TRANSKRIPTIO 🔗
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Paula, I want to get first to you. What is
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your reaction on what might happen next?
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So I've been speaking with sources who are close to
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some of these key Trump administration officials who are going
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to face this kind of response in Congress and oversight.
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So the source familiar with Hegseth's strategy last week, and
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they told me, look, They very much expect that he
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will be impeached in this Congress. They do not think, though.
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They are very confident that this will not move to
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a trial. Just logistically, politically, that doesn't seem viable. They
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also think there's a good chance he'll be impeached in
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the next Congress. They also don't think that will necessarily
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move to a trial. They don't know if Democrats will
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find that to be sort of politically viable. But they
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do expect this will be a long investigation. We dragged out.
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Their defense on behalf of their client, Secretary Hegseth, is
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that it is his job to present options to the
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commander in chief, to the president. The president makes a
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selection and then Hegseth is the one who carries out
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these orders. That is their defense to the allegations here.
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So they're, of course, taking this very seriously, but they
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don't seem terribly concerned by this. There also doesn't seem
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to be a concern in Hegseth's camp. that the president
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will use this impeachment as.
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A cover to fire him.
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That is not a concern. Once again, they believe logistically
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there's just not enough time to get someone else confirmed.
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And also, Katie, as you know, the list, the stack
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of resumes of any secretary that would be as Trumpy
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as Hegseth, that's a pretty thin pile. So they're feeling
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pretty confident, even though they do expect he'll be impeached
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at least once in the next few months.
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So interesting on that, Chris, because we were talking about corruption,
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voters speaking with one voice almost entirely on corruption, saying
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they're done with it. They also were pretty loud and
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clear that they were not happy with the war in Iran.
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And this is this would be another instance of this
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White House ignoring that. Jason or Stephen Miller is the
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new chief of staff. I found it very interesting that
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among the first people to congratulate him and the loudest
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people to congratulate him, it.
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Was Pete Hexeth.
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With multiple posts talking about patriots uniting, etc. It made
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me wonder whether he was trying to keep his job.
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Yeah, no surprise. Well, look, you know, Massey's complaining about
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having had no declaration of war from the White House.
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I would just say that Congress got its declaration of
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war with the appointment of Stephen Miller. That's what that was.
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It was a declaration of war, a shot across the
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bow of the Democratic Congress. And we're going to be
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in for a wild ride, I think, over the next
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two years. That will include the White House probably failing
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to honor subpoenas in these investigations. But if you'll permit me,
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I want to go back to that 60 Minutes clip
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where Trump was talking about corruption. And what it shows
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is that Donald Trump lives on a different planet. It's
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a planet where nobody cares about corruption, where you can
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prosecute your political enemies without evidence, just on a whim.
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where you can order lethal strikes on boats without presenting
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any evidence that they present any threat to the United States.
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And if you want to live on that planet, have
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I got the chief of staff for you. His name
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is Stephen Miller. He is obviously the architect of many
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of these draconian Trump policies. He's a guy who, spoiler alert,
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I had a long interview with, talk with in the
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White House last December when I did my piece on
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Susie Wiles. Stay tuned. It's about to drop in Vanity Fair,
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probably in the next 48 hours. And I can tell
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you that his
Load full transcript
philosophy of White House chief is nothing
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like the model of Jim Baker or Leon Panetta or
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an honest broker. He is all in on almost anything
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Trump wants to do.
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Interestingly, when this was the worst drubbing in the popular
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vote for the House since Watergate, it was bad. When
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past presidents have had a real drubbing in a midterm,
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thinking about, you know, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, they've moderated.
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They've moved back, tacked back toward the middle. This is
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not an indication that that's going to happen.
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I mean, Katie, you're the last person who would be
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surprised by this. Donald Trump is not a past president.
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Donald Trump is who he is. He is simply going
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to hunker down. This is going to be a wartime
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White House with a wartime consigliere in the form of
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Stephen Miller. He's already said publicly that the left wing
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of the Democratic Party is a cancer and that it's
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an extremist organization. Good luck to anybody who thinks that
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there's going to be some miraculous hand across the aisle
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or Trump trying to cut bipartisan deals, that's a fantasy.
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I think you're right to say that, Chris. I think
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you know pretty well. I think we all know pretty
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well at this point what Donald Trump is like and
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what he is not like. Let's bring in MSNOW congressional
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reporter Michael Schnell, MSNOW Pentagon reporter Priya Shree there, MSNOW
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senior national security reporter David Road as well. Priya, first
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to you. Any concern? Paula was just saying no concern
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at the White House. Any concern at the Pentagon?
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Well, you know, Katie, I think it's been really interesting
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to see how Secretary Hegseth has been reacting to all
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of these calls for impeachment. We know from Deputy Pentagon
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Press Secretary Joel Valdez that the chief Pentagon spokesperson, Sean Parnell,
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convened this meeting where they sort of discussed. strategy and
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decided that they were going to do this sort of
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social media blitz. And over the course of the last
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several days, we've seen all of these political appointees inside
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of the Pentagon post on X stand, fight and defend
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the republic with all of these pictures of Secretary Hegseth
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with the new chief of staff, Stephen Miller. But we're
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even starting to see these social media videos from the
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White House itself sort of backing up Secretary Hegseth's resume.
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And I think what's even more fascinating is that video
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that Secretary Hegseth put out himself where he referred to
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Massey as this defeated, disgruntled congressman who was aligning himself
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with the Democrats. And he doubled down on so many
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of the things that he's done over the past two
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years that have been incredibly unpopular. He talked about how
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he's bringing the faith of the founding fathers back into
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the formations and how he believes that the military is
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should actually be used to assist in mass deportations. So
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it seems like, at least publicly, there doesn't seem to
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be any concern, as Paula sort of outlined, that these
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impeachments could actually result in him being removed from office.
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But it seems like he's certainly trying to court people
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within the administration, like President Trump and Stephen Miller, who
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he thinks are powerful enough to potentially save him.
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I'm curious about what we can expect to happen in Congress, Michael. First,
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tell me, in the House, is this going to make
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it to a floor vote?
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So it will, Katie.
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And the reason why is because of the mechanism by
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which Thomas Massey is bringing this to the floor. Just
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so folks understand what's going on right now, you see
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him on the House floor. He is doing what's called
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making his resolution privileged.
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And that's because the only way that things can.
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Get a vote in the House of Representatives is if
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the speaker puts it on the floor, unless you go
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through the privileged route, which is essentially a special mechanism
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by which members of Congress can force legislation to the
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floor privately.
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For a vote.
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Thomas Massey is doing that right now. He has to
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read every single word on that resolution. It's 34 pages.
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He's likely to be there for a little bit longer.
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Once there is that.
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Move to make it privileged, leadership, GOP leadership, will have two.
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Legislative days to act on the legislation.
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They need to set a vote within that two-day time span. Now,
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they can either put the resolution on the floor and
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hold a vote and let the chips fall where they may,
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or they can motion to table it or motion to
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refer it to committee. All of those options would require
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a majority vote for success. And at this moment, it
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is still unclear what route Speaker Johnson will take.
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But he did speak to reporters.
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Just a few minutes ago here in the Capitol, in
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the hallway. He was asked if he plans to motion to.
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Table this resolution.
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I'm going to read to you what he said because
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he holds the cards in terms of what comes next.
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He said, quote, Impeaching a cabinet secretary right now, especially
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the Department of War in the middle of hostilities abroad,
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would be a terrible, terrible look, a terrible.
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Thing for our allies and enemies to see that.
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And we don't impeach cabinet secretaries for political gain or
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for cheap tricks.
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And I think that's what this is. And everyone knows
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what it is.
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So it sounds like Johnson is going to try and
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thwart this effort, probably doing a motion to table. Now,
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if Congress defeats that, if there are enough House members
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who vote against it, then we would see that vote
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on impeaching Hegseth. And I've been speaking to Republicans this
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week and last week, and they tell me they expect
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it to be successful.
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On one hand, it's a numbers game. Right now, Democrats hold.
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214 seats in the House. You just need a simple
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majority of 218 for impeachment resolution to be successful. There
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were already some Republicans who weren't feeling great about Pete Hegseth.
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And then you bring in the fact that there are
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more than a dozen folks here who are right now
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lame duck Republicans who lost their reelection, have.
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Nothing on the line, and may be more interested.
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In taking that step to impeach Pete Hegseth. And then
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there's the fact that I'm told that there aren't Republicans
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who are thrilled with the job he's been doing.
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They don't think he's handled the Iran war well. They
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don't think he's been leading the department well.
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There's even been some frustrations with how he's handled himself
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during committee hearings when he'd.
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Been up here on Capitol Hill.
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As one House Republican told me last week, there are
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just some Republicans up here who do not like Pete Hegseth.
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So we are going to see this vote happen one day.
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way or another once Thomas Massey is done reading those
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articles and once Speaker Johnson sets this vote, because, again,
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by the mechanism that Massey is doing this, the House
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has to vote on this matter.
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OK, so if it does get approved, what sort of
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impeachment are we looking at, Michael?
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Well, then this would go to the Senate.
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And now it's a question of how quickly would those
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articles of impeachment move to the Senate?
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So it goes to the Senate quickly. Let me ask
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you this. Are there enough votes to get a trial?
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And I brought up Tom Tillis, who said that nominating him,
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confirming him was one of the worst things he's ever
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done in his entire career. He regrets it. I imagine
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that he might move to vote yes on a Senate trial.
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Anyone else?
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I mean, you have somebody like Tom Phillips.
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You just mentioned you have somebody like John Cornyn, who
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feels burned by President Trump after the president endorsed Paxton
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over him in the primary, which then led to that
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Republican loss in the Senate election in Texas. You also
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have somebody like Bill Cassidy, who has been publicly.
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Clear that he's no fan of President Trump.
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You have Susan Collins, who is another lame duck senator.
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The four we just mentioned are lame duck senators, folks
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who are not going to be returning next year. And
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then you have other moderates who are in the chamber,
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like Alisa Murkowski, for example. So I think it is
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a real question here and a real possibility that we
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could see a trial take place once those articles of
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impeachment make their way from the House to the Senate.
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And I will note, probably not going to happen immediately,
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though it may. But we do have some precedent back
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in 2021 after January 6th when.
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The president passed. was impeached following that.
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There was some days in between before the articles were
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sent over.
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So there could be a trial. But then, of course,
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the big hurdle is that removal.
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And in order to remove somebody who has been impeached,
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you need a supermajority.
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You need two thirds, which is about 67 votes. It's
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a real question.
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It will be an uphill battle whether or not Republicans
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can make it that far.
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But certainly there is some consternation with Pete Hegseth.
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Hey, it's Rachel. I am so glad to see you
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at the end of that clip because this is where
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I get to tell you about a new way to
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watch all our clips and all of our shows and
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