Jakson How Surviving Two Global Crises Built a 75,000+ Member Platform | Hamza Khan täydellinen litterointi

100 to zero overnight. 00:01:50.480 --> 00:01:59.040 We talk about how they got funded with a four-minute pitch and no polished deck, and why being pushed out of their comfort zone was the best thing that happened to the business. 00:02:03.040 --> 00:02:04.640 Thank you for having me, Khaled. 00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:05.920 Thank you so much for your time, man. 00:02:06.079 --> 00:02:06.719 Really appreciate it. 00:02:06.799 --> 00:02:22.240 So, guys, it's a very very funny story how Hamza actually meant we actually just found out that we were at the same wedding two years ago, and so we've just been catching off, you know, off-camera on some personal stories, but we'll keep those, we'll keep those between us. 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:23.120 Small worlds. 00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:23.680 Yeah, man. 00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:26.639 But Hamza, thank you so much for your time, man, and for coming on the show today. 00:02:26.800 --> 00:02:30.719 So, obviously, for the people who don't know, you're the co-founder of Let's Work. 00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:40.080 And what we wanted to talk to you about today is your journey with that because I was doing my research and you guys have been through some tough times. 00:02:40.240 --> 00:02:54.560 And to bounce back from those, I want to understand how what were you feeling during that time to see where you guys are now with over what 75,000 members or something like across the across the region now, yeah, which is insane. 00:02:54.879 --> 00:03:02.960 And to know that in 2020, that day in 2020 when everything went to shit, to be here where you are six years later is pretty insane. 00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:06.479 So we need to understand how what we gotta hear that story. 00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:07.599 We gotta hear that whole journey. 00:03:07.759 --> 00:03:14.639 But before we dive into everything, man, why don't you give the audience for the people who don't know a background, a little bit of background about yourself, and we'll take it from there. 00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:20.319 So my name's Hamza Hamza Khan, CEO of Let's Work and co-founder along with Amarel Mahari. 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:23.840 Um, so we started Let's Work about six years ago. 00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:26.400 Um, before that, I was a lawyer. 00:03:26.479 --> 00:03:28.240 So I used to be a corporate lawyer before that. 00:03:28.400 --> 00:03:37.919 Um, I was born in London, but raised in Dubai and went back to London for college, um, you know, studied law at university, um, couldn't figure out what I wanted to do with life. 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:41.759 So just sort of, you know, jumped onto that conveyor belt into the corporate world. 00:03:41.919 --> 00:03:43.680 Um, so did that for a few years. 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:51.599 And then whilst doing that, I sort of realized that I didn't want to be, I guess, um, you know, someone's bitch anymore. 00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:53.280 Like a word. 00:03:53.759 --> 00:04:04.000 I wanted to be the person who was like, you know, requesting assistance on uh matters on a Friday night, you know, and then forcing other people to work on the weekends. 00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:04.319 Yeah. 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:05.280 Yeah. 00:04:05.439 --> 00:04:10.000 So uh so I mean that's effectively how like I stumbled into entrepreneurship. 00:04:10.159 --> 00:04:18.639 Um, someone I went to high school with um reached out on LinkedIn um and she joined this um venture studio um that was E25, exactly. 00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:26.000 So it was this venture studio set up um in Ammar, so within Ammar, um which is one of the region's largest um real estate developers, of course. 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:30.079 Um they've built some of the most iconic sort of landmarks here in the UAE. 00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:40.079 And um, and so the idea was for um it was called E25 because the idea was for people under the age of 25 um with were selected from around the world. 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:45.839 Um then they were basically brought together uh to work on innovative projects within Amr's ecosystem. 00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:46.000 Okay. 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:52.800 Um so they had to synergize well with you know the various um you know key business uh verticals of MR. 00:04:53.120 --> 00:04:57.040 So real estate, obviously, hospitality, retail, entertainment. 00:04:57.199 --> 00:05:04.079 Um so we worked as, I guess, like entrepreneurs and residents at MR in in in in various different sort of capacities. 00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:05.519 And it was a fun group. 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:14.160 And I mean, aside from working within within the business, we also were given the opportunity to experiment with our own businesses. 00:05:14.319 --> 00:05:18.000 Um, so I first started off, you know, venturing into urban farming. 00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:19.439 I found that really interesting. 00:05:19.680 --> 00:05:25.839 Um, and unfortunately, I realized, you know, at the time that it was sort of heavily, you know, capital intensive. 00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:31.279 And, you know, I still to this day actually not sure how the business fundamentals could work for that here in the region. 00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:37.759 Um, and then I decided to look into other sort of areas and Hummer at the time was was looking at coworking. 00:05:37.920 --> 00:05:40.319 Um it was like 2017, 2018. 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:54.000 Um, that was when like WeWork was you know hitting like the headlines back then, you know, co-working was really becoming a thing globally, and we didn't really have any sort of um massive players here in the in the in the city, let alone the region. 00:05:54.319 --> 00:06:01.680 And so um so we decided to maybe you know test out like a co-working idea and thought, okay, people already work from cafes and hotels. 00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:04.879 Um, why don't we create like co-working spaces out of them? 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:10.560 And we saw that there were tons of sort of um hospitality access assets that Am R

had uh control over. 00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:18.879 So we thought, why don't we sort of convert some of these hotel lobbies, um create like a membership out of them, and let's get people to buy membership to come and work from there for the day. 00:06:19.199 --> 00:06:23.920 So, yeah, super random, a little bit, yeah, a little bit sort of complicated as well for some reason. 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:26.160 But I mean it was it was simple enough to be honest. 00:06:26.319 --> 00:06:35.680 And um we launched it and we got a bunch of users, it sort of validated the business, and then we added more spaces and we got more users, and like the rest of his is history basically. 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:36.160 Yeah. 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:39.600 So uh uh first of all, thanks for giving us that context and that story. 00:06:39.680 --> 00:06:49.360 And it's funny, you know, people who train in professions, law, engineering, you know, medicine, usually they uh most times they go into it and like stay in it. 00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:55.040 It's it's in from my experience that I don't see too many that branch out and start doing, you know, their own things, you know. 00:06:55.120 --> 00:06:59.519 Like my younger brother who's a doctor, he's not gonna be anything else but a doctor, you know what I'm saying? 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:02.480 But obviously, maybe it's not fair to compare it in that way. 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:10.800 But the reason I I bring this up is to make was it hard for you to leave that behind and make the jump? 00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:18.879 Because you know, there's that sunken cost thing that we all think like, oh man, I invested so much time in that and I got the degree and I have the experience in it. 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:21.680 I'm gonna let all that go for like a for a risk. 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:23.360 So, how was that experience? 00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:27.600 I know you told me it came out of frustration, but it's probably easier said than done. 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:28.800 Yeah, no, for sure. 00:07:28.959 --> 00:07:36.959 I mean, I always I always thought that you know I could still, you know, if if all fails, you know, I could still return to that legal career. 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:48.959 Um, but I think you know that that sort of that was in mind in year one, and then it was also in mind in year two, but then year three, year four, year five, as you spend more as you spend more time in this, it becomes less of a fallback, to be honest. 00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:59.199 And now, you know, it's it's incredible to see that, you know, I'm actually my like all the all the experience that we've built in this company is is is basically the most we've uh work we've ever done, you know. 00:07:59.279 --> 00:08:02.160 So it's it's it's we're more founders, more than a lawyer, to be honest. 00:08:02.879 --> 00:08:03.279 Sure, sure. 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:03.519 Yeah. 00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:10.800 So the the experience you've gained further down into

this is more valuable to you than what you would have been gaining just staying in that career, for example. 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:11.519 Totally, totally. 00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:13.199 Because you're exposed to much more as a founder. 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:14.399 You have to expose everything. 00:08:14.800 --> 00:08:30.319 Exactly, whether it's you know, I mean, GTM, finance, tech, you know, HR, sales, marketing, like you're doing everything and and still doing pretty much everything at uh in some shape or form today, because you still need to take decisions as well, right? 00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:30.879 Yeah. 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:39.600 Um and you know, so you told me about we work obviously was blowing up at the time, and that's where the idea came from, and there wasn't anything you know in the region similar to that. 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:44.000 Now, for for context, I don't know the entire WeWork story. 00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:47.440 All I know is that they were killing it at one point and then it all went bad. 00:08:47.679 --> 00:08:48.559 That's all I know. 00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:52.559 So some and I've been thinking about this question for a long time. 00:08:52.720 --> 00:09:01.600 I'm like when people say a startup failed, you that like you can look at that in two different ways. 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:05.360 You can look at that, oh they ran out of they ran out of money and they couldn't continue. 00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:06.240 That's a failure. 00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:14.879 But if that company also once upon a time was a four or five billion dollar company, was it a f you know, was it a failure? 00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:22.320 So from just from your perspective, on the question when a startup has failed, what metric do you consider it from? 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:23.679 How would you analyze that? 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:28.799 I think for me, it would be if it was sort of default dead. 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:29.840 I think that's failure. 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:46.720 I think if a business, you know, if if as a default, like it doesn't have any customers, it's not making any money, and you know, doesn't r and requires work in order for it to make money, I think that is that I would I wouldn't, I mean, obviously not in your early days, obviously, and we're talking about businesses, we're not talking about startups anymore. 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:51.759 I think I think I think I think once you've had a few years and and you're and it's still not sort of running by itself. 00:09:51.919 --> 00:10:03.279 I think I would call and and you know, and if and and someone if someone did leave the sort of equation and it did sort of sort of stop operating, then I would call that a failure more than anything because it's not sort of sustainable, right? 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:06.480 So from your perspective, it would be the inability to continue. 00:10:06.720 --> 00:10:06.879 Yeah. 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:07.759 Yeah. 00:10:07.919 --> 00:10:10.399 So

running running out of cash in an in an essence. 00:10:10.639 --> 00:10:10.879 Exactly. 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:11.440 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:11.919 Exactly. 00:10:12.080 --> 00:10:12.240 Yeah. 00:10:12.399 --> 00:10:12.480 Yeah. 00:10:12.720 --> 00:10:16.559 I think I think with with WeWork it was interesting because they're Yeah, I don't know the story. 00:10:16.639 --> 00:10:23.679 So maybe you could give me context and what did you guys learn from that, that what mista like the mistakes that they made and to apply it, you know, to apply it here. 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:24.799 I'm sure it's a great example. 00:10:25.279 --> 00:10:32.480 I mean, WeWork was interesting because I mean they really just played around with rental arbitrage, at least in the very beginning of their business and what led to their downfall. 00:10:32.720 --> 00:10:41.279 They've they've, you know, a lot of them and a lot of other co-working space operators have now evolved in terms of their business model and and the risks that they're willing on, willing to take. 00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:48.559 Um, but effectively what WeWork was doing was they were, you know, leasing tons of real estate and then subleasing it to a ton of other people. 00:10:48.720 --> 00:11:01.120 And then that risk basically of if, you know, one, you know, the people that you're leasing to subleasing to stop paying you due to force majeure, due to a pandemic, due to war, due to whatever, you know, it's like a dominant. 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:02.799 Whatever it happens, yeah, exactly. 00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:17.360 Or whatever crisis that may happen, financial crisis, even, um, then you know, then you have obligations to then pay your landlord yourself, then you know that that's when you know you have cash flow issues, and that's when I guess you effectively sort of you know struggle and then you know one day fail. 00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:20.399 So I think that was effectively the problem with WeWork. 00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:24.240 What we were doing, on the other hand, was we were not leasing any real estate. 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:29.039 So we weren't sort of you know taking on any liability any liabilities ourselves. 00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:41.919 We were basically um packaging up certain perks and access to people to then you know buy buy from us and then which we had a revenue share and still do have a revenue share with the the the venues themselves today. 00:11:42.159 --> 00:11:43.679 So we're a marketplace effectively. 00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:45.200 So we're more like an Airbnb. 00:11:45.279 --> 00:11:48.559 We're asset light, we don't own anything, we're like a booking.com. 00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:55.519 So people use us to find office space, co-working spaces, meeting rooms, um, podcast studios, even. 00:11:55.679 --> 00:12:02.240 So any place that you'd looking for, you any place that you're looking for where work can take place, um, we would have that on our platform. 00:12:02.399 --> 00:12:06.399 And so that's and it's funny because we've it's taken us a while to get there. 00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:07.679 It always does, yeah. 00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:12.960 We started off as like a that cute little co-working app to work from hotel lobbies. 00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:22.000 And now, you know, when I'm pitching to you know investors or just in conversation, I call ourselves a commercial real estate platform because that's what we currently are. 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:32.159 That's where we're basically a platform where people can you can find workspace solutions for whether you're a startup for 20 with 20 people or a corporation with 200 or even 2,000 people. 00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:33.919 So it's interesting. 00:12:34.080 --> 00:12:48.320 You guys the difference is in the business model was you guys uh didn't go down the uh the acquisition and then leasing route, which is sounds like quite expensive and it does sound risky from from what you're saying. 00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:52.960 When you create a marketplace, is me coming to you and like you have space. 00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:55.360 Do you want to make more money out of this space? 00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:56.080 Sure. 00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:59.200 Let's add all these things and then we can make money together. 00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:01.679 That is that basically what the that's kind of the what the idea is. 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:02.639 Precisely, precisely. 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:03.519 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:13:03.759 --> 00:13:05.679 I think I think that's a much better business model. 00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:06.799 Better business model. 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:09.519 I mean, obviously, someone has to own the assets at some point, right? 00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:09.919 Sure. 00:13:10.159 --> 00:13:15.679 So I mean, so so for us is we don't need we don't necessarily see the need to take on that requirement on top. 00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:18.080 Like we're just simply connecting supply to demand. 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:27.919 So available office space or available co-working space, or even, you know, great little coffee shop, which is work-friendly because you know, tons of spaces around, you know, around the world now. 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:37.120 Like you don't, you you don't, you're at work is if if there's one thing COVID sort of taught us is that work is no longer, you know, isolated into a single desk in an office. 00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:39.039 You know, work can actually happen anywhere. 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:42.399 It can happen at train stations, it can happen in a park. 00:13:42.559 --> 00:13:45.360 Um, we're just launching a new project right now as well with device. 00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:47.039 Right here, over here, right. 00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:51.120 I was literally driving by the other day, and uh my sister pointed out, she's like, Have you seen that? 00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:53.279 I'm like, oh sick, that'll be a cool place to go work from. 00:13:53.440 -->

00:13:54.240 And then here we are. 00:13:54.799 --> 00:13:55.200 Here we are. 00:13:55.279 --> 00:13:55.679 It's a sign. 00:13:56.879 --> 00:13:58.960 Yeah, but that's yeah, they look really nice. 00:13:59.279 --> 00:13:59.679 Yeah, yeah. 00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:01.679 So I mean, so that was a really interesting thing. 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:05.440 So, I mean, over the last, you know, five or six years that we've been working on Let's Work. 00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:21.440 So going back a little bit, I mean, we so we were at MR, and then uh COVID hit, obviously, and you know, obviously we were shut in terms of business for about a month or two, and then we, you know, things started opening up, and then we look restarted operations and our users were using us. 00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:33.279 And then we noticed something really interesting was because before our product was primarily marketed towards freelancers and individuals and and and so solo founders. 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:38.240 And then all of a sudden we had corporates using us because all their offices were shut. 00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:47.840 And so, you know, you had your your Siemens and DHL and PwC sort of you know employees like signing up and they're using their you know come your company email address. 00:14:47.919 --> 00:14:48.720 We're like, oh, that's cool. 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:50.000 Like these employees are signing up. 00:14:50.159 --> 00:15:10.799 And then we received inbound emails from from these companies as well saying, hey, uh, we need space for 20 people, hey, we need a boardroom for 15 people for a meeting next week, hey, we need like temporary office space for 50 people in Amman because um we've hired you know people on a new project there and our existing HQ like can't handle that many people. 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:27.840 So we started getting all these requests, and then that's when I guess my co-founder and I like started growing up a little bit as well, and we saw beyond like what we had initially built of you know, this this app to find coffee shops and hotel spaces to actually you know build building like a global workspace solution. 00:15:27.919 --> 00:15:36.080 So not just for you know coffee shops in Jumara, but for you know commercial real estate for a Fortune 500 company in Jordan, even. 00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:37.279 Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:45.120 No, it's it's really interesting how because you the point you mentioned about I think COVID is very relevant, it changed completely how people look at work. 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:46.960 We can work from anywhere, like you said. 00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:52.159 When it comes to all these co-working spaces, so I'm you know, I'm a solo founder, so I work from home. 00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:54.240 This is my office, and I got another one back there. 00:15:54.480 --> 00:16:03.120 So I'm always been the kind of person that not that I don't like co-working spaces just because I'm I do most things myself, I haven't felt the need to go to it. 00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:08.720 However, when you do go to it, I must say there is a certain what's the word? 00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:10.080 Energy? 00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:10.879 Is that the word? 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:14.879 You know, there's a vibe like oh, you walk in and like everyone here is doing something. 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:18.399 Yeah, it kind of gives you that that impression, you know, or that feeling. 00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:33.440 So I'm curious since you guys, I know you're a marketplace, but probably from all the different options you've offered and different clients you've worked with, you probably have a good idea now about what makes a good co-working space and like co-working space environments. 00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:36.720 If I came to my Hamza, I want to design a co-working space. 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:44.720 What are maybe a couple of key things I would need or from your perspective for it to for it to have the best chance to work? 00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:45.360 Totally. 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:46.559 I mean, that's a great question. 00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:58.080 And I think the the park, for example, is a combination of that exact sort of like experience, and and we're really excited to to showcase people what we think are the right ingredients for a good co-working space. 00:16:58.240 --> 00:17:00.879 Um, I think number one is the people. 00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:07.279 I think the people that are actually like working from the space, not like you're the the people that people will be working alongside. 00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:10.960 It's called co-working for a reason, and that co stands for community. 00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:12.880 It stands for you know co-workers. 00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:22.720 So it's I think it's a curation of like the right audience, I think is really important because, like you said, you're happy to work at home because you know you're doing your own thing, you're you know, locked in, you're in the zone. 00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:30.240 But part of the reason why you go to a co-working space is is probably to meet people as well, um, to network, to to share ideas. 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:40.799 Over the last like five years, like we've seen um people um do business together, start businesses together, um, start dating, getting married even. 00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:48.240 So we've seen like the most beautiful relationships like come out of our like people just you know working next to each other, right? 00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:50.960 So that's why I think the people is really, really important. 00:17:51.119 --> 00:18:00.960 So so I think I think making sure that you know the like the the crowd that you attract, um, you know, whether it's like a specific niche, we have some co-working spaces specialized for creatives over here. 00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:04.880 We have some those specialized for people who work in the fitness and wellness industries. 00:18:05.039 -->

00:18:09.200 And I and I love seeing that as well because it kind of brings those like-minded people together. 00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:09.440 Yeah. 00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:19.440 And then as a result of that, the curation of that, like the of activations and community and you know, events and talks and stuff that happens, like it sort of fills in the gaps and brings everyone together. 00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:19.839 Yeah. 00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:28.480 Um, but then aside from that, like all the obvious things as well, like you know, ergonomic chairs and you know, good furniture, Wi-Fi, obviously it's like a standard. 00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:34.160 Um, access is also very important, you know, like just like parking, even even that is by the way, a big deal. 00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:34.880 Yeah, man. 00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:46.640 Like I hate like you know, going into a tower and like, you know, and then like paying 10 derms an hour, and then like going into a lift and then getting into another lift, and then like giving my Emirates ID, like no too much. 00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:47.279 Yeah, thank you. 00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:48.319 I'm with you 100%. 00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:50.960 Like, I want to park my car and get in and walk in. 00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:52.079 Yeah, and like get to work. 00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:53.759 There should be like 30 seconds, exactly. 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:55.200 Ideally in shade as well. 00:18:55.359 --> 00:18:57.839 Yeah, you know, ideally in shade too. 00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:02.880 But you know what something you said there, the audience obviously is the most important, the most important thing. 00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:06.559 The people that you bring there, all the aesthetics as well do play into it. 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:13.759 But at the end of the day, if you have the right group of people together, you can be anywhere and you're gonna, you know, there's some positive benefit, or you're gonna have a good time. 00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:24.400 What I was thinking about when you're talking about creating a co-working space, there's a difference obviously between a co-working space culture and like an office culture. 00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:27.839 But I don't I don't know what it is. 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:29.680 Is it the is it freedom? 00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:31.680 Is it everyone's on the same level? 00:19:31.839 --> 00:19:34.559 Is it there's no rules here? 00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:37.039 But because there is a difference when you think about it. 00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:44.799 Yeah, I think I think well in the co-working space you're you're sharing the space with multiple other companies, so it's like diversity as well, right? 00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:57.759 So it's like it's it's a mix of people while in like a standard office, you're you're it's just on focusing on yeah, it's just you guys, um, which is also great as well, because then there's less distractions and stuff. 00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:05.599 But um, I think the the the the people side of things, like I think, I think the like the the way things are laid out is also really important. 00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:17.359 Like the how the space planning is used, like you know, private areas with like open areas, meeting rooms, like sofas, like versus like high tables. 00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:22.880 Like that there's a little bit of like a like a science in it as well because there's so many different ways that people work. 00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:23.839 True, very true. 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:25.839 Yeah, like I'm not always just on my desk. 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:31.119 Sometimes I'm in a phone booth, sometimes I'm on a sofa, sometimes I'm you know, just walking and thinking. 00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:31.680 Yeah, yeah. 00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:37.359 I get restless because I need to I need to move around with it, you know, editing on the computer, on the couch, you know, do some work, whatever. 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:38.799 So I I'm I'm the same. 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:39.279 I'm the same. 00:20:39.519 --> 00:20:43.920 Totally when it comes to you guys, obviously you have you raised money back in 2020. 00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:50.720 And what was interesting about that, because it a lot of people in our community, fundraising is such a massive, massive, massive topic. 00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:54.640 It's an area people struggle with, area people have a lot of challenges with. 00:20:55.279 --> 00:21:05.519 What I liked about your story, and we had you know, someone on the pod uh another guest on the podcast recently, who's a VC who gave us a whole masterclass on like how they think and how that works. 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:16.319 One thing that stood out was the people that ended up investing in you, you had built those relationships over years, they didn't invest in you straight away. 00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:28.880 And I think sometimes founders, when you're trying to raise capital, you think that if I didn't raise it now and I this relationship or this conversation won't lead to anything in the future. 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:33.039 So could you give us that how you fundraise in that story? 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:39.279 Because I think that is an area that everyone always wants to like understand how, because everyone's trying to, right? 00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:40.319 Yeah, for sure. 00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:53.519 So fundraising was interesting for us because before we could or in tandem, whilst fundraising, we were also carrying out a management buyout of Let's Work from MR. 00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:59.039 So MR was actually like part of like E25, it was part of like the the like it was one of the products that came out of it. 00:21:59.119 --> 00:21:59.839 There's multiple other stories. 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:01.359 Startups that people worked on. 00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:07.599 And Let's Work was, I guess, the the one of the success stories, basically, alhamdulillah. 00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:15.759 And at the time, I guess we basically

had like a like a like a difference in um direction of what the company should should go in. 00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:20.960 And then that's when Hamar and I were like, you know what, let's actually, you know, focus on this full time. 00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:22.319 I think this has wings. 00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:24.160 It was 2021 at the time. 00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:28.079 And we were like, we were thinking that, you know what, I think we should raise capital. 00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:33.359 We should bring on some investors to sort of take it through the more traditional sort of VC route. 00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:45.440 And so um, so yeah, so we basically like, you know, needed to buy out um MR, so become owners of that 100%, and then basically go fundraising and effectively clean up that that sort of like cap table. 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:54.400 So um so that was really interesting to be honest, because you know, you were asking, you know, your friends, your peers for advice, and no one really knew how to sort of figure that out. 00:22:54.720 --> 00:22:57.039 Yeah, first time kind of going through that at that time. 00:22:57.599 --> 00:22:58.079 Yeah, for all of them. 00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:01.839 It's like and it's like a lot because like I feel like fundraising is like it's like tough enough. 00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:05.279 And we're like, wait, how do we how do we figure this out? 00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:05.599 Yeah. 00:23:05.759 --> 00:23:18.160 Um, but we did, and we we managed to you know do it in a way where we obviously maintained our great relationship with with MR as well, which to this day continues because we have um a number of their properties listed with us on Let's Work. 00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:23.039 Um, the Rove Hotels in particular was one of our was was our first partner on Let's Work. 00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:24.799 Like it was like venue number one, you know? 00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:26.160 Like, yeah, Rogue Downtown. 00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:27.440 Yeah, literally, shout out. 00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:31.519 Um, and now we're on venue, you know, number, you know, thousand or something. 00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:33.119 Wow, we're all about that. 00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:34.799 Yeah, so it's it's cool. 00:23:34.880 --> 00:23:40.559 So so basically we did that, and then the fundraising part was interesting because obviously our first checks were friends and family. 00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:49.680 Um, that's like pretty standard, and that and that came from people who had seen like you know what we'd been doing over the last few years and really believed in it. 00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:51.920 Um and so that was you know fantastic. 00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:56.960 And then from Friends and Family, it went on to accelerators, so we got 500 global on board. 00:23:57.039 --> 00:23:59.680 Um, that was that was a phenomenal experience. 00:23:59.920 --> 00:24:07.279 Um 500 is is interesting because it's it's obviously Silicon Valley based, but they have their sort

of hubs per region. 00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:13.599 And the the Middle East hub, you know, where the the fund that we're part of is Sanabl 500, so it's the one that's HQ'd in Riyadh. 00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:13.839 Okay. 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:19.359 Um the partner there, Amaldo Khan, um, was you know on the first sort of like interview call, for example. 00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:32.720 I specifically remember she was, I think they were they were doing like 25 or 30 interviews in like, I don't know, three hours, and we were basically the last slot, and they had gone over, and I think she had to leave or something, and we only had like four minutes. 00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:35.200 And so I already talked fast enough. 00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:43.599 And then in that it was just like it was like it was it was a lot, and then she I was like, any questions? 00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:51.519 And then she was like, she was like overwhelmed, and then everyone was like cracked up laughing the same way you are as well. 00:24:51.599 --> 00:25:04.079 And and then we were in, and it was great because I feel like that was really exciting because it was a very collegiate kind of experience because you're I think accelerator experience, whether it's YC or 500 or you know, there's there's tons, tons of other good ones as well. 00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:10.799 And like I kind of I think that sort of brings you together and with other founders, and you're all sort of fighting from the trenches together. 00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:17.279 Yeah, and to this day, you know, like four or five years later since then, I'm still in touch with pretty much all of those other founders. 00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:21.200 And you know, some are still working on their businesses, some have moved on. 00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:27.440 Um, but just like but just that that connection you you have together in that sort of like cohort is is so, so important. 00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:28.000 100%. 00:25:28.319 --> 00:25:30.960 I had a similar experience, you know, with my first company in Amsterdam. 00:25:31.039 --> 00:25:32.799 We're all on the sales program together. 00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:38.160 So you train for six months and then you'd work for six months and then you'd go back to your respective countries. 00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:48.720 So everyone's starting from zero and you learn to get, like you said, there's a not misery brings company, but there's a camaraderie when you go through something together, you can relate. 00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:54.799 And that's one of the reasons you know that I've loved being part of the founder connects community because of this. 00:25:54.960 --> 00:26:05.119 Because I get to experience this and get that feel all the time, because there's all of us are here, whether you're a solo, you got a big company, you're five years ahead, you're one year ahead. 00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:10.319 There's still a lot of challenges that translate across time, you know, that you're always gonna face. 00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:16.480 And I wanted to bring it back to the COVID story a bit because that's a crazy story. 00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:21.039 Because you guys, uh, I think you famously said you were at the STEP conference. 00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:23.440 There was a picture of you guys, and that was like your best week. 00:26:23.599 --> 00:26:26.720 This was like mid-Feb, and you're like, yo, we're about to kill it. 00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:28.799 Yeah, and then boom. 00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:31.359 But that like it happened again, man. 00:26:31.839 --> 00:26:33.839 It happened again this year. 00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:36.559 Literally, it's always March. 00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:39.680 March every six years, bro. 00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:43.680 God, same thing, Feb 2026. 00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:50.559 I mean, we weren't at a SEP conference, but we were like, let's go, like we're gonna get another killing, like oh man. 00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:55.519 So by the way, I didn't even I didn't even connect this here. 00:26:55.920 --> 00:27:04.240 So wait, let's start in the first time it happened. 00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:17.200 Okay, because the first drama because the first drama it's was probably the craziest one because it's it's the second one is probably just as bad, but it's like I've kind of been here before we do a little bit. 00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:18.319 So let's start with that one. 00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:19.440 Could you tell us a story of that? 00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:28.400 And how did you feel when overnight a business could just go from like just like from all these clients to just Yeah, it sucks. 00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:30.880 Of course it sucks, but yeah. 00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:34.960 Yeah, I mean, you go from like you know, 100 to zero, and then you're like, okay, what next? 00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:40.720 And I think I mean, I mean, thank God we had a fantastic team um on board. 00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:44.960 Thank God it was a small team, it were like capital efficient, which was good. 00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:48.960 Um, thank God we were all safe and sound as well. 00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:53.200 Um, so I think that was like there is a number a number of things to be grateful for. 00:27:53.440 --> 00:27:57.759 Um but at the same time, I think just as like someone who's I don't know, how old was I at the time? 00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:06.319 I was 27 and like trying to figure out like a pandemic with a business with like you know, 10 employees, like you're gonna like it's like no one taught you this, you know? 00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:06.720 Yeah, yeah. 00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:15.279 So I mean it was it was interesting, but I think it's just a matter of you know thinking creatively and figuring out like with like like how is this an opportunity? 00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:19.680 How can we make the most of what we like of of with from what we have? 00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:28.880 And I think that's like this this this this element of like stra scrappiness

that we have in the company, which we still have to this day, and which thank God we you know had this year as well. 00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:48.960 Um, and and yeah, so then I mean at the time, for example, I remember, you know, people were like isolating, and then we're like, okay, hotels are at like zero occupancy, so maybe we can like pitch it to hotels where they um take some of their offices, they take some of their guest rooms and we remove beds, and then let's build mini offices in there. 00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:50.720 So because offices are shut. 00:28:50.960 --> 00:28:51.680 That's a great idea. 00:28:51.839 --> 00:29:03.200 Yeah, so so so then we did that, and then we did that at like you know, 25 hotels or something, um, and it was like a hit, and then people were booking them out, and everyone was happy, and then you know, things started opening up again. 00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:10.400 So I think it's like, and then and then obviously then it was like then things started getting really busy, and then we had to like you know fold that obviously because people didn't need that anymore. 00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:12.240 People were working from normal places as well. 00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:15.839 So I think it's that agility is is is what's important, you know. 00:29:16.079 --> 00:29:36.319 And you know, one thing that has a common thread that I've heard across the people, lots of founders that I've spoken to is they all have one of these kind of stories, you know, like a point where you had to look at something really bad and make a decision of I can live in this bad, or what else can I, you know, what else can I do with it? 00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:43.759 It's obviously a lot easier said than done because the emotion at that time I can imagine was very heavy, and you know, you don't know what's gonna happen. 00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:46.640 But you had that experience now. 00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:48.640 That trauma one, you've had that. 00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:50.480 We're we're good, we cleared that. 00:29:51.519 --> 00:29:56.079 What for trauma two this year? 00:29:56.400 --> 00:29:58.079 What is what did you like? 00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:08.160 What are the things you took away from that that helped this one maybe not sting as much as before, besides your experience from an emotional side? 00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:15.279 I think it was that same mindset of how do we create an opportunity out of this? 00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:17.680 Okay, so what do people need? 00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:19.519 Where are people going? 00:30:20.079 --> 00:30:34.640 Um and and how can we sort of you know figure out a way that you can to to actually twist this from actually being a downer or to being an upper, or how do we ensure you know the quickest, I guess, V-shape recovery as well? 00:30:35.039 --> 00:30:37.839 And in and in some parts of the business, it was it was a quick recovery. 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:42.960 So the co-working side, which is you know the majority of

our business, it was we were back to normal by by July. 00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:46.640 I think we bottomed out in in March, and then it was back to normal by July. 00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:51.200 And and now in September, alhamdulillah, it's like it's it's it's it feels back. 00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:51.839 Yeah, totally. 00:30:52.319 --> 00:30:52.720 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:53.519 It's Dubai's back. 00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:55.119 Yeah, yeah, there's a vibe on it right now. 00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:55.519 For sure. 00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:56.319 It seems to be, yeah. 00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:57.200 Yeah, Alhamdulillah, yeah. 00:30:57.359 --> 00:30:57.920 Alhamdulillah, yeah. 00:30:58.079 --> 00:31:16.240 And and and then obviously there's other parts of our business like the meeting rooms and officer side, where you know, obviously people are less at the time, for example, we're feeling less safe and and maybe weren't taking as big sort of decisions on, you know, office footprint and stuff, you know, for the last six months, or it's kind of a little bit more sort of careful with that decision making. 00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:21.279 So we're seeing that business side still sort of, you know, not fully back to normal. 00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:31.680 But I think it's it's thinking, okay, so if co-working is back and um and and we're currently live in Dubai, um, how do we diversify ourselves from this? 00:31:31.839 --> 00:31:37.440 Okay, if co-working and if if that seems to be doing well and is our main business and it's it's subscription revenue, right? 00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:38.559 It's like recurring revenue. 00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:40.400 So this is stuff that you can actually protect. 00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:43.279 It's not gonna just disappear overnight when people try to change their mind. 00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:46.640 So then we're like, okay, wait, we need to expand in other cities as well. 00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:57.599 So that's when you know, you know, London happened, that's when Istanbul happened, that's when we double down a little bit more on Cairo, a little bit more in in Switzerland and and and Germany as well. 00:31:57.759 --> 00:31:59.039 So we're like, okay, you know what? 00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:04.799 If our users are traveling as well, then that's then let's give them a solution to where they're going to. 00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:06.079 Yeah, fair, fair. 00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:12.720 And I'm happy you brought up the expansions because obviously we've talked about the fundraising side a little bit, but obviously the expansion. 00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:28.720 Before I get into expansions, that four uh it's I love the story you mentioned that that four minute you had four minutes to pitch, and you know how founders be like, I gotta have you know the elevator pitch, and then you gotta have my pitch deck, and then you gotta have like everything, you know, neat and tidy. 00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:36.480 And I love stories like this because

I think everyone is trying to be, we all maybe sometimes are trying to be too polished. 00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:45.680 Yeah, and we forget to just be like come across more as because you know what you're doing, like you you should know your what your business is and whatever. 00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:51.119 So it's just about how do you communicate or come across as yourself more than more than that. 00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:54.640 That's what it seems to have carried through to to for you guys to get over the line. 00:32:54.799 --> 00:32:55.119 Yeah, man. 00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:56.160 It's and it's it's not easy. 00:32:56.319 --> 00:32:57.839 Obviously, it comes with practice as well, right? 00:32:57.920 --> 00:32:58.400 Yeah, of course. 00:32:58.559 --> 00:33:01.759 And it's also like self-talk, like it's like positive self-talk. 00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:12.640 I think if, you know, if you know, if I was in a bad place, for example, like mentally, then you know, it and and I am a lot of like, you know, many times of the day or the the week, for example. 00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:25.119 So it's just like, you know, picking yourself up again and then you know, trying to figure out like, okay, like just like before, just like COVID, you know, that was a that was a there's it was a silver lining, you know, it was it was a it was a silver, like it was a silver bullet, you know. 00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:25.599 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:33:25.759 --> 00:33:28.319 Like it like, you know, it hit at the time, but actually, you know what? 00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:34.640 It actually gave us all this, like it made, it made us into like a corporate sort of like a B2B business. 00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:36.559 It gave us all those corporate customers. 00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:41.920 It forced us to go beyond like coffee shops and into like co-working and you know, office space and everything like that. 00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:44.079 So it pushed us outside of our comfort zone. 00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:50.160 Same with this, it's pushed us outside of our comfort zone of Dubai and you know, a few other cities that we, you know, had in lockdown. 00:33:50.240 --> 00:34:04.960 But you know, like, you know what, let's let's actually like push this further and turn this into a real marketplace where you know it's it's very where we're not sort of relying on you know business development and like you know communication, like, oh, we're gonna we'll onboard your space and oh, here's a contract, here's this, here's that. 00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:12.239 How can we actually automate as much of the all this as possible and then go from it's taken us X number of years to go from zero to a thousand? 00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:13.760 Can we go how many? 00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:19.679 Can we go, you know, one year to go from a thousand to say two thousand, you know, and and then you know build up on that? 00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:21.760 Optimize and refine and you know iterate that. 00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:35.280

But on the expansion side, since you guys don't have like assets, since you don't have um any of that extra cost that will come with it, obviously I could imagine for a SaaS product, the more you expand, the more users that brings cost and complications and stuff. 00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:38.800 Um I don't know how platforms work specifically, but that's my assumption. 00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:46.639 And when you so now for you to go expand into other into other countries and cities. 00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:50.960 Now a lot of founders might be in a position that they're considering that, like should I, shouldn't I? 00:34:51.679 --> 00:35:03.280 How have you when it came to the expansion conversation, how did you start thinking about it in the sense of where should we go first and why did you pick maybe that place to start? 00:35:03.519 --> 00:35:08.960 And has it been challenging launching a SaaS product in different markets? 00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:14.000 Because I can imagine there would be a there could be some interesting things there. 00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:14.800 Totally. 00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:22.480 Um look, I think for us, like everything has been like e each market launch, for example, was because of a particular reason. 00:35:22.719 --> 00:35:30.559 Um we launched in like a few years ago, we launched in Portugal, for example, because you know, Lisbon has a huge like digital nomad ecosystem. 00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:31.519 You acquired a company. 00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:32.559 We did, yeah. 00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:46.159 So we found like someone, one of our users, you know, who used us once upon a time in Dubai, loved our concept and then decided to launch it in Portugal and then got in touch with us saying, Hey, I'd rather, you know, do it with you guys rather than you know go against you guys. 00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:47.920 So um let's join forces. 00:35:48.079 --> 00:35:57.920 So that was Portugal, and that was a great, that was fantastic sort of experience of what like MA, very, very unsophisticated early stage MA could could look like. 00:35:58.320 --> 00:36:07.440 And there is tons of lessons in there as well, in terms of you know, what integration of two businesses could look like, what integrations of of the people you know into your business could look like as well. 00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:15.039 Um, then we had you know Saudi, for example, which was as a result of um, you know, the support we got from our um Saudi-based investors. 00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:17.519 Um that was the you know, that that was a clear sort of story there. 00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:19.039 And like a natural transition of it. 00:36:19.280 --> 00:36:19.599 Exactly. 00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:25.119 And then Pakistan was because we had team members, our software engineers are based in Karachi and Lahore. 00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:35.920 And, you know, one day we're thinking, like it was like one day it was a conversation between me and and and Omar and our CTO, and we're thinking, you know, you know, why isn't the team like, you know, realizing these bugs themselves? 00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:38.719 And I was like, it's because they're not using the app in their day-to-day life. 00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:45.119 So I was like, let's launch in Pakistan, let's add a few spaces in Pakistan so that the team is, you know, working from there rather than working from home. 00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:47.440 Win-win, because you know, they're coming together. 00:36:47.599 --> 00:36:54.559 They're, you know, finding working from a productive space rather than, you know, working from home where there's distractions and and you know other drawbacks. 00:36:54.719 --> 00:37:09.760 And then finally, they can actually use the product on a day-to-day basis and actually see that, oh, this is what I'm building and this you know pop-up that I've you know engineered, like, you know, is coming up in the wrong way, or this feature is you know not working in the right in the right way that you know, users could do it. 00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:11.599 So that was a reason for that as well. 00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:12.000 Yeah. 00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:16.079 So this year's expansion was actually a lot more scientific. 00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:28.239 So we've basically built little heat maps on our dashboards, um, you know, showing us like where all the app, where all the app opens are, where the searches are, um, where people are requesting. 00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:35.440 So we've added like, you know, a request feature for people to request spaces that they want to, that they want to suggest or that, you know, that they that they think is really good. 00:37:35.599 --> 00:37:56.800 So all these different factors is then feeding into, I guess, our um biz dev kind of focus and think, okay, hey, we need more spaces in Jumara, or we need we have enough spaces in downtown, um, but actually, you know, we need a little we need more meeting rooms in DIFC because we have a lot of corporate users and you know, we don't have enough in in the main central business district. 00:37:57.039 --> 00:38:14.480 So what I'm so I'm curious in your in your business, what's the biggest challenges that you guys face, like of that you're currently facing, or what are the ongoing things that it's it's something you have to consistently really stay on top of, besides I guess the performance and user experience of that? 00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:17.519 Because I think that would be a top priority for you guys. 00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:22.880 I think it's it's it's like any marketplace, it's like supply and demand and balancing that out, right? 00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:34.079 So if we're if we're seeing a lot of people, you know, looking for you know a certain product, like an office for 10 people, then we need to be, you know, we need to add more offices for 10 people and prices for that. 00:38:34.159 --> 00:38:42.639 If they're looking for more um, you know, co-working spaces in Nigeria, like

for example, in May and June, we saw a sudden spike in app downloads in Nigeria. 00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:43.840 And it was so confusing. 00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:50.480 We have one space in in Lagos, basically, that's listed with us, and suddenly started having sort of like, you know, transactions over there. 00:38:50.639 --> 00:38:56.719 So it's like figuring out like why that is happening and the the and and and if it is happening, how do we make the most of it? 00:38:56.800 --> 00:39:03.119 And how do we double down on on this city and you know start speaking to it, like start calling all the customers and be like, hey, why are you downloading us? 00:39:03.199 --> 00:39:05.360 Like, why are you, you know, what are you searching for exactly? 00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:07.360 And then finding more people that are like them. 00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:17.920 And that's kind of like the the new, I guess, North Star or compass that we're using for our sort of international expansion, which I guess is is quite organic in that way and it's very grassroots as well. 00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:26.079 So it's like literally we're very we have a very sort of like close relationship with our users, and we want to know exactly where they are and where they want to work from. 00:39:26.239 --> 00:39:27.760 And so we offer them that sort of thing. 00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:37.039 So your job from your perspective is to deliver deliver to the users the spaces and experiences and environments they're looking for. 00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:38.320 And vice versa. 00:39:38.480 --> 00:39:48.159 And offer the venues who are listing themselves, the customers, the revenue, the footfall, the marketing exposure to all the right people who would be looking for it. 00:39:48.400 --> 00:39:51.599 So the business model is as a user, I pay a subscription, I guess. 00:39:52.239 --> 00:39:52.800 You can pay as you go. 00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:53.840 Yeah, pay as you go or a subscription. 00:39:55.199 --> 00:39:58.880 And for a for a space, it's just a revenue share model. 00:39:59.039 --> 00:39:59.199 Yep. 00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:04.159 So we you get I bring 100 people, you make X, we take X, simple, clean. 00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:05.039 Exactly. 00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:05.840 Very nice. 00:40:06.079 --> 00:40:06.239 Yeah. 00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:06.880 Very nice. 00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:07.360 I like that. 00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:09.519 Well, I mean, we've also now gone beyond that. 00:40:09.679 --> 00:40:17.119 So I mean, this marketplace that we're talking about, um, and the membership, I guess, a subscription that sits on top is is, I guess, two parts of the business. 00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:24.800 Now we've gotten to a point where, you know, like like you said earlier on, like this this culmination of experience and know-how and knowledge, like how can we make the most of that? 00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:31.920 So um we've we've basically like the software that we've built, we now um white label it and and

sell it to other people. 00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:32.719 There you go. 00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:33.280 Yeah, yeah. 00:40:33.679 --> 00:40:43.440 So we have some major customers here in the UAE, in Saudi, in the wider region as well, who use our software for their real estate operations. 00:40:43.679 --> 00:41:12.320 Um, the the the the the I guess the project with Dubai Municipality is also, I guess, a step further in that direction, where not only is our software being used to manage their work from park and other sort of you know asset operations, um, but we're actually going a step further and actually running it on their behalf and advising them and telling them how it should look and how many desks we should have and how big the offices should be, and whether we need like two boardrooms of 10 people or we need like one boardroom of four and then one boardroom of 20, you know, that kind of stuff. 00:41:12.559 --> 00:41:18.800 Doesn't oversupply, I was just thinking, doesn't over since you said it's a marketplace, so your responsibility is to manage the supply and demand, right? 00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:29.199 But maybe I'm not thinking deep enough about this, but from my perspective, if you have an oversupply of venues, I don't see that as a as affecting you negatively. 00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:30.400 It can. 00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:34.000 Do you get because I'm like, if it's just a revenue thing, I'm like, oh, okay. 00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:36.239 No, I it makes total sense. 00:41:36.400 --> 00:41:53.199 Um, however, um, we've noticed this with some of our competitors as well, where they may boast and you know, say that, oh, we have 10,000 spaces listed worldwide, uh, you know, and you compare Let's Works and it's like, you know, whatever, how many else uh in comparison? 00:41:53.360 --> 00:41:56.000 Um, the problem is is that that's just like static supply. 00:41:56.159 --> 00:42:14.320 So like when if you don't have the demand actually, you know, booking those spaces or or or you know, renting offices or buying memberships for or you know, using and you if you don't have people walking in through the door of those spaces, then those spaces are gonna forget about you or they're gonna, you know, hate on you because they'll be like, this guy, this this company never sends me any customers. 00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:16.159 So I'm just gonna disable myself. 00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:17.599 And then they'll sort of ruin that. 00:42:17.679 --> 00:42:24.559 And then by the time you know you act that custom that company actually has a customer that's willing to come through, then there's dead, it's too late, you know. 00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:34.000 So I I found that our sort of like sort of more slow but steady kind of growth of this marketplace was, in my opinion, I think a smarter sort of take as well. 00:42:34.239 --> 00:42:40.800 Because then we were able to sort of launch in cities or or add spaces with demand available on day one. 00:42:41.199 --> 00:42:41.760

Gotcha. 00:42:41.920 --> 00:42:42.880 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:42:42.960 --> 00:42:44.000 So yeah, no. 00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:54.079 I never looked at the how the oversupply could uh could potentially be negative, but like you said, there, if yeah, why would I sign up with you if you're not gonna bring me anyone? 00:42:54.159 --> 00:42:56.480 Even even if it costs me nothing, yeah. 00:42:56.719 --> 00:42:57.840 I don't want to be associated with you. 00:42:58.159 --> 00:43:07.840 I have to go through training, I have to sign a contract, yeah, like why I have to confuse my stuff, and like, you know, so so yeah, you kind of have to, and people like there's there's an element of like instant gratification as well, right? 00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:28.159 If you can like people get like venues get so excited when they sign up with us and they get a booking like that day, like you know, or people someone shows up that afternoon, you know, that's like the best feeling as well, because then it it kind of makes you feel a little bit powerful as well, and you're kind of like, wow, I can actually now start funneling user behavior to actual to an actual place, you know. 00:43:28.239 --> 00:43:32.079 And that's like the same kind of high that I guess content creators get or influencers get, right? 00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:33.920 Because you're actually influencing what people are doing. 00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:34.639 Yeah, exactly. 00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:40.880 You're trying to bring you're trying to grab attention and bring people together in one space, whether it's to watch a piece of content or to be working together. 00:43:41.039 --> 00:43:49.840 So obviously, co working uh, and we touched on COVID and how things have changed, but now over the years, you start seeing slowly, slowly. 00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:55.360 I'm sure you've noticed it too, that more and more companies are starting to be like, it's so weird. 00:43:55.599 --> 00:43:57.599 It both are happening at the same time. 00:43:57.679 --> 00:43:59.760 It's like there's a massive increase in. 00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:11.119 Global remote work, but at the same time, there's also a massive increase in companies being like, hey guys, no more from home, or at least minimum four days in office and one day from home. 00:44:11.280 --> 00:44:17.039 And I have a I've said this, I've had this argument on many podcasts, but I'd love to get your perspective on it. 00:44:17.119 --> 00:44:23.599 Because I'm like, before COVID, you had an argument because I couldn't prove you otherwise. 00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:26.719 No, they have to be in the office because productivity, because blah blah blah blah blah. 00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:27.599 Fair. 00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:32.159 But then COVID happened, and the experiment, the global experiment happened. 00:44:32.239 --> 00:44:39.360 The world shut down, everyone was at home, and business still ran, the world still went, you know, life still went on. 00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:54.400 So now, from my perspective, I'm like, if you're forcing me to do that, like if I'm an employer and you're forcing me to be here for four days just to be here because you want me here for four days, for me, from my perspective, I'm like, that's not unacceptable. 00:44:54.559 --> 00:44:56.159 I don't accept, you know, that reason. 00:44:56.559 --> 00:44:58.559 Are there benefits to being in the office? 00:44:58.639 --> 00:45:01.280 Of course there are, you know, collaboration, you build relationships. 00:45:01.360 --> 00:45:14.880 I I don't discount that, but it's the do you think we're we're getting to a stage where the eventually it's gonna have to be optional or you're not gonna be able to start attracting, you know, people? 00:45:15.679 --> 00:45:17.519 Man, there's there's so many factors. 00:45:17.599 --> 00:45:20.960 And like you said, like it's like where do you like what data do you look at? 00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:27.119 You know, I think I think there's there's a number of ways to look at it. 00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:28.320 Let's look at it. 00:45:28.480 --> 00:45:28.800 Yeah. 00:45:29.280 --> 00:45:39.920 Um number one, I think the the the sort of like pendulum has like been shifting from like multiple sort of extremes and now is just settling in the middle. 00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:42.960 I think everything is now acceptable, you know. 00:45:43.039 --> 00:45:50.400 Like you said, like before, I think, especially like in our region, um, remote was not a thing at all here before 2020. 00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:54.880 And now it's very much sort of normal for someone to be working for a remote company. 00:45:55.039 --> 00:46:03.440 Um, it is also even more normal for someone to be working for a hybrid company, okay, where it's either three or two or three or four days in, okay. 00:46:03.599 --> 00:46:05.039 That's the majority, by the way. 00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:11.360 That's about, I would say about 70% of companies are sort of hybrid or in in remote possible companies, okay. 00:46:11.519 --> 00:46:14.719 We're not talking about other sort of, you know, things where require staff to be there. 00:46:14.800 --> 00:46:14.960 Yeah. 00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:20.320 But um, for remote capable roles, I think like 60, 70% is basically hybrid. 00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:27.360 Um, you have a small number which are like fully in person in the office, and that's because of certain, I guess maybe it's like culture, yeah, company culture. 00:46:27.440 --> 00:46:30.320 That's just like the vibe of the CEO or like the senior leadership. 00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:33.360 And there's also some companies which are, you know, fully remote. 00:46:33.599 --> 00:46:43.199 We were, I guess, fully remote at some point until we added like started adding all these spaces in like Karachi and stuff for the people to start for our team members to start using. 00:46:43.360 --> 00:46:48.960 And and it's it's amazing because, like you said, you know, bringing people

together in person is another kind of magic. 00:46:49.280 --> 00:46:49.519 100%. 00:46:50.000 --> 00:47:15.440 And when when when when you have that sort of um knowledge osmosis, when you have that banter, um, when you have those um, you know, great little moments of celebrating National Day or birthdays with cake or like outings for lunch, I think that creates a bit of um, I guess that that kind of creates that culture and that camaraderie in an organization, which I feel like is is is definitely needed. 00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:23.280 I think even the most, you know, in like even the most remote companies still definitely have in-person interactions a few times of the year. 00:47:23.360 --> 00:47:32.079 You know, they'll have like, I think the best companies will have like uh an annual offsite, you know, where everyone comes together and you know, at least maybe not the whole organization, but some of the team. 00:47:32.239 --> 00:47:36.480 I think that's like the bare minimum that you should have for a remote company. 00:47:36.639 --> 00:47:40.880 Um, what I think is best, I mean, it depends on who you are and what you're doing, you know. 00:47:41.039 --> 00:47:42.480 I mean, rent is expensive. 00:47:42.559 --> 00:47:44.960 And if you're a startup that's the thing, too, you know what I'm saying? 00:47:45.119 --> 00:47:45.440 Yeah, man. 00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:53.360 What's the is your ROI that can you measure it to be that significant for the God knows how much cost you're gonna have to pay for for exactly? 00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:58.480 And unfortunately, I guess in some instances you're it's you're kind of forced to because of like licensing, for example, or whatever. 00:47:58.880 --> 00:47:59.679 That's a different story, sure. 00:47:59.920 --> 00:48:00.320 Yeah, yeah. 00:48:00.639 --> 00:48:05.360 But I think I think it just depends on who you are, what stage of the business you're on. 00:48:05.519 --> 00:48:24.559 Also, like age, by the way, like Gen Z, Gen, like Gen Z, Gen Alpha, and like the younger you go, like because they've grown up with like remote like learning in college, and and they're you know, I guess I mean Gen Z is a whole other sort of thing, you know, and then you're we're millennials. 00:48:24.800 --> 00:48:25.199 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:37.039 My hair left a long time ago, so but um but I think yeah, I think I think Gen Z is like there's there's surveys that say that they would actually leave jobs if they were not given flexibility. 00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:37.360 Yeah. 00:48:37.519 --> 00:48:43.760 Um and they would actually prefer like less pay um than then work for a fully in the office kind of like strict kind of company. 00:48:43.920 --> 00:48:45.039 Um so that's really telling. 00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:53.440 And I think if they're the ones who are gonna be entering the workforce and then, you know, in the future, then that's like a clear telling sign of the way the direction the the world's going in. 00:48:53.760 --> 00:48:58.320 Uh and you know, I was gonna ask you, where is where are we heading with you know co-working, whatever? 00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:09.119 But when you brought the Gen Z example, that freedom, that movement, that you know, ability to have choice and you know options is they're the ones that are, to your point, coming into the workforce now. 00:49:09.280 --> 00:49:13.840 So it seems like there's a lot, there's a lot of potential in you know, in the space. 00:49:13.920 --> 00:49:16.239 And look, people are always gonna need spaces, like spaces to work. 00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:16.719 Totally. 00:49:16.880 --> 00:49:20.000 You know, you always need a space to work, whether it's an office, just your house, you need a space to work. 00:49:20.239 --> 00:49:30.800 Like you're always gonna need a gym, you know, because you know, like, you know, as much as everyone like will love, you know, like running on, like you know, working out at home or like you know, we're going for a run on the beach, like a gym will still exist, you know. 00:49:31.280 --> 00:49:37.599 So we had a we had a question from our from the from our WhatsApp community, from the founder Connects WhatsApp community. 00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:40.719 And because I told him we're like, guys, Hamza's coming on the show. 00:49:40.880 --> 00:49:42.480 What's one question you'd love to ask him? 00:49:42.559 --> 00:49:48.880 And one of our one of our members said, How did you go about breaking the initial chicken and egg marketplace problem? 00:49:49.199 --> 00:49:50.639 Ugh Supply. 00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:52.000 Like you have to start with supply. 00:49:52.239 --> 00:49:52.639 Supply first. 00:49:52.960 --> 00:50:00.000 Yeah, you need I mean you need somewhere for someone to go to, or you someone to you need like a like you know with Airbnb, like you need apartments for someone to rent. 00:50:00.320 --> 00:50:04.079 Or with on Noon, for example, or Amazon, you need food for people to buy. 00:50:04.239 --> 00:50:10.800 So I think you start with supply and then demand and then supply and then demand and kind of just like pet depending. 00:50:10.880 --> 00:50:12.719 You have to swing that pendulum, you know, I guess in that way. 00:50:12.960 --> 00:50:21.199 Did you when what before you guys launched the company, were you when you're doing your research, where was the what was the gap that you saw in the in the market at the time? 00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:23.039 Because it was still because it's still quite early. 00:50:23.119 --> 00:50:24.000 It was 2018, right? 00:50:24.079 --> 00:50:30.239 You said it was still kind of early days in co-working, I guess, the co-working term even, you know, totally. 00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:32.559 Yeah, it was very, very like nascent at the time. 00:50:33.039 --> 00:50:37.280 Um, I think for us it was just figuring out like like there's like two extremes, right? 00:50:37.360 --> 00:50:46.719 There was either um a standard office, which is not very

flexible, very expensive, and then the other extreme was Starbucks. 00:50:47.199 --> 00:50:54.960 And so how can we find, you know, how can we offer people a solution which is a healthy alternative in the middle, right? 00:50:55.039 --> 00:50:55.199 Yeah. 00:50:55.519 --> 00:51:10.480 Which, you know, doesn't come with um the long-term commitments or s or the the the inflexibility, for example, that an office has, and you know, the the the the easiness to to to to book and use. 00:51:10.719 --> 00:51:23.679 And then how do you bring in, I guess, like the the you do deal with the issues of like the Starbucks, you know, so like loud, you know, blenders going off and like freaking, you know, patchy Wi-Fi and like, you know, like uncomfortable tables. 00:51:23.760 --> 00:51:25.840 Though, you know, some Starbuckses are actually very nice now. 00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:28.400 Um, but yeah, so so how do we give people an alternative? 00:51:28.559 --> 00:51:34.719 Like, and so even with us, for example, like people can start starting to compare us to like your property finders and your dobizzles of the world. 00:51:34.880 --> 00:51:41.519 But I think for us, like we don't want to have everything, like we don't want to have like every type of office and every type of co-working space. 00:51:41.679 --> 00:51:43.760 We still like to curate it a little bit as well. 00:51:43.920 --> 00:51:49.199 So we don't want to have like all the inventory available in the city, but we want to have the best inventory available in the city. 00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:51.519 Quality require quantity with quality. 00:51:51.840 --> 00:51:52.079 Exactly. 00:51:52.320 --> 00:51:56.559 Because I mean, if you're giving people 12,000 options, you know, it's just like decision fatigue. 00:51:56.960 --> 00:52:06.480 Honestly, and when you give if you and we don't humans and we think we like a lot of options, but it's disaster for us because we get overwhelmed, then we can't decide and we don't do anything. 00:52:06.639 --> 00:52:08.559 Give me three ABC. 00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:10.880 I can work with ABC, ABC works for me. 00:52:10.960 --> 00:52:12.079 Does it work for you? 00:52:12.559 --> 00:52:13.199 It's easy. 00:52:13.519 --> 00:52:13.840 Totally. 00:52:14.079 --> 00:52:14.559 That's it. 00:52:14.800 --> 00:52:26.239 But when you so you talked about the the um how you started with supply and then you know how you had to shift to demand, then you talked about the culture at the time and how things have changed. 00:52:26.400 --> 00:52:35.440 I wanted to start rounding off our conversation for today, Hamza, and touch on more of the human side of this journey of entrepreneurship. 00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:42.000 You know, going through all the stuff that you went through, I can't I can imagine how challenging it was. 00:52:42.159 --> 00:52:44.639 I can imagine from an emotional standpoint, you know. 00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:49.679 And I know also recently you recently became a father too. 00:52:49.840 --> 00:52:50.639 Congratulations. 00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:54.719 And we also have also many founders in our community who have families. 00:52:55.440 --> 00:53:03.679 And you know, I've been doing this for six years, and everything that's happened, how much you've had to grind, be scrappy, dedicate to this. 00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:11.199 And I think sometimes people might feel maybe it's guilt, maybe they're like, uh, are we doing the right thing? 00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:19.199 I I want to spend time with my kid, but I have to give this a hundred percent, you know, for it to go to for us to get what we want, you know, out of this in the end. 00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:28.800 So maybe just giving us how it's been for you, because it's obviously still quite new, how you've been managing and you know, adjusting to this new to this new life. 00:53:29.039 --> 00:53:34.000 Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's it's like two babies, you know. 00:53:34.159 --> 00:53:42.400 It's like I I like I joke, like you know, I became a father like you know, like in 2018 when we started this little like app, you know? 00:53:42.559 --> 00:53:53.920 Yeah, so it's like so it's it's it's it's it's guilt because it's like two babies and like both need 100% of your attention, but you cannot give hundred percent of your attention to both of them at the same time. 00:53:54.159 --> 00:53:57.840 And so it's like when I'm with one, it's like, oh, I wish I was there with the other. 00:53:58.079 --> 00:54:00.639 Weirdly, weirdly, and like obviously there's guilt, right? 00:54:00.800 --> 00:54:09.519 Because it's like for some people, it's like it's your baby, like you know, you're like your human baby, you know, yeah, not your human baby deserves like all the attention. 00:54:09.840 --> 00:54:15.920 And then at the same time, you know, you need to the reason why I'm basically doing this is for her. 00:54:16.239 --> 00:54:18.480 Yeah, I need to take care of this baby to take care of this baby. 00:54:18.960 --> 00:54:20.239 Exactly, exactly. 00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:22.639 So it's it's like circular in that sense. 00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:35.280 And so I think that I think the number one thing was is just that it it's been an incredible blessing and and uh a source of joy and purpose um at at the right time. 00:54:35.519 --> 00:54:40.000 Um she was born in January, and then you know, trauma too started in March. 00:54:40.159 --> 00:54:44.000 So I think having that, you know, top of that. 00:54:44.320 --> 00:54:49.599 I mean, yeah, that there's also like the mental sort of like load, like, oh, like how do I sort of navigate this with a child now? 00:54:49.760 --> 00:55:02.320 But I mean, but alhamdulillah, you know, that like you know, we were we were safe and sound, and the and you know, the the the the leadership of the country and you know the armed forces did an incredible job of you know keeping us all um secure. 00:55:02.480 --> 00:55:05.280 Um and so you just have to leave it to

God, honestly, you know. 00:55:05.440 --> 00:55:19.840 So, but I think I think that aside, like I guess, you know, crazy, you know, wartime and stuff aside, I think what's what's incredible to see is like as a father is just seeing like a mini version of you. 00:55:20.079 --> 00:55:22.079 And you know, you're you kind of like wonder. 00:55:22.239 --> 00:55:43.119 I was out for dinner with some old colleagues last night, and we were we all three of us are dads now, and we were joking about how like we like you know have had like so many things go wrong in our lives, and like we're sort of like with like you know, still standing, and how for us now for our children, like you kind of want everything to be perfect, okay? 00:55:43.280 --> 00:55:50.159 You don't want them like as soon as they get hurt, you pick them up and you start consoling them, and you know, you want them to have the best of everything as well. 00:55:50.320 --> 00:55:54.559 So it's it's you kind of wonder whether you're like overdoing it sometimes as well. 00:55:54.639 --> 00:55:58.960 Um, and whether, you know, like we turned out okay, like we made it, right? 00:55:59.440 --> 00:56:01.199 Like so, um, so yeah. 00:56:01.519 --> 00:56:07.599 Yeah, no, and I look, and I understand I can understand the guilt aspect, man, and you know, and you said it perfectly. 00:56:07.760 --> 00:56:13.840 Two things that need a hundred percent of your time, effort, and dedication is hard, and you're gonna have to find that balance. 00:56:14.000 --> 00:56:48.079 And this is where I wanted to round off with your speak about Omar, your co-founder, because a lot of people in our community are some are solo founders, there's a lot of people are sometimes looking for co-founders, and I've from the people I've spoken to who have co-founders, it always seems that there's a strong um not just a comp a complement of business skills and shared vision, but a good relationship like between the people, like a friend, uh a friendship, you know, friends can fight, friends can you know do whatever. 00:56:48.239 --> 00:56:58.400 So, how has it been having sharing this whole last six years with Omar and what for you makes him such a great co-founder to be uh to be building this with? 00:56:58.639 --> 00:57:00.400 I mean, it's been an incredible journey. 00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:02.480 Um, and you know, I would do it again. 00:57:02.719 --> 00:57:05.280 You know, like it's it's been it's been fun. 00:57:05.440 --> 00:57:28.800 Um, it's obviously been like the ups and downs, and you know, the same sort of example that I gave about other working, you know, alongside other startups in accelerator, like this is like having having a co-founder is something even more sort of you know micro nano version of that, where like every every high, every low, like like the lowest of lows and the highest of highs, that euphoric sort of feeling, like you experience it with someone. 00:57:28.880 --> 00:57:30.559 So it's it's it's so much

fun. 00:57:30.719 --> 00:57:39.280 Um, I think you you learn so much about yourself as well, um, and how you know, how you can police yourself a little bit. 00:57:39.360 --> 00:57:44.320 Like, you know, you realize like um the other person's triggers, but you also realize your own triggers. 00:57:44.480 --> 00:57:49.199 You also realize like your the the things that you do that might trigger other people as well. 00:57:49.360 --> 00:57:50.719 So I joke with my wife as well. 00:57:50.800 --> 00:58:00.960 It's like, you know, thank God you met me, you know, a few route a few years after a few years into Let's Work because I would have been a very different person before that, you know, and you you become a lot more like understanding and of course, yeah. 00:58:01.119 --> 00:58:01.360 Yeah. 00:58:01.599 --> 00:58:06.800 Because you're you're two, you know, just like in a marriage, you're two people trying to raise a baby. 00:58:06.960 --> 00:58:07.199 Yeah. 00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:10.320 One's, you know, one's work, one's, you know, one's this. 00:58:10.800 --> 00:58:11.440 It's commitment, man. 00:58:11.679 --> 00:58:17.679 And it's and it's it's it's commitment because you know, at any point, you know, one or the other could be like, you know what, I'm done. 00:58:17.760 --> 00:58:20.639 You know, like some some low might be too low, you know. 00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:25.360 And and like, you know, obviously when you know trauma one and trauma two happen, you always panic, you know. 00:58:25.440 --> 00:58:30.960 It's like you you sort of like doubt yourself and wonder, like, you know, did I like what are we like what are we doing wrong? 00:58:31.119 --> 00:58:31.360 You know? 00:58:31.599 --> 00:58:36.480 Because it's like, you know, two steps forward, one step back, then like 10 steps forward, then four steps back. 00:58:36.639 --> 00:58:39.280 So it's like, it's like when is it gonna stop? 00:58:39.360 --> 00:58:41.280 You know, but I think the point is that it never stops. 00:58:41.519 --> 00:58:44.320 And I think, yeah, I think I think we all wish for it though. 00:58:44.960 --> 00:58:49.039 Hopefully that one day you get to cruise control and it does stop. 00:58:49.280 --> 00:58:52.719 You do reach a certain cruising altitude, let's call it that. 00:58:52.880 --> 00:58:56.079 But the the turbulence, I think that's gonna be there. 00:58:56.159 --> 00:58:57.280 But you see, you seem to keep me moving. 00:58:57.679 --> 00:58:58.800 Regardless of what you do, right? 00:58:59.360 --> 00:59:12.559 So whether it's this or whether it's something else, like whether I, you know, like whether you left everything and decided to, you know, start a charity or you know, like start a restaurant somewhere exotic or you know, whatever it is, you know, I think there's always gonna be challenges. 00:59:12.719 --> 00:59:25.119 So I think it's just like figuring out what challenges you're okay to deal with, and then and then and also hope that the the wins and the highs that you know come that results from these challenges are are worth it. 00:59:25.360 --> 00:59:26.960 Yeah, the the the yeah. 00:59:27.199 --> 00:59:40.000 I was I always try to think like, you know, at the end of my life when I look, you know, at my scoreboard, did I have more like did I have more personal wins against myself, not against anyone else, than losses. 00:59:40.159 --> 00:59:45.199 If the scoreboard is like 99, 98 on the positive side, I think that's a good, that was a good life. 00:59:45.280 --> 00:59:45.679 I'll take that. 00:59:45.760 --> 00:59:46.480 Yeah, I'll take that. 00:59:46.719 --> 00:59:51.679 Yeah, I think you just have to like figure out like what your priorities are in life as well, right? 00:59:51.760 --> 00:59:53.840 Like if you have like a clear understanding of that. 00:59:54.239 --> 01:00:18.960 Yeah, um happy you mentioned priorities are strong words because now like obviously with with your child and whatever, how has because the business was always a priority, obviously, and then you know for what you were that's where you dive in most of your focus and your attention, but now you've had to kind of adjust, I guess, that lens a little bit so that the priorities have to almost yeah, there's no work in tandem. 01:00:19.280 --> 01:00:19.760 Yeah, exactly. 01:00:19.840 --> 01:00:21.679 Yeah, you know, there's always there's a cost everywhere. 01:00:21.760 --> 01:00:22.880 There's always a cost, there's always a cost. 01:00:23.039 --> 01:00:32.800 And if it's and and and it's funny because and we've only focused on your like, you know work and then you know, family, but then there's multiple others. 01:00:32.960 --> 01:00:46.159 There's friends, there's and social life, there's fitness, you know, and like eating well, there's mental health, mental health, yeah, there's and like your personal kind of hobbies and like what keeps the and so it's you're never gonna be able to do all five every single day. 01:00:46.400 --> 01:00:59.760 I think I've kind of like figured I in my opinion, I think you can basically just do two, and like I sort of like, you know, stick to two, and I'm like, you know what, today it's and you know, five days of the week, it's it's work and something else, you know, or sometimes it's work and work, you know? 01:00:59.840 --> 01:01:06.320 Yeah, you know, you gotta have your you know, you have your late nights because something's happening, or you know, things have piled up, or it's just the season and you know that needs to go in. 01:01:06.400 --> 01:01:11.519 So, you know, that that that obviously happens on certain days, but then there's other days where it's like, you know, work and family. 01:01:11.599 --> 01:01:15.119 So I'll you know, be home for bedtime or be home for a shower, you know, bath time and stuff. 01:01:15.280 --> 01:01:15.599 Of course, yeah. 01:01:15.760 --> 01:01:16.800 Work in and wifey. 01:01:16.960 --> 01:01:20.559 So then, you know, like it's like gonna be, we'll

have date night, you know, we'll go for dinner tonight together. 01:01:20.719 --> 01:01:29.119 And and my wife has also been, you know, I guess an incredible like, you know, rock throughout all of this as well, right? 01:01:29.280 --> 01:01:34.480 Because if I'm not prioritizing the baby someone else's most of the time, and it's her, yeah. 01:01:34.719 --> 01:01:41.199 Um, if I have an issue or if I'm in sort of like a bad mood about something, like I'm not gonna, you know, whine about it to other people. 01:01:41.280 --> 01:01:42.400 Like everyone's got their shit. 01:01:42.480 --> 01:01:50.079 But you know, she sort of you know actively sort of like you know, extracts it out of me and sort of like, you know, here is what my my day's been like and kind of you know gives me. 01:01:50.239 --> 01:02:00.159 I mean, obviously obviously there's limited sort of advice or you know, feedback you know, anyone can give unless they're like really truly experiencing everything, but just having someone to talk to is is is incredible. 01:02:00.559 --> 01:02:10.400 Of course, man, as and I'm sure as you've seen with your journey and every founder's journey, it no one got to where they got to without having a support system around them. 01:02:10.559 --> 01:02:14.480 Friends, family, wife, you know, your kids, you know, the whole the whole thing. 01:02:14.719 --> 01:02:21.119 Hamza Man, I wanted to say thank you so much, bro, for coming on the podcast today, bro. 01:02:21.679 --> 01:02:23.280 This was so much fun. 01:02:23.440 --> 01:02:33.599 I love I love doing this, and I just love how things, universe, the stars aligned for us to be sitting down here again, having you know this kind of this kind of conversation. 01:02:33.840 --> 01:02:39.440 We're so so excited to have you as our guest of the month coming up on October 1st, guys, at Spotlight. 01:02:39.519 --> 01:02:42.800 So, guys, we've asked Hamza about everything today. 01:02:42.960 --> 01:02:55.280 We talked about the challenges, we talked about the fundraising, we talked about so many things, but you guys probably have some questions based on what you've heard here and what we haven't talked about that you'd probably want to ask him in person. 01:02:55.440 --> 01:02:58.880 So make sure to join us next week at Spotlight, October 1st. 01:02:59.039 --> 01:03:01.199 Our awesome guest of the month is gonna be joining us. 01:03:01.360 --> 01:03:03.199 Hamza for me on a person level, man. 01:03:03.280 --> 01:03:05.199 Thank you so much for coming on the show. 01:03:05.440 --> 01:03:06.719 I learned so much from you today. 01:03:06.800 --> 01:03:08.480 This was such a fun conversation. 01:03:08.719 --> 01:03:18.320 Your story your story when you said trauma, when the when trauma two just when you mentioned trauma two, I just lost it. 01:03:18.480 --> 01:03:21.199 I've been I've been stuck in trauma two since you mentioned it. 01:03:21.440 --> 01:03:28.159 Because to just get through trauma one and get here is crazy, but to go through it again and to still continue is amazing, man. 01:03:28.639 --> 01:03:29.920 Do you think trauma three is coming? 01:03:30.880 --> 01:03:32.239 March 2022. 01:03:33.119 --> 01:03:35.519 March 2032, six-year cycles. 01:03:35.920 --> 01:03:38.079 Hopefully, we get a break for a while before the next one, man. 01:03:38.320 --> 01:03:40.559 But Hamza Man, I just want to say thank you so much, bro. 01:03:40.639 --> 01:03:41.119 This was awesome. 01:03:41.280 --> 01:03:47.119 And if uh people want to uh check out Let's Work, join, uh sign up, but where's the best place to uh we can get in touch? 01:03:47.440 --> 01:03:47.840 For sure. 01:03:47.920 --> 01:03:51.679 You can sign up on uh let's work.io, which is our website. 01:03:51.840 --> 01:03:56.320 You can download our app on the App Store or the Google Play Store, and then follow us on socials. 01:03:56.480 --> 01:04:01.199 Um we've been stuck with Let's Work DXP for the longest time, and meta just won't let us change it. 01:04:01.280 --> 01:04:01.840 I don't know why. 01:04:02.079 --> 01:04:03.760 But it's but it's a great why why would you change it? 01:04:04.000 --> 01:04:04.800 We're global now. 01:04:04.960 --> 01:04:05.440 Uh yeah. 01:04:06.079 --> 01:04:07.119 Just launch a new page. 01:04:07.440 --> 01:04:08.800 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. 01:04:08.960 --> 01:04:10.880 But uh, you can follow us on Let's Work DXP. 01:04:11.119 --> 01:04:12.559 Done, we'll make sure to put all that in the show notes. 01:04:12.639 --> 01:04:14.079 Hamza my man, thank you so much. 01:04:14.239 --> 01:04:14.800 Really appreciate it. 01:04:15.199 --> 01:04:15.679 Thank you, bro. 01:04:15.840 --> 01:04:17.440 Really excited to see you at Spotlight next week. 01:04:17.599 --> 01:04:21.519 Guys, to everyone listening, thank you so much, and we will see you on the next episode. 01:04:21.760 --> 01:04:22.559 Take care.