Jakson Getting Real with Spencer West: Losing His Legs, Defying Every Expectation täydellinen litterointi

exchange of I needed their help the first half and they needed my help the second half. So yeah, So that was a big takeaway, the importance of providing support and that, you know, whatever we do, we don't do it alone, which is also a part of why I wanted to write this book is to highlight a lot of the folks that had helped me along the way to break free in my own life as well. So, yeah, it was a beautiful exchange of support. 00:06:08 Speaker 2: Man, that is amazing. That's so cool that you were able to well. First off, how so how did you say you were support along the way? You said you had to have support to get up, But how did you have support? 00:06:21 Speaker 3: Yeah? So, I'd had a special wheelchair made that allowed me to do some of it in my wheelchair, but most of it. After the first day, we realized I was going to be doing most of it on my hands, so my buddies. There was like this contraption that they had brought that my buddies literally like carried me above their head. Some of the porters had wrapped me in a blanket and sent me to their back, And there was also just like encouraging words on you know, I would walk as far as I could, and then we carried the rest of the way, so it would be like, you know, keep going, just a few more steps. That's really inspiring to watch you walk. So it was sort of an exchange of all of those things. 00:06:56 Speaker 2: You know, what's so cool about you in so many ways, Like you're obviously you're so cool. But I just hearing you say that story, because like, isn't it one of the biggest goals of life or like one of the biggest things that people try to run from and resist is letting someone help them. You know, Like so many people they're just like I can do this myself, I'm tough, and then they guard themselves and they walk themselves in their own little prison because they just can't let anyone help them. But you have been able and maybe by force, maybe by just the way your cards are dealt, like, but you have been able to help yourself, but then allow others to help, and then help others, like you've done the whole trilogy. And that's what we're all trying to get to, you know, because some people overhelp and all they want to do is help people, and they neglect themselves. And then other people are like, are so strong and don't help themselves, and then other people only help themselves and they're completely selfish. But you have this beautiful balance of it all. 00:07:51 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say it's fully balanced, but you know, after a lot of therapy and a lot of just you know, I'm forty five life experience, I've understood the importance of asking for help, and you know, some with the disability as a wheelchair user, there's often things that I need to ask for help for. So on the big stuff, I'm really good at it. The smaller stuff, you know, I'm not so good, and I'm still learning and still practicing on how to do that. But that's also like one of the things I think is so important for all of us to remember, because you know, we live in a time now where it's like it feels like to me at least, like it's also culture and you've got to like work really hard and do all the things. And there's this idea of like the myth of the self made person, and I just I find that hard to believe that people have done everything on their own. You know, when I hear CEOs or people say I do this all on my own, I'm like, I don't think you did. Like there had to be someone, at least one person that like helped you. And then it's breeded this culture of like it's not okay to be vulnerable, it's not okay to tell people like, hey, I can't do this by myself. So I think it's really important for us to like have that dialogue and that conversation. And that's also like a chapter in the book obviously, but for me in particular, it's been such a monumental lesson in my life that I will continue to learn, I'm sure, but doing my best to put it into practice. 00:09:09 Speaker 2: So how do you trust someone? How do you decide to trust someone? 00:09:12 Speaker 3: Like? 00:09:12 Speaker 2: How can you do it? I feel like that's the lesson we all need to know, Like when you know you have to trust them, but like you know, how do you do it? Like how do you release control? And be like I'm just gonna trust you. 00:09:21 Speaker 3: Well never well, you never know until you try. You have to try. 00:09:24 Speaker 2: Do you believe that, like it's gonna it's this is this is my destiny, this is going to work out because I sometimes I have a hard time trusting people, you know, and you need to let you go so you can trust them. 00:09:35 Speaker 3: Yeah, I have hope. I have hope that that like it, that's like something that I can't explain. It's like it that never runs dry for me. There's always like a little bit of hope left. So I think part of that is that. And you know, I want to I want to think I'd like to think that everyone will provide some sort of support. I mean, you're going to run into folks that that are won't be as supportive, But at the end of the day, I feel like most people, if they're leaning in from empathy, they're willing to offer the support. You know. 00:10:09 Speaker 2: Okay, so let's go back to the beginning. You were born, when you were born, you're born with no legs, or that happened after you were born. 00:10:17 Speaker 3: I was born with legs, okay, but I was born with a genetic disease that caused the muscles not to work, so they were amputated and two surgeries. One was at the age of two where they amputated them just below the knee with the idea that maybe I could use prosthetic legs, but that didn't work out. So then at the age of five, they were amputated just below my pelvis. And what that ultimately did is that it gave me a bit more independence. I wasn't having to drag these legs around behind me that didn't work, and I could walk upright on my hands and use a wheelchair or a skateboard, and that's sort of how I got around in

the beginning. Now as I've gotten older, I want to protect my shoulders, so I mostly use my wheelchair. But yeah, that provided me a lot of independence by having them removed. 00:11:01 Speaker 2: Do you remember that time period, like, do you remember that happening? 00:11:05 Speaker 3: I do, And the reason I remember it is because it was in the eighties and at that time, like your parents weren't allowed to stay overnight with you in the hospital, So I remember as a two year old my parents having to say goodbye, me crying, Yeah, me crying and my parents crying, and then they would be back of course the first thing. Visiting hours were the next day. 00:11:26 Speaker 2: So you would like have to sleep just in a little a little crib alone. Yeah, that's so scary. 00:11:32 Speaker 3: It was. It was so scary, and it contributed to a lot of why I struggled with sleep for most of my life. 00:11:41 Speaker 2: How'd you pinpoint that you had to go down to rabbit holes to figure that out? In you? 00:11:45 Speaker 3: I did? Yeah, therapy, you know my therapist. I love it. Yeah, it's so essential, at least for me. So yeah, that that's sort of how it came from. And we really worked in my sleep and now I'm much better. But yeah, I definitely remember that for sure. 00:12:01 Speaker 2: And you said in your book that you had a great It seemed like you had a good childhood, like you weren't like this wasn't something holding you back, like you were totally living your life and you made all the just that you needed, and it felt like you had a great childhood. 00:12:14 Speaker 3: I did. I did. It doesn't mean that I didn't face barriers as someone with a disability, but for all tents of purposes, you know, my parents treated me just like everyone else. We didn't pretend that I didn't have a disability. But what I mean by that is I still took gymnastics, I took swimming lessons. I like even took ice skating lessons for a year, but I ended up I couldn't pass to the next level because you had to be able to skate with one skate like up in the air, and I did. They were just too heavy and I couldn't balance myself on one skate on my hand and then lift the other one up. So but they treated me just like everyone else, and although I did things differently, I was still able to participate in a lot of those things. So yeah, I'm really grateful that my parents did that. They they raised me to be as independent as possible. I still there's lots of things I still need help with, but yeah, I'm really grateful for that experience in that childhood that I had. 00:13:06 Speaker 2: Do you have siblings. 00:13:08 Speaker 3: I do have one sister. She's four years younger. 00:13:11 Speaker 2: Oh that's fun. 00:13:13 Speaker 3: Yeah, what's it like being the younger? You know? 00:13:18 Speaker 2: I think I got on her nerves and she's the best. She's so responsible, she's smart, she's just like a good human being. She's like a great sister. She's just a good person. And I was just a little bit more like confused what you know, Like I just didn't know. I just it was a little It's taken me a long time to sort myself out, which I mean, I think it takes everyone a long time, but I just always kind of feel more of a disaster. 00:13:49 Speaker 3: I'm sure that's probably not true, but I you know, one of the things that I love about my sister is I was the kid that, like, I followed all the rules and you're supposed to you're the older one, I am, Yeah, And so she did the opposite, and I learned Now, in hindsight, I learned so much about she was willing to do everything to figure out who she was, and I fell into the trap of I'll just tell me what to do and who to be, and I could be that I will do that, and that's really like, yeah, I was. 00:14:19 Speaker 2: Willing to do anything to figure out who she was. So she probably felt a little more reckless, a little bit more of a mess, a little bit more defiant maybe or whatever. I don't know, I'm guessing, is that right. 00:14:30 Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, from my perspective, that's how it seemed on the outside. But now in hindsight, I'm like, oh, she was just like willing to do whatever she needed to do to figure out who she was, and I did the opposite, which is why it took me so long to figure out who I was and what my career was and to come out as gay. Like there's all these things that I think I would have done sooner if I would have maybe been a little bit more daring than I was. 00:14:53 Speaker 2: You know, So why do you think you were this way and she was the other way? And when did it switch for you? When did you or not switch? But when did it click? Can be like, dang, I'm going to start like being my baby's sister. 00:15:05 Speaker 3: It's probably I know, it's probably because I was so different already with not having legs and being a wheelchair user that I just wanted to desperately fit in. So just tell me what I need to do to fit in, and I will do that. And then yeah, and then that all sort of came to a head. I would say, when I got to college and I picked a major that I had actually no interest in. It was computer science. 00:15:32 Speaker 2: Are you a computer guy? Are you techy? 00:15:35 Speaker 3: I'm tech ish, but not to the point where I can code things. And I just didn't realize that's what That's what it was. So like I failed my first class. I'd always done very well in school, Like, oh failed, I failed a class, and then it was it was it was a It was a but it was important. It was an important lesson for me to understand because I was like, I'm doing something I don't want to do, and so then I that's when I switched majors and became a communication major. But that's when I also realized that I was gay. 00:16:01 Speaker 2: That's a lot at one time there, Spencer. 00:16:04 Speaker 3: It was I know, nothing ever comes. 00:16:06 Speaker 2: Like you say that, but like boom boom boom boom whoo, brace for impact please. 00:16:25 Speaker 3: Yeah, college was a College was a

big growth period for me, to say the least. 00:16:32 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so did you get through all that? How did you navigate those waters? I mean you make it sound so easy now, but I know that was like you were hanging on you know. 00:16:41 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it was. It was awful. I like really had to struggle through it and I'd never Like my parents didn't go to college, so they didn't have that experience. So it wasn't like I could they could share. They were very supportive, but we couldn't like share experiences that way for the first year. Truthfully, this might sound silly, but like the thing that got me through was the Rosie O'Donnell show. I loved her talk show so much and that was it was it was, and it was the one hour of the day where I was like, Okay, I can just like live in this world of her interviews and her personality and that was really helpful. And then I eventually found some friends and community that I that I really leaned into that was supportive and that helped me come out. And my best friends. I had two best friends that were still best friends today. We met in sixth and seventh grade, and my one friend came out a year before I did, and he really inspired me. I saw how his confidence changed so quickly when he really leaned into who he was authentically, and I wanted the same. So then I came out about a year after, and yeah, that's that's sort of what helped get me through and helped build that self confidence that I that I was lacking at the time. 00:17:53 Speaker 2: Okay, so how did you plan your moment to come out? Like do you plan for that? Is it like I'm gonna like make this a moment I need to get together, Like, how do you do that? What is that moment? 00:18:02 Speaker 3: Like it's one of these weird things where I just kind of knew when it was. 00:18:07 Speaker 2: Time, so that you trust the timing. 00:18:11 Speaker 3: I did, Yeah, my my instincts. I just I went with it. And so I told my my best friend like late winter, I like literally just called him up and said, hey, I think I'm like you. I couldn't even say the words I'm gay. It was too scary, and he's like, what do you mean? And I was like, well, I think I like guys too, and he was so lovely and he was like, oh, I'm so happy for you. This is so lovely and thank you for telling me. And he's just he's just so supportive. And then, you know, a few months later, it was it was Pride season and I went to my first Pride and I came home from Pride and my mom and I always like usually chat on Sunday, and I was like, I'm just gonna tell her it just it just felt right, and you know, she was very supportive right way. She's like, listen, I you know you always said that you weren't because lots of people would ask me if I was, and even I didn't know what time. It wasn't like I was like hiding some part of me. I didn't have any examples of what queer people could be like. And I grew up in a conservative town in a conservative state, and I was raised in a conservative religion, so it just wasn't an option. And when I discovered it was an option, I was like, whoa, this is nan, this is this is who I am. And so when I told her, she was like, listen, I love you. This doesn't change anything, but we'll have to figure out what this means for us. And then my dad, who although he didn't mean to be, came off as a bit of homophobic growing up, and what I realized later was like he didn't have the language to ask me if I was gay, and so I didn't tell him directly. I told my mom was like, you can tell dad, And then I called him on Father's Day and before I could say anything, he was like, listen, you're my son and I love you and it doesn't matter that you're gay. He was like, the only thing I care about is when you're going to adopt me some grandkids. 00:19:52 Speaker 2: Sweetness. I know. It was very sweet, a great family. 00:19:57 Speaker 3: I know, I feel very grateful. I know that's not everyone's experience, but yeah, I feel very grateful for that. 00:20:03 Speaker 2: You know. And I would love to hear your take on what makes a great family, because I think personally, after growing up in a great family and then having my own family and really trying hard to make it as great as I can, I feel like we're gonna mess up. We're all messy humans. We're not gonna always say the right thing. We don't all believe exactly the same thing. Like we are gonna live differently, present differently, all the things. But if you keep coming back to each other and keep mending things and they need mending and caring and showing up and just like accepting each other and not having to everybody just be right up in each other's grill and have everything to say, but just like realize that you're my people. I love you, So let's just stick together, don't you think. 00:20:46 Speaker 3: Yeah? I think that was the crux of it, that the love never went away. It was challenged and it was, but all great loves are, that's right, Yeah, And so that never dwindled for us. And you know, my mom did a really good job of letting me be the kid that I wanted to be, you know, meaning like I didn't want to go play sports. I wanted to hang out with my sister and paint her toenails and like or her fingernails and do all of those things. That was more exciting to me. And my dad had a hard time with it, but my mom was like, it doesn't matter, like, let him do these things. And I think that's I think that to me, I'm not a parent myself other than we have my partner and I have a dog. But letting kids be who they are and supporting them and who they are, I think is the best thing that I experienced from my mom and that my dad sort of learned later in life. And so I think that's the unconditional love and the idea that, like, your kids are going to be who they are, so don't try to make them be somebody that they're not. 00:21:49 Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, So what happened after all this, after you came out after college, you know, after that that moment,

what happened next? Yeah? 00:22:00 Speaker 3: So I graduated college and I was under the impression that, like I chased the American dream. I got my degree now I could come out into the world. I would get a good paying job, and all my dreams would come true. Well, none of them came true. And not only did they not come true, but no one cared. There was no manual for like what do you do when nothing works out right? And I was so lost. Yeah, that's that's that's actually the whole point of my new book is like, this is what I did to get unstuck from all of these things. Yeah. Yeah, So I went back and I worked retail for a couple of years. I eventually found a job answering phones for a salon, and Spob was living in Arizona. I'd moved from Salt Lake City, where I was going to college, to Phoenix, Arizona, and I got this job at answering phones at a salon. I did pretty well over the of course of my time there. Became one of their client operations directors. And although I had everything that society told me that I should want, on paper, it looked like a great life, but inside it was like that, I don't like this job. It doesn't provide any I was looking for John only paybal but made the world a better place, and it wasn't providing any meaning for me, but I thought, I guess this is it. So I just stayed there for like four years, and my best friend who had come out with he and I were like living together in Arizona. He moved there as well, and we were like living in this count house and we had our own pool in the backyard that we were renting, and it was awesome. I was watching all of his dreams come true, and I was jealous of his confidence, and it was jealous that like where his life was going. And I thought, there's got to be something I just like all of my self trust and self confidence had been just like destroyed. And I was watching him take some new classes for interior design. I thought, I still love theater. Maybe I should take some theater classes again. And that like changed everything for me. It reminds me of the joy that exists in life, and it also reminded me of things that I loved to do, which then built my self confidence again. And I thought, Okay, then there's got to be a better job out there for me than this. And I started to ask for help. And I was talking to a friend and he said, listen, we're going to East Africa to volunteer with this organization, which they'd done the year prior, and he was like, why don't you come with us? And initially I was like like, there's no way, Like if I can't find happiness here, how the heck am I going to find it in East Africa? But I couldn't stop thinking about it, and my family was very supportive and they said we think you should go too, So I went and it changed my life. I found myself I was seeing international development for the first time, and I found myself being so curious about it and so excited about it. All these questions were coming out of my mouth, and I was like, where are these coming from? I just had found like a new passion. 00:25:00 Speaker 2: And questions were coming out of your mouth. 00:25:03 Speaker 3: Like I was like, help me understand, like why they don't have education and why the girls aren't going to school And they were like, well, girls are expected to collect water three times a day, so that doesn't allow them the opportunity to go to school. And I was just seeing how like this model was working, how there had like water collection stations at the school, so now girls could come to school and still collect water and bring home water to their families, and I was just watching how they were working with the community, and I was like, I didn't understand that, like this was a woman's role in East Africa. And I mean, we could spend a whole hour, yes, just on this alone. But I was there was a curiosity that I'd never experienced before. But then everything changed when we went to one of the new schools and you know, the kids were so sweet and they wanted to give me a tour, and there was like literally three hundred of them, and everywhere I moved they sort of like followed me. And my friend actually called nam Madonna of the Mara. We were in the Masaimara and Kenya. But then we sat down and I asked answered all their questions and a young girl said to me, you know, she didn't know something like this, meaning the loss of my legs could also happen to white people too. And I didn't get time to like debrief it with her and talk about, like what did you mean by that, because then, of course, like all things in life, it was like we got to go. And but that phrase really stuck with me, and it was the first time where I thought, maybe my disability is not just something that happened to me. It's something that I can use, not as like, but we in the disability community called inspiration porn, which is like I'm going to inspire you, so then you'll feel better about your life. Like, that's not what I want to do, but I thought maybe I could use it on behalf of this organization that I was volunteering with to give back. And so when I came back to home to Arizona, I applied for a job to work for this social enterprise and I got the job. A few months later, I packed up my entire life and moved to Canada to work for them. So that's sort of what changed my life here. I've since moved on from that organization now run my own business. But yeah, that's that's sort of the crux of how I broke free of all of those things and found sort of my passion and the job that I do today. 00:27:12 Speaker 2: So tell me what changed in your mind, because that's like an awakening. I mean people say they have awakenings, but like, it is like an awakening in a way, right, because you're the same person, same body, same everything, except for now you're not the same person, same body, same mind. Like you're a different person. Like what happens when you have that moment? What happens in your brain? Do you feel it? 00:27:36 Speaker 3: I did,

And I remember the moment that I felt it. We were we were in like the middle of Kenya that we're going to fly back to Nairobi, which is like the you know, the main sort of hub in Kenya, and I was talking to the to our facilitator, and I was like, you know, what would it look like if I worked for this organization? I applied for a job and she was like, oh, well, you'd have to move to Toronto. And I immediately said, oh okay, And in my mind I was like, what, Like I am not the person that like just gets up and moves to another I know, but that but that's how I knew. It was like, oh, something is different here, Like I'm I'm willing to like move to a new country and live in a big city to chase my dreams. And I just it was the first time where I heard everything felt aligned and I was listening to that voice in here that was like this is right, like this is where I need to go. 00:28:28 Speaker 2: I just my body because that's it. 00:28:32 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:28:33 Speaker 2: And then but when all that clicks in. It's literally like to me, it's like when all that finally like clicks in, then it all makes sense, like it all makes sense why everything has happened. But until it clicks in, you it all feels like you're just it's like a friction, like you're just up against something. It feels like it's just hard. But then it all yeah, you're like, oh my gosh. 00:28:55 Speaker 3: This is yeah. Yeah, and I and I still went in with a ton fear of like you're doing it anyway. Yeah, I was like, but I'm gonna do it, like what, I don't have anything to lose at this point. I'm already miserable here, so I might as well try this and if it doesn't work out, I'll come back in two years and then I'll figure something else out. 00:29:11 Speaker 2: You can always go back to the same old misery, but why don't go try to find a new one? 00:29:16 Speaker 3: Might exactly exactly exactly. Yeah, So that was the first time where everything was aligned. 00:29:22 Speaker 2: So sometimes actually being in a miserable place isn't a bad thing because you're kind of like, I don't care, I'll try it. I got nothing to lose, you know, you have like that you're not like, there's not it's kind of it's kind of freedom in itself in a way. 00:29:35 Speaker 3: It was it was, you know, I still need it obviously money because that's how our world works. But I was happy to take a big pay cut because they were there was housing that they had for us, and it just it just I don't know, the whole scenario was was what I was looking for? 00:29:52 Speaker 2: So what was how did you like cana know when you got there? 00:29:57 Speaker 3: Well, I always wanted to live in New York City, but I never had a reason to and I felt like as a disabled person and I needed like a reason to live there. And so Toronto was like Canada light or New York City light. So I was so excited to live in a big city and to have all the things that my fingertips that I never had before. And I fell in love with it here. I fell in love with the people. I fell in love with the culture. You know, I realized, I know socialism can be scary for a lot of people, but I just I liked the idea of like we all kind of take care of each other here and everyone we obviously have our problems as well. We're not a perfect country. But I just liked that that there was more there felt like more empathy at the time, you know what I mean. 00:30:44 Speaker 2: You also fell in love in Canada too, right, I did. I did, And it was on Tender Is that correct? 00:30:53 Speaker 3: It was on Grinder? So the gay version, yeah. 00:30:57 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I love it that story. 00:31:01 Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, and it's My partner still teases me that this isn't the real story, but it actually is the real story. I had some friends over. One of them was a gay man, and of them was a head sexual woman and she was like, oh, I've never seen Grinder before, and we're like, oh, we'll show you. And so my mother gay friend, his name is Jake. He was like, he had my phone and he was like showing her all how it works and all of the features, and on Grinder there's a future that you can tap and that like lets someone know that you're interested in them. So they came across this profile. His name is Mario, and I correct. He was showing her all the things, and then he accidentally tapped his profile and he was like, oh my god. And I was like, I was like, well, he's cute, Like maybe he'll respond, and he did, and we went on a couple of dates, and it turns out he literally lives across the street from where I was living. And now we've been together for four years, we've been living together for two and he's just he's just the best, And you know what was so nice? Up until that point, dating was challenging for me a because I have a disability, and because gay men have a certain body type and idea that they're looking for and I just didn't fit any of that. Plus all a lot of the queer spaces here were not accessible, but I was finding on dating apps. Of course I would have to like tell my entire story of like how we lost my legs. In fact, I used to have like it all of my responses copied in a note on my phone, so because inevitably someone was going to ask, you know, three or four questions that I always got asked that I could just copy and paste the answer to. But Mario on our third date, was like, I have something to admit to you. And I was like, oh my god, what is this going to be? And he was like, I know who you are. He was like, I followed her on social media for a while, and so I didn't have to answer all those questions because relief. 00:32:48 Speaker 2: Okay, so you're na it's actually good. 00:32:52 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah worked out in my favor. 00:32:55 Speaker 2: Like I've been here, Superman for a long time. I've been trying to meet you. Yeah. 00:32:59 Speaker 3: I mean it wasn't quite that, but but he was like, I love I've loved your work and and so I I knew who I knew who you were. 00:33:17

Speaker 2: Okay, so he obviously has a beautiful heart. 00:33:21 Speaker 3: He does. 00:33:23 Speaker 2: Yes, what's his personality? Like tell me because that's so you can tell you sweet because you just got sweet saying it. 00:33:29 Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, he's He's French Canadian, so French is his first language. So that's kind of fun in itself. But I think it's just his kindness and we have the same values when it comes to the world and you know, social justice work, and he's kind of and he this is the word that he is. He's a geek, which I love. I'm also a bit of a geek. But he like he runs his own business and he does like he sources technology, does it. And one of the things that I'm so fascinating love about him is his his constant thirst for knowledge. He can walk in a room and he can talk to anyone about anything. He knows it like a little bit about everything, and I just I don't quite have that. My brain gets full quickly. So that's like one of the things that I just said him the other day was like, I just I feel so grateful that, like you just know things. So we're always like my friends are like, oh, what what about this thing? I bet Mario will know. 00:34:34 Speaker 2: Let's call Mario Like that's really that's that's a gift, that's a skill. 00:34:40 Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know what. He The other thing that I love about him he loves like time spent together, and he loves like a good sunset, and he loves a good sunrise. I know. I know. We took this trip to Tucson a couple of years ago, and they took us to this place where we could watch the sunset, and I like, he was like doing his thing off off in the corner, and I rolled over to him and I was like, and I looked and he was crying, and I was like, what's going on. You're not a big crier, and he was like, it's just so beautiful. I know. So then I'm a huge crier. I'll cry at the drop of a hat, no problem. 00:35:16 Speaker 2: I love to cry. 00:35:17 Speaker 3: Yeah, same, so then then I was crying. So I just I just love how he sees the world too. 00:35:23 Speaker 2: Well. What a beautiful life you have for yourself, Spencer West. 00:35:28 Speaker 3: Thank you. It took a lot of work to get here, and there was a lot of challenges, but yeah, I'm definitely getting it to be in the reward part. 00:35:37 Speaker 2: You did it. You're in the harvest season. My friend always says this. She says, there's all the season. She's like, there's like the plowing season, you know, where you have to like plow, do all the work, dig everything up, get the soil ready. Yeah, and Landy Crowder shout out, Laney, I love her. And then there's like, so there's the plowing season. Then you have to plant it, and then you have to do all this hard work to plant it, and then that takes a lot of time, and then have to wait for the rain to come. And then sometimes there's a drought or there's a seasonal locusts and they attack the whole crop and then you have to start the whole freaking thing over again. But just finally, one day, you have to believe the harvest will come right yeah, season, I am. 00:36:18 Speaker 3: I am, and it sort of feels like planting seeds to you know. With my new book too, it's I feel like I've harvested and now I'm like starting again a little bit professionally. 00:36:27 Speaker 2: But that's beautiful because that means that you were like restored all of your the seasons of hard work. If you're ready to start planting new seeds, then that means your harvest was full. 00:36:40 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, thank you, thank you. That's such a nice metaphors, So thank you and thank you lady. 00:36:46 Speaker 2: Yeah, Lane Crowder, thank you. But now you're ready to plant new seeds and you're coming from a new place because you're just restored full person. So now you're starting on a new chapter. That's like so beautiful and like this full of oath in abundance. I'm so happy for you. 00:37:03 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so sweet. Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah, it feels good. 00:37:07 Speaker 2: I love to see people get to the other side of their personal battles, you know, like that's like really one of my favorite things. That's why I love this podcast, and I love hearing people's stories because this whole podcast is hearing people's personal battles and how they got to the other side of them, and it's so awesome because we're all fighting, all of. 00:37:29 Speaker 3: Us are totally totally. 00:37:30 Speaker 2: You have to see people get to the other side because then you're like, I can do this, I can hang in there. 00:37:37 Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's worth it, right, Yeah, And it gives us, it gives us hope. That's also why I wanted to write the book, because you know, I'm on social media just like you are, and and I talk about the struggle a little bit, but like you know, we only have thirty to sixty seconds at the end of the day, and videos you can't talk a lot about buy a lot of stuff. So that's also why I wanted to write this book, is I wanted to show people like, hey, it didn't just happen overnight. There was like all of the struggle and all these things that I went through to like get to this point, and then you can do the same. And that's like at the end of every chapter, I've written some questions and exercises for people to do in their own lives. So it's not just my story. It's like, cool, here's what I did. Now here's what you can do to start doing the same. In your own life, because I think that's sort of our purpose here is to you know, we have our own struggles and things, and then we share those with other people and hopes that it will help them get to where they need to go a little bit faster. 00:38:31 Speaker 2: I love that because it tell us all the name of the book and tell us, like, what you've been saying, and what are the takeaways you want people to come away with from this? 00:38:39 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's so it's called breaking free. I actually have any Yeah, it's called breaking free. Stop following

expectations and start following yourself. And it's really just my journey of figuring out how to stop listening to the expectations of the world and society and start listening to what I want to need. You know, we all enter the world with a ton of expectations. You know, for me, it was to be just like everyone else and not to see yourself as disabled, which was now harmful and terrible. I am disabled and I'm really proud to be disabled. And you know, it was like you should marry a woman and have children, and that wasn't for me, Like those expectations didn't fit me. And the minute I stopped trying to fit into those is the minute everything worked out and all the magic came, you know what I mean? And so I had this is a guidebook for folks to be able to do the same in their own life. And it may not be coming out or overcoming a disability, but you know, we're in a job that we don't like, or we're in a relationship that we probably shouldn't be in, or we're living in a city where it's not working for us and we need to make a change in some way. So this is all about how I did that for myself and hopes that will help other people do the same thing. 00:39:48 Speaker 2: What are we so scared of? Because all of us have had that moment where it's like I'm just gonna stay back. I'm just gonna stay back like this, I'm not going to really step into my full self because if I do, what is going to happen? Like? What are we so scared of? 00:40:03 Speaker 3: I think it's a couple of things. I think it's the fear of the unknown and not knowing what can happen. It's like when you watch a horror movie. I feel like sometimes the build up to whatever the the monster is is so much scarier because we're going through things in our mind of what it could be, and then when it finally happened, you're like, oh, that was scary, but I'm okay, Like I'm alive and everything's all right. So I think part of it is the fear of the unknown. And for me, looking physically different, I just wanted to fit in and I thought that's what I wanted. I thought I wanted to be just like everyone else, and then what I realized, and I feel like this is a lesson that most people learn. It's like, oh, being yourself is so much better and actually works out for you better in the long run. My disability became my superpower, Like I wouldn't be the person that I am saying without my disability. So it was leaning into that authenticity. But that's scary because that means that maybe not everyone will support you. That means that maybe some of the love that you had from certain folks won't exist anymore. There is the fear of that at least. So I think it's those sort of things that can get in the way totally. 00:41:17 Speaker 2: And I've learned to whenever something leaves your life, even before you get used to like things leaving your life, like you kind of get comfortable with it and you don't want to change, like you said the fear of them. No, you don't want to change it. But when you have space, when something leaves, it opens up space and then all this new, more aligned stuff can flow in. But if you don't have space for it, it can't come to you, you know, So sometimes you're leaving is really what has to happen. 00:41:46 Speaker 3: Yeah, and getting outside of your comfort zone. I was the king of like keeping it safe and like staying in my own bubble. And you know, my other friend that I mentioned, her name is Marcy. She said this to me for the last you know, we've been friends since seventh grade. She was like the minute I met you, I was like, my job as your friend is to shove you out of your comfort zone as violently as possible, because you were too safe, like you would your life would have been so boring. And I'm so grateful that like she helped do that because I was also afraid of I don't know what, you know, what I mean, there was just so much out there that that was unknown that so I had to get outside of my comfort zone. I'm grateful that I had people to help me do that. 00:42:26 Speaker 2: You know, mine was always I was. I realized I was a high functioning, codependent people pleaser. And so basically I found out that I didn't just need some people to love me. I needed everyone to love me. Like if I went into a room or a new situation and I didn't feel like people liked me or like would like you know, like thought I was really nice and kind, it would wreck me. And it took me so long to be the fact that, like everyone doesn't have to love me, like that's okay, you know, it's fine. Yeah, you ever had to have that awakening, but that was and I still struggle with that so hard. 00:43:04 Speaker 3: Totally. We want connection, we want people to like us. I first st I really experienced that was my was my first year of college. Because the freshman dorms weren't accessible, so I was living in the upper classmen dorms where we all we lived in an apartment together. We all had our own room and then we would share a bathroom, and all these upper classmen were like in sports or were getting married, and I was the only freshman and so I was like eating alone in the cafeteria and like just going back to my room after class because I wasn't getting that like social interaction, and that was really hard to Like, I'd come from a very supportive My background is Greek and Italian and so there was lots of community and lots of support, and then I went to none of that, and I had to really understand it's okay to eat alone. I actually don't mind it now, but like I had to be forced to do some of those things. 00:44:03 Speaker 2: Where it is totally feel uncomfortable. I feel that way. She's just like, oh, I just don't want to feel. 00:44:08 Speaker 3: This way totally, but now I don't feel that way as much. Yeah, exactly. 00:44:13 Speaker 2: That's what I try to tell my daughter too. It's just like you have to just get through those feelings, and the more you get through them, then it's like, Okay, like you said, now it's not even that big deal, a

big of a deal, and no one cares like, no. 00:44:25 Speaker 3: One cares, no, and if they do, that's about them and not about me exactly. Yeah, totally. Yeah. 00:44:34 Speaker 2: So you're in a fun phase of life right now. You're really like enjoying yourself. I can tell this is fun san. 00:44:39 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, But likewise, it feels the same for you. 00:44:43 Speaker 2: Well, just a lot of learning for forty three years of life, you know. And I think, like when you're someone like yourself and me, like I'm always trying to learn, I'm always trying to like understand. I'm always trying to just like my brain is always trying to like figure things out out, especially spiritually and all of that that. And so you know, when you've been searching for a long long time, you do find some answers. You do. 00:45:10 Speaker 3: It's worth it in the end, but the middle is so hard. 00:45:16 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, well I love this, Okay, So tell me what you're looking forward to. What's exciting for you for the rest of this year. What do you want people to know about you? What tell us all the all the tea. Yeah. 00:45:27 Speaker 3: I think for me, it's just, you know, continue to get the message out about the book. You know, my day job as a motivational speaker, so continuing to speak and share my message of empowerment and also you know, the being queer and disabled and what that intersectionality is like. Yeah, and I think that's just the you know, the focus for this year is just leaning into that work and hoping that the book will get to the right people, you know what I mean. 00:45:55 Speaker 2: Do you have any like random trips that you want to take off the radar, like you know that's not for work. Is there anywhere you want to go this year? Is there anything on the bucket list? Yeah? 00:46:06 Speaker 3: I mean this year. One of my best friends we climb Kilimanjara with is turning forty and so we're going to Joshua Tree to spend his time. 00:46:14 Speaker 2: To go to Joshua Tree. 00:46:16 Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been once before, but I'm so excited to go back. It's like it's bananas. It's like you're on another planet there. It's so cool. So if you haven't been, you definitely need to go. And then my partner and I was some friends. We went to Europe last year and I went to Italy for the first time and my mom has never been, so this is in a couple of years, but we're going to go to Italy as a family to just to go. So that's something that I'm really really excited about. And then my partner and I take some fun little weekend trips here here in Ontario in Canada as well. So yeah, just you know, the last sort of five or six months have been about promotion and all those things, which is great, and I'm just looking forward for a little bit of a break soon. 00:47:01 Speaker 2: Okay, have you been on a long tour? 00:47:05 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but I was ready for it. Yeah. Oh yeah, it's definitely not but I was ready for it. But now I'm like, and I'm also like, you know, I'm forty five, so now I'm a bit older, so it's not as easy as it once was either. I'm like, oh my god, I'm so tired. 00:47:19 Speaker 2: Well, talking is exhausting, especially because you're probably saying a lot of the same stories different ways. But like you're having real you really know yourself after this. 00:47:26 Speaker 3: Don't you, Spencer totally, which I know you know as well, you know, just based on being an amazing race and your musical career before and enduring and with your husband and all the things. So yeah, I'm grateful for the opportunity because this is what I do love to do, is to tell stories in whatever capacity I can. But yeah, we all need a break, you know, we all need to take some downtime. 00:47:50 Speaker 2: Yeah. I feel like I had to take like two years off of life, like for a minute. I before I turned forty, I like hired a life coach, I like was like, what's wrong with my brain? I cannot go into my next decade without like, you know, figuring some stuff out. But you do have to let yourself have a break. And I used to think that that was like not like you shouldn't give yourself a break, but that's just as important important to your success is letting your brain like have some time to recalibrate and just like calm down and I love, I'm happy that you have a good like it seems you've got a good flow and a good balance to it. 00:48:26 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I you know, this is one of the things that I think disabled people can teach non disabled folks is our worth and our value isn't based on how much we can produce. 00:48:37 Speaker 2: Ooh that is so good. Can you say one more time with the people in the back. Yeah. 00:48:42 Speaker 3: Absolutely, Our worth and our value is not based on how much we can produce. We live in a capitalist society where that we have to go to work and we have to produce things, but we can also take a break and it's okay to take a break. And I realized, like that's also a privilege. Not everyone has that privilege to take a break in the way that I'm going to in the next two weeks. But but I think we need to get out of that mindset that like, if we're not producing, if we're not getting ahead, if we're not paying attention to the trends, then then we're nothing. That's that's that's bullshit. It's just bullshit. You know, breaks are important. Taking care of yourself is important so that we can get back and do the things that we want to do. And disabled people know this really well because we are limited by our bodies often. 00:49:31 Speaker 2: So that's really powerful and beautiful. Thank you well, Spencer. Thank you for joining me. I have loved getting to chat with you. 00:49:42 Speaker 3: Thank you. 00:49:42 Speaker 2: Thank human being. Everyone, go get your book. It's breaking free. 00:49:47 Speaker 3: It's out, it's out. 00:49:48 Speaker 2: It came out in May, Okay, and follow you where. 00:49:52 Speaker 3: So yeah, Spencer the number two the West, the Spencer to the West and on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube, and then my website is just answer to the West dot Com. 00:50:02 Speaker 2: I always wrap up with leave your Light and it's just an open ended question. What do you want people to know? 00:50:12 Speaker 3: I want people to know that. There's a quote by the author Palocuelo, who wrote the book The alchemist, and in the book he says maybe I mean I'm paraphrasing, but basically says, maybe your job isn't to become anything. Maybe our job is to unbecome all the things that don't belong to us so that we can become the person we were meant to be in the first place. 00:50:34 Speaker 2: I just got chills again. So that's what I would say, And that's why it took him journeying all over the world to figure that out, because you have to go live your life to figure that out. That's right, that's right, that's really beautiful. Thank you so much for joining me. I just love chatting with you. 00:50:57 Speaker 3: Likewise, it was so fun. You make it so easy. 00:51:00 Speaker 2: You make it so easy. Thank you, Spencer. 00:51:04 Speaker 3: Bye, thank you bye.