Jakson EP. 150 Claude Carmichael: The Music Stories You’ve Never Heard & His New Album Tennessee Hill täydellinen litterointi

--> 00:05:06.480 So um it was incredible. 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:10.720 I mean, I loved it, and my kids, my son used to love to rank everything. 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:13.040 He he always had wanted a well, what's your favorite this? 00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:13.920 What's your he says? 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:15.680 What's your favorite top top three bands? 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:17.120 He said, And the Beatles don't count. 00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:23.199 He was always the Beatles don't count because that was like assumed to be the the number one. 00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:26.480 So, anyway, yeah, it's great raising kids in good music. 00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:28.560 It absolutely, 100%. 00:05:29.839 --> 00:05:40.000 So let's um, you know, you've had a you've had an incredible life in music, and I I want to get to know the guy behind all of that. 00:05:40.240 --> 00:05:43.839 Um and then I want to get into the songs as well. 00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:44.800 Okay. 00:05:45.199 --> 00:05:54.399 So um when well, were you were you one of those kids that um always had music playing in the house? 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:55.199 Yes. 00:05:55.360 --> 00:05:58.319 Um, it's funny because I I'm I'm one of five kids. 00:05:58.399 --> 00:05:59.839 I'm the youngest of five kids. 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:07.839 And my mother uh played piano and organ in the church and um in Baptist Church near where we lived. 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:09.839 And uh so she was she was good. 00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:16.560 All four of my siblings, two sisters, two brothers, took piano lessons or guitar lessons or both. 00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:17.839 Love it, love it. 00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:20.560 None of them, none of them play. 00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:31.600 And I I came along and I had the piano here, and I had an organ here, and I had a guitar here, and and I taught myself first, and then I started. 00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:40.959 Um, only later did I start taking lessons and studying music, but I was I ended up being the only one who was forced, who was not forced to take lessons, and I was the only one who ended up playing. 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:43.600 So who ended up doing it professionally? 00:06:47.120 --> 00:06:51.519 Um was there um I don't know, can you think back? 00:06:51.680 --> 00:07:04.399 Was there was there a moment uh whether it was uh a record or a song or something along those lines where you heard and you just like, yep, that's what I want to do. 00:07:04.639 --> 00:07:06.639 Oh, well, I I tell you, yeah, absolutely. 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:12.240 The the first songs I heard that really got to me, well, I was really small. 00:07:12.319 --> 00:07:14.319 I mean, I might have been three or four. 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:22.079 Um, but the first song that really got to me was um Fats Domino, uh Ain't It a Shame. 00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:28.480 And um You broke boom boom my heart boom, and I was like, damn, what is that? 00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:31.040 Hey, you don't have to stop, you could keep singing. 00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:36.079 I do play that, but not as well as he does. 00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:39.759 And the other one was Sam Cook, You Send Me. 00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:44.800 And I had heard them both about the same time, and they did send me. 00:07:44.959 --> 00:07:46.240 It was like, what? 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:48.639 Where did I go when that happened? 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:53.120 So they were the first ones that that actually got into my soul. 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:58.879 And then later, um, you know, I I didn't consider doing that, you know. 00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:01.920 Uh, it was sort of a progression when I got to be a little older. 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:07.759 Um, there would be a song like um uh I was in a I would play in little bands, you know. 00:08:07.839 --> 00:08:10.800 First I started playing drums, and I then I was playing keyboard in bands. 00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:17.120 And uh we did When a Man Loves a Woman, you know, and I would sing it in my little 12, 13-year-old voice. 00:08:17.439 --> 00:08:27.040 But uh one time I was singing on this on this stage, and this trumpet uh this friend of ours was in the school band and he had a uh cornet, and we didn't have a brass section at that point, you know. 00:08:27.199 --> 00:08:33.519 And we were singing at the end of that, When a Man Loves a Walmart, you know, and and at the last point that brass part comes in. 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:42.879 And he came in with that coronet, which sounded like just like a trumpet to me, on that um, you know, on that last tag, and I just felt like I went to heaven. 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:43.919 I mean, it was like an angel. 00:08:45.519 --> 00:08:48.960 So uh it was moments like that that just sort of got strung together. 00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:50.399 And I thought, damn, this is nice. 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:52.799 I want to keep going this direction, you know. 00:08:53.039 --> 00:09:04.320 And when you start looking back in the roots of rock and roll or just music, period, those those three songs that you just named, man, those are just classic songs. 00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:06.720 I mean, fantastic. 00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:07.679 Oh man. 00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:15.840 So when you um when you started out in bands and playing in in clubs, what kind of music were you playing? 00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:25.360 Well, it changed a lot because when I was in junior high, uh, I had a band, which oddly enough, I still go back to Virginia and we play together. 00:09:25.519 --> 00:09:32.879 We didn't play together, we didn't play together for like 30, 40 years, and we by chance met uh up again. 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:33.919 Part of us met up again. 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:34.559 We got together. 00:09:34.639 --> 00:09:38.320 We've done a concert every summer for the last several couple of summers. 00:09:38.480 --> 00:09:40.399 But I was 12 or 13. 00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:52.879 Um, I was playing with a guy uh who was uh my neighbor, and we just we put

together little rock bands, and we we didn't do much Beatles stuff because the Beatles stuff was sort of uh beyond us with the harmonies and everything. 00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:54.000 It was just too hard. 00:09:54.159 --> 00:10:03.759 Yeah, but we would do uh simpler versions of a lot of the soul stuff, and so we came along when there was soul and psychedelic, and and bands were either soul or psychedelic. 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:09.279 Well, we we would do some soul, and then we'd do some Jimi Hendrix, you know, we'd do some quote psychedelic stuff. 00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:22.960 And um, so I came along first game playing that stuff, and then um when I got into high school, uh folk clubs uh started, uh folk and America, what we would now call Americana Clubs started popping up. 00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:31.039 And I ended up getting taken on at a place called the Red Mule in Norfolk, Virginia, which was a cool club uh bar. 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:34.960 You had to be 21 to get in, and I was 17 and playing there, which was a lot of fun. 00:10:36.879 --> 00:10:45.039 And um it was a it was just sort of an acoustic place, not a band place per se, but you know, uh acoustic place. 00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:48.159 But um, for example, it was it was fairly well known. 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:58.080 Uh I mean Emmy Lou Harris used to come and and bump me when she would she would come and play with with her band, and then uh I I I was off work for a week, you know. 00:10:58.240 --> 00:11:06.879 Um, in fact, it was funny because years later I ran into her at a country music hall of fame um function not too long ago, and I told her, I said, Yeah, everybody loves Emmy Lou Harris. 00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:08.240 But I got a bone to pick with you. 00:11:08.480 --> 00:11:12.879 She said, You bumped me out of the red mule. 00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:15.679 He doesn't remember, but you do. 00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:34.320 So I went from rock and roll to um to folky Americana stuff, and and then into sort of pop stuff when I got into New York, and then um ended up doing soundtracks and things like that, and then coming back to Nashville and coming back to sort of Americana uh roots. 00:11:34.799 --> 00:11:35.279 Yeah. 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:38.799 Did so did you always see yourself as a performer? 00:11:38.879 --> 00:11:44.240 And then the behind the scenes side of music, did that um did that develop later? 00:11:44.559 --> 00:11:49.759 Yeah, what happened was um the first time I played at a high school talent show. 00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:57.679 I played some Elton John song or something, and a local DJ heard me play and sing and go, you know, you ought to, you ought to let me introduce you to some people. 00:11:57.759 --> 00:12:01.600 So he introduced me to some people, and I started playing around in in clubs. 00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:07.679 And I and it was James Taylor and Elton John who who made me think, maybe I can do this. 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:09.919 You know, it was a kind

of music I liked. 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:12.080 It um it was kind of stuff I could play. 00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:18.159 I could do a reasonable rendition by myself without having a whole band to do like we used to do the doors all the time. 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:21.600 I loved the doors, but I couldn't do the doors very well by myself, you know. 00:12:21.759 --> 00:12:27.759 Um, but I could do um uh a James Taylor song by myself or an Elton Town song. 00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:32.080 So I started doing that and um and playing around. 00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:34.559 And that's when I thought, you know, I like this performance stuff. 00:12:34.720 --> 00:12:38.639 And I'll I'll never forget, I was at the Red Mule, I was auditioning for the Red Mule. 00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:44.559 I I had nothing but a little um nylon string um Yamaha classical guitar. 00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:50.799 And I was playing a song, I was playing Solitary Man by um Neil Diamond, which I think is a great song. 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:59.919 And I heard my voice coming out over the speakers and it filled the room, and I was like, oh, that was another aha moment where the angels. 00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:10.639 So um, and once in a once in a while I still get that where I get up to the microphone and it it fills the room, and you just go, oh, damn, you know, it when you're feeling on, you know, uh, like you're doing. 00:13:10.879 --> 00:13:14.240 So anyway, I felt like I was a performer, so I went to New York. 00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:22.879 Uh, I got uh put in touch with Phil Ramon, who was a well-known producer uh in New York, and he invited me up to come work with him. 00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:28.879 So I did for several years um and had a lot of stories and a lot of experiences. 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:34.480 Um but it wasn't clicking for me um as a as a performer. 00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:43.200 So what I started doing was uh getting into production, and then I uh it's an interesting story getting into TV soundtrack production, and then from there into film. 00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:47.519 Um I I don't know how much you want to go into that, but we can't Well, you're not you're getting you're getting ahead. 00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:48.879 You're getting ahead of me here. 00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:51.120 Okay. 00:13:51.840 --> 00:13:54.559 No, but you brought up Phil Ramon. 00:13:54.639 --> 00:14:03.200 So so you you know you moved to New York, and um, I mean, I'm sure that kind of had to be overwhelming for a young musician, for one. 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:09.279 But but how does Phil Ramon fit into the story here? 00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:17.120 Well, um, when I was playing around Norfolk and Virginia Beach, Virginia, um I played on a TV show. 00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:23.759 Uh there was a there was a TV uh broadcaster named uh Bill Lenz, and he really liked my stuff. 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:34.159 And uh so he would uh uh get me to come on his show, uh local TV, which was you know really fun, at the

age of um 18, 19, you know. 00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:40.559 And um he had been so he had somehow known Phil Ramon from his days in the service or something. 00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:43.679 So he gave me a sort of a letter of introduction to Phil Ramon. 00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:46.720 I went to uh New York, played some things for Phil. 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:49.919 Phil said, Yeah, yeah, you know, come on up, let's work together. 00:14:50.080 --> 00:15:00.000 So for a couple of years, um I worked with Phil, and he was uh he would give me studio time and sort of we would have a meeting and and discuss the songs and things. 00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:29.200 But in the meantime, you know, I'm coming in to see him, and Paul Simon's coming out here, and and I talked to Judy Collins in the in the waiting room, uh, you know, and then you know, I mean it was it was unbelievable um going over to our recording at at 48th West 48th Street to see Phil and then um running into you know Kenny Loggins in the men's room and you know it was just it was pretty it was pretty heavy stuff and actually it was it was pretty intimidating, you know. 00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:32.799 Um so Phil said, look, move up to New York, you gotta be up here. 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:37.919 So I I pulled up and went up there and started working with him and and uh you know went from there. 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:47.519 And how does um well you ended up singing alongside Billy Joel on The Stranger, right? 00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:49.759 What do you remember about being in that room? 00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:57.279 And by the way, The Stranger is Billy Joel's biggest selling album, over 12 million copies sold. 00:15:57.519 --> 00:15:58.399 Wow, wow. 00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:00.320 I know that's amazing. 00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:06.559 Well, what was happening was Phil was Phil was developing um, you know, a couple of musicians. 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:12.159 One of one of them was Billy Joel, who who had already had um, I think Piano Man had already been a hit. 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:20.720 Um, so he was he was uh developing me and some other people um and sort of trying to nurture us along the path, you know. 00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:22.960 So I was running out of money. 00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:28.240 I was waiting tables and and uh tending bar, and and uh so Phil did two things. 00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:34.000 Uh he would occasionally call me in for a um for a session where I would sing background with somebody or something. 00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:38.720 Or he uh he would introduce me to somebody who uh was doing a jingle, you know. 00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:45.519 Um like um I'll never forget the first the first jingle I ever sang was for Firestone Tires. 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:47.679 Uh Goodyear, good year. 00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:48.399 Oh, nice okay. 00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:50.159 Good to your tires, good to your tires. 00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:55.840 Um and so Phil called me one day and said, Do you want to come and um sing backup on the session? 00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:56.559 I said, sure. 00:16:56.639 --> 00:17:04.240 So I ran on down to 48th Street and I went into the studio, and it was it, they were fair pretty far along in the album. 00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:05.759 In fact, they were way far along the album. 00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:07.680 They were just doing some some sweetening stuff. 00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:14.160 So I walked in the record uh the studio, and there was uh Jim Boyer and Tom Bush were both friends of mine, they were his engineers. 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:20.240 I'd become friends because he they were we were sort of pals, and Phil was sort of you know the the guru. 00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:24.160 Um, so I walked in the studio and he said, Look, this is what we're trying. 00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:27.039 There's Billy Joel and the synthesizer players, just the three of us. 00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:30.400 Oh and uh he had a song on the turntable. 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:35.119 He said, Well, this is what we're looking for, and he takes a needle and he drops it down on 10ccs. 00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:36.799 Um, I'm not in love. 00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:41.119 So don't and you hear this, ah, all those ahs. 00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:44.319 So he said, What we're looking for is this band of Oz. 00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:47.519 Um, and that's what we want to do. 00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:58.559 So I said, Okay, so we were doing um don't go changing, you know, and um he'd already done the song, already recorded the song, and what he wanted to do is put those bands of Oz behind it. 00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:06.799 So Billy Jewel and I, and the synthesizer player who had added some parts, which uh evidently didn't get included, you know, in the final mix. 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:34.240 But we were we stood around a microphone, uh, and we just took turns breathing while doing one part, like we say ah, and then we double that, and then we do another part, you know, and um, and so we uh and Billy Joe kept saying we're we're making clam chowder here, you know, uh we're just putting stuff on top of stuff, and uh that's that's how that band of uh Oz got done in the background. 00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:42.319 That's that is awesome, and those those those background, those harmonies, they are they're they're they're very breathy. 00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:43.599 Oh, yeah, exactly. 00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:44.720 Yeah, yeah. 00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:55.359 My wife and I we were just talking last night about different different voices, like you have a head voice and you got a throat voice, you got your chest voice, you know, and and all that kind of stuff. 00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:57.519 And we were yeah, we're just sharing that kind of stuff. 00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:00.720 So you bring that up, and I'm thinking, wait a minute, yeah, that's right. 00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:03.039 Very, very breathy on that stuff. 00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:04.160 So exactly, yeah. 00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:05.119 Yeah,

yeah. 00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:10.319 But that 10, that 10 C C that 10cc song was just beautiful. 00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:12.799 I still think it's one of the most gorgeous pop songs. 00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:17.519 Oh, it's just it that that that part with those harmonies, very atmospheric, too. 00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:22.880 It's just very wide open and yeah, no, that's that's a that's a great song. 00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:30.400 So um what did you learn from watching Phil Ramon as a producer? 00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:32.480 Oh boy. 00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:37.920 Um he was um first of all, he was incredibly smooth. 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:40.160 He was uh I just loved the guy. 00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:53.440 He was he was sort of a father figure, and uh he could be he was very kind uh with me, uh, but he could be, you know, when he he was demanding with his engineers and and uh some other people he worked with. 00:19:53.519 --> 00:20:10.000 So I never I never had that edge um pointed toward me, but I learned um, you know, uh basically taste that um a lot of a lot of production is choosing what not to put in as well as what what to put in. 00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:16.240 And in fact, uh when we were in that session with Billy Joel, he had uh he had a version of the Italian restaurant. 00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:17.279 He said, listen to this. 00:20:17.359 --> 00:20:28.720 And so we're sitting there, and um uh they had a completely different horn section and orchestral section that sounded very Beatles-esque uh during Italian restaurant uh restaurant business. 00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:32.640 I thought, oh, that's really interesting, and then they had the clarinet going all over the place. 00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:43.839 And I and he said, and then we did this, and he played a second version, and it was completely different, you know, same song, same music, same chords, but the treatment what made it sound completely different. 00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:51.200 So he was really good at that, uh, bringing a treatment to something that that to the song that worked for the song, you know. 00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:54.799 And um, so that's that's what I learned is to to respect the song. 00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:57.200 It's sort of like what Ringo Starr always did with the drums. 00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:03.359 He wasn't there to to to do a drum solo, he was there to respect the song and do whatever the song required, you know. 00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:10.240 Yeah, I've I've always said that um about you know Ringo Starr and you bringing up Ringo Starr, Charlie Watts also. 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:16.480 These guys aren't flashy drummers, but they're probably the best timekeepers, you know, in the business. 00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:27.599 They know where their pocket is and they stay there, and they they just you know, they're they're the the the backbone or backbeat for lack of a better term of that engine room. 00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:28.880 Right, exactly. 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:30.480 And I've always been a song guy. 00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:35.839 I love songs, and I would it would I would get so frustrated when I'd deal with an AR guy and I'd and I'd playing something. 00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:38.480 Oh, well, I'd like to hear it with uh horns or strings or something. 00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:47.359 And AR guy is supposed to be able to identify the song, and then he takes it and or the producer takes it and does the treatment to it. 00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:50.240 But you have a you have to have a good song just to start with. 00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:54.960 So um, and serving the song became very important to me on this album. 00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:59.680 And what it led to was a pretty wide array of treatment because some songs. 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:06.079 You know, I had some songs that um were like little lullabies, and other songs were honky tonks. 00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:13.119 So I went from the honky tonk to the to the daughters um you know putting her to bed at night with lullabies. 00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:14.559 Um a pretty wide range. 00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:24.799 And so that's one of the problems I have is that in serving the song, sometimes the songs are so different, and what the songs need are so different that uh it ends up being in sort of a different place. 00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:31.680 But I hope that they I can string them together or order them in such a way that it's not jarring, at least. 00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:35.200 Well, in listening to it, I didn't I didn't feel that. 00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:38.640 I felt everything fit right where it needed to be, you know. 00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:41.680 And I know that that has to do with with sequencing. 00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:46.240 I mean sequencing, you know, we're we're old, we're old guys here, Claude. 00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:56.880 And so, you know, that's something that that a lot of music listeners, you know, especially younger generation, they don't understand that sequencing was a big thing to albums. 00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:07.119 And absolutely because you really like you saying in your in your Don Kusick um podcast, you sat down and listened to an album, you know, it was one after another, and then you got them up and turned it over and listened to the other side. 00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:08.000 They don't do that now. 00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:12.640 It's a singles market, and you 15 seconds, 20 seconds, and move to the next. 00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:14.720 Oh, it drives me nuts. 00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:16.480 That's what I was saying. 00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:24.400 I tell people to go go to my link, go to Spotify, because if you just go straight to Spotify in Tennessee Hill, it'll pull up just the song and the album. 00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:29.279 And so if you go to Spotify on my website, it'll pull up the album and the sequence in order. 00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:34.799 So if you if you go through the my website, you see the album in order, and that I think makes it a

little better. 00:23:34.880 --> 00:23:35.200 I don't know. 00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:38.240 Yeah, no, I and I I got it downloaded. 00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:46.400 I got it, I already got it, and I've I you know I like I told you, I've I've given it a couple listens, and I just I really like it, and we'll get into that in a minute. 00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:52.960 But you know, at this point, you continued you continue to work a lot behind the scenes. 00:23:53.119 --> 00:24:00.240 Um, and at one point you you produced the we can run video for the grateful dead, right? 00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:04.720 Um how does how does a project like that even come together? 00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:07.839 And I is there more than one video for that? 00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:11.200 Because I watched a live version of that song, so I don't know. 00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:18.480 I I actually searched recently to try to find that video and I couldn't find it, so I don't even know if it's up anywhere right now. 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:22.319 But um how that came about was was sort of interesting. 00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:31.279 I um I've been in New York for a number of years at this point, and uh my wife was working as a staff scientist for the National Audubon Society. 00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:40.799 And uh the Audubon Society at the time, uh Ted Turner was was uh producing these uh Audubon specials, you know, and um these nature specials. 00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:42.559 They were great shows. 00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:45.200 They were um half an hour, an hour, and PBS. 00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:56.319 And uh I got to know the the producer of that series through my wife's work with the Audubon Society, Chris Palmer, great guy, a British, uh very, very proper Britishman. 00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:10.000 So Chris, Chris would would put out these shows and they were great, but they would run out of money near the end, and they would have a guy for$500 putting a bunch of synthesizer pans pads um under this stuff. 00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:13.680 I was going, I said, Chris, I've I've worked with all these people. 00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:22.400 I know a lot of people who'd love to donate music to to donate their time to to give you some music that's much more interesting than what you got, what you've got now. 00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:24.640 And said, Cold, go ahead. 00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:39.200 Uh you know, so uh so I started producing music for the National Audubon television specials, and um I would pull in people like um uh well if I if I saw a song or something that I thought was right, uh like Michael Martin Murphy. 00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:40.799 They were doing a song in Western Rangelings. 00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:47.599 And Michael, Michael Martin Murphy had just come out with uh his cowboy songs album or whatever it was, it was some sort of Western song album. 00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:50.480 So I so I pulled him in, got him to go the director. 00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:57.279 We pitched songs and and uh went out to Reno and met with him uh to talk him into it and while he was playing out there. 00:25:57.519 --> 00:26:00.960 And uh so that's how that kind of stuff started. 00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:08.240 And then um we came across um the uh and The Grateful Dead had uh had a song We can run. 00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:09.039 So I just approached him. 00:26:09.119 --> 00:26:11.599 I said, Yeah, We Can Run is an environmental song. 00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:13.200 Uh Brent Midland had written it. 00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:17.680 So I said, We've got all that footage, let's let's do a video uh for it. 00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:26.000 And and the dead uh Brian McNally, um, I'm sorry, Dennis McNally, who was uh one of their business guys, said, Yeah, yeah, that's that's exactly the kind of thing we want to do. 00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:28.000 So that led to working with the dead. 00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:30.960 Then I worked with Mickey Hart on another another project or two. 00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:32.720 He'd just come out with Planet Drum. 00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:45.359 Um, and it just one thing led to another, to another, uh, and ended up working with Motown um on uh Marta Gay song, and that was an experience, that was a trip as well. 00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:54.720 So, yeah, all that came out of um working on National Automine Society specials, trying to get the cheesy synthesizers replaced with some more interesting music. 00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:57.599 Yeah, I um I did. 00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:07.359 I saw in my in my research here, Claude, that you know, I want you to tell me about Marvin Gaye, David Bowie, Smokey Robinson. 00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:10.799 I want you to talk about the experience of working with those guys. 00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:21.279 Well, that was fascinating because we'd already done quite a few videos and Motown called and I started working, and they had moved from Detroit to uh LA by this point. 00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:29.279 So they wanted to do a video for the 20th anniversary of Mercy Mercy Me, The Ecology, which is uh you know environmental song. 00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:30.799 So we said great. 00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:37.039 So um I went out to LA and started you know pulling together elements of people who might want to work on it. 00:27:37.119 --> 00:27:47.599 And Julian Temple, who uh had just done, I think he'd done the documentary for the steel wheels tour for the stones, um, he wanted to do, he was willing to do the video. 00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:49.279 Well, um that was great. 00:27:49.359 --> 00:27:51.920 So and Julian knew everybody in in LA. 00:27:52.079 --> 00:28:12.880 So I went out there, I made a few contacts, but he Julian did most of the heavy lifting there, and he put, oddly enough, on the job, uh his young assistant, um, to who had this idea about doing this video with this little animated tear coming out of Marvin's face and running down and then turning into all this other stuff. 00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:19.839 And um the young guy

was a little bit younger than me, and he was uh he was living the LA life. 00:28:20.079 --> 00:28:28.000 He was uh he was uh had a Harley, was going around LA, you know, had a black leather jacket and was meeting with the people at Motown. 00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:31.519 His name was is Gore Verbensky. 00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:35.519 He ended up being the director of all the Pirates of the Caribbean films. 00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:36.480 Oh, geez. 00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:40.880 And I mean, he's just he's supposed to be one of the biggest directors in Hollywood eventually. 00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:48.240 But to me, I I was like, oh Gore, you're living the life, you know, enjoy it while you why while it's good because who knows what's gonna happen. 00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:52.000 He ends up being this huge director later. 00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:54.880 What what year are we talking about at this time? 00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:57.279 Oh golly, 90s something. 00:28:57.519 --> 00:28:59.839 Um when you were doing the special? 00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:03.440 Well, we were doing the the video for the Marvin Gay song at that point. 00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:04.160 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:05.599 Yeah, it was in the 90s. 00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:09.119 It was in the 90s, and uh his career just took off after that. 00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:10.720 But but what happened with Julian? 00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:16.799 Julian had this idea to do this thing with Marvin Gay and have all these quote cameos by all these famous people. 00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:25.119 So uh, you know, uh he Vanessa Williams, he calls uh Smokey Robinson, he calls uh David Bowie. 00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:39.200 Um and so I go to this video shoot, and uh here I am hanging out with all these people, and uh, you know, I get to talk to Smokey Robinson, and and uh he had these incredibly intense green eyes. 00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:40.240 Bill has them. 00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:41.440 Yeah, yeah. 00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:44.400 And he's such a nice, nice man. 00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:55.519 Um, and you know, so so Julian and Gore Gore were taking these sort of um cameos of almost almost video portraits of these well-known people. 00:29:55.759 --> 00:29:59.599 Um and so I got to talk to David Boy a little bit. 00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:15.440 And what was funny about Boy was in LA it's so funny because people people uh give you the sort of LA, you know, if if you're talking to people in the show business in LA, quite often they're just looking over your shoulder to see who's really important that they really want to be talking to and not you. 00:30:16.240 --> 00:30:20.880 So you get a lot of that, then you go get a lot of finishing conversation, they just turn away. 00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:22.880 And uh they're done. 00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:23.519 They're done. 00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:28.799 Of course, I'm from the I'm from the South, and so we we we have a little try to have a little more manners, better manners than that. 00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:43.119 Well, of course, what I was always impressed by, David Boy was uh as cool a rocker as he was, he was the most most cordial and um and polite star I ever talked to. 00:30:43.279 --> 00:30:53.759 He he was engaged, he and I were talking, he was just talking to me, we were talking about stuff, and then um when we finished, he said, excuse myself, you know, he just excused himself and and went on to something else. 00:30:54.079 --> 00:31:00.000 But he just he just made you feel like you know, he was talking to you, and that was all his his mind was on at the moment. 00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:06.240 So I my respect for David Bowie was always extremely high, but it just went into the stratosphere once I once I met him. 00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:08.160 That's that's great, that's fantastic. 00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:19.440 I'm I mean so far, I'm I'm I'm looking down my notes here, and it's just all A-list artists, you know, musicians, and I'm thinking, whoa. 00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:27.359 So so you worked, uh, you you did some work um with Kenny Loggins on uh on a special. 00:31:27.680 --> 00:31:28.000 Right. 00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:30.319 Tell me tell me about that experience. 00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:31.359 I love Kenny. 00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:37.839 Well Kenny, oddly enough, Kenny's was doing some things in Nashville recently, and I saw him for the first time in a long time. 00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:38.240 Yeah. 00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:46.960 But um once again, it had to do with the same producer and the same environmental um um programming. 00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:53.920 We were gonna do a special called This Island Earth, and um asked Kenny to do a song about it. 00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:58.400 So I went out to LA and we we did a shoot in in his house. 00:31:58.720 --> 00:32:06.960 Um and he put together the song, and it was it was only partially put together at that time, and uh, but he ended up putting together a really good song. 00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:21.279 So I was sort of music director of of that project and worked with him on that, and we got that done, and then that was a daytime special, I believe, and we won an Emmy for the music for for that, which was which was really cool. 00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:26.160 The Kenny was a great, just great to work with, and he had been working with Phil Ramon in New York. 00:32:26.319 --> 00:32:32.799 He had um he just done an album with Phil, so we had some some sort of cross connections, uh, yeah, yeah. 00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:33.680 Tangent. 00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:36.640 Um all right, so where's the Emmy? 00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:37.920 Where do you keep it? 00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:42.880 Oh, uh it's on my it's on in the corner of my office over here. 00:32:43.119 --> 00:32:46.960 You mean you didn't bring it into the studio or the office there to, you know. 00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:54.880 No, in fact, the equity oddly enough, the executive producer uh kept the statue, and what I got was a

plaque. 00:32:55.039 --> 00:32:58.079 So I've got my plaque on the wall. 00:32:58.319 --> 00:33:07.920 He's got the uh the thing because he he raised the money and he he put the whole show together, so I didn't I didn't get the statue in, but uh I got I've got the plaque. 00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:10.160 So they only made one statue. 00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:10.880 Yeah, that's right. 00:33:11.119 --> 00:33:12.880 A handful of plaques and one statue. 00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:13.519 That's right. 00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:15.119 Well, that sucks. 00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:31.440 So what uh was was there a point, um was there a point in your career where you realize that you know you've had a pretty um pretty substantial, pretty unusual career at that at that moment. 00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:35.200 Is that a question? 00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:35.839 I'm sorry. 00:33:36.079 --> 00:33:36.880 Yes, yeah. 00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:41.599 You're right. 00:33:41.839 --> 00:33:47.839 Um yeah, I tell you what, what happened was I I I always wanted to be to write, sing, and play. 00:33:48.079 --> 00:33:52.720 And uh and of course, in order to support yourself, you gotta do what you gotta do. 00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:58.160 And it can be waiting tables, tening bar, um working on working Wall Street, whatever it is. 00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:05.359 Um and uh so what what what I got into was was wherever I saw an opening. 00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:11.119 You know, if I saw something that I thought I could do, uh or for a TV show, I would pitch it to the TV show. 00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:13.840 If I saw it for film, I pitched it to the film. 00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:23.679 Um I I tried to put a lot of projects together which were sort of tangential to what I really wanted to do, but it was still part of what I wanted to do. 00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:31.039 So um uh it kept me in the game, but I was I was sort of a a player coach instead of being a player, you know. 00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:31.440 Okay. 00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:48.719 Um and it was it was frustrating because I was I was helping other people do all this stuff, and I wasn't and I sort of neglected my own stuff for a long time, and that that sort of um finally sort of rose to the surface recently, and and uh um hence this album, you know. 00:34:49.039 --> 00:34:49.760 Yeah, yeah. 00:34:49.920 --> 00:35:06.960 So okay, you know, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of folks think that um, okay, uh musicians, you got to make it big to make to uh to make a good living. 00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:23.599 And I say there are a lot of people in the business, whether they they perform at a certain level, be it you know at a large club, theater level, that kind of thing, small arenas, or they're behind the scenes session players, that kind of stuff. 00:35:23.679 --> 00:35:27.280 You can make a fantastic living working behind the scenes in the music business. 00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:28.719 At least you used to be able to. 00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:29.280 Right. 00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:30.000 That's true. 00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:40.400 In fact, uh, one of the things Phil did for me when I was trying to make music, uh, make uh make it in New York, he introduced to some jingles, commercial producers. 00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:44.320 So the first thing I sang as I mentioned was Goodyear Tires uh jingle. 00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:45.679 And I thought, how odd. 00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:47.599 Because here I'd studied music, I'd love me. 00:35:48.079 --> 00:35:54.559 And here I'm Goodyear Tires and Goodyear Value for more good years from your car. 00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:56.320 I still remember the jingle, you know. 00:35:56.400 --> 00:35:59.199 And I'm thinking about tires here, you know. 00:35:59.440 --> 00:36:02.880 I wanted to be a rock star, a pop star, and I'm thinking about Goodyear Tires. 00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:07.599 Well, anyway, that's that's what you do, and so I ended up singing all kinds of jingles. 00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:10.400 Uh Arid extra dry. 00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:13.840 Uh, there was an Arid Extra Dry single that played for years. 00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:15.360 I made a lot of money from that. 00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:22.559 Um, but sort of had to work my way into that because it was a pretty closed um group because it was pretty lucrative. 00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:28.400 And I I sort of wedged wedged myself, got got in there a little bit, and then I got into production with TV stuff. 00:36:28.480 --> 00:36:31.039 That that didn't pay all that well, but but it paid something. 00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:34.639 So I kept uh finding little projects to do. 00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:42.559 In fact, one one interesting project I just uh thought of the other day didn't get off the ground, but uh I had a great time with Graham Nash one time. 00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:45.920 I was out collecting an award for one of the things we'd done. 00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:56.400 And what was interesting about all these awards was when Ted Turner was involved in the production, he had a staff that would take all this stuff and present it to all these awards organizations. 00:36:56.719 --> 00:37:00.880 So I wasn't out there trying to trying to get awards, I was just doing the jobs. 00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:06.480 But his staff would get us up for uh a New York Film Festival award or something like that, you know. 00:37:06.639 --> 00:37:12.320 So I was out there and I ran into um uh David Crosby and Stephen Stills. 00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:15.119 And so I was talking to them because I knew they were interested in that kind of stuff. 00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:21.119 So I was talking to them at this award ceremony, I think it was the Ace Awards, the American Cable something awards. 00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:24.159 And they said, he said, you know who you ought to talk to is Graham. 00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:26.320 And I said, Well, I'd be happy to, you know. 00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:28.719 So anyway, they put me in touch with Graham

Nash. 00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:34.079 So so Graham Nash and I had um had some lunches um in LA. 00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:37.119 And Graham Nash at the time, he's a photographer, as you know. 00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:44.960 In fact, he did that album where he's he's uh right after Carlos Twill's Nash and Young, um, where he's he's a photographer on the cover. 00:37:45.199 --> 00:37:58.559 And he had all these uh photographs from uh uh from the Army Corps of Engineers on the Mississippi River from the 1800s, showing how the river had changed because of the engineering and how it changed the environment and all this kind of stuff. 00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:08.880 So I I had what I thought was a great idea was to get Graham to to sort of curate all those photographs and everything, pull in all these blues players and from Mississippi all the way up to Chicago, right? 00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:12.159 And did a great music-oriented special. 00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:16.320 Um, and Graham was into it, all these other people were into it. 00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:17.760 I couldn't get the money for it. 00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:21.360 So it was one of those things that was a great idea that I pitched but couldn't do. 00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:27.920 So I was always looking for I was looking for an angle here, here or there on something that that would work. 00:38:28.239 --> 00:38:29.840 Oh, that would have been fantastic. 00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:43.920 Yeah, hey, go you know, going back to your jingles though, uh at least you can say you did you never had to sing um you never had to sing a jingle for like preparation H or something like that. 00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:49.840 You know, imagine have imagine having never forgotten those lyrics. 00:38:50.079 --> 00:38:51.119 Oh, I know, I know. 00:38:51.280 --> 00:38:53.599 Um I'll never forget. 00:38:55.280 --> 00:38:58.079 I I was doing one jingle. 00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:02.079 Uh I hadn't thought of this in years. 00:39:02.239 --> 00:39:07.760 Um, most of them are beer or uh Pepsi, Coke, Ford, uh motor, a bunch of those things. 00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:09.519 Only one deodorant didn't do. 00:39:09.760 --> 00:39:16.159 But one of them, one of them, we were doing a uh uh uh the product was SHIELD. 00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:20.880 And I and I shouldn't I knew SHIELD as a prophylactic. 00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:34.800 So uh so we're sitting there in the studio uh singing this jingle uh and the this the words were day in, day out, be confident with SHIELD, day out, day out. 00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:37.599 You'll you'll something about something the way you feel. 00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:41.519 And I was like, oh my god, I'm singing about condoms. 00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:48.079 And as it turns out, it was the new type of deodorant. 00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:50.719 It was not a condom. 00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:56.000 So I was I I did have an almost uh oh man, yeah. 00:39:56.079 --> 00:39:57.360 I could see that, yeah. 00:39:57.760 --> 00:40:02.320 Well, shield deodorant must have put shield the prophylactic out of business. 00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:07.760 I was going, my god, these lyrics, they're perfect. 00:40:08.239 --> 00:40:08.960 Absolutely. 00:40:09.199 --> 00:40:10.480 Oh, geez, Louise. 00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:11.599 Oh man. 00:40:11.840 --> 00:40:30.400 You know, you know, Claude, you've um you spent, you know, you spent much of your life helping um helping other people make records, um get their careers going or sustaining their careers, moving them along. 00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:34.480 When did you finally realize that you know I can do this? 00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:38.960 Um I've got I've got at least one record in me. 00:40:40.320 --> 00:40:42.800 It was um it's always been in the back of my mind. 00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:50.559 I mean, it it's uh when I first came to Nashville, I met uh through a I was introduced from a friend in New York to Pete Wasner. 00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:56.159 Actually, I was introduced to uh a friend of Pete's and I met Pete at his house. 00:40:56.400 --> 00:40:59.679 And Pete Wasner is a terrific keyboard player. 00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:10.239 He played with um, in fact, he was on the road with um oh god, uh Willen, um um Little Feet. 00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:18.559 Um uh and when um he uh the the lead singer for Little Feet passed away on the road and Pete was in his band with him. 00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:22.079 Um that was one of Pete's early breaks that sort of didn't turn out. 00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:43.280 Well, he came to Nashville and was friends with Vince Gill, so he became Vince Gill's keyboard player and co-wrote a number of hit songs with Vince, uh like um uh Whenever You Come Around and Um Uh and also Um Mama Knows the Highway by Heart, which was uh um oh god, I'm blanking on his name. 00:41:43.519 --> 00:41:46.320 Um but at any rate, so I got I got to know Pete. 00:41:46.480 --> 00:41:52.719 So Pete and I started writing together, and and I would and Pete had a nice has a nice studio out in Leapish Works. 00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:57.760 So I start recording with him, and we'd do a song or two here and there, and I would think, well, this is gonna keep going. 00:41:57.840 --> 00:42:12.880 And each time we did a song, like I put a song or two on the Bears uh IMAX CD, which was a compilation CD it put together, and I put a song with George Marinelli, who is um you know the guitar player for Bruce Hornsby in the Range, and also he played for years. 00:42:13.039 --> 00:42:15.519 Okay, playing for years with uh Bonnie Gray. 00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:29.280 And uh so George and I and another friend put a song together, uh, but each time it was sort of a one-off thing, and I wanted to put a whole album together, um, and I just couldn't quite get enough momentum going. 00:42:29.360 --> 00:42:33.119 Well, Pete Wasner, who I'd written with, is one of my best buddies in the world. 00:42:33.199 --> 00:42:38.639 Uh and we won some awards for some of those songs, but it was

like, you know, that was a one-off kind of thing. 00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:46.239 Well, Pete's nephew, Casey Wasner, um is uh runs the Purple House studio in Leapers Fork. 00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:48.320 So I got to know Casey from the time he was a teenager. 00:42:48.400 --> 00:42:51.199 You know, he came down to visit Pete, and he and I knew each other. 00:42:51.360 --> 00:42:58.719 Well, anyway, Casey he won a Grammy for um engineering and producing one of Kev Moe's albums and and set up this whole thing. 00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:01.199 So I'm going, Casey, you're doing all this great stuff. 00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:02.719 Let's let's go do some stuff. 00:43:02.800 --> 00:43:23.760 So I I start working with Casey, and Casey and I clicked in a way that I was hoping that Phil Ramon and I would have clicked years ago, or that somebody else uh I'd worked with would have clicked, where I play a bunch of stuff, Casey plays a bunch of stuff, Casey really knows how to record, um, and he's a good producer. 00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:29.440 I've done some production, but between the two of us, we could put stuff together really fast. 00:43:29.599 --> 00:43:35.519 So I'd go out to um Leapers Fork and get in his studio and he's well, I'll put the drums on that. 00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:37.920 Because he plays he plays drums for Ket Mo. 00:43:38.079 --> 00:43:40.320 Um just got off the road with him recently again. 00:43:40.400 --> 00:43:42.800 And but he's also a good bass player, good guitar player. 00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:47.199 I play guitar, I play keyboards, um, you know, I play harmonica. 00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:53.199 So within a few minutes, we've got a pretty good, you know, basic track for a song. 00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:55.599 And it's been we just do that over and over and over again. 00:43:55.679 --> 00:43:59.360 So finally, finally, finally, I've got somebody I can do a record with. 00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:03.679 And that and it would not have happened if not for Casey Wosner. 00:44:03.920 --> 00:44:05.119 Um that's fantastic. 00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:07.440 He pulled it all together. 00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:11.199 Okay, so people, this is what they call the turn. 00:44:11.280 --> 00:44:12.800 Okay, so we're turning now. 00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:15.760 We're getting now now we're getting to the record. 00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:26.320 Um how did it feel being able to put your name on the front of a record after you know working with many people on their on their stuff? 00:44:26.639 --> 00:44:27.360 Oh, it was great. 00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:29.920 I mean, it was it was what I'd always wanted to do. 00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:36.000 And um it's it it was a culmination of a basically a lifelong dream, really. 00:44:36.480 --> 00:44:37.760 Nothing short of that. 00:44:38.079 --> 00:44:38.320 Yeah. 00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:46.320 Were were these um were these songs written specifically with the idea of eventually making an album? 00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:54.559 Or did um did you already have these songs and you just they just they just needed a home? 00:44:54.880 --> 00:44:59.039 Well, I I I write songs, I've been writing songs all my life since I was about 12. 00:44:59.199 --> 00:45:05.519 So um none of them, well uh very I always hoped to pull them together on an album. 00:45:05.679 --> 00:45:13.039 One of the problems that I had was that there were so many different styles that I'd written in that it was hard to get a group that was would hang together, you know. 00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:13.360 Yeah. 00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:16.000 Because I love so many types of music. 00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:22.559 I'd you know, I studied classical music, um, I studied jazz a little bit, I played folk, I played rock. 00:45:22.719 --> 00:45:27.760 And I'll never forget a uh I had a composition professor in college, music composition professor. 00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:40.400 And this was a time in college when uh, you know, you had the jazz snobs, you had the rock snobs, you had the heavy metal snobs versus the folk snobs, but you know, every classical snobs, everybody was was in their fiefdom, you know. 00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:47.039 And my c and I expected the same out of my classical composition uh composer, um professor. 00:45:47.199 --> 00:45:50.800 And he said, he said, he said, but look at this and look at this and look at this. 00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:51.519 He'd pull these things out. 00:45:51.679 --> 00:45:52.559 He said, but you know what? 00:45:53.280 --> 00:45:54.480 They're all fun. 00:45:54.960 --> 00:45:56.320 And I thought, that's it. 00:45:56.400 --> 00:46:06.400 Here's a guy who just loves it all, and realizing that there's schlock in all of it, there's there's stuff, but there's good stuff in all of it, and yeah, the good stuff is all fun. 00:46:06.559 --> 00:46:08.800 So that's what I started focusing on. 00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:10.400 What is really fun? 00:46:10.559 --> 00:46:12.880 And so I pulled up songs that I'd written long ago. 00:46:12.960 --> 00:46:14.800 I pulled up songs that I've written recently. 00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:23.840 Okay and so I I just pulled them together and the ones that that we basically got finished first, if they hung together, um, we put the album out. 00:46:24.079 --> 00:46:36.079 And Tennessee Hill uh was a song that came out of um a night I went to hear Pete Wasner, oddly enough, at the um Bluebird, uh famous place in Nashville. 00:46:36.159 --> 00:46:37.920 And it was such a good songwriting that night. 00:46:38.079 --> 00:46:39.280 It was just I was on fire. 00:46:39.360 --> 00:46:47.920 I was driving home in this country road and uh big hill on the right, and this crescent moon was uh setting on the hill. 00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:49.599 And I thought, okay. 00:46:49.760 --> 00:46:58.800 Um, and so I sort of kept that, and then over the next few days wrote the song about feeling at home here for the first time because I'd lived in Virginia. 00:46:58.960 --> 00:47:06.880 Uh, my folks were

from Georgia, um, and I'd lived in New York City for 20 some years, and I came here and it was it was finally home. 00:47:06.960 --> 00:47:12.719 So it was sort of a a love song to Tennessee, and that's what the album ended up being built around. 00:47:13.119 --> 00:47:19.360 That's that's you you kind of you kind of took my story here, okay? 00:47:19.440 --> 00:47:21.039 You kind of skipped my story a little bit. 00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:21.840 No, it's okay. 00:47:22.239 --> 00:47:22.719 It's all right. 00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:23.760 It's all right, it's all right. 00:47:23.920 --> 00:47:26.800 I know the song's a little, I know it's a little autobiographical. 00:47:26.880 --> 00:47:28.079 It's cool though, you know. 00:47:28.320 --> 00:47:44.239 But but when when you um when you drive past Tennessee Hill now, do you still do you still uh you know have that moment or do you do you do you do do you finally realize I'm home? 00:47:44.559 --> 00:47:45.360 Yeah, yeah. 00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:46.159 Yeah, absolutely. 00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:50.960 I mean I I grew up on on on the ocean uh bay in the ocean in in Virginia. 00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:56.639 And uh I always tell people the only thing that that Tennessee doesn't have is an ocean. 00:47:56.800 --> 00:48:04.400 Um everything else I just love, you know, the hills, the the fields, the um the woods, the rivers, you know. 00:48:04.559 --> 00:48:06.800 Um so it and it is home now. 00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:14.960 Um and the people first time we came down here, first we we flew down from New York. 00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:18.000 I stayed in the uh Union Station Hotel with my wife. 00:48:18.239 --> 00:48:32.320 I I'd never been to Nashville before, never been to Nashville, and I was getting ready to possibly move there, and I told my wife at the weekend, I said I'd never been to any place where I wasn't related to anybody that I felt just at home, you know. 00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:37.519 So, because I it was so good to be um back in the south for one thing. 00:48:37.679 --> 00:48:46.400 Um, I love New York, um, but but I'm I mean, I would I had never gone north of the Mason Dixon line until I was about 19. 00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:48.239 I went up to New York to to meet Phil Ramon. 00:48:48.320 --> 00:48:50.719 That was the first time I'd ever been north. 00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:53.679 And my family has been in the South since the 1700s. 00:48:53.840 --> 00:48:57.840 So um, and I love the spell with all its problems and all its warts. 00:48:58.239 --> 00:49:00.400 Um, I still just just love this foul. 00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:10.079 So I I when I said I I came back south to rediscover my inner redneck, I I really did uh rediscover it and uh and loved it, you know. 00:49:10.800 --> 00:49:19.119 Well, um let's kind of if we can let's talk about let's let's go into the individual tracks on the album. 00:49:19.199 --> 00:49:19.519 All right. 00:49:19.679 --> 00:49:19.920 Okay. 00:49:20.079 --> 00:49:27.760 Now we already

let the horse out of the barn with the uh title track, but sorry about nah, no, no big deal. 00:49:28.400 --> 00:49:31.199 It doesn't matter what order we go and it's cool. 00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:39.360 But um the uh the the first track, the opening track on the on the record. 00:49:39.519 --> 00:49:42.320 Um I'm saying record here, okay? 00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:48.159 But uh I'm hoping maybe maybe I'm projecting and I'm hoping, you know, that's why I'm saying that. 00:49:48.400 --> 00:50:01.280 But the opening track um is bottom of a well, and that's said to be uh like you draw some inspiration for that song from Lee uh Leon Russell's Tight Rope. 00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:01.679 Right. 00:50:01.920 --> 00:50:07.679 Um can you start um well that's a pretty good title already. 00:50:07.840 --> 00:50:13.199 Can you describe the song as like I mean, what is in that song? 00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:15.440 What's the message in that song? 00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:20.000 Well, I was I was thinking about images when you're really, really down. 00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:24.480 And and when you're really, really down, um, what does it feel like? 00:50:24.880 --> 00:50:27.280 Well, sometimes it feels like you know you're at the bottom of a well. 00:50:27.360 --> 00:50:29.840 So I started playing with that image. 00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:37.199 Um, you know, you just you just you're just uh you know trapped and um very few options. 00:50:37.440 --> 00:50:47.519 Um and I always loved uh Leon Russell's attitude on tightrope, you know, I'm up on a tightrope, and um and his sort of sense of humor about that kind of stuff. 00:50:47.679 --> 00:50:55.199 Is it you know something about uh like a rubber knit giraffe, you look into my past, you know, as it was just funny. 00:50:55.280 --> 00:50:58.559 Uh I also loved um Randy Newman for that kind of stuff, you know. 00:50:58.880 --> 00:51:12.480 So I thought, well, this is really about depression in a way, but I wanted to be, you know, uh sort of um tongue in part of it, tongue in cheek, and and and and not self-absorbed. 00:51:12.559 --> 00:51:17.760 Um in fact, I often write from the from the standpoint of what I call our hap our hapless hero. 00:51:17.920 --> 00:51:26.800 Our hapless hero is a guy who's trying to get through life and crap keeps happening to him, and and he's trying to keep some distance on it, but still trying to get through. 00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:34.400 So that's what this guy in in uh bottom of the well, he's in the bottom of the well, and you know, well, you look up, you see a patch of sky. 00:51:34.559 --> 00:51:35.280 That's all you can see. 00:51:35.360 --> 00:51:45.760 And then and then you think about all the times where kids have fallen down the well and the news comes by and and it's a big news story, and he's just like, it's not a news story, I'm just at the bottom of the well, you know. 00:51:45.840 --> 00:51:46.000 Yeah. 00:51:46.239 --> 00:51:51.679 So I was trying to keep some a sense of humor uh

about depression, basically. 00:51:52.239 --> 00:52:00.800 Do you think um do you think sometimes the best way to talk about something painful is just to, you know, make make people laugh? 00:52:01.119 --> 00:52:01.760 Absolutely. 00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:03.840 Um it's it's a tangential thing. 00:52:03.920 --> 00:52:17.519 It's like a lot of a lot of art is not looking directly at something, it's looking sort of obliquely at it, and and then and you get something, it's like in a movie when they when they tell you what's going on or they show you what's going on, you know. 00:52:17.599 --> 00:52:20.800 Yeah the art is then showing you what's going on. 00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:31.679 And then uh so yeah, I think taking a slightly different perspective on something refreshes um the message, whatever that message is, you know. 00:52:32.079 --> 00:52:36.559 I I think humor is great in every situation, it doesn't matter how dire it is. 00:52:36.719 --> 00:52:39.280 You gotta you gotta laugh a little bit. 00:52:39.519 --> 00:52:43.360 I gotta tell you, I gotta tell you, my daughter just said this the other day. 00:52:43.920 --> 00:52:50.639 I said she's she's very funny, and she said something about uh it was very like dark humor, and we we have a little dark humor. 00:52:50.800 --> 00:52:53.519 And so I said, Oh man, I said, that's gallo's humor. 00:52:53.599 --> 00:52:55.679 And she turned to me, she said, Who's Gallo? 00:52:56.159 --> 00:53:03.679 And uh and so she we laughed about that just last night again. 00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:08.320 Um yeah, Gallo's humor is uh is very powerful, you know. 00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:09.760 So I like that. 00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:18.239 All right, let's talk about all right, the cheating song on the uh on the album here, uh full-time heart, heartache. 00:53:18.400 --> 00:53:21.440 Um there's I I don't know. 00:53:21.599 --> 00:53:32.960 Is there something is there something uh wonderfully old school about uh about an you know uh about a cheating song in in country music? 00:53:33.280 --> 00:53:35.119 Absolutely, absolutely. 00:53:35.280 --> 00:53:43.280 What one guy wrote about it and he said uh it's in the uh it's a staple in the econom in the country music's economy of bad choices. 00:53:43.760 --> 00:53:45.360 So I said, absolutely. 00:53:45.679 --> 00:53:52.320 But I actually I was driving along one time coming back from Nashville down to Franklin, and uh the the line just occurred to me. 00:53:52.480 --> 00:53:56.719 A lot of songs just come from lines that that uh you know just pop in your head. 00:53:56.960 --> 00:54:02.320 And um uh and the line popped in my head, part-time love, full-time heartache. 00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:04.159 And I thought, yeah, that's that's cool. 00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:04.960 That's interesting. 00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:07.840 So I worked with it for a long time and I couldn't get it finished. 00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:10.719 Uh so it's about and I couldn't get the story going. 00:54:10.880 -->

00:54:15.840 Of course, a lot of country music is a story, and and a lot of these songs here are story songs. 00:54:16.079 --> 00:54:24.559 Um and I couldn't get the story together, so I ran into Jeannie McQuinn, who's a writer in town, and um I said, let see if you can help me get this done. 00:54:24.639 --> 00:54:47.920 So she and I hashed out over a couple of meetings, um, and finally, you know, came up with a story where this woman comes into a uh dance club and um a country swing dance bar, and uh just with the girls, friends, you know, and then this guy steps up and and things start clicking, and before you know it, she's uh she's working on a full-time, on a part-time love and a full-time heartache. 00:54:48.079 --> 00:54:49.840 And so uh it really came together. 00:54:49.920 --> 00:54:59.840 Uh I already had the the the hook, uh, the chorus, and most of the melody, but I didn't have the store the story, and Jeannie helped me uh you know flesh that out. 00:55:00.559 --> 00:55:09.519 Well, so you were talking about testing out this song, you know, uh, and it's it's you know, road testing on uh on the dance floor. 00:55:09.760 --> 00:55:18.880 It's kind of explain what that means and and what did you learn from hearing a crowd react to it? 00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:23.280 Well, uh what I did was I took it uh back to Virginia. 00:55:23.440 --> 00:55:32.639 I was going home on some um uh some personal business, and there is a dance club, Country Western Dance Club, very near where I grew up. 00:55:32.719 --> 00:55:39.840 And a friend of mine from high school is loves that and has a whole group that goes to these dance places, like the wild horse used to be here. 00:55:39.920 --> 00:55:42.000 Now it's I think at something 10. 00:55:42.079 --> 00:55:46.400 Um, but anyway, um so I started looking at this. 00:55:46.480 --> 00:55:54.639 Uh in fact, I'd been there once before, and it gave me part of the idea for that song and for another song, this country dance boot scoop kind of thing. 00:55:54.800 --> 00:55:56.159 I thought, oh, that's that's interesting. 00:55:56.239 --> 00:55:57.760 It's the culture I don't know much about. 00:55:57.840 --> 00:56:01.599 So I went a couple of times and but with my friends. 00:56:01.840 --> 00:56:10.400 And then when I went back for this particular party that a friend of mine was having at this place, I said, I should road test this song because we'd just gotten it pretty much done. 00:56:10.559 --> 00:56:25.199 And um uh what really what really made it work to me was Travis Toy, who is one of the best pedal steel players around, put his pedal steel on it, and it was just like, oh my God, he he made it work. 00:56:25.440 --> 00:56:31.280 Um so I took the song, and uh there was a former WCMS uh DJ. 00:56:31.440 --> 00:56:37.840 WCMS was the country music station in Eastern Virginia, uh one of the first big ones in that area. 00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:40.000 And um he said, Yeah, I'll play it. 00:56:40.320 --> 00:56:41.920 He listened to it, yeah, I love it, I'll play it. 00:56:42.079 --> 00:56:46.079 So they played it and actually allowed me to present it in front of all these people. 00:56:46.239 --> 00:56:51.360 And they played it, and people, you know, sort of filed onto the dance floor and and started going around. 00:56:51.440 --> 00:56:59.920 And so I thought it was it was really satisfying to see it lined up with the other songs in that atmosphere, you know. 00:57:00.079 --> 00:57:01.280 Um, and it worked. 00:57:01.360 --> 00:57:02.800 So I was like, yay. 00:57:04.639 --> 00:57:24.239 Yeah, well, you know, you you brought up um you brought up Travis and the and the pedal steel, and um I hear the pedal steel on about half the tracks on the album, and there I tell you, man, you either gotta have a fiddle or pedal steel guitar to have a country band. 00:57:24.320 --> 00:57:25.920 And if you have both, that's even better. 00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:37.360 But oh man, I tell you, it just it adds just such a layer to the music, uh, to country music, period. 00:57:37.519 --> 00:57:39.360 And I just I love that pedal steel. 00:57:39.440 --> 00:57:51.039 It's such a just a I don't know how to describe it because I'm not a musician, though I love music so much, but it just it just adds something and it just it like it gets you right here, you know. 00:57:51.519 --> 00:57:52.159 Exactly. 00:57:52.400 --> 00:57:57.199 In fact, um I never played pedal steel and I didn't play with that many pedal steel players. 00:57:57.280 --> 00:58:03.199 Well, Pete Wasner, my buddy, knew all of them, you know, Franklin and all the the greats, and I would hear it a lot. 00:58:03.440 --> 00:58:09.440 But I always loved pedal steel, but I never had that much that I could put a pedal steel on until this project. 00:58:09.679 --> 00:58:13.280 And um, and Casey knew Travis Toy. 00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:22.000 And so, in fact, I remember one critic saying something about, yeah, country music is basically, I think of country music is three chords and an and a hyperactive pedal steel. 00:58:22.159 --> 00:58:27.840 I said, well, with with with good time uh with full-time heartache, Travis went crazy. 00:58:27.920 --> 00:58:31.760 It's like that's a hyperactive uh pedal steel, but it sounds so great. 00:58:31.920 --> 00:58:37.920 But the one where I it really just grabbed me in the chest was I did another song. 00:58:38.000 --> 00:58:42.239 Well, maybe I don't want to steal your thunder again, but out of order. 00:58:42.400 --> 00:58:52.880 But the pedal steel on um instead of me, yeah, just took that song and I just went, oh my god, that pedal steel makes all the difference in the world. 00:58:52.960 --> 00:58:56.800 And and Travis is so tasteful uh in what he's doing. 00:58:56.960 --> 00:58:59.119 Um and he just added an atmosphere. 00:58:59.199 --> 00:59:04.960 Um, the whole song just sort of opened up in this new uh atmosphere when when he played on it. 00:59:05.039 --> 00:59:08.800

So uh yeah, it that one's a that one's a little bit different. 00:59:08.960 --> 00:59:15.519 You you wrote it from um with like a a woman's voice or a woman's perspective. 00:59:15.599 --> 00:59:26.960 Um, well, a friend of mine is going uh who lives near here um was going through a divorce and she uh writes lyrics. 00:59:27.039 --> 00:59:30.239 Um and so she gives me what she calls word salads, you know. 00:59:30.400 --> 00:59:37.599 She'll give me she'll give me a bunch of lines, line to line, line, you know, about what she's going through, sort of a her her diary kind of thing. 00:59:37.840 --> 00:59:43.119 Well, she gave me this word salad, and I went through it, and I I'd pick out the pieces that I like, you know. 00:59:43.440 --> 00:59:49.119 And the line that struck me was um the things you held on to instead of me. 00:59:49.440 --> 00:59:52.639 And I thought, oh, that that gets me. 00:59:52.800 --> 00:59:57.199 So I started working on a song about Can I say, can I say something, Claude? 00:59:57.440 --> 00:59:59.920 That is a that's a deep line right there. 01:00:00.159 --> 01:00:01.840 It is a deep line, it is a deep line. 01:00:02.000 --> 01:00:06.800 And I don't try to be profound very often, but um I thought that was a deep line. 01:00:06.880 --> 01:00:12.960 In fact, a couple other lines in that in that song I loved because it's uh the the boy in the backseat. 01:00:13.119 --> 01:00:18.719 Um he can't know and he can't see how deep a river we used to be, you know. 01:00:18.960 --> 01:00:21.519 And um, and now you run to an empty sea. 01:00:23.599 --> 01:00:24.480 Yeah, I know exactly. 01:00:24.639 --> 01:00:25.440 I know exactly. 01:00:25.760 --> 01:00:33.599 And so I turned, I told him, I said that turns out to be a weeper, you know, and then at the end, and at the end, Travis Toy comes in. 01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:36.400 The song is just and it's like almost makes you cry, you know. 01:00:36.480 --> 01:00:41.039 And then you get to the end, and Travis does this little little sustained little suspension. 01:00:43.599 --> 01:00:48.400 Comes back and it's like, oh my god, Travis, you just just pull it out. 01:00:48.800 --> 01:00:49.440 That's it, man. 01:00:49.519 --> 01:00:50.800 Just rip your heart out. 01:00:51.119 --> 01:00:52.559 Rip it out, Travis. 01:00:53.760 --> 01:00:56.559 So listen to the end of that again, you'll see what I'm talking about. 01:00:56.800 --> 01:00:57.599 Yeah, yeah. 01:00:57.760 --> 01:01:01.519 That'll be the that'll be the first one I listen to when we're finished up. 01:01:01.760 --> 01:01:02.079 Okay. 01:01:03.599 --> 01:01:14.320 So um is there a is there a singer out there, a female singer out there where it's like, I want to hear her sing this song. 01:01:14.639 --> 01:01:24.400 No, um, I know a lot of singers, um, but there's not one that I that I'm targeting with that. 01:01:24.480 --> 01:01:40.079 I'm thinking of a few, and I want to run it by a number of people because I because I wrote it from a

woman's perspective, and it's from her perspective in the car with her husband driving, yeah, and the the baby and the young boy in the back seat, dark highway uh going through a divorce. 01:01:40.239 --> 01:01:42.400 Um, I would love to hear somebody. 01:01:42.480 --> 01:01:48.079 And I and I we were we've been so busy with just getting the album out that I haven't had the time to pursue that. 01:01:48.159 --> 01:01:49.599 But if you got any ideas, let me know. 01:01:49.679 --> 01:01:52.079 Send it to any female singer you want to sing it. 01:01:52.400 --> 01:01:55.519 I actually I actually do have a couple of ideas. 01:01:55.679 --> 01:01:57.519 We'll talk about it off offline. 01:01:57.840 --> 01:01:59.599 Yeah, no, I actually I really do. 01:01:59.840 --> 01:02:00.480 I'm ready. 01:02:00.880 --> 01:02:02.719 I'm being perfectly honest with you. 01:02:02.960 --> 01:02:05.199 Uh okay. 01:02:06.880 --> 01:02:08.400 Sonia Lee. 01:02:08.719 --> 01:02:10.079 Okay, Sonia Lee. 01:02:10.239 --> 01:02:12.559 Who who is Sonia Lee? 01:02:12.719 --> 01:02:27.360 Well, Sonia Lee, the the title uh is uh I was at a songwriter's um get-together, and this woman, beautiful blonde woman, um songwriter, did a couple of songs, and her name was Sonia Lee. 01:02:27.440 --> 01:02:30.079 And I'd never heard the the name Sonia Lee. 01:02:30.320 --> 01:02:35.599 As it turns out, she's uh she's um uh her heritage is Ukrainian. 01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:40.480 Um she she is uh National Songwriter, she does a lot of interesting stuff. 01:02:40.639 --> 01:02:43.760 And I laughingly told her at the end of the night, I said, Sonia Lee. 01:02:43.840 --> 01:02:45.519 I said, that's a great name. 01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:47.199 There ought to be a song called Sonia Lee. 01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:48.800 And she's well, I don't know of one. 01:02:48.960 --> 01:02:59.039 And so what I did was I just worked with her name, and then I uh sort of grafted that onto some memories of uh like my first love, you know. 01:02:59.199 --> 01:03:05.280 Um uh the first time the woman I first fell in love with when I was, you know, a young guy. 01:03:05.519 --> 01:03:15.519 And so I sort of put the two together, and it's it's just a guy sort of you know looking back and wondering um if she remembers him the way he remembers her. 01:03:16.800 --> 01:03:17.440 Yeah. 01:03:17.760 --> 01:03:23.280 Can you uh you want to tell me about the summer you were trying to get back to when you wrote this? 01:03:23.840 --> 01:03:25.760 Expand on it a little bit, Claude. 01:03:26.159 --> 01:03:29.519 Well, it was it was uh you know, I was probably 21, 22. 01:03:29.599 --> 01:03:34.960 I'd I'd been dating, you know, um, and had girlfriends and everything, but I've never really fallen in love. 01:03:35.199 --> 01:03:37.519 And um, I was traveling cross-country. 01:03:37.599 --> 01:03:46.960 I took I took a cross-country trip in my 57 Chevy, drove from the East Coast to the West Coast, saw some friends in LA, and then turned around and drove back. 01:03:47.119 --> 01:03:57.360 And um I I was falling in love with this girl, and I got to San Francisco, and I looked around, and there were all these people on the street and the Trans-America building, and I thought, you know, there are all these people. 01:03:57.440 --> 01:03:58.320 I don't know any of them. 01:03:58.400 --> 01:03:59.840 They don't mean anything to me. 01:04:00.159 --> 01:04:03.360 This woman back in Virginia is the one I love, you know. 01:04:03.440 --> 01:04:04.639 So I had this epiphany. 01:04:04.960 --> 01:04:08.320 So I drove six, seven days, you know, six days on the road. 01:04:08.480 --> 01:04:12.079 Um, and uh hey, that's a that's a Dave Dudley song. 01:04:12.239 --> 01:04:12.800 Oh, I love it. 01:04:12.880 --> 01:04:14.880 I do it all the time with my band in Virginia. 01:04:14.960 --> 01:04:17.039 It's uh it's a great song. 01:04:17.760 --> 01:04:19.519 Wow, I can't you just brought that up, man. 01:04:19.599 --> 01:04:21.039 I just it just hit me right now. 01:04:21.920 --> 01:04:24.079 Okay, sorry, I'm sorry, continue tonight. 01:04:24.159 --> 01:04:30.559 Well, anyway, I I the the sad part was I got home that night and she dropped me like two days later. 01:04:31.679 --> 01:04:44.000 At the end of at the end of the summer, after I'd sort of and she would, you know, she was sort of into me, and I was uh she dropped me to go back with her old boyfriend, and I was like, oh God, right when I was ready to say, okay, let's go. 01:04:44.159 --> 01:04:49.440 So anyway, once again, our hapless hero uh takes a shot and misses. 01:04:49.840 --> 01:04:52.719 So uh that's where a lot of my songs come from. 01:04:53.039 --> 01:04:53.599 Wow. 01:04:53.840 --> 01:04:54.239 Wow. 01:04:54.400 --> 01:05:00.000 Is is so so uh is nostalgia kind of a big part of your your songwriting? 01:05:00.320 --> 01:05:04.000 Some uh of the of the heartbreak kind of stuff. 01:05:04.079 --> 01:05:06.239 I try not to the ones that make you cry, right? 01:05:06.719 --> 01:05:07.599 Well, yeah, yeah. 01:05:07.760 --> 01:05:16.079 No, so the the the nostalgic ones were that one and um and particularly the last lullaby, which is the last song on the album. 01:05:16.239 --> 01:05:20.559 Um that's particularly nostalgic, and that's based on a true story too. 01:05:20.800 --> 01:05:23.840 Um but yeah, that's nostalgia's part of it. 01:05:23.920 --> 01:05:26.719 Um country music's pretty nostalgic, as you know. 01:05:26.880 --> 01:05:28.800 Um and storytelling. 01:05:29.119 --> 01:05:31.119 And storytelling and and nostalgia. 01:05:31.199 --> 01:05:38.320 And I I was I was always I when I was a kid, I try not to be too nostalgic, uh, and I try not to be too sentimental, obviously. 01:05:38.480 --> 01:05:42.000 Um, and that's why I try to keep some distance on some of these things. 01:05:42.159 --> 01:05:45.360 And I don't want to, I don't set out to write a weeper, you know. 01:05:45.599 --> 01:05:49.519 Um but uh because uh I

find it a little self indulgent. 01:05:49.599 --> 01:05:56.239 And that's why I try to keep things um just a little more, a little wink here and there, you know, to keep some distance. 01:05:56.320 --> 01:06:01.519 You can still slip some things in that are meaningful, you know, but you don't have to pound people over the head with how profound you are. 01:06:02.320 --> 01:06:03.280 Right, right. 01:06:03.679 --> 01:06:09.679 Well, so I guess that takes us to that takes us to the fun track. 01:06:09.920 --> 01:06:13.599 And that would be too many Yankees. 01:06:13.840 --> 01:06:18.559 And and and in parentheses, and now we're going to get into that one too. 01:06:18.880 --> 01:06:20.480 We're going to get into parentheses part. 01:06:20.880 --> 01:06:24.480 Bless their hearts, because I know what that means. 01:06:24.719 --> 01:06:26.079 I know what that means. 01:06:26.320 --> 01:06:31.519 So tell tell tell me the story behind this one, okay? 01:06:31.840 --> 01:06:33.519 Well, this is a true story. 01:06:33.599 --> 01:06:34.880 This happened not that long ago. 01:06:34.960 --> 01:06:36.400 This one was sort of written for the record. 01:06:36.559 --> 01:06:37.760 In fact I wrote for the record. 01:06:37.840 --> 01:06:39.760 Then I was worried about it and I almost left it off. 01:06:39.840 --> 01:06:43.440 And Casey's and some other people uh talking in you know you got to leave that on. 01:06:43.519 --> 01:06:44.320 You got to leave that on. 01:06:44.400 --> 01:06:47.440 And because it's so it's a joke I called it a joke song, you know. 01:06:48.159 --> 01:06:53.840 So I right at my window right here is Main Street Franklin, Tennessee, and I've got three dogs around me. 01:06:53.920 --> 01:07:25.840 Well I'm I usually have dogs and I'm I was walking across the street uh a couple of uh several months ago and uh this guy was coming up and it was an intersection and uh walksheim is on and then it starts flashing red for the pedestrian but it was still you know uh red for green for this way and red for this way so I was okay yeah this guy was coming down he was bearing down on me and I was like oh what wait I was trying to figure out which way I had to jump and I had my dog with me and so I got to the curb and I I figured he would go by and go in the south he would just go oh I'm sorry I didn't mean to run you down. 01:07:26.079 --> 01:08:11.599 Well he he turned the corner and rolled his window down and started as we say in the south fussing at me and uh and I said what are you doing you know you nearly ran me down you're you're being a jerk you know and what's funny is uh in the meantime and part of that is this great migration basically from California and from other parts of the country to Tennessee people are uh it's popular and people are coming down so there's been this huge influx so I thought well damn this this the character of this place is changing and uh so I I thought uh there are too many Yankees moving into my hometown and uh so that was the the crux of the song and the song is absolutely biographical the other thing I like to do is I like to take Southern phrases and work with them. 01:08:11.760 --> 01:08:18.800 Like the great the the I'll never get to this but the one of the greatest ones is Tom Petty's Don't Do Me Like That. 01:08:19.279 --> 01:08:21.920 Don't Do Me Like That is a real oh don't do me like that. 01:08:22.000 --> 01:08:23.039 That's a real Southernism. 01:08:23.680 --> 01:08:38.239 You go yeah and um and Tom Petty's from Florida and uh you know North Florida which is real Southern and uh he just took this great Southernism and turned into a song well I've got a couple that I'm working on like that but there's some lines in in that song like uh used to be folks were sweet to me. 01:08:38.399 --> 01:10:52.000 Well people don't say sweet to me they say they're nice to me you know but in the South they say oh they're sweet to me you know um so there's all that kind of stuff and then you get to the uh to the bless their hearts uh thing which of course has become a cliche now because everybody knows that you can say the nastiest thing about somebody you want to but as long as you end it with bless their hearts it it sort of sort of makes it okay it softens the blow you know so that's why uh I I tried to soften that in case anybody thought it was uh it was too bitter now put the uh at the end of it well bless their hearts it's almost uh well yeah it's like it's like somebody says or does something really stupid and you're just like well bless your heart absolutely and it's like you're such a moron or exactly and it it can have multiple meanings like it it's almost like an F U too oh it can be it can be yeah it can be aggressive it can be aggressive but it can be just pitiful in fact my favorite line is he's dumb as a rock bless his heart you're hitting him two times with that one you know exactly um has have you have you gotten in any trouble performing that one I haven't performed it yet today not in fact uh we're gonna have this uh release party uh I think October 27th and I'm gonna actually play it out for the first time uh it'll be interesting to see if if the Yankees if the Northern is in the in the in the in the group uh actually get a kick out of it or not uh and what's so funny is I always say well you know I I was being very inclusive when Casey Wasner is a bona fide Yankee and he he's singing background on it and playing bass and you know so so obviously uh we're friends here and of course I lived in New York City for for 20 plus years so uh I was in it was interesting to see the reaction of my friends in New York to my too many Yankees song you know well yeah in in the lyric you know you mentioned the Yankees from from New York but you also mentioned folks from California too and and did when when that guy got done fussing at you and he kept moving on was the license plate a California plate? 01:10:52.239 --> 01:11:02.479 It was not but it was out

of state you know in fact I almost bad right I almost put a I almost put a line in there about uh license plate out of state but it I sort of ran out of time on that. 01:11:02.560 --> 01:11:15.359 But uh yeah well it's like come on people hey you go see you go to Tennessee for the people and the culture and all that don't bring your culture from everywhere else no lose it all and and and adapt. 01:11:15.600 --> 01:11:21.520 That's the thing it's so friendly I mean this the one of the great things about the South South is the friendliness and the cordiality. 01:11:21.600 --> 01:11:35.680 In fact that's why I wrote that line uh they they came to see our hospitality and decided to stick around you know uh that's right and and one of the rhymes I was proud of is and uh they told their cousins just how nice it was and and that they should all come on down. 01:11:35.760 --> 01:11:43.760 You know Ryan and cousin with was you know and uh so they come down for the hospitality and then then there's then they're honking horns. 01:11:43.920 --> 01:11:47.359 I mean there are more honking horns on Main Street now than there ever have been. 01:11:47.439 --> 01:11:55.039 Because you don't lay out the horn if you're something you toot you know you might do that but they you know that's that's not what used to happen. 01:11:55.119 --> 01:13:39.840 So anyway trying with trying to educate them a little bit that's it well you know so so here here's how it goes down when you uh when you finally perform that song outside of a listening party where people hear it or whatever but depending on the crowd you don't you don't have to to to to uh announce anything you don't have to say anything you just finish one song and you just say hey folks bless their hearts and then bam you get right into it bless your hearts yeah and then you just boom you just go right into it that's a good idea I'm gonna use that I'm using well if you use it you know we'll know where it came from exactly um so there's um there's an emotional emotional pivot leading into the the last two tracks on the on the album and um uh the next one is um precious one you um you wrote the song for your daughter right right right so did you immediately uh did you know immediately that this was gonna be a personal song oh yeah in fact um it it sort of came to me sort of like a John Prime very simple stripped down kind of um song with with a simple lyric and um and I was just trying to write something for my daughter that wasn't too sentimental you know um but was but was still heartfelt you know and um so I wrote it sort of as a as a lullaby for her and that's why at the end of the album I basically put two lullabies and um I didn't intend to do that and but that's sort of the way it worked out on this program and on this particular album. 01:13:40.000 --> 01:13:52.399 So um yeah I I wrote it for her and about her and uh just trying to console her as she as she's going out and either going to sleep or going out into the world you know as a as a person. 01:13:52.880 --> 01:13:58.319 So um has she uh did did did she hear it before you recorded it? 01:13:58.640 --> 01:14:09.279 Yeah she did um I I would play it just sort of uh I mean in the really it's I I think the recording is very very stripped down it's just the guitar. 01:14:09.439 --> 01:14:21.359 I'm playing guitar and singing it might be a bass um but it's real stripped down it's just the way I used to play it sitting on the side of her bed trying to uh you know get her to go to sleep. 01:14:21.920 --> 01:17:33.359 What do you hope that um what do you hope she hears years from now when she goes back and listens to this song oh I hope she uh just remembers how much her father loved her you know and uh and uh forgets all the uh arguments we have hey that's the way it is with kids you know I know exactly so did um is is writing writing a song for your child is it one of the most vulnerable things that you could do as a songwriter yeah and one of the things you have to watch out for is falling into some sort of maudlin um overly sentimental thing um which I tried very much not to do um and I think you know I tried to keep you know it it's not too mushy I hope uh it's just quiet but it that the trap there is you become mushy you know and nobody wants to hear somebody else's mush you know you might want to hear your own but you don't want to hear other people's so uh try to keep it away from that um right so the last track and you and and you you you brought it up you say I don't know how we got this way but this is how this is how finished up it's called sequencing okay that's how that's how you ended up with the last two tracks being the way they are so the the last lullaby um take me back to the the uh the original story behind this song okay I was um in college and um it was near graduation and I had been I I played piano and guitar and I'd studied piano and guitar but I uh in my senior year I started studying violin a little bit I was not very good but I wanted to play an instrument that was not a chordal instrument that I could read one line because piano you're reading a whole you know four or five notes at a time same is true with guitar um but I started playing violin and I had some uh I had a very good violin teacher and I went along pretty fast for somebody who'd never played the violin before um so I got sort of good and started fiddling a little bit um and I there was this girl I was uh dating and I was sort of you know infatuated with her and we were talking about something one time and romantic gestures or something and I said you know uh I mentioned something about being serenaded uh below your window and she said well I've I've never been serenaded below my window I said you haven't I said really really so so I took that away in the back of my mind well one night um I went by her I I dressed up I I put on overalls like a country boy I put on overalls and like a straw hat had had a fiddle

uh that I could barely play I could play a little bit and uh barefoot I went over to her dorm and started playing playing the fiddle below her window and um and it was all it was all sort of a a joking grand gesture you know yeah um and uh I I finished it and she she waved and then I and I went away and it was it was done. 01:17:33.520 --> 01:17:42.800 Well when I was looking back on it it was it was actually it was right before graduation it was right before everybody was going their separate ways and it was a real it was a real goodbye. 01:17:43.439 --> 01:18:05.359 And it started to have more weight to it looking back on it than it did at the time you know so um I imagined it sort of as an almost uh like a 19th century kind of ballad it's it's very old school yeah and um and I I came up with the um I actually wrote it when I was in New York and uh came up with the chord progressions and everything. 01:18:05.600 --> 01:18:08.000 And uh I liked it but never did anything with it. 01:18:08.159 --> 01:18:42.640 And then we started doing this record there was a woman Audrey Swank who plays on the street here in Franklin Tennessee she used to play on the street a lot really she was a busker she would play on the corner here uh with the same corner that I was crossing that I was playing of course um so she's playing uh what I think is violin but I later realized it's a viola but she plays it so well and so I heard her and I got to know her and I had her up to my office we played some things together we had a good time so I thought you know I really want you to play the fiddle part on this song. 01:18:42.800 --> 01:18:44.560 So I wrote them I wrote a fiddle part for her. 01:18:44.640 --> 01:18:46.000 She's a classically trained musician. 01:18:46.079 --> 01:19:25.279 She's now at um Vanderbilt I think in um uh starting classical music and playing with with some of the orchestras around so uh I pulled her into Casey's studio and um and wrote a part wrote wrote a single line for her here and there but then at the end I said look I want I want to do something uh with sort of a string trio and I'd never written a string trio before uh to finish out the song and the album and so I wrote this three part this three part string trio that's very short but it's sort of like my Eleanor Rigby you know um it's it's my thing where a little classical comes into the Americana whatever it is. 01:19:25.439 --> 01:19:54.880 So she played it she played it beautifully and we mixed it and um and I just thought it was the perfect end to uh uh the last lullaby where everybody's going their separate ways and um and there's and the the line is uh um there's nothing to say you know um I know my sorrow I know how to play you know and that's and that's really what you're doing the the playing is is getting the sorrow out you know so that's how it ended the album. 01:19:55.119 --> 01:21:20.479 That's fantastic that's that is a that is such a cool story and I love the fact that all

these songs have stories to them because I I mentioned it I was probably talking over you when I said it but that's what country music is country music is storytelling you know so but okay so by the time a listener reaches you know the last song what do you hope that people understand about you Claude Carmichael that they didn't understand when they started the album hopefully they understand that I can write a song that's the first thing and then I can sing and play it but really what it what it turns out to and uh is it's really um my gift to my friends and family is saying here this is something that means something to me I hope you enjoy I hope you have fun with it maybe it means something to you but yeah there you yeah you have been you're part of my life you're I want to give these to you because they are from inside me and so whatever you see in these songs is something I want to give to you and hopefully you like some of them you know that is so good that exactly that is that is so good. 01:21:20.720 --> 01:21:50.560 All right so now we've talked about the album I want to do some rapid fire stuff if we can all right I just I just want to have some fun now we've got all this seriousness out of the way let's have some fun um so I'm gonna bring up uh an uh a a name and then because you've worked with so many incredible people so I'm gonna I'm gonna bring up a name and I'm gonna ask you something about that name and then I just want you to give me a quick answer don't have to overthink it nothing serious. 01:21:52.159 --> 01:22:22.960 So Billy Joel what what did working around Billy Joel teach you about being an artist number one his writing was really good really strong it made me um it made me realize how good the writing has to be in order to be at his level you know um I'd say that's that's the main thing. 01:22:23.439 --> 01:22:23.760 Okay. 01:22:24.079 --> 01:23:01.119 All right uh Phil Ramone what did Phil Ramon see in you that made him want to bring you to New York I think he saw um he saw that I could sing um that I had a uh a voice uh my just a the the vocal nature of my voice was was warm or whatever it was that that he latched onto which comes out in some songs more than than others yeah um and he saw some of my writing and thought that maybe I could develop into into you know um a successful act because that's really what he was doing. 01:23:01.199 --> 01:23:08.399 He was farming he was bringing people up and um trying to get them to be stars because of course he did well doing that. 01:23:08.560 --> 01:23:32.159 But um so I think he saw a glimmer of something um and that's what I've been trying to I've been trying to keep that flame you know lit and and have it grow ever since then and this album is probably the the best expression of that that I've been trying to do my whole life you know well not only is the music good on the album but I I uh I like the album cover. 01:23:32.239 --> 01:23:33.680 I I really like that artwork. 01:23:33.840 --> 01:23:35.760 Yeah I do I like that artwork. 01:23:36.000 --> 01:23:38.560 I gotta tell you that's a there's a story behind that too. 01:23:38.720 --> 01:24:15.520 All right let's hear it um there's um Harlandfield Park which is near where I live uh is where we take the dogs all the time and and it becomes Sunset Hill at at some point because the sunsets are so beautiful uh into the West and that faces the west and of course the the moon set in the west when in my Tennessee Hill moment um so my I said I needed some photos so I got my daughter who loves to take photographs and my wife and we went out to this hill and I said well I got to take some pictures um just take some pictures and so I I put on this shirt that has it's it's the greatest shirt it's like a nudie shirt. 01:24:16.159 --> 01:24:36.560 A friend of mine Rick Crump whose parents owned WCMS which was the country music station in Virginia and he lives in Nashville now he had these shirts made for him and me and for this other guy um Tim Buffert who's a Nashville musician and we we are sort of the three amigos occasionally and we wear it you know it's really done up. 01:24:36.640 --> 01:25:46.800 I mean music uh notes everywhere and on the back it has this little thing well it's really country stuff uh a classic country shirt I thought well I'll wear that you know and so I put on that and my blue jeans and took my my Taylor guitar out there which is also black and uh just started taking some pictures when my my daughter said go over there and just and we're taking normal pictures you know from she said turn around and just lean on your guitar and I said okay well I turn around lean this and and so I just stood there I got comfortable and the sun was setting um behind the hill and the colors were beautiful and it was great because it didn't show my face which I was not anxious to show anyway uh so she took that picture and it turned out to be a great picture but then my son took it who's also a music musician Julian Carmichael look up his stuff he's got some good stuff out okay and he processed it using some sort of you know making a photograph into a painting kind of thing and so he processed it um and turned into this cool photograph and I was loving it and then his his girlfriend um holiday coles who's also a musician and works on everyone in everyone in the Napole area is anyway. 01:25:47.279 --> 01:25:54.399 She's in film production prior primarily now and so she put the layout together with the photograph and the and the graphics and everything. 01:25:54.560 --> 01:28:06.319 So it was my my daughter and my son and my uh hopefully daughter in law at some point who will uh who get credit for the uh for the cover well not that it will mean much because I'm really nobody but you can tell him I said it's fantastic did it a great job on it I will I will I've heap praise on him for it yeah it's all right there's um a couple of names we didn't really bring up um but these

are people that you worked with Paul McCartney right what what it uh what is it what is different about working on a project where Paul McCartney is involved where he's participating well you have his people to deal with a lot of them not not that many fortunately his organization is pretty string string down what happened was in that project I was that was the soundtrack for um Jane Goodall's record uh Jane Goodall's IMAX and so I got to go out and and uh work with Jane Goodall uh a bit and met her on several occasions and and um um sort of laughingly told her I was gonna make her a rock star uh on this album you know that we were doing and and uh but anyway so I introduced the concept to Paul McCartney and he because of his love for Jane Goodall said sure you know whatever you whatever you want to do um and he didn't have anything new he wanted to put on it so he basically he said well let me just give you this this track from my one of my lesser known albums wildlife um and uh it was an old track and so we didn't actually record together um he we just went through some stuff and he said okay I'll let you have this song for the for the compilation soundtrack um and his office uh his manager um was on 57th Street in New York at the time and um he was a great guy they they were they were uh really good the I'll tell you a story About the people didn't refer to his immediate management. 01:28:06.479 --> 01:28:08.479 There was a the cut was really long. 01:28:08.800 --> 01:28:10.960 The wildlife song goes on and on and on. 01:28:11.039 --> 01:28:12.479 It's like five minutes. 01:28:12.640 --> 01:28:17.119 And the last two minutes or the last minute and a half are sort of repetitive, you know. 01:28:17.439 --> 01:28:25.279 So I was trying to shade the album, and I I wanted to uh fade the song a little earlier, if possible, you know. 01:28:25.600 --> 01:28:37.359 So I I got his lawyer on the line, and um, and I was talking, I was talking to him, and I said, Well, look, I it would be really good if we can fade this with about 340, 345, 350. 01:28:37.520 --> 01:28:40.880 And and the lawyer, I heard this silence on the other side. 01:28:41.199 --> 01:28:41.520 Oh, god. 01:28:42.159 --> 01:28:48.880 And and so all he said was, Claude, when an artist, I said, Okay, okay, okay. 01:28:50.800 --> 01:28:52.560 No said, no said. 01:28:53.279 --> 01:28:55.840 So he started pulling his an artist vision. 01:28:55.920 --> 01:28:57.760 You know, I didn't, I I couldn't change the artist. 01:28:58.079 --> 01:28:59.199 I said, okay, okay, okay. 01:28:59.359 --> 01:28:59.840 That's fine. 01:28:59.920 --> 01:29:02.960 So we left the whole thing on there and and it was fine. 01:29:03.920 --> 01:29:04.560 All right. 01:29:04.800 --> 01:29:11.199 Um, I'm gonna bring this name up because I know this artist for one song and one song only. 01:29:11.279 --> 01:29:20.000 And actually, he is, especially in Canada, he's his you say his name, and it's you know, he's he's a legend,

and that's Bruce Cockburn. 01:29:20.239 --> 01:29:21.119 Yeah, yeah. 01:29:21.279 --> 01:29:22.720 Uh I I know him for once. 01:29:22.800 --> 01:29:26.239 I saw one I was actually looking it up. 01:29:26.399 --> 01:29:29.439 Um Wonder Wonder Wonder Where the Lions Are. 01:29:29.600 --> 01:29:30.399 I think that's it. 01:29:30.560 --> 01:29:36.800 Yeah, which I think is a really, really good song, but that's his only big hit in the uh in the United States. 01:29:36.960 --> 01:29:41.439 What what do you admire about Bruce as a songwriter? 01:29:41.760 --> 01:29:47.279 Well, the clarity, uh, his his lyrics are really clear, uh, as is his voice, frankly. 01:29:47.359 --> 01:29:49.119 I mean, he's just a great singer, songwriter. 01:29:49.199 --> 01:29:57.199 In fact, he played in Nashville recently, and I was gonna go try to see him again, but um missed the show for some I was out of town or something. 01:29:57.439 --> 01:30:03.439 But um he's uh he's he's out of the singer-songwriter tradition, you know. 01:30:03.600 --> 01:30:10.880 Yeah, uh, and and one of the great examples who hasn't gotten as much airplay as you say in the US than than he has in Canada. 01:30:11.119 --> 01:30:20.640 Um, but uh yeah, I I love the guy, and he he once again sort of uh I presented the project to him and he said, Okay, this this I think will work for that. 01:30:20.720 --> 01:30:22.399 And I was like, you're right, you know. 01:30:22.479 --> 01:30:26.319 So we pulled that into the into the soundtrack and and went from there. 01:30:26.880 --> 01:30:31.760 There's something about that singer-songwriter classification. 01:30:32.000 --> 01:30:38.000 Anybody in that in that class just can tell a great story. 01:30:38.239 --> 01:30:47.760 And you know, not not all songs are built around stories or are built into stories, you know, and they don't have to be, but but it's just man, that's just something. 01:30:48.079 --> 01:30:53.279 So um, all right, last part with or la last question with this section. 01:30:53.359 --> 01:30:56.079 We I got I got one more you gotta hit you with. 01:30:56.479 --> 01:30:57.199 Okay, okay. 01:30:57.359 --> 01:31:00.000 And I have to say, you've been very, very kind with your time. 01:31:00.079 --> 01:31:00.960 I really, really appreciate it. 01:31:02.079 --> 01:31:02.720 I'm enjoying this. 01:31:03.119 --> 01:31:04.560 I'm enjoying this thoroughly. 01:31:04.800 --> 01:31:05.279 Me too. 01:31:05.600 --> 01:31:15.439 So, you know, you've been uh you've you've been in rooms with a lot of incredible, uh, a lot of incredible artists, uh a wide range of artists. 01:31:15.760 --> 01:31:23.119 Is there uh one thing one like truly great thing that they all seem to have in common? 01:31:23.840 --> 01:31:24.479 Hmm. 01:31:25.840 --> 01:31:26.479 Hmm. 01:31:27.199 --> 01:31:28.880 That's a good question. 01:31:29.199 --> 01:31:31.119 Um I'll never forget. 01:31:31.199 --> 01:31:33.760 I was in um I'll tell a little another story. 01:31:33.840 --> 01:31:39.279 I was in the recording studio at AR with Phil Ramon, and he was producing Phoebe Snow. 01:31:39.760 --> 01:32:06.239 And um I was just sort of hanging out, and Phoebe, Phoebe had just met uh Neil Young, I think, and she had admired Neil Young, and she was talking about how what a danger it is to meet your icons, um, the people you've admired all your life, because the the risk is you'll be disappointed by who they are, or how the meeting goes and so forth. 01:32:06.479 --> 01:32:17.680 Um I think, and and I I I tucked that away in the back of my mind because I was you know meeting some of my the people that I I um admired. 01:32:18.000 --> 01:32:24.800 I think the thing they all had uh was I'm the word that comes to mind is big heart. 01:32:24.960 --> 01:32:26.960 They had a really big heart. 01:32:27.119 --> 01:32:42.880 And it wasn't it wasn't that that they were going out in soup kitchens and everything, but they were their heart was overflowing with something, you know, whether it's you know love or uh or talent or you know a uh desire to uh connect. 01:32:43.199 --> 01:32:54.720 Um so it uh it would have to be a big heart because David Borry was like that, and and uh and Smokey Robinson just blew me away uh with that kind of thing, and uh so many others. 01:32:54.880 --> 01:33:03.439 Um but of course, people like like Paul Simon were very guarded, and uh and I never met Bob Dylan, but you know, you you had your podcast about him, about how private he is. 01:33:03.600 --> 01:33:07.920 Some people are very, very private and they pull back, but even then you can see their heart in their music. 01:33:08.159 --> 01:33:11.760 But uh, some of them you see personally when you meet them, and it's like, oh man. 01:33:11.920 --> 01:33:13.840 Michael McDonald is another example. 01:33:14.079 --> 01:33:21.279 Uh Michael McDonald, uh, I was teaching keyboard at a little kids on stage program here in Leapers Fork. 01:33:21.359 --> 01:33:25.439 It was a big program set up by Albert Preston and uh Gene Cotton years ago. 01:33:25.600 --> 01:33:29.199 And you bring kids in, it was a summer camp for expiring musicians. 01:33:29.359 --> 01:33:33.119 So Michael McDonald was living here at the time, and he had a son, Dylan, who was in the program. 01:33:33.439 --> 01:33:40.079 So I ran into him and I said, Can you come and just do my keyboard class class, just when you feel like it, and and you know, show the kids something. 01:33:40.319 --> 01:33:42.079 So Michael McDonald comes in. 01:33:42.319 --> 01:33:43.760 First of all, I love the guy. 01:33:43.920 --> 01:33:45.199 He's just he's full of love. 01:33:45.279 --> 01:33:50.079 And at the end of his concerts, I'll never forget he would say, you know, be kind to each other, or something like that. 01:33:50.159 --> 01:33:54.319 He would say something like that, and I'll go, Oh, God, that's such a great, great sentiment. 01:33:54.479 --> 01:33:55.840 So he came into the school class. 01:33:55.920 -->

01:34:00.079 There were probably eight kids, boy, eight boys, two girls, maybe. 01:34:00.159 --> 01:34:06.479 And so he sits down and the uh key uh electric keyboard just plays something, and just I'm just blown away, you know. 01:34:06.800 --> 01:34:11.680 And so, um, and then we talked about some of his songs, some of which I had learned note for note, you know. 01:34:11.760 --> 01:34:13.840 So I was asking him about some of the things. 01:34:14.079 --> 01:34:19.680 And so he left, and I was talking to the kids, and they were like, ah, it's just Dylan's dad, you know. 01:34:19.920 --> 01:34:21.920 I'm like, what are you talking about? 01:34:22.159 --> 01:34:26.960 Yeah, that was one of the most incredible things things I've ever seen in my life. 01:34:27.119 --> 01:34:30.880 So he was he was just it just flowed out of them. 01:34:31.039 --> 01:34:37.039 Um, and the the great guys, it just seems to flow um from their heart, you know. 01:34:37.359 --> 01:34:54.720 And one artist, if you were if if if if you're old enough to have been around in the late 70s and pretty much through the entire decade of the 80s, was on I can't even countless albums, you know, performing with countless artists. 01:34:54.800 --> 01:35:00.239 Yeah, uh just you you need you need uh you need some soul, you call Michael McDonald. 01:35:00.479 --> 01:35:01.039 Oh, absolutely. 01:35:01.439 --> 01:35:10.640 Yeah, he's gonna he's playing um tomorrow night um in Franklin at the um at the first man amphitheater. 01:35:10.880 --> 01:35:12.159 Oh wow here. 01:35:12.399 --> 01:35:14.079 He's with the doobies uh again, you know. 01:35:14.159 --> 01:35:22.399 So um no, he's he was one of my favorites when he first hit the I mean it keeps you running was one of my favorite songs for a long time. 01:35:22.720 --> 01:35:27.359 Once again, very soulful, just just from the the heart, you know. 01:35:28.000 --> 01:35:33.840 Well, Claude, we have failed miserably up to this point with the our rapid fire segment. 01:35:37.359 --> 01:35:37.840 That's right. 01:35:38.479 --> 01:35:39.039 Love it. 01:35:39.600 --> 01:35:41.520 I don't care because I like it. 01:35:41.680 --> 01:35:42.079 I love it. 01:35:42.239 --> 01:35:48.479 This is I I just I love it because it just we're just here talking and I dig it. 01:35:48.640 --> 01:35:49.119 I dig it. 01:35:49.199 --> 01:35:49.760 So thank you. 01:35:49.840 --> 01:35:52.800 I love the stories, I uh everything about it. 01:35:53.039 --> 01:35:56.399 But now this is where it really gets quick, okay? 01:35:56.560 --> 01:35:58.720 So get too deep. 01:35:58.960 --> 01:36:00.720 Okay, we'll get too deep. 01:36:01.039 --> 01:36:06.479 First record you ever bought uh Booker T and the MGs. 01:36:07.439 --> 01:36:07.760 Okay. 01:36:08.319 --> 01:36:09.520 First concert. 01:36:10.319 --> 01:36:12.159 Um Humble Pie. 01:36:12.640 --> 01:36:13.279 Wow. 01:36:14.720 --> 01:36:17.359 Peter without with Peter Frampton? 01:36:17.760 --> 01:36:18.239 Peter Frampton.

01:36:18.640 --> 01:36:19.359 Oh, wow. 01:36:19.520 --> 01:36:19.840 Yeah. 01:36:20.079 --> 01:36:20.399 Dang. 01:36:20.560 --> 01:36:21.760 And Steve Marriott. 01:36:22.479 --> 01:36:23.520 Oh, yeah, yeah. 01:36:23.840 --> 01:36:24.720 Man, okay. 01:36:25.039 --> 01:36:26.560 Favorite songwriter. 01:36:26.880 --> 01:36:27.520 Oh, God. 01:36:27.680 --> 01:36:28.079 Oh, god. 01:36:28.399 --> 01:36:29.840 You better say Claude Carmichael. 01:36:30.000 --> 01:36:30.640 No, no, no, no. 01:36:30.880 --> 01:36:31.920 I'm not my favorite. 01:36:32.159 --> 01:36:34.720 Um John Prime's gotta be up there. 01:36:34.880 --> 01:36:37.359 Uh Paul Carney's gotta be up there. 01:36:37.600 --> 01:36:37.920 Okay. 01:36:38.319 --> 01:36:41.520 Uh, you know, that's God, there's just so many. 01:36:41.840 --> 01:36:42.479 All right. 01:36:43.039 --> 01:36:44.399 Favorite guitarist. 01:36:45.119 --> 01:36:45.680 Ooh. 01:36:46.479 --> 01:36:48.479 Tommy Emmanuel, probably. 01:36:49.520 --> 01:36:51.520 Um acoustic guitar. 01:36:51.760 --> 01:36:55.520 Oh, no, I just have to say Jack Pearson, who I'm going to hear tonight, by the way. 01:36:55.760 --> 01:37:12.239 Um Jack Pearson, he uh he is a great Nashville guitar player, um, who some people haven't heard of, but he he was hired by the um um uh Eda Peach uh Almond Brothers when Dwayne died. 01:37:12.479 --> 01:37:16.000 Um and he's played with the Almond Brothers on and off for years. 01:37:16.159 --> 01:37:24.399 Oh but in fact, there's a song on my next album that I'm I'm trying to finish co-writing with him, and uh we'll see if that's on there. 01:37:24.560 --> 01:37:25.039 Jack Pierce. 01:37:25.279 --> 01:37:28.159 Oh, well it's good to hear that you have a next album in the works. 01:37:28.239 --> 01:37:28.720 That's great. 01:37:28.880 --> 01:37:30.079 Oh okay. 01:37:31.760 --> 01:37:34.319 A song that you wish you had written. 01:37:34.640 --> 01:37:36.800 Oh, so many. 01:37:38.560 --> 01:37:40.079 It's rapid fire here. 01:37:40.239 --> 01:37:42.000 Oh yesterday. 01:37:51.119 --> 01:37:52.319 I don't know. 01:37:52.880 --> 01:37:53.520 It's okay. 01:37:53.600 --> 01:37:58.159 You can say any of them because you know as soon as you say it and we're done with this, you'll be like, oh no, I should have said that. 01:37:58.479 --> 01:37:59.520 Oh, I should have said that, yeah. 01:38:01.119 --> 01:38:01.520 Oh god. 01:38:02.239 --> 01:38:07.039 Um positively fourth street. 01:38:07.600 --> 01:38:07.760 Okay. 01:38:09.520 --> 01:38:10.079 All right. 01:38:11.039 --> 01:38:13.680 Best studio you've worked in. 01:38:14.479 --> 01:38:16.000 Ooh, best studio. 01:38:16.079 --> 01:38:26.159 It had to be AR on they had two locations, one on Fort West 48th and and one just off Times Square, and it had to be the AR studio just off Times Square. 01:38:26.399 --> 01:38:26.560 Okay. 01:38:28.800 --> 01:38:32.079 Best piece of advice a producer ever gave you. 01:38:32.399 --> 01:38:32.560 Oh. 01:38:33.840 --> 01:38:36.800 Um sing it again. 01:38:42.800 --> 01:38:45.520 Artists that you would still love to work with. 01:38:45.920 --> 01:38:46.239 Oh. 01:38:48.159 --> 01:38:49.439 So many. 01:38:50.319 --> 01:38:52.640 Um God. 01:38:54.640 --> 01:38:55.920 That's a hard one. 01:38:56.239 --> 01:38:58.560 Maybe you should pick one that has passed on. 01:38:58.640 --> 01:39:00.479 That way you can't hurt their feelings. 01:39:01.039 --> 01:39:01.520 That's right. 01:39:01.680 --> 01:39:04.319 Well, well, John Prime for one. 01:39:04.720 --> 01:39:05.600 Oh, there you go. 01:39:05.840 --> 01:39:06.079 Yeah. 01:39:06.319 --> 01:39:08.159 That's what that's who immediately came to mind. 01:39:08.399 --> 01:39:08.880 There you go. 01:39:09.039 --> 01:39:11.199 Well, that's that's what it's all about. 01:39:11.439 --> 01:39:18.319 Um album that you could listen to forever. 01:39:19.119 --> 01:39:24.079 Well, Blood on the Tracks, Bob Dylan. 01:39:24.880 --> 01:39:25.520 Wow. 01:39:25.920 --> 01:39:26.399 All right. 01:39:26.560 --> 01:39:29.520 Or or Dark Side of the Moon, one or the other. 01:39:29.840 --> 01:39:30.159 Okay. 01:39:30.880 --> 01:39:31.279 All right. 01:39:31.359 --> 01:39:32.720 And those are vastly different. 01:39:33.199 --> 01:39:33.920 Yeah, very different. 01:39:34.720 --> 01:39:35.680 Yeah, yeah. 01:39:36.079 --> 01:39:39.279 Um vinyl or C D? 01:39:40.720 --> 01:39:41.039 Oh. 01:39:42.960 --> 01:39:44.399 I'd have to say C D. 01:39:44.640 --> 01:39:53.279 I mean, I know it's not, it doesn't have the emotional cachet, but uh I bear uh I love vinyl. 01:39:53.439 --> 01:39:55.920 I love the way it looks, but I I barely put one on anymore. 01:39:56.000 --> 01:39:57.680 It's just too convenient to press the buttons. 01:39:58.239 --> 01:40:00.319 No, I I and I'm you know, I'm right there with you. 01:40:00.399 --> 01:40:04.000 I as much as I love vinyl, I don't even own a turntable. 01:40:04.319 --> 01:40:16.800 Um, but but and I love CDs because uh now obviously with vinyl, there's a warmth to it, and of course there's a nostalgia for guys our age to it as well. 01:40:17.119 --> 01:40:27.359 But CD, it's it's digital, and it it is the the clarity on it is second to none, and the sound quality second to none. 01:40:27.520 --> 01:40:31.680 And those CDs, they're just about indestructible, you know? 01:40:31.920 --> 01:40:32.560 That's true. 01:40:32.800 --> 01:40:43.119 The the funny thing about CDs um is you know the the the silences on an on an LP, you can still hear something, a rumble or something, just a little something. 01:40:43.279 --> 01:40:48.720 Well, uh, when you first heard CDs, it was absolute silence, and you didn't know if the thing was on or not. 01:40:48.880 --> 01:40:59.359 So um Earl Klug had an album uh where he played this beautiful song and it just goes down to almost nothing, you know, and you've got it turned up and it's romantic and everything. 01:40:59.520 --> 01:41:03.680 And and you suddenly you think, well, it's it's it's this

complete silence. 01:41:03.760 --> 01:41:04.800 You can't hear the hiss or anything. 01:41:04.880 --> 01:41:11.359 You turn it up, and the next song goes, God, and people are jumping out of their chairs, you know. 01:41:11.760 --> 01:41:15.199 Because you can't tell, but the digital stuff is silent, you know. 01:41:15.439 --> 01:41:17.680 I love the L I love the hiss on an LP. 01:41:17.760 --> 01:41:19.359 I love the little rumble on an LP. 01:41:19.439 --> 01:41:21.760 So I might maybe I I have to go with the LP. 01:41:21.840 --> 01:41:26.720 I'm sorry, I retract my I want to hear that hiss and rumble again. 01:41:26.880 --> 01:41:28.800 All right, and the crackles and everything else. 01:41:29.920 --> 01:41:30.960 Yeah, all right. 01:41:31.279 --> 01:41:35.119 Let's you know it's playing, let's you know, yeah, that's true. 01:41:35.359 --> 01:41:36.159 That is true. 01:41:36.399 --> 01:41:39.199 Most underrated musician you've ever worked with. 01:41:39.520 --> 01:41:39.840 Oh. 01:41:40.800 --> 01:41:45.920 Um could be Jack Pearson. 01:41:46.239 --> 01:41:52.960 Um, because he's just a phenomenal guitar player, and a lot of people don't know who he is. 01:41:53.279 --> 01:41:56.399 Um, I would probably say say him. 01:41:56.479 --> 01:41:57.119 Yeah. 01:41:58.000 --> 01:41:58.319 Okay. 01:42:00.000 --> 01:42:01.039 Couple more. 01:42:01.760 --> 01:42:02.640 Couple more here. 01:42:03.439 --> 01:42:04.560 I wish I'd known these in the header. 01:42:04.720 --> 01:42:05.600 I would have thought about it. 01:42:06.000 --> 01:42:07.600 Oh no, see, that's the fun of it. 01:42:08.000 --> 01:42:08.319 Okay. 01:42:08.720 --> 01:42:20.560 And I I this one, this one, don't look, it's not gonna get you in any tr in into any trouble because of where you reside and where you work, okay? 01:42:20.880 --> 01:42:23.920 But favorite Tennessee songwriter. 01:42:25.199 --> 01:42:28.399 Uh well, I have to be John Prime. 01:42:28.720 --> 01:42:32.319 Um, okay among those who have ever existed. 01:42:32.479 --> 01:42:35.039 Or I mean Hank Williams, for example. 01:42:35.279 --> 01:42:39.039 Um golly, just classics. 01:42:39.199 --> 01:43:09.920 So you touched on it, you touched on it earlier, and and I I've I've known this, and I think this is what's so fascinating, and we're getting off topic here, but but uh but in in Nashville, in the Nashville area, uh artists get together for songwriting, you know, like like powwows, so to speak, or songwriting sessions, and and so much absolute radio gold comes out of those. 01:43:10.560 --> 01:43:27.920 And is it just do you think it's just because wow, really getting off topic, but do you really think that that that it's it's because uh you've got all these minds coming together and they're just firing ideas at each other and they just have so much to say? 01:43:28.239 --> 01:43:28.800 I think so. 01:43:28.960 --> 01:43:34.640 In fact, when I first moved from New York, I was in the music scene, obviously in New York to some extent for a long time. 01:43:34.800 --> 01:43:42.960 Then I came down here, and the thing I immediately tell told people how was how collegial it was, how how it was neighborhood kind of thing. 01:43:43.119 --> 01:43:53.199 It was in in New York, for example, I'd play a club and people would be reluctant to call call somebody else up on stage because they'd be afraid they'd they'd overshadow them. 01:43:53.359 --> 01:44:00.399 They would now I'm I'm here to be a star, and if you have a star like call it, and if it puts me in the shadows, then that's not what I want. 01:44:00.560 --> 01:44:03.520 It was it was very competitive that way in New York. 01:44:03.760 --> 01:44:05.760 Uh down here, much less. 01:44:05.920 --> 01:44:08.560 I mean, people you're playing a club, hey, come on up, let's play. 01:44:09.359 --> 01:44:19.279 And and it it just the the collegial nature of it, uh the friendliness of it, uh just uh floored me. 01:44:19.359 --> 01:44:21.279 And and I loved it, and I love it now. 01:44:21.439 --> 01:44:23.039 Uh I loved it then, love it now. 01:44:23.199 --> 01:44:27.039 So that's definitely part of what makes Nashville Nashville. 01:44:27.439 --> 01:44:34.239 On the other hand, you do get these committees writing songs, which uh which I I think can go too far. 01:44:34.479 --> 01:44:38.720 Um and uh of course the piling cliche on cliche. 01:44:39.119 --> 01:44:43.600 Um, but that's where taste comes in, and you figure out what what you don't do. 01:44:43.760 --> 01:44:51.680 But yeah, it's it's that it's that uh soup that Nashville is with all the people coming together and and throwing their ideas in the pot. 01:44:51.920 --> 01:44:52.239 Yeah. 01:44:52.479 --> 01:44:54.239 The names aren't coming to me right now. 01:44:54.319 --> 01:45:01.920 I know one is John Conn, but but there's some other there's some other names in there, like I said, they're just not coming to me right at this moment. 01:45:02.079 --> 01:45:08.239 But I know that they like to get together in their writer sessions and they just you know go at it. 01:45:08.319 --> 01:45:11.520 And I know that just some fantastic stuff that comes out of that. 01:45:11.680 --> 01:45:17.760 But what's great, what's great too is you got you often get a little snippet of a song and you don't know what to do with it, you know. 01:45:17.840 --> 01:45:18.079 Yeah. 01:45:18.239 --> 01:45:23.359 Um, and you bring it in, and these and the other guys take it and start running with it, and suddenly it turns into something. 01:45:23.520 --> 01:45:28.720 And for you, it was just a little little piece of the song that you couldn't do anything with or couldn't finish. 01:45:29.359 --> 01:45:30.399 Absolutely. 01:45:30.720 --> 01:45:35.119 One song from Tennessee Hill that you're most proud of. 01:45:35.439 --> 01:45:36.399 Oh, golly. 01:45:36.640 --> 01:45:46.720 Um part, I'm most proud of the of the viol uh the trio section string at the end of the last song. 01:45:46.880 --> 01:45:48.479

I'm really proud of that. 01:45:48.880 --> 01:46:01.680 But um I think otherwise, I think I'm I think the song Tennessee Hill, I'm just proud of stuff, because it's a it's a heartfelt love song to Tennessee, you know. 01:46:02.000 --> 01:46:03.119 It means home to you. 01:46:03.279 --> 01:46:03.840 Yeah, yeah. 01:46:04.159 --> 01:46:04.479 Yeah. 01:46:04.880 --> 01:46:08.159 And so uh it's a it's a love song. 01:46:08.880 --> 01:46:11.760 So then I'm I'm not even gonna ask this next one. 01:46:11.840 --> 01:46:17.119 I'm going to assume that that's the one song that makes you smile every time. 01:46:17.520 --> 01:46:18.640 Yeah, yeah. 01:46:18.960 --> 01:46:19.359 Yeah. 01:46:19.680 --> 01:46:23.199 Although, too, although too many Yankees makes me laugh. 01:46:24.239 --> 01:46:24.880 Yeah. 01:46:26.880 --> 01:46:28.079 Definitely. 01:46:28.319 --> 01:46:35.920 Um this is the last, last question, Claude. 01:46:36.159 --> 01:46:41.840 And again, you have been so gracious with your time, and I have enjoyed this immensely. 01:46:42.079 --> 01:46:42.720 I really have. 01:46:42.800 --> 01:46:44.159 I really, really have. 01:46:44.399 --> 01:46:50.479 Um a 20-year-old you walks into a room and meets you today. 01:46:50.720 --> 01:46:51.199 Oh boy. 01:46:51.359 --> 01:46:54.479 What's the first thing that you tell 20-year-old you? 01:46:54.880 --> 01:46:55.920 Oh, wow. 01:46:56.720 --> 01:46:58.960 Don't be afraid to put it out there. 01:46:59.680 --> 01:47:00.640 There you go. 01:47:00.800 --> 01:47:01.119 Yeah. 01:47:01.359 --> 01:47:02.399 There you go. 01:47:03.279 --> 01:47:08.159 Uh, Claude, tell everyone where they can get the album Tennessee Hill. 01:47:08.319 --> 01:47:12.640 Tell everyone where they can find you, your socials, whatever it is you got out there. 01:47:13.039 --> 01:47:13.359 Okay. 01:47:14.000 --> 01:47:17.039 Um claudcarmicha.com. 01:47:17.279 --> 01:47:20.000 Uh, you can pretty much find everything there. 01:47:20.239 --> 01:47:30.239 You can find um the track list, the credits for the songs, the links to Spotify, Apple, Music, YouTube, whatever, streaming, Amazon. 01:47:30.399 --> 01:47:39.119 Um, you can see the reviews that have come in, uh, the press releases and so forth, um, and uh scheduling gigs and things like that. 01:47:39.279 --> 01:47:40.560 So that's the best place to go. 01:47:40.720 --> 01:47:48.000 But you can if you just want to go to the streaming service, just type in my name or Tennessee Hill, and you'll you'll come up with something. 01:47:48.239 --> 01:47:48.720 Anyway. 01:47:49.039 --> 01:47:49.279 Yeah. 01:47:49.439 --> 01:47:58.479 Well, I can't wait till you have the uh the the little the little merch symbol on the website so I can get like a hat or a t-shirt or something. 01:47:58.720 --> 01:48:08.159 Or you know, or even I look, I guess first, first things first, you got to get this out on in in in a physical form, okay? 01:48:08.479 --> 01:48:08.960 I need that. 01:48:09.439 --> 01:48:09.840 That's true. 01:48:10.399 --> 01:48:10.720 You're right. 01:48:10.800 --> 01:48:18.000 In fact, I'm gonna I that was on my list, and I've got to have it done for this release event that we're having uh in about two, three weeks. 01:48:18.079 --> 01:48:19.680 So I'll have something soon. 01:48:20.000 --> 01:48:21.520 All right, excellent. 01:48:21.760 --> 01:48:25.439 Um Claude, I can't thank you enough. 01:48:25.600 --> 01:48:28.319 I just this has just been a real treat. 01:48:28.560 --> 01:48:33.119 I honestly I didn't know what to expect, and I got a lot of fun out of this. 01:48:33.199 --> 01:48:39.359 So you're go ahead and I want I want to thank you for listening to all eight songs. 01:48:39.439 --> 01:48:42.159 I mean, it's hard enough to get people to I did. 01:48:42.479 --> 01:48:43.520 I know I appreciate it. 01:48:43.760 --> 01:48:44.399 I really do. 01:48:44.640 --> 01:48:47.039 Well, I I'm a music lover first and foremost. 01:48:47.119 --> 01:48:53.600 And if you're gonna have a musician on, you better at least have a little bit of familiarity with the music so that you can enjoy it, you know. 01:48:54.800 --> 01:49:00.319 And I hope it was fun because as I tell people, I hope it was as you is as fun to listen to as it was fun to make. 01:49:00.479 --> 01:49:03.840 And if that's if that's the case, then I've done my job. 01:49:04.079 --> 01:49:05.119 Yeah, excellent. 01:49:05.279 --> 01:49:07.279 All right, stick around, all right? 01:49:07.520 --> 01:49:08.800 Okay, everybody. 01:49:08.960 --> 01:49:11.119 Yeah, thank you so much for your time, Claude. 01:49:11.199 --> 01:49:12.479 I really, really appreciate it. 01:49:12.640 --> 01:49:14.319 All right, we'll see you again. 01:49:14.800 --> 01:49:18.960 All right, everyone, that was fantastic. 01:49:19.199 --> 01:49:22.640 Loved it, and I hope you guys enjoyed it as much as I did. 01:49:23.359 --> 01:49:28.560 As you know, this program is available wherever you get your podcasts and it's on YouTube. 01:49:28.960 --> 01:49:32.479 So just search the Ben Maynard program and subscribe. 01:49:32.640 --> 01:49:35.279 Last but not least, follow me on my socials. 01:49:35.359 --> 01:49:43.600 Uh, on Instagram, it's simply Ben Maynard program, all one word, or on TikTok, it is at the Ben Maynard program. 01:49:44.399 --> 01:49:45.039 That's it. 01:49:45.119 --> 01:49:45.920 We're done. 01:49:46.239 --> 01:49:48.800 This was so much fun. 01:49:49.039 --> 01:49:51.199 I really, really enjoyed this conversation. 01:49:51.279 --> 01:49:55.680 And I I know you guys uh had to have enjoyed it as well. 01:49:55.920 --> 01:49:57.600 So uh, but that's it. 01:49:57.680 --> 01:49:59.119 And I'll see you guys next time. 01:49:59.199 --> 01:49:59.600 All right. 01:49:59.760 --> 01:50:01.760 This is the Ben Maynard program. 01:50:02.239 --> 01:50:03.359 Tell a friend.