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gone. Marie Vigouroux: 00:02:27 That's awesome! Jeremy Greer: 00:02:31 It's just all disappeared. Marie Vigouroux: 00:02:34 It'll come back. It'll come back. Jeremy Greer: 00:02:35 I'm excited to get into this. Why don't you Jeremy Greer: 00:02:38 describe which episode we're doing? Marie Vigouroux: 00:02:39 So the description for this episode is: Marie Vigouroux: 00:02:41 "As the FBI investigates the disappearance of college Marie Vigouroux: 00:02:44 students, Jack Crawford recruits a criminal profiler, Will Graham Marie Vigouroux: 00:02:48 and a brilliant psychiatrist and a brilliant psychiatrist, Dr Marie Vigouroux: 00:02:53 Hannibal Lecter, who is secretly a serial killer and a cannibal." Jeremy Greer: 00:02:58 Ooh Marie Vigouroux: 00:02:59 Sets the tone right? So this episode was Marie Vigouroux: 00:03:02 written by Brian Fuller, directed by David Slade, and it Marie Vigouroux: 00:03:05 originally aired on April 4, 2013 Jeremy Greer: 00:03:09 Are you familiar with - so I guess first off, I Jeremy Greer: 00:03:12 want to direct everybody to listen to our trailer slash Jeremy Greer: 00:03:14 introduction, so that they can get a kind of a history of my Jeremy Greer: 00:03:18 relationship with Hannibal, as well as Mary's lack of Jeremy Greer: 00:03:20 relationship with everything Hannibal. But just to sum it up Jeremy Greer: 00:03:24 very quickly, I'm a huge fan. I've seen this show like three Jeremy Greer: 00:03:26 times. I've read the books multiple times. I've seen all of Jeremy Greer: 00:03:30 the movies. I'm way into this fandom, and Mary knows Jeremy Greer: 00:03:32 absolutely nothing about it. Marie Vigouroux: 00:03:33 Nothing at all, nothing apart from the fact Marie Vigouroux: 00:03:37 that, like, basically, what's in this in this description is what Marie Vigouroux: 00:03:41 I know. He's a serial killer and a cannibal. That's it. Jeremy Greer: 00:03:43 Exciting. Do you have any experience with Brian Jeremy Greer: 00:03:46 fuller shows? That was, I forgot to ask you that in the in the Jeremy Greer: 00:03:50 introduction, so, but I was curious if you had watched Dead Jeremy Greer: 00:03:52 Like Me, or pushing daisies or anything like that. Marie Vigouroux: 00:03:55 Nope. Jeremy Greer: 00:03:56 Okay. Marie Vigouroux: 00:03:56 I haven't watched anything, but I do know Marie Vigouroux: 00:03:58 - so I know of his fandom and the people who follow his work, Marie Vigouroux: 00:04:03 and so that, because I'm just, like, immersed in fandom, per Marie Vigouroux: 00:04:07 se, and that's, that's how I know of him, and I know that Jeremy Greer: 00:04:09 It's interesting, because the shows that I've seen Jeremy Greer: 00:04:10 he's quite beloved by the people who follow his work. So very Jeremy Greer: 00:04:12 him - that I have seen from him specifically, like Dead Like Me Jeremy Greer: 00:04:14 excited about that. Marie Vigouroux: 00:04:15 Yeah. I mean, you know, this is - I find that Marie Vigouroux: 00:04:16 or Wonder Falls, they have this kind of almost wacky sensibility Marie Vigouroux: 00:04:21 about death, or serious subjects, like Dead Like Me is Marie Vigouroux: 00:04:24 whenever I start watching shows like this, I'm like, Okay, I Marie Vigouroux: 00:04:25 about a young girl who dies and becomes a Reaper. And imagine a Marie Vigouroux: 00:04:28 teenager who doesn't like want to be a Reaper, but it has gets Marie Vigouroux: 00:04:31 bossed around by Mandy Patinkin, who is the boss Reaper. So it's Marie Vigouroux: 00:04:35 very It's very funny and silly, and a lot of his shows are like Marie Vigouroux: 00:04:36 need to watch other things that this person has done. So I feel Marie Vigouroux: 00:04:38 that. Like Pushing Daisies has this kind of wacky, zany thing Marie Vigouroux: 00:04:41 over a layer of very emotional and kind of deep stuff. And it's Marie Vigouroux: 00:04:45 such a change with Hannibal, which has none of that. Hannibal Marie Vigouroux: 00:04:49 like this is going to open the door to that. But I think I was, Marie Vigouroux: 00:04:49 is self serious to the point of almost this detriment, in some Marie Vigouroux: 00:04:52 cases. Jeremy Greer: 00:04:59 Yeah, it's a show that I like a lot, that it also Jeremy Greer: 00:05:01 the thing is, I was too young for Pushing Daisies, and I just Jeremy Greer: 00:05:14 never really went back to it. Jeremy Greer: 00:05:38 didn't finish. I don't know why. I just watched, I watched I Jeremy Greer: 00:05:41 watched the first, like, probably 10 episodes. I was Jeremy Greer: 00:05:43 like, This is great. I should watch more. And it never did. So Jeremy Greer: 00:05:47 - Marie Vigouroux: 00:05:47 Ah, man! Jeremy Greer: 00:05:47 We should talk about the format of the show a Jeremy Greer: 00:05:49 little bit. How are we, how are we going to structure our Jeremy Greer: 00:05:51 episodes going forward? Marie Vigouroux: 00:05:52 Right! So we are going to start with our Marie Vigouroux: 00:05:55 little introductions, basically the same way that we did here. Marie Vigouroux: 00:05:58 Then we're going to talk a little bit also about, like the Marie Vigouroux: 00:06:02 title of the episode, what it means, right? Because it seems, Marie Vigouroux: 00:06:05 again, from what I know, it seems, that every title in Marie Vigouroux: 00:06:08 season one is like a course for a meal. We're going to talk also Marie Vigouroux: 00:06:14 a little bit about possibly a theme for the episode, and then Marie Vigouroux: 00:06:18 we're going to do a beat by beat, where we're going to go Marie Vigouroux: 00:06:21 through basically everything that happens in the episode, Marie Vigouroux: 00:06:24 what we thought about it, and linking it back to the theme Marie Vigouroux: 00:06:27 that we identified at the beginning. Jeremy Greer:

00:06:29 Yeah. Marie Vigouroux: 00:06:30 And then we have probably my favorite part Marie Vigouroux: 00:06:33 of the episode at the very end. Do you want to tell us about Marie Vigouroux: 00:06:35 that? Jeremy Greer: 00:06:35 It's the review section we're going to we're Jeremy Greer: 00:06:37 going to review every episode and give it a star rating. Uh, Jeremy Greer: 00:06:41 spoiler, mine'sprobably just gonna be four stars every single Jeremy Greer: 00:06:43 episode. Like, I doubt that we're gonna find a bad one. I'm Jeremy Greer: 00:06:46 a bad reviewer because either I like something or I don't want Jeremy Greer: 00:06:48 to consume it. Like, that's my, that's my I'm all on or all off. Jeremy Greer: 00:06:51 I'm zero stars or four stars. Like, if I give something to two Jeremy Greer: 00:06:53 and a half star, I'm like, What are we doing here? What is, what Jeremy Greer: 00:06:55 is, what does that? Marie Vigouroux: 00:06:56 You might as well just go to zero right at Marie Vigouroux: 00:06:58 that point. Jeremy Greer: 00:06:58 But I'm excited to do like a brief, like four star, Jeremy Greer: 00:07:01 kind of a like a restaurant style review that you would see Jeremy Greer: 00:07:04 on Yelp, not anything really long, but just something that Jeremy Greer: 00:07:07 would give you an idea of what you're about to go to if you're Jeremy Greer: 00:07:09 trying to scope out a new restaurant. So - Marie Vigouroux: 00:07:12 Yeah! Jeremy Greer: 00:07:12 Without further ado, let's get into what an Jeremy Greer: 00:07:15 apéritif is. I wonder if I did that - Marie Vigouroux: 00:07:18 Yeah, all right, so an apéritif and this - Marie Vigouroux: 00:07:20 so you pulled some information, I think, directly from the wiki. Marie Vigouroux: 00:07:23 Am I right? From the wiki? Jeremy Greer: 00:07:26 Yeah, this is directly from the Wikipedia off Jeremy Greer: 00:07:28 an apéritif. Marie Vigouroux: 00:07:28 Okay. Jeremy Greer: 00:07:28 Yes.I should have sourced that. Marie Vigouroux: 00:07:32 No, it's fine. It's just because I was like, Oh Marie Vigouroux: 00:07:35 my gosh. Like, what how? Because I know what an apéritif is, just Marie Vigouroux: 00:07:39 because, like, from cultural, I don't want to say osmosis, but Marie Vigouroux: 00:07:43 from having lived in French culture, right? So the way that Marie Vigouroux: 00:07:46 we do apéritif is usually like, Okay, so as you're cooking, as Marie Vigouroux: 00:07:52 you're preparing the meal, you're gonna have a little Marie Vigouroux: 00:07:54 drink, right? So, and that's your apéritif, and it's often, I Marie Vigouroux: 00:07:58 think here I see: "common choices for an apéritif are Marie Vigouroux: 00:08:01 vermouth, champagne, pasticin, ouzo, fino, Amontillado or other Marie Vigouroux: 00:08:06 styles of dry sherry, but not usually cream or olarosso Marie Vigouroux: 00:08:11 blended Sherry, which is very sweet and rich", that would Marie Vigouroux: 00:08:14 probably be more a digestive. Jeremy Greer: 00:08:16 A dessert kind of wine, yeah. Marie Vigouroux: 00:08:18 A dessert kind of wine. Um, so do you do you Marie Vigouroux: 00:08:21 have, like, a little apéritif every once in a while, Jeremy? Jeremy Greer: 00:08:24 Not often, but we do. So I've gotten more into - Jeremy Greer: 00:08:29 Covid got me more into making cocktails, so I have a couple Jeremy Greer: 00:08:32 cocktail books, and so we started, but what happens is, Jeremy Greer: 00:08:35 like, we like a cocktail a lot so we end up drinking like two Jeremy Greer: 00:08:37 or three of them, and then forgetting about dinner until 10 Jeremy Greer: 00:08:39 o'clock at night. So our apéritif can go for a little Jeremy Greer: 00:08:44 while. I love the way that this connects, like the Wikipedia Jeremy Greer: 00:08:49 references that this is from the Latin word aperire, maybe? We're Jeremy Greer: 00:08:55 just gonna guess. Marie Vigouroux: 00:08:55 I don't know how to pronounce Latin. Listen, Marie Vigouroux: 00:08:57 I try every week on my podcast, and it just doesn't work. Jeremy Greer: 00:09:00 You're the smart one, Mary, you're the smart one Jeremy Greer: 00:09:02 with all of the accents. If you can't do it, nobody can. But it Jeremy Greer: 00:09:06 means, it literally means to open. And I love that, the way Jeremy Greer: 00:09:09 that this connects to the show. And because this is literally Jeremy Greer: 00:09:13 the opener of the show, like this is going to be what sets Jeremy Greer: 00:09:16 the taste for the for the menu ahead of us, for the for the Jeremy Greer: 00:09:19 meal ahead of us. And it sets the kind of tone. Obviously, in Jeremy Greer: 00:09:22 a pilot, we're gonna introduce all of our characters, although Jeremy Greer: 00:09:24 I should, I should mention that this isn't a pilot. It was Jeremy Greer: 00:09:26 actually renewed before they even got to pilot, or approved Jeremy Greer: 00:09:29 before it even got to pilot stage. They were like, Marie Vigouroux: 00:09:31 Really?! Jeremy Greer: 00:09:31 Yeah. Marie Vigouroux: 00:09:31 That's cool. Marie Vigouroux: 00:09:32 Yeah, that's true. Jeremy Greer: 00:09:32 They saw the scripts and were like, give it Jeremy Greer: 00:09:33 There's a bunch of shows that came out, like, about Jeremy Greer: 00:09:34 to me. We're ready. And 2013 was kind of like a heyday for serial Jeremy Greer: 00:09:38 killer stuff as well. Like we had - Jeremy Greer: 00:09:43 that, you know, kind of topic, nothing like this. Jeremy Greer: 00:09:46 Really popular. Marie Vigouroux: 00:09:46 Everybody was watching it, right, yeah. There Marie Vigouroux: 00:09:46 And this was also, like, the really high Jeremy Greer: 00:09:47 So, yeah, this, I love the way that this connects, Jeremy Greer: 00:09:47 you go. Jeremy Greer: 00:09:49 like, it's

also when Criminal Minds was, like - Jeremy Greer: 00:09:58 and I'm really interested in, as we go through this first season, Jeremy Greer: 00:10:02 if every single course is going to connect to, kind of - if we Jeremy Greer: 00:10:04 can apply it to a theme of the show, right. And this obviously Jeremy Greer: 00:10:08 being, you know, just an introduction, it's an Jeremy Greer: 00:10:10 introduction to our tour, to our characters. Marie Vigouroux: 00:10:14 it's like a way of, like leaving you wanting a Marie Vigouroux: 00:10:16 little bit more, right? And also like breaking the ice, right? Marie Vigouroux: 00:10:19 Because that's kind of the point of having a drink also, Marie Vigouroux: 00:10:21 especially when you have people over, right? Jeremy Greer: 00:10:23 Yes. Marie Vigouroux: 00:10:23 So you have people over, you offer them a Marie Vigouroux: 00:10:24 little drink, and then immediately, like, it breaks Marie Vigouroux: 00:10:27 down some barriers, a little bit of, like, any kind of Marie Vigouroux: 00:10:31 butterflies or anxiety or whatever, like, it just goes Marie Vigouroux: 00:10:33 well away, mostly, depends on how anxious you are, she says, Marie Vigouroux: 00:10:38 looking at her anti-anxiety meds, but basically, yeah, it's, Marie Vigouroux: 00:10:42 like, it's, it's a way to, like, just put you at ease, and, like, Marie Vigouroux: 00:10:46 just slowly slide into the world, which I really, really Marie Vigouroux: 00:10:50 love. Jeremy Greer: 00:10:51 It's interesting. Like you mentioned that slow Jeremy Greer: 00:10:53 slide. I don't think Hannibal, the actual title character of Jeremy Greer: 00:10:56 the show, shows up until like, 24 minutes in, maybe before we Jeremy Greer: 00:10:59 see him. Or he's even a reference to, like, they do a Jeremy Greer: 00:11:01 lot of world setting and stage setting before Hannibal even, Jeremy Greer: 00:11:06 even bothers to show up. And then when he does, it's just Jeremy Greer: 00:11:08 like, here's Hannibal, and then he goes away. I'm so curious, Jeremy Greer: 00:11:12 when we get there in the in the play by play, I'm so curious how Jeremy Greer: 00:11:15 you're going to react to some of this stuff. Because obviously, Jeremy Greer: 00:11:16 like, as a Hannibal fan, I was like, there he is. I was doing Jeremy Greer: 00:11:19 the DiCaprio meme of, like, Oh, there he is. But before we get Jeremy Greer: 00:11:24 into the the actual play by play, the meat of the episode, Jeremy Greer: 00:11:27 there's two things I want to mention. First off, if you Jeremy Greer: 00:11:30 haven't seen the show before, and you plan on watching along, Jeremy Greer: 00:11:34 and you haven't watched the episode yet, you're just kind of Jeremy Greer: 00:11:36 getting your feet wet. I want to mention that it's a very, very Jeremy Greer: 00:11:38 graphic show. Jeremy Greer: 00:11:39 The first episode has quite a bit of imagery of Marie Vigouroux: 00:11:39 Yeah. Marie Vigouroux: 00:11:43 death. There's going to be a lot of very scary kind of dream-like Marie Vigouroux: 00:11:47 psychedelic imagery, but there's also going to be some actual Marie Vigouroux: 00:11:49 violent crimes committed against men and women in horrific Marie Vigouroux: 00:11:54 circumstances. And if that's not something that you want to Marie Vigouroux: 00:11:56 watch, you should be aware of it, because it's it can be very Marie Vigouroux: 00:11:59 gruesome. I think in this episode, everything feels very Marie Vigouroux: 00:12:02 dry. It's not like slasher, kind of slasher movie, gory, right? Marie Vigouroux: 00:12:07 Like, you don't really see that, but at the same time, like, we Marie Vigouroux: 00:12:10 have a young woman depicted, like, mounted on some deer Marie Vigouroux: 00:12:13 antlers, like, and that's kind of horrifying. Marie Vigouroux: 00:12:15 Yeah. Jeremy Greer: 00:12:15 So just wanted to mention that for people at home. Marie Vigouroux: 00:12:20 I will say - So, I am also incredibly Marie Vigouroux: 00:12:23 squeamish, and I hate slasher films, and I don't love body Marie Vigouroux: 00:12:26 horror. Like, it's a lot of, it's a lot of things that kind Marie Vigouroux: 00:12:29 of hit me in places that I don't really love. But I didn't feel Marie Vigouroux: 00:12:35 disturbed when I watched this, this particular episode. I can't Marie Vigouroux: 00:12:39 say how I'll feel later on, but for now, like, I didn't go, oh Marie Vigouroux: 00:12:42 my god, I can't look at this. It was like, Oh, okay. Like, it is Marie Vigouroux: 00:12:45 incredibly graphic and violent, but it's also done in a way that Marie Vigouroux: 00:12:49 feels almost respectful of of esthetics in a way. And I don't Marie Vigouroux: 00:12:55 know if this makes any sense if you haven't seen it, but it's Marie Vigouroux: 00:13:01 yeah, it's not - yeah. Jeremy Greer: 00:13:03 It's hardly ever. You know, compared to a slash Jeremy Greer: 00:13:05 movie is good because, like a slasher movie, you might have Jeremy Greer: 00:13:08 somebody like, literally sitting on someone and just stabbing Jeremy Greer: 00:13:11 them with a knife over and over again as blood like spurts all Jeremy Greer: 00:13:14 over the place, versus Hannibal, which is going to present us Jeremy Greer: 00:13:17 with a lot of pictures of death. And they're going to be like, I Jeremy Greer: 00:13:20 feel like Hannibal defined aesthetic for Tumblr for a long Jeremy Greer: 00:13:23 time. Like, I think I feel like that's where people, like, Jeremy Greer: 00:13:26 started using the word aesthetic all the time. They're like, Oh, Jeremy Greer: 00:13:29 Hannibal, yeah, that's, that's, that's the vibe. Marie Vigouroux: 00:13:31 Yeah. Jeremy Greer: 00:13:32 And it is, it is very bad. There will be moments Jeremy Greer: 00:13:34 of, like,

significant violence that kind of dip into, you know, Jeremy Greer: 00:13:37 the blood spatter and that kind of thing. I'll be curious how Jeremy Greer: 00:13:40 you go through especially the first season, which is, brings Jeremy Greer: 00:13:44 me to my second topic, because the show, in the first season, Jeremy Greer: 00:13:49 out the gate, it's kind of doing almost a monster of the week Jeremy Greer: 00:13:51 format, where it's like, Ooh, there's a new killer. We got to Jeremy Greer: 00:13:53 track down this thing. There's a quote from Brian Fuller that I Jeremy Greer: 00:13:58 want to read. This is from an Indie Wire magazine article that Jeremy Greer: 00:14:01 I'll link in the show notes. Fuller said, "I remember leaving Jeremy Greer: 00:14:04 the edit session where we'd seen the first cut of the pilot, and Jeremy Greer: 00:14:07 I was like, we're doing the wrong show. When I saw David Jeremy Greer: 00:14:10 Slade and Jim Hawkins's work and really understood the artful Jeremy Greer: 00:14:13 piece that they were able to conjure for what we had. I threw Jeremy Greer: 00:14:15 out the scripts. Looking back at the pilot, you can feel the Jeremy Greer: 00:14:18 early conflict between the paint by number investigative story Jeremy Greer: 00:14:21 beats and the lurking sense of unsettling danger in the Jeremy Greer: 00:14:23 cinematography." Marie Vigouroux: 00:14:24 Yes! Jeremy Greer: 00:14:25 And I wanted to mention this because of James Jeremy Greer: 00:14:26 Hawkinson, specifically, incredible cinematographer, and Jeremy Greer: 00:14:30 his work on this show is literally transient, like it Jeremy Greer: 00:14:32 changes the show to a significant degree. I feel like Jeremy Greer: 00:14:36 without this kind of approach, this would be just another like Jeremy Greer: 00:14:39 Criminal Minds, which is not bad, but it wouldn't be as as Jeremy Greer: 00:14:42 artful as it is. Marie Vigouroux: 00:14:43 No, you're absolutely right. And I think - Marie Vigouroux: 00:14:47 okay, to see it written that way, and to see it put that way, Marie Vigouroux: 00:14:51 makes so much sense, because I realized as I was watching that Marie Vigouroux: 00:14:54 I was much less interested in, you know, what he calls the Marie Vigouroux: 00:14:58 paint by number investigative story beats, and just completely Marie Vigouroux: 00:15:02 taken aback by the cinematography, because I don't Marie Vigouroux: 00:15:05 think I've seen this in a TV show before, especially not that Marie Vigouroux: 00:15:09 kind of TV show. Jeremy Greer: 00:15:11 Absolutely like, again, this could just be a Jeremy Greer: 00:15:13 paint by the numbers crime pilot. Like, you know, we're Jeremy Greer: 00:15:16 gonna, there's a new serial killer. We got to track him Jeremy Greer: 00:15:18 down. We're gonna do, there's gonna be an autopsy scene, you Jeremy Greer: 00:15:20 know, we're gonna, we're gonna have to talk to an expert, check Jeremy Greer: 00:15:24 the lore, and then we're gonna go get the guy. And because of Jeremy Greer: 00:15:28 the number one, I think the chemistry between Mads Mikkelsen Jeremy Greer: 00:15:31 and Hugh Darcy - Dancy? Hugh Darcy? Hugh Dancy, excuse me, Jeremy Greer: 00:15:36 playing Hannibal Lecter and Will Graham specifically, because of Jeremy Greer: 00:15:40 their chemistry, and because of the writing and because of the Jeremy Greer: 00:15:43 cinematography, it's really elevated above that. And they Jeremy Greer: 00:15:46 did the extremely smart thing, which is lean into that as the Jeremy Greer: 00:15:49 show goes on to the point where, like, there's episodes in season Jeremy Greer: 00:15:52 three where I'm like, Are you - did you guys even say a word? Jeremy Greer: 00:15:55 Like, was there dialog in this did I just watch an art film, Jeremy Greer: 00:16:00 like, what is happening right now. So, I'm excited to get into Jeremy Greer: 00:16:03 that. Marie Vigouroux: 00:16:04 So excited. Jeremy Greer: 00:16:05 Do you have anything you want to bring up Jeremy Greer: 00:16:06 right before we go into the play by play? Marie Vigouroux: 00:16:09 No, honestly, I'm ready to go. I'm very Marie Vigouroux: 00:16:11 excited. I've never been excited for like, horror and death and Marie Vigouroux: 00:16:16 blood and whatnot, but I am right now! Jeremy Greer: 00:16:18 Excellent. Well, with that, we'll go into our Jeremy Greer: 00:16:21 play by play section. Jeremy Greer: 00:16:51 So we're gonna start at a crime scene. There's blood spatter Jeremy Greer: 00:16:54 everywhere. We see Will Graham. We don't know he's Will Graham Jeremy Greer: 00:16:58 yet, but he is kind of standing in the middle of this crime Jeremy Greer: 00:17:03 scene. He closes his eyes, and we see this enormous like golden Jeremy Greer: 00:17:07 sweep hand sweep across the blackness. And as he opens his Jeremy Greer: 00:17:11 eyes, that sweep hand starts to erase things from the scene. So Jeremy Greer: 00:17:17 we see the blood pool from a body receding, going backwards. Jeremy Greer: 00:17:21 We see the blood spatter that's on the alarm panel starts to Jeremy Greer: 00:17:25 unspatter in a really cool, like, reverse effect, Marie Vigouroux: 00:17:29 Yeah, it like peels off the wall and the and Marie Vigouroux: 00:17:32 the panel and whatnot. It's like, it's, yeah, beautiful. Jeremy Greer: 00:17:35 And as this continues, we see him literally Jeremy Greer: 00:17:37 walking backwards out of this house. He's surrounded by cops. Jeremy Greer: 00:17:41 And again, this sweep hand I don't have a name for it. I'd be Jeremy Greer: 00:17:43 very curious what they named but they call this like internally, Jeremy Greer: 00:17:46 as they were referred to this in the script. Marie Vigouroux: 00:17:47 Yeah, I don't know, actually. Jeremy Greer:

00:17:49 But this, the sweep hand like, erases the Jeremy Greer: 00:17:51 cops. So to a certain point - we get to the point where Will is Jeremy Greer: 00:17:56 just standing in front of the house alone, and he looks up, Jeremy Greer: 00:17:59 and then wild shit starts happening. Will goes nuts. I Marie Vigouroux: 00:18:05 I was like, Oh no! I didn't think it was that Marie Vigouroux: 00:18:07 kind of show! Jeremy Greer: 00:18:09 It's - it's intense, because at this point Jeremy Greer: 00:18:11 you don't know who Will Graham is. You don't you assume that Jeremy Greer: 00:18:13 he's with the police, but what you see is him crashing through Jeremy Greer: 00:18:16 the door. He shoots a man we're gonna know is Mr. Marlowe later. Jeremy Greer: 00:18:20 And then, as all of this is happening, will begins to Jeremy Greer: 00:18:23 narrate what he is doing. "This is my design." Marie Vigouroux: 00:18:27 So chilling. Jeremy Greer: 00:18:28 It's extremely chilling. He shoots a woman Jeremy Greer: 00:18:32 expertly, I think Will says, through the neck, which Jeremy Greer: 00:18:36 instantly paralyzes her. But Will now, I think we get that - Jeremy Greer: 00:18:40 ee get the idea that Will is channeling what this killer was Jeremy Greer: 00:18:42 doing. He says, you know, that doesn't mean that she can't feel Jeremy Greer: 00:18:46 pain. And he talks about, like, the man is going to be - the man Jeremy Greer: 00:18:51 he shot is gonna be alive enough to see him take everything he Jeremy Greer: 00:18:53 loves away from him. And it's, it's just immediately out the Jeremy Greer: 00:18:57 gate. You're like, What in the fuck is happening right now? Jeremy Greer: 00:18:59 What is going on. Marie Vigouroux: 00:19:00 You're like, oh no. Like, it's very impactful as Marie Vigouroux: 00:19:06 a very first scene, right? Jeremy Greer: 00:19:08 Oh, absolutely, yeah, this, this will get you Jeremy Greer: 00:19:10 hooked immediately, I think. And I can only imagine how this read Jeremy Greer: 00:19:14 on the page too. Like, I feel like this is NBC going, like, oh Jeremy Greer: 00:19:16 yeah, just give us, give us more of this. Like, we love this. Marie Vigouroux: 00:19:19 To be honest with you, I took no notes at all Marie Vigouroux: 00:19:22 during this first scene, because I was just looking at it like Marie Vigouroux: 00:19:26 what is happening in front of me right now. Jeremy Greer: 00:19:28 As you know, Autumn and I have seen this Jeremy Greer: 00:19:30 together. We watched it as it came out, and we've watched it a Jeremy Greer: 00:19:32 couple times since. And Autumn like looked at me several times, Jeremy Greer: 00:19:34 she's like, my mouth has just been open for 90 seconds. Marie Vigouroux: 00:19:37 Yes, exactly! So good. Jeremy Greer: 00:19:41 Will approaches the alarm panel. And I love this Jeremy Greer: 00:19:44 moment because he he reaches up to touch it, and then we cut Jeremy Greer: 00:19:47 directly to the present, and he's asking, like, you know, I Jeremy Greer: 00:19:52 need the transcript between the alarm company so like, he's back Jeremy Greer: 00:19:54 in present mode. He's not he's no longer channeling the visions Jeremy Greer: 00:19:57 of this killer. Marie Vigouroux: 00:19:59 Hmm. And I find it so interesting that in that Marie Vigouroux: 00:20:03 moment, you see, like, a complete change in color Marie Vigouroux: 00:20:05 temperature, like between the present and what we now know, or Marie Vigouroux: 00:20:11 what we later find out is, like, Will's imagination, like, it's Marie Vigouroux: 00:20:14 just so compelling because there's warm tones for the Marie Vigouroux: 00:20:18 imagination part, but there's very cool tones for the reality. Marie Vigouroux: 00:20:22 And it's sort of, well, I think it says something about like, Marie Vigouroux: 00:20:25 where he feels most comfortable, or where he feels most at home, Marie Vigouroux: 00:20:29 one might say. Jeremy Greer: 00:20:30 And as we learn more about Will, we're gonna, Jeremy Greer: 00:20:32 we're gonna realize that these two areas of his mind are not Jeremy Greer: 00:20:37 necessarily separated from one another. And that's something Jeremy Greer: 00:20:39 that happens even over the first episode. You see one bleed into Jeremy Greer: 00:20:42 the other to the other. Marie Vigouroux: 00:20:42 Yeah. Jeremy Greer: 00:20:43 And the cinematography, like works with Jeremy Greer: 00:20:44 that, I think, in a really powerful way. So I'm just, I'm Jeremy Greer: 00:20:48 just so excited for this to get so weird. I'm just so excited. Jeremy Greer: 00:20:52 They figure out that this killer was able to tap their phone and Jeremy Greer: 00:20:55 record a mistaken alarm off, so, like, he was able to basically Jeremy Greer: 00:21:01 just turn the alarm system off so he's not going to be bothered Jeremy Greer: 00:21:05 by the police. And that's when things, quote, get truly Jeremy Greer: 00:21:07 horrifying. And we cut from here to Quantico, which is going to Jeremy Greer: 00:21:11 be a reoccurring - Quantico is the as we know from the X Files Jeremy Greer: 00:21:16 and also just media in general. It's the FBI training facility Jeremy Greer: 00:21:20 will is now presenting this case to his students and saying, Jeremy Greer: 00:21:25 Tell me your design. Tell me who you are. I'm stealing your Jeremy Greer: 00:21:28 notes, Mary. I'm sorry. It's just too good. Marie Vigouroux: 00:21:30 No, that's great. No, no, no, that's great. Marie Vigouroux: 00:21:32 Because it just, I find that that line feels very charged, Marie Vigouroux: 00:21:35 right? Because it seems like there's a lot of emphasis, like Marie Vigouroux: 00:21:39 the cinematography, or, like, the story, puts a lot of Marie Vigouroux: 00:21:41 emphasis on that, and it feels

like ominous almost, you know. Jeremy Greer: 00:21:45 And I don't know how often I want to do this, Jeremy Greer: 00:21:47 because I feel like I might clog the podcast, but to I just, Jeremy Greer: 00:21:51 like, every once a while I want to contrast and compare the show Jeremy Greer: 00:21:54 with, like, the actual like books and everything. If you - Marie Vigouroux: 00:21:57 Yeah, for sure! Jeremy Greer: 00:21:58 If you look on like, the fandom wiki site, Jeremy Greer: 00:22:00 there's a, there's like, a 10 page like, thing, the Jeremy Greer: 00:22:03 differences. And I'm like, I don't want to be that guy. I Jeremy Greer: 00:22:05 don't want to do that. That's ridiculous, but I do want - when Jeremy Greer: 00:22:08 stuff comes up that's interesting, I want to mention Jeremy Greer: 00:22:10 it. And one of the things that Silence to the Lambs does is Jeremy Greer: 00:22:14 like, it's, it's Clarice Starling is a FBI agent in Jeremy Greer: 00:22:18 training. So you get a lot of like, Will Graham showing her Jeremy Greer: 00:22:21 how to be an agent or mentoring her. Marie Vigouroux: 00:22:23 I see. Jeremy Greer: 00:22:24 And that's not present here, but it's you see Jeremy Greer: 00:22:26 this - him mentoring other, other students, other agents in Jeremy Greer: 00:22:29 training. And there's a lot of like learning to do profiling, Jeremy Greer: 00:22:35 like learning how to actually profile a potential serial Jeremy Greer: 00:22:37 killer. And I just find that fascinating. Like, tell me who Jeremy Greer: 00:22:40 you are, tell me your design. Like you, as you mentioned, it Jeremy Greer: 00:22:43 felt very charged. And that's it's because it's pulling on Jeremy Greer: 00:22:45 some stuff that, like, we already know, like, we feel like Jeremy Greer: 00:22:48 something's about to happen. Marie Vigouroux: 00:22:50 So is this, like, this line about the design Marie Vigouroux: 00:22:53 and tell me who you are, like, is that something that comes Marie Vigouroux: 00:22:55 directly from the book? Jeremy Greer: 00:22:56 Nope, not that I know of. Marie Vigouroux: 00:22:57 No?? Not even? Oh my god. Jeremy Greer: 00:22:59 It's been a while since I've read the books, I Jeremy Greer: 00:23:01 don't think the design stuff is from the books I'm planning on Jeremy Greer: 00:23:05 rereading. I'm in the middle of a book now that I'm immediately Jeremy Greer: 00:23:07 going to read all of these books so I can get up to date, because Jeremy Greer: 00:23:11 our schedule is going to be relatively slow, and now I'm Jeremy Greer: 00:23:13 craving more Hannibal content. Marie Vigouroux: 00:23:15 Yeah, there you go. Jeremy Greer: 00:23:17 At the end of the class, Jack Crawford as played Jeremy Greer: 00:23:19 by Lawrence Fishburne appears. Jack is a - kind of a - he's in Jeremy Greer: 00:23:24 charge of the behavioral unit at the FBI, so it's his job to Jeremy Greer: 00:23:27 literally profile and catch serial killers for the FBI. And Jeremy Greer: 00:23:31 he's basically here to recruit Jack. And there's a little bit Jeremy Greer: 00:23:35 of back and forth, like they know one another, because Jack Jeremy Greer: 00:23:38 kind of built a museum of serial killers, and called it the Evil Jeremy Greer: 00:23:41 Minds museum. And Will has kind of, kind of rebuffed that a Jeremy Greer: 00:23:46 little, he's like, that's a dumb name for for this, like, he Jeremy Greer: 00:23:48 doesn't, he doesn't like the evil minds thing, which I Jeremy Greer: 00:23:50 totally get, because, as we're gonna learn, will empathize is Jeremy Greer: 00:23:53 with these people. So he can't, he doesn't naturally call them Jeremy Greer: 00:23:57 evil. Marie Vigouroux: 00:23:59 And he, I think he calls it like it's a little Marie Vigouroux: 00:24:01 hammy, if you ask me, or something, yes, something like Marie Vigouroux: 00:24:03 that. And I find that really interesting, that he, he kind of Marie Vigouroux: 00:24:07 pushes back against the - the reduction of the human mind. Marie Vigouroux: 00:24:12 Whether we think of it as evil, necessarily, he's like, Well, Marie Vigouroux: 00:24:16 this is still a human mind, and there's something human about Marie Vigouroux: 00:24:19 it, and we shouldn't be so reductive, which I really Marie Vigouroux: 00:24:21 appreciate to a certain degree, right? Jeremy Greer: 00:24:24 I like it. Marie Vigouroux: 00:24:26 I'm like, Well, I don't know, I don't know Marie Vigouroux: 00:24:27 exactly all of the ramifications of that, but I think that it's Marie Vigouroux: 00:24:31 important to realize that, like people who do truly horrible Marie Vigouroux: 00:24:36 things, are still human. And that's, that is still part of Marie Vigouroux: 00:24:39 human nature. I think that's that is the scary part for me of Marie Vigouroux: 00:24:44 all of this. Jeremy Greer: 00:24:45 Oh, absolutely. And Hannibal is going to do - Jeremy Greer: 00:24:48 Hannibal the show, is going to do such a good job of showing Jeremy Greer: 00:24:51 you the humanity of the people that are committing these awful Jeremy Greer: 00:24:53 and violent crimes. It never, it never tells you like he's good Jeremy Greer: 00:24:57 now, or like he, you know, it doesn't do it like in a very Jeremy Greer: 00:25:00 simple black or white kind of way. But it definitely shows Jeremy Greer: 00:25:02 you, like, you know, these are actual human beings. This is a Jeremy Greer: 00:25:05 human person that you know is doing these crimes, but it's Jeremy Greer: 00:25:09 also at the same time, human. So what? How do we deal with that, Jeremy Greer: 00:25:12 which, of course, like calling them evil, just is a such a Jeremy Greer: 00:25:15 reduction that you know, he rejects. It's hammy, as you Jeremy Greer: 00:25:18 mentioned. We learned that Will is on

the spectrum, which is a Jeremy Greer: 00:25:21 something that is wild to see in a like national media. And I Jeremy Greer: 00:25:27 don't find him very like autistic, autistic-coded. But I Jeremy Greer: 00:25:30 really want you to speak to this. Marie Vigouroux: 00:25:32 Well, I mean, I was really excited when I saw Marie Vigouroux: 00:25:34 that he, like, calls himself autistic, so he says that he's Marie Vigouroux: 00:25:37 closer to the Asperger and autistic post or something. So I Marie Vigouroux: 00:25:45 don't tend to really use Asperger for a lot of reasons, Marie Vigouroux: 00:25:47 right? Like, because historically, it's a term that Marie Vigouroux: 00:25:50 was used by the Nazis in Nazi Germany to kind of describe Marie Vigouroux: 00:25:54 whether autistic people were functional enough to still work Marie Vigouroux: 00:25:59 in the camps or they had to be killed in the gas chambers. So I Marie Vigouroux: 00:26:03 tend not to use that, and I stick with with autism or Marie Vigouroux: 00:26:06 autistic people. And I just, I think it's so I just think it's Marie Vigouroux: 00:26:13 so cool, because a lot of the stuff that you're seeing, his Marie Vigouroux: 00:26:15 relationship with empathy, his relationship with his Marie Vigouroux: 00:26:17 imagination, we'll see eventually also his relationship Marie Vigouroux: 00:26:21 with animals like it speaks to a lot of things that I think Marie Vigouroux: 00:26:24 autistic people - that are very real for a lot of different Marie Vigouroux: 00:26:27 autistic people. Jeremy Greer: 00:26:29 Yeah, I did not know that about Nazi Germany, by Jeremy Greer: 00:26:31 the way, I did -had no idea that that existed. So that's a new Jeremy Greer: 00:26:34 horrible fact that's in my brain. Marie Vigouroux: 00:26:36 Yep, the horrors never stop. Jeremy Greer: 00:26:43 We're also - So Jack, reluctantly, kind of Jeremy Greer: 00:26:45 agrees to look at this case where college girls are being Jeremy Greer: 00:26:48 abducted. I'm sorry. Will agrees to go with Jack to look at this Jeremy Greer: 00:26:53 case. They're calling it abductions, because they haven't Jeremy Greer: 00:26:55 found any of the bodies. Jack is taken to the victim board. I Jeremy Greer: 00:27:00 guess you would call this like the cork board, with all of the Jeremy Greer: 00:27:03 they don't have red - they don't have red yarn. Unfortunately, Jeremy Greer: 00:27:05 it's not a it's not a Pepe thing, but it's - but they do Jeremy Greer: 00:27:08 have everything spread out and organized. And Jack begins to Jeremy Greer: 00:27:11 look at him, and notices, obviously, like all of the girls Jeremy Greer: 00:27:14 look the same. And he describes him. He uses a metaphor of Willy Jeremy Greer: 00:27:19 Wonka, of like, he's looking for a golden ticket in a sea of Jeremy Greer: 00:27:22 sameness. And he, I love this so much because he, you could tell

Jeremy Greer: 00:27:28 right away that he's just almost immediately inside the mind of a Jeremy Greer: 00:27:31 killer. And,it's like, Jack is, like, watching this kind of Jeremy Greer: 00:27:35 almost at a distance. Just like, how is this dude work? Like, how Jeremy Greer: 00:27:38 does this machine work? I don't understand it. Marie Vigouroux: 00:27:41 Yeah, there - you can tell immediately, like Marie Vigouroux: 00:27:43 you said, you can tell that Jack doesn't understand, but he's Marie Vigouroux: 00:27:45 like, Oh, this is really valuable, right? And I mean, Marie Vigouroux: 00:27:49 that's going to be one of my main questions for later, like, Marie Vigouroux: 00:27:52 does Jack really value will as a person, or does he value him for Marie Vigouroux: 00:27:56 what he can bring him? And I don't know that yet, right? Marie Vigouroux: 00:28:00 Because that there's a few conversations in there that I'm Marie Vigouroux: 00:28:03 like, I don't really know where jack stands about this. One Marie Vigouroux: 00:28:06 thing that I think is, is, is really that kind of made me Marie Vigouroux: 00:28:10 chuckle, actually, is the fact that he's using the Willy Wonka Marie Vigouroux: 00:28:13 metaphor, because that's such a childish thing to describe Marie Vigouroux: 00:28:18 really, really horrible things. And yet, like, if you look at Marie Vigouroux: 00:28:24 interviews of serial killers, like sometimes they'll use Marie Vigouroux: 00:28:27 really mundane ways of describing how they felt about Marie Vigouroux: 00:28:31 their victims. And so I feel like, in that way, Will is Marie Vigouroux: 00:28:33 already, like you said, he's already empathizing with with Marie Vigouroux: 00:28:37 the serial killer who took all these girls. Jeremy Greer: 00:28:40 Yeah, this is just, I love this. It's Jeremy Greer: 00:28:44 fascinating. And you got it kind of the heart of one of the Jeremy Greer: 00:28:47 things that the show is going to be doing for the rest of the Jeremy Greer: 00:28:50 season. In fact, the rest of the series is like Jack's motivation Jeremy Greer: 00:28:53 and his, you know, is he there to catch serial killers and use Jeremy Greer: 00:28:57 whatever tool is available, including Will, or does he Jeremy Greer: 00:28:59 actually have genuine affection when, for Will and is going to Jeremy Greer: 00:29:02 protect him against, you know, his own empathy, like, is he Jeremy Greer: 00:29:05 going to protect him against his own brain? And that's, that's, Jeremy Greer: 00:29:08 that's a, that's a huge discussion. We're going to talk Jeremy Greer: 00:29:09 about that almost every single week. Marie Vigouroux: 00:29:10 Awesome,Awseome! Because I was like, you know, I Marie Vigouroux: 00:29:14 mean, how is Jack any different from, from, from those people Marie Vigouroux: 00:29:19 who are using other human beings, right, for their own, Marie Vigouroux: 00:29:23 for their own will, or their own, their own profit to a Marie Vigouroux: 00:29:26 certain degree, right? The more cases he solves, the more the Marie Vigouroux: 00:29:29 more he wins, the more the more money he makes, the more print Marie Vigouroux: 00:29:32 motions he can get anyway. So all that to say, I had a lot of Marie Vigouroux: 00:29:37 questions about that. I also thought that like that, this Marie Vigouroux: 00:29:40 immediately brought me back to Criminal Minds. As you can guess Marie Vigouroux: 00:29:42 by now, I've watched every single season of Criminal Minds, Marie Vigouroux: 00:29:45 and I love and hate that show very strong love and hate a Marie Vigouroux: 00:29:48 little bit like Supernatural to a certain degree. And it's funny Marie Vigouroux: 00:29:52 to me when Will says, like he would hide how important she is Marie Vigouroux: 00:29:57 to him, right, talking about the golden ticket, and he goes. I Marie Vigouroux: 00:30:00 mean, I would, wouldn't you, and it's like, he's like, Well, Marie Vigouroux: 00:30:04 don't you feel these really, really basic things? Jack, like, Marie Vigouroux: 00:30:08 Come on, man. Like, it just seems so obvious to him. Jeremy Greer: 00:30:11 In a way, Will Graham has written, in a similar Jeremy Greer: 00:30:14 fashion to, is it Spencer on Criminal Minds? It's been years Jeremy Greer: 00:30:17 since I've seen it, but like, the super brainy guy with the Jeremy Greer: 00:30:20 kind of lack of empathy, not empathy, but lack of, like, Jeremy Greer: 00:30:23 social cues, right? And we're even gonna get into a little bit Jeremy Greer: 00:30:26 of that here where, you know, Jack actively wants him to come Jeremy Greer: 00:30:29 on this investigation, and Will is reluctant because he doesn't Jeremy Greer: 00:30:32 want to be sociable with people. But there's definitely, like a Jeremy Greer: 00:30:34 comparison you can make between Spencer and Will Graham at this Jeremy Greer: 00:30:37 moment, although Will doesn't have like, that encyclopedic Jeremy Greer: 00:30:40 knowledge thing, is more like about feelings and emotions and Jeremy Greer: 00:30:43 empathy. Marie Vigouroux: 00:30:45 Well, a lot of people think of Spencer Reed as Marie Vigouroux: 00:30:47 autistic as well. So this doesn't surprise me at all what Marie Vigouroux: 00:30:50 you're saying. Jeremy Greer: 00:30:51 I - to be honest with you, I'll just assume that Jeremy Greer: 00:30:53 they had done that in the show at some point, because that Jeremy Greer: 00:30:57 shows been going for so long. I was like, surely they've done it Jeremy Greer: 00:30:59 by now. But I guess not. Marie Vigouroux: 00:31:01 no, and he's not in the show anymore, Marie Vigouroux: 00:31:03 unfortunately, with the latest revival that happened, like just Marie Vigouroux: 00:31:07 last year or so. Jeremy Greer: 00:31:08 Oh, okay. Marie Vigouroux: 00:31:08

Yeah. Jeremy Greer: 00:31:10 Will and Jack -Excuse me, Jack takes will to Jeremy Greer: 00:31:13 meet the family of the latest abduction. And it's a kind of a Jeremy Greer: 00:31:17 normal interview, except that Will, and we're gonna see a lot Jeremy Greer: 00:31:20 of this in this in this episode in the future. Will is kind of Jeremy Greer: 00:31:24 eccentric in social situations. So as Jack is having a normal Jeremy Greer: 00:31:29 conversation with this, you know, very terrified parents Jeremy Greer: 00:31:34 Will excuse me, Jack, I'm gonna get losing my mind here. Marie Vigouroux: 00:31:37 There's so many characters! Jeremy Greer: 00:31:39 Thank God we're not doing a Game of Thrones Jeremy Greer: 00:31:40 podcast; Aegon, Egan... Marie Vigouroux: 00:31:42 Oh my god, forget it. Jeremy Greer: 00:31:46 Will is like looking at the family photos and Jeremy Greer: 00:31:50 then just kind of randomly out of nowhere, ask a question like, Jeremy Greer: 00:31:52 What about the cat? And everyone's like, What are you Jeremy Greer: 00:31:54 talking about? What about the cat? And he makes a leap. And he Jeremy Greer: 00:31:58 brings Jack over and says she was abducted from here. They Jeremy Greer: 00:32:02 followed her here. She fed the cat. That's why the cat didn't Jeremy Greer: 00:32:04 bother anybody all weekend, and she was abducted here, which Jeremy Greer: 00:32:08 turns this house from, turns us from an interview into a crime Jeremy Greer: 00:32:11 scene. So immediately, Jack orders his - it's not EMTs. I Jeremy Greer: 00:32:16 don't, I don't remember the name of his crew. I just called him Jeremy Greer: 00:32:18 the crew in my notes. Marie Vigouroux: 00:32:21 I think he says, ERT, but I'm not sure what Marie Vigouroux: 00:32:24 that stands for, and I didn't want to look it up again, like, Marie Vigouroux: 00:32:27 I don't know what they're gonna show me. Jeremy Greer: 00:32:29 Essentially, we're gonna meet in just a few Jeremy Greer: 00:32:31 minutes. We're gonna meet three side characters, supporting Jeremy Greer: 00:32:36 character, characters that are, like the diagnostic crew. Jeremy Greer: 00:32:40 They're the, you know, they're the people that are going to Jeremy Greer: 00:32:42 come in and look at all of the fingerprints, and they're going Jeremy Greer: 00:32:45 to look at all the materials and all that stuff. That's who he's Jeremy Greer: 00:32:47 calling on board to basically dissect this crime scene. Marie Vigouroux: 00:32:49 So they come back, we're going to see those Marie Vigouroux: 00:32:52 people again. Jeremy Greer: 00:32:53 Yes, all three of these, if you notice in the Jeremy Greer: 00:32:55 credits, I'll get there in a minute. So they go upstairs to Jeremy Greer: 00:33:04 look at, I think it's Elise's room. And the dad is like, Jeremy Greer: 00:33:08 opening the door for will, and was like, Don't touch anything. Jeremy Greer: 00:33:11 You can't even be in here. Hold the cat if it's better for you. Jeremy Greer: 00:33:15 Like, so you won't touch anything. And it's a weird Jeremy Greer: 00:33:18 moment, but it's, I think it's just there to show you like, oh, Jeremy Greer: 00:33:20 we are going to respect this crime scene, like, we have to Jeremy Greer: 00:33:22 make sure everything's exactly everything's exactly the way it Jeremy Greer: 00:33:23 was. So when they walk in surprise, Elise is there laying Jeremy Greer: 00:33:29 in bed. That Marie Vigouroux: 00:33:31 Ugh! That was so horrifying, honestly, but the Marie Vigouroux: 00:33:33 second that I saw the cat trying to get in, I was like, There's a Marie Vigouroux: 00:33:35 dead body in there. Like, 100%. Jeremy Greer: 00:33:37 100%. Marie Vigouroux: 00:33:38 Like, Oh my god. I was like, a cat trying to Marie Vigouroux: 00:33:43 get into a locked room with murder going on. Yeah, for sure, Marie Vigouroux: 00:33:47 100%. Jeremy Greer: 00:33:47 Absolutely, yeah, the cat wants to eat the body. Jeremy Greer: 00:33:50 That's unfortunately - Marie Vigouroux: 00:33:50 I know! It wants to eat the eyes. Jeremy Greer: 00:33:53 It wants to eat the eyes. And we love them Jeremy Greer: 00:33:55 anyway. We love cats anyway. Let them eat eyes is what I say. Marie Vigouroux: 00:33:59 I would let them eat my eyes, frankly. Jeremy Greer: 00:34:04 So now that this is a crime scene and Will has a Jeremy Greer: 00:34:06 body to work with, I find it very interesting that Jack, at Jeremy Greer: 00:34:08 this moment, basically tells Will, like you have all of the Jeremy Greer: 00:34:13 time that you need. He's not gonna invite the ERTs up. He's Jeremy Greer: 00:34:17 gonna leave this crime scene for Will to kind of do his thing Jeremy Greer: 00:34:19 with, right? He's just going to, you know, whatever you need to Jeremy Greer: 00:34:22 do, do it. We're going to leave you alone to do it. And outside Jeremy Greer: 00:34:25 is like this hive of activity, of cops pulling up, like, we got Jeremy Greer: 00:34:29 to do all of this stuff. Everything's going crazy. We Jeremy Greer: 00:34:31 have to get this body out of here. But, like, we're going to Jeremy Greer: 00:34:32 block this off so that Will can do his thing. And I think if Jeremy Greer: 00:34:36 you've watched a lot of like, crime material or crime like Jeremy Greer: 00:34:39 media, I think this is very unusual, right? Like they don't Jeremy Greer: 00:34:42 normally just let a dude sit in here and chill for 20 minutes by Jeremy Greer: 00:34:44 himself. Marie Vigouroux: 00:34:46 No, definitely not, especially if they're not, Marie Vigouroux: 00:34:48 as we find out, like he's not an FBI agent, right? Jeremy Greer: 00:34:51 Right. Marie Vigouroux: 00:34:52 Right. So then, This is so then what - Well, Marie Vigouroux: 00:34:55 anyway, maybe that's a question that's

answered later. But then Marie Vigouroux: 00:34:57 what is he? Because he's like, special investigator, what does Marie Vigouroux: 00:34:59 that mean, anyway? Sorry. Jeremy Greer: 00:35:01 So right now he's, he's technically in the next Jeremy Greer: 00:35:04 episode, this will be, I think, explained in, like, handwritten Jeremy Greer: 00:35:06 and hand waved away, so we won't have to worry about it anymore. Marie Vigouroux: 00:35:09 So I'm like, why does he have a gun! Jeremy Greer: 00:35:13 Right? Marie Vigouroux: 00:35:13 That's my canadianness. I'm like, why does Marie Vigouroux: 00:35:15 he have a gun? Anyway. Yeah, we're not allowed handguns here. Marie Vigouroux: 00:35:19 So to me, like seeing somebody with a handgun is like a big Marie Vigouroux: 00:35:21 deal. Jeremy Greer: 00:35:21 I'll see a dude with a handgun at a Starbucks. Jeremy Greer: 00:35:23 It's ridiculous. It's just so insane. Marie Vigouroux: 00:35:26 I know Jeremy Greer: 00:35:28 Will begins to focus, and the same thing that Jeremy Greer: 00:35:30 happened in the cold open begins to happen. We see our sweep hand Jeremy Greer: 00:35:34 appear in his mind as the sweet pan goes the blood. There's only Jeremy Greer: 00:35:38 like small points of blood on Elise's body, but those Jeremy Greer: 00:35:41 disappear, and now she's just sleeping. And as the sweep hand Jeremy Greer: 00:35:45 continues, it finally gets to a starting point, and he leaps on Jeremy Greer: 00:35:48 top of her, strangling her. And it's very intense, like when Jeremy Greer: 00:35:52 Hugh goes from like everyday, Will, to serial killer, Will, it Jeremy Greer: 00:35:56 is absolutely terrifying. Marie Vigouroux: 00:35:59 Yeah, yeah. It really was, frankly, I was like, Marie Vigouroux: 00:36:02 Oh my God, is he - and then he got me wondering, like, is this Marie Vigouroux: 00:36:05 - anyway, I'll talk about that a bit later, but I'm like, is it Marie Vigouroux: 00:36:08 just imagination, or is he, like, fantasizing about this? Jeremy Greer: 00:36:11 And that's, that's, that's gonna be Jeremy Greer: 00:36:13 something that we delve into. So definitely keep asking that Jeremy Greer: 00:36:16 question, because I think it's a very valid one of, like, what it Jeremy Greer: 00:36:20 what? How much is this affecting his mind? Right? We, like, we Jeremy Greer: 00:36:23 talk about forts in a little while, and we'll talk about some Jeremy Greer: 00:36:26 of that stuff. He's interrupted by Beverly Katz. She's not named Jeremy Greer: 00:36:29 in this episode. I hope that's her name. Yeah, that's her name. Jeremy Greer: 00:36:33 I couldn't remember if that was her name or her actual in real Jeremy Greer: 00:36:36 life, name. Beverly Katz is one of the three people we're gonna Jeremy Greer: 00:36:39 continue. It's gonna support these cases, to help work these Jeremy Greer: 00:36:42 cases with Jack. She's not supposed to be in here, and she Jeremy Greer: 00:36:45 instantly challenges Will on you know why he's not an FBI agent. Jeremy Greer: 00:36:48 He's like, Well, I keep failing the test. And she's like, well, Jeremy Greer: 00:36:52 the tests are there to detect instability. Are you Jeremy Greer: 00:36:54 unstable?And it's like, she's kind of like, she's kind of got Jeremy Greer: 00:36:57 this look on her face, like she's impressed with him because Jeremy Greer: 00:37:01 she knows who he is. Like, she's read his work. But also, like, Jeremy Greer: 00:37:04 Why aren't you in the field doing what we do? Like, why Jeremy Greer: 00:37:07 aren't you, like, a real FBI agent? Quote, unquote. And it's Jeremy Greer: 00:37:10 kind of interesting. I like, I like Beverly Katz a lot. She's Jeremy Greer: 00:37:13 gonna play a big role in the series. Marie Vigouroux: 00:37:16 And again, like, I find that that, you Marie Vigouroux: 00:37:17 know, are you unstable, is kind of charged also, right? Because Marie Vigouroux: 00:37:21 it's like, well, I mean, from what we've seen, it's possible, Marie Vigouroux: 00:37:25 and you can tell that this is a case that's being built slowly Marie Vigouroux: 00:37:28 by the show to kind of characterize Will and - and it Marie Vigouroux: 00:37:33 gets me thinking, actually, when we when we got to that point in Marie Vigouroux: 00:37:37 the episode, I was like, is this? Is this the real mystery Marie Vigouroux: 00:37:41 of the episode. Who is Will Graham? What kind of person is Marie Vigouroux: 00:37:45 he? Because as somebody who, like, doesn't know anything Marie Vigouroux: 00:37:47 about Hannibal or the Hannibal franchise, like, I know who Marie Vigouroux: 00:37:51 Hannibal Lecter is, right. Like, you can say the name, and I'm Marie Vigouroux: 00:37:54 like, okay, cannibal. Like, I know that. But who is Will Marie Vigouroux: 00:37:57 Graham, I don't know. And I feel like this is really what this, Marie Vigouroux: 00:38:01 this episode, is doing Jeremy Greer: 00:38:04 And this is almost wholly original. So Will, Graham Jeremy Greer: 00:38:08 is definitely a character in the books, like the first books are Jeremy Greer: 00:38:11 will and Hannibal. Will using Hannibal to help track down Jeremy Greer: 00:38:15 serial killers and and their relationship, like being this Jeremy Greer: 00:38:19 push and pull of information and psychiatric breakdowns and Jeremy Greer: 00:38:23 things like that. But we don't really get this adaptation of Jeremy Greer: 00:38:29 Will in the books or the movies. It's a much more straightforward Jeremy Greer: 00:38:31 approach. And so this is very, very unique. And one of the best Jeremy Greer: 00:38:35 thing, one of the things I love the most about the show is how, Jeremy Greer: 00:38:38 just how they treat Will. It's not going to be great all the Jeremy Greer: 00:38:41 time - Marie Vigouroux: 00:38:42

I can tell! Jeremy Greer: 00:38:42 But it's also very, very fascinating. Yeah, Jeremy Greer: 00:38:45 Will's going to go through, go through some stuff. Let's just Jeremy Greer: 00:38:48 say that. Marie Vigouroux: 00:38:50 Well, just the amount of blood that he was Marie Vigouroux: 00:38:51 covered in, like in this episode, I'm like, Oh man, I Marie Vigouroux: 00:38:54 feel like this is just the beginning for him. Jeremy Greer: 00:38:56 I'd be very curious. I haven't read Jeremy Greer: 00:38:57 interviews with the cast often, but you know, like filming Jeremy Greer: 00:39:01 Supernatural Jared Padaleki had issues with like, channeling Jeremy Greer: 00:39:03 Lucifer, and it caused mental health issues and things like Jeremy Greer: 00:39:06 that. He's talked very openly about that. I wonder if, how Jeremy Greer: 00:39:08 much this affected Hugh, because having to play this role with Jeremy Greer: 00:39:12 such intensity, and he does, like he keeps up this level of Jeremy Greer: 00:39:14 energy throughout the entire three seasons, is - has to Jeremy Greer: 00:39:17 affect you in some way. I'm gonna, I'm gonna look at some of Jeremy Greer: 00:39:19 that. We'll have some of that for some Marie Vigouroux: 00:39:21 Yeah, yeah, I would love to know that. I can't Jeremy Greer: 00:39:24 No, you wouldn't be able to. They would just be Marie Vigouroux: 00:39:24 Just left. He took the car and he left, hehe Marie Vigouroux: 00:39:24 look that up. Marie Vigouroux: 00:39:27 talking about the supposed season four or movie that they Marie Vigouroux: 00:39:29 keep talking about that never happened. So the ERT crew found Marie Vigouroux: 00:39:35 antler velvet in the wound. So that's a big thing. And Will Marie Vigouroux: 00:39:39 looks at this and kind of announces to the room that this Marie Vigouroux: 00:39:43 was an apology of whatever this killer was able to do to Elise Marie Vigouroux: 00:39:47 he wasn't able to do to the others. So he brought Elise back Marie Vigouroux: 00:39:49 and, like, placed her here as an apology. And then he'd like, I Marie Vigouroux: 00:39:53 assume, like we cut to just him driving home, but I just assumed Marie Vigouroux: 00:39:56 that he left the room after that because that's the kind of dude Marie Vigouroux: 00:39:59 he is, right. I'm gonna drop that weirdo, like line, and then Marie Vigouroux: 00:40:02 See you later, everybody not even to see you later, just like Marie Vigouroux: 00:40:04 a turn around and like, march down the stairs. Marie Vigouroux: 00:40:09 left Jack stranded there. Somebody else had to give him a Marie Vigouroux: 00:40:13 lift. So relatable, I feel that. Jeremy Greer: 00:40:19 Jack is driving home to his home, driving to his Jeremy Greer: 00:40:22 home in Wolf Trap Virginia, where he see, when he sees a Jeremy Greer: 00:40:26 stray dog. Fortunately, I don't think any dogs are harmed in Jeremy Greer: 00:40:31 this. I'll just go and say that out loud. It's a spoiler, pretty Jeremy Greer: 00:40:34 sure. Marie Vigouroux: 00:40:35 Oh my god, thank you so much. Jeremy Greer: 00:40:36 But it is one of those shows where you're like, Jeremy Greer: 00:40:37 Oh, they're gonna kill this damn dog, like they're gonna do Jeremy Greer: 00:40:39 something. Marie Vigouroux: 00:40:41 Listen, you saw my notes, right? I took some Marie Vigouroux: 00:40:43 handwritten notes, and I sent you a picture, and one of the Marie Vigouroux: 00:40:45 lines was, please don't kill the dog. Jeremy Greer: 00:40:48 Please, please don't kill the dog. He takes Jeremy Greer: 00:40:52 the dog home, we get like a kind of a montage of him bathing the Jeremy Greer: 00:40:56 dog and blow drying the hair, and then introducing the dog to Jeremy Greer: 00:40:59 all of his other dogs, which also look like rescues, right? Jeremy Greer: 00:41:01 Like they all look like he's got, like, five or six dogs in a Jeremy Greer: 00:41:04 pile that are just, you know, that they all seem like he is Jeremy Greer: 00:41:07 rescued. I think you mentioned this earlier, but like, just Jeremy Greer: 00:41:09 another kind of insight to his mind, of that, like, I'm sure, Jeremy Greer: 00:41:13 if you're that empathic, if you - it's that easy to see into Jeremy Greer: 00:41:17 someone else's mind, like having dog companions around to you, Jeremy Greer: 00:41:20 which is the best animal in the world? Like, can be, really, can Jeremy Greer: 00:41:23 be relieving from that. Marie Vigouroux: 00:41:25 Yeah, and just the way that he talks to them, Marie Vigouroux: 00:41:28 too, he's like, introducing them, you know, in a way that he Marie Vigouroux: 00:41:31 doesn't even introduce himself or others, like, when it comes Marie Vigouroux: 00:41:34 to people. Jeremy Greer: 00:41:35 Yeah! Marie Vigouroux: 00:41:35 He's so, I don't want to say incapable, but Marie Vigouroux: 00:41:38 he just does not do that around people. And yet, with dogs, it Marie Vigouroux: 00:41:41 just comes, like, naturally. His tone of voice is different, Marie Vigouroux: 00:41:44 like, you can just tell how much more comfortable he is around Jeremy Greer: 00:41:47 Very good observation. I didn't really Jeremy Greer: 00:41:47 these dogs. Jeremy Greer: 00:41:49 think about that as like to compare and contrast that with Jeremy Greer: 00:41:52 the treatment of people. That night, he's sleeping, and he Jeremy Greer: 00:41:56 looks over in his bed and he sees a dead Elise laying next to Jeremy Greer: 00:42:00 him, she begins to float up towards the sky, and then he Jeremy Greer: 00:42:05 wakes up in kind of a shock, and he is so sweaty from this dream Jeremy Greer: 00:42:10 that he has to, like, strip off his shirt and literally, go get Jeremy Greer: 00:42:13 a towel to put on his sheet so that he can go back to sleep. Jeremy

Greer: 00:42:17 I'm just gonna say maybe note that in your mind and - Marie Vigouroux: 00:42:21 Oh. Jeremy Greer: 00:42:22 Not gonna just, you know, hey, there's a thing Jeremy Greer: 00:42:25 that happened. Marie Vigouroux: 00:42:26 Oh no, oh no. Oh, this is how it feels. I hate Marie Vigouroux: 00:42:30 it! Jeremy Greer: 00:42:31 You are now the Drew in this relationship! Jeremy Greer: 00:42:33 For listeners that may not know on Mary's podcast, Marie Vigouroux: 00:42:33 Oh no! Marie Vigouroux: 00:42:37 Carrying Wayward about Supernatural, she does this to Marie Vigouroux: 00:42:39 Drew all the time - Marie Vigouroux: 00:42:41 All the time! And I'm so mean about it, too! Jeremy Greer: 00:42:43 And Drew takes it in stride. He's like, I'll know Jeremy Greer: 00:42:46 when it comes up, but yeah, it's - I'm going to make Mary's life Jeremy Greer: 00:42:49 miserable over the next few weeks. Marie Vigouroux: 00:42:53 I look forward to it. Thank you very much. Jeremy Greer: 00:42:58 So we go back over to Quantico. Jack is frustrated Jeremy Greer: 00:43:02 with progress on this case. He's like, literally hitting the Jeremy Greer: 00:43:04 victim board. Will is like, washing his hands in the Jeremy Greer: 00:43:08 bathroom. When Jack marches in, and if somebody like, follows Jeremy Greer: 00:43:11 him in to use the bathroom, Jack barks at him go to the women's Jeremy Greer: 00:43:13 room. It's very, it's very - Marie Vigouroux: 00:43:15 He's so mad about it. Jeremy Greer: 00:43:16 Overbearing FBI, kind of, you know, boss dude. Jeremy Greer: 00:43:20 And he tells will that he needs to be in the saddle. And, and, Jeremy Greer: 00:43:25 you know, Will is like, I'm in the saddle, I just don't know Jeremy Greer: 00:43:28 what direction I'm pacing, but he needs to know. He needs Will Jeremy Greer: 00:43:30 to break this guy down, like, and he even says he initially Jeremy Greer: 00:43:32 gets what kind of crazy is he, which is probably not an Jeremy Greer: 00:43:35 appropriate way to refer to people, but like, we're in the Jeremy Greer: 00:43:37 FBI chasing a serial killer, so I guess they get some leniency, Jeremy Greer: 00:43:40 right? Marie Vigouroux: 00:43:41 Yeah, there you go. And like, he screams that, Marie Vigouroux: 00:43:43 right? Like he's really pushing him. And this is such a stark Marie Vigouroux: 00:43:46 contrast compared to what he was doing earlier. Of like, take Marie Vigouroux: 00:43:48 your time. No worries. If you need anything, we're here, but Marie Vigouroux: 00:43:53 here because he needs the answers now, he's pushing him, Marie Vigouroux: 00:43:56 which is, again, like something where I'm like, Are you really Marie Vigouroux: 00:44:00 his friend? Or are you just using him? I don't know, and Marie Vigouroux: 00:44:03 especially when we know, as the audience, that like Will is so Marie Vigouroux: 00:44:07 clearly affected by this. Because when he's like, washing Marie Vigouroux: 00:44:10 his face before Jack comes in, he's like, seeing this blood, Marie Vigouroux: 00:44:13 like in the water, and then when he's talking to Jack, his voice Marie Vigouroux: 00:44:17 is really unsteady, and so it's like, is that the cost of his Marie Vigouroux: 00:44:21 imagination and his empathy? Jeremy Greer: 00:44:23 And we saw the difference, you mentioned this Jeremy Greer: 00:44:26 earlier, like the difference in color temperature when he's Jeremy Greer: 00:44:29 watching his face, when his face is underwater, we see that blood Jeremy Greer: 00:44:31 come in, like it's it's that warmer color again, and then we Jeremy Greer: 00:44:33 go back to reality, like almost immediately we start seeing Jeremy Greer: 00:44:36 that, like Will's barriers, his forts, as he's gonna call them Jeremy Greer: 00:44:39 earlier, are maybe not as strong as we they need to be. Will Jeremy Greer: 00:44:43 begins to kind of posit these theories about this killer, Jeremy Greer: 00:44:48 eventually getting to the point where he calls him a sensitive Jeremy Greer: 00:44:51 psychopath, because he doesn't, necessarily, he doesn't, he Jeremy Greer: 00:44:55 doesn't fit all of the traits of a quote, unquote, normal Jeremy Greer: 00:44:57 psychopath, of a regular psychopath that they would Jeremy Greer: 00:44:59 normally track down, like, he's respecting these women, he loves Jeremy Greer: 00:45:02 them even as he's killing them. And it's, you know, it's just Jeremy Greer: 00:45:07 kind of a, like, it's one of those things. I think this is Jeremy Greer: 00:45:08 supposed to be like a hook of like, Oh my God. It's sensitive Jeremy Greer: 00:45:10 psychopath. It's like one of those, like, TV show, like, Jeremy Greer: 00:45:13 gotcha kind of things. Like, we've never seen one of these Jeremy Greer: 00:45:15 before. But it also works in the in the - It works in the in the Jeremy Greer: 00:45:19 context of the show. I think. Marie Vigouroux: 00:45:21 Yeah, I think when you, when you say it like Marie Vigouroux: 00:45:23 that, it sounds a little hammy, but then, like, I wasn't even Marie Vigouroux: 00:45:27 shocked when he said it. I was like, okay, yeah, that works. Marie Vigouroux: 00:45:29 Like everything just works and flows really well. Jeremy Greer: 00:45:32 Yeah. The something we haven't really Jeremy Greer: 00:45:34 talked about, and we'll talk about more when Hannibal shows Jeremy Greer: 00:45:36 up, is that the dialog in this show is incredible. I could, I Jeremy Greer: 00:45:40 could, literally just like, quote, it's so I just write down Jeremy Greer: 00:45:43 the quotes of the show and talk about them. I love them so much. Marie Vigouroux: 00:45:47 I actually had to use, like, I went to the the Marie Vigouroux: 00:45:49 transcripts, just because, like, sometimes I have trouble with Marie

Vigouroux: 00:45:53 accents in English, and I had trouble understanding Mads a Marie Vigouroux: 00:45:55 little bit. So I was reading the transcript, and I'm like, Oh my Marie Vigouroux: 00:45:59 god. This is so good. This is amazing. Oh, my God. Oh my god. Marie Vigouroux: 00:46:02 Anyway, loved it. Jeremy Greer: 00:46:04 Beverly is slowly but surely, like scraping down Jeremy Greer: 00:46:08 Elise's dress that she was found in, and she finds something Jeremy Greer: 00:46:10 peculiar. This is going to be a metal shaving. This will be kind Jeremy Greer: 00:46:14 of our, our key to finding the killer eventually. Well, and I Jeremy Greer: 00:46:17 love I grew up reading a lot of what I like to call, like, Jeremy Greer: 00:46:20 airport books, like the Patricia Cornwell and the, you know, Jeremy Greer: 00:46:25 James Pattersons and that kind of stuff. And it's because my Jeremy Greer: 00:46:28 mom read them. So they were just the books that were around. So I Jeremy Greer: 00:46:30 just read a lot of them, and it's a lot of like, Oh, we found Jeremy Greer: 00:46:33 a tiny thing and it led to a bigger thing. And this show, Jeremy Greer: 00:46:36 especially at the beginning, the show, kind of leans on that, and Jeremy Greer: 00:46:38 it's something I like, so I wanted to call it out. Marie Vigouroux: 00:46:41 Well, yeah, it pays, it pays homage almost to Marie Vigouroux: 00:46:44 that genre of, like, of investigative, well, I think Marie Vigouroux: 00:46:48 they said investigative, uh, story beats, right? I think is, Marie Vigouroux: 00:46:51 is how he says it at the beginning. And I just thought I Marie Vigouroux: 00:46:53 was like, Okay, I know about this. I know this is familiar to Marie Vigouroux: 00:46:57 me, like I've seen this before. Jeremy Greer: 00:46:59 We go back to Quantico, where Jack is talking Jeremy Greer: 00:47:02 to a new character, Alana Bloom. She is played by Caroline Jeremy Greer: 00:47:07 Dhavernas, who is I associate with Brian Fuller's work. She's Jeremy Greer: 00:47:11 done a bunch of stuff, but she was in Wonder Fall. She was in Jeremy Greer: 00:47:13 Pushing Daisies. This is going to be - she's kind of our - I'm Jeremy Greer: 00:47:19 not going to say that out loud. Almost said that she was going Jeremy Greer: 00:47:21 to be the Castiel of this, of our trio. Marie Vigouroux: 00:47:23 Oh no! Jeremy Greer: 00:47:24 But it's not, it's not anything. I just wanted to Jeremy Greer: 00:47:26 say that she was going to show up a lot. She's going to be a Jeremy Greer: 00:47:28 main character. Don't want to have all of the implications Jeremy Greer: 00:47:33 that come from - and we haven't even decided who Sam and who's Jeremy Greer: 00:47:35 Dean yet, but that'll be, that'll be later down the line. Marie Vigouroux: 00:47:38 Maybe we can talk about that like in the Marie Vigouroux: 00:47:40 second episode. Jeremy Greer: 00:47:42 But Jack is meeting with Alana, who is a Jeremy Greer: 00:47:46 contemporary of Jack's. She teaches at Quantico. She's She Jeremy Greer: 00:47:50 was - Jack actually, excuse me, Will actually referenced her Jeremy Greer: 00:47:53 earlier, when Jack was asking him to come to indication, he Jeremy Greer: 00:47:55 was, like, you've got Alana Bloom. Like, get her to do this. Jeremy Greer: 00:47:57 Like, this is what she does. And Jack is specifically asking Jeremy Greer: 00:48:02 Alana, who is Will's friend, to basically be his psychiatric Jeremy Greer: 00:48:09 like shield. Jack says, I can keep him safe when he's out Jeremy Greer: 00:48:14 there. I can keep him covered, but maybe only 80% of the time, Jeremy Greer: 00:48:18 and I need your help with the rest. In other words, like if he Jeremy Greer: 00:48:20 gets too close to this stuff, it's gonna affect him, and we Jeremy Greer: 00:48:23 need to be aware of that and figure out how to work around Marie Vigouroux: 00:48:25 And so here she says that, you know what drives Marie Vigouroux: 00:48:25 it. Marie Vigouroux: 00:48:31 him? She asks Jack, What do you think is his strongest Marie Vigouroux: 00:48:35 motivator? And the answer to that, apparently, is fear. Fear Marie Vigouroux: 00:48:39 is the thing that drives him and again, like, I think it connects Marie Vigouroux: 00:48:44 back to this idea of, like him having nightmares. And like the Marie Vigouroux: 00:48:47 cost of his imagination, that is what happens when he starts Marie Vigouroux: 00:48:52 using it for that, for the purpose of empathizing with Marie Vigouroux: 00:48:57 serial killers, is that he becomes more and more fearful. Marie Vigouroux: 00:49:01 And maybe that's the thing that, like, breaks down some of the Marie Vigouroux: 00:49:04 barriers in his mind a little bit. Jeremy Greer: 00:49:06 Exactly. Yeah. She finishes this conversation with Jeremy Greer: 00:49:09 a - requesting a promise from Jack, don't let him get too Jeremy Greer: 00:49:12 close. And I think that plays into everything she just said, Jeremy Greer: 00:49:15 right? Like, if he gets too close to these killers, who Jeremy Greer: 00:49:18 knows what, what's going - How is going to affect him? Like, we Jeremy Greer: 00:49:20 have no idea, like, what his empathy cost him. We just don't Jeremy Greer: 00:49:23 know. And then it's time for everybody's favorite thing in a Jeremy Greer: 00:49:26 crime, since you it's time for an autopsy. Marie Vigouroux: 00:49:30 Love that! Jeremy Greer: 00:49:31 This is one of the, this is one of many moments Jeremy Greer: 00:49:33 where Will is just standing there and everybody gets very Jeremy Greer: 00:49:35 awkward around how to just, it's just, it speaks to like, you Jeremy Greer: 00:49:40 know, a him being on the spectrum and not being able to Jeremy Greer: 00:49:42 engage socially in a way that I think most people

would expect, Jeremy Greer: 00:49:46 and then also, like, he just says things just really freak Jeremy Greer: 00:49:49 everybody out. And it's so good, it's so fascinating. They're Jeremy Greer: 00:49:53 analyzing the body, and, you know, determining that, like, Jeremy Greer: 00:49:56 they this antler velvet was in her wounds. When he begins to Jeremy Greer: 00:50:01 see, kind of this vision of her mounted on a - on antlers, and Jeremy Greer: 00:50:05 he says that, like, he says it out loud, and everyone's like, Jeremy Greer: 00:50:08 all right. And then they noticed something particularly weird, Jeremy Greer: 00:50:12 which was that the deliver has been cut out and then put back Jeremy Greer: 00:50:15 in, and that causes Jack, or Will to have a, I don't know why Jeremy Greer: 00:50:19 I'm getting Jack and will confused so much. I'm so sorry Jeremy Greer: 00:50:21 everybody. Marie Vigouroux: 00:50:22 I mean, that's fine. Jeremy Greer: 00:50:23 This causes Will to kind of make one of these Jeremy Greer: 00:50:25 like, Will Graham intuitive leaps, and he says, There's Jeremy Greer: 00:50:28 something wrong with the meat. And everybody is like, What the Jeremy Greer: 00:50:31 fuck did you just say Marie Vigouroux: 00:50:33 This - It causes complete horror in the Marie Vigouroux: 00:50:36 autopsy room. Like, that's exactly what you were saying. Marie Vigouroux: 00:50:38 Like, making it weird for everybody. Like, people just, Marie Vigouroux: 00:50:41 like, slowly turn to him, like, what did you just say? Oh my Marie Vigouroux: 00:50:46 god. Jeremy Greer: 00:50:47 And we find out that Elise had liver cancer, so Jeremy Greer: 00:50:51 he cut out the liver, something bad with it. And then this makes Jeremy Greer: 00:50:55 Will realize that's the reason we're not finding the bodies, Jeremy Greer: 00:50:57 he's eating them. And then from there, we smash cut to Hannibal, Jeremy Greer: 00:51:02 and it's such a good, such a good transition. Like nobody, Jeremy Greer: 00:51:05 none of the teenagers on Tiktok can do a transition that's good. Jeremy Greer: 00:51:08 Like, it's so good. It's so so delicious. Like, I just, I love Jeremy Greer: 00:51:12 it because, and it's, I'm very curious how this lands with you. Jeremy Greer: 00:51:15 Obviously, we know Hannibal is a cannibal, so we go from he's Jeremy Greer: 00:51:17 eating them to the primary, the titular character of the show, Jeremy Greer: 00:51:21 like having a meal and listening to classical music and looking, Jeremy Greer: 00:51:24 you know, just as fancy as all get out. And I know that this is Jeremy Greer: 00:51:29 Hannibal. I'm assuming that you picked it up. That was Hannibal. Jeremy Greer: 00:51:33 But, like, did this land? Were you? Like, holy shit? Because I Jeremy Greer: 00:51:35 was like, yes, it's a really good moment. Marie Vigouroux: 00:51:39 Okay, so immediately I was like, and Marie Vigouroux: 00:51:41 that's Hannibal. Like, that's him. I know who this is. Like, I Marie Vigouroux: 00:51:44 was actually really excited, because I'm like, Okay, I know Marie Vigouroux: 00:51:46 who this is. And for a second, I sort of, like, assumed that Marie Vigouroux: 00:51:50 maybe it was him who was killing, like, these, these Marie Vigouroux: 00:51:54 girls, right? And eating them. Because I'm like, how many Marie Vigouroux: 00:51:57 possible cannibals can they possibly have in one episode. Jeremy Greer: 00:52:01 Well, it turns out! Marie Vigouroux: 00:52:04 Exactly. Which I thought was really funny. Jeremy Greer: 00:52:09 And it's such a brief scene, like, it doesn't Jeremy Greer: 00:52:11 last very long, right? Like, we see him eating, listening to Jeremy Greer: 00:52:14 classical music, and it just fades to black. It's very good. Marie Vigouroux: 00:52:18 And he's like, cutting this piece of meat that Marie Vigouroux: 00:52:20 actually really looks like liver. And I'm like, this is, is Marie Vigouroux: 00:52:24 he - Is he actually like eating, them? Like, what is happening? Jeremy Greer: 00:52:28 The food - I need to look at the name of the chef, Jeremy Greer: 00:52:30 but they have a professional chef consulting on the show to Jeremy Greer: 00:52:33 make all of the meals, like, look incredible and to look like Jeremy Greer: 00:52:38 just amazing. And you'll - throughout the show if you're, Jeremy Greer: 00:52:41 if you're a food person, like, if you like fancy meals at all, Jeremy Greer: 00:52:43 like, you're gonna be drooling, as they show you, like, all of Jeremy Greer: 00:52:46 these, all of these different dishes. But the chef is also, Jeremy Greer: 00:52:49 like, specifically consulted with how to make it look like Jeremy Greer: 00:52:52 human. Like, how to make it look like so, like the scene in a Jeremy Greer: 00:52:56 little bit where he's, like, we're gonna get with Hannibaland Jeremy Greer: 00:52:58 the lungs, like, they specifically designed that and Jeremy Greer: 00:53:00 made it look like, this is how you would prepare lungs, if you Jeremy Greer: 00:53:03 were to cook them. They just happen to be human. Like, it's, Jeremy Greer: 00:53:05 it's supposed to be extremely horrifying, but also, like, Jeremy Greer: 00:53:08 accurate at the same time, like, I think the chef was, quote, It Jeremy Greer: 00:53:10 was like, well, that's how you would that's, that's what you Jeremy Greer: 00:53:12 would want to eat from a human, is the lungs. Like, it was just Jeremy Greer: 00:53:15 one of those. It's very, very wild, Marie Vigouroux: 00:53:19 Well, there you go. Because the way that he was Marie Vigouroux: 00:53:21 preparing everything seemed really like, expertly done, Marie Vigouroux: 00:53:24 right? And so I was like, okay, yeah, this is how you would Marie Vigouroux: 00:53:27 technically prepare human lungs. I guess.

Just couldn't believe Marie Vigouroux: 00:53:31 that it felt so normalized already in my mind, oh yes. Marie Vigouroux: 00:53:34 Like, oh no. Jeremy Greer: 00:53:36 It's, it's horrific. Hannibal has a way of Jeremy Greer: 00:53:38 just like, getting you into the horror and making you like, Jeremy Greer: 00:53:41 think things are normal in a way that is very, very good. Like, I Jeremy Greer: 00:53:44 think that's the the main thing. The main draw of the character Jeremy Greer: 00:53:47 across all of the adaptations, is his ability to get into your Jeremy Greer: 00:53:51 brain and get you on his side. Marie Vigouroux: 00:53:54 Maybe that's the horror of it all, really. Jeremy Greer: 00:53:56 Yeah, absolutely. Marie Vigouroux: 00:53:57 That you start empathizing with him. Jeremy Greer: 00:53:58 Yeah, once you, once you get to the point where Jeremy Greer: 00:53:59 you're like, he's my He's my baby. I wanna put him in my Jeremy Greer: 00:54:02 pocket. I'm gonna have to remind you: He's a cannibal Mary. He Jeremy Greer: 00:54:05 eats people. He's not a good guy. Marie Vigouroux: 00:54:06 Okay, okay, you're gonna have to remind me Marie Vigouroux: 00:54:09 of that a couple of times. Okay, just letting you know already. Jeremy Greer: 00:54:14 This next scene, if we see Hannibal, he is an Jeremy Greer: 00:54:18 active psychiatrist, so he's, you know, he's seen one of his Jeremy Greer: 00:54:20 patients, a patient named Franklin um, Franklin. Franklin Jeremy Greer: 00:54:23 is struggling with his neuroses. He calls himself very neurotic. Jeremy Greer: 00:54:27 Hannibal describes it as him feeling as he was on the verge Jeremy Greer: 00:54:31 of a lion eating him, and he has to, he says, you know, the key Jeremy Greer: 00:54:35 is to make sure that you realize that the lion isn't real Jeremy Greer: 00:54:38 throughout this. This is something that Hannibal does Jeremy Greer: 00:54:40 really well, which is just gonna be anathema on this podcast , Jeremy Greer: 00:54:43 because there's like four things happening in the same scene. So Jeremy Greer: 00:54:47 the show takes five minutes to show you, like four things, and Jeremy Greer: 00:54:49 we're gonna spend 20 minutes talking about every single one Jeremy Greer: 00:54:51 of them. Marie Vigouroux: 00:54:53 That's what happens when shows are well Marie Vigouroux: 00:54:54 done, though. Jeremy Greer: 00:54:55 Absolutely, absolutely. During this, Jeremy Greer: 00:54:57 Franklin, like, holds out his hand for tissue. And Hannibal Jeremy Greer: 00:55:01 hands him one, and as he like cleans his face, Franklin Jeremy Greer: 00:55:05 reaches over and places a use tissue just on the table beside Jeremy Greer: 00:55:08 him, on the side table, and you can see the absolute displeasure Jeremy Greer: 00:55:13 in Hannibal's face ss this happens. He is disgusted by this Jeremy Greer: 00:55:17 act, and you could

just see like he just, he has just such utter, Jeremy Greer: 00:55:21 just hatred for Franklin doing this. It's so good Mads does Jeremy Greer: 00:55:26 this so well. I just, I am astonished with how good he does Jeremy Greer: 00:55:29 this with like, Oh, look. Marie Vigouroux: 00:55:31 He is honestly like, Okay, so the first time I Marie Vigouroux: 00:55:35 saw him on screen as Hannibal, already, you can tell that like Marie Vigouroux: 00:55:39 he's going to be amazing. But then in this scene, I found Marie Vigouroux: 00:55:43 that, like, he plays really well on the dramatic irony I find Marie Vigouroux: 00:55:48 because, like, we know who Hannibal Lecter is, and there's Marie Vigouroux: 00:55:52 a feeling of imminent danger, right when he talks about, like Marie Vigouroux: 00:55:55 the lion on the verge of eating, on the verge of eating the Marie Vigouroux: 00:55:58 patient, I was like, Oh my God. Is he actually gonna eat him? Marie Vigouroux: 00:56:01 Like, is he gonna kill him? Is that what's gonna happen? And Marie Vigouroux: 00:56:04 now he's pissed him off. He's for sure, gonna eat him. And so Marie Vigouroux: 00:56:07 like you feel this feeling of danger as the audience like you, Marie Vigouroux: 00:56:11 and that's exactly what he's talking about. I just - mind Marie Vigouroux: 00:56:16 blown. Jeremy Greer: 00:56:16 So good. As they're exiting, they find Jack Jeremy Greer: 00:56:21 Crawford waiting in the exit path. And Hannibal doesn't like Jeremy Greer: 00:56:24 this either. He notes that this is a private exit for his Jeremy Greer: 00:56:27 patients. And there's some like, back and forth, where, I think Jeremy Greer: 00:56:31 Hannibal says, unless you're here for Franklin, and Jack is Jeremy Greer: 00:56:34 like, No, I'm only here for you. And like, Franklin is looking Jeremy Greer: 00:56:38 back and forth, is like, it's a tennis match, like he has no Jeremy Greer: 00:56:40 idea what to say, like he's in the room with one of my favorite Jeremy Greer: 00:56:44 moments of Supernatural - Listeners, we're gonna talk Jeremy Greer: 00:56:46 about Supernatural a lot on this podcast, so apologies in Jeremy Greer: 00:56:48 advance, but I think it's season one where they meet the siren, Jeremy Greer: 00:56:51 and the siren like infects both of their brains, and the two Jeremy Greer: 00:56:54 brothers are arguing with each other, and the siren just like, Jeremy Greer: 00:56:56 literally sits down and gets comfortable and looks back and Jeremy Greer: 00:56:59 forth. Like Franklin has that exact vibe. He's just look like, Jeremy Greer: 00:57:03 what is happening with all these people that are above me, Jeremy Greer: 00:57:05 basically. Hannibal does the this great move where he's like, Jeremy Greer: 00:57:10 you can come in, but you need to wait into my in my lobby for a Jeremy Greer: 00:57:13 little while. Love that. I love this. Marie Vigouroux: 00:57:15 Power move. Jeremy Greer: 00:57:15 Absolutely. Marie Vigouroux: 00:57:16 Power move. Good for him. Jeremy Greer: 00:57:18 And then there's this, when Jack is finally let Jeremy Greer: 00:57:20 in, they don't know one another, but they know of one another, Jeremy Greer: 00:57:25 Jack starts making some pretty astute observations about Jeremy Greer: 00:57:29 Hannibal's history, like he's read papers he was referred to Jeremy Greer: 00:57:32 and by AlanaBloom. You can tell Hannibal at first, is very Jeremy Greer: 00:57:36 standoffish, like is this man investigating me? Marie Vigouroux: 00:57:39 I know, yeah! Jeremy Greer: 00:57:40 And it's, it's crazy, because, like, the only Jeremy Greer: 00:57:43 thing you know about you, specifically Mary, know about Jeremy Greer: 00:57:45 Hannibal is that he's a serial killer. Like, so presumably, Jeremy Greer: 00:57:50 like, he's, he's, he's been killing some people serially, Jeremy Greer: 00:57:53 and like, He's worried that the FBI just showed up at his door, Jeremy Greer: 00:57:56 but we don't know that in the context of the show, right? Jeremy Greer: 00:57:58 Like, we haven't seen him do anything yet, yeah? Marie Vigouroux: 00:58:00 Yeah. But, like, that's always a bad sign, Marie Vigouroux: 00:58:02 right? If you're, if you're out there killing people and like, Marie Vigouroux: 00:58:05 the FBI shows up at your - bad sign. Just bad vibes all around. Marie Vigouroux: 00:58:09 So I get that he would be, like, very standoffish. Jeremy Greer: 00:58:14 There's a lot of really tiny details that speak Jeremy Greer: 00:58:16 to Hannibal's fastidiousness that I want to talk about. We're Jeremy Greer: 00:58:20 gonna we're gonna encounter this throughout the show, like we Jeremy Greer: 00:58:22 just saw it with the disused tissue. Jack walks over and sees Jeremy Greer: 00:58:26 Hannibal's drawings, and they're these architectural drawings of Jeremy Greer: 00:58:29 his boyhood school. That's actually kind of a thing that Jeremy Greer: 00:58:33 gets explored a lot. Thomas Harris doesn't do a really good Jeremy Greer: 00:58:35 job with like, the Hannibal origin stories, but fortunately, Jeremy Greer: 00:58:38 we don't have to worry about that. So don't. We could just Jeremy Greer: 00:58:40 get past it. But it's these really, really detailed Jeremy Greer: 00:58:43 architectural drawings. And when Jack observes that Hannibal Jeremy Greer: 00:58:46 says, I've always felt like it you get a better point to a Jeremy Greer: 00:58:48 pencil with a scalpel rather than a pencil sharpener, and we Jeremy Greer: 00:58:51 see him sharpening a pencil. And like the idea that he's using a Jeremy Greer: 00:58:55 very precise, sharp instrument to do a run, to be like a rough Jeremy Greer: 00:59:00 cut, is something that I find fascinating. Like it speaks to Jeremy Greer: 00:59:02 his ability to control things

around him, to control these Jeremy Greer: 00:59:05 tiny details. It's just - Marie Vigouroux: 00:59:07 His ability or his need? Jeremy Greer: 00:59:09 Both, absolutely, both, yes, absolutely, Marie Vigouroux: 00:59:13 because, because, to me, like this seems Marie Vigouroux: 00:59:15 almost compulsive where it's like, I need to make this like, Marie Vigouroux: 00:59:18 as as fine a point as possible. And I'm like, not that I relate Marie Vigouroux: 00:59:22 to that in any way, shape or form, but maybe I do a little Marie Vigouroux: 00:59:25 bit. Jeremy Greer: 00:59:26 No, I think it's - I think the term OCD is throwing Jeremy Greer: 00:59:30 around, probably without regard to its actual origin or Jeremy Greer: 00:59:32 anything. So I don't really want to use that, but it's that's Jeremy Greer: 00:59:34 kind of about, I stress the word fastidiousness of him, wanting Jeremy Greer: 00:59:37 to control those things around him, his need to have things Jeremy Greer: 00:59:40 precise, just the way that he wants them. And we're going to Jeremy Greer: 00:59:43 see that reflected across the series. This is going to be a Jeremy Greer: 00:59:45 big thing as part it's like one of the big, like, Hallmark Jeremy Greer: 00:59:49 character traits of Hannibal. Which is why, when you see him Jeremy Greer: 00:59:53 in prison, like in the movies, it's so fascinating, right? Jeremy Greer: 00:59:56 Because he doesn't have any of that stuff around him. So it's, Jeremy Greer: 00:59:58 you know, that's - Marie Vigouroux: 01:00:00 Arguably has no control whatsoever, right? Jeremy Greer: 01:00:06 Jack is making small talk, and it's kind of, Jeremy Greer: 01:00:09 it's kind of a weird back and forth, and you have this note in Jeremy Greer: 01:00:11 here, like, was he flattering him? You don't really know what Jeremy Greer: 01:00:14 Jack is doing here. Like, we know that he's kind of Jeremy Greer: 01:00:17 recruiting Hannibal, but we don't know, like, what why, or Jeremy Greer: 01:00:21 what that relationship is, and he kind of wants to seem Jeremy Greer: 01:00:22 Yeah, on anything that's going on. Okay, cool. Jeremy Greer: 01:00:23 standoffish to Hannibal, but the same time, he calls himself, Jeremy Greer: 01:00:26 like a literal layman, compared to Hannibal's skills when it Jeremy Greer: 01:00:29 turns comes to, like, understanding the psychology. Jeremy Greer: 01:00:32 Because when he you know compliments, Hannibal, Hannibal Jeremy Greer: 01:00:34 is like, Well, you're the head dude at the FBI, bro, like you Jeremy Greer: 01:00:38 control the behavioral unit at the FBI. Like, you have to Jeremy Greer: 01:00:41 understand this stuff, and Jack flips it right. He's like, no, Jeremy Greer: 01:00:43 no. But compared to you, I'm a layman, which is another again, Jeremy Greer: 01:00:47 is Jack using people as tools, or is he just saying stuff that Jeremy Greer: 01:00:50 he actually means so? Marie Vigouroux: 01:00:52 Well, there you go. Because if he's if he really Marie Vigouroux: 01:00:54 means that, then like, it means that he was clearly star struck Marie Vigouroux: 01:00:57 by this person. But also it like, I don't see somebody who Marie Vigouroux: 01:01:01 becomes, like, the director of the behavioral unit, or whatever Marie Vigouroux: 01:01:05 it is - his title is as somebody who would be, like, insecure, Marie Vigouroux: 01:01:09 necessarily, right? Like they have to know that they can get Marie Vigouroux: 01:01:11 the job done. Like, if you're solving murders, like one would Marie Vigouroux: 01:01:14 assume that you need to have that kind of like grounding. So Marie Vigouroux: 01:01:18 like to see him being like, Oh no, but I'm just a layman, like, Marie Vigouroux: 01:01:21 it just doesn't feel genuine. It doesn't feel right in that way. Marie Vigouroux: 01:01:27 So again, I feel like I'm much more questioning of Jack's Marie Vigouroux: 01:01:32 intentions than Hannibal's, because Hannibal, I know, like Marie Vigouroux: 01:01:35 serial killer, but Jack, I don't know. Jeremy Greer: 01:01:40 I love that. Marie Vigouroux: 01:01:40 No, but it's easy, right? Like just boom, Marie Vigouroux: 01:01:43 label. Jeremy Greer: 01:01:44 Absolutely love that. So Jack brings hand well Jeremy Greer: 01:01:47 to his office, we learned that a local police has leaked the Jeremy Greer: 01:01:52 image of Elise's dead body, which has caused a surge in Jeremy Greer: 01:01:55 false confessions after it was posted on is it the Tattletale Jeremy Greer: 01:02:00 or the Tatler Freddie, Freddie Lounds', you know, we're gonna, Jeremy Greer: 01:02:05 we're gonna learn a lot more about Freddie. So don't, don't Jeremy Greer: 01:02:07 worry, just put that in your back pocket for now. Marie Vigouroux: 01:02:08 Okay, because I saw something, actually, because Marie Vigouroux: 01:02:11 I looked up like the cast, because I wanted to know who the Marie Vigouroux: 01:02:13 cast was, and then I saw that like, Freddie shows up. Like, Marie Vigouroux: 01:02:17 like, it seems like there's something about that character Marie Vigouroux: 01:02:20 that shows up again. Jeremy Greer: 01:02:21 Oh yeah, we're gonna learn who she is. Marie Vigouroux: 01:02:24 Oh man. Jeremy Greer: 01:02:24 We'll talk about it when we get there too. But Jeremy Greer: 01:02:26 that character is also in the books, but as a male character, Jeremy Greer: 01:02:29 and they made her a female character here, which I find Jeremy Greer: 01:02:31 very fascinating. Will calls this tasteless and this is will Jeremy Greer: 01:02:37 and Hannibal meeting for the first time. And immediately they Jeremy Greer: 01:02:42 get into this, like, almost sparring dialog, where they're Jeremy Greer: 01:02:46 going back and forth. And I wish I could just transcribe the Jeremy

Greer: 01:02:49 whole thing and say it out, but like, it's just because kind of Jeremy Greer: 01:02:52 respond, like, do you have issues with taste? And they go Jeremy Greer: 01:02:54 back and forth between like, then they start talking about Jeremy Greer: 01:02:57 the forts in their mind, preventing things from going Jeremy Greer: 01:02:59 back forth. And like, maybe the forts aren't as good as you Jeremy Greer: 01:03:02 think. Like, it's just like they're already trying to, like, Jeremy Greer: 01:03:04 dissect one another. It's just an instant that they get there. Marie Vigouroux: 01:03:07 Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Jeremy Greer: 01:03:09 Hannibal notes that will doesn't like to make Jeremy Greer: 01:03:11 eye contact, and will says that it affects his focus when you Jeremy Greer: 01:03:14 can see all those things that people want and need and like, Jeremy Greer: 01:03:17 as he's saying this, he looks Hannibal in the eyes, and like, Jeremy Greer: 01:03:20 the two of them are just locked in with each other almost Jeremy Greer: 01:03:23 immediately. Marie Vigouroux: 01:03:23 So it seems like this is the first time Marie Vigouroux: 01:03:25 that, like, Will is actually looking Hannibal in the eye Marie Vigouroux: 01:03:28 right, like, because there's a the comment about eye contact, Marie Vigouroux: 01:03:31 and then will looks up at him, and the look that Hannibal gives Marie Vigouroux: 01:03:35 Will when he's actually looking up at him, like, completely Marie Vigouroux: 01:03:39 smitten, like this, man already has Hannibal in his pocket. Marie Vigouroux: 01:03:44 100%. Jeremy Greer: 01:03:47 Just done, just like, immediately, like Hannibal Jeremy Greer: 01:03:49 is, like, this is the most interesting person I've ever met Jeremy Greer: 01:03:50 in my entire life. Like, I have to have him. Marie Vigouroux: 01:03:53 I have to have him! Jeremy Greer: 01:03:55 I need that man! Marie Vigouroux: 01:03:59 I need him now. I love that. And he says, You Marie Vigouroux: 01:04:02 know, I imagine that what you see and learn touches everything Marie Vigouroux: 01:04:05 else in your mind, your values and decency are present yet Marie Vigouroux: 01:04:08 shocked at your associations, appalled at your dreams. Oh! Jeremy Greer: 01:04:13 So good. It's so good. Mary. Like, just like, Jeremy Greer: 01:04:16 this is on, this is on mainstream television, right? Jeremy Greer: 01:04:18 Like, this is the like, I just like, it's so beautifully Jeremy Greer: 01:04:21 written for - and there's, there's going to be so much of Jeremy Greer: 01:04:24 this, even in this episode later, when they're sitting down Jeremy Greer: 01:04:27 with breakfast, like, the back and forth, there is incredible. Marie Vigouroux: 01:04:30 Oh, the breakfast scene. OhGod, I love Marie Vigouroux: 01:04:32 it. Jeremy Greer: 01:04:33 This is at the point where will realize is Jeremy Greer: 01:04:34 like, are you? Are you profiling me? Like, are you? And he's and Jeremy Greer: 01:04:38 he's so offended, he's absolutely offended. He and he Jeremy Greer: 01:04:41 and he yells at Jack, like, who's whose profile is he Jeremy Greer: 01:04:43 working on? And he like, storms out of the room because he has Jeremy Greer: 01:04:47 to go, like, teach a class. And I - it's, you could tell he is Jeremy Greer: 01:04:51 just so angry about this. Marie Vigouroux: 01:04:54 He's really upset about it. And I think Marie Vigouroux: 01:04:55 obviously, like, with reason, because he wasn't really told Marie Vigouroux: 01:04:58 that he was going to be profiled in this moment, right? I think Marie Vigouroux: 01:05:02 that shows one that he's able to tell that he's being profiled, Marie Vigouroux: 01:05:05 which I really, really appreciate it. And again, like, Marie Vigouroux: 01:05:08 as a first time watcher, this is where I felt that we were Marie Vigouroux: 01:05:12 getting a little bit into, like, the theme and even the meta of Marie Vigouroux: 01:05:15 the episode, right? Because I am, like, I've been saying, much Marie Vigouroux: 01:05:19 more interested in who Will is, than, like, whoever this Marie Vigouroux: 01:05:24 cannibal killer is, and even Hannibal, to a certain degree, Marie Vigouroux: 01:05:28 right? Like, Will, I'm like, that's who I'm interested in Marie Vigouroux: 01:05:32 getting to know. And so, like, you can tell that he's very Marie Vigouroux: 01:05:35 upset about that, that he's finding himself the main Marie Vigouroux: 01:05:38 character in this particular circumstance without his Marie Vigouroux: 01:05:42 consent, right? Even though the show is called Hannibal, really Marie Vigouroux: 01:05:45 what we're learning about right now is Will Graham. Jeremy Greer: 01:05:47 And I think that's the thing that the show does, Jeremy Greer: 01:05:50 that makes it work so well, is that Hannibal is definitely a Jeremy Greer: 01:05:54 main character. But you would assume that the show named Jeremy Greer: 01:05:56 Hannibal would have Hannibal like he would be the main dude Jeremy Greer: 01:05:59 every single week. And it's actually not, it's a much more Jeremy Greer: 01:06:03 of a story about Will Graham specifically, Will Graham's Jeremy Greer: 01:06:05 relationship with Hannibal. And I find that like, because you Jeremy Greer: 01:06:08 could never sell a show named Will Graham like, nobody would Jeremy Greer: 01:06:11 know what you were doing. But to have the like go into this Jeremy Greer: 01:06:14 amount of depth of Will's mind and and have it like, have it Jeremy Greer: 01:06:18 almost reflected by Hannibal, is just a crazy way to approach the Jeremy Greer: 01:06:23 story. And I'm I think it's one thing that gets me so excited Jeremy Greer: 01:06:25 about it is it's such a fresh take on all of the Hannibal Jeremy Greer: 01:06:28 lore.

Marie Vigouroux: 01:06:30 I mean, I think that the word reflected is Marie Vigouroux: 01:06:32 really, really well chosen here, because we're going to see that Marie Vigouroux: 01:06:36 literally in the next scene. But before we move on, like will Marie Vigouroux: 01:06:39 does say like you won't like me when I'm psychoanalyzed, which, Marie Vigouroux: 01:06:43 again, felt very, which, obviously, like, is a Hulk Marie Vigouroux: 01:06:46 reference, you won't like me when I'm angry, but like, felt Marie Vigouroux: 01:06:49 very charged and ominous, again. Like, what is this about this Marie Vigouroux: 01:06:53 guy that, like, he doesn't want people to get to know him at Marie Vigouroux: 01:06:56 all. Like, is it only about the autism, or is it about other Marie Vigouroux: 01:07:00 stuff too. Jeremy Greer: 01:07:03 Will leaves in a huff, and Jack warns Hannibal, Jeremy Greer: 01:07:06 like, Hey, you probably shouldn't poke will. And Jeremy Greer: 01:07:09 Hannibal says that will has something special. He has pure Jeremy Greer: 01:07:11 empathy, and he believes that he can help. And he calls Will, Jeremy Greer: 01:07:15 good Will, I can help good Will find your killer, and I it's Jeremy Greer: 01:07:20 very fascinating to me that he calls him good Will here. Just Jeremy Greer: 01:07:24 there's obviously, like Goodwill is a phrase, and obviously it's Jeremy Greer: 01:07:28 adding good as an adjective to Will's name, like giving him, we Jeremy Greer: 01:07:31 haven't actually seen, will be good. And it's almost like Jeremy Greer: 01:07:35 Hannibal is using it sarcastically in the same way Jeremy Greer: 01:07:37 that Will, like, kind of rebuffed the idea of an evil, Jeremy Greer: 01:07:42 evil genius name as hammy. Here's Hannibal using good as an Jeremy Greer: 01:07:46 adjective, also kind of hammy, but using it sarcastically. And Jeremy Greer: 01:07:49 I find that just was one of those things that, like, Jeremy Greer: 01:07:53 sometimes I say, like, I don't know if that was intentional. It Jeremy Greer: 01:07:55 was probably 100% intentional. That's probably absolutely doing Jeremy Greer: 01:07:57 stuff. Marie Vigouroux: 01:07:59 I mean, it seems like it was, because Marie Vigouroux: 01:08:00 later, I think he says something about Uncle Jack, right? Jeremy Greer: 01:08:03 Yes. Marie Vigouroux: 01:08:03 Which, yeah, again, is like a way to show Marie Vigouroux: 01:08:08 that he knows exactly who this person like, what this person is Marie Vigouroux: 01:08:12 about. Probably much more than I do at this point in the series. Jeremy Greer: 01:08:18 We cut from this directly into several crows Jeremy Greer: 01:08:21 eating a corpse mounted on deer antlers. Our ERT crew there, Jeremy Greer: 01:08:26 Beverly and the boys, as I'm going to call him from now on, I Jeremy Greer: 01:08:28 just admitted that, and I love it, because I don't remember the Jeremy Greer: 01:08:30 other two's name. Beverly, the boys are there, and the boys are Jeremy Greer: 01:08:34 saying that the papers are now calling this killer the Jeremy Greer: 01:08:37 Minnesota shrike, because the shrike is a bird that, like, Jeremy Greer: 01:08:40 actually, like, punctures its kills onto sticks and branches Jeremy Greer: 01:08:43 and stuff. And Will, it's kind of fascinating to watch Will at Jeremy Greer: 01:08:50 this crime scene because he's extremely bothered by it. And Jeremy Greer: 01:08:53 we've seen him see violence and not necessarily be affected Jeremy Greer: 01:08:56 about it. We've seen him do violence, like in the imagine - Jeremy Greer: 01:08:59 his imagination. But here he's almost like, it's almost like Jeremy Greer: 01:09:02 his senses are confused, and it's and it's a fascinating Jeremy Greer: 01:09:07 progression as we go through the scene, as will realizes, like, Jeremy Greer: 01:09:10 this is a presentation, like the killer wanted us to see this. He Jeremy Greer: 01:09:14 doesn't respect this woman, and he starts to realize this is not Jeremy Greer: 01:09:18 the same killer. There's no he calls this field Kabuki, which Jeremy Greer: 01:09:23 is an incredible line, incredible phrasing. Field Jeremy Greer: 01:09:26 Kabuki is amazing. In hindsight, we should have just named the Jeremy Greer: 01:09:29 podcast field Kabuki. I didn't even think about it. There's Jeremy Greer: 01:09:32 still time. We haven't done anything yet. We'll just - We'll Jeremy Greer: 01:09:36 just go edit it all of the Rude Eats out. Marie Vigouroux: 01:09:41 Imagine all you hear is like, and this is - Together: 01:09:43 Field Kabuki. Jeremy Greer: 01:09:48 And he basically comes to the conclusion that Jeremy Greer: 01:09:51 this is not the same killer. And we learn that this body is Jeremy Greer: 01:09:56 missing the lungs. I think it's at this point we start flashing Jeremy Greer: 01:09:59 back to, we start cutting to not flashing back, but cutting to Jeremy Greer: 01:10:02 Hannibal in his kitchen. Nothing sexier than a competent man, Jeremy Greer: 01:10:08 everybody just so firmly preparing human lungs for Jeremy Greer: 01:10:12 consumption. Just it's incredible. Marie Vigouroux: 01:10:17 I should not find it hot to watch somebody Marie Vigouroux: 01:10:20 prepare human lungs - Jeremy Greer: 01:10:22 You shouldn't. Marie Vigouroux: 01:10:22 - for dinner. Jeremy Greer: 01:10:24 You shouldn't. Marie Vigouroux: 01:10:24 I shouldn't. Jeremy Greer: 01:10:25 That's a question here on the FBI agent exam. Marie Vigouroux: 01:10:30 I would fail, apparently. Because, like, it's Marie Vigouroux: 01:10:33 just - I see what people say now about how much they love the Marie Vigouroux: 01:10:39 character Hannibal. And I'm like, Oh no, I'm one of those! Jeremy Greer: 01:10:44 Yeah, it's gonna be hard to resist. I feel like Marie

Vigouroux: 01:10:46 I feel like maybe he has different ways of Marie Vigouroux: 01:10:46 people who got into Sherlock, who were like, kind of either Marie Vigouroux: 01:10:50 romanticize, either romantically or just, like, ideally, like, Marie Vigouroux: 01:10:53 wanted to, wanted, like, really got into that TV, the BBC of Marie Vigouroux: 01:10:56 Sherlock, like, fell even harder for Hannibal in the show, Marie Vigouroux: 01:11:00 because it's like that times 1000 because he's he's so just Marie Vigouroux: 01:11:03 impeccable, and he's so competent, and he's so confident Marie Vigouroux: 01:11:06 that it's really, really hard to resist him. And I mentioned that Marie Vigouroux: 01:11:10 earlier, of like, one of the character traits of Hannibal is Marie Vigouroux: 01:11:13 getting him is he gets you on his side. And we're gonna see Marie Vigouroux: 01:11:16 that throughout this. And there's always, like, a thread Marie Vigouroux: 01:11:20 of terror as characters meet Hannibal, and they're charmed by Marie Vigouroux: 01:11:23 him, because, of course, he's a very charming man, like, he's a Marie Vigouroux: 01:11:26 professional. He's helping out the FBI, like we they don't Marie Vigouroux: 01:11:30 know. So it's terrifying when it when you realize, like, Ah.. Marie Vigouroux: 01:11:37 like, charming people, right? Different like, obviously, Marie Vigouroux: 01:11:40 because he's a psychiatrist too. He's able to tell, like, who Marie Vigouroux: 01:11:42 needs, who needs, quote, unquote, what. And I think that Marie Vigouroux: 01:11:45 he got me with competence, like, immediately I was like, oh, Marie Vigouroux: 01:11:48 okay, all right, okay, I'm in Jeremy Greer: 01:11:52 All the way in. Marie Vigouroux: 01:11:53 Yeah! Jeremy Greer: 01:11:54 Jack also starts, excuse me, not Jack, Will starts Jeremy Greer: 01:11:57 to have these realizations of what the actual killer is. He Jeremy Greer: 01:12:01 starts realizing that the killer has a daughter because of the Jeremy Greer: 01:12:05 way that he's like, respecting these women, and as he's like, Jeremy Greer: 01:12:08 having these realizations, it's overwhelming him. And he begins Jeremy Greer: 01:12:11 to leave, and he's saying all of this out loud so that everybody Jeremy Greer: 01:12:13 can hear. Beverly and the boys are just like, not this again. Marie Vigouroux: 01:12:17 Like, oh no. Jeremy Greer: 01:12:18 Jack is like, Well, what about the copycat Jeremy Greer: 01:12:20 killer? And Will says kind of dismissively, asked Dr Lecter, Jeremy Greer: 01:12:23 you seem very impressed with his opinion, and already some, like Jeremy Greer: 01:12:28 a little bit of maybe professional jealousy happening? Marie Vigouroux: 01:12:32 Yeah. Jeremy Greer: 01:12:33 Like I was Jack's special child. And now, now Jeremy Greer: 01:12:36 there's another special child. Marie Vigouroux: 01:12:37 Which is funny, because earlier in the episode, Marie Vigouroux: 01:12:41 he was like, go see Alana Bloom. She does the same thing that I Marie Vigouroux: 01:12:43 do no worries, like he was directing him towards somebody Marie Vigouroux: 01:12:46 else. But here there's like, a little like, go see Dr Lecter, Marie Vigouroux: 01:12:49 then, you know? Jeremy Greer: 01:12:50 Exactly, professional jealousy. And also, Jeremy Greer: 01:12:52 like, a little bit of like, kickback, just against him being Jeremy Greer: 01:12:57 profiled against his will, right? Like,also, like that Jeremy Greer: 01:13:00 whole profiling thing we didn't mention, but just another Jeremy Greer: 01:13:02 example of Jack. Another example of Jack using people as tools Jeremy Greer: 01:13:04 and not respecting them as humans. Because, like, the idea Jeremy Greer: 01:13:07 of, like, your co worker profiling you professionally is Jeremy Greer: 01:13:11 wild. Like, that's horrifying, right? Marie Vigouroux: 01:13:13 Like, I feel like that's not ethical with Marie Vigouroux: 01:13:16 them, even within the FBI. Jeremy Greer: 01:13:18 I would not think so at all. Marie Vigouroux: 01:13:20 Listen, like, I'm very much of the opinion Marie Vigouroux: 01:13:23 that like ACAB, but, you know, I feel like there's still, like, a Marie Vigouroux: 01:13:26 professional code of ethics that one should be following. Jeremy Greer: 01:13:29 Sure.That night at the hotel Jack has, I think I'm Jeremy Greer: 01:13:36 willing to say this his first vision of the stag. This is a, Jeremy Greer: 01:13:41 this is a, it's a very threatening looking deer. I Jeremy Greer: 01:13:45 guess it seems diminishing to call it just a deer, because the Jeremy Greer: 01:13:49 thing is like black in this full on spread of antlers. It's very Jeremy Greer: 01:13:54 terrifying. It looks like it's like ramping up to charge Jack, Jeremy Greer: 01:13:57 and we only see it for a little while. But it does. It does this Jeremy Greer: 01:14:00 vision does consume him for a moment in the shower. Marie Vigouroux: 01:14:04 Well, see, it's interesting that you say we, we Marie Vigouroux: 01:14:06 get his first vision of the stag, because, like, I know that Marie Vigouroux: 01:14:08 there are, there isn't another one in this or I don't think Marie Vigouroux: 01:14:12 that there is another one in this episode, so I'm assuming Marie Vigouroux: 01:14:15 that there's going to be more later. But I thought that it was Marie Vigouroux: 01:14:17 really interesting that, like, the stag was used, like, as a, Marie Vigouroux: 01:14:23 as a visual here, right? Of course, it was 2013 so like, Marie Vigouroux: 01:14:27 antlers were, like a big thing, like, within, uh, pop culture Marie Vigouroux: 01:14:30 and whatnot. So, like, there were antlers everywhere, just Marie Vigouroux: 01:14:32 like, mustaches and whatnot. It was just that time. Jeremy Greer:

01:14:35 Wait, antlers were big in 2013 did I miss this? I Jeremy Greer: 01:14:38 don't. Why were they what was happening? Were people wearing Jeremy Greer: 01:14:41 antlers. Marie Vigouroux: 01:14:42 No but it was like, You know that thing where, Marie Vigouroux: 01:14:44 like, there were, there was, like, a lot of like flannel with Marie Vigouroux: 01:14:47 like antlers, like, it was like the aesthetic of the time. Jeremy Greer: 01:14:52 I did not know this. I grew up so country, Jeremy Greer: 01:14:55 like, all of my family had like deer heads on the wall with like Jeremy Greer: 01:14:58 antler spreads from deer that they killed and things. So like, Jeremy Greer: 01:15:01 I like the idea of that being an esthetic in 2013 is wild to me. Jeremy Greer: 01:15:04 I never saw that, and that's hilarious. Marie Vigouroux: 01:15:06 But to be fair, it wasn't actual antlers. It was Marie Vigouroux: 01:15:09 like drawings of antlers that people would put up in their Marie Vigouroux: 01:15:12 homes. Now keep in mind that I also grew up with, like, actual Marie Vigouroux: 01:15:16 deer heads, like and antlers in my grandparents home. So, like, Marie Vigouroux: 01:15:21 I'm very aware of that, and it was very weird in, like, around, Marie Vigouroux: 01:15:24 like, 2010 to 2013 to see all of these things. But it was a Marie Vigouroux: 01:15:28 thing, I promise you. Jeremy Greer: 01:15:29 That is wild. I'm so into it. Marie Vigouroux: 01:15:31 But I so I thought that it was weird Marie Vigouroux: 01:15:33 because, like, so the stag, like, traditionally, visually, Marie Vigouroux: 01:15:36 kind of represents, like, masculinity, paternity and, Marie Vigouroux: 01:15:41 like, the patriarchy. And so I thought that it was interesting Marie Vigouroux: 01:15:44 for this particular story to have, like the victims hoisted Marie Vigouroux: 01:15:48 up on this symbol. So now I'm like, oh my god, does it become Marie Vigouroux: 01:15:52 like something else later? So now I'm very intrigued. Jeremy Greer: 01:15:55 I do. I want to mention that joke that Autumn Jeremy Greer: 01:15:57 made as we're watching this, because obviously, like, we've Jeremy Greer: 01:15:59 seen this a bunch before, so like, she's in the background, Jeremy Greer: 01:16:02 like play on her phone and doing all that kind of stuff, and also Jeremy Greer: 01:16:04 watching the show. And when this scene happened, she just looked Jeremy Greer: 01:16:06 over and she goes, Man, Will's Patronus is so much better than Jeremy Greer: 01:16:09 Harry's. And I just - just thought that was the funniest Jeremy Greer: 01:16:14 thing of like, this dude does look a lot cooler than Harry's Jeremy Greer: 01:16:17 Patronus. I will say that. Marie Vigouroux: 01:16:19 Yeah, that's true. That's true. Jeremy Greer: 01:16:21 The next morning, Hannibal knocks on Will's door. Jeremy Greer: 01:16:25 They're going to be working together today. Jack is a court Jeremy Greer: 01:16:27 like in court, so it's just going to be the two of them. And Jeremy Greer: 01:16:32 he is, once again, this fastidiousness. He's very Jeremy Greer: 01:16:34 careful with what he puts in his food, or he puts in his body, as Jeremy Greer: 01:16:37 he says, so he's brought his own breakfast. He's broughta protein Jeremy Greer: 01:16:41 scramble. I - every time you see Hannibal eat with another person Jeremy Greer: 01:16:46 and he's offering them food, it is so fraught. You just know Jeremy Greer: 01:16:51 that he is like, is he feeding people? Does it? Is it Jeremy Greer: 01:16:56 happening? And there's, like, all these little moments that Jeremy Greer: 01:16:59 make you, like, his Jack, like, grabs a piece of sausage, and Jeremy Greer: 01:17:01 he's like, that's really good. Like, it's like, a genuine Jeremy Greer: 01:17:03 moment of like, wow, this is good sausage kind of thing. Jeremy Greer: 01:17:07 And every single time I'm gonna It's so stressful, it never gets Jeremy Greer: 01:17:12 easier to watch. Like, you just, oh no, yeah, every single time Jeremy Greer: 01:17:16 this happens. And then this conversation around them, where, Jeremy Greer: 01:17:20 obviously, there's from Will's perspective, there's a there's a Jeremy Greer: 01:17:23 there's a discord between the two of them. Hannibal is very Jeremy Greer: 01:17:26 much, I feel like he's he's trying here. He's, like, wants Jeremy Greer: 01:17:31 to - Marie Vigouroux: 01:17:31 Yeah because he loves him. Jeremy Greer: 01:17:33 Yeah, absolutely. Marie Vigouroux: 01:17:34 There you go. Already. Jeremy Greer: 01:17:35 He wants to possess him. He wants to possess Jeremy Greer: 01:17:37 him. He wants to, like, own this, this, this weird brain Jeremy Greer: 01:17:40 that he is envisioning,and it's, you know, this conversation back Jeremy Greer: 01:17:44 and forth where, and Hannibal even says, like, we, you know, Jeremy Greer: 01:17:47 we can socialize like adults, God forbid we come friends. And Jeremy Greer: 01:17:51 Will says, kind of passionately, I don't find you that Jeremy Greer: 01:17:54 interesting. And Hannibal just looks at him and says, You will Jeremy Greer: 01:17:58 like, Oh, my God. Marie Vigouroux: 01:18:00 I was like, Oh, okay. And it's also interesting, Marie Vigouroux: 01:18:05 because it makes me wonder, like, because, again, you talk Marie Vigouroux: 01:18:08 about Hannibal as being very charming, and like, he charmed Marie Vigouroux: 01:18:10 me with his competence. He charmed you know, Jack with like Marie Vigouroux: 01:18:14 his knowledge. But he has trouble charming Will, right? Marie Vigouroux: 01:18:17 And so it's this idea of like Will might be the person that he Marie Vigouroux: 01:18:21 can't fully control or manipulate, right? Jeremy Greer: 01:18:25 Exactly. Marie Vigouroux: 01:18:27 Oh, man.

Jeremy Greer: 01:18:27 Not saying a whole lot, because it's really Jeremy Greer: 01:18:29 difficult, Marie Vigouroux: 01:18:30 Oh no! But I know that at least I'm on the Marie Vigouroux: 01:18:34 right path. So that's good. That's good. Jeremy Greer: 01:18:36 He begins to have this conversation about how the Jeremy Greer: 01:18:39 fact them are very similar, and there's a level of sarcasm Jeremy Greer: 01:18:41 guarding through this where, because he says, Do you have any Jeremy Greer: 01:18:43 problems Will? And Jack says, No, it's like, of course, you're Jeremy Greer: 01:18:45 just like me. Neither one of us have any problems, which is like Jeremy Greer: 01:18:48 a really interesting line to ingratiate yourself with Jeremy Greer: 01:18:51 someone. Then he begins to talk about Jack, and says that Jack Jeremy Greer: 01:18:54 sees will is fine China and and Will says, What would you see me Jeremy Greer: 01:19:00 as and animal says, I see you as the Mongoose under the house, as Jeremy Greer: 01:19:06 the snake slither by. And I, I never really picked up on this Jeremy Greer: 01:19:11 line before, as other, just like kind of flowery dialog, but it Jeremy Greer: 01:19:14 really stuck out to me this time, and I did some research, Jeremy Greer: 01:19:16 and I can't talk about anything at all. I will say the the Jeremy Greer: 01:19:22 Mongoose is representative of stuff. The snakes are Jeremy Greer: 01:19:26 representative of stuff. The house that the Mongoose is under Jeremy Greer: 01:19:29 is representative of stuff. You can kind of make this very tight Jeremy Greer: 01:19:33 sentence a a metaphor, I guess, maybe for the entire series, and Jeremy Greer: 01:19:39 talking about it in detail the way that it deserves to be Jeremy Greer: 01:19:42 talked about. It's something I'm going to keep coming back to. I Jeremy Greer: 01:19:44 think as we get farther into the series, it will, like, spoil, Jeremy Greer: 01:19:48 like, twists that are happening. It's how good this line is. Jeremy Greer: 01:19:50 Like, it's so fucking good. I'm so like - Marie Vigouroux: 01:19:53 Oh no. Jeremy Greer: 01:19:54 Yeah, it's that good. Where I'm like, I mean, I Jeremy Greer: 01:19:56 literally can't talk about it. Marie Vigouroux: 01:19:59 Oh my god. Well, because that's the thing, Marie Vigouroux: 01:20:01 because at first, my first week, because you asked me about that, Marie Vigouroux: 01:20:03 you're like, What do you think about that line? Like, Well, I'm Marie Vigouroux: 01:20:06 not sure, because I didn't even know what a mongoose was like, Marie Vigouroux: 01:20:09 literally, until yesterday, when I looked it up and it's Marie Vigouroux: 01:20:12 something that, like, attacks snake. That's like, known for Marie Vigouroux: 01:20:15 attacking snake, particularly venomous snakes. And so I was Marie Vigouroux: 01:20:19 like, okay, but like, so is he talking? Is he

saying that like Marie Vigouroux: 01:20:23 he is the house and like he wants to use Will as a Marie Vigouroux: 01:20:26 protection against this, the snakes, or is he the snake? You Marie Vigouroux: 01:20:29 know that, like, is attacking the house, and so I'm like, I Marie Vigouroux: 01:20:32 don't know. I don't know what this means. Jeremy Greer: 01:20:34 I'm literally the zipped up mouth emoji right now. Jeremy Greer: 01:20:36 I'm just - Marie Vigouroux: 01:20:37 Of course, of course. I don't expect anything Marie Vigouroux: 01:20:39 else. I just wanted to say, like, what I thought. Jeremy Greer: 01:20:43 Your thoughts are great. They're wonderful. Marie Vigouroux: 01:20:45 Thank you so much. Jeremy Greer: 01:20:46 The last thing I would say about the Mongoose, Jeremy Greer: 01:20:48 and this is just kind of off topic completely. I've been Jeremy Greer: 01:20:51 married to my wife for 20 years now, and I still learn something Jeremy Greer: 01:20:54 new about her. Apparently, there's a cartoon called Ricky Jeremy Greer: 01:20:56 Tiki Tavi that is about an animated mongoose defending the Jeremy Greer: 01:21:00 home against two King Cobras. And it's narrated by Orson Marie Vigouroux: 01:21:05 What?! That's wild! Marie Vigouroux: 01:21:05 Welles. Jeremy Greer: 01:21:08 I looked up that - she was like, we know Ricky Jeremy Greer: 01:21:10 ticky Tavi, right? Like, because we were talking about mongoose Jeremy Greer: 01:21:12 or mongeese, I guess we're talking about mongooses. I don't Jeremy Greer: 01:21:15 we were talking about the line. And she's like, well, you know Jeremy Greer: 01:21:17 Ricky ticky Tavi. And I'm like, What did you just say? Marie Vigouroux: 01:21:21 What are those sounds that just came out of Marie Vigouroux: 01:21:23 your mouth? Jeremy Greer: 01:21:23 We looked at the trailer and like, it's, I guess Jeremy Greer: 01:21:26 it's from the 70s, maybe early 80s, and it looks wild, like it Jeremy Greer: 01:21:29 looks intense, especially for a young audience. Even I was like, Jeremy Greer: 01:21:31 this is kind of spooky with these King Cobras that want to Jeremy Greer: 01:21:33 kill everybody in this building anyway, we'll move on. They are Jeremy Greer: 01:21:37 headed to a construction site. Hannibal is very interested in, Jeremy Greer: 01:21:42 like, why they're coming here. And Jack explains, like, we Jeremy Greer: 01:21:45 found some metal shavings. He goes into a little bit more Jeremy Greer: 01:21:48 detail that we don't really care about. But like, they have, Jeremy Greer: 01:21:50 they've narrowed it down to specific sites that use this Jeremy Greer: 01:21:52 specific type of metal shavings that they can so it's not just Jeremy Greer: 01:21:56 like, 300 construction sites that they're seeing all over the Jeremy Greer: 01:21:58 state of Minnesota. Marie Vigouroux: 01:21:59 Yeah. It's like, hand wave, hand wave,

hand Marie Vigouroux: 01:22:01 wave. Like this is why we're going to this particular one. Marie Vigouroux: 01:22:03 Like this is not actually the story that we care about kind of Marie Vigouroux: 01:22:06 thing, right? Jeremy Greer: 01:22:06 Exactly. Marie Vigouroux: 01:22:08 Which I'm totally fine with. I don't need, Marie Vigouroux: 01:22:10 like, an actual procedural here. But one thing that I do find Marie Vigouroux: 01:22:13 really interesting is this line about how, you know, he wants a Marie Vigouroux: 01:22:15 peek behind the curtain, right? How Hannibal wants that, and I'm Marie Vigouroux: 01:22:18 like, so he's curious about, like, how the FBI conducts this Marie Vigouroux: 01:22:23 business when they're not kicking in doors kind of thing. Marie Vigouroux: 01:22:25 And so it's like, Oh, okay. So this is useful for him, too, to Marie Vigouroux: 01:22:28 like, learn more about, like, how not to get caught. Jeremy Greer: 01:22:31 Exactly, yes, exactly. They arrive at the Jeremy Greer: 01:22:34 construction office, they immediately begin to, like, go Jeremy Greer: 01:22:37 through the files. There's a little bit of a humor scene Jeremy Greer: 01:22:39 where the, I guess the receptionist, or the only woman Jeremy Greer: 01:22:43 that's in this construction trailer is on the phone with Jeremy Greer: 01:22:45 somebody, like they're going through all the files. Yes, they Jeremy Greer: 01:22:47 can do that. No, I can't tell them to stop. They're putting Jeremy Greer: 01:22:50 stuff in boxes like just kind of freaking out, because obviously Jeremy Greer: 01:22:53 the FBI is coming here, and then Will finds a file on Garrett Jeremy Greer: 01:22:57 Jacob Hobbs, and he begins to ask for more info. Does, does, Jeremy Greer: 01:23:00 you know? Does he have a daughter? Does he you know all Jeremy Greer: 01:23:04 this stuff? And Hannibal, you can tell, is, like, really Jeremy Greer: 01:23:07 curious. He begins to look over the show, over will shoulder. Jeremy Greer: 01:23:09 He's like, What? What called your attention? He's like, Well, Jeremy Greer: 01:23:11 he didn't leave a forwarding address. When he quit, everybody Jeremy Greer: 01:23:14 else left a forwarding address. And it's just a small detail Jeremy Greer: 01:23:18 that will picks up on. And Hannibal is like, again, like, Jeremy Greer: 01:23:21 that kind of conversation that you just mentioned, of like, Jeremy Greer: 01:23:22 he's learning how the FBI does his thing. Like he's like, oh, Marie Vigouroux: 01:23:25 Well, is it the FBI, or is it just Will Graham? Marie Vigouroux: 01:23:25 okay - Marie Vigouroux: 01:23:28 The peak behind the curtain about, oh, my God, oh, he's so Marie Vigouroux: 01:23:32 creepy. Jeremy Greer: 01:23:33 And this is why it's so I think important to Jeremy Greer: 01:23:35 talk about Quantico as a character, because Will's Jeremy Greer: 01:23:39 ability to see this is the reason they have him in a Jeremy Greer: 01:23:42 teaching role, to be able to try to train other FBI agents to Jeremy Greer: 01:23:45 catch stuff like this. That's something that comes naturally Jeremy Greer: 01:23:47 to him. Can that be reproduced with other agents? And can that Jeremy Greer: 01:23:50 help us catch more serial killers? Marie Vigouroux: 01:23:52 Yeah. Jeremy Greer: 01:23:53 And again, yeah. I'm also with you on ACAB, but Jeremy Greer: 01:23:55 like, there's an aspect of like FBI catching serial killers that Jeremy Greer: 01:23:58 I find fascinating, just in general. Marie Vigouroux: 01:24:00 I mean, listen, right? Like, I think that there Marie Vigouroux: 01:24:02 are certain roles for which, like, police is necessary, yes, Marie Vigouroux: 01:24:06 right? You know, stopping drunk drivers - Jeremy Greer: 01:24:09 Pulling over Justin Timberlake. Marie Vigouroux: 01:24:10 Yes, absolutely. I was gonna say Marie Vigouroux: 01:24:12 very, like, on trend kind of topic to talk about, like, Marie Vigouroux: 01:24:15 stopping serial killers. Like, I think we can all agree on that Marie Vigouroux: 01:24:18 my issue lies somewhere else. Jeremy Greer: 01:24:21 Of course, yeah, and we don't have to get into Jeremy Greer: 01:24:23 the politics of that if you want us to, then just follow us on Jeremy Greer: 01:24:25 Twitter. Marie Vigouroux: 01:24:29 I mean, I know I talk a lot about that on Jeremy Greer: 01:24:32 They begin to take boxes of files to Will's car and Jeremy Greer: 01:24:32 there. Jeremy Greer: 01:24:38 Hannibal, very much on purpose, spills some causing Will and the Jeremy Greer: 01:24:43 lady that's helping them to, kind of like, scramble around Jeremy Greer: 01:24:45 and pick some stuff up. And then Hannibal goes inside and calls Jeremy Greer: 01:24:50 Garrett Jacob Hobbs. And we see Garrett Jacob Hobbs. We didn't Jeremy Greer: 01:24:53 actually mention this, as it happened while they were looking Jeremy Greer: 01:24:56 at the body in the woods from the copycat, we saw flashes of Jeremy Greer: 01:25:00 you know a character that we're going to come to know as Jeremy Greer: 01:25:03 Abigail, getting out of their car and like, waving to her Jeremy Greer: 01:25:06 father, who was Garrett Jacob Hobbs. And now we're seeing Jeremy Greer: 01:25:09 those two characters in, like, a very suburban setting. They're Jeremy Greer: 01:25:12 in a kitchen preparing dinner, or, guess not, dinner, lunch or Jeremy Greer: 01:25:16 something. They're all they're all hanging out in the kitchen. Jeremy Greer: 01:25:17 I don't know what they're doing. Marie Vigouroux: 01:25:18 Breakfast, II think? I saw some pancakes. Jeremy Greer: 01:25:20 Sure. Yeah. Marie Vigouroux: 01:25:21 I was very excited about that. I was hungry Marie Vigouroux: 01:25:25 when I watched this. Jeremy Greer: 01:25:26 I'm gonna warn you, you

probably need a snack Jeremy Greer: 01:25:28 before watching Hannibal, because it's gonna make you it's Jeremy Greer: 01:25:30 gonna make you crave stuff that you don't necessarily want to Jeremy Greer: 01:25:32 crave, and you're gonna have to sit with that. Marie Vigouroux: 01:25:35 I was really worried about, like, the the Marie Vigouroux: 01:25:37 warnings that that I had received about it being gory, Marie Vigouroux: 01:25:40 and I was like, Maybe I shouldn't, like, watch this with Marie Vigouroux: 01:25:42 a full stomach, but no, I think next time I'll have a snack Marie Vigouroux: 01:25:45 before. Jeremy Greer: 01:25:48 So Hannibal calls. Abigail answers, passes the Jeremy Greer: 01:25:50 phone to dad, Garrett, and Hannibal simply says, this is a Jeremy Greer: 01:25:54 courtesy call. Listen very carefully. We don't know each Jeremy Greer: 01:25:57 other. We may never meet. They know. And this is, this is Jeremy Greer: 01:26:02 Hannibal showing us the agent of chaos that he is. And one of the Jeremy Greer: 01:26:08 things that makes Hannibal a great character is that he not Jeremy Greer: 01:26:12 only can get people onto his side, but as you mentioned Jeremy Greer: 01:26:14 earlier, using his like psychiatric mind to control and Jeremy Greer: 01:26:17 manipulate Will. That's what he does to everybody. It's not just Jeremy Greer: 01:26:21 Will, like he now he is setting this in motion just to see what Jeremy Greer: 01:26:25 happens. He doesn't know that Garrett is the killer, right? Jeremy Greer: 01:26:27 Like, they don't know that for certain, but on the off chance Jeremy Greer: 01:26:30 that it is, of course, it happens, he's gonna set this, Jeremy Greer: 01:26:32 like bomb off in this dude's brain, just to see what happens. Jeremy Greer: 01:26:36 Who cares about the consequences? And it's so good. Jeremy Greer: 01:26:39 I love this so much. Marie Vigouroux: 01:26:41 Oh, my God. Because see, when I watched it, Marie Vigouroux: 01:26:43 I had no real idea of what the motivation was behind it, right? Marie Vigouroux: 01:26:47 Like, this was a complete mystery to me. I was like, Why Marie Vigouroux: 01:26:50 does does he? Does he care? And if so, why? And I sort of Marie Vigouroux: 01:26:57 assumed that, like, okay, so they have to get like, like, on Marie Vigouroux: 01:27:00 a more critical side, like, they have to get Hobbs to attack his Marie Vigouroux: 01:27:02 family. But I just again, I think, like, this says something Marie Vigouroux: 01:27:05 about Hannibal that I, I, I wasn't expecting, because I saw Marie Vigouroux: 01:27:09 it more as, like, is it projection? Is it empathy? Is it Marie Vigouroux: 01:27:12 professional courtesy? But you're telling me it's just, Marie Vigouroux: 01:27:14 like, his chaos Gremlin? Jeremy Greer: 01:27:17 Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And there may be, Jeremy Greer: 01:27:20 there may be a little

bit of, like, professional courtesy Jeremy Greer: 01:27:23 involved, right? Because I feel like Hannibal is a character Jeremy Greer: 01:27:26 that wants more serial killers in the world. Marie Vigouroux: 01:27:29 Right. So, like, from one serial killer to Marie Vigouroux: 01:27:32 another, like they know kind of thing. Jeremy Greer: 01:27:34 But I think at its core, I think if they put him Jeremy Greer: 01:27:37 side by side, I would believe that he just wants to see what Jeremy Greer: 01:27:39 happens in some cases, like, he just likes to light the fuse and Jeremy Greer: 01:27:43 watch the toys explode, right? And we'll see more of this Marie Vigouroux: 01:27:47 Which is interesting for somebody who, Marie Vigouroux: 01:27:48 like, craves control for so many things, right? Jeremy Greer: 01:27:52 Exactly. Marie Vigouroux: 01:27:52 Such a contradiction. Jeremy Greer: 01:27:54 Like, imagine very carefully, like, imagine a child Jeremy Greer: 01:27:57 very carefully organizing its toys in a battle scene and then Jeremy Greer: 01:27:59 literally exploding it with firecrackers. And that's, that's Jeremy Greer: 01:28:02 a good analogy of what like, how Hannibal sees people, I think, Jeremy Greer: 01:28:05 are just these like pieces and toys that he can, he can align Jeremy Greer: 01:28:08 and then set off to create these explosions. And it's gonna be Jeremy Greer: 01:28:11 fascinating. Marie Vigouroux: 01:28:12 Interesting that you're using, like a kids Marie Vigouroux: 01:28:14 metaphor also to talk about this, when we just had a kids Marie Vigouroux: 01:28:17 metaphor about the Willy Wonka golden ticket? Wow. Jeremy Greer: 01:28:21 It's because I'm a serial killer. Marie Vigouroux: 01:28:25 Yes, there you go. We should have known. We Marie Vigouroux: 01:28:26 should have known. So Jeremy Greer: 01:28:29 this, he says they know, and we cut to black. It's Jeremy Greer: 01:28:33 wild. Imagine seeing like a commercial for detergent after Jeremy Greer: 01:28:35 this. Watching stuff with commercials is fascinating to me Jeremy Greer: 01:28:39 nowadays, because it never happens, and I'm just like, what Jeremy Greer: 01:28:42 were they playing? Was Office Depot advertising like a new Jeremy Greer: 01:28:44 printer, like what was going on? Marie Vigouroux: 01:28:45 Imagine! Jeremy Greer: 01:28:48 But we cut to will who was covered in blood, and Jeremy Greer: 01:28:53 right away we hear this electronic thumbing, and his Jeremy Greer: 01:28:56 sweep hand is working, and it backs him all the way into his Jeremy Greer: 01:28:59 car, where he's sitting in the car with Hannibal as they pull Jeremy Greer: 01:29:04 up to Garrett Jacobs hots house, and now he's fully clean. He's Jeremy Greer: 01:29:07 not covered in blood. So we, I think this is a really good way Jeremy Greer: 01:29:11 just to, like to put so much tension in a situation where we Jeremy Greer: 01:29:14 just don't know what's about to happen, but we know it is super, Jeremy Greer: 01:29:17 super bad. Marie Vigouroux: 01:29:18 Oh yeah. I mean, when I watched this, I was Marie Vigouroux: 01:29:20 like, Oh no, because I kind of love this idea of, like, you Marie Vigouroux: 01:29:25 know how it's going to end, but you have no idea how they're Marie Vigouroux: 01:29:28 gonna get there. Like, I find that just as interesting as, Marie Vigouroux: 01:29:31 like, not knowing how it's going to end, if not more, actually. Jeremy Greer: 01:29:34 Absolutely, yeah, it's a - Marie Vigouroux: 01:29:35 I love that. Jeremy Greer: 01:29:36 Very, very, very interesting narrative device to Jeremy Greer: 01:29:39 So as they get out of the car, Garrett's wife, who I don't Jeremy Greer: 01:29:39 use. Jeremy Greer: 01:29:46 think is actually named anywhere, anywhere like, runs Jeremy Greer: 01:29:49 out of the door, she is - her neck is bleeding. Her neck is Jeremy Greer: 01:29:53 wide open. Will rushes over, and he's trying to, like, put up his Jeremy Greer: 01:29:57 hands over her neck to prevent the bleeding. And she's just - Jeremy Greer: 01:30:00 blood is pouring out of her, and she dies, literally, in Will's Jeremy Greer: 01:30:02 arms Marie Vigouroux: 01:30:03 She is like, so white, she has no more blood, Marie Vigouroux: 01:30:06 like in her head, like there's, there's nothing he can do to Marie Vigouroux: 01:30:09 save her. Jeremy Greer: 01:30:10 Will draws his gun. Will, why do you have a Jeremy Greer: 01:30:12 gun? You're the last person in the world who should ahve a gun. Marie Vigouroux: 01:30:16 Well, right?? Jeremy Greer: 01:30:16 This is, this is one of those TV show things. I Jeremy Greer: 01:30:18 think we're just like, they have a gun. It's really wild - Marie Vigouroux: 01:30:22 And he kicks down the door, which I found was Marie Vigouroux: 01:30:24 an interesting call back to, like, you know the when they're Marie Vigouroux: 01:30:28 not kicking down doors earlier. Jeremy Greer: 01:30:29 Absolutely, it's also like him kicking down the Jeremy Greer: 01:30:31 door of the house and the cold open as the serial killer, Jeremy Greer: 01:30:35 right? Marie Vigouroux: 01:30:36 Yeah. Jeremy Greer: 01:30:36 I was actually, it's interesting that you bring Jeremy Greer: 01:30:38 that up, because I was, I thought in my brain when he Jeremy Greer: 01:30:40 thought in my brain, I need to, I need to distinguish - Marie Vigouroux: 01:30:42 Where else do you think Jeremy? Jeremy Greer: 01:30:44 Jesus Christ. I was thinking when I saw this, Jeremy Greer: 01:30:48 like, how very TV tropy it was, where you because he's because Jeremy Greer: 01:30:52 he's not, like a buff dude, like they're not presenting him, is Jeremy Greer: 01:30:55 that and so him, for him to, like, break a door down. I Jeremy Greer: 01:30:57 thought was,

but it's interesting that you compared it Jeremy Greer: 01:30:59 to the when they're not breaking the doors down. And also, the Jeremy Greer: 01:31:02 thing that's interesting, good stuff. As he arrives in the Jeremy Greer: 01:31:06 kitchen, Garrett is holding a knife to Abigail's throat, and Jeremy Greer: 01:31:11 he doesn't hesitate for very long. He just slits her throat, Jeremy Greer: 01:31:14 and then Will just opens fire, literally emptying his entire Jeremy Greer: 01:31:17 clip into Garrett Jacob Hobbs. Will rushes over to save Jeremy Greer: 01:31:21 Abigail, and he looks over and he locks eyes with Garrett, and Jeremy Greer: 01:31:24 Garrett says, I see you, which is terrifying. And honestly, Jeremy Greer: 01:31:31 don't really know what it means, don't I don't have, I don't have Jeremy Greer: 01:31:34 a good analysis for this whatsoever. I was very curious Jeremy Greer: 01:31:36 how you took this. Marie Vigouroux: 01:31:38 Well, so I was wondering, because again, like, Marie Vigouroux: 01:31:40 I'm not entirely sure about how Will understands his, quote, Marie Vigouroux: 01:31:45 unquote, like power of imagination, right? And so it Marie Vigouroux: 01:31:49 again, with this idea of, like, fear being his main motivator. Marie Vigouroux: 01:31:52 Is he now afraid that, like, he's able to imagine how killers Marie Vigouroux: 01:31:55 operate, because deep down, he is also a killer, or he has the Marie Vigouroux: 01:31:59 potential to become a killer himself. And so, like that idea, Marie Vigouroux: 01:32:02 because we saw that, quote, unquote, like, professional Marie Vigouroux: 01:32:05 courtesy between Hannibal and Hobbs. Like, is this what's Marie Vigouroux: 01:32:08 happening here, that, like, Hobbs is seeing him, and it's Marie Vigouroux: 01:32:10 like, I see you. I know who you are. I know what you are. You Marie Vigouroux: 01:32:13 know. Jeremy Greer: 01:32:15 It's, I mean, just, and it's, it shakes will Jeremy Greer: 01:32:18 to his core, like he's, he's already shaking, and you could Jeremy Greer: 01:32:23 tell like he's probably going into shock, like he is, he is, Jeremy Greer: 01:32:26 he is not. This is not his normal thing. And when he hears Jeremy Greer: 01:32:29 this like he's even like, he almost stops helping Abigail Jeremy Greer: 01:32:32 right, like he becomes so overwhelmed with it. And this is Jeremy Greer: 01:32:35 when Hannibal takes over, and just like wraps his his enormous Jeremy Greer: 01:32:39 hand around Abigail's throat, and just like, calmly looks at Jeremy Greer: 01:32:42 will, like, this is everyday material for him. And it's just, Jeremy Greer: 01:32:45 I get talking about competency and confidence. Like, wow, man. Marie Vigouroux: 01:32:49 This should not be hot again. I should not be Marie Vigouroux: 01:32:53 like, Ooh, that was nice. Jeremy Greer: 01:32:55 Yet another, yet another question on the

FBI Jeremy Greer: 01:32:57 agent exam, that we're both failing. Marie Vigouroux: 01:32:59 Oh, absolutely. And like, that's the thing too. Marie Vigouroux: 01:33:01 Like he he's literally, like, pushing Will's hands away, like Marie Vigouroux: 01:33:05 he takes over from Will. And, like you said, Will is going Marie Vigouroux: 01:33:07 into shock, like 100% like, the shock is setting in from having Marie Vigouroux: 01:33:11 one killed somebody, and also, like, having been told that, Marie Vigouroux: 01:33:14 like, I see you, but did that really happen? Or is he Marie Vigouroux: 01:33:17 imagining it? Jeremy Greer: 01:33:18 That's one of my favorite things about the show, Jeremy Greer: 01:33:19 is that there's gonna be times where you just don't quite know Jeremy Greer: 01:33:23 what is real and what is not, because Will can be such an Jeremy Greer: 01:33:26 unreliable narrator as - because he has such a intense Jeremy Greer: 01:33:30 imagination and such intense empathy. And the show has shown Jeremy Greer: 01:33:32 us like him, using that specifically that opening scene Jeremy Greer: 01:33:36 where he bounces from the imagination to real life as he Jeremy Greer: 01:33:39 asks the transcript for the alarm panel, like, he can easily Jeremy Greer: 01:33:42 move between those two when he wants to. And like, I feel like Jeremy Greer: 01:33:45 this is one of those moments of, like, is he moving between those Jeremy Greer: 01:33:48 two when he doesn't want to as well. Marie Vigouroux: 01:33:50 When he's not aware? And honestly, like, I Marie Vigouroux: 01:33:52 find that and so especially in this moment where he's so Marie Vigouroux: 01:33:55 vulnerable, right? Like, because it seems like he's getting those Marie Vigouroux: 01:33:58 unwanted I mean, I mean, I don't want to say visions, but almost Marie Vigouroux: 01:34:01 like when he's very vulnerable, like when he's sleeping, when Marie Vigouroux: 01:34:04 he's in the shower, when he's in the bathroom, and here, like he Marie Vigouroux: 01:34:06 just killed someone, which I would assume would make you feel Marie Vigouroux: 01:34:09 pretty emotionally vulnerable if you're not used to doing this Marie Vigouroux: 01:34:12 every day. Jeremy Greer: 01:34:13 Never bothers me. Marie Vigouroux: 01:34:14 I mean, like, I don't actually quite know, but Marie Vigouroux: 01:34:18 having, having, you know, having been in a, well, yes, in a very Marie Vigouroux: 01:34:24 like, emotionally charged situation of violence, violence Marie Vigouroux: 01:34:27 before, like, your memories and like what you're seeing aren't Marie Vigouroux: 01:34:32 always like, I know that I could not quite trust - and that's not Marie Vigouroux: 01:34:38 to say that like, you shouldn't trust victims like, that's not Marie Vigouroux: 01:34:40 at all what I'm saying. But I know that for me, my brain Marie Vigouroux: 01:34:43 covered

up a lot of stuff that, like, I - that it knew that I Marie Vigouroux: 01:34:48 couldn't, I shouldn't be remembering. And so I'm kind of Marie Vigouroux: 01:34:50 wondering, like, like, like you mentioned about the unreliable Marie Vigouroux: 01:34:53 narrator, like, Is this what's happening to Will? Like, under Marie Vigouroux: 01:34:57 this intense moment of trauma? Like, is he just unable to Marie Vigouroux: 01:35:00 control the difference between reality and imagination. Jeremy Greer: 01:35:04 Absolutely. Yeah, and we're gonna, hey, we're Jeremy Greer: 01:35:07 gonna be talking about that a lot. Mary, we're gonna be, we're Jeremy Greer: 01:35:10 gonna be having this conversation quite a bit. Marie Vigouroux: 01:35:14 Great. Jeremy Greer: 01:35:15 Will watches almost like non blinking as they Jeremy Greer: 01:35:19 load. Abigail, who's presumably alive at this point, into the Jeremy Greer: 01:35:23 ambulance, and she's taken away. We cut to Jack, who is stalking Jeremy Greer: 01:35:28 into Will's classroom to look for will, and finds Alana Bloom Jeremy Greer: 01:35:31 there, who has taken over, and she is extremely mad, because Jeremy Greer: 01:35:35 she realizes however they have communicated this, and it Jeremy Greer: 01:35:37 doesn't matter, because TV, she understands what's happened to Jeremy Greer: 01:35:41 Will, and she blames him, like you told you, said he wouldn't Jeremy Greer: 01:35:44 get too close. And like, this is the opposite of that, like, what Jeremy Greer: 01:35:46 do you and lays into him a little bit, which is awesome of Jeremy Greer: 01:35:50 her. I love that she's able to, like, challenge Jack, even Jeremy Greer: 01:35:54 though he's a figure of authority. Marie Vigouroux: 01:35:56 As she should really because, I mean, when you Marie Vigouroux: 01:35:59 think about it, like, who was the agent on like, I'm like, who Marie Vigouroux: 01:36:04 was actually, like, the agent in charge in that moment, right? Marie Vigouroux: 01:36:07 Like, it should have been, like, he should have said, if I can't Marie Vigouroux: 01:36:10 make it today, you guys don't go out. We go tomorrow, right? Marie Vigouroux: 01:36:13 Like, this is, to me, like, a complete lack of of judgment on Marie Vigouroux: 01:36:18 the part of Jack. Jeremy Greer: 01:36:19 And it's, it's, it's something that got brought Jeremy Greer: 01:36:21 up earlier too, in the car when Hannibal is asking Jack, like, Jeremy Greer: 01:36:26 Excuse me, Hannibal is asking Will why they're at the Jeremy Greer: 01:36:28 construction site, and he mentions, like, oh, it's Jeremy Greer: 01:36:30 fascinating to learn more about the FBI. And he's like, Yeah, Jeremy Greer: 01:36:32 you, you should, you should just come with us to knock on doors Jeremy Greer: 01:36:34 sometimes, like, this was supposed to be just like a knock Jeremy Greer: 01:36:37 on door situation. There was no idea that they were going to Jeremy Greer: 01:36:39 fall into a serial killer, right? They were just gonna go Jeremy Greer: 01:36:42 talk to somebody. And so, like, I feel like that's the excuse, Jeremy Greer: 01:36:46 but you're absolutely right. Like, they this, this, this was Jeremy Greer: 01:36:48 a terribly handled especially when you have basically two Jeremy Greer: 01:36:51 civilians just doing FBI is work for them. Like, that's insane. Marie Vigouroux: 01:36:55 Right? Yeah. Oh my god! Jeremy Greer: 01:36:57 Skinner would never allow this to happen. Marie Vigouroux: 01:37:00 Skinner, the Hunk would absolutely not be Marie Vigouroux: 01:37:03 happy about this, and with reason. Jeremy Greer: 01:37:07 We go from here into we watch Will, in slow mo, Jeremy Greer: 01:37:11 walk through a hospital corridor and into Abigail's room, where Jeremy Greer: 01:37:14 she's sleeping, obviously stabilized. And as he enters the Jeremy Greer: 01:37:18 room, we realize that Hannibal is there holding her hand beside Jeremy Greer: 01:37:22 the bed, and will just kind of takes this in, takes a moment, Jeremy Greer: 01:37:27 and he goes to the other side of the bed and sits down, and as Jeremy Greer: 01:37:31 they're both waiting for Abigail to wake up. This, you mentioned Jeremy Greer: 01:37:35 this in your notes. This scene is, I think, filmed in such a Jeremy Greer: 01:37:39 way, and is soundtrack in such a way to make you feel very scared Jeremy Greer: 01:37:42 of this. And you don't like you really don't understand Jeremy Greer: 01:37:46 Hannibal's motivations. And again, the only thing we know Jeremy Greer: 01:37:48 about Hannibal from, like, a pop culture perspective, right? It's Jeremy Greer: 01:37:51 just like he's a cannibal. We know that like that they're not, Jeremy Greer: 01:37:53 they're not going to not do that in this show. So we know that he Jeremy Greer: 01:37:56 is a threat. We don't know how much of a threat, and we don't Jeremy Greer: 01:37:59 know, like, what his relationship with Abigail is, or Jeremy Greer: 01:38:02 what his intentions are, and we see what his relationship is Jeremy Greer: 01:38:05 with Will, and it's really difficult to get a handle on, Jeremy Greer: 01:38:07 like, why he's here, why he would care. This is something Jeremy Greer: 01:38:11 that is going to be explored and talked about, and we're gonna, Jeremy Greer: 01:38:14 we're going to get into the details of this, but right now, Jeremy Greer: 01:38:17 it's such a shock seeing him here, and you feel threatened, Jeremy Greer: 01:38:20 just like he field threatened when he like, offers, Will the Jeremy Greer: 01:38:23 protein scramble or whatever the sausage, there's just an Jeremy Greer: 01:38:27 undercutting. There's an undercurrent of terror and like, Jeremy Greer: 01:38:30 fraughtness here. Marie Vigouroux: 01:38:32 It's just so alarming. Like, everything

about Marie Vigouroux: 01:38:35 this is alarming because, like, why does this man care about Marie Vigouroux: 01:38:39 this girl? Right? Like, he didn't, clearly, didn't really Marie Vigouroux: 01:38:42 care all that much about her father. And yet, he went into Marie Vigouroux: 01:38:47 the ambulance with her leaving Will, who was clearly in shock, Marie Vigouroux: 01:38:53 and and now he's like, holding her hand in a hospital room. Marie Vigouroux: 01:38:56 Like, what is happening, you know? And I'm kind of again, Marie Vigouroux: 01:39:00 like, I'm like, is this showing us one thing, like showing us a Marie Vigouroux: 01:39:04 negative so that we can't see the positive, so that, like, are Marie Vigouroux: 01:39:07 they doing to us what Hannibal did to will with, like, the fake Marie Vigouroux: 01:39:12 out in the middle of the episode? Like, is this what's Marie Vigouroux: 01:39:15 happening? Or does he actually care? Like, I don't know. I Marie Vigouroux: 01:39:18 thought that this scene was the single most disturbing one in Marie Vigouroux: 01:39:23 the whole episode. Jeremy Greer: 01:39:25 It's - so a hospital scene is disturbing, Jeremy Greer: 01:39:27 and Hannibal preparing human lungs for consumption is hot. Marie Vigouroux: 01:39:32 It was hot. Jeremy Greer: 01:39:32 I want to make sure I get the rating system for Jeremy Greer: 01:39:34 Mary right on track right out the gate. So we gotta - is it Jeremy Greer: 01:39:38 hot or not? Is a totally different thing in this Jeremy Greer: 01:39:42 situation. Marie Vigouroux: 01:39:44 Oh, my God. Jeremy Greer: 01:39:44 I think you're right. You're right to be Jeremy Greer: 01:39:46 disturbed by it. So, like, it's especially just what, what we Jeremy Greer: 01:39:50 know about Hannibal, and even at this point, what we don't know Jeremy Greer: 01:39:52 about Hannibal is scary. So just having him here is spooky. And Jeremy Greer: 01:39:58 another thing that's kind of, trepidatious for me is Will's Jeremy Greer: 01:40:01 acceptance, where he just walks in and he's like, he doesn't, he Jeremy Greer: 01:40:04 doesn't cry an alarm, like he doesn't say, This man doesn't Jeremy Greer: 01:40:07 belong here, because, in a way, like he doesn't belong here, Jeremy Greer: 01:40:10 either he's not this child's guardian or parent, like both of Jeremy Greer: 01:40:12 her parents are dead, and so he just sees it as, like, all Jeremy Greer: 01:40:15 right, like we're both, we're both going to be here for this Jeremy Greer: 01:40:17 child. And then the series turns into my two dads. So I hope Jeremy Greer: 01:40:20 you're, hope you're ready for - Marie Vigouroux: 01:40:23 Well, so Okay, so now I'm like, so I never Marie Vigouroux: 01:40:25 really thought of Abigail staying on the show. I thought Marie Vigouroux: 01:40:28 that they were like, maybe gonna hand wave her, like, but, but Marie Vigouroux: 01:40:32 now, like, there's a couple of things that you've said, and I'm Marie Vigouroux: 01:40:34 like, do we see more of Abigail on this show? Like, is this Marie Vigouroux: 01:40:37 gonna become a thing? Jeremy Greer: 01:40:39 I guess the fact that I just named her probably Jeremy Greer: 01:40:41 tells you that she's gonna show up at least one more time. Marie Vigouroux: 01:40:44 The fact that you know her name and remember Marie Vigouroux: 01:40:46 her name, I guess. Jeremy Greer: 01:40:47 That's a spoiler by itself. Oh, Jeremy, thinks Jeremy Greer: 01:40:51 that this is important enough to remember. I'm probably she's Jeremy Greer: 01:40:53 probably gonna come up again. Marie Vigouroux: 01:40:55 Cannot remember Will or Jack's name, but Marie Vigouroux: 01:40:57 Abigail, yes, going to assume that this is a bit more Marie Vigouroux: 01:41:00 important than I originally thought, but that is so alarming Marie Vigouroux: 01:41:03 to me. What are they gonna do to this child? Jeremy Greer: 01:41:05 What is what is going to happen next? Is the Jeremy Greer: 01:41:08 question. So, yeah, that's our, that's our coverage of the Jeremy Greer: 01:41:12 episode. Do you have any final thoughts before we get into the Jeremy Greer: 01:41:15 reviews, the ratings? Unknown: 01:41:18 No, I mean this, this final thought is genuinely that, Unknown: 01:41:21 like, I loved every second of watching this. Jeremy Greer: 01:41:25 I think it's as part of our - we mentioned that Jeremy Greer: 01:41:27 this entire podcast, the idea for it and the execution came Jeremy Greer: 01:41:31 within 48 hours. So and I just want to mention how funny it is Jeremy Greer: 01:41:35 that, like, we suggested this, and there was at no point where Jeremy Greer: 01:41:38 I was like, well, we should only do this if you like the show. Jeremy Greer: 01:41:40 Like I never said that, because I just knew that Mary would love Jeremy Greer: 01:41:43 it so much. There was no question of it. Marie Vigouroux: 01:41:45 It feels like you're only the only thing you Marie Vigouroux: 01:41:48 were worried about is that I was gonna binge it. Jeremy Greer: 01:41:51 I was a little worried, yeah, no, you can't do Jeremy Greer: 01:41:53 this. We release this every two weeks. This is gonna be a Jeremy Greer: 01:41:56 project. Marie Vigouroux: 01:41:57 Yeah. You were like, well, you know, it's gonna Marie Vigouroux: 01:41:59 be hard because, like, there's some pretty big cliffhangers. Marie Vigouroux: 01:42:01 And I was like, I can control myself. Like, I'll be fine. That Marie Vigouroux: 01:42:07 was the discussion, not whether or not I was gonna like the Marie Vigouroux: 01:42:09 show. Jeremy Greer: 01:42:09 I think returning to this just a reminder of how Jeremy Greer: 01:42:13 well executed the show is on all levels. There's, there's hardly Jeremy Greer: 01:42:16 any, any fat to trim on this. On

this episode, everything is Jeremy Greer: 01:42:19 very, very intentional and to the point and has us learned Jeremy Greer: 01:42:24 something to the point where, like introducing characters, Jeremy Greer: 01:42:26 like they don't even name some of these characters that we're Jeremy Greer: 01:42:28 going to we're going to learn are reoccurring characters Jeremy Greer: 01:42:30 throughout the show, like they do a really, really good job of Jeremy Greer: 01:42:33 just laser sighting us into the stuff that's important, which is Jeremy Greer: 01:42:37 mostly Hannibal and Will. And with that, we're going to jump Jeremy Greer: 01:42:41 into our ratings. Marie Vigouroux: 01:43:15 All right, so I would like to rate this episode, Marie Vigouroux: 01:43:19 season one, episode, one aperitif with four stars, Marie Vigouroux: 01:43:24 because with its mysterious, dark and bitter tones, its Marie Vigouroux: 01:43:28 splash of bubbles and its unexpected hint of sweetness, Marie Vigouroux: 01:43:31 this aperitif leaves me wanting more and is sure to set the tone Marie Vigouroux: 01:43:35 for an unforgettable meal. Jeremy Greer: 01:43:37 And I'm going to agree with you. I'm going to Jeremy Greer: 01:43:38 give it four stars. I think it's a bold and surprisingly fruity Jeremy Greer: 01:43:42 apparatus that is as craveable as it is delicious. Marie Vigouroux: 01:43:46 It was, I mean, yes, it was definitely Marie Vigouroux: 01:43:48 surprisingly fruity. I didn't expect that to come up so Marie Vigouroux: 01:43:51 quickly, to be honest. Jeremy Greer: 01:43:53 Who needs slow burn? You know what I'm saying? Marie Vigouroux: 01:43:57 You covered a slow burn for like years, and Marie Vigouroux: 01:44:00 I'm doing that right now, with Supernatural. Jeremy Greer: 01:44:04 Finally. Finally, we don't have to wait 15 Jeremy Greer: 01:44:06 seasons. So thank you everybody for listening. We're obviously Jeremy Greer: 01:44:12 recording this this very early, so we don't have all of our Jeremy Greer: 01:44:14 social links and things. So I'll just point you to the Episode Jeremy Greer: 01:44:17 notes for the show for links to all of our social medias. If you Jeremy Greer: 01:44:22 want to support us, please consider leaving ratings and Jeremy Greer: 01:44:25 reviews on Spotify and Apple podcast. But most importantly, Jeremy Greer: 01:44:28 if you know anybody in the Hannibal fandom, or just Jeremy Greer: 01:44:30 somebody who likes Hannibal, please, please just let them Jeremy Greer: 01:44:33 know that the podcast exists. Organic growth is the only way Jeremy Greer: 01:44:36 that podcasts really gain any kind of numbers or traction. So Jeremy Greer: 01:44:38 we're relying on you, the listeners, to enjoy this enough Jeremy Greer: 01:44:41 to tell your friends about it, tell your mom. Your mom probably Jeremy Greer: 01:44:44 read these books teenagers. They were really big

in the 80s, so Jeremy Greer: 01:44:48 your parents probably knew all about this. We love moms on this Jeremy Greer: 01:44:50 podcast, right? I'm assuming, Mary, that you love moms? Marie Vigouroux: 01:44:53 Yes, of course. Jeremy Greer: 01:44:54 So please, please consider doing that, Marie Vigouroux: 01:44:58 We want all the moms to listen to this. Jeremy Greer: 01:45:00 Want every single mother. Marie Vigouroux: 01:45:02 Every single mom. Jeremy Greer: 01:45:02 Yeah, I'm gonna start advertising this on Jeremy Greer: 01:45:04 Mothers Against Drunk Driving websites. That's gonna be the Jeremy Greer: 01:45:06 that's our market. It's just moms. Marie Vigouroux: 01:45:10 It is your mom's podcast, actually. Jeremy Greer: 01:45:11 It is your mom's podcast. Tell everybody where Jeremy Greer: 01:45:14 they can find you on the internet, Mary. Marie Vigouroux: 01:45:16 So I can be found on Twitter as Marie Vigouroux: 01:45:21 @maryturner_, I'm pretty sure you can also find my other Marie Vigouroux: 01:45:24 podcast @carryingwayward and Jeremy, why don't you tell us Marie Vigouroux: 01:45:27 where we can find you on the internet. Jeremy Greer: 01:45:29 I'm on Twitter, that very active on Twitter, but Jeremy Greer: 01:45:31 you can find me at JG Greer, and you can find all of my other Jeremy Greer: 01:45:34 cast at creepybutnecessary.coolbutnecessary.cool, Jeremy Greer: 01:45:37 including podcast about Merlin, Supernatural, X Files and a Jeremy Greer: 01:45:40 whole other bunch of stuff in between. Marie Vigouroux: 01:45:42 Thank you everybody for listening, and we Marie Vigouroux: 01:45:44 wish you bon appetit. Marie Vigouroux: 01:46:01 Cool, cool, cool. Oh, this is so cool. Jeremy Greer: 01:46:03 This is fun. I love new stuff, yes. Marie Vigouroux: 01:46:07 Oh, this was a lot of fun. Now I want to watch Marie Vigouroux: 01:46:10 the second one. Jeremy Greer: 01:46:11 Get after it. Do you usually, I know you watch Jeremy Greer: 01:46:14 this twice? Do you usually watch like stuff twice? When you Jeremy Greer: 01:46:16 record about it? Marie Vigouroux: 01:46:18 It depends. So Supernatural, not really just Marie Vigouroux: 01:46:21 because I know the episodes already, but with our flag means Marie Vigouroux: 01:46:24 death, I was watching twice because they were all new Marie Vigouroux: 01:46:27 episodes to me. So I think this one I'm gonna have to watch Marie Vigouroux: 01:46:31 twice also because, like, if I look back at my original notes, Marie Vigouroux: 01:46:34 like, I have no notes about, like, the killing scene at the Marie Vigouroux: 01:46:37 end, except like, oh my god, that scene H's support the way Marie Vigouroux: 01:46:40 he grabbed that girl's neck, plus W's shock. That's it. Marie Vigouroux: 01:46:43 That's all I have. Jeremy Greer: 01:46:46 That's so funny to me. Marie Vigouroux: 01:46:47 Oh yeah, there you go. So I think it's gonna be Marie Vigouroux: 01:46:51 important for me to watch stuff TWICE, Like, once, just to, Marie Vigouroux: 01:46:54 like, get to know the material, and then a second time, like, to Marie Vigouroux: 01:46:56 actually take notes. And for, for next time I think what I'll Marie Vigouroux: 01:47:00 do is that I'll also start, like, taking some or I can also, Marie Vigouroux: 01:47:04 like, help you with the beat by beat. Because now that I see a Marie Vigouroux: 01:47:06 little bit like, how you're doing it, I'm like, okay, all Marie Vigouroux: 01:47:08 right, so I can take over some of that from you, so that it's a Marie Vigouroux: 01:47:11 bit more even. Because I was like, oh my god, I'm making him Marie Vigouroux: 01:47:13 do literally all of the talking. Jeremy Greer: 01:47:15 I thought it was, I thought we, I thought we Jeremy Greer: 01:47:17 breezed back and forth really easily. I thought that was Jeremy Greer: 01:47:18 really smooth. There's only a couple of times where, like, one Jeremy Greer: 01:47:21 of us didn't have a quite a thought prepared, and that's Jeremy Greer: 01:47:23 easily taken care of and editing. So I'm not, I'm not Jeremy Greer: 01:47:25 concerned about that at all. Marie Vigouroux: 01:47:26 Okay. Jeremy Greer: 01:47:27 So, but I thought we did great, especially for, Jeremy Greer: 01:47:29 like, again, having podcasted before, but never, like, about Jeremy Greer: 01:47:32 something structural. So like this, I think we did really, Jeremy Greer: 01:47:34 really good. So pat on the back, high five. Marie Vigouroux: 01:47:37 I think we did really well. Yes, high five. Jeremy Greer: 01:47:39 High five. Marie Vigouroux: 01:47:40 Yeah, considering that this, like, Marie Vigouroux: 01:47:41 came to life, like, 24 hours ago. Jeremy Greer: 01:47:43 I think that we did really well. We're gonna Jeremy Greer: 01:47:46 have like, 14 episodes back before Jake is, like, ready to Jeremy Greer: 01:47:48 do the music. Marie Vigouroux: 01:47:49 I know oh my god. Jeremy Greer: 01:47:57 oh, Mary's here. Marie Vigouroux: 01:47:58 Oh, hi, hello. I was like, Wait a second. Okay, Marie Vigouroux: 01:48:01 so let me just read this. Jeremy Greer: 01:48:03 Make sure everything is going fine. Marie Vigouroux: 01:48:06 Let me just make sure that the right mic is Marie Vigouroux: 01:48:09 connected and that the right headphones are connected, and Marie Vigouroux: 01:48:12 everything seems like it's fine. Jeremy Greer: 01:48:14 Yeah, you sound great. So I don't think it Jeremy Greer: 01:48:16 should be aproblem. So I like using zencastr. I haven't moved Jeremy Greer: 01:48:22 me and Chris to it yet, but I'm going to, since it just Jeremy Greer: 01:48:25 basically has a backup of our audio when I start recording. Marie Vigouroux: 01:48:27 I love that. Jeremy Greer: 01:48:28 But I know you're going to, like, apply a

filter Jeremy Greer: 01:48:30 to yours. So if you just want to upload your either mp3 or Jeremy Greer: 01:48:33 wavfile to the drive the shareholder, I'll just pull it Jeremy Greer: 01:48:37 from there, and if something happens, we'll have a backup. Marie Vigouroux: 01:48:40 So yeah, that's perfect. That's usually we do Marie Vigouroux: 01:48:43 something similar also. So yeah, that's perfect. It's just Marie Vigouroux: 01:48:47 because, like, I have, for some reason when I speak, like, I Marie Vigouroux: 01:48:51 don't know if it's my mic or my mouth, but like, there's a lot Marie Vigouroux: 01:48:53 of mouth clicks and so for anybody with like, misophonia, Marie Vigouroux: 01:48:56 it's really hard to listen to me. So we found that using a Marie Vigouroux: 01:49:01 declicker is really, really helpful for not hearing those. Jeremy Greer: 01:49:07 Interesting, yeah, yeah, nobody's ever given us Jeremy Greer: 01:49:10 that feedback. So I hope - I never heard that. So hopefully - Marie Vigouroux: 01:49:16 No, but you guys, it doesn't you don't sound Marie Vigouroux: 01:49:18 like that, because I hear it very, very much. And like, you Marie Vigouroux: 01:49:20 guys don't sound like that at all. Your audio is always great. Jeremy Greer: 01:49:24 The only thing I've ever heard was apparently, Jeremy Greer: 01:49:27 at some point, podcasts were trying to do, like, imagine if, Jeremy Greer: 01:49:32 like, you were in the left audio and Drew was in the right audio. Marie Vigouroux: 01:49:36 Oh no. Jeremy Greer: 01:49:37 And of course, like, if you're if you have any Jeremy Greer: 01:49:39 kind of problems with your hearing, that would just Jeremy Greer: 01:49:40 probably drive you absolutely crazy. So just like the absolute Jeremy Greer: 01:49:43 so just like the absolute necessity, the thing that I've Jeremy Greer: 01:49:44 always heard the absolute necessity, they're recording and Jeremy Greer: 01:49:46 publish in mono, so it just puts it in both speakers. Marie Vigouroux: 01:49:49 Oh my god, I can't even imagin. Jeremy Greer: 01:49:52 It's not like we're passing this through like Jeremy Greer: 01:49:53 a Dolby Atmos system anyway, most people are just like Jeremy Greer: 01:49:58 running down the road with earphones on. Marie Vigouroux: 01:50:02 Or at the grocery store, you know, or in Marie Vigouroux: 01:50:04 their car, it's fine, you know. Jeremy Greer: 01:50:07 I guess we need to decide on a name before we go Marie Vigouroux: 01:50:09 We do. So I'm actually really sad that Good Marie Vigouroux: 01:50:09 too much Marie Vigouroux: 01:50:14 Eats can't work, because I really did love that. I thought Marie Vigouroux: 01:50:16 that was so fucking funny. Jeremy Greer: 01:50:18 I love good eats. And I mean, we can, we can roll Jeremy Greer: 01:50:21 the dice on it. I don't, I don't. I got away with using Jeremy Greer: 01:50:25 Carry on my wayward son by Kansas and sponsor the week for Jeremy Greer: 01:50:27 years. So, like - Marie Vigouroux: 01:50:29 I know! I can't believe that happened. Jeremy Greer: 01:50:30 I just don't think people pay attention to podcasts Jeremy Greer: 01:50:33 like that until they get huge, right? And at that point, I Jeremy Greer: 01:50:37 think it's a good problem to have. Maybe the podcast formerly Jeremy Greer: 01:50:40 known as Good Eats. Marie Vigouroux: 01:50:40 Can you imagine? Jeremy Greer: 01:50:49 So I'm willing to roll with good eats. If you are. Jeremy Greer: 01:50:51 If not, then our other options that we were to discuss on last Jeremy Greer: 01:50:54 night are all great. I think Autumn really liked Sunday roast Jeremy Greer: 01:50:57 if we're gonna do it on Sundays. Chris, I haven't told Chris Jeremy Greer: 01:51:01 anything. I was just like out of context. Pick a four. Context. Jeremy Greer: 01:51:04 Pick a phrase cave in the first he doesn't even know what it is, Jeremy Greer: 01:51:07 and he chose rude eats, which is, I think is a pretty good Jeremy Greer: 01:51:12 variation on Good Eats. Yeah, you'll see. You saw a little bit Jeremy Greer: 01:51:16 of it in this episode where, like Hannibal despises rudeness Jeremy Greer: 01:51:19 in people. You can pick up on it when Franklin, like, puts the Jeremy Greer: 01:51:25 the used tissue on the table, and he, like, Hannibal, like, Jeremy Greer: 01:51:28 stares at it, what did you just do? Marie Vigouroux: 01:51:32 And just the way that he eats, right? Like, Marie Vigouroux: 01:51:34 there's a very specific way he's holding himself, like, very Marie Vigouroux: 01:51:36 straight, like, there's, there's the art of eating is definitely Marie Vigouroux: 01:51:42 there. Okay, well, I mean, in that case, I really like rude Marie Vigouroux: 01:51:45 eats too. Okay, I do like Sunday - because I find that it's Marie Vigouroux: 01:51:49 like, the good - the the play on good eats, which I find, I Marie Vigouroux: 01:51:53 thought that was hilarious. Jeremy Greer: 01:51:54 Yeah, good eats was like, my I really fell in Jeremy Greer: 01:51:57 love with it. As soon as I said it, I was like, Oh, I'm joking Jeremy Greer: 01:51:59 about this. No, wait, haha, I'm serious. Marie Vigouroux: 01:52:02 but actually, this is really good. Jeremy Greer: 01:52:04 Oh, wait, this was a good idea. Oh no, oh no, Marie Vigouroux: 01:52:07 oh no, undo it. I wish I hadn't thought of that. Marie Vigouroux: 01:52:10 Well, let's, let's, let's roll with rude eats. Jeremy Greer: 01:52:13 I'm into it. I'm going to rename our shared Jeremy Greer: 01:52:17 folder to rude eats. I was thinking and tell me, tell me Jeremy Greer: 01:52:23 your opinion about this. So I was thinking we could, I don't Jeremy Greer: 01:52:26 know how much time you have today, so just, just let me Jeremy Greer: 01:52:28 know. But I was thinking we

could do a trailer, and as part Jeremy Greer: 01:52:32 of that trailer, also do introductions, so we could talk Jeremy Greer: 01:52:35 about, like, our respective histories or lack thereof with Jeremy Greer: 01:52:38 the franchise. That way, when we do the first episode, like we Jeremy Greer: 01:52:42 could go right into the format without having to do all of that Jeremy Greer: 01:52:45 work, right, like we could just go right into the episode. But I Jeremy Greer: 01:52:47 don't, I don't know how much time you have today, so I don't Jeremy Greer: 01:52:49 know if we can do both at the same time, or how do you wanted Jeremy Greer: 01:52:51 to do it. Marie Vigouroux: 01:52:52 So I am actually off today, because Marie Vigouroux: 01:52:55 today is a stat holiday for us. So if we want to do that, I Marie Vigouroux: 01:53:00 think that that would be a really good idea, because that Marie Vigouroux: 01:53:02 way, again, it's like one less thing to do, right? It's like, Marie Vigouroux: 01:53:05 just check, check, check. Jeremy Greer: 01:53:07 And then we can, of course, we can't really edit Jeremy Greer: 01:53:10 and publish these until we have music, but we'll all have, like, Jeremy Greer: 01:53:13 placeholder stuff in place for, oh, I never looked at your Lyric Jeremy Greer: 01:53:16 stuff. I got home. I forgot about it. I need to do that. Marie Vigouroux: 01:53:18 Oh, my God. I need to see your reaction to Marie Vigouroux: 01:53:20 them. Some of them are kind of ridiculous. Jeremy Greer: 01:53:31 Oh, I love this. Absolutely love this. I love the Jeremy Greer: 01:53:36 way she gets just more and more desperate as that song goe. Marie Vigouroux: 01:53:39 Exactly. Jeremy Greer: 01:53:41 like it's just really, really funny. If we if I Jeremy Greer: 01:53:44 was less ethical, I would try to do, like, an AI Mads Mickelson Jeremy Greer: 01:53:47 voice to do this. I'm absolutely not going to do that.love this Jeremy Greer: 01:53:52 Jack, what other thing have I asked you for? Oh, that's Jeremy Greer: 01:53:54 perfect. Marie Vigouroux: 01:53:56 Because I'm like, okay, because, like, Who Marie Vigouroux: 01:53:57 is he talking to? He's talking to Jack. Okay, so, like, that's Marie Vigouroux: 01:54:00 what he wants. Jeremy Greer: 01:54:01 That's exactly the angle I had, too. Of like Jeremy Greer: 01:54:04 Hannibal, like he meets Jack, and the jack is like, hiding Jeremy Greer: 01:54:08 Will from him, essentially, right? But like giving him Jeremy Greer: 01:54:10 access, and he's like, give me that boy. I want the boy. Jeremy Greer: 01:54:14 I don't care about anything else. Like, just give me the Jeremy Greer: 01:54:15 boy. Marie Vigouroux: 01:54:22 All right, do you want me to? Me to cut here? Marie Vigouroux: 01:54:24 I guess. Jeremy Greer: 01:54:24 No, just, I'll just keep all the audio in one Jeremy Greer: 01:54:27 project for this, and just export the trailer separately, Jeremy Greer: 01:54:30 that way we don't have to stop. Marie Vigouroux: 01:54:31 Sounds good. Jeremy Greer: 01:54:32 Yeah, that was good. I think that's this is Jeremy Greer: 01:54:34 gonna be great. Marie Vigouroux: 01:54:34 That was fun. It was very cute. I liked it. I Marie Vigouroux: 01:54:38 felt like people needed to know how this came to be because, Marie Vigouroux: 01:54:40 like - Jeremy Greer: 01:54:41 Yes, absolutely.I Marie Vigouroux: 01:54:43 I love it so much. Jeremy Greer: 01:54:44 48, hours later, yeah. Marie Vigouroux: 01:54:47 Barely, like, I think, I think you threw out the Marie Vigouroux: 01:54:50 idea on a Friday and it's Mon - Saturday. Yeah, it was Saturday. Jeremy Greer: 01:54:54 It was Saturday. Marie Vigouroux: 01:54:55 Oh, my God, we're insane. Jeremy Greer: 01:54:56 I was driving home from picking up groceries.When I Jeremy Greer: 01:55:00 was just in that song when I got home on the internet. So it was Jeremy Greer: 01:55:04 very specifically, Saturday morning which is hilarious. Marie Vigouroux: 01:55:14 You okay? Jeremy Greer: 01:55:14 Yeah, just knocked over my microphone. Marie Vigouroux: 01:55:17 Oh! I was like oh my God, did you fall? Jason Marie Vigouroux: 01:55:21 Derulo has fallen down the stairs. Jeremy Greer: 01:55:23 I was trying to stand up and, like, move my body Jeremy Greer: 01:55:26 a little bit and just straight up, knocked over the microphone. Jeremy Greer: 01:55:29 So, yeah, drop a marker and just pick it up with the where he's Jeremy Greer: 01:55:34 at on the spectrum. I'm gonna go from there. Jeremy Greer: 01:55:41 Do you mind if we take a quick break? I'm gonna get some some Jeremy Greer: 01:55:42 more water. Marie Vigouroux: 01:55:43 Yeah, of course. Jeremy Greer: 01:55:43 I'll be right back. Marie Vigouroux: 01:55:44 Yep. Jeremy Greer: 01:55:48 All right, I am back. Marie Vigouroux: 01:55:50 Perfect. I brought myself, like, a very Marie Vigouroux: 01:55:52 large glass of water because I was like, I don't know how long Jeremy Greer: 01:55:55 I have a feeling these are gonna be, like, two Jeremy Greer: 01:55:55 this is gonna take. Jeremy Greer: 01:55:58 and a half hour episodes. And I love it, like I'm here for it. Jeremy Greer: 01:56:01 If you've got the time and the energy to put into that, I'm Jeremy Greer: 01:56:03 100% into it because. Marie Vigouroux: 01:56:05 Well, that's also why I'm like, let's just do Marie Vigouroux: 01:56:07 it, like, every other week, because then, like, there's, Marie Vigouroux: 01:56:11 there's time. Jeremy Greer: 01:56:11 Yeah, exactly. Marie Vigouroux: 01:56:12 Because I don't, I don't want to dis, Marie Vigouroux: 01:56:14 quote, unquote, disappoint people by being like, Oh, yeah. Marie Vigouroux: 01:56:16 Like, especially if it happens often that, like, we can't do it Marie Vigouroux: 01:56:19 every week. So yeah, there you go. Jeremy Greer: 01:56:21 I'm in -very much into that idea, yeah, when you, Jeremy Greer: 01:56:24 when you, when you suggested bi weekly, I was like, Absolutely, Jeremy Greer: 01:56:27 yeah. I kind of assumed that you and I were gonna get into like, Jeremy Greer: 01:56:30 some really good details, like every single scene. And then Jeremy Greer: 01:56:32 when I watched the episode again, I was like, oh no, oh no. Jeremy Greer: 01:56:35 There's so much to talk about. There's so much going on. Marie Vigouroux: 01:56:40 Everything that happens, just like has a Marie Vigouroux: 01:56:42 purpose. And I love that kind of storytelling, like it's just so Marie Vigouroux: 01:56:46 good. Jeremy Greer: 01:56:46 It's so good. It really is. Marie Vigouroux: 01:56:48 Oh, my God. Jeremy Greer: 01:56:49 I'm gonna take us back in. Jeremy Greer: 01:56:52 What's gonna be ouroutro, what's a good like, Marie Vigouroux: 01:56:52 Yeah. Marie Vigouroux: 01:56:58 outro, save, saveyour appetite. Don't fill up. Marie Vigouroux: 01:57:03 Yeah, Bon appetit! Marie Vigouroux: 01:57:05 Bon appétit is very good, yeah, let's do that. Yeah, I'm gonna Marie Vigouroux: 01:57:09 let you. I'll let you take it from there.