Jakson When Perfect Plans Go Wrong with Jon Tenney... (S6 E8 "The Catch") täydellinen litterointi

LA. She gave me my, introduced me to my, the dentist that I needed, you know, show me where the dry cleaner was, showed me, introduced me to a whole bunch of friends, Willie Garson being one of them who like showed me around LA. And she said, Oh, you have to meet this person and that person. And, and, uh, It was really, she was such a dear, dear friend and sort of introduced me to Los Angeles. And then, you know, we did that show for two seasons. And in between the first season and the second season, you know, we were all on hiatus. And I said, well, what are you doing on the hiatus? You know, Sarah, she goes, well, you know, I'm going back to New York and I'm doing this play. It's actually a really interesting play called The Substance of Fire. You should read it. So I read it. I auditioned for it. I got it. And I ended up doing, Sarah and I then ended up doing a play in between the two seasons together where we went from playing like a romantic couple to playing brother and sister. 00:04:08 Speaker 1: Wow. 00:04:09 Speaker 3: And I ended up doing that play for on and off for a couple of years, actually, between Off-Broadway and then Lincoln Center. Then we did in Los Angeles for a bit. But it was really... And she was really key in me getting that job, which really opened up a whole, introduced me to a whole other group of people in the New York theater that ended up going on for the rest of my life. And so it was very fun when I got your very kind invite to come on your show here to see that particular episode about you know, how do you nurture those relationships and how does that shift over time as you get older and the importance of it? 00:04:59 Speaker 1: So it was, uh, first of all, I saw that play. 00:05:04 Speaker 2: I remember that play. 00:05:06 Speaker 1: It was so good. The substance of fire. Amazing play. John Robin Bates. 00:05:10 Speaker 3: John Robbie. But yeah, we, in fact, he's, he's got a revival of another beautiful play he wrote called other desert cities that I just saw, uh, a couple of weeks ago, just opened here in New York. 00:05:20 Speaker 1: And Hickey directed. John Benjamin Hickey directed. 00:05:23 Speaker 3: And Hickey directed it. And Hickey came in, actually, to Substance of Fire. He wasn't in the original company, but then he ended up coming in and understudying and then taking over. And so, yeah, he's part of that whole company, too. 00:05:38 Speaker 2: It's all connected. I love it so much. I didn't know all those connections either. But I think that Sarah Jessica is a very excellent– like practical friend to have where she could tell you, you know, where to go and who to meet and what to do and all the good doctors. 00:05:56 Speaker 3: She's good like that. She was very good. I remember when we were doing substance in New York, she also, this was back when you had tokens for the subways. Remember those subway tokens? And she gave for, for, uh, uh, opening night gift. One of the opening gifts was a little, uh, subway token holder. So you could carry, you know, like 10 tokens at once in a little, a little plastic sleeve or whatever. 00:06:22 Speaker 1: Oh, that's adorable. That is so great. I love it. 00:06:26 Speaker 2: I remember also watching that show equal justice. I remember it because I thought that it was really good. And I, I can't remember where I must've been living in New York at the time. It's out of college. And I was like, those are theater actors. Like those are real actors on that show. 00:06:44 Speaker 3: It was a lot of theater actors. Yeah. I mean, Barry Miller, Connor Smith, Sarah Jane Kaczmarek. It was a really great, great company. Right. No, I felt very, very spoiled. Very, very spoiled. 00:06:58 Speaker 1: It's great. It's so great. 00:07:01 Speaker 3: It was great. Yeah. I know. I was very, very fortunate for that. 00:07:05 Speaker 2: And then, so then, obviously, many, many years go by. Everyone's doing so many different things. And then how did it come that you came to join us? on and just like that? 00:07:16 Speaker 3: Uh, well, actually I think, I think Hickey might've had something to do with it. You know, he, he, you know, I never got to do sex in the city, which I always was like, Oh, I want to be on. I know all those people I want to be involved. And for whatever reason, it didn't, it didn't happen. So when I got this call, like, Oh, Michael Patrick King wants to meet you and do a little zoom. And, um, we're interested in this part and, and, uh, I come to find out after I got there, I think they were looking to cast the part. And I think Hickey was with Sarah and said something like, what about Tenny? And she was like, Oh yes. Okay, great. And I, and that's how it all. So again, you know, friends helping friends and absolutely. 00:08:00 Speaker 1: Yeah. Love it. You were so perfect for that role. 00:08:04 Speaker 3: It was, it was so much fun. It was, it was so much fun. 00:08:08 Speaker 1: You guys were so great. 00:08:11 Speaker 3: It was, it was, uh, We had the Zoom, Michael and I, and he was sort of pitching a little bit of the episode, that first episode, and he got to the thing, and then you just projectile vomit. And I'm like, and at the end of it, I was like, you know, Mike, you had me from vomit. I was in, you had me from vomit. 00:08:36 Speaker 2: So good and so crazy. Like the two of you both. 00:08:42 Speaker 1: I mean, oh my gosh. But weirdly funny. 00:08:46 Speaker 3: I want to see the outtakes of that because we, you know, we ended up, you know, I remember when we shot that, it was, you know, they had like tubes that shot stuff out and then we had to, it was a whole thing. 00:08:59 Speaker 1: But you guys pulled it off. It looks amazing. 00:09:04 Speaker 2: It's just funny and weird, you know, like it's one of those, Michael Patrick can do this thing where he can, you know, twist things in a way that you don't see coming, you know, because there's something so sweet about. 00:09:16 Speaker 1: The both

of you being widowers, you know, it's like. 00:09:18 Speaker 3: It just undercuts it. Exactly. It's very funny. It's really funny. There was, I appreciated the humor so much. It was so fun to go back into Sex and the City and watch, you know, rewatch this episode. Because I was reminded of, you know, one of the things I just loved about the show you all did was how you would keep on undercutting. You know, you'd set something up and then just these little zingers would come in. 00:09:45 Speaker 1: So true. 00:09:47 Speaker 3: It was very funny and very human. And there was always, you know, a serious thing underneath, you know, a serious sort of theme, but done in such an interesting way. fun, funny way. 00:10:02 Speaker 1: Agreed. 00:10:03 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:10:03 Speaker 2: Did you watch the show back in the day when it was happening? 00:10:07 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. 00:10:08 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. You know, totally. It was like a delicious show. Pleasure. 00:10:16 Speaker 1: Oh, thank you. I love this episode. And I hadn't I'd watched pieces of it. I think I had Evan on. 00:10:23 Speaker 2: And so I was kind of trying to piece together because there's a lot of things I don't really remember that clearly. And I do remember when Sarah is doing, you know, the trapeze thing on West Side Highway. 00:10:36 Speaker 1: And I remember driving by it for all those years like, oh, this place. And I remember she was scared. She was scared. It was scary. It was like you're really high up there. Oh, yeah. 00:10:49 Speaker 2: And we all had to be like moral support for her. And I remember Willie there like cheering her on so sweetly. But I had forgotten the beautiful writing that went around it. As you're saying, like the voiceover where she talks about how it gets harder as you're growing older to take risks. Right. 00:11:09 Speaker 3: And when, you know, when does that happen? It just sort of, yeah, I mean, as, as, as I've gotten older and, you know, your, yeah, your perspective shifts and what, you know, what you didn't always, you know, things that you took for granted, you really, you really start thinking about. And, and I think, you know, I walked away from that episode watching it really being very very thankful for, you know, community, especially as us, you know, as actors, you know, it's, it's such a community and it's really very small on a certain level, you know, people who keep on showing up and, and it's, you know, it's a rollercoaster, as you know, you're up and you're down and you're up and you're down and you really, you know, when I talk to younger actors today, I always really think that what I like to talk about is the importance of community and to really commit to that. And like the episode ends so beautifully, you know, it's very clever. Like I had a net, you know, I had, I had some, I had a support structure that was helping me in these transitions. And certainly as an actor, I feel like that's just gets you through everything. 00:12:22 Speaker 1: Absolutely. 00:12:24 Speaker 3: Yes. 00:12:25 Speaker 2: And I think it's, I, I wonder for the young actors, how, you know, separate from theater in New York. Like I wonder in LA how they're finding each other these days. 00:12:37 Speaker 3: I know, you know, I had some nieces and nephews, younger couple who were going into the business and it seems so, I don't know whether it's just because I, you know, when I was that age, you know, coming up, maybe it's just, I didn't know enough. I just, I seemed fearless. You know, I just, But it seems harder today, I think, you know, especially with all these, you know, we're having this conversation over Zoom. But it's crazy how all these actors are doing these on-tape auditions and they're isolated, alone, getting no feedback. You know, AI readers are recording their own voice. You know, my wife and I just done this show. I don't know if you've had a chance to see it, American Classic. 00:13:22 Speaker 1: No, tell me about it. 00:13:24 Speaker 3: Oh, well, that's a whole other conversation. But it's a show that my wife and I have been developing for many years. 00:13:31 Speaker 1: Amazing. 00:13:32 Speaker 3: You can watch it on MGM +. Okay. It's on air now. 00:13:35 Speaker 1: Yay. 00:13:36 Speaker 3: But it's all about the theater, and it's all about community and family and the importance of that. But we were auditioning a lot of actors for that, and we'd get all these tapes sent in, and you'd hear these young actors, and you'd listen to the audition, and you'd say, oh, wait a minute, they're actually reading their lines and the other characters' lines, they've just recorded themselves. Like it's such a weird, isolated experience for them. And yeah, it's never been more important. 00:14:09 Speaker 1: Absolutely true. 00:14:10 Speaker 2: I think the other thing that's scary is that in some ways it's great that there is social media and you can like make a name for yourself or whatever that means on social media and potentially even earn money, but it's also isolating. 00:14:25 Speaker 3: Oh, yes. Yeah. And I listen to some people saying like, oh, well, I'm being engaged. I'm being very social. I'm on social media. I've got my phone. I'm looking at. And it's like you're actually, it's the opposite of that. You're actually being antisocial, but it fools you into thinking you're actually engaging when you're really isolating. 00:14:47 Speaker 2: It's true, but it's so complicated because like a lot is happening in the world right now, which I don't know when we're going to air this, right? 00:14:56 Speaker 1: But like it's a lot, right? 00:14:59 Speaker 3: Oh, yes. I mean, I'm very tired today because I was up very late last night. 00:15:02 Speaker 1: Exactly. Exactly. And I'm in LA, so I didn't have to stay up late. 00:15:05 Speaker 2: But then I got up this morning and I mean, there are people crying on their social media and then I'm crying. 00:15:12 Speaker 1: And I do

feel connected. I do really feel connected to those people. 00:15:18 Speaker 3: Well, yes, look, it's, that's the, that's the catch 22 and it's both things. You, you feel Connected and disconnected at the same time. It's a very odd, odd mix. It is. 00:15:32 Speaker 2: But it can make you feel better from seeing people sharing your experience. 00:15:39 Speaker 3: A hundred percent. And you, you know, I was listening to again on social media. I forgot this woman's name. She was so smart, but she was talking about how you have to recognize that you can, you get up in the morning and in the first, you know, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, you're up. You know everything that's going on across the entire world, places you've never been before. You have all this information, all this news thrown at you, a lot of times without any sort of editorial. You don't even know if it's true or not true, but you're flooded with this. And then you sort of go about your day and you have to give a moment like, wait a minute, I'm just, I'm a human being. Like that has an effect on you. You can't hold on to all of that without it having an effect on you that you you have that much information and and i i think like we're all kind of walking around with a little ptsd in a way because we're inundated um so yes on one level it's fabulous because you you are so informed but i think you have to remind yourself to to spend i think we need time to process it. 00:16:50 Speaker 1: I guess yes So true. 00:16:53 Speaker 2: And acknowledge what you're saying, you know, to acknowledge for ourselves, like, oh, this is a change. This is what our world is now. 00:17:00 Speaker 1: It's a lot. How do we talk to our kids about it? 00:17:03 Speaker 2: You know, how do we manage it? It is really interesting. but I do feel also like if you think about just you and I, right, I had never really met you or spent time with you until you were around on our set, which was so exciting. 00:17:14 Speaker 1: Cause I've been a fan for a long time, but. 00:17:17 Speaker 2: Yet we're in this bigger group, you know, it's not a huge group, but it's like a group where we know people more connected to other people for time, you know, over time. 00:17:28 Speaker 1: It's amazing. 00:17:30 Speaker 3: There is that shared experience. Absolutely. There's no, um, there, there's no shortcut for that. You know, you, um, I get more appreciative of that the older I get and the longer I'm around. How, again, coming back to what we were talking about earlier, the importance of that sense of community. I mean, certainly in our business, but I think in the world in general. 00:18:04 Speaker 2: All right, let's talk a little bit more about the show, because sometimes I have trouble, if my guest is really interesting like you are, actually recapping. 00:18:11 Speaker 1: So we're going to recap. 00:18:11 Speaker 3: We have to recap. 00:18:12 Speaker 1: We have to recap. That's my job. Oh, did you ever meet Alan Taylor? He's the director of this episode. 00:18:17 Speaker 2: He was a Sopranos director, and he's kind of around. 00:18:20 Speaker 3: No, I've been such a fan of his work. But no, we've never worked together. But I saw that when his name popped up at the end. I mean, he did a bunch of episodes. 00:18:29 Speaker 1: Didn't he? He did. He's a great, great director. 00:18:31 Speaker 2: He is. 00:18:32 Speaker 3: He's terrific. 00:18:33 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was doing Sopranos. 00:18:35 Speaker 2: And then I think he did a bunch of Game of Thrones, like, you know, all the big HBO shows. 00:18:40 Speaker 3: He was one of those primo, the A-list directors. 00:18:43 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes. And a great guy, a really, really great guy. 00:18:46 Speaker 2: And it's written by Cindy Shupak, who was... Our second female writer, Jenny Bix, was the first, and then Cindy came second season and then followed the show, rose up in the ranks to executive producer. Great, great writer and great person. And she is now writing on this show called The Best Medicine with Josh Charles. 00:19:10 Speaker 3: Oh, right. I haven't seen it. It's great. It's on. 00:19:14 Speaker 1: It's on. 00:19:14 Speaker 3: It's on. 00:19:15 Speaker 1: Oh, I have to see it. It's a big hit. It's so exciting. And it is created. I know, it's fine. 00:19:21 Speaker 2: It's hard these days to know, you know, what is going on. It's a hit on like regular TV. 00:19:29 Speaker 3: How rare is that? 00:19:30 Speaker 1: I know, right? It's amazing. 00:19:32 Speaker 2: And it's written and created by our last joining female writer, Liz Tichillo. So it's a, it's a, and she's now gotten Cindy to go write with her. And then she got two of our, and just like that writers, Aliza and Julie to also go write in the writer's room. 00:19:49 Speaker 3: It's interesting. 00:19:50 Speaker 1: It's a wonderful thing. 00:19:50 Speaker 3: Community. Exactly. 00:19:52 Speaker 1: Exactly. 00:19:53 Speaker 2: Right. And it's a lovely, lovely show. It's a lovely show. It's like a fish out of water. He's a doctor and he has to, he's afraid of blood, which is interesting. 00:20:01 Speaker 3: Right. I'm seeing that poster now. Yep. Yep. 00:20:05 Speaker 2: Yep. And he goes to a small town and it's super charming and adorable. So I'm really happy for them. It's really nice. And also the writing is so beautiful. And I had really forgotten, the only thing that I remember, I had forgotten that our wedding, Evan and I's wedding in this, Harry and Charlotte, obviously, was. 00:20:21 Speaker 1: In this one. And that's a sweet story. 00:20:23 Speaker 2: But also I'd forgotten how kind of beautifully created the Carrie storyline is with the trapeze and how Deep, deep it was. 00:20:33 Speaker 3: Oh, no, absolutely. It was very, very touching. And so funny, you know, when she comes back to your wedding and she's just completely hunched over from her neck injury. 00:20:45 Speaker 1: Her jackrabbit sex, I know. 00:20:47 Speaker 3: Her sex injury. 00:20:49

Speaker 1: Yeah. So embarrassing. But she does it so well. 00:20:52 Speaker 2: And she had to stay like half bent over like for. 00:20:57 Speaker 1: A good part of that episode. 00:21:00 Speaker 3: It's fantastic. It's really. And I have to say, that section, the sequence where you are just, you can't wait to get the Times announcement. And then it comes back and like, I look like Hitler. I've got a Jewish wedding and I look like Hitler with the mustache. 00:21:16 Speaker 1: I know. 00:21:16 Speaker 3: That is just hysterical. 00:21:18 Speaker 1: It's hysterical and sadly based on real life. I didn't get married. 00:21:24 Speaker 2: I didn't have to do anything with wedding section, but I was doing a play called The Exonerated. 00:21:28 Speaker 1: Do you remember The Exonerated? 00:21:29 Speaker 3: Oh, yes. 00:21:30 Speaker 2: Yeah, I did The Exonerated. I played Sonny Jacobs, an incredible woman. And they came down to, you know, do a piece on me for the New York Times, which I was so excited because trying to get press for... you know, a real life, you know, play about people who are wrongly put on death row. 00:21:47 Speaker 1: Very hard to do. 00:21:48 Speaker 2: So they come down, you know, it's one of those things where they take a picture of you in the theater, but it's not like a photo shoot. 00:21:53 Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? You don't have hair and makeup or anything like that. You're not even. 00:21:56 Speaker 3: Right. There's, Lit. 00:21:58 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? 00:21:59 Speaker 3: You were in the original company. Because didn't they end up then doing it like actors would come in? But you were originally. 00:22:03 Speaker 1: No, I wasn't original. No, I came in later. I came in later. 00:22:06 Speaker 2: That's why it was a really big deal to try to get the New York Times down there, right? So I was so excited. Yeah, it was amazing. 00:22:12 Speaker 1: It was fantastic until. 00:22:15 Speaker 2: The picture came out and there was like something ink on my face, on the upper lip. 00:22:22 Speaker 1: It was real. 00:22:23 Speaker 3: It happened. 00:22:24 Speaker 2: And I was like, well, it's gotta just be mine, right? It's just gotta be in the printing. 00:22:29 Speaker 1: No, it was every single picture. It was horrible. 00:22:34 Speaker 3: That's a very funny sequence when you're talking to Sarah Jessica and that, and you're saying like, and she's like, oh yeah, no, I see it. Maybe it's just, Mine and yours. Exactly. 00:22:46 Speaker 1: It's real. This happened, okay? And I do think I called everybody. You know what I mean? Like, so mortifying. 00:22:55 Speaker 3: I don't have that story, but I have a version of it. The very first television movie I ever did was this thing where I did with Suzanne Plachette. And I was so excited. George Sanford Brown directed it. It was Suzanne Plachette and Danny Aiello and I played this young policeman and it was going to be in the TV guide and I was going to be in the TV guide. Wow. The name was going because it was a big enough part. And I was like so excited to see my name in TV guide. And it finally comes and I open up the TV guide and it has my character's name and it says Joe Penny. it's not john but joe penny i'm like joe penny what are you kidding. 00:23:36 Speaker 2: Me they got both names wrong both. 00:23:39 Speaker 3: Right they got both you know because you know i spell my name john without an h right my full name is jonathan so i use always j-o-n so sometimes i get the h so i'm sure they looked at it and they said oh can't be j-o-n it's gotta be j-o-e joe and Who the hell is the penny? I've never heard of this guy. It's Joe Penny. 00:23:58 Speaker 1: That's terrible. That's terrible. That's sad. I know we do. We do. 00:24:03 Speaker 2: We get excited about little things and then they can really go wrong. But that was one of the few times that Michael just put something like directly from my life in there. And I do think I remember it thinking it was funny and good. 00:24:15 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? 00:24:16 Speaker 3: Well, yes. That's why you can never really tell stories around writers because it will end up, you know. So true. 00:24:22 Speaker 1: So true. 00:24:23 Speaker 2: And usually for us, it wasn't such a situation in the beginning of the show because it was about dating and it was really the writer's stories. So we used to be like, whatever, you know, it's all about them. And then every once in a while they'd get one of ours, embarrassingly. But I do like I do like that this is also, you know, because the storyline with Charlotte had been, you know, she's so desperate to get married for the first two, three seasons, whatever it is. Then she finds the Kyle, you know, the tray of it all. But it's not it's like pretty on the outside, but not real on the inside. Then she finds Harry. He doesn't look right on the outside, but he's real on the inside. But we still have to find a way for her to get the pie in the face. So the whole episode is kind of like little ways of things going wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. That she has to try to handle, which I really like. 00:25:12 Speaker 3: Oh, it was really nice. And I love all the references to like when you spill the. the wine, and then all of a sudden it goes into the Italian Godfather, you know? 00:25:21 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:25:21 Speaker 3: It's just, it's just, it's fabulous. 00:25:24 Speaker 1: It's good. It's really good. 00:25:25 Speaker 2: And I'd also forgotten, and I'm a single person myself. So like when Samantha can't get her zipper up, I had totally forgotten about this. 00:25:32 Speaker 1: I've been through this as well. 00:25:34 Speaker 2: I one time went to the Met Ball in this vintage dress with this really tight corset. I get home, cannot get that thing off. My stylist is in Los Angeles. 00:25:45 Speaker 1: I called her. I was like having an anxiety attack. I had tried hangers. I had tried. And I was thinking like, wait,

didn't this happen in the show? What did she do in the show? 00:25:53 Speaker 2: You know, and I had forgotten it was this episode. And I had to call her and like, she had to like, let's calm down. Let's breathe slowly. Let's, you know, what if you try to turn the whole dress around, which is my advice for any single women who've gone through this, who might be listening, try to, you know, Exhale. 00:26:11 Speaker 3: Exactly. 00:26:11 Speaker 1: Exhale. 00:26:12 Speaker 2: And if you can get the sleeves off, then you can turn the dress around. It's a lot easier to get the zipper down in the front. 00:26:18 Speaker 3: Yes. Yes. 00:26:19 Speaker 1: That's my advice. 00:26:21 Speaker 3: I see. So rotate. 00:26:22 Speaker 1: Yeah, rotate. 00:26:23 Speaker 3: Exactly. 00:26:23 Speaker 1: If you can. If you can get the sleeves off. That's the big if. That's the big if. But I mean, and even though. 00:26:29 Speaker 2: It's kind of played for comic effect that, you know, she, Samantha, you know, doesn't need her boyfriend Smith, right? But she misses him because she can't get her bracelet off and she can't get her dress off. You know, it's cute, but it has a deeper, it has a whole deeper meaning happening. 00:26:45 Speaker 3: Yes. Yeah. No, I thought that was a really... I could really see that in this whole episode, all of those themes that are very funny, entertaining sequences. And then it sort of has that deeper bite to it, which really makes it so satisfying to. 00:27:00 Speaker 1: Definitely, definitely, definitely. 00:27:02 Speaker 2: And I also love and we'll go more in order. But, you know, Miranda has been all, you know, sadly pining after Steve, secretly pining after Steve. And it's really, she gives the speech and, you know, she gets kind of, you know, choked up. And then her script, her papers caught on fire, which I do remember filming. 00:27:22 Speaker 1: And it was great. 00:27:23 Speaker 2: And then I hit her with the bouquet when I throw it, which is so great because I do. 00:27:28 Speaker 1: Think that she marries Steve soon after. 00:27:30 Speaker 2: I mean, everyone listening probably knows. But I'm pretty sure she is the next one who gets married. But at this point, we don't know that. 00:27:38 Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh, that's right. Maybe she does. 00:27:40 Speaker 2: Right. 00:27:40 Speaker 3: It bounces off of her face. 00:27:43 Speaker 1: It's so cute. It's so, so cute. 00:27:46 Speaker 2: I love all of all of those. There's so, so many of those. And also, it's funny how the Carrie storyline, you know, she's by herself. She's trying to do this thing for her writer story to do the trapeze. 00:27:57 Speaker 1: And she can't do the catch, of course. 00:28:00 Speaker 2: And then she we were trying to push her with the groomsman who's horrible. 00:28:04 Speaker 1: No offense to that actor. you know really. 00:28:06 Speaker 2: Annoying and she does it she's like oh okay all right i'll do it. 00:28:09 Speaker 1: And then it goes horribly wrong horribly wrong and then. 00:28:13 Speaker 2: Her back's thrown out and he embarrasses her by you know basically calling her a whore you know during his speech it's so many different things go on it was kind of an action-packed episode. 00:28:26 Speaker 3: Oh yes what did he say he said to how um If I had known you were going to just use me for sex. 00:28:33 Speaker 1: I know. 00:28:34 Speaker 3: What? I know. 00:28:35 Speaker 1: I don't even remember. I mean, was he Howie? He's Brian. Kalen. 00:28:41 Speaker 2: Kalen. 00:28:42 Speaker 1: Good job. Good job, Brian. 00:28:45 Speaker 3: Yeah, he was very, very funny. I think he does stand-up. I think I've seen him do stand-up. 00:28:50 Speaker 1: Oh, no way. Well, that's interesting. I mean, you get that vibe from him, you know? 00:28:54 Speaker 3: Yeah, very, very funny. 00:28:56 Speaker 1: Very funny. And maybe Michael knew him. We'll have to investigate. I'll have to ask Michael. 00:29:00 Speaker 3: And he starts off, you think, as sort of charming at first. He's sort of very witty and, yeah. Definitely. 00:29:06 Speaker 2: I think anyone who can kind of, like, do repartee with Carrie, you're like, oh, good. 00:29:12 Speaker 1: You know, they're smart, right? But then, no, no, it goes wrong. It goes wrong. We should know after the burger situation, which we just rewatched. Oof, rough, rough. 00:29:23 Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. 00:29:24 Speaker 1: It started with Reperté and then it ends with the Post-it. Exactly. Really rough. Really rough. Have you ever been to that trapeze place? Is it still there? Have you driven down the West Side Highway? 00:29:35 Speaker 3: It's on the West Side Highway where Chelsea Piers is now. 00:29:39 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 00:29:40 Speaker 3: No, but I actually did. My daughter, when she was very, very young, had a friend who was really into circus stuff and had got convinced to go with her friend to like a trapeze thing, the same sort of deal. And this is when Emerson, I mean, she's now about to turn 29. But I know, like that, it goes fast. But this is, you know, she's like 12 or 13. And I actually went as a parent and watched my daughter go up on the thing, get strapped in, get the safety harness attached. And she was fearless, but I, of course, was a wreck watching it. Yeah. I've seen those. I've never done that trapeze myself. 00:30:25 Speaker 1: I would be very scared, very scared. I've never done it either. I don't know. Yeah, I don't think I could. Leap off and try to grab someone. No, I don't know. I don't know. 00:30:36 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:30:37 Speaker 1: It is scary. It is scary. 00:30:41 Speaker 3: Well, you left off doing the hosting a podcast. I mean, there you go. You threw yourself into the air. 00:30:46 Speaker 1: It's true. It's true. It's true. And then later I was like, oh, I have to keep going. 00:30:50 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:30:54 Speaker 1: But that's like anything, isn't it? 00:30:56 Speaker 2: You know, like you try something new and it's

always that whole learning curve of like, oh, yeah, I can do that. And then you're like, oh, wait, oh, no, maybe I can't do that. Oh, I'm just going to have to keep going. 00:31:06 Speaker 3: I always like that advice of like, you know, it's good to be a little scared. It's good to like conquer your fear. 00:31:13 Speaker 2: I agree. I don't think we would be actors if we didn't like that because every time I get a new job, I'm like, oh, I've got to do it. 00:31:25 Speaker 1: I've got to stand up in front of the people on the set and do it. 00:31:29 Speaker 3: Oh, I know. I know. It's crazy. I talk about it. It's amazing how people, I think, you know, people go, why are you nervous? What is that? You're shy? You're an actor. You can't be shy. I go, I got to say. More actors that I know are actually, they're not extrovert. They are more interior. They are more shy. They are more guarded that way because a lot of my friends that are actors are that way. 00:31:58 Speaker 1: It's true. 00:31:58 Speaker 3: People think it's counterintuitive. 00:32:00 Speaker 1: Right. 00:32:00 Speaker 2: No. 00:32:01 Speaker 1: We understand. 00:32:02 Speaker 2: It's because we're trying to get out of ourselves that we want to be an actor. 00:32:05 Speaker 3: There you go. 00:32:07 Speaker 2: Right? 00:32:07 Speaker 1: Right. 00:32:08 Speaker 2: And I also think that acting is very different than a lot of the things that people expect us to do nowadays, right? Like being kind of personally, you know, blah, blah, blah. 00:32:19 Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? 00:32:20 Speaker 3: You know, it's the antithesis of that. 00:32:22 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. We don't really want to do that. 00:32:24 Speaker 2: But that's the joy of podcast is that it feels very, very private, you know, which is wonderful. But then, of course, it does air and you're like, oh, yeah, I did say all those things. 00:32:33 Speaker 3: I know. I know. This is going to air and I'm going to go, wait, what the hell was I talking about? 00:32:37 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, you're great. You're perfect. What are you saying? You're perfect. 00:32:52 Speaker 2: Okay, wait, let's talk a little bit more about Miranda because I don't think I really did justice to this because this is when she, so Steve has this girlfriend who we yet haven't seen, but we're going to see soon. And she's quite adorable and very perfect for Steve really, but the opposite of Miranda in every way. And he's trying to get her to meet Miranda. He's trying to get Miranda to meet Debbie. And Miranda says, I want to meet Debbie because then she would be real. 00:33:21 Speaker 1: She tells Carrie. 00:33:22 Speaker 2: And then they come in and Miranda has to hide under the crib or whatever. 00:33:26 Speaker 1: That was crazy. I don't remember any of this. It's so funny. 00:33:28 Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, that's right. She comes in and she hears, yeah, she doesn't want to meet us. So she says, tell them I'm not here. And she hides in the baby's room. 00:33:36 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:33:37 Speaker 3: And then they forgot something in the crib and so they have to go into the baby's room. So she hides under the bed so that she's not spotted. And they have that great shot of her underneath where you just see the feet. 00:33:47 Speaker 1: It's so good. 00:33:48 Speaker 3: It's great. 00:33:49 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:33:49 Speaker 1: It's so funny. 00:33:50 Speaker 2: And then later she tells Carrie, I saw her hands and her shoes. And Carrie says, and? And she goes, they're both acrylic. 00:33:59 Speaker 1: It was really good. The whole lead up. 00:34:02 Speaker 3: Then she still has dust on her from underneath the thing. 00:34:04 Speaker 1: Yes, yes. 00:34:05 Speaker 3: I think as she's walking in, Sarah Jessica's like, what do you have on your, what do you have things on you? 00:34:10 Speaker 1: Definitely, definitely. 00:34:12 Speaker 2: It's a lot of funny little details go into the show in a way where it's like kind of amazing in retrospect how. 00:34:24 Speaker 1: Different it is than other shows, you know? 00:34:27 Speaker 3: It's really, it was really, you know, I hadn't watched an episode in a while and I, so it was really nice to come back to it. It's, I'd forgotten just how clever it is. It's very, very smart. And I, and I think those little, idiosyncratic truths, I think, are really, really great. And it's bold, too. I remember it's I mean, it's racy. I mean, for today. Oh, yeah. I know. 00:35:00 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:35:01 Speaker 3: I think it was done back then. 00:35:02 Speaker 1: I know it. 00:35:03 Speaker 3: I know. 00:35:04 Speaker 1: And it got so much. 00:35:05 Speaker 2: I think that in many ways, one of the reasons that it still has legs, so to speak, is, you know, there are so many different things happening. 00:35:13 Speaker 3: Right. 00:35:13 Speaker 2: So there's the shock value, which is what kind of got the press back then. Right. 00:35:17 Speaker 1: Like what people talked about. 00:35:18 Speaker 2: Sure. And then it was the style and I got a lot of stuff and it still does, of course, you know. But then the thing that keeps it going in my mind is the brilliant writing and the relationships and all of those little truths. So, so many little truths. Always. 00:35:34 Speaker 3: Well, you fall in love with the characters and you want to you want to see them in any, you know. once you love the characters, then you can, you want to experience whatever situation you want to throw me in. I just want to spend time with these people. 00:35:45 Speaker 1: It's true. It's so true. 00:35:48 Speaker 3: I know. 00:35:49 Speaker 2: I want to spend time with them too. And I know them, you know, I'm. 00:35:55 Speaker 3: Curious, does it feel to you? Like, can you, when you look back at it now, it's like, there's you and you're, you're Charlotte, but it's also a thing apart at the same time. Like it's, It's is you and it isn't you. 00:36:06 Speaker 1: Yes, definitely. Yes. Well

put. Really well put. 00:36:09 Speaker 2: And I think what's been interesting in rewatching it is seeing the differences because I have played her for so long. She's just regular to me. You know, she's part of me. I'm part of her, whatever you want to say. But when I look back, I'm like, oh, she's such a character. Like she's such a specific character and I'm not that, I don't even really know how that happened. 00:36:30 Speaker 1: Like, it's interesting. I mean, that's what we do. 00:36:33 Speaker 2: Right. But we so rarely get to do it for so long with the same people, you know? Yeah. 00:36:41 Speaker 3: It's a, that's a real, that's a real gift. I did, I did this show, the closer for, I think we did 109 episodes. 00:36:48 Speaker 1: Oh yes. 00:36:49 Speaker 2: Incredible. 00:36:50 Speaker 3: And it, yeah, it was like a, yeah, a, 109. 00:36:54 Speaker 1: Wow. 00:36:56 Speaker 3: But to have that kind of length of time to be in the same character, yeah, there's no shortcut for it. But it allows you to really do these little tiny gradations, little tiny growths. It's not like you have, OK, two hours to tell a story, beginning, middle, and end. It was a real gift. It was a luxury as an actor to be able to go deeper and deeper and deeper. But you need the length of time to do that. 00:37:23 Speaker 2: Yeah. And it's so rare and wonderful to get those opportunities. I just recently worked with Kevin Bacon. But of course, it was thrilling to work with Kevin. 00:37:31 Speaker 1: He's just. 00:37:32 Speaker 3: He is the best. The two of them are great. They're really... And they're just homebodies. They're very chill. And yeah, no, I adore them. 00:37:41 Speaker 1: Yeah, we talked about his kids and the goats. 00:37:43 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:37:45 Speaker 3: Oh, yeah? 00:37:45 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:37:46 Speaker 3: They have this fabulous farm up in upstate, like in the Connecticut-New York border. Yeah, I know he got this place when he was back in the 80s. He bought a small little patch of land, and then it kept on getting a little bigger and bigger. I think he bought it from somebody who kept on saying, you know, you might want to buy another acre because you don't want somebody to build a house there. So you go, okay, well, you have a point. So, all right, I'll get one more acre. 00:38:10 Speaker 1: Smart. 00:38:10 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:38:12 Speaker 3: Suckering him into getting more and more. But they have a beautiful, beautiful place. 00:38:18 Speaker 1: Worked out. Listen, land. Land is the thing. Yeah, yeah. They are. 00:38:22 Speaker 2: They're one of the best couples. They're so inspiring and awesome. 00:38:26 Speaker 3: They're just terrific. And they did this movie all together. Them and their kids. Family movie. I don't know if you had a chance to see that. It's fantastic. 00:38:34 Speaker 1: No, I haven't seen it yet. 00:38:35 Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. 00:38:36 Speaker 1: He was talking a lot about it. 00:38:38 Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, yeah. They directed it. They got it together. It's fabulous. And both Sosie and Travis, their son, did the music for it. They're all in it. They play a family. It's a family movie. It's really, really good. 00:38:52 Speaker 1: Love it. Love it. Love it. Okay, wait. What haven't we recapped? 00:38:57 Speaker 3: Did we get through everything? 00:38:58 Speaker 1: We mixed it in. 00:38:59 Speaker 3: Well done. We talked about the wedding. You guys up on the chairs. 00:39:03 Speaker 2: Also. 00:39:04 Speaker 3: High up, another throwback to the very first shot. 00:39:07 Speaker 2: I know, it's true, it's true. I was so annoyed that Charlotte had to be afraid. I was like, ugh, does she have to be afraid? 00:39:14 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? 00:39:15 Speaker 2: Like, Charlotte, sometimes her insecurities, I'd be like, oh, God, again? But it connected, so I couldn't, you know, I had to do it or whatever. But I'm not afraid of heights at all in that way, right? I would be afraid of the trapeze and letting go. That would scare. 00:39:30 Speaker 3: Me. 00:39:30 Speaker 1: But I was like, ah, we're in a chair. It's fine. 00:39:35 Speaker 2: But it connected everything so beautifully so i tried my best to do it but i think evan didn't want to be up in the chair he's coming back we'll ask him i feel like evan didn't want to be and i wanted to be you know what i mean like it's always you know it's always an interesting an interesting thing when you have to do something slightly off like that you know you guys. 00:39:55 Speaker 3: Are so good together the two of you it's really it's really fabulous i was uh I rewatched one of actually, and just like that, when you guys are playing tennis together. 00:40:08 Speaker 1: I worked so hard on that tennis. I don't know how to play tennis. I had to learn. 00:40:12 Speaker 2: Oh my God. 00:40:13 Speaker 3: It was very, very funny. 00:40:15 Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you. 00:40:17 Speaker 2: We had a stunt woman who I should know her name off the top of my head. And I can't remember it right now, but She's been with us a while on and off. And she said to me, we had a stand in for me, like a stunt double, but the hair didn't match. And Michael Patrick was like, no, that hair is not good enough. It's not going to work. So Evan's stunt double was in and I was having to do me. And she kept saying to me, like. 00:40:39 Speaker 1: Ram into him, like ram into him so hard. And I was like, okay. Oh, I do have to work tomorrow, you know. 00:40:46 Speaker 2: And after a while, I was like, okay, can we stop with the ramming? 00:40:51 Speaker 1: Like, I feel like we got it. You know what I mean? Like, she wanted me to really like, like a football player. But it was fun. And that was a crazy day. I'm sure you will relate. We had. 00:41:04 Speaker 2: a lot of trouble getting a tennis place that Michael felt was beautiful enough, interesting enough to film in. Apparently there is a place in Penn Station. 00:41:14 Speaker 1: No, sorry. No,

Grand Central, where you can play tennis. Did you know this? 00:41:19 Speaker 3: I had no idea. And that's where it was? 00:41:21 Speaker 2: No, we couldn't get it. We couldn't get it. That's how posh this place is. 00:41:25 Speaker 1: They were like, no. We cannot bump whoever it is. I mean, who? 00:41:30 Speaker 2: It's some incredibly rarefied group of people who can play tennis in Grand Central. 00:41:36 Speaker 3: In Grand Central? 00:41:37 Speaker 1: Exactly. That's what Michael Patrick wanted. We couldn't get it. It was a lot of drama. 00:41:41 Speaker 2: And then eventually, and we had been pushing it, pushing it, pushing it, trying to find... a place in the city that was beautiful enough to play tennis. So it had gotten down the road to like the last week of production, you know, how that happens. And we found a place on like the west side in the 60s. I want to say, you know that weird stretch where there's just like tall buildings built right on the river? 00:42:02 Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. What you're talking is sort of the level of where Lincoln Center is, but farther west. 00:42:07 Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. It was over there. 00:42:09 Speaker 2: And it's kind of like a, you know, like a community building with a gym and whatever, but it's beautiful. 00:42:15 Speaker 1: That's where we were. But we had, Michael Patrick had to direct it. 00:42:19 Speaker 2: And this, it was not his episode because whoever the director was had had to leave, you know, because they were done, you know, except for the scene. 00:42:28 Speaker 3: Oh, and he had to do the tennis sequence. 00:42:29 Speaker 1: The whole sequence, right. 00:42:31 Speaker 2: And we had storyboards, you know, we had all kinds of stuff. And then another unit was going on doing the final two episodes. And we were like a splinter unit, I guess. And we had, I think, a 17-hour day. And we got it done, which was a miracle, right, to get that whole sequence and the, you know, walking, talking and all the things around it. And then the next day I went and someone on the crew said, said to me like, I can't believe you guys did a 17 hour day. 00:43:00 Speaker 1: And I was like, well, we had to get, we had to get it done. 00:43:02 Speaker 3: What do you mean? 00:43:03 Speaker 1: Like, what am I going to do? Not, not do it. You know? And they were, it was just so interesting. I was like, back in the day, we only. 00:43:09 Speaker 3: Did 17 hour days. Oh, absolutely. 00:43:12 Speaker 1: We would. 00:43:13 Speaker 3: Oh yes. We, yeah. Three o'clock in the morning. 00:43:16 Speaker 1: Big time. 00:43:17 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:43:18 Speaker 1: Big time. I know it's such an interesting thing. 00:43:20 Speaker 2: I do feel like You know, because we're not, as an industry, making as many things now, you know? 00:43:27 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a contraction. 00:43:29 Speaker 3: Right? 00:43:30 Speaker 1: The contraction. You feel it. You really feel it. 00:43:34 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:43:35 Speaker 3: And it makes it harder for all these kids starting out, too. I go like, it's just not, you know. Hopefully there'll be a shift. Hopefully there'll be a shift. 00:43:42 Speaker 1: I feel like it's coming. I feel like it's coming. 00:43:44 Speaker 3: I do. I think so. I think people always want stories. You know, they always want stories. 00:43:49 Speaker 1: We need stories. 00:43:52 Speaker 3: Right. Exactly. 00:43:52 Speaker 2: Right. 00:43:53 Speaker 3: And we make sense of everything. 00:43:54 Speaker 1: Exactly. And I want to watch your show. When do you film? Are you filming again? 00:43:59 Speaker 3: You have to. Yes. It's called American Classic. It's on MGM Plus. It's Kevin Kline and myself and Laura Linney. 00:44:06 Speaker 1: Wow. 00:44:07 Speaker 3: And Jessica Hecht and Len Carey. Amazing. And Tony Shalhoub and Aaron Tveit. 00:44:13 Speaker 2: Steve Scamilla. Incredible. No way. 00:44:14 Speaker 3: It's just all these fabulous actors. Wow. Yeah. And a fabulous actress, Nell Verlac, young actress. She's amazing. 00:44:22 Speaker 1: And you developed this show? 00:44:25 Speaker 3: Yes. It was an idea that my wife had years ago. And we sort of slowly been pushing it up the hill. And people kept on saying yes. And we ended up making this beautiful show we're very proud of. And it's a celebration of family and community and the importance of storytelling. So it takes place in a community theater. 00:44:47 Speaker 1: Amazing. 00:44:48 Speaker 3: That's where it takes place, but it's about a larger theme. 00:44:54 Speaker 1: I can't wait. It sounds fantastic. I'm so excited. 00:44:58 Speaker 3: As an actor, I bet you'll really particularly appreciate it. 00:45:02 Speaker 1: I'm sure I will. Congratulations. It's really hard to make something. 00:45:06 Speaker 3: It's almost impossible, so it's very nice when it comes out there. 00:45:12 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 00:45:13 Speaker 1: Okay, I have one last question for you, John. 00:45:15 Speaker 3: Please. 00:45:15 Speaker 2: Yes. 00:45:16 Speaker 1: Are you a Charlotte? 00:45:21 Speaker 3: Well, am I a Charlotte? You know, why didn't I think that you would? 00:45:27 Speaker 1: I don't know why you didn't. 00:45:30 Speaker 3: Why would I possibly let this happen? Well, now, here's a question. I'm going to answer the question first with a question. Okay. When you say, are you a Charlotte? When I hear that, I think of it as like they know what they want. 00:45:49 Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. 00:45:50 Speaker 3: And I always feel like the question is more important or is more interesting to me than the answer. So I would say I'm not a Charlotte because I want to know the question, but I don't know the answer. 00:46:06 Speaker 2: Right. 00:46:07 Speaker 1: That's kind of like a Carrie thing, what you're saying, right? 00:46:11 Speaker 3: Like the inquisitive thing. So maybe I'm more of a Carrie. 00:46:16 Speaker 1: Cool. 00:46:16 Speaker 2: Well, there's a lot of other qualities too, though, but I like that. 00:46:19 Speaker 1: I like that answer. So for instance, are you hopeful in general? 00:46:26 Speaker 3: I think in general, I'm hopeful. 00:46:28 Speaker 1: I would say yes. So that's good. 00:46:30 Speaker 3: I think, I think yes. 00:46:32 Speaker 1: Are you a cheerleader for your friends? 00:46:34 Speaker 2: Yes. 100%. 00:46:37 Speaker 3: Yes. 00:46:39 Speaker 2: 100%. 00:46:39 Speaker 3: See, see. 00:46:40 Speaker 1: Charlotte qualities. 00:46:41 Speaker 3: Yes, yes. Okay. 00:46:42 Speaker 1: Do you like white flowers? 00:46:44 Speaker 3: Random. 00:46:46 Speaker 1: White flowers? She's very particular about her flowers, yes. 00:46:50 Speaker 3: I actually am a big fan of white, yes. 00:46:53 Speaker 1: All right. Amazing. You're checking the boxes, John. 00:46:56 Speaker 3: Oh, my God. Kristen, I am discovering that I'm a Charlotte. I love it. 00:47:01 Speaker 1: I love it. 00:47:02 Speaker 2: See, I kind of would think you would be a Charlotte just based on your, like the way that you are in the world, because you're like such a good guy, you know, like you're very much like, I'm a, I'm a, I'm like a support. I'm like a, like your vibe is very supportive and Like inquisitive, like team player, like, you know what I'm saying? 00:47:24 Speaker 1: You're not like an ego type actor. I don't mean to put us down, but you know what I'm saying? There are those people. 00:47:30 Speaker 3: Oh, I know what you're saying. 00:47:31 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:47:32 Speaker 3: Well, shoot. I'm a Charlotte. 00:47:35 Speaker 1: All right. You could be Charlotte Carey. 00:47:38 Speaker 2: That's what I am. Charlotte Carey or Carrie Charlotte, whatever. 00:47:42 Speaker 1: But you can be whoever you want to be. I don't mean to impose Charlotte on you. 00:47:46 Speaker 3: Except just not Joe Penney. 00:47:48 Speaker 1: No, definitely no. 00:47:51 Speaker 2: But you know what? 00:47:51 Speaker 1: I think we've righted that wrong over time. 00:47:53 Speaker 3: There we go. Yes. 00:47:55 Speaker 1: Yes, indeed. 00:47:56 Speaker 2: Yes, indeed. 00:47:56 Speaker 1: You're a joy. Thank you for joining us. 00:47:59 Speaker 3: Well, thank you, Kristen. It's nice to be here. Thanks for having me. 00:48:03 Speaker 1: It's my pleasure. It's my pleasure. 00:48:05 Speaker 2: I love to have the good actors on and we'll just have to find a way to work together in the future. 00:48:10 Speaker 3: I'm all for that. That sounds like a good plan. 00:48:13 Speaker 1: Me too. Enjoy New York. 00:48:16 Speaker 3: Thank you. Thank you. 00:48:17 Speaker 2: All right. 00:48:17 Speaker 1: Have a great day. Thank you so much. 00:48:20 Speaker 3: You too, Kristen. Thank you.