 00:26:46.673
to you know do the reporting and tax preparation is going to be very expensive
00:26:46.673 --> 00:26:53.773
and so that got me thinking I have another shot I need to talk to the president.
00:26:54.673 --> 00:27:00.253
And make sure everybody understands what's going on, including his campaign
00:27:00.253 --> 00:27:04.433
senior staff members and policy guys.
00:27:04.693 --> 00:27:12.393
Then think about President Trump promised no tax social security income.
00:27:13.473 --> 00:27:21.313
Guess what was that concept? A double taxation. When you pay Uncle Sam tax when
00:27:21.313 --> 00:27:23.973
you're working, right? You paid already.
00:27:24.673 --> 00:27:28.273
When you receive Social Security and you still have to pay again,
00:27:28.473 --> 00:27:30.833
is this double taxation or not?
00:27:32.018 --> 00:27:34.638
Well, a lot of people would see it that way, that's for sure.
00:27:34.958 --> 00:27:39.358
But I think what all these things have in common, Solomon, is not so much the
00:27:39.358 --> 00:27:45.178
technicalities, but you talk about no tax on tips, the taxation of Social Security,
00:27:45.538 --> 00:27:48.638
the unfair taxation of Americans abroad.
00:27:48.718 --> 00:27:53.698
These are really issues that affect, you know, it's an issue of fairness in
00:27:53.698 --> 00:27:57.178
relation to normal, middle-class, everyday people, right?
00:27:57.538 --> 00:28:01.578
Yeah. So I saw the president on the fairness side.
00:28:02.018 --> 00:28:09.438
And I also saw the concept. He is big on America first.
00:28:09.758 --> 00:28:13.238
America first really means Americans first.
00:28:13.978 --> 00:28:20.838
And so we spent billions now to help Ukraine. All right.
00:28:20.878 --> 00:28:24.498
And meanwhile, nobody helped overseas Americans.
00:28:24.738 --> 00:28:28.478
Nobody helped Social Security recipients.
00:28:29.118 --> 00:28:32.678
Right. So that's how I got it.
00:28:33.078 --> 00:28:38.338
Ending double taxation of overseas Americans.
00:28:39.098 --> 00:28:42.638
Well, you know, this is really significant, Solomon, because,
00:28:42.878 --> 00:28:46.998
you know, all these years, right, there's just been sort of,
00:28:46.998 --> 00:28:48.738
you know, people crying in the wilderness,
00:28:49.258 --> 00:28:56.438
cries unheard, you know, and what's interesting about this is, as far as I'm aware,
00:28:56.878 --> 00:29:01.858
I may be wrong, but as far as I'm aware, this is the first actual recognition
00:29:01.858 --> 00:29:08.438
of this as a problem from a presidential candidate and former president to boot. Am I right on that?
00:29:09.338 --> 00:29:12.438
That's totally right. And also, it's historical.
00:29:12.998 --> 00:29:20.538
I got involved in presidential politics since 1996, Bob Doerr.
00:29:21.298 --> 00:29:30.578
Okay. And all those campaigns, this is the first campaign, actually agree with this kind of statement.
00:29:30.578 --> 00:29:37.918
And by the way, I had a conversation with President's campaign staff members.
00:29:39.038 --> 00:29:45.258
Guess what they told me? For this kind of policy issue, President Trump himself
00:29:45.258 --> 00:29:50.418
has to review it, has to approve it, has to give you the language you can use.
00:29:50.418 --> 00:29:55.238
So the language I got, President Donald J.
00:29:55.338 --> 00:30:01.898
Trump supports ending double taxation of overseas Americans, period.
00:30:02.898 --> 00:30:09.138
So that language, supporting ending double taxation for overseas Americans,
00:30:09.578 --> 00:30:12.738
what that really is, is...
00:30:14.167 --> 00:30:17.407
Recognition of the problems that the
00:30:17.407 --> 00:30:20.307
taxation of overseas americans causes for
00:30:20.307 --> 00:30:23.387
americans right that's sort of what it is recognition of
00:30:23.387 --> 00:30:30.087
unfairness and fair because because of the fairness issue right yeah so i think
00:30:30.087 --> 00:30:34.847
it's important here you know i've been reading the social media comments after
00:30:34.847 --> 00:30:41.447
your you know you're introducing this with your video a couple of days ago And there's a lot of, well,
00:30:41.687 --> 00:30:45.447
you know, we want specifics and we want this and we want that.
00:30:45.787 --> 00:30:50.567
And understandably, you know, well, we've been promised things before.
00:30:50.667 --> 00:30:55.027
I'm not sure that's true exactly, but OK. But, you know, we didn't promise anything.
00:30:55.407 --> 00:31:00.367
No presidential nominee from my party ever promised them anything.
00:31:00.567 --> 00:31:05.087
I think that's right. I think that's right. Right. So I think it's important
00:31:05.087 --> 00:31:09.507
to be clear here on, you know, because people say, well, what does this mean for me?
00:31:09.587 --> 00:31:12.547
All right. So I'm going to suggest that what it means.
00:31:12.947 --> 00:31:18.147
And then I invite you to add is that, well, for the first time that I'm aware
00:31:18.147 --> 00:31:21.687
of, we have a presidential candidate who's aware of this as an issue,
00:31:21.827 --> 00:31:28.227
sees as an issue of fairness and is willing to think about it and hopefully
00:31:28.227 --> 00:31:31.567
do something to rectify this unfairness.
00:31:31.567 --> 00:31:33.547
Is that accurate?
00:31:33.987 --> 00:31:37.287
Not only accurate, I would take one more step further.
00:31:37.627 --> 00:31:44.387
As you know, I supported President Trump since 2016.
00:31:44.887 --> 00:31:47.767
I fought for his nomination because
00:31:47.767 --> 00:31:54.587
there are two attempts to hijack his nomination. I fought them off.
00:31:54.827 --> 00:32:02.487
You have to ask why. Why? First time in 2016, I realized he is a different kind of candidate.
00:32:02.587 --> 00:32:10.567
To begin with, he was not a part of a swamp or part of DC creature.
00:32:10.847 --> 00:32:13.287
Say one thing and do something else.
00:32:14.491 --> 00:32:20.071
That to me is very important because, remember, I am a constitutionalist foremost.
00:32:21.151 --> 00:32:27.811
That means first constitutional principle says the consent of the governed.
00:32:28.531 --> 00:32:31.391
Consent of the governed concept go like this.
00:32:32.111 --> 00:32:40.251
I'm a candidate for president. I made lots of campaign promises and got your vote and got elected.
00:32:40.671 --> 00:32:46.111
So I got the consent. And meanwhile, for the next four years,
00:32:46.751 --> 00:32:54.591
how I govern really is important because to restore this constitutional principle,
00:32:54.991 --> 00:32:59.471
you have to deliver on your campaign promises.
00:33:00.651 --> 00:33:07.371
During Trump's four years, he did that. So that's something I realized if I
00:33:07.371 --> 00:33:12.691
can get him agree to a position,
00:33:12.911 --> 00:33:19.111
policy position for overseas Americans, which is ending double taxation.
00:33:19.111 --> 00:33:33.991
I can count him to deliver the next Trump tax reform package and I will be part of no tax on tips,
00:33:34.251 --> 00:33:37.331
no tax on Social Security income.
00:33:38.511 --> 00:33:42.331
And the other thing is when the White House wants something,
00:33:43.415 --> 00:33:49.515
Two shops working together, the political shop and the legislative policy shop
00:33:49.515 --> 00:33:56.895
working together, and also working with House Ways Means Committee and Senate Finance Committee.
00:33:57.315 --> 00:34:01.755
Now, guess what? That's a totally different program.
00:34:01.955 --> 00:34:06.575
It's not like holding a bill standing alone.
00:34:06.755 --> 00:34:13.535
That's one. very easy to get killed or never come out of the committee, right?
00:34:13.855 --> 00:34:21.875
And not like one single senator could shoot down the whole thing because he
00:34:21.875 --> 00:34:27.655
gets elected, he would have a mandate to do tax reform, right?
00:34:27.755 --> 00:34:33.895
When he has that mandate, not a single senator, not a single congressman can
00:34:33.895 --> 00:34:37.675
kill that mandate or can kill the tax reform package.
00:34:38.435 --> 00:34:44.335
But on the other hand, there will be variation and how much I want is going
00:34:44.335 --> 00:34:46.895
to be there in an ideal world.
00:34:47.555 --> 00:34:55.815
Since you only pay tax where you receive or earn an income, that means you don't
00:34:55.815 --> 00:34:58.715
pay NGOSAM if you don't have U.S. income.
00:34:58.995 --> 00:35:02.795
You You don't pay Uncle Sam because you have no U.S. income.
00:35:02.955 --> 00:35:10.115
It also means you don't have to pay for expensive tax procuration.
00:35:10.655 --> 00:35:14.815
Well, basically, so it ends the current situation where U.S.
00:35:14.835 --> 00:35:17.755
Citizens are supposed to pay the U.S.
00:35:17.835 --> 00:35:21.335
Citizens who don't live in the United States are supposed to be paying the U.S.
00:35:21.535 --> 00:35:26.775
Tax on income they earn outside the United States, right? That's what it really does. Exactly that.
00:35:28.210 --> 00:35:33.270
The way you describe it is really interesting to me for a number of reasons,
00:35:33.510 --> 00:35:34.910
but let me start with this.
00:35:35.070 --> 00:35:41.310
What I'm understanding you to be saying is that the attention to the tax situation
00:35:41.310 --> 00:35:47.690
Americans brought is really part of a package of just overall fairness.
00:35:48.510 --> 00:35:54.550
Here, let's have some fairness proposals to get rid of some of this unfairness. That's good. Good.
00:35:55.070 --> 00:35:59.890
Second thing that I think is interesting about this, because I can imagine,
00:35:59.950 --> 00:36:03.910
you know, listeners to this or commentators would say, well,
00:36:03.990 --> 00:36:07.730
you know, what does it matter what President Trump thinks?
00:36:07.850 --> 00:36:11.570
You know, he doesn't make the laws and, you know, all this sort of stuff.
00:36:11.570 --> 00:36:16.270
But I would point out that a very large part of U.S.
00:36:16.310 --> 00:36:20.510
Tax law is through Treasury regulations, which are completely under the control
00:36:20.510 --> 00:36:24.610
of the president, either directly or indirectly.
00:36:25.010 --> 00:36:30.750
And there's no doubt in my mind that a future President Trump could change this
00:36:30.750 --> 00:36:33.710
by regulation in a way that, you know, a few years ago,
00:36:33.910 --> 00:36:38.570
Laura Snyder, Karen Albert, and I wrote a paper called A Regulatory Fix for
00:36:38.570 --> 00:36:41.550
Citizenship Taxation that outlines exactly how to do it.
00:36:41.570 --> 00:36:49.170
That right right so i mean this is this actually opens the door i think to this be achievable.
00:36:50.130 --> 00:36:56.850
Because it's an endorsement from the president okay people on a level that is
00:36:56.850 --> 00:37:03.410
possibly that has never really been possible before right no you know i talk
00:37:03.410 --> 00:37:08.770
about my experience for last 10 years what I have done,
00:37:08.950 --> 00:37:11.910
and when peace was missing,
00:37:12.690 --> 00:37:19.810
I didn't have President Trump 2017 get behind what I tried to accomplish.
00:37:21.270 --> 00:37:26.370
And holding, Congressman holding, did not have President Trump to get behind.
00:37:27.410 --> 00:37:34.470
Well, and he also didn't have a package of necessary tax reform coming up either, right? Correct.
00:37:34.910 --> 00:37:39.630
I mean, it's hard to get a stand-alone.
00:37:40.130 --> 00:37:48.330
We couldn't score the reform for overseas Americans, how much work costs. Right.
00:37:48.930 --> 00:37:54.730
So, I mean, this is very good, very, very good, very positive,
00:37:54.770 --> 00:38:00.470
and very interesting news for Americans abroad. broad, but I think it's important
00:38:00.470 --> 00:38:03.250
to manage expectations here.
00:38:03.610 --> 00:38:09.490
And again, what this is is.
00:38:11.314 --> 00:38:15.554
The president, the president's ear, the president's attention,
00:38:15.854 --> 00:38:20.494
the president's understanding that this is an issue of fairness that should be rectified.
00:38:21.274 --> 00:38:25.974
That's a different thing from precisely how, whether through legislation,
00:38:26.114 --> 00:38:27.374
regulation or whatever.
00:38:27.574 --> 00:38:32.354
But you would agree with me, I think, Solomon, that the first step in getting
00:38:32.354 --> 00:38:35.794
anything done is to, well, want to get it done, right?
00:38:36.514 --> 00:38:40.254
Yes. A desire to get it done at a presidential level.
00:38:40.814 --> 00:38:44.894
So, I mean, I think that's really, really helpful. I think that's good news.
00:38:45.094 --> 00:38:51.534
And, you know, I think I hope that people understand both the potential tempered
00:38:51.534 --> 00:38:57.234
by the limitations as of today on this. But I mean, this is this is really key stuff.
00:38:57.574 --> 00:39:03.094
And, you know, Solomon, I mean, I've known you for years and I know how hard,
00:39:03.094 --> 00:39:05.234
how hard you've worked on a lot of this stuff.
00:39:05.314 --> 00:39:08.594
Cause I mean, we've been, we've done presentations and I think London,
00:39:08.634 --> 00:39:13.134
Greece, and, you know, various, various places together on this issue.
00:39:13.234 --> 00:39:16.154
So, I mean, I know how, how committed you've been to this and,
00:39:16.194 --> 00:39:21.754
you know, I, I certainly thank you personally and generally on behalf of Americans
00:39:21.754 --> 00:39:25.234
abroad or overseas Americans or whatever you want to call them for for your
00:39:25.234 --> 00:39:28.214
tenacious focus on this.
00:39:28.314 --> 00:39:31.354
So this is great. I am excited.
00:39:32.534 --> 00:39:37.094
Well, I think you should be. I mean, I think that this is, you know,
00:39:37.094 --> 00:39:40.514
it's funny, from an outside point of view, people may think, so what?
00:39:40.654 --> 00:39:45.574
But I mean, you know, this is a major achievement, you know, where we go from it.
00:39:45.654 --> 00:39:48.474
In many ways, I think this is the best chance of going anywhere,
00:39:48.694 --> 00:39:51.574
you know, because of where the energy is coming from, right?
00:39:52.214 --> 00:39:57.534
Yeah. And also think about this, right? you were right about double taxation
00:39:57.534 --> 00:40:03.874
is a constitutional issue, as far as I'm concerned,
00:40:04.094 --> 00:40:08.814
because overseas Americans are being treated as second-class citizens.
00:40:10.180 --> 00:40:13.520
Oh, no question about it. Absolutely no question about it.
00:40:13.620 --> 00:40:17.400
You know, so, I mean, there may be, as Laura Snyder has written a lot of essays
00:40:17.400 --> 00:40:18.880
on this, I mean, there may be
00:40:18.880 --> 00:40:23.980
and probably are equal protection issues at stake here as well, because,
00:40:24.100 --> 00:40:27.560
I mean, not only are Americans abroad taxed, but they're actually taxed more
00:40:27.560 --> 00:40:30.940
punitively, you know, specifically because they live abroad,
00:40:31.040 --> 00:40:33.840
and that doesn't even include the reporting requirements.
00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:39.440
But, you know, as we sort of come to an end today, I really appreciate your
00:40:39.440 --> 00:40:44.620
work and dedication and achievements as, you know, sort of heads of Republicans overseas.
00:40:44.700 --> 00:40:47.520
So I thank you for that. But I think, you know, there have been other people
00:40:47.520 --> 00:40:51.820
who've been heavily involved in this, and I think it'd be really good maybe
00:40:51.820 --> 00:40:53.880
to give a shout out to some of them as well.
00:40:54.540 --> 00:40:59.540
You know, I mean, who are the people involved in the original fact, a legal action lawsuit?
00:41:03.420 --> 00:41:07.500
There Right. The other ones, Mark Crawford. Right.
00:41:08.620 --> 00:41:13.180
Others and others. And then I think in the, you know, the Republicans overseas
00:41:13.180 --> 00:41:20.280
sort of group, there's certainly been Jim Gossard, Mark Zell, Kim Kettler Paddock.
00:41:20.660 --> 00:41:23.600
Right. They're just, you know, ones I can think of, et cetera.
00:41:23.700 --> 00:41:28.360
So, you know, it's been a lot of people, I think, you know, doing what they
00:41:28.360 --> 00:41:32.160
think are small things, but turn out to be big things in maybe a small way.
00:41:32.160 --> 00:41:36.600
I mean, I think it's the focus, and somehow as we come to an end here,
00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:40.760
I'm reminded of, I think this comes from the Marines, the difficult we do today,
00:41:40.920 --> 00:41:43.620
the impossible takes a bit longer. Is that what the saying is?
00:41:44.200 --> 00:41:49.500
Totally, yeah, and it took 10 years. When I finally got that statement from
00:41:49.500 --> 00:41:53.020
President Trump, I realized it had been 10 years.
00:41:53.360 --> 00:41:58.380
On our website, on Republicans Overseas website, our mission statement,
00:41:58.380 --> 00:42:07.740
two parts to our mission statement. One is keep Republican voters abroad politically informed.
00:42:09.060 --> 00:42:14.340
And second part of mission is bring their concerns to Washington, D.C.
00:42:14.340 --> 00:42:20.440
Political leaders and specifically our presidential candidates,
00:42:20.960 --> 00:42:26.540
not even nominee, okay, candidates to educate those guys. Now, guess what?
00:42:26.900 --> 00:42:33.560
We got a nominee issue a statement who happened to be a former president and
00:42:33.560 --> 00:42:37.420
got a track record to deliver. Oh, this is true.
00:42:37.720 --> 00:42:43.100
Well, and you know, let's see where this goes. I mean, we're down to what,
00:42:43.160 --> 00:42:44.640
I guess, a month before the election.
00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:50.940
But regardless, what's significant here is that this is the first time that
00:42:50.940 --> 00:42:54.000
this important issue has been acknowledged on that level.
00:42:54.180 --> 00:43:00.360
And that is an achievement, a reality, regardless of what happens going forward.
00:43:00.400 --> 00:43:01.900
You would agree? Totally.
00:43:02.200 --> 00:43:07.060
And also you will see Trump campaign surrogate.
00:43:08.470 --> 00:43:16.230
Also speaking of, Dr. Carson, former HUD secretary and the current campaign
00:43:16.230 --> 00:43:20.830
surrogate, already out there taped the message for us.
00:43:20.950 --> 00:43:26.450
We put our own Facebook as well as our own website.
00:43:26.450 --> 00:43:33.070
So when this kind of stuff coming out, you realize the entire campaign,
00:43:33.490 --> 00:43:40.890
President himself, including his surrogates, and understand this is an important issue.
00:43:40.950 --> 00:43:46.610
Like you said, it's a recognition, unfairness of double taxation.
00:43:47.810 --> 00:43:53.350
And an important initiative for all Americans, regardless of political party.
00:43:53.990 --> 00:44:01.070
Yeah, totally. Colin, this has been fantastic. I really enjoyed connecting with you today over Zoom.
00:44:01.190 --> 00:44:05.710
We haven't talked for a while. And I thank you, not only for your great work,
00:44:05.770 --> 00:44:08.870
but for getting up so early to have this discussion with me.
00:44:09.110 --> 00:44:13.950
And I think it's important where people would find ongoing discussion of this.
00:44:14.050 --> 00:44:18.050
So there's the republicanoverseas.com website, right? Right?
00:44:18.430 --> 00:44:21.370
Correct. And we have a Facebook as well.
00:44:21.930 --> 00:44:29.170
And I am being, trading it because I have 200,000 followers.
00:44:29.710 --> 00:44:31.830
And so it's all there already.
00:44:32.950 --> 00:44:37.470
Okay, that's great. And I think that, I believe that there's a Twitter handle
00:44:37.470 --> 00:44:41.150
for Republicans Overseas Tax. I think it's Rep Overseas Tax.
00:44:41.730 --> 00:44:44.970
That's correct. As well. So all of this is great stuff.
00:44:45.350 --> 00:44:50.910
So, and do you have any sort of Closing comments, words of wisdom, encouragement?
00:44:51.770 --> 00:44:56.190
Encouragement is definitely vote for your conscience.
00:44:56.570 --> 00:45:01.850
I would ask all overseas Americans to vote for President Trump.
00:45:02.810 --> 00:45:08.390
And I also would say a promise made today and promise will be kept.
00:45:09.630 --> 00:45:14.810
Then Republicans overseas will follow through on the package side.
00:45:15.670 --> 00:45:21.010
Well, that's excellent. excellent, and specifically the recognition of the unfairness.
00:45:21.090 --> 00:45:22.450
I mean, this is just unprecedented.
00:45:24.190 --> 00:45:25.050
It's exciting.
00:45:26.830 --> 00:45:34.130
It's really exciting. You know, 10 years, hard work, and lots of trials and
00:45:34.130 --> 00:45:37.670
failures, finding we got where we should be.
00:45:38.190 --> 00:45:42.510
Well, we're still on the road. We're still on the road. But we're on the right
00:45:42.510 --> 00:45:45.150
road in the right direction. Sound good?
00:45:45.790 --> 00:45:49.990
Okay. Very good. Thank you. Thank you so much, Solomon. Bye-bye.