Jakson Scaling with Mycelium: How Bob Hendrikx changes the funeral industry with Living Coffins täydellinen litterointi

nice thank you very much. 00:02:15.383 --> 00:02:15.805 Very cool. 00:02:15.805 --> 00:02:16.942 Have they done that ever since? 00:02:17.362 --> 00:02:25.169 I think every year they do it, but I do think it's not like one person, it's like in five categories, so there are also five other. 00:02:25.169 --> 00:02:27.709 I don't normally say that, but now we're being honest. 00:02:27.819 --> 00:02:30.206 Yes, we're all honest here, Okay cool. 00:02:30.206 --> 00:02:34.608 Yeah very nice, very nice, so I'm really excited to hear your journey. 00:02:34.608 --> 00:02:36.139 We've met on multiple occasions. 00:02:36.139 --> 00:02:40.043 You've actually spoken at, I think, fuck Up Nights during Upstream Festival. 00:02:40.043 --> 00:02:44.229 You were at the On a 0 Team event, so we've seen each other briefly many times. 00:02:44.229 --> 00:02:46.334 But now it's time to finally dive into your story. 00:02:46.334 --> 00:02:50.724 We'll start with four statements that you can answer with true or false. 00:02:50.724 --> 00:02:51.385 Are you ready? 00:02:52.027 --> 00:02:53.211 Oh yes, let's do it. 00:02:54.920 --> 00:02:57.206 I'm a designer first, entrepreneur second. 00:02:57.990 --> 00:03:00.963 Oh my God, this keeps me up at night, but I do think. 00:03:01.003 --> 00:03:08.106 Designer first yes, Within four months after coming up with the idea, I buried the first body in a mycelium coffin. 00:03:08.106 --> 00:03:13.628 Yes, true, running a company together with your fiancé is a bad idea. 00:03:13.628 --> 00:03:18.409 False, and the final one dead people scare the shit out of me. 00:03:21.861 --> 00:03:22.424 At first. 00:03:22.424 --> 00:03:24.463 Yes, Now I'm at ease with it. 00:03:24.764 --> 00:03:26.288 Okay, okay, so you've learned over time. 00:03:26.288 --> 00:03:26.811 There we go. 00:03:26.811 --> 00:03:28.825 Maybe start with your origin story. 00:03:28.825 --> 00:03:39.650 Can you explain the inspiration behind Loop Biotech and then, I think, your journey that led to creating the world's first living coffin. 00:03:39.849 --> 00:03:44.431 Yeah, of course I was studying at the Delft University of Technology architecture. 00:03:44.431 --> 00:03:57.747 I just got back from sort of a gap year turning a broken down house into self-sufficient home in detroit, where you bought a home for a thousand dollars and I came back feeling a little bit depressed because I was like, okay, we're gonna save the world. 00:03:57.788 --> 00:04:00.961 climate change is coming and all we can think of is more solar panels. 00:04:00.961 --> 00:04:02.425 Like this is not fundamental. 00:04:02.425 --> 00:04:11.810 So I was a mission I want to create a new generation of architecture back then that we could plant, that could grow, that was fully alive so living architecture. 00:04:11.810 --> 00:04:23.968 So I went into that, did a material research on like how coral grows, how bees build their homes, and I stumbled upon mycelium mushrooms and I learned how fast you can grow materials from it. 00:04:23.968 --> 00:04:34.144 And at that point I was graduating and I built like a living home, one to two scale, presenting it at the dutch design week okay, in eindhoven, right. 00:04:34.185 --> 00:04:40.011 That's the place where, yeah, yeah, all designers come together in eindhoven and then somebody came to me like, hey, bob, what, uh? 00:04:40.011 --> 00:04:42.521 What happens actually when my uh, when my grandma dies? 00:04:42.521 --> 00:04:45.610 I was like, yeah, my psyllium is a root structure of mushrooms. 00:04:45.610 --> 00:04:47.425 They're the world's biggest recyclers. 00:04:47.425 --> 00:04:53.247 They can turn dead organic matter into new life and actually give it to the other root systems. 00:04:53.247 --> 00:04:55.685 And while I was saying this like, oh my God. 00:04:56.327 --> 00:04:57.009 It was the epiphany. 00:04:57.220 --> 00:05:05.884 That was really the epiphany and I was like, okay, the mycelium wants to live under the ground, they want to recycle, help the soil. 00:05:05.884 --> 00:05:07.011 And what is a product beneath the soil? 00:05:07.011 --> 00:05:07.553 It's a coffin. 00:05:07.553 --> 00:05:10.709 So then it was like, boom, we got to do the coffin. 00:05:10.709 --> 00:05:16.802 But I was really scared at first because, yeah, a coffin, it's not really that. 00:05:16.802 --> 00:05:18.488 You think, oh, let's design a coffin. 00:05:18.488 --> 00:05:27.471 And my friends then, like they did normal jobs and especially in that early stage that you're really really insecure, you don't have much funds like this. 00:05:27.471 --> 00:05:29.033 This was a life decision for me. 00:05:29.033 --> 00:05:37.725 So I said to myself I'm going to do this one year and if I bury someone in one year, I'll continue okay and then that happened after four months. 00:05:37.745 --> 00:05:39.610 So it's like, okay, hell, yeah, let's continue. 00:05:39.711 --> 00:05:42.043 Yeah, so you set the target of a year and you did it in four months. 00:05:42.043 --> 00:05:43.005 It's's really interesting. 00:05:43.005 --> 00:05:45.892 I think we can learn a lot from taking it. 00:05:45.892 --> 00:05:53.526 Not only examples from nature, but also using nature to create products right, Because that's what sets you on this path and then lets you end up with the coffins. 00:05:53.526 --> 00:05:55.706 Whatever happened to the idea of the house? 00:05:55.706 --> 00:05:57.185 Did somebody else pick that up? 00:05:58.761 --> 00:05:59.685 Not that I'm aware of. 00:05:59.685 --> 00:06:00.925 I still believe in it. 00:06:00.925 --> 00:06:09.178 You can grow so many products with mycelium, yeah, but definitely looking at the market and the product market fits the coffin. 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:09.279 Yeah. 00:06:09.300 --> 00:06:11.107 Because I wanted to keep the organism alive. 00:06:11.288 --> 00:06:11.507 Okay. 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:14.665 And if you want to do that in architecture, you have like building regulations. 00:06:14.706

--> 00:06:16.505 Right, and your house changes over time. 00:06:16.968 --> 00:06:18.545 Exactly so, a little bit more impractical. 00:06:18.545 --> 00:06:24.004 And a coffin like from a design perspective it should decay. 00:06:24.004 --> 00:06:27.392 It's not the case right now, because people like to build coffins that never decay. 00:06:28.120 --> 00:06:29.848 So it made sense, nice. 00:06:29.848 --> 00:06:40.589 So actually, this product really fits with the structure of the mycelium and for those who have never seen mycelium or have no idea what we're talking about, maybe briefly, because it's the roots that are growing right. 00:06:40.589 --> 00:06:42.988 So can you just briefly explain how that works? 00:06:43.259 --> 00:06:43.887 Yeah, it's how it works. 00:06:43.887 --> 00:06:44.271 Yeah, so what we do, growing right. 00:06:44.271 --> 00:06:45.153 So, uh, can you just briefly explain how that works. 00:06:45.153 --> 00:06:45.848 Yeah, it's uh how it works, yeah, yeah. 00:06:45.848 --> 00:06:48.954 So what we do, um, it's almost like baking a bread. 00:06:48.954 --> 00:06:50.057 That's sort of the process. 00:06:50.057 --> 00:06:54.706 So we're more, uh yeah, bakery as I'd say that we do in our growing facility. 00:06:54.726 --> 00:06:58.324 So it's like you have a mold, you fill it up with, uh, raw material. 00:06:58.324 --> 00:07:01.415 We use, for example, upcycled hemp fibers. 00:07:01.415 --> 00:07:04.464 Okay, but it could be anything what they like to eat. 00:07:04.464 --> 00:07:06.250 Yeah, then you add it. 00:07:06.250 --> 00:07:26.642 Actually, it's called inoculate it with mycelium okay and then the organism starts feeding the substrate and while it's feeding it takes seven days it's creating like a three-dimensional network of all these tiny fibers yeah thereby sort of gluing everything together cool and if you stop that process at some point, you have like a hard and sturdy material. 00:07:26.762 --> 00:07:27.545 Yeah, it's really nice. 00:07:27.545 --> 00:07:31.704 We'll share a picture, uh, to one of your videos, I think in the show notes, for people to check it out. 00:07:31.704 --> 00:07:33.329 But basically it now also looks. 00:07:33.329 --> 00:07:38.353 Your coffin looks like a big cocoon, almost like it's a really nice white cocoon, like shape. 00:07:38.392 --> 00:07:40.158 We did a little redesign over time. 00:07:40.238 --> 00:07:40.961 Yeah, saw that. 00:07:40.961 --> 00:07:47.783 Um, I read somewhere that you've that more than a thousand people have been buried in your coffins to date. 00:07:47.783 --> 00:07:48.805 Maybe that's already more. 00:07:48.805 --> 00:07:53.848 Um, and you also signed a partnership with dela, which is, I think, one of the largest funeral directors in the netherlands. 00:07:53.848 --> 00:08:00.262 Maybe can you talk us through what has been your go-to-market strategy and then, more importantly, how has that evolved over time? 00:08:00.843 --> 00:08:01.684 yeah, definitely. 00:08:01.684 --> 00:08:03.107 Um. 00:08:03.107 --> 00:08:11.665 So, starting at the beginning, uh, I had this little prototype and I was like, okay, I just need to go to funeral uh entrepreneurs and see, like, what they think, and they were very enthusiastic. 00:08:11.665 --> 00:08:13.754 So I knew, okay, hey, there's something up here, yes. 00:08:13.754 --> 00:08:16.666 But then, looking in the funeral industry, it's pretty closed. 00:08:16.666 --> 00:08:24.944 It's a high margin market and, yeah, especially if you're an outsider, you you have no idea how the business model works a high margin market is good if you bring a product in right. 00:08:25.305 --> 00:08:31.468 Yeah, from a product perspective it's good, and especially since mycelium is like chapter one of the technology, so it is more expensive. 00:08:31.468 --> 00:08:37.091 Okay, so also that was of course from the business perspective a good market to dive into um. 00:08:37.832 --> 00:08:42.225 and then we had to make the choice, sort of like, hey, are we going to go b2c or b2B? 00:08:42.225 --> 00:08:50.347 And we learned that people don't really often purchase a coffin via a web shop, so we were a little bit early with that. 00:08:50.347 --> 00:08:52.846 And of course this new generation like why are they not buying it? 00:08:52.846 --> 00:08:58.826 But then realizing, yeah, people of 70 don't often use the internet anyway, so we switched to B2B. 00:08:58.826 --> 00:08:59.128 More. 00:08:59.128 --> 00:09:02.470 And now we have a good mix of B2C and B2B. 00:09:02.850 --> 00:09:10.326 Okay, and that's working out for us okay, nice, um, so then you talk. 00:09:10.326 --> 00:09:16.907 We just talked briefly also on how it's being produced, right, and and I saw some videos of what it looks like in your facility as you're scaling up. 00:09:16.907 --> 00:09:24.785 Anybody doing any kind of production work knows that there's significant investments going into infrastructure, resources, etc. 00:09:24.785 --> 00:09:31.796 Can you talk us through how you scale up this production process to get to the next level? 00:09:33.764 --> 00:09:36.351 Yeah, it was pretty hard, to be honest. 00:09:36.351 --> 00:09:39.860 We started at yes Delft, the incubator next to the TU Delft University. 00:09:39.860 --> 00:09:43.910 There we had a very small room of, I would say, 30 square meters. 00:09:43.910 --> 00:09:49.467 People from yes Del delft, if they're listening, they know the stories about coffins lying everywhere. 00:09:49.467 --> 00:09:55.232 So at some point we had to move out and now we're in a facility of 1200 square meters. 00:09:55.232 --> 00:10:11.129 Yeah, and the thing, it's all funding related, because in the end you know exactly which system you want, but it's 200 000 so you don't have the money, okay so you're gonna diy something, um, which is pretty shitty, yeah, but yeah, it sort of is with baby steps. 00:10:11.230 --> 00:10:18.070 So we went in and like, whenever we had money, we tried to buy the

best possible option. 00:10:18.070 --> 00:10:25.133 Yeah, and then skill, and I'm now more talking of technology like mixers, cleaning, cleaning machines, climate technology, that kind of stuff. 00:10:26.302 --> 00:10:35.229 And then I think when we first talked, you also talked about kind of trying to figure out everything yourself versus using more proven methodologies. 00:10:35.229 --> 00:10:36.152 What is your learning there? 00:10:36.460 --> 00:10:43.365 Yeah, so definitely in the beginning we had the idea that we were the best in the world at everything Of course yeah, as a solid founder does. 00:10:43.365 --> 00:10:57.769 And we learned quickly that it is not super smart to try to develop all the technology yourself, but rather pinpoint on like, hey, we're going to specialize in this and all the other stuff we're going to how do you say it Buy? 00:10:57.990 --> 00:10:58.110 Yeah. 00:10:58.379 --> 00:11:23.176 So we made a big switch from make to buy, which was a really hard moment in our company because we were relatively young, our revenue was low and we had a lot of youngsters in from the Technical University of Delft most of us friends or via our network and they were like, yeah shit, this is not going to work out, we have too many people on the bus and actually we just don't need to figure out how to build the machine ourselves, we just need to purchase it. 00:11:23.176 --> 00:11:36.750 So that was a hard moment for us and we had to let go, unfortunately, of a lot of team members and then switch to more experienced team members and also more buying technology instead of making it Okay. 00:11:37.620 --> 00:11:38.725 What did you learn from that process? 00:11:40.740 --> 00:11:44.410 That hiring is the most important thing for a founder. 00:11:44.671 --> 00:11:44.871 Yeah. 00:11:45.019 --> 00:11:47.408 And you always hear it and you're like fuck off man. 00:11:47.408 --> 00:12:00.809 I don't like hiring Screw, that it can be that hard, but it's really hard because the thing that I learned is like the company we're building is changing, you need to recruit for that change and when the person starts that you're recruiting, the company already changed Right. 00:12:01.541 --> 00:12:18.081 And I also learned that the best mix is young talent and proven experience okay ajax 2018 even though I'm a psv fan okay, okay, a mix of young youngsters and experienced people, and then you get them in. 00:12:18.081 --> 00:12:19.725 Do you have vacancies at this moment? 00:12:20.427 --> 00:12:21.308 yeah, we have. 00:12:21.308 --> 00:12:32.640 Uh, I think there are now four open and uh like next week two or three will follow ah, okay, well, and next week, because you closed a funding round right, so let's dive into that right now. 00:12:32.660 --> 00:12:36.432 That's really nice, it's a really good moment to start in that's yeah, so come, come in. 00:12:36.432 --> 00:12:39.749 You'll find the the jobs on on the website of look biotech. 00:12:39.749 --> 00:12:43.865 You can also find them on hackyourcareercom, where we combine all startup jobs in the region. 00:12:43.865 --> 00:12:45.267 I think there's about 750 jobs. 00:12:45.267 --> 00:12:46.129 Go check it out. 00:12:46.129 --> 00:12:55.131 Um, let's talk about that funding part because, um, well, you had sean harris and peter schoon already as your investors. 00:12:55.131 --> 00:13:00.764 Um, you're now raising or you finished raising a 2 million crowdfunding. 00:13:00.764 --> 00:13:09.850 But I'm going to challenge you Because I read investors really found their way into what we call mushroom tech, right, infinite Roots. 00:13:09.850 --> 00:13:11.586 You probably know them German Scalab. 00:13:11.586 --> 00:13:15.466 They raised 58 million for their technology. 00:13:15.466 --> 00:13:17.285 Mogu raised 11 million. 00:13:17.285 --> 00:13:21.105 So my question is are you thinking big enough and what are you going to do with the 2 million? 00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:22.907 Nice, I like the question. 00:13:22.907 --> 00:13:33.278 The answer is is sometimes I think we don't think big enough um, but we're starting to learn um and the question? 00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:36.436 sorry, it wasn't the second question, I was so what are you going to do with the two million? 00:13:36.436 --> 00:13:37.600 So how are you going to use that? 00:13:37.660 --> 00:13:38.903 yeah, yeah, um. 00:13:38.903 --> 00:13:40.486 So what are we going to do with two million? 00:13:40.486 --> 00:13:46.900 Is we're gonna increase revenue in the netherlands and also lure a little bit towards europe. 00:13:46.900 --> 00:13:50.533 So we hired two experienced sales, uh, persons. 00:13:50.533 --> 00:14:01.216 One is familiar with the funeral industry so he has a lot of contacts, so that will help a lot because it's a it's a different breed of people and it's super nice to have an expert in and the other one will focus on international. 00:14:01.216 --> 00:14:04.188 So that will happen and furthermore, we'll scale up our factory. 00:14:04.188 --> 00:14:14.729 So we're going to buy a lot of machinery to automate, to make the products better, cheaper and faster, and that sort of is the main thing we're focusing on. 00:14:14.749 --> 00:14:20.840 Okay, and for those that have invested, you could see this also in the prospectus and also see how you're making money now, right? 00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:24.261 So what is the plan on scaling over the next couple of years? 00:14:24.261 --> 00:14:25.625 What are your targets that you want to achieve? 00:14:25.625 --> 00:14:34.028 By sales right, Because basically we just said you sold more than a thousand coffins. 00:14:34.028 --> 00:14:38.947 So what's your ambition? 00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:49.950 Yeah, so the goal for this year, like from talking from now to next year, our goal is to aim for the 1 million revenue selling 1,000 coffins and 3,000 urns. 00:14:50.250 --> 00:14:50.410 Yeah. 00:14:51.520 --> 00:14:55.107 We also have another product,

forest Bands, but it's not in the KPI at the moment. 00:14:55.107 --> 00:14:59.609 So that's the goal, and if we achieve that, we hit the 1 million revenue. 00:14:59.609 --> 00:15:03.230 Yeah, you know as well, a lot of more funding doors will open. 00:15:03.230 --> 00:15:05.860 So that's also thinking big Like. 00:15:05.860 --> 00:15:09.291 If we hit that one like, our next round will be in the 10, 20 million. 00:15:09.291 --> 00:15:15.551 That's what we're aiming for, but for this phase it was too early to get that. 00:15:15.671 --> 00:15:18.437 Yeah, okay, so focusing on sales and scaling up production. 00:15:18.437 --> 00:15:29.740 Yeah, last night I also chipped in a little bit, so I'm definitely following your Welcome to the team in a little bit. 00:15:29.760 --> 00:15:31.306 so, uh, I'm definitely following your yay uh joining uh the team. 00:15:31.306 --> 00:15:34.434 Um, you talked about this already a little bit, but, um, I still want to ask the question for you personally. 00:15:34.434 --> 00:15:40.091 If you, uh, when you look at your own leadership capabilities, how have you changed over time? 00:15:40.091 --> 00:15:45.812 And you, you paused a little bit on uh I a designer or an entrepreneur how have you evolved as a leader? 00:15:47.922 --> 00:15:50.210 I think as a leader, I'm a builder. 00:15:50.210 --> 00:16:00.089 I like to run up front and try to inspire and how do you say it make people energetic, like enthusiasm. 00:16:00.089 --> 00:16:11.225 I have some lengths that sometimes I can be a little bit stubborn and sometimes I can go a little bit too hard. 00:16:11.807 --> 00:16:11.986 Okay. 00:16:12.495 --> 00:16:14.263 So that doesn't help. 00:16:15.678 --> 00:16:17.975 Well, it's the prerequisite for a good founder, right? 00:16:17.975 --> 00:16:19.961 Be a bit stubborn and go really fast and hard. 00:16:19.961 --> 00:16:20.524 Yeah, true. 00:16:20.634 --> 00:16:23.024 But it's important to bring everybody along. 00:16:23.024 --> 00:16:28.221 So I learn a lot about getting people involved, learn a lot about letting go. 00:16:28.221 --> 00:16:39.181 I can be a little bit yeah my way, I would like to see it my way, but also more admiring what people have to offer and be more flexible. 00:16:39.181 --> 00:16:40.681 So a little bit more of letting go. 00:16:40.681 --> 00:16:51.001 I also learned that if you just make good KPIs, letting go is a lot easier because together you've taken the dot on the horizon and you both have the same expectation. 00:16:51.001 --> 00:16:53.340 So that's what really helps. 00:16:53.340 --> 00:16:59.123 And what also really helps is having a fellow founder who is also your fiance and is really good at all the other stuff. 00:16:59.384 --> 00:16:59.583 Yes. 00:17:00.216 --> 00:17:02.965 So together I think we're a good team, yeah. 00:17:03.596 --> 00:17:05.021 Well, let's talk about that elephant in the room. 00:17:05.021 --> 00:17:10.361 I'm not calling your fiance an elephant, but she's the elephant

in the room here, because that is interesting, right. 00:17:10.361 --> 00:17:13.721 Elephant in the room here, um, because that is interesting, right. 00:17:13.721 --> 00:17:14.644 So you were developing as a, as a founder. 00:17:14.644 --> 00:17:18.942 You were a single founder, yeah, and, as we all know well, investors don't like single founder companies, uh. 00:17:18.942 --> 00:17:19.724 So you get the advice. 00:17:19.724 --> 00:17:24.079 But then the other thing is don't start a business with your wife, or soon to be wife. 00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:26.023 So tell us how did that come? 00:17:26.023 --> 00:17:27.287 How did that story happen? 00:17:27.287 --> 00:17:29.417 And then I'm really curious how do you make it work? 00:17:30.180 --> 00:17:31.201 yeah, I was just. 00:17:31.201 --> 00:17:35.249 I went on a business trip with YesDel to San Francisco. 00:17:35.548 --> 00:17:35.750 Yeah. 00:17:36.275 --> 00:17:42.224 And there we've seen so many things, all the VCs, and everyone was like, yeah, go big, let's go, yeah. 00:17:42.224 --> 00:17:45.763 And I was like so pumped up, but everyone's saying like you can't be a solo founder. 00:17:45.763 --> 00:17:47.561 And I'm like I am a solo founder. 00:17:47.561 --> 00:17:52.002 So I said, okay, I need a solo office, I need a find a founder. 00:17:52.182 --> 00:17:56.317 So I started dating and I dated wait, so you started dating for a founder? 00:17:56.317 --> 00:17:58.784 Yeah, okay, yeah, this is a niche style. 00:17:58.884 --> 00:18:04.731 Yeah, we started dating for a founder and I had three uh yeah, solid people, but it didn't feel like the click. 00:18:04.731 --> 00:18:10.128 I couldn't really trust them and that was more probably my issue than their issue. 00:18:10.128 --> 00:18:16.945 So at some time I was walking with a coach higher from yes, delft and he told me like bob, what are you looking for in a founder? 00:18:16.945 --> 00:18:18.732 I'm like I'm so tired. 00:18:18.732 --> 00:18:20.017 I just look somebody. 00:18:20.017 --> 00:18:25.816 Look, I'm looking for somebody, just like my girlfriend and it's like bob, why didn't you ask her? 00:18:25.816 --> 00:18:26.798 Like no way. 00:18:26.798 --> 00:18:30.410 And then I asked her and we started working as sort of a test. 00:18:30.410 --> 00:18:39.961 I mean, I always joke like she's now, she was already working, but now she's actually getting paid because you know when you're at home and you're talking to your fiance or girlfriend or whatever. 00:18:40.942 --> 00:18:46.768 Um, so, yeah, then it happened and it was a super nice click and um, yeah, it really is a lifestyle. 00:18:46.768 --> 00:18:56.575 It's really intense yeah but for people who know me, they would understand that Bob Likes Intense so yeah, it's nice and the personal click was already there. 00:18:56.654 --> 00:19:04.406 But now there's also a business click, but then still I'm curious how do you switch off? 00:19:04.406 --> 00:19:06.844 Because I can imagine so. 00:19:06.844 --> 00:19:07.674 I'll give you a personal example. 00:19:07.674 --> 00:19:20.484 The reason I don't work with my wife is I'd like to keep these things separate, but she still advises me on many occasions, so technically she's also probably co-founder of whatever I do um, but we didn't ever formalize it. 00:19:20.484 --> 00:19:21.429 So how do you? 00:19:21.429 --> 00:19:24.742 How do you make that work in written, because I think people out there are listening. 00:19:24.742 --> 00:19:26.008 Yeah, how do you do it? 00:19:26.470 --> 00:19:29.538 I think what really helps is that we're really different persons. 00:19:29.538 --> 00:19:35.520 So where I'm more external focused, she's more internal focus in the company. 00:19:35.520 --> 00:19:46.500 Yeah, so she is really good with, uh, the finance, the operations, and those are the things that really do not give me energy and the things that, sorry that I'm doing is not giving her energy. 00:19:46.500 --> 00:19:59.685 So also already by nature there is a really good deviation, and at home we have sort of a rule that whenever we're home we don't talk about work unless you sort of have to check in. 00:19:59.685 --> 00:20:08.842 So if I have an issue, if I check my email at 11 o'clock which sometimes happens bad bob, don't do it then I'm in bed and like, oh shit, I feel really, yeah, fucked. 00:20:08.842 --> 00:20:12.449 And then I ask her like hey, I read something. 00:20:12.449 --> 00:20:15.840 I feel really annoyed, can I tell you this? 00:20:15.840 --> 00:20:19.118 And then sometimes the answer is yes, sometimes the answer is no. 00:20:19.901 --> 00:20:20.683 Oh well, that's strong. 00:20:21.154 --> 00:20:23.442 When it's no, then the passive aggression comes in. 00:20:23.442 --> 00:20:25.105 Yeah, oh, wow. 00:20:25.634 --> 00:20:30.723 That's sort of how we make the rules, but yeah, sometimes it is not possible. 00:20:30.723 --> 00:20:31.727 And it's just really shitty. 00:20:31.727 --> 00:20:33.521 Yeah yeah, sometimes it is, it is not possible and it's just really shitty. 00:20:33.521 --> 00:20:40.755 Yeah, so it does have disadvantages, but the advantage is really nice, like you're always with your favorite person in the world there you go yeah and all the adventures you make together. 00:20:40.755 --> 00:20:46.586 It's like all the things we experience with, like the fundraising with the investors with the team. 00:20:46.968 --> 00:20:48.174 Yeah, yeah, she's really. 00:20:48.174 --> 00:20:49.615 Yeah, you're really close to each other. 00:20:49.615 --> 00:20:52.204 And then how does the and maybe we should ask your team. 00:20:52.204 --> 00:20:54.152 But how did the team respond? 00:20:54.152 --> 00:20:58.625 Or how do people respond if they know that you're soon to be married? 00:21:00.296 --> 00:21:01.240 They want to come to the wedding. 00:21:01.339 --> 00:21:02.242 Okay, that's a good sign. 00:21:04.316 --> 00:21:05.320 Yeah, how did they respond? 00:21:05.320 --> 00:21:08.480

We always we don't really in the beginning, we always tell it up front. 00:21:08.741 --> 00:21:08.942 Okay. 00:21:09.275 --> 00:21:12.243 But now we don't even tell it and it's just like, yeah, it's a fact. 00:21:12.505 --> 00:21:12.645 Yeah. 00:21:13.596 --> 00:21:23.041 They can hear us sort of kibble of it too, because with your fiance you're talking differently than with your team members, so sometimes we see them a little bit laughing like. 00:21:23.221 --> 00:21:24.717 Yeah, yeah yeah. 00:21:24.717 --> 00:21:40.364 But it's interesting, the most durable companies in the world are family-owned businesses and I know that in the tech industry we've always been looking for you know these typical founder types, et cetera, so maybe you're setting a new trend here for making sustainable businesses that are run as a family business. 00:21:40.483 --> 00:21:44.299 That would be cool Because also in the funeral industry it's like super common to have a family business. 00:21:44.299 --> 00:21:46.144 Yeah, definitely, yeah, yeah. 00:21:46.404 --> 00:21:47.796 Wow, okay, Well we found a link here. 00:21:47.796 --> 00:21:51.844 Uh, very nice, um, cool, um. 00:21:51.844 --> 00:21:56.096 Before we go to the break, final question um, what has been your biggest fuck up to date? 00:22:02.726 --> 00:22:27.723 he's now going through all of his fuck ups all the fuck ups like this, this, this, I think the from a business perspective is, uh, trying to, yes, so not early enough, switching from making to buying so trying to reinvent the wheel yeah yeah, it was, I think the looking back and also, um, from a team perspective, not hiring experienced people uh, soon enough. 00:22:27.784 --> 00:22:40.838 But yeah, you're, you're super young so yeah, you don't have the experience, but yeah, that's what I would advise younger ones like hire the expensive persons earlier uh, but then how do you make sure that you can pay? 00:22:40.878 --> 00:22:45.442 I mean because I think in the early days you also don't have the money right, yeah so how would you do that in hindsight? 00:22:45.561 --> 00:22:46.084 what would you do? 00:22:46.585 --> 00:22:51.053 in hindsight, what is really nice right now is the crowdfunding campaign that people have shares. 00:22:51.053 --> 00:22:56.988 In the beginning was also like super hectic, like oh no, then people have shares in your company and they leave, etc. 00:22:56.988 --> 00:23:12.102 And what I really learned from uh, from sean, from sean harris, is really having trust and uh, building together yeah and uh benefiting together, right, so that's, that's what we're more and more implementing, yeah yeah, and then with shareholders you can always do vesting right. 00:23:12.142 --> 00:23:14.366 So for those, that have never heard about that. 00:23:14.366 --> 00:23:14.788 Look it up. 00:23:14.788 --> 00:23:19.882 But making sure that you invest your equity over, you get your equity over time if you perform. 00:23:19.882 --> 00:23:27.422 Okay, good yeah hiring the right people as soon as possible, as soon as you can, and then also the part of the production. 00:23:27.422 --> 00:23:30.163 I think those are great pieces of experience. 00:23:30.163 --> 00:23:34.636 Slash advice, thank you for that. 00:23:34.656 --> 00:23:35.719 We'll go to a quick break and then we'll be back. 00:23:35.719 --> 00:23:37.020 You're listening to the podcast of Up Rotterdam. 00:23:37.020 --> 00:23:44.778 We help startups scale and grow their business by offering access to talent, access to international markets and access to capital. 00:23:44.778 --> 00:23:46.642 Curious how we can make the network work for you? 00:23:47.344 --> 00:23:56.642 Go to uprotterdamcom this podcast was made possible by the city of Rotterdam and we're back. 00:23:56.642 --> 00:24:09.784 Wow, it's so great to listen to your story how you started and how you got where you are today, and I think it should be an inspiration also for other designers or bio designers to see how you can make a scalable product with smart people around you and some great investors. 00:24:09.784 --> 00:24:15.178 Let's talk how you unwind, because entrepreneurship is tough. 00:24:15.178 --> 00:24:19.596 It's hard work, uh, especially when you're building with your partner. 00:24:19.596 --> 00:24:28.897 I suppose, um, can you share any specific habits or rituals that you have, uh to say, to stay sane mentally and physically? 00:24:30.320 --> 00:24:33.125 um, yeah, definitely, um, yeah. 00:24:33.125 --> 00:24:36.858 So first acknowledgement it is hard, it is uh lonely sometimes. 00:24:36.858 --> 00:24:38.162 You have the highs, you have the lows. 00:24:38.162 --> 00:24:45.707 Um, I've written some texts from back in the days to really show how I felt. 00:24:45.707 --> 00:24:51.622 I never posted them, but I have them like a diary, yeah, so I can look back later on like holy shit, shit, I was really down. 00:24:51.942 --> 00:24:52.163 Nice. 00:24:52.163 --> 00:24:54.828 So do you do kind of daily journaling, or was it just? 00:24:55.015 --> 00:24:57.760 No, it was just some time Okay, just some time when I felt really down. 00:24:57.760 --> 00:25:00.623 But what do I do to keep sane? 00:25:00.623 --> 00:25:11.124 I've invested a lot in learning about the habits, so I did like the whole Tony Robbins package. 00:25:11.365 --> 00:25:11.665 Oh, wow. 00:25:11.895 --> 00:25:15.917 I like America yeah he's a little bit extreme, but a little bit. 00:25:16.117 --> 00:25:18.002 Yeah, he's very extreme. 00:25:18.103 --> 00:25:25.006 Yeah, so I did all the courses like literally in the first year of loop I did all the courses like everything on finance, health, etc. 00:25:25.006 --> 00:25:25.667 That really helped. 00:25:25.667 --> 00:25:32.365 From that moment I went vegetarian, I went non-alcoholic, um, so that really helped. 00:25:32.365 --> 00:25:38.307 I started working out a lot, uh, which is often hard because if you have meetings till 11, yeah what are you going to

work? 00:25:38.307 --> 00:25:39.412 Um? 00:25:39.412 --> 00:25:40.797 The classic cold showers. 00:25:40.797 --> 00:25:44.307 It's going really well every day, um, even in the weekends. 00:25:44.307 --> 00:25:45.991 And meditation. 00:25:45.991 --> 00:25:50.082 Meditation now is a little bit harder because I'm getting really impatient. 00:25:50.082 --> 00:25:57.707 In the beginning I did a 10 day silent course in austria at the beginning of loop at the beginning of loop I was on fire. 00:25:57.727 --> 00:26:00.144 I was like I'm gonna do this, this, this 10 days in silence. 00:26:00.144 --> 00:26:04.441 My wife did three days in silence and I it almost killed me because she was living with me. 00:26:05.103 --> 00:26:12.038 So anyway, long story sidetrack, but 10 days in silence, yeah, wow and then, at the end of the day, I do gratitude and wins. 00:26:12.759 --> 00:26:12.900 Oh. 00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:13.981 So say like five wins. 00:26:13.981 --> 00:26:15.323 But these are the things. 00:26:15.323 --> 00:26:17.945 Sometimes they don't happen. 00:26:18.125 --> 00:26:18.426 Okay. 00:26:18.606 --> 00:26:19.827 Because yeah, life happens. 00:26:20.328 --> 00:26:25.265 But this almost sounds like one of those perfect Instagram influencers. 00:26:25.265 --> 00:26:27.663 This is really a lot that you are doing. 00:26:27.663 --> 00:26:28.957 This is actually my bare minimum. 00:26:29.077 --> 00:26:34.708 Wow, I have a list of like sort of a 20-20 amount list of things I want to do. 00:26:34.748 --> 00:26:35.588 I keep track of them. 00:26:36.156 --> 00:26:37.121 I give them like numbers. 00:26:37.121 --> 00:26:38.882 So if it's green, it's really my habit. 00:26:39.498 --> 00:26:43.694 So, for example, the cold shower, that's so easy, and it's also relatively simple to implement, right? 00:26:43.694 --> 00:26:45.036 Because you just shower anyway. 00:26:45.036 --> 00:26:45.935 Yeah, put it cold. 00:26:46.596 --> 00:26:51.377 But then, for example, some things that are a little bit more difficult, like the gratitude at the end of the day. 00:26:51.377 --> 00:26:54.079 Sometimes at the end of the day, it's like hey guys, everyone and you just forget it. 00:26:54.140 --> 00:26:56.901 Yeah, yeah, yeah, nice Working on that. 00:26:56.901 --> 00:26:57.540 Yeah, great list. 00:26:57.540 --> 00:27:00.041 And then congratulations on the zero alcohol. 00:27:00.041 --> 00:27:00.883 For how long now? 00:27:00.883 --> 00:27:08.826 Yeah, three years, Three years okay, I must admit, I probably drink, like many others, too often and too much. 00:27:08.826 --> 00:27:12.548 So what is it like to switch to Xero? 00:27:13.769 --> 00:27:15.689 From a health perspective it's really nice. 00:27:15.689 --> 00:27:18.211 From a social perspective it's really shitty. 00:27:18.211 --> 00:27:20.411 Okay, especially in the beginning. 00:27:20.411 --> 00:27:29.766 I'm coming from the Delft environment so I had like a student home et cetera, and everybody drinks and they go out on Friday and then until 10, 11, it's fun. 00:27:29.766 --> 00:27:34.806 But then you hear stories twice and you're like, okay, this is my cue. 00:27:34.806 --> 00:27:49.743 But yeah, the hardest thing is your circle of friends changes and yeah, that is sometimes really lonely, because then you don't really have the friends anymore that align with your values, but you also don't have the new ones. 00:27:49.974 --> 00:27:59.238 So, it's like hanging in between and like, yeah, yeah, but I literally never. 00:27:59.238 --> 00:27:59.578 How do you say? 00:27:59.578 --> 00:27:59.779 Look back. 00:27:59.779 --> 00:28:01.228 Sometimes I think about it, like, for example, new year, oh, shall I drink? 00:28:01.228 --> 00:28:03.999 And I'm like, no, this streak is too good yeah, it's not stopped now. 00:28:04.259 --> 00:28:12.407 No, I think, particularly when you combine it with all those other things you do right with exercise and and, uh well, the meditation, although that's, I heard, sometimes a bit tough. 00:28:12.407 --> 00:28:13.880 I find meditation really tough, by the way. 00:28:14.020 --> 00:28:16.461 I just can't do it, Only guided meditation, by the way. 00:28:16.461 --> 00:28:24.763 So I think it's the inspiration fathers right that are thinking about quitting alcohol and know what you sign up for. 00:28:24.763 --> 00:28:39.221 So your environment changes a little bit and you probably also see the changes, because then indeed a bottle is no much fun after 11 o'clock when everybody gets drunk and you're sober, yeah, okay, yeah, good insight, and maybe it would have changed if I was single oh I'm actually. 00:28:39.241 --> 00:28:47.035 Sometimes I talk with my girl oh, would this actually happen if I was single, because I had a really stable girlfriend, of course, yeah, so for me that maybe also made a little bit easier. 00:28:47.055 --> 00:28:50.086 Yeah yeah, a good point, good point, but I don't know, yeah, okay, well, so uh, we, we thought about bringing champagne here to celebrate your, uh, your win. 00:28:50.105 --> 00:28:50.788 We didn't so it was a good point. 00:28:50.807 --> 00:29:00.099 Good point, but I don't know, yeah, okay, well, so, uh, we, we thought about bringing champagne here to celebrate your uh your win we didn't, so it was a good, it was a good call um, very nice um. 00:29:00.099 --> 00:29:03.454 And then you mentioned also, final thing, you mentioned friends and people to hang out. 00:29:03.454 --> 00:29:05.240 So who do you get inspiration from? 00:29:05.240 --> 00:29:08.414 Are there other founders that you like meet up with or learn from? 00:29:09.436 --> 00:29:20.096 um, yeah, I have some founder, uh friends like yuri from peter pod, julian somnoks yeah, julian is one of the podcasts as well, okay yeah, and actually yuri will come up soon yeah we. 00:29:20.096 --> 00:29:22.482 Obviously he has some good stories, he has a very good story. 00:29:22.502 --> 00:29:23.705 He's getting better over time. 00:29:23.705 -->

00:29:25.441 So, yeah, he's writing a book really. 00:29:25.461 --> 00:29:34.569 Yeah, he should yeah, so I know them all from back in the delft days yeah um, so from the yes delft community there are some friends now from Orange Wings. 00:29:34.569 --> 00:29:39.522 They have a tribe because they invest in a lot of early stage startups, so we see them a few times per year. 00:29:39.522 --> 00:29:46.682 But then of course, you have my normal friends, which is sometimes also nice, because then it's yeah, I'm not Bob the entrepreneur, I'm just Bob. 00:29:46.983 --> 00:29:49.682 Bob, the Bob, yeah, which is also sometimes. 00:29:53.875 --> 00:29:57.104 But yeah, you can't go too deep into like, oh, the, this happened at work and it's like, yeah, okay, but you've created a circle of people around you. 00:29:57.104 --> 00:30:03.499 I think that's what we see with other founders as well is, you're working so hard, it's lonely, you're working on your own stuff, so find people around you to. 00:30:03.499 --> 00:30:06.248 Yeah well, call it friendship or call it business friendship. 00:30:06.248 --> 00:30:10.384 We strongly believe in peer connections, yeah, people helping each other out. 00:30:10.384 --> 00:30:12.700 So I think the sean harris circle is probably probably a good one, and you're also invited, of course, to the in peer connections, people helping each other out. 00:30:12.700 --> 00:30:22.762 So I think the Sean Harris circle is probably a good one, and you're also invited, of course, to the Rotterdam dinner, again this year happening at Upstream, 28th of May I'm looking at Lisette here. 00:30:22.762 --> 00:30:25.709 Yes, 28th of May, cool. 00:30:26.154 --> 00:30:29.080 So next up, final part, is that we go to the listeners' questions. 00:30:29.080 --> 00:30:32.980 It's my favorite part always because it brings in different perspectives. 00:30:32.980 --> 00:30:37.553 Um, one of them and I think you know him really well, uh, duke urbanic. 00:30:37.553 --> 00:30:41.382 I think many people know him from the delft and also the rotterdam ecosystem. 00:30:41.382 --> 00:30:42.684 He says hi. 00:30:42.684 --> 00:30:46.019 He also says, bob, you are a super creative mind. 00:30:46.019 --> 00:30:52.137 And then his question is what would you have done if those loop cocoons hadn't been feasible. 00:30:52.137 --> 00:30:54.421 In other words, what was your plan B? 00:30:55.142 --> 00:30:56.744 Ooh, what was the plan B? 00:30:56.744 --> 00:30:57.705 Nice question, dude. 00:30:57.705 --> 00:30:58.788 Thank you for asking. 00:30:58.788 --> 00:31:00.549 What was my plan B? 00:31:00.549 --> 00:31:03.737 Now? 00:31:03.737 --> 00:31:04.519 Actually really funny story. 00:31:04.519 --> 00:31:07.165 I had this idea of having a sustainable startup. 00:31:07.165 --> 00:31:21.459 So my other idea was either to go to a venture capital and learn from vcs how they do it, because I understand very early it's finance in the end, so doesn't matter really what kind of product you have, in the end it's finance. 00:31:21.499 --> 00:31:22.884 So five times why you get the money. 00:31:22.884 --> 00:31:24.169 Yeah exactly. 00:31:24.570 --> 00:31:24.672 um. 00:31:24.672 --> 00:31:30.261 So I actually almost applied for an internship while I was graduated at a VC. 00:31:30.261 --> 00:31:38.219 That was my lowest moment, but then I said, no, I'm going to do my own, which was really nice. 00:31:38.219 --> 00:31:41.000 Other things what would I have done? 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:49.422 I had some other ideas, to be honest, in the pipeline, but they were a little bit less commercial friendly. 00:31:49.422 --> 00:31:49.943 Okay. 00:31:50.977 --> 00:31:57.704 I saw your personal website where there's a lot of yeah, stuff, more design, yeah, design stuff, yeah okay, I like that angle. 00:31:57.704 --> 00:31:59.836 So see how things in life sometimes change. 00:31:59.836 --> 00:32:03.065 Change I mean in a, maybe in a parallel universe. 00:32:03.065 --> 00:32:08.967 You are now somewhere on the side to us, uh, as a vc, yeah, all right, cool, looking back by the way, that would have been a awful decision. 00:32:08.987 --> 00:32:10.088 I think you made the right decision. 00:32:10.088 --> 00:32:12.355 You, by the way, that would have been an awful decision. 00:32:12.494 --> 00:32:13.539 I think you made the right decision. 00:32:13.539 --> 00:32:22.561 You know, the one thing that VCs often forget is that we feel that also in negotiations right, you feel that one has an advantage over the other. 00:32:22.561 --> 00:32:27.425 But I always keep saying without founders, vcs have no role to play. 00:32:27.425 --> 00:32:34.246 So it really starts with the founders and with the companies that they're building, and then the VCs really should be supportive to that. 00:32:34.246 --> 00:32:40.681 And I think sometimes, when you're also at drinks, investors forget that every now and then because they think that whoever has the money has the power. 00:32:40.681 --> 00:32:45.655 But it's the founders that hold the power to their business, and I think also that should be the way. 00:32:45.655 --> 00:32:47.564 Anyway, just wanted to put that on the record. 00:32:49.857 --> 00:32:51.403 So thanks, duke, and we should catch up. 00:32:51.403 --> 00:32:53.221 It's been a long time ago, uh. 00:32:53.221 --> 00:32:55.037 Second question is from mark slagers. 00:32:55.037 --> 00:32:57.163 Uh, he is the founder of rotter swam. 00:32:57.163 --> 00:32:59.549 I know mark slagers very well. 00:32:59.549 --> 00:33:01.817 Um, he has a great question. 00:33:01.817 --> 00:33:02.761 First he compliments you. 00:33:02.761 --> 00:33:07.538 He says I'm very much inspired by your product and your journey and also by your exit strategy. 00:33:07.538 --> 00:33:10.863 Not sure if that was in the prospectus, perhaps. 00:33:10.903 --> 00:33:12.265 Yeah, it is in there. 00:33:12.826 --> 00:33:13.727 I didn't read it well enough. 00:33:13.727 --> 00:33:23.063 His

question is how do you safeguard your sustainability goals in the event of an acquisition by an organization with more economic objectives? 00:33:23.605 --> 00:33:26.121 Well played, little Bob thought of that. 00:33:26.121 --> 00:33:27.640 It's in the shareholder agreement. 00:33:28.021 --> 00:33:28.222 Okay. 00:33:28.815 --> 00:33:29.739 So there's a sentence there. 00:33:30.141 --> 00:33:30.702 And what does it say? 00:33:30.702 --> 00:33:52.368 That Loop should focus on um, I don't know, but it's, it's like related to loop should focus on sustainability and making a but if a company would be acquired, if a whole loop would be acquired by, let's say, a big corporation, would that still hold? 00:33:55.201 --> 00:34:07.145 I haven't thought this through, so, from my point of view, like I'm here for the coming years, decades, okay, so that was the only thing I could do like to settle it in. 00:34:07.145 --> 00:34:11.887 Yeah, we also of course have like the steward ownership and that kind of thing, but I haven't looked into that. 00:34:12.068 --> 00:34:12.289 Okay. 00:34:13.782 --> 00:34:14.646 Yes, that's the only thing. 00:34:15.068 --> 00:34:17.626 Okay, so basically you're just not selling so far. 00:34:18.226 --> 00:34:20.052 Yeah, yeah Just keep the company running Cool. 00:34:20.052 --> 00:34:32.409 But I think it's so aligned with our vision, like also from a commercial perspective. 00:34:32.409 --> 00:34:34.157 If somebody would acquire us and change the mission like that, that is a poor business. 00:34:34.157 --> 00:34:34.739 Yeah, it would make no sense. 00:34:34.759 --> 00:34:37.445 Yeah, okay so it's built into your core yeah core business, cool. 00:34:37.445 --> 00:34:39.931 Um, I have a really practical question. 00:34:39.931 --> 00:34:43.391 This is uh yip krama, who everybody knows because he's my son. 00:34:43.391 --> 00:34:55.347 He's 11 year old, he listens to this podcast, uh, every now and then and I told him this story and he actually remembers, uh, his grandfather passing away last year, um, and they were drawing on the cask on the coffin. 00:34:55.347 --> 00:34:59.543 So his question is can you also draw on them, like on the wooden ones? 00:34:59.885 --> 00:35:01.771 yeah, yeah, the question is yes, they're. 00:35:01.771 --> 00:35:08.992 They're white like cram cream color, um, and we also will also, uh, sell as as a service, biodegradable paint. 00:35:08.992 --> 00:35:14.704 Very good so like little children, they can paint on it, or also grown-up children can also paint on it. 00:35:14.704 --> 00:35:15.485 There you go, guilty. 00:35:15.485 --> 00:35:16.347 Yeah, I did too. 00:35:16.347 --> 00:35:17.050 Okay, great. 00:35:17.090 --> 00:35:18.172 Well, see, I thought about that. 00:35:18.172 --> 00:35:18.733 I knew that. 00:35:18.733 --> 00:35:21.608 Thank you, jip, for asking that question. 00:35:21.608 --> 00:35:22.329 See you tonight. 00:35:22.329 --> 00:35:24.766 Final question is from Roy. 00:35:24.766 --> 00:35:35.101 I don't know which roy, but his question is um looking ahead, what are the long-term goals and aspirations for loop biotech and how do you see the company evolving in the years to come? 00:35:36.224 --> 00:35:36.844 nice question. 00:35:36.844 --> 00:35:48.422 Um, our vision all the way from above is um, we're here to enrich nature and we really believe that we want to put the human remains back into the cycle of life. 00:35:49.242 --> 00:36:22.510 So, basically, we would like to turn humans, when they die, into trees yeah and right now that's not the case, because, yeah, you're in the soil, you're either cremated, there's a lot of negative footprint associated with it, and I don't know about you guys, but when I'm at a cemetery, it's not my favorite place, while nature cemetery, of course, is a forest, so why couldn't we have these nice lush parks that are also cemeteries, integrating death more into our society, which I think is a really healthy thing, because the absence of death makes it really a big thing. 00:36:23.099 --> 00:36:33.190 What I learned little sidetrack from working in this industry that the more I'm surrounded by death, the more grateful I am to be alive, so it actually makes you happier. 00:36:33.210 --> 00:36:59.889 My assumption was I'm getting depressed, I'm going to see dead people like this is not good, but the opposite is true yeah and so that is our vision, like turning, turning humans into compost and doing in the netherlands uh, doing it in europe, doing it in the Netherlands, doing it in Europe, doing it in the USA, building factories all around the world, working with local ecosystems, local mushroom species and local substrates and thereby growing this new generation of products that has a positive footprint instead of a negative footprint. 00:37:00.048 --> 00:37:03.048 Very nice and I think that's close to your strategy. 00:37:03.048 --> 00:37:06.347 And when you talk Sorry, so many questions coming out of this one. 00:37:06.347 --> 00:37:08.644 No, let's go with the first one. 00:37:08.644 --> 00:37:17.927 So, being closer to death, I think I mentioned to you briefly that in my study times I worked for Matrice Uitvaartbegeleiding. 00:37:17.927 --> 00:37:30.010 The KVK business challenge, I think we participated in and basically asked you for four months to spend time with a company, and in this case was helen teunissen from um. 00:37:30.052 --> 00:37:42.532 I saw that industry and indeed I think there's a lot of changes happening to what you're saying is um, that we should be, you know, in a way connected to death, and I think some cultures do spend more time on this than than we with their typical. 00:37:42.532 --> 00:37:49.284 I don't know anybody who's been at a typical dutch funeral with plucky cake, which is like a piece of cake, and it really goes really fast. 00:37:49.284 --> 00:37:53.411 I think there's more and more people trying to have a different experience. 00:37:53.411 --> 00:37:56.188

But then also, to your point, cemeteries need to change. 00:37:56.188 --> 00:37:57.391 So that's a big mission. 00:37:57.391 --> 00:37:58.784 Anyway, just wanted to throw that in. 00:37:58.784 --> 00:38:05.324 The real question I have is you mentioned the US and other countries, so you've been to Silicon Valley. 00:38:05.324 --> 00:38:07.510 Where is that in your strategy? 00:38:07.510 --> 00:38:09.702 When do you want to? 00:38:09.722 --> 00:38:11.123 go abroad, I think in two years. 00:38:11.123 --> 00:38:18.188 So our first goal is, of course, really have our sales and operation running in the Netherlands Already. 00:38:18.188 --> 00:38:24.264 We're working in Europe with Austria, germany, uk, and new countries will come in the coming years. 00:38:24.264 --> 00:38:38.728 But as part of her growth strategy we noticed like hey, in the USA, yeah, there's an insane market, the people are ready, the law is ready, we're already getting a lot of inquiries, so people are already wanting the product. 00:38:39.661 --> 00:38:45.626 So it's just actually a pretty simple logic decision, but then technically you would want to produce it there locally. 00:38:45.626 --> 00:38:46.822 Right Also to reduce, yeah, reduce. 00:38:46.842 --> 00:39:00.900 so the first phase and that that comes with, like from a little bit perspective, like our whole goal is to have a positive footprint, and then the reality is how you don't have money to have a positive footprint because it's just really expensive yeah sometimes you have to make a sacrifice. 00:39:00.900 --> 00:39:07.168 So in our strategy we said okay, the first initial step to go abroad is we need to ship, because we're not going to, I'm not going to. 00:39:07.559 --> 00:39:08.699 Set up a production site there. 00:39:08.820 --> 00:39:11.324 I'm not going to convince an investor like hey, give me 20 million and. 00:39:11.324 --> 00:39:11.847 I'll fix it. 00:39:11.847 --> 00:39:20.489 So first we need to have the sales from those parties and already we learned that those parties actually would like to invest themselves in those factories. 00:39:20.528 --> 00:39:20.728 Right. 00:39:21.010 --> 00:39:25.867 Because they're, For most of the times, the funeral site parties we're working with. 00:39:25.867 --> 00:39:27.311 They're the biggest in their country. 00:39:27.411 --> 00:39:29.704 Yeah, so they could actually build. 00:39:29.704 --> 00:39:30.835 They're happy to invest to set up a local version. 00:39:30.835 --> 00:39:34.489 Oh nice, so you could have a network effect, I think also there from your…. 00:39:34.610 --> 00:39:36.545 Yeah, so that's a little bit of the plan. 00:39:36.746 --> 00:39:36.947 Nice. 00:39:36.947 --> 00:39:40.708 That reminds me of the story of George Birch from Oyster Heaven. 00:39:40.708 --> 00:39:41.711 I'm not sure if you've seen him. 00:39:46.659 --> 00:39:47.568 He, him, he's also building the orange wings. 00:39:47.568 --> 00:39:51.750 Yeah, yeah, yeah, uh, we also did a podcast with

him and he also talked about how he's setting up factories in local regions to make sure that the fishermen there can put in the reefs, etc. 00:39:51.750 --> 00:39:52.911 So check out that podcast episode. 00:39:52.911 --> 00:39:54.661 It's also really interesting if you're into this topic. 00:39:54.661 --> 00:39:59.371 Uh, cool, um, it's so nice to finally dive into your story, bob. 00:39:59.371 --> 00:40:03.947 Uh, I've heard bits and pieces and obviously read every now and then, um, and followed you around. 00:40:03.947 --> 00:40:10.547 I'm now officially also part of your stock, so definitely following what you're doing. 00:40:10.547 --> 00:40:19.487 Next, keep us up to date, and I would say you probably have a lot of calls to answer from press who are calling you now. 00:40:19.487 --> 00:40:23.407 We just heard that, so we'll read all about you coming up next. 00:40:23.407 --> 00:40:24.731 Thanks for sharing your story. 00:40:24.731 --> 00:40:28.871 As always, we close off with a song that you select. 00:40:28.871 --> 00:40:31.387 Would you like to explain which song you selected and why? 00:40:31.708 --> 00:40:33.746 Yes, first of all, thanks for having me. 00:40:33.885 --> 00:40:34.548 My pleasure. 00:40:35.139 --> 00:40:39.409 I really like to talk about this stuff, so feel free to send me a message if you heard this. 00:40:39.409 --> 00:40:41.545 I had a song. 00:40:41.545 --> 00:40:45.550 It's a little bit emotional song for me. 00:40:45.550 --> 00:41:03.625 It's called Light family high and we used to uh this was maybe in somewhere in 2000, when I grew up in eindhoven with uh three older brothers so we're in total with four we used to go on holiday, winter sports, and then you always had like the cds and this was our favorite song. 00:41:03.625 --> 00:41:14.342 Um, so this reminds me of driving with my parents, like feeling safe in the back, hearing this song on our way to winter sport, which was like the highlight of the year, which still is. 00:41:14.342 --> 00:41:22.288 So sometimes when I'm either feeling really low, I put it on, or when I'm feeling really high, I also put it on. 00:41:22.288 --> 00:41:24.032 So it's a really nice song. 00:41:24.574 --> 00:41:26.099 Cool, that's a great introduction. 00:41:26.099 --> 00:41:27.242 Thanks for bringing that song. 00:41:27.242 --> 00:41:33.443 Thank you for listening, and while you're listening to the next song, please do us a favor leave a rating in the app until next time. 00:41:33.443 --> 00:41:34.244 Keep it up. 00:41:45.516 --> 00:41:48.159 When you're close to tears. 00:41:48.159 --> 00:41:48.418 Remember. 00:41:48.418 --> 00:41:52.710 Someday it'll all be over. 00:41:52.710 --> 00:42:00.112 One day we're gonna get so high. 00:42:00.112 --> 00:42:12.552 Though it's darker than December, what's ahead is a different color. 00:42:12.552 --> 00:42:31.355 One day we're gonna get so high and, at the end of the day, remember the days when we were close to the edge and we'll wonder how we made it through. 00:42:32.362 --> 00:42:43.724 And, at the end of the day, remember the way we stayed so close to the edge, and we'll remember it was me and you, cause we are gonna be forever, you and me. 00:42:43.724 --> 00:42:58.476 You will always keep me flying high in the sky of love. 00:42:58.476 --> 00:43:09.650 Don't you think it's time you started doing what we always wanted? 00:43:09.650 --> 00:43:13.286 One day we're gonna get so high. 00:43:19.702 --> 00:43:24.974 Cause even the impossible is easy. 00:43:24.974 --> 00:43:41.115 When we got each other One day we gonna get so high, high, high, high At the end of the day. 00:43:41.115 --> 00:43:52.773 Remember the days when we were close to the end and we wondered how we made it through and at the end of the day, we remember the way we stayed so close to the end. 00:43:54.563 --> 00:44:34.097 We remembered it was me and you cause we are gonna be forever, you and me you will always keep me Flying high in the sky of love High high, high, high, at the end of the day, remember the days when we were close to the end and the wonder of how we made it through. 00:44:34.097 --> 00:44:39.806 And I, at the end of the day, remember the way we stayed so close to the end. 00:44:40.902 --> 00:45:20.320 But remember it was me and you, cause we are gonna be Forever and me We'll always keep Flying high in the sky Forever and me, cause we are gonna be forever, you and me, with a whiskey flying high in the sky of love. 00:45:20.320 --> 00:45:51.903 Cause we are gonna be forever, you and me, we'll always keep it flying high in the sky of love. 00:45:51.903 --> 00:46:17.047 Thank you for watching you.