Jakson The Negotiation Skills Every School Leader Needs with Scott Walker täydellinen litterointi

techniques in a moment and that allows you to 00:04:25.620 --> 00:04:28.040 kind of be comfortable with being uncomfortable 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:30.980 and then get curious and find out what's really 00:04:30.980 --> 00:04:34.120 driving the other person and driving that conflict 00:04:34.120 --> 00:04:38.000 and then from that place you can make better 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:40.160 decisions and have better conversations which 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:44.519 is ultimately what negotiation is all about and 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:47.759 you may be thinking well this is all very interesting 00:04:47.759 --> 00:04:51.050 scott but What's this got to do with my job? 00:04:51.230 --> 00:04:55.750 And all I say to people is life is one big negotiation, 00:04:56.089 --> 00:05:00.089 right? Simply a conversation with the purpose 00:05:00.089 --> 00:05:02.790 that we're looking to bring about influence and 00:05:02.790 --> 00:05:06.930 persuasion and above all, cooperation and collaboration 00:05:06.930 --> 00:05:10.310 wherever possible. And if we can do that, if 00:05:10.310 --> 00:05:13.170 that's our mindset, it can help us overcome the... 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:15.639 the conflict. I know it's quite a long answer 00:05:15.639 --> 00:05:17.920 to a pretty straightforward question, but hopefully 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:21.620 it gives you some insight there. No, it's a great 00:05:21.620 --> 00:05:24.720 overview, I think, of the conversation to come 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:27.079 and you hit on a lot of different points there. 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:30.759 And Scott, I want to make some inroads into the 00:05:30.759 --> 00:05:33.259 book. And you did say, you know, what does this 00:05:33.259 --> 00:05:36.139 have to do with me? And as educators, obviously, 00:05:36.139 --> 00:05:39.500 we're not in these life or death situations, 00:05:39.819 --> 00:05:43.350 although they can exist. But in the book, you 00:05:43.350 --> 00:05:46.829 vividly describe the red center. It's something 00:05:46.829 --> 00:05:50.569 that, you know, as I read, I really took a lot 00:05:50.569 --> 00:05:53.910 of stock in, thought about it. And when you mentioned 00:05:53.910 --> 00:05:56.389 the amygdala just a second ago, I thought about 00:05:56.389 --> 00:05:59.089 like the central nervous system. And the central 00:05:59.089 --> 00:06:01.870 nervous system in a hostage negotiation situation, 00:06:01.990 --> 00:06:06.579 it's the same. as a heated IEP meeting or a student 00:06:06.579 --> 00:06:09.319 disciplinary hearing. You know, it's the same 00:06:09.319 --> 00:06:12.720 biological constructs. Can you describe what 00:06:12.720 --> 00:06:16.259 happens to us biologically in those tense moments, 00:06:16.420 --> 00:06:20.019 in those heated exchanges? But how do we find 00:06:20.019 --> 00:06:23.860 our inner red center? And I really think our 00:06:23.860 --> 00:06:27.860 audience could benefit from that. Yeah, the red 00:06:27.860 --> 00:06:32.050 center concept. On

a hostage case, on a crisis 00:06:32.050 --> 00:06:35.350 and a kidnapping case, it's usually the physical 00:06:35.350 --> 00:06:39.129 location where the communications are taking 00:06:39.129 --> 00:06:43.029 place from us. That could be the family of the 00:06:43.029 --> 00:06:45.310 hostage. It could be the company with employees 00:06:45.310 --> 00:06:49.350 being taken and communicating with the kidnappers, 00:06:49.430 --> 00:06:52.310 usually by telephone. And as you can imagine, 00:06:52.430 --> 00:06:56.610 it's a tense, really uncomfortable, high stakes, 00:06:56.730 --> 00:07:00.360 high emotion environment. And, but eventually 00:07:00.360 --> 00:07:03.600 over time, my job was to bring order out of chaos 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:05.180 from that, which is where the title of the book 00:07:05.180 --> 00:07:08.600 came from. And over hundreds of cases, you know, 00:07:08.600 --> 00:07:13.439 300 odd cases, 15 plus years, I realized that 00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:16.300 actually this place, Red Center, it's also a 00:07:16.300 --> 00:07:19.220 metaphor, as you alluded to. It's also this place 00:07:19.220 --> 00:07:23.019 within each and every one of us. It's seen as 00:07:23.019 --> 00:07:27.259 an inner fortress, an inner citadel, a place 00:07:27.259 --> 00:07:31.459 that. um we we need to realize that no matter 00:07:31.459 --> 00:07:34.420 what is put in front of us however difficult 00:07:34.420 --> 00:07:38.839 the person the situation the circumstances we 00:07:38.839 --> 00:07:42.839 have this inner ability to withstand that otherwise 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:44.500 it wouldn't be put in front of us in the first 00:07:44.500 --> 00:07:49.040 place and somehow we'll find a way to overcome 00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:51.899 that now some people may think well that's a 00:07:51.899 --> 00:07:55.100 bit whatever but actually if you think about 00:07:55.100 --> 00:07:59.560 it You've got to find and accept reality as you 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:02.740 find it, not as you would wish it to be. And 00:08:02.740 --> 00:08:04.699 we have to take that personal responsibility. 00:08:05.259 --> 00:08:09.600 And then we're in this position. And the way 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:12.319 we can kind of tap into that inner red center, 00:08:12.420 --> 00:08:16.980 the inner fortress, so to speak, is imagine you 00:08:16.980 --> 00:08:21.279 stood on a riverbank and there's a river flowing 00:08:21.279 --> 00:08:24.529 in front of you. And that's the emotion that 00:08:24.529 --> 00:08:26.529 you're experiencing, both you and other people. 00:08:27.769 --> 00:08:30.730 And it's swirling in front of you. And occasionally 00:08:30.730 --> 00:08:34.409 what happens, life pushes you in the river. But 00:08:34.409 --> 00:08:36.830 you get out, you dry yourself off and you kind 00:08:36.830 --> 00:08:39.409 of carry on with your day. But occasionally what 00:08:39.409 --> 00:08:43.590 also happens is we get pushed in. Life pushes 00:08:43.590 --> 00:08:47.149 us in.

And then rather than getting out, we end 00:08:47.149 --> 00:08:49.659 up going for a swim. And then we get taken out 00:08:49.659 --> 00:08:52.519 to sea. And then we start to drown in the ways 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:57.179 of overwhelm and conflict. Whereas what we want 00:08:57.179 --> 00:08:59.799 to do, if we do fall in, that's fine. But we 00:08:59.799 --> 00:09:04.059 get out. We don't start swimming in that. And 00:09:04.059 --> 00:09:09.559 we try and stay on the riverbank. And the best 00:09:09.559 --> 00:09:13.879 way to describe to me was to observe but not 00:09:13.879 --> 00:09:17.659 absorb. So we want to observe what's going on. 00:09:18.570 --> 00:09:21.409 from that slightly detached place, almost like 00:09:21.409 --> 00:09:24.509 a balcony view on the riverbank. And this is 00:09:24.509 --> 00:09:30.110 not about ignoring, pushing away, suppressing 00:09:30.110 --> 00:09:32.809 any emotion, far from it. It's like I mentioned 00:09:32.809 --> 00:09:34.889 at the beginning, it's turning and facing the 00:09:34.889 --> 00:09:38.789 difficult emotion. But feeling the feeling, noticing 00:09:38.789 --> 00:09:41.470 where it shows up in our body, for me, before 00:09:41.470 --> 00:09:44.529 every phone call with the kidnappers, it would 00:09:44.529 --> 00:09:47.539 be... like a churning in the stomach it was it 00:09:47.539 --> 00:09:50.220 wasn't nerves or fear per se but i just got this 00:09:50.220 --> 00:09:53.759 churning and and i knew i had to bring my attention 00:09:53.759 --> 00:09:57.059 to that i had to feel the feeling but drop the 00:09:57.059 --> 00:10:00.259 story forget the story i'm telling myself about 00:10:00.259 --> 00:10:03.139 why i'm feeling guys needed to feel it and allow 00:10:03.139 --> 00:10:07.620 that to dissipate because what happens is when 00:10:07.620 --> 00:10:11.820 we get our hot buttons get activated or people 00:10:11.820 --> 00:10:15.080 like to use the term triggered now What happens 00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:20.059 is you get cortisol and adrenaline being pumped 00:10:20.059 --> 00:10:23.879 through your body. And you can't do anything 00:10:23.879 --> 00:10:26.580 about that biologically. It just happens. It's 00:10:26.580 --> 00:10:30.240 a fight or flight mechanism from millions of 00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:33.539 years ago over through evolution. So we just 00:10:33.539 --> 00:10:35.659 need to be able to ride the wave. And I have 00:10:35.659 --> 00:10:38.779 this three -step process that I discovered the 00:10:38.779 --> 00:10:41.299 hard way. And I can share the story in a moment, 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:44.600 if you want, about how I discovered this. this 00:10:44.600 --> 00:10:48.159 this three -step process to really harness that 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:51.059 red scent and to prevent yourself from being 00:10:51.059 --> 00:10:54.080 nudged in and going for a swim and the first 00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:58.940 step is to interrupt the pattern and that could 00:10:58.940 --> 00:11:02.419 be if you're sat down and you engage in a bit 00:11:02.419 --> 00:11:04.299 of a heated dialogue or you're getting a bit 00:11:04.299 --> 00:11:06.600 stressed or a bit overwhelmed or your hot buttons 00:11:06.600 --> 00:11:09.940 are being pressed stand up and go get some fresh 00:11:09.940 --> 00:11:12.960 air Take some deep breaths, go and get a drink, 00:11:13.159 --> 00:11:15.820 listen to some music, but something that's going 00:11:15.820 --> 00:11:18.759 to stop you from continuing in that negative 00:11:18.759 --> 00:11:22.519 spiral. And then the second step, as I've alluded 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:26.120 to, is riding that cortisol or adrenaline wave. 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:30.899 And you have about 90 seconds to do that. And 00:11:30.899 --> 00:11:33.480 then anything longer than 90 seconds, and you 00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:35.980 just press and repeat on the loop inside your 00:11:35.980 --> 00:11:39.919 head, the story. And then we move to step three. 00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:44.320 Once you're regulated and your autonomic nervous 00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:49.019 system is balanced and those swirling emotions 00:11:49.019 --> 00:11:51.919 have dissipated, step three is you can ask better 00:11:51.919 --> 00:11:55.779 questions. You know, those really great searching 00:11:55.779 --> 00:11:59.019 what and how questions. What was all that about? 00:11:59.179 --> 00:12:01.500 What have I missed? What are the opportunities 00:12:01.500 --> 00:12:03.879 here? How could I do that differently? Questions 00:12:03.879 --> 00:12:07.299 that you would never wanted to ask when you've 00:12:07.299 --> 00:12:09.000 gone for a swim in the river because all you 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:12.019 want to do is prove that you're right, they're 00:12:12.019 --> 00:12:15.340 wrong, blame name or shame. Whereas actually 00:12:15.340 --> 00:12:18.159 the call light of day, you know, I'm sure I can't 00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:20.639 be the only one on this call that has pressed 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:24.720 send or said something within that first 90 seconds 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:27.720 and then regret it and try to get it back, but 00:12:27.720 --> 00:12:32.899 it's too late. Scott, I really like the three 00:12:32.899 --> 00:12:36.100 steps. I think listeners can take those steps 00:12:36.100 --> 00:12:39.549 away. for sure and use them, implement them in 00:12:39.549 --> 00:12:42.669 practice. And I really love the biology, the 00:12:42.669 --> 00:12:45.480 cortisol pumping through our veins. about how 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:50.659 long that takes to dissipate etc i want to take 00:12:50.659 --> 00:12:54.480 one step backwards though and talk about the 00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:58.340 mistakes that people make on their way to getting 00:12:58.340 --> 00:13:01.659 to the three steps because i feel like the panic 00:13:01.659 --> 00:13:04.700 sets in and then all of a sudden we're doing 00:13:04.700 --> 00:13:07.019 things to ourselves that are going to cause us

00:13:07.019 --> 00:13:11.269 to fall into that into that river and i was thinking 00:13:11.269 --> 00:13:13.769 about the metaphor and swimming with the current 00:13:13.769 --> 00:13:16.690 to get out of it rather than against it but are 00:13:16.690 --> 00:13:19.029 there things that people do that hinder their 00:13:19.029 --> 00:13:22.190 ability to even get to step one to even think 00:13:22.190 --> 00:13:29.669 to do those steps yeah the what people generally 00:13:29.669 --> 00:13:36.389 try and do is they make any negotiation any conversation 00:13:36.389 --> 00:13:38.690 of importance particularly when it starts to 00:13:38.690 --> 00:13:42.730 get heated they make it all about themselves 00:13:42.730 --> 00:13:47.929 it's all about me myself and i and the golden 00:13:47.929 --> 00:13:50.669 rule one of the golden rules of successful negotiation 00:13:50.669 --> 00:13:54.330 no matter what context is it's not about you 00:13:54.330 --> 00:13:58.980 and there's a great cliche but it's a cliche 00:13:58.980 --> 00:14:00.799 for a reason because it's been around for so 00:14:00.799 --> 00:14:04.379 long and it's right is seek first to understand 00:14:04.379 --> 00:14:08.720 before being understood and i think the mistake 00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:12.740 people do is they ignore that it's all about 00:14:12.740 --> 00:14:16.850 well let me tell you why you're wrong In fact, 00:14:16.870 --> 00:14:19.250 I'm not even going to let you finish saying what 00:14:19.250 --> 00:14:21.389 you're going to say. And I'm going to jump in 00:14:21.389 --> 00:14:24.690 there and I'm just going to shut you down. And 00:14:24.690 --> 00:14:27.309 I'm going to name blame or shame because that 00:14:27.309 --> 00:14:30.570 makes me feel good. Even though at the time what's 00:14:30.570 --> 00:14:33.629 actually happened is you're allowing that cortisol 00:14:33.629 --> 00:14:36.769 and adrenaline, the amygdala part of the brain 00:14:36.769 --> 00:14:40.750 to be in the driving seat. That's great. If the 00:14:40.750 --> 00:14:42.850 saber tooth tigers jumped out of the bush and 00:14:42.850 --> 00:14:45.940 is about to attack you. But it's not good if 00:14:45.940 --> 00:14:49.159 you're dealing with a student or a parent or 00:14:49.159 --> 00:14:52.139 some other stakeholder or even with your kids. 00:14:52.179 --> 00:14:54.379 And I've got four teenagers, so I've had plenty 00:14:54.379 --> 00:14:59.700 of practice with this. And so, TJ, really, it's 00:14:59.700 --> 00:15:03.919 understanding or having a mindset rather than 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:07.559 a checklist that seek first to understand before 00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:12.690 being understood. And above all. bring curiosity 00:15:12.690 --> 00:15:15.830 in fact bring more curiosity than assumption 00:15:15.830 --> 00:15:20.950 because assumptions are like earplugs they just 00:15:20.950 --> 00:15:25.230 get in the way they enable our biases and our 00:15:25.230 --> 00:15:28.269 prejudices to get in

the way whereas if we can 00:15:28.269 --> 00:15:32.970 bring more curiosity it just uncovers a whole 00:15:32.970 --> 00:15:38.629 load of data emotion information that can then 00:15:38.629 --> 00:15:44.340 enable us to um to kind of help the situation 00:15:44.340 --> 00:15:46.600 right to help the conversation and ultimately 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:50.740 all of what i did as a negotiator and what i 00:15:50.740 --> 00:15:53.559 teach now it's ultimately about how to have better 00:15:53.559 --> 00:15:57.299 conversations you know yeah it can sound super 00:15:57.299 --> 00:15:59.659 sexy going in and negotiating with kidnappers 00:15:59.659 --> 00:16:01.440 and dropping money out of helicopters and all 00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:05.820 that stuff but in every aspect of life it's about 00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:08.179 let's just try and have better conversations 00:16:08.179 --> 00:16:13.019 um and so that's yeah that's probably a fair 00:16:13.019 --> 00:16:17.519 bit to say on that scott you talked about one 00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:20.820 of the biggest mistakes that we make about like 00:16:20.820 --> 00:16:23.659 making it about us and it's just so easy to do 00:16:23.659 --> 00:16:28.720 you know just i think we all you know just find 00:16:28.720 --> 00:16:31.500 ourselves in that space when we're hurt or we 00:16:31.500 --> 00:16:36.159 get really afraid or nervous and so on I do want 00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:40.360 to ask you, is there a myth? Like, is there a 00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:44.720 myth around negotiation that impedes people from 00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:47.980 being effective or more effective? I know there's 00:16:47.980 --> 00:16:51.139 these mistakes we make and the name blame shame 00:16:51.139 --> 00:16:53.679 that that should be right off the off everybody's 00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:56.679 tongue for now on. And I love the idea about 00:16:56.679 --> 00:16:59.240 being curious. I heard one time a dear friend 00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:02.549 say to me, Joe. Don't be furious. Just get curious. 00:17:02.870 --> 00:17:06.329 And it was sound advice. I really like it. And 00:17:06.329 --> 00:17:08.630 I needed it. I need those punchy little things 00:17:08.630 --> 00:17:11.670 to remember. But I would wonder if there's a 00:17:11.670 --> 00:17:15.309 myth around negotiation that decreases our ability 00:17:15.309 --> 00:17:19.670 to be more effective. Well, this is the million 00:17:19.670 --> 00:17:24.150 dollar question, right? I think I still come 00:17:24.150 --> 00:17:28.900 up against it where people think. negotiation 00:17:28.900 --> 00:17:33.180 is about winning okay the subtitle of my book 00:17:33.180 --> 00:17:36.460 is how to win any negotiation however and i could 00:17:36.460 --> 00:17:39.259 define what winning means uh afterwards separately 00:17:39.259 --> 00:17:44.039 i'll explain that now really briefly that winning 00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:47.339 it in from my point of view here is can i look 00:17:47.339 --> 00:17:50.059 in the mirror at the end of each day and go actually 00:17:50.059 --> 00:17:52.000 i gave my best i approached it with the right 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:54.180 mindset the right intention i did the best i 00:17:54.180 --> 00:17:57.609 could that's what winning is in that respect 00:17:57.609 --> 00:18:01.130 but other people and there's this misconception 00:18:01.130 --> 00:18:04.009 and myth that someone has to win and someone 00:18:04.009 --> 00:18:08.410 has to lose whereas what you want to aim for 00:18:08.410 --> 00:18:12.250 is that long term cooperation and collaboration 00:18:12.250 --> 00:18:15.670 rather than trying to get a bigger slice of the 00:18:15.670 --> 00:18:18.869 fixed size pie hey let's just work together to 00:18:18.869 --> 00:18:22.210 expand the size of the pie itself so we can all 00:18:22.210 --> 00:18:27.730 get bigger slices um and people another myth 00:18:27.730 --> 00:18:32.390 is well it's it's wrong to um not show weakness 00:18:32.390 --> 00:18:34.609 but it's wrong to kind of show too much of your 00:18:34.609 --> 00:18:38.970 hand whereas actually if i can if i can bring 00:18:38.970 --> 00:18:42.970 empathy to a to a negotiation to a conversation 00:18:42.970 --> 00:18:45.430 and all empathy is it's not sympathy i'm not 00:18:45.430 --> 00:18:47.730 taking on the feelings or problems of the other 00:18:47.730 --> 00:18:52.109 person i'm just taking the time to demonstrate 00:18:52.109 --> 00:18:56.529 my understanding where the other side where the 00:18:56.529 --> 00:18:59.829 counterpart where the other person is at and 00:18:59.829 --> 00:19:03.029 this is particularly powerful if we disagree 00:19:03.029 --> 00:19:08.049 if we disagree on something Joan and I go okay 00:19:08.049 --> 00:19:11.609 well it seems like this deal this issue this 00:19:11.609 --> 00:19:14.130 report whatever is really important to you and 00:19:14.130 --> 00:19:18.190 you feel like actually I'm not putting my weight 00:19:18.190 --> 00:19:21.640 here I'm not doing what's expected of me Even 00:19:21.640 --> 00:19:24.140 though I think you're completely wrong, it doesn't 00:19:24.140 --> 00:19:27.759 matter. By me taking the time to share that and 00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:31.400 actually putting myself in your position, trying 00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:35.759 to get inside your head, how do you see, playing 00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:39.099 devil's advocate here, how do you see me and 00:19:39.099 --> 00:19:43.819 my position? And the myth is, well, we've got 00:19:43.819 --> 00:19:45.859 to kind of keep those cards close to our chest. 00:19:45.980 --> 00:19:49.079 But actually, I want, they're an elephant sat 00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:51.960 in the corner of the room. I'm not going to put 00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:54.940 things in your head that aren't already there, 00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:57.940 even if it's subconsciously. So I need to drag 00:19:57.940 --> 00:20:02.880 out, present to you all of those things that 00:20:02.880 -->

00:20:05.740 you potentially might think that are going against 00:20:05.740 --> 00:20:08.279 me. Does that make sense? And by doing that, 00:20:08.339 --> 00:20:12.299 if I can get them out there first before you 00:20:12.299 --> 00:20:16.650 do. It diffuses the tension. It takes the wind 00:20:16.650 --> 00:20:18.509 out of your sails or out of the arguments that 00:20:18.509 --> 00:20:22.170 you're going to present. And you think, oh, actually, 00:20:22.210 --> 00:20:25.470 yeah, Scott gets me. He understands my position. 00:20:25.930 --> 00:20:28.029 But here's a crucial thing for everyone to take 00:20:28.029 --> 00:20:30.609 away on that point is you don't have to agree 00:20:30.609 --> 00:20:33.049 with it. And you're not saying you agree with 00:20:33.049 --> 00:20:36.569 it. You're just presenting it. It sounds like 00:20:36.569 --> 00:20:39.690 or it seems like that you feel or you seem or 00:20:39.690 --> 00:20:44.500 think this. And so that's the. That's some of 00:20:44.500 --> 00:20:48.200 the myths and ways to overcome them in my experience. 00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:52.819 I like that you brought up winning because I 00:20:52.819 --> 00:20:56.420 think in the communication, in the negotiation, 00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:00.839 whether it's an IEP meeting that we're in or 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:03.279 a heated parent argument, you know, I'm thinking 00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:06.490 about school leaders. I think a lot of times 00:21:06.490 --> 00:21:09.730 we're trying to get our way or position it so 00:21:09.730 --> 00:21:12.710 that the school wins or the leader wins. I'm 00:21:12.710 --> 00:21:15.829 also thinking about the visibility of a leader 00:21:15.829 --> 00:21:20.150 when there's tension in the room and kind of 00:21:20.150 --> 00:21:25.170 like the desire to ensure that you're still in 00:21:25.170 --> 00:21:29.759 the upper have the upper hand in the argument. 00:21:29.900 --> 00:21:32.680 And I couldn't help but to think about humility 00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:37.740 when you were presenting that scenario. Can you 00:21:37.740 --> 00:21:41.259 comment on that for leaders so that they can 00:21:41.259 --> 00:21:45.099 play that long game versus trying to win in the 00:21:45.099 --> 00:21:50.420 moment? Because I think there's a mentality there 00:21:50.420 --> 00:21:53.819 around what winning actually means when the tensions 00:21:53.819 --> 00:21:57.369 are high. yes a really good point particularly 00:21:57.369 --> 00:22:00.509 if you hold a position of authority you've got 00:22:00.509 --> 00:22:03.029 the role or the rank or the title and people 00:22:03.029 --> 00:22:07.329 are looking to you and you know because you know 00:22:07.329 --> 00:22:08.970 let's just let's just deal with that right away 00:22:08.970 --> 00:22:11.650 is that we don't negotiate money we don't negotiate 00:22:11.650 --> 00:22:17.720 timelines we negotiate identity and status On 00:22:17.720 --> 00:22:19.359 that point, and particularly if you're in

a position 00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:21.599 of authority, there will be an identity that 00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:24.460 is attached to that. How you and others see you 00:22:24.460 --> 00:22:27.619 and perceive you in the world. And whenever that 00:22:27.619 --> 00:22:30.859 is threatened, that could be by somebody trying 00:22:30.859 --> 00:22:34.640 to usurp your authority, answer back, be belligerent, 00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:39.920 whoever that may be. As a human being at your 00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:43.299 very core, even if it is subconscious, that is 00:22:43.299 --> 00:22:45.500 an attack on your very fiber of who you are in 00:22:45.500 --> 00:22:50.359 this world. and and we only ever say yes and 00:22:50.359 --> 00:22:53.779 agree to something can mean it long term if it 00:22:53.779 --> 00:22:57.619 will increase or at least maintain our status 00:22:57.619 --> 00:23:00.779 as how we and others see us or perceive us to 00:23:00.779 --> 00:23:04.259 be so the first thing is from our own perspective 00:23:04.259 --> 00:23:07.279 we need to be able to manage our own state our 00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:10.779 own emotions first which is why the number one 00:23:10.779 --> 00:23:13.680 skill of all the world's best negotiators is 00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:17.319 emotional self -regulation Can you stay grounded? 00:23:17.339 --> 00:23:20.819 Can you tap into your red center? Can you feel 00:23:20.819 --> 00:23:25.079 your feet flat on the floor, staying on the riverbank 00:23:25.079 --> 00:23:28.099 rather than going for a swim? Can you actually 00:23:28.099 --> 00:23:33.799 develop sensory acuity of what is going on in 00:23:33.799 --> 00:23:36.059 the room, in the meeting, on the call, in the 00:23:36.059 --> 00:23:39.640 session, in the classroom, wherever it is? Can 00:23:39.640 --> 00:23:44.819 you adapt your own or regulate your own nervous 00:23:44.819 --> 00:23:48.160 system and be aware of how you're coming across 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:52.579 is it landing and at the same time tune in and 00:23:52.579 --> 00:23:55.680 try and validate and empathize with a person 00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:58.579 who's actually just trying to shout at you and 00:23:58.579 --> 00:24:00.380 so there's lots of things to consider there but 00:24:00.380 --> 00:24:02.720 most of us are going to be doing this anyway 00:24:04.269 --> 00:24:06.549 The point of me raising it is that we just need 00:24:06.549 --> 00:24:09.630 to be conscious of it and develop it and practice 00:24:09.630 --> 00:24:12.690 it and refine it. So it becomes in the moment, 00:24:12.829 --> 00:24:15.349 you almost, it sounds a bit weird, but we almost 00:24:15.349 --> 00:24:17.509 have like an out of bodily experience. You become 00:24:17.509 --> 00:24:19.930 aware of what you're doing as opposed to being 00:24:19.930 --> 00:24:22.789 in it. Does that make sense? And so, which is 00:24:22.789 --> 00:24:25.670 why I use a riverbank analogy. You know, you've 00:24:25.670 --> 00:24:28.990 cracked it when you can go, hey, this person 00:24:28.990 --> 00:24:32.740 could say or do anything right now. And if you 00:24:32.740 --> 00:24:34.579 measure my heartbeat, it's going to stay the 00:24:34.579 --> 00:24:38.420 same because you manage to take that slight step 00:24:38.420 --> 00:24:41.440 back and you just find yourself in a split second 00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:45.779 so you can observe but not absorb. And then you 00:24:45.779 --> 00:24:49.079 can choose how you're going to respond rather 00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:51.180 than react. And there's a difference that you 00:24:51.180 --> 00:24:54.119 want to respond deliberately with intention rather 00:24:54.119 --> 00:24:57.339 than react emotionally. And please, it's simple 00:24:57.339 --> 00:25:01.109 but not easy. I get that it takes. Tons of practice. 00:25:01.269 --> 00:25:04.509 However, life gives us plenty of opportunity 00:25:04.509 --> 00:25:07.789 to practice every single day on the easy stuff. 00:25:08.049 --> 00:25:10.710 So when that big moment does come, when that 00:25:10.710 --> 00:25:14.990 real challenging conversation happens, the neural 00:25:14.990 --> 00:25:17.549 pathways have been created, the neuroplasticity 00:25:17.549 --> 00:25:21.849 has taken place. And we're a bit stronger to 00:25:21.849 --> 00:25:26.069 have those difficult conversations without allowing 00:25:26.069 --> 00:25:31.460 ourselves to be dysregulated. Scott, I appreciate 00:25:31.460 --> 00:25:37.440 you saying that this takes time. I still, even 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:40.420 as a superintendent of seven years and an educator 00:25:40.420 --> 00:25:43.900 for 30, most of it being in some type of leadership 00:25:43.900 --> 00:25:47.339 position, at least 27 years within, there are 00:25:47.339 --> 00:25:50.200 times where there's sweaty palms, heart races. 00:25:50.299 --> 00:25:55.400 And, you know, so this is a skill to truly develop. 00:25:55.559 --> 00:25:58.380 And I appreciate you saying too, that life is 00:25:58.380 --> 00:26:03.430 our lab. Like start using this tomorrow. But 00:26:03.430 --> 00:26:06.190 with that, I do want to ask you, there are individuals 00:26:06.190 --> 00:26:09.549 that are on this call right now, listening to 00:26:09.549 --> 00:26:11.809 this podcast, they probably have a tough meeting 00:26:11.809 --> 00:26:15.430 tomorrow. What is one of the most underrated 00:26:15.430 --> 00:26:21.609 negotiation skills? Most people, here's another 00:26:21.609 --> 00:26:25.190 myth for you. Most people think the best negotiators 00:26:25.190 --> 00:26:29.140 are the best talkers. but they're not. They're 00:26:29.140 --> 00:26:33.920 the best listeners. And if there's one tool, 00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:38.380 technique, hack, I would encourage anybody who's 00:26:38.380 --> 00:26:42.099 listening or watching this is to develop what 00:26:42.099 --> 00:26:47.099 I call level five listening. Because all of us, 00:26:47.099 --> 00:26:50.319 myself included, often think we're better

listeners 00:26:50.319 --> 00:26:53.920 than what we actually are. And you've got levels 00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:57.079 one and two. Which you're just listening for 00:26:57.079 --> 00:27:01.039 the gist or you're just listening, waiting to 00:27:01.039 --> 00:27:04.460 rebut them around actually where they're wrong 00:27:04.460 --> 00:27:06.279 and you're right. And you maybe don't even let 00:27:06.279 --> 00:27:08.180 them finish. You talk over them or you're just, 00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:10.259 you're listening, you're in a meeting, but you're 00:27:10.259 --> 00:27:12.079 thinking about the Amazon delivery or what's 00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:15.019 for lunch and all that kind of stuff. Excuse 00:27:15.019 --> 00:27:17.559 me, but we want to get down to those levels four, 00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:20.799 level five. Because levels one, two and three, 00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:24.000 it's all, we're focusing on ourselves. So what 00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:28.119 about me, myself and I again, we want to tap 00:27:28.119 --> 00:27:32.579 into level four is emotion. You know, we want 00:27:32.579 --> 00:27:36.980 to listen to what's driving this person. What's 00:27:36.980 --> 00:27:41.059 the real emotion? What's the emotion behind this? 00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:44.220 Because if we can identify what that is, we can 00:27:44.220 --> 00:27:46.380 kind of name it. Because if we ever say name 00:27:46.380 --> 00:27:49.559 it to tame it, particularly if the person's dysregulated 00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:53.220 in a difficult conversation. If you can kind 00:27:53.220 --> 00:27:55.339 of understand, okay, well, they're saying this, 00:27:55.480 --> 00:27:57.160 but why are they saying it? So it's not so much 00:27:57.160 --> 00:28:01.000 the what, it's the why underneath. And then level 00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:03.519 five is going even deeper, and that's listening 00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:06.680 for point of view. Listening for point of view, 00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:10.900 beliefs, rules, values. How does this person 00:28:10.900 --> 00:28:13.500 interpret the world? You may be thinking, well, 00:28:13.500 --> 00:28:16.440 blimey, Scott, that's quite a lot to take on. 00:28:16.519 --> 00:28:19.720 And listening at this level. you're not going 00:28:19.720 --> 00:28:21.480 to do it when you have a conversation about what's 00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:24.220 for dinner but in those difficult conversations 00:28:24.220 --> 00:28:26.900 in the workplace or the home that's when you're 00:28:26.900 --> 00:28:30.720 going to tap into that level four and five and 00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:35.480 if you listen where you seek first to understand 00:28:35.480 --> 00:28:37.680 before being understood realize it's not about 00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:40.380 you you'll get your chance in a bit you need 00:28:40.380 --> 00:28:43.299 to demonstrate the empathy but if you can listen 00:28:43.299 --> 00:28:46.220 to that point of view and emotion people will 00:28:46.220 --> 00:28:50.750 tell you their pain points their issues their 00:28:50.750 --> 00:28:54.349 challenges what is really not the surface presenting 00:28:54.349 --> 00:28:57.569 issue but what's the real issue and they'll give 00:28:57.569 --> 00:29:01.289 you or they'll indicate what is a bridge a way 00:29:01.289 --> 00:29:04.069 out from them from where they are to a better 00:29:04.069 --> 00:29:07.430 place but if you're going in there with a win 00:29:07.430 --> 00:29:12.670 -lose problem solving uh too soon it's all about 00:29:12.670 --> 00:29:16.890 me you're gonna miss that And it's a skill that 00:29:16.890 --> 00:29:19.950 all of us, all 8 billion of us can do better 00:29:19.950 --> 00:29:21.869 at practicing because correct me if I'm wrong, 00:29:22.049 --> 00:29:25.410 no one's listened their way out of a job or listened 00:29:25.410 --> 00:29:28.490 their way out of a relationship before. And so 00:29:28.490 --> 00:29:32.849 that's the key thing. People should really take 00:29:32.849 --> 00:29:34.789 away from this and practice it for their meetings 00:29:34.789 --> 00:29:38.769 today and every other day. Listening, level five 00:29:38.769 --> 00:29:44.220 listening. seeking first to understand it seems 00:29:44.220 --> 00:29:46.640 like like you said it before it seems simple 00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:50.299 but it's it's so hard to do and i think one of 00:29:50.299 --> 00:29:53.799 the reasons for that is that and i'm talking 00:29:53.799 --> 00:29:55.700 to the leaders who are listening right now we 00:29:55.700 --> 00:29:59.539 tend to plan plan plan plan plan plan the meeting 00:29:59.539 --> 00:30:02.599 plan the day and one of the things that you suggest 00:30:02.599 --> 00:30:05.359 is that clarity of purpose is more important 00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:09.750 than clarity of planning can you can you double 00:30:09.750 --> 00:30:11.569 click on that and tell us what you mean by it 00:30:11.569 --> 00:30:17.470 yeah i mean hey under pressure you rise or fall 00:30:17.470 --> 00:30:19.309 to the level of your preparation and training 00:30:19.309 --> 00:30:22.569 so don't get me wrong preparing is key i'm a 00:30:22.569 --> 00:30:25.970 big planner i like my processes and i know what 00:30:25.970 --> 00:30:30.730 my outcome is going to be um but i i think we 00:30:30.730 --> 00:30:36.009 can prepare too much at times we can plan too 00:30:36.009 --> 00:30:40.680 much because if if If I would go previously go 00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:45.140 to negotiation, then all my preparation and all 00:30:45.140 --> 00:30:47.740 my planning, and I think I've cracked it. I kind 00:30:47.740 --> 00:30:50.259 of know what the problem is to be solved here. 00:30:50.500 --> 00:30:53.960 I know all about this person that I need to influence 00:30:53.960 --> 00:30:55.839 and persuade. What's that going to do? Is that 00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:57.579 going to make me, is that going to encourage 00:30:57.579 --> 00:31:01.339 me to listen more, bring more curiosity? Or actually,

00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:03.180 is it going to make me just make a load of assumptions 00:31:03.180 --> 00:31:07.569 and listen less? And so we need to get the Goldilocks, 00:31:07.670 --> 00:31:11.089 the sweet spot of preparation where we do just 00:31:11.089 --> 00:31:14.069 enough to know what are the better questions 00:31:14.069 --> 00:31:19.329 to ask, when to speak, when to listen. And that 00:31:19.329 --> 00:31:22.750 doesn't matter. It's the same principle, no matter 00:31:22.750 --> 00:31:24.910 what the situation or circumstances or conversation 00:31:24.910 --> 00:31:31.450 you're going to have, really. Well, Scott, this 00:31:31.450 --> 00:31:34.259 has been. A fantastic conversation. Joe, did 00:31:34.259 --> 00:31:35.839 you have one more question you wanted to ask? 00:31:35.839 --> 00:31:38.000 I mean, I have 10 more questions. I was going 00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:39.740 to say, we're going to have to do a round two 00:31:39.740 --> 00:31:44.059 because I've wanted to jump in 30 different times. 00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:46.680 The only thing I'll ask, and we can wrap up with 00:31:46.680 --> 00:31:49.319 this, and this is a fan favorite because Scott, 00:31:49.420 --> 00:31:53.559 you know, obviously we didn't even get into like 00:31:53.559 --> 00:31:57.559 what you've experienced a lot of like. the negotiations, 00:31:57.579 --> 00:32:00.900 the intensity, like, which is fascinating. And 00:32:00.900 --> 00:32:03.420 when TJ and I were prepping for this, we said, 00:32:03.460 --> 00:32:06.539 let's keep this very skill oriented and transferable. 00:32:06.680 --> 00:32:09.900 And so we tried to land on that tonight. I am 00:32:09.900 --> 00:32:14.420 very curious though, is there a daily habit that 00:32:14.420 --> 00:32:16.880 you do? And this is something that I feel like 00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:20.240 our listeners love to hear that keeps you sharp, 00:32:20.279 --> 00:32:23.319 helps you grow. Something that you know, you 00:32:23.319 --> 00:32:27.000 have religiously put a... has been a big part 00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:31.539 of your life to grow. Yeah. People want to write 00:32:31.539 --> 00:32:36.640 down three letters, P R C. And the first one 00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:43.059 is pause. Second one is reflect and the C's choose. 00:32:43.380 --> 00:32:45.740 And what I mean by pause, reflect and choose 00:32:45.740 --> 00:32:50.619 is maybe three times a day, depending on what 00:32:50.619 --> 00:32:52.259 I've got going on. Maybe it's five times a day. 00:32:52.299 --> 00:32:54.960 Maybe it's just once a day. but i will set an 00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:59.000 alarm on my phone and i'll just pause when that 00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:03.799 goes off and i'll just sit there for 30 seconds 00:33:03.799 --> 00:33:08.220 no more maybe 20 seconds and i'll just reflect 00:33:08.220 --> 00:33:10.220 but it's more than reflecting it's just kind 00:33:10.220 --> 00:33:14.220 of tuning into okay what's going on for me right 00:33:14.220 --> 00:33:18.019 now i'll put my feet flat on the floor so i can 00:33:18.019 --> 00:33:20.420 kind of be grounded take a couple of deep breaths 00:33:20.420 --> 00:33:24.880 and i go do you know what When I'm about to go 00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:26.940 into a call with this person, every time I'm 00:33:26.940 --> 00:33:29.660 about to go on a call with this person, I get 00:33:29.660 --> 00:33:32.619 that kind of tension in my shoulders. Why is 00:33:32.619 --> 00:33:34.859 that? Why do I feel that? And maybe you get a 00:33:34.859 --> 00:33:36.759 bit curious and you ask questions why that is. 00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:40.940 So I pause. I'll just stop and reflect and just 00:33:40.940 --> 00:33:44.200 tune in for maybe 30 seconds. And then from that 00:33:44.200 --> 00:33:47.519 point, I'll then choose my next steps, my next 00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:51.240 action from that ground in place. And what that 00:33:51.240 --> 00:33:53.599 does is, it's a bit like when you plug your mobile 00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:56.539 phone in, you plug your cell phone in. It's just 00:33:56.539 --> 00:33:58.880 doing that several times a day to get like a 00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:02.140 little boost. It just takes you back. Imagine 00:34:02.140 --> 00:34:05.279 a hamster on a wheel. It's like the hamster being 00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:07.880 taken off the wheel. You can catch a little breath. 00:34:08.360 --> 00:34:12.760 You can kind of get a bit of clarity on where 00:34:12.760 --> 00:34:15.179 you're at and what's coming. And then you can 00:34:15.179 --> 00:34:16.699 make a better decision you can carry on with 00:34:16.699 --> 00:34:19.460 your day. But that's it. It's a trainable skill. 00:34:20.269 --> 00:34:23.349 It's muscle memory. And the more you can do that, 00:34:23.449 --> 00:34:27.429 particularly when the stakes are low and everything's 00:34:27.429 --> 00:34:31.150 easy, the easy becomes when you're certainly 00:34:31.150 --> 00:34:34.349 facing a challenge. So PRC, pause, reflect and 00:34:34.349 --> 00:34:38.389 choose. PRC, it's great strategy. I like the 00:34:38.389 --> 00:34:40.289 hamster on the wheel part of that too, because 00:34:40.289 --> 00:34:43.469 I think sometimes when we feel like a hamster 00:34:43.469 --> 00:34:46.250 on a wheel, when we feel that feeling is the 00:34:46.250 --> 00:34:48.650 exact moment when we need to start to practice 00:34:48.650 --> 00:34:52.349 that. And especially when it's just about the 00:34:52.349 --> 00:34:54.849 day and the urgency of the day and nothing that's 00:34:54.849 --> 00:34:57.630 actually super important, but just the speed 00:34:57.630 --> 00:35:00.289 of the way things are going to then use that 00:35:00.289 --> 00:35:02.869 strategy. And if I just add one thing, TJ, sorry, 00:35:02.949 --> 00:35:04.909 just if I add one thing to that, sorry to speak 00:35:04.909 --> 00:35:08.250 over you there. is you know i'm sure everybody 00:35:08.250 --> 00:35:10.550 listened to this they have back -to -back

meetings 00:35:10.550 --> 00:35:15.130 calls or in person and the thing that really 00:35:15.130 --> 00:35:17.750 made a difference for me when i left the negotiation 00:35:17.750 --> 00:35:22.309 world went into business as well was when i finished 00:35:22.309 --> 00:35:25.550 one call or meeting i literally do that like 00:35:25.550 --> 00:35:29.110 a version of the prc where i will mindfully transition 00:35:29.110 --> 00:35:32.900 transfer from the one call or meeting to the 00:35:32.900 --> 00:35:36.960 next, rather than being almost on autopilot and 00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:38.880 going from one to the other, where your brain 00:35:38.880 --> 00:35:42.159 doesn't have the chance to just pause for a second. 00:35:42.300 --> 00:35:46.079 And it doesn't matter how busy you are. You could 00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:48.679 be the busiest person in education. You'll have 00:35:48.679 --> 00:35:52.679 10 seconds. You'll have five seconds. But that's 00:35:52.679 --> 00:35:54.340 what we want. We had a saying in the negotiation 00:35:54.340 --> 00:35:57.519 world, we just want to buy time. Because the 00:35:57.519 --> 00:35:59.860 more time we can buy in, if it's just one second. 00:36:00.539 --> 00:36:03.380 allows us to get ahead of the business of life 00:36:03.380 --> 00:36:06.320 and then we turn it more regulated then we can 00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:09.820 make better decisions from that place and hey 00:36:09.820 --> 00:36:12.840 surely that's better for everybody right that's 00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:16.099 so good and such a fantastic strategy for leaders 00:36:16.099 --> 00:36:19.789 and i've got Tons of notes and at least 10 more 00:36:19.789 --> 00:36:22.730 questions to ask, but we're going to close it 00:36:22.730 --> 00:36:26.489 out there. It's been great, Scott. Is there anything 00:36:26.489 --> 00:36:28.949 that you would like to add today for the listeners? 00:36:28.969 --> 00:36:31.489 Anything we didn't ask, a call to action, final 00:36:31.489 --> 00:36:36.610 words? Seek out the worthy opponents. And what 00:36:36.610 --> 00:36:39.050 I mean by that, as people, you know the people, 00:36:39.150 --> 00:36:41.530 we've all got them in our lives where we'd rather 00:36:41.530 --> 00:36:44.309 avoid them. They know which buttons to press. 00:36:46.199 --> 00:36:49.599 Yeah, just turn it with a good intention and 00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:52.599 really work hard at, you know, kind of practicing 00:36:52.599 --> 00:36:56.280 this stuff. Learn to listen level five, more 00:36:56.280 --> 00:37:01.420 curiosity, and watch the magic happen. Yeah, 00:37:01.539 --> 00:37:04.679 seek out the worthy opponents. Yep, that's how 00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:08.179 we practice. Thank you so much. You heard it 00:37:08.179 --> 00:37:11.539 again on Focus Ed. Scott Walker, everyone, how 00:37:11.539 --> 00:37:13.699 about a virtual and live round of applause from 00:37:13.699 --> 00:37:17.579 our audience? Don't forget to follow theschoolhouse302 00:37:17.579 --> 00:37:20.340 .com for podcasts, blog posts, books to read, 00:37:20.380 --> 00:37:23.179 and more. We'll be back soon with another episode 00:37:23.179 --> 00:37:26.599 of Focus Ed. Until then, stay focused. Thank 00:37:26.599 --> 00:37:31.360 you, Scott. Thanks so much for your time. TJ, 00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:34.300 one thing we've seen again and again is that 00:37:34.300 --> 00:37:36.739 great instructional leadership doesn't happen 00:37:36.739 --> 00:37:40.079 by accident. It's built on consistent, aligned 00:37:40.079 --> 00:37:44.079 coaching practices. That's right, Joe. And when 00:37:44.079 --> 00:37:46.039 I was a deputy superintendent, I knew we needed 00:37:46.039 --> 00:37:48.500 a way to scale high -quality coaching without 00:37:48.500 --> 00:37:50.840 losing that personal, real -time element that 00:37:50.840 --> 00:37:53.780 makes it so effective. So that's when you brought 00:37:53.780 --> 00:37:57.789 in Bullseye? 100%. Bullseye gave us the visibility 00:37:57.789 --> 00:38:00.190 that we were missing. I could see the actual 00:38:00.190 --> 00:38:02.369 feedback that principals were giving to teachers 00:38:02.369 --> 00:38:04.969 and use it to support their growth as instructional 00:38:04.969 --> 00:38:07.989 leaders. It made coaching the coaches part of 00:38:07.989 --> 00:38:10.289 our daily leadership work, not something extra. 00:38:11.170 --> 00:38:15.030 And Bullseye wasn't some off -the -shelf product 00:38:15.030 --> 00:38:18.190 that boxed you into something else's model? No 00:38:18.190 --> 00:38:21.550 way, dude. You know I don't go for that. Bullseye 00:38:21.550 --> 00:38:24.289 is flexible. They worked alongside us to customize 00:38:24.289 --> 00:38:27.030 a platform around our leadership framework. And 00:38:27.030 --> 00:38:29.849 as our goals evolved, Bullseye evolved with us. 00:38:29.989 --> 00:38:33.329 We never had to fit into their system. The Bullseye 00:38:33.329 --> 00:38:37.769 system fit into ours. Wow, that's powerful. A 00:38:37.769 --> 00:38:40.230 platform that actually grows with you and supports 00:38:40.230 --> 00:38:43.980 the way you lead. customization like you can't 00:38:43.980 --> 00:38:46.659 believe and that's why we're proud at the schoolhouse 00:38:46.659 --> 00:38:49.659 302 to partner with bullseye if you're looking 00:38:49.659 --> 00:38:52.559 to bring clarity to your coaching and turn feedback 00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:55.340 into real growth bullseye is the right tool for 00:38:55.340 --> 00:38:58.639 you you can head to bullseye .education slash 00:38:58.639 --> 00:39:03.860 302 that's bullseye .education slash 302 and 00:39:03.860 --> 00:39:06.280 sign up for bullseye sponsored lunch and learn 00:39:06.280 --> 00:39:10.320 then they're gonna Bring lunch to your instructional 00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:13.340 leadership team on them and show you how the 00:39:13.340 --> 00:39:18.179 platform works. Again, that's bullseye .education 00:39:18.179 --> 00:39:21.539 slash 302. Sign up today. I would.