Jakson Nico Orduz from Time Manufacturing - Why Procurement Should Be Involved From Day One of Product Development täydellinen litterointi

wanna I don't wanna keep focusing on on what I've been doing. 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:16.800 Now, that said, you know, a lot of people use their MBAs to like try and pivot into a new career or a new space. 00:02:17.039 --> 00:02:17.840 I chose not to. 00:02:17.919 --> 00:02:24.400 I'm still in very much deep into strategic sourcing and and supply chain procurement uh functions within my company. 00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:28.319 Not to say that one day I won't, but for now it's it's been kind of going deeper into that. 00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:37.039 So I really took the MBA as an opportunity to to explore other things and other parts of business that I I don't think I'd I wouldn't have had any exposure to otherwise. 00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:37.840 That's amazing. 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:39.360 Can I ask, what what did you do? 00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:42.000 Did you have an internship between your first and second year? 00:02:42.319 --> 00:02:44.080 So I actually did the part-time program. 00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:45.439 I was working the whole time. 00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:48.639 Go to work, normal hours, and then 6 to 9 p.m. 00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:50.800 several days a week, I'd have to go to Kellogg. 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:56.319 You know, the the nicest thing, and funny enough, one of the things that swayed me into going to Kellogg is they actually feed you. 00:02:56.479 --> 00:02:57.039 That's great. 00:02:57.199 --> 00:02:58.479 One less thing to worry about. 00:02:58.719 --> 00:02:59.520 That's convenient. 00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:02.159 And it's also like driving distance for you, right? 00:03:02.240 --> 00:03:04.080 So yeah, it's not bad. 00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:12.879 You know, I live in uh one of the outer neighborhoods of Chicago itself, and well, Kellogg is downtown, the the Weebolt campus downtown on Chicago Avenue. 00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:14.240 So it's it's manageable. 00:03:14.560 --> 00:03:15.599 Makes a ton of sense. 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:16.639 I'm kind of curious. 00:03:16.719 --> 00:03:21.840 Like, did when you were in your MBA, I mean, how many folks were coming from the supply chain procurement world? 00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:26.000 Were there other people like being like, Nico, like how do I get into this space? 00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:28.960 Or was it like totally foreign to people? 00:03:29.199 --> 00:03:30.879 Was it all mostly marketing folks? 00:03:31.199 --> 00:03:38.240 There's a little bit of everything, but yeah, I got uh you still got a lot of blank stares when I said, you know, I'm in strategic sourcing, you know, like what do you do? 00:03:38.479 --> 00:03:39.599 There was a little bit of everything. 00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:44.479 There were some engineers, there were some people in sales, folks in marketing, a lot of broad backgrounds. 00:03:44.560 --> 00:03:46.159 I think that was one of the best parts about it. 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:54.560 Just so many different people from so many different areas and and in different stages of

their careers, too, trying to um either pivot or or just broaden horizons, right? 00:03:54.639 --> 00:03:55.439 Like I was trying to do. 00:03:55.520 --> 00:03:59.360 A little bit everything, but no, it definitely wasn't overrepresented in like supply chain. 00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:06.719 There are some programs that are definitely more oriented toward it, like Michigan State, of course, you know, yeah, very, very supply chain heavy. 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:13.039 MIT has actually a great supply chain and logistics program, but it's more like the mathy side as I understand it. 00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:15.599 But I I knew some professors there at different times. 00:04:15.759 --> 00:04:18.000 So you took some marketing though while you were at Kellogg. 00:04:18.160 --> 00:04:18.319 Yeah. 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:18.800 I did. 00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:25.920 And and this might be like asking you to recall ancient knowledge, but do you remember anything that you learned from these marketing programs? 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:28.240 And I'm to thread the needle one step further. 00:04:28.399 --> 00:04:35.759 Like, is there anything from marketing that you feel like you've been able to apply to the world of procurement in your current job? 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:40.720 I know that's like a big question, so I I'm just kind of curious if we can riff on it, you know? 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:45.279 I'll tell you, I'm not gonna remember specific examples or even who the professor was, probably. 00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:50.480 Yeah, I mean, we I absolutely think I do use a lot of those things that I learned in Kellogg every day. 00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:52.959 I think in just in the way you present yourself, right? 00:04:53.120 --> 00:05:06.879 And the way you present your ideas, once you've kind of been exposed to that train of thought of, okay, it isn't just the simple supply chain question or equation of what not simple, but the rigid kind of supply chain equation of when is it going to be here and how much is it gonna cost me, right? 00:05:06.959 --> 00:05:08.160 There there's much more to it. 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:14.639 And then the way that you present that to stakeholders internally is a very different conversation than just, hey, here are the numbers. 00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:24.720 It it kind of gives you some angles into okay, hearts and minds of convincing people to do what you already know is right based on the numbers that you as a supply chain professional really understand. 00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:27.759 And that someone else in sales is gonna be like, I don't care about that. 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:30.160 I just want to know if this is good for me to sell more. 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:32.399 I think it really helped me think from that lens. 00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:38.240 I took a few entrepreneurial classes actually while I was at Kellogg, and I thought those were those were really interesting. 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:40.959 Like I took entrepreneurial sales for one thing. 00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:43.839 That is one professor I do remember very, very fondly. 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:45.519 His name is uh Craig Wardman. 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:54.800 He's done a ton of work at Kellogg to really put forward kind of a sales-driven curriculum, not just in entrepreneurship, but just sales in general. 00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:59.360 Speaking of how sales can be sometimes the the untaught skill. 00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:10.720 Few, if any, don't quote me, but sales bachelor's degrees or or or master's degrees or or any sort of formal education out there that really says, hey, come here, we're gonna teach you how to sell, right? 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:11.439 It's a big gap. 00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:16.879 And I think Kellogg and and Craig uh in particular, and Craig has several colleagues now. 00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:18.240 I think the program has expanded. 00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:23.360 Uh, he collaborates with other professors there too, is really putting the effort into expanding that. 00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:24.079 Amazing. 00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:24.240 Yeah. 00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:29.680 I'm kind of curious, like, there's been a few folks I've known in the procurement space that have had a sales background. 00:06:29.759 --> 00:06:30.560 It's kind of interesting. 00:06:30.639 --> 00:06:34.800 I'm thinking of, you know, just top of mind, Eugene Galdi from Arcsada. 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:39.360 He's always telling his teams like you're always selling and they're they're procurement folks. 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:42.319 The other is Steve Patton from Amazon. 00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:50.639 So there's a few different folks who I've known who are, you know, procurement leaders who have like a sales background or very strong sales bend. 00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:57.199 I'm kind of curious, like, where do you see sales fitting into the role of a pr you know a procurement or category manager? 00:06:57.360 --> 00:07:11.600 And if you have any examples of times where you've had to really sell an opportunity to a supplier, I mean I'm sure that it if you're at a big three-auto OEM, you can kind of you can kind of you have a lot of power, but sort of sort of the biggest companies in the world, there's always some sales aspect. 00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:15.279 So I'm kind of curious if there's in how that's figured into your world, you know? 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:16.560 Yeah, absolutely. 00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:29.279 You know, I think I've always told suppliers during negotiations and conversations about programs, because I guess backing up a little bit and talking about the the kind of company that I've worked at in strategic sourcing for most of my career is matrix organizations, right? 00:07:29.360 --> 00:07:37.199 Where you have basically a an umbrella corporation that owns, in some cases, thousands of businesses that have their own independent PLs, right? 00:07:37.360 --> 00:07:46.959 What I used to always tell suppliers, especially

when I was at bigger corporations that had that problem, uh, I came from ITW, which not problem, that situation where there's just thousands of companies underneath that umbrella, right? 00:07:47.040 --> 00:07:48.240 You know, we're gonna negotiate hard. 00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:50.560 Here's the RFQ, we're gonna go through all this process. 00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:59.680 And then at the end of it, when I've already determined that you are the best partner for this, my role as a strategic sourcing professional flips from your worst enemy to your best friend. 00:07:59.920 --> 00:08:08.639 No, it turns into very much a sales role internally, because in that scenario, those local, those child companies have a lot of autonomy, right? 00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:14.160 They have the freedom of choice to say, okay, I'm gonna work with X, Y, or Z supplier, here are my reasons. 00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:22.240 And and corporate, you know, by design, does not normally come out and say, hey, you have to use this supplier because I said so, and end of story. 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:36.559 So I think throughout my sourcing career, it's been very much a sales effort where I have to go, you know, on the front end, of course, negotiate, make a great deal, have great value proposition, you know, dollars, of course, then you know, what are they gonna do for innovation and what other support are they gonna give me? 00:08:36.639 --> 00:08:41.279 But then turn around and convince my stakeholders that this is the right choice, and here's why. 00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:44.159 And that's where that really that that sales had of coming in. 00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:47.759 And even in in some scenarios, there might be some winners and losers internally. 00:08:47.919 --> 00:08:51.440 It might be a great deal for company A, but not so great figures are one, right? 00:08:51.519 --> 00:08:54.320 They might have to pay a little more to make the whole deal work. 00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:57.120 Lots of sales skills involved in that process. 00:08:57.360 --> 00:09:08.000 Do you remember a time where you ever really got into like a very tough conflict with a stakeholder where it was like, okay, like we were really not seeing eye to eye on something. 00:09:08.159 --> 00:09:10.080 We were really locking antlers. 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:15.519 I'd love to understand like what was the nature of the disagreement and like how did it ultimately kind of get resolved? 00:09:15.919 --> 00:09:22.240 Most of the disagreements when you're doing these multi-site negotiations turn into what I just dis R I just mentioned, right? 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:29.279 Where sometimes some get a better deal than others, or they're reluctant to work with a supplier because of history, you know, things like that. 00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:32.000 But just comes down to explaining the value prop, right? 00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:34.320 And that is not necessarily a numbers thing. 00:09:34.559 --> 00:09:34.720 Right. 00:09:34.879 --> 00:09:57.279 What would be an example of a value prop that you would say, like, hey, like a matrix organization, theoretically you can work independently of you, different people, but I want like I want us all to get on the same page because either we have more leverage or we can have like better terms, or we can have we can do more industrialization of that supplier and work with their build out because we can make a bigger investment. 00:09:57.440 --> 00:09:59.840 But how does that but I understand it from our perspective? 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:03.200 How does how do you translate that to the individuals that you're working with? 00:10:03.600 --> 00:10:05.840 Depends a lot on like putting yourself in their shoes, right? 00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:08.000 What is what is the thing that matters to them? 00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:11.120 And in some cases, that is, you know, corporate compliance. 00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:14.480 Sometimes there is an incentive to say, you know what, yeah, you know what, maybe I should. 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:17.679 It's minimal, it's not gonna make or break my business. 00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:18.960 Maybe I should just play along. 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:20.080 You know, there is some of that. 00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:28.080 But I think it's it's really about showing them how it's gonna make their life easier, especially if it isn't necessarily a cost thing. 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:30.240 I think a lot about travel programs. 00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:35.840 I've implemented a couple now in in my career in sourcing, and you know, that there's there's always a cost associated, right? 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:37.919 You're going from and a hidden cost. 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:40.799 Well, it's a cost that is hidden under the previous setup, right? 00:10:40.879 --> 00:10:49.600 You're going from a scenario where everybody kind of goes their own way, goes to united.com, goes to uh booking.com, goes to whatever makes their travel arrangements. 00:10:49.759 --> 00:10:52.559 You have complete freedom, complete autonomy to do whatever. 00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:58.159 And they say things like, you know, I'm always very cost conscious, so I always grab the cheapest, you know, et cetera, et cetera. 00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:03.759 But then here comes corporate sourcing saying, This is our new travel program, you have to use this. 00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:06.320 Uh, please make sure you do all your bookings inside that. 00:11:06.399 --> 00:11:11.600 And they'll come up and say, But, you know, that isn't the best deal, or it's not the most expensive, or you know, it's not the cheapest. 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:12.799 There's better deals out there. 00:11:12.879 --> 00:11:16.559 And it's like, okay, you have to pause for a second and factor in the value of your own time, right? 00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:27.120 When you when you have that autonomy and you're going out there and shopping, you're saving what, five, ten, maybe a hundred dollars, if if you know it's

some crazy uh deal that you found, you know. 00:11:27.279 --> 00:11:30.480 But how many hours does it take you to accomplish that, right? 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:38.960 Time, how much company time did you waste spend trying to save a hundred dollars when you could have just click-click done and saved your time too, right? 00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:46.159 So it's it's a little bit of framing that's helping people understand how how this makes their life better beyond the dollars and sets. 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:47.039 It's interesting. 00:11:47.200 --> 00:12:06.240 And then if you have to change something, you know, maybe the program for better terms versus like how many times have you been stuck in oh, you bought basic economy, sir, so you like can't use the bathroom or upgrade, change the seat, or you know, you cancel, you can't cancel, we'll give you you know$50 credit a million times. 00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:08.960 So I I can I can see the performance also being different. 00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:12.879 I I guess I'm kind of curious how do you make these kinds of trade-offs? 00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:27.600 And this is a very big question for which there is no right or wrong answer, but how do you think about making the trade-offs between, you know, price and performance, or price and lead time, or price and flexibility, or supplier stability? 00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:34.559 Because like I feel like those questions are so core to the procurement function, and it's just really difficult to answer, right? 00:12:34.720 --> 00:12:41.600 But I'm kind of curious, like, how do you figure out where to set the bar between, you know, making trade-offs between price and non-price factors? 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:42.080 Yeah. 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:51.039 Yeah, I think that's that's where the strategic sourcing and and procurement functions get a little bit into the art of the deal rather than the, you know, the hard and fast. 00:12:51.279 --> 00:12:56.000 And I think it it comes back down to what do you as a company care about, right? 00:12:56.159 --> 00:13:03.360 If price is all you care about, because you make widgets and they don't really matter, like they're not gonna kill anybody, discretionary spending. 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:08.559 You know, you can go to a low-cost country and say, hey, I want this for the cheapest price possible. 00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:10.000 I have no other consideration. 00:13:10.159 --> 00:13:10.799 I don't care. 00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:15.519 I want to s if you can save me a penny, I will switch from supplier A to supplier B for a penny. 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:16.559 Let's go, right? 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:16.960 Okay. 00:13:17.120 --> 00:13:17.279 Yeah. 00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:19.279 That that's one extreme, probably rare. 00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:22.000 Then it it's really my very much understanding, right? 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:23.440 Like your core business, right? 00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:33.200 Like you I work at at Time Manufacturing,

we make manlifts, aerial platforms, you know, bucket elevators that hold a person, hold a human, and hold them in some cases a hundred meters in the air. 00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:35.600 That's three hundred and thirty feet in the air. 00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:40.159 We can't necessarily, but we cannot say that, hey, make it for as cheap as possible. 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:44.879 I don't care if it fails, because if it fails, high likely are we gonna go kill somebody by by you know negligence. 00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:48.399 And so we we don't negotiate and structure our deals that way, right? 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:50.799 We are obviously quality first, right? 00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:57.360 It needs to be it needs to meet our engineering specifications and requirements, it has to be structured sound, etc. 00:13:57.679 --> 00:13:57.840 etc. 00:13:58.080 --> 00:13:58.240 Right. 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:02.080 So so it's very much, I think, based on on what your company cares about. 00:14:02.159 --> 00:14:04.960 You know, we are, like I said, heavy engineering company. 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:14.799 We need really good quality, we need basically perfect two-print parts, otherwise we can't produce because we're we're not gonna take the risk, obviously, of putting the machinery in the market. 00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:16.399 So we care very much about that. 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:18.480 Other companies might be more lenient. 00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:22.480 So it really depends on on what your specific needs are and how how you tailor that. 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:28.000 Because obviously, like you like you said it very well, the the more of those requirements you have that correlates to cost. 00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:30.720 If you need perfect every time, well, you're gonna pay more. 00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:34.879 No, it's simple kind of logic of the equation behind it. 00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:36.080 Yeah, I agree with you. 00:14:36.159 --> 00:14:43.840 And and look building on that, eventually, if you have so many requirements that are so hard, you get down to the Venn diagram, you got one supplier left. 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:49.679 I need someone who's local, who has this lead time, who has this quality, one vendor that we can work with. 00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:51.360 So then there's not much competition. 00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:55.279 I guess something you brought up that's sort of interesting is the interaction with the engineering team. 00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:59.200 Like, what does the interaction with the engineering team look like for you and your business? 00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:11.759 Is there any difference between when you're doing like an NPI project where it's like something that's new, you know, maybe higher velocity on iteration versus a sustaining project where you know engineering might not be as frequent a touch point. 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:13.759 I'm kind of curious what that relationship looks like. 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:14.960 Yeah, no, absolutely.

00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:24.399 You know, that I think that was one of the first challenges that that I think I recognized coming into this role where you know strategic sourcing didn't exist uh two years ago, right? 00:15:24.559 --> 00:15:32.000 Something I think every strategic sourcing professional knows, at least if you're in machinery, you you need to be very close with your engineering team, right? 00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:36.879 They they're the ones that, with good reason, design everything to fit your spec, right? 00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:43.360 They design the criteria, they determine how thick the steel needs to be to hold a human up, you know, 300 feet in the air. 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:50.399 Having a very strong relationship there is key, but there are different degrees of freedom, I guess, depending on what product we're talking about, right? 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:56.320 To your point, if it's an established product that doesn't have any design changes, it's in you know steady state production. 00:15:56.480 --> 00:16:01.360 Yeah, engineering is still very much the very first partner that I go reach out to and say, hey, I see an opportunity here. 00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:01.840 What do you think? 00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:02.399 What can we do? 00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:04.080 Can we reduce the thickness of the steel? 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:07.600 Can we change this, the position of this within the weldment a little bit? 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:09.840 It saves us six thousand dollars, whatever it might be. 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:10.159 Right. 00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:14.559 I think it always starts with them, especially on structural components or critical components. 00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:16.960 Uh starts with the engineering team's involvement. 00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:28.559 But beyond that, there's again, and when you're in steady stick production, there's a lot of items that engineering will just tell you, you know what, that that's off the shelf from no, you can find a better source and it fits this, this, and this, great. 00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:30.559 Form fit function, let's go. 00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:31.039 Right? 00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:33.519 Talking, you know, fasteners, bearings, things like that. 00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:34.399 Not always, right? 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:40.960 They're we have very special fasteners in certain critical applications that have to be, you know, incredibly strong or this thing's gonna break. 00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:41.519 Same thing. 00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:48.320 But there are some areas of opportunity in steady state that are a little easier to take the lead on without so much engineering involvement. 00:16:48.559 --> 00:17:04.559 When we're talking new product development, you know, I I I've made it my mission internally to kind of illustrate to everybody, look, the strategic sourcing and procurement functions are most effective when we're involved in new product development from day zero, right? 00:17:05.119

--> 00:17:08.720 Like you have an idea, you want to go build a new machine, talk to me, right? 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:09.680 What do you want to do? 00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:11.039 Where are we gonna source it, right? 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:12.640 What's gonna be different about it? 00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:18.079 And we can, you know, at the beginning, our I think as sourcing professionals, our involvement's a little lighter, right? 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:23.039 We'll probably just buy and tell you, you know, what, oh, you want to buy some sort of aerospace steel? 00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:24.319 I mean, that's gonna be very expensive. 00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:25.759 Can we try nothing else? 00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:27.440 Like it might be high-level stuff like that, right? 00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:30.319 But we'll we'll guide the conversation at least a little bit. 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:40.480 And then that way, when engineering starts, you know, actually releasing drawings, uh, we can be a real partner going out to market, finding the right partners that can make these things. 00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:44.319 And I think it just shortens the the new product development cycle. 00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:50.160 Because, you know, without that, what happens is engineering goes out, does their work, does it well, right? 00:17:50.319 --> 00:18:00.000 Designs a very good, good, cool machine that we think we can sell, but then procurement is in reactive mode, trying to go out there and find people that can make these things at scale. 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:04.400 You know, maybe we source a specific component from a supplier that we probably shouldn't do business with. 00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:11.519 You know, you open yourself up to a lot of risks when you don't involve uh the procurement function in new product development. 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:13.119 So I think we're there, right? 00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:20.640 We've developed a lot of new processes, you know, uh revamped the kind of our our stage gate approval process for new product development. 00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:24.960 You know, this involves a lot of functions across the company, not just procurement. 00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:35.759 But I'm happy to say that I think we're we're in we're in a good place now where we're involved early and we're really helping to get new product development through the finish line in a really, really good way. 00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:36.640 That's great. 00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:38.160 What's the stage gate process? 00:18:38.319 --> 00:18:40.079 Maybe we can just like talk about that for a sec. 00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:43.039 Just, you know, simple toll gate approval, right? 00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:54.240 Like you get to a certain point in your new product development and you say, okay, now, you know, engineering has come up with this idea, let's say, from the very beginning, and then take it to all the stakeholders at the executive level, right? 00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:57.920 Marketing, sales, head of engineering, head of procurement, be like, okay, we want to do this. 00:18:58.000 --> 00:18:58.720 What do you guys think? 00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:00.480 And kind of do start doing market study. 00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:05.599 And well, if marketing comebacks and says, Yeah, that's cool, but I'm gonna sell one every 10 years, well, maybe not. 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:05.920 Yeah. 00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:08.799 Cut your losses and move on to a different project, right? 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:09.839 That that that's what it is. 00:19:09.920 --> 00:19:15.599 It's designed to kind of triage along the way, help avoid uh honestly the song cost fallacy, right? 00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:16.400 Yeah, of course. 00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:20.400 To a point where it's like, oh, I've invested a hundred thousand dollars in this thing, so I'm gonna keep going. 00:19:20.559 --> 00:19:24.400 It's like, well, sure, but every other dollar is also a waste because we can't sell. 00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:37.839 Well, I'm kind of curious, like, you know, when you're you're talking about, you know, this sort of cost and ease of manufacturing or supplier industrialization question, like, oh, you use aerospace steel, that's gonna be possible, but much harder. 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:49.359 How much of these sort of design inputs do you find are coming from procurement versus coming from the suppliers themselves responding to the design and making alternative proposals? 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:51.440 It's a tough question to answer. 00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:58.240 Uh I don't know that I know an example where we're really pulling that level of idea directly from procurement. 00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:03.359 You know, obviously we do the best we can to diligence, but none of us are, I guess I shouldn't say none of us. 00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:04.720 I myself am not an engineer. 00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:06.480 I'm not a technical person, right? 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:10.400 So, you know, I'll I'll suggest, and folks on my team, I've seen them do it too. 00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:14.559 We'll suggest kind of common sense things, you know, like okay, can we do this a little bit differently? 00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:21.839 But the real value comes from from that support of kind of provoking the thought of, okay, what does this actually do from a supply chain side of things? 00:20:21.920 --> 00:20:24.400 Because again, engineers are focused on form fit, right? 00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:27.359 Function, not necessarily cost or availability or et cetera. 00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:30.240 Not always, but that tends to be the role, right? 00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:39.200 To the other side, one of the things we're really trying to leverage is the knowledge of our suppliers as subject matter experts within their within within their space, right? 00:20:39.359 --> 00:20:51.759 So we're we're working on um, you know, value add, value engineering projects, bringing in the suppliers and telling them,

hey, this is what uh you sell us today, based on the process and what you know about it and what you know about the application. 00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:52.960 What will you change? 00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:59.359 What would be impactful to not just the cost, but you know, all the other factors you mentioned, the lead time, the quality, et cetera. 00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:01.920 If we just tweak this that you happen to know about, Mr. 00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:07.359 Supplier, because you do this for a living and we don't, help us help us uh understand what those opportunities are. 00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:09.839 We started with a couple of those this year. 00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:13.599 As anybody that's been in a VAV, there's always some really nice surprises. 00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:18.480 Uh, I mean, you start with a broad funnel of ideas and it it narrows down pretty quick. 00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:22.799 But anything that makes it through the bottom of that funnel it is very impactful to the business. 00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:26.000 How do you think about the risk of sub vendor lock-in? 00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:36.160 One of the things that I feel like is always a little bit of a sliding scale, I would say, for um for design is sometimes the engineering team will own like the full thing, everything end-to-end. 00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:44.559 They develop every screw, nut, bolt, surface, and then you have the liberty to go and source it from anyone to your heart's content, right? 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:53.119 But then there are some times where it's like, hey, we don't have the engineering resources, or developing this mechanism is just like simply not something that we should be doing. 00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:56.640 And so then you end up designing in somebody else's IP. 00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.759 And on the supplier side, we talk to a lot of suppliers and they'll offer. 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:05.519 And use things like, hey, we develop IP, we develop assemblies as a as a way of protecting margins. 00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:07.359 They're not competed down as much. 00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:10.960 So how do you think about this sort of design ownership, vendor lock-in? 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:13.119 I mean, how does this all work in your world? 00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:14.799 Yeah, that's a great question. 00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:20.960 It's it's uh it's a big challenge for us, frankly, for anybody, I suppose, in strategic source and buy in, right? 00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:28.240 Because you're the the number one lever to to go out and source is that availability of the IP, right? 00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:32.960 You can't very well take supplier A's drawing and intellectual property and give it to supplier B. 00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:34.960 That's against the rules, right? 00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:39.440 You don't want anybody doing that to you, you're not gonna do it to anybody else, and it's very much illegal, or et cetera. 00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:41.039 So no, it's it's a real challenge. 00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:51.759 I think it's a challenge my team faces, and the the way we're working through it is being very upfront when we do have the liberty to source when we own the drawings, right? 00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:54.960 Being very upfront and very clear that these are our drawings. 00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:58.000 At no point do they become your intellectual property, Mr. 00:22:58.079 --> 00:22:58.559 Supplier. 00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:03.920 I don't care how much modifications you make to it, I don't care that you improved it by a thousand percent. 00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:06.400 Anything you do, it's mine, right? 00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:09.680 Because yeah, it's an incredibly important thing to protect, right? 00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:15.839 If if you lose that autonomy, you open yourself up to a lot of cost ups and supplier law. 00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:19.839 You said you're kind of captured prisoner, if you will, certain suppliers. 00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:21.440 But yeah, it's a real challenge. 00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:27.839 And and honestly, you hit the nail on the head that it's it's oftentimes a engineering resource challenge, right? 00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:37.759 If you have uh a very large or or even a legacy of of a lot of engineering design work, like we're fortunate to have, you know, it gives you one degree of freedom. 00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:43.920 But on the other hand, if if you haven't had that, it's a long path, I think, to to get to a point where you will. 00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:52.720 And and it comes down to just like anything else, negotiating with your suppliers, so that what you need to be able to go to RFQ, that intellectual property does become yours. 00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:57.519 You know, there's ways around it where you can basically, you know, you can't share a drawing, clear. 00:23:57.599 --> 00:23:58.319 It's not your IP. 00:23:58.400 --> 00:23:58.480 Yeah. 00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:00.559 You can always share your requirements, right? 00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:02.799 I need a cylinder that'll do this. 00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:04.799 That's not intellectual property to anybody. 00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:05.680 That's your thing. 00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:06.079 Right? 00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:08.319 I need it to do this, how you design it to make it do that. 00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:09.440 That's your problem, Mr. 00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:10.079 Supplier. 00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:16.160 So on the flip side, that can also be kind of a capability filter from new suppliers you're looking at, right? 00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:26.960 If you're able to share and tell them the true requirements of what the end product should do, based on that, they're not able to design something for you, then they're obviously not the right supplier to be considering. 00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:36.240 Sure, they can make widgets, but they can't design or innovate for you, especially in a situation where you're not engineering heavy, right? 00:24:36.319

--> 00:24:42.480 Where you don't have engineering resources, I think it becomes even more critical to make sure that suppliers you do work with are. 00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:44.079 Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. 00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:47.759 When you do have vendor lock-in, let's say it's just inevitable, right? 00:24:47.839 --> 00:24:59.440 Like, you know, I remember at Tesla we had certain suppliers where we couldn't, I can't even say I shouldn't say the names, but um, we had certain suppliers where it there was just no way to get around it, especially in the safety systems arena. 00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:01.359 That that was a particularly hard one. 00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:05.839 But because there's not, you know, safety critical and you know, that kind of thing. 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:08.400 Like there's not a there's not a huge number of companies. 00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:13.039 If you remember, I don't know if you remember Takata, but there was like a big you remember this? 00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:14.960 I mean, that was a crazy situation. 00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:20.480 It was like I don't know how close you are to airbags, but there's like broadly two parts of the airbag. 00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:36.240 There's the bag, and then which is like a nylon denier bag, and then there is uh the puck, which is the it's basically just like a small, it's like a grenade designed, like engineered for specific, you know, amounts of inflation of specific bags. 00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:56.559 But then there was an issue where in hot climates, you know, we had uh not we, but actually toccata's inflators, the something about the propellant was getting congealed or whatever, and it was it was burning too fast when deployed, and it was actually not just it was actually blowing the puck up, and some metal shrapnel was going and shooting out. 00:25:56.640 --> 00:26:04.240 So it went from being like a grenade to being a grenade, and then all of a sudden, you know, one out of the three major, you know, airbag suppliers is out of the game. 00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:08.160 And so that was a a real uh what they call a duopoly situation. 00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:17.680 So I'm kind of curious, like when you have these kinds of situations where you're with a supplier and there is some sort of, hey, there's only they know each other and there's only two options. 00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:22.079 It's they know each other's pricing kind of through tacit knowledge. 00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:25.519 You know, how do you actually come into those negotiations and make real headroom? 00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:32.880 Yeah, you know, that's that's a a tough scenario, a real, real difficult environment to kind of play in, right? 00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:41.279 And I I guess I would say in a scenario like that, if we're gonna stick sticking with the airbag example, I would say there's always the opportunity of insourcing, right? 00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:42.960 I guess if you're talking about leverage, right? 00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:47.440 Like I wanna I wanna tell them, you know what, you're either gonna gain this business or or maybe not, right? 00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:51.440 In a duopoly, I mean you can bid them against each other, sure, see what happens, right? 00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:52.000 Give them best. 00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:57.200 And again, if you're talking gigantic volumes like automotive, you'll probably get somewhere doing that, right? 00:26:57.279 --> 00:27:00.799 Because shifting it from A to B will be a huge impact for A or B. 00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:03.359 There's not that many players in the space and they depend on volume. 00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:09.440 So there's there's some levers there, but in a situation where you're completely stuck, yeah, your avenues are kind of slim, right? 00:27:09.519 --> 00:27:11.680 Like there's really not too many you can do. 00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:12.559 It's a tough scenario. 00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:14.240 I'd have to think about that more to be honest. 00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:15.599 That one's that's difficult. 00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:23.119 You know, insourcing, like I said, it is real, but it comes with a huge capital investment and the the huge engineering investment too, to figure it out. 00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:25.440 You know, can I make it better than the guys that already do? 00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:27.599 Or should I even enter that market? 00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:32.960 But you know, we can get into economic theory about new market entrance, etc. 00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:34.559 Oh, for sure. 00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:44.480 Here's the question how you found should cost modeling to be like a useful or not so useful activity, like I think should cost modeling is a must. 00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:53.039 You have to do this, especially in areas where you don't have inside knowledge of how these materials are costed, right? 00:27:53.119 --> 00:27:56.880 As a sourcing professional, you have to develop some sort of understanding, right? 00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:01.680 I think they're incredibly powerful, but they wouldn't be powerful in a monopoly because they don't care. 00:28:01.839 --> 00:28:05.039 Like you can tell them that we have 50% margin, they're like, okay, great. 00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:06.319 Now your margin's 60%. 00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:07.920 You near has to go. 00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:10.799 So it is there's scenarios where they're utterly useless, right? 00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:16.559 But in in understanding your supply base and understanding, you know, what am I actually paying for? 00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:18.079 They're they're incredibly powerful. 00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:23.440 And they do open up a lot of avenues for questions of and that they're helpful in VAV exercises, et cetera. 00:28:23.599 --> 00:28:27.039 Trying to understand, okay, this material it's it's 70% steel. 00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:28.000 So hey, Mr. 00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:30.079 Supplier, the steel market just came down 20%.

00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:32.480 Why hasn't my price changed? 00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:32.960 Right? 00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:34.000 Let's talk about that. 00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:38.000 Let's build that in the contracts, you know, incredibly impactful and helpful in all sorts of ways. 00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:45.279 I think if you're not doing should cost modeling and then total cost of ownership, et cetera, you're not doing strategic sourcing, you're not doing it properly. 00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:46.720 Yeah, it makes sense. 00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:55.519 Well, what I'm I'm kind of curious, like, you know, and this might be very elementary, but you know, I'd love to get your perspective on the definition of strategic sourcing, right? 00:28:55.680 --> 00:29:00.799 So, you know, you came into I I I know it's it's like both a simple and not a simple question at the same time. 00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:08.960 Um, and I feel like there are a lot of definitions out there, but but you came into time and you built up the strategic sourcing function or functional thought. 00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:22.880 You know, what do you feel like are the sort of for you in your experience, like the most important, you know, two or three defining aspects of what makes somebody a strategic sourcer or doing strategic sourcing versus what's the opposite of that? 00:29:23.119 --> 00:29:24.640 Transactional or just buying? 00:29:24.799 --> 00:29:26.480 Like what's the what is the opposite also? 00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:27.359 I guess it's a good question. 00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:27.759 Yeah. 00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:28.799 Yeah, no, absolutely. 00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:31.680 So uh I think there's the way I tell my family what I do. 00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:38.960 In its simplest form is I I negotiate contracts for things that if you want to boil it down to one sentence, right? 00:29:39.119 --> 00:29:40.160 I negotiate contracts. 00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:40.960 That's that's what I do. 00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:42.720 Or more so what my team does nowadays. 00:29:42.799 --> 00:29:51.759 But anyway, the the getting into like what it is, you know, I always tell my team if if you find yourself writing a purchase order, then I did something wrong. 00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:58.240 Nobody in my strategic sourcing group, from my point of view, should be doing operational procurement work, right? 00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:02.160 And I say that because operational procurement work is a bear, right? 00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:05.839 It's it's a mountain of work, it's incredibly difficult. 00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:09.839 You're always chasing, uh, there's always either too much or too little, right? 00:30:09.920 --> 00:30:15.359 There's no happy medium where you hit the nail on the head and you had exactly what you wanted, exactly when you needed it, that never happens, you know. 00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:16.960 So it's a huge amount of work. 00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:29.680 And from my point of view, if you're trying to do both that operational procurement and strategic sourcing, well, the operational is always going to take precedent because that's in a way more critical, right? 00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:34.559 If the parts don't get here, well, it doesn't matter how great a price I negotiated, the parts aren't here. 00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:36.319 I can't build, I can't sell, etc. 00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:38.799 That aside, what strategic sourcing does, right? 00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:43.599 Negotiating contracts, building relationships with your suppliers, protecting the company. 00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:51.119 We we back to negotiating contracts, we protect the IP, the financials of the company, right? 00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:52.319 That's our job, right? 00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:57.519 Otherwise, you're operating out there on purchase order terms and conditions, which are generally pretty broad. 00:30:57.680 --> 00:31:01.200 You know, they don't give you a lot of warranty, a lot of recourse if things go sideways, you know. 00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:02.319 And we create value. 00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:05.119 All right, it's not just price, right? 00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:08.880 It's it's building that partnership, it's seeing what else can be delivered. 00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:16.240 You know, there's always this this discourse, I think, in strategic sourcing and in procurement of is it hard savings or is it cost avoidance? 00:31:16.559 --> 00:31:16.799 Right? 00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:22.960 I think if you look at the cost avoidance bucket and think of what that is, there it that's pure value to the company. 00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:25.119 It doesn't show up in the PL, etc. 00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:34.160 But if you think of it in the absence of a strategic sourcing team, well, he could have paid X thousand dollars more or not gotten this additional service or et cetera, right? 00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:36.240 That's all in a cost avoidance bucket. 00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:39.359 So I think that more or less is what strategic sourcing does. 00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:39.920 Yeah. 00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:41.119 I think it makes sense. 00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:45.759 I I guess um I know this is sort of a topic that shouldn't leans a little bit. 00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:52.880 You know, I know that Ben wanted us to hit on a little bit of some of the things that have happened since we last spoke in this kind of format. 00:31:53.119 --> 00:31:54.559 You know, I I'd love to get your take. 00:31:54.640 --> 00:31:59.039 I mean, how are you feeling about the global trade environment right now? 00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:01.039 What have been the changes you've seen? 00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:07.039 I guess what actions or inactions are you sort of feeling like it's it's wise for people to take at this moment. 00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:07.519 Yeah. 00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:15.359 No, I remember my my biggest points back then, time we talked about tariffs was, you know, it's all pain right now because of the uncertainty, right?

00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:23.920 Like at that time it was, you know, you'd you'd flip on the news in the morning and there was a new 30% tariff, or or a 30% tariff went away, or whatever, right? 00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:27.200 It was day-to-day, and you know, see your pants, what's what's happening? 00:32:27.279 --> 00:32:29.680 It's it seems like things have calmed down a little, right? 00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:33.759 There's still some noise of tariffs here and there, a lot less. 00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:41.519 I think we're starting to see a lot of them actually cement now and like show up in in invoices and start to hit the bottom line, right? 00:32:41.599 --> 00:32:51.200 Where you know, cash, real dollars are going out to pay for tariffs, and that's that's starting to eat into margins, and you're starting to see a lot of that pass through into what customers have to pay. 00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:55.279 And I'm not talking about, you know, staples right or you know, me going out grocery shopping. 00:32:55.359 --> 00:33:00.640 I'm talking about what I see in the business when I'm out there trying to buy things or or or sell things for that matter, right? 00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:02.720 Like cost of goods has simply gone up, right? 00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:04.480 Like we're actually seeing the impact of it now. 00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:05.839 And that's not a bad thing. 00:33:06.079 --> 00:33:11.359 I am not still convinced if terrorists are gonna be good for us or bad for us in in the long run, right? 00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:12.720 I don't know what they're gonna do. 00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:15.279 You can find pundits talking in either direction. 00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:18.559 They're the best things since sliced bread, they're the worst things to slice bread, yeah. 00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:22.319 I'm very encouraged that the noise has stopped, at least, or or slowed down. 00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:23.839 It feels that way, it doesn't. 00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:27.759 It feels like there's not as much changes happening on a daily yeah. 00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:33.359 I mean, it's crazy, and in some ways it's like thank God people weren't taking them as gospel when they came out. 00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:41.119 Because if you thought there was gonna be a hundred something percent tariff, like and you totally changed up your supply base, I mean, that would be a lot of thrash, you know? 00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:42.400 That'd be a lot of pain. 00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:42.880 Yeah. 00:33:43.119 --> 00:33:44.000 A lot of pain. 00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:50.079 But I guess I'm I'm like curiously, are you you know, I remember you guys were actively managing I remember a few levels. 00:33:50.240 --> 00:33:56.559 One was like the the expected base case and then like the potential value at risk across the bill of materials. 00:33:56.640 --> 00:33:58.960 Like I remember you guys had a really great analysis around this. 00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:06.400 Is that still something that's being refreshed on a weekly basis, or is it like, hey, we're we feel this is more under control, so like let's focus on other stuff now? 00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:09.519 No, it's it's well, I wouldn't say it's weekly anymore, right? 00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:25.840 Again, because things have slowed down quite a bit, but we still do quite a lot of of modeling in that in that space, kind of trying to think of um, okay, where is this going to affect us, where in the bill of materials is it going to show up, and what is the actual impact to our full cost of goods sold, right? 00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:31.119 So so we still do a lot of that, but it is easier now because we know where it's hitting and what's happening. 00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:34.000 Not much has changed except for that things are a little more certain. 00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:34.960 Yeah, of course. 00:34:35.199 --> 00:34:38.719 Here's my last sort of question, which is what's keeping you up at night? 00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:52.719 Like what's like what's the thing that you're like, you know, when you're like, okay, when I get off this call, the thing the like this has been an enjoyable, you know, oasis away from the the trials and tribulations of of being a procurement leader. 00:34:52.880 --> 00:34:54.639 But then what's gonna creep back in? 00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:58.079 What's the first thing that you're gonna have to like get back on top of? 00:34:58.320 --> 00:35:00.559 The fire or like the persistent grind? 00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:04.800 Like, what's the thing that's really like the number one thing on your mind right now? 00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:08.480 You know, I think what's what's gonna happen to the capital equipment world, right? 00:35:08.559 --> 00:35:11.119 The one the one that we live in my industry, right? 00:35:11.360 --> 00:35:20.079 I think everybody was expecting to see a a giant pop in investment in in machinery and other things when uh the presidency came into office, right? 00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:22.559 And I think for a lot of industries that hasn't materialized. 00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:26.239 So I'm still wondering, like, is it gonna continue to be kind of a slow burn? 00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:28.079 Like it's not like the industry's dead or anything. 00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:29.599 The one who gives that impression, right? 00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:34.079 Things machines are selling, uh, we're still producing, of course, day in, day out. 00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:47.360 But is there is there going to be at some point kind of an inflection point where we're gonna start to see all industries, not just uh the machinery, you know, for the utility and and telecom industries kind of pop off like everybody was expecting. 00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:50.239 Fortunately, we're poised and ready to to do a something like that. 00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:53.519 We have, you know, shortest lease times in the industry at this point, I think. 00:35:53.599 --> 00:35:56.400 So we're we're very much ready, but when's it gonna come? 00:35:56.639 --> 00:35:56.960 Yeah. 00:35:57.199 --> 00:35:58.639 Well, what's the what was the thought? 00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:05.119 Was that was that the promise with the new presidency that there would be a lot more investment in like in machinery and capital equipment? 00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:07.199 Yeah, you know, just an impression for me. 00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:20.880 I mean, I'm not gonna so cite a source, but yeah, it it certainly seems like there was a lot of pent-up demand from last year coming into this year, thinking of, okay, when this happens is gonna free up a lot of dollars, you know, a lot of federal funds and stuff like that. 00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:24.719 And right, we're gonna see the investment come through into our bottom line. 00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:28.559 But as you know, the the federal funds has been, I think, different than anybody expects. 00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:29.519 Yeah, it's interesting. 00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:38.880 I mean, look, I mean, there could there's a lot of pressure, as you've seen in the news for to Jerome Powell, the Fed Reserve Chairman, uh, to lower rates, lower interest rates. 00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:51.039 And by the way, when you lower interest rates, what that means is that it feels cheaper to make investments now, you know, because the you're not competing with like five percent interest you could keep on cash in the bank. 00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:53.199 You're competing with one percent interest. 00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:59.280 So, you know, it's worth spending money today for future returns, and that's that's investment, capital investment is one of those things. 00:36:59.360 --> 00:37:06.239 So we'll see, but it's it is becoming a hotly debated political issue, and that's uh that's where I have to draw the line, you know. 00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:09.119 But uh Nico, thank you so much for the time. 00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:10.639 This is really amazing. 00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:19.679 I love our conversations like always, and so having an opportunity to actually like record it, snippet it, uh, and then share it out with folks is a real joy. 00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:21.119 So thank you so much for joining. 00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:22.719 Yeah, thanks for having me, Spencer. 00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:25.199 Like, yeah, likewise, always a pleasure to chat. 00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:28.400 Uh looking forward to the next one, hopefully at some point. 00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:29.280 Yeah.