TRANSKRIPTIO 🔗
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You're listening to WGSN-DB, Going Solo Network, Singles Talk Radio Channel,
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where we take a lighthearted and candid approach to discussions
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on the journey of relationship loss, divorce, parenting, being single,
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relationships building, dating, and yes, sex. Join our listeners and
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begin living your best life.
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Hello and welcome to my show. The Awakening here on WGSN-DB,
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the Going Bold and Going Solo Network. The information and
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opinions expressed on this show are just that. The opinions
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of the individual speaking based on their individual personal experience.
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They are not intended to diagnose and do not constitute
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professional advice or recommendations. So you know the pain, the stress,
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the struggle that divorcing men and women go through? Well,
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there is a way to find peace, sanity, all while
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assisting your attorney through their legal process. This can save
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you thousands of dollars. My name is Tina Huggins. I'm
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your divorce coach specialist, divorce planning specialist, restorative family mediator,
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and conflictual co-parenting coach. And I am excited about today
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because my guest speaker is a retired lawyer with 25
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years of experience, Kim Corvin. Kim is a mediator, a
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divorce educator, and creator of the My Lawyer Free Divorce Coach.
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With a background in law, mediation, family dynamics, and farming,
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she empowers families to navigate divorce with dignity and love
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without relying on lawyers. Her pragmatic, caring voice guides clients
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through to remember the fact that they're the CEO of
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their own families, creating fair outcomes and lasting peace. So
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I'm excited for our talk today, Kim. So thank you
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for joining me.
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Well, thank you for having me, Tina. It's a real
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joy to be here.
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So as I was prepping for this today and getting
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everything down in the notes, I kind of reread everything.
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And so I find that it's interesting that you feel
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that they should be able to divorce without relying on
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their attorney or a attorney. So tell me why you
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feel that's an important one coming in from being a
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lawyer for so long.
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Exactly. It's not what one would expect from somebody with
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a legal background, right? Now, when divorce happens, was tossed
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into the courts in the 1850s. When you think of
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the population then, most people did not know how to read, right?
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There was no Wi-Fi. Women were still property. And there
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was much more deference given to experts. The reality about
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divorce is it didn't start out as a legal issue.
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Because government doesn't care about things you and I do
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in our homes that aren't causing trouble. They only get
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involved when something's happening and it's creating issues for society.
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So marriages were ending before government was involved, before there
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were any legal rules, before it went to court. And
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we're a much more educated population. And really, when you
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approach divorce as a life transition, because that's really what
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it is, you can solve a lot of the things yourselves. Now,
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what people often don't realize, like when you get married,
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when you got married, Tina, did you go and get
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your marriage license right away or what did you do first?
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Um, so the first time when I got married, um, we,
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because that was military, we had to do some military stuff.
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So it was actually done at the courthouse. Now, my
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second time we had, we had a ceremony and several
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years later, we actually did the legal end of that.
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And we went and did that at the courthouse, just
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signed the paperwork and gave it to them.
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Yeah. So, I mean, most people, they get engaged and
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they start planning the event. And they do the legality.
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Like you, like most people do the legality. You get
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your marriage license, like within the month before the service and,
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and yours, your example, right? You had the service, you
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had the fun ceremony, right? The gathering. And
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then years
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later you took care of the legalities. And if you've
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ever thought of experienced a death in the family, The
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first thing that happens, people do not apply for letters
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probate as soon as somebody dies. Often there's a wake
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or a service. There's an honoring of the human being.
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And then the legalities are dealt with. It's a much
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more humane, empowering way to do it. And I'm just saying,
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you know, use the same approach with divorce. You can,
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you've got, there's information out there beyond the My Lawyer
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Free Divorce course, right? So.
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Yeah, we, I don't know. I know when I'm working
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with my clients, I advise them right off the bat,
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not to bring on a lawyer in the very beginning part,
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because especially where my clients being in high conflict aspects. Anyways,
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the sooner you bring on a lawyer, which they're probably
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going to need, and they're going to need a litigative lawyer,
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that litigative lawyer can cause their own conflict unnecessarily. But
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if they're really good at their job, they jump when
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you have problems and it just costs lots of money
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and it causes so much conflict. So I always want
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my clients to wait. So when you and I met
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and I got to hear about your lawyer-free divorce course,
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I was like, wow, there's a concept that people don't
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think about at all because what's the first thing they
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do when they think of divorce? Rock right into any
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divorce lawyer's office. And oftentimes it's the wrong lawyer for
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their specific situation.
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Well, and it's their family and friends who are telling them,
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you need to protect your legal rights. And I agree
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with you. I have a similar approach with my mediation clients.
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And what's interesting, like Amanda Ripley wrote a book called
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High Conflict. And she says there's got to be four
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factors present for any kind of dispute to go high conflict.
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And three of them applied to divorce, right? And one
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is you have a community of people saying, right, who
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are supporting the conflict, supporting you in it. So that's
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family and friends going, hire a lawyer. That's the only
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way to do it. Hire a good litigator. The other
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one is there's a conflict preneur, which is someone who's
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making money off the conflict. Now, a lawyer would say, no, no, no,
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that's not my primary purpose. And it's not. But the
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lawyer's primary purpose is being a zealous advocate, protecting their
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client's legal rights. So by the nature of the lawyer's
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duty to the client, they are a conflict preneur, right?
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It isn't about what the client wants, right? it's about
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your legal rights. And then if one person in the
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conflict ends up feeling humiliated, you know, so the person
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who served with the divorce petition feels humiliation. And then,
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you know, we have the real high conflict. So yeah,
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it's easier if the lawyers stay out of it at
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the start.
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Yeah. I, I think one, they, they shouldn't be, be
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there in the beginning. I, I try to help my clients,
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you know, get organized for the attorney before we go
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to the attorney. And by then I usually know what
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type of lawyer they're going to need because my clients
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more than likely are going to need a litigative lawyer.
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And I, like when I said earlier about a good
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litigative lawyer jumps on things, I have one that I
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work with in Colorado and I am also working with
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the client. And so we, her and I, she's like,
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oh my gosh, if I say anything to him, he's
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right on top of it. And so, and it costs her,
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you know, several hundred dollars for him to follow through
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with that. So her and I take care of all
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of the sidelines. It's now doing the communication with the
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ex and with the ex's attorney, just making sure that
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her attorney knows this is what's taking place and, and
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keeping everything above
water that way. And then when it's time,
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he already has all the documentation and he's ready to jump.
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But now he's not jumping on one thing. He's jumping
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on a series of a few things so that it's
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not penny, nickel and diming the client to death.
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Well, I know like I've worked, well, my favorite lawyer
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to send people to, she retired. But, you know, something,
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else I encourage my clients to do if they're working
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with lawyers is, you know, have a folder where, you know,
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they gather things like emails and text messages and save
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them in one folder. So instead of sending each one
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separately to the lawyer, and being billed 0.10 of an hour,
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which could be $ 50. You send six and maybe get
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billed $ 50 instead of 300. And, you know, something I've
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noticed in my practice is that there are times when
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I've worked with real high conflict families, when they've been
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able to settle. And part of that is because they
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don't have lawyers involved, right and and the other part
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is that whole element of humiliation and playing the note
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you know like i believe that hurt people hurt people
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and we're all just doing the best we can yeah.
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And that that's where you know i i try to
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explain this to some people The person that asks for
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the divorce has already gone through a series of starting
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the healing process already because they've already thought about it.
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They've gone through the fears and the hurt and the anger.
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Whether they expressed any of that to their partner or not,
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they've been lulling that over and over in their head
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for maybe months or even years. Like in my case,
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it was years. And And so by the time we
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hand that summons for divorce over to our partner, they're
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just starting that. So now they're clear down here where
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we're clear up here on our dealing and grieving process.
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And they're just starting that. And once they start that,
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then we've got all of this stuff. And so I
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recommend that you don't even tell your mate that. in
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the very beginning process of getting things started, gather all
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your documentation, work with the coach, if that's who you're
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working with or work with somebody like yourself, that they
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have the checklist of everything they're going to need. And then,
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and then they're ready to file for the divorce. And
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then they have an exit plan in place, whether that
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means that they're going to exit the home or their
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partner's going to exit the home, or whether they know
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whether they can even live in the same home until this,
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is done. I have lots of attorneys that don't recommend
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that you leave the home. But in my case, with
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my clients, my clients are being abused.
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Well, like I, you know, and yeah, I'm a retired lawyer.
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And I remember about 25 years ago, talking to a
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police officer about a situation. And she said to me, Kim,
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You can always replace the house. You can't replace the person.
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And it was this light bulb moment that like the
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legal entitlement to the home doesn't disappear because you leave it.
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It continues to exist. And like over half of the
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women who are murdered, it happens in their homes. So
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I'm like you. It's like if your instincts are saying
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this is a dangerous place for you, like even if
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your head's saying, no, no, no, I'm okay. It's all
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going to be okay. But if you've got the sensations
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in your body, you can't be replaced. Leave.
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Right. And I think that's very important because it's, you know,
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I work with post separation abuse as well. And the
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most dangerous time in an abusive relationship is the moment
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you go to leave. And that's whether you are physically
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leaving saying you're going to leave or you wrote it
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down and your partner finds that. And that happened to me.
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I ended up with a broken hand. That that day
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I
had written it down because I was working with
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a therapist and I don't know where I had left
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my my notebook or whether he got my notebook out
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of my bag. But I had written down that that
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I was planning on this exit or whatever it was.
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And that night I ended up with a broken hand
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and separated ribs.
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And I mean, I've seen like I haven't experienced the
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physical violence myself, but of course, in my professional life. Oh, yes. And.
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It isn't in the woman's head. And it's it's interesting,
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like one of the one of the ways. that I
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help people is I have this little workbook. How do
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I tell my husband I want a divorce and keep
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the peace? And it's based on, like, I had a
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husband with a bad temper. And I knew, you know,
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he loves the kids. I love the kids. Kids are
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always going to love both of us. And I didn't
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he didn't find out we were separating by being served. Right.
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Because that would have just escalated everything in his family.
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There was money to fight. What I did was I actually,
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you know, in that limbo stage of should I stay?
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Should I go? I'd ask myself a series of questions. Right.
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You know, and the and one of them was, well,
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when did I first know that this wasn't going to work?
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You know, and it happened to be when he proposed
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because we were we were in Banff. And he proposes
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and I'm living 100 percent in my head then. And
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my body immediately screamed, say no.
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Right.
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Like everything in me screamed at me, say no. And
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I'm sitting there thinking, if I say no, he's going
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to cry. I don't know how to deal with it.
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If he's going to cry, that's just, oh, yuck. Oh,
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I can't cope with that. And then I thought of
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the eight hour drive home and I thought, that's going
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to be so awkward. So all of this in a
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split second. And then I'm like, well, how bad could
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it be?
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Right.
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So I didn't listen to my instincts and I said, yes. And,
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you know, another one of the questions is about what
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are your three best memories? And that one I use
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with my mediation clients. And, of course, what often happens,
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and they share them, is often the best memories are
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from the life before childhood. Because after the children come,
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you just kind of start, you've got no energy for
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this spouse, right? I'm sure you remember. It's like, no,
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all my attention was on the kids and my career.
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And same for, you know, my spouse, my husband. And
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it's really interesting when you have a discussion with that
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in mind. It's hard to blame the other person. And
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it shifts the dynamic, right? Because when all the good memories,
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and then it's been like 15 years, there's been no,
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all the good memories have involved the entire family. It
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helps people process. It helps that other person catch up.
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And of course, when you're not feeling humiliated and you're not,
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it lessens the fear and makes it easier for people
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to make better decisions.
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So I kind of want our viewers to know too,
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because there's a couple of things that you said here
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that fit for my late husband. Not all people, especially
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abused people, are women. men get abused by their spouse,
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their wives as well, if they're in a marriage that
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it's a man and a woman. And if they're both men,
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then obviously somebody can be abusive to the other person.
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And so in my late husband's life, you were talking
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about you knew that you didn't want to be in
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the relationship when he proposed. That was exactly what happened
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with my late husband is he had started seeing her
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and fell in love with her son, which he later adopted.
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And during that time frame, she got pregnant with his
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first son. And so he felt obligated. But he said
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00:19:31.980
the wedding was disastrous, was horrible. He hated it. And
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he wanted to jump off the ship. For their honeymoon.
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He says he could never do anything right. He never
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could do anything right from the moment he asked her
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to get married. Everything went downhill from there. So men
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can experience the same stuff as well.
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Yeah. And why I phrase it, I totally agree. Why
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I phrase it as how to tell my husband I
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want a divorce is because most divorces, they're initiated by
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the wife. They're the people doing the doom scrolling at
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3 a.m. So... But it's, I mean, every year there's
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at least two men who I end up working with,
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you know, as a mediator or as a divorce strategist.
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But it's a really abusive relationship.
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And the sad part, you know, some of the, statistics
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out there, they say that women are one in every
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three that get abused. But for men, it's one in
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every four. And less men report that. Now, we're not
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necessarily talking about physical abuse. But in most cases, when
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they're reported, it is physical abuse. My father never reported his,
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but he was shot at several times. And then when
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I picked him up out of the hospital, the last
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time she drove over him And my late husband, his
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ex bit him so bad, it made his shirt extremely bloody.
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And so that's how he went in the next day
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is he went in to report that. And then he
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started the process and got her out of the home.
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But then he got afraid. And this is kind of
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what I did. is I ended up afraid and I
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ended up back in the home and that specific day
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I attempted suicide. So those are kind of things that happen.
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We get fearful of their attacks, verbal attacks from a distance,
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even though there was a restraining order in place. And
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we just feel like, oh my gosh, if I don't
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bring them back in, they're going to be horrible when
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this is all
over. And the reality is, is if
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you drop those charges, that abuse is going to be
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worse on the other end of drop charges than it
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will be on the other end of dealing with the
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divorce with the restraining order in place.
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No, I believe it. It's like there's a whole. I mean,
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of course, the most dangerous relationships are where there's what's
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called coercive control is present. and and those are you
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know that they started out this was real prince charming
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or just the woman of your dreams completely lovely like
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completely lovely just so giving and so wonderful and just
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understands me completely and and things move in the relationship
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very very quickly and Um, they also, the abuser undermines
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your relationships with your support network. Right. And it's very,
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very subtle. I mean, it can be very overt too,
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in terms of the control, like you're five minutes late
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and you're accused of having an affair. Or you go
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and buy groceries and your spouse, you know, reimburses you
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and your spouse yells at you because you bought chips
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and refuses to reimburse you for those. And it's so
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you're alone, so you completely doubt yourself. Now, what's interesting is,
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what really makes me sad is I talk to a
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lot of people who are working with a therapist and
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they have no idea they're in an abusive relationship.
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I was one of those.
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Right? Because I'll spot it talking to somebody. I was
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chatting with a fellow this morning and he kept apologizing.
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Even for a Canadian, it was excessive. Right? And he
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said a few other things and I'm like, okay. So it's,
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you really, really doubt yourself. And I see a lot of,
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not a lot, but there's a tell with it. And
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you might have noticed this in mediation too. In coercive control,
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you'll have one partner who's really articulate and charming and
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they make so much sense, right? And they're just reasonable.
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They're
just great to talk to. And then you have
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the other spouse who can come across as whiny and indecisive.
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And they might have been diagnosed recently with ADHD or
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depression or Right. And they're just, you know, they're micromanagers
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to an extreme level. And as a lawyer, when I'd
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have those clients, I never knew, oh, it's coercive control.
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But with mediation, I see it because the person who's
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the micromanager, they know the facts like that, you know,
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and the other person who's so charming. They're just skimming
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the surface. They don't have the details. And so I
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talk with people like that and I'm just, okay, this
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is abusive.
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It's very noticeable when you start talking with people, like
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you said, he apologized several times. That's like key number one.
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And I get my clients to stop saying, I'm sorry.
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They can apologize and they shouldn't apologize for their actions,
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but apologize for how Their actions made you feel so
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that they are not taking responsibility for that person's actions.
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But you're right. That's one of the very first things
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that we see in people that are dealing with coercive
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control is they apologize a lot.
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And as I say, I now, oh, yeah, depression. Oh,
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I was just diagnosed with ADHD. Okay. Mm-hmm.
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Yeah. So you and I have a very similar way
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of mediating, even though you weren't trained in the restorative side,
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your mediation aspects are very similar to the way that
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I do things. And then we talked earlier about how
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lawyers come in and when they come into mediation, it's like,
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oh my gosh, mediation slows down. It's like you hit
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this brick wall. And so if my client's decide they
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need to have attorneys, I do a fishbowl effect. I
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don't allow the attorneys to talk during the mediation process.
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I tell them that if you need to talk with
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your client, we'll take a recess. Then you can talk
379
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with them, but there's going to be no stalling or
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00:27:35.990 --> 00:27:41.049
stopping things unless I feel we need to bring the
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lawyers in with ideas of how we can get over
382
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a hurdle.
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Well, and, you know, mediation, you know, for so long
384
00:27:54.130 --> 00:27:58.529
it's been, oh, just treat divorce and mediation like it's
385
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a business transaction. You know, and that's the message that
386
00:28:02.710 --> 00:28:07.029
lawyers give to their clients, too. And, of course, if
387
00:28:07.069 --> 00:28:10.450
you don't deal with the emotions, you're not going to
388
00:28:10.470 --> 00:28:14.210
be able to settle anything. Because if you don't trust
389
00:28:14.299 --> 00:28:21.180
this person... And it's really giving them the opportunity, as
390
00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:25.170
you say, even if attorneys are there. It's the client's
391
00:28:26.170 --> 00:28:30.349
need to speak. It's not having your attorney be your advocate. No,
392
00:28:30.890 --> 00:28:37.839
that's appropriate for the courtroom. that's where an attorney does
393
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the best job. And I've always remembered the first small
394
00:28:42.210 --> 00:28:44.130
claims we have. I don't know if you have small
395
00:28:44.170 --> 00:28:48.329
claims court, but yeah. Right. So my first trial and
396
00:28:48.529 --> 00:28:51.789
of course going through law school in the early 1990s,
397
00:28:52.890 --> 00:28:56.380
I thought court was the absolute best way to resolve
398
00:28:56.559 --> 00:29:00.339
any dispute. You know, you have, yeah, you have somebody
399
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:07.670
impartial and, Like, it was just so beautiful. And none
400
00:29:07.690 --> 00:29:13.329
of those icky emotions getting in. So I end up
401
00:29:13.569 --> 00:29:19.339
with this small claims trial. And my client, it was
402
00:29:19.579 --> 00:29:23.000
all over. He built a fence around a rented lot.
403
00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:26.740
His daughter and grandkids lived there. The landowner had said
404
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:30.539
beforehand they would pay for the fence. Landowner, after the
405
00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:37.069
fence was built, refused to pay. So my client takes
406
00:29:37.109 --> 00:29:39.289
them to court. And our first meeting, he mentions his
407
00:29:39.309 --> 00:29:43.599
daughter and grandkids and it's a busy street. So we
408
00:29:43.640 --> 00:29:46.579
are successful in court, other than the fact that the
409
00:29:46.680 --> 00:29:50.450
court did not order him taxes that he paid on
410
00:29:50.470 --> 00:29:58.029
the materials. And I am... So excited. Look at this.
411
00:29:58.170 --> 00:30:03.380
I'm a good advocate. We won. Justice has prevailed. All
412
00:30:03.410 --> 00:30:08.319
of it. And I phone him to discuss our success.
413
00:30:09.779 --> 00:30:14.240
He's furious. The judge didn't listen to me. I cannot
414
00:30:14.299 --> 00:30:17.609
believe this. This is a travesty. You know, if he'd
415
00:30:17.619 --> 00:30:19.430
listened to me, he would have given me back the
416
00:30:19.490 --> 00:30:25.890
taxes on this. Like it was less than $ 100. And
417
00:30:25.930 --> 00:30:29.130
he's wanting to appeal. And I'm like, what is going
418
00:30:29.490 --> 00:30:34.039
on here? This is not like you should be happy.
419
00:30:34.099 --> 00:30:38.700
I'm just thinking, right? And so I thought about this
420
00:30:38.900 --> 00:30:43.109
for a lot, a lot, a lot. And one day
421
00:30:43.140 --> 00:30:44.970
when I was out walking, it came to me. Oh.
422
00:30:46.769 --> 00:30:50.269
And so the next time I spoke with him, I
423
00:30:50.470 --> 00:30:53.329
asked him, I said, why did you build the fence?
424
00:30:55.490 --> 00:31:00.279
I thought back to our first conversation. And I said,
425
00:31:00.420 --> 00:31:07.559
wasn't it to keep your grandkids safe? He relaxed them.
426
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:13.599
And he was happy with the decision. And of course,
427
00:31:13.660 --> 00:31:18.170
what had happened was, with the legal process, what was
428
00:31:18.259 --> 00:31:22.619
most important to him was completely ignored. It was not
429
00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:26.579
part of the language. It didn't fit within the legal issues.
430
00:31:26.619 --> 00:31:31.980
So it was dropped. So the issue that was most
431
00:31:32.059 --> 00:31:35.140
important to him, that's not what the court decided. So
432
00:31:35.180 --> 00:31:39.740
of course he was angry, but once he remembered, oh yeah,
433
00:31:40.470 --> 00:31:42.829
I built it to keep the grandkids safe and they're
434
00:31:42.849 --> 00:31:46.190
giving me back most of my money and all as well.
435
00:31:48.950 --> 00:31:55.930
So that experience really shifted things for me in terms
436
00:31:56.470 --> 00:32:01.509
of decision making. But, you know, I'm kind of a
437
00:32:01.569 --> 00:32:07.380
slow learner. So after we separated, I went back to
438
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:10.720
law school to get my master's because it was something
439
00:32:10.779 --> 00:32:15.630
I always wanted to do. And I had a job researching.
440
00:32:16.170 --> 00:32:19.289
I got a job for a couple of profs on,
441
00:32:20.630 --> 00:32:26.099
you know, settlement issues. on business and commercial disputes, alternative
442
00:32:26.140 --> 00:32:30.609
dispute resolution. And I came across this statistic that said
443
00:32:30.609 --> 00:32:36.470
90% of business and commercial disputes are settled without any
444
00:32:36.609 --> 00:32:43.900
involvement from lawyers. And I remember thinking, don't they like us?
445
00:32:46.779 --> 00:32:53.559
We're still identified as a lawyer. Don't they like us? Oh,
446
00:32:54.299 --> 00:32:58.539
how could this be? I get it now. And what
447
00:32:58.559 --> 00:33:02.410
was interesting, though, is with that job, I learned that
448
00:33:02.930 --> 00:33:13.400
when people negotiate and come to a resolution, even if
449
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:17.099
it is not, strictly speaking, legally binding, they are much
450
00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:22.880
more likely to do it. because they put the effort
451
00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:26.099
into negotiating it and they have agreed to it. And
452
00:33:26.140 --> 00:33:33.009
it is their integrity on the line. And I also like, like,
453
00:33:33.069 --> 00:33:36.210
I think so if 90% of business and commercial disputes
454
00:33:36.289 --> 00:33:40.569
can settle without lawyers, there's a lot more family law disputes,
455
00:33:40.650 --> 00:33:42.509
divorce cases that can settle.
456
00:33:48.069 --> 00:33:51.910
That would be wonderful if they could. Like I had
457
00:33:51.950 --> 00:33:56.259
said before, we wait to bring on the attorney until
458
00:33:56.339 --> 00:33:58.700
after everything's all organized. We don't have to pay the
459
00:33:58.759 --> 00:34:03.559
attorney to do that. But in the case with my clients,
460
00:34:03.680 --> 00:34:09.820
their 2BX is not turning in their financials. They are
461
00:34:09.980 --> 00:34:13.889
not doing anything they're court ordered to do. And so
462
00:34:14.269 --> 00:34:17.130
we have to have somebody that is able to push
463
00:34:18.269 --> 00:34:20.840
and get things done. We just need to, like I said,
464
00:34:20.889 --> 00:34:24.539
I work with this wonderful lawyer in Colorado that he,
465
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:27.420
he doesn't think about how much it's costing the client.
466
00:34:27.500 --> 00:34:30.360
He just does a hell of a job at taking
467
00:34:30.420 --> 00:34:33.510
care of his client. He just does it. And it
468
00:34:33.670 --> 00:34:36.449
can be quite the cost to the client. So we
469
00:34:36.489 --> 00:34:38.630
have to, we have to pull the reins back on
470
00:34:38.670 --> 00:34:42.750
him because he loves his work so much. And it
471
00:34:42.809 --> 00:34:45.179
would be, it would be a plus to have somebody
472
00:34:45.219 --> 00:34:46.360
like that if you needed them.
473
00:34:47.329 --> 00:34:52.210
Well, and so there's a couple of different ways to
474
00:34:52.250 --> 00:34:55.610
bring something to a conclusion when you have somebody who's
475
00:34:55.849 --> 00:35:02.210
really controlling. And the first way is before lawyers, you
476
00:35:02.250 --> 00:35:07.030
go to a mediator like you or like me. Because
477
00:35:07.250 --> 00:35:13.300
what happens, they want to be liked more. They want
478
00:35:13.380 --> 00:35:15.869
to be a good guy or this woman who's just
479
00:35:15.909 --> 00:35:19.789
a great human being. And so if you get them
480
00:35:19.889 --> 00:35:24.550
soon enough, they're going to be more interested. You know,
481
00:35:24.619 --> 00:35:29.340
there's fewer outside influences. I know one couple I worked with,
482
00:35:29.940 --> 00:35:32.840
It was actually quite lovely that he had a co-worker
483
00:35:33.260 --> 00:35:37.130
who was spending, I
think he would spend $ 100, 000 on
484
00:35:37.170 --> 00:35:41.030
a divorce and it wasn't yet settled. So my client
485
00:35:41.070 --> 00:35:42.909
was like, look at me, I'm going to win. I can,
486
00:35:43.269 --> 00:35:48.010
you know, he didn't say that. No, that was part
487
00:35:48.789 --> 00:35:51.829
of his rationale for settlement. And he actually agreed to
488
00:35:51.869 --> 00:35:56.269
pay more spousal support and for a longer time than
489
00:35:56.309 --> 00:36:02.280
when he originally talked to me. Okay. And, and we focused,
490
00:36:02.679 --> 00:36:04.769
you know, on, on life for the kids and the
491
00:36:04.789 --> 00:36:06.710
kids were adults and it was just, it was a
492
00:36:06.750 --> 00:36:11.250
beautiful thing. The other way to bring it to a
493
00:36:11.309 --> 00:36:15.510
close is with an attorney, like you mentioned, because as
494
00:36:16.730 --> 00:36:22.300
soon as the controller feels a little bit humiliated, they
495
00:36:22.340 --> 00:36:26.039
dig in and they will use the court process to
496
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:40.510
to perpetuate the abuse. So you really, really need somebody strong.
497
00:36:40.530 --> 00:36:45.070
And I'm thinking we represent, like a few years ago,
498
00:36:45.170 --> 00:36:47.269
I got a message on Facebook. Hey, Kim, do you
499
00:36:47.309 --> 00:36:50.920
remember me? And it's this former client when I was
500
00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:55.039
a junior on her file with a husband who was
501
00:36:55.079 --> 00:36:59.840
not paying child support, was not paying spousal support. owed
502
00:36:59.900 --> 00:37:02.690
in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. And we brought
503
00:37:02.730 --> 00:37:06.809
an application for contempt. So contempt is if you do
504
00:37:06.849 --> 00:37:09.630
not follow a court order, if you're found in contempt,
505
00:37:09.710 --> 00:37:13.599
you can go to jail. So it's a two day hearing.
506
00:37:14.199 --> 00:37:17.840
And the second day after lunch, there's an RCMP officer
507
00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:21.070
in the back of the courtroom. And the judge called
508
00:37:21.130 --> 00:37:25.550
a recess. And the RCMP officer, police officer, goes up
509
00:37:25.590 --> 00:37:29.110
to this gentleman and says, I want your shoelaces, your
510
00:37:29.170 --> 00:37:38.590
wallet and your belt. And so this woman, when she said,
511
00:37:38.630 --> 00:37:40.659
do you remember me, Kim? I'm like, well, I only
512
00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:43.280
ever had one RCMP officer in the back of the
513
00:37:43.360 --> 00:37:48.719
courtroom asking a fellow for his belt. Right. So, yes,
514
00:37:49.059 --> 00:37:52.469
I remember you. And she thanked me. Because that was
515
00:37:52.530 --> 00:37:57.969
the moment when her ex decided, I better start paying
516
00:37:58.050 --> 00:37:59.099
or I'm going to jail.
517
00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:03.280
Right, right.
518
00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:06.320
But the other thing is, if you don't have millions
519
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:10.679
of dollars to fight, it's really about, like one thing
520
00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:14.840
I help my clients with, my background is judo, right,
521
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:18.659
which is maximum efficiency with minimum effort. So if I'm
522
00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:25.070
coaching somebody, It's all about what do you really need? Like,
523
00:38:25.130 --> 00:38:27.550
what do you want? What does winning look like for you?
524
00:38:27.570 --> 00:38:31.849
And it doesn't have to match what the lawyers tell
525
00:38:31.889 --> 00:38:36.480
you is for you've won. And what does it look
526
00:38:36.519 --> 00:38:44.059
like for him? So negotiation is very, very different because
527
00:38:44.099 --> 00:38:48.289
we're playing on what he wants so that he doesn't
528
00:38:48.349 --> 00:38:54.860
know that, you know, so it's always, Right. Like like
529
00:38:55.110 --> 00:38:58.789
you never stop. You never start negotiation with your bottom
530
00:38:58.809 --> 00:39:02.829
line because they're going to push you down more. And
531
00:39:02.929 --> 00:39:05.269
it's is there and there might be something of his
532
00:39:05.550 --> 00:39:08.050
or hers that they really, really love and want to
533
00:39:08.130 --> 00:39:12.050
keep and that you don't care about. But can you
534
00:39:12.090 --> 00:39:19.079
make an argument? Why you want it? Right. So you
535
00:39:19.099 --> 00:39:23.739
can give up something. And you're much more likely to
536
00:39:23.780 --> 00:39:26.380
get something that's important to you.
537
00:39:29.530 --> 00:39:31.000
Give and take. give and take.
538
00:39:31.300 --> 00:39:36.079
Right, because in that abusive situation, you're thinking, if I just,
539
00:39:36.440 --> 00:39:38.739
I'll just go along with this and it'll all be good.
540
00:39:39.530 --> 00:39:43.269
I'll just be reasonable. And there's some attorneys who go, okay,
541
00:39:43.289 --> 00:39:49.070
let's start with reasonable. Doesn't work. But people also have
542
00:39:49.130 --> 00:39:53.380
to know how much they're willing to spend on the
543
00:39:53.460 --> 00:39:56.719
attorney and when to quit.
544
00:39:57.420 --> 00:39:57.679
Right.
545
00:39:58.409 --> 00:40:01.090
Sometimes you have to wait it out. Right. Because of
546
00:40:01.150 --> 00:40:04.429
sunk cost bias, they're going to keep spending and they
547
00:40:04.469 --> 00:40:06.710
might spend more than they're going to get in property.
548
00:40:06.869 --> 00:40:08.269
And that doesn't make sense.
549
00:40:10.269 --> 00:40:15.760
True, true. So we're already coming to a close already.
550
00:40:15.889 --> 00:40:17.780
And you and I could probably go on for another
551
00:40:17.820 --> 00:40:22.400
hour at least. So all of your contact information will
552
00:40:22.420 --> 00:40:24.619
be at the bottom of the show, but can you
553
00:40:24.659 --> 00:40:27.110
tell people how to find you and how to find
554
00:40:27.130 --> 00:40:27.690
your course?
555
00:40:28.809 --> 00:40:33.929
So my website is kimcorvin.com and the course is there.
556
00:40:33.989 --> 00:40:36.690
And the course takes you through like how to get
557
00:40:36.750 --> 00:40:40.010
on the same page so that you can actually communicate
558
00:40:40.050 --> 00:40:43.739
more effectively. It has a module, like here's all the
559
00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:47.719
information you need to gather. Here's translating the legal terms
560
00:40:47.820 --> 00:40:52.199
into plain English. So you can actually have a conversation
561
00:40:52.219 --> 00:40:55.719
where the language doesn't have you hyperventilating. So you can
562
00:40:55.780 --> 00:41:01.000
make good decisions. There's a module on separation agreements with
563
00:41:01.039 --> 00:41:04.940
some templates. There's a module on filling in court forms.
564
00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:07.900
And so you don't live where I live. Well, that's OK.
565
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:10.119
Here's how you find the court forms where you live.
566
00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:17.949
to apply for divorce, preferably together. That's the simplest with
567
00:41:17.969 --> 00:41:22.090
the separation agreement attached. And then some more resources, you know,
568
00:41:22.150 --> 00:41:26.070
like all the different types of professionals you could work with.
569
00:41:26.849 --> 00:41:29.349
Here's what you could expect to spend if you work
570
00:41:29.369 --> 00:41:33.800
with lawyers. Because even if like you do the course
571
00:41:34.659 --> 00:41:37.639
and it helps put you in a better place, you
572
00:41:37.659 --> 00:41:44.030
can work with a divorce coach and you understand, the concepts,
573
00:41:44.619 --> 00:41:48.690
you resolve three of the six issues, you've saved a
574
00:41:48.730 --> 00:41:52.889
lot of money. And so the course is there. And
575
00:41:52.909 --> 00:41:56.889
there's also on my website, a ritual for divorce, which
576
00:41:56.969 --> 00:42:00.980
helps people actually move through that. What are our best memories?
577
00:42:01.659 --> 00:42:06.920
And so they can make better decisions. But yes, that
578
00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:11.940
is best place, best place to find me. Awesome. Awesome.
579
00:42:12.809 --> 00:42:15.730
So for our viewers, I'm a certified divorce coach, meaning
580
00:42:15.750 --> 00:42:20.429
that I'm training the complexities of divorce. I've also experienced abuse.
581
00:42:21.139 --> 00:42:24.559
I watched my father go through abuse. I witnessed my
582
00:42:24.619 --> 00:42:27.099
late husband go through abuse. So not only do I
583
00:42:27.159 --> 00:42:31.949
know it textbookly, I also know it physically. So you
584
00:42:31.989 --> 00:42:35.590
can find me or contact me. through my email at
585
00:42:35.670 --> 00:42:38.710
coach Tina Lynn at Gmail. That's C O A C
586
00:42:38.989 --> 00:42:42.909
H T I N A L Y N N at gmail.com.
587
00:42:43.469 --> 00:42:48.900
My website is divorcecoachspecialist.com. You can also find me on
588
00:42:48.940 --> 00:42:52.639
social media, Facebook under Tina Lynn Huggins. That's H U
589
00:42:52.940 --> 00:42:57.760
G G I N S LinkedIn under Tina Huggins, Instagram
590
00:42:57.880 --> 00:43:01.860
under divorce coach, Tina Lynn and Tik TOK under divorce, Tina.
591
00:43:02.800 --> 00:43:04.840
So I'm One of the things I like here at
592
00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:08.039
the end, Kim, is to ask for you to give
593
00:43:08.219 --> 00:43:10.400
our viewers your last bit of advice.
594
00:43:13.780 --> 00:43:18.719
The one thing that could save you so much money
595
00:43:18.940 --> 00:43:23.860
and stress and keep you safe is if you can
596
00:43:23.909 --> 00:43:30.369
be curious, not furious. Love that. So instead of going, no,
597
00:43:30.389 --> 00:43:33.050
I don't believe you or that's wrong. Say, oh, I
598
00:43:33.690 --> 00:43:36.210
haven't thought of it that way before. Tell me more.
599
00:43:42.650 --> 00:43:44.690
I like that. Curious, not furious.
600
00:43:45.130 --> 00:43:47.090
Be curious, not furious.
601
00:43:49.030 --> 00:43:52.239
So in my advice here is, is that Kim is
602
00:43:52.340 --> 00:43:56.320
one of two retired lawyers that that are in my
603
00:43:56.380 --> 00:44:00.239
back pocket. And I haven't known Kim long enough to
604
00:44:00.280 --> 00:44:02.300
be able to actually get to work with her yet.
605
00:44:03.119 --> 00:44:06.679
But the other retired attorney, I work with her quite
606
00:44:06.760 --> 00:44:12.320
frequently with my clients. I think having Kim as somebody
607
00:44:12.699 --> 00:44:15.719
that you can go to and ask questions, pay for
608
00:44:16.139 --> 00:44:20.239
her time and ask questions and get yourself clear about
609
00:44:20.280 --> 00:44:23.519
where you're headed, especially if you're doing this pro se,
610
00:44:23.599 --> 00:44:27.429
which is kind of what Kim is suggesting here, having
611
00:44:27.550 --> 00:44:31.400
Kim in your back pocket, being able to ask questions
612
00:44:31.599 --> 00:44:37.119
is huge. So I want you to remember Kim's name
613
00:44:37.139 --> 00:44:40.260
and go to her website and find that information out
614
00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:43.940
because being able to ask her and pay for time
615
00:44:44.920 --> 00:44:48.130
saves you money as opposed to just going to your
616
00:44:48.190 --> 00:44:52.880
lawyer and handing off the divorce to the lawyer. So
617
00:44:53.179 --> 00:44:55.579
one of the things that I like to cover here
618
00:44:55.800 --> 00:44:58.219
is that as we go, and you heard me talk
619
00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:03.050
earlier about my attempted suicide. Suicide is something that some
620
00:45:03.090 --> 00:45:06.269
of us get to, that suicidal ideation. And so if
621
00:45:06.329 --> 00:45:09.530
you are contemplating or feeling like you're in that place
622
00:45:09.630 --> 00:45:13.510
right now, please call the National Suicide Prevention Hotline. This
623
00:45:13.590 --> 00:45:18.190
is here in the U.S. at 988. The
Netherlands offers
624
00:45:18.250 --> 00:45:22.539
the same help at 113. And Kim, do you guys
625
00:45:22.639 --> 00:45:26.099
have a national suicide prevention hotline there in Canada?
626
00:45:27.260 --> 00:45:28.500
I don't even know.
627
00:45:28.519 --> 00:45:31.670
Okay, so that's something we'll have to look up.
628
00:45:32.579 --> 00:45:33.199
I'm going to.
629
00:45:34.340 --> 00:45:36.820
If you are in a situation that you need the
630
00:45:36.860 --> 00:45:39.360
police there now, here in the States, please call 911.
631
00:45:39.340 --> 00:45:41.340
And it's 999 in Europe, in the UK, and in
632
00:45:41.360 --> 00:45:49.019
the Netherlands, it's 112. So you want to get the
633
00:45:49.059 --> 00:45:52.300
police there. You want to press charges. Do not remove
634
00:45:52.400 --> 00:45:56.039
those charges. Those charges are your key out of the abuse.
635
00:45:56.900 --> 00:45:59.900
Oftentimes when you drop those charges, the abuse that came
636
00:45:59.940 --> 00:46:03.389
before the charges were placed is much worse after the
637
00:46:03.449 --> 00:46:06.949
charges are dropped. This is your key out. It's a
638
00:46:07.050 --> 00:46:14.099
safe time. The domestic violence hotline is 800-799-7233. That number
639
00:46:14.139 --> 00:46:21.679
again is 800-799-7233. And I ask that you please like this,
640
00:46:22.179 --> 00:46:25.099
comment on it and share so that this can help others.
641
00:46:25.860 --> 00:46:28.480
So I really want to thank you for being here
642
00:46:28.760 --> 00:46:31.260
and talking with me today. Kim, this has been an
643
00:46:31.599 --> 00:46:32.659
awesome conversation.
644
00:46:33.559 --> 00:46:36.440
Thank you. And I just looked up the suicide crisis
645
00:46:36.519 --> 00:46:38.400
line in Canada is 988. So 988. Mm hmm.
646
00:46:42.659 --> 00:46:44.829
I need to make sure that I remember that so
647
00:46:44.909 --> 00:46:47.869
I can put it down in my notes. So, and
648
00:46:48.010 --> 00:46:50.849
actually it's the same, sorry, as I look back over
649
00:46:51.010 --> 00:46:53.309
my notes, it's the same exact one that we've got.
650
00:46:53.369 --> 00:46:55.730
So I'll make sure that I list that as also
651
00:46:55.809 --> 00:46:56.929
Canada's number.
652
00:46:57.730 --> 00:47:00.510
It's really important one to have. So thank you for
653
00:47:00.630 --> 00:47:02.929
actually for bringing that to my attention.
654
00:47:04.030 --> 00:47:06.190
So very good. I just think it's important that we
655
00:47:06.230 --> 00:47:08.969
have those important numbers because in the middle of the
656
00:47:09.010 --> 00:47:11.340
night when we're not in a good place, we need
657
00:47:11.360 --> 00:47:13.480
to have somebody that we can talk to for that moment.
658
00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:17.059
And thank you again, Kim.
659
00:47:17.079 --> 00:47:18.639
Thank you.
660
00:47:20.840 --> 00:47:26.219
You're listening to WGSN-DB, Going Solo Network, Singles Talk Radio Channel,
661
00:47:26.519 --> 00:47:29.699
where we take a lighthearted and candid approach to discussions
662
00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:34.000
on the journey of relationship loss, divorce, parenting, being single,
663
00:47:34.300 --> 00:47:39.110
relationships building, dating, and yes, sex. Join our listeners and
664
00:47:39.139 --> 00:47:41.110
begin living your best life.