Jakson Ep 25 | Unlocking Creativity with Victoria Montgomery täydellinen litterointi

time and energy to these things that like are kind of serving me, but not really. 00:04:39.279 --> 00:04:40.480 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:48.879 You mentioned creativity, and I'm curious, is that like a theme or something that you've honored for a long time in your life? 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:51.279 It's something that that's always been important to me. 00:04:51.439 --> 00:04:53.920 Like many little kids, I grew up wanting to be an artist. 00:04:54.079 --> 00:04:55.040 I would draw a lot. 00:04:55.199 --> 00:05:11.279 It was something that was supported and nurtured to a degree, but of course, like many people, you know, your parents tell you that you're not gonna make any money if you be an artist, which is also I feel like pretty ironic because now we're in such a different place with art as a society and like the power of social media. 00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:16.240 So something that kind of got put on the back burner around the time I was 10-11. 00:05:16.399 --> 00:05:21.839 And I would say when I was in college, I started playing in makeup and that became my new like creative outlet. 00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:23.920 And I wouldn't like say it was artistic at that time. 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:24.959 I'm like, but creative. 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:29.360 And that was my way of like you know, filling that need. 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:31.839 But then I would like look at things that other people could do. 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:40.160 And even my younger sister, only in the time of the pandemic, she started getting like really creative and artistic with these paintings and these drawings. 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:47.519 And she like she's amazing, and so and she did that in such a small amount of time that and she and she would just say, like, I just took the time to do it. 00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:51.360 And that made me realize that like I'm just not making this a priority. 00:05:52.240 --> 00:05:57.920 And again, like that was again in 2020, and like that's still a conversation that's kind of like been going on. 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:02.720 And I would even like buy myself paint, acrylic paint, the paint brushes, the canvas. 00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:10.160 But I really had a goal like once a month, and like again, some months I would, or maybe like the first couple months I would, but then it would like really fall off. 00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:18.160 And I I again going back to like you know, what led into that shadow work course, like I've been wanting to do this, it's been important to me. 00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:20.319 I used to do it, but I'm not sticking with it. 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:24.319 And I and again, that's just not like me to not adhere to something that I say that I value. 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:32.319 I love the honesty of investigating that because what you're talking about, it's like it's a value. 00:06:32.480 --> 00:06:36.800 And I think a lot of the time people can have like aspirational values. 00:06:36.959 --> 00:06:44.560 They say that they care about something, and then when it comes to like the day-to-day decisions of whether they make space for it, they don't. 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:53.519 And it's very rare that people investigate it, they're like, wait a minute, I said last year I want to do this thing, I didn't do this thing, now I'm gonna do this thing. 00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:55.839 It takes a lot of courage to confront that. 00:06:56.079 --> 00:06:57.759 Absolutely, it it does. 00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:01.120 And I think I was an only child for a long time. 00:07:01.279 --> 00:07:06.639 I'm seven years older than my next sister, and I'm nine years older than the sister that I'm talking about. 00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:07.120 Wow. 00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:15.519 Yeah, so I spent a lot of time being an only child, and even after having siblings, like they, you know, they were so much younger than me that like they weren't really like a true connection. 00:07:16.240 --> 00:07:20.800 And even the one that's seven years younger than me, too, she's also very, a very talented artist. 00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:25.040 So it's kind of like these these babies then coming here is still in my dream. 00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:31.759 But really, I just wasn't doing what I needed to do, and I and I wasn't understanding why. 00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:43.600 But I think because I spent so much time as an only child, I was used to kind of like going within and you know, maybe, maybe I, you know, reach out to my parents for like a bit for connection, maybe they kind of understand what I mean and and entertain it with me. 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:45.439 Maybe they're too busy and and they can't. 00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:50.879 So I was I grew up grooming myself really to to go deeper, to ask more questions. 00:07:50.959 --> 00:07:57.759 And you can probably relate with the time that we grew up, where if like you had a question, you're always told to go like look it up. 00:07:57.839 --> 00:08:01.759 And that there was no Google, you had to go get the encyclopedia. 00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:12.800 So being you know, groomed in that way as a child too is just kind of like okay, and especially now with it being so easy with the internet at the tips of our fingers, it's like okay, let's let's investigate, let's see what's going on. 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:15.279 What what else may be happening here? 00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:17.519 Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. 00:08:17.759 --> 00:08:27.920 You talked a little bit about how you had gotten away in that that year, away from the dream of pursuing creativity and art. 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:32.240 And I'm curious what ha what happened in that year? 00:08:32.399 --> 00:08:34.960 Was it just you went into work? 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:36.639 Did something happen at work? 00:08:36.879 --> 00:08:42.559 Yeah, so I got a new job, and it was a job that I really liked, really wanted, really valued. 00:08:42.799 --> 00:08:57.840 And I think because I both

enjoyed and valued the job so much, and you know, of course, we get into certain mindsets about like not necessarily proving our work, but proving value, perhaps, along those lines. 00:08:58.159 --> 00:09:03.840 And there was work that needed to be done, but it it I felt very confidently that it could be done. 00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:11.679 I think I spent a lot of time trying to establish myself and kind of help my function become more well developed. 00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:26.399 But in my dedication to my own definition of excellence and in, you know, the the skills and gifts that I brought to the role, I think that that ends up being, I hesitate to use the word, but I think it is the right word, threatening to some people who I work closely with. 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:34.399 And so when I would have ideas or like, you know, try to move things forward, it would be met with avoidance for a while. 00:09:34.559 --> 00:09:43.039 And then I would have to spend time trying to understand and unpack like what is this avoidance about, especially if like we're all feeling the burden of the work and I'm coming with the solution. 00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:45.039 So I internalized that first. 00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:49.759 Like, okay, if their need is here, we all feel it, and I'm coming with the solution. 00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:53.360 What's in the solution, as far as I can see, fits and works. 00:09:53.519 --> 00:09:55.279 Why are we not moving forward with it? 00:09:55.519 --> 00:09:58.000 And of course, I have like speculation about that. 00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:01.120 I think, and I and I do want to be empathetic and show some grace here too. 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:18.080 I think it can be hard to be a female leader, to be responsible for making decisions and it feels like all eyes are on you, or you know, even if somebody else has this idea and it otherwise seems fit, like if it goes wrong, I'm the person that ultimately buries or carries the cross for that. 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:22.879 So I think it's there's some some tricky emotional realities that are that are valid there. 00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:28.960 But again, I think I was getting too caught up in that beyond what was fair or appropriate for me. 00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:30.799 Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:36.559 Did you have a time in that year that you were like, this is not working for me? 00:10:36.720 --> 00:10:39.200 Corporate is not where it's at anymore. 00:10:40.399 --> 00:10:47.840 Shortly after that, I think around the time that my birthday hit, I think maybe like actually it was April 14th. 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:51.200 I had been my birthday's April 25th. 00:10:51.279 --> 00:10:52.399 This is April 14th. 00:10:52.879 --> 00:10:53.360 Taurus. 00:10:53.679 --> 00:10:55.039 Yes, I am a Taurus. 00:10:55.519 --> 00:10:55.759 Okay. 00:10:56.639 --> 00:10:58.559 I didn't you know just journaling and praying. 00:10:58.720 --> 00:11:01.360 It was on a Sunday morning, and I

just was like feeling stuck. 00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:08.720 I think at this point I kind of come to like a reckoning that like this really isn't working, but I wasn't really ready to give myself permission to leave. 00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:10.879 I'm just like, okay, like how can I make this work? 00:11:11.039 --> 00:11:12.879 Like what else can I try? 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:22.159 And on April 14th, I prayed and journaled, you know, ahead of you know, my church time, and I heard guess loud and clear, like, you need to quit, like, you need to leave the road. 00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:29.600 I was like, in this economy, and it's so funny because later on I was telling my mom about this, she's like, You questioned God? 00:11:29.759 --> 00:11:31.279 I'm like, Yes, I did. 00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:34.960 He knows that that was gonna sound crazy, crazy to me. 00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:38.639 And then I turned on this was a bedside Baptist day for me. 00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:47.759 So I turned on church, and the the word that day was about having the faith, like you do need to trust God to be able to take a leap without knowing what's coming next. 00:11:47.840 --> 00:11:50.799 And that's a part of being able to trust and walk on that path. 00:11:51.039 --> 00:11:55.919 And the timing of it was just um very striking to me. 00:11:56.159 --> 00:12:03.840 And again, I didn't end up leaving until nearly six months later because at that point it's like, okay, well, I felt this way, I've gotten kind of like this confirmation. 00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:05.360 Don't let me do it too soon. 00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:07.440 Order my steps, order my work. 00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:12.240 You wanted a plan, it sounds like the economy is crazy. 00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:17.120 This I'm not once a week having something lined up, which is what ended up happening. 00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:26.879 But yeah, that was the exact moment where I was like, yeah, but I think before then, the fact that I was, I felt like when I went home, I felt like a stick. 00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:34.960 Have you ever seen those memes where like it's like the stick figure and like the head is huge with like a swirl all of yes? 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:37.600 That's how I felt. 00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:47.440 And I somewhere in between like feeling that way and trying to like advocate and ask for help and that it kind of falling on deaf ears. 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:56.320 That's those were some like the other symptoms that okay, I'm feeling this way, I'm vocalizing it, I'm not being met with the support that I need for this to be different. 00:12:56.480 --> 00:12:59.279 Like that at that point, it's kind of tough on options. 00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:05.759 Yeah, it's and it sounds like from what you're talking about, it started almost as like a spark, uh a knowing. 00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:12.799 And then you knew, but then there was almost like this phase of still trying to make it work. 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:22.639 Or like what I noticed with clients is like they want to know that they did all that they could within their control before they're ready to hang it up and like transition. 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:31.679 And it sounds like maybe you had a few months after that, the first knowing that you were like, No, I'm gonna try, we're gonna see, and then it just didn't work anymore. 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:44.320 Yeah, and another point that ended up being ironic but telling was at the end of 2024, I had started through my like funded through my employer a coaching engagement, which I loved and enjoyed. 00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:46.879 So I got the paperwork rolling at the end of 2024. 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:58.399 We got started at the start of 2025, and I had like my set of like my list of goals and things I wanted to focus on that were genuinely just like kind of what I wanted to focus on to get me to like, you know, my next level. 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:08.879 But I noticed and increasingly that every time we would meet, we couldn't really get to everything on the list because I really needed help navigating what I was experiencing in real time. 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:11.039 That was a pretty big tell for me. 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:12.159 That makes sense. 00:14:12.399 --> 00:14:15.440 Was entrepreneurship always in the cards for you? 00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:20.559 How did you go from corporate, leaving corporate to then jumping into this new thing? 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:24.080 You know, I am a tourist, I like stability, I like security. 00:14:25.519 --> 00:14:28.159 I like knowing that the check is coming every two weeks. 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:28.720 Yeah. 00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:29.919 What did we say? 00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:34.480 I remember we were on a call, you and me, and you were like, I'm not meant to live an uncomfortable life. 00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:36.639 I was like, Yeah, me too. 00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:56.639 Yes, and so people talk about like how difficult and rewarding, but difficult entrepreneurship can be, and how you know, it sometimes gets a little bit glamorized or people are dismissive about the true benefits and the cost and weight and value of the benefits that you do get from working at traditional nine to five. 00:14:56.799 --> 00:15:05.440 So though I did want to start something on my own on the side, it I was never planning to like jump head uh head and feet first. 00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:06.720 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:13.600 An entrepreneurial endeavor, but you know, sometimes life and God have other plans and you just gotta uh buckle up for the ride. 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:14.399 Yeah, yeah. 00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:15.759 No, I relate to that. 00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:19.519 That's how I started, learned mindfully was a few years ago. 00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:24.080 I got laid off from a coaching job and I was like, screw this, I still want to do it. 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:26.080 And that's how it was founded. 00:15:26.399 -->

00:15:39.440 I think it's interesting when you jump in like that because the group program with Vivian was the first time that I really like slowed down and I was like, wait, what's the big vision? 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:43.360 Because I had just gone into like reactive mode with the business. 00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:47.840 And so like I actually took the time to slow down of like, what's the big vision? 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:54.320 Like, what's my decades-long plan for this business versus just experimenting all the time. 00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:59.840 And so I'm curious, you want to tell us a little bit about what your venture is? 00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:00.799 Yes. 00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:13.360 So I previously worked in nonprofit higher education, and through all of my roles, I always coaching and and mentoring, but really coaching was also always a part of the work. 00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:28.799 And even in my role in talent acquisition as a recruiter, I really appreciated and enjoyed the process of like building trust and making my hiring managers feel understood and making them connect to the idea that like you're in the right hands, we can get what's needed done. 00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:33.919 And when that trust was established, then they would come to me and ask for other questions or support. 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:43.759 They're gonna help them be successful in how they navigate the process, even like with internal candidates, like having like make perhaps difficult conversations, supportive conversations. 00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:49.759 You know, when you know, launching a coaching business or a business, I want to like lean into my gifts. 00:16:49.919 --> 00:17:04.720 And so with my coaching business, I'm here to support people who are really looking to they they realize that they've outgrown something and how they navigate, something and how they operate, they navigate their their boundaries, something is just like not really fitting or working anymore. 00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:19.039 And I want to help them because a lot of times people do actually know what it is, but I want to help them figure out their style and language for kind of putting things back where they go and have in their life feel good again. 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:26.480 Because again, as we kind of talked about, I know what it's like to have something be out of whack or taking energy inappropriately. 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:34.079 And it takes a lot of effort and energy to to take that inventory and then start like that's overwhelming as it is. 00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:38.160 But then you start making steps to get things back where they go. 00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:46.640 And so I want people to be able to feel like they can envision and embody their big picture view of success. 00:17:46.880 --> 00:18:03.039 I'm meeting people at that place where something isn't fitting anymore, it's not working for them, like a change either has been made and they're they're struggling to catch up to it, which happens, or they need to make a change so that things can be in flow. 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:06.720 Yeah, they know something's wrong, something's not working for them. 00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:07.200 Yeah. 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:17.279 It's interesting because we talked a little bit about it with your own journey, but what I find is that we as humans try so much to control, like something's not working. 00:18:17.359 --> 00:18:22.160 And so we try to usually overpower and fix it, like, oh, I can make it work. 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:25.119 I can just give more energy and all that. 00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:33.920 And it's like, no, sometimes it's really just it's just discernment and walking away or something just like like you fix it by letting go. 00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:36.799 Observe what happens first and figure out what we want to do next. 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:38.079 Yes, exactly. 00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:39.039 Exactly. 00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:41.359 I'm curious with the folks that you work with. 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:43.599 Is there a particular like audience? 00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:46.319 Are you working with leaders, individual contributors? 00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:51.279 Yeah, so people who view themselves as leaders regardless of their title or status. 00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:58.559 And so I actually, one of my first clients has actually been a man, and that's was not necessarily on my bingo card, but it has worked out well. 00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:00.559 And so I'm I'm happy. 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:09.359 I had this in mind for women and specifically women of color, just because the things that we navigate can just feel a little bit more tricky or have a little bit more weight to them. 00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:19.119 Some people are individual contributors, some people are in leadership and either wanting to like grow on their leadership or they're wanting to fine-tune their leadership practices. 00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:23.119 And like, I don't I haven't put in any of my copy or anything like that yet. 00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:28.240 I haven't figured out like a way to say this without it turning people off, perhaps. 00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:34.799 But I do have a conviction about like insecure leadership kind of corrupting credibility. 00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:38.400 And of course, if you're gonna be a leader, you need to maintain your credibility. 00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:40.240 That's like one of the most important things. 00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:44.720 So people are at various stages, but everybody does see themselves as a leader. 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:45.759 Yep, yep, yep. 00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:48.880 Can you talk more about the insecure leadership and credibility? 00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:49.680 I'm curious. 00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:52.000 I can tell there's a lot of meat there. 00:19:53.359 --> 00:20:03.440 Is and so, and I and I do want to be transparent just because I I think it is easy to kind of be like on a high horse once

you've like you've figured out a couple of things or once you've been on the opposite side of a couple things. 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:09.279 But, you know, starting out when I was like 26, 25, 26, I was working in higher education. 00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:13.440 I had a staff, and really my first two staffs, they could not stand me. 00:20:13.599 --> 00:20:14.640 I think that's important to say. 00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:17.279 Like, I I've actually gained this experience. 00:20:17.359 --> 00:20:22.240 Like I've studied it from the textbook, and I've also like learned firsthand. 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:30.319 And a lot of it is just kind of understanding how to communicate when there is a power difference, and a lot of it is about accountability too. 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:44.319 And I I was like, for me, there were some situations as life presents, there were some elements of the situation that really didn't have a lot to do with me or that were out of my control, but there were some that were in within my control and within my sphere of influence. 00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:55.440 And I had to learn to like really slow down and be more intentional with how I spoke and how I made people feel in moments that could be perceived as vulnerable. 00:20:55.599 --> 00:21:00.559 So I think one that stands out was like in my maybe my first or second start of the year training. 00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:15.519 And again, I was working in higher education, and one of the like window activities that we did, like was a reflection that we did as a group, and people like one of the quite I was a facilitator actually, and I asked, it was like a step forward to raise your hand type of a thing, like if you learned something new. 00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:17.920 And I didn't acknowledge that I learned something new. 00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:28.000 And I think it was probably a little bit of I don't want to say imposter syndrome, but like perhaps like of like I'm the leader, I'm the expert, I'm teaching you. 00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:38.799 And like from a content standpoint, I did know those things, but I didn't acknowledge, and maybe I should have even specified in the question that like, you know, I learned a lot about the staff though, but I didn't acknowledge it at all. 00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:41.839 And I think that that really turned people off early on. 00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:56.480 So, like really learning and leaning into like the emotional intelligence, again, especially when there's that power difference, because I'm sure that was like really annoying for those staff and the student leaders that were supposed to be or expected to look up to me. 00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:58.640 And I can't acknowledge that I learned something new. 00:21:58.720 --> 00:21:59.759 And I think like ego. 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:07.759 Can get in the way a lot when leaders are are trying and figuring it out or just wanting to feel good about themselves, whether they're trying to or not. 00:22:08.160 -->

00:22:08.480 Yeah. 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:08.880 Yeah. 00:22:09.519 --> 00:22:14.480 And so just remembering that like you, it's hard to be a leader if there's no one else around. 00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:17.440 Like you can't be the only person or only perspective in the room. 00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:22.160 And so again, apologizing or being able to take accountability is big. 00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:26.160 I know that that's one that I felt I felt frustrated with with other people in my career. 00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:30.960 It's like, if you're not safe to say that you made a mistake, it just it just doesn't set a good tone. 00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:44.160 And then even if I'm like the more subordinate person, if I'm able to do that or say, like, hey, I'm I'm sorry about that, or you know, be or if I'm bringing it to your attention before anything bad happens, like, hey, before anything happens with this, I made this misstep. 00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:45.680 Here's what I'm doing about it. 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:46.880 What are your thoughts? 00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:52.319 And like that's appreciated, but you still can't like mirror it back when like you did make a mistake. 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:53.759 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:22:54.079 --> 00:23:00.960 One of the biggest the I always say like the biggest risk to so many businesses is ego. 00:23:01.279 --> 00:23:06.319 Because ego is what ego is what we're seeing on a daily basis on the news, on everything. 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:14.480 It's people not being able to admit that they're wrong, not being able to take accountability, humility, it's the lack of self-awareness. 00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:15.519 There's so much there. 00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:17.519 Completely agree with you. 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:28.160 And what I think is interesting through the thread throughout everything that you have said so far is it's like the self-awareness and empathy that you have. 00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:38.079 And just knowing that like you don't have all the answers, being able to verbalize that as a leader and say, like, I want to find out more. 00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:43.039 Yeah, I think curiosity is so powerful and it's such an underutilized tool. 00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:55.119 And I I want to be mindful, I do understand that like when when you're priced on a timeline, sometimes you don't have a lot of time to be curious, but even if like you can't be curious in the moment, I think it's still worth it to a circle back. 00:23:55.279 --> 00:24:00.640 In like this process, I've met with another woman who has a lot of experience as like a formal facilitator. 00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:09.839 And I was meeting with her, and we were just talking about like a lot of the things that come up in these corporate workspaces, especially like she's a lot of times coming in as an outsider. 00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:16.400 I've done a lot of like internal facilitation, but I'm preparing to to lean into doing still more coming in from outside.

00:24:16.640 --> 00:24:32.160 And we kind of talked about like when you can tell the difference in like how the functional organization operates when the leader is emotionally intelligent, which also should suggest that they've done their own self-work. 00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:50.880 And I don't think it was like it came up explicitly in the conversation, but we kind of danced around it and like later on I saw like a TikTok or something that talked about when you're so used to lying to yourself, which is a lot of times a space that we fall into when we are haven't for ourselves and our self-work, it becomes so natural to then kind of be lying to everybody else. 00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:56.640 And you can more or less tell when that's the vibe, at least in a leader, and hopefully not in the team. 00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:59.440 But of course, sometimes it is a little bit of a trickle-down effect. 00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:01.759 It's like performative leadership. 00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:02.400 Yeah. 00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:16.400 I was talking to someone earlier today, and we were saying, like, as a leader or as a coach or even as a therapist, you can't take people to the same level, the same depths that you have not been to yourself. 00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:16.960 Yeah. 00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:19.039 And so that's a really good insight. 00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:19.440 Yeah. 00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:19.839 Yeah. 00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:24.160 In some of your work, you talk about aligning effort versus force. 00:25:24.319 --> 00:25:30.079 And we talked a little bit about kind of control, but I'm wondering if you could tell me a little bit about what does that mean to you? 00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:30.559 Yeah. 00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:43.440 I one of the things that actually really attracted me to my last organization and gave me a lot of clarity in how I operate personally and professionally was the idea of values alignment and just how important that is. 00:25:43.599 --> 00:26:08.400 And even, you know, as if you have friends uh or other relationships that you've carried with you for like a while and at a certain point, or the certain things that you tend to like have that friction around or the things that you pop pets around, before I would get like upset and maybe make it a and it is kind of personal, but like more personal, maybe what it needed to be, versus just like like zooming out and remembering we just have different values on this topic. 00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:13.759 And that would just end up being like a really healthy reframe for me to navigate relationships. 00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:28.400 But also, again, if I'm like scoping out a new opportunity or even how to have a conversation, uh, like let's say, like within context of my last roller opportunity, how can I reach across the table on the common ground of our values? 00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:32.079 Like, we both value getting the work done, we value our reputation. 00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:34.880 We want we want to be seen as the subject matter experts. 00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:44.319 Like, how can we leverage those points of connection around like what we both genuinely value or what genuinely matters to us in these moments? 00:26:44.640 --> 00:27:02.480 And I think where I was getting lost at to some degree is like sometimes even that you know that there are those values-aligned topics, if you're or if I was spending too much time just kind of like not paying attention to like where the misalignment really was. 00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:15.519 Now I'm like trying to force something that it really is never going to be successful or kind of come together or congeal in the way that it needs to for this to be successful because the misalignment is actually not being addressed. 00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:20.240 There's no movement around the the parts that actually do not align. 00:27:20.480 --> 00:27:20.960 Yeah, yeah. 00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:21.680 Absolutely. 00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:22.559 Absolutely. 00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:37.920 I think it's such powerful discernment to be able to one identify where you have values alignment within an organization or to a role or whatever it might be in a relationship, and then also when it's not there too. 00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:43.039 And then what is the impact of that energetically, somatically? 00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:48.880 Because usually if there's not an if there's a misalignment, it's usually going to manifest in some way. 00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:55.920 It's usually gonna be energetically or you're burnt, like a lot of burnout happens that way, and it just plays, it becomes heavy. 00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:56.640 It does. 00:27:56.799 --> 00:28:07.119 And I'm I'm glad you even brought up somatically because in the 2025, I like and like and of course I'm pretty sure it was a function of the misalignment that was there. 00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:13.599 I did start having like a lot more somatic and physical symptoms, and you missed a feeling of like heaviness. 00:28:13.680 --> 00:28:19.599 And in April, I would still say I just felt perpetually exhausted. 00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:25.359 And all year long for the most part, like unless I like my my friends made a plan with me, I would show up for the plan. 00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:26.480 But you know, it's winter. 00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:29.119 It's I've lived in Chicago, so it's it's pretty cold. 00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:37.759 And I would basically spend like from January through April, I was spending every weekend just sleeping, and I would still be so exhausted. 00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:52.880 And then by the time we got to April, I found myself in like what's called like a functional freeze where you're still like, yeah, like moving through your day as you normally would, but like you are completely emotionally numb and detached and just feeling extremely disconnected. 00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:58.160 And I looked up and I think two or three weeks had gone by and I was like,

whoa, we're we're at that date already. 00:28:58.240 --> 00:28:59.279 Like, how did that happen? 00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:03.519 And that was like a really, a really big tell, a really big red flag for me. 00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:04.960 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 00:29:05.200 --> 00:29:06.960 I love that you're using this language. 00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:18.640 I actually use it as well with my therapist because, well, I guess zooming back out, when we go through stress, we our nervous system will react in different ways. 00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:22.160 Usually what we see is fight, flight, freeze, fight. 00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:23.519 It's that really intense thing. 00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:24.799 We got a survival. 00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:30.640 Freeze is when a lot of or even fawning, it can we're just kind of numb. 00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:31.599 We numb out. 00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:36.400 Maybe that's like you're vegging out on the couch, you're existing, but you're not really connecting. 00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:41.920 One of the things that I've realized within my own pattern is functional freeze as well. 00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:47.519 And it was a few weeks ago, it was last year, the end of last year, I was talking to my therapist and I was like, I feel motivated again. 00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:50.319 Like, oh my God, I need to do something with this energy. 00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:52.480 She's like, Yeah, like let's go. 00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:57.599 And I ended up applying to grad school, which I'm now starting at the end of this month. 00:29:57.839 --> 00:30:07.119 But I think it's like so it's being aware of like if your body is in that state, it's really paying attention to your nervous system. 00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:15.200 Like, do you notice a few days in a row that you're kind of lying on the couch, or maybe you're doing, maybe you're aggravated or like amped up for multiple days. 00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:18.000 And just asking yourself, like, hey, what's happening here? 00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:20.079 Like, is this a pattern that I'm in? 00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:24.799 What do I need right now in order to shift out of it? 00:30:25.119 --> 00:30:39.039 And usually with functional freeze is that we're feeling a lot and typically overwhelmed with the feeling or not letting ourselves process the feeling because we're not moving forward through the emotions. 00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:41.599 We're kind of like sitting in it, we're frozen in it. 00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:42.880 Yeah, absolutely. 00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:49.839 And I think for me, I'd started to feel like a lot of like fear and doubt. 00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:53.440 And I really couldn't place where it was coming from. 00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:55.200 That's just not like me. 00:30:55.279 --> 00:30:56.799 It's not like me to feel that way at work. 00:30:56.960 --> 00:31:03.039 Like it was just like I try to be a really like a stronger, coherent relationship with my personal power. 00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:11.119

And I think leading up to this point, because I was bringing stuff up and it really wasn't being attuned to in the way that I needed it to be. 00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:18.000 I it almost felt like I needed to start like finding or just being like, okay, or you know, just kind of like moving along or you know, not making peace. 00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:20.319 You know, I'm a black woman, not trying to be a troublemaker. 00:31:20.559 --> 00:31:26.640 And then also around this time, as you could probably already tell, I spent a little too much time on on TikTok on TikTok. 00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:29.279 This is also a clip from a podcast that I do watch too. 00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:42.720 I'm not sure if you watch or are familiar with the diary of a CEO, but um I forgot who the expert was, but basically they were talking about there's an experiment done where they had two groups of participants in one group, both of them used sweat. 00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:47.279 Like, so one of them, the people just like worked out and that's how they got sweat on their clothes. 00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:49.759 And then the other group did skydiving. 00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:51.920 And so they had sweat from like nerves. 00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:58.000 But when other participants smelled the clothes, the people who just smelled the workout sweaty clothes, they were fine. 00:31:58.079 --> 00:31:59.519 They didn't really like notice anything. 00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:04.640 But the people who smelled the fear-induced sweat, they became fearful. 00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:11.839 And it was kind of illustrating the conversation, and I'm assuming the study too, were illustrating that fear can be contagious. 00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:22.079 And I had all though I previously had not felt this way, I didn't know that people on my team or in my organization had felt a lot of anxiety and very fearful. 00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:30.720 And I again I can't exactly put my finger on like why that is, but I I remember even system, system, yes. 00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:32.880 I guess I can we can put our finger on why that is. 00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:35.759 Yes, yes, systemically, something was going on. 00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:36.240 Yes. 00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:37.119 Yes. 00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:44.000 And I remember talking to my therapist about it, and just and I even was like, I just feel like I I need to like shake this off. 00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:52.559 And he was like, It's so interesting that you even say that because he was reading this book called Awaken the Tiger Healing Trauma, which I also ordered the copy I can read it yet. 00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:55.519 But it talked about like trauma, like basically the animal kingdom. 00:32:55.599 --> 00:33:03.200 And I'm assuming it ties back to people too, but how animals like will literally like shake, shake it, discharge it. 00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:03.440 Yeah. 00:33:03.759 --> 00:33:16.319 And for me, my strategy at that time, while I'm still, you know, in this environment trying to navigate, is I at the start of the year, and I think by like by the summertime, I started to record it just because like if I need it, somebody else needs it. 00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:27.440 But I would just like go online on Pinterest or whatever else, Twitter, whatever, like affirming, like mindset, resetting quote, mantra, whatever the case, I would go find it and I would just like read over them. 00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:40.480 Or I'd go on Pinterest and I'd like, you know, have like images and boards that just like were really positive and really affirming, and sometimes results, again, sometimes just images, and I would just spend time at the end of every day, just kind of like focused on that. 00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:47.839 And that also helped me not get lost in the uh emotion of everything that I was feeling and and navigating. 00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:55.279 And at that time, I did kind of feel like torn in between like two realities, like I felt like a lot of pressure to shrink to fit the one I was in at work. 00:33:55.440 --> 00:34:03.279 I was using those, that little routine or ritual at the end of the day to kind of keep my mind and body focused on like, but self-care and having hope. 00:34:03.440 --> 00:34:03.680 Yeah. 00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:04.240 Yes. 00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:11.360 And moving forward and continuing to be empowered and comfortable to take up space and knowing that my ideas are good and you know, all of those things. 00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:13.440 Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. 00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:24.480 You are putting such powerful words to being in an environment that is no longer like suited for you, and how do you continue with hope and coping and everything? 00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:30.400 I'm curious, what does the future hold for you now that you've stepped away from that space? 00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:32.559 That's a a big and beautiful question. 00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:34.800 Um, thank you for asking. 00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:38.000 And it it's a challenge to say just because of where I'm at. 00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:44.960 Like I do feel very grounded in myself, and I I know the action steps I'm I I'm taking and continuing to move towards. 00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:53.519 And while I'm still moving, I I trust that it the the reality around me will take shape, but I don't think it has done that just yet. 00:34:53.840 --> 00:35:03.119 So some of my big goals for this year are to so last year when I went to the the creative the shadow work course, I started writing on on Substack. 00:35:03.199 --> 00:35:05.599 And so I want to continue to write for myself privately. 00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:11.039 I do want to make a few pitches to public publications for this year. 00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:20.239 I would love to do some facilitating and like group coaching work, like in the corporate sphere, and of course, continue to grow with the individual clients as well. 00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:36.719 So again, I

just want to be able to help everybody move towards their most empowered big vision, uh big picture vision of their success versions of themselves, whether it's like, you know, teamwork focused, individual, and just you know, continue continue to fight the good fight. 00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:37.840 I love it. 00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:41.599 We started this conversation talking about creativity. 00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:48.239 And so I'm curious, as we're in the new year, are there any creative practices that you're embracing this year? 00:35:48.559 --> 00:35:49.679 That's such a good question. 00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:52.320 Cause I and you just challenged me to be more specific. 00:35:52.480 --> 00:36:01.440 So one of the things I appreciate about starting this year is I do we'll see if I'm right or wrong, but I feel like I'm on my marks from where I was last year. 00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:10.000 My resolutions, if you will, are about just continuing and making more structures to continue and deepen the work that I'm already been doing. 00:36:10.239 --> 00:36:11.760 So it is important for me. 00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:16.239 So like last year, one of my goals was to have weekly intentional fun. 00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:19.039 And this year it's like bi weekly. 00:36:19.119 --> 00:36:20.639 So I'm I'm up in the ante. 00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:24.000 And a lot of times my idea of fun has to do with something that's inspiring. 00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:27.679 So this this time I lean more into like inspirational fun. 00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:33.199 And so, like last week, I ended up going like wheel throwing, which is you know, like ceramics pottery. 00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:33.840 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:35.679 That was fun. 00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:37.360 One of my favorite things to do. 00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:40.239 There's a a studio in Chicago that does graffiti art. 00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:43.119 And so, like with like the spray paint, I I I love that. 00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:46.800 So, just again, just making sure that I'm keeping it top of mind. 00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:53.280 And you know, in certain months, like February, uh, for instance, I don't know about this year, but last year there were a lot of like Black History Month installations. 00:36:53.360 --> 00:37:01.599 So it can be things like that, but even still, like last year there was um an exhibit called Project the Black Planner, which I absolutely loved. 00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:03.199 And I bought the art book. 00:37:03.360 --> 00:37:08.320 And so though I can't always go see that exhibit, I at least have the book. 00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:20.079 Um I'm making it intentional to like invest more in those practices or those th the states of mind that hold meaning, hold impact, and are still like inspirational and get me thinking about being creative as well. 00:37:20.320 --> 00:37:24.079 Yeah, I love the examples that you gave too, because they're very tactile. 00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:31.679 So, like the wheel throwing, the pottery, all of those things are very tactile, even the art exhibits that you're talking about, which is important. 00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:38.880 All of those things, I feel like we kind of at least with 2020, we kind of disconnected from the physical. 00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:42.239 And so it's nice to see that you're embracing that in your practice. 00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:47.599 And it's so easy to get lost in like the responsibility of life as much as I can. 00:37:47.679 --> 00:37:58.079 I try to keep it a priority to do something very intentional, like you said, tactile or tangible, so that I'm just like getting the most out of out of that moment. 00:37:58.320 --> 00:37:59.360 Yeah, absolutely. 00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:00.400 Amazing. 00:38:00.639 --> 00:38:02.960 How can listeners stay in touch with you? 00:38:03.280 --> 00:38:06.880 Yeah, so by the time this airs, my website should be ready. 00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:09.679 So be voicenervemotion.com. 00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:15.119 And otherwise, people can find me on LinkedIn, Victoria Montgomery. 00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:18.079 Like if you do the little the URL. 00:38:18.320 --> 00:38:21.280 We'll we'll have the URL here in the show notes. 00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:25.519 And then I am on TikTok um under Toria Taught Me. 00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:26.320 Amazing. 00:38:26.480 --> 00:38:28.559 Thank you so much, Victoria, for joining us. 00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:29.599 Thank you, Barbara. 00:38:29.920 --> 00:38:32.159 I I loved uh being a guest on your podcast. 00:38:32.239 --> 00:38:33.679 I really appreciated it. 00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:38.719 Thanks for being here. 00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:44.239 If something in this episode landed with you, feel free to pass it along to someone who might need it too. 00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:47.519 You can leave a review, subscribe, or just keep tuning in. 00:38:47.679 --> 00:38:49.280 We're figuring it out together. 00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:54.960 And remember your story, your voice, your becoming, it all matters.