TRANSKRIPTIO 🔗
Andréa Jones: I'm a huge fan of reading romance novels. And while they're my comfort entertainment of choice at the end of the day, there's a lot we can learn from reading these romance novels. We talk about the characters and development and how do we keep people not just buying into the book, but also becoming super fans. And that's why I'm really excited today to have Daire Paddy on the show today. We'd had little pockets of this conversation before in Instagram messages, but I think you're gonna learn a lot from this episode about how to use romance as a guide for your marketing. And with that, Daire, welcome to the show.
Daire // @dairepaddy: Hello, thank you for having me.
Andréa Jones: I'm personally excited about this just because I like geeking out about romance novels. But before we dive in, can you give us like the 30-second version of who you are and what you're all about?
Daire // @dairepaddy: the pressure of being on a timer. So my name is Daire. I'm an online business coach and my specialty is helping very creatively minded, ambitious kind of people stack their income without simultaneously stacking their to-do list. So my big thing is life is too short to spend chained to your desk. Like you should be out there reading your romance novels, right? So. I really work with people to help them figure out what strategies play to their strengths so they can run with that instead of just doing that like basic online bitch thing of doing like a copy paste of the most recent mentors approach to business. So that's me in a 30 second nutshell.
Andréa Jones: Yes, and that's why I wanted to have you on because our values are so aligned when it comes to business. It's like how can we run this in a way that still allows us to live a full life? And I love that. so romance novels. Can do you remember the first one that you ever read and why you love this genre?
Daire // @dairepaddy: Okay, that is a great question. I used to read a lot of like, more of your chick litty kind of romance. So it was more like woman finds herself and happens to find love at the same time, which I'm not really counting here. Like the first romance romance that I can remember getting my teeth stuck into was called Kiss Me Annabelle. by Eloisa James. So was a Regency romance as well. So classic. And I remember being so captivated that I lived with my cousin at the time and we had this the whole series of books. So it's one of those like interconnected series where we're following all of the sisters in the family. And it was like a convey about like I would read that I'd pass it on to her. She'd pass it on to my auntie. Like it was a whole thing.
Andréa Jones: Yeah.
Daire // @dairepaddy: And I think that that is what I loved about romance initially, because it was something that not only captured you, but it was like, my God, I need to talk about this. And
Andréa Jones: Yeah.
Daire // @dairepaddy: it was like this real like source of connection, I suppose.
Andréa Jones: Yeah. I I think that's it. It's like, not just reading in a silo, but reading with community, which is I think is what we're ultimately trying to do. so you know, talked about kind of your early days regen regency romance. I'm totally there with you. I remember going through a bunch of Christmas Regency romance, like collections, and I was just obsessed with it at the time. so fast forward to now, like. What sparked the romance to marketing connection for you? When did you start noticing that you're like, hey, reading romance can actually make us better marketers?
Daire // @dairepaddy: Well, I think for me, it has always been really obvious that the more you read, the better you are at creating. And that goes across any genre. I, English lit student over here, like I read
Andréa Jones: Me too.
Daire // @dairepaddy: a like a real variety of books and always have, like I'm not exclusively a romance reader. And I just think there are so many things that you get as a reader, as a book one, like you learn empathy. on such a deeper level, because I think it can be really hard for people to put themselves in other people's minds, in other people's circumstances. Whereas when you are reading, you are quite literally placed there. You live their life, you're breathing their life, you're consuming their life. And so I think it just teaches you the skill of building an emotional rapport with somebody that you're not actually interacting with. So that's one thing. I think also just your vocabulary, like, 10 X's when you are a reader. Because you're not necessarily just using the language that you hear around you. It's not just what your family says or your community says. It's you are learning like interesting new words or terms of phrase that maybe you'd never come across before. And I just think that that is so fun. And it makes you interesting. It makes you different.
Andréa Jones: Yeah, I love that. And I love that we get to experience basically different, a wide variety of people and how they think and how they live their lives. And one of the things that I love about romance is that there always is a happy ending. So as a reader, we go into it knowing this, but we don't know kind of like the twists and turns along the way. So how do you think as marketers we can then apply that? to our business, the the kind of duality of like we wanna follow the kind of tropes and patterns of romance, but still have some elements that are unexpected.
Daire // @dairepaddy: So I think you just said it there perfectly. we want the happy ending. We want that satisfaction. We want that payoff. So do our clients.
Andréa Jones: Mm.
Daire // @dairepaddy: They're not out there thinking, do you know what? I want someone who's really going to challenge me and make me uncomfortable and give me growth that feels like torture. No, they're thinking, I want to be happy. I want to
Andréa Jones: Yeah.
Daire // @dairepaddy: enjoy this thing. I want to be better at that thing.
Andréa
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Jones: Yeah. Yeah. It's really like what I like about romance as well is that even if we go through the ringer, like we know that there's a happy ending. So I feel like sometimes in marketing people kind of lean into like the negative aspects of it, which we do want to mention, right? So like what problems are you having, right? We could talk about those all day long, but also layering in like here's what the solution is gonna be. at the end of the rainbow, so to speak. And so that's what I love about romance. but then also the tension. do you have an example of what this like balance could look like in a healthy way in in marketing and in business?
Daire // @dairepaddy: Yeah, so first of all, I just need to say the tension. The tension is where it's at. Nobody wants to read a romance where it's like person one meets person two. They like each other and they bang. Like that's a really boring book. Truly, like we want some growth. We want some development. And I think that that is what we see in the best kind of romance books. We see people really... learning about themselves and opening up and being willing to change their mind and just grow on all of these different levels individually and together. And really that is what we want to mirror in our marketing.
Andréa Jones: Yes. Yes. I love that. It's like we're growing at the same time, but in in various ways. But what about like when the growth is slow? And I'm gonna relate this to like our slow burns. I love a good slow burn. Like for me, I want enemies to lovers, like they hate each other and then slowly over time they fall in love. But I think sometimes, especially with marketing, we kind of get I don't I don't know if bored is the right word, but we get over it. We want to just rush to the ending. as a business owner, we're just wanting I just want everyone to be successful. So how do we approach our content creation knowing that, you know, it may be a slow burn, it may take some time.
Daire // @dairepaddy: So I think you have to really consider the longevity of your business. Like what you're not doing is being in business for the month. You're not thinking like, do know what would be fun this month? I'm going to have a business. No, you are doing this for the long haul. You're wanting to create something that stands the test of time. You are creating something that... has longevity behind it, right? And with that in mind, quick win strategies are not going to be the way forward. Like there will be things that inevitably give you what you want right away. There will be things that absolutely can surprise and delight you in the moment. And there were other tactics that simply take longer because so much of marketing is building a relationship.
Andréa Jones: Hmm. Yeah.
Daire // @dairepaddy: and what relationship that is worth its weight just happens like that.
Andréa Jones: Yeah. Do you have an example of what this looks like maybe from your own business?
Daire // @dairepaddy: Yeah, so I, like many of us have had a mailing list for many, many years and I have been fairly consistent with that mailing list, like sending them banging emails a few times a week. There have been people on my mailing list since like 2020 who have opened every single email, never interacted with me in any way, but then suddenly like bought six months of one-on-one coaching. paid in full out of nowhere. And it's a bit of a running joke that I talk about sales out of nowhere because that is the norm. Like I have these random people that have actually been there for a long time, been receiving my marketing, have been obviously enjoying it and engaging with it in a very quiet, lurky way. But ultimately it has paid off. And then once they're in, once they become a client, they just never leave.
Andréa Jones: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Cause they they
Daire // @dairepaddy: we get that happily ever after together.
Andréa Jones: Yeah. And that's what I love. It's like sometimes your best clients are the quietest. Like it's a quiet love within the romance novel. It's not always like big and flashy and like the most, you know, the most, I don't know, epic story ever. Sometimes and a lot of times it is the quiet strategies that really work the best. you mentioned that satisfying payoff at the end. You got the client. how do we make sure that we're working towards that in our marketing? Like, what are some of the things that you tell your clients about that process of, you know, what does it look like to build those relationships with your clients so that they do trust you to pay you at the end of the day?
Daire // @dairepaddy: So the biggest tip, if I was just going to give you one thing, and the one thing that I probably say the most repetitively to my own clients is your marketing has to be a preview of what it's actually like to work with you. People have to see how you communicate, how you think, what you value, your sense of humor, like all of these little bits that make you you and make your work so unique. That's something that gets to be unveiled through your marketing. And if we're using the romance comparison here, like we've all like seen those naughties romcoms or we've read the romance novels where a guy will... pretend to be someone else or they'll put on an act or they'll lie through text messages in order to seduce the girl. And I always have to wonder, then when they finally get together, is is it actually gonna work out? we only get to see them kissing at the end. We don't get to see the months after or the years after. Like did they actually stay together? In most cases, probably not
Andréa Jones: Yeah.
Daire // @dairepaddy: as much as we might want it to be so. And that's because she never got to see the real him as she was falling in love. It was a fabrication.
Andréa Jones: Hmm. Yes. I love this so much because I do think so. I love to compare marketing to dating a lot. So I think it really relates to this conversation of romance because you're essentially
wooing your clients, right? Some clients, their wooing period is shorter, some are longer. But the more genuine you can be in that process, the more likely that you're gonna get a client for life. versus basically cheating your way to a sale, right? nobody likes cheaters right? And so I feel like there's a lot of learning that we can take from that is like that wooing process and like being genuine. What do you say to the people who are maybe a little nervous about putting themselves out there in a genuine way or maybe a little shy or introverted? How do you approach those individuals?
Daire // @dairepaddy: So first of all, I'm a huge introvert. And you probably are. mean, we're bookworms, of course we are.
Andréa Jones: Yeah.
Daire // @dairepaddy: The way that it worked for me, because I'll be honest, the early days of my business, I would not even put a selfie on Instagram, let alone a video. I was that level of shy and uncomfortable. But I just had to ask myself, like, what am I more attached to? Like staying comfortable and staying relaxed or this vision that I have for one, creating these clients
Andréa Jones: Mm.
Daire // @dairepaddy: that I could be helping. And even though it felt disgusting.
Andréa Jones: Mm-hmm.
Daire // @dairepaddy: to dial up my visibility. I had that driving force behind me.
Andréa Jones: Mm-hmm.
Daire // @dairepaddy: And so what I did and what I tend to do is I just throw caution to the wind and commit to some insane content challenge just to get me over myself. So this typically looks like, you know, a month of Instagram stories, a month of live streams, a month of something where I'm committing every single day just to build the habit. And that's not me saying I'm going to do that forever. It's literally just to build that muscle and really get me over that deep, deep discomfort that could potentially be keeping me small or holding me back.
Andréa Jones: Hmm, yes. I love these kind of like focus sprints as well because we learn so much about ourselves. and we learn about our community. Like I did this past April a post everyday kind of challenge for myself and realized that it like posting every day doesn't really change my data at all, but it helped me see what kind of content I like creating much more quickly, especially in this new season of my life, right? So I love these little challenges that we kind of put ourselves through and see the results at the end because, you know, ultimately it's again just like dating. You can sit in your house and hope someone like I guess you can fall in love with like the mailman, that's about it. Or you can put yourself out there and like go on dates and like, you know, go get after that happily ever after. one thing I wanna like kind of talk about as well is, you know, we've talked a lot about how romance and marketing. And we can learn a lot from it. What can we leave in the books? Like, what are the things about romance where you're like, we probably shouldn't copy this in
our marketing?
Daire // @dairepaddy: the miscommunication trope.
Andréa Jones: Yeah, yes.
Daire // @dairepaddy: Just say what you mean. I think that's a huge one.
Andréa Jones: Yeah, I love that because it's always just and and by the way, I'm always like, just text her, right? But your main character guy is like, I wonder if she, or what if she, and I'm like, just text. Or they're like, I'm just gonna like stop by this coffee shop and hope she's there. I'm like, a phone call could have fixed that, you know? So I do think that sometimes in our marketing, like we make it so challenging. I remember one time I was working with this client and She's posting and posting on Instagram and she's like, I'm not growing, but I'm creating all this content. And we were working on the audit together. Come to find out, she's posting, but she's not really engaging with her people. So she's expecting them to just find her and engage with her. And I think that's part of that miscommunication trope, is like you can stand on the corner and be like, you know, I'm over here, I'm over here, and scream at everybody. Or you could just like go up to one person and introduce yourself. And I think that. feel scary for a lot of us, but oftentimes it's the most effective way to muddle our way through.
Daire // @dairepaddy: Yeah, okay, I have another thing that I think should be left in the romances and this might
Andréa Jones: Yes. Okay.
Daire // @dairepaddy: be a controversial one, but I think a lot of the gratuitous smart
Andréa Jones: Mm.
Daire // @dairepaddy: as a metaphor for just doing what you think is going to be popular, making decisions based on what you think the market wants or what you see your peers doing rather than what just feels inspired to you.
Andréa Jones: Yeah. I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that one, but I see what you mean. I feel like that's
Daire // @dairepaddy: I
Andréa Jones: a good one where you can like know your people, right? Like some people like the smut, some people don't. Who are you writing for?
Daire // @dairepaddy: So just to be clear, I am not anti-smart, but I want it to feel earned.
Andréa Jones: Yes.
Daire // @dairepaddy: I want that tension, I want that slow burn, I want that build before we get there. What I don't want is chapter five and we're already at it, you know? Because then at that point, like what we building towards? There's like, there's nothing there. And I have read a few books recently that have just felt like there were so many sex scenes that were honestly just repetitive that
Andréa Jones: Mm.
Daire // @dairepaddy: couldn't enjoy them. And I do think
Andréa Jones: Yeah, and so
Daire // @dairepaddy: it's a symptom of people going wild for smart. And so people are just jamming it in the books where it doesn't necessarily belong. And I think with anything we edit.
Andréa Jones: Yeah. Yeah. I see this a lot too with kind of like I don't know no I don't know how to describe this, but the trends within the like romance space kind of spiral into almost like becoming not a trend anymore and becoming part of the community. So I'll give an example. In social media, you know, there's a trend and like at some point it's like if you keep doing it, it's like, all right, we're we're way past that now, right? Whereas I think in books it's the same way. This is how I feel about romantasy because I was reading romantasy before it was called romantasy, right? And so it feels like now it's such a trend that if you release a book and it's not romantasy, people are like, well, I'm not even gonna read it. Same thing with dark romance. Sometimes they just make it graphic, but it's not necessarily dark. Right? That I if I'm writing a dark romance, I want an evil villain. I don't want a good guy who just happens to be killing people. give me evil, really, if we're going dark with it, right? And so I definitely see that with the smut as well. It's like some people are writing it just to be like, check off the box. I have, you know, six sex scenes in here. But there is an art to it. And I think there's a a lot of art when it comes to marketing. Yes, there's a science and a formula, and you can follow the formula, but If you don't have that je ne sais quoi level of yeah, of you-ness or even like your business ethos in there, it can start looking just like the same as everybody else.
Daire // @dairepaddy: Yeah, I think something having voice and something having personality is huge.
Andréa Jones: Yeah. Okay, so as we wrap up this episode, what's one thing that you think marketers should borrow next week? How can they apply this in their business?
Daire // @dairepaddy: So I think when it comes to romance books specifically, they exist to make us feel something. You can go through a whole roller coaster of human emotions in one single romance novel. And that is gold in your marketing. If you can make people feel something, if you can make people feel activated, if you can make them feel seen, if you can make them feel excited. if you can make them feel motivated, if you can make them feel attacked sometimes, that can be really powerful. If you make them feel the possibility, the world is literally your oyster. So like really working on how to create emotion is something that you can rip straight off the pages of a romance novel.
Andréa Jones: Yes, I love that. Do you have a favorite romance novel?
Daire // @dairepaddy: my goodness. I feel like this is how people would feel being asked if they have a favourite child.
Andréa Jones: Okay, well you can list a few, maybe even authors that you like. I'm just curious.
Daire // @dairepaddy: Okay, so I'm currently reading Into the Blue by Emma Brodie. And I find it personally offensive that I have to work today because I just wanted to lie in my bed and keep reading. It's honestly so good.
Andréa Jones: Yeah.
Daire // @dairepaddy: So that's shaping up to be five-star banger for sure. I've been really into Abby Jimenez this year. I feel like I've conquered like 95 % of her backlist in a single year. And what I love about her books is that you get humour but you also get depth so you don't just have these cookie cutter characters they all have backstory they all have individual growth and not just the main characters either the little cast of chaotic friends they always have some substance to them and i really really love that but i think if i was gonna pick like number one god-tier romance best of all time it has to be Seven Days in June by Tia Williams
Andréa Jones: Okay. Yeah. Right.
Daire // @dairepaddy: And even just like the opening scene, just, it's not a spoiler. It's literally the first page, but she is, you know, having some fun time by herself and she starts panicking that, like, what if she choked while she was masturbating? Like she would be found with her toy and she has this whole like little mini existential crisis. And it just like sets the tone. Like it's funny. It's heart wrenching. You will laugh. you will cry, you will feel it all. It's just a banger. It's perfect, truly.
Andréa Jones: I feel like we should put those recs in the show notes so y'all can take a listen and l read a book and dive into all of these romance novels and of course learn from them as well. Thank you so much for being on the show. Can you tell us about your podcast and where people can find you?
Daire // @dairepaddy: Yes. So you can find me on Instagram at dairepaddy. am always in my stories, always doing fun, imaginative things in my feed. So I'm sure we'll be fast friends if you hop on over there. And then yes, I do have a podcast also it's called Stacked and Steady. And like I said at the start, it's very much about stacking your income without stacking your to-do list. So the vibe is let's make a whole load of money while also, you know, chilling and enjoying your life.
Andréa Jones: I love it. And I'll put all those links in the show notes. Thanks again for being on this show.
Daire // @dairepaddy: Thank you for having me, it's been fun.
Andréa Jones: Yes, and thank you, dear listener, for tuning in to another episode of the Mindful Marketing Podcast. Make sure you give us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It helps keep us in the top one hundred marketing shows. And that's all because of your support. I'll be back at you soon with another episode. Bye for now.