TRANSKRIPTIO 🔗
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Welcome back to the Progress Report.
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Today's conversation is one that challenges assumptions, breaks down barriers, and quite honestly, might change the way you think about health, awareness, and advocacy.
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When most people hear the words breast cancer, they picture women.
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But the reality is it doesn't discriminate.
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And for men, that misunderstanding can be dangerous.
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Our guest today is Jake Messier, known to many as the guy with stage four breast cancer.
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He's a former Marine, a seasoned marketing executive, media personality, and now one of the most visible and impactful voices in the fight to raise awareness around male breast cancer.
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You know, I wonder, I wonder you words have a lot of power to them and they mean a lot to us.
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And obviously they've they've changed the wording with different things, especially in the mental health arena, you know, with PTSD and different things that were called different things in the past.
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Sure.
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And sometimes the label of something um will keep a person from trying to get that that thing detected or embracing the fact that they have that thing because they don't want to be under the stigma of X, Y, or Z.
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Wouldn't it be possibly a simple fix?
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Because I think for most people, where they hear the word breast, they think female.
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What if what if they were to come up with just a different name for it and and kind of almost as part of their their push where and listen, Jake, I'm with you.
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If if somebody told me I had that, I don't care what they call it, I'm getting it, I'm going to get it fixed and I want to get rid of it.
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I I can I can I'm secure enough in my masculinity that I don't care.
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But I do know that's a real thing for men.
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And there are, I will tell you that there are guys, like there's there's a handful of celebrities that, you know, none of them are sort of true A-listers.
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There's a handful of celebrities that have gotten male breast cancer, right?
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Um, Richard Roundtree, who played Shaft back in the 70s.
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Um, Peter Chris, the drummer from Kiss.
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Um and then, you know, probably the biggest one, and getting exactly to your point, is Beyonce's dad.
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Okay, so he he could use his status as Beyonce's dad.
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I don't know what Beyonce's dad name is, right?
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But he's Beyonce's dad, and you can use that to get out there and talk about this.
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He refuses to call it breast cancer, he calls it chest cancer.
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And I'm like, that's not a that's not a thing, man.
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Like, you're literally making this worse because you're not even acknowledging the part of the body that we have a cancer in, right?
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And so um there's a there's a lot of men that refuse to even acknowledge that they have breast tissue, right?
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And that's I you know, I get it, every guy is on their own journey.
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I mean, I I understand that.
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And when you get thrust into this, it just makes everything really wonky.
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But yeah, I will tell you that when when men uh can accept and go through the middle of the hard things, and and I'm gonna say there's probably nothing harder than getting breast cancer as a guy.
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When you can accept that and go through the middle of it, like that's when things start to change.
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Yeah.
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When people are ashamed to even call their their breasts breasts, right?
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When people are like nothing, like you're only actually making it worse because you're adding to the stigma and adding to the isolation and adding to the embarrassment.
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They're like, well, if Beyonce's dad, who has all the money in the world, can't even come out and say that I have breast tissue, right?
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Like, yeah, what the what am I supposed to do living in Ohio?
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Like, you know, what am I supposed to do?
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And so, I mean, it it it it is a problem that that there is a subset of guys that refuses to even call it what it is, right?
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Yes, it may be embarrassing, but it's a it's what it is, and it and making it and I agree, I I agree with you that it is what it is, and I agree that really there should be education that that men do have breast tissue.
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I bet you a lot of men don't even realize that that it's called breast tissue.
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But I just wonder if in the meantime, and I and I get what you're saying, that you know, you don't want to you know uh perpetuate the the stigma, but I would hate for lives to be lost because of this, you know, the the fear of the stigma and maybe just a change in the name of it, even if you called it upper upper torso, uh, you know, uh but that's not what it is.
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I mean, upper torso could be saying it could be a lot of things.
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I mean, I know what you're saying.
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Yeah, just something so men become men become more than that.
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But if somebody gets anal cancer, I mean, should we start calling it something else because anal is an uncomfortable word?
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Like, like should we start changing things just because somebody finds it uncomfortable, even though it's literally the name of the organ or the name of the thing?
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You know, I I in my opinion, you know, uh yes, if it, you know, I I see your point where if it saves lives, then then then sure.
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That's all I'm thinking, is but at the same time, just you know, it it not calling it actually what it is is is perpetuating the stigma, right?
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And that's yeah, you know, it's making it worse on the other side.
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For the guys that are like, look, I I I say all the time, I'm like, have you ever heard of appendix cancer?
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Either one of you guys, have you heard of appendix cancer?
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I never have, right?
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I never heard of appendix cancer.
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The same number of guys that get breast cancer are the number of people that are gonna get appendix cancer every year, right?
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I've never heard of appendix cancer, I've never been a part of a of a of an appendix cancer walk.
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I've never been a part of an, you know, I've never seen a uh uh whatever the appendix cancer ribbon is, I've never seen that, right?
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So to be, I I feel incredibly blessed and lucky to be part of the pink bubble, even though it can be frustrating at times, right?
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Because at least I'm recognized, at least I'm part of a community, at least I have something to point at and say, yeah, I mean, that's me.
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And and while maybe, you know, 20% of that community doesn't want me in it, a large amount of people do.
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And so I have a place to be, and I have a place to hang my hat and say, Yeah, I mean, would I like the pink ribbon to have a little blue tail at the end?
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Sure.
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But you know, you know, does that diminish the mentality?
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I don't think I think with the younger generation, again, I see it in baseball a lot.
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I I see kids show up now with gloves that are hot pink.
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They'll or they'll wear and kids wear pink.
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And and you know, Jess, you can vouch for this, and Jake, you as well.
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As a kid, when I was a kid, I'm sure when you were a kid, Jake, most boys you wouldn't see ever wear pink at all.
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So I think that that in this regard, it's it's kind of a positive that they're being com they're being comfortable that it's
it's just a color.
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It's another color.
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It's just a color, it's not a it's not a gender identification, it's not anything else, it's just a color that I like.
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It's just a color.
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But I think that connected with that, there should be some education, you know, because I think I think to hit my age group and your age group of men, it's gonna be tough for a lot of these, a lot of guys to wrap their mind around.
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Again, for me, I don't care what color, what if they tell me I got cancer, okay, that's what I got, let's go fix it.
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I don't care what it's called.
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But I I really think that there should be some education on the fact that, hey, you know, uh breast cancer is for men and for women.
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Men have breast tissue, you know, and it it's uh it's something that as people understand that more and more, and it's not a gender-related thing, they'll start to realize that that term breast will have a a lesser connection to just female.
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It'll be where I think that where this will, I think where this starts.
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Unfortunately, you get it's gonna take 50 years literally to get through an entire generational cycle.
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But where this starts is literally sixth grade health class, right?
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In sixth grade health class, girls are taught, you find a lump, you go tell somebody.
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That's literally taught in health class, right?
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And boys are never taught that, right?
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And and so if you go back and start literally at the current whatever health class, you know, whatever health is taught nowadays, and you start putting that in the curriculum, then yeah, 50 years from now, the entire generation will have been taught that just in the same way, you know, before the 1960s, girls and women were never taught that, you know, to you find a lump, you go tell somebody, right?
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So this takes a long time, but you're right.
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I think the the the education, the health education system, I think, you know, making I've had lots of friends that have because of what I'm going through, they get a little bit freaked out.
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So, you know, they go into their primary care, you know, visit once a year.
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I had a guy go in just about two months ago to to go get and he asked for a a breast exam so that he knew how to do it himself.
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Yeah, he goes, I don't he goes, I can see the YouTube, but can you just show me here?
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And the doctor actually refused to do it.
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And he said, and he
said, Male breast cancer is not a thing, or it's at least rare enough that you don't have to worry about it.
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And my friend said, Well, that's fine, but my my buddy has stage four breast cancer, and he goes, Well, he's an outlier.
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And he he then refused to show him again.
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He literally gave him a women's breast health exam pamphlet and said, just go home and do this.
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But they like that's the pervasiveness in healthcare.
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Like it's it's not just it's not just it's only rare if you don't have it.
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I mean, if you're you're if you're the one in the 700, you I don't care what the rarity of it is because I have it.
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You know what I mean?
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I have it, yeah.
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Right.
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And I think uh no, I think you're right.
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I think that that the education has to get out there, and I think that people have to, you know, start, like I said, if if they could come up with a different name, and I I totally get your point too, because I really do think I think that people put way too much importance in labels and colors and and what this you know means or that means, right?
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Um especially when it comes to your health.
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Um, but at the same time, I know it's probably it's probably keeping people from getting tested, and that kind of leads me to my next thing.
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Now, you kind of have a a funny story as to how you basically detected yours.
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Now, when your friend did that to you, was it a sharp pain just in the one the one side of your chest?
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Was it across your chest, or what was that?
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Yeah, I mean, it is a I mean when you have when you have a um when you have something going on there, like it was all connected.
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So my lump was actually connected to my to my there was a the tumor was literally behind my nipple, which is why it dropped me to the ground, right?
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But there are you know it it you know when they when you talk about the the the visual signs of breast cancer, it's when you look up female or male, it's the same thing, right?
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It's sort of a dimpling of the nipple, or you know, certain things, it it's just human anatomy will do the exact same thing.
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So there's all kinds of you know, simple checks that you know, there's a million resources online to go and find that would would sort of show you, but at the end of the day, you know, I I you know I've done some funny TikToks and stuff like that with you know, talking to women, because again, women are most of my audience, but
I'm like, hey, you know, I would be willing to bet that during happy time you're touching your man's chest a lot more than he is.
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And so if you find a lump, you need to tell him like those kinds of things, right?
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This is a you know, everybody that's involved with the men's health, because uh uh I try to go back and I try to remember, did I know that guys could get breast cancer before March of or September of 2003, 23?
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I I don't know.
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I don't I don't I mean it's obviously you know not just my diagnosis now, but I've chosen to make it my entire life, right?
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I spent so now I obviously do, but I try to go back and remember like, did I know that guys could have breast cancer in in you know July of 23?
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I don't think I did.
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And so I think you're right, education is key because if a guy in sixth grade hears that men can get breast cancer, when that guy is 50, somebody will have told him once, and that synapse will fire, and he may not wait six months, right?
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And maybe in 50 years, when we get all this through the healthcare education system, there'll be a almost an immediate thing, like just like women.
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Oh, I found a lump.
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I'm literally gonna talk to somebody because that's a scary thing.
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Right now, it's not as scare as scary as it needs to be for most children.
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And Jake, you know, I gotta say, I I really appreciate what you're doing as a male.
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I think that this is great that in a mission that you've turned something that's obviously very negative.
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I mean, it's it's you know, I don't think anybody would ever look at cancer as a positive, but what you're doing to make people aware of it and and make men specifically aware that that hey, we're uh susceptible to this as well.
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I think it's it's incredible.
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Um to our listeners out there.
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I mean, there there may be a lot of listeners right now that that are learning this for the first time.
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Um, men and women, what is there any um advice you'd give in terms of self-testing or you know, a that that I know for uh for prostate for men, but they say at age 40 you should be getting checked every single year.
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And obviously that's a very uncomfortable test.
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You know, uh I think that this this test maybe is a little less invasive and and so but yeah, it's not great.
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Well, but how how would you you know what would you recommend to men and women out there in terms of age, in terms of self-test, in terms of checking?
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What how would you go about doing that?
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I would say this.
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And this may be going against a lot of what the regular breast cancer orgs are doing, but I'm also a realist in what guys are actually gonna do, right?
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Because I consider myself a guy, right?
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You can tell people that, you know, feel it on the first, because the first of the month is supposed to be breast self-exam month.
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I've had breast cancer for two and a half years, and I think I felt it on the first maybe three times, right?
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My other breast that still has, you know, tissue there, right?
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You know, I'm not gonna remember to do breast self-exams all the time, right?
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It's just not gonna be in my wheelhouse.
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And I have breast cancer.
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I think the biggest thing for people to understand is that guys can get it.
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And that's sort of my entire mission.
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I'm not going down the rabbit hole of early detection or all of these other things, because those things are important, right?
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I get it.
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But we are, and I say we as in men, we are dealing with, we are at the very beginning of this advocacy.
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We are 70 years behind women.
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We are at the point where we are going, hey guys can get breast cancer.
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And people are like, wait, what?
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Like that that's a thing.
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And so to keep on pounding that train and to keep on making sure that you know the there there's some research dollars going towards male breast cancer or or anything like that.
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I think the biggest thing that if you ask me what people can do, I'm gonna tell you right now, guys are not gonna start doing self-breast exams in the first because testicular cancer is a fur is a real thing, right?
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Do do guys check check that, you know, in the ways that they're supposed to be doing every month?
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No, they just don't.
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And I and I know that.
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So breast cancer is gonna even be either further on the backburn.
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It is a place that we just need people to either A acknowledge that male breast cancer is a thing and stop fighting against the fact that it that it's not, right?
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You know, because they're in their opinion that we shouldn't be recognized.
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That's where I think we're at.
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It is just a general, broad-based campaign that, hey, you know, that's what I do on my social.
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Hey, guys can get breast cancer, and then I sort of back away.
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Nobody's going on TikTok to get bummed out by the guy with stage four breast cancer.
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Nobody wants these deep dives into all these things.
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I'm just gonna tell you something with humor or with you know, with something like that, and be like, okay, yeah, and guys can get breast cancer, and then I'm gonna back off because that's literally all the message that most of the American public are willing to take on the subject right now.
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So that's it.
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It is literally telling that story and people going, okay, and storing that in their in their head so that 30 years from now, some synapse will fire where they don't wait those six months, because that's the that's the actual part.
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That would I be stage four now if I had gone earlier and I had not delayed treatment and all the things?
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There's a significant amount of evidence that points to the fact that I would not be stage four.
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So even if you are using this as a lesson, find a lump and go talk to somebody because yeah, it can progress really quickly.
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So is that the only symptom that you would uh just again?
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Because I'm kind of ignorant to some of this, you know.
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So if if somebody were to find a lump, that's kind of an obvious symptom that this is something different.
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Um, what about is uh is there sensitivity to the nipple?
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Is there is there pain?
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Yeah, I mean there's a little bit of pain, there's sensitivity.
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Yeah, those things, I mean you're gonna know you notice those those things.
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That's the time to find it for a little while.
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Every time like a like a bed sheet would graze across it, I was like, ah, like like it's not normal, right?
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And so you're gonna know.
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It's gonna be something, it's not gonna be something that you're like, well, you're gonna know.
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I mean, it's just gonna, you know, it you'll know.
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And and and even if you think it's that, then you know, go get it checked out.
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I tell people, look, it's never gonna hurt to go get it checked out.
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Until next time, keep looking forward because progress is always just ahead.